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BAREBACK ! ! !

By *yclop OP Man over a year ago

belfast

Dirty, Downright Dangerous, Unprotected, Bareback sex !!!

It is surprising just how many people get a vicarious thrill from it, many many more than actually “do it”.

Just for the purpose of discussion I have created four categories:-

1.“The Couple”. Bareback together, protected sex with everyone else. Now not even the “Condom Brigade" is going to vilify and lecture them.

2.What about the “Group of Friends”, the “Polyamorous Group”. A closed group who bareback together and use condoms with others. There is clearly a thrill in sharing sloppy seconds, but to what extent can they be vilified and lectured?

3.“The Swingers who only have occasional meets with strangers or relative strangers they meet on the net or elsewhere”. Clearly more at risk of infection, but the incidence is really quite low since if they do get a dose, they are more likely than not to discover it before they pass it on. Again there is clearly the thrill of sloppy seconds as well as the vicarious thrill of danger. They are however much more likely to be shouted at by the Condom Brigade and lectured on how good condoms really are, and how to put them on.

4.Then there the “Really Bad People”. The ones who indulge in it with lots more partners and with greater frequency, maybe half a dozen total strangers in a car park in the one night. Look at some of the other sites. The BDSM sites seem to have a greater tolerance, but then you could say that these are people who active seek to be hurt and harmed by their sexual partners. The Cuckold sites show an enormous tolerance, the guys there really drool over the HotWives who go out on the pull and bring home cream pies for their CuckHusbands to enjoy and clean up; and vie with each other to "fill them up again". In our barely post-racist society, interracial sex is seen as much dirtier and more desirable, and even pregnancy risk sex! Even on this site you don't have to trawl very far to find requests for bareback and big black cocks. Indeed there are sites out there dedicated to nothing else but finding bareback partners. It is obvious the enormous vicarious thrill of doing something downright dangerous that does it for them (apart from the few who just seem not to care). This fourth group is at no less risk than the punters who specialise in bareback prostitutes, and there are websites for them to pass around and recommend escorts who so specialise; including those who with prior booking will present themselves unwashed for the punters to enjoy a cream pie from the last stranger they had. So while we could just hope that the Condom Brigade might have some tiny respect for those who are willing to take these risks for their peccadillo, they obviously shouldn't for those who are so uncaring and irresponsible, that to get an even bigger thrill from putting their innocent partners at risk. Again many of the Condom Brigade should have some begrudging understanding of the vicarious thrill its self. Most of them, while they would never “do it” have fantasised about it, more often than not while having sex with their partners.

Previous discussions on this subject (on the old site) have descended into vitriolic rants, mostly from the Condom Brigade, but occasionally from barebackers accusing them of being a lot of wooses who probably use rubber gloves and dental dams. This only ends up making the series of posts objectionable and unreadable. So let's see if we can turn this into a level-headed argument with a little bit of mutual respect, “Cleanliness vs. Courage” perhaps. After all, no one is going to force anyone else to do the thing they are unwilling to do, this is an adult site, No means No.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

No thanks, this thread is not for me, ok so in accordance with your profile you don't practice safe sex, no problem, it's your choice, but don't call me a member of the "condom brigade" and accuse me of being about to villify and lecture you, I couldn't care less what you do in your sex life, you don't know me, or others enough to decide what they are going to say to people or wether what we say has any less relevance or creedance than what you say, ask a question in the forums by all means but when you have already decided what people are going to say what is the point asking ? why do you ask the question in a way that is insulting to anyone who dares have a different opinion to you ?

Jed (someone who uses condoms but haven't joined a brigade)

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By *adchickCouple over a year ago

Cyprus

A level headed argument? With this statement?

"“Cleanliness vs. Courage”"

Shouldn't that be....

"Cleanliness vs. Stupidity"

Someone just had to do it didn't they!!

Personally, I'm part of the condom brigade and I'm a well known spokes- person FOR safe sex.

I've seen too many people I know catch undesirable diseases from unprotected sex whilst swinging and I know of more that don't get checked until it's blatently obvious to everyone that they have a problem, therefore, ensuring that a part of the swinging community snares the same disease. I also know a woman who shagged anything that had a penis (including couples) bareback for two years just to get pregnant. She's now had a child, the couple she destroyed in the process have split up and her lies have caused a wife to lose her husband and two children to lose their daddy.

Now give me a good reason for going bareback!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well said _adchick could not agree with you more as i'm a single male and i've meet couples & single females at either a club or we've arranged for me to go to their home or they come to my house. And i always tell everyone i meet i have 1 rule no condom no shag

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By *wabbitMan over a year ago

grimsby

2 resons why i wear a condom

1 to protect my health

2 to stop and little wabbits popping up in 9 months time

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Congratulations on the most prolific use of the word 'vicarious' I have ever seen in such a short passage!

I would have to agree with the others though... it is something which should remain vicarious in the most part, and left for people who know and trust eachother in long relationships.

I for one have never caught any STI's and would like to keep it that way... nor would I like anyone to have my child without my consent.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As we've said in the past,we've had some fantastic times swinging but none worth dying for.If its the thrill of danger barebackers are after,what about Russian roulette? At least that way - when it all goes tits up - the only person getting hurt is the player pulling the trigger. Probably a Hell of a rush too......'till the bang!

Trace & Ric

XXXX

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Most people who think about catching something through sexual means only think about themselves and how it will effect them,..and sometimes think about how annoyed they are about the person they caught it from.

They never think about all the [possible] hundreds down the line leading to thousands later.

Try an experiment of your own, find a profile of someone who plays bareback, have a look at their verifications, and add all those together,.. not many maybe, but then go to all those that have play and check out their verifications, and add them,.. you can go one as long as you want counting, but it will not be very long before you have hundreds in your count

If the person you started with has Aids,..then they all have.

Is that worth it??????????

S&A

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Madchick I must have read your mind, I read the post and the 'cleanliness vs courage' comment I couldn't believe, courage???? I wouldnt even agree the correct term for us condom brigaders is cleanliness its much more than that.

I would say its more like:-

trying to protect your health vs seriously risking your health

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By *adchickCouple over a year ago

Cyprus

I did think about putting...

Those who are social aware and responsible -vs- those egotistical feckwits who are playing with their and anyone they shags lives for the sake of a leg over and a fumble in halfwitville.....

but it just didn't roll of the tongue so easily!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You read her mind...............very short book............only joking miss

Jed has the right stance here in that rather than letting folks habits wind you up just live and let live.

If someone even hinted via their profile or any other contact at un protected sex then they would simply be ignored by us, plenty of others out there.

We enjoy clubs but You can have the biggest and nicest looking cock etc, and Mrs Two2 does like a big cock but if we saw you dipping it un bagged you and those you played with would, again simply be ignored by us.

What others wish to do is their choice and we would never question their right to do so but we never ever ever play without protection, without exception!!

