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Excess cardiovascular deaths
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"He’s a fucking crank. His theories are bollocks. " Really, why is he a crank and his theories bollocks? Lol | |||
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"He’s a fucking crank. His theories are bollocks. Really, why is he a crank and his theories bollocks? Lol" He's been strongly condemned amongst his peers for many of his views and beliefs. He describes himself as a "leading cardiologist" yet rarely practices his trade within the UK medical profession as he's deemed to be a bit of a diet quack. | |||
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"He’s a fucking crank. His theories are bollocks. Really, why is he a crank and his theories bollocks? Lol" Id imagine cause he doesn't tow the fab party political line of Jabs = Best thing since sliced bread. | |||
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"2 year's of most people doing nothing but sitting at home eating, that's all" Yes that certainly hasn't helped | |||
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"Here is an interesting interview from BBC News, with Dr. Aseem Malhotra on likely contributory factor to excess cardiovascular deaths. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hhp60riPuVI" All of these posts by people who haven't had the jab. Why are you so bothered if you've not had it? | |||
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"Here is an interesting interview from BBC News, with Dr. Aseem Malhotra on likely contributory factor to excess cardiovascular deaths. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hhp60riPuVI All of these posts by people who haven't had the jab. Why are you so bothered if you've not had it? " Why are you saying they're bothered? | |||
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"Here is an interesting interview from BBC News, with Dr. Aseem Malhotra on likely contributory factor to excess cardiovascular deaths. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hhp60riPuVI All of these posts by people who haven't had the jab. Why are you so bothered if you've not had it? " I never said I havnt had it. | |||
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"Waiting over 2 years for results of angiogram. Jab or no jab, this is why lots of cardiovascular deaths are happening. People who would normally had tests and treatment, have just been left on a waiting list." Exactly this | |||
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"Doesn't covid cause heart issues too. Majority of uk population has had covid. Why is it the vaccine that is being linked to it?" Yes. The vaccine can cause it, Covid known to cause it. This is why these things are being studied. | |||
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"2 year's of most people doing nothing but sitting at home eating, that's all" Cut price McDonalds/other junk prob shortened a few lifespans too. I realised pretty early into first lockdown that I was spiralling so knocked it on the head. Getting weights for home was a chore so it was all bodyweight and cardio to start | |||
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"Here is an interesting interview from BBC News, with Dr. Aseem Malhotra on likely contributory factor to excess cardiovascular deaths. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hhp60riPuVI" For someone so careful to not say he know it's to be true and use likelihoods, it's unfortunate he says at least 1 in 800. That wasnt the lower bound. If I've read the CI we are 95pc confident It's at least 1 in 5,000 But also, he is on record as saying that his father would probably have survived of an ambulance go to him on time. It also seems his position is now that we are on Omicron (or whatever version we have now) which is lower risk, then we should reassess the need for further vaccines. That doesn't feel unreasonable. That doesn't show the vaccine was wrong to use in the past. We also need to look at things like severity of illness. While the vaccines may have caused more hospitalsations... If the stay was 20x longer with the placebo, does that make the vaccine worse... Or better ? | |||
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"You're wasting your time, nothing but jab zealots on here. " Actually the Zealots are the anti vax crowd. Those that have had the jab don't really care or condemn those that house not to. But if yiu catch covid and have a worse time re overnight and side egmffects through not having it there is no sympathy for you either | |||
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"Here is an interesting interview from BBC News, with Dr. Aseem Malhotra on likely contributory factor to excess cardiovascular deaths. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hhp60riPuVI All of these posts by people who haven't had the jab. Why are you so bothered if you've not had it? Why are you saying they're bothered? " Because they are on here making the most noise about it? | |||
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"You're wasting your time, nothing but jab zealots on here. Actually the Zealots are the anti vax crowd. Those that have had the jab don't really care or condemn those that house not to. But if yiu catch covid and have a worse time re overnight and side egmffects through not having it there is no sympathy for you either " Yes, let's forget those calls to have the unjabbed fired from workplaces, refused medical treatment, refused service at restaurants/pubs/shops and last but not least, rounded up and segregated in camps. Yes. All from posts in this very forum. | |||
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"You're wasting your time, nothing but jab zealots on here. Actually the Zealots are the anti vax crowd. Those that have had the jab don't really care or condemn those that house not to. But if yiu catch covid and have a worse time re overnight and side egmffects through not having it there is no sympathy for you either Yes, let's forget those calls to have the unjabbed fired from workplaces, refused medical treatment, refused service at restaurants/pubs/shops and last but not least, rounded up and segregated in camps. Yes. All from posts in this very forum." Remember it well. Let's not forget the personal name calling. Been told we were selfish and stupid x | |||
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"The best evidence to suggest that it’s Covid rather than the vaccines that are causing these deaths comes from Australia Australia, due to it’s isolation/ border control , was able to do a natural experiment: 2021, vax nearly all adults, no Covid . 2022, let Covid loose huge increase in cardiac deaths/ excess mortality. Not saying vaccine injury doesn’t happen but the risk is very small compared to a virus that attacks blood vessels. Just google a graph of excess deaths in Australia 2019 to present date- it is quite remarkable " Thanks for that it sort of backs up what is happening in the UK but uk has a lot more other variables. | |||
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"Here is an interesting interview from BBC News, with Dr. Aseem Malhotra on likely contributory factor to excess cardiovascular deaths. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hhp60riPuVI All of these posts by people who haven't had the jab. Why are you so bothered if you've not had it? " Isn't it about having a discussion about something that's causing people to die? Or are you suggesting people should be prevented from discussing it? | |||
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"Waiting over 2 years for results of angiogram. Jab or no jab, this is why lots of cardiovascular deaths are happening. People who would normally had tests and treatment, have just been left on a waiting list." That's not going to help for sure. | |||
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"Doesn't covid cause heart issues too. Majority of uk population has had covid. Why is it the vaccine that is being linked to it?" The majority of people have had a vaccine too? Just a thought. Until its better and more independently investigated we won't know. Common sense would suggest a few reasons. Most of which have been mentioned already here. | |||
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"The best evidence to suggest that it’s Covid rather than the vaccines that are causing these deaths comes from Australia Australia, due to it’s isolation/ border control , was able to do a natural experiment: 2021, vax nearly all adults, no Covid . 2022, let Covid loose huge increase in cardiac deaths/ excess mortality. Not saying vaccine injury doesn’t happen but the risk is very small compared to a virus that attacks blood vessels. Just google a graph of excess deaths in Australia 2019 to present date- it is quite remarkable " Good point. It seems there is enough out there if they want to look. I wonder what if any rigorous and unbiased analysis is being done though | |||
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"The best evidence to suggest that it’s Covid rather than the vaccines that are causing these deaths comes from Australia Australia, due to it’s isolation/ border control , was able to do a natural experiment: 2021, vax nearly all adults, no Covid . 2022, let Covid loose huge increase in cardiac deaths/ excess mortality. Not saying vaccine injury doesn’t happen but the risk is very small compared to a virus that attacks blood vessels. Just google a graph of excess deaths in Australia 2019 to present date- it is quite remarkable Good point. It seems there is enough out there if they want to look. I wonder what if any rigorous and unbiased analysis is being done though" I am sure there is plenty of analysis being done. There is a lag in collecting good data and there is a lot of noise in the data. There are usually about 300000 deaths in the uk. There were 42000 excess deaths in 2022. There were nearly 40000 covid deaths. There were nearly 90000 excess deaths in 2020 but they can pretty much be explain by covid as the numbers are pretty much identical. The numbers for 2021 are near identical too.the question is even though the excess deaths are dropping the gap between covid deaths and excess deaths is growing what is causing this? | |||
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"The best evidence to suggest that it’s Covid rather than the vaccines that are causing these deaths comes from Australia Australia, due to it’s isolation/ border control , was able to do a natural experiment: 2021, vax nearly all adults, no Covid . 2022, let Covid loose huge increase in cardiac deaths/ excess mortality. Not saying vaccine injury doesn’t happen but the risk is very small compared to a virus that attacks blood vessels. Just google a graph of excess deaths in Australia 2019 to present date- it is quite remarkable Good point. It seems there is enough out there if they want to look. I wonder what if any rigorous and unbiased analysis is being done though" How would you determine if analysis is unbiased? | |||
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"The best evidence to suggest that it’s Covid rather than the vaccines that are causing these deaths comes from Australia Australia, due to it’s isolation/ border control , was able to do a natural experiment: 2021, vax nearly all adults, no Covid . 2022, let Covid loose huge increase in cardiac deaths/ excess mortality. Not saying vaccine injury doesn’t happen but the risk is very small compared to a virus that attacks blood vessels. Just google a graph of excess deaths in Australia 2019 to present date- it is quite remarkable Good point. It seems there is enough out there if they want to look. I wonder what if any rigorous and unbiased analysis is being done though How would you determine if analysis is unbiased?" You'd hope that the minister for rigorous, timely and unbiased information would police that one. | |||
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"Waiting over 2 years for results of angiogram. Jab or no jab, this is why lots of cardiovascular deaths are happening. People who would normally had tests and treatment, have just been left on a waiting list." Correct. | |||
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"Waiting over 2 years for results of angiogram. Jab or no jab, this is why lots of cardiovascular deaths are happening. People who would normally had tests and treatment, have just been left on a waiting list." I had a heart attack during covid received good care in hospital but follow up was very very poor/ non existent | |||
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"The best evidence to suggest that it’s Covid rather than the vaccines that are causing these deaths comes from Australia Australia, due to it’s isolation/ border control , was able to do a natural experiment: 2021, vax nearly all adults, no Covid . 2022, let Covid loose huge increase in cardiac deaths/ excess mortality. Not saying vaccine injury doesn’t happen but the risk is very small compared to a virus that attacks blood vessels. Just google a graph of excess deaths in Australia 2019 to present date- it is quite remarkable Good point. It seems there is enough out there if they want to look. I wonder what if any rigorous and unbiased analysis is being done though How would you determine if analysis is unbiased? You'd hope that the minister for rigorous, timely and unbiased information would police that one. " And in the event you have to analyse information yourself? What are the criteria for a good or a bad study? | |||
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"Would that explain the sudden increase of healthy folk with no history of heart conditions dropping dead after being vaccinated??" This  . | |||
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"Waiting over 2 years for results of angiogram. Jab or no jab, this is why lots of cardiovascular deaths are happening. People who would normally had tests and treatment, have just been left on a waiting list. I had a heart attack during covid received good care in hospital but follow up was very very poor/ non existent " Hope you're on the mend mate | |||
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"Would that explain the sudden increase of healthy folk with no history of heart conditions dropping dead after being vaccinated??" Probably not. How many are dropping dead now and how many were dropping dead before? Is it 10 a week? 100? A 1000? | |||
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"The best evidence to suggest that it’s Covid rather than the vaccines that are causing these deaths comes from Australia Australia, due to it’s isolation/ border control , was able to do a natural experiment: 2021, vax nearly all adults, no Covid . 2022, let Covid loose huge increase in cardiac deaths/ excess mortality. Not saying vaccine injury doesn’t happen but the risk is very small compared to a virus that attacks blood vessels. Just google a graph of excess deaths in Australia 2019 to present date- it is quite remarkable Good point. It seems there is enough out there if they want to look. I wonder what if any rigorous and unbiased analysis is being done though How would you determine if analysis is unbiased? You'd hope that the minister for rigorous, timely and unbiased information would police that one. And in the event you have to analyse information yourself? What are the criteria for a good or a bad study?" Not in a position really beyond the ons data. And some of the conclusions and story lines based from that over the last 24 months have been highly questionable. But entering the spirit of the debate... It would probably mostly be trusted or credible source, trusted or credible organisation... Which admittedly is massively open to confirmation bias. | |||
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"Would that explain the sudden increase of healthy folk with no history of heart conditions dropping dead after being vaccinated??" Has there been a sudden increase, how do they number compare when you analyse sudden deaths in vaccinated vs unvaccinated? My limited personal experience is the contrary, more sudden deaths of people I know occurring in the few years prior to covid than since vaccination roll out. | |||
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"The best evidence to suggest that it’s Covid rather than the vaccines that are causing these deaths comes from Australia Australia, due to it’s isolation/ border control , was able to do a natural experiment: 2021, vax nearly all adults, no Covid . 2022, let Covid loose huge increase in cardiac deaths/ excess mortality. Not saying vaccine injury doesn’t happen but the risk is very small compared to a virus that attacks blood vessels. Just google a graph of excess deaths in Australia 2019 to present date- it is quite remarkable Good point. It seems there is enough out there if they want to look. I wonder what if any rigorous and unbiased analysis is being done though How would you determine if analysis is unbiased? You'd hope that the minister for rigorous, timely and unbiased information would police that one. And in the event you have to analyse information yourself? What are the criteria for a good or a bad study? Not in a position really beyond the ons data. And some of the conclusions and story lines based from that over the last 24 months have been highly questionable. But entering the spirit of the debate... It would probably mostly be trusted or credible source, trusted or credible organisation... Which admittedly is massively open to confirmation bias. " There are plenty of studies out there of varying quality. The ONS data is just one data set. Obviously interpretation is required. Potentially comparison to other data sets, working out how to make them truly comparable without introducing bias etc. | |||
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"You're wasting your time, nothing but jab zealots on here. " Says someone with colossal confirmation bias and/or poor reading/comprehension skills. Laughable stupidity. | |||
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"You're wasting your time, nothing but jab zealots on here. Says someone with colossal confirmation bias and/or poor reading/comprehension skills. Laughable stupidity. " Not exactly making yourself look good either. There are better ways to engage in a discussion rather. Everyone is entitles to an opinion, but anyone of here that raises questions about injuries etc are always attacked. Next I guess people will start calling the people who have had side effects/ injures by calling them Anti Vaxxers...... Funny....people having the vaccine and then having reactions and when raising concerns, they are now Anti Vaxxers, as reported on the BBC. The same BBC that is funder by Bill Gates. | |||
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"You're wasting your time, nothing but jab zealots on here. Says someone with colossal confirmation bias and/or poor reading/comprehension skills. Laughable stupidity. Not exactly making yourself look good either. There are better ways to engage in a discussion rather. Everyone is entitles to an opinion, but anyone of here that raises questions about injuries etc are always attacked. Next I guess people will start calling the people who have had side effects/ injures by calling them Anti Vaxxers...... Funny....people having the vaccine and then having reactions and when raising concerns, they are now Anti Vaxxers, as reported on the BBC. The same BBC that is funder by Bill Gates. " Maybe research that last comment a little more  | |||
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"The best evidence to suggest that it’s Covid rather than the vaccines that are causing these deaths comes from Australia Australia, due to it’s isolation/ border control , was able to do a natural experiment: 2021, vax nearly all adults, no Covid . 2022, let Covid loose huge increase in cardiac deaths/ excess mortality. Not saying vaccine injury doesn’t happen but the risk is very small compared to a virus that attacks blood vessels. Just google a graph of excess deaths in Australia 2019 to present date- it is quite remarkable " If nearly all adults were vacinnated in 2021, then how would they determine whether it was Covid that caused the deaths and not the vacinne? | |||
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"The best evidence to suggest that it’s Covid rather than the vaccines that are causing these deaths comes from Australia Australia, due to it’s isolation/ border control , was able to do a natural experiment: 2021, vax nearly all adults, no Covid . 2022, let Covid loose huge increase in cardiac deaths/ excess mortality. Not saying vaccine injury doesn’t happen but the risk is very small compared to a virus that attacks blood vessels. Just google a graph of excess deaths in Australia 2019 to present date- it is quite remarkable If nearly all adults were vacinnated in 2021, then how would they determine whether it was Covid that caused the deaths and not the vacinne?" Or vice versa? | |||
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"You're wasting your time, nothing but jab zealots on here. Says someone with colossal confirmation bias and/or poor reading/comprehension skills. Laughable stupidity. Not exactly making yourself look good either. There are better ways to engage in a discussion rather. Everyone is entitles to an opinion, but anyone of here that raises questions about injuries etc are always attacked. Next I guess people will start calling the people who have had side effects/ injures by calling them Anti Vaxxers...... Funny....people having the vaccine and then having reactions and when raising concerns, they are now Anti Vaxxers, as reported on the BBC. The same BBC that is funder by Bill Gates. " The BBC is principally funded through the licence fee paid by UK households. In 2021/22 this generated £3.8bn. In addition, the BBC's commercial operations, such as BBC Studios, provide supplementary income. In 2021/22, the BBC made £1.7bn through its commercial operations. Winston | |||
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"You're wasting your time, nothing but jab zealots on here. Says someone with colossal confirmation bias and/or poor reading/comprehension skills. Laughable stupidity. Not exactly making yourself look good either. There are better ways to engage in a discussion rather. Everyone is entitles to an opinion, but anyone of here that raises questions about injuries etc are always attacked. Next I guess people will start calling the people who have had side effects/ injures by calling them Anti Vaxxers...... Funny....people having the vaccine and then having reactions and when raising concerns, they are now Anti Vaxxers, as reported on the BBC. The same BBC that is funder by Bill Gates. The BBC is principally funded through the licence fee paid by UK households. In 2021/22 this generated £3.8bn. In addition, the BBC's commercial operations, such as BBC Studios, provide supplementary income. In 2021/22, the BBC made £1.7bn through its commercial operations. Winston " Don't confuse the poor man with actual facts | |||
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"You're wasting your time, nothing but jab zealots on here. Says someone with colossal confirmation bias and/or poor reading/comprehension skills. Laughable stupidity. Not exactly making yourself look good either. There are better ways to engage in a discussion rather. Everyone is entitles to an opinion, but anyone of here that raises questions about injuries etc are always attacked. Next I guess people will start calling the people who have had side effects/ injures by calling them Anti Vaxxers...... Funny....people having the vaccine and then having reactions and when raising concerns, they are now Anti Vaxxers, as reported on the BBC. The same BBC that is funder by Bill Gates. The BBC is principally funded through the licence fee paid by UK households. In 2021/22 this generated £3.8bn. In addition, the BBC's commercial operations, such as BBC Studios, provide supplementary income. In 2021/22, the BBC made £1.7bn through its commercial operations. Winston Don't confuse the poor man with actual facts "My bad....... 
