FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > There are only two genders
There are only two genders
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"I strongly disagree. Why ? Because there are only 2 sexes. They are determined biologically ....... Gender is something else entirely. " This Granny beat me to it | |||
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"Yep..agree" With me or vine ? | |||
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Gender is a social construct.
But when it comes down to biological sex, it's still not quite as binary as that. Yes, the vast majority will fall into one primary category or the other, but there are still exceptions | |||
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"Yep..agree With me or vine ?" I haven’t said my position. Merely posted a claim for people to state how strongly they agree or disagree | |||
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"Say whether you Agree strongly, Agree, Agree slightly, Are Neutral, Disagree slightly, Disagree, or Disagree strongly with the claim in the title. Give reasons for your opinion." lol | |||
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In my eyes gender and sex are the same 
Male female 
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"Yep..agree With me or vine ? I haven’t said my position. Merely posted a claim for people to state how strongly they agree or disagree " Okay Mr. Precision ...... I meant ..... are you answering me or Vines original question ....... | |||
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"Yep..agree With me or vine ? I haven’t said my position. Merely posted a claim for people to state how strongly they agree or disagree Okay Mr. Precision ...... I meant ..... are you answering me or Vines original question ....... " I’m now thinking of updating my username!  | |||
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"I don't care what people identify as at all. I just wish that we could find the right pronoun to describe someone who is non-binary. The plural 'they/them' is fucking ridiculous. We need to make one up." People objected to zie and such in the 00s. And they/their in that sense has existed since Shakespeare - who is usually used as a benchmark for what's acceptable. | |||
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"I don't care what people identify as at all. I just wish that we could find the right pronoun to describe someone who is non-binary. The plural 'they/them' is fucking ridiculous. We need to make one up." Why is it wrong? “Does anyone know whose coat this is?” “Yeah it’s theirs” Seems to work perfectly for someone whose gender you don’t know | |||
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"Yep..agree With me or vine ? I haven’t said my position. Merely posted a claim for people to state how strongly they agree or disagree Okay Mr. Precision ...... I meant ..... are you answering me or Vines original question ....... I’m now thinking of updating my username! "any particular reason? | |||
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"Couldn't care less how many there could be/are. It's the humans who identify as a tree make me "my dogs barking again and shes just had a pee | |||
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"I strongly disagree. Why ? Because there are only 2 sexes. They are determined biologically ....... Gender is something else entirely. " Agree 100% strongly etc | |||
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"Gender is a social construct. What society deems to be female? I'm not sure I'm those things..." I mean, I am a woman, but I don't think I embody feminine characteristics, like nurturing and shit. | |||
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"I agree that there's a lot of google-ing going on in this thread" We're educating ourselves with Google. A wonderfully large research library
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"I agree that there's a lot of google-ing going on in this thread" “Gender is traditionally understood as a binary concept, but contemporary perspectives recognize a spectrum encompassing a range of identities beyond just male and female.” Chat gpt is a good tool | |||
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"Say whether you Agree strongly, Agree, Agree slightly, Are Neutral, Disagree slightly, Disagree, or Disagree strongly with the claim in the title. Give reasons for your opinion." There are two genders, and lots of points in between. | |||
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"Agree strongly Of course there are only two genders anything else is a lifestyle choice. Im yet to see a man have a period or pop out a baby. On the flip side ive never seen a woman with a cock shoot a load
Mr"This. I also strongly agree and I was about to say the same, that anything else is a life style choice too | |||
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"I strongly disagree. Why ? Because there are only 2 sexes. They are determined biologically ....... Gender is something else entirely. " What I came here to say. | |||
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"I don't care what people identify as at all. I just wish that we could find the right pronoun to describe someone who is non-binary. The plural 'they/them' is fucking ridiculous. We need to make one up. Why is it wrong? “Does anyone know whose coat this is?” “Yeah it’s theirs” Seems to work perfectly for someone whose gender you don’t know " Exactly. "I gave some money to them." or "They called me last night." Doesn't automatically refer to more than one person. What someone chooses to use as their pronouns is their decision, not anyone else's. If you disagree with their choice that's a 'you' problem, not a 'them' problem.  | |||
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"I don't care what people identify as at all. I just wish that we could find the right pronoun to describe someone who is non-binary. The plural 'they/them' is fucking ridiculous. We need to make one up. Why is it wrong? “Does anyone know whose coat this is?” “Yeah it’s theirs” Seems to work perfectly for someone whose gender you don’t know " Get your point and you're right in regard as to referring to them in the third person as above. It fits. I guess it is weird when they are reported on in the media and Sam Smith for example is referred to in the plural. I never knew Swing's comment about 'Zie', but that's kind of what I expected the pronoun to be adapted to. But if it got rejected and nothing's changed then I guess I won't lose any further sleep! | |||
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" If you disagree with their choice that's a 'you' problem, not a 'them' problem. "I like what they did there | |||
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"I strongly disagree. Why ? Because there are only 2 sexes. They are determined biologically ....... Gender is something else entirely. " | |||
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"I strongly disagree. Why ? Because there are only 2 sexes. They are determined biologically ....... Gender is something else entirely. " I'm with Granny. | |||
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"I don't care what people identify as at all. I just wish that we could find the right pronoun to describe someone who is non-binary. The plural 'they/them' is fucking ridiculous. We need to make one up. Why is it wrong? “Does anyone know whose coat this is?” “Yeah it’s theirs” Seems to work perfectly for someone whose gender you don’t know Get your point and you're right in regard as to referring to them in the third person as above. It fits. I guess it is weird when they are reported on in the media and Sam Smith for example is referred to in the plural. I never knew Swing's comment about 'Zie', but that's kind of what I expected the pronoun to be adapted to. But if it got rejected and nothing's changed then I guess I won't lose any further sleep! " It’s only plural because you keep telling yourself it is “They” isn’t a plural. It’s always used for a plural, but that doesn’t always make it a plural “Has sam smith released a new song” “They have yes” It’s absolutely suitable as singular use | |||