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

~~~Happy to say we belong to the condom brigade.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Condoms all the way here

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By *adchickCouple over a year ago

Cyprus

Oi oi Mr Two2bonk.... back to ya corner with the rest of the witless wonders you call the boys gang! (short book indeed .. hhummmpppfff)

Annie xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Welcome back to the girlie gang!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Some of us are willing, I dont want to fight you,..I`m Good, I will do anything you like.... [ now wheres my smilie]

Stuart...x

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By *ildroseandthestagCouple over a year ago

liverpool

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By *adchickCouple over a year ago

Cyprus

Are you Arthur Dent or Ford Prefect this week WRATS?

Or maybe you feel a Marvin moment coming on!

hehehhehe

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By *ildroseandthestagCouple over a year ago

liverpool

well ill be fucked if i could muster more than the meaning of life in a numerical manner to this time old load of bollox when its served in such a shitty way.

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By *dinburgh_duoCouple over a year ago

edinburgh

Jed we totally agree with you

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By *lwayshorny70Man over a year ago

Redditch

i have condoms and are proud of it - anyone wanna help me use them lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I just wanted to add to this topic that std and stis can be passed on orally too and thru precum.

Does this mean all of you that are in the condom brigade use dental dams or oral with condoms only and you dont let anyone cum in or near your mouth just in case its swallowed?

I use condoms to prevent pregnancy really.And im not keen on spunk up my pussy anyway,which is just as well really lol.

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By *yclop OP Man over a year ago

belfast

Thanks for all your replies.

Thanks “Fun08time”, mea culpa, I'll try to edit more carefully next time.

Yes “_adchick”, Condom Brigade does roll off the tongue better.

And yes “_adchick” “Cleanliness vs. Courage” might have been a poor choice of options.

“SimplyJed” read my profile, but has no idea whether I belong in Categories Two, Three or Four.

Yes “TraceandRick”, Russian Roulette is a good comparison, though you have to count all the empty chambers in the cylinder not just the one loaded one. Category Three will have a very heavy weapon. Category Two might not be able to lift the gun. Category One would need a crane.

Disappointed no one made any comment about the categories I devised, The worst criticism I can make of Category Two is that the founders of the “family” more likely than not strayed into Category Three while recruiting the other members (I know we did); but then the couple in Category One had to discover each other somehow, and they are generally thought to be above reproach.

Disappointed that no one actually discussed motivation, that is important in understanding why people go bareback at all, why they behave responsibly or irresponsibly. And no one discussed the other sites I mentioned in Category Four.

Looking forward to further posts.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

Busty, I think everyone must weigh up the risks and decide whats best for them. Yes there are risks with oral too, but for me personally (Mrs)I will only ever swallow the Mr R's cum, never a playmates, but I would say that was more a personal thing, but given the potential risks involved, I probably wouldn't anyway.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

PS no one will ever be 100% risk free, a condom can break etc, but I think we will keep taking precautions, and that includes not going anywhere near anyone who plays bareback.

If we get the tag the "condom brigade" thats fine by us

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By *adchickCouple over a year ago

Cyprus

All hail Ruby for making complete sense...

I totally concur oh gorgeous one from the PussyPosse........

Now boys..... on ya knees to Ruby !!!

p.s. we even go so far as to check barebackers verifications and block those people also. No point in slapping ya chops round a willy thats been dipped in a pool of spunk thrown up a whole by another pile of ignorant halfwits.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

for us no condom no play. simple. i wouldnt meet someone who had bareback in their profile either

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

if u dont use a comdom your willy will fall off!!

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

Never mind about the boys being on their knees Madchick, I would rather them to be telling me to get on my knees.....preferably with the word "bitch" on the end of the sentance

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By *adchickCouple over a year ago

Cyprus

I love it when your domineering Ruby...

Sends me all wibbly at the knees (talking of knees ............ yum)

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ummmm... ever heard of HIV or Syphallis or... etc etc etc. I really don'y need to go on do I?

As a couple we fall into your 1st category... 'bareback' sex with each other yet protected when with others.

End of the day swinging is like boxing... If you don't wear that gum guard you will lose your teeth sooner or later!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well if bareback sex is your thing it’s your choice, not even gonna start to lecture you on it, we’re sure your aware of the risks, having said that swinging is a risk, we have never ticked the safe sex box on our profile and its not because we perform bareback sex with everyone we meet, it’s because there is no such thing as safe sex, there is no way I (mrs) would perform oral sex on a man wearing a condom, and we’re sure we’re not alone, but it’s the risk we’re willing to take, a condom for penetrative sex is a different thing altogether as it cuts down the risk and is a no brainer for most.

And that’s the reason we never tick the safe sex box, all that does is give people a false sense of security, although admittedly neither of us has ever caught an STI and any tests have always been clear, but that gives no indication that only using condoms for penetration has worked, that would be naive in thinking that, its more down to luck and maybe just maybe the people you are actually playing with are actually clean and don’t have an STI to pass on?

Anyway no scare mongering or judging from us, we applaud your honestly and accept that its your choice, so why cant you accept other peoples choices rather than ranting about the Condom Brigade who don’t want to take as much risk as you.

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By *ovCpl40sCouple over a year ago

coventry

Guess we will add our two penneth worth here!

Condoms are great and wonderful things but they do not guard against everything and anything! As has been pointed out the do split/break and oral sex does spread disease (yet to see a guard that lets you give a woman oral without your tongue making contact lol).

Having been used by the "get me pregnant" brigade (1 of those broken condom moments we found had been rigged!!) if thats yr thing fookin tell folks ya just want a sperm doner with extras lol. PS It didnt ruin our marriage ableit it did cause a real strain for a while!

As for the "if we see folks playing bareback we avoid at all costs" well we do go to clubs and parties and will never put a condom on when fucking each other so if you see us and didnt know we were a cpl how can you judge??? How many cpls wear a condom when fucking wives/husbands??

So guess we fall into the 1st catagory but dont catagorise folks because at the end of the day each 2 their own, our rules are exactly that ours and we expect them to be respected as we respect others!

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

I think _yclops was being sincere in starting this thread but perhaps as he has now stated his choice of words were a bit too provocative

Its clear that even if you use a condom it doesn't necessarily mean your safe and can forget the issues ...poor oral hygiene where the gum can leak blood and cross contaminate is a real risk and real issue but don't you have to quantify the risk and make your own judgement?

Yes condoms mitigate some of the risk and yes anything that does that is good

The couples who rely on bareback sex only with there partner, are solely reliant on that person not breaking that circle of trust via an affair or if they did, reliant upon the personal integrity of thier partner being honest and coughing to the fact that they have.

regular testing is helpful because if something gets by your personal choice of protection level , you pick up the infection quickly and either cure it or stop.

think thats all i want to say about that ...

MR X

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By *ichNjudyCouple over a year ago

stoke on trent

OK well let's see, if we may just play devil's advocate here for a minute....

No one seems to have stated the obvious answer. Those who bareback no doubt do it not through some sort of masochistic (how do you spell that?) tendancy or because they are stupid.... but no doubt because they ENJOY it.

Swinging brings risks no doubt, without doing more research we honestly couldn't say how much more risk it brings not using a condom for penetrative sex, but if you've just had your tongue, lips and fingers all over a ladies or guys private bits, and if you enjoy some group fun you have then probably had those same fingers tongues and lips immediately over some one else's bits, not to mention girls sharing toys.... then let's face it you take some form of risk.

There are two other things that make us wonder -

(1) Let's face it, statistically speaking, the chances of coming to serious injury or worse while DRIVING to a meet are greater than those of coming to harm during a meet - yet we travel without being overly worried, apparently.

(2) It beggars our belief how many people are happy to fill their lungs with carcinogenic crap on a daily basis for no reason apart from the fact they enjoy the CERTAINTY of damaging their health with possible fatal results (12 noted on this thread against 9 who have the sense not to)....

Yet they then worry that the cock/pussy they were just licking/sucking has the POSSIBILITY of harming them if it comes into contact with their own genitalia.

Go figure eh

xxxx

J&R

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By *yclop OP Man over a year ago

belfast

Thanks richNjudy

Very sensible post (good spelling too lol alwayus wish Fab had a spellchecker)

There have been too many posts on this thread which are just evangelical declarations, and one or two that are abusive.

Bareback sex is beautiful, but we have to make our own decisions about who with. Category Two is nearly as safe as Category One (apart from possible delving into Category Three during initial recruitment of the "family"; but as you say Category Three may be less dangerous than driving to the meets.

I was hoping for SOME discussion of the Categories I devised, where I would have expected overall agreement that Category Four was the most dangerous and least desireable.

Thanks again for your input.

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By *adchickCouple over a year ago

Cyprus

You think too much.

We are here to have fun..... I think enough at university thanks........

In my book.....condoms. I won't be thinking past that until I've finished uni in the summer.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

i aint even bothering to read this, some people have too much time on their hands lol

JUST SAY NO TO HUMPY BAREBACK OR UR COCK WILL FALL OUT

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

or off ffs haha

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Thanks again for your input."

Where is the shaking your head in disbelief smiley when you really need it? You can almost taste "patronising" in that post

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

in theory all the groups are acceptable in there own eyes ..and people have the right to view that risk differently

with the "do not use anything group" as long as they see it as a viable risk..and accept it ...its up to them...as one of the previous posters said "...its probably less risky than cigarettes..." (although i do not think its acceptable for a pregnant woman to put the health of an unborn child at risk with unprotected sex ....)

The couple ...well as i said ...lot of divorce about some of it about cheating so no real guarantee there unless the cheater is upfront and continues having safe sex with the other person.

Then again even with a condom anybody know how long various virus can live for outside the body and the potential subsequent risk through touch after removal ...i dont

At the end of the day its all about your personal view of what is an acceptable quantifiable risk isnt it ?..as long as your upfront,have regular testing and do not compromise others

mr x

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By *adchickCouple over a year ago

Cyprus

Your quote:

"have regular testing and do not compromise others "

Example: You get tested tomorrow. You are clear. You have unprotected sex on Friday and you catch gonhorreha. You have unprotected sex on Sunday, Tuesday, Friday, Saturday etc....

In six weeks time you realise that something isn't right. You go to the doctor who sends you back down to the GUM clinic. Whilst waiting for the test results you have unprotected sex.

You get my drift?

You get tested every 3 or 6 months. It takes 30 seconds to catch a disease. You can have chlymedia for years, herpes for months etc... before you know.

Unprotected sex just isn't worth the risk because all it takes is one person with something nasty to spread it round the swinging community within weeks...... a far shorter time than most people get tested!

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

that is very true ...and it assumes people have regular testing its true most do not .

But the assumption that wearing a condom is "safe sex" and a cure all is false, how many people use a male condom+female condom and oral dam which would really help the safe sex Ethos ......not many i bet, because there comes a point where the risk is quantifiable . I advocate safe sex ..but people have to make there own choices...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Prolific and I suspect mistaken use:-

Vicarious, adjective - Felt or undergone as if one were taking part in the experience or feelings of another.

Now thats the safest sex of all.

I do beleive that the vicarious thrill of watching your partner fuck another another man strikes fear into the hearts of the "straight" male swingers.

Dont you secretly wish you were playing with that huge cock? I know I do!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

not really sure that i understand the point of this thread. most people will choose to use a condom, some dont. if they get more pleasure out of that, and both parties are consenting, fine. personally, i like to save bareback for my partner, and apart from the risks dont enjoy the thought of sloppy seconds anyway. but each to his or her own. If you want to take the risk because it increases your pleasure, you need to be aware that the chances of getting infected are there, and you may subsequently infect someone else. I would not be happy playing with someone who i knew regularly had unprotected sex

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By *adchickCouple over a year ago

Cyprus

"But the assumption that wearing a condom is "safe sex" and a cure all is false"

I don't for one minute think that anyone from the 'condom brigade' thinks that just by wearing a condom it guarantee's totally safe sex. We all know the risks involved with oral, condoms splitting, unfaithful partners etc...... however, if sexual revolution has taught us nothing else, it has taught us that "free love and promiscuous sex without fear of repercussions" is no longer a viable option.

Personally, we use condoms with everyone apart from each other. We do not use dental dams because the risk is nominal. However, semen and female bodily fluid into the vagina or around the penis, are the main transferers of diseases like HIV and we cut that risk by a massive percentage by using condoms.

To have my vagina filled with someone else's, or even by half a dozen men's semen is not something I wish to even consider. If only one of those men has syphillis and he happens to go first, then the chances of the woman, the other men and her hubby catching it are so greatly increased that you could have a major outbreak on your hands within a week.

"but people have to make there own choices..."

I am all for freedom of choice, however, what I object to is those people who knowingly have unprotected sex with others and then meet couples, like me and hubby, pretending that they always play 'safe.' They are the people who put others at risk. I know the risks involved in oral sex but I do wish the barebackers would be truthful and tell us that is what they do, even if occassionaly. After all, I have no wish to suck another man's penis if it's been swimming around in a vagina or seman that has a higher risk of being infected than we would like.

The risks may be quantifiable but these risks would be greatly shortened if everyone who swung was honest.

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

quote :The risks may be quantifiable but these risks would be greatly shortened if everyone who swung was honest.

--------------------------

