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Should all Public Services Work Weekends?
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Isn't it odd when so much of the private sector is available seven days a week that the public sector is stuck in the 1950s ?
Shouldn't GP surgeries, local councils, the Civil Service, etc, etc all be available every day rather than bunking off at 3pm on Friday? |
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"40% extra wages bill, Rachel would fill her pants. "
Hospital staff don't get paid extra for the weekend.
All Staff generly do a 40hour week so unless there is a benefit to the public there is no point.
GP's are being looked at. |
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They could easily work a rotating shirt pattern.
It's amazing how many local authorities are skint until it comes to employing people to be traffic wardens, then they always find the money to fuck people.
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"They could easily work a rotating shirt pattern.
It's amazing how many local authorities are skint until it comes to employing people to be traffic wardens, then they always find the money to fuck people.
"
Exactly, just needs some flexibility and imagination. I know people who like working weekends and having time off in week. |
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"I hope nobody in the public sector is reading this!!!!
The post title alone is enough to start a strike, a 38% pay rise that is back dated to 2001 and a demand for a 3 day working week.
"
Two of those working from the golf course, sorry 'home'.  |
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"Benefits:
Improve productivity
Reduce waiting lists
Create new jobs
What's not to like ?
Indeed. So why didn't the previous government do it?
They should have. The new Govt still can."
Doesn't seem likely. I think the problem is viability. There just aren't enough people ready to do it. They can't, legally, be compelled to, so you would always have a shortfall.
Mind you, if you told the ones who were able to, that they could do their weekend shift working from home, you might get more uptake. 🙂 |
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By *otMe66Man 4 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"Benefits:
Improve productivity
Reduce waiting lists
Create new jobs
What's not to like ?
Indeed. So why didn't the previous government do it?
They should have. The new Govt still can.
Doesn't seem likely. I think the problem is viability. There just aren't enough people ready to do it. They can't, legally, be compelled to, so you would always have a shortfall.
Mind you, if you told the ones who were able to, that they could do their weekend shift working from home, you might get more uptake. 🙂"
Changing the working week to cover a weekend is not a large change that it would significantly alter the role enough for it to be challenged under employment laws, or offer redundancy as the role still exists.
A change in contract wording where necessary to remove reference to Mon - Fri as the working week, if it exists, to 37.5 hours in any 7 days would be enough with proper consultation.
At some point the public services that are not active 7 days a week, need to modernise their working behaviours, if that means some leave so be it. New blood new start.
|
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"Benefits:
Improve productivity
Reduce waiting lists
Create new jobs
What's not to like ?
Indeed. So why didn't the previous government do it?
They should have. The new Govt still can.
Doesn't seem likely. I think the problem is viability. There just aren't enough people ready to do it. They can't, legally, be compelled to, so you would always have a shortfall.
Mind you, if you told the ones who were able to, that they could do their weekend shift working from home, you might get more uptake. 🙂
Changing the working week to cover a weekend is not a large change that it would significantly alter the role enough for it to be challenged under employment laws, or offer redundancy as the role still exists.
A change in contract wording where necessary to remove reference to Mon - Fri as the working week, if it exists, to 37.5 hours in any 7 days would be enough with proper consultation.
At some point the public services that are not active 7 days a week, need to modernise their working behaviours, if that means some leave so be it. New blood new start.
"
As I already said. If it were that easy, the previous government would have done it. |
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By *otMe66Man 4 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"Benefits:
Improve productivity
Reduce waiting lists
Create new jobs
What's not to like ?
Indeed. So why didn't the previous government do it?
They should have. The new Govt still can.
Doesn't seem likely. I think the problem is viability. There just aren't enough people ready to do it. They can't, legally, be compelled to, so you would always have a shortfall.
Mind you, if you told the ones who were able to, that they could do their weekend shift working from home, you might get more uptake. 🙂
Changing the working week to cover a weekend is not a large change that it would significantly alter the role enough for it to be challenged under employment laws, or offer redundancy as the role still exists.
A change in contract wording where necessary to remove reference to Mon - Fri as the working week, if it exists, to 37.5 hours in any 7 days would be enough with proper consultation.
At some point the public services that are not active 7 days a week, need to modernise their working behaviours, if that means some leave so be it. New blood new start.
As I already said. If it were that easy, the previous government would have done it."
It literally is that easy to implement, the appetite to do it is not there because of the disruption it would bring. Labour will not lock horns with the unions and the tories will, why do you think there was no agreed deal for junior doctors, the tories wanted a unsociable hours extended in the contracts in return for 11% increase.
Labour walked to the table and gave them everything they wanted with no bilateral agreement, just gave our money away with no improvement. |
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"Benefits:
Improve productivity
Reduce waiting lists
Create new jobs
What's not to like ?
Indeed. So why didn't the previous government do it?
They should have. The new Govt still can.
Doesn't seem likely. I think the problem is viability. There just aren't enough people ready to do it. They can't, legally, be compelled to, so you would always have a shortfall.
Mind you, if you told the ones who were able to, that they could do their weekend shift working from home, you might get more uptake. 🙂
Changing the working week to cover a weekend is not a large change that it would significantly alter the role enough for it to be challenged under employment laws, or offer redundancy as the role still exists.
A change in contract wording where necessary to remove reference to Mon - Fri as the working week, if it exists, to 37.5 hours in any 7 days would be enough with proper consultation.
At some point the public services that are not active 7 days a week, need to modernise their working behaviours, if that means some leave so be it. New blood new start.
As I already said. If it were that easy, the previous government would have done it.
It literally is that easy to implement, the appetite to do it is not there because of the disruption it would bring. Labour will not lock horns with the unions and the tories will, why do you think there was no agreed deal for junior doctors, the tories wanted a unsociable hours extended in the contracts in return for 11% increase.
Labour walked to the table and gave them everything they wanted with no bilateral agreement, just gave our money away with no improvement."
It literally isn't - and you just explained why. |
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By *otMe66Man 4 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"Benefits:
Improve productivity
Reduce waiting lists
Create new jobs
What's not to like ?
Indeed. So why didn't the previous government do it?
They should have. The new Govt still can.
Doesn't seem likely. I think the problem is viability. There just aren't enough people ready to do it. They can't, legally, be compelled to, so you would always have a shortfall.
Mind you, if you told the ones who were able to, that they could do their weekend shift working from home, you might get more uptake. 🙂
Changing the working week to cover a weekend is not a large change that it would significantly alter the role enough for it to be challenged under employment laws, or offer redundancy as the role still exists.
A change in contract wording where necessary to remove reference to Mon - Fri as the working week, if it exists, to 37.5 hours in any 7 days would be enough with proper consultation.
At some point the public services that are not active 7 days a week, need to modernise their working behaviours, if that means some leave so be it. New blood new start.
As I already said. If it were that easy, the previous government would have done it.
It literally is that easy to implement, the appetite to do it is not there because of the disruption it would bring. Labour will not lock horns with the unions and the tories will, why do you think there was no agreed deal for junior doctors, the tories wanted a unsociable hours extended in the contracts in return for 11% increase.
Labour walked to the table and gave them everything they wanted with no bilateral agreement, just gave our money away with no improvement.
It literally isn't - and you just explained why."
The action itself is simple, the process of changing working patterns is straightforward. Contracts can be adjusted, working hours redefined, and consultation undertaken. That’s not the issue.
The real obstacle is the appetite to implement change, which is where governments falter. The unions are resistant to modernisation, and under this government, their influence is growing, making future reforms even harder. |
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"Benefits:
Improve productivity
Reduce waiting lists
Create new jobs
What's not to like ?
Indeed. So why didn't the previous government do it?
They should have. The new Govt still can.
Doesn't seem likely. I think the problem is viability. There just aren't enough people ready to do it. They can't, legally, be compelled to, so you would always have a shortfall.
Mind you, if you told the ones who were able to, that they could do their weekend shift working from home, you might get more uptake. 🙂
Changing the working week to cover a weekend is not a large change that it would significantly alter the role enough for it to be challenged under employment laws, or offer redundancy as the role still exists.
A change in contract wording where necessary to remove reference to Mon - Fri as the working week, if it exists, to 37.5 hours in any 7 days would be enough with proper consultation.
At some point the public services that are not active 7 days a week, need to modernise their working behaviours, if that means some leave so be it. New blood new start.
As I already said. If it were that easy, the previous government would have done it.
It literally is that easy to implement, the appetite to do it is not there because of the disruption it would bring. Labour will not lock horns with the unions and the tories will, why do you think there was no agreed deal for junior doctors, the tories wanted a unsociable hours extended in the contracts in return for 11% increase.
Labour walked to the table and gave them everything they wanted with no bilateral agreement, just gave our money away with no improvement.
It literally isn't - and you just explained why.
The action itself is simple, the process of changing working patterns is straightforward. Contracts can be adjusted, working hours redefined, and consultation undertaken. That’s not the issue.
The real obstacle is the appetite to implement change, which is where governments falter. The unions are resistant to modernisation, and under this government, their influence is growing, making future reforms even harder."
More to the point what services would realy get user at weekends. There is no point having people working if there is no demand.