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"I don't care what people identify as at all. I just wish that we could find the right pronoun to describe someone who is non-binary. The plural 'they/them' is fucking ridiculous. We need to make one up. Why is it wrong? “Does anyone know whose coat this is?” “Yeah it’s theirs” Seems to work perfectly for someone whose gender you don’t know Get your point and you're right in regard as to referring to them in the third person as above. It fits. I guess it is weird when they are reported on in the media and Sam Smith for example is referred to in the plural. I never knew Swing's comment about 'Zie', but that's kind of what I expected the pronoun to be adapted to. But if it got rejected and nothing's changed then I guess I won't lose any further sleep! It’s only plural because you keep telling yourself it is “They” isn’t a plural. It’s always used for a plural, but that doesn’t always make it a plural “Has sam smith released a new song” “They have yes” It’s absolutely suitable as singular use " I don’t get how people struggle with this. “Did you pick up the cake for Jays birthday?” ”Yeah, I got strawberry because it’s their favourite!” | |||
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"I don't care what people identify as at all. I just wish that we could find the right pronoun to describe someone who is non-binary. The plural 'they/them' is fucking ridiculous. We need to make one up. Why is it wrong? “Does anyone know whose coat this is?” “Yeah it’s theirs” Seems to work perfectly for someone whose gender you don’t know Get your point and you're right in regard as to referring to them in the third person as above. It fits. I guess it is weird when they are reported on in the media and Sam Smith for example is referred to in the plural. I never knew Swing's comment about 'Zie', but that's kind of what I expected the pronoun to be adapted to. But if it got rejected and nothing's changed then I guess I won't lose any further sleep! " Another way you could look at it is, the word "you" derives from the plural form of the word, and the singular form was dropped (and most of the other forms from old, middle, and early modern English have gone, too). If I can use "you" to refer to one person, why can't I use "they" to refer to more than one person? Particularly when you consider that Shakespeare still used the older forms of you - "shall I compare thee to a summer's day?" | |||
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"I don't care what people identify as at all. I just wish that we could find the right pronoun to describe someone who is non-binary. The plural 'they/them' is fucking ridiculous. We need to make one up. Why is it wrong? “Does anyone know whose coat this is?” “Yeah it’s theirs” Seems to work perfectly for someone whose gender you don’t know Get your point and you're right in regard as to referring to them in the third person as above. It fits. I guess it is weird when they are reported on in the media and Sam Smith for example is referred to in the plural. I never knew Swing's comment about 'Zie', but that's kind of what I expected the pronoun to be adapted to. But if it got rejected and nothing's changed then I guess I won't lose any further sleep! It’s only plural because you keep telling yourself it is “They” isn’t a plural. It’s always used for a plural, but that doesn’t always make it a plural “Has sam smith released a new song” “They have yes” It’s absolutely suitable as singular use I don’t get how people struggle with this. “Did you pick up the cake for Jays birthday?” ”Yeah, I got strawberry because it’s their favourite!”" Sam Smith released his 53rd album last week. When asked how he thought it would be received they said "Amazeballs" Doesn't fit. Not to me. Maybe I need to retrain my brain to accept it | |||
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"I don't care what people identify as at all. I just wish that we could find the right pronoun to describe someone who is non-binary. The plural 'they/them' is fucking ridiculous. We need to make one up. Why is it wrong? “Does anyone know whose coat this is?” “Yeah it’s theirs” Seems to work perfectly for someone whose gender you don’t know Get your point and you're right in regard as to referring to them in the third person as above. It fits. I guess it is weird when they are reported on in the media and Sam Smith for example is referred to in the plural. I never knew Swing's comment about 'Zie', but that's kind of what I expected the pronoun to be adapted to. But if it got rejected and nothing's changed then I guess I won't lose any further sleep! It’s only plural because you keep telling yourself it is “They” isn’t a plural. It’s always used for a plural, but that doesn’t always make it a plural “Has sam smith released a new song” “They have yes” It’s absolutely suitable as singular use I don’t get how people struggle with this. “Did you pick up the cake for Jays birthday?” ”Yeah, I got strawberry because it’s their favourite!” Sam Smith released his 53rd album last week. When asked how he thought it would be received they said "Amazeballs" Doesn't fit. Not to me. Maybe I need to retrain my brain to accept it " Oops delete 'he'. Non intentional! I promise | |||
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"I don't care what people identify as at all. I just wish that we could find the right pronoun to describe someone who is non-binary. The plural 'they/them' is fucking ridiculous. We need to make one up. Why is it wrong? “Does anyone know whose coat this is?” “Yeah it’s theirs” Seems to work perfectly for someone whose gender you don’t know Get your point and you're right in regard as to referring to them in the third person as above. It fits. I guess it is weird when they are reported on in the media and Sam Smith for example is referred to in the plural. I never knew Swing's comment about 'Zie', but that's kind of what I expected the pronoun to be adapted to. But if it got rejected and nothing's changed then I guess I won't lose any further sleep! It’s only plural because you keep telling yourself it is “They” isn’t a plural. It’s always used for a plural, but that doesn’t always make it a plural “Has sam smith released a new song” “They have yes” It’s absolutely suitable as singular use I don’t get how people struggle with this. “Did you pick up the cake for Jays birthday?” ”Yeah, I got strawberry because it’s their favourite!” Sam Smith released his 53rd album last week. When asked how he thought it would be received they said "Amazeballs" Doesn't fit. Not to me. Maybe I need to retrain my brain to accept it " Pretty much, yeah. We use it so rarely for singular because most of the time when we are talking about them, we know their gender That sentence looks completely normal to me but I had to get used to using it | |||
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"I don't care what people identify as at all. I just wish that we could find the right pronoun to describe someone who is non-binary. The plural 'they/them' is fucking ridiculous. We need to make one up. Why is it wrong? “Does anyone know whose coat this is?” “Yeah it’s theirs” Seems to work perfectly for someone whose gender you don’t know Get your point and you're right in regard as to referring to them in the third person as above. It fits. I guess it is weird when they are reported on in the media and Sam Smith for example is referred to in the plural. I never knew Swing's comment about 'Zie', but that's kind of what I expected the pronoun to be adapted to. But if it got rejected and nothing's changed then I guess I won't lose any further sleep! It’s only plural because you keep telling yourself it is “They” isn’t a plural. It’s always used for a plural, but that doesn’t always make it a plural “Has sam smith released a new song” “They have yes” It’s absolutely suitable as singular use I don’t get how people struggle with this. “Did you pick up the cake for Jays birthday?” ”Yeah, I got strawberry because it’s their favourite!” Sam Smith released his 53rd album last week. When asked how he thought it would be received they said "Amazeballs" Doesn't fit. Not to me. Maybe I need to retrain my brain to accept it Pretty much, yeah. We use it so rarely for singular because most of the time when we are talking about them, we know their gender That sentence looks completely normal to me but I had to get used to using it " Yeah. Not quite the same, but I'm trying to make myself lose the subjunctive, and accept it's almost extinct in English. I'm sick of being corrected when I'm not wrong | |||
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"Disagree
Gender is a social construct.