yep totally agree with you people who bareback then maintain they are safe should be blacklisted ,to be honest i am not sure its even legal ...been many cases where people have been prosecuted for knowingly infecting someone or making false claim..and rightly so !!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

i think there are more people going ' bareback ' than there ever was..seems to be a popular thing now..but as you say wen you start to think about the old adage wen you have sex with someone your also having sex with everyone the have ever been with! and with fok in the swinging community...well that could be a lot.lol...scares me to think that there are folk out there who boast that there wife fucked 7 guys bare back....i woulda taken her home for a detol bath....porn stars are tested every 6 weeks....for a whole gamet of sti's ...do these folk do the same??? i doubt it!!!!! shudders...!! nothing quite like a pussy pussy and a scabby cock to make things go with a bang....yummy!

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

What is even scarier is the latest research saying condoms do not stop HIV that even intact condoms have naturally occurring defects (tiny holes penetrating the entire thickness) measuring five to 50 microns in diameter -- 50 to 500 times the size of the HIV virus, ....

quote writes C. Michael Roland, head of the Polymer Properties Section at the Naval Research laboratory in Washington, D.C. and editor of Rubber Chemistry and Technology, in a published letter to the Washington Times. [In other words, just as rubber tires, over time, lose air, condoms (manufactured of the same product, rubber) also are porous.]

"... the rubber comprising latex condoms has intrinsic voids about 5 microns (0.0002 inches) in size," Roland states. "Contrarily, the AIDS virus is only 0.1 micron (4 millionths of an inch) in size. Since this is a factor of 50 smaller than the voids inherent in rubber, the virus can readily pass through the condom."

In addition, condom manufacturers allow 0.4 percent of any given batch to be defective, before a recall is ordered.

Very sobering stuff !!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

thats it im never having sex again!!!

off to the convent.........

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By *ichNjudyCouple over a year ago

stoke on trent

@_adchick

it had to be you again didn't it lol. sorry this is gonna be a long answer - please stick with it till the end....

quote

"You get my drift? You get tested every 3 or 6 months. It takes 30 seconds to catch a disease. You can have chlymedia for years, herpes for months etc... before you know. Unprotected sex just isn't worth the risk because all it takes is one person with something nasty to spread it round the swinging community within weeks...... a far shorter time than most people get tested!"

Come on, do some research first. What you are not taking into acount is transmission rates - that's the likelyhood of transmission of a disease on contact with an infected person. Also you are not taking into account the effectiveness of condoms to prevent some of the STDs

Let's start with HIV first as that's the most feared. Here's some facts

The most recent governemt figures we could find are for 2006. Estimates show that more than 80,000 people are now living with HIV in the UK.

We cannot tell for certain how many people are living with HIV because so many people’s condition is not diagnosed. The Health Protection Agency calculated that in 2006 there were 73,000 people living with HIV and on current trends that will have increased to over 80,000 during 2007. About one-third of people living with HIV are unaware of their infection.

% of people living with HIV

Diagnosed 69%

Undiagnosed 31%

This information is based on the Health Protection Agency’s estimates of the number of adults aged 15-59 living with HIV in the UK in 2006. 47,800 diagnosed and 21,600 undiagnosed. So it is an estimate but allows for a good proportion of folk who are infected with HIV but do not realise it.

For different groups, the proportion of people living with HIV is very different. For example, the table below shows the variation in the proportion of people testing positive for HIV amongst different groups of people attending sexual health clinics in England, Wales & Northern Ireland.

% of people testing positive *

Gay & bisexual men in London 23.3 %

Gay & bisexual men outside London 10.0 %

African-born women outside London 6.4%

African-born women in London 2.7%

African-born heterosexual men outside London 1.8%

African-born heterosexual men in London 1.6%

UK-born heterosexual men in London 0.4%

UK-born women in London 0.3%

UK-born women outside London 0.1%

UK-born heterosexual men outside London 0.1%

* - For each group, the percentage is calculated as the number of people with HIV divided by the total number of people tested for HIV. The figures are for people attending sexual health clinics so are likely to be higher than for people in the same group who have not needed to attend a sexual health clinic.

So now we know roughly how many people there are with this infection. if you only swing with other heterosexual partners then the risk of coming across one (so to speak) is about 1 in 1000 if you don't play with London swingers, and about 1 in 250 for London based swingers. Sorry that's not an insult to those living in the capital, it's government figures.

Interesting 92% of those infected are in england, with the remaining 8% split between Scotland (5% - 4000 cases) Wales (2% - 1600 cases) and Northern Ireland.(1% - 800 cases)

all above figures are from the governemt health site nat.org.uk

So now we have to look at the risk of contracting an infection if you are unucky enough to meet and play with an HIV+ person.

The risk of contracting HIV from one unprotected sexual act of penile to vaginal sex with an infected partner is around 1 in 1,000.(0.1%) This is for sex with a partner who already has symptoms of HIV. During the asymptomatic phase research shows the transmission rate is around 0.03% (or 1 in 3000) to 0.005% (or 1 in 200,000)

For receptive penile-anal sex the risk is much greater, i.e. 1 in 33 during the symptomic stage.

In a very rigorous study, a research team i the US (Dillon and colleagues) have clearly pinpointed oral transmission in approximately 7% of primary HIV infection cases. Originally, 16.4% of cases were thought to be due to oral transmission; however, on careful review, more than half of these cases had other possible risk factors.

Therefore if we take the number of cases of HIV transmission as being around 10% of the total number of transmissions, we can see that those who chose bareback are roughly 9 times more likely to contract HIV than those who do not.

However in fact the statistical risk to either group is very low. For those outside London barebacking with other couples in England the risk per sexual act with another person is about about 0.1% (infected population) x 0.1% (transmission risk for from those who already have symptoms and presumably know they are HIV+) or in other words about 0.0001% (about 1 in a million) . For those who use condoms for penetrative sex and no protection for oral sex it's 10 times lower - around 1 in 10 million.

Now let's have a look at a few more infections. I woun't go so much into depth but here are some interesting facts

Human Papillova Virus (HPV)

This is the most common STI in the UK. It is most probably transmitted by both skin-to-skin contact and also by virus present in the genital fluids. There are more than 100 types of HPV, a specific group of which leads to genital infection. Of these, the high–risk types are associated with cervical and anal cancers. Other, low-risk types cause genital warts and/or changes in cervical smears called dysplasia most of which spontaneously revert back to normal. There is no evidence that condom use reduces the transmission of HPV, presumably because transmission occurs from skin not covered by the male condom.

Herpes Simplex Virus (HSV)

Genital herpes infection results in multiple, painful blisters which shed virus particles. The condition is often recurrent and, though the frequency and severity of attacks can be reduced with antiviral drugs, it remains incurable. There is again no conclusive evidence that condoms offer substantial protection against HSV, though one recent paper has indicated that condoms give at least some protection to women against transmission from male partners.

Chlamydia

Chlamydia is the most common bacterial STI in the UK ( 121,986 cases, around 5% up on the previous year). It has a prevalence rate of up to 10% in sexually active women and frequently causes tubal damage and subsequent infertility, even though most infected women have no symptoms. There is no convincing evidence that condom use provides any protection use against chlamydia, though theoretically, it should offer at least some.

Syphilis

In the 21st century syphilis has become rather more common in the UK, largely as a result of small outbreaks in Greater Manchester, London, Bristol and Brighton. By 2005, the annual figures had reached 2,721. But since then they have declined slightly, and in the last year for which statistics are available (2007) there were just 2,680 cases in the UK. Of these, only 285 occurred in women. Just over 61 per cent of the remainder occurred in men who have sex with men.. The transmission method for syphilis is unprotected intercourse in about 80% of cases, and 20% by oral sex. For transmission to occur at all you have to come into contact with the sores or blisters caused by this condition, so knowing what they look like, and looking out for them is a good idea. Syphilis can be easily and completely cured by a course of anti-biotics, However the antibodies produced in the bloodstream by the bodies natural defences are not strong enough to prevent a person being reinfected at a later date.

Gonorrhea

There were 18710 cases of Gonorrhea in the UK in 2007, slightly down on the previous year. It can be spread through any kind of sexual contact, whether vaginal, oral, or anal. The gonorrhea bacteria will tend to infect mucous portions of the body like the genital tract, penis, rectum, throat, eyes and vagina. It is a myth that gonorrhea can be transmitted through contact with a toilet seat, by kissing or by touch. It is important to know however, that ejaculation does not have to take place for a gonorrhea infection to be transmitted or acquired. The gonorrhea bacterium (Neisseria gonorrhea bacterium) only requires the contact between genitals, or between the genitals and oral regions for transmission to occur. The transmission of gonorrhea to or from the throat will more easily occur through penile-oral sexual intercourse (fellatio), than through vagina-oral sexual intercourse (cunnilungus). Throat gonorrhea is always transmitted through oral sex with a person already infected with gonorrhea. So yet again, condoms only offer a limited protection, due to the other transmission methods (i.e oral sex) being prevalent within swinging circles. As with Syphilis, a simple course of anti-biotics is an effective cure.

OK so now we have some facts and access the risks. It would appear that for HPV, Herpes and Chlamydia those who like to bareback are at no significantly higher risk than those who practice unprotected oral, but use condoms for penetration. For Gonorrhea there is limited extra protection for condom users who perform unprotected oral. For Syphilis the risk is about 5 times higher for barebackers, but the number of infection cases is very low. For HIV the risk is about 10 times greater for barebackers but again the chances of infection (1 in 1,000,000) are very low.

If anyone wants the government and medical site names I used for this research just ask.

I could now qualify our previous statements, which we stand by 1- you're more likely to come to harm driving to a meet, and 2- smokers are taking a much bigger risk that barebackers with some factual data if anyone wants to take this discussion further

So _adchick - what do you think now?

xxxx

J&R

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

leave google alone!!! if u fuck without a condom u are likley to die simple lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

hey where did you get my essay??????

thats it convent for the lot of us!!!!!

would put you off yer lunch!!!!!

ill give you a wank ...just hold on till i don my marigolds lol lol lol

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By *ichNjudyCouple over a year ago

stoke on trent

sorry this should have read

Therefore if we take the number of cases of HIV transmission *by oral contact alone* as being around 10% of the total number of transmissions, we can see that those who chose bareback are roughly 9 times more likely to contract HIV than those who do not.

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

well there are currently 33 million people with hiv world wide amongst 6 billion people. unfortunately a lot of them are in poorer parts of the world Africa etc where up to 40 percent of the population are infected, Brazil I believe is another hotspot.

On the bright side they are developing a retrovirus for women which creates a natural barrier at the vagina and it has proved effective in mice so far with 100 percent success reported

i think you just got to make up your own mind personally i never sleep with anyone who has lived in or recently come from a hotspot location ,therefor information on who you intend to have sex with is vital in making you informed choice ...and as _adchick pointed out people have to be honest

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

what makes me laugh about u lot, is one thing is clear if u have sex with out a condom your risk of catching something is higher then if u wear a condom, but instead of agree on that, everyone feels they have to google and copy and paste so they look like they know more then the other person. its quite sad really.

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

quote ....hey where did you get my essay??????

thats it convent for the lot of us!!!!!

would put you off yer lunch!!!!!

ill give you a wank ...just hold on till i don my marigolds lol lol lol

----------------------------

LOL ohhh and i want to know where you went on holiday since 1984 ........

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

heheh thanx for the last bit lol lol lol

we can conclude that the evidence strongly advises us to superglue our bits shut, join a convent and take a lot of cold showers....but wheres the fun in that?

all we can do is communicate with potential sexual partners and be mature enough to ask pertinate questions ...do you 'bareback' do you attend gum clinics..many years ago i heard some one say if your to shy to ask a guy to wear a condom.....you dont know them well enough to have sex with them...ok on reflection was probably some teachers missguided attempt to stop us all shaggin! and in this lifestyle half the fun is meeting strangers.....and doing the nasty! lol

if we were to always adhere to rules and regulations, health warnings and scare tactics..we would never get out from under the duvet! and we certainly woldnt be swingers...in life you ahve to take some risks..but as long as ou keep your head when all around you are losing theirs....or should that be give head? lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Surely it does not matter if it is ONLY 9 timkes more dangerous. ANY amount of increased protection is for the better!

If people chose to play bareback it is their choice, just as it is our choice not to play with them.

However, people who do not use protection have a moral responsibility to let others know that they are high risk , thus allowing them to make an educated decision.

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

quote : what makes me laugh about u lot, is one thing is clear if u have sex with out a condom your risk of catching something is higher then if u wear a condom,

----------------------------

In terms of HIV i am not sure that is correct kitty .The data provided above does not include the factory fail rate of condoms and the natural micro holes in condoms where HiV is can get through the rubber ..Isnt it better to look at and deal in facts rather than blind "condom good...babreback bad " mantras ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

holiday? 1984? i was 12 lol....so prob butlins.

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By *ichNjudyCouple over a year ago

stoke on trent

@_leasuredome

Thanks for reading it and obviously looking furhter into this - and yes we left out the stuff about condom failure and micro-holes. We felt the case was already made. What we are trying to prove is not to scare anyone but to show the risks are very low for any type of swinger, bareback or not, and also the risks are more similar between the two groups than most think.

@naughty_kitty

quote "leave google alone!!!"

So are you honestly suggesting now that people should *not* properly evaluate the risks before they start doing something???? We looked into this in depth a couple years ago - when we started swinging. We would have been rather stupid not too, yes?

quote *if u fuck without a condom u are likley to die simple lol*

Oh come on for christ sake please READ our post. If you fuck with or without a condom you are NOT likely to die. The only fatal STD is HIV/AIDS and in that case yes the risk is about 10 times greater than if you perform unprotected oral. Fortunately in the UK at least, the risks are low eitherway. If you wish to dispute that further pelase post some researched facts for everyone to digest.

quote "what makes me laugh about u lot, is one thing is clear if u have sex with out a condom your risk of catching something is higher then if u wear a condom, but instead of agree on that, everyone feels they have to google and copy and paste so they look like they know more then the other person. its quite sad really".

