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If Corbyn was in
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"Thoughts? None whatsoever... it's as speculative (silly?) as asking what would have happened if the Germans had won WWII or if Martians were to land in Scunthorpe next week!" you meen they havent have you been to scunthorpe ? | |||
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"Yes it's hypothetical, as is Kiers plan to fund his Government as they're another two years off, and who knows where we'll be then as regards cost of living. It's the first election broadcast I've seen, it's still reasonable that if Corbyn were in and had gone down the route he'd planned (assuming what I've suggested is right), the cost of living would be pretty high. I agree .. there's a lot of maybes on spending over the pandemic, though they are only over the pandemic. The majority of any Corbyn spending would have been done pre pandemic. " Any global event of the magnitude of Covid was going to screw us all up financially, WW1, WW2, Global banking crash all did the same. It took us well over a decade to get a grip of the banking crash, Covid is going to take longer (and thats with crossed fingers a nastier strain or a flu pandemic doesnt happen) I saw the broadcast ... im a labour supporter and it was ... ummm ok, nothing to enthuse me. A better one would have just been clips of Boris saying 'what party' 'no party' 'its a gathering' 'lets perogue parliment' 'Owen Pattterson is a good guy lets change the rules' 'Ring of steel around care homes' '2 weeks to squash the sombraro' etc etc etc .... Boris is Labours biggest asset and as a Labour supporter I find that disheartening. | |||
"Thoughts? None whatsoever... it's as speculative (silly?) as asking what would have happened if the Germans had won WWII or if Martians were to land in Scunthorpe next week!you meen they havent have you been to scunthorpe ? " They didnt stay long, too desolate for them. | |||
"Sorry for the length .... I've just seen a Part Political Ad by the Labour Party and something came to me. Kier is proposing a VAT cut on energy bills to help with the cost of living, along with pensions protected through a windfall tax on oil and gas companies that have made billions in due to soaring prices. My thought here (happened to watch a Venezuela documentary where Gov controls food, water, etc despite it having the richest oil reserves in the world). If Corbyn had won the last election and water, gas, electricity, rail etc had been brought into public ownership as he wanted; the pandemic would still have happened, billions would still have been spent, supply bottlenecks would still have happened, and gas and electricity wholesale prices would still have gone up. So ... IF Corbyn would have been elected, as tax payers the Government would have had to increase prices (or go bust or turn the lights out) and we would have been paying those increased prices to them. This isn't taking into consideration the decline in revenue from rail, maintenance (across all sectors), staff absence, interest rate increases lessening any improvements etc. It would have meant they would all have to be profitable. Thoughts please?" Good thing about hypotheticals are they are hypothetical. good thing SKS is not Corbyn the clown. But leave you with this, SKS is far better than the current joke of a PM we have for the time being. | |||
"Sorry for the length .... I've just seen a Part Political Ad by the Labour Party and something came to me. Kier is proposing a VAT cut on energy bills to help with the cost of living, along with pensions protected through a windfall tax on oil and gas companies that have made billions in due to soaring prices. My thought here (happened to watch a Venezuela documentary where Gov controls food, water, etc despite it having the richest oil reserves in the world). If Corbyn had won the last election and water, gas, electricity, rail etc had been brought into public ownership as he wanted; the pandemic would still have happened, billions would still have been spent, supply bottlenecks would still have happened, and gas and electricity wholesale prices would still have gone up. So ... IF Corbyn would have been elected, as tax payers the Government would have had to increase prices (or go bust or turn the lights out) and we would have been paying those increased prices to them. This isn't taking into consideration the decline in revenue from rail, maintenance (across all sectors), staff absence, interest rate increases lessening any improvements etc. It would have meant they would all have to be profitable. Thoughts please? Good thing about hypotheticals are they are hypothetical. good thing SKS is not Corbyn the clown. But leave you with this, SKS is far better than the current joke of a PM we have for the time being. " But anything SKS might do is hypothetical.....  | |||
"Sorry for the length .... I've just seen a Part Political Ad by the Labour Party and something came to me. Kier is proposing a VAT cut on energy bills to help with the cost of living, along with pensions protected through a windfall tax on oil and gas companies that have made billions in due to soaring prices. My thought here (happened to watch a Venezuela documentary where Gov controls food, water, etc despite it having the richest oil reserves in the world). If Corbyn had won the last election and water, gas, electricity, rail etc had been brought into public ownership as he wanted; the pandemic would still have happened, billions would still have been spent, supply bottlenecks would still have happened, and gas and electricity wholesale prices would still have gone up. So ... IF Corbyn would have been elected, as tax payers the Government would have had to increase prices (or go bust or turn the lights out) and we would have been paying those increased prices to them. This isn't taking into consideration the decline in revenue from rail, maintenance (across all sectors), staff absence, interest rate increases lessening any improvements etc. It would have meant they would all have to be profitable. Thoughts please? Good thing about hypotheticals are they are hypothetical. good thing SKS is not Corbyn the clown. But leave you with this, SKS is far better than the current joke of a PM we have for the time being. But anything SKS might do is hypothetical..... "Tis true, proof is in the pudding. But from his engagement with people he looks more like a statesman, rather than a bumbling oaf. | |||
"Sorry for the length .... I've just seen a Part Political Ad by the Labour Party and something came to me. Kier is proposing a VAT cut on energy bills to help with the cost of living, along with pensions protected through a windfall tax on oil and gas companies that have made billions in due to soaring prices. My thought here (happened to watch a Venezuela documentary where Gov controls food, water, etc despite it having the richest oil reserves in the world). If Corbyn had won the last election and water, gas, electricity, rail etc had been brought into public ownership as he wanted; the pandemic would still have happened, billions would still have been spent, supply bottlenecks would still have happened, and gas and electricity wholesale prices would still have gone up. So ... IF Corbyn would have been elected, as tax payers the Government would have had to increase prices (or go bust or turn the lights out) and we would have been paying those increased prices to them. This isn't taking into consideration the decline in revenue from rail, maintenance (across all sectors), staff absence, interest rate increases lessening any improvements etc. It would have meant they would all have to be profitable. Thoughts please? Good thing about hypotheticals are they are hypothetical. good thing SKS is not Corbyn the clown. But leave you with this, SKS is far better than the current joke of a PM we have for the time being. But anything SKS might do is hypothetical.....