But when it comes down to biological sex, it's still not quite as binary as that. Yes, the vast majority will fall into one primary category or the other, but there are still exceptions "This! Written better than I'd have put it. Mrs | |||
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"I don't care what people identify as at all. I just wish that we could find the right pronoun to describe someone who is non-binary. The plural 'they/them' is fucking ridiculous. We need to make one up. Why is it wrong? “Does anyone know whose coat this is?” “Yeah it’s theirs” Seems to work perfectly for someone whose gender you don’t know Get your point and you're right in regard as to referring to them in the third person as above. It fits. I guess it is weird when they are reported on in the media and Sam Smith for example is referred to in the plural. I never knew Swing's comment about 'Zie', but that's kind of what I expected the pronoun to be adapted to. But if it got rejected and nothing's changed then I guess I won't lose any further sleep! It’s only plural because you keep telling yourself it is “They” isn’t a plural. It’s always used for a plural, but that doesn’t always make it a plural “Has sam smith released a new song” “They have yes” It’s absolutely suitable as singular use I don’t get how people struggle with this. “Did you pick up the cake for Jays birthday?” ”Yeah, I got strawberry because it’s their favourite!” Sam Smith released his 53rd album last week. When asked how he thought it would be received they said "Amazeballs" Doesn't fit. Not to me. Maybe I need to retrain my brain to accept it Pretty much, yeah. We use it so rarely for singular because most of the time when we are talking about them, we know their gender That sentence looks completely normal to me but I had to get used to using it " *Commencing Step 1 of training now* | |||
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"My biological sex is female but my gender is lesbian hope this helps xx" Asking because I don't understand but isn't lesbian your sexuality rather than your gender? Mrs | |||
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"My biological sex is female but my gender is lesbian hope this helps xx Asking because I don't understand but isn't lesbian your sexuality rather than your gender? Mrs " It’s my sexuality too but I don’t know I feel so strongly with it that it’s my gender too y’know? I don’t really know how to explain it lol…I just feel like I’m more lesbian than woman? It’s a weird one to explain lol xx | |||
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"some people are born with the physical sexual characteristics of both male and female, which sex or gender are they? " I suppose, with no skin in this game, that if you can bare a child, you're female, and if you can't your male. | |||
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"some people are born with the physical sexual characteristics of both male and female, which sex or gender are they? I suppose, with no skin in this game, that if you can bare a child, you're female, and if you can't your male. " I've got a friend who was born with external female genitalia and has been treated as female all her life. It was discovered in her teens that she was born without a uterus. I'll go tell her she's a bloke. (She lives in an anti abortion state in the US. I'm sure - inability to fall pregnant notwithstanding - she'll be delighted) | |||
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"I’m a cis woman, I was born female and identify as female. I think it’s really not the place of someone like my to tell someone who doesn’t identify with either the sex they were born with or, in fact, either sex that they’re wrong to feel the way they do. I don’t understand or identify with how they feel and I never will, my opinion on it really doesn’t matter, and it shouldn’t be the one that defines the argument. " I agree with this. That’s why I don’t really have an opinion on it. I kind of see both sides. It also has never affected me at all. If it does I may have an opinion. | |||
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"No, gender is not a social construct, it is a construct that has been created by sections of society that believe giving ‘labels’ to themselves and others entitles them to a level discourse on their terms - it is a re-definition, you can choose to accept or not. " I like how you said it’s not a social construct, and the literally defined it as a social construct. | |||
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"some people are born with the physical sexual characteristics of both male and female, which sex or gender are they? I suppose, with no skin in this game, that if you can bare a child, you're female, and if you can't your male. I've got a friend who was born with external female genitalia and has been treated as female all her life. It was discovered in her teens that she was born without a uterus. I'll go tell her she's a bloke. (She lives in an anti abortion state in the US. I'm sure - inability to fall pregnant notwithstanding - she'll be delighted)" Just here offering an opinion, based on my 80s biology lessons. As I say, I have no skin in this, and opinions are supposedly welcome in a debate | |||
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"some people are born with the physical sexual characteristics of both male and female, which sex or gender are they? I suppose, with no skin in this game, that if you can bare a child, you're female, and if you can't your male. I've got a friend who was born with external female genitalia and has been treated as female all her life. It was discovered in her teens that she was born without a uterus. I'll go tell her she's a bloke. (She lives in an anti abortion state in the US. I'm sure - inability to fall pregnant notwithstanding - she'll be delighted) Just here offering an opinion, based on my 80s biology lessons. As I say, I have no skin in this, and opinions are supposedly welcome in a debate "I didn't say you couldn't have an opinion. I was just providing a counter opinion. I thought that was how freedom of speech worked - the marketplace of ideas. | |||
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"I strongly disagree. Why ? Because there are only 2 sexes. They are determined biologically ....... Gender is something else entirely. " Nailed it. | |||
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"For me you’re either born with a cock or a pussy, so either male or female. Yes I am aware sometimes nature makes you born with both. I don’t personally understand all this pansexual and non binary. It makes things so complicated! I mean you don’t go into Asda and find toilets for male, female, disabled, non binary etc. May be they need to have male, female, disabled and confused. Not intending to upset or insult anyone it’s just my own personal opinion" My Asda has two loos. Both non gender specific so you can use either. Effectively non binary, so.........I | |||
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"For me you’re either born with a cock or a pussy, so either male or female. Yes I am aware sometimes nature makes you born with both. I don’t personally understand all this pansexual and non binary. It makes things so complicated! I mean you don’t go into Asda and find toilets for male, female, disabled, non binary etc. May be they need to have male, female, disabled and confused. Not intending to upset or insult anyone it’s just my own personal opinion My Asda has two loos. Both non gender specific so you can use either. One Asda near me has 2 toilets both with a male and female sign on the door. Another has a male, a female and a disabled. So I suppose it depends where you go Effectively non binary, so.........I " | |||
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"Strongly agree because I can. The same way people are allowed to believe in God, flat Earth or a glass of red wine a day is beneficial. Everyone has their logic / reasons "Your way of thinking leads to prejudice and disadvantages of others. | |||
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"I may be completely wrong here but the way I feel there are only 2 sexes who have a spectrum of genders who have a spectrum of sexualities to choose from dependent upon their own orientation and beliefs at that time- all of which can be changed as and when the individual wishes. S xxx" This | |||
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"Everyone can identify as whatever they want. What don't like is being called a 'cis' woman,I most definitely am not, I'm a woman. I find it a little hypocritical of a section of the population calling me this but demanding I call them a preferred title. Show the same respect to us woman... and those guys who identify as men, Mrs x" 100% agree it's fucking hypocritical to say we have to call them X but they can call us whenever they like. | |||
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"Everyone can identify as whatever they want. What don't like is being called a 'cis' woman,I most definitely am not, I'm a woman. I find it a little hypocritical of a section of the population calling me this but demanding I call them a preferred title. Show the same respect to us woman... and those guys who identify as men, Mrs x" I'm happy to b a cis woman just saves a bit of confusion is how I see it? X | |||
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"Everyone can identify as whatever they want. What don't like is being called a 'cis' woman,I most definitely am not, I'm a woman. I find it a little hypocritical of a section of the population calling me this but demanding I call them a preferred title. Show the same respect to us woman... and those guys who identify as men, Mrs x I'm happy to b a cis woman just saves a bit of confusion is how I see it? X" I don't even know what cis means. If it means I'm a woman in the traditional sense just call me a woman, Mrs x | |||
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"Everyone can identify as whatever they want. What don't like is being called a 'cis' woman,I most definitely am not, I'm a woman. I find it a little hypocritical of a section of the population calling me this but demanding I call them a preferred title. Show the same respect to us woman... and those guys who identify as men, Mrs x" Never thought of it like this but yes you’re right. | |||
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"Agree strongly Of course there are only two genders anything else is a lifestyle choice. Im yet to see a man have a period or pop out a baby. On the flip side ive never seen a woman with a cock shoot a load
Mr"Ohh dear a lifestyle choice! !!!! | |||
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"I strongly disagree. Why ? Because there are only 2 sexes. They are determined biologically ....... Gender is something else entirely. " Granny had it right in the second comment. Stop confusing sex with gender. | |||
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"Agree strongly Of course there are only two genders anything else is a lifestyle choice. Im yet to see a man have a period or pop out a baby. On the flip side ive never seen a woman with a cock shoot a load
Mr
Ohh dear a lifestyle choice! !!!!"Certainly is | |||
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"Agree strongly Of course there are only two genders anything else is a lifestyle choice. Im yet to see a man have a period or pop out a baby. On the flip side ive never seen a woman with a cock shoot a load
Mr
Ohh dear a lifestyle choice! !!!!