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"The best evidence to suggest that it’s Covid rather than the vaccines that are causing these deaths comes from Australia Australia, due to it’s isolation/ border control , was able to do a natural experiment: 2021, vax nearly all adults, no Covid . 2022, let Covid loose huge increase in cardiac deaths/ excess mortality. Not saying vaccine injury doesn’t happen but the risk is very small compared to a virus that attacks blood vessels. Just google a graph of excess deaths in Australia 2019 to present date- it is quite remarkable If nearly all adults were vacinnated in 2021, then how would they determine whether it was Covid that caused the deaths and not the vacinne? Or vice versa?" My point exactly | |||
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"The whole "covid causes heart issues too, so get your jab" argument is flawed. I could see it from that point of view if everyone I know who is jabbed didn't also catch covid afterwards. Surely you are just compounding your risk factors at the point? So now you have whatever risks you have from the jabs(however small or large they may be)you took and the risks associated with covid afterwards?" that depends if the risk with COVID remains the same. Given where death rates are now, it looks like vaccines have reduced the risk considerably. So you are adding a risk and reducinh a risk. Given overall excess deaths are a lot lower than 2020, it looks likely that the maths is in the vaccines favour .... | |||
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"You're wasting your time, nothing but jab zealots on here. Says someone with colossal confirmation bias and/or poor reading/comprehension skills. Laughable stupidity. Not exactly making yourself look good either. There are better ways to engage in a discussion rather. Everyone is entitles to an opinion, but anyone of here that raises questions about injuries etc are always attacked. Next I guess people will start calling the people who have had side effects/ injures by calling them Anti Vaxxers...... Funny....people having the vaccine and then having reactions and when raising concerns, they are now Anti Vaxxers, as reported on the BBC. The same BBC that is funder by Bill Gates. " BBC funder by bill Gates! Well everyday is a school day. I always thought it was a license fee. | |||
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"The best evidence to suggest that it’s Covid rather than the vaccines that are causing these deaths comes from Australia Australia, due to it’s isolation/ border control , was able to do a natural experiment: 2021, vax nearly all adults, no Covid . 2022, let Covid loose huge increase in cardiac deaths/ excess mortality. Not saying vaccine injury doesn’t happen but the risk is very small compared to a virus that attacks blood vessels. Just google a graph of excess deaths in Australia 2019 to present date- it is quite remarkable If nearly all adults were vacinnated in 2021, then how would they determine whether it was Covid that caused the deaths and not the vacinne? Or vice versa?" Isn't the winner the one who shouts loudest most often? But yes it's an important question. And each side is being asked to believe the other with very little evidence to back up either argument.... Or...to put it another.. Just as much evidence to support both sides of the argument | |||
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"You're wasting your time, nothing but jab zealots on here. Says someone with colossal confirmation bias and/or poor reading/comprehension skills. Laughable stupidity. Not exactly making yourself look good either. There are better ways to engage in a discussion rather. Everyone is entitles to an opinion, but anyone of here that raises questions about injuries etc are always attacked. Next I guess people will start calling the people who have had side effects/ injures by calling them Anti Vaxxers...... Funny....people having the vaccine and then having reactions and when raising concerns, they are now Anti Vaxxers, as reported on the BBC. The same BBC that is funder by Bill Gates. The BBC is principally funded through the licence fee paid by UK households. In 2021/22 this generated £3.8bn. In addition, the BBC's commercial operations, such as BBC Studios, provide supplementary income. In 2021/22, the BBC made £1.7bn through its commercial operations. Winston " Was Bill Gates amongst them? | |||
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"The best evidence to suggest that it’s Covid rather than the vaccines that are causing these deaths comes from Australia Australia, due to it’s isolation/ border control , was able to do a natural experiment: 2021, vax nearly all adults, no Covid . 2022, let Covid loose huge increase in cardiac deaths/ excess mortality. Not saying vaccine injury doesn’t happen but the risk is very small compared to a virus that attacks blood vessels. Just google a graph of excess deaths in Australia 2019 to present date- it is quite remarkable If nearly all adults were vacinnated in 2021, then how would they determine whether it was Covid that caused the deaths and not the vacinne? Or vice versa? Isn't the winner the one who shouts loudest most often? But yes it's an important question. And each side is being asked to believe the other with very little evidence to back up either argument.... Or...to put it another.. Just as much evidence to support both sides of the argument " I suspect the tide is turning simply because the evidence in more recent months suggests the long term effects of Covid have to be taken serious particularly for children. It is probably not a coincidence the the German health minister who stated that Covid causes profound suppression of the immune system also attended Davos where there very stringent Covid measures. If you had Covid you were not allowed in. Its is very much a case of watch this space but you have got the ask the question why a senior figure in government would make such a statement- I expect more similar statements from senior health officials in the coming months | |||
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"You're wasting your time, nothing but jab zealots on here. Says someone with colossal confirmation bias and/or poor reading/comprehension skills. Laughable stupidity. Not exactly making yourself look good either. There are better ways to engage in a discussion rather. Everyone is entitles to an opinion, but anyone of here that raises questions about injuries etc are always attacked. Next I guess people will start calling the people who have had side effects/ injures by calling them Anti Vaxxers...... Funny....people having the vaccine and then having reactions and when raising concerns, they are now Anti Vaxxers, as reported on the BBC. The same BBC that is funder by Bill Gates. The BBC is principally funded through the licence fee paid by UK households. In 2021/22 this generated £3.8bn. In addition, the BBC's commercial operations, such as BBC Studios, provide supplementary income. In 2021/22, the BBC made £1.7bn through its commercial operations. Winston Was Bill Gates amongst them? " I believe he's got a 3 bedroom, 1 en suite, double garage, detached in Bexleyheath. Conservatory. Nice lawn.
Winston
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"The best evidence to suggest that it’s Covid rather than the vaccines that are causing these deaths comes from Australia Australia, due to it’s isolation/ border control , was able to do a natural experiment: 2021, vax nearly all adults, no Covid . 2022, let Covid loose huge increase in cardiac deaths/ excess mortality. Not saying vaccine injury doesn’t happen but the risk is very small compared to a virus that attacks blood vessels. Just google a graph of excess deaths in Australia 2019 to present date- it is quite remarkable If nearly all adults were vacinnated in 2021, then how would they determine whether it was Covid that caused the deaths and not the vacinne? Or vice versa? Isn't the winner the one who shouts loudest most often? But yes it's an important question. And each side is being asked to believe the other with very little evidence to back up either argument.... Or...to put it another.. Just as much evidence to support both sides of the argument I suspect the tide is turning simply because the evidence in more recent months suggests the long term effects of Covid have to be taken serious particularly for children. It is probably not a coincidence the the German health minister who stated that Covid causes profound suppression of the immune system also attended Davos where there very stringent Covid measures. If you had Covid you were not allowed in. Its is very much a case of watch this space but you have got the ask the question why a senior figure in government would make such a statement- I expect more similar statements from senior health officials in the coming months " And as long as they have rigorous and unbiased data to back up their claims and address peoples genuine concerns that should be fine. Just making pronouncements because "who's queen?" (thank you miranda Richardson) doesn't cut the mustard. | |||
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"The best evidence to suggest that it’s Covid rather than the vaccines that are causing these deaths comes from Australia Australia, due to it’s isolation/ border control , was able to do a natural experiment: 2021, vax nearly all adults, no Covid . 2022, let Covid loose huge increase in cardiac deaths/ excess mortality. Not saying vaccine injury doesn’t happen but the risk is very small compared to a virus that attacks blood vessels. Just google a graph of excess deaths in Australia 2019 to present date- it is quite remarkable If nearly all adults were vacinnated in 2021, then how would they determine whether it was Covid that caused the deaths and not the vacinne? Or vice versa? Isn't the winner the one who shouts loudest most often? But yes it's an important question. And each side is being asked to believe the other with very little evidence to back up either argument.... Or...to put it another.. Just as much evidence to support both sides of the argument I suspect the tide is turning simply because the evidence in more recent months suggests the long term effects of Covid have to be taken serious particularly for children. It is probably not a coincidence the the German health minister who stated that Covid causes profound suppression of the immune system also attended Davos where there very stringent Covid measures. If you had Covid you were not allowed in. Its is very much a case of watch this space but you have got the ask the question why a senior figure in government would make such a statement- I expect more similar statements from senior health officials in the coming months And as long as they have rigorous and unbiased data to back up their claims and address peoples genuine concerns that should be fine. Just making pronouncements because "who's queen?" (thank you miranda Richardson) doesn't cut the mustard. " A considerable number of studies have been building over the last year or so. The fact that they're not generally known doesn't say anything about their validity. | |||
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"https://www.bhf.org.uk/-/media/files/research/heart-statistics/bhf-cvd-statistics---uk-factsheet.pdf" These numbers go up every year. And not because of the vaccine. These numbers show why you may know someone that has had a heart attack recently. These numbers show why your health , diet and exercise are why you are more likely to have a heart attack , not the vaccine. | |||
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"The best evidence to suggest that it’s Covid rather than the vaccines that are causing these deaths comes from Australia Australia, due to it’s isolation/ border control , was able to do a natural experiment: 2021, vax nearly all adults, no Covid . 2022, let Covid loose huge increase in cardiac deaths/ excess mortality. Not saying vaccine injury doesn’t happen but the risk is very small compared to a virus that attacks blood vessels. Just google a graph of excess deaths in Australia 2019 to present date- it is quite remarkable If nearly all adults were vacinnated in 2021, then how would they determine whether it was Covid that caused the deaths and not the vacinne? Or vice versa? Isn't the winner the one who shouts loudest most often? But yes it's an important question. And each side is being asked to believe the other with very little evidence to back up either argument.... Or...to put it another.. Just as much evidence to support both sides of the argument I suspect the tide is turning simply because the evidence in more recent months suggests the long term effects of Covid have to be taken serious particularly for children. It is probably not a coincidence the the German health minister who stated that Covid causes profound suppression of the immune system also attended Davos where there very stringent Covid measures. If you had Covid you were not allowed in. Its is very much a case of watch this space but you have got the ask the question why a senior figure in government would make such a statement- I expect more similar statements from senior health officials in the coming months And as long as they have rigorous and unbiased data to back up their claims and address peoples genuine concerns that should be fine. Just making pronouncements because "who's queen?" (thank you miranda Richardson) doesn't cut the mustard. A considerable number of studies have been building over the last year or so. The fact that they're not generally known doesn't say anything about their validity." Well.. I'd dispute that. If they had "good" conclusions they would surely have been plastered everywhere... Why wouldn't they? The fact studies and conslusions exist (which may be a year out of date) but not published does indeed shine a light on their validity. Nobody who had incontrovertible data backed evidence would be sitting on it. | |||
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"https://www.bhf.org.uk/-/media/files/research/heart-statistics/bhf-cvd-statistics---uk-factsheet.pdf These numbers go up every year. And not because of the vaccine. These numbers show why you may know someone that has had a heart attack recently. These numbers show why your health , diet and exercise are why you are more likely to have a heart attack , not the vaccine. " Yes it's a shame that there is not more made of diet, well being lifestyle choices etc. But they companies like McDonald's, just eat, deliveroo wouldn't be making any money selling healthy soups and salads pulses and grains. | |||
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"The best evidence to suggest that it’s Covid rather than the vaccines that are causing these deaths comes from Australia Australia, due to it’s isolation/ border control , was able to do a natural experiment: 2021, vax nearly all adults, no Covid . 2022, let Covid loose huge increase in cardiac deaths/ excess mortality. Not saying vaccine injury doesn’t happen but the risk is very small compared to a virus that attacks blood vessels. Just google a graph of excess deaths in Australia 2019 to present date- it is quite remarkable If nearly all adults were vacinnated in 2021, then how would they determine whether it was Covid that caused the deaths and not the vacinne? Or vice versa? Isn't the winner the one who shouts loudest most often? But yes it's an important question. And each side is being asked to believe the other with very little evidence to back up either argument.... Or...to put it another.. Just as much evidence to support both sides of the argument I suspect the tide is turning simply because the evidence in more recent months suggests the long term effects of Covid have to be taken serious particularly for children. It is probably not a coincidence the the German health minister who stated that Covid causes profound suppression of the immune system also attended Davos where there very stringent Covid measures. If you had Covid you were not allowed in. Its is very much a case of watch this space but you have got the ask the question why a senior figure in government would make such a statement- I expect more similar statements from senior health officials in the coming months And as long as they have rigorous and unbiased data to back up their claims and address peoples genuine concerns that should be fine. Just making pronouncements because "who's queen?" (thank you miranda Richardson) doesn't cut the mustard. A considerable number of studies have been building over the last year or so. The fact that they're not generally known doesn't say anything about their validity. Well.. I'd dispute that. If they had "good" conclusions they would surely have been plastered everywhere... Why wouldn't they? The fact studies and conslusions exist (which may be a year out of date) but not published does indeed shine a light on their validity. Nobody who had incontrovertible data backed evidence would be sitting on it. " They don't sit on it. It is circulated in the way scientific papers usually are. How many scientific papers get into the media usually? A tiny proportion. On what basis do they get into the paper? Journalistic bases. | |||
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"The best evidence to suggest that it’s Covid rather than the vaccines that are causing these deaths comes from Australia Australia, due to it’s isolation/ border control , was able to do a natural experiment: 2021, vax nearly all adults, no Covid . 2022, let Covid loose huge increase in cardiac deaths/ excess mortality. Not saying vaccine injury doesn’t happen but the risk is very small compared to a virus that attacks blood vessels. Just google a graph of excess deaths in Australia 2019 to present date- it is quite remarkable If nearly all adults were vacinnated in 2021, then how would they determine whether it was Covid that caused the deaths and not the vacinne? Or vice versa? Isn't the winner the one who shouts loudest most often? But yes it's an important question. And each side is being asked to believe the other with very little evidence to back up either argument.... Or...to put it another.. Just as much evidence to support both sides of the argument I suspect the tide is turning simply because the evidence in more recent months suggests the long term effects of Covid have to be taken serious particularly for children. It is probably not a coincidence the the German health minister who stated that Covid causes profound suppression of the immune system also attended Davos where there very stringent Covid measures. If you had Covid you were not allowed in. Its is very much a case of watch this space but you have got the ask the question why a senior figure in government would make such a statement- I expect more similar statements from senior health officials in the coming months And as long as they have rigorous and unbiased data to back up their claims and address peoples genuine concerns that should be fine. Just making pronouncements because "who's queen?" (thank you miranda Richardson) doesn't cut the mustard. A considerable number of studies have been building over the last year or so. The fact that they're not generally known doesn't say anything about their validity. Well.. I'd dispute that. If they had "good" conclusions they would surely have been plastered everywhere... Why wouldn't they? The fact studies and conslusions exist (which may be a year out of date) but not published does indeed shine a light on their validity. Nobody who had incontrovertible data backed evidence would be sitting on it. They don't sit on it. It is circulated in the way scientific papers usually are. How many scientific papers get into the media usually? A tiny proportion. On what basis do they get into the paper? Journalistic bases." or YT  | |||