I get more GP's working but what othere service do people want at a weekend.
|
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"Benefits:
Improve productivity
Reduce waiting lists
Create new jobs
What's not to like ?
Indeed. So why didn't the previous government do it?
They should have. The new Govt still can.
Doesn't seem likely. I think the problem is viability. There just aren't enough people ready to do it. They can't, legally, be compelled to, so you would always have a shortfall.
Mind you, if you told the ones who were able to, that they could do their weekend shift working from home, you might get more uptake. 🙂
Changing the working week to cover a weekend is not a large change that it would significantly alter the role enough for it to be challenged under employment laws, or offer redundancy as the role still exists.
A change in contract wording where necessary to remove reference to Mon - Fri as the working week, if it exists, to 37.5 hours in any 7 days would be enough with proper consultation.
At some point the public services that are not active 7 days a week, need to modernise their working behaviours, if that means some leave so be it. New blood new start.
As I already said. If it were that easy, the previous government would have done it.
It literally is that easy to implement, the appetite to do it is not there because of the disruption it would bring. Labour will not lock horns with the unions and the tories will, why do you think there was no agreed deal for junior doctors, the tories wanted a unsociable hours extended in the contracts in return for 11% increase.
Labour walked to the table and gave them everything they wanted with no bilateral agreement, just gave our money away with no improvement.
It literally isn't - and you just explained why.
The action itself is simple, the process of changing working patterns is straightforward. Contracts can be adjusted, working hours redefined, and consultation undertaken. That’s not the issue.
The real obstacle is the appetite to implement change, which is where governments falter. The unions are resistant to modernisation, and under this government, their influence is growing, making future reforms even harder.
More to the point what services would realy get user at weekends. There is no point having people working if there is no demand.
I get more GP's working but what othere service do people want at a weekend.
"
How many working people have the time to phone DVLA, HMRC etc during the week ? Those services should be available evenings and weekends. |
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"
More to the point what services would realy get used at weekends. There is no point having people working if there is no demand.
I get more GP's working but what other services do people want at a weekend.
"
great question  |
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Some departments and services would benefit from seven day week
Currently six months to get probate - all those empty homes executors can’t yet sell
Land registry has caught up abit but still 12 month+ backlog on registrations
Home office has 216,000 asylum application a substantial proportion not looked at |
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The wait time for probate has doubled since April 2022
The number of families waiting over a year for a grant of probate has more than doubled in the last three years
The delays are causing significant stress for grieving families
A lack of staff, especially senior staff, has contributed to the backlog |
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"Some departments and services would benefit from seven day week
Currently six months to get probate - all those empty homes executors can’t yet sell
Land registry has caught up abit but still 12 month+ backlog on registrations
Home office has 216,000 asylum application a substantial proportion not looked at "
Appalling figures.  |
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"Some departments and services would benefit from seven day week
Currently six months to get probate - all those empty homes executors can’t yet sell
Land registry has caught up abit but still 12 month+ backlog on registrations
Home office has 216,000 asylum application a substantial proportion not looked at "
But you would not catch up if its the same number doing the same job but open the weekend.
If you want to cath up with back log you need more staff, that's an increase in staffing cost. As for probate 6 months is not that much of a problem as everything else takes so long. Try dealing with envelopment companies, Prudential took 30 months, as are now M&G 
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"
I get more GP's working but what othere service do people want at a weekend.
Literally any service that’s public-facing. "
Like?
The other problem with public facing is you need security in these days. And in Hasting 3 is probably the minimum staffing you would need so again would need more staff to cover, but yes these services should be open longer till say 7pm and at least saterday morning. |
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"Benefits:
Improve productivity
Reduce waiting lists
Create new jobs
What's not to like ?
Indeed. So why didn't the previous government do it?
They should have. The new Govt still can.
Doesn't seem likely. I think the problem is viability. There just aren't enough people ready to do it. They can't, legally, be compelled to, so you would always have a shortfall.
Mind you, if you told the ones who were able to, that they could do their weekend shift working from home, you might get more uptake. 🙂
Changing the working week to cover a weekend is not a large change that it would significantly alter the role enough for it to be challenged under employment laws, or offer redundancy as the role still exists.
A change in contract wording where necessary to remove reference to Mon - Fri as the working week, if it exists, to 37.5 hours in any 7 days would be enough with proper consultation.
At some point the public services that are not active 7 days a week, need to modernise their working behaviours, if that means some leave so be it. New blood new start.
As I already said. If it were that easy, the previous government would have done it.
It literally is that easy to implement, the appetite to do it is not there because of the disruption it would bring. Labour will not lock horns with the unions and the tories will, why do you think there was no agreed deal for junior doctors, the tories wanted a unsociable hours extended in the contracts in return for 11% increase.
Labour walked to the table and gave them everything they wanted with no bilateral agreement, just gave our money away with no improvement.
It literally isn't - and you just explained why.
The action itself is simple, the process of changing working patterns is straightforward. Contracts can be adjusted, working hours redefined, and consultation undertaken. That’s not the issue.
The real obstacle is the appetite to implement change, which is where governments falter. The unions are resistant to modernisation, and under this government, their influence is growing, making future reforms even harder.
More to the point what services would realy get user at weekends. There is no point having people working if there is no demand.
I get more GP's working but what othere service do people want at a weekend.
How many working people have the time to phone DVLA, HMRC etc during the week ? Those services should be available evenings and weekends."
DVLA is open till 7pm and Saturday till 2pm |
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"Benefits:
Improve productivity
Reduce waiting lists
Create new jobs
What's not to like ?
Indeed. So why didn't the previous government do it?
They should have. The new Govt still can.
Doesn't seem likely. I think the problem is viability. There just aren't enough people ready to do it. They can't, legally, be compelled to, so you would always have a shortfall.
Mind you, if you told the ones who were able to, that they could do their weekend shift working from home, you might get more uptake. 🙂
Changing the working week to cover a weekend is not a large change that it would significantly alter the role enough for it to be challenged under employment laws, or offer redundancy as the role still exists.
A change in contract wording where necessary to remove reference to Mon - Fri as the working week, if it exists, to 37.5 hours in any 7 days would be enough with proper consultation.
At some point the public services that are not active 7 days a week, need to modernise their working behaviours, if that means some leave so be it. New blood new start.
As I already said. If it were that easy, the previous government would have done it.
It literally is that easy to implement, the appetite to do it is not there because of the disruption it would bring. Labour will not lock horns with the unions and the tories will, why do you think there was no agreed deal for junior doctors, the tories wanted a unsociable hours extended in the contracts in return for 11% increase.
Labour walked to the table and gave them everything they wanted with no bilateral agreement, just gave our money away with no improvement.
It literally isn't - and you just explained why.
The action itself is simple, the process of changing working patterns is straightforward. Contracts can be adjusted, working hours redefined, and consultation undertaken. That’s not the issue.
The real obstacle is the appetite to implement change, which is where governments falter. The unions are resistant to modernisation, and under this government, their influence is growing, making future reforms even harder.
More to the point what services would realy get user at weekends. There is no point having people working if there is no demand.
I get more GP's working but what othere service do people want at a weekend.
How many working people have the time to phone DVLA, HMRC etc during the week ? Those services should be available evenings and weekends.
DVLA is open till 7pm and Saturday till 2pm "
Great, shows it can be done |
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"
I get more GP's working but what othere service do people want at a weekend.
Literally any service that’s public-facing.
Exactly "
So what public facing services would you need at the weekend.
To be honest I don't really have much interaction with the Council. |
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By *coptoCouple 4 weeks ago
Côte d'Azur & Great Yarmouth |
"gold plated public sector pensions"
What do you mean by that? Any pension additional to basic State Pension has been contributed to by deductions from their salary on the way: the more they've paid in, the higher the additional pension*
Surely just like anybody with a private pension scheme...
* my missus worked for a few years as a German language teaching assistant. Money was taken from her salary and at retirement age she'll be entitled to a couple of hundred quid a year pension (which then becomes taxable of course, 'cos HMRC didn't tax her full salary at the time). But one of our mates is CONVINCED that every teacher, civil servant etc. gets a wonderful bonus pension |
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"
I get more GP's working but what othere service do people want at a weekend.
Literally any service that’s public-facing.
Exactly
So what public facing services would you need at the weekend.
To be honest I don't really have much interaction with the Council. "
But many do or need to. |
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""gold plated public sector pensions"
What do you mean by that? Any pension additional to basic State Pension has been contributed to by deductions from their salary on the way: the more they've paid in, the higher the additional pension*
Surely just like anybody with a private pension scheme...
* my missus worked for a few years as a German language teaching assistant. Money was taken from her salary and at retirement age she'll be entitled to a couple of hundred quid a year pension (which then becomes taxable of course, 'cos HMRC didn't tax her full salary at the time). But one of our mates is CONVINCED that every teacher, civil servant etc. gets a wonderful bonus pension"
Not any more to be far I don't know how meny would still be on the old super anuation. But it was very generous. |
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"
I get more GP's working but what othere service do people want at a weekend.
Literally any service that’s public-facing.
Exactly
So what public facing services would you need at the weekend.
To be honest I don't really have much interaction with the Council.