Certainly is "It certainly is not!! | |||
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"Agree strongly Of course there are only two genders anything else is a lifestyle choice. Im yet to see a man have a period or pop out a baby. On the flip side ive never seen a woman with a cock shoot a load
Mr
Ohh dear a lifestyle choice! !!!!
Certainly is
It certainly is not!! "Show me a man pop out a baby or a woman with a dong and ill change my mind | |||
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"If sex is binary, where does an intersex person fit in?" Depends how you look at things People tend to have 5 fingers in each hand. Some people are born with less, some with more Does that mean the number of fingers on a human hand is a spectrum? Or do we all agree it’s 5 with some variation outside the norm It depends how pedantic you want to be | |||
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"If sex is binary, where does an intersex person fit in? Depends how you look at things People tend to have 5 fingers in each hand. Some people are born with less, some with more Does that mean the number of fingers on a human hand is a spectrum? Or do we all agree it’s 5 with some variation outside the norm It depends how pedantic you want to be " Some people can be very pedantic | |||
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"Say whether you Agree strongly, Agree, Agree slightly, Are Neutral, Disagree slightly, Disagree, or Disagree strongly with the claim in the title. Give reasons for your opinion." Strongly agree , I don't believe it needs an explanation | |||
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"If sex is binary, where does an intersex person fit in? Depends how you look at things People tend to have 5 fingers in each hand. Some people are born with less, some with more Does that mean the number of fingers on a human hand is a spectrum? Or do we all agree it’s 5 with some variation outside the norm It depends how pedantic you want to be " Fair enough. I guess it’s where you choose to take your view from too. “Intersex people are individuals born with any of several sex characteristics including chromosome patterns, gonads, or genitals that, according to the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, "do not fit typical binary notions of male or female bodies".” I’ll take the OUNHCHR for this one. | |||
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"If sex is binary, where does an intersex person fit in? Depends how you look at things People tend to have 5 fingers in each hand. Some people are born with less, some with more Does that mean the number of fingers on a human hand is a spectrum? Or do we all agree it’s 5 with some variation outside the norm It depends how pedantic you want to be Some people can be very pedantic "Or simply asking questions and listening to others opinions, Sparkle. I’m still allowed to disagree | |||
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"Everyone can identify as whatever they want. What don't like is being called a 'cis' woman,I most definitely am not, I'm a woman. I find it a little hypocritical of a section of the population calling me this but demanding I call them a preferred title. Show the same respect to us woman... and those guys who identify as men, Mrs x I'm happy to b a cis woman just saves a bit of confusion is how I see it? XI don't even know what cis means. If it means I'm a woman in the traditional sense just call me a woman, Mrs x" Female at birth ! X | |||
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"If sex is binary, where does an intersex person fit in? Depends how you look at things People tend to have 5 fingers in each hand. Some people are born with less, some with more Does that mean the number of fingers on a human hand is a spectrum? Or do we all agree it’s 5 with some variation outside the norm It depends how pedantic you want to be Fair enough. I guess it’s where you choose to take your view from too. “Intersex people are individuals born with any of several sex characteristics including chromosome patterns, gonads, or genitals that, according to the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, "do not fit typical binary notions of male or female bodies".” I’ll take the OUNHCHR for this one. " Same, since it looks like they are saying there is a sex binary, and intersex just fall outside that binary Much like the hand analogy | |||
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"If sex is binary, where does an intersex person fit in? Depends how you look at things People tend to have 5 fingers in each hand. Some people are born with less, some with more Does that mean the number of fingers on a human hand is a spectrum? Or do we all agree it’s 5 with some variation outside the norm It depends how pedantic you want to be Some people can be very pedantic
Or simply asking questions and listening to others opinions, Sparkle. I’m still allowed to disagree "No-one said you weren't | |||
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"If sex is binary, where does an intersex person fit in? Depends how you look at things People tend to have 5 fingers in each hand. Some people are born with less, some with more Does that mean the number of fingers on a human hand is a spectrum? Or do we all agree it’s 5 with some variation outside the norm It depends how pedantic you want to be Some people can be very pedantic
Or simply asking questions and listening to others opinions, Sparkle. I’m still allowed to disagree "It kinda looks like you asked because you’d already found your answer and had copy pasted it ready. Not quite the same as looking for others opinions but that’s just my view | |||
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"If sex is binary, where does an intersex person fit in? Depends how you look at things People tend to have 5 fingers in each hand. Some people are born with less, some with more Does that mean the number of fingers on a human hand is a spectrum? Or do we all agree it’s 5 with some variation outside the norm It depends how pedantic you want to be Fair enough. I guess it’s where you choose to take your view from too. “Intersex people are individuals born with any of several sex characteristics including chromosome patterns, gonads, or genitals that, according to the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, "do not fit typical binary notions of male or female bodies".” I’ll take the OUNHCHR for this one. Same, since it looks like they are saying there is a sex binary, and intersex just fall outside that binary Much like the hand analogy" No one is disputing there is a typical sex binary, that’s not the same as saying it’s correct that there is only a binary, just to be a pedant.  | |||
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"If sex is binary, where does an intersex person fit in? Depends how you look at things People tend to have 5 fingers in each hand. Some people are born with less, some with more Does that mean the number of fingers on a human hand is a spectrum? Or do we all agree it’s 5 with some variation outside the norm It depends how pedantic you want to be Some people can be very pedantic
Or simply asking questions and listening to others opinions, Sparkle. I’m still allowed to disagree
It kinda looks like you asked because you’d already found your answer and had copy pasted it ready. Not quite the same as looking for others opinions but that’s just my view "You’re entitled to think that. It’s wrong. I said I’m listening to others, that doesn’t mean I don’t already have an opinion. But that’s the joy of freedom of speech, we can disagree. It’s great! | |||
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"For me you’re either born with a cock or a pussy, so either male or female. Yes I am aware sometimes nature makes you born with both. I don’t personally understand all this pansexual and non binary. It makes things so complicated! I mean you don’t go into Asda and find toilets for male, female, disabled, non binary etc. May be they need to have male, female, disabled and confused. Not intending to upset or insult anyone it’s just my own personal opinion" I didn't realise "disabled" was a gender! Also, I find it amusing how everyone gets really riled about gender and its apparent connection with toilets. Conveniently forgetting that disabled people of whatever gender are just expected to use the same toilet. No segregation. | |||
