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NHS - Time to save it?
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"The NHS has been underfunded for years now but does need more front line staff than mangerment Give them tools to do there job But we as patients should help too there are far to many minor injuries ie something you can treat yourself at home when i was a kid very rare u saw a doctor or hospital " And stop smoking and eating garbage ! | |||
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"Yes but an immediate increase on taxation to pay for it. 2p on the badic rate. 1p fir NHS. 1p for social care. " Fuck that, I'd never get behind that idea wheb there's so many areas of government expenditure / waste they could clamp down on to generate that extra money. | |||
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"This government aims to privatise the NHS, and the public voted them in to power knowing they aim to do just that, so no, nothing will change. People who vote Tory are prepared to clap for the NHS, but ask them to do anything more meaningful and they really aren't interested." People still believe this labour election propeganda????????? | |||
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"This government aims to privatise the NHS, and the public voted them in to power knowing they aim to do just that, so no, nothing will change. People who vote Tory are prepared to clap for the NHS, but ask them to do anything more meaningful and they really aren't interested.People still believe this labour election propeganda?????????" It seems, sadly, that some still do! | |||
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"Brexit had the NHS slogan - people love the NHS but Boris has single handedly not listened to any experts, not followed WHO guidance and attempted rather than to trace anyone to trying encourage infection.We won't have any Dr's and Nurses left by the time he has finished. 1. Lose 1/3 of nursing staff through Brexit 2. whilst everyone else is in lockdown - shake hands with covid patients, encourage people down the pub with the budget and hide deaths from covid we knew about. 3. fail to equip NHS staff - try comparing China's PPE or Germanys or Italy's to our own with the wrong masks, and plastic aprons. 4. Tell everyone to wash your hands when simply talking to someone reads it and it hangs around on hard surfaces for 14 days on the diamond princess. 5. The last time that boris clapped the NHS (pre April) was when he defeated a pay rise for them. 6. Let all the doctors and nurses die and then privatise the NHS so the next virus culls more poor people. 7. Unfortunately there will still be people that clap this utter disgrace for single handedly destroying our beloved NHS" Very true! | |||
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"This government aims to privatise the NHS, and the public voted them in to power knowing they aim to do just that, so no, nothing will change. People who vote Tory are prepared to clap for the NHS, but ask them to do anything more meaningful and they really aren't interested.People still believe this labour election propeganda????????? It seems, sadly, that some still do!" https://fullfact.org/health/spending-english-nhs/ The last graph showing the different spending levels across the governments of the last 50 years says it all. | |||
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"This government aims to privatise the NHS, and the public voted them in to power knowing they aim to do just that, so no, nothing will change. People who vote Tory are prepared to clap for the NHS, but ask them to do anything more meaningful and they really aren't interested." your source of proof for this is? Or is this just what you think? | |||
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"Brexit had the NHS slogan - people love the NHS but Boris has single handedly not listened to any experts, not followed WHO guidance and attempted rather than to trace anyone to trying encourage infection.We won't have any Dr's and Nurses left by the time he has finished. 1. Lose 1/3 of nursing staff through Brexit 2. whilst everyone else is in lockdown - shake hands with covid patients, encourage people down the pub with the budget and hide deaths from covid we knew about. 3. fail to equip NHS staff - try comparing China's PPE or Germanys or Italy's to our own with the wrong masks, and plastic aprons. 4. Tell everyone to wash your hands when simply talking to someone reads it and it hangs around on hard surfaces for 14 days on the diamond princess. 5. The last time that boris clapped the NHS (pre April) was when he defeated a pay rise for them. 6. Let all the doctors and nurses die and then privatise the NHS so the next virus culls more poor people. 7. Unfortunately there will still be people that clap this utter disgrace for single handedly destroying our beloved NHS Very true!" True ? I see 5 of 7 that are bullshit | |||
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"Do you think once the pandemic is over the public will realise and demand that more investment and support is given to the NHS? Should the wages increase for everyone from the porter or cleaner to the doctors and nurses and all those that work in it? What are your thoughts and views? " Do you think after this is over all those not attending A&E for the slightest sniffle will continue to stay away? I doubt it. So we will continue to abuse it when we think we need it and demand tax cuts when we think we could do with less of it. | |||
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"This government aims to privatise the NHS, and the public voted them in to power knowing they aim to do just that, so no, nothing will change. People who vote Tory are prepared to clap for the NHS, but ask them to do anything more meaningful and they really aren't interested.People still believe this labour election propeganda?????????" Wow I missed the labour electioneering when they talked about people clapping for the NHS. They can see the future! Absolutely amazing (if true). | |||
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"This government aims to privatise the NHS, and the public voted them in to power knowing they aim to do just that, so no, nothing will change. People who vote Tory are prepared to clap for the NHS, but ask them to do anything more meaningful and they really aren't interested.your source of proof for this is? Or is this just what you think?" Clapping for the NHS in no way makes amends for voting Tory. I agree with the general gist that the Tories will not change their policy on the NHS after this crisis is over. They will plough on with its slow painful downfall until Brexit comes and forces it to be sold off to American companies. As per the original Brexit plans. | |||
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"Brexit had the NHS slogan - people love the NHS but Boris has single handedly not listened to any experts, not followed WHO guidance and attempted rather than to trace anyone to trying encourage infection.We won't have any Dr's and Nurses left by the time he has finished. 1. Lose 1/3 of nursing staff through Brexit 2. whilst everyone else is in lockdown - shake hands with covid patients, encourage people down the pub with the budget and hide deaths from covid we knew about. 3. fail to equip NHS staff - try comparing China's PPE or Germanys or Italy's to our own with the wrong masks, and plastic aprons. 4. Tell everyone to wash your hands when simply talking to someone reads it and it hangs around on hard surfaces for 14 days on the diamond princess. 5. The last time that boris clapped the NHS (pre April) was when he defeated a pay rise for them. 6. Let all the doctors and nurses die and then privatise the NHS so the next virus culls more poor people. 7. Unfortunately there will still be people that clap this utter disgrace for single handedly destroying our beloved NHS"  | |||
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"Old news here. Maybe dont swamp the NHS in Paperwork and let them.do there jobs Just like any other goverment stop swamping them with paperwork and just let them do there jobs. "Most organisations are bogged down in paperwork.Its a fact of modern life. | |||
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"Do you think once the pandemic is over the public will realise and demand that more investment and support is given to the NHS? Should the wages increase for everyone from the porter or cleaner to the doctors and nurses and all those that work in it? What are your thoughts and views? " Depends what happens after Brexit?trump wants his hands on it. 1 way or another it will change. | |||
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"Don’t we have a spare 350 million now to send them a week? Well that’s what we were told." Yep | |||
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"For what it’s worth here is my take on things: Firstly the NHS are doing a fantastic job and rightly should be thanked and applauded. Nobody could deny them a pay rise after all this. The issue never has been funding, how that funding is spent and prioritised is the problem. Every year since inception funding has increased, albeit not recently at rates we have previously seen. The answer is not always to throw more money at it. The NHS is more stretched than it has ever been, even prior to this. People are living longer and with that an extra burden is created. Add to the mix those who have lifestyle induced health problems and you’ve got a melting pot where everyone in the pot think they are the priority. If you take a look at access rates for A&E and walk in centres in the last few weeks numbers are significantly down. Is this because people are scared of contracting CV19 or they didn’t really need to go in the first place? Germany is being held up as the beacon for an effective health service yet their system involves a degree of private insurance alongside public funding. The minute anyone mentions privatisation people automatically assume we’re talking about the (ridiculous) American model. I think we all need to look at what we expect and demand of our NHS and the NHS themselves need to look at how they can become more efficient. " Someone who actually understands you cant always throw more money and something to fix a problem. I for one have absolutely no problem with some sort of German system. Hopefully it will go some way to stopping or reducing the number of unnecessary visits to doctors/hospitals. | |||
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"I think the only way to save and protect nhs is introducing private health care facilities for employed people part funded by government to ease burden, also think charge for a&e will need to e brought in ..." So if you work..you pay? | |||
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"Do you think once the pandemic is over the public will realise and demand that more investment and support is given to the NHS? Should the wages increase for everyone from the porter or cleaner to the doctors and nurses and all those that work in it? What are your thoughts and views? Depends what happens after Brexit?trump wants his hands on it. 1 way or another it will change." It’s very big though. His hands are tiny. | |||
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"The bigger problem the NHS has is it's overwhelming beauracracy and wastefulness. It needs more efficient management and less red tape. If it was a private business it would have gone bust a long time ago." Red tape is often health and safety issues which protect peoples lives. It's a huge organisation..how is it going to be run with no beaurscy? ,its not private..and it's not a business..its not there to make money. | |||
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"I think the only way to save and protect nhs is introducing private health care facilities for employed people part funded by government to ease burden, also think charge for a&e will need to e brought in ... So if you work..you pay?" If only there was some system that took some money automatically from people who work, and send it to the NHS..... | |||
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"I find that it’s quite easy to blame the lack of funding however do people consider that when they go to A and E for something that could have waited until the following day? Or what about when they miss their appointments? Prescriptions for things you can get over the counter. Calling an ambulance when you could get yourself to hospital. Look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves "It's also quite true.The figures are there in black and white. It's hardly The NHS'fault if people miss appointments. And no one mentions the 6 year pay freeze when this is discussed. Just a load of deflection and nonsense about "bureaucracy 'and red tape. | |||
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"The bigger problem the NHS has is it's overwhelming beauracracy and wastefulness. It needs more efficient management and less red tape. If it was a private business it would have gone bust a long time ago. Red tape is often health and safety issues which protect peoples lives. It's a huge organisation..how is it going to be run with no beaurscy? ,its not private..and it's not a business..its not there to make money." It's not about making money more using the resources it has effectively and efficiently. Pumping vast sums of money in isn't going to be a sensible solution if the key issues aren't addressed. It would be like filling a car up with petrol with a hole in the fuel tank. | |||
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"The bigger problem the NHS has is it's overwhelming beauracracy and wastefulness. It needs more efficient management and less red tape. If it was a private business it would have gone bust a long time ago. Red tape is often health and safety issues which protect peoples lives. It's a huge organisation..how is it going to be run with no beaurscy? ,its not private..and it's not a business..its not there to make money. It's not about making money more using the resources it has effectively and efficiently. Pumping vast sums of money in isn't going to be a sensible solution if the key issues aren't addressed. It would be like filling a car up with petrol with a hole in the fuel tank." Every single organisation in the world has issues of inefficiency. | |||
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"The NHS has moved on so far from it's original aim as medicine has evolved. Let's face it now it's doing, cosmetic surgery correction, tattoo removal, along with all the mental, elderly, infirm and disability care its expected to provide it was designed and aimed at providing a free medical system to treat Ill and injured people. Not someone who had an ex's name inked on there arm and now wants it removed. Society and its expectations have changed so much from the original concept and design of the NHS its unbelievable that people expect it to be the best. When the idea was conceived elderly and disabled where looked after by family where now the NHS is expected to carry and fund the burden, same with someone who went abroad or to dubious practices for cheap cosmetic surgery that's gone wrong. Or who pays to skip the que for an operation but expects the NHS to do all the post op care. The extra services it now provides from the original concept is staggering." 100% incorrect (cosmetic surgery etc) | |||
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"The bigger problem the NHS has is it's overwhelming beauracracy and wastefulness. It needs more efficient management and less red tape. If it was a private business it would have gone bust a long time ago. Red tape is often health and safety issues which protect peoples lives. It's a huge organisation..how is it going to be run with no beaurscy? ,its not private..and it's not a business..its not there to make money. It's not about making money more using the resources it has effectively and efficiently. Pumping vast sums of money in isn't going to be a sensible solution if the key issues aren't addressed. It would be like filling a car up with petrol with a hole in the fuel tank. Every single organisation in the world has issues of inefficiency." True, but government funded ones seem to be the worst. Private companies by nature have to find ways of working effectively within a budget, centrally funded ones do not. It's become quite common for them to become complacent and wasteful knowing that they have a constant source of money. The BBC is another example. | |||
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"The bigger problem the NHS has is it's overwhelming beauracracy and wastefulness. It needs more efficient management and less red tape. If it was a private business it would have gone bust a long time ago. Red tape is often health and safety issues which protect peoples lives. It's a huge organisation..how is it going to be run with no beaurscy? ,its not private..and it's not a business..its not there to make money. It's not about making money more using the resources it has effectively and efficiently. Pumping vast sums of money in isn't going to be a sensible solution if the key issues aren't addressed. It would be like filling a car up with petrol with a hole in the fuel tank. Every single organisation in the world has issues of inefficiency. True, but government funded ones seem to be the worst. Private companies by nature have to find ways of working effectively within a budget, centrally funded ones do not. It's become quite common for them to become complacent and wasteful knowing that they have a constant source of money. The BBC is another example. " I've worked in a public/private sector organisation. For the public side..service was the main factor. For the private The bottom line was profit. It was as black and white as that | |||