But many do or need to. "
So not me or you so guess we will wate for the people how do need it to comment. But as I through it might be less then we think. Guess most working people don't really on service that much.
I did have to take a day off work to register a death. |
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Where are the staff coming from, to increase service levels and hours? And who's going to pay for it?
The NHS has enormous levels of unfilled vacancies.
Public services have been degraded over the previous 14 years of government. Rather than trying to stretch wafer thin service provision over a much bigger working week, I'd prefer restoration of service provision, to most of them, instead. |
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"Where are the staff coming from, to increase service levels and hours? And who's going to pay for it?
The NHS has enormous levels of unfilled vacancies.
Public services have been degraded over the previous 14 years of government. Rather than trying to stretch wafer thin service provision over a much bigger working week, I'd prefer restoration of service provision, to most of them, instead. "
All good questions Sophie but we need to think big ! |
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"Benefits:
Improve productivity
Reduce waiting lists
Create new jobs
What's not to like ?
Indeed. So why didn't the previous government do it?
They should have. The new Govt still can.
Doesn't seem likely. I think the problem is viability. There just aren't enough people ready to do it. They can't, legally, be compelled to, so you would always have a shortfall.
The real obstacle is the appetite to implement change, which is where governments falter. The unions are resistant to modernisation, and under this government, their influence is growing, making future reforms even harder."
"The appetite to implement change", as you put it, is the viability I was referring to. Not enough people want it.
As you point out, the unions will defend the legal rights of workers, where they exist, not to work on a weekend if they do not want to.
As for resisting modernisation goes, the unions also resist exploitation. Sometimes those things overlap.
Now, by all means vote for a political party that, like you, would be happy to remove such rights.
You'll just have to bide your time. |
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I work in the civil service and my shifts are 42 hours per week with expected attendance on a 24/7 basis....even Xmas day. For the first 6 years of my now ended marriage, I only had a half day on Xmas day once with my ex....the rest was on emergency callout protecting society in my chosen field. (I am also on call for emergency attendance).
Whoever thinks that all civil servants sit around doing very little, sloping off early, not putting in an honest shift, I only hope that when you require my attention in my professional life, you do not use your last gasps to tell me or my colleagues that we are wasters.
I have to say, there's a lot of bull in this forum. |
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"It’s more staff not 7 day working weeks.
Crudely 40% more cost
Taxpayer coughs up, more people imploded, waiting lists quashed "
More staff yes but if properly employed a net gain for UKs awful productivity levels. |
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I worked as a nurse in the NHS from aged 18-55. Ending up in a senior position able to prescribe and, basically do many duties that were once doctors duties. I have always worked weekends and out of hours. I took my pension aged 55, it's not gold plated, I could live on it as I don't have a mortgage. I am lucky and do work part time. My work was physically and mentally hard many times. |
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"I worked as a nurse in the NHS from aged 18-55. Ending up in a senior position able to prescribe and, basically do many duties that were once doctors duties. I have always worked weekends and out of hours. I took my pension aged 55, it's not gold plated, I could live on it as I don't have a mortgage. I am lucky and do work part time. My work was physically and mentally hard many times. "
Thank you and enjoy your retirement!  |
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"I work in the civil service and my shifts are 42 hours per week with expected attendance on a 24/7 basis....even Xmas day. For the first 6 years of my now ended marriage, I only had a half day on Xmas day once with my ex....the rest was on emergency callout protecting society in my chosen field. (I am also on call for emergency attendance).
Whoever thinks that all civil servants sit around doing very little, sloping off early, not putting in an honest shift, I only hope that when you require my attention in my professional life, you do not use your last gasps to tell me or my colleagues that we are wasters.
I have to say, there's a lot of bull in this forum."
I've never said that some public services are not 24/7, obviously many vital ones are. But why shouldn't they all be open at least 9-5 on weekends like most private businesses are ? |
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"I work in the civil service and my shifts are 42 hours per week with expected attendance on a 24/7 basis....even Xmas day. For the first 6 years of my now ended marriage, I only had a half day on Xmas day once with my ex....the rest was on emergency callout protecting society in my chosen field. (I am also on call for emergency attendance).
Whoever thinks that all civil servants sit around doing very little, sloping off early, not putting in an honest shift, I only hope that when you require my attention in my professional life, you do not use your last gasps to tell me or my colleagues that we are wasters.
I have to say, there's a lot of bull in this forum.
I've never said that some public services are not 24/7, obviously many vital ones are. But why shouldn't they all be open at least 9-5 on weekends like most private businesses are ?"
You would have to increase the size of the workforce.
The wage bill would increase.
The knock on costs of training and logistics have not been considered.
To name but a few ..... |
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You took the words right out of my mouth.
Another consideration is that much of the operating civil service relies upon support from the private sector.
......and guess what? They really ramp up the cost to the taxpayer if attendance outside weekdays on a 9 to 5 basis.
More cost to the taxpayer which we could all do without. |
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By *lan157Man 4 weeks ago
a village near Haywards Heath in East Sussex |
In my youth I did some temporary work at HMRC . One of the staff members there told me I should take my paid sick leave whether I was ill or not as " I was entitled to it " like holiday leave etc.. Hopefully he was in a very small minority. |
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By *enelope2UWoman 4 weeks ago
Doesn't matter cant block distances |
Yes and shops should be open untill 8pm minimum. Makes zero sense high street shops shut at 5 when those who aren't on benefits/pensioners are free all day to get things done and workers footing their leisure spends can't get into a shop because they close at 5/6. |
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Wouldn't it be better to open schools in the evening so parents can get on with stuff at home without the encumbrance of kids?
(.....for anyoone who thinks this is serious, I'm only joking, which is a backhand indictment of the mentality of some on here.) |
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Probably not enough staff to make any efficiency improvements, saying recruit more won't work as the money isn't there to pay them. Regardless of political persuasion the power in the country seems to be with the media  |
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Actually, I would ask anyone considering this forum proposal the following.
What examples of additional improvements to public service do you think can be achieved by spreading the same workload over 7 days instead of 5?
and
Would it be worth the additional cost?
|
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"I work in the civil service and my shifts are 42 hours per week with expected attendance on a 24/7 basis....even Xmas day. For the first 6 years of my now ended marriage, I only had a half day on Xmas day once with my ex....the rest was on emergency callout protecting society in my chosen field. (I am also on call for emergency attendance).
Whoever thinks that all civil servants sit around doing very little, sloping off early, not putting in an honest shift, I only hope that when you require my attention in my professional life, you do not use your last gasps to tell me or my colleagues that we are wasters.
I have to say, there's a lot of bull in this forum.
I've never said that some public services are not 24/7, obviously many vital ones are. But why shouldn't they all be open at least 9-5 on weekends like most private businesses are ?
You would have to increase the size of the workforce.
The wage bill would increase.
The knock on costs of training and logistics have not been considered.
To name but a few ....."
More employment = good thing.
More cost yes but more productivity = more growth = stronger economy able to pay.
Also more and more public services will be able to be automated in the future. |
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"Yes and shops should be open untill 8pm minimum. Makes zero sense high street shops shut at 5 when those who aren't on benefits/pensioners are free all day to get things done and workers footing their leisure spends can't get into a shop because they close at 5/6."
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"Actually, I would ask anyone considering this forum proposal the following.
What examples of additional improvements to public service do you think can be achieved by spreading the same workload over 7 days instead of 5?
and
Would it be worth the additional cost?
"
As said above the local council in Hastings is only open 9am to 4.30pm but I think at least one late evening per week and posably saterday morning would be beneficial to some. And would think this could be managed with current staffing on a more flexible shit pattern. |
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"Actually, I would ask anyone considering this forum proposal the following.
What examples of additional improvements to public service do you think can be achieved by spreading the same workload over 7 days instead of 5?
and
Would it be worth the additional cost?
As said above the local council in Hastings is only open 9am to 4.30pm but I think at least one late evening per week and posably saterday morning would be beneficial to some. And would think this could be managed with current staffing on a more flexible shit pattern."
Yes, doesn't have to be 24/7 just some flexibility and imagination. |
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"Benefits:
Improve productivity
Reduce waiting lists
Create new jobs
What's not to like ?
Indeed. So why didn't the previous government do it?
They should have. The new Govt still can.
Doesn't seem likely. I think the problem is viability. There just aren't enough people ready to do it. They can't, legally, be compelled to, so you would always have a shortfall.
Mind you, if you told the ones who were able to, that they could do their weekend shift working from home, you might get more uptake. 🙂
Changing the working week to cover a weekend is not a large change that it would significantly alter the role enough for it to be challenged under employment laws, or offer redundancy as the role still exists.
A change in contract wording where necessary to remove reference to Mon - Fri as the working week, if it exists, to 37.5 hours in any 7 days would be enough with proper consultation.
At some point the public services that are not active 7 days a week, need to modernise their working behaviours, if that means some leave so be it. New blood new start.
As I already said. If it were that easy, the previous government would have done it.
It literally is that easy to implement, the appetite to do it is not there because of the disruption it would bring. Labour will not lock horns with the unions and the tories will, why do you think there was no agreed deal for junior doctors, the tories wanted a unsociable hours extended in the contracts in return for 11% increase.