Tis true, proof is in the pudding. But from his engagement with people he looks more like a statesman, rather than a bumbling oaf."Well no, the proof of the pudding is in the eating | |||
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"In my lifetime, only two potential Prime Ministers had the ability to truly make massive changes to society. One did (Thatcher) because she got elected. The other one (Corbyn) didn’t get elected. But I think we all know that had he been elected, £billions of COVID money would not have been wasted on outsourced ‘health’ providers and instead the money would have gone directly into the NHS so that it was better funded in the pandemic and after it." This half answers it.. appreciate we can only go by those elected but thank you for taking my point that Corbyn was one who stood on a mandate for massive change. Just as a point .. billions were wasted, billions lost to fraud, but in the scheme of £440bn being spent, I doubt the odd billion here or there would dent the colossal amount the pandemic has took. | |||
"In my lifetime, only two potential Prime Ministers had the ability to truly make massive changes to society. One did (Thatcher) because she got elected. The other one (Corbyn) didn’t get elected. But I think we all know that had he been elected, £billions of COVID money would not have been wasted on outsourced ‘health’ providers and instead the money would have gone directly into the NHS so that it was better funded in the pandemic and after it. This half answers it.. appreciate we can only go by those elected but thank you for taking my point that Corbyn was one who stood on a mandate for massive change. Just as a point .. billions were wasted, billions lost to fraud, but in the scheme of £440bn being spent, I doubt the odd billion here or there would dent the colossal amount the pandemic has took. " Don’t forget that this Governments own OBR has predicted that the version of Brexit that Johnson has thrust upon us will have twice the negative impact of the pandemic on public finances. I doubt that Corbyn would have cost the country anything like what Johnson is setting us up for. | |||
"Yes it's hypothetical, as is Kiers plan to fund his Government as they're another two years off, and who knows where we'll be then as regards cost of living. It's the first election broadcast I've seen, it's still reasonable that if Corbyn were in and had gone down the route he'd planned (assuming what I've suggested is right), the cost of living would be pretty high. I agree .. there's a lot of maybes on spending over the pandemic, though they are only over the pandemic. The majority of any Corbyn spending would have been done pre pandemic. Any global event of the magnitude of Covid was going to screw us all up financially, WW1, WW2, Global banking crash all did the same. It took us well over a decade to get a grip of the banking crash, Covid is going to take longer (and thats with crossed fingers a nastier strain or a flu pandemic doesnt happen) I saw the broadcast ... im a labour supporter and it was ... ummm ok, nothing to enthuse me. A better one would have just been clips of Boris saying 'what party' 'no party' 'its a gathering' 'lets perogue parliment' 'Owen Pattterson is a good guy lets change the rules' 'Ring of steel around care homes' '2 weeks to squash the sombraro' etc etc etc .... Boris is Labours biggest asset and as a Labour supporter I find that disheartening." I couldn’t agree more | |||
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"Sorry for the length .... I've just seen a Part Political Ad by the Labour Party and something came to me. Kier is proposing a VAT cut on energy bills to help with the cost of living, along with pensions protected through a windfall tax on oil and gas companies that have made billions in due to soaring prices. My thought here (happened to watch a Venezuela documentary where Gov controls food, water, etc despite it having the richest oil reserves in the world). If Corbyn had won the last election and water, gas, electricity, rail etc had been brought into public ownership as he wanted; the pandemic would still have happened, billions would still have been spent, supply bottlenecks would still have happened, and gas and electricity wholesale prices would still have gone up. So ... IF Corbyn would have been elected, as tax payers the Government would have had to increase prices (or go bust or turn the lights out) and we would have been paying those increased prices to them. This isn't taking into consideration the decline in revenue from rail, maintenance (across all sectors), staff absence, interest rate increases lessening any improvements etc. It would have meant they would all have to be profitable. Thoughts please? Good thing about hypotheticals are they are hypothetical. good thing SKS is not Corbyn the clown. But leave you with this, SKS is far better than the current joke of a PM we have for the time being. But anything SKS might do is hypothetical.....
Tis true, proof is in the pudding. But from his engagement with people he looks more like a statesman, rather than a bumbling oaf.
Well no, the proof of the pudding is in the eating "And with the puddling provided by boris it tastes like shit. | |||
"I don’t understand the constant if Corbyn was in charge posts. The guy got his ass handed to him by Boris…….by Boris!!!!!! That says it all. It’s the same as Diane Abbot posts. They will never run the country either. It’s the here and now I worry about and it’s not a good look. " You know why these posts are popular, it’s called a “we might be shit, but it could be much more shitter” post, it’s a typical tactic used by some corners of the inter webs when supporters of a particular political inclination use it as a diversion to their own parties problems. It can be an effective method, but the fact is this, it doesn’t matter anymore, the direction of travel is now a forgone conclusion, nothing can really stop it, much to the consternation of those who think otherwise, the only option is to throw tropes and attempt to rally, but it is now falling on deaf ears, because people are seeing through it. | |||
"I don’t understand the constant if Corbyn was in charge posts. The guy got his ass handed to him by Boris…….by Boris!!!!!! That says it all. It’s the same as Diane Abbot posts. They will never run the country either. It’s the here and now I worry about and it’s not a good look. You know why these posts are popular, it’s called a “we might be shit, but it could be much more shitter” post, it’s a typical tactic used by some corners of the inter webs when supporters of a particular political inclination use it as a diversion to their own parties problems. It can be an effective method, but the fact is this, it doesn’t matter anymore, the direction of travel is now a forgone conclusion, nothing can really stop it, much to the consternation of those who think otherwise, the only option is to throw tropes and attempt to rally, but it is now falling on deaf ears, because people are seeing through it." Hoollllllld on . Is that aimed at me? | |||
"I don’t understand the constant if Corbyn was in charge posts. The guy got his ass handed to him by Boris…….by Boris!!!!!! That says it all. It’s the same as Diane Abbot posts. They will never run the country either. It’s the here and now I worry about and it’s not a good look. You know why these posts are popular, it’s called a “we might be shit, but it could be much more shitter” post, it’s a typical tactic used by some corners of the inter webs when supporters of a particular political inclination use it as a diversion to their own parties problems. It can be an effective method, but the fact is this, it doesn’t matter anymore, the direction of travel is now a forgone conclusion, nothing can really stop it, much to the consternation of those who think otherwise, the only option is to throw tropes and attempt to rally, but it is now falling on deaf ears, because people are seeing through it. Hoollllllld on . Is that aimed at me?" I meant posts in of this type, the what if ones. Not your specific post | |||
"I don’t understand the constant if Corbyn was in charge posts. The guy got his ass handed to him by Boris…….by Boris!!!!!! That says it all. It’s the same as Diane Abbot posts. They will never run the country either. It’s the here and now I worry about and it’s not a good look. You know why these posts are popular, it’s called a “we might be shit, but it could be much more shitter” post, it’s a typical tactic used by some corners of the inter webs when supporters of a particular political inclination use it as a diversion to their own parties problems. It can be an effective method, but the fact is this, it doesn’t matter anymore, the direction of travel is now a forgone conclusion, nothing can really stop it, much to the consternation of those who think otherwise, the only option is to throw tropes and attempt to rally, but it is now falling on deaf ears, because people are seeing through it. Hoollllllld on . Is that aimed at me? I meant posts in of this type, the what if ones. Not your specific post "Cheers as there was nothing behind the thread other than a recent vid I'd seen and to discuss/see if my thoughts were in any way right given present circumstances. 'What if's' may be seen as a waste of time but without looking at events we don't reflect on whether something would have been a good move or was well avoided. | |||