We *never* disputed the risk of catching something is higher. Read our post!

And just as you riled us a bit now naughty_kitty we're gonna post some other figures we held back. We never meant to set on you smokers, as it's your choice and not something we would ever criticise but just for from cancer research UK here's some smoking statistics -

Smoking and cancer

Around 90% of lung cancer cases are caused by tobacco smoking and, in addition, the 2002 IARC Working Group concluded that tobacco smoking can also cause cancers of the following sites: upper aero-digestive tract (oral cavity, nasal cavity, nasal sinuses, pharynx, larynx and oesophagus), pancreas, stomach, liver, lower urinary tract (renal pelvis and bladder), kidney, uterine cervix and myeloid leukaemia. Overall tobacco smoking is estimated to be responsible for approximately 30% of cancer deaths in developed countries, that is, 46,000 deaths in 2005 in the UK. In fact it gets worse, about 23% of all deaths in men living in Europe and about 5% of all deaths in women are due to smoking, taking into account heart disease and oher illnesses, as well as cancer, about 106,000 people in the UK die each year due to smoking. If u smoke a fag after you fucked *with* a condom u are likley to die simple lol

And if *anyone* says "but smokers only harm themselves and do not risk the lives of others" then we'll get onto secondary smoking statistics, ok?

So naughy_kitty can we ask you if *you* properly researched the risks before you chose to smoke? Either you did and assessed the risk as "acceptable" or you were ratehr silly and did not. Try google it's easy

xxx

J&R

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

always people who aint getting laid spend so much time looking for sats and stuff JOKERSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

no condom risk! simple! i dont need to look up google to know that.

and start a new thread for smoking

so u can have more space for google copy and paste

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By *ichNjudyCouple over a year ago

stoke on trent

It's called "research".

We've got nothing against smokers in fact we will, and have met smokers and will happily continue to do so (even though we're non smokers, even though there is a risk of secondary effects)

Please if you want to stick to your "no condom you will die" message offer some factual proof. At the moment you seem intent on ignoring any.

xxx

J&R

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

my thought on bare back.

if u do it u have no respect for yourself or the person u are having sex with, it does not matter what u say u are at MORE risk if u DO NOT use a condom. not just hiv all the other std's including getting pregnant, it does not take listing google findings to know the truth.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

when a comment has LOL after it that says all it needs to say, u wanna be carefull on your high horse u might get hurt if u fall.

the facts i need to know are is , if u do not use a condom you are at more risk of catching something or getting pregnant, if this is wrong show me???

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By *ichNjudyCouple over a year ago

stoke on trent

Oh and for the record, as suggested at the start of this thread by the OP, we are type 2 who occasionally dip into type 3.

We have no issues with meeting swingers who prefer condoms for penetrative sex - we've played with loads of them - (even smoking ones LOL) and we're happy to respect everyone's wishes with those we play with.

We've only once found swingers who use condoms for oral sex and to be honest that did put us off meeting.

xxx

J&R

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By *ichNjudyCouple over a year ago

stoke on trent

@naughty_kitty

Sorry our posts crosses there.

We're not trying to annoy you here, we're trying to bring some facts to this discussion.

Yes bareback is riskier, we never denied it - if you read the long post we tried to quantify the risk (for HIV) about 10 times riskier.

We think a risk of in a million (roughy) per bareback encounter is OK. Even if say we are 10 times wrong, one in 100,000 would also be acceptable to us, we couldn't find and shag that many partners that many times if we took this up full time for life!

Also to be honest your (condom for penetration) risk (about 1 in 10 million - actually higher if u take into account condom failure and micro holes) is obviously acceptable to you. We bet even if it was 1 in a million you'd still be happy with that. Why not too, it's an acceptable risk level isn't it?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

i would rather know i have tried to protect myself (and other) then think fuck it i might be one of the lucky ones.

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By *ichNjudyCouple over a year ago

stoke on trent

Of course, and we couldn't criticise that.

Oh some good news for you kitty, the number of people in the UK carrying HIV varies vastly by age group.

Under 15 2%

15-24 4%

25-34 24%

35-44 42%

45-54 20%

55 and over 8%

In the 25-34 agegroup (which you state you are looking for) there is even less of a risk to you.

Oh and we just realised (hadn't even looked at your profile) you're playing as a single fem. That to us explains a lot of your viewpoint. We'd never bareback with singles at a club etc.

xxx

J&R

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

QUOTE ...always people who aint getting laid spend so much time looking for sats and stuff JOKERSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

-----------------------------

Is that informed research on your part or just guessing again ? we are all entitled to enter into and express opinions.... Wearing a condom does not ensure you will not catch HIV through penetrative sex it is however helpful it must be .Now i dont care about whether you choose to use them or not ...its your choice.. the same way people who don't use em (because the increased risk is minimal given the amount of carriers in the uk) have a choice.i would rather make that cyhoice on evidence rather than doctrine

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

Quoted "Even if say we are 10 times wrong, one in 100,000 would also be acceptable to us, we couldn't find and shag that many partners that many times if we took this up full time for life!"

It only takes one infected person to pass anything on.

I have read all the statistics and the arguments for and against but it doesn't change my mind.

I would rather lessen the risk than take a chance.

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By *adchickCouple over a year ago

Cyprus

^^^ what she said, because I seriously can't be arsed to read the rest!

I'm off to Uni now..... will be back Wednesday......

Play nicely you lot!

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By *eznhannahCouple over a year ago

leeds

dont often comment on forum but this is a silly pretentious post from a silly man with a pretentious profile

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

I thought it was probably the best debate on the subject ever held on fabs

It dealt in current facts not fiction. And both sides of the fence put up really valid arguments to support there thinking ,and many agreed it was up to the individual to decide but you must be honest in whatever it is you decide ...75 + responses ...

i dont think it was

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By *yclop OP Man over a year ago

belfast

I'm delighted that this thread has turned into a much more useful discussion than it appeared at the start.

Many thanks to "richNjudy" (and others)for excellent and informative research.

My girl and I feel that for those who actively enjoy bareback, that Category Two is the idyllic and by far least risky scenario, and Category Three is occasionally justified.

I had hoped for some real discussion of motivation, even the motivation of people in Category Four. I have received PMs on this from people who did not want to be exposed to evangelical declarations, but little on the forum.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Wow.. just been reading some of all this and it seems were missing out lol... Some seem to infer that people who swing do so several times a week lol.. Bloody hell!!!!

We still think a BIG part in staying safe is also to choose carefully, granted not the only way before we get slaughtered.. but as we generally stick with the same people and get to know quite well, stay safe too, not shag anything with a pulse AND have regular checks (for our peace of mind lol) We think we have most things covered .. pardon the pun lol.

Of course we see new people now and then.. why would we be here if not but we also choose carefully who we decide to play with and how lol...

Mike and Julie x

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By *ichNjudyCouple over a year ago

stoke on trent

@Mike and Julie

We agree - thinking carefully and choosing who you would like to do what with is a very important factor.

One thing you mentioned made us think. We can't tell exactly from your profile where you stand on the condoms issue yourselves (you tick the safe sex box but you could be one of those type 2 couples mentioned at the start of the thread) but anyway your mention of getting regular checks made us wonder...

Are couples who play bareback (of whatever type) more likely to get regular checks than those who always use condoms - i.e. is it possible to get a false sense of security?

Also talking about regular checks - everyone reading this chould think about this. Most would have to agree that the chances of getting HIV are fortunately very low, but there is one STI in particular thats....

1. prevelant in maybe as many as 10% of sexually active females under the age of 25 in the UK It is less prevalent in other age groups but anyone swinging really ought to consider themselves a risk.

2. often has no symptoms (if it does it usually causes burning sensation when you pee or an itching of the pussy/willy)

3. is very infectious -approx 33% chance of transfer in a single encounter with an infected person

4. easily transfers by unprotected oral sex, and

5. can have serious long term health risks if not treated.

The good news is it's easily treated by a single course of antibiotics leaving you completely clear from infection, though not immune to reinfection.

That one is *Chlamydia* and we would hope that most people are aware of it.

Anyone reading this regardless if you ever bareback or not really should get checked for this one - it's easy to do - the nhs offer free testing via your gp or via walk in health centres if you prefer not to go to your doctor.

It would be interesting to know though how many people get regular tests (or tested at all) and are bare backers (even very occaional ones) more likely to take tests regularly?

xxx

J&R

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By *ichNjudyCouple over a year ago

stoke on trent

occaional = occasional. we really could do with an edit button on the forums!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

one coming soon guys,.... honest

S&A

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The reason we say what we say is because no matter how safe you think your being there is always a risk!!

We have had it where we saw a couple for ages we knew them well and felt very comfortable with them.. but she had an allergy to latex so we used latex free.. Apart from feeling like a dodgy bin bag they were very prone to splitting all the time.. This means in effect for a brief period we were in fact having unprotected sex yeah.. yes we kept replacing them.. but the buggers kept on giving way (Durex too lol) a pack of 6 went in about 15 mins.. and no I'm not hung like a horse either.. It happens, happened to me and were sure as hell it must happen to others..

So choosing partners carefully is another way of staying safe.. Not foolproof but then NOTHING is eh!!

Never had a problem, don't care for one either lol...

Mike and Ju xx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

i love the bareback threads lol

As adult we all make our own choices and if someone has bareback sex i don't see why it bothers everyone else

How many of the people who are anti bareback use condoms during oral? theres are a cpl of STI's that are only passed during oral, and a few that can be past thro oral and full sex, yet i have never had a guy insist on me putting a condon on befor i suck him, i have never had a guy carry dental dams to use on me befor oral, so all of them are willing to rist catching or passing something during oral, if your doing to be anti bareback you have the rights to be that but to me you must also use protection during oral or your just being a hypacrit!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So good you said it twice lol....

Agree though.. to a degree, hence what we said to start with.. Safe sex is so much more than a condom.

True safe sex round ours involves a good deep padded headboard.. No bumping of heads.. Big Big cushions.. in case of falling off the bed.. Lots of water.. Dehydration is a bummer.. and saps energy.. Alcohol, in case they start to realise were actually mingers.. We think we have it pretty well covered...

Any other suggestions to keep it safer are always welcomed..

Mike and Ju x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

sorry i got a stutter, its the cold! lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

you need something warm inside...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well the way we see it is this…..

If we are prepared to take it in another orifice without a condom then we are in no position to criticise anyone for taking it in any.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

My orfice is for staff only ... were posh see.. lol.

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By *adchickCouple over a year ago

Cyprus

I'm putting a curse on all the barebackers that they cop a dose of something disgusting, that turns very green and smelly, burst through their undies, runs down their legs and spills out into a puddle of seeping stinking ooze on the floor while they are in the middle of Tesco........

So there.......

Ner ner ner

**hhehehehehehhehehe**

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

does that go for oral barebakers too?!!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

bollocks there no edit button on here no more to correct typos is there? lol

backers* lol

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

just to reiterate like an old worn out record ...condoms do not make you safe ....HIV can go straight through the rubber and also manufacturers are allowed a 0.4% failure rate before they have to recall ....dont rely on em ...!!!!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As my friends 13 year old daughter correctley argued with me the other day, only one thing in life is 100%garenteed. DEATH.

So the condom companys can not garenteed that condoms are failsafe, however they do reduce the transmission of infections and pregnancy.

The suggestion that they do not was progander started by one of the Vatican's most senior cardinals Alfonso Lopez Trujillo who said that HIV could even pass through condoms.

There is NO research to substanciate this claim.

Personally its a matter of risk analysis, I prefer to use condoms as I believes they reduce the risk of infection (and less messy), however i do not use them for oral sex, having said that i don't like cum in my mouth, with also reduces the risk.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Where do you like it???

Well someone had to ask lol...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

lol, i do sound a fussy sod i know, lol and i am. I dont mind it (occasionally) on my tits. But mostly, i like it in a condom and dealt with by its producer, lol.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think at the end of the day, it is personal choice and what you really feel happy with. I have no doubt that when we were all younger and before AIDS/HIV etc became a massive issue and was publicised, many of us may have taken risks re unprotected sex.

Like most who now realise the risks, I will not agree to have unprotected sex with someone i meet. Unfortunately, that has resulted in some not wishing to meet me as they only want bare back.

It has taken me a little longer to accept the risks in smoking, but I am now into week 3 of quitting and the heebie jeebies have just about gone LOL.

I could go on about what exactly is safe sex anyway. Whether you take it to be just be using protection or even extend it to personal safety with regard to whom and where you first meet. I have heard some stories of people being set up and either attacked or robbed etc when arriving for meets. So for me it goes a little further than wearing me wellies in bed.

Be yourselves, do what you are happy with, but at the end of the day, respect others wishes and boundaries. If it's not for you then say no, and accept others also have the same right.

Have fun.

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

QUOTE -So the condom companys can not guarenteed that condoms are failsafe, however they do reduce the transmission of infections and pregnancy.

The suggestion that they do not was progander started by one of the Vatican's most senior cardinals Alfonso Lopez Trujillo who said that HIV could even pass through condoms.

=====================================