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"The bigger problem the NHS has is it's overwhelming beauracracy and wastefulness. It needs more efficient management and less red tape. If it was a private business it would have gone bust a long time ago. Red tape is often health and safety issues which protect peoples lives. It's a huge organisation..how is it going to be run with no beaurscy? ,its not private..and it's not a business..its not there to make money. It's not about making money more using the resources it has effectively and efficiently. Pumping vast sums of money in isn't going to be a sensible solution if the key issues aren't addressed. It would be like filling a car up with petrol with a hole in the fuel tank. Every single organisation in the world has issues of inefficiency. True, but government funded ones seem to be the worst. Private companies by nature have to find ways of working effectively within a budget, centrally funded ones do not. It's become quite common for them to become complacent and wasteful knowing that they have a constant source of money. The BBC is another example. " Private companies are as inefficient and wasteful as public ones. Budgets get wasted, exactly the same. | |||
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"Yes but an immediate increase on taxation to pay for it. 2p on the badic rate. 1p fir NHS. 1p for social care. " I agree think your so right,it will be a tax that nobody will moan about either | |||
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"Yes but an immediate increase on taxation to pay for it. 2p on the badic rate. 1p fir NHS. 1p for social care. I agree think your so right,it will be a tax that nobody will moan about either" If people want the NHS service they expect, and for that to be put into place as rapidly as the public will expect, far more is needed than that. | |||
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"This government aims to privatise the NHS, and the public voted them in to power knowing they aim to do just that, so no, nothing will change. People who vote Tory are prepared to clap for the NHS, but ask them to do anything more meaningful and they really aren't interested.People still believe this labour election propeganda????????? It seems, sadly, that some still do!" This government has never planned to privatise the NHS and this is a total lie put about by left wing liers.If you go back in history it was the tories who first suggested we should have an NHS although Atlee had the courage to do it a great man. Since then no tory government has ever planned to nationalise the NHS and the first private elements of privatisation where brought in by labour. Your thinking is deranged as based on zero facts | |||
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"The bigger problem the NHS has is it's overwhelming beauracracy and wastefulness. It needs more efficient management and less red tape. If it was a private business it would have gone bust a long time ago. Red tape is often health and safety issues which protect peoples lives. It's a huge organisation..how is it going to be run with no beaurscy? ,its not private..and it's not a business..its not there to make money. It's not about making money more using the resources it has effectively and efficiently. Pumping vast sums of money in isn't going to be a sensible solution if the key issues aren't addressed. It would be like filling a car up with petrol with a hole in the fuel tank. Every single organisation in the world has issues of inefficiency. True, but government funded ones seem to be the worst. Private companies by nature have to find ways of working effectively within a budget, centrally funded ones do not. It's become quite common for them to become complacent and wasteful knowing that they have a constant source of money. The BBC is another example. Private companies are as inefficient and wasteful as public ones. Budgets get wasted, exactly the same." Not to the same extent, in my experience. The consequences are more pronounced. A private company that wastes it's budget goes out of business. Obviously the amount of waste increases with the size of the company. | |||
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"This government aims to privatise the NHS, and the public voted them in to power knowing they aim to do just that, so no, nothing will change. People who vote Tory are prepared to clap for the NHS, but ask them to do anything more meaningful and they really aren't interested." | |||
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"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? " Not using centralised procurement for supplies | |||
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"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? Not using centralised procurement for supplies " So creating a new centralised procurement office would solve this? Then wondering why this hasn't been done. | |||
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"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? Not using centralised procurement for supplies So creating a new centralised procurement office would solve this? Then wondering why this hasn't been done." Why does one trust pay £1.35 for a pair of gloves and another trust pays £2.04 for the same gloves ? | |||
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"Funding in only part of the problem Waste is unbelievable It’s a completely abused service and most of society just blame funding It’s overwhelmed by Drug abuse Alcohol abuse Overweight poor life style no exercise leading to joint problems diabetes to name a few All of the above have a tie in with mental health Smoking and all the related illness that goes with it If people to more responsibility for life style choices the load on the NHS would be massively reduced As long as people carry on doing this they are trying to fill a bucket up with a hole in the bottom " | |||
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"This government aims to privatise the NHS, and the public voted them in to power knowing they aim to do just that, so no, nothing will change. People who vote Tory are prepared to clap for the NHS, but ask them to do anything more meaningful and they really aren't interested.People still believe this labour election propeganda????????? It seems, sadly, that some still do!This government has never planned to privatise the NHS and this is a total lie put about by left wing liers.If you go back in history it was the tories who first suggested we should have an NHS although Atlee had the courage to do it a great man. Since then no tory government has ever planned to nationalise the NHS and the first private elements of privatisation where brought in by labour. Your thinking is deranged as based on zero facts" I suggest you look at Johnsons speech in 2002 | |||
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"The bigger problem the NHS has is it's overwhelming beauracracy and wastefulness. It needs more efficient management and less red tape. If it was a private business it would have gone bust a long time ago. Red tape is often health and safety issues which protect peoples lives. It's a huge organisation..how is it going to be run with no beaurscy? ,its not private..and it's not a business..its not there to make money. It's not about making money more using the resources it has effectively and efficiently. Pumping vast sums of money in isn't going to be a sensible solution if the key issues aren't addressed. It would be like filling a car up with petrol with a hole in the fuel tank. Every single organisation in the world has issues of inefficiency. True, but government funded ones seem to be the worst. Private companies by nature have to find ways of working effectively within a budget, centrally funded ones do not. It's become quite common for them to become complacent and wasteful knowing that they have a constant source of money. The BBC is another example. Private companies are as inefficient and wasteful as public ones. Budgets get wasted, exactly the same. Not to the same extent, in my experience. The consequences are more pronounced. A private company that wastes it's budget goes out of business. Obviously the amount of waste increases with the size of the company." That was just my experience. Lets cut to the chase here..the Tories dont want free health care. Its that simple | |||
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"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? " Its deflection. The figures are there for everyone to see. I'm still waiting for someone to defend the 6 year pay freeze. | |||
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" Why does one trust pay £1.35 for a pair of gloves and another trust pays £2.04 for the same gloves ?" It should be competitive tendering. But another example - My partner had to have a brace for his knee. The NHS physio suggested that he buy his own from Amazon because the one he really needed they couldn't supply becuase of cost (they supplied a long one and she said he really need the short one). She further said that if she could get permission to buy it it will cost the Trust £798 if you buy it from Amazon it will be mmuch cheaper - So we did buy it from Amazon and it cost £42. | |||
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" I suggest you look at Johnsons speech in 2002" Even if true that would be 18 year old news.  | |||
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" Its deflection. The figures are there for everyone to see. I'm still waiting for someone to defend the 6 year pay freeze." The whole of the UK was in 6 year pay freeze - it was called Austerity.  | |||
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" Its deflection. The figures are there for everyone to see. I'm still waiting for someone to defend the 6 year pay freeze. The whole of the UK was in 6 year pay freeze - it was called Austerity. "If you can defend one of the most destructive policies on recent history be my guest. | |||
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" If you can defend one of the most destructive policies on recent history be my guest. " Oddly it may surprise you to find that I don't need your persmission 
Also find in what I wrote 'that I defend Austerity' 
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"Yes but an immediate increase on taxation to pay for it. 2p on the badic rate. 1p fir NHS. 1p for social care. " This..long overdue.. | |||
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"Yes but an immediate increase on taxation to pay for it. 2p on the badic rate. 1p fir NHS. 1p for social care. This..long overdue.. " All Local Authorities in the UK added a premium to your council tax this year for social care
But a 1p on Tax for general NHS would we welcome | |||
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"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? Not using centralised procurement for supplies So creating a new centralised procurement office would solve this? Then wondering why this hasn't been done." It used to be done centrally - this financially illiterate government abolished the practice. | |||
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"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? " A very close relative was severely unwell 4 years ago and had to temporarily have a line into their chest and 6 times a day they had to self medicate with a drug that came in small glass viles. The drug was supplied via a specialist hospital and it was delivered monthly to my relatives home. Each vile cost £75 and if it hadn't been for that drug they wouldn't be here now. As time went on thier condition improved and the drug was replaced with a less invasive cheaper oral medication. But heres the problem, after the medication had been replaced they still had a 4 weeks supply of the expensive viles left. They called the hospital and were put in touch with the pharmacist in charge of the wards medication. They asked if they could return the drug and he said.. no. Because it had been dispensed it couldn't be returned and used for another patient. He told her to take it to any local chemist who took left over medication and it would be destroyed. So £12,500 of perfectly good in date medication destroyed. The boxes it came in were even sealed in cellophane and it didn't require any special storage conditions. Just one example of complete waste in the nhs. | |||
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"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? A very close relative was severely unwell 4 years ago and had to temporarily have a line into their chest and 6 times a day they had to self medicate with a drug that came in small glass viles. The drug was supplied via a specialist hospital and it was delivered monthly to my relatives home. Each vile cost £75 and if it hadn't been for that drug they wouldn't be here now. As time went on thier condition improved and the drug was replaced with a less invasive cheaper oral medication. But heres the problem, after the medication had been replaced they still had a 4 weeks supply of the expensive viles left. They called the hospital and were put in touch with the pharmacist in charge of the wards medication. They asked if they could return the drug and he said.. no. Because it had been dispensed it couldn't be returned and used for another patient. He told her to take it to any local chemist who took left over medication and it would be destroyed. So £12,500 of perfectly good in date medication destroyed. The boxes it came in were even sealed in cellophane and it didn't require any special storage conditions. Just one example of complete waste in the nhs. " What was the total cost of the medication used? £12,500 will no doubt represent a small proportion. Here’s a clue - the NHS will have calculated, no doubt quite accurately, that the overall cost of time and effort trying to evaluate whether medication is safe for re-dispensing makes the simple process of safe wastage less costly overall. | |||
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"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? Not using centralised procurement for supplies So creating a new centralised procurement office would solve this? Then wondering why this hasn't been done. It used to be done centrally - this financially illiterate government abolished the practice." Wasn't it under a Labour government that NHS supply chain was outsourced? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? A very close relative was severely unwell 4 years ago and had to temporarily have a line into their chest and 6 times a day they had to self medicate with a drug that came in small glass viles. The drug was supplied via a specialist hospital and it was delivered monthly to my relatives home. Each vile cost £75 and if it hadn't been for that drug they wouldn't be here now. As time went on thier condition improved and the drug was replaced with a less invasive cheaper oral medication. But heres the problem, after the medication had been replaced they still had a 4 weeks supply of the expensive viles left. They called the hospital and were put in touch with the pharmacist in charge of the wards medication. They asked if they could return the drug and he said.. no. Because it had been dispensed it couldn't be returned and used for another patient. He told her to take it to any local chemist who took left over medication and it would be destroyed. So £12,500 of perfectly good in date medication destroyed. The boxes it came in were even sealed in cellophane and it didn't require any special storage conditions. Just one example of complete waste in the nhs. " Wouldnt that have been like 2nd hand medicine if it's already been dispensed? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? A very close relative was severely unwell 4 years ago and had to temporarily have a line into their chest and 6 times a day they had to self medicate with a drug that came in small glass viles. The drug was supplied via a specialist hospital and it was delivered monthly to my relatives home. Each vile cost £75 and if it hadn't been for that drug they wouldn't be here now. As time went on thier condition improved and the drug was replaced with a less invasive cheaper oral medication. But heres the problem, after the medication had been replaced they still had a 4 weeks supply of the expensive viles left. They called the hospital and were put in touch with the pharmacist in charge of the wards medication. They asked if they could return the drug and he said.. no. Because it had been dispensed it couldn't be returned and used for another patient. He told her to take it to any local chemist who took left over medication and it would be destroyed. So £12,500 of perfectly good in date medication destroyed. The boxes it came in were even sealed in cellophane and it didn't require any special storage conditions. Just one example of complete waste in the nhs. What was the total cost of the medication used? £12,500 will no doubt represent a small proportion. Here’s a clue - the NHS will have calculated, no doubt quite accurately, that the overall cost of time and effort trying to evaluate whether medication is safe for re-dispensing makes the simple process of safe wastage less costly overall." times that by even a small factor of 100 across a region and your then looking at a much larger issue of avoidable waste | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? A very close relative was severely unwell 4 years ago and had to temporarily have a line into their chest and 6 times a day they had to self medicate with a drug that came in small glass viles. The drug was supplied via a specialist hospital and it was delivered monthly to my relatives home. Each vile cost £75 and if it hadn't been for that drug they wouldn't be here now. As time went on thier condition improved and the drug was replaced with a less invasive cheaper oral medication. But heres the problem, after the medication had been replaced they still had a 4 weeks supply of the expensive viles left. They called the hospital and were put in touch with the pharmacist in charge of the wards medication. They asked if they could return the drug and he said.. no. Because it had been dispensed it couldn't be returned and used for another patient. He told her to take it to any local chemist who took left over medication and it would be destroyed. So £12,500 of perfectly good in date medication destroyed. The boxes it came in were even sealed in cellophane and it didn't require any special storage conditions. Just one example of complete waste in the nhs. What was the total cost of the medication used? £12,500 will no doubt represent a small proportion. Here’s a clue - the NHS will have calculated, no doubt quite accurately, that the overall cost of time and effort trying to evaluate whether medication is safe for re-dispensing makes the simple process of safe wastage less costly overall. times that by even a small factor of 100 across a region and your then looking at a much larger issue of avoidable waste" The relative savings are also multiplied.  