FabSwingers.com > Forums > Swingers Chat > The dreaded one liner email syndrome
The dreaded one liner email syndrome
Jump to: Newest in thread
| |||
 | |||
| |||
| |||
 | |||
"my head hurts "Which head??  | |||
| |||
""1 + 1 = 10" was written on the blackboard, so the pupils (mature students) start laughing, some discussion says 1 + 1 =2 some says you can put 1 and 1 together and get 11. Fact is the top sum is correct, in binary, if you assume anything else then it LOOKS stupid, but it isn't. So you go surfing and end up at FAB, and my, what a picture it presents to the newcomer... Single men can bugger off, if we want you we will find you. Send me a face pic and your credit card pin with your first message or you will get blocked. Must have a penis as big as a shire horse, and no personality, and be available at 10 minutes notice. I can't be arsed to respond to you unless I want to fuck you. and the classic Must grab my interest by sending an initial message of at least 5,000 words, incorporating the 2nd, 5th and 7th lines of the profile to prove you read it. -------------------------- So, while it may be that you end up jaded because your time has been wasted in the past, from a purely marketing perspective, you end up with a profile that frankly nobody is going to waste any more than a copy/paste "Hi how are you fancy a chat" on, because from the newbie's point of view your profile is a bit cold and intimidating. (not casting stones here, I know my own is less than sweetness and light) So you end up like the clubs, with little cliques of regulars, and a huge churn of newbies, some of whom were always fake, some of whom were just putting a toe in the water out of interest, and some of whom were frankly quite genuine, but got put off by a crowd of people who seemed to be up their own arse. You can have a community, which is a gathering of different people with different styles but mutual respect, or you can have a monoculture, where everyone conforms to the common message, eg all men are timewasting bastards, who lie about their penis size and sexual stamina. I have a vested interest in this, because while I may not have been on FAB long, I have been into kink / bdsm / swinging all my life, and behind the scenes with kink websites from the mid nineties, and what I am seeing is that far from the scene becoming more liberated, it is becoming more marginalised and vulnerable. Back in the day, everyone knew what went on up at the golf club etc, but you could not pick up a paper and every week see a different story about someone who used a kink dating site to do some nefarious act or other. Speaking from my own personal experience BDSM / kink is a trump card for the women to play in family court, because again any lawyer's clerk only needs 5 seconds with google to come up with enough "evidence" that everyone into that thing is some sort of deviant. Despite only being here a short time myself I have personally met two women and three men, all very very genuine people, all very much into the lifestyle, who have quit in disgust. Notably, all of them quit BEFORE ponying up the cash to keep this site running, so how we act with our attitudes has a direct effect on the bottom line of admin's revenue stream, we are as a community scaring away people who would otherwise be prepared to open their wallets and become a part of something. So perhaps, just perhaps, when you get the totally inappropriate message contact, such as me getting offers from blokes who want to suck my cock, we can be a little more civil in our responses.... and perhaps before reaching for the report button, we can consider what it is about us, or the way we are presenting ourselves, that seems to attract so many assholes... I have a profile here as a single male, according to the common johnny here that is the lowest of the low, no chance of ever meeting anyone, and yet I find the opposite is true, simply by making the effort to be friendly and give others the benefit of the doubt. We should also watch out for confirmation bias, as a singe male I am going to be largely untroubled by "unwanted" attention from single males, however as a woman or a couple you are going to be largely untroubled by unwanted attention or bad attitudes from other women, or other couples, something I can see every day. FAB is a great site, full of great people, but there is a danger that stereotyping and harsh attitudes can lead to a monoculture. I do OK *NOT* because I am a single male, but because I have a lifetime of experience with people, a resource that a newbie, especially a young newbie, cannot draw upon.... that does not make them time wasting losers with small appendages. SOMEONE introduced us all to this lifestyle, nurtured us, welcomed us. Are we content to be lesser people than them and live off the fat, while it lasts, and then ask "where have all the good x gone????" " This happens on all sites, not just swinging sites. They all have a shelf life and as soon as a new one comes along, fab will lose its members to it. Sh lost its members to fab when it started charging. Someone will make a new one at some point and the people will flock there. We're a fickle lot us humans and we're nosey  | |||
"OH THANK YOU, Not being sarky but you hit the nail right on the head. Am a member of 5 websites which are adult meeting places and what you pointed out is common to all of them. The couple or single woman who are jaded by repeated contact with those they deem less than adequate act as through they can order a bespoke partner for a meet. Who can attain this rare privilidge of a meet in the flesh? the 1% of the membership who fits the profile specifications and is within reasonable travelling distance, but they will also jump through so many hoops to get to the face to face meeting that they will be very critical of anything not mentioned in their others profile, their attitude will be "I jumped through hoops to get here have you being truthful with me?" , the whole meet will be riddled with suspicion. They will actually wonder if it was worth the effort. Your message stated that someone introduced them to this lifestyle and possibly this site is correct, so why do they insist on forming little groups or cliques who regard themselves as custodians of the site by making everyone else dance to their tune? they were not here first and the site will possibly be here after they are gone. I have seen too many of these sites fail over the years becasue "new blood" was discouraged as the old timers formed alliances to put everyone else in their place. Its the same in the clubs, some I visited last year have such a high turnover of customers because they are miserable places and the regulars are as welcoming as an open grave. Whats the solution? look in the mirror, see if the way you deal with the shortcomings of others are the same as the way in which you wish others to treat you when you make mistakes. " Nothing like a dose of cynicism on a Friday!!