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"The best evidence to suggest that it’s Covid rather than the vaccines that are causing these deaths comes from Australia Australia, due to it’s isolation/ border control , was able to do a natural experiment: 2021, vax nearly all adults, no Covid . 2022, let Covid loose huge increase in cardiac deaths/ excess mortality. Not saying vaccine injury doesn’t happen but the risk is very small compared to a virus that attacks blood vessels. Just google a graph of excess deaths in Australia 2019 to present date- it is quite remarkable If nearly all adults were vacinnated in 2021, then how would they determine whether it was Covid that caused the deaths and not the vacinne? Or vice versa? Isn't the winner the one who shouts loudest most often? But yes it's an important question. And each side is being asked to believe the other with very little evidence to back up either argument.... Or...to put it another.. Just as much evidence to support both sides of the argument I suspect the tide is turning simply because the evidence in more recent months suggests the long term effects of Covid have to be taken serious particularly for children. It is probably not a coincidence the the German health minister who stated that Covid causes profound suppression of the immune system also attended Davos where there very stringent Covid measures. If you had Covid you were not allowed in. Its is very much a case of watch this space but you have got the ask the question why a senior figure in government would make such a statement- I expect more similar statements from senior health officials in the coming months And as long as they have rigorous and unbiased data to back up their claims and address peoples genuine concerns that should be fine. Just making pronouncements because "who's queen?" (thank you miranda Richardson) doesn't cut the mustard. A considerable number of studies have been building over the last year or so. The fact that they're not generally known doesn't say anything about their validity. Well.. I'd dispute that. If they had "good" conclusions they would surely have been plastered everywhere... Why wouldn't they? The fact studies and conslusions exist (which may be a year out of date) but not published does indeed shine a light on their validity. Nobody who had incontrovertible data backed evidence would be sitting on it. They don't sit on it. It is circulated in the way scientific papers usually are. How many scientific papers get into the media usually? A tiny proportion. On what basis do they get into the paper? Journalistic bases.or YT "
I'm not counting that as media | |||
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"The best evidence to suggest that it’s Covid rather than the vaccines that are causing these deaths comes from Australia Australia, due to it’s isolation/ border control , was able to do a natural experiment: 2021, vax nearly all adults, no Covid . 2022, let Covid loose huge increase in cardiac deaths/ excess mortality. Not saying vaccine injury doesn’t happen but the risk is very small compared to a virus that attacks blood vessels. Just google a graph of excess deaths in Australia 2019 to present date- it is quite remarkable If nearly all adults were vacinnated in 2021, then how would they determine whether it was Covid that caused the deaths and not the vacinne? Or vice versa? Isn't the winner the one who shouts loudest most often? But yes it's an important question. And each side is being asked to believe the other with very little evidence to back up either argument.... Or...to put it another.. Just as much evidence to support both sides of the argument I suspect the tide is turning simply because the evidence in more recent months suggests the long term effects of Covid have to be taken serious particularly for children. It is probably not a coincidence the the German health minister who stated that Covid causes profound suppression of the immune system also attended Davos where there very stringent Covid measures. If you had Covid you were not allowed in. Its is very much a case of watch this space but you have got the ask the question why a senior figure in government would make such a statement- I expect more similar statements from senior health officials in the coming months And as long as they have rigorous and unbiased data to back up their claims and address peoples genuine concerns that should be fine. Just making pronouncements because "who's queen?" (thank you miranda Richardson) doesn't cut the mustard. A considerable number of studies have been building over the last year or so. The fact that they're not generally known doesn't say anything about their validity. Well.. I'd dispute that. If they had "good" conclusions they would surely have been plastered everywhere... Why wouldn't they? The fact studies and conslusions exist (which may be a year out of date) but not published does indeed shine a light on their validity. Nobody who had incontrovertible data backed evidence would be sitting on it. They don't sit on it. It is circulated in the way scientific papers usually are. How many scientific papers get into the media usually? A tiny proportion. On what basis do they get into the paper? Journalistic bases." So you're of the opinion. Given the last 2 years. That a scientific paper that showed the effect of covid and covid vaccines on cardiac incidents would not find its way into mainstream? | |||
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"The best evidence to suggest that it’s Covid rather than the vaccines that are causing these deaths comes from Australia Australia, due to it’s isolation/ border control , was able to do a natural experiment: 2021, vax nearly all adults, no Covid . 2022, let Covid loose huge increase in cardiac deaths/ excess mortality. Not saying vaccine injury doesn’t happen but the risk is very small compared to a virus that attacks blood vessels. Just google a graph of excess deaths in Australia 2019 to present date- it is quite remarkable If nearly all adults were vacinnated in 2021, then how would they determine whether it was Covid that caused the deaths and not the vacinne? Or vice versa? Isn't the winner the one who shouts loudest most often? But yes it's an important question. And each side is being asked to believe the other with very little evidence to back up either argument.... Or...to put it another.. Just as much evidence to support both sides of the argument I suspect the tide is turning simply because the evidence in more recent months suggests the long term effects of Covid have to be taken serious particularly for children. It is probably not a coincidence the the German health minister who stated that Covid causes profound suppression of the immune system also attended Davos where there very stringent Covid measures. If you had Covid you were not allowed in. Its is very much a case of watch this space but you have got the ask the question why a senior figure in government would make such a statement- I expect more similar statements from senior health officials in the coming months And as long as they have rigorous and unbiased data to back up their claims and address peoples genuine concerns that should be fine. Just making pronouncements because "who's queen?" (thank you miranda Richardson) doesn't cut the mustard. A considerable number of studies have been building over the last year or so. The fact that they're not generally known doesn't say anything about their validity. Well.. I'd dispute that. If they had "good" conclusions they would surely have been plastered everywhere... Why wouldn't they? The fact studies and conslusions exist (which may be a year out of date) but not published does indeed shine a light on their validity. Nobody who had incontrovertible data backed evidence would be sitting on it. They don't sit on it. It is circulated in the way scientific papers usually are. How many scientific papers get into the media usually? A tiny proportion. On what basis do they get into the paper? Journalistic bases. So you're of the opinion. Given the last 2 years. That a scientific paper that showed the effect of covid and covid vaccines on cardiac incidents would not find its way into mainstream? " I've seen several such papers  | |||
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"You're wasting your time, nothing but jab zealots on here. Says someone with colossal confirmation bias and/or poor reading/comprehension skills. Laughable stupidity. Not exactly making yourself look good either. There are better ways to engage in a discussion rather. Everyone is entitles to an opinion, but anyone of here that raises questions about injuries etc are always attacked. Next I guess people will start calling the people who have had side effects/ injures by calling them Anti Vaxxers...... Funny....people having the vaccine and then having reactions and when raising concerns, they are now Anti Vaxxers, as reported on the BBC. The same BBC that is funder by Bill Gates. The BBC is principally funded through the licence fee paid by UK households. In 2021/22 this generated £3.8bn. In addition, the BBC's commercial operations, such as BBC Studios, provide supplementary income. In 2021/22, the BBC made £1.7bn through its commercial operations. Winston " https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaaction/about/funding | |||
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"You're wasting your time, nothing but jab zealots on here. Says someone with colossal confirmation bias and/or poor reading/comprehension skills. Laughable stupidity. Not exactly making yourself look good either. There are better ways to engage in a discussion rather. Everyone is entitles to an opinion, but anyone of here that raises questions about injuries etc are always attacked. Next I guess people will start calling the people who have had side effects/ injures by calling them Anti Vaxxers...... Funny....people having the vaccine and then having reactions and when raising concerns, they are now Anti Vaxxers, as reported on the BBC. The same BBC that is funder by Bill Gates. BBC funder by bill Gates! Well everyday is a school day. I always thought it was a license fee. " Gates has been paying for the BBC? Bugger! Who's been taking that money I've kept paying every year then? Must be some scam run by the guy at the post office, telling me that I've got to give him money for a "tv licence" | |||
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"You're wasting your time, nothing but jab zealots on here. Says someone with colossal confirmation bias and/or poor reading/comprehension skills. Laughable stupidity. Not exactly making yourself look good either. There are better ways to engage in a discussion rather. Everyone is entitles to an opinion, but anyone of here that raises questions about injuries etc are always attacked. Next I guess people will start calling the people who have had side effects/ injures by calling them Anti Vaxxers...... Funny....people having the vaccine and then having reactions and when raising concerns, they are now Anti Vaxxers, as reported on the BBC. The same BBC that is funder by Bill Gates. The BBC is principally funded through the licence fee paid by UK households. In 2021/22 this generated £3.8bn. In addition, the BBC's commercial operations, such as BBC Studios, provide supplementary income. In 2021/22, the BBC made £1.7bn through its commercial operations. Winston https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaaction/about/funding" Oh I see. So the Bill Gates foundation gave the BBC some money (a minority of their funding) therefore lizard people etc. | |||
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"Whatever the reason for the increased death levels, even if its due to the vaccines, it will never be formally admitted as the reason. Too much money at stake and too many people will be discredited if it is the reason and the truth comes out." So... If it's not the vaccine it'll never be admitted either? That is what you said | |||
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"Whatever the reason for the increased death levels, even if its due to the vaccines, it will never be formally admitted as the reason. Too much money at stake and too many people will be discredited if it is the reason and the truth comes out." Agreed. Meanwhile we know it’s not something that is affecting the unvaccinated disproportionately because if it was it’d be headline news | |||
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"You're wasting your time, nothing but jab zealots on here. Says someone with colossal confirmation bias and/or poor reading/comprehension skills. Laughable stupidity. Not exactly making yourself look good either. There are better ways to engage in a discussion rather. Everyone is entitles to an opinion, but anyone of here that raises questions about injuries etc are always attacked. Next I guess people will start calling the people who have had side effects/ injures by calling them Anti Vaxxers...... Funny....people having the vaccine and then having reactions and when raising concerns, they are now Anti Vaxxers, as reported on the BBC. The same BBC that is funder by Bill Gates. The BBC is principally funded through the licence fee paid by UK households. In 2021/22 this generated £3.8bn. In addition, the BBC's commercial operations, such as BBC Studios, provide supplementary income. In 2021/22, the BBC made £1.7bn through its commercial operations. Winston https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaaction/about/funding" Thanks for sharing that. Every dya is a school day. I wasn't aware that BBC took such funding. As for Bill gated foundation providing 1.5m pounds. I'm not sure out of an annual revenue into billions that 1.5m is going to make much difference but it is a good point you make and worth knowing for sure. | |||
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"The best evidence to suggest that it’s Covid rather than the vaccines that are causing these deaths comes from Australia Australia, due to it’s isolation/ border control , was able to do a natural experiment: 2021, vax nearly all adults, no Covid . 2022, let Covid loose huge increase in cardiac deaths/ excess mortality. Not saying vaccine injury doesn’t happen but the risk is very small compared to a virus that attacks blood vessels. Just google a graph of excess deaths in Australia 2019 to present date- it is quite remarkable " I would think that the United States might also be a good source of information to compare vaxxed versus unvaxxed deaths, by checking the excess death rates for red versus blue states. Blue states having a much higher vaccine take up level than red states. Note though that some correction could be needed for the effect of relative population density on covid spread - I remember that Wyoming for example had only about 10 covid deaths at the time that it was 10,000 in New York city - people in New York probably living 1000 times more packed together than they do in Wyoming... | |||
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"Whatever the reason for the increased death levels, even if its due to the vaccines, it will never be formally admitted as the reason. Too much money at stake and too many people will be discredited if it is the reason and the truth comes out. Agreed. Meanwhile we know it’s not something that is affecting the unvaccinated disproportionately because if it was it’d be headline news" Quite possibly. Which is why it's important to get the risk factors out there (and benefits for older and at risk and vulnerable folks and possibly even younger ones too) and allow folks to make their own choices. | |||
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"You're wasting your time, nothing but jab zealots on here. Says someone with colossal confirmation bias and/or poor reading/comprehension skills. Laughable stupidity. Not exactly making yourself look good either. There are better ways to engage in a discussion rather. Everyone is entitles to an opinion, but anyone of here that raises questions about injuries etc are always attacked. Next I guess people will start calling the people who have had side effects/ injures by calling them Anti Vaxxers...... Funny....people having the vaccine and then having reactions and when raising concerns, they are now Anti Vaxxers, as reported on the BBC. The same BBC that is funder by Bill Gates. The BBC is principally funded through the licence fee paid by UK households. In 2021/22 this generated £3.8bn. In addition, the BBC's commercial operations, such as BBC Studios, provide supplementary income. In 2021/22, the BBC made £1.7bn through its commercial operations. Winston https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaaction/about/funding Thanks for sharing that. Every dya is a school day. I wasn't aware that BBC took such funding. As for Bill gated foundation providing 1.5m pounds. I'm not sure out of an annual revenue into billions that 1.5m is going to make much difference but it is a good point you make and worth knowing for sure. " mediaction appears to be BBC's charitable arm. Rather than the day to day company. | |||
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"You're wasting your time, nothing but jab zealots on here. Says someone with colossal confirmation bias and/or poor reading/comprehension skills. Laughable stupidity. Not exactly making yourself look good either. There are better ways to engage in a discussion rather. Everyone is entitles to an opinion, but anyone of here that raises questions about injuries etc are always attacked. Next I guess people will start calling the people who have had side effects/ injures by calling them Anti Vaxxers...... Funny....people having the vaccine and then having reactions and when raising concerns, they are now Anti Vaxxers, as reported on the BBC. The same BBC that is funder by Bill Gates. The BBC is principally funded through the licence fee paid by UK households. In 2021/22 this generated £3.8bn. In addition, the BBC's commercial operations, such as BBC Studios, provide supplementary income. In 2021/22, the BBC made £1.7bn through its commercial operations. Winston https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaaction/about/funding" Embarrassing..... BBC Media Action is the BBC's charity. Not the actual BBC. Details on how the BBC is funded within the very post you quoted and totally ignored. Are you saying you can't tell the difference between a charity and a corporation? Winston | |||
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"Whatever the reason for the increased death levels, even if its due to the vaccines, it will never be formally admitted as the reason. Too much money at stake and too many people will be discredited if it is the reason and the truth comes out. Agreed. Meanwhile we know it’s not something that is affecting the unvaccinated disproportionately because if it was it’d be headline news Quite possibly. Which is why it's important to get the risk factors out there (and benefits for older and at risk and vulnerable folks and possibly even younger ones too) and allow folks to make their own choices. " more likely is we don't have good enough data to marry up vaccine status and deaths. Irrc we found out how patchy NHS data is when we wanted to look at it in 2020 (albwoy source here is Cummings). I will agree analysis is always good. But it needs to start without prejudice. And needs to be clearly explained. If the last few years show anything it's how poorly people understand anything scientific. Hell, there's been a number of threads here recently where people have misunderstood fairly straight forward information. Especially when they want to see bad news. | |||