Labour walked to the table and gave them everything they wanted with no bilateral agreement, just gave our money away with no improvement."
Where do you hope to find the staff? |
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By *otMe66Man 4 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"Can someone put some number$ on this?
What extra costs?
A a small uplift, possibly, however the service being spread over 7 days, also spreads the demand.
"
@_ophieslut; This reply was to another post, apologies my mistake. |
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"Actually, I would ask anyone considering this forum proposal the following.
What examples of additional improvements to public service do you think can be achieved by spreading the same workload over 7 days instead of 5?
and
Would it be worth the additional cost?
As said above the local council in Hastings is only open 9am to 4.30pm but I think at least one late evening per week and posably saterday morning would be beneficial to some. And would think this could be managed with current staffing on a more flexible shit pattern.
Yes, doesn't have to be 24/7 just some flexibility and imagination. "
there's already cover 24/7 via online services to be fair ... just use them out of work hours ..job done |
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"Benefits:
Improve productivity
Reduce waiting lists
Create new jobs
What's not to like ?
Indeed. So why didn't the previous government do it?
They should have. The new Govt still can.
Doesn't seem likely. I think the problem is viability. There just aren't enough people ready to do it. They can't, legally, be compelled to, so you would always have a shortfall.
Mind you, if you told the ones who were able to, that they could do their weekend shift working from home, you might get more uptake. 🙂
Changing the working week to cover a weekend is not a large change that it would significantly alter the role enough for it to be challenged under employment laws, or offer redundancy as the role still exists.
A change in contract wording where necessary to remove reference to Mon - Fri as the working week, if it exists, to 37.5 hours in any 7 days would be enough with proper consultation.
At some point the public services that are not active 7 days a week, need to modernise their working behaviours, if that means some leave so be it. New blood new start.
As I already said. If it were that easy, the previous government would have done it.
It literally is that easy to implement, the appetite to do it is not there because of the disruption it would bring. Labour will not lock horns with the unions and the tories will, why do you think there was no agreed deal for junior doctors, the tories wanted a unsociable hours extended in the contracts in return for 11% increase.
Labour walked to the table and gave them everything they wanted with no bilateral agreement, just gave our money away with no improvement.
Where do you hope to find the staff?"
Get some of the workshy trained up. Can't be too hard to answer a phone and send out a few forms ! |
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By *otMe66Man 4 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"Benefits:
Improve productivity
Reduce waiting lists
Create new jobs
What's not to like ?
Indeed. So why didn't the previous government do it?
They should have. The new Govt still can.
Doesn't seem likely. I think the problem is viability. There just aren't enough people ready to do it. They can't, legally, be compelled to, so you would always have a shortfall.
Mind you, if you told the ones who were able to, that they could do their weekend shift working from home, you might get more uptake. 🙂
Changing the working week to cover a weekend is not a large change that it would significantly alter the role enough for it to be challenged under employment laws, or offer redundancy as the role still exists.
A change in contract wording where necessary to remove reference to Mon - Fri as the working week, if it exists, to 37.5 hours in any 7 days would be enough with proper consultation.
At some point the public services that are not active 7 days a week, need to modernise their working behaviours, if that means some leave so be it. New blood new start.
As I already said. If it were that easy, the previous government would have done it.
It literally is that easy to implement, the appetite to do it is not there because of the disruption it would bring. Labour will not lock horns with the unions and the tories will, why do you think there was no agreed deal for junior doctors, the tories wanted a unsociable hours extended in the contracts in return for 11% increase.
Labour walked to the table and gave them everything they wanted with no bilateral agreement, just gave our money away with no improvement.
Where do you hope to find the staff?"
Economics, supply and demand, but through the lens of those who need the service, not just through those who provide it. Public services exist for the taxpayer, and we should receive the service we expect, not one dictated by outdated workforce structures. The needs of the public should determine staffing models, not the other way around.
Flexibility attracts a wider workforce, younger workers actively want a more flexible working week, with the ability to work outside the rigid Monday-Friday structure. A structured 7-day schedule would likely increase recruitment rather than hinder it.
Why should public services be exempt from providing cover 7 days a week if demand exists? |
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"Actually, I would ask anyone considering this forum proposal the following.
What examples of additional improvements to public service do you think can be achieved by spreading the same workload over 7 days instead of 5?
and
Would it be worth the additional cost?
As said above the local council in Hastings is only open 9am to 4.30pm but I think at least one late evening per week and posably saterday morning would be beneficial to some. And would think this could be managed with current staffing on a more flexible shit pattern.
Yes, doesn't have to be 24/7 just some flexibility and imagination.
there's already cover 24/7 via online services to be fair ... just use them out of work hours ..job done "
Yes, online GPs 24/7 🤦♀️ |
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"Actually, I would ask anyone considering this forum proposal the following.
What examples of additional improvements to public service do you think can be achieved by spreading the same workload over 7 days instead of 5?
and
Would it be worth the additional cost?
As said above the local council in Hastings is only open 9am to 4.30pm but I think at least one late evening per week and posably saterday morning would be beneficial to some. And would think this could be managed with current staffing on a more flexible shit pattern.
Yes, doesn't have to be 24/7 just some flexibility and imagination.
there's already cover 24/7 via online services to be fair ... just use them out of work hours ..job done
Yes, online GPs 24/7 🤦♀️"
there is already out of hours service by GPs
🤡 |
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"Actually, I would ask anyone considering this forum proposal the following.
What examples of additional improvements to public service do you think can be achieved by spreading the same workload over 7 days instead of 5?
and
Would it be worth the additional cost?
As said above the local council in Hastings is only open 9am to 4.30pm but I think at least one late evening per week and posably saterday morning would be beneficial to some. And would think this could be managed with current staffing on a more flexible shit pattern.
Yes, doesn't have to be 24/7 just some flexibility and imagination.
there's already cover 24/7 via online services to be fair ... just use them out of work hours ..job done
Yes, online GPs 24/7 🤦♀️
there is already out of hours service by GPs
🤡"
You mean the 111 number that tells you everything's fine or to go to A&E for a nine hours wait.🤣🤣 |
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"Actually, I would ask anyone considering this forum proposal the following.
What examples of additional improvements to public service do you think can be achieved by spreading the same workload over 7 days instead of 5?
and
Would it be worth the additional cost?
As said above the local council in Hastings is only open 9am to 4.30pm but I think at least one late evening per week and posably saterday morning would be beneficial to some. And would think this could be managed with current staffing on a more flexible shit pattern.
Yes, doesn't have to be 24/7 just some flexibility and imagination.
there's already cover 24/7 via online services to be fair ... just use them out of work hours ..job done "
You can't even get a parking permit on line as you have to sign for it.
And as for registering death and getting death certificate. You have to go in.
There is lots you have to go in for but there not things I use that often. |
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"Isn't it odd when so much of the private sector is available seven days a week that the public sector is stuck in the 1950s ?
Shouldn't GP surgeries, local councils, the Civil Service, etc, etc all be available every day rather than bunking off at 3pm on Friday?"
No.
If you need to see a GP for a non emergency appointment then it’s reasonable to go between 9 and 5 on a weekday. The service needs improvement so appointments are available but why the obsession with 24/7 availability?
Same for other Public Services. Most rarely use them so should have to take time off work if necessary.
Libraries and leisure facilities should be open evenings and weekends. Maybe swap from the 9 to 5 opening as there is no point opening when people can’t get there. |
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"Isn't it odd when so much of the private sector is available seven days a week that the public sector is stuck in the 1950s ?
Shouldn't GP surgeries, local councils, the Civil Service, etc, etc all be available every day rather than bunking off at 3pm on Friday?
No.
If you need to see a GP for a non emergency appointment then it’s reasonable to go between 9 and 5 on a weekday. The service needs improvement so appointments are available but why the obsession with 24/7 availability?
Same for other Public Services. Most rarely use them so should have to take time off work if necessary.
Libraries and leisure facilities should be open evenings and weekends. Maybe swap from the 9 to 5 opening as there is no point opening when people can’t get there."
But GPs should be open when most people can get there? |
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"Benefits:
Improve productivity
Reduce waiting lists
Create new jobs
What's not to like ?
Indeed. So why didn't the previous government do it?
They should have. The new Govt still can.
Doesn't seem likely. I think the problem is viability. There just aren't enough people ready to do it. They can't, legally, be compelled to, so you would always have a shortfall.
Mind you, if you told the ones who were able to, that they could do their weekend shift working from home, you might get more uptake. 🙂
Changing the working week to cover a weekend is not a large change that it would significantly alter the role enough for it to be challenged under employment laws, or offer redundancy as the role still exists.
A change in contract wording where necessary to remove reference to Mon - Fri as the working week, if it exists, to 37.5 hours in any 7 days would be enough with proper consultation.
At some point the public services that are not active 7 days a week, need to modernise their working behaviours, if that means some leave so be it. New blood new start.
As I already said. If it were that easy, the previous government would have done it.
It literally is that easy to implement, the appetite to do it is not there because of the disruption it would bring. Labour will not lock horns with the unions and the tories will, why do you think there was no agreed deal for junior doctors, the tories wanted a unsociable hours extended in the contracts in return for 11% increase.