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? Not using centralised procurement for supplies So creating a new centralised procurement office would solve this? Then wondering why this hasn't been done. It used to be done centrally - this financially illiterate government abolished the practice. Wasn't it under a Labour government that NHS supply chain was outsourced? " Do you think there may come a point in say..ooh let's say.the next century when the gmnt are actually accountable without blaming the last administration? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? A very close relative was severely unwell 4 years ago and had to temporarily have a line into their chest and 6 times a day they had to self medicate with a drug that came in small glass viles. The drug was supplied via a specialist hospital and it was delivered monthly to my relatives home. Each vile cost £75 and if it hadn't been for that drug they wouldn't be here now. As time went on thier condition improved and the drug was replaced with a less invasive cheaper oral medication. But heres the problem, after the medication had been replaced they still had a 4 weeks supply of the expensive viles left. They called the hospital and were put in touch with the pharmacist in charge of the wards medication. They asked if they could return the drug and he said.. no. Because it had been dispensed it couldn't be returned and used for another patient. He told her to take it to any local chemist who took left over medication and it would be destroyed. So £12,500 of perfectly good in date medication destroyed. The boxes it came in were even sealed in cellophane and it didn't require any special storage conditions. Just one example of complete waste in the nhs. What was the total cost of the medication used? £12,500 will no doubt represent a small proportion. Here’s a clue - the NHS will have calculated, no doubt quite accurately, that the overall cost of time and effort trying to evaluate whether medication is safe for re-dispensing makes the simple process of safe wastage less costly overall. times that by even a small factor of 100 across a region and your then looking at a much larger issue of avoidable waste The relative savings are also multiplied. "it's not an opinion, its economics. fixed costs don't exponentially rise due to volume. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"For what it’s worth here is my take on things: Firstly the NHS are doing a fantastic job and rightly should be thanked and applauded. Nobody could deny them a pay rise after all this. The issue never has been funding, how that funding is spent and prioritised is the problem. Every year since inception funding has increased, albeit not recently at rates we have previously seen. The answer is not always to throw more money at it. The NHS is more stretched than it has ever been, even prior to this. People are living longer and with that an extra burden is created. Add to the mix those who have lifestyle induced health problems and you’ve got a melting pot where everyone in the pot think they are the priority. If you take a look at access rates for A&E and walk in centres in the last few weeks numbers are significantly down. Is this because people are scared of contracting CV19 or they didn’t really need to go in the first place? Germany is being held up as the beacon for an effective health service yet their system involves a degree of private insurance alongside public funding. The minute anyone mentions privatisation people automatically assume we’re talking about the (ridiculous) American model. I think we all need to look at what we expect and demand of our NHS and the NHS themselves need to look at how they can become more efficient. " The NHS, like an oil tsnker, is too large turn around change quickly without major upheaval. With sick people in beds, it's not a simple task to implement any change and over the years, hospitals have gone from working proactively with manageable numbers of patients, to now firefighting with unmanageable demand. Everyone blames the current government but it's taken decades to get here, with many governments at the helm. No government since the 70's has supported the NHS to the degree it required and unforseen changes in lifestyle have happened far quicker than the NHS or government could ever react to.. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? A very close relative was severely unwell 4 years ago and had to temporarily have a line into their chest and 6 times a day they had to self medicate with a drug that came in small glass viles. The drug was supplied via a specialist hospital and it was delivered monthly to my relatives home. Each vile cost £75 and if it hadn't been for that drug they wouldn't be here now. As time went on thier condition improved and the drug was replaced with a less invasive cheaper oral medication. But heres the problem, after the medication had been replaced they still had a 4 weeks supply of the expensive viles left. They called the hospital and were put in touch with the pharmacist in charge of the wards medication. They asked if they could return the drug and he said.. no. Because it had been dispensed it couldn't be returned and used for another patient. He told her to take it to any local chemist who took left over medication and it would be destroyed. So £12,500 of perfectly good in date medication destroyed. The boxes it came in were even sealed in cellophane and it didn't require any special storage conditions. Just one example of complete waste in the nhs. What was the total cost of the medication used? £12,500 will no doubt represent a small proportion. Here’s a clue - the NHS will have calculated, no doubt quite accurately, that the overall cost of time and effort trying to evaluate whether medication is safe for re-dispensing makes the simple process of safe wastage less costly overall. times that by even a small factor of 100 across a region and your then looking at a much larger issue of avoidable waste The relative savings are also multiplied.
it's not an opinion, its economics.
fixed costs don't exponentially rise due to volume.
"Say you get a prescription from the drs..and its already been used(tablets say)half a packet left..would that be acceptable? | |||
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"It's not just the funding aspect that's the issue , it's simply that there's too many people and not enough hospitals . We probably need 50 - 100 more hospitals to cope with the demand for the next 50 years as population will continue to increase rapidly . And lifestyle choices of individuals plays a part too . Yes funding is part of it but not the overall biggest factor ." I'd say funding was the biggest issue tbh. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? A very close relative was severely unwell 4 years ago and had to temporarily have a line into their chest and 6 times a day they had to self medicate with a drug that came in small glass viles. The drug was supplied via a specialist hospital and it was delivered monthly to my relatives home. Each vile cost £75 and if it hadn't been for that drug they wouldn't be here now. As time went on thier condition improved and the drug was replaced with a less invasive cheaper oral medication. But heres the problem, after the medication had been replaced they still had a 4 weeks supply of the expensive viles left. They called the hospital and were put in touch with the pharmacist in charge of the wards medication. They asked if they could return the drug and he said.. no. Because it had been dispensed it couldn't be returned and used for another patient. He told her to take it to any local chemist who took left over medication and it would be destroyed. So £12,500 of perfectly good in date medication destroyed. The boxes it came in were even sealed in cellophane and it didn't require any special storage conditions. Just one example of complete waste in the nhs. What was the total cost of the medication used? £12,500 will no doubt represent a small proportion. Here’s a clue - the NHS will have calculated, no doubt quite accurately, that the overall cost of time and effort trying to evaluate whether medication is safe for re-dispensing makes the simple process of safe wastage less costly overall. times that by even a small factor of 100 across a region and your then looking at a much larger issue of avoidable waste The relative savings are also multiplied.
it's not an opinion, its economics.
fixed costs don't exponentially rise due to volume.
"That’s right - and testing by variable volume is not a fixed cost. Anything else? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? Not using centralised procurement for supplies So creating a new centralised procurement office would solve this? Then wondering why this hasn't been done. It used to be done centrally - this financially illiterate government abolished the practice. Wasn't it under a Labour government that NHS supply chain was outsourced? Do you think there may come a point in say..ooh let's say.the next century when the gmnt are actually accountable without blaming the last administration?" if the answer to the question " was NHS procurement centralised until a Labour government changed it and outsourced it" then thats the answer. Nobody can change it, its not an excuse, its not point scoring - its the answer. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"For what it’s worth here is my take on things: Firstly the NHS are doing a fantastic job and rightly should be thanked and applauded. Nobody could deny them a pay rise after all this. The issue never has been funding, how that funding is spent and prioritised is the problem. Every year since inception funding has increased, albeit not recently at rates we have previously seen. The answer is not always to throw more money at it. The NHS is more stretched than it has ever been, even prior to this. People are living longer and with that an extra burden is created. Add to the mix those who have lifestyle induced health problems and you’ve got a melting pot where everyone in the pot think they are the priority. If you take a look at access rates for A&E and walk in centres in the last few weeks numbers are significantly down. Is this because people are scared of contracting CV19 or they didn’t really need to go in the first place? Germany is being held up as the beacon for an effective health service yet their system involves a degree of private insurance alongside public funding. The minute anyone mentions privatisation people automatically assume we’re talking about the (ridiculous) American model. I think we all need to look at what we expect and demand of our NHS and the NHS themselves need to look at how they can become more efficient. The NHS, like an oil tsnker, is too large turn around change quickly without major upheaval. With sick people in beds, it's not a simple task to implement any change and over the years, hospitals have gone from working proactively with manageable numbers of patients, to now firefighting with unmanageable demand. Everyone blames the current government but it's taken decades to get here, with many governments at the helm. No government since the 70's has supported the NHS to the degree it required and unforseen changes in lifestyle have happened far quicker than the NHS or government could ever react to.. " And there are some administrations that have been worse than others. This administration, since 2010, has demonstrably been the worst. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? Not using centralised procurement for supplies So creating a new centralised procurement office would solve this? Then wondering why this hasn't been done. It used to be done centrally - this financially illiterate government abolished the practice. Wasn't it under a Labour government that NHS supply chain was outsourced? Do you think there may come a point in say..ooh let's say.the next century when the gmnt are actually accountable without blaming the last administration? if the answer to the question " was NHS procurement centralised until a Labour government changed it and outsourced it" then thats the answer. Nobody can change it, its not an excuse, its not point scoring - its the answer. " So why hasnt it been changed in the last 10 years? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"For what it’s worth here is my take on things: Firstly the NHS are doing a fantastic job and rightly should be thanked and applauded. Nobody could deny them a pay rise after all this. The issue never has been funding, how that funding is spent and prioritised is the problem. Every year since inception funding has increased, albeit not recently at rates we have previously seen. The answer is not always to throw more money at it. The NHS is more stretched than it has ever been, even prior to this. People are living longer and with that an extra burden is created. Add to the mix those who have lifestyle induced health problems and you’ve got a melting pot where everyone in the pot think they are the priority. If you take a look at access rates for A&E and walk in centres in the last few weeks numbers are significantly down. Is this because people are scared of contracting CV19 or they didn’t really need to go in the first place? Germany is being held up as the beacon for an effective health service yet their system involves a degree of private insurance alongside public funding. The minute anyone mentions privatisation people automatically assume we’re talking about the (ridiculous) American model. I think we all need to look at what we expect and demand of our NHS and the NHS themselves need to look at how they can become more efficient. The NHS, like an oil tsnker, is too large turn around change quickly without major upheaval. With sick people in beds, it's not a simple task to implement any change and over the years, hospitals have gone from working proactively with manageable numbers of patients, to now firefighting with unmanageable demand. Everyone blames the current government but it's taken decades to get here, with many governments at the helm. No government since the 70's has supported the NHS to the degree it required and unforseen changes in lifestyle have happened far quicker than the NHS or government could ever react to.. And there are some administrations that have been worse than others. This administration, since 2010, has demonstrably been the worst." Its whataboutery at it's worse. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? A very close relative was severely unwell 4 years ago and had to temporarily have a line into their chest and 6 times a day they had to self medicate with a drug that came in small glass viles. The drug was supplied via a specialist hospital and it was delivered monthly to my relatives home. Each vile cost £75 and if it hadn't been for that drug they wouldn't be here now. As time went on thier condition improved and the drug was replaced with a less invasive cheaper oral medication. But heres the problem, after the medication had been replaced they still had a 4 weeks supply of the expensive viles left. They called the hospital and were put in touch with the pharmacist in charge of the wards medication. They asked if they could return the drug and he said.. no. Because it had been dispensed it couldn't be returned and used for another patient. He told her to take it to any local chemist who took left over medication and it would be destroyed. So £12,500 of perfectly good in date medication destroyed. The boxes it came in were even sealed in cellophane and it didn't require any special storage conditions. Just one example of complete waste in the nhs. What was the total cost of the medication used? £12,500 will no doubt represent a small proportion. Here’s a clue - the NHS will have calculated, no doubt quite accurately, that the overall cost of time and effort trying to evaluate whether medication is safe for re-dispensing makes the simple process of safe wastage less costly overall. times that by even a small factor of 100 across a region and your then looking at a much larger issue of avoidable waste The relative savings are also multiplied.