"Sorry for the length .... I've just seen a Part Political Ad by the Labour Party and something came to me. Kier is proposing a VAT cut on energy bills to help with the cost of living, along with pensions protected through a windfall tax on oil and gas companies that have made billions in due to soaring prices. My thought here (happened to watch a Venezuela documentary where Gov controls food, water, etc despite it having the richest oil reserves in the world). If Corbyn had won the last election and water, gas, electricity, rail etc had been brought into public ownership as he wanted; the pandemic would still have happened, billions would still have been spent, supply bottlenecks would still have happened, and gas and electricity wholesale prices would still have gone up. So ... IF Corbyn would have been elected, as tax payers the Government would have had to increase prices (or go bust or turn the lights out) and we would have been paying those increased prices to them. This isn't taking into consideration the decline in revenue from rail, maintenance (across all sectors), staff absence, interest rate increases lessening any improvements etc. It would have meant they would all have to be profitable. Thoughts please?" EDF is the French state owned power producer (The government have a controlling share). The French government have restricted the price increase to 4% so the company is taking the hit not the consumer. Admittedly it's an election year but what a vote winner. Imagine if a political party in this country advocated state ownership of our power producers? If there is a reluctance to include this in a manifesto then why? If the current Labour leadership won't embrace this obvious route to power we've really got to be asking who are they working for. You'd also have to look at other countries in Europe to see how they are coping with the increase especially those with state owned power generators. Also if Labour had won in 2019 I'm certain £37Bn wouldn't have disappeared on Test and Trace, or £4Bn on dodgy furlough payments or the others billions on useless PPE. That amount of money would have given the country a serious amount of wiggle room in the current crisis. | |||
"Sorry for the length .... I've just seen a Part Political Ad by the Labour Party and something came to me. Kier is proposing a VAT cut on energy bills to help with the cost of living, along with pensions protected through a windfall tax on oil and gas companies that have made billions in due to soaring prices. My thought here (happened to watch a Venezuela documentary where Gov controls food, water, etc despite it having the richest oil reserves in the world). If Corbyn had won the last election and water, gas, electricity, rail etc had been brought into public ownership as he wanted; the pandemic would still have happened, billions would still have been spent, supply bottlenecks would still have happened, and gas and electricity wholesale prices would still have gone up. So ... IF Corbyn would have been elected, as tax payers the Government would have had to increase prices (or go bust or turn the lights out) and we would have been paying those increased prices to them. This isn't taking into consideration the decline in revenue from rail, maintenance (across all sectors), staff absence, interest rate increases lessening any improvements etc. It would have meant they would all have to be profitable. Thoughts please? EDF is the French state owned power producer (The government have a controlling share). The French government have restricted the price increase to 4% so the company is taking the hit not the consumer. Admittedly it's an election year but what a vote winner. Imagine if a political party in this country advocated state ownership of our power producers? If there is a reluctance to include this in a manifesto then why? If the current Labour leadership won't embrace this obvious route to power we've really got to be asking who are they working for. You'd also have to look at other countries in Europe to see how they are coping with the increase especially those with state owned power generators. Also if Labour had won in 2019 I'm certain £37Bn wouldn't have disappeared on Test and Trace, or £4Bn on dodgy furlough payments or the others billions on useless PPE. That amount of money would have given the country a serious amount of wiggle room in the current crisis." It'd be interesting to know how other countries state run utilities are fairing. Re. EDF you're referring to this - a Euro 8.4bn hit due to a cap. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jan/14/france-edf-cap-household-energy-bills Though as you say EDF's main backer is the French Gov, that doesn't mean it is state owned as it still has shareholders. As you say the company takes the hit through loans and is still able to raise capital. This is a good example of what I'm talking about. If EDF were state owned it would be the French Gov needing to find that money and as a result the tax payer, who are already struggling financially. Now x that up by the number of companies Corbyn planned on nationalising - they would have all needed to be profitable or at minimum very well run. | |||
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"The English people seem to be far too keen on royalty and posh boy politicians to ever vote for a socialist. You will have a better chance after Scotland leaves and frees England from the shackles of the UK. " Didn't Corbyn win one of the greatest number of seats ever seen in Labours history? Corbyn's downfall wasn't socialism, I'd say it was largely his Brexit stance or lack of as he largely avoided it. | |||
"The English people seem to be far too keen on royalty and posh boy politicians to ever vote for a socialist. You will have a better chance after Scotland leaves and frees England from the shackles of the UK. " I agree wee nicola should let the English vote in her next referendum im sure she will get a majority then. | |||
"In my lifetime, only two potential Prime Ministers had the ability to truly make massive changes to society. One did (Thatcher) because she got elected. The other one (Corbyn) didn’t get elected. But I think we all know that had he been elected, £billions of COVID money would not have been wasted on outsourced ‘health’ providers and instead the money would have gone directly into the NHS so that it was better funded in the pandemic and after it. This half answers it.. appreciate we can only go by those elected but thank you for taking my point that Corbyn was one who stood on a mandate for massive change. Just as a point .. billions were wasted, billions lost to fraud, but in the scheme of £440bn being spent, I doubt the odd billion here or there would dent the colossal amount the pandemic has took. " Hmmm sorry cannot let that be handwaved away! The Dept Health & Social Care annual report listed a loss of £8bn to unusable PPE with ongoing storage costs in the £millions (sure you don’t need reminding where this PPE came from or the VIP procurement lane for Tory mates/donors/family with no due diligence etc right?) Sunak and HMRC have decided to “write off” over £4bn in Covid support fraud (due to a lack of due diligence, oh and pure coincidence that two companies run by Mrs Sunak went “bust” despite receiving c.£600m in support that is now unrecoverable). £8bn + £4bn = £12bn which is miraculously the same amount that will be raised by the National Insurance hike. Guess it is easy to dismiss a simple word like “billion” but that is... £12,000,000,000 | |||
"In my lifetime, only two potential Prime Ministers had the ability to truly make massive changes to society. One did (Thatcher) because she got elected. The other one (Corbyn) didn’t get elected. But I think we all know that had he been elected, £billions of COVID money would not have been wasted on outsourced ‘health’ providers and instead the money would have gone directly into the NHS so that it was better funded in the pandemic and after it. This half answers it.. appreciate we can only go by those elected but thank you for taking my point that Corbyn was one who stood on a mandate for massive change. Just as a point .. billions were wasted, billions lost to fraud, but in the scheme of £440bn being spent, I doubt the odd billion here or there would dent the colossal amount the pandemic has took. Hmmm sorry cannot let that be handwaved away! The Dept Health & Social Care annual report listed a loss of £8bn to unusable PPE with ongoing storage costs in the £millions (sure you don’t need reminding where this PPE came from or the VIP procurement lane for Tory mates/donors/family with no due diligence etc right?) Sunak and HMRC have decided to “write off” over £4bn in Covid support fraud (due to a lack of due diligence, oh and pure coincidence that two companies run by Mrs Sunak went “bust” despite receiving c.£600m in support that is now unrecoverable). £8bn + £4bn = £12bn which is miraculously the same amount that will be raised by the National Insurance hike. Guess it is easy to dismiss a simple word like “billion” but that is... £12,000,000,000 " Just to go back to my original point then. Last year alone there have been around 30 electricity companies gone bust (I don't know if they received Gov support or not). If the Gov had bought utility co's, it would lend to the idea we would be on the hook to bail the Gov out as they would not be able to pay the increased price per therm/kWh. This is my point. You say I'm handwaving, I am not, I'm just trying to focus the thread. Value for money is the topic of the tread. We will be given credit to cover the cost of energy (£200 though paid back over 4yrs) - this will be cancelled out by The Nat Ins increase in April - if they raise any money from the Nat Ins increase it'll be negligible or very long term which I suppose is what the social care bill is. | |||