Why should couples and singles of any sex not be allowed preferences and tastes?
All this talk of 'jumping through hoops' and 'dancing to tunes' largely comes from those that have for whatever reason be rejected, rather than those that actually meet.
And as for newbies not being welcomed - either on site or in clubs - from a 'community' perspective I've seen no evidence of genuine, polite newcomers being made anything less than welcome. Considering the hassle all newbies endure with the raft of messages flodding their inboxes from day one by those considering them 'fresh meat' i'm often suprised by the number that stay and go on to enjoy life on site - rather than leaving due to being made unwelcome by existing members.
You're right about looking in the mirror though - those that treat any others, regardless of sex, age or preference, in any way that they would not be happy to be treated are in the wrong place. But never forget - this is a site for people to use as 'they' wish - not anyone else. And if that means they have specific criteria they are looking for - so be it! | |||
| |||
 | |||
| |||
  | |||
"Really interesting to read. As a single male I try to introduce myself politely and briefly, often I have entered into a fairly long introduction only to get a sharp 'delete' and no reply. If message has been indicated as 'been read' and not deleted and you try a take 2 a couple of weeks down the line, a very large notice confronts you warning not to be a pest.all a bit daunting. All could run really smooth with a two word reply saying 'no thanks' or better still 'yes please' lol At least we single males would know what to do. I appreciate that people can get really busy with messages but spare a thought for the person who has thought carefully about his message before you hit the delete button without so much a thought for the time taken to write. While I'm here, I have noticed that I have tried to view some profiles and find that I've been blocked, in nearly all cases I've never spoken or messaged, what's all that about? I think I'm a nice guy, but then I am biased. Having said all that, I've had some lovely contacts." Simple, they've blocked all single men from viewing them. Or like a few people on here, if you have the temerity to have looked at them and appear on their "viewed me"list, but not what they want, they manually block you out. I don't get that one at all! | |||
"Really interesting to read. As a single male I try to introduce myself politely and briefly, often I have entered into a fairly long introduction only to get a sharp 'delete' and no reply. If message has been indicated as 'been read' and not deleted and you try a take 2 a couple of weeks down the line, a very large notice confronts you warning not to be a pest.all a bit daunting. All could run really smooth with a two word reply saying 'no thanks' or better still 'yes please' lol At least we single males would know what to do. I appreciate that people can get really busy with messages but spare a thought for the person who has thought carefully about his message before you hit the delete button without so much a thought for the time taken to write. While I'm here, I have noticed that I have tried to view some profiles and find that I've been blocked, in nearly all cases I've never spoken or messaged, what's all that about? I think I'm a nice guy, but then I am biased. Having said all that, I've had some lovely contacts. Simple, they've blocked all single men from viewing them. Or like a few people on here, if you have the temerity to have looked at them and appear on their "viewed me"list, but not what they want, they manually block you out. I don't get that one at all! " Afetr a dozen views a day from someone not matching my preferences - the block button is used with no guilt! | |||
| |||
"Really interesting to read. As a single male I try to introduce myself politely and briefly, often I have entered into a fairly long introduction only to get a sharp 'delete' and no reply. If message has been indicated as 'been read' and not deleted and you try a take 2 a couple of weeks down the line, a very large notice confronts you warning not to be a pest.all a bit daunting. All could run really smooth with a two word reply saying 'no thanks' or better still 'yes please' lol At least we single males would know what to do. I appreciate that people can get really busy with messages but spare a thought for the person who has thought carefully about his message before you hit the delete button without so much a thought