it's not an opinion, its economics.
fixed costs don't exponentially rise due to volume.
That’s right - and testing by variable volume is not a fixed cost.
Anything else?
"Unlikely, as i suspect if i said black, you would say white. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? Not using centralised procurement for supplies So creating a new centralised procurement office would solve this? Then wondering why this hasn't been done. It used to be done centrally - this financially illiterate government abolished the practice. Wasn't it under a Labour government that NHS supply chain was outsourced? Do you think there may come a point in say..ooh let's say.the next century when the gmnt are actually accountable without blaming the last administration? if the answer to the question " was NHS procurement centralised until a Labour government changed it and outsourced it" then thats the answer. Nobody can change it, its not an excuse, its not point scoring - its the answer. So why hasnt it been changed in the last 10 years?" It is in the process of changing | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? Not using centralised procurement for supplies So creating a new centralised procurement office would solve this? Then wondering why this hasn't been done. It used to be done centrally - this financially illiterate government abolished the practice. Wasn't it under a Labour government that NHS supply chain was outsourced? Do you think there may come a point in say..ooh let's say.the next century when the gmnt are actually accountable without blaming the last administration? if the answer to the question " was NHS procurement centralised until a Labour government changed it and outsourced it" then thats the answer. Nobody can change it, its not an excuse, its not point scoring - its the answer. So why hasnt it been changed in the last 10 years? It is in the process of changing" Rigtio. Obviously been very busy this last decade. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? Not using centralised procurement for supplies So creating a new centralised procurement office would solve this? Then wondering why this hasn't been done. It used to be done centrally - this financially illiterate government abolished the practice. Wasn't it under a Labour government that NHS supply chain was outsourced? Do you think there may come a point in say..ooh let's say.the next century when the gmnt are actually accountable without blaming the last administration? if the answer to the question " was NHS procurement centralised until a Labour government changed it and outsourced it" then thats the answer. Nobody can change it, its not an excuse, its not point scoring - its the answer. So why hasnt it been changed in the last 10 years? It is in the process of changing Rigtio. Obviously been very busy this last decade." Yes, sorting out the shit pile that was left by the last Labour government | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? Not using centralised procurement for supplies So creating a new centralised procurement office would solve this? Then wondering why this hasn't been done. It used to be done centrally - this financially illiterate government abolished the practice. Wasn't it under a Labour government that NHS supply chain was outsourced? Do you think there may come a point in say..ooh let's say.the next century when the gmnt are actually accountable without blaming the last administration? if the answer to the question " was NHS procurement centralised until a Labour government changed it and outsourced it" then thats the answer. Nobody can change it, its not an excuse, its not point scoring - its the answer. So why hasnt it been changed in the last 10 years? It is in the process of changing Rigtio. Obviously been very busy this last decade. Yes, sorting out the shit pile that was left by the last Labour government " Course they were..labour bankrupt the country etc etc | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? Not using centralised procurement for supplies So creating a new centralised procurement office would solve this? Then wondering why this hasn't been done. It used to be done centrally - this financially illiterate government abolished the practice. Wasn't it under a Labour government that NHS supply chain was outsourced? Do you think there may come a point in say..ooh let's say.the next century when the gmnt are actually accountable without blaming the last administration? if the answer to the question " was NHS procurement centralised until a Labour government changed it and outsourced it" then thats the answer. Nobody can change it, its not an excuse, its not point scoring - its the answer. So why hasnt it been changed in the last 10 years? It is in the process of changing Rigtio. Obviously been very busy this last decade. Yes, sorting out the shit pile that was left by the last Labour government Course they were..labour bankrupt the country etc etc" Didn't they? Labour themselves will tell you they did. But wait, that was New Labour and they don't really count, right? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? Not using centralised procurement for supplies So creating a new centralised procurement office would solve this? Then wondering why this hasn't been done. It used to be done centrally - this financially illiterate government abolished the practice. Wasn't it under a Labour government that NHS supply chain was outsourced? Do you think there may come a point in say..ooh let's say.the next century when the gmnt are actually accountable without blaming the last administration? if the answer to the question " was NHS procurement centralised until a Labour government changed it and outsourced it" then thats the answer. Nobody can change it, its not an excuse, its not point scoring - its the answer. So why hasnt it been changed in the last 10 years? It is in the process of changing Rigtio. Obviously been very busy this last decade. Yes, sorting out the shit pile that was left by the last Labour government Course they were..labour bankrupt the country etc etc Didn't they? Labour themselves will tell you they did. But wait, that was New Labour and they don't really count, right?" Labour will say they totally trashed the economy..evidence? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? Not using centralised procurement for supplies So creating a new centralised procurement office would solve this? Then wondering why this hasn't been done. It used to be done centrally - this financially illiterate government abolished the practice. Wasn't it under a Labour government that NHS supply chain was outsourced? Do you think there may come a point in say..ooh let's say.the next century when the gmnt are actually accountable without blaming the last administration? if the answer to the question " was NHS procurement centralised until a Labour government changed it and outsourced it" then thats the answer. Nobody can change it, its not an excuse, its not point scoring - its the answer. So why hasnt it been changed in the last 10 years? It is in the process of changing Rigtio. Obviously been very busy this last decade. Yes, sorting out the shit pile that was left by the last Labour government Course they were..labour bankrupt the country etc etc Didn't they? Labour themselves will tell you they did. But wait, that was New Labour and they don't really count, right? Labour will say they totally trashed the economy..evidence?" How about the note they left behind? | |||
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"Do you think once the pandemic is over the public will realise and demand that more investment and support is given to the NHS? Should the wages increase for everyone from the porter or cleaner to the doctors and nurses and all those that work in it? What are your thoughts and views? " I think the NHS should be apolitical. All parties should agree that the minimum funding be a % of the GDP. As for wage increases, some NHS employees do earn enough, it's about recognising those who don't - for example, newly qualified (degree) nurses do not earn what other degree professionals do (perhaps someone can source this). Their wages are still on par when the majority of nurses qualified at diploma level. | |||
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"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? Not using centralised procurement for supplies So creating a new centralised procurement office would solve this? Then wondering why this hasn't been done. It used to be done centrally - this financially illiterate government abolished the practice. Wasn't it under a Labour government that NHS supply chain was outsourced? Do you think there may come a point in say..ooh let's say.the next century when the gmnt are actually accountable without blaming the last administration? if the answer to the question " was NHS procurement centralised until a Labour government changed it and outsourced it" then thats the answer. Nobody can change it, its not an excuse, its not point scoring - its the answer. So why hasnt it been changed in the last 10 years? It is in the process of changing Rigtio. Obviously been very busy this last decade. Yes, sorting out the shit pile that was left by the last Labour government Course they were..labour bankrupt the country etc etc Didn't they? Labour themselves will tell you they did. But wait, that was New Labour and they don't really count, right? Labour will say they totally trashed the economy..evidence?" How about the war and the 2008 recession? That's just 2 things | |||
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"The NHS has been underfunded for years now but does need more front line staff than mangerment Give them tools to do there job But we as patients should help too there are far to many minor injuries ie something you can treat yourself at home when i was a kid very rare u saw a doctor or hospital And stop smoking and eating garbage ! " The nutrition element is huuuuuuge, no pun | |||
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"Old news here. Maybe dont swamp the NHS in Paperwork and let them.do there jobs Just like any other goverment stop swamping them with paperwork and just let them do there jobs. "Sadly, if it isn't recorded, it hasn't been done. It's so the CCGs know they are getting their money's worth. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? Not using centralised procurement for supplies So creating a new centralised procurement office would solve this? Then wondering why this hasn't been done. It used to be done centrally - this financially illiterate government abolished the practice. Wasn't it under a Labour government that NHS supply chain was outsourced? Do you think there may come a point in say..ooh let's say.the next century when the gmnt are actually accountable without blaming the last administration? if the answer to the question " was NHS procurement centralised until a Labour government changed it and outsourced it" then thats the answer. Nobody can change it, its not an excuse, its not point scoring - its the answer. So why hasnt it been changed in the last 10 years? It is in the process of changing Rigtio. Obviously been very busy this last decade. Yes, sorting out the shit pile that was left by the last Labour government Course they were..labour bankrupt the country etc etc Didn't they? Labour themselves will tell you they did. But wait, that was New Labour and they don't really count, right? Labour will say they totally trashed the economy..evidence? How about the war and the 2008 recession? That's just 2 things" Gold? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? Not using centralised procurement for supplies So creating a new centralised procurement office would solve this? Then wondering why this hasn't been done. It used to be done centrally - this financially illiterate government abolished the practice. Wasn't it under a Labour government that NHS supply chain was outsourced? Do you think there may come a point in say..ooh let's say.the next century when the gmnt are actually accountable without blaming the last administration? if the answer to the question " was NHS procurement centralised until a Labour government changed it and outsourced it" then thats the answer. Nobody can change it, its not an excuse, its not point scoring - its the answer. So why hasnt it been changed in the last 10 years? It is in the process of changing Rigtio. Obviously been very busy this last decade. Yes, sorting out the shit pile that was left by the last Labour government Course they were..labour bankrupt the country etc etc Didn't they? Labour themselves will tell you they did. But wait, that was New Labour and they don't really count, right? Labour will say they totally trashed the economy..evidence? How about the war and the 2008 recession? That's just 2 things" Presumably you are referring to the global economic meltdown which began in America? Labour's fault of course. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? Not using centralised procurement for supplies So creating a new centralised procurement office would solve this? Then wondering why this hasn't been done. It used to be done centrally - this financially illiterate government abolished the practice. Wasn't it under a Labour government that NHS supply chain was outsourced? Do you think there may come a point in say..ooh let's say.the next century when the gmnt are actually accountable without blaming the last administration? if the answer to the question " was NHS procurement centralised until a Labour government changed it and outsourced it" then thats the answer. Nobody can change it, its not an excuse, its not point scoring - its the answer. So why hasnt it been changed in the last 10 years? It is in the process of changing Rigtio. Obviously been very busy this last decade. Yes, sorting out the shit pile that was left by the last Labour government Course they were..labour bankrupt the country etc etc Didn't they? Labour themselves will tell you they did. But wait, that was New Labour and they don't really count, right? Labour will say they totally trashed the economy..evidence? How about the war and the 2008 recession? That's just 2 things Presumably you are referring to the global economic meltdown which began in America? Labour's fault of course." Maybe it wasn't Labour who started. Don't remember them doing much to help the layman during it though | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The NHS has been underfunded for years now but does need more front line staff than mangerment Give them tools to do there job But we as patients should help too there are far to many minor injuries ie something you can treat yourself at home when i was a kid very rare u saw a doctor or hospital And stop smoking and eating garbage ! The nutrition element is huuuuuuge, no pun "Exactly. Public health issues start way before the NHS...poverty is an almost incalculable factor. But this government won’t be making improvements in those areas any time soon. | |||
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"The person who left the note claims it was a private joke. A similar note was left by the Macmillan administration in 1974" For goodness sake...