Labour walked to the table and gave them everything they wanted with no bilateral agreement, just gave our money away with no improvement.
Where do you hope to find the staff?
Get some of the workshy trained up. Can't be too hard to answer a phone and send out a few forms ! "
Not sure we have work shy GPs, just not enough of them (and who want to work full time). |
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"Benefits:
Improve productivity
Reduce waiting lists
Create new jobs
What's not to like ?
Indeed. So why didn't the previous government do it?
They should have. The new Govt still can.
Doesn't seem likely. I think the problem is viability. There just aren't enough people ready to do it. They can't, legally, be compelled to, so you would always have a shortfall.
Mind you, if you told the ones who were able to, that they could do their weekend shift working from home, you might get more uptake. 🙂
Changing the working week to cover a weekend is not a large change that it would significantly alter the role enough for it to be challenged under employment laws, or offer redundancy as the role still exists.
A change in contract wording where necessary to remove reference to Mon - Fri as the working week, if it exists, to 37.5 hours in any 7 days would be enough with proper consultation.
At some point the public services that are not active 7 days a week, need to modernise their working behaviours, if that means some leave so be it. New blood new start.
As I already said. If it were that easy, the previous government would have done it.
It literally is that easy to implement, the appetite to do it is not there because of the disruption it would bring. Labour will not lock horns with the unions and the tories will, why do you think there was no agreed deal for junior doctors, the tories wanted a unsociable hours extended in the contracts in return for 11% increase.
Labour walked to the table and gave them everything they wanted with no bilateral agreement, just gave our money away with no improvement.
Where do you hope to find the staff?
Economics, supply and demand, but through the lens of those who need the service, not just through those who provide it. Public services exist for the taxpayer, and we should receive the service we expect, not one dictated by outdated workforce structures. The needs of the public should determine staffing models, not the other way around.
Flexibility attracts a wider workforce, younger workers actively want a more flexible working week, with the ability to work outside the rigid Monday-Friday structure. A structured 7-day schedule would likely increase recruitment rather than hinder it.
Why should public services be exempt from providing cover 7 days a week if demand exists? "
I have worked in the public sector that provides cover 365/6 a year and 24/7. You won't get an argument out of me. But again, where are you going to get the staff (healthcare professionals where there currently exists a plethora of vacancies)? |
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"Actually, I would ask anyone considering this forum proposal the following.
What examples of additional improvements to public service do you think can be achieved by spreading the same workload over 7 days instead of 5?
and
Would it be worth the additional cost?
As said above the local council in Hastings is only open 9am to 4.30pm but I think at least one late evening per week and posably saterday morning would be beneficial to some. And would think this could be managed with current staffing on a more flexible shit pattern.
Yes, doesn't have to be 24/7 just some flexibility and imagination.
there's already cover 24/7 via online services to be fair ... just use them out of work hours ..job done
Yes, online GPs 24/7 🤦♀️"
There's 111  |
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"It also makes for better use of technology e.g. MRI scanners. These machines can run 24/7 with occasional planned maintenance. Extended hours use would give a far better return on investment."
Very good point |
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"It also makes for better use of technology e.g. MRI scanners. These machines can run 24/7 with occasional planned maintenance. Extended hours use would give a far better return on investment.
Very good point "
They need staff. |
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"It also makes for better use of technology e.g. MRI scanners. These machines can run 24/7 with occasional planned maintenance. Extended hours use would give a far better return on investment."
Do you not think MRI is available to A&E 24/7. Same as exray |
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"It also makes for better use of technology e.g. MRI scanners. These machines can run 24/7 with occasional planned maintenance. Extended hours use would give a far better return on investment.
Very good point
They need staff."
5 million of working age not working in UK.  |
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"Actually, I would ask anyone considering this forum proposal the following.
What examples of additional improvements to public service do you think can be achieved by spreading the same workload over 7 days instead of 5?
and
Would it be worth the additional cost?
As said above the local council in Hastings is only open 9am to 4.30pm but I think at least one late evening per week and posably saterday morning would be beneficial to some. And would think this could be managed with current staffing on a more flexible shit pattern.
Yes, doesn't have to be 24/7 just some flexibility and imagination.
there's already cover 24/7 via online services to be fair ... just use them out of work hours ..job done
Yes, online GPs 24/7 🤦♀️
There's 111 "
Good luck with that. Why shouldn't GP surgeries be open at weekends? |
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"It also makes for better use of technology e.g. MRI scanners. These machines can run 24/7 with occasional planned maintenance. Extended hours use would give a far better return on investment.
Very good point
They need staff.
5 million of working age not working in UK. "
All healthcare professionals? I don't know the ratio of radiologists to radiographers needed. |
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"Actually, I would ask anyone considering this forum proposal the following.
What examples of additional improvements to public service do you think can be achieved by spreading the same workload over 7 days instead of 5?
and
Would it be worth the additional cost?
As said above the local council in Hastings is only open 9am to 4.30pm but I think at least one late evening per week and posably saterday morning would be beneficial to some. And would think this could be managed with current staffing on a more flexible shit pattern.
Yes, doesn't have to be 24/7 just some flexibility and imagination.
there's already cover 24/7 via online services to be fair ... just use them out of work hours ..job done
Yes, online GPs 24/7 🤦♀️
There's 111
Good luck with that. Why shouldn't GP surgeries be open at weekends?"
GP surgeries are funded by NHS but not quite public sector. For example, GP (owners) employ the practice nurses (the nhs doesn't).
Other than that, I'm not adverse to other sectors, staff availability being as I have been.
|
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"
But GPs should be open when most people can get there? "
No, GPs have to have an acceptable work life balance.
They are providing a service to the patient so the patient needs to allocate the time to go if necessary. |
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"
But GPs should be open when most people can get there?
No, GPs have to have an acceptable work life balance.
They are providing a service to the patient so the patient needs to allocate the time to go if necessary."
I think you've summed up the whole problem ! Public services thinking the public needs to accommodate them, not the other way around. Explains exactly why so many public services are so poor and such bad value for money. |
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"
But GPs should be open when most people can get there?
No, GPs have to have an acceptable work life balance.
They are providing a service to the patient so the patient needs to allocate the time to go if necessary."
Everybody should have an acceptable work life balance. GPs earn a damn good wage. They could work less than a factory shift worker and still take home a damn good wage, improving their work life balance. It's not about increasing their workload individually, but increasing availability at the practice. |
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"
But GPs should be open when most people can get there?
No, GPs have to have an acceptable work life balance.
They are providing a service to the patient so the patient needs to allocate the time to go if necessary.
Everybody should have an acceptable work life balance. GPs earn a damn good wage. They could work less than a factory shift worker and still take home a damn good wage, improving their work life balance. It's not about increasing their workload individually, but increasing availability at the practice."
Exactly. |
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By *otMe66Man 4 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"
But GPs should be open when most people can get there?
No, GPs have to have an acceptable work life balance.
They are providing a service to the patient so the patient needs to allocate the time to go if necessary.
Everybody should have an acceptable work life balance. GPs earn a damn good wage. They could work less than a factory shift worker and still take home a damn good wage, improving their work life balance. It's not about increasing their workload individually, but increasing availability at the practice."
|
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"
But GPs should be open when most people can get there?
No, GPs have to have an acceptable work life balance.
They are providing a service to the patient so the patient needs to allocate the time to go if necessary.
Everybody should have an acceptable work life balance. GPs earn a damn good wage. They could work less than a factory shift worker and still take home a damn good wage, improving their work life balance. It's not about increasing their workload individually, but increasing availability at the practice."
Increase availability, yes.
Everyone should be able to get an urgent appointment same day and a non urgent one in a few days.
However, extended hours shouldn’t be necessary. Everyone should have the right to have time off work for medical appointments. Therefore there isn’t a requirement for extended hours.
|
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"
But GPs should be open when most people can get there?
No, GPs have to have an acceptable work life balance.
They are providing a service to the patient so the patient needs to allocate the time to go if necessary.
Everybody should have an acceptable work life balance. GPs earn a damn good wage. They could work less than a factory shift worker and still take home a damn good wage, improving their work life balance. It's not about increasing their workload individually, but increasing availability at the practice.
Increase availability, yes.
Everyone should be able to get an urgent appointment same day and a non urgent one in a few days.
However, extended hours shouldn’t be necessary. Everyone should have the right to have time off work for medical appointments. Therefore there isn’t a requirement for extended hours.
"
So hard luck for millions of self employed and bank workers then. |
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By *otMe66Man 4 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"
But GPs should be open when most people can get there?
No, GPs have to have an acceptable work life balance.
They are providing a service to the patient so the patient needs to allocate the time to go if necessary.
Everybody should have an acceptable work life balance. GPs earn a damn good wage. They could work less than a factory shift worker and still take home a damn good wage, improving their work life balance. It's not about increasing their workload individually, but increasing availability at the practice.
Increase availability, yes.
Everyone should be able to get an urgent appointment same day and a non urgent one in a few days.
However, extended hours shouldn’t be necessary. Everyone should have the right to have time off work for medical appointments. Therefore there isn’t a requirement for extended hours.
"
The figures below, I know they are not accurate, they are meant as an example.