for the time taken to write. While I'm here, I have noticed that I have tried to view some profiles and find that I've been blocked, in nearly all cases I've never spoken or messaged, what's all that about? I think I'm a nice guy, but then I am biased. Having said all that, I've had some lovely contacts." The only relevant sentence as a single guy in the above it the very last one - "I've had some lovely contacts". I keep saying this to single guys (as it is they who get hung up about this most) is that contacts or responses to messages are ALL that is relevant/important. There is NO point whatsoever wasting your life getting despondent over 'read' or 'deleted' messages to which you got no response. So there is an easy solution which will make your life so much easier... and that is to delete all sent messages as soon as you've sent them. The recipient won't know, you won't get all depressed and when you DO get a reply in your in-box it will be like Christmas come early! Try it....  | |||
"A very erudite post. But basically the message is "please reply nicely to all messages". With the added "or you might find the membership of the site leaves". I'd agree that there are a few people who consider themselves God's gift to the scene. Untouchable unless you are as pretty and fit as them, with a huge knob for the guys and inflatable tits for the women. But they are the exception rather than the rule. As it's been pointed out many times, women in particular get vast numbers of messages per day. It is simply not practical to message everyone back, politely or otherwise. As for cliques, well wherever you get groups of people together then they all form their own little social groups. It's nature. From the schoolyard to the boardroom, people have groups of friends that have little in jokes, plot and gossip about the others. You did yourself that you have some friends who joined the site but then left in disgust, that'd bread a similar thing. A small group united in disgust. You probably have a rose tinted view of your days in the 90's, most people do about the past. Sit and think, and can you honestly say there were no cliques back then amongst groups of friends? Or did everyone really get busy with everyone regardless? A good post and worth the read OP,but I think ultimately flawed. Yes there's people up their own arses here, and they do very well from a very limited pool of partners. It's the ones here who are friendly and do reply that I stay for. For everyone else there's the block button, and a someone else will be along shortly. " +1
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
" The one that makes me grind my teeth is accusations of cliques on the forums. Yes there are a lot of regular daily posters who know each other and have a laugh and an even a few in-jokes, but there isn't some kind of Fabarati some imply. It's a bit like if you go down a pub, if you go a lot and make an effort with the locals you end up chatting all the time and having a laugh. If you go in once a month and sit in the corner then no one will talk to you. It's called life, either join in or stop sitting alone anx moaning. Using the term clique is too easy a get out clause at times in my opinion. " I've chatted a lot on 3 forums in my life, one for cosmetic surgery, one for pregnancy and this one. The same can be said about all, close friends were made in some cases, in fact one lady from the pregnancy one introduced me to fab!! Lol. It's not clicky, some people get on better with others. In fact the more scathing comments I notice on here are from the slightly less regular posters who only seem to post when they've got something harsh to say!! As for the not replying to messages thing, doesn't bother me 1 iota when I happens to me. I just take it as a no thanks and move on x | |||
| |||
"my head hurts " | |||
up to invitucs
I am by no means a prolific poster in forums but try to contribute and have a laugh most times and not afraid to make negative comments if its called for
jon x  | |||
"Yeah but as long as they are not pestering you with messages what's the harm in looking? " Agreed | |||
| |||
And I am not bothered about newbies or those with no verifications; I have met both, it is after all about the person and that they interest me enough to want to meet them. I do feel sometimes though that they are treated incredibly badly by some yet they can be the nicest people you could meet | |||