" It'd be interesting to know how other countries state run utilities are fairing. Re. EDF you're referring to this - a Euro 8.4bn hit due to a cap. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jan/14/france-edf-cap-household-energy-bills Though as you say EDF's main backer is the French Gov, that doesn't mean it is state owned as it still has shareholders. As you say the company takes the hit through loans and is still able to raise capital. This is a good example of what I'm talking about. If EDF were state owned it would be the French Gov needing to find that money and as a result the tax payer, who are already struggling financially. Now x that up by the number of companies Corbyn planned on nationalising - they would have all needed to be profitable or at minimum very well run. " All the companies that have been privatised are profitable (apart from some rail franchises)or they would collapse. EDF, as I said, is majority state owned. The French government owns 85% so for all intents and purposes yes they are providing the capital to bail out the consumers. From a bit of researched it looks like EDF made €4.7bn net profits last year. Norway has state owned North Sea Gas. Thatcher sold ours to her friends. In 2019 Norway exported $52.6bn worth of gas/oil but it has since declined to $11.9bn in 2020. That's exports not gas sold in their own country. I'd imagine this year will be breaking some records. Their gas is used by their consumers first and then the remainder is sold on the open market. Our gas goes straight onto the open market to the highest bidder. Any profits they make are plouged back into the Country. There's talk of fracking being a solution "We can make our own gas". Nope we tried that with North Sea Gas and sold it to the private sector and that's what will happen with fracking as well. Companies care about profits not the Country where they mine the resources. The railway companies now receive more money from the government to run trains in real terms than BR ever did yet we have one of the worst and expensive services in Europe and if a franchise fails the government pick up the tab. One of the reasons water was privatised was to allow major capital investment projects to be financed from the private sector rather than the government but they have spent any money they've made on shareholders and we now have shit in our rivers due to under investment. We used to have nationwide gas storage facilities where gas bought when the prices were low could be stored and used when the market fluctuated to avoid where we are now. This was deemed too expensive to maintain by the energy companies who lobbied the government to be able to close them to reduce fixed costs, which they did. Yes this would have been a bad time to privatise the power supply industry but it will survive I guess we just need to watch this space and see if EDF go under. | |||
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"All you have to know is that things would have been a whole lot worse - Labour always ends in disaster " Presumably you are a grown adult with a fully functioning brain. On what grounds do you make that statement when as a matter of ideological fact, Labour would have given money to expand the NHS rather than bung it to Serco, Dido Harding and others. It is also highly doubtful that they would have awarded Covid contracts to donors rather than via a tender process. Johnson has failed at every level since he became PM and people are just accepting the sleaze, the corruption, the monstrous losses and STILL the NHS itself is underfunded… because…. Someone somewhere said - “Labour would have been worse” without applying a single brain cell to the justification of the statement. It astonishes me just how easily, seemingly grown up, adult spoke can be played. Andy Burnham was right on the money last night on QT and he outed the Tory MP and the Tory tactics for what they were. Propaganda. | |||
"All you have to know is that things would have been a whole lot worse - Labour always ends in disaster Presumably you are a grown adult with a fully functioning brain. On what grounds do you make that statement when as a matter of ideological fact, Labour would have given money to expand the NHS rather than bung it to Serco, Dido Harding and others. It is also highly doubtful that they would have awarded Covid contracts to donors rather than via a tender process. Johnson has failed at every level since he became PM and people are just accepting the sleaze, the corruption, the monstrous losses and STILL the NHS itself is underfunded… because…. Someone somewhere said - “Labour would have been worse” without applying a single brain cell to the justification of the statement. It astonishes me just how easily, seemingly grown up, adult spoke can be played. Andy Burnham was right on the money last night on QT and he outed the Tory MP and the Tory tactics for what they were. Propaganda." How far would the uk have been down the line securing ppe while these contracts had been put out to tender for a start? | |||
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"I would judge Jeremy Corbyn based on the fact that he was incapable of managing his own finances. He had to downsize his house in order to pay off some of his debt. Imagine the consequences if he was handling public money . The Unite unions new hotel is a good case in point. They spent £100 million pounds constructing it and the current valuation is circa 30 million. With PPE we had to compete on the world market and get a supplies ASAP. Lives had to be saved regardless of the cost. To those who think the process could have been more efficient , how many people were you prepared to let die in order to save money. ? It is very easy to make the correct decision with the benefit of hindsight. " This is ridiculous. This has to be a pisstake. Are you suggesting that the Tories giving over 20 billion quid to their mates for largely faulty PPE, was in some way beneficial to the country? Surely no one actually thinks this!? | |||
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"Sorry for the length .... I've just seen a Part Political Ad by the Labour Party and something came to me. Kier is proposing a VAT cut on energy bills to help with the cost of living, along with pensions protected through a windfall tax on oil and gas companies that have made billions in due to soaring prices. My thought here (happened to watch a Venezuela documentary where Gov controls food, water, etc despite it having the richest oil reserves in the world). If Corbyn had won the last election and water, gas, electricity, rail etc had been brought into public ownership as he wanted; the pandemic would still have happened, billions would still have been spent, supply bottlenecks would still have happened, and gas and electricity wholesale prices would still have gone up. So ... IF Corbyn would have been elected, as tax payers the Government would have had to increase prices (or go bust or turn the lights out) and we would have been paying those increased prices to them. This isn't taking into consideration the decline in revenue from rail, maintenance (across all sectors), staff absence, interest rate increases lessening any improvements etc. It would have meant they would all have to be profitable. Thoughts please?" If Corbyn had been elected, he wouldn't have lasted this long. The utility companies can't simply be brought into public ownership on a whim. You're talking about firms like EDF, owned largely by the French state, in addition to all the other firms. It is sheer fantasy to suggest this could all have occured within 5 years, let alone from December 2019 to now. As for Venezuela, that really is a shocking example given the sanctions they have undergone, rightly or wrongly. It isn't really a credible comparison. In addition to that, I doubt a Prime Minister as deeply as unpopular as Corbyn would have been simply wouldn't have lasted. Him being opaque about his vaccination status wouldn't be sustainable and nor would his attitude towards Russia. Labour's cack-handed approach to the poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal was bad enough but having him as Prime Minister with Russia continuing to defy international law in Eastern Europe would've meant he would've had to go. The Parliamentary Labour Party would've forced him out and they'd have made a much better job of it than in 2016. In hindsight, I'm not angry Labour tried to oust him in 2016, I only wish they had succeeded. As for what would've been happening under a Corbyn premiership, I find it difficult to believe the pandemic could have been handled worse. We had the Prime Minister telling the country he shook hands with covid patients before consigning the country into lockdown because attempts to avoid it were futile from the start. While I have my reservations about Corbyn, I very much doubt he'd have managed to do that. Add into all this mix that if Corbyn had won, we'd have been having the same arguments about brexit because Labour would be trying to negotiate a new brexit deal in the pandemic. While it would undoubtedly have been bad, it would likely have been less harmful economically. However, it would still see most of the party against it. Brexit under Labour wouldn't be 'proper brexit' to the Tory right and would be bad in the eyes of the pro-Europeans in Labour. Some of the blame on that should fall on the door of Starmer of course but it wouldn't have mattered what Labour had promised in 2016. Johnson promised the country the arguments we'd been having for 3 years would be over and brexit would be put to bed. Labour couldn't promise that in good faith. If Corbyn had been elected, he wouldn't have lasted this long. A much more pertinent question then, is surely who replaces Johnson? Or, if he defies the odds once again and clings on until the next GE, is Starmer really up to it? | |||