I did not know about the vatican guy ..however the evidence comes from scientific sources ...According to an article by the Alan Guttmacher Institute, published in Planned Parenthood's Family Planning Perspectives May/June 1989, condoms have an 11.4 to 22.3 percent failure rate among teens. Also Studies of five brands of condoms, reported in the British Journal of Medicine July 11, 1987, showed a failure rate of 26 percent due to rupture and slippage alone. And the New England Journal of Medicine Mar. 23, 1989 showed condoms have a failure rate of 10 to 33 percent for preventing pregnancies in women 25 years and younger.

These figures of course represent rates of pregnancy. However, a woman is fertile only certain times of the monthly diseases can be transmitted at any time. And condoms cannot provide adequate protection, industry officials have now admitted.

Even intact condoms have naturally occurring defects (tiny holes penetrating the entire thickness) measuring five to 50 microns in diameter -- 50 to 500 times the size of the HIV virus, This information is from C. Michael Roland, head of the Polymer Properties Section at the Naval Research laboratory in Washington,who is also editor of Rubber Chemistry and Technology, in a published letter to the Washington Times.

In other words, just as rubber tires, over time, lose air, condoms (manufactured of the same product, rubber) also are porous.]

quote....."... the rubber comprising latex condoms has intrinsic voids about 5 microns (0.0002 inches) in size," Roland states. "Contrarily, the AIDS virus is only 0.1 micron (4 millionths of an inch) in size. Since this is a factor of 50 smaller than the voids inherent in rubber, the virus can readily pass through the condom."

Even if there were no pores in latex, in-use breakage and slip-off rates are "so high as to make condoms ineffective for protection against HIV," says biochemist and molecular biologist Dr. David G. Collart, Ph.D., of Stone Mountain, Ga.

In fact, "the U.S. government has withdrawn a $2.6 million grant to study condoms because 'an unacceptably high number of condom users probably would have been infected in such a study,'" he says, citing a 1989 article published in Infection.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ooer... Tooo techie for me!

But I still recon your banging your head on a brick wall... You also have to take into account how people feel.. Safety as we were saying earlier is also a frame of mind eh.. If you feel safe etc. I mean you wear a seat belt, have an air bag etc.. makes you feel safer eh.. fact is it might not save your life but I bet you won't buy a car without one in now lol... eh!!!

Said it mnay times now so will shut up about it lol... Safety is soooo much more than JUST a condom..

Mike and Ju x

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By *adchickCouple over a year ago

Cyprus

Don't you just love google!

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

quote ...Don't you just love google!

------------------------------------

Yeah but i would not normally post a tech response like that but i felt i had to respond to hotnwets post saying that its all propaganda from the vatican ...

I feel strongly that everyone understand we have been conned into thinking that condoms are the cure all solution to HIV and it isnt ...the size of other virus's i am looking into now to see if they are actually a barrier to any std.... i feel this information is important to both the safe sex and the bareback camp and is not meant to support either ethos ....just to get the facts ...as these facts are being taught to our kids now in schools and if its wrong information we need as parents to put em right ...

soap box now out of sight .......(for now ) lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

To be honest yes we use condoms mainly for the safty reasons but also because there are some things we like to keep to just us, bareback being 1 of those things not only because we are trying to protect ourselves but just because we like that being exclusive for us and our relationship.

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

yeah i can see that ...its a bit like some people wont kiss as they save it for "the soul mate" I think its nice ...

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By *eakcoupleCouple over a year ago

peak district

Yes, neither of us used condoms when we were in our teens and twenties - almost all sexually active girls took the pill, and AIDS just didn't exist. Condoms were a bit of a joke 'something for the weekend' from the previous generation. The general attitude amongst us and our young friends was that real sex involved boys cumming in girls without any barriers. The only time G recalls using them was with an RC girlfriend who believed contraception was a mortal sin - for her, but not for her lovers, who she made wear condoms!

While we wouldn't swing without using them now, we have very occasionally not used them with strangers, but not for several years now. It's just too dangerous.

We don't believe in keeping any sexual practices just for the pair of us - we kiss others, and wouldn't use condoms if it was totally safe without. In our opinion if you're going to have sex with somebody and give and get the maximum pleasure from the experience, there's little point in holding anything back.

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By *adchickCouple over a year ago

Cyprus

Oi _leasuredome.....

You've been ready my profile again, haven't you! eh! eh!

hehehehhehehehehhe

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

thought you had been quiet ...and how you get the writing to go over the screen like that ....

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

Thankyou for your hard work on this anything that opens the debate on a subjest of safety is welcome ...but can we leave religion out of it and deal in facts i am not a religious person quite the opposite ..

Sorry you have not been able to find the findings out the original articles as it was sent to the washington post i will try to find it and let you know what copy it was in .

The figures you have put fwd tho of a 2.5% failure rate due to seepage seems to bear out the original ethos of the condom not being totally safe which is what is currently being taught to kids in a mantra like style .

anything else i get i will post to you ..its nice to have someone searching for facts too .

MR X

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I wrote the post in word and cut and pasted it into the site, which may explain why it went over the egde. Pleasure, I have emailed you the links and a bit more.

I mentioned religion based on the facts that i uncovered whislt trying to find anything that substaniated your findings Pleasure, Which as you will see i didn't.

As for the "mantra" I think that you will find that any responsible clinic will only ever say that condons are 90-95% effective !!!!!!!with correct USE!!!!!!!!!!

As i said, its about safer sex, not totally safe sex

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I still say Padded Head Boards.. and scatter cushions.. Can't be too safe now eh xx

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

replied to you offline

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By *ichNjudyCouple over a year ago

stoke on trent

Hi there to all on this thread again... and we have to say how good it is to see it is still being so actively debated.

Now if we may go back several days (and to another thread related to this one as well).......... The sentiment was raised by several members that they would be happy with the current situation if those who enjoy a bit of skin to skin contact and are happy with the incresed risks (be it type 2 or 3 or whatever as was defined at the start of this thread) were honest about what they like to do.

Then they went on to say n almost the same sentence (and rather nastily in our opinion) that they want people to be honest so they can then block them and all the others on their verifications and so on and so on from ever meeting them!

Now don't you who made those coments feel that is a very counter-productive attitude?

Can't they see that this sort of sentiment most probably makes some people go "underground" in the first place and causes this dishonesty to begin with?

Some one also said "action should be taken to make it harder for people to play in both camps"

We honestly are quite happy being type 2 occasionally type 3 bareback. We also absolutely *respect* the views of couples we meet who prefer to use condoms and always do so if that is their wish, and in fact we have quite a few friends who we always use condoms with.

If perhaps the, what was it called "condom brigade" - someone else's sentiment, not ours - took the same balanced and respectful view then this debate would no longer really need to take place as everyone would be honest about their preferences. Wouldn't that be a better world to swing in?

For ourselves, for quite a while we ticked "enjoys safe sex" because we did and still do enjoy it. We're not one of these "can't use condoms" couples. Now we don't tick it as we think it is a rather unfair question (just because you enjoy one does that mean you can't enjoy the other)

Perhaps really we should have a box for safe(r) sex and a box for bareback and then we can be completely honset and tick both.

Actually from our own experience we get about the same amount of meets whether we tick "safe sex" or not.

xxx

J&R

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We just can't understand why ppl who enjoy bareback with strangers so much feel the need to swing with the "condom brigade".We (and we're sure many other condom users) have no desire to swing with them.Thats the reason we wish they were honest about it.We make no appologies for being blunt about it because we're talking about our health here,or maybe our lives.Theres no way either of us wants Trace to suck a cock thats recently been plunged into a variety of different semen inside a so called "cum slut" at a gang bang.Call us unadventurous but we'd prefer to abstain.

Trace & Ric

XXXX

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By *uttleyMan over a year ago

cambridge

I have to say quite frankly im shocked

In a country with the weather we have i thought everyone would be wearin raincoats!!!

Joking aside my philosophy is this

swinging is about fun and hopefully not being judged for it....that said my personal opinion is ...i would like to be able to continue having fun for as long as possible and if by taking a risk of catching an sti or worst case HIV for the sake of a quick thrill i can no longer have fun then id be quite honestly a complete moron.

each to their own i wont judge either way but its simply not something i want to risk for myself or for any of you lovely ladies(potential meets) 0

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By *adchickCouple over a year ago

Cyprus

"Then they went on to say n almost the same sentence (and rather nastily in our opinion) that they want people to be honest so they can then block them and all the others on their verifications and so on and so on from ever meeting them!

Now don't you who made those coments feel that is a very counter-productive attitude?

Can't they see that this sort of sentiment most probably makes some people go "underground" in the first place and causes this dishonesty to begin with?"

----------------------------------------------------------

Ohhhh boo hoo

Regardless of how much condoms protect or don't, or what can get through the barrier, or can't, many people would rather have the sense of safety that condoms bring because they DO protect from alot of diseases.

If those of us that belong to the 'condom brigade' want to block people who bareback and we want to block their verifications also, then we should be able to. If we want to protect our lives and our health as far as possible, then we have every right to do so.

If the barebackers don't like it and think we are being nasty........ tough shite matey.

Everyone has the right to protect their own health as far as it is possible and NO-ONE has the right to put someone else's health at risk knowingly. So NO, I don't feel counter-productive. It's like trying to protect your child. If you knew someone was a drug dealer, would you do your best to keep your child away from them and their 'mates?.......... of course you would. This may be a bad analogy but it serves my purpose.

If we know someone could risk our sexual health, we do everything we can to stay away from them and their 'mates'

For those barebackers who don't like it and feel the need to be driven underground, thats their problem, not ours.

We've done a very discreet question and answer session (within a gossip or a chat before playing) and if we are not happy with the answers....... cya!

As the the 'We can't use condoms'....... what utter bollox. Water based condoms will protect those that have a latex allergy......... or do soft swing and use gum guards.

I feel sorry for the barebackers, they will never win the argument against the 'condom brigade'

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You ever tried those latex free ones lol... Personally i'd say anyone thinking of using latex free should train 'at home' first lol... Awful bloody things .. absolutely awful lol..

Mike x

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By *adchickCouple over a year ago

Cyprus

Do tell of your experiences my lovely...

I could do with a good laugh!

hehehhehehehehe

**Maddie lurves the Notts really**

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The latex free ones just tear.. split and seem to disolve during use lol...

One time.. a whole pack of six just during one sess lol.. Not erotic in the slightedt lol.. Twanging up me ever third stroke lol...

And no.. not hung like a donkey either lol..

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By *adchickCouple over a year ago

Cyprus

I want to send you a big fat grin here!

Where's the fooking smilies????????????????????????????

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Any bloke will tell you the last thing needed is a flick with the ol laggy band just as the saps rising....

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By *adchickCouple over a year ago

Cyprus

Sorry sweetie......

Can't stop laughing here.......

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Its funny you laugh.... she did just the same, have you a sister lol...Allergic one???

lol..

Mike x

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By *ichNjudyCouple over a year ago

stoke on trent

quote trace & ric

We just can't understand why ppl who enjoy bareback with strangers so much feel the need to swing with the "condom brigade"........

Hi Trace Hi Ric.

There are couple a plenty who are "type 2" as defined at the start of this thread. Just because they enjoy some bareback among a close group of friends does not mean they *don't* enjoy safe sex with others outside of that group. That's part of the problem with the"enjoy safe sex" tick box - if someone enjoys both and ticks it they are being completely honest are they not?

quote

Theres no way either of us wants Trace to suck a cock thats recently been plunged into a variety of different semen inside a so called "cum slut" at a gang bang.

uuuugh! that is a disgusting thought and something we would never want to do!! Bareback sex like bisexuality has a great diversity of levels. Anyway gangbangs are not our thing, we are honest about that, we don't tick it on our enjoy list, and neither do a lot of others in "both" camps

OK let's turn this question around, if hostility (for want of a better word) is *not* causing some people to be dishonest about bareback, then who can explain what does cause it?

xxx

J&R

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

High five to _adchick !

I can't understand why having a preference is being described as nasty.

People like us who will only use a condom when having sex with strangers are doing it out of choice, choosing to block anyone you think is doing bareback is the same as blocking an age group/gender etc....it isn't being nasty, just your own preferences.

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By *adchickCouple over a year ago

Cyprus

"OK let's turn this question around, if hostility (for want of a better word) is *not* causing some people to be dishonest about bareback, then who can explain what does cause it?"

--------------------------------------------------------------

It's not hositility that causes people to be dishonest.

It's the fact that they KNOW that most sensible people wouldn't want anything to do with them. They know the risks, they know in this day and age that it's beyond STUPID to swing bareback and they just want to appear as responsible, intelligent people who others will want to have sex with.......

As for this quote

"There are couple a plenty who are "type 2" as defined at the start of this thread. Just because they enjoy some bareback among a close group of friends does not mean they *don't* enjoy safe sex with others outside of that group. That's part of the problem with the"enjoy safe sex" tick box - if someone enjoys both and ticks it they are being completely honest are they not?"

-------------------------------------------------------

That is a problem!

A couple may play bareback with certain 'trusted' people and that couple may, in all essence, be 'faithful' to that couple. However, if another couple or single who are trusted then have other trusted friends and just one of them plays bareback with a disease carrier, then the whole 'friends of friends of friends' senario becomes a nightmare.

It only takes ONE infected person to infect a whole plethora of others. And lets be honest, you can't trust anyone else to not do something stupid.

Example: A friend of mine used to swing with a ring of couples and they all trusted each other. One of the other couples also had their own set of 'special' friends. All played bareback with each other.

One of the coupes within that 'other' group, played bareback with a man who had genital warts........