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"You're wasting your time, nothing but jab zealots on here. Says someone with colossal confirmation bias and/or poor reading/comprehension skills. Laughable stupidity. Not exactly making yourself look good either. There are better ways to engage in a discussion rather. Everyone is entitles to an opinion, but anyone of here that raises questions about injuries etc are always attacked. Next I guess people will start calling the people who have had side effects/ injures by calling them Anti Vaxxers...... Funny....people having the vaccine and then having reactions and when raising concerns, they are now Anti Vaxxers, as reported on the BBC. The same BBC that is funder by Bill Gates. The BBC is principally funded through the licence fee paid by UK households. In 2021/22 this generated £3.8bn. In addition, the BBC's commercial operations, such as BBC Studios, provide supplementary income. In 2021/22, the BBC made £1.7bn through its commercial operations. Winston https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaaction/about/funding Thanks for sharing that. Every dya is a school day. I wasn't aware that BBC took such funding. As for Bill gated foundation providing 1.5m pounds. I'm not sure out of an annual revenue into billions that 1.5m is going to make much difference but it is a good point you make and worth knowing for sure. " The BBC don't take funding from Bill Gates, it's wholly funded by the likes of you and I. BBC Media is the BBC's charity, which the Gates Foundation has contributed to. Winston | |||
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"Whatever the reason for the increased death levels, even if its due to the vaccines, it will never be formally admitted as the reason. Too much money at stake and too many people will be discredited if it is the reason and the truth comes out. Agreed. Meanwhile we know it’s not something that is affecting the unvaccinated disproportionately because if it was it’d be headline news Quite possibly. Which is why it's important to get the risk factors out there (and benefits for older and at risk and vulnerable folks and possibly even younger ones too) and allow folks to make their own choices. more likely is we don't have good enough data to marry up vaccine status and deaths. Irrc we found out how patchy NHS data is when we wanted to look at it in 2020 (albwoy source here is Cummings). I will agree analysis is always good. But it needs to start without prejudice. And needs to be clearly explained. If the last few years show anything it's how poorly people understand anything scientific. Hell, there's been a number of threads here recently where people have misunderstood fairly straight forward information. Especially when they want to see bad news. " Tbh it's a perfect lace for tech to help. An app... Hell we already have an nhs app which has our age, weight, heart condition etc on it... A few simple questions.. A calculation..spin the wheels.... If you have this vaccine... Your chances of catching xx are this. Your chances of getting seriously ill are this. Your chances of dying are this... Your risk of serious side effects are this... Book your appointment now or ask further questions now...or Decline for xxx months. Thank you come again. | |||
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"You're wasting your time, nothing but jab zealots on here. Says someone with colossal confirmation bias and/or poor reading/comprehension skills. Laughable stupidity. Not exactly making yourself look good either. There are better ways to engage in a discussion rather. Everyone is entitles to an opinion, but anyone of here that raises questions about injuries etc are always attacked. Next I guess people will start calling the people who have had side effects/ injures by calling them Anti Vaxxers...... Funny....people having the vaccine and then having reactions and when raising concerns, they are now Anti Vaxxers, as reported on the BBC. The same BBC that is funder by Bill Gates. The BBC is principally funded through the licence fee paid by UK households. In 2021/22 this generated £3.8bn. In addition, the BBC's commercial operations, such as BBC Studios, provide supplementary income. In 2021/22, the BBC made £1.7bn through its commercial operations. Winston https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaaction/about/funding Thanks for sharing that. Every dya is a school day. I wasn't aware that BBC took such funding. As for Bill gated foundation providing 1.5m pounds. I'm not sure out of an annual revenue into billions that 1.5m is going to make much difference but it is a good point you make and worth knowing for sure. The BBC don't take funding from Bill Gates, it's wholly funded by the likes of you and I. BBC Media is the BBC's charity, which the Gates Foundation has contributed to. Winston" You know that thing... When you trust what people say... | |||
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"Whatever the reason for the increased death levels, even if its due to the vaccines, it will never be formally admitted as the reason. Too much money at stake and too many people will be discredited if it is the reason and the truth comes out. Agreed. Meanwhile we know it’s not something that is affecting the unvaccinated disproportionately because if it was it’d be headline news Quite possibly. Which is why it's important to get the risk factors out there (and benefits for older and at risk and vulnerable folks and possibly even younger ones too) and allow folks to make their own choices. more likely is we don't have good enough data to marry up vaccine status and deaths. Irrc we found out how patchy NHS data is when we wanted to look at it in 2020 (albwoy source here is Cummings). I will agree analysis is always good. But it needs to start without prejudice. And needs to be clearly explained. If the last few years show anything it's how poorly people understand anything scientific. Hell, there's been a number of threads here recently where people have misunderstood fairly straight forward information. Especially when they want to see bad news. Tbh it's a perfect lace for tech to help. An app... Hell we already have an nhs app which has our age, weight, heart condition etc on it... A few simple questions.. A calculation..spin the wheels.... If you have this vaccine... Your chances of catching xx are this. Your chances of getting seriously ill are this. Your chances of dying are this... Your risk of serious side effects are this... Book your appointment now or ask further questions now...or Decline for xxx months. Thank you come again. " that's lots of data to be split up. The COVID studies that have resurfaced had large confidence intervals. And that was for "people" not gender, nor age, let alone pre conditions and health. Factor in that all those numbers vary by vaccines I'd imagine. And there may be a degree of self selection at younger ages which could skew results. I get what you want, I do. I don't think what you are asking for is as simple as you'd like. | |||
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"You're wasting your time, nothing but jab zealots on here. Says someone with colossal confirmation bias and/or poor reading/comprehension skills. Laughable stupidity. Not exactly making yourself look good either. There are better ways to engage in a discussion rather. Everyone is entitles to an opinion, but anyone of here that raises questions about injuries etc are always attacked. Next I guess people will start calling the people who have had side effects/ injures by calling them Anti Vaxxers...... Funny....people having the vaccine and then having reactions and when raising concerns, they are now Anti Vaxxers, as reported on the BBC. The same BBC that is funder by Bill Gates. The BBC is principally funded through the licence fee paid by UK households. In 2021/22 this generated £3.8bn. In addition, the BBC's commercial operations, such as BBC Studios, provide supplementary income. In 2021/22, the BBC made £1.7bn through its commercial operations. Winston https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaaction/about/funding Thanks for sharing that. Every dya is a school day. I wasn't aware that BBC took such funding. As for Bill gated foundation providing 1.5m pounds. I'm not sure out of an annual revenue into billions that 1.5m is going to make much difference but it is a good point you make and worth knowing for sure. The BBC don't take funding from Bill Gates, it's wholly funded by the likes of you and I. BBC Media is the BBC's charity, which the Gates Foundation has contributed to. Winston You know that thing... When you trust what people say... " It's not as daft as claiming something is something when it's actually not even close. Winston | |||
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"Whatever the reason for the increased death levels, even if its due to the vaccines, it will never be formally admitted as the reason. Too much money at stake and too many people will be discredited if it is the reason and the truth comes out. Agreed. Meanwhile we know it’s not something that is affecting the unvaccinated disproportionately because if it was it’d be headline news Quite possibly. Which is why it's important to get the risk factors out there (and benefits for older and at risk and vulnerable folks and possibly even younger ones too) and allow folks to make their own choices. more likely is we don't have good enough data to marry up vaccine status and deaths. Irrc we found out how patchy NHS data is when we wanted to look at it in 2020 (albwoy source here is Cummings). I will agree analysis is always good. But it needs to start without prejudice. And needs to be clearly explained. If the last few years show anything it's how poorly people understand anything scientific. Hell, there's been a number of threads here recently where people have misunderstood fairly straight forward information. Especially when they want to see bad news. Tbh it's a perfect lace for tech to help. An app... Hell we already have an nhs app which has our age, weight, heart condition etc on it... A few simple questions.. A calculation..spin the wheels.... If you have this vaccine... Your chances of catching xx are this. Your chances of getting seriously ill are this. Your chances of dying are this... Your risk of serious side effects are this... Book your appointment now or ask further questions now...or Decline for xxx months. Thank you come again. " You want this for a disease that's three years old? You do know science isn't magic, right? That it's the best we know until we learn better? Anyway, we all know it wouldn't help. It'd be immediately painted as a tool of big pharma to poison the free thinkers with the jibby jab etc | |||
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"Whatever the reason for the increased death levels, even if its due to the vaccines, it will never be formally admitted as the reason. Too much money at stake and too many people will be discredited if it is the reason and the truth comes out. Agreed. Meanwhile we know it’s not something that is affecting the unvaccinated disproportionately because if it was it’d be headline news Quite possibly. Which is why it's important to get the risk factors out there (and benefits for older and at risk and vulnerable folks and possibly even younger ones too) and allow folks to make their own choices. more likely is we don't have good enough data to marry up vaccine status and deaths. Irrc we found out how patchy NHS data is when we wanted to look at it in 2020 (albwoy source here is Cummings). I will agree analysis is always good. But it needs to start without prejudice. And needs to be clearly explained. If the last few years show anything it's how poorly people understand anything scientific. Hell, there's been a number of threads here recently where people have misunderstood fairly straight forward information. Especially when they want to see bad news. Tbh it's a perfect lace for tech to help. An app... Hell we already have an nhs app which has our age, weight, heart condition etc on it... A few simple questions.. A calculation..spin the wheels.... If you have this vaccine... Your chances of catching xx are this. Your chances of getting seriously ill are this. Your chances of dying are this... Your risk of serious side effects are this... Book your appointment now or ask further questions now...or Decline for xxx months. Thank you come again. that's lots of data to be split up. The COVID studies that have resurfaced had large confidence intervals. And that was for "people" not gender, nor age, let alone pre conditions and health. Factor in that all those numbers vary by vaccines I'd imagine. And there may be a degree of self selection at younger ages which could skew results. I get what you want, I do. I don't think what you are asking for is as simple as you'd like. " Give me a couple of billion and I'll get it done in 8 weeks. Seriously though. When you go and see your gp (OK already it has the sound of fantasy about it), bear with me. When you go and see your gp and say... "Dr, I'm a bit concerned about taking the latest covid vaccine, can you please advise me, based on my personal health what the risks and benefits are?" and they will say.. "yes of course. Have it."... You mean to say they don't have the data to say... "ah I see you are a male, of 55 years, grossly over weigh and with a family history of heart conditions and you're taking this medication and based on that... I suggest it's a good idea for you to have the vaccine / it doesn't help your risk profile to have the vaccine".... I mean if not... Wtf do the Dr's go on to provide any meaningful advice? | |||
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"Whatever the reason for the increased death levels, even if its due to the vaccines, it will never be formally admitted as the reason. Too much money at stake and too many people will be discredited if it is the reason and the truth comes out. Agreed. Meanwhile we know it’s not something that is affecting the unvaccinated disproportionately because if it was it’d be headline news Quite possibly. Which is why it's important to get the risk factors out there (and benefits for older and at risk and vulnerable folks and possibly even younger ones too) and allow folks to make their own choices. more likely is we don't have good enough data to marry up vaccine status and deaths. Irrc we found out how patchy NHS data is when we wanted to look at it in 2020 (albwoy source here is Cummings). I will agree analysis is always good. But it needs to start without prejudice. And needs to be clearly explained. If the last few years show anything it's how poorly people understand anything scientific. Hell, there's been a number of threads here recently where people have misunderstood fairly straight forward information. Especially when they want to see bad news. Tbh it's a perfect lace for tech to help. An app... Hell we already have an nhs app which has our age, weight, heart condition etc on it... A few simple questions.. A calculation..spin the wheels.... If you have this vaccine... Your chances of catching xx are this. Your chances of getting seriously ill are this. Your chances of dying are this... Your risk of serious side effects are this... Book your appointment now or ask further questions now...or Decline for xxx months. Thank you come again. You want this for a disease that's three years old? You do know science isn't magic, right? That it's the best we know until we learn better? Anyway, we all know it wouldn't help. It'd be immediately painted as a tool of big pharma to poison the free thinkers with the jibby jab etc" That holds no water at all. In 3 years they've developed vaccines that we are told are needed for all. If they are able to make that judgement they have the data. If they have the data they can drop it in an app. It's just a formula upon data which already exists. It's not rocket science. The app already exists... The nhs app. Its not as hard as that at all. | |||
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"Whatever the reason for the increased death levels, even if its due to the vaccines, it will never be formally admitted as the reason. Too much money at stake and too many people will be discredited if it is the reason and the truth comes out. Agreed. Meanwhile we know it’s not something that is affecting the unvaccinated disproportionately because if it was it’d be headline news Quite possibly. Which is why it's important to get the risk factors out there (and benefits for older and at risk and vulnerable folks and possibly even younger ones too) and allow folks to make their own choices. more likely is we don't have good enough data to marry up vaccine status and deaths. Irrc we found out how patchy NHS data is when we wanted to look at it in 2020 (albwoy source here is Cummings). I will agree analysis is always good. But it needs to start without prejudice. And needs to be clearly explained. If the last few years show anything it's how poorly people understand anything scientific. Hell, there's been a number of threads here recently where people have misunderstood fairly straight forward information. Especially when they want to see bad news. Tbh it's a perfect lace for tech to help. An app... Hell we already have an nhs app which has our age, weight, heart condition etc on it... A few simple questions.. A calculation..spin the wheels.... If you have this vaccine... Your chances of catching xx are this. Your chances of getting seriously ill are this. Your chances of dying are this... Your risk of serious side effects are this... Book your appointment now or ask further questions now...or Decline for xxx months. Thank you come again. " And you’d be happy imputing all your medical data into an app run by the government? Why not put your bank account,energy bills,car insurance,car tax,ect into an app with a tracking system so the government will know what you spend your money on how healthy you are,any underlying condition and everywhere you go the same government that can cut off your bank account because you’ve reached your carbon limit sounds crazy I know but…….CBDC, Digital IDs(government consultation online how many knew that?) but it’s all for OUR own good…. | |||