" The one that makes me grind my teeth is accusations of cliques on the forums. Yes there are a lot of regular daily posters who know each other and have a laugh and an even a few in-jokes, but there isn't some kind of Fabarati some imply. It's a bit like if you go down a pub, if you go a lot and make an effort with the locals you end up chatting all the time and having a laugh. If you go in once a month and sit in the corner then no one will talk to you. It's called life, either join in or stop sitting alone anx moaning. Using the term clique is too easy a get out clause at times in my opinion. " this is how i feel... clique is one of those words thrown around that is too easy a get out... what some people fail to remember that on some occasions these people will have met, at clubs... or at socials.. will have spent time talking about serious subjects and fluff and will have built some sort of friendships built on time.... the pub analogy is a good one... when I lived about 2 miles up the road from where i do now, i use to go to my local alot... at first i knew no one.. then got to know people slowly to the point where i felt like i got to know people a fair bit.... then i moved... and i don't go there as often.... so the older people who go there know me and we can have a banter, but the newer people don't..... you can jump in and talk.. and get to know people, or you can sit on the sideline, say boo to a goose, and throw around the word "clique"..... it is a two way street..... | |||
"There is a lot goes on Fab that becomes a kind of self-feeding thing. Single men don't get replies to longer messages; result, they copy and paste; result, they get rejected even more for daring to copy and paste Married men come on site and are honest about theire infedelity; result, they get slated and insulted for it; result, they hide the fact they are married Bi-men are honest about their sexuality; result, they get rejected by lots of couples not wanting bi-men, result, they change theire sexuality to straight and lie. All this happens everyday on Fab and lots more besides. The one that makes me grind my teeth is accusations of cliques on the forums. Yes there are a lot of regular daily posters who know each other and have a laugh and an even a few in-jokes, but there isn't some kind of Fabarati some imply. It's a bit like if you go down a pub, if you go a lot and make an effort with the locals you end up chatting all the time and having a laugh. If you go in once a month and sit in the corner then no one will talk to you. It's called life, either join in or stop sitting alone anx moaning. Using the term clique is too easy a get out clause at times in my opinion. " What you are in fact saying is that to get a meet you have to lie through your teeth pretending to be someone you are not in order to meet someone who is possibly doing the same thing. So what starts out as a little lie grows into an even bigger one. So the site becomes one big fantasy factory where nothing is as it seems and everyone is a cheat and a liar | |||
| |||
" What you are in fact saying is that to get a meet you have to lie through your teeth pretending to be someone you are not in order to meet someone who is possibly doing the same thing. So what starts out as a little lie grows into an even bigger one. So the site becomes one big fantasy factory where nothing is as it seems and everyone is a cheat and a liar" no you don't have to lie to get a meet..... but don't forget that just because it is a swinging site, that people don't or should forget their morals, in the case of marrieds playing without the other half knowing, or preference in the case of bi men, or single men..... a lot of it is being realistic in the expectations.... just because someone is on a swingers site, it doesn't mean they want to swing with just anyone! fantasy vs reality so to speak.... just because you have for example, a six pack.. or a 10 in cock, or a certain colour or example.. it doesn't mean you are owed... just as is being here for a long time you are somehow owed.... so if you have been here 10 years don't expect a testimonial where you are the only bloke at an all girl gangbang!!! 
the mistake people make is wanting to appeal to everyone.... you are never going to do that so why try! hence the copy and pastes, the generic profiles and the million and one "help me with my profile" requests....
you see a million and one complains where people tend to moan about the thing that excludes them.. age,married,sexuality,colour..... why not just concentrate on those that do like you as opposed to chasing a rainbow and going after those who dont......