Lets say you have 2 GP's in a practice, both working Mon - Fri 09:00 - 17:00.
If the GP 1 took Monday off and worked Saturday you would now have 6 days of GP cover with both still taking 2 days off.
This allows people who work Mon - Fri to book appointments on a Saturday.
If the Saturday became their busiest day, why wouldn't GP 2 take a Friday off and work the Saturday or Sunday extending the practice availability even further? Neither are working more hours, just being more flexible
|
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"
But GPs should be open when most people can get there?
No, GPs have to have an acceptable work life balance.
They are providing a service to the patient so the patient needs to allocate the time to go if necessary.
Everybody should have an acceptable work life balance. GPs earn a damn good wage. They could work less than a factory shift worker and still take home a damn good wage, improving their work life balance. It's not about increasing their workload individually, but increasing availability at the practice.
Increase availability, yes.
Everyone should be able to get an urgent appointment same day and a non urgent one in a few days.
However, extended hours shouldn’t be necessary. Everyone should have the right to have time off work for medical appointments. Therefore there isn’t a requirement for extended hours.
The figures below, I know they are not accurate, they are meant as an example.
Lets say you have 2 GP's in a practice, both working Mon - Fri 09:00 - 17:00.
If the GP 1 took Monday off and worked Saturday you would now have 6 days of GP cover with both still taking 2 days off.
This allows people who work Mon - Fri to book appointments on a Saturday.
If the Saturday became their busiest day, why wouldn't GP 2 take a Friday off and work the Saturday or Sunday extending the practice availability even further? Neither are working more hours, just being more flexible
"
Well put. |
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"
But GPs should be open when most people can get there?
No, GPs have to have an acceptable work life balance.
They are providing a service to the patient so the patient needs to allocate the time to go if necessary.
Everybody should have an acceptable work life balance. GPs earn a damn good wage. They could work less than a factory shift worker and still take home a damn good wage, improving their work life balance. It's not about increasing their workload individually, but increasing availability at the practice.
Increase availability, yes.
Everyone should be able to get an urgent appointment same day and a non urgent one in a few days.
However, extended hours shouldn’t be necessary. Everyone should have the right to have time off work for medical appointments. Therefore there isn’t a requirement for extended hours.
"
But if you could exsted the hours would the UK become more productive as people don't take time of work to see a GP.
We need more GP's but at the moment I heard they are limited traning places in the UK so only 9500 can qualify per year. |
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"
But GPs should be open when most people can get there?
No, GPs have to have an acceptable work life balance.
They are providing a service to the patient so the patient needs to allocate the time to go if necessary.
Everybody should have an acceptable work life balance. GPs earn a damn good wage. They could work less than a factory shift worker and still take home a damn good wage, improving their work life balance. It's not about increasing their workload individually, but increasing availability at the practice.
Increase availability, yes.
Everyone should be able to get an urgent appointment same day and a non urgent one in a few days.
However, extended hours shouldn’t be necessary. Everyone should have the right to have time off work for medical appointments. Therefore there isn’t a requirement for extended hours.
The figures below, I know they are not accurate, they are meant as an example.
Lets say you have 2 GP's in a practice, both working Mon - Fri 09:00 - 17:00.
If the GP 1 took Monday off and worked Saturday you would now have 6 days of GP cover with both still taking 2 days off.
This allows people who work Mon - Fri to book appointments on a Saturday.
If the Saturday became their busiest day, why wouldn't GP 2 take a Friday off and work the Saturday or Sunday extending the practice availability even further? Neither are working more hours, just being more flexible
Well put. "
Or just start late finish late 2 days a week. Also means missing the traffic if commuting. |
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"It also makes for better use of technology e.g. MRI scanners. These machines can run 24/7 with occasional planned maintenance. Extended hours use would give a far better return on investment.
Do you not think MRI is available to A&E 24/7. Same as exray "
For A&E yes, but those machines are on 'standby'. Why not have a full team on shift seeing outpatients too? |
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"I worked as a nurse in the NHS from aged 18-55. Ending up in a senior position able to prescribe and, basically do many duties that were once doctors duties. I have always worked weekends and out of hours. I took my pension aged 55, it's not gold plated, I could live on it as I don't have a mortgage. I am lucky and do work part time. My work was physically and mentally hard many times. "
I was a police officer for 30 years during which time I paid 9% pension contributions rising to 16% after the financial crash.
Gold plated my arse. |
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"I worked as a nurse in the NHS from aged 18-55. Ending up in a senior position able to prescribe and, basically do many duties that were once doctors duties. I have always worked weekends and out of hours. I took my pension aged 55, it's not gold plated, I could live on it as I don't have a mortgage. I am lucky and do work part time. My work was physically and mentally hard many times.
I was a police officer for 30 years during which time I paid 9% pension contributions rising to 16% after the financial crash.
Gold plated my arse."
Yer sone people are thinking back to when it was Super anuation and it was a final salary scheme.
People use to go on to night and do extra shifts in there last years to push up there pension. But those days are long gone. |
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"
But GPs should be open when most people can get there?
No, GPs have to have an acceptable work life balance.
They are providing a service to the patient so the patient needs to allocate the time to go if necessary.
Everybody should have an acceptable work life balance. GPs earn a damn good wage. They could work less than a factory shift worker and still take home a damn good wage, improving their work life balance. It's not about increasing their workload individually, but increasing availability at the practice.
Increase availability, yes.
Everyone should be able to get an urgent appointment same day and a non urgent one in a few days.
However, extended hours shouldn’t be necessary. Everyone should have the right to have time off work for medical appointments. Therefore there isn’t a requirement for extended hours.
"
With an increasing population there is. With an increasing population but a slow increase in infrastructure (which includes more GP practices) there is. With an increasing population, of whom are failing to register with GP practices and therefore inappropriately going to A&E, yes there is. With the increasing demographic of elderly with co-morbidities, yes there is. |
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"
But GPs should be open when most people can get there?
No, GPs have to have an acceptable work life balance.
They are providing a service to the patient so the patient needs to allocate the time to go if necessary.
Everybody should have an acceptable work life balance. GPs earn a damn good wage. They could work less than a factory shift worker and still take home a damn good wage, improving their work life balance. It's not about increasing their workload individually, but increasing availability at the practice.
Increase availability, yes.
Everyone should be able to get an urgent appointment same day and a non urgent one in a few days.
However, extended hours shouldn’t be necessary. Everyone should have the right to have time off work for medical appointments. Therefore there isn’t a requirement for extended hours.
The figures below, I know they are not accurate, they are meant as an example.
Lets say you have 2 GP's in a practice, both working Mon - Fri 09:00 - 17:00.
If the GP 1 took Monday off and worked Saturday you would now have 6 days of GP cover with both still taking 2 days off.
This allows people who work Mon - Fri to book appointments on a Saturday.
If the Saturday became their busiest day, why wouldn't GP 2 take a Friday off and work the Saturday or Sunday extending the practice availability even further? Neither are working more hours, just being more flexible
"
Most GP practices opening hours are 8-6 |
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Around 9,500 medical students are trained in the UK each year. This number has increased by about 2,000 since 2013.
Explanation
The UK has caps on the number of medical and dental students that can be trained each year.
The number of medical school places is limited by "intake targets".
The number of medical school graduates in the UK in 2022 was 9,140.
The number of training posts advertised by HEE each year is around 11,000 to 12,000.
The latest GMC data, shows that approximately 4,000 doctors who have given up their license to practice or left the medical register in 2023, stated going abroad, as one of their reasons for leaving.
Overall, the total number of doctors retiring has risen by 35% over the past 15 years, from 2431 in 2008 to 3277 in 2023. Over the same timeframe, the total number of doctors employed by the NHS in England and Wales has increased by 33%, from 141,000 in 2008 to 187,000 in 2023
So numbers are going up just not fast enough. |
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"Around 9,500 medical students are trained in the UK each year. This number has increased by about 2,000 since 2013.
Explanation
The UK has caps on the number of medical and dental students that can be trained each year.
The number of medical school places is limited by "intake targets".
The number of medical school graduates in the UK in 2022 was 9,140.
The number of training posts advertised by HEE each year is around 11,000 to 12,000.
The latest GMC data, shows that approximately 4,000 doctors who have given up their license to practice or left the medical register in 2023, stated going abroad, as one of their reasons for leaving.
Overall, the total number of doctors retiring has risen by 35% over the past 15 years, from 2431 in 2008 to 3277 in 2023. Over the same timeframe, the total number of doctors employed by the NHS in England and Wales has increased by 33%, from 141,000 in 2008 to 187,000 in 2023
So numbers are going up just not fast enough. "
I wonder what the net hours are. Increasing numbers do not give any indication of net hours. |
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"Around 9,500 medical students are trained in the UK each year. This number has increased by about 2,000 since 2013.
Explanation
The UK has caps on the number of medical and dental students that can be trained each year.
The number of medical school places is limited by "intake targets".
The number of medical school graduates in the UK in 2022 was 9,140.
The number of training posts advertised by HEE each year is around 11,000 to 12,000.
The latest GMC data, shows that approximately 4,000 doctors who have given up their license to practice or left the medical register in 2023, stated going abroad, as one of their reasons for leaving.