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"Whatever the reason for the increased death levels, even if its due to the vaccines, it will never be formally admitted as the reason. Too much money at stake and too many people will be discredited if it is the reason and the truth comes out. Agreed. Meanwhile we know it’s not something that is affecting the unvaccinated disproportionately because if it was it’d be headline news Quite possibly. Which is why it's important to get the risk factors out there (and benefits for older and at risk and vulnerable folks and possibly even younger ones too) and allow folks to make their own choices. more likely is we don't have good enough data to marry up vaccine status and deaths. Irrc we found out how patchy NHS data is when we wanted to look at it in 2020 (albwoy source here is Cummings). I will agree analysis is always good. But it needs to start without prejudice. And needs to be clearly explained. If the last few years show anything it's how poorly people understand anything scientific. Hell, there's been a number of threads here recently where people have misunderstood fairly straight forward information. Especially when they want to see bad news. Tbh it's a perfect lace for tech to help. An app... Hell we already have an nhs app which has our age, weight, heart condition etc on it... A few simple questions.. A calculation..spin the wheels.... If you have this vaccine... Your chances of catching xx are this. Your chances of getting seriously ill are this. Your chances of dying are this... Your risk of serious side effects are this... Book your appointment now or ask further questions now...or Decline for xxx months. Thank you come again. that's lots of data to be split up. The COVID studies that have resurfaced had large confidence intervals. And that was for "people" not gender, nor age, let alone pre conditions and health. Factor in that all those numbers vary by vaccines I'd imagine. And there may be a degree of self selection at younger ages which could skew results. I get what you want, I do. I don't think what you are asking for is as simple as you'd like. Give me a couple of billion and I'll get it done in 8 weeks. Seriously though. When you go and see your gp (OK already it has the sound of fantasy about it), bear with me. When you go and see your gp and say... "Dr, I'm a bit concerned about taking the latest covid vaccine, can you please advise me, based on my personal health what the risks and benefits are?" and they will say.. "yes of course. Have it."... You mean to say they don't have the data to say... "ah I see you are a male, of 55 years, grossly over weigh and with a family history of heart conditions and you're taking this medication and based on that... I suggest it's a good idea for you to have the vaccine / it doesn't help your risk profile to have the vaccine".... I mean if not... Wtf do the Dr's go on to provide any meaningful advice? " However many billions will give people the means to investigate it. Which won't happen immediately. There is data, it's just not that precise. And the situation continues to change as Covid evolves. Confirmed serious side effects of vaccines are extremely rare. The vaccines reduce acute complications of Covid, including death. There are certain groups at higher risk of acute complications of Covid. There's not some sort of actuarial formula. And by definition we can't know what any Covid infection will do to you 5, 10, 30 years down the line. And post viral complications can pop up years or decades later. I think you're expecting magic. Even if you gave the subject trillions, the studies take time, man power, etc. At the moment we have best estimates based on the data we have. Which are often generalities not specifics. | |||
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"Whatever the reason for the increased death levels, even if its due to the vaccines, it will never be formally admitted as the reason. Too much money at stake and too many people will be discredited if it is the reason and the truth comes out. Agreed. Meanwhile we know it’s not something that is affecting the unvaccinated disproportionately because if it was it’d be headline news Quite possibly. Which is why it's important to get the risk factors out there (and benefits for older and at risk and vulnerable folks and possibly even younger ones too) and allow folks to make their own choices. more likely is we don't have good enough data to marry up vaccine status and deaths. Irrc we found out how patchy NHS data is when we wanted to look at it in 2020 (albwoy source here is Cummings). I will agree analysis is always good. But it needs to start without prejudice. And needs to be clearly explained. If the last few years show anything it's how poorly people understand anything scientific. Hell, there's been a number of threads here recently where people have misunderstood fairly straight forward information. Especially when they want to see bad news. Tbh it's a perfect lace for tech to help. An app... Hell we already have an nhs app which has our age, weight, heart condition etc on it... A few simple questions.. A calculation..spin the wheels.... If you have this vaccine... Your chances of catching xx are this. Your chances of getting seriously ill are this. Your chances of dying are this... Your risk of serious side effects are this... Book your appointment now or ask further questions now...or Decline for xxx months. Thank you come again. that's lots of data to be split up. The COVID studies that have resurfaced had large confidence intervals. And that was for "people" not gender, nor age, let alone pre conditions and health. Factor in that all those numbers vary by vaccines I'd imagine. And there may be a degree of self selection at younger ages which could skew results. I get what you want, I do. I don't think what you are asking for is as simple as you'd like. Give me a couple of billion and I'll get it done in 8 weeks. Seriously though. When you go and see your gp (OK already it has the sound of fantasy about it), bear with me. When you go and see your gp and say... "Dr, I'm a bit concerned about taking the latest covid vaccine, can you please advise me, based on my personal health what the risks and benefits are?" and they will say.. "yes of course. Have it."... You mean to say they don't have the data to say... "ah I see you are a male, of 55 years, grossly over weigh and with a family history of heart conditions and you're taking this medication and based on that... I suggest it's a good idea for you to have the vaccine / it doesn't help your risk profile to have the vaccine".... I mean if not... Wtf do the Dr's go on to provide any meaningful advice? However many billions will give people the means to investigate it. Which won't happen immediately. There is data, it's just not that precise. And the situation continues to change as Covid evolves. Confirmed serious side effects of vaccines are extremely rare. The vaccines reduce acute complications of Covid, including death. There are certain groups at higher risk of acute complications of Covid. There's not some sort of actuarial formula. And by definition we can't know what any Covid infection will do to you 5, 10, 30 years down the line. And post viral complications can pop up years or decades later. I think you're expecting magic. Even if you gave the subject trillions, the studies take time, man power, etc. At the moment we have best estimates based on the data we have. Which are often generalities not specifics." Nope I'm just suggesting a small tech investment would help answer a lot of individual questions. As for the apparent lack of quality data to support risk analysis. Find it hard then how anyone can suggest it's better for them to have a jab than not if the data is not accurate or available... Anyway..its not the first time we've disagreed so I'll leave it there. | |||
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"You're wasting your time, nothing but jab zealots on here. Says someone with colossal confirmation bias and/or poor reading/comprehension skills. Laughable stupidity. Not exactly making yourself look good either. There are better ways to engage in a discussion rather. Everyone is entitles to an opinion, but anyone of here that raises questions about injuries etc are always attacked. Next I guess people will start calling the people who have had side effects/ injures by calling them Anti Vaxxers...... Funny....people having the vaccine and then having reactions and when raising concerns, they are now Anti Vaxxers, as reported on the BBC. The same BBC that is funder by Bill Gates. " It’s fine having questions but it’s clear not everyone has the comprehension skills to understand the answers.. now back to school, once you have learnt the difference between funder and funded, redo your research on the Bill Gates topic | |||
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"Whatever the reason for the increased death levels, even if its due to the vaccines, it will never be formally admitted as the reason. Too much money at stake and too many people will be discredited if it is the reason and the truth comes out. Agreed. Meanwhile we know it’s not something that is affecting the unvaccinated disproportionately because if it was it’d be headline news Quite possibly. Which is why it's important to get the risk factors out there (and benefits for older and at risk and vulnerable folks and possibly even younger ones too) and allow folks to make their own choices. more likely is we don't have good enough data to marry up vaccine status and deaths. Irrc we found out how patchy NHS data is when we wanted to look at it in 2020 (albwoy source here is Cummings). I will agree analysis is always good. But it needs to start without prejudice. And needs to be clearly explained. If the last few years show anything it's how poorly people understand anything scientific. Hell, there's been a number of threads here recently where people have misunderstood fairly straight forward information. Especially when they want to see bad news. Tbh it's a perfect lace for tech to help. An app... Hell we already have an nhs app which has our age, weight, heart condition etc on it... A few simple questions.. A calculation..spin the wheels.... If you have this vaccine... Your chances of catching xx are this. Your chances of getting seriously ill are this. Your chances of dying are this... Your risk of serious side effects are this... Book your appointment now or ask further questions now...or Decline for xxx months. Thank you come again. that's lots of data to be split up. The COVID studies that have resurfaced had large confidence intervals. And that was for "people" not gender, nor age, let alone pre conditions and health. Factor in that all those numbers vary by vaccines I'd imagine. And there may be a degree of self selection at younger ages which could skew results. I get what you want, I do. I don't think what you are asking for is as simple as you'd like. Give me a couple of billion and I'll get it done in 8 weeks. Seriously though. When you go and see your gp (OK already it has the sound of fantasy about it), bear with me. When you go and see your gp and say... "Dr, I'm a bit concerned about taking the latest covid vaccine, can you please advise me, based on my personal health what the risks and benefits are?" and they will say.. "yes of course. Have it."... You mean to say they don't have the data to say... "ah I see you are a male, of 55 years, grossly over weigh and with a family history of heart conditions and you're taking this medication and based on that... I suggest it's a good idea for you to have the vaccine / it doesn't help your risk profile to have the vaccine".... I mean if not... Wtf do the Dr's go on to provide any meaningful advice? However many billions will give people the means to investigate it. Which won't happen immediately. There is data, it's just not that precise. And the situation continues to change as Covid evolves. Confirmed serious side effects of vaccines are extremely rare. The vaccines reduce acute complications of Covid, including death. There are certain groups at higher risk of acute complications of Covid. There's not some sort of actuarial formula. And by definition we can't know what any Covid infection will do to you 5, 10, 30 years down the line. And post viral complications can pop up years or decades later. I think you're expecting magic. Even if you gave the subject trillions, the studies take time, man power, etc. At the moment we have best estimates based on the data we have. Which are often generalities not specifics. Nope I'm just suggesting a small tech investment would help answer a lot of individual questions. As for the apparent lack of quality data to support risk analysis. Find it hard then how anyone can suggest it's better for them to have a jab than not if the data is not accurate or available... Anyway..its not the first time we've disagreed so I'll leave it there. " Listen …..you harp on about cognitive bias, risk analysis, small investment, actuarial formula…. Most of the studies that people on this thread are quoting or referencing are peer reviewed which means they will have gone through a statistical analysis/ scrutiny far about you or I can even imagine or to quote ‘ The Big Short’ - the figures have been through the ‘quant’ . or several of them. I can accept you wanting to challenge data but if you do so please provide a statistical analysis for your reason for doing so rather than just being non specific | |||
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"You're wasting your time, nothing but jab zealots on here. Says someone with colossal confirmation bias and/or poor reading/comprehension skills. Laughable stupidity. Not exactly making yourself look good either. There are better ways to engage in a discussion rather. Everyone is entitles to an opinion, but anyone of here that raises questions about injuries etc are always attacked. Next I guess people will start calling the people who have had side effects/ injures by calling them Anti Vaxxers...... Funny....people having the vaccine and then having reactions and when raising concerns, they are now Anti Vaxxers, as reported on the BBC. The same BBC that is funder by Bill Gates. It’s fine having questions but it’s clear not everyone has the comprehension skills to understand the answers.. now back to school, once you have learnt the difference between funder and funded, redo your research on the Bill Gates topic" He's done a cursory Google, seen the BBC logo and the words Bill Gates, added 2 + 2 and come up with 57 & 3 quarters. The link posted as "proof" is to BBC media, the Beebs charity and the Bill Gates mention is The Bill Gates Foundation, not Bill Gates personally. Winston | |||
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"Whatever the reason for the increased death levels, even if its due to the vaccines, it will never be formally admitted as the reason. Too much money at stake and too many people will be discredited if it is the reason and the truth comes out. Agreed. Meanwhile we know it’s not something that is affecting the unvaccinated disproportionately because if it was it’d be headline news Quite possibly. Which is why it's important to get the risk factors out there (and benefits for older and at risk and vulnerable folks and possibly even younger ones too) and allow folks to make their own choices. more likely is we don't have good enough data to marry up vaccine status and deaths. Irrc we found out how patchy NHS data is when we wanted to look at it in 2020 (albwoy source here is Cummings). I will agree analysis is always good. But it needs to start without prejudice. And needs to be clearly explained. If the last few years show anything it's how poorly people understand anything scientific. Hell, there's been a number of threads here recently where people have misunderstood fairly straight forward information. Especially when they want to see bad news. Tbh it's a perfect lace for tech to help. An app... Hell we already have an nhs app which has our age, weight, heart condition etc on it... A few simple questions.. A calculation..spin the wheels.... If you have this vaccine... Your chances of catching xx are this. Your chances of getting seriously ill are this. Your chances of dying are this... Your risk of serious side effects are this... Book your appointment now or ask further questions now...or Decline for xxx months. Thank you come again. that's lots of data to be split up. The COVID studies that have resurfaced had large confidence intervals. And that was for "people" not gender, nor age, let alone pre conditions and health. Factor in that all those numbers vary by vaccines I'd imagine. And there may be a degree of self selection at younger ages which could skew results. I get what you want, I do. I don't think what you are asking for is as simple as you'd like. Give me a couple of billion and I'll get it done in 8 weeks. Seriously though. When you go and see your gp (OK already it has the sound of fantasy about it), bear with me. When you go and see your gp and say... "Dr, I'm a bit concerned about taking the latest covid vaccine, can you please advise me, based on my personal health what the risks and benefits are?" and they will say.. "yes of course. Have it."... You mean to say they don't have the data to say... "ah I see you are a male, of 55 years, grossly over weigh and with a family history of heart conditions and you're taking this medication and based on that... I suggest it's a good idea for you to have the vaccine / it doesn't help your risk profile to have the vaccine".... I mean if not... Wtf do the Dr's go on to provide any meaningful advice? " irrc people were getting annoyed with doctors that they weren't giving any guidance. But even if what you say is true... Id be surprised if they put a number on it, the way you want your app to. I keep an ameteur eye on COVID publications. I have seen nothing that comes close to what you want. That doesn't surprise me. Again, what you want may be reasonable but imo it's not realistic. And like many other difficult problems, it's not as easy as throwing tech money at it. As much as MPs like to use that get out. | |||
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"You're wasting your time, nothing but jab zealots on here. Says someone with colossal confirmation bias and/or poor reading/comprehension skills. Laughable stupidity. Not exactly making yourself look good either. There are better ways to engage in a discussion rather. Everyone is entitles to an opinion, but anyone of here that raises questions about injuries etc are always attacked. Next I guess people will start calling the people who have had side effects/ injures by calling them Anti Vaxxers...... Funny....people having the vaccine and then having reactions and when raising concerns, they are now Anti Vaxxers, as reported on the BBC. The same BBC that is funder by Bill Gates. It’s fine having questions but it’s clear not everyone has the comprehension skills to understand the answers.. now back to school, once you have learnt the difference between funder and funded, redo your research on the Bill Gates topic He's done a cursory Google, seen the BBC logo and the words Bill Gates, added 2 + 2 and come up with 57 & 3 quarters. The link posted as "proof" is to BBC media, the Beebs charity and the Bill Gates mention is The Bill Gates Foundation, not Bill Gates personally. Winston " He also fails to mention his own role in funding Bill Gates by purchasing Microsoft products and ignores his own is part of the evil conspiracy | |||
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"You're wasting your time, nothing but jab zealots on here. Says someone with colossal confirmation bias and/or poor reading/comprehension skills. Laughable stupidity. Not exactly making yourself look good either. There are better ways to engage in a discussion rather. Everyone is entitles to an opinion, but anyone of here that raises questions about injuries etc are always attacked. Next I guess people will start calling the people who have had side effects/ injures by calling them Anti Vaxxers...... Funny....people having the vaccine and then having reactions and when raising concerns, they are now Anti Vaxxers, as reported on the BBC. The same BBC that is funder by Bill Gates. It’s fine having questions but it’s clear not everyone has the comprehension skills to understand the answers.. now back to school, once you have learnt the difference between funder and funded, redo your research on the Bill Gates topic He's done a cursory Google, seen the BBC logo and the words Bill Gates, added 2 + 2 and come up with 57 & 3 quarters. The link posted as "proof" is to BBC media, the Beebs charity and the Bill Gates mention is The Bill Gates Foundation, not Bill Gates personally. Winston He also fails to mention his own role in funding Bill Gates by purchasing Microsoft products and ignores his own is part of the evil conspiracy "What a hypocrite.