"Thoughts? None whatsoever... it's as speculative (silly?) as asking what would have happened if the Germans had won WWII or if Martians were to land in Scunthorpe next week!" NATO and Trident would have been dismantled. Would have thought Putin would have pushed for Corbyn for PM or was Brexit and the fracturing Europe more important to Russia, so he backed Boris instead? | |||
"I would judge Jeremy Corbyn based on the fact that he was incapable of managing his own finances. He had to downsize his house in order to pay off some of his debt. Imagine the consequences if he was handling public money . The Unite unions new hotel is a good case in point. They spent £100 million pounds constructing it and the current valuation is circa 30 million. With PPE we had to compete on the world market and get a supplies ASAP. Lives had to be saved regardless of the cost. To those who think the process could have been more efficient , how many people were you prepared to let die in order to save money. ? It is very easy to make the correct decision with the benefit of hindsight. " Sorry but you clearly don’t understand what happened. Numerous British companies with appropriate credentials and a substantial track record in PPE and/other medical supplies were ignored while those on the Tory VIP fast track lane were given preference. They had a hugely significantly higher chance of contract award than anyone else. These includes “companies” that were set up on the fly, dormant companies with no assets, countless companies with no specialist or relevant experience, almost universally registered off shore, and all charging hugely inflated costs with many not delivering against the actual spec and yet it appears no recourse to claim back the money! One if the biggest cons in history, don’t try to defend it! | |||
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"I would judge Jeremy Corbyn based on the fact that he was incapable of managing his own finances. He had to downsize his house in order to pay off some of his debt. Imagine the consequences if he was handling public money . The Unite unions new hotel is a good case in point. They spent £100 million pounds constructing it and the current valuation is circa 30 million. With PPE we had to compete on the world market and get a supplies ASAP. Lives had to be saved regardless of the cost. To those who think the process could have been more efficient , how many people were you prepared to let die in order to save money. ? It is very easy to make the correct decision with the benefit of hindsight. Sorry but you clearly don’t understand what happened. Numerous British companies with appropriate credentials and a substantial track record in PPE and/other medical supplies were ignored while those on the Tory VIP fast track lane were given preference. They had a hugely significantly higher chance of contract award than anyone else. These includes “companies” that were set up on the fly, dormant companies with no assets, countless companies with no specialist or relevant experience, almost universally registered off shore, and all charging hugely inflated costs with many not delivering against the actual spec and yet it appears no recourse to claim back the money! One if the biggest cons in history, don’t try to defend it!" . In a time of national crisis, you can hardly say we will wait six months unto prices drop and in meantime we will just let people die because we consider PPE to be too expensive. We were competing in the world market and had no choice but to pay the going rate. An investigation into one company on the VIP lane concluded that they would have been awarded the contract regardless of whether it existed . In addition apart from obtaining a contract, you also have to ensure that you are paid . This would involve processing various payments through the governments payment process which is administered by civil servants and independent of the government. In a crisis saving lives is more important than cost. We could all make the correct decisions with the benefit of hindsight. | |||
"I would judge Jeremy Corbyn based on the fact that he was incapable of managing his own finances. He had to downsize his house in order to pay off some of his debt. Imagine the consequences if he was handling public money . The Unite unions new hotel is a good case in point. They spent £100 million pounds constructing it and the current valuation is circa 30 million. With PPE we had to compete on the world market and get a supplies ASAP. Lives had to be saved regardless of the cost. To those who think the process could have been more efficient , how many people were you prepared to let die in order to save money. ? It is very easy to make the correct decision with the benefit of hindsight. Sorry but you clearly don’t understand what happened. Numerous British companies with appropriate credentials and a substantial track record in PPE and/other medical supplies were ignored while those on the Tory VIP fast track lane were given preference. They had a hugely significantly higher chance of contract award than anyone else. These includes “companies” that were set up on the fly, dormant companies with no assets, countless companies with no specialist or relevant experience, almost universally registered off shore, and all charging hugely inflated costs with many not delivering against the actual spec and yet it appears no recourse to claim back the money! One if the biggest cons in history, don’t try to defend it!. In a time of national crisis, you can hardly say we will wait six months unto prices drop and in meantime we will just let people die because we consider PPE to be too expensive. We were competing in the world market and had no choice but to pay the going rate. An investigation into one company on the VIP lane concluded that they would have been awarded the contract regardless of whether it existed . In addition apart from obtaining a contract, you also have to ensure that you are paid . This would involve processing various payments through the governments payment process which is administered by civil servants and independent of the government. In a crisis saving lives is more important than cost. We could all make the correct decisions with the benefit of hindsight. " Is this account a Russian bot? | |||
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Seems that at the moment the uk is at the mercy of the whims of the likes of putin and the Saudis | |||
"So does anyone think that if labour for in they would see sense and start using the natural resources that we have in the uk ? You know shale gas and the oil instead of wasting time on buying it in ? And I don’t mean getting some foreign companies but our own to do it there’s something like over a trillion £’s in the ground just sitting there meanwhile people are crippled by energy prices supplied from abroad
Seems that at the moment the uk is at the mercy of the whims of the likes of putin and the Saudis "Near exactly where I was getting at. And the more developed debate than corbyn was this/that/brexit the other that I was hoping to get. If the co's were taken into pub ownership, why wouldn't environmental concerns have been put on the agenda .. all a bit relic of history, cost, cost, we here now I suppose.. cheers | |||
"So does anyone think that if labour for in they would see sense and start using the natural resources that we have in the uk ? You know shale gas and the oil instead of wasting time on buying it in ? And I don’t mean getting some foreign companies but our own to do it there’s something like over a trillion £’s in the ground just sitting there meanwhile people are crippled by energy prices supplied from abroad
Seems that at the moment the uk is at the mercy of the whims of the likes of putin and the Saudis
Near exactly where I was getting at. And the more developed debate than corbyn was this/that/brexit the other that I was hoping to get.
If the co's were taken into pub ownership, why wouldn't environmental concerns have been put on the agenda .. all a bit relic of history, cost, cost, we here now I suppose..