just be the best person you can be and forget about everyone else around you... it isn't some sort of competition over who can have to most sex or bed the most people... its about finding compatible partners, the way we go about that task is going to be different from person to person... | |||
"the mistake people make is wanting to appeal to everyone.... you are never going to do that so why try! " I would add to that the other common mistake people make - hoping and praying they will appeal to someone who is, essentially, their fantasy. I might have a fantasy about getting jiggy with a horny, fit and attractive 24 year (ok, I can dream!) but the reality is an overweight 51 year old guy with greying hair ain't going to 'cut the kinda mustard' that 24yr year old babe is looking for. What Fabio said about looking for COMPATIBLE partners is what it's about. The first step to that is to take a good long look at yourself and be REALISTIC, and then remember that you only get back what you put out in this game. | |||
| |||
""1 + 1 = 10" was written on the blackboard, so the pupils (mature students) start laughing, some discussion says 1 + 1 =2 some says you can put 1 and 1 together and get 11. Fact is the top sum is correct, in binary, if you assume anything else then it LOOKS stupid, but it isn't. So you go surfing and end up at FAB, and my, what a picture it presents to the newcomer... Single men can bugger off, if we want you we will find you. Send me a face pic and your credit card pin with your first message or you will get blocked. Must have a penis as big as a shire horse, and no personality, and be available at 10 minutes notice. I can't be arsed to respond to you unless I want to fuck you. and the classic Must grab my interest by sending an initial message of at least 5,000 words, incorporating the 2nd, 5th and 7th lines of the profile to prove you read it. -------------------------- So, while it may be that you end up jaded because your time has been wasted in the past, from a purely marketing perspective, you end up with a profile that frankly nobody is going to waste any more than a copy/paste "Hi how are you fancy a chat" on, because from the newbie's point of view your profile is a bit cold and intimidating. (not casting stones here, I know my own is less than sweetness and light) So you end up like the clubs, with little cliques of regulars, and a huge churn of newbies, some of whom were always fake, some of whom were just putting a toe in the water out of interest, and some of whom were frankly quite genuine, but got put off by a crowd of people who seemed to be up their own arse. You can have a community, which is a gathering of different people with different styles but mutual respect, or you can have a monoculture, where everyone conforms to the common message, eg all men are timewasting bastards, who lie about their penis size and sexual stamina. I have a vested interest in this, because while I may not have been on FAB long, I have been into kink / bdsm / swinging all my life, and behind the scenes with kink websites from the mid nineties, and what I am seeing is that far from the scene becoming more liberated, it is becoming more marginalised and vulnerable. Back in the day, everyone knew what went on up at the golf club etc, but you could not pick up a paper and every week see a different story about someone who used a kink dating site to do some nefarious act or other. Speaking from my own personal experience BDSM / kink is a trump card for the women to play in family court, because again any lawyer's clerk only needs 5 seconds with google to come up with enough "evidence" that everyone into that thing is some sort of deviant. Despite only being here a short time myself I have personally met two women and three men, all very very genuine people, all very much into the lifestyle, who have quit in disgust. Notably, all of them quit BEFORE ponying up the cash to keep this site running, so how we act with our attitudes has a direct effect on the bottom line of admin's revenue stream, we are as a community scaring away people who would otherwise be prepared to open their wallets and become a part of something. So perhaps, just perhaps, when you get the totally inappropriate message contact, such as me getting offers from blokes who want to suck my cock, we can be a little more civil in our responses.... and perhaps before reaching for the report button, we can consider what it is about us, or the way we are presenting ourselves, that seems to attract so many assholes... I have a profile here as a single male, according to the common johnny here that is the lowest of the low, no chance of ever meeting anyone, and yet I find the opposite is true, simply by making the effort to be friendly and give others the benefit of the doubt. We should also watch out for confirmation bias, as a singe male I am going to be largely untroubled by "unwanted" attention from single males, however as a woman or a couple you are going to be largely untroubled by unwanted attention or bad attitudes from other women, or other couples, something I can see every day. FAB is a great site, full of great people, but there is a danger that stereotyping and harsh attitudes can lead to a monoculture. I do OK *NOT* because I am a single male, but because I have a lifetime of experience with people, a resource that a newbie, especially a young newbie, cannot draw upon.... that does not make them time wasting losers with small appendages. SOMEONE introduced us all to this lifestyle, nurtured us, welcomed us. Are we content to be lesser people than them and live off the fat, while it lasts, and then ask "where have all the good x gone????" " I wanted to chime in about one liners but found this rather interesting post instead. I must admit that you had my inner geek at 1+1=10. My 2 cents is that this is a great site that can't operate off of nothing. Yet it still allows members an opportunity to present themselves and communicate with one another for free unlike many other sites whose main goal is to generate revnue. Members will get out it what they put into it. Whether it's a well timed one liner or a happy short novel that gets your attention, then so be it. As long as both parties are happy then great. On the flip side I can see how it could become abusive and the site has measures to control that if becomes problematic. Based on the site allowing communication without having to open up ones wallet is a rather clever way to get people to do just that. In fact it may get me soon enough too.