Winston | |||
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"Here is an interesting interview from BBC News, with Dr. Aseem Malhotra on likely contributory factor to excess cardiovascular deaths. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hhp60riPuVI" I think his view on statins was right on the mark. | |||
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"Whatever the reason for the increased death levels, even if its due to the vaccines, it will never be formally admitted as the reason. Too much money at stake and too many people will be discredited if it is the reason and the truth comes out. Agreed. Meanwhile we know it’s not something that is affecting the unvaccinated disproportionately because if it was it’d be headline news Quite possibly. Which is why it's important to get the risk factors out there (and benefits for older and at risk and vulnerable folks and possibly even younger ones too) and allow folks to make their own choices. more likely is we don't have good enough data to marry up vaccine status and deaths. Irrc we found out how patchy NHS data is when we wanted to look at it in 2020 (albwoy source here is Cummings). I will agree analysis is always good. But it needs to start without prejudice. And needs to be clearly explained. If the last few years show anything it's how poorly people understand anything scientific. Hell, there's been a number of threads here recently where people have misunderstood fairly straight forward information. Especially when they want to see bad news. Tbh it's a perfect lace for tech to help. An app... Hell we already have an nhs app which has our age, weight, heart condition etc on it... A few simple questions.. A calculation..spin the wheels.... If you have this vaccine... Your chances of catching xx are this. Your chances of getting seriously ill are this. Your chances of dying are this... Your risk of serious side effects are this... Book your appointment now or ask further questions now...or Decline for xxx months. Thank you come again. And you’d be happy imputing all your medical data into an app run by the government? Why not put your bank account,energy bills,car insurance,car tax,ect into an app with a tracking system so the government will know what you spend your money on how healthy you are,any underlying condition and everywhere you go the same government that can cut off your bank account because you’ve reached your carbon limit sounds crazy I know but…….CBDC, Digital IDs(government consultation online how many knew that?) but it’s all for OUR own good… *posted from my iPhone...... " Nothing surprises me these days.
Winston | |||
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"Let’s just ignore young football players dropping dead lmao" ah, this old line. Let's ignore this was based one report ... That included all kinds of ages ... And incidents before the vaccines were administered. | |||
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"Let’s just ignore young football players dropping dead lmaoah, this old line. Let's ignore this was based one report ... That included all kinds of ages ... And incidents before the vaccines were administered. " Let’s ignore the rise in heart attacks after the vaccines where administered let’s ignore medical professionals who said the vaccine can cause heart attacks lmao | |||
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"Let’s just ignore young football players dropping dead lmao" Footballers dying is funny? That's somewhat callous. | |||
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"Let’s just ignore young football players dropping dead lmaoah, this old line. Let's ignore this was based one report ... That included all kinds of ages ... And incidents before the vaccines were administered. Let’s ignore the rise in heart attacks after the vaccines where administered let’s ignore medical professionals who said the vaccine can cause heart attacks lmao" there have been plenty of threads and posts on the increaed rates. Very few have denied but have put out alternative views. The trouble with trying to generate good discussion is the willingness of people to throw out any old shit to see what sticks. There been a number recently on this forum. Not helpful. | |||
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"Let’s just ignore young football players dropping dead lmaoah, this old line. Let's ignore this was based one report ... That included all kinds of ages ... And incidents before the vaccines were administered. Let’s ignore the rise in heart attacks after the vaccines where administered let’s ignore medical professionals who said the vaccine can cause heart attacks lmaothere have been plenty of threads and posts on the increaed rates. Very few have denied but have put out alternative views. The trouble with trying to generate good discussion is the willingness of people to throw out any old shit to see what sticks. There been a number recently on this forum. Not helpful. " Why should opinions only be 'helpful'? Surely all are welcome, are they not? | |||
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"Let’s just ignore young football players dropping dead lmaoah, this old line. Let's ignore this was based one report ... That included all kinds of ages ... And incidents before the vaccines were administered. Let’s ignore the rise in heart attacks after the vaccines where administered let’s ignore medical professionals who said the vaccine can cause heart attacks lmaothere have been plenty of threads and posts on the increaed rates. Very few have denied but have put out alternative views. The trouble with trying to generate good discussion is the willingness of people to throw out any old shit to see what sticks. There been a number recently on this forum. Not helpful. Why should opinions only be 'helpful'? Surely all are welcome, are they not? " I mean they are not helpful to those wanting to make a case for taking concerns seriously. All opinions welcome and we should take them on their own merit. But human psychology means we will remember the number of clearly erroneous stories are associated with one side. And that can harm credibility. Personally of I had vaccine concerns if be seeking to head these lines off. That's just me tho. | |||
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"Let’s just ignore young football players dropping dead lmao Footballers dying is funny? That's somewhat callous. " Also not backed up with any facts | |||
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"Let’s just ignore young football players dropping dead lmaoah, this old line. Let's ignore this was based one report ... That included all kinds of ages ... And incidents before the vaccines were administered. Let’s ignore the rise in heart attacks after the vaccines where administered let’s ignore medical professionals who said the vaccine can cause heart attacks lmaothere have been plenty of threads and posts on the increaed rates. Very few have denied but have put out alternative views. The trouble with trying to generate good discussion is the willingness of people to throw out any old shit to see what sticks. There been a number recently on this forum. Not helpful. Why should opinions only be 'helpful'? Surely all are welcome, are they not? " Everyone is entitled to an opinion, not all opinions are equally valuable. This is precisely why opinions by “experts” are more valued in court testimony and evaluative reporting because they are more likely to provide opinions based on facts and knowledge. When someone tells you that they have a strong opinion about something, understand what their opinion is based on. Is it based on measurable data with some compelling outcome? Or is it based on reactive emotional preferences and impressions? If it is the latter, take it with a grain of salt before you value it. And if you have a strong opinion about something that you know very little about, try to figure out why before you give strong credence to your belief. The naked truth is this: Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But not all opinions are equally valuable. The truth is that opinions based in fact—in measurable, meaningful data—are more valuable than those that are not. Wise words. Winston | |||
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"Let’s just ignore young football players dropping dead lmaoah, this old line. Let's ignore this was based one report ... That included all kinds of ages ... And incidents before the vaccines were administered. Let’s ignore the rise in heart attacks after the vaccines where administered let’s ignore medical professionals who said the vaccine can cause heart attacks lmaothere have been plenty of threads and posts on the increaed rates. Very few have denied but have put out alternative views. The trouble with trying to generate good discussion is the willingness of people to throw out any old shit to see what sticks. There been a number recently on this forum. Not helpful. Why should opinions only be 'helpful'? Surely all are welcome, are they not? Everyone is entitled to an opinion, not all opinions are equally valuable. This is precisely why opinions by “experts” are more valued in court testimony and evaluative reporting because they are more likely to provide opinions based on facts and knowledge. When someone tells you that they have a strong opinion about something, understand what their opinion is based on. Is it based on measurable data with some compelling outcome? Or is it based on reactive emotional preferences and impressions? If it is the latter, take it with a grain of salt before you value it. And if you have a strong opinion about something that you know very little about, try to figure out why before you give strong credence to your belief. The naked truth is this: Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But not all opinions are equally valuable. The truth is that opinions based in fact—in measurable, meaningful data—are more valuable than those that are not. Wise words. Winston " | |||
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"Let’s just ignore young football players dropping dead lmao Footballers dying is funny? That's somewhat callous. Also not backed up with any facts "Pah!!!!! I pick my nose at your facts, I fart in the general direction of your facts. Now go away before I taunt you a second time.......