you deleted your "it was a piss take" post thankfully
Here's some facts about the note, written in The Guardian by the man himself.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/liam-byrne-apology-letter-there-is-no-money-labour-general-election
Your welcome | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? Not using centralised procurement for supplies So creating a new centralised procurement office would solve this? Then wondering why this hasn't been done. It used to be done centrally - this financially illiterate government abolished the practice. Wasn't it under a Labour government that NHS supply chain was outsourced? Do you think there may come a point in say..ooh let's say.the next century when the gmnt are actually accountable without blaming the last administration? if the answer to the question " was NHS procurement centralised until a Labour government changed it and outsourced it" then thats the answer. Nobody can change it, its not an excuse, its not point scoring - its the answer. So why hasnt it been changed in the last 10 years? It is in the process of changing Rigtio. Obviously been very busy this last decade. Yes, sorting out the shit pile that was left by the last Labour government Course they were..labour bankrupt the country etc etc Didn't they? Labour themselves will tell you they did. But wait, that was New Labour and they don't really count, right? Labour will say they totally trashed the economy..evidence? How about the war and the 2008 recession? That's just 2 things Presumably you are referring to the global economic meltdown which began in America? Labour's fault of course. Maybe it wasn't Labour who started. Don't remember them doing much to help the layman during it though" No they had to bailout the banks who caused the fucking thing in the 1st place | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The person who left the note claims it was a private joke. A similar note was left by the Macmillan administration in 1974 For goodness sake...
you deleted your "it was a piss take" post thankfully
Here's some facts about the note, written in The Guardian by the man himself.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/liam-byrne-apology-letter-there-is-no-money-labour-general-election
Your welcome "I can't open the link on my phone. Presumably it's the same guardian piece of just read saying the letter was left in 'jest'? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Funding in only part of the problem Waste is unbelievable It’s a completely abused service and most of society just blame funding It’s overwhelmed by Drug abuse Alcohol abuse Overweight poor life style no exercise leading to joint problems diabetes to name a few All of the above have a tie in with mental health Smoking and all the related illness that goes with it If people to more responsibility for life style choices the load on the NHS would be massively reduced As long as people carry on doing this they are trying to fill a bucket up with a hole in the bottom " If people were to read the NHS constitution, they'd know that we individuals are responsible for our own health, ie healthy lifestyles, and that the NHS is there for when things go wrong, education, preventative medicine and obstetrics. Sadly education of healthy living is often "ignored". | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The person who left the note claims it was a private joke. A similar note was left by the Macmillan administration in 1974 For goodness sake...
you deleted your "it was a piss take" post thankfully
Here's some facts about the note, written in The Guardian by the man himself.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/liam-byrne-apology-letter-there-is-no-money-labour-general-election
Your welcome "All of that seems to show that it wasn’t Labour who ‘trashed the economy’ - have you actually read it? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The person who left the note claims it was a private joke. A similar note was left by the Macmillan administration in 1974 For goodness sake...
you deleted your "it was a piss take" post thankfully
Here's some facts about the note, written in The Guardian by the man himself.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/liam-byrne-apology-letter-there-is-no-money-labour-general-election
Your welcome
All of that seems to show that it wasn’t Labour who ‘trashed the economy’ - have you actually read it?"It's a piss take note but apparently its 'concrete evidence'they trashed the economy. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The person who left the note claims it was a private joke. A similar note was left by the Macmillan administration in 1974 For goodness sake...
you deleted your "it was a piss take" post thankfully
Here's some facts about the note, written in The Guardian by the man himself.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/liam-byrne-apology-letter-there-is-no-money-labour-general-election
Your welcome
All of that seems to show that it wasn’t Labour who ‘trashed the economy’ - have you actually read it?
It's a piss take note but apparently its 'concrete evidence'they trashed the economy."You asked for evidence, I couldn’t have referred you to anything more concrete. As it doesn’t fit your agenda you’ve chosen to discount it. | |||
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"This government aims to privatise the NHS, and the public voted them in to power knowing they aim to do just that, so no, nothing will change. People who vote Tory are prepared to clap for the NHS, but ask them to do anything more meaningful and they really aren't interested.People still believe this labour election propeganda????????? It seems, sadly, that some still do! https://fullfact.org/health/spending-english-nhs/ The last graph showing the different spending levels across the governments of the last 50 years says it all." Very interesting. I wonder what caused the spike in the Thatcher years. Also, albeit it dependent upon how the money was spent, but the best funding was during the Blair years. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The person who left the note claims it was a private joke. A similar note was left by the Macmillan administration in 1974 For goodness sake...
you deleted your "it was a piss take" post thankfully
Here's some facts about the note, written in The Guardian by the man himself.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/liam-byrne-apology-letter-there-is-no-money-labour-general-election
Your welcome
All of that seems to show that it wasn’t Labour who ‘trashed the economy’ - have you actually read it?
It's a piss take note but apparently its 'concrete evidence'they trashed the economy.
You asked for evidence, I couldn’t have referred you to anything more concrete. As it doesn’t fit your agenda you’ve chosen to discount it. "So no..you didnt read it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This government aims to privatise the NHS, and the public voted them in to power knowing they aim to do just that, so no, nothing will change. People who vote Tory are prepared to clap for the NHS, but ask them to do anything more meaningful and they really aren't interested.your source of proof for this is? Or is this just what you think? Clapping for the NHS in no way makes amends for voting Tory. I agree with the general gist that the Tories will not change their policy on the NHS after this crisis is over. They will plough on with its slow painful downfall until Brexit comes and forces it to be sold off to American companies. As per the original Brexit plans." Source those plans please. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The person who left the note claims it was a private joke. A similar note was left by the Macmillan administration in 1974 For goodness sake...
you deleted your "it was a piss take" post thankfully
Here's some facts about the note, written in The Guardian by the man himself.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/liam-byrne-apology-letter-there-is-no-money-labour-general-election
Your welcome
I can't open the link on my phone.
Presumably it's the same guardian piece of just read saying the letter was left in 'jest'?"No This article is from the horses mouth, and doesn't use the word jest once. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"For what it’s worth here is my take on things: Firstly the NHS are doing a fantastic job and rightly should be thanked and applauded. Nobody could deny them a pay rise after all this. The issue never has been funding, how that funding is spent and prioritised is the problem. Every year since inception funding has increased, albeit not recently at rates we have previously seen. The answer is not always to throw more money at it. The NHS is more stretched than it has ever been, even prior to this. People are living longer and with that an extra burden is created. Add to the mix those who have lifestyle induced health problems and you’ve got a melting pot where everyone in the pot think they are the priority. If you take a look at access rates for A&E and walk in centres in the last few weeks numbers are significantly down. Is this because people are scared of contracting CV19 or they didn’t really need to go in the first place? Germany is being held up as the beacon for an effective health service yet their system involves a degree of private insurance alongside public funding. The minute anyone mentions privatisation people automatically assume we’re talking about the (ridiculous) American model. I think we all need to look at what we expect and demand of our NHS and the NHS themselves need to look at how they can become more efficient. " Where on earth are you getting the ridiculous notion funding has been increased (in real terms) since inception? | |||
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"The bigger problem the NHS has is it's overwhelming beauracracy and wastefulness. It needs more efficient management and less red tape. If it was a private business it would have gone bust a long time ago." The pilot hospital did. It was handed back to the NHS to run. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The person who left the note claims it was a private joke. A similar note was left by the Macmillan administration in 1974 For goodness sake...
you deleted your "it was a piss take" post thankfully
Here's some facts about the note, written in The Guardian by the man himself.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/liam-byrne-apology-letter-there-is-no-money-labour-general-election
Your welcome
I can't open the link on my phone.
Presumably it's the same guardian piece of just read saying the letter was left in 'jest'?
No
This article is from the horses mouth, and doesn't use the word jest once."Byrne said The letter was meant in jest Exact words | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"For what it’s worth here is my take on things: Firstly the NHS are doing a fantastic job and rightly should be thanked and applauded. Nobody could deny them a pay rise after all this. The issue never has been funding, how that funding is spent and prioritised is the problem. Every year since inception funding has increased, albeit not recently at rates we have previously seen. The answer is not always to throw more money at it. The NHS is more stretched than it has ever been, even prior to this. People are living longer and with that an extra burden is created. Add to the mix those who have lifestyle induced health problems and you’ve got a melting pot where everyone in the pot think they are the priority. If you take a look at access rates for A&E and walk in centres in the last few weeks numbers are significantly down. Is this because people are scared of contracting CV19 or they didn’t really need to go in the first place? Germany is being held up as the beacon for an effective health service yet their system involves a degree of private insurance alongside public funding. The minute anyone mentions privatisation people automatically assume we’re talking about the (ridiculous) American model. I think we all need to look at what we expect and demand of our NHS and the NHS themselves need to look at how they can become more efficient. Where on earth are you getting the ridiculous notion funding has been increased (in real terms) since inception? " It's a total falsehood. | |||
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"I find that it’s quite easy to blame the lack of funding however do people consider that when they go to A and E for something that could have waited until the following day? Or what about when they miss their appointments? Prescriptions for things you can get over the counter. Calling an ambulance when you could get yourself to hospital. Look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves "I have a true story - lady phones 999. Paramedics agree she should be seen at hospital. Lady tells paramedic to come back as she's waiting for a visitor. It isn't a bloody taxi service! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The person who left the note claims it was a private joke. A similar note was left by the Macmillan administration in 1974 For goodness sake...
you deleted your "it was a piss take" post thankfully
Here's some facts about the note, written in The Guardian by the man himself.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/liam-byrne-apology-letter-there-is-no-money-labour-general-election
Your welcome
All of that seems to show that it wasn’t Labour who ‘trashed the economy’ - have you actually read it?"As i have actually read it, thats why i posted it, it interestingly mentions that in response to the bad state of the country, "the responsible thing to do was draw up a long-term plan to cut spending." Would long term spending cuts be classed as austerity? I guess the incoming new government just picked up "the responsible thing to do" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I find that it’s quite easy to blame the lack of funding however do people consider that when they go to A and E for something that could have waited until the following day? Or what about when they miss their appointments? Prescriptions for things you can get over the counter. Calling an ambulance when you could get yourself to hospital. Look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves
It's also quite true.The figures are there in black and white.
It's hardly The NHS'fault if people miss appointments.
And no one mentions the 6 year pay freeze when this is discussed.
Just a load of deflection and nonsense about "bureaucracy 'and red tape."No, it's not their fault as a system but sometimes the appointment is "there" but the patient hasn't been informed. Another true story. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The person who left the note claims it was a private joke. A similar note was left by the Macmillan administration in 1974 For goodness sake...
you deleted your "it was a piss take" post thankfully
Here's some facts about the note, written in The Guardian by the man himself.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/liam-byrne-apology-letter-there-is-no-money-labour-general-election
Your welcome
I can't open the link on my phone.
Presumably it's the same guardian piece of just read saying the letter was left in 'jest'?
No
This article is from the horses mouth, and doesn't use the word jest once.