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" Also, I find it amusing how everyone gets really riled about gender and its apparent connection with toilets. Conveniently forgetting that disabled people of whatever gender are just expected to use the same toilet. No segregation. " In most places the disabled toilet is a self-contained room with floor to ceiling walls, a substantial door, and no foyer area because the sinks are inside the cubicle. Many people are uncomfortable with male people being in female toilets because the cubicles do not have these features. The university I went to, in their newest building, had a corridor of toilets. Each were essentially an individual accessible cubicle. They all opened out onto the corridor and had their own sinks with proper walls and doors. It meant the whole thing could be unisex/accessible, but also that female people weren't vulnerable. Great design like this is what we need in the future. | |||
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"For me you’re either born with a cock or a pussy, so either male or female. Yes I am aware sometimes nature makes you born with both. I don’t personally understand all this pansexual and non binary. It makes things so complicated! I mean you don’t go into Asda and find toilets for male, female, disabled, non binary etc. May be they need to have male, female, disabled and confused. Not intending to upset or insult anyone it’s just my own personal opinion I didn't realise "disabled" was a gender! Also, I find it amusing how everyone gets really riled about gender and its apparent connection with toilets. Conveniently forgetting that disabled people of whatever gender are just expected to use the same toilet. No segregation. " At the same time? | |||
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"For me you’re either born with a cock or a pussy, so either male or female. Yes I am aware sometimes nature makes you born with both. I don’t personally understand all this pansexual and non binary. It makes things so complicated! I mean you don’t go into Asda and find toilets for male, female, disabled, non binary etc. May be they need to have male, female, disabled and confused. Not intending to upset or insult anyone it’s just my own personal opinion I didn't realise "disabled" was a gender! Also, I find it amusing how everyone gets really riled about gender and its apparent connection with toilets. Conveniently forgetting that disabled people of whatever gender are just expected to use the same toilet. No segregation. At the same time? " No, but if the disabled toilet is occupied, you have to enter/exit with the door open/unlocked, with people of other genders also trying to enter/exit. Often, disabled toilets are located away from the other gendered toilets and quite often at the end of corridors or beyond additional doors. It's often very isolated and if like me, you are on wheels, it is very easy to be detained in the toilet. Because they are not gendered, no-one would find it unusual to have people of different genders going towards those toilets. The lack of gendering also means many disabled toilets lack sanitary bins and I've been in maybe single digit numbers of disabled toilets that have sanitary dispensing machines. Disabled females obviously don't menstruate or anything. | |||
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"For me you’re either born with a cock or a pussy, so either male or female. Yes I am aware sometimes nature makes you born with both. I don’t personally understand all this pansexual and non binary. It makes things so complicated! I mean you don’t go into Asda and find toilets for male, female, disabled, non binary etc. May be they need to have male, female, disabled and confused. Not intending to upset or insult anyone it’s just my own personal opinion I didn't realise "disabled" was a gender! Also, I find it amusing how everyone gets really riled about gender and its apparent connection with toilets. Conveniently forgetting that disabled people of whatever gender are just expected to use the same toilet. No segregation. At the same time? No, but if the disabled toilet is occupied, you have to enter/exit with the door open/unlocked, with people of other genders also trying to enter/exit. Often, disabled toilets are located away from the other gendered toilets and quite often at the end of corridors or beyond additional doors. It's often very isolated and if like me, you are on wheels, it is very easy to be detained in the toilet. Because they are not gendered, no-one would find it unusual to have people of different genders going towards those toilets. The lack of gendering also means many disabled toilets lack sanitary bins and I've been in maybe single digit numbers of disabled toilets that have sanitary dispensing machines. Disabled females obviously don't menstruate or anything. " I do think it's disgusting that there isn't any separation between disabled toilets....I've always wondered why that is. | |||
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"For me you’re either born with a cock or a pussy, so either male or female. Yes I am aware sometimes nature makes you born with both. I don’t personally understand all this pansexual and non binary. It makes things so complicated! I mean you don’t go into Asda and find toilets for male, female, disabled, non binary etc. May be they need to have male, female, disabled and confused. Not intending to upset or insult anyone it’s just my own personal opinion I didn't realise "disabled" was a gender! Also, I find it amusing how everyone gets really riled about gender and its apparent connection with toilets. Conveniently forgetting that disabled people of whatever gender are just expected to use the same toilet. No segregation. At the same time? No, but if the disabled toilet is occupied, you have to enter/exit with the door open/unlocked, with people of other genders also trying to enter/exit. Often, disabled toilets are located away from the other gendered toilets and quite often at the end of corridors or beyond additional doors. It's often very isolated and if like me, you are on wheels, it is very easy to be detained in the toilet. Because they are not gendered, no-one would find it unusual to have people of different genders going towards those toilets. The lack of gendering also means many disabled toilets lack sanitary bins and I've been in maybe single digit numbers of disabled toilets that have sanitary dispensing machines. Disabled females obviously don't menstruate or anything. " I have noticed they're often more isolated, that's a good point. Didn't realise that sanitary bins weren't standard!  | |||
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"For me you’re either born with a cock or a pussy, so either male or female. Yes I am aware sometimes nature makes you born with both. I don’t personally understand all this pansexual and non binary. It makes things so complicated! I mean you don’t go into Asda and find toilets for male, female, disabled, non binary etc. May be they need to have male, female, disabled and confused. Not intending to upset or insult anyone it’s just my own personal opinion I didn't realise "disabled" was a gender! Also, I find it amusing how everyone gets really riled about gender and its apparent connection with toilets. Conveniently forgetting that disabled people of whatever gender are just expected to use the same toilet. No segregation. At the same time? No, but if the disabled toilet is occupied, you have to enter/exit with the door open/unlocked, with people of other genders also trying to enter/exit. Often, disabled toilets are located away from the other gendered toilets and quite often at the end of corridors or beyond additional doors. It's often very isolated and if like me, you are on wheels, it is very easy to be detained in the toilet. Because they are not gendered, no-one would find it unusual to have people of different genders going towards those toilets. The lack of gendering also means many disabled toilets lack sanitary bins and I've been in maybe single digit numbers of disabled toilets that have sanitary dispensing machines. Disabled females obviously don't menstruate or anything. I do think it's disgusting that there isn't any separation between disabled toilets....I've always wondered why that is." It doesn't bother me personally, apart from when they're left in a shitty state (often) and when they don't have sanitary bins or when they're lacking the proper safety equipment or are too small (all frequent issues). I personally have no issue with gender neutral toilets. But the ones designed for non disabled people generally open out onto some kind of public corridor, they're not hidden miles away from everything and behind extra doors, as many disabled ones are. Elsewhere in Europe, it's more common to have accessible cubicles within the gendered bathrooms, as well as gender neutral ones, which are usually better situated, e.g. in between the gendered bathroom entrance. | |||