cheers
"Yes and the resulting profit’s could be used to fund not only the shortfalls in things like social care housing along with the green options while in the short term as well as revenue for the country. Not managed by bloated CEO’s but people who are accountable to the country not the shareholders. Public utilities should not be in the hands of private companies full stop. | |||
" Is this account a Russian bot? " No, much like many Conservative voters they are so deep in denial about corruption in the Tories that they begin to believe their own lies. They can't accept that their vote has seriously fucked up our country for decades. | |||
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" Is this account a Russian bot? No, much like many Conservative voters they are so deep in denial about corruption in the Tories that they begin to believe their own lies. They can't accept that their vote has seriously fucked up our country for decades." Usually I agree. But this bot/person posts the most outlandish nonsense I've ever read. | |||
"I would judge Jeremy Corbyn based on the fact that he was incapable of managing his own finances. He had to downsize his house in order to pay off some of his debt. Imagine the consequences if he was handling public money . The Unite unions new hotel is a good case in point. They spent £100 million pounds constructing it and the current valuation is circa 30 million. With PPE we had to compete on the world market and get a supplies ASAP. Lives had to be saved regardless of the cost. To those who think the process could have been more efficient , how many people were you prepared to let die in order to save money. ? It is very easy to make the correct decision with the benefit of hindsight. Sorry but you clearly don’t understand what happened. Numerous British companies with appropriate credentials and a substantial track record in PPE and/other medical supplies were ignored while those on the Tory VIP fast track lane were given preference. They had a hugely significantly higher chance of contract award than anyone else. These includes “companies” that were set up on the fly, dormant companies with no assets, countless companies with no specialist or relevant experience, almost universally registered off shore, and all charging hugely inflated costs with many not delivering against the actual spec and yet it appears no recourse to claim back the money! One if the biggest cons in history, don’t try to defend it!. In a time of national crisis, you can hardly say we will wait six months unto prices drop and in meantime we will just let people die because we consider PPE to be too expensive. We were competing in the world market and had no choice but to pay the going rate. An investigation into one company on the VIP lane concluded that they would have been awarded the contract regardless of whether it existed . In addition apart from obtaining a contract, you also have to ensure that you are paid . This would involve processing various payments through the governments payment process which is administered by civil servants and independent of the government. In a crisis saving lives is more important than cost. We could all make the correct decisions with the benefit of hindsight. " Aa I said you clearly know nothing (or very little) about Govt procurement and you have underlined this further with that latest post. “Nearly 60% of the PPE procured from firms linked to the UK (Tory) government was unusable – sparking fresh questions about the controversial ‘VIP’ lane” It wasn’t purchased “at the going rate” it was at vastly inflated rates with the addition of multi million £ finders fees. You cite ONE company from the VIP lane. ONE! Of course some would have been legit. Many many more were not. This was corruption of the highest order. Do some research into Tory Peer Michelle Mone... https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/06/tory-peer-michelle-mone-involved-ppe-medpro-government-contracts Stop trying to defend the indefensible. The British public have been stolen from to the tune of £billions. | |||
"I would judge Jeremy Corbyn based on the fact that he was incapable of managing his own finances. He had to downsize his house in order to pay off some of his debt. Imagine the consequences if he was handling public money . The Unite unions new hotel is a good case in point. They spent £100 million pounds constructing it and the current valuation is circa 30 million. With PPE we had to compete on the world market and get a supplies ASAP. Lives had to be saved regardless of the cost. To those who think the process could have been more efficient , how many people were you prepared to let die in order to save money. ? It is very easy to make the correct decision with the benefit of hindsight. Sorry but you clearly don’t understand what happened. Numerous British companies with appropriate credentials and a substantial track record in PPE and/other medical supplies were ignored while those on the Tory VIP fast track lane were given preference. They had a hugely significantly higher chance of contract award than anyone else. These includes “companies” that were set up on the fly, dormant companies with no assets, countless companies with no specialist or relevant experience, almost universally registered off shore, and all charging hugely inflated costs with many not delivering against the actual spec and yet it appears no recourse to claim back the money! One if the biggest cons in history, don’t try to defend it!. In a time of national crisis, you can hardly say we will wait six months unto prices drop and in meantime we will just let people die because we consider PPE to be too expensive. We were competing in the world market and had no choice but to pay the going rate. An investigation into one company on the VIP lane concluded that they would have been awarded the contract regardless of whether it existed . In addition apart from obtaining a contract, you also have to ensure that you are paid . This would involve processing various payments through the governments payment process which is administered by civil servants and independent of the government. In a crisis saving lives is more important than cost. We could all make the correct decisions with the benefit of hindsight. Aa I said you clearly know nothing (or very little) about Govt procurement and you have underlined this further with that latest post. “Nearly 60% of the PPE procured from firms linked to the UK (Tory) government was unusable – sparking fresh questions about the controversial ‘VIP’ lane” It wasn’t purchased “at the going rate” it was at vastly inflated rates with the addition of multi million £ finders fees. You cite ONE company from the VIP lane. ONE! Of course some would have been legit. Many many more were not. This was corruption of the highest order. Do some research into Tory Peer Michelle Mone... https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/06/tory-peer-michelle-mone-involved-ppe-medpro-government-contracts Stop trying to defend the indefensible. The British public have been stolen from to the tune of £billions." The figures which you quote are very different to that from the Department of Health . Their unusable figure is 3 % The Department of Health said only about 3% of PPE purchased cannot be used because it is not fit for any purpose. A spokesman said: “Our absolute priority throughout this unprecedented global pandemic has always been saving lives. “In a highly competitive global market where many countries imposed export bans, we acted swiftly to obtain 30,000 ventilators by the end of June 2020 and we have delivered over 17.5 billion items of PPE to the front line, with 97% of PPE we ordered being suitable for use. “The supply of these vital items helped keep our NHS open at a moment of national crisis to deliver a world-class service to the public. We are seeking to recover costs from suppliers wherever possible.” | |||
"I would judge Jeremy Corbyn based on the fact that he was incapable of managing his own finances. He had to downsize his house in order to pay off some of his debt. Imagine the consequences if he was handling public money . The Unite unions new hotel is a good case in point. They spent £100 million pounds constructing it and the current valuation is circa 30 million. With PPE we had to compete on the world market and get a supplies ASAP. Lives had to be saved regardless of the cost. To those who think the process could have been more efficient , how many people were you prepared to let die in order to save money. ? It is very easy to make the correct decision with the benefit of hindsight. Sorry but you clearly don’t understand what happened. Numerous British companies with appropriate credentials and a substantial track record in PPE and/other medical supplies were ignored while those on the Tory VIP fast track lane were given preference. They had a hugely significantly higher chance of contract award than anyone else. These includes “companies” that were set up on the fly, dormant companies with no assets, countless companies with no specialist or relevant experience, almost universally registered off shore, and all charging hugely inflated costs with many not delivering against the actual spec and yet it appears no recourse to claim back the money! One if the biggest cons in history, don’t try to defend it!. In a time of national crisis, you can hardly say we will wait six months unto prices drop and in meantime we will just let people die because we consider PPE to be too expensive. We were competing in the world market and had no choice but to pay the going rate. An investigation into one company on the VIP lane concluded that they would have been awarded the contract regardless of whether it existed . In addition apart from obtaining a contract, you also have to ensure that you are paid . This would involve processing various payments through the governments payment process which is administered by civil servants and independent of the government. In a crisis saving lives is more important than cost. We could all make the correct decisions with the benefit of hindsight. Aa I said you clearly know nothing (or very little) about Govt procurement and you have underlined this further with that latest post. “Nearly 60% of the PPE procured from firms linked to the UK (Tory) government was unusable – sparking fresh questions about the controversial ‘VIP’ lane” It wasn’t purchased “at the going rate” it was at vastly inflated rates with the addition of multi million £ finders fees. You cite ONE company from the VIP lane. ONE! Of course some would have been legit. Many many more were not. This was corruption of the highest order. Do some research into Tory Peer Michelle Mone... https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/06/tory-peer-michelle-mone-involved-ppe-medpro-government-contracts Stop trying to defend the indefensible. The British public have been stolen from to the tune of £billions. The figures which you quote are very different to that from the Department of Health . Their unusable figure is 3 % The Department of Health said only about 3% of PPE purchased cannot be used because it is not fit for any purpose. A spokesman said: “Our absolute priority throughout this unprecedented global pandemic has always been saving lives. “In a highly competitive global market where many countries imposed export bans, we acted swiftly to obtain 30,000 ventilators by the end of June 2020 and we have delivered over 17.5 billion items of PPE to the front line, with 97% of PPE we ordered being suitable for use. “The supply of these vital items helped keep our NHS open at a moment of national crisis to deliver a world-class service to the public. We are seeking to recover costs from suppliers wherever possible.” " Lolz Just so weird! | |||