Want to know what happened next?

I think you can guess but my friend ended up with genital warts and a trust issue that now leaves my paranoia about safe sex in the gutter!

Just one person to mess up 10 or 15 other couples lives........

Thats why sensible couples will only ever play with condoms and even go as far as to block barebackers verifications and friends.

They may only be 95% effective but at least these couples can be pretty dam sure that they safe from most diseases.

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By *ichNjudyCouple over a year ago

stoke on trent

Hi _adchick

You're absolutely right "nasty" and "hostility" was the wrong word to use. Preference is exactly what it is and exactly what we should have said.

Now in your opinion are *we* doing the right thing in being honest about our preference and honestly putting ourselves in group 2, and attempting to openly debate our reasoning with some factual data, or are you suggesting we would be better off keeping our mouths shut and never posting on this thread to start with?

Re HPV (the cause of genital warts) it is transmitted by skin to skin contact so fair point about how one person can affect a whole group but condoms very probably would not have prevented that group getting infected either if they were also performing unprotected oral sex or even intimate contact.

Actually do you know, was it the two whole groups who picked up the infection or just one or two of them?

But anyway if it had happened to a freind of ours sure we would be very concerned by it, wouldn't anyone?

Actually we feel probably the reason people are perceived as being dishonest is because the question is wrong.

Putting "safe sex" under "enjoys" is probably a bad place to ask the question in the first place. Also what should you tick if you enjoy both?

What should you tick if you feel unprotected oral is not exactly "safe sex" as someone else posted much earlier on this thread.

At the end of the day it's all about risk assessment isn't it, and what risk level you feel comfortable enough with.

facts.

approx 2000 smoking related deaths per day in the uk

approx 100 alcohol related deaths per day in the uk

approx 10 road fatalities per day in the uk

between 1 & 2 aids related deaths per day in the uk

Most likely the booze is gonna kill us and we are honest enough to realise that, we really ought to drink less and know that we exceed our daily limits much too often. we sometimes cut it down for a while but it tends to creep back up again. If we do get to tee-total we may look at bareback as an unnaceptable risk as well.

Though before that we'll probably decide to bareback and only accommodate rather than only safe sex and only travel because statistically it is probably safer lol

Almost any other STI we could be subjected to (with varying risks of infection both orally and penetrative) can be effectively treated with antibiotics etc.

xxx

J&R

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By *adchickCouple over a year ago

Cyprus

"Almost any other STI we could be subjected to (with varying risks of infection both orally and penetrative) can be effectively treated with antibiotics etc."

--------------------------------------------------------

That has to be the most STUPID comment I have ever had to witness on here!

FFS.......You want to give yourselves permission to bareback because it's ok, a quick trip to the clap clinic and their over worked, underpaid staff with happily dole out antibiotics to get rid of an STI that you caught, but it's fine because you are older, wouldn't know any better cus all the bumpf about STI's is aimed at teenagers, and of course you only play with trusted couples...........

Then that is up to you.

But never try to preach the power and positivity of antibiotics to anyone but your own twisted selves!

Good god, I hope you don't have sexually active children...... I can just see it now.....

'don't worry dear, you do what you want, the doctors of the GUM clinic is only down the road and we pay our taxes so you can get a dose of antibiotics to treat anything nasty you may get around your genitals'

I don't care if condoms are only 96.5% effectives........ they still give me 96.5% more fooking protection than those that bareback.

I actually used to think that these boards might throw up some interesting and informed debates..........but I re-realised...... it only takes one idiot to show human kind for what it is........ inherently stupid.

I think I'll be keeping out of debates that ring with stupidity and idiocy for a while because I am really really ashamed of what is posted on here sometimes.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I havent got an Edit button at the moment, so cant cut out some of the bits that I might like to here,..so please just be a little careful where we go with this please

S&A

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Soo..... Are we saying then that bareback is bad then lol......

Mike xx

he he he xx

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By *adchickCouple over a year ago

Cyprus

Eeeerrrrrr.............

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By *ichNjudyCouple over a year ago

stoke on trent

I think I'll be keeping out of debates that ring with stupidity and idiocy for a while because I am really really ashamed of what is posted on here sometimes.

---------------------------

No honestly it's OK Stuart, don't worry we will no longer continue to post on this thread either.

We have tried our best to make some reasoned points based on some actual facts and data over something which we know is a very controversial matter. We're not trying to "change anyone's mind" we just hoped for an open debate.

Obviously we are very stupid in doing so. The more reasoned we try to be over this issue the more aggresive it seems to get.

Oh for the record we don't have *any* children nor have we ever contracted any STI though maybe we'll go for another check up soon like *every* promiscuous adult should.

xxxx

J&R

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By *adchickCouple over a year ago

Cyprus

What some forumites have done is to try and make out that bareback is ok in certain circumstances because of course, you can trust others..... can't you!

Some forumites have tried to tell us that it's ok to catch an STI because there are antibiotics to treat those diseases.

And some have tried to bamboozle us with statistics from Google (actually, there's fault on both sides for that)

I never intended for this to become a 'them and us' campaign but whereas the condom brigade fully understand that the effectiveness of condoms is not guaranteed at 100%, it would appear that the barebackers (which ever category they fall into) can't, for the life of them, realise that those that refuse to bareback refuse to do so because they feel that the 96.5% safety net that condoms give you, is better than having a fanny full of infected sperm. (I'm not even going to the oral sex debate because thats been done to death before and the chances of catching an STI through oral sex and extremely remote........ and don't start whopping up pages of Google crap)

I don't for one minute think that anyone is trying to 'change' anyone's mind but this has always been and will always continue to be, an emotive subject.

If the 'condom brigade' don't want to touch barebackers or their sexual conquests, then that is their CHOICE.

It's not nasty, it's not hostile, it's CHOICE.

We, for instance, have some friends (loosely termed) that bareback, many that have a trust circle and many that are part of the 'condom brigade'. Because we tend to swing within a certain area, we actually know who they play with. We also know who swings bareback sometimes but say they don't. We don't touch these peole with a bargepole. (and yes, I know, this isn't 100% effective either)

We, for one, would rather limit the amount of people we can play with as a further codicle to safe sex than just shag anyone because it makes us 'better' swingers. For example, we have gone through all the profiles of the forumites and those that bareback in any situation have been blocked, as have their verifications.

I know it's not 100% but I'm happier.

As for the side swipe about getting checked. We get checked every 3 months. Most of my friends also get checked every 3 months. If people choose not to get checked then there is very little I can do about it but it does fill me with a sense of foreboding sometimes that swingers can't see the dangers of sexual promiscuity. If everyone in this 'hobby' got checked, we wouldn't be having these debates so often....... but lets be honest..... human nature does tend to cloud peoples judgement.

R&J...... you have put some very valid points across, points that I can argue but won't because that's your choice BUT, you have also put across some remarks that smack of idiocy and a 'so what' attitude. I personally think that the 'antibiotics' paragraph was pure stupidity, many will agree with many, some will not, but you can't try to level and reasoned arguement with that kind of inane, ill thought out bollox.

I hope to carry on reasoned debates with you concerning other issues, however, with regards to this one............ we will never agree and I will never bring myself down to your feeble way of thinking.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

i am selling condoms 100 for a fiver who wants some LOL

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By *ichNjudyCouple over a year ago

stoke on trent

OK maddie that's fair comment

Our "anything else we may be exposed to can be easily treated" although a factual point was probably best not stated that way and does sound rather flippant when we read it again, you are right.-

We should have better said that "most other STI's although no doubt very unpleasant to contract if heaven forbid we ever did -let's face it who actually *wants one* - at least they can be treated and won't kill us.

We don't really agree with the vastly reduced likely hood of contracting an STI orally over bareback - at least not for some of them - For some STI it is very reduced, for others it is slightly reduced.

We also feel and did raise this before that condoms can raise a false sense of security. Were glad to see you get yourself checked regularly. In fact to be honest we would not have expected any less. We are no different from you there, see we do have some respect for our sexual health, we just don't agree over how much extra risk bareback has over unprotected oral.

We bet a lot don't get checked until something happens and we'd hazard a guess - not based on any facts this time - that a lot think "i use condoms i'm safe"

xxxx

J&R

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

At the end of the day its personal choice why the debate at all.

If you want to use condoms then use them,if not dont.

Simple as that.

If you dont want to meet people who dont use them then dont.

If you do then do.

What is the problem here?

As long as the other person is willing to take the same risks or not. its an individual CHOICE.

With or without i really cannot understand people that dont get checked at the very least once a year.

The clinic we attend are aware that we swing.

Are people who dont get checked ashamed of what they do?

Remember one mans meat is another mans poison so to speak.

If you dont want intimate contact with someone without a condom then dont have it.

That person cannot force you too can they.

Craig x

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By *lirty14uMan over a year ago

Milton Keynes

Condoms - good for Flu...

Miss Beatrice, the church organist, was in her eighties and had never been married. She was admired for her sweetness and kindness to all.

One afternoon the pastor came to call on her and she showed him into her quaint sitting room.

She invited him to have a seat while she prepared tea. As he sat facing her old Hammond organ, the young minister noticed a cut-glass bowl sitting on top of it. The bowl was filled with water, and in the water floated, of all things, a condom!

When she returned with tea and scones, they began to chat.

The pastor tried to stifle his curiosity about the bowl of water and its strange floater, but soon it got the better of him and he could no longer resist

"Miss Beatrice", he said, "I wonder if you would tell me about this?" pointing to the bowl.

"Oh, yes," she replied, "Isn't it wonderful? I was walking through the Park

a few months ago and I found this little package on the ground. The directions said to place it on the organ, keep it wet and that it would prevent the spread of disease.

Do you know I haven't had the flu all winter."

Comic interlude over, you can start arguing again now.... :0)

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

ok i am i think gonna play devils advocate here ...the is a lot of good information and disinformation about the effectiveness of condoms...which i am still digging through and when the fog of disinformation is lifted i will let you know the reality as science knows it at the moment .

But after the last few posts i thought i would post my tuppence worth ...oh no you all shout ...lol

first a test was done buy the FDA in america in 93 where they tested 89 condoms and 39 failed...a duff batch... no ...anyway that aside ...just logic dictates that putting any form of barrier in-between you and an infection has to make a difference ok ...however the European union have put the figure that you are 3 times safer with a condom ...the US govt put s it at 5 times safer ....to quantify it ...Choice of partner can make 5000 times difference..the condom makes little statistical difference compared to your overall choice of partner, be it someone returned from a HIV hotspot...or say a IV drug user ...or and i have to say it because they are a hi risk group people who are gay (before it comes in from somewhere i am not homophobic ..) its just a unfortunate Statistical fact that is sad......

However and this is where i play devils advocate

....all the people saying its there right to "protect there safety" and make choices to maximise safety and block barebackers etc....i have to ask ....Why swing why not reduce the risk to practically nothing ?? .......tin hats everyone LOL

with love from a condom user x

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By *lirty14uMan over a year ago

Milton Keynes

Have the Admins thought of contacting the condom firms about advertising on here?

Surely they would love to tap into a huge market of potetial customers, the site gets revenue and the side panels get filled!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I hate condoms but a must with people you dont really know ,,, but from oral you can get loads of stuff too. We go too local hospitel 4 times a year and get a cheek ups People are lovely there make us feel very welcome, We say we are swingers and thay think nothing of it and say lots of them are too made us smile. I cant get over loads of people Who are swingers dont go get cheek ups ,,, One couple i chat too been swinging 15 years never had one. To me thay are a must BUT I KNOW ITS EACH TO THERE OWN HERE. TO ME ITS PEACE OF MIND. JO XXX sorry about my crap spellings xxx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

i tell my son if he touches a girl his willy will fall off, i think his safe sex will be sorted for life

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

oooh dunno he might end up gay

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By *adchickCouple over a year ago

Cyprus

No problems with Kitty being a young granny there then!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

dont mind if he gay, least no slut will break his heart lol

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By *adchickCouple over a year ago

Cyprus

Spoken like a true mummy...............

I tell my son the same. No girl is worth it, his mum will always be here for him, the only women he can trust are me and his grandmother etc.....

Just like it should be!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I dont know if this has been talked about in this thread as its quite long and i have a very short attention span so havent read the whole lot... Condoms... ok for saving your willy from nasty stuff but what about fingers ? If you place your fingers in ( sorry for this ) a ladys pussy ... then place them in your own ladys private box isn't she going to get what ever ( if anything ) that first lady will have ? So why use them in the first place? Not saying we dont.. just thinking out loud..Plus while i'm on about it.. Cuts on your fingers, if like i said before you place your fingers in a girl , will you not get any nasty's that way ?

Just a thought ..

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By *adchickCouple over a year ago

Cyprus

I knew there was a use for those purple marigolds under my sink........

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

wendysteve that is an excellent point ....your finger work may well be a transmission method ...

My last post really was to point out its all about acceptable risk ...what risk is ok for you may not be ok for another ...so if the condom users have decided to carry on swinging (even though if they stopped it would truly be totally safe )then that is there choice they think the risk is worth it .

Consequently how can anyone ostracise or criticise a group who choose not to use condoms.. if the non condom users apply more safeguards as to who they play with ,then there version of acceptable risk could be lower than people who use condoms and fuck indiscriminately.

Remember your only 3 to 5 times safer with a condom (European and US Statisticts) but choice of who you swing with can make you up to 5000 times safer ...depending who you choose of course ...lol .,..