Byrne said The letter was meant in jest
Exact words"I’m not sure that defence would work in law but I don’t doubt it was. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The person who left the note claims it was a private joke. A similar note was left by the Macmillan administration in 1974 For goodness sake...
you deleted your "it was a piss take" post thankfully
Here's some facts about the note, written in The Guardian by the man himself.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/liam-byrne-apology-letter-there-is-no-money-labour-general-election
Your welcome
All of that seems to show that it wasn’t Labour who ‘trashed the economy’ - have you actually read it?
As i have actually read it, thats why i posted it, it interestingly mentions that in response to the bad state of the country, "the responsible thing to do was draw up a long-term plan to cut spending." Would long term spending cuts be classed as austerity?
I guess the incoming new government just picked up "the responsible thing to do"
"I think they would have probably cut back..I dont think they would have made the savage cuts the Tories made. | |||
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"The nhs has been used as a political football for decades lets hope after this is over boris and starmer can come to agreement across parties how to move forward.I actually think these two could work together to achieve it." And this is exactly why these fundamental things like the NHS, education and policing should not be down to the party in power. There cannot be any long term strategic planning when all they think about is there 4/5 years. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I find that it’s quite easy to blame the lack of funding however do people consider that when they go to A and E for something that could have waited until the following day? Or what about when they miss their appointments? Prescriptions for things you can get over the counter. Calling an ambulance when you could get yourself to hospital. Look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves
It's also quite true.The figures are there in black and white.
It's hardly The NHS'fault if people miss appointments.
And no one mentions the 6 year pay freeze when this is discussed.
Just a load of deflection and nonsense about "bureaucracy 'and red tape.
No, it's not their fault as a system but sometimes the appointment is "there" but the patient hasn't been informed. Another true story. "It's a massive organisation and there a bound to be errors and money is going to be wasted. Thats not an excuse for the cuts imo. | |||
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"The nhs has been used as a political football for decades lets hope after this is over boris and starmer can come to agreement across parties how to move forward.I actually think these two could work together to achieve it." By this do you mean Starmer should not oppose Boris's plans to sell off the NHS to his US funders and pals? | |||
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"The NHS has moved on so far from it's original aim as medicine has evolved. Let's face it now it's doing, cosmetic surgery correction, tattoo removal, along with all the mental, elderly, infirm and disability care its expected to provide it was designed and aimed at providing a free medical system to treat Ill and injured people. Not someone who had an ex's name inked on there arm and now wants it removed. Society and its expectations have changed so much from the original concept and design of the NHS its unbelievable that people expect it to be the best. When the idea was conceived elderly and disabled where looked after by family where now the NHS is expected to carry and fund the burden, same with someone who went abroad or to dubious practices for cheap cosmetic surgery that's gone wrong. Or who pays to skip the que for an operation but expects the NHS to do all the post op care. The extra services it now provides from the original concept is staggering." Source it. | |||
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"Do you think once the pandemic is over the public will realise and demand that more investment and support is given to the NHS? Should the wages increase for everyone from the porter or cleaner to the doctors and nurses and all those that work in it? What are your thoughts and views? " Coming out of this hopefully the NHS will be in a better place than it has been before it and people’s minds focused on why it’s so valuable. Going forward I’d like to see it amalgamated into one organisation rather lots off smaller organisations under one umbrella. All with the same systems running across it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The person who left the note claims it was a private joke. A similar note was left by the Macmillan administration in 1974 For goodness sake...
you deleted your "it was a piss take" post thankfully
Here's some facts about the note, written in The Guardian by the man himself.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/liam-byrne-apology-letter-there-is-no-money-labour-general-election
Your welcome
I can't open the link on my phone.
Presumably it's the same guardian piece of just read saying the letter was left in 'jest'?
No
This article is from the horses mouth, and doesn't use the word jest once.
Byrne said The letter was meant in jest
Exact words"Are you suggesting what he wrote in The Guardian is false? Actually... hang on... this is madness why on earth am i even engaging with you when you haven't even read the source I have provided... and yet you don't even provide a linked source, and will no doubt use a feeble excuse that you cant read or do links from your mobile No more, done! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The person who left the note claims it was a private joke. A similar note was left by the Macmillan administration in 1974 For goodness sake...
you deleted your "it was a piss take" post thankfully
Here's some facts about the note, written in The Guardian by the man himself.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/liam-byrne-apology-letter-there-is-no-money-labour-general-election
Your welcome
I can't open the link on my phone.
Presumably it's the same guardian piece of just read saying the letter was left in 'jest'?
No
This article is from the horses mouth, and doesn't use the word jest once.
Byrne said The letter was meant in jest
Exact words
Are you suggesting what he wrote in The Guardian is false?
Actually... hang on... this is madness why on earth am i even engaging with you when you haven't even read the source I have provided... and yet you don't even provide a linked source, and will no doubt use a feeble excuse that you cant read or do links from your mobile
No more, done!"I havent got a fucking clue what you are on about. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? Not using centralised procurement for supplies So creating a new centralised procurement office would solve this? Then wondering why this hasn't been done. Why does one trust pay £1.35 for a pair of gloves and another trust pays £2.04 for the same gloves ?" How do you know they're the same gloves? It could be latex vs polydoodah in theatre? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? Not using centralised procurement for supplies So creating a new centralised procurement office would solve this? Then wondering why this hasn't been done. Why does one trust pay £1.35 for a pair of gloves and another trust pays £2.04 for the same gloves ? How do you know they're the same gloves? It could be latex vs polydoodah in theatre? " The polydoodah are even more expensive 
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"The nhs has been used as a political football for decades lets hope after this is over boris and starmer can come to agreement across parties how to move forward.I actually think these two could work together to achieve it. By this do you mean Starmer should not oppose Boris's plans to sell off the NHS to his US funders and pals?" where is your proof of this? Where is the source for the brexit plan that you state shows the sale? Do you have a source or proof for these statements or are they just your feelings and interpretation of things? | |||
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"I find that it’s quite easy to blame the lack of funding however do people consider that when they go to A and E for something that could have waited until the following day? Or what about when they miss their appointments? Prescriptions for things you can get over the counter. Calling an ambulance when you could get yourself to hospital. Look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves
It's also quite true.The figures are there in black and white.
It's hardly The NHS'fault if people miss appointments.
And no one mentions the 6 year pay freeze when this is discussed.
Just a load of deflection and nonsense about "bureaucracy 'and red tape.
No, it's not their fault as a system but sometimes the appointment is "there" but the patient hasn't been informed. Another true story.
It's a massive organisation and there a bound to be errors and money is going to be wasted.
Thats not an excuse for the cuts imo."I'm simply pointing out human error. | |||
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"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? Not using centralised procurement for supplies So creating a new centralised procurement office would solve this? Then wondering why this hasn't been done. Why does one trust pay £1.35 for a pair of gloves and another trust pays £2.04 for the same gloves ? How do you know they're the same gloves? It could be latex vs polydoodah in theatre? The polydoodah are even more expensive
"Trust me to need expensive ones  | |||
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"The nhs has been used as a political football for decades lets hope after this is over boris and starmer can come to agreement across parties how to move forward.I actually think these two could work together to achieve it. By this do you mean Starmer should not oppose Boris's plans to sell off the NHS to his US funders and pals?where is your proof of this? Where is the source for the brexit plan that you state shows the sale? Do you have a source or proof for these statements or are they just your feelings and interpretation of things?" Trump is on record saying he wants to buy it. Johnson in The past has said he wants to break it off. He is on record discussing it with private health firms. Its partially privatised now. None of this proof but can you honestly say in 10 years time the nhs will be as it is now? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? Its deflection. The figures are there for everyone to see. I'm still waiting for someone to defend the 6 year pay freeze." It was a 5 year pay freeze followed by a 1% rise that was effectively useless as the cost of living went up more than that. We also had our pensions reviewed so that we would pay in more over a longer period and get less out at the end. On top of that the car park charges increased, most people agree that we shouldn’t have to pay car park charges but what most people don’t know is that the hospitals don’t own the car parks anymore, the last labour government sold the car parks to private companies to try to balance the books. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? Its deflection. The figures are there for everyone to see. I'm still waiting for someone to defend the 6 year pay freeze. It was a 5 year pay freeze followed by a 1% rise that was effectively useless as the cost of living went up more than that. We also had our pensions reviewed so that we would pay in more over a longer period and get less out at the end. On top of that the car park charges increased, most people agree that we shouldn’t have to pay car park charges but what most people don’t know is that the hospitals don’t own the car parks anymore, the last labour government sold the car parks to private companies to try to balance the books. " We don’t pay for the car parking we pay for the privilege of looking for a car parking space | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The nhs has been used as a political football for decades lets hope after this is over boris and starmer can come to agreement across parties how to move forward.I actually think these two could work together to achieve it. By this do you mean Starmer should not oppose Boris's plans to sell off the NHS to his US funders and pals?where is your proof of this? Where is the source for the brexit plan that you state shows the sale? Do you have a source or proof for these statements or are they just your feelings and interpretation of things? Trump is on record saying he wants to buy it. Johnson in The past has said he wants to break it off. He is on record discussing it with private health firms. Its partially privatised now. None of this proof but can you honestly say in 10 years time the nhs will be as it is now?" And therein lies the problem - if anyone suggests a different way of funding or running the assumption is they’re trying to ruin it and the service it provides. Therefore they automatically become public enemy no 1 and no credence is given to suggestions that may just make it better | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"People keep saying 'sort out NHS waste' before wanting to accept more taxation. I actually worked in the service and can name examples of waste. On the other hand I can point to examples used to point a finger as waste, that are not waste, but instead time consuming/resource consuming but essential processes. Can anyone actually give me an example of waste? Its deflection. The figures are there for everyone to see. I'm still waiting for someone to defend the 6 year pay freeze. It was a 5 year pay freeze followed by a 1% rise that was effectively useless as the cost of living went up more than that. We also had our pensions reviewed so that we would pay in more over a longer period and get less out at the end. On top of that the car park charges increased, most people agree that we shouldn’t have to pay car park charges but what most people don’t know is that the hospitals don’t own the car parks anymore, the last labour government sold the car parks to private companies to try to balance the books. " Think we have had 2,5% in 8 years. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The nhs has been used as a political football for decades lets hope after this is over boris and starmer can come to agreement across parties how to move forward.I actually think these two could work together to achieve it. By this do you mean Starmer should not oppose Boris's plans to sell off the NHS to his US funders and pals?where is your proof of this? Where is the source for the brexit plan that you state shows the sale? Do you have a source or proof for these statements or are they just your feelings and interpretation of things? Trump is on record saying he wants to buy it. Johnson in The past has said he wants to break it off. He is on record discussing it with private health firms. Its partially privatised now. None of this proof but can you honestly say in 10 years time the nhs will be as it is now? And therein lies the problem - if anyone suggests a different way of funding or running the assumption is they’re trying to ruin it and the service it provides. Therefore they automatically become public enemy no 1 and no credence is given to suggestions that may just make it better" I'd prefer if they were honest.They wanna privatise it .at least be upfront about it and we can have a grown up discussion Either way it's going to change. | |||
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"So the NHS has been part privatised by the last Labour government. That's done and dusted however having read this thread I can't see much hostility about it. But what I can see is the hostility about something the Conservative party haven't done, have said they won't do but certain people keep saying that's what they are going to do! If there was one policy that would lose them a general election the Conservative party know it would be to privatise the NHS. It's not going to happen so please just drop the left wing propaganda.! " Rightio | |||
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"So the NHS has been part privatised by the last Labour government. That's done and dusted however having read this thread I can't see much hostility about it. But what I can see is the hostility about something the Conservative party haven't done, have said they won't do but certain people keep saying that's what they are going to do! If there was one policy that would lose them a general election the Conservative party know it would be to privatise the NHS. " Which is why it is done by stealth. I recall a time when the Trust I worked for was put out to tender which included Virgin care. It was within last decade. | |||