"I would judge Jeremy Corbyn based on the fact that he was incapable of managing his own finances. He had to downsize his house in order to pay off some of his debt. Imagine the consequences if he was handling public money . The Unite unions new hotel is a good case in point. They spent £100 million pounds constructing it and the current valuation is circa 30 million. With PPE we had to compete on the world market and get a supplies ASAP. Lives had to be saved regardless of the cost. To those who think the process could have been more efficient , how many people were you prepared to let die in order to save money. ? It is very easy to make the correct decision with the benefit of hindsight. Sorry but you clearly don’t understand what happened. Numerous British companies with appropriate credentials and a substantial track record in PPE and/other medical supplies were ignored while those on the Tory VIP fast track lane were given preference. They had a hugely significantly higher chance of contract award than anyone else. These includes “companies” that were set up on the fly, dormant companies with no assets, countless companies with no specialist or relevant experience, almost universally registered off shore, and all charging hugely inflated costs with many not delivering against the actual spec and yet it appears no recourse to claim back the money! One if the biggest cons in history, don’t try to defend it!. In a time of national crisis, you can hardly say we will wait six months unto prices drop and in meantime we will just let people die because we consider PPE to be too expensive. We were competing in the world market and had no choice but to pay the going rate. An investigation into one company on the VIP lane concluded that they would have been awarded the contract regardless of whether it existed . In addition apart from obtaining a contract, you also have to ensure that you are paid . This would involve processing various payments through the governments payment process which is administered by civil servants and independent of the government. In a crisis saving lives is more important than cost. We could all make the correct decisions with the benefit of hindsight. Aa I said you clearly know nothing (or very little) about Govt procurement and you have underlined this further with that latest post. “Nearly 60% of the PPE procured from firms linked to the UK (Tory) government was unusable – sparking fresh questions about the controversial ‘VIP’ lane” It wasn’t purchased “at the going rate” it was at vastly inflated rates with the addition of multi million £ finders fees. You cite ONE company from the VIP lane. ONE! Of course some would have been legit. Many many more were not. This was corruption of the highest order. Do some research into Tory Peer Michelle Mone... https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/06/tory-peer-michelle-mone-involved-ppe-medpro-government-contracts Stop trying to defend the indefensible. The British public have been stolen from to the tune of £billions. The figures which you quote are very different to that from the Department of Health . Their unusable figure is 3 % The Department of Health said only about 3% of PPE purchased cannot be used because it is not fit for any purpose. A spokesman said: “Our absolute priority throughout this unprecedented global pandemic has always been saving lives. “In a highly competitive global market where many countries imposed export bans, we acted swiftly to obtain 30,000 ventilators by the end of June 2020 and we have delivered over 17.5 billion items of PPE to the front line, with 97% of PPE we ordered being suitable for use. “The supply of these vital items helped keep our NHS open at a moment of national crisis to deliver a world-class service to the public. We are seeking to recover costs from suppliers wherever possible.” Lolz Just so weird!" What’s weird?? | |||
"I would judge Jeremy Corbyn based on the fact that he was incapable of managing his own finances. He had to downsize his house in order to pay off some of his debt. Imagine the consequences if he was handling public money . The Unite unions new hotel is a good case in point. They spent £100 million pounds constructing it and the current valuation is circa 30 million. With PPE we had to compete on the world market and get a supplies ASAP. Lives had to be saved regardless of the cost. To those who think the process could have been more efficient , how many people were you prepared to let die in order to save money. ? It is very easy to make the correct decision with the benefit of hindsight. Sorry but you clearly don’t understand what happened. Numerous British companies with appropriate credentials and a substantial track record in PPE and/other medical supplies were ignored while those on the Tory VIP fast track lane were given preference. They had a hugely significantly higher chance of contract award than anyone else. These includes “companies” that were set up on the fly, dormant companies with no assets, countless companies with no specialist or relevant experience, almost universally registered off shore, and all charging hugely inflated costs with many not delivering against the actual spec and yet it appears no recourse to claim back the money! One if the biggest cons in history, don’t try to defend it!. In a time of national crisis, you can hardly say we will wait six months unto prices drop and in meantime we will just let people die because we consider PPE to be too expensive. We were competing in the world market and had no choice but to pay the going rate. An investigation into one company on the VIP lane concluded that they would have been awarded the contract regardless of whether it existed . In addition apart from obtaining a contract, you also have to ensure that you are paid . This would involve processing various payments through the governments payment process which is administered by civil servants and independent of the government. In a crisis saving lives is more important than cost. We could all make the correct decisions with the benefit of hindsight. Aa I said you clearly know nothing (or very little) about Govt procurement and you have underlined this further with that latest post. “Nearly 60% of the PPE procured from firms linked to the UK (Tory) government was unusable – sparking fresh questions about the controversial ‘VIP’ lane” It wasn’t purchased “at the going rate” it was at vastly inflated rates with the addition of multi million £ finders fees. You cite ONE company from the VIP lane. ONE! Of course some would have been legit. Many many more were not. This was corruption of the highest order. Do some research into Tory Peer Michelle Mone... https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/06/tory-peer-michelle-mone-involved-ppe-medpro-government-contracts Stop trying to defend the indefensible. The British public have been stolen from to the tune of £billions. The figures which you quote are very different to that from the Department of Health . Their unusable figure is 3 % The Department of Health said only about 3% of PPE purchased cannot be used because it is not fit for any purpose. A spokesman said: “Our absolute priority throughout this unprecedented global pandemic has always been saving lives. “In a highly competitive global market where many countries imposed export bans, we acted swiftly to obtain 30,000 ventilators by the end of June 2020 and we have delivered over 17.5 billion items of PPE to the front line, with 97% of PPE we ordered being suitable for use. “The supply of these vital items helped keep our NHS open at a moment of national crisis to deliver a world-class service to the public. We are seeking to recover costs from suppliers wherever possible.” Lolz Just so weird! What’s weird?? " All of it. It's a mix of quotes from unknown sources, bizarre nonsensical opinion, designed to justify the Tories using the pandemic to make their donors and friends rich while British people died. This person seems to post this a lot. Or copy and paste from various anti-British websites. | |||
"Thats a nice long hypothetical ... but the assumption that taxpayers would be picking up the cost of gas prices etc is of course dependent on that a Corbyn Govmnt would have done. Maybe it would have re-opened the Rough Gas Storage which the Tories refused to subsidise. That would have bought some leway in gas prices the customer pays instead of being dependent on the global market. A few billion there Maybe it wouldnt have scrapped the stored PPE supplies the govmnt had in storage for pre-pandemic planning and instead of wasting Billions that money could have been used to cushion the cost of living increase. A few billion there Maybe they wouldnt have 'loaned' every domestic energy bill payer £200 and instead taxed the obscene profits the Energy companies have been made and 'given' a rebate rather than loan one. A few billion there Maybe they wouldnt have wasted .. what was it 12 Billion on a 'new test and trace service' run by a mates wife and instead sipported local public health services who know their populations better. Still would have needed money but id hazard a guess not the amounts the failed 'test and trace' did. Lets be generous and call it 100's million They are just a few things of the top of my head ... it adds up to a lot which we havent and wont get but could have if things were done better both ideoligicaly and repsonsibly. All hypothetical of course" Re-open what rough gas storage? They went years ago? If they still existed fill them with what? Gas at world market prices? What stored PPE supplies? The ones we have never ever had? Under any government? They have use by dates so storage of masses of them never is and never was practical...for anyone. They could have given everyone a couple of hundred quid from Corbyn's magic money tree? A windfall tax on energy companies profits...? 3/4 of energy companies have gone bust already! Maybe you mean energy producers? Oil companies? Great idea on paper...but the profits go to shareholders....as in pension companies...yours and my pensions...ordinary people...taxpayers! All I can say is despite Boris and Tories getting so much wrong...and they have! God help us if Corbyn, Abbot, Trotsky McDonald and white van man Thornbury had been in charge....and Tom Watson....jeez we would have been up that creek good style! | |||