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"If sex is binary, where does an intersex person fit in?" Wherever they wish to. There's an Interesting danish study, about older intersex people, only finding out they are intersex, when going for fertility tests, due to them not being able to have kids naturally. As it wasn't picked up in childhood  | |||
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"I strongly disagree. Why ? Because there are only 2 sexes. They are determined biologically ....... Gender is something else entirely. " | |||
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"If sex is binary, where does an intersex person fit in? Wherever they wish to. There's an Interesting danish study, about older intersex people, only finding out they are intersex, when going for fertility tests, due to them not being able to have kids naturally. As it wasn't picked up in childhood "
And I agree, wherever they want to, even that’s renouncing a binary. | |||
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"2 genders / sex I believe people can create their own genders as a social construct as I coping mechanism / escapism But the fact is there's only 2 " If sex and gender were the same thing, we wouldn't have two different terms "sex" and "gender". The two are not the same, they are not synonyms. | |||
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"some people are born with the physical sexual characteristics of both male and female, which sex or gender are they? I suppose, with no skin in this game, that if you can bare a child, you're female, and if you can't your male. I've got a friend who was born with external female genitalia and has been treated as female all her life. It was discovered in her teens that she was born without a uterus. I'll go tell her she's a bloke. (She lives in an anti abortion state in the US. I'm sure - inability to fall pregnant notwithstanding - she'll be delighted)" __ Don't forget all the pre-puberty girls. Based on that logic they are male too, until they bear children. | |||
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"There's actually three cis genders Male Female Hermaphrodite (yes this exists in humans too) Sexuality has many facets. " You should probably not talk about this. | |||
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"There's actually three cis genders Male Female Hermaphrodite (yes this exists in humans too) Sexuality has many facets. You should probably not talk about this." I don't see why not. | |||
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"I love how this is being ‘debated’ by people who for the vast majority, their understanding started and ended in secondary school at a level intended for sub par early teenage consumption. If you can’t grasp the difference between sex and gender, then you have no concept of this topic. I wish the people would do some reading and research before shouting about things that they are ignorant about" I think it's wrong to say the vast majority of folk in the the thread are uneducated. Especially as its only directed at the ones that don't agree there are 70 plus genders. I'm pretty educated. A level biology educated (granted, almost 40yrs ago!) I was taught genetics. No mention of gender, it was factual sex. Male, female & very small percentage of hermaphrodite or those born without any sexual organs. I now understand this new social construct of "gender". But over 70 of them?? Seriously? I totally get transexual/body dismorphia and will happily refer to anyone by him/her (whichever theyre more comfortable with)if they feel their gender does not match their sex at birth. But in my simple old fashioned way I can only see he/her not them/ze or any of the other such made up terms. I won't deliberately missgender folk to annoy them, but mistakes will be made, I'm sure. I'm old fashioned. I couldnt give a toss if someone called me a man (highly unlikely with these boobs!) But if you feel the need to gender me, I am female or a woman. Please don't "cis" me. Or do. Actually, I couldn't give a toss | |||
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"There are 3 male female and hemathrodite ." No. Hermaphroditism is referred to in humans as intersex or DSD. Having an intersex condition (or DSD) doesn't mean there is a third sex. And it's still nothing to do with gender. Because gender and sex are different things. "Differences in sex development (DSD) is a group of rare conditions involving genes, hormones and reproductive organs, including genitals. It means a person's sex development is different to most other people's." From the NHS website | |||
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"I love how this is being ‘debated’ by people who for the vast majority, their understanding started and ended in secondary school at a level intended for sub par early teenage consumption. If you can’t grasp the difference between sex and gender, then you have no concept of this topic. I wish the people would do some reading and research before shouting about things that they are ignorant about I think it's wrong to say the vast majority of folk in the the thread are uneducated. Especially as its only directed at the ones that don't agree there are 70 plus genders. I'm pretty educated. A level biology educated (granted, almost 40yrs ago!) I was taught genetics. No mention of gender, it was factual sex. Male, female & very small percentage of hermaphrodite or those born without any sexual organs. I now understand this new social construct of "gender". But over 70 of them?? Seriously? I totally get transexual/body dismorphia and will happily refer to anyone by him/her (whichever theyre more comfortable with)if they feel their gender does not match their sex at birth. But in my simple old fashioned way I can only see he/her not them/ze or any of the other such made up terms. I won't deliberately missgender folk to annoy them, but mistakes will be made, I'm sure. I'm old fashioned. I couldnt give a toss if someone called me a man (highly unlikely with these boobs!) But if you feel the need to gender me, I am female or a woman. Please don't "cis" me. Or do. Actually, I couldn't give a toss "This | |||
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"I love how this is being ‘debated’ by people who for the vast majority, their understanding started and ended in secondary school at a level intended for sub par early teenage consumption. If you can’t grasp the difference between sex and gender, then you have no concept of this topic. I wish the people would do some reading and research before shouting about things that they are ignorant about" This. Again and again. Debating facts that you don’t understand is such an alienating concept to me, especially when it contributes to the oppression and marginalisation of other people. We can agree to disagree on trivial and subjective matters but when it comes down to harming others? Absolutely not. Both biological sex and gender are vast spectrums, not just in humans but across nature and science generally. Also the notion that the new binary is binary and non-binary just further illustrates how little people understand about language. Last year the documentary “Every Body” came out. It’s about intersex folk. Please watch even just the trailer to learn more about sex variety. Gender diversity isn’t new, it’s been around across the world for all of human existence. It’s only philistines who are trying to convince us otherwise. | |||
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"I can imagine all the answers without scrolling. Biologically it is important to know the sex you're born as. A CIS woman won't have prostate problems a trans woman could. So biologically anyone born with a Y chromosome is a male, anyone else a female = binary. XO, XX, XXX, XXXX, XXXXX females XY, XYY, XXY, XXXY, XXXXY males Perhaps one day DNA profiling will be done at birth, and the chromosomes entered on birth certificates. This will never need to be altered for transpeople. As for self identification - fill ya boots. "I have fat fingers, the wasn't intentional. | |||