Winston | |||
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"Would that explain the sudden increase of healthy folk with no history of heart conditions dropping dead after being vaccinated??" possibly; but don’t forget climate change, that might be causing the excess sudden deaths. | |||
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"Would that explain the sudden increase of healthy folk with no history of heart conditions dropping dead after being vaccinated??possibly; but don’t forget climate change, that might be causing the excess sudden deaths." Or perhaps covid itself? | |||
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"Would that explain the sudden increase of healthy folk with no history of heart conditions dropping dead after being vaccinated??possibly; but don’t forget climate change, that might be causing the excess sudden deaths." I think it's electric cars | |||
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"Would that explain the sudden increase of healthy folk with no history of heart conditions dropping dead after being vaccinated??possibly; but don’t forget climate change, that might be causing the excess sudden deaths. Or perhaps covid itself?" I remember glancing at a study showing myocarditis levels following Covid, pre vaccine availability, at 11x the rate of myocarditis following Covid in people who were vaccinated. I'm reminded of young earth creationists arguing that dinosaur fossils are planted by Satan, with all these arguments that it's only the vaccine at fault. Obviously Satan rode on a spike protein backwards in time to plant evidence to fool sheeple, who are contained by the space-time continuum? | |||
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"Would that explain the sudden increase of healthy folk with no history of heart conditions dropping dead after being vaccinated??possibly; but don’t forget climate change, that might be causing the excess sudden deaths. Or perhaps covid itself? I remember glancing at a study showing myocarditis levels following Covid, pre vaccine availability, at 11x the rate of myocarditis following Covid in people who were vaccinated. I'm reminded of young earth creationists arguing that dinosaur fossils are planted by Satan, with all these arguments that it's only the vaccine at fault. Obviously Satan rode on a spike protein backwards in time to plant evidence to fool sheeple, who are contained by the space-time continuum?" You mean dinosaur fossils aren’t planted! Nooooooo! | |||
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"Would that explain the sudden increase of healthy folk with no history of heart conditions dropping dead after being vaccinated??possibly; but don’t forget climate change, that might be causing the excess sudden deaths. Or perhaps covid itself? I remember glancing at a study showing myocarditis levels following Covid, pre vaccine availability, at 11x the rate of myocarditis following Covid in people who were vaccinated. I'm reminded of young earth creationists arguing that dinosaur fossils are planted by Satan, with all these arguments that it's only the vaccine at fault. Obviously Satan rode on a spike protein backwards in time to plant evidence to fool sheeple, who are contained by the space-time continuum? You mean dinosaur fossils aren’t planted! Nooooooo!" You have to decide which side you're on. Darkness or light. The world or the Truth. The Truth says that the world is 6000 years old and evidence is satanic. Obvs. | |||
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"Would that explain the sudden increase of healthy folk with no history of heart conditions dropping dead after being vaccinated??possibly; but don’t forget climate change, that might be causing the excess sudden deaths. I think it's electric cars" It was wild swimming the other week. It was the heat a few months ago, then the cold in fact everyday something new seems to be causing heart problems in people but it’s DEFINITELY not the vaccines ok NOT THE VACCINES!! | |||
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"Would that explain the sudden increase of healthy folk with no history of heart conditions dropping dead after being vaccinated??possibly; but don’t forget climate change, that might be causing the excess sudden deaths. I think it's electric cars It was wild swimming the other week. It was the heat a few months ago, then the cold in fact everyday something new seems to be causing heart problems in people but it’s DEFINITELY not the vaccines ok NOT THE VACCINES!!" Meanwhile, outside the media, research continues to be done on why these excess deaths are happening. If you want to rely on the inconsistency of journalism rather than the building body of evidence, that's up to you. | |||
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"Would that explain the sudden increase of healthy folk with no history of heart conditions dropping dead after being vaccinated??possibly; but don’t forget climate change, that might be causing the excess sudden deaths. I think it's electric cars It was wild swimming the other week. It was the heat a few months ago, then the cold in fact everyday something new seems to be causing heart problems in people but it’s DEFINITELY not the vaccines ok NOT THE VACCINES!! Meanwhile, outside the media, research continues to be done on why these excess deaths are happening. If you want to rely on the inconsistency of journalism rather than the building body of evidence, that's up to you." That seems to be the problem MSM are NOT covering this story and we all know why. | |||
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"Would that explain the sudden increase of healthy folk with no history of heart conditions dropping dead after being vaccinated??possibly; but don’t forget climate change, that might be causing the excess sudden deaths. I think it's electric cars It was wild swimming the other week. It was the heat a few months ago, then the cold in fact everyday something new seems to be causing heart problems in people but it’s DEFINITELY not the vaccines ok NOT THE VACCINES!! Meanwhile, outside the media, research continues to be done on why these excess deaths are happening. If you want to rely on the inconsistency of journalism rather than the building body of evidence, that's up to you. That seems to be the problem MSM are NOT covering this story and we all know why." Because it's in their interests to pretend that Covid is just fine Just like it's in the interests of crackpot whackadoodle media to keep up the outrage machine about vaccines, masks, lockdowns, etc. Outrage porn sells. | |||
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"Would that explain the sudden increase of healthy folk with no history of heart conditions dropping dead after being vaccinated??possibly; but don’t forget climate change, that might be causing the excess sudden deaths. I think it's electric cars It was wild swimming the other week. It was the heat a few months ago, then the cold in fact everyday something new seems to be causing heart problems in people but it’s DEFINITELY not the vaccines ok NOT THE VACCINES!! Meanwhile, outside the media, research continues to be done on why these excess deaths are happening. If you want to rely on the inconsistency of journalism rather than the building body of evidence, that's up to you. That seems to be the problem MSM are NOT covering this story and we all know why." Maybe it's not the story you imagine it is? Winston | |||
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"Would that explain the sudden increase of healthy folk with no history of heart conditions dropping dead after being vaccinated??possibly; but don’t forget climate change, that might be causing the excess sudden deaths. I think it's electric cars It was wild swimming the other week. It was the heat a few months ago, then the cold in fact everyday something new seems to be causing heart problems in people but it’s DEFINITELY not the vaccines ok NOT THE VACCINES!! Meanwhile, outside the media, research continues to be done on why these excess deaths are happening. If you want to rely on the inconsistency of journalism rather than the building body of evidence, that's up to you. That seems to be the problem MSM are NOT covering this story and we all know why. Maybe it's not the story you imagine it is? Winston " The truth will come out in the end | |||
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"Would that explain the sudden increase of healthy folk with no history of heart conditions dropping dead after being vaccinated??possibly; but don’t forget climate change, that might be causing the excess sudden deaths. I think it's electric cars It was wild swimming the other week. It was the heat a few months ago, then the cold in fact everyday something new seems to be causing heart problems in people but it’s DEFINITELY not the vaccines ok NOT THE VACCINES!! Meanwhile, outside the media, research continues to be done on why these excess deaths are happening. If you want to rely on the inconsistency of journalism rather than the building body of evidence, that's up to you. That seems to be the problem MSM are NOT covering this story and we all know why. Maybe it's not the story you imagine it is? Winston The truth will come out in the end" Uh huh, uh huh....... Winston | |||
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"Would that explain the sudden increase of healthy folk with no history of heart conditions dropping dead after being vaccinated??possibly; but don’t forget climate change, that might be causing the excess sudden deaths. I think it's electric cars It was wild swimming the other week. It was the heat a few months ago, then the cold in fact everyday something new seems to be causing heart problems in people but it’s DEFINITELY not the vaccines ok NOT THE VACCINES!! Meanwhile, outside the media, research continues to be done on why these excess deaths are happening. If you want to rely on the inconsistency of journalism rather than the building body of evidence, that's up to you. That seems to be the problem MSM are NOT covering this story and we all know why. Maybe it's not the story you imagine it is? Winston The truth will come out in the end" In the meantime, let's follow the evidence trail, shall we? (Six times vaccinated here. On the basis of evidence, how much do I fear dying from post vaccine sequelae? Not in the slightest. Probably because I know the difference between evidence and manufactured outrage by lunatics who've found a profitable platform) | |||
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"Would that explain the sudden increase of healthy folk with no history of heart conditions dropping dead after being vaccinated??possibly; but don’t forget climate change, that might be causing the excess sudden deaths. I think it's electric cars It was wild swimming the other week. It was the heat a few months ago, then the cold in fact everyday something new seems to be causing heart problems in people but it’s DEFINITELY not the vaccines ok NOT THE VACCINES!! Meanwhile, outside the media, research continues to be done on why these excess deaths are happening. If you want to rely on the inconsistency of journalism rather than the building body of evidence, that's up to you. That seems to be the problem MSM are NOT covering this story and we all know why. Maybe it's not the story you imagine it is? Winston The truth will come out in the end In the meantime, let's follow the evidence trail, shall we? (Six times vaccinated here. On the basis of evidence, how much do I fear dying from post vaccine sequelae? Not in the slightest. Probably because I know the difference between evidence and manufactured outrage by lunatics who've found a profitable platform)" All the "truth" about the moon landings being faked. 50+ years and 250,000 people involved in the launch and the "truth" still hasn't been proven. Nearly 3 years of Covid, 165 country's, 8 billion people, economys decimated, I reckon someone might have blabbed a bit by now. Winston | |||
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"That seems to be the problem MSM are NOT covering this story and we all know why" Either there is no story or they've got better stories to cover. | |||
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"That seems to be the problem MSM are NOT covering this story and we all know why Either there is no story or they've got better stories to cover." The former........
Winston | |||
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"Would that explain the sudden increase of healthy folk with no history of heart conditions dropping dead after being vaccinated??possibly; but don’t forget climate change, that might be causing the excess sudden deaths. I think it's electric cars It was wild swimming the other week. It was the heat a few months ago, then the cold in fact everyday something new seems to be causing heart problems in people but it’s DEFINITELY not the vaccines ok NOT THE VACCINES!! Meanwhile, outside the media, research continues to be done on why these excess deaths are happening. If you want to rely on the inconsistency of journalism rather than the building body of evidence, that's up to you. That seems to be the problem MSM are NOT covering this story and we all know why. Maybe it's not the story you imagine it is? Winston The truth will come out in the end In the meantime, let's follow the evidence trail, shall we? (Six times vaccinated here. On the basis of evidence, how much do I fear dying from post vaccine sequelae? Not in the slightest. Probably because I know the difference between evidence and manufactured outrage by lunatics who've found a profitable platform) All the "truth" about the moon landings being faked. 50+ years and 250,000 people involved in the launch and the "truth" still hasn't been proven. Nearly 3 years of Covid, 165 country's, 8 billion people, economys decimated, I reckon someone might have blabbed a bit by now. Winston " Yeah, anyone postulating a conspiracy hasn't dealt with organising a group | |||
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"Here is an interesting interview from BBC News, with Dr. Aseem Malhotra on likely contributory factor to excess cardiovascular deaths. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hhp60riPuVI" But how meany have had the vaccination but not had covid? If they have had both was it the vaccination or covid we will never no well not for a long time long covid is a recognised problem and most are probably due to long covid not the vaccination. | |||
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"Here is an interesting interview from BBC News, with Dr. Aseem Malhotra on likely contributory factor to excess cardiovascular deaths. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hhp60riPuVI But how meany have had the vaccination but not had covid? If they have had both was it the vaccination or covid we will never no well not for a long time long covid is a recognised problem and most are probably due to long covid not the vaccination. " If you look back in the thread I have suggested to look at Australian data as they had essential little inward travel for a year after vaccination. And low and behold excess deaths took off after the travel ban was lifted | |||
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"Here is an interesting interview from BBC News, with Dr. Aseem Malhotra on likely contributory factor to excess cardiovascular deaths. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hhp60riPuVI But how meany have had the vaccination but not had covid? If they have had both was it the vaccination or covid we will never no well not for a long time long covid is a recognised problem and most are probably due to long covid not the vaccination. If you look back in the thread I have suggested to look at Australian data as they had essential little inward travel for a year after vaccination. And low and behold excess deaths took off after the travel ban was lifted " As I said not long ago - follow the evidence, not the scaremongering (vaccine) or the media (no clear story, if any). | |||
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"Would that explain the sudden increase of healthy folk with no history of heart conditions dropping dead after being vaccinated??possibly; but don’t forget climate change, that might be causing the excess sudden deaths. I think it's electric cars It was wild swimming the other week. It was the heat a few months ago, then the cold in fact everyday something new seems to be causing heart problems in people but it’s DEFINITELY not the vaccines ok NOT THE VACCINES!! Meanwhile, outside the media, research continues to be done on why these excess deaths are happening. If you want to rely on the inconsistency of journalism rather than the building body of evidence, that's up to you. That seems to be the problem MSM are NOT covering this story and we all know why. Maybe it's not the story you imagine it is? Winston The truth will come out in the end In the meantime, let's follow the evidence trail, shall we? (Six times vaccinated here. On the basis of evidence, how much do I fear dying from post vaccine sequelae? Not in the slightest. Probably because I know the difference between evidence and manufactured outrage by lunatics who've found a profitable platform)" Unvaccinated here as are a lot of my friends and family and none of us have been in ICU or died. Amazing really as that’s what we are told would most likely happen! | |||
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"Would that explain the sudden increase of healthy folk with no history of heart conditions dropping dead after being vaccinated??possibly; but don’t forget climate change, that might be causing the excess sudden deaths. I think it's electric cars It was wild swimming the other week. It was the heat a few months ago, then the cold in fact everyday something new seems to be causing heart problems in people but it’s DEFINITELY not the vaccines ok NOT THE VACCINES!! Meanwhile, outside the media, research continues to be done on why these excess deaths are happening. If you want to rely on the inconsistency of journalism rather than the building body of evidence, that's up to you. That seems to be the problem MSM are NOT covering this story and we all know why. Maybe it's not the story you imagine it is? Winston The truth will come out in the end In the meantime, let's follow the evidence trail, shall we? (Six times vaccinated here. On the basis of evidence, how much do I fear dying from post vaccine sequelae? Not in the slightest. Probably because I know the difference between evidence and manufactured outrage by lunatics who've found a profitable platform) Unvaccinated here as are a lot of my friends and family and none of us have been in ICU or died. Amazing really as that’s what we are told would most likely happen!" Someone should go back to school and have another go at grasping basic maths You might need to learn to listen first… nobody said you WOULD end up in ICU, rather a small proportion of our large population would need ICU but a small proportion of a large population is still a very big number. | |||
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"Would that explain the sudden increase of healthy folk with no history of heart conditions dropping dead after being vaccinated??possibly; but don’t forget climate change, that might be causing the excess sudden deaths. I think it's electric cars It was wild swimming the other week. It was the heat a few months ago, then the cold in fact everyday something new seems to be causing heart problems in people but it’s DEFINITELY not the vaccines ok NOT THE VACCINES!! Meanwhile, outside the media, research continues to be done on why these excess deaths are happening. If you want to rely on the inconsistency of journalism rather than the building body of evidence, that's up to you. That seems to be the problem MSM are NOT covering this story and we all know why. Maybe it's not the story you imagine it is? Winston The truth will come out in the end In the meantime, let's follow the evidence trail, shall we? (Six times vaccinated here. On the basis of evidence, how much do I fear dying from post vaccine sequelae? Not in the slightest. Probably because I know the difference between evidence and manufactured outrage by lunatics who've found a profitable platform) All the "truth" about the moon landings being faked. 50+ years and 250,000 people involved in the launch and the "truth" still hasn't been proven. Nearly 3 years of Covid, 165 country's, 8 billion people, economys decimated, I reckon someone might have blabbed a bit by now. Winston Yeah, anyone postulating a conspiracy hasn't dealt with organising a group " | |||
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"Would that explain the sudden increase of healthy folk with no history of heart conditions dropping dead after being vaccinated??possibly; but don’t forget climate change, that might be causing the excess sudden deaths. I think it's electric cars It was wild swimming the other week. It was the heat a few months ago, then the cold in fact everyday something new seems to be causing heart problems in people but it’s DEFINITELY not the vaccines ok NOT THE VACCINES!! Meanwhile, outside the media, research continues to be done on why these excess deaths are happening. If you want to rely on the inconsistency of journalism rather than the building body of evidence, that's up to you. That seems to be the problem MSM are NOT covering this story and we all know why. Maybe it's not the story you imagine it is? Winston The truth will come out in the end In the meantime, let's follow the evidence trail, shall we? (Six times vaccinated here. On the basis of evidence, how much do I fear dying from post vaccine sequelae? Not in the slightest. Probably because I know the difference between evidence and manufactured outrage by lunatics who've found a profitable platform) Unvaccinated here as are a lot of my friends and family and none of us have been in ICU or died. Amazing really as that’s what we are told would most likely happen! Someone should go back to school and have another go at grasping basic maths You might need to learn to listen first… nobody said you WOULD end up in ICU, rather a small proportion of our large population would need ICU but a small proportion of a large population is still a very big number."A small proportion of a large population has suffered vaccine injuries. Still a very big number | |||
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"Here is an interesting interview from BBC News, with Dr. Aseem Malhotra on likely contributory factor to excess cardiovascular deaths. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hhp60riPuVI But how meany have had the vaccination but not had covid? If they have had both was it the vaccination or covid we will never no well not for a long time long covid is a recognised problem and most are probably due to long covid not the vaccination. If you look back in the thread I have suggested to look at Australian data as they had essential little inward travel for a year after vaccination. And low and behold excess deaths took off after the travel ban was lifted As I said not long ago - follow the evidence, not the scaremongering (vaccine) or the media (no clear story, if any)." The problem with following the evidence is that 90% of it is fabricated by those connected with the vast amounts of money that have amd still are being made. Remember when Albert Bourla said it would be immoral to make money from the pandemic and they would work closely with other vaccine developers. I heard many people saying they were doing this for the good of humanity and profit wasn't the motive. 93% safe and effective? That's really worked out well and now the weekly excess deaths are higher than the worst weeks from covid yet we dont see death scores everyday on the news. Men 50 to 64 dropping dead at home with heart problems, it seems totally unaware they had anything to worry about. Follow the corruption and you will find the evidence | |||