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"patients4nhs It appears to be an apolitical or even anti-political website in the aspect of stating what successive govts have done to the NHS re privatisation. Both labour and tory govts are apparently subtly privatising the NHS, which began in 1979 under thatcher. It started with putting out tenders for cleaning and food. " The section on the possible us trade deal is worrying and totally debunks the post above. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So the NHS has been part privatised by the last Labour government. That's done and dusted however having read this thread I can't see much hostility about it. But what I can see is the hostility about something the Conservative party haven't done, have said they won't do but certain people keep saying that's what they are going to do! If there was one policy that would lose them a general election the Conservative party know it would be to privatise the NHS. Which is why it is done by stealth. I recall a time when the Trust I worked for was put out to tender which included Virgin care. It was within last decade. " I believe the process for tendering for the Virgin care started under Brown as PM. | |||
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"I think the only way to save and protect nhs is introducing private health care facilities for employed people part funded by government to ease burden, also think charge for a&e will need to e brought in ... So if you work..you pay? If only there was some system that took some money automatically from people who work, and send it to the NHS....." And what about those that don’t work, their choice, I’m afraid it would give some people more of an incentive not to work. People are even working the system on benefits for ailments that they say they can’t work for like for example of people I know, one a postman who said he couldn’t post letters but he can get on his roof and lay his patio and another who says can’t walk yet goes shooting with his dog all day and jets off to Australia on benefits, this is what needs looking at, people taking money when there not entitled to it, makes my blood boil. Also think it’s not all about the funding we are far to overpopulated for the medical resources, not that I’ve been to A&E for about 15 years but there certainly wasn’t the wait time that people are reporting now. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So the NHS has been part privatised by the last Labour government. That's done and dusted however having read this thread I can't see much hostility about it. But what I can see is the hostility about something the Conservative party haven't done, have said they won't do but certain people keep saying that's what they are going to do! If there was one policy that would lose them a general election the Conservative party know it would be to privatise the NHS. Which is why it is done by stealth. I recall a time when the Trust I worked for was put out to tender which included Virgin care. It was within last decade. I believe the process for tendering for the Virgin care started under Brown as PM. " Does it matter? The point is both labour and tory are GUILTY. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think the only way to save and protect nhs is introducing private health care facilities for employed people part funded by government to ease burden, also think charge for a&e will need to e brought in ... So if you work..you pay? If only there was some system that took some money automatically from people who work, and send it to the NHS..... And what about those that don’t work, their choice, I’m afraid it would give some people more of an incentive not to work. People are even working the system on benefits for ailments that they say they can’t work for like for example of people I know, one a postman who said he couldn’t post letters but he can get on his roof and lay his patio and another who says can’t walk yet goes shooting with his dog all day and jets off to Australia on benefits, this is what needs looking at, people taking money when there not entitled to it, makes my blood boil. Also think it’s not all about the funding we are far to overpopulated for the medical resources, not that I’ve been to A&E for about 15 years but there certainly wasn’t the wait time that people are reporting now. " How can you afford a holiday to Australia on benefits? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think the only way to save and protect nhs is introducing private health care facilities for employed people part funded by government to ease burden, also think charge for a&e will need to e brought in ... So if you work..you pay? If only there was some system that took some money automatically from people who work, and send it to the NHS..... And what about those that don’t work, their choice, I’m afraid it would give some people more of an incentive not to work. People are even working the system on benefits for ailments that they say they can’t work for like for example of people I know, one a postman who said he couldn’t post letters but he can get on his roof and lay his patio and another who says can’t walk yet goes shooting with his dog all day and jets off to Australia on benefits, this is what needs looking at, people taking money when there not entitled to it, makes my blood boil. Also think it’s not all about the funding we are far to overpopulated for the medical resources, not that I’ve been to A&E for about 15 years but there certainly wasn’t the wait time that people are reporting now. " To lighten things... I'd suggest the guy who laid his patio on his roof have his mental health assessed  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think the only way to save and protect nhs is introducing private health care facilities for employed people part funded by government to ease burden, also think charge for a&e will need to e brought in ... So if you work..you pay? If only there was some system that took some money automatically from people who work, and send it to the NHS..... And what about those that don’t work, their choice, I’m afraid it would give some people more of an incentive not to work. People are even working the system on benefits for ailments that they say they can’t work for like for example of people I know, one a postman who said he couldn’t post letters but he can get on his roof and lay his patio and another who says can’t walk yet goes shooting with his dog all day and jets off to Australia on benefits, this is what needs looking at, people taking money when there not entitled to it, makes my blood boil. Also think it’s not all about the funding we are far to overpopulated for the medical resources, not that I’ve been to A&E for about 15 years but there certainly wasn’t the wait time that people are reporting now. To lighten things... I'd suggest the guy who laid his patio on his roof have his mental health assessed " | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think the only way to save and protect nhs is introducing private health care facilities for employed people part funded by government to ease burden, also think charge for a&e will need to e brought in ... So if you work..you pay? If only there was some system that took some money automatically from people who work, and send it to the NHS..... And what about those that don’t work, their choice, I’m afraid it would give some people more of an incentive not to work. People are even working the system on benefits for ailments that they say they can’t work for like for example of people I know, one a postman who said he couldn’t post letters but he can get on his roof and lay his patio and another who says can’t walk yet goes shooting with his dog all day and jets off to Australia on benefits, this is what needs looking at, people taking money when there not entitled to it, makes my blood boil. Also think it’s not all about the funding we are far to overpopulated for the medical resources, not that I’ve been to A&E for about 15 years but there certainly wasn’t the wait time that people are reporting now. How can you afford a holiday to Australia on benefits?" That’s what I thought but they do | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think the only way to save and protect nhs is introducing private health care facilities for employed people part funded by government to ease burden, also think charge for a&e will need to e brought in ... So if you work..you pay? If only there was some system that took some money automatically from people who work, and send it to the NHS..... And what about those that don’t work, their choice, I’m afraid it would give some people more of an incentive not to work. People are even working the system on benefits for ailments that they say they can’t work for like for example of people I know, one a postman who said he couldn’t post letters but he can get on his roof and lay his patio and another who says can’t walk yet goes shooting with his dog all day and jets off to Australia on benefits, this is what needs looking at, people taking money when there not entitled to it, makes my blood boil. Also think it’s not all about the funding we are far to overpopulated for the medical resources, not that I’ve been to A&E for about 15 years but there certainly wasn’t the wait time that people are reporting now. To lighten things... I'd suggest the guy who laid his patio on his roof have his mental health assessed "Nooooo two different jobs silly | |||
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"I'd suggest the guy who laid his patio on his roof have his mental health assessed "********************   | |||
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"The NHS has been underfunded for years now but does need more front line staff than mangerment Give them tools to do there job But we as patients should help too there are far to many minor injuries ie something you can treat yourself at home when i was a kid very rare u saw a doctor or hospital And stop smoking and eating garbage ! " All of the above would be a great starting point for the general public to do their bit in helping ease the strain | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think the only way to save and protect nhs is introducing private health care facilities for employed people part funded by government to ease burden, also think charge for a&e will need to e brought in ... So if you work..you pay? If only there was some system that took some money automatically from people who work, and send it to the NHS..... And what about those that don’t work, their choice, I’m afraid it would give some people more of an incentive not to work. People are even working the system on benefits for ailments that they say they can’t work for like for example of people I know, one a postman who said he couldn’t post letters but he can get on his roof and lay his patio and another who says can’t walk yet goes shooting with his dog all day and jets off to Australia on benefits, this is what needs looking at, people taking money when there not entitled to it, makes my blood boil. Also think it’s not all about the funding we are far to overpopulated for the medical resources, not that I’ve been to A&E for about 15 years but there certainly wasn’t the wait time that people are reporting now. To lighten things... I'd suggest the guy who laid his patio on his roof have his mental health assessed
Nooooo two different jobs silly "******************** Ahhhhh, reet...!! | |||
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"No matter how much governments pour into the NHS, it will never be enough. There needs to be a complete restructuring to make it more efficient. Also, pharmacutical companies need to be stopped from ripping off the NHS. I'll probably be slated for saying this, but it needs to be run more like a Private business - only funded by the taxpayer. No, I'm NOT advocating privatisation in any way, shape or form." Not only has the NHS had a pilot hospital run by a business, like a business (and failed) but also, strategies that work in business have been amalgamated into its core. | |||
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"No matter how much governments pour into the NHS, it will never be enough. There needs to be a complete restructuring to make it more efficient. Also, pharmacutical companies need to be stopped from ripping off the NHS. I'll probably be slated for saying this, but it needs to be run more like a Private business - only funded by the taxpayer. No, I'm NOT advocating privatisation in any way, shape or form." The problem Is..its not a business. Business are there to make money.The NHS is there to save lives. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No matter how much governments pour into the NHS, it will never be enough. There needs to be a complete restructuring to make it more efficient. Also, pharmacutical companies need to be stopped from ripping off the NHS. I'll probably be slated for saying this, but it needs to be run more like a Private business - only funded by the taxpayer. No, I'm NOT advocating privatisation in any way, shape or form. The problem Is..its not a business. Business are there to make money.The NHS is there to save lives." I’d have to respectfully disagree with you. There are such things as none profit making organisations, so not all business are there to make money . It needs to be structured and run like a business so it can be more effective and efficient at what it does (saving lives). | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No matter how much governments pour into the NHS, it will never be enough. There needs to be a complete restructuring to make it more efficient. Also, pharmacutical companies need to be stopped from ripping off the NHS. I'll probably be slated for saying this, but it needs to be run more like a Private business - only funded by the taxpayer. No, I'm NOT advocating privatisation in any way, shape or form. The problem Is..its not a business. Business are there to make money.The NHS is there to save lives. I’d have to respectfully disagree with you. There are such things as none profit making organisations, so not all business are there to make money . It needs to be structured and run like a business so it can be more effective and efficient at what it does (saving lives)."Id say most business are there to provide to service and therefore profit.Surely if they didnt they would go out of business? It prob can be a bit more efficient..most businesses can but I just think detracts from the main issue. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No matter how much governments pour into the NHS, it will never be enough. There needs to be a complete restructuring to make it more efficient. Also, pharmacutical companies need to be stopped from ripping off the NHS. I'll probably be slated for saying this, but it needs to be run more like a Private business - only funded by the taxpayer. No, I'm NOT advocating privatisation in any way, shape or form. The problem Is..its not a business. Business are there to make money.The NHS is there to save lives. I’d have to respectfully disagree with you. There are such things as none profit making organisations, so not all business are there to make money . It needs to be structured and run like a business so it can be more effective and efficient at what it does (saving lives)."To repeat myself, business strategies are used. With businesses you have long term and short term projections and finances needed. Once upon a time the NHS was run on short term projections as govts only had 4-5 years to put their mark on the NHS, or rather get the most out of their funding. It has only been in recent years, through innovation, the govt is accepting long term projections are more costly in the beginning but more efficient in the long run. Take smoking - there are reliable models of what smokers cost the NHS over their lifetime, multiply by millions. Therefore, and use Nice as a source, they have worked it out would be cheaper per person to give nicotine replacements And support to everyone willing to give up, than treat these people later in the lives. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No matter how much governments pour into the NHS, it will never be enough. There needs to be a complete restructuring to make it more efficient. Also, pharmacutical companies need to be stopped from ripping off the NHS. I'll probably be slated for saying this, but it needs to be run more like a Private business - only funded by the taxpayer. No, I'm NOT advocating privatisation in any way, shape or form. The problem Is..its not a business. Business are there to make money.The NHS is there to save lives. I’d have to respectfully disagree with you. There are such things as none profit making organisations, so not all business are there to make money . It needs to be structured and run like a business so it can be more effective and efficient at what it does (saving lives).
To repeat myself, business strategies are used.