Given the current facts ...i just dont think bareback users or partial bareback users should have to justify there choices ....nor do i think cus you only swing using condoms should you be complacent ....

I do think that as people point out on here regular testing for swingers either with or without condom s is essential ...and rather that criticising each others choice on acceptable risk ....We should put our combined energies into spreading the word that responsible swingers expect regular testing ....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Also, to add to wendysteve's point (and this may have been covered also), most people who use condoms still don't when performing or recieving oral...

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By *adchickCouple over a year ago

Cyprus

If you are worried about fingers, use the cleanex dry hand bacterial wash (pump bottle) between women.

It takes 5 seconds to put on and rub though and doesn't need washing off!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

....and dont forget your toys, being passed between people during play,.. this is just as important as cocks

S&A

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By *adchickCouple over a year ago

Cyprus

Dildo's and strap on's should be covered with a condom.

Also, don't forget to change condoms when switching between anal and vaginal!

Never dip the same condom in different pots!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

and never brush your teeth just before going to a meet, use a good mouth wash instead.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Always play in different rooms... Glass window (shut) All dirty talk by phone or text.. and... Never take your socks off (Athletes foot)lol..

No seriously some good if a bit clinical advice i'm sure..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

errrr, Notts, A few weeks back i was at chams perving thru the window in the room with the swing, and there was a woman and a group of men.....on of the men had his back to me and his feet were covered and I mean COVERED in nasty verroca's (YUK)

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Pmsl.... see no such thing as safe sex lol...

Ewwwwwwwww

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

notts2for2 theres no safe sex ,, its all high risk maybe some get off on that bit like suck it and see , lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Game....

Thats what I said...

Its all a risk.. but some safer than others..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As we've said in previous threads on this subject,theres no such thing as 100% safe sex but we can make it as safe as we possibly can.Also how come its only barebackers who complain about us in the "condom brigade" not wanting to swing with them and not vise versa? Makes you wonder doesn't it.

Trace & Ric

XXXX

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I have found condoms come off so easy . I get so wet and thay can just slip off ,,,, and them fem condoms thay give out free ,,, ooo my god that would put you off sex for life ... like a bag you stick up. Not sure what is best really .... x Thats why i get lots of cheek ups just to make sure .. I am ok. kisses sex mad jo. xxxxx

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

" I have found condoms come off so easy . I get so wet and thay can just slip off ,,,, and them fem condoms thay give out free ,,, ooo my god that would put you off sex for life ... like a bag you stick up. Not sure what is best really .... x Thats why i get lots of cheek ups just to make sure .. I am ok. kisses sex mad jo. xxxxx"

Bang on jo regular checks ...like your style!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I cant really see how people can say they practice safe sex and dont have regular checks with or without condoms.

Checks are free at local hospital clinic and are quite painless also you get good advice too.

Staff are pleasent,understanding and none jugdemental.

It takes about half an hour and the results take ten days.

We have gone regularly for years and know some of the staff well.

Touch wood in all the time we have been attending we have been clear.

And in that time we have been to a lot of clubs and house parties.

Remember if you dont know if you have something then you dont know if you could pass it on.

Condoms are NOT infalable.

Happy swinging all.

Craig and Les xx

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By *habsMan over a year ago

Fortress of Solitude, Middlesex

Ok, my two pence:

Condoms: some use, some don't - each to their own. Whilst I try not to judge anyone, I however cannot help but mention that I've witnessed on more than one occasion card-carrying, flag flying members of condom brigade go bareback with others NOT their partners (maybe the category 2 "inner sanctum"? who knows) so I'll try not to sound sanctimonious if they are less hypocritical.

An example is a couple that regularly hold parties and publicise the virtues of safe sex: some years ago there was a "scare" and one or two guys (keeping numbers vague) all got something at same party. Now whilst the guys were vilified (as single guys do) it took a while for the penny to drop that they had all played with the same single girl. A lot of the guys were asked not to return to the parties, but till today the girl still attends (I assume she got herself sorted). The ridiculous irony though is that the male half of the couple that organise the party was one of the guys that got something off her, and ofcourse, barebacks with his partner - neither of them had been getting checked at the time.

Moral: if you're gonna be part of any "police" be sure your policy and background are just as clean.

For me, even with use of condoms, and awareness of statistics and "what may happen in heat of moment" and all that, getting checked regularly is probably even more non-negotiable. Touch wood, but if anything untoward ever did happen, I'd get a chance to narrow the window (again, statistics).

PS: Do girls who only meet girls hence use condoms?

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

some good points made there ...especially the last one re girls...

nice one

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

just an update to this thread ..there was a news item on channel 4 news last night .where a eminent professor at a london university said condoms were often ineffectual because of poor technique and slippage as much as anything else .But the good news is they have a long term experiment on at the moment which finishes in the summer .

The test is for a microbicide—a Gel which protects women from Hiv by stopping the virus from bonding .

"This is the first large scale human clinical study (9.5 thousand women) to suggest that a microbicide—a gel, foam or cream intended to prevent the sexual transmission of HIV and other sexually transmitted infections when applied topically inside the vagina or rectum—may prevent male-to-female sexual transmission of HIV infection."

this is good news

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Ok, my two pence:

Moral: if you're gonna be part of any "police" be sure your policy and background are just as clean.

PS: Do girls who only meet girls hence use condoms?"

As a regular user of dildo's and strap-ons,I can say that I always use condoms on them when playing with other girls.Also they are washed in anti-bacterial soap afterwards.

Trace

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"just an update to this thread ..there was a news item on channel 4 news last night .where a eminent professor at a london university said condoms were often ineffectual because of poor technique and slippage as much as anything else .But the good news is they have a long term experiment on at the moment which finishes in the summer .

The test is for a microbicide—a Gel which protects women from Hiv by stopping the virus from bonding .

this is good news "

That would be fantastic,lets just hope its not going to be in the trial stages for the next 10-15 years,as these type of things so often are.

Trace & Ric

XXXX

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

i think its a serious attempt as the Americans have conducted the first trial and our govt have just given a 90 million grant to take it to next stage ..

fingers crossed

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By *ucknfucknwCouple over a year ago

Blackpool

OOOOOOO how annoying we have been chatting to a cpl about meeting and we told then very early on in the converation that safe sex for us is a must ..... down the line the goal posts changed after saying how much they want to meet us and fXXk us loads that they now say they will only meet us if we have sex bareback with them...................what timewasting knobs they have nothing on there profile that states thats what they do.............His stance on it is because his dick is too big the condoms fall off lolololol and because he has the snip i would be safe from getting preggers lololol doesnt stop me catching sti's

Perhaps it would be a good idea if Fab made an option on profiles for Safe Sex Only & Bareback sex

We know which one we would be clicking on!!! SAFE SEX... ALWAYS... WE VALUE OUR LIVES... & have respect for others.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

well i think its sooooo wrong ie bareback,its just not safe at all and more so in the swinging lifestyle.

its putting you at risk for one,and its the person you sleep with next whos going to suffer if they get an std or worse gggrrrrrr

i always always practice safe sex whoever i meet and carry two in my wallet just in case,and when ive had girlfriends in the past i still wear one into the relationship until i know shes a good girl then its ok not 2

ive never had an std of anykind in the 37yrs ive been living and would be wounded if i ever got one so condoms always for my safety and the safety of others im having sex with.

i would never forgive myself if i ever caught anything and passed that on just by being stupid and ignorant and not wearing anything.

YES its a bit passion killing sometimes having to stop to put one on etc,but is that any reason to be putting other people at risk erm NO i dont think so!!

no condom no sex simple as and some people need to take a step back look at what their doing and realize its not just about them and their enjoyment its putting people in danger.

im sure clymedia can make a woman infertile if thats true why not wear a condom to make sure were not passing anything on and wrecking lives and relationships its just SAD!!!!!

i know you can catch stds from oral etc but is it not worth trying to prevent it as much as you can by being safe

xxpeanutxx

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

This thread is really long now so i do not know if you have read it all the way through .

I totally echo your sentiments ...however i have to say wearing a condom does not make the problem go away, they are not a 100% solution far from it ...but they do help by making you 3 to 5 times safer than not wearing..

MR X

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This thread is really long now so i do not know if you have read it all the way through .

MR X"

Picking up on what you said and going off thread here.Don't you think that each thread page should be limited to 20 posts,so that the thread would take the form of several pages instead of looking like the end credits of Starwars?

That way it would make it so much easier to navigate when looking for and keeping track of individual comments.

Trace & Ric

XXXX

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By *orkshiremonkey1Man over a year ago

Worksop

(Before anyone says it I'm not here to start a bloody row)

I have read with much interest this thread and it seems that the debate will continue. Interesting facts and stats that have given me cause to think and some that have made me say "What !!!!".

There is one way to maintain your own good sexual health presuming that you fit this "label"..... Don't have sex!!! Stupid and simple.... but that goes against what people who enjoy this social scene want out of the experience.

If we continue to "dabble" then surely the only way to stay safe is to use some form, or numerous forms, of protection.

For example, HIV is an extremely dangerous but very fragile, virus..... It needs a nice warm and cosy place to fester and do it's nasty job..... A perfect place being the human body (at least for now). This is just relating to OWO - The chances of oral transmission are small unless the virus can breach the skin barrier (good advice re not brushing teeth etc) so mouth ulcers/bitten cheeks/recent dental work etc are ideal ingress points...

As for those swingers (either gender) who swallow bodily fluid ejaculate, the stomach destroys almost anything (pH of 2 will eat metal easily). Point here is if there are no ingress sites, the chance you will catch HIV are minimal.

As for other STI's, well again, cover up to stay safe..... after all who would sensibly go out in the rain without a coat, esp in this country? LOL

Loving the chance to hear/see others views etc..... Thanks

Now where's the clingfilm gone ?....

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

quote cus button wouldnt work

That way it would make it so much easier to navigate when looking for and keeping track of individual comments.

Trace & Ric

----------------------------------

yeah it needs something doesn't it or a go to last post button ...

@northernmonkey yeah its been a good thread and i for one have learnt a lot ...loads of number crunching and good info come on here ....lots of surprises while trying to find the facts too....not too sure how long hiv can live outside of a war environment ...as police emergency services are always tested after being pricked by a discarded needle and dont get an all clear for 6 months but it may be hepatitis ...i am gonna find that out

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By *yclop OP Man over a year ago

belfast

You lot should keep up-to-date with the scientific literature on HIV. "HIV on the Back Foot at Last": New Scientist 21st February 2009. The cocktails of anti-viral drugs are so effective that, while they are no cure, they can completely eliminate virus secretion, meaning the disease will not be passed on. The World Health Organization is airily talking (very airily) about it being possible to eliminate AIDS in Africa in thirty years if they can get $15BN and cooperation from all the governments (neither of which they will get). Keep testing everyone, keep medicating everyone infected, the disease will not be passed on and will eventually disappear. In practice, in this country, if someone has been diagnosed, there is no longer any good reason why they should pass it on.

But don't get too complacent, there are still big dangers out there for us barebackers to bravely and defiantly wave our willies at. "The Clap is back": New Scientist 28th February 2009. The gonnococcus is becoming resistant to antibiotics. Back to medieval medicine and being "plunged with the red hot wire" as we are held down by six strong medical assistants.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

yawwwwwwwwwwn, my thoughts will be with u when ur cock falls off

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We met on the swinging scene 10 months ago and we were togeter 2 months before we had unprotected sex.... but we both got tested first... I hear from couples that they never been tested but they know they ain't got anything .... b**l s**t you don't know unless you been tested and even if they were tested the day before we met them we still would never play unsafe with anyone except ourselves ... condom brigade all the way for us!!!!!!!!!!!

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By *yclop OP Man over a year ago

belfast

Noticed the complaints about how long this thread has become.

I think it's great.

It took quite a long time to get past the vitiolic rants and have some seriously meaningful discussion, which was why I started it in the first place.

Keep it up!

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By *ighnboxCouple over a year ago

Norwich

OK then you are single you go out clubing.pub etc meet a nice girl/boy take back back have sex with them and are safe useing a condom you get on great and carry on seeing them at some point tho you will stop useing that condom .......Just becouse you been seeing that person 6 month dont mean there safe so as soon as you stop useing that condom you are puting your self at risk .....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Best thing to do then if you intend a one on one relationship, is to both get checked out and make sure your safe before going bareback.Then use condoms for meets,sorted.

Trace & Ric

XXXX

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/article.aspx?cp-documentid=14659828

ITN

Saturday, 28 February 2009

Man arrested after women's HIV claim

An man who is HIV positive has been arrested after a series of women complained he had unprotected sex with them, without mentioning that he had the virus, it has emerged.

The 39-year-old, reported to be an ex-serviceman, is said to have had unsafe intercourse with 'a number' of women in the East Devon area, police said.

The man, from Bournemouth, was arrested on Friday and questioned over his alleged failure to let his lovers know about his HIV status. He was released on police bail until May 11.

Devon and Cornwall police have not revealed how many women have made statements, nor their current states of health.

A force spokesman said: "Devon and Cornwall Police can confirm a number of women have come forward regarding allegations of their having had unprotected sex with a man who they now believe to be HIV positive. They allege he failed to disclose this to them."