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"Here is an interesting interview from BBC News, with Dr. Aseem Malhotra on likely contributory factor to excess cardiovascular deaths. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hhp60riPuVI But how meany have had the vaccination but not had covid? If they have had both was it the vaccination or covid we will never no well not for a long time long covid is a recognised problem and most are probably due to long covid not the vaccination. If you look back in the thread I have suggested to look at Australian data as they had essential little inward travel for a year after vaccination. And low and behold excess deaths took off after the travel ban was lifted As I said not long ago - follow the evidence, not the scaremongering (vaccine) or the media (no clear story, if any). The problem with following the evidence is that 90% of it is fabricated by those connected with the vast amounts of money that have amd still are being made. Remember when Albert Bourla said it would be immoral to make money from the pandemic and they would work closely with other vaccine developers. I heard many people saying they were doing this for the good of humanity and profit wasn't the motive. 93% safe and effective? That's really worked out well and now the weekly excess deaths are higher than the worst weeks from covid yet we dont see death scores everyday on the news. Men 50 to 64 dropping dead at home with heart problems, it seems totally unaware they had anything to worry about. Follow the corruption and you will find the evidence " Hmm. I think I said evidence, not half truths and horse shit. | |||
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"Worth a look Dr jhon Campbell a doctor Dr as of academic degrees He is a nhs nurse https://youtu.be/ku2Fv7xnL1o" He has a PhD in nursing education His work was on methods of teaching online or digitally. Someone like that would be in an excellent position to manipulate people for profit. And if you have a look, you might see he's made quite a lot of money | |||
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"Here is an interesting interview from BBC News, with Dr. Aseem Malhotra on likely contributory factor to excess cardiovascular deaths. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hhp60riPuVI But how meany have had the vaccination but not had covid? If they have had both was it the vaccination or covid we will never no well not for a long time long covid is a recognised problem and most are probably due to long covid not the vaccination. If you look back in the thread I have suggested to look at Australian data as they had essential little inward travel for a year after vaccination. And low and behold excess deaths took off after the travel ban was lifted As I said not long ago - follow the evidence, not the scaremongering (vaccine) or the media (no clear story, if any). The problem with following the evidence is that 90% of it is fabricated by those connected with the vast amounts of money that have amd still are being made. Remember when Albert Bourla said it would be immoral to make money from the pandemic and they would work closely with other vaccine developers. I heard many people saying they were doing this for the good of humanity and profit wasn't the motive. 93% safe and effective? That's really worked out well and now the weekly excess deaths are higher than the worst weeks from covid yet we dont see death scores everyday on the news. Men 50 to 64 dropping dead at home with heart problems, it seems totally unaware they had anything to worry about. Follow the corruption and you will find the evidence " Well we know it’s not the unvaccinated that are dropping like flies as the media would be all over that | |||
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"now the weekly excess deaths are higher than the worst weeks from covid yet we dont see death scores everyday on the news." Just eyeballing ONS data suggested that I'd not true. Early 2020 was c 12k. Today is 3k. (2k excluding COVID) There may be something to look at with males. Although you need to do more to show it's vaccine related and not COVID. Or NHS falling over. | |||
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"Why aren’t all these excess deaths being tallied and shovelled down our throats by the media like they were during 2020 and 2021? " I thought we were supposed to be doing our own research? Turning off the MSM, looking out our windows and judging by what's happening out there, etc? About 20% above the five year average at the moment. You're welcome. | |||
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"Here is an interesting interview from BBC News, with Dr. Aseem Malhotra on likely contributory factor to excess cardiovascular deaths. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hhp60riPuVI But how meany have had the vaccination but not had covid? If they have had both was it the vaccination or covid we will never no well not for a long time long covid is a recognised problem and most are probably due to long covid not the vaccination. If you look back in the thread I have suggested to look at Australian data as they had essential little inward travel for a year after vaccination. And low and behold excess deaths took off after the travel ban was lifted As I said not long ago - follow the evidence, not the scaremongering (vaccine) or the media (no clear story, if any). The problem with following the evidence is that 90% of it is fabricated by those connected with the vast amounts of money that have amd still are being made. Remember when Albert Bourla said it would be immoral to make money from the pandemic and they would work closely with other vaccine developers. I heard many people saying they were doing this for the good of humanity and profit wasn't the motive. 93% safe and effective? That's really worked out well and now the weekly excess deaths are higher than the worst weeks from covid yet we dont see death scores everyday on the news. Men 50 to 64 dropping dead at home with heart problems, it seems totally unaware they had anything to worry about. Follow the corruption and you will find the evidence Well we know it’s not the unvaccinated that are dropping like flies as the media would be all over that " or theres no data combining deaths and vaccine status. I suspect Xs deaths come from certificates. | |||
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"I think it's reasonable to ask why the evidence of unexplained and increased deaths particularly in men, are not being reported daily and news worthy every day. I know there is certainly covid fatigue but ostrich syndrome doesn't help us at all. Listen to the silence and the damage being done to the trust in this and any other vaccination program will take a long time to repair. Official Communication would be a good way to neutralise the effects of much of the clickbaiters. " I do think the relative official silence on the issue gives rise to a lot of nonsense to fill the void. The news reports what's in its best interest, I think, and I think the interest of making money from advertisers (or in the case of the BBC, pressure from the government) wins out. | |||
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"I think it's reasonable to ask why the evidence of unexplained and increased deaths particularly in men, are not being reported daily and news worthy every day. I know there is certainly covid fatigue but ostrich syndrome doesn't help us at all. Listen to the silence and the damage being done to the trust in this and any other vaccination program will take a long time to repair. Official Communication would be a good way to neutralise the effects of much of the clickbaiters. " The government and media will never admit their guilt and the jabbed people will never admit they have been fooled a mutual silence | |||
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"I think it's reasonable to ask why the evidence of unexplained and increased deaths particularly in men, are not being reported daily and news worthy every day. I know there is certainly covid fatigue but ostrich syndrome doesn't help us at all. Listen to the silence and the damage being done to the trust in this and any other vaccination program will take a long time to repair. Official Communication would be a good way to neutralise the effects of much of the clickbaiters. " it is reported. But XS deaths is weekly, so what's to report each day? And there's no new information other than the ONS MI. | |||
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"Why aren’t all these excess deaths being tallied and shovelled down our throats by the media like they were during 2020 and 2021? I thought we were supposed to be doing our own research? Turning off the MSM, looking out our windows and judging by what's happening out there, etc? About 20% above the five year average at the moment. You're welcome." That doesn’t answer my question though does it. Would you like try again and attempt to explain why the numbers aren’t repeatedly shown every time you switch the news on? | |||
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"I think it's reasonable to ask why the evidence of unexplained and increased deaths particularly in men, are not being reported daily and news worthy every day. I know there is certainly covid fatigue but ostrich syndrome doesn't help us at all. Listen to the silence and the damage being done to the trust in this and any other vaccination program will take a long time to repair. Official Communication would be a good way to neutralise the effects of much of the clickbaiters. The government and media will never admit their guilt and the jabbed people will never admit they have been fooled a mutual silence " Let's see how this is going in five years  | |||
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"Here is an interesting interview from BBC News, with Dr. Aseem Malhotra on likely contributory factor to excess cardiovascular deaths. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hhp60riPuVI But how meany have had the vaccination but not had covid? If they have had both was it the vaccination or covid we will never no well not for a long time long covid is a recognised problem and most are probably due to long covid not the vaccination. If you look back in the thread I have suggested to look at Australian data as they had essential little inward travel for a year after vaccination. And low and behold excess deaths took off after the travel ban was lifted As I said not long ago - follow the evidence, not the scaremongering (vaccine) or the media (no clear story, if any). The problem with following the evidence is that 90% of it is fabricated by those connected with the vast amounts of money that have amd still are being made. Remember when Albert Bourla said it would be immoral to make money from the pandemic and they would work closely with other vaccine developers. I heard many people saying they were doing this for the good of humanity and profit wasn't the motive. 93% safe and effective? That's really worked out well and now the weekly excess deaths are higher than the worst weeks from covid yet we dont see death scores everyday on the news. Men 50 to 64 dropping dead at home with heart problems, it seems totally unaware they had anything to worry about. Follow the corruption and you will find the evidence Hmm. I think I said evidence, not half truths and horse shit." Where are you finding your evidence then? Please show us the way | |||
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"Why aren’t all these excess deaths being tallied and shovelled down our throats by the media like they were during 2020 and 2021? I thought we were supposed to be doing our own research? Turning off the MSM, looking out our windows and judging by what's happening out there, etc? About 20% above the five year average at the moment. You're welcome. That doesn’t answer my question though does it. Would you like try again and attempt to explain why the numbers aren’t repeatedly shown every time you switch the news on?" The news don't want to show it. I'm not the news, fucked if I know why. In the meantime why don't you do your own research, as it's been declared so many times that the MSM isn't worth watching? Look out your window. No one is collapsing. Live your life. We have freedom now! | |||
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"I think it's reasonable to ask why the evidence of unexplained and increased deaths particularly in men, are not being reported daily and news worthy every day. I know there is certainly covid fatigue but ostrich syndrome doesn't help us at all. Listen to the silence and the damage being done to the trust in this and any other vaccination program will take a long time to repair. Official Communication would be a good way to neutralise the effects of much of the clickbaiters. The government and media will never admit their guilt and the jabbed people will never admit they have been fooled a mutual silence Let's see how this is going in five years "This is your go to argument when unable to argue with the facts. | |||
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"Why aren’t all these excess deaths being tallied and shovelled down our throats by the media like they were during 2020 and 2021? I thought we were supposed to be doing our own research? Turning off the MSM, looking out our windows and judging by what's happening out there, etc? About 20% above the five year average at the moment. You're welcome. That doesn’t answer my question though does it. Would you like try again and attempt to explain why the numbers aren’t repeatedly shown every time you switch the news on?" because there's nothing new to report. And only so much time to report stuff. "The number we reported six days ago is still the same number" isn't really useful. "There's no new insight since yesterday". | |||
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"Why aren’t all these excess deaths being tallied and shovelled down our throats by the media like they were during 2020 and 2021? I thought we were supposed to be doing our own research? Turning off the MSM, looking out our windows and judging by what's happening out there, etc? About 20% above the five year average at the moment. You're welcome. That doesn’t answer my question though does it. Would you like try again and attempt to explain why the numbers aren’t repeatedly shown every time you switch the news on? The news don't want to show it. I'm not the news, fucked if I know why. In the meantime why don't you do your own research, as it's been declared so many times that the MSM isn't worth watching? Look out your window. No one is collapsing. Live your life. We have freedom now!" You seem to be going off on some kind of weird tangent there. Why are you reacting like that? Does it make you feel uncomfortable that you, and probably no one else in here can answer the question I asked? During 2020 and 2021 the death toll was almost on a rolling banner across the screen. Now it isn’t. I only wanted to know why. Weirdly, the answer is not out the window. | |||
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"Here is an interesting interview from BBC News, with Dr. Aseem Malhotra on likely contributory factor to excess cardiovascular deaths. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hhp60riPuVI But how meany have had the vaccination but not had covid? If they have had both was it the vaccination or covid we will never no well not for a long time long covid is a recognised problem and most are probably due to long covid not the vaccination. If you look back in the thread I have suggested to look at Australian data as they had essential little inward travel for a year after vaccination. And low and behold excess deaths took off after the travel ban was lifted As I said not long ago - follow the evidence, not the scaremongering (vaccine) or the media (no clear story, if any). The problem with following the evidence is that 90% of it is fabricated by those connected with the vast amounts of money that have amd still are being made. Remember when Albert Bourla said it would be immoral to make money from the pandemic and they would work closely with other vaccine developers. I heard many people saying they were doing this for the good of humanity and profit wasn't the motive. 93% safe and effective? That's really worked out well and now the weekly excess deaths are higher than the worst weeks from covid yet we dont see death scores everyday on the news. Men 50 to 64 dropping dead at home with heart problems, it seems totally unaware they had anything to worry about. Follow the corruption and you will find the evidence Hmm. I think I said evidence, not half truths and horse shit. Where are you finding your evidence then? Please show us the way " Using my critical thinking skills. I vet everything I read by criteria of reliability (sensationalism, intellectual honesty, internal consistency, support by external evidence, track record of author and how they've dealt with it, etc). I find the scientific literature and some scientific commentary most helpful in this context. One of the key parts of critical thinking is that it's a process, not a list of gospel. So you take the tools and apply them. I wouldn't want to do you a disservice with such a valuable life skill. | |||
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"I think it's reasonable to ask why the evidence of unexplained and increased deaths particularly in men, are not being reported daily and news worthy every day. I know there is certainly covid fatigue but ostrich syndrome doesn't help us at all. Listen to the silence and the damage being done to the trust in this and any other vaccination program will take a long time to repair. Official Communication would be a good way to neutralise the effects of much of the clickbaiters. The government and media will never admit their guilt and the jabbed people will never admit they have been fooled a mutual silence Let's see how this is going in five years "Well you have had 5 jabs I have had none. We are both still alive but one of us has a concoction inside us that has had no long term testing. Good luck | |||
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"Coming at this from a slightly different and more constructive angle. And there are a lot of "ifs" in here... But if there is considerable risk of cardiac problems either from the vaccines or from covid. Perhaps a program to review those at risk, find and diagnose the problems would be of more benefit.? Sure. NHS is stretched (I think it depends where and what part of the nhs) but having a program to identify problems would be worthwhile? I mean at the end of the day pharma could see it as an investment as they'd end up with more folks on life saving heart meds anyway? Just a thought. " I agree. Although finding more time, money and resource from the NHS could be a challenge. I do agree that's the drum to bang. | |||
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"Why aren’t all these excess deaths being tallied and shovelled down our throats by the media like they were during 2020 and 2021? I thought we were supposed to be doing our own research? Turning off the MSM, looking out our windows and judging by what's happening out there, etc? About 20% above the five year average at the moment. You're welcome. That doesn’t answer my question though does it. Would you like try again and attempt to explain why the numbers aren’t repeatedly shown every time you switch the news on?because there's nothing new to report. And only so much time to report stuff. "The number we reported six days ago is still the same number" isn't really useful. "There's no new insight since yesterday". " I would disagree. The death toll dominated the news during 2020 and 2021 but now it doesn’t despite claims that it is above a certain average. Why are these deaths no more important than the ones of 2020/2021? | |||
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"I think it's reasonable to ask why the evidence of unexplained and increased deaths particularly in men, are not being reported daily and news worthy every day. I know there is certainly covid fatigue but ostrich syndrome doesn't help us at all. Listen to the silence and the damage being done to the trust in this and any other vaccination program will take a long time to repair. Official Communication would be a good way to neutralise the effects of much of the clickbaiters. The government and media will never admit their guilt and the jabbed people will never admit they have been fooled a mutual silence Let's see how this is going in five years
This is your go to argument when unable to argue with the facts. "I'm not sure what I was responding to could be described as facts. Did you mean fantasy? | |||
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"Why aren’t all these excess deaths being tallied and shovelled down our throats by the media like they were during 2020 and 2021? I thought we were supposed to be doing our own research? Turning off the MSM, looking out our windows and judging by what's happening out there, etc? About 20% above the five year average at the moment. You're welcome. That doesn’t answer my question though does it. Would you like try again and attempt to explain why the numbers aren’t repeatedly shown every time you switch the news on? The news don't want to show it. I'm not the news, fucked if I know why. In the meantime why don't you do your own research, as it's been declared so many times that the MSM isn't worth watching? Look out your window. No one is collapsing. Live your life. We have freedom now! You seem to be going off on some kind of weird tangent there. Why are you reacting like that? Does it make you feel uncomfortable that you, and probably no one else in here can answer the question I asked? During 2020 and 2021 the death toll was almost on a rolling banner across the screen. Now it isn’t. I only wanted to know why. Weirdly, the answer is not out the window. " COVID numbers were daily. Covid was pretty much the only news. The govenment were doing daily updates. Deaths were increasing exponentially and massively above the average. Covid was affecting our day to day lives with lockdowns etc. | |||
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"Well you have had 5 jabs I have had none. We are both still alive but one of us has a concoction inside us that has had no long term testing. Good luck " I've had six jabs. Three variations of "concoction". I predict that the side effects of my various "concoctions" will be zero, based on decades of knowledge of side effects of vaccines (or experimental holocaustal gene therapy, you do you). | |||
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