With businesses you have long term and short term projections and finances needed. Once upon a time the NHS was run on short term projections as govts only had 4-5 years to put their mark on the NHS, or rather get the most out of their funding. It has only been in recent years, through innovation, the govt is accepting long term projections are more costly in the beginning but more efficient in the long run. Take smoking - there are reliable models of what smokers cost the NHS over their lifetime, multiply by millions. Therefore, and use Nice as a source, they have worked it out would be cheaper per person to give nicotine replacements And support to everyone willing to give up, than treat these people later in the lives. "NICE bloody phone AND support Bloody phone | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No matter how much governments pour into the NHS, it will never be enough. There needs to be a complete restructuring to make it more efficient. Also, pharmacutical companies need to be stopped from ripping off the NHS. I'll probably be slated for saying this, but it needs to be run more like a Private business - only funded by the taxpayer. No, I'm NOT advocating privatisation in any way, shape or form. The problem Is..its not a business. Business are there to make money.The NHS is there to save lives. I’d have to respectfully disagree with you. There are such things as none profit making organisations, so not all business are there to make money . It needs to be structured and run like a business so it can be more effective and efficient at what it does (saving lives).
To repeat myself, business strategies are used.
With businesses you have long term and short term projections and finances needed. Once upon a time the NHS was run on short term projections as govts only had 4-5 years to put their mark on the NHS, or rather get the most out of their funding. It has only been in recent years, through innovation, the govt is accepting long term projections are more costly in the beginning but more efficient in the long run. Take smoking - there are reliable models of what smokers cost the NHS over their lifetime, multiply by millions. Therefore, and use Nice as a source, they have worked it out would be cheaper per person to give nicotine replacements And support to everyone willing to give up, than treat these people later in the lives. "I'd go along here. NHS needs a review. Throwing money at a problem is not always fixing the problem. I've yet to see a nationalised industry work. Personally I believe the reduction in management, improvement of business practices and put the money available into a more efficient business (yes NHS is a business, its clients are the patients needing care) and responding in a better manner. That will relieve stress on the front line and then you can review where additional funding will benefit. Too many vendors view NHS as a cash cow etc. God forbid if we do a trade deal where the US Pharma gets to ramp up drug fees to prop up their profits on patented drugs at the expense of need of the patients. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No matter how much governments pour into the NHS, it will never be enough. There needs to be a complete restructuring to make it more efficient. Also, pharmacutical companies need to be stopped from ripping off the NHS. I'll probably be slated for saying this, but it needs to be run more like a Private business - only funded by the taxpayer. No, I'm NOT advocating privatisation in any way, shape or form. The problem Is..its not a business. Business are there to make money.The NHS is there to save lives. I’d have to respectfully disagree with you. There are such things as none profit making organisations, so not all business are there to make money . It needs to be structured and run like a business so it can be more effective and efficient at what it does (saving lives).
To repeat myself, business strategies are used.
With businesses you have long term and short term projections and finances needed. Once upon a time the NHS was run on short term projections as govts only had 4-5 years to put their mark on the NHS, or rather get the most out of their funding. It has only been in recent years, through innovation, the govt is accepting long term projections are more costly in the beginning but more efficient in the long run. Take smoking - there are reliable models of what smokers cost the NHS over their lifetime, multiply by millions. Therefore, and use Nice as a source, they have worked it out would be cheaper per person to give nicotine replacements And support to everyone willing to give up, than treat these people later in the lives.
I'd go along here. NHS needs a review. Throwing money at a problem is not always fixing the problem. I've yet to see a nationalised industry work. Personally I believe the reduction in management, improvement of business practices and put the money available into a more efficient business (yes NHS is a business, its clients are the patients needing care) and responding in a better manner. That will relieve stress on the front line and then you can review where additional funding will benefit. Too many vendors view NHS as a cash cow etc.
God forbid if we do a trade deal where the US Pharma gets to ramp up drug fees to prop up their profits on patented drugs at the expense of need of the patients."I work in a public dept.One of the 1st things the coalition did was to send in auditors and cut down on "waste'.Some decisions made sense.Others not so. I find it very surprising they havent done this in 10 with the NHS. | |||
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"This government aims to privatise the NHS, and the public voted them in to power knowing they aim to do just that, so no, nothing will change. People who vote Tory are prepared to clap for the NHS, but ask them to do anything more meaningful and they really aren't interested." It's sad that BREXIT was THE issue at the election. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No matter how much governments pour into the NHS, it will never be enough. There needs to be a complete restructuring to make it more efficient. Also, pharmacutical companies need to be stopped from ripping off the NHS. I'll probably be slated for saying this, but it needs to be run more like a Private business - only funded by the taxpayer. No, I'm NOT advocating privatisation in any way, shape or form. The problem Is..its not a business. Business are there to make money.The NHS is there to save lives. I’d have to respectfully disagree with you. There are such things as none profit making organisations, so not all business are there to make money . It needs to be structured and run like a business so it can be more effective and efficient at what it does (saving lives).
To repeat myself, business strategies are used.
With businesses you have long term and short term projections and finances needed. Once upon a time the NHS was run on short term projections as govts only had 4-5 years to put their mark on the NHS, or rather get the most out of their funding. It has only been in recent years, through innovation, the govt is accepting long term projections are more costly in the beginning but more efficient in the long run. Take smoking - there are reliable models of what smokers cost the NHS over their lifetime, multiply by millions. Therefore, and use Nice as a source, they have worked it out would be cheaper per person to give nicotine replacements And support to everyone willing to give up, than treat these people later in the lives.
I'd go along here. NHS needs a review. Throwing money at a problem is not always fixing the problem. I've yet to see a nationalised industry work. Personally I believe the reduction in management, improvement of business practices and put the money available into a more efficient business (yes NHS is a business, its clients are the patients needing care) and responding in a better manner. That will relieve stress on the front line and then you can review where additional funding will benefit. Too many vendors view NHS as a cash cow etc.
God forbid if we do a trade deal where the US Pharma gets to ramp up drug fees to prop up their profits on patented drugs at the expense of need of the patients.
I work in a public dept.One of the 1st things the coalition did was to send in auditors and cut down on "waste'.Some decisions made sense.Others not so.
I find it very surprising they havent done this in 10 with the NHS." what makes you think this hasn't happened? What makes you think this doesn't happen all the time? | |||
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" God forbid if we do a trade deal where the US Pharma gets to ramp up drug fees to prop up their profits on patented drugs at the expense of need of the patients. I work in a public dept.One of the 1st things the coalition did was to send in auditors and cut down on "waste'.Some decisions made sense.Others not so. I find it very surprising they havent done this in 10 with the NHS. what makes you think this hasn't happened? What makes you think this doesn't happen all the time? "Evidence does not really suggest that is the case. Obviously we are speculating, but the money fed into the system is not enough for how the system runs today. As such, something needs to change, and I do not believe, at present and happy to be proved incorrect, throwing money at the problem will fix it as it will simply get soaked up. The cynic in me says management bonuses  | |||
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"No matter how much governments pour into the NHS, it will never be enough. There needs to be a complete restructuring to make it more efficient. Also, pharmacutical companies need to be stopped from ripping off the NHS. I'll probably be slated for saying this, but it needs to be run more like a Private business - only funded by the taxpayer. No, I'm NOT advocating privatisation in any way, shape or form. The problem Is..its not a business. Business are there to make money.The NHS is there to save lives. I’d have to respectfully disagree with you. There are such things as none profit making organisations, so not all business are there to make money . It needs to be structured and run like a business so it can be more effective and efficient at what it does (saving lives).
To repeat myself, business strategies are used.
With businesses you have long term and short term projections and finances needed. Once upon a time the NHS was run on short term projections as govts only had 4-5 years to put their mark on the NHS, or rather get the most out of their funding. It has only been in recent years, through innovation, the govt is accepting long term projections are more costly in the beginning but more efficient in the long run. Take smoking - there are reliable models of what smokers cost the NHS over their lifetime, multiply by millions. Therefore, and use Nice as a source, they have worked it out would be cheaper per person to give nicotine replacements And support to everyone willing to give up, than treat these people later in the lives.
I'd go along here. NHS needs a review. Throwing money at a problem is not always fixing the problem. I've yet to see a nationalised industry work. Personally I believe the reduction in management, improvement of business practices and put the money available into a more efficient business (yes NHS is a business, its clients are the patients needing care) and responding in a better manner. That will relieve stress on the front line and then you can review where additional funding will benefit. Too many vendors view NHS as a cash cow etc.
God forbid if we do a trade deal where the US Pharma gets to ramp up drug fees to prop up their profits on patented drugs at the expense of need of the patients.
I work in a public dept.One of the 1st things the coalition did was to send in auditors and cut down on "waste'.Some decisions made sense.Others not so.
I find it very surprising they havent done this in 10 with the NHS.
what makes you think this hasn't happened? What makes you think this doesn't happen all the time? "Because of all the posters on here with examples of waste and top heavy bureaucracy? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" God forbid if we do a trade deal where the US Pharma gets to ramp up drug fees to prop up their profits on patented drugs at the expense of need of the patients. I work in a public dept.One of the 1st things the coalition did was to send in auditors and cut down on "waste'.Some decisions made sense.Others not so. I find it very surprising they havent done this in 10 with the NHS. what makes you think this hasn't happened? What makes you think this doesn't happen all the time?
Evidence does not really suggest that is the case. Obviously we are speculating, but the money fed into the system is not enough for how the system runs today. As such, something needs to change, and I do not believe, at present and happy to be proved incorrect, throwing money at the problem will fix it as it will simply get soaked up. The cynic in me says management bonuses "I'm fairly sure you dont get bonuses in the public sector? We don't. | |||
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"Think they are looking at the German model so a lot of sell offs and slim lining, our NHS is to top heavy and thus slow to change and adapt. Needs a complete over all and stop kidding ourselves that money will cure everything, it goes deeper than that. " There are daily posts about how great the German system has coped with the virus, so we shouldn’t be overly worried about adopting the German model ?
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"Think they are looking at the German model so a lot of sell offs and slim lining, our NHS is to top heavy and thus slow to change and adapt. Needs a complete over all and stop kidding ourselves that money will cure everything, it goes deeper than that. " 4% of the nhs are managers compared to 10% in the wider economy. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No matter how much governments pour into the NHS, it will never be enough. There needs to be a complete restructuring to make it more efficient. Also, pharmacutical companies need to be stopped from ripping off the NHS. I'll probably be slated for saying this, but it needs to be run more like a Private business - only funded by the taxpayer. No, I'm NOT advocating privatisation in any way, shape or form. The problem Is..its not a business. Business are there to make money.The NHS is there to save lives. I’d have to respectfully disagree with you. There are such things as none profit making organisations, so not all business are there to make money . It needs to be structured and run like a business so it can be more effective and efficient at what it does (saving lives).
To repeat myself, business strategies are used.
With businesses you have long term and short term projections and finances needed. Once upon a time the NHS was run on short term projections as govts only had 4-5 years to put their mark on the NHS, or rather get the most out of their funding. It has only been in recent years, through innovation, the govt is accepting long term projections are more costly in the beginning but more efficient in the long run. Take smoking - there are reliable models of what smokers cost the NHS over their lifetime, multiply by millions. Therefore, and use Nice as a source, they have worked it out would be cheaper per person to give nicotine replacements And support to everyone willing to give up, than treat these people later in the lives.
I'd go along here. NHS needs a review. Throwing money at a problem is not always fixing the problem. I've yet to see a nationalised industry work. Personally I believe the reduction in management, improvement of business practices and put the money available into a more efficient business (yes NHS is a business, its clients are the patients needing care) and responding in a better manner. That will relieve stress on the front line and then you can review where additional funding will benefit. Too many vendors view NHS as a cash cow etc.
God forbid if we do a trade deal where the US Pharma gets to ramp up drug fees to prop up their profits on patented drugs at the expense of need of the patients.
I work in a public dept.One of the 1st things the coalition did was to send in auditors and cut down on "waste'.Some decisions made sense.Others not so.
I find it very surprising they havent done this in 10 with the NHS.
what makes you think this hasn't happened? What makes you think this doesn't happen all the time?
Because of all the posters on here with examples of waste and top heavy bureaucracy?"Savings have to be made in every area. So frontline staff are encouraged to come up with money saving ideas in their own departments. Consultant firms are asked to audit and see where big savings can be made. Policies have come about to reduce unnecessary visits to patients by different health care professionals. Telephone calls to assess need for daily visits. Reduction in the number of managers, upskilling of staff to enable more versatile staff and increase productivity cheaply. | |||
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