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"I love how this is being ‘debated’ by people who for the vast majority, their understanding started and ended in secondary school at a level intended for sub par early teenage consumption. If you can’t grasp the difference between sex and gender, then you have no concept of this topic. I wish the people would do some reading and research before shouting about things that they are ignorant about I think it's wrong to say the vast majority of folk in the the thread are uneducated. Especially as its only directed at the ones that don't agree there are 70 plus genders. I'm pretty educated. A level biology educated (granted, almost 40yrs ago!) I was taught genetics. No mention of gender, it was factual sex. Male, female & very small percentage of hermaphrodite or those born without any sexual organs. I now understand this new social construct of "gender". But over 70 of them?? Seriously? I totally get transexual/body dismorphia and will happily refer to anyone by him/her (whichever theyre more comfortable with)if they feel their gender does not match their sex at birth. But in my simple old fashioned way I can only see he/her not them/ze or any of the other such made up terms. I won't deliberately missgender folk to annoy them, but mistakes will be made, I'm sure. I'm old fashioned. I couldnt give a toss if someone called me a man (highly unlikely with these boobs!) But if you feel the need to gender me, I am female or a woman. Please don't "cis" me. Or do. Actually, I couldn't give a toss "70 genders is a red-herring and wasn't the original question. It was are there more than two? I have a hunch most of the people talking about 70 genders don't think there can be 3, 4 or 5. It seems crazy in a place like this that people are even asking. The evidence is all around you that there are more than 2 genders (and I mean genders not biological sex) | |||
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"I can imagine all the answers without scrolling. Biologically it is important to know the sex you're born as. A CIS woman won't have prostate problems a trans woman could. So biologically anyone born with a Y chromosome is a male, anyone else a female = binary. XO, XX, XXX, XXXX, XXXXX females XY, XYY, XXY, XXXY, XXXXY males Perhaps one day DNA profiling will be done at birth, and the chromosomes entered on birth certificates. This will never need to be altered for transpeople. As for self identification - fill ya boots. "Some of us have both XX and XY chromosomes and then only sex characteristics associated with female anatomy…by your definition these people would still be male. How? It’s just simply more complicated than most of us know about. I invite everyone to stop trying to make a complex spectrum a binary. | |||
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"I can imagine all the answers without scrolling. Biologically it is important to know the sex you're born as. A CIS woman won't have prostate problems a trans woman could. So biologically anyone born with a Y chromosome is a male, anyone else a female = binary. XO, XX, XXX, XXXX, XXXXX females XY, XYY, XXY, XXXY, XXXXY males Perhaps one day DNA profiling will be done at birth, and the chromosomes entered on birth certificates. This will never need to be altered for transpeople. As for self identification - fill ya boots. "Great response. | |||
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"A transgender woman says she's a woman so I recommend you kick them in the balls for proof "  | |||
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"I can imagine all the answers without scrolling. Biologically it is important to know the sex you're born as. A CIS woman won't have prostate problems a trans woman could. So biologically anyone born with a Y chromosome is a male, anyone else a female = binary. XO, XX, XXX, XXXX, XXXXX females XY, XYY, XXY, XXXY, XXXXY males Perhaps one day DNA profiling will be done at birth, and the chromosomes entered on birth certificates. This will never need to be altered for transpeople. As for self identification - fill ya boots.
Some of us have both XX and XY chromosomes and then only sex characteristics associated with female anatomy…by your definition these people would still be male. How?
It’s just simply more complicated than most of us know about. I invite everyone to stop trying to make a complex spectrum a binary. "Read: More Women Than Expected Are Genetically Men XX and XY is probably XXXY | |||
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"Gender is a social construct (some societies gave more than two " Typo. Have, not gave. | |||
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"A transgender woman says she's a woman so I recommend you kick them in the balls for proof " Happy jail sentence for assault... | |||
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"I can imagine all the answers without scrolling. Biologically it is important to know the sex you're born as. A CIS woman won't have prostate problems a trans woman could. So biologically anyone born with a Y chromosome is a male, anyone else a female = binary. XO, XX, XXX, XXXX, XXXXX females XY, XYY, XXY, XXXY, XXXXY males Perhaps one day DNA profiling will be done at birth, and the chromosomes entered on birth certificates. This will never need to be altered for transpeople. As for self identification - fill ya boots.
Some of us have both XX and XY chromosomes and then only sex characteristics associated with female anatomy…by your definition these people would still be male. How?
It’s just simply more complicated than most of us know about. I invite everyone to stop trying to make a complex spectrum a binary.
Read:
More Women Than Expected Are Genetically Men
XX and XY is probably XXXY"Source? | |||
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"I can imagine all the answers without scrolling. Biologically it is important to know the sex you're born as. A CIS woman won't have prostate problems a trans woman could. So biologically anyone born with a Y chromosome is a male, anyone else a female = binary. XO, XX, XXX, XXXX, XXXXX females XY, XYY, XXY, XXXY, XXXXY males Perhaps one day DNA profiling will be done at birth, and the chromosomes entered on birth certificates. This will never need to be altered for transpeople. As for self identification - fill ya boots.
Some of us have both XX and XY chromosomes and then only sex characteristics associated with female anatomy…by your definition these people would still be male. How?
It’s just simply more complicated than most of us know about. I invite everyone to stop trying to make a complex spectrum a binary.
Read:
More Women Than Expected Are Genetically Men
XX and XY is probably XXXY
Source?"If you Google the title, that is the source. | |||
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"I can imagine all the answers without scrolling. Biologically it is important to know the sex you're born as. A CIS woman won't have prostate problems a trans woman could. So biologically anyone born with a Y chromosome is a male, anyone else a female = binary. XO, XX, XXX, XXXX, XXXXX females XY, XYY, XXY, XXXY, XXXXY males Perhaps one day DNA profiling will be done at birth, and the chromosomes entered on birth certificates. This will never need to be altered for transpeople. As for self identification - fill ya boots.
Some of us have both XX and XY chromosomes and then only sex characteristics associated with female anatomy…by your definition these people would still be male. How?
It’s just simply more complicated than most of us know about. I invite everyone to stop trying to make a complex spectrum a binary.
Read:
More Women Than Expected Are Genetically Men
XX and XY is probably XXXY
Source?
If you Google the title, that is the source."Oh is that an article? Sorry I thought you were just saying “as in it means/read” not that it was a reference doc - thanks. It’s interesting. | |||
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"I’ll go with neutral "Same. Not touching this one | |||
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"I don't care what people identify as at all. I just wish that we could find the right pronoun to describe someone who is non-binary. The plural 'they/them' is fucking ridiculous. We need to make one up." They or them implies more than one person so i get easily confused | |||
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"I can imagine all the answers without scrolling. Biologically it is important to know the sex you're born as. A CIS woman won't have prostate problems a trans woman could. So biologically anyone born with a Y chromosome is a male, anyone else a female = binary. XO, XX, XXX, XXXX, XXXXX females XY, XYY, XXY, XXXY, XXXXY males Perhaps one day DNA profiling will be done at birth, and the chromosomes entered on birth certificates. This will never need to be altered for transpeople. As for self identification - fill ya boots.
Some of us have both XX and XY chromosomes and then only sex characteristics associated with female anatomy…by your definition these people would still be male. How?