As I mentioned before I think this is a great site unlike many others and look forward to meeting interesting new people. | |||
| |||
 | |||
| |||
"I'm sure there are guys who wake up or get home from work with a hard on and reckon this site will and should quickly provide a woman to deal with said hard on...these are the tossers who give single guys a bad rep! (" I've woken up with a hard on before - and occasionally got home from work with one too! And used the site to arrange meets to deal with said situation. Am I a tosser? (Fox - don't answer that!!) NOBODY gives me a bad rep. And no other single guy can affect anything you do. You make your own bed, create your own profile, send your own messages, interact in a style of your own choosing - and are ultimately responsible for your own behaviour and the perception others have of you. The 'other guys' claim is nothing but an easy cop out!  | |||
"Don't know about anyone else, but I'm just here for fun. A good shag on a fairly regular basis with people I find attractive and interesting. Any other psychological crap, socially inept idiots or whatever, is just ignored by me. Life's too short to worry about it." | |||
""1 + 1 = 10" was written on the blackboard, so the pupils (mature students) start laughing, some discussion says 1 + 1 =2 some says you can put 1 and 1 together and get 11. Fact is the top sum is correct, in binary, if you assume anything else then it LOOKS stupid, but it isn't. So you go surfing and end up at FAB, and my, what a picture it presents to the newcomer... Single men can bugger off, if we want you we will find you. Send me a face pic and your credit card pin with your first message or you will get blocked. Must have a penis as big as a shire horse, and no personality, and be available at 10 minutes notice. I can't be arsed to respond to you unless I want to fuck you. and the classic Must grab my interest by sending an initial message of at least 5,000 words, incorporating the 2nd, 5th and 7th lines of the profile to prove you read it. -------------------------- So, while it may be that you end up jaded because your time has been wasted in the past, from a purely marketing perspective, you end up with a profile that frankly nobody is going to waste any more than a copy/paste "Hi how are you fancy a chat" on, because from the newbie's point of view your profile is a bit cold and intimidating. (not casting stones here, I know my own is less than sweetness and light) So you end up like the clubs, with little cliques of regulars, and a huge churn of newbies, some of whom were always fake, some of whom were just putting a toe in the water out of interest, and some of whom were frankly quite genuine, but got put off by a crowd of people who seemed to be up their own arse. You can have a community, which is a gathering of different people with different styles but mutual respect, or you can have a monoculture, where everyone conforms to the common message, eg all men are timewasting bastards, who lie about their penis size and sexual stamina. I have a vested interest in this, because while I may not have been on FAB long, I have been into kink / bdsm / swinging all my life, and behind the scenes with kink websites from the mid nineties, and what I am seeing is that far from the scene becoming more liberated, it is becoming more marginalised and vulnerable. Back in the day, everyone knew what went on up at the golf club etc, but you could not pick up a paper and every week see a different story about someone who used a kink dating site to do some nefarious act or other. Speaking from my own personal experience BDSM / kink is a trump card for the women to play in family court, because again any lawyer's clerk only needs 5 seconds with google to come up with enough "evidence" that everyone into that thing is some sort of deviant. Despite only being here a short time myself I have personally met two women and three men, all very very genuine people, all very much into the lifestyle, who have quit in disgust. Notably, all of them quit BEFORE ponying up the cash to keep this site running, so how we act with our attitudes has a direct effect on the bottom line of admin's revenue stream, we are as a community scaring away people who would otherwise be prepared to open their wallets and become a part of something. So perhaps, just perhaps, when you get the totally inappropriate message contact, such as me getting offers from blokes who want to suck my cock, we can be a little more civil in our responses.... and perhaps before reaching for the report button, we can consider what it is about us, or the way we are presenting ourselves, that seems to attract so many assholes... I have a profile here as a single male, according to the common johnny here that is the lowest of the low, no chance of ever meeting anyone, and yet I find the opposite is true, simply by making the effort to be friendly and give others the benefit of the doubt. We should also watch out for confirmation bias, as a singe male I am going to be largely untroubled by "unwanted" attention from single males, however as a woman or a couple you are going to be largely untroubled by unwanted attention or bad attitudes from other women, or other couples, something I can see every day. FAB is a great site, full of great people, but there is a danger that stereotyping and harsh attitudes can lead to a monoculture. I do OK *NOT* because I am a single male, but because I have a lifetime of experience with people, a resource that a newbie, especially a young newbie, cannot draw upon.... that does not make them time wasting losers with small appendages. SOMEONE introduced us all to this lifestyle, nurtured us, welcomed us. Are we content to be lesser people than them and live off the fat, while it lasts, and then ask "where have all the good x gone????" " FUCK ME,,, it's like reading war and piece | |||
| |||
| |||
" Am I a tosser? (Fox - don't answer that!!) " Well . . .  | |||