Overall, the total number of doctors retiring has risen by 35% over the past 15 years, from 2431 in 2008 to 3277 in 2023. Over the same timeframe, the total number of doctors employed by the NHS in England and Wales has increased by 33%, from 141,000 in 2008 to 187,000 in 2023
So numbers are going up just not fast enough.
I wonder what the net hours are. Increasing numbers do not give any indication of net hours."
Nor does it state the doctors' stages. My point is a doctor becomes a doctor before completion of training. |
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"Around 9,500 medical students are trained in the UK each year. This number has increased by about 2,000 since 2013.
Explanation
The UK has caps on the number of medical and dental students that can be trained each year.
The number of medical school places is limited by "intake targets".
The number of medical school graduates in the UK in 2022 was 9,140.
The number of training posts advertised by HEE each year is around 11,000 to 12,000.
The latest GMC data, shows that approximately 4,000 doctors who have given up their license to practice or left the medical register in 2023, stated going abroad, as one of their reasons for leaving.
Overall, the total number of doctors retiring has risen by 35% over the past 15 years, from 2431 in 2008 to 3277 in 2023. Over the same timeframe, the total number of doctors employed by the NHS in England and Wales has increased by 33%, from 141,000 in 2008 to 187,000 in 2023
So numbers are going up just not fast enough.
I wonder what the net hours are. Increasing numbers do not give any indication of net hours.
Nor does it state the doctors' stages. My point is a doctor becomes a doctor before completion of training."
As it would appear the UK is short of doctors do you know why it is capped at 9500 per year. |
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"Around 9,500 medical students are trained in the UK each year. This number has increased by about 2,000 since 2013.
Explanation
The UK has caps on the number of medical and dental students that can be trained each year.
The number of medical school places is limited by "intake targets".
The number of medical school graduates in the UK in 2022 was 9,140.
The number of training posts advertised by HEE each year is around 11,000 to 12,000.
The latest GMC data, shows that approximately 4,000 doctors who have given up their license to practice or left the medical register in 2023, stated going abroad, as one of their reasons for leaving.
Overall, the total number of doctors retiring has risen by 35% over the past 15 years, from 2431 in 2008 to 3277 in 2023. Over the same timeframe, the total number of doctors employed by the NHS in England and Wales has increased by 33%, from 141,000 in 2008 to 187,000 in 2023
So numbers are going up just not fast enough.
I wonder what the net hours are. Increasing numbers do not give any indication of net hours.
Nor does it state the doctors' stages. My point is a doctor becomes a doctor before completion of training.
As it would appear the UK is short of doctors do you know why it is capped at 9500 per year. "
I would assume a shortage of training places. |
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"Around 9,500 medical students are trained in the UK each year. This number has increased by about 2,000 since 2013.
Explanation
The UK has caps on the number of medical and dental students that can be trained each year.
The number of medical school places is limited by "intake targets".
The number of medical school graduates in the UK in 2022 was 9,140.
The number of training posts advertised by HEE each year is around 11,000 to 12,000.
The latest GMC data, shows that approximately 4,000 doctors who have given up their license to practice or left the medical register in 2023, stated going abroad, as one of their reasons for leaving.
Overall, the total number of doctors retiring has risen by 35% over the past 15 years, from 2431 in 2008 to 3277 in 2023. Over the same timeframe, the total number of doctors employed by the NHS in England and Wales has increased by 33%, from 141,000 in 2008 to 187,000 in 2023
So numbers are going up just not fast enough.
I wonder what the net hours are. Increasing numbers do not give any indication of net hours.
Nor does it state the doctors' stages. My point is a doctor becomes a doctor before completion of training.
As it would appear the UK is short of doctors do you know why it is capped at 9500 per year.
I would assume a shortage of training places."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-62594141
Basically cost of training doctors. |
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"Around 9,500 medical students are trained in the UK each year. This number has increased by about 2,000 since 2013.
Explanation
The UK has caps on the number of medical and dental students that can be trained each year.
The number of medical school places is limited by "intake targets".
The number of medical school graduates in the UK in 2022 was 9,140.
The number of training posts advertised by HEE each year is around 11,000 to 12,000.
The latest GMC data, shows that approximately 4,000 doctors who have given up their license to practice or left the medical register in 2023, stated going abroad, as one of their reasons for leaving.
Overall, the total number of doctors retiring has risen by 35% over the past 15 years, from 2431 in 2008 to 3277 in 2023. Over the same timeframe, the total number of doctors employed by the NHS in England and Wales has increased by 33%, from 141,000 in 2008 to 187,000 in 2023
So numbers are going up just not fast enough.
I wonder what the net hours are. Increasing numbers do not give any indication of net hours.
Nor does it state the doctors' stages. My point is a doctor becomes a doctor before completion of training.
As it would appear the UK is short of doctors do you know why it is capped at 9500 per year.
I would assume a shortage of training places.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-62594141
Basically cost of training doctors."
Thank you for that. So it's down to investment. Or the lack of it. |
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"It also makes for better use of technology e.g. MRI scanners. These machines can run 24/7 with occasional planned maintenance. Extended hours use would give a far better return on investment.
Very good point
They need staff.
5 million of working age not working in UK.
All healthcare professionals? I don't know the ratio of radiologists to radiographers needed."
Absolutely. Radiography departments are already working on a 7 day a week basis. Taking photos isn't the issue, it's a lack of interpreters so the issue comes back to training and investing in more staff....not asking them to work weekends and creating gaps during the week. |
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"I worked as a nurse in the NHS from aged 18-55. Ending up in a senior position able to prescribe and, basically do many duties that were once doctors duties. I have always worked weekends and out of hours. I took my pension aged 55, it's not gold plated, I could live on it as I don't have a mortgage. I am lucky and do work part time. My work was physically and mentally hard many times.
I was a police officer for 30 years during which time I paid 9% pension contributions rising to 16% after the financial crash.
Gold plated my arse.
Yer sone people are thinking back to when it was Super anuation and it was a final salary scheme.
People use to go on to night and do extra shifts in there last years to push up there pension. But those days are long gone. "
They are gone sadly, I'm not sure all people can do front line roles in their late 50's or 60's. |
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By *coptoCouple 4 weeks ago
Côte d'Azur & Great Yarmouth |
"One of the staff members there told me I should take my paid sick leave whether I was ill or not as " I was entitled to it " like holiday leave etc."
NOT so outrageous... it would have been Trade Union pressure to consolidate and reinforce a hard-gained benefit. Use it or lose it, many of today's workers on zero-hour contracts etc. get nothing from employers if they're off sick. |
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"I worked as a nurse in the NHS from aged 18-55. Ending up in a senior position able to prescribe and, basically do many duties that were once doctors duties. I have always worked weekends and out of hours. I took my pension aged 55, it's not gold plated, I could live on it as I don't have a mortgage. I am lucky and do work part time. My work was physically and mentally hard many times.
I was a police officer for 30 years during which time I paid 9% pension contributions rising to 16% after the financial crash.
Gold plated my arse.
Yer sone people are thinking back to when it was Super anuation and it was a final salary scheme.
People use to go on to night and do extra shifts in there last years to push up there pension. But those days are long gone.
They are gone sadly, I'm not sure all people can do front line roles in their late 50's or 60's. "
Tell that to a brick layer or any one in the construction industry same for everyone. |
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"
I get more GP's working but what othere service do people want at a weekend.
Literally any service that’s public-facing.
Exactly
So what public facing services would you need at the weekend.
To be honest I don't really have much interaction with the Council.
But many do or need to. "
Most departments have emergency out of hours contact. The staff work a rota to cover the hours 24/7. Social work. Housing. Environmental health for example. In most cases it's part of your contract and no additional payment is made for being on call.
I doubt the demand is there for full opening of these services at weekends. I'm public sector. Have tried varied hours to accomodate public with face to face appointments. They still don't show up.
Also piloted a Saturday opening once a month for drop ins. Sat around most of the day with average of 3 or 4 people contacting. How is that value for money in anyone's eyes.
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"I work in the civil service and my shifts are 42 hours per week with expected attendance on a 24/7 basis....even Xmas day. For the first 6 years of my now ended marriage, I only had a half day on Xmas day once with my ex....the rest was on emergency callout protecting society in my chosen field. (I am also on call for emergency attendance).
Whoever thinks that all civil servants sit around doing very little, sloping off early, not putting in an honest shift, I only hope that when you require my attention in my professional life, you do not use your last gasps to tell me or my colleagues that we are wasters.
I have to say, there's a lot of bull in this forum."
Well said!!! |
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By *abioMan 4 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"I work in the civil service and my shifts are 42 hours per week with expected attendance on a 24/7 basis....even Xmas day. For the first 6 years of my now ended marriage, I only had a half day on Xmas day once with my ex....the rest was on emergency callout protecting society in my chosen field. (I am also on call for emergency attendance).
Whoever thinks that all civil servants sit around doing very little, sloping off early, not putting in an honest shift, I only hope that when you require my attention in my professional life, you do not use your last gasps to tell me or my colleagues that we are wasters.
I have to say, there's a lot of bull in this forum."
Sorry to hear that…..