It’s just simply more complicated than most of us know about. I invite everyone to stop trying to make a complex spectrum a binary.
Read:
More Women Than Expected Are Genetically Men
XX and XY is probably XXXY
Source?
If you Google the title, that is the source.
Oh is that an article? Sorry I thought you were just saying “as in it means/read” not that it was a reference doc - thanks.
It’s interesting. "It is. Abnormalities/when things go wrong, prove how our bodies are exceptional when they go right. It touches on intersex. It does not cover xx male but will also be dysgenesis. If sex chromosomes are mapped at birth, then treatments and or socialisation can prevent/reduce psychological trauma that invariably occurs when abnormalities are later discovered at puberty. | |||
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"I don't care what people identify as at all. I just wish that we could find the right pronoun to describe someone who is non-binary. The plural 'they/them' is fucking ridiculous. We need to make one up. They or them implies more than one person so i get easily confused" Not exclusively. They/them is accepted as singular when gender/sex is unknown (not merely identified as such), or if wishing not to reveal gender/sex as in data confidentiality, for example, My patient has head pain, they are also experiencing aura. | |||
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"I can imagine all the answers without scrolling. Biologically it is important to know the sex you're born as. A CIS woman won't have prostate problems a trans woman could. So biologically anyone born with a Y chromosome is a male, anyone else a female = binary. XO, XX, XXX, XXXX, XXXXX females XY, XYY, XXY, XXXY, XXXXY males Perhaps one day DNA profiling will be done at birth, and the chromosomes entered on birth certificates. This will never need to be altered for transpeople. As for self identification - fill ya boots.
Some of us have both XX and XY chromosomes and then only sex characteristics associated with female anatomy…by your definition these people would still be male. How?
It’s just simply more complicated than most of us know about. I invite everyone to stop trying to make a complex spectrum a binary.
Read:
More Women Than Expected Are Genetically Men
XX and XY is probably XXXY
Source?
If you Google the title, that is the source.
Oh is that an article? Sorry I thought you were just saying “as in it means/read” not that it was a reference doc - thanks.
It’s interesting.
It is. Abnormalities/when things go wrong, prove how our bodies are exceptional when they go right. It touches on intersex. It does not cover xx male but will also be dysgenesis.
If sex chromosomes are mapped at birth, then treatments and or socialisation can prevent/reduce psychological trauma that invariably occurs when abnormalities are later discovered at puberty."It’s fascinating, having attended a number of intersex driven events, through work, I’m still unclear as there’s a lot science thrown around offering argument against too: I’ve personally left it in my mind as more nuanced than binary and listened to the asks of people who are intersex too. Thanks for the read tho. I’m going to keep reading and learning. | |||
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"I don't care what people identify as at all. I just wish that we could find the right pronoun to describe someone who is non-binary. The plural 'they/them' is fucking ridiculous. We need to make one up." Fun fact… ALL pronouns are made up, just like every other bit of language | |||
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"I’m a cis woman, I was born female and identify as female. I think it’s really not the place of someone like my to tell someone who doesn’t identify with either the sex they were born with or, in fact, either sex that they’re wrong to feel the way they do. I don’t understand or identify with how they feel and I never will, my opinion on it really doesn’t matter, and it shouldn’t be the one that defines the argument. " very well said. I am also cis female which makes my.life easier but it doesn't make me right and others wrong. Respect people's right to choose their pronouns and do your best to use them. you may fuck up every now and then but I believe if you are trying that's the most important thing. I have never had anyone jump.down my throat for an honest mishap. | |||
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"I think people confuse biological sex with gender or simply and deliberately conflate sex with gender to use as a hammer to beat people with and dismiss their identity with. I very much understand the hard biology of bith sex. I don't think you can dispute that. However I don't see that as being an exclusive determiner to a person's gender. Gender is different from sex in the context we use it and see it in society. Its less about hard biology and more about the traits and norms we assign to a category. Not everyone's gender matches these gender norms we assign to their sex. It's really complex and sometimes the answers aren't simple to find or even possible to find a prefect solution. Because some practicalities of gender identity clash with centuries of norms and protocols. Sometimes I think it's ends up being a case of finding a best outcome rather than a perfect outcome. But that's societies in general. We are a mix and sometimes it is about balanced comprises in all aspects of society. However as a general rule things should be too complicated if we apply a good dose of mutual respect and empathy (not that its the cure to all issues). And I think we should be wary of the true intent of people who report to dismiss the transgender community purely on science grouds. At best this can be a simple failure of distinction between sex and gender but more often it's comes from a more sinister (and possibly subconscious) place. " Sex determination based on DNA is objective. It's factual. However, DNA knowledge is in its infancy. We may discover more which actually disputes the facts of today. That's how science works. A person is so much more than their genetic make-up, subjective. This is what we must respect, but it's not wrong to have the binary birth/biological/genetic sex for medical treatment (and including the chromosome abnormalities). Gender is for life in general, and to some, is changeable/fluid. | |||
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"I think people confuse biological sex with gender or simply and deliberately conflate sex with gender to use as a hammer to beat people with and dismiss their identity with. I very much understand the hard biology of bith sex. I don't think you can dispute that. However I don't see that as being an exclusive determiner to a person's gender. Gender is different from sex in the context we use it and see it in society. Its less about hard biology and more about the traits and norms we assign to a category. Not everyone's gender matches these gender norms we assign to their sex. It's really complex and sometimes the answers aren't simple to find or even possible to find a prefect solution. Because some practicalities of gender identity clash with centuries of norms and protocols. Sometimes I think it's ends up being a case of finding a best outcome rather than a perfect outcome. But that's societies in general. We are a mix and sometimes it is about balanced comprises in all aspects of society. However as a general rule things should be too complicated if we apply a good dose of mutual respect and empathy (not that its the cure to all issues). And I think we should be wary of the true intent of people who report to dismiss the transgender community purely on science grouds. At best this can be a simple failure of distinction between sex and gender but more often it's comes from a more sinister (and possibly subconscious) place. Sex determination based on DNA is objective. It's factual. However, DNA knowledge is in its infancy. We may discover more which actually disputes the facts of today. That's how science works. A person is so much more than their genetic make-up, subjective. This is what we must respect, but it's not wrong to have the binary birth/biological/genetic sex for medical treatment (and including the chromosome abnormalities). Gender is for life in general, and to some, is changeable/fluid." Perhaps stating concrete and abstract is better than objective and subjective? | |||
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"Say whether you Agree strongly, Agree, Agree slightly, Are Neutral, Disagree slightly, Disagree, or Disagree strongly with the claim in the title. Give reasons for your opinion." Neutral in that I don't give two squirts of piss. I'll treat anyone how I want to be treated regardless of gender Identity. I will treat them no less than anyone else. However, what will expect is the respect back to my opinion on belief on sex and gender. I will not identify myself as Cis anything. I am a male, and identity as one.. Don't change what I am, to fit what you are. That's all I have a problem with. | |||
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