Infecting a partner with HIV - the virus that causes Aids - can lead to a charge of recklessly or intentionally causing grievous bodily harm.

In May 2004, African asylum seeker Feston Konzani, 28, was jailed for 10 years at Teeside Crown Court after knowingly infecting three women with HIV.

Is it still worth putting another life at risk ????

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

people have been infected even with condoms they are not 100% safe...re _yclops last post concerning transferal clearly sometimes the retrovirus drugs are not always effective in stopping transfer of the virus ,this scum should definitely have warned them he had the virus "if he knew he had it",the law requires it ..

mr x

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By *yclop OP Man over a year ago

belfast

The thing that makes swinging, swopping, polyamory, cuckolding and all the other good thinks we get up to different from cheating, is honesty.

We all need to be honest with our partner(s) about what we are doing, with whom we are doing it, and the status of our sexual health, we would warn a partner that we might give them a cold before we kissed, wouldn't we?

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By *teve_SoleilCouple over a year ago

Malaysia

We would love to try barebacking but would only do it with someone who is verified clean by a recent and regular medical checkup..However, we would never do barebacking with just some stranger we just met in a club...so depends on the situation...but we'll take extra precautions to make sure we are safe...

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

"We would love to try barebacking but would only do it with someone who is verified clean by a recent and regular medical checkup..However, we would never do barebacking with just some stranger we just met in a club...so depends on the situation...but we'll take extra precautions to make sure we are safe..."

the problem is with hiv it can take 3 months to show on a test, sometimes longer ...its a tough one ...still lets hope its all over soon eh ,...then we can start worrying about the non lethal stuff lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

ooooooooerrrrrrrrr bareback in the swing scene is like playing russian roulette with your life.......know condoms are,nt the greatest of things ....but hey life&health before fun ....we thinks

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Boo!

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By *teve_SoleilCouple over a year ago

Malaysia

Is it possible to have a condom that just covers the tip of the penis?...then wouldn't have to do a risky bareback...:D

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"We would love to try barebacking but would only do it with someone who is verified clean by a recent and regular medical checkup.."

...but the problem with that is still that the results are only correct up until that point in time that the test was taken...

then next time they had sex they could have caught something and you'd never know......

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

"We would love to try barebacking but would only do it with someone who is verified clean by a recent and regular medical checkup..

...but the problem with that is still that the results are only correct up until that point in time that the test was taken...

then next time they had sex they could have caught something and you'd never know......"

dead right and its a minimum 3 months for an all clear on Hiv

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"We would love to try barebacking but would only do it with someone who is verified clean by a recent and regular medical checkup..

...but the problem with that is still that the results are only correct up until that point in time that the test was taken...

then next time they had sex they could have caught something and you'd never know......"

Which is why Trace would never go bareback when she did Adult films. However,even though she'd only do condom shoots,she still had to be certificated.To us though,certificates in the porn world aren't worth a fart but they're a legal requirement.

XXXX

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

in short.........................bloody lunacy and irresponsible!!!!!!!!!...but thats just my opinion.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I heard a little story..a single guy did met a couple his missus played while the hubby watched, they used protection. 2nd meet hubby went downstairs they did bareback.

Now what does that tell ya?

But do agree with each to their own you take that risk suffer the consequences

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Confucius says "Man put rubber on willy, or put willy back in pants."

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By *habsMan over a year ago

Fortress of Solitude, Middlesex

"I heard a little story..a single guy did met a couple his missus played while the hubby watched, they used protection. 2nd meet hubby went downstairs they did bareback.

Now what does that tell ya?

But do agree with each to their own you take that risk suffer the consequences"

That tells me people will do whatever they want with who they want whenever they want - irrespective of what they say or want the rest of us to believe.

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By *teve_SoleilCouple over a year ago

Malaysia

Barebacking is another fetish like any other...even swinging by itself carries a risk and may not be every1 cup of tea...we believe that people in this society are respectable, honest and responsible adult. Thus, if they wanna swing they should respect discretion, if they wanna bareback, they should respect limitations and rules that comes with it and will consider other people's health. If the wife went barebacking without telling/ or further agreement from hubby or vice versa then it would be breach of trust...which we believe swingers really hold on strong to...:D

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

"Confucius says "Man put rubber on willy, or put willy back in pants.""

i dont think he did ...but if he did he would also have said ...dont rely on it cus its not a 100 percent fix and if totally safe is what you want then leave it in the pants .

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By *teve_SoleilCouple over a year ago

Malaysia

Can never be really 100% safe...can't we???....thus if we worry about the risk...we should take all possibility to reduce the risk...:D...being adventurous and having a lil bit of risk is fun...but we believe that it should if possible...reduce it to ensure safety of every1 involved..:D

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Can never be really 100% safe...can't we???....thus if we worry about the risk...we should take all possibility to reduce the risk...:D...being adventurous and having a lil bit of risk is fun...but we believe that it should if possible...reduce it to ensure safety of every1 involved..:D "

As you say we can't be 100% safe but we can be as safe as possible.

XXXX

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We recently met with a couple after messaging and plenty of phone chat to make sure everyone was clear about each others expectations. Safe sex was high on the agenda for both couples (us and them) or so we thought!

When we finally met and was well into the playing time I find the female desperately trying to have unprotected sex with my husband ! She had him pinned to the chair, trying to sit on him saying 'it'll be ok I've been done, I can't get pregnant!!!!!??

Apparently she did not like condoms. They spoiled the fun for her!! Why could they have not been honest from the start because we would not have wasted our time meeting with them!!

It is quite clear on our profile that we insist on safe sex with no exceptions to that rule!!!

Then to add insult to injury her husband asked me to calm down a little because I WAS UPSETTING HER !!!

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By *ichNjudyCouple over a year ago

stoke on trent

dishonesty is always a bad thing, but this wors both ways. We've met plenty of couple who tick 'safe sex' but are very easy going about it, and some who state "we insisit on safe sex" but in fact don't.

The problem, for our twopence worth is that while some people are prepared to hold a stigma against anyone happy to take a little extra risk then this situation will not change.

xxx

Ju & rich

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

hmm each to their own in my opinion , personally i think whatever everyone is happy with , condoms or no condoms either way wether i wear one or not i always get myself checked out every couple of months , but to group together ppl because of their sexuall preferences such as "condom brigade" isnt good , some ppl are only happy with safe sex and you have to respect that , have to respect their boundries .

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I know that not everyone is entirely honest on there profile and that different people are looking for different things but I was so shocked that her husbands only concern was that I was upsetting her ! Did he not think that maybe they had upset me by what they had done ? They had quite obviously set out to deceive us just to get a meet !

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By *lirty14uMan over a year ago

Milton Keynes

BBC News 14/04/09

"A singer from the German girl band No Angels has been arrested on suspicion of infecting a partner with HIV, a prosecutor's office has said.

Nadja Benaissa is suspected of having unprotected sex with three men without informing them she was HIV-positive, German media reported."

See? Shit does happen....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yes ! Shit happens !

We accept there are people out there that enjoy bareback ! That is their choice ! NOT OURS ! I just find it difficult to understand why people can't accept that our way is WITH CONDOMS ! If you don't like that then stay away from us ! Don't deceive us !

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By *teve_SoleilCouple over a year ago

Malaysia

I think you should report them...just out of curiosity...how did your hubby reacted?...These kind off people are making it looks bad for us..:D..people who want to do bareback but are honest..:D...but we are type 2 barebackers anyway...:D...so safe sex until proven safe to bare..:D

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

being fairly new to this what on earth is a type 2 bareback ? xx

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By *ichNjudyCouple over a year ago

stoke on trent

Just read the first post on the thread

xxx

j&r

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We are definatly part of the condom brigade.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We may have missed it, as this is a very long thread, but nobody seems to have mentioned HEPATITIS B. Hep B is a virus, literally thousands of times (do go check where you please if you care to) more infectious than HIV, but transmitted in exactly the same ways.

Hep B is incurable and ultimately fatal. There is no cure. There is a vaccine, but one either has to be a healthcare professional to get it on the NHS or well off to get it privately, and it requires boosters.

There is also Hep A and Hep C - not as nasty as Hep B, but likewise incurable, and not exactly pleasant to put it mildly (left untreated for too long, major vital organs - e.g. the liver - may fail). Resistance to infection can be somewhat increased in the short-term (max ca. 6 weeks) by a shot of gamma globulin, as is done at e.g. travel clinics before venturing into parts of the 3rd world with poor sanitation.

Like other "superbugs", ultimately fatal strains of older infections (like syphyllis, for one), resistant to all known antibiotics, now exist. Untreatable Syphillis typically travels up the spine and into the brain, and renders you increasingly insane and immobile as well as in great pain before killing you by the way.

What people forget is that pathogenic viruses, bacteria and fungi are lifeforms - they adapt and evolve - and it's a fight to the death every time - you or the infection, whatever it is.

There is no such thing as safe sex. There is higher risk sex and lower risk sex. Promiscuity necessarily increases the risk of contracting something, taking protective measures goes some way to compensating for that increase.

Do what you feel you need to do to give you enough peace of mind to reduce your own risk to a level acceptable to you. It's not rocket science, as they say.

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By *iggles and BeardyCouple over a year ago

Bristol

"We may have missed it, as this is a very long thread, but nobody seems to have mentioned HEPATITIS B. Hep B is a virus, literally thousands of times (do go check where you please if you care to) more infectious than HIV, but transmitted in exactly the same ways.

What people forget is that pathogenic viruses, bacteria and fungi are lifeforms - they adapt and evolve - and it's a fight to the death every time - you or the infection, whatever it is.

Do what you feel you need to do to give you enough peace of mind to reduce your own risk to a level acceptable to you. It's not rocket science, as they say."

Hep B vaccine injection is avalible free to ANYONE at any sexual helth clinic in the Uk (just wanted to clear that up)

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

@ WigglesHappy re: free Hep B vaccine:

Good to hear - things would appear to have changed since effectively being told to "bugger off" by a certain NHS GUM nurse (who explicitly cited "waste of our budget" as grounds, by the way.)

@ Cyclops re: categories (seeing as you specifically asked for feedback on this)

Will never understand the widespread obsession you seem to share with trying to "pigeonhole" people in the first place - surely it's a cline rather than absolutes, whether you're talking about safe-unsafe, bisexual-straight, etc.

@ Cyclops re: motivation (seeing as you specifically asked for feedback on this)

Why do some people eat Japanese puffer fish knowing if they get just a tiny bit of the wrong part they will in all probability die a very horrible death?

Not an "adventure" that appeals any more than a bareback gang-bang with complete strangers, personally speaking, but people get their kicks in different ways, and nobody's forcing anyone into the restaurant, so to speak.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If you want to bareback then DO

If you dont want to then DONT

As long as everyone in the situation is happy then get on with it you cannot force anyone to do what they dont want to do otherwise its called rape

If you insist on using condoms and the other person dosent want to use them then you just DONT HAVE SEX

Its not rocket science is it

Craig x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Its got to be said though...

There is absolutely nothing worse than looking down after some good hard sex.. seeing your limp cock with that soggy condom hanging off it...

Especially when you weren't wearing one when you went in pmsl....

Lighten up folk lol..

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By *ichNjudyCouple over a year ago

stoke on trent

Hep B is incurable and ultimately fatal. There is no cure. There is a vaccine, but one either has to be a healthcare professional to get it on the NHS or well off to get it privately"

We have to confirm what wiggles says here - that is absolutely total nonsense!! - Judy is vaccinated against Hep B and Rich against Hep A B & C - and all on the NHS

As we recall the only one we ever had to pay for was Yellow Fever

j&r

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Its got to be said though...

There is absolutely nothing worse than looking down after some good hard sex.. seeing your limp cock with that soggy condom hanging off it...

Especially when you weren't wearing one when you went in pmsl....

Lighten up folk lol.."

PMSFL...Notts I lurvvvvvvvvvvvve you xxx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Its got to be said though...

There is absolutely nothing worse than looking down after some good hard sex.. seeing your limp cock with that soggy condom hanging off it...

Especially when you weren't wearing one when you went in pmsl....

Lighten up folk lol.."

LOL, brilliant!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Glad you enjoyed folks lol...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

proud 2 say were members of the condom brigade if u wana call it that. gawd dont even trust the pill so wen its just ash and i the condom goes on just b4 the swimmers take flight

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Hep B is incurable and ultimately fatal. There is no cure. There is a vaccine, but one either has to be a healthcare professional to get it on the NHS or well off to get it privately

We have to confirm what wiggles says here - that is absolutely total nonsense!! - Judy is vaccinated against Hep B and Rich against Hep A B & C - and all on the NHS

As we recall the only one we ever had to pay for was Yellow Fever

j&r"

According to the NHS website, not all practices or hospitals will offer free HEP B vaccines unless its for occupational reasons.

"" Your GP shouldn't charge you for a hepatitis B vaccine if you require it for occupational reasons. However, GPs don't have to offer the vaccine. The availability of free hepatitis B vaccination is very limited and can therefore vary from one practice to another. You may need to get the vaccination done privately, for example, through your local travel health clinic. Many employers will offer to pay for the vaccination for you, if you require it, as it is part of their legal obligation to protect your health and safety at work. ""

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