I have tried explaining to Leo so many times that the term “civil service “ is a catch all term… but it goes in one ear and out the other
The first part of the civil service I went into 13 years ago actually had lines open till 8pm weekdays and Saturday mornings as well…. Ironically they had few calls after 6 and Saturdays were stop start at best to the point it wasn’t worth opening the lines and those colleagues were redeployed to mon-fri 9-5 and got extra pay for breaking of the contract
It the same problem with trains and drivers… if they just worked their prescribed hours… you would have a Sunday service on a Saturday… and no Sunday service at all!
So , for someone like Leo who wants a smaller civil service Is less Monday to Friday activities to cover weekends…. Or more people!
Which is it? |
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"I work in the civil service and my shifts are 42 hours per week with expected attendance on a 24/7 basis....even Xmas day. For the first 6 years of my now ended marriage, I only had a half day on Xmas day once with my ex....the rest was on emergency callout protecting society in my chosen field. (I am also on call for emergency attendance).
Whoever thinks that all civil servants sit around doing very little, sloping off early, not putting in an honest shift, I only hope that when you require my attention in my professional life, you do not use your last gasps to tell me or my colleagues that we are wasters.
I have to say, there's a lot of bull in this forum.
Sorry to hear that…..
I have tried explaining to Leo so many times that the term “civil service “ is a catch all term… but it goes in one ear and out the other
The first part of the civil service I went into 13 years ago actually had lines open till 8pm weekdays and Saturday mornings as well…. Ironically they had few calls after 6 and Saturdays were stop start at best to the point it wasn’t worth opening the lines and those colleagues were redeployed to mon-fri 9-5 and got extra pay for breaking of the contract
It the same problem with trains and drivers… if they just worked their prescribed hours… you would have a Sunday service on a Saturday… and no Sunday service at all!
So , for someone like Leo who wants a smaller civil service Is less Monday to Friday activities to cover weekends…. Or more people!
Which is it?"
Get back to work Fabio !  |
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"I work in the civil service and my shifts are 42 hours per week with expected attendance on a 24/7 basis....even Xmas day. For the first 6 years of my now ended marriage, I only had a half day on Xmas day once with my ex....the rest was on emergency callout protecting society in my chosen field. (I am also on call for emergency attendance).
Whoever thinks that all civil servants sit around doing very little, sloping off early, not putting in an honest shift, I only hope that when you require my attention in my professional life, you do not use your last gasps to tell me or my colleagues that we are wasters.
I have to say, there's a lot of bull in this forum.
Sorry to hear that…..
I have tried explaining to Leo so many times that the term “civil service “ is a catch all term… but it goes in one ear and out the other
The first part of the civil service I went into 13 years ago actually had lines open till 8pm weekdays and Saturday mornings as well…. Ironically they had few calls after 6 and Saturdays were stop start at best to the point it wasn’t worth opening the lines and those colleagues were redeployed to mon-fri 9-5 and got extra pay for breaking of the contract
It the same problem with trains and drivers… if they just worked their prescribed hours… you would have a Sunday service on a Saturday… and no Sunday service at all!
So , for someone like Leo who wants a smaller civil service Is less Monday to Friday activities to cover weekends…. Or more people!
Which is it?
Get back to work Fabio ! "
This forum does seem to be full of Labour voting public sector workers who have a lot of time on their hands to explain how busy they are and why they need more money. |
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By *abioMan 4 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"It also makes for better use of technology e.g. MRI scanners. These machines can run 24/7 with occasional planned maintenance. Extended hours use would give a far better return on investment.
Do you not think MRI is available to A&E 24/7.
Same as exray "
And just because schedule outpatient stuff is Monday to Friday it doesn’t mean inpatient stuff is… I missed a cup final on a Saturday afternoon because I was having 2 pints of fluid removed from my lungs because I collapsed going in having pneumonia
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By *abioMan 4 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"I work in the civil service and my shifts are 42 hours per week with expected attendance on a 24/7 basis....even Xmas day. For the first 6 years of my now ended marriage, I only had a half day on Xmas day once with my ex....the rest was on emergency callout protecting society in my chosen field. (I am also on call for emergency attendance).
Whoever thinks that all civil servants sit around doing very little, sloping off early, not putting in an honest shift, I only hope that when you require my attention in my professional life, you do not use your last gasps to tell me or my colleagues that we are wasters.
I have to say, there's a lot of bull in this forum.
Sorry to hear that…..
I have tried explaining to Leo so many times that the term “civil service “ is a catch all term… but it goes in one ear and out the other
The first part of the civil service I went into 13 years ago actually had lines open till 8pm weekdays and Saturday mornings as well…. Ironically they had few calls after 6 and Saturdays were stop start at best to the point it wasn’t worth opening the lines and those colleagues were redeployed to mon-fri 9-5 and got extra pay for breaking of the contract
It the same problem with trains and drivers… if they just worked their prescribed hours… you would have a Sunday service on a Saturday… and no Sunday service at all!
So , for someone like Leo who wants a smaller civil service Is less Monday to Friday activities to cover weekends…. Or more people!
Which is it?
Get back to work Fabio ! "
Sorry, I work 5 days over 4…. Day off!
…. Although I will make an unscheduled visit to the office, getting my work from home laptop replaced for a brand new one!!!!! |
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By *abioMan 4 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"I work in the civil service and my shifts are 42 hours per week with expected attendance on a 24/7 basis....even Xmas day. For the first 6 years of my now ended marriage, I only had a half day on Xmas day once with my ex....the rest was on emergency callout protecting society in my chosen field. (I am also on call for emergency attendance).
Whoever thinks that all civil servants sit around doing very little, sloping off early, not putting in an honest shift, I only hope that when you require my attention in my professional life, you do not use your last gasps to tell me or my colleagues that we are wasters.
I have to say, there's a lot of bull in this forum.
Sorry to hear that…..
I have tried explaining to Leo so many times that the term “civil service “ is a catch all term… but it goes in one ear and out the other
The first part of the civil service I went into 13 years ago actually had lines open till 8pm weekdays and Saturday mornings as well…. Ironically they had few calls after 6 and Saturdays were stop start at best to the point it wasn’t worth opening the lines and those colleagues were redeployed to mon-fri 9-5 and got extra pay for breaking of the contract
It the same problem with trains and drivers… if they just worked their prescribed hours… you would have a Sunday service on a Saturday… and no Sunday service at all!
So , for someone like Leo who wants a smaller civil service Is less Monday to Friday activities to cover weekends…. Or more people!
Which is it?
Get back to work Fabio !
This forum does seem to be full of Labour voting public sector workers who have a lot of time on their hands to explain how busy they are and why they need more money."
1) if that was pointed at me, I actually haven’t voted labour since… who was the one before the one before corbyn?
2) I could tell you the job I was doing at the time, and it would make you look really petty and small… I’ll save you the embarrassment |
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"I work in the civil service and my shifts are 42 hours per week with expected attendance on a 24/7 basis....even Xmas day. For the first 6 years of my now ended marriage, I only had a half day on Xmas day once with my ex....the rest was on emergency callout protecting society in my chosen field. (I am also on call for emergency attendance).
Whoever thinks that all civil servants sit around doing very little, sloping off early, not putting in an honest shift, I only hope that when you require my attention in my professional life, you do not use your last gasps to tell me or my colleagues that we are wasters.
I have to say, there's a lot of bull in this forum.
Sorry to hear that…..
I have tried explaining to Leo so many times that the term “civil service “ is a catch all term… but it goes in one ear and out the other
The first part of the civil service I went into 13 years ago actually had lines open till 8pm weekdays and Saturday mornings as well…. Ironically they had few calls after 6 and Saturdays were stop start at best to the point it wasn’t worth opening the lines and those colleagues were redeployed to mon-fri 9-5 and got extra pay for breaking of the contract
It the same problem with trains and drivers… if they just worked their prescribed hours… you would have a Sunday service on a Saturday… and no Sunday service at all!
So , for someone like Leo who wants a smaller civil service Is less Monday to Friday activities to cover weekends…. Or more people!
Which is it?
Get back to work Fabio !
Sorry, I work 5 days over 4…. Day off!
…. Although I will make an unscheduled visit to the office, getting my work from home laptop replaced for a brand new one!!!!! "
. |
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"Bank of England says low public sector productivity since Covid is dragging down the whole economy. Time to get those Civil Servants away from the golf course and get them working weekends! "
Yep....absolutely.
Let's increase public spending on overtime, training, contractual costs with the private sector, to name but a few. Just to enable the widening of their costs for absolutely no increase in output, but purely for vindictive personal prejudice.
Please read the detail where the BoE have suggested that the problems with low productivity arise.....it isn't because not all offices are open 7 days a week.
Ps. Why assume that all civil servants can afford the time or cost of just occupying golf courses over the weekend? Have you any evidence that this is happening or is is just spouted from a vindictive and uninformed position? |
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"Bank of England says low public sector productivity since Covid is dragging down the whole economy. Time to get those Civil Servants away from the golf course and get them working weekends! "
Productivity down 8% since the start of the pandemic.
Time to start mass layoffs in the public sector. I Would have been a much better way of filling that “black hole” and wouldn’t have involved crashing the economy either.
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