"Sorry for the length .... I've just seen a Part Political Ad by the Labour Party and something came to me. Kier is proposing a VAT cut on energy bills to help with the cost of living, along with pensions protected through a windfall tax on oil and gas companies that have made billions in due to soaring prices. My thought here (happened to watch a Venezuela documentary where Gov controls food, water, etc despite it having the richest oil reserves in the world). If Corbyn had won the last election and water, gas, electricity, rail etc had been brought into public ownership as he wanted; the pandemic would still have happened, billions would still have been spent, supply bottlenecks would still have happened, and gas and electricity wholesale prices would still have gone up. So ... IF Corbyn would have been elected, as tax payers the Government would have had to increase prices (or go bust or turn the lights out) and we would have been paying those increased prices to them. This isn't taking into consideration the decline in revenue from rail, maintenance (across all sectors), staff absence, interest rate increases lessening any improvements etc. It would have meant they would all have to be profitable. Thoughts please?" There wouldn't be much difference to now. Maybe some shouting about antisemites. And Jimmy. Oh, wait on, if Corbyn was in power and arguments got tough, would Boris have still pulled of the Jimmy gag? | |||
"I would judge Jeremy Corbyn based on the fact that he was incapable of managing his own finances. He had to downsize his house in order to pay off some of his debt. Imagine the consequences if he was handling public money . The Unite unions new hotel is a good case in point. They spent £100 million pounds constructing it and the current valuation is circa 30 million. With PPE we had to compete on the world market and get a supplies ASAP. Lives had to be saved regardless of the cost. To those who think the process could have been more efficient , how many people were you prepared to let die in order to save money. ? It is very easy to make the correct decision with the benefit of hindsight. Sorry but you clearly don’t understand what happened. Numerous British companies with appropriate credentials and a substantial track record in PPE and/other medical supplies were ignored while those on the Tory VIP fast track lane were given preference. They had a hugely significantly higher chance of contract award than anyone else. These includes “companies” that were set up on the fly, dormant companies with no assets, countless companies with no specialist or relevant experience, almost universally registered off shore, and all charging hugely inflated costs with many not delivering against the actual spec and yet it appears no recourse to claim back the money! One if the biggest cons in history, don’t try to defend it!. In a time of national crisis, you can hardly say we will wait six months unto prices drop and in meantime we will just let people die because we consider PPE to be too expensive. We were competing in the world market and had no choice but to pay the going rate. An investigation into one company on the VIP lane concluded that they would have been awarded the contract regardless of whether it existed . In addition apart from obtaining a contract, you also have to ensure that you are paid . This would involve processing various payments through the governments payment process which is administered by civil servants and independent of the government. In a crisis saving lives is more important than cost. We could all make the correct decisions with the benefit of hindsight. Aa I said you clearly know nothing (or very little) about Govt procurement and you have underlined this further with that latest post. “Nearly 60% of the PPE procured from firms linked to the UK (Tory) government was unusable – sparking fresh questions about the controversial ‘VIP’ lane” It wasn’t purchased “at the going rate” it was at vastly inflated rates with the addition of multi million £ finders fees. You cite ONE company from the VIP lane. ONE! Of course some would have been legit. Many many more were not. This was corruption of the highest order. Do some research into Tory Peer Michelle Mone... https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/06/tory-peer-michelle-mone-involved-ppe-medpro-government-contracts Stop trying to defend the indefensible. The British public have been stolen from to the tune of £billions." . There is an article on the largest supplier of PPE in one of the national newspapers today. Full Support Healthcare is run by an trained nurse who worked in the NHS and then for Kimberbley Clarke Heathcare before setting up on her own . A spokesman for the Department of Health and Social Care has stated that proper due diligence was carried our for all government contacts and a robust process is in place that ensures orders are high quality and meet strict safety standards. This looks to me like a very hard working ex nurse pursued a very successfull career over 20 years in the PPE supply businness . A special framework agreement with Full Support Healthcare dating back some five years meant details about what it has been paid for and the value for money provided does not have to be published. Full Support Healthcare ordered very substantial volumes of PPE and acted fast before news of the spread of the virus became public in early 2020. They acted on a tip off that they received in December 2019 and placed massive orders for PPE to Chinese Suppliers before prices rose in anticipation that the government would shortly require PPE in quantities previously unheard of . This looks to me that an ex nurse with 20 years of experience in supplying PPE took a large gamble but was substantially awarded for it . The PPE supplied will have saved many lives in the process | |||
"I would judge Jeremy Corbyn based on the fact that he was incapable of managing his own finances. He had to downsize his house in order to pay off some of his debt. Imagine the consequences if he was handling public money . The Unite unions new hotel is a good case in point. They spent £100 million pounds constructing it and the current valuation is circa 30 million. With PPE we had to compete on the world market and get a supplies ASAP. Lives had to be saved regardless of the cost. To those who think the process could have been more efficient , how many people were you prepared to let die in order to save money. ? It is very easy to make the correct decision with the benefit of hindsight. Sorry but you clearly don’t understand what happened. Numerous British companies with appropriate credentials and a substantial track record in PPE and/other medical supplies were ignored while those on the Tory VIP fast track lane were given preference. They had a hugely significantly higher chance of contract award than anyone else. These includes “companies” that were set up on the fly, dormant companies with no assets, countless companies with no specialist or relevant experience, almost universally registered off shore, and all charging hugely inflated costs with many not delivering against the actual spec and yet it appears no recourse to claim back the money! One if the biggest cons in history, don’t try to defend it!. In a time of national crisis, you can hardly say we will wait six months unto prices drop and in meantime we will just let people die because we consider PPE to be too expensive. We were competing in the world market and had no choice but to pay the going rate. An investigation into one company on the VIP lane concluded that they would have been awarded the contract regardless of whether it existed . In addition apart from obtaining a contract, you also have to ensure that you are paid . This would involve processing various payments through the governments payment process which is administered by civil servants and independent of the government. In a crisis saving lives is more important than cost. We could all make the correct decisions with the benefit of hindsight. Aa I said you clearly know nothing (or very little) about Govt procurement and you have underlined this further with that latest post. “Nearly 60% of the PPE procured from firms linked to the UK (Tory) government was unusable – sparking fresh questions about the controversial ‘VIP’ lane” It wasn’t purchased “at the going rate” it was at vastly inflated rates with the addition of multi million £ finders fees. You cite ONE company from the VIP lane. ONE! Of course some would have been legit. Many many more were not. This was corruption of the highest order. Do some research into Tory Peer Michelle Mone... https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/06/tory-peer-michelle-mone-involved-ppe-medpro-government-contracts Stop trying to defend the indefensible. The British public have been stolen from to the tune of £billions.. There is an article on the largest supplier of PPE in one of the national newspapers today. Full Support Healthcare is run by an trained nurse who worked in the NHS and then for Kimberbley Clarke Heathcare before setting up on her own . A spokesman for the Department of Health and Social Care has stated that proper due diligence was carried our for all government contacts and a robust process is in place that ensures orders are high quality and meet strict safety standards. This looks to me like a very hard working ex nurse pursued a very successfull career over 20 years in the PPE supply businness . A special framework agreement with Full Support Healthcare dating back some five years meant details about what it has been paid for and the value for money provided does not have to be published. Full Support Healthcare ordered very substantial volumes of PPE and acted fast before news of the spread of the virus became public in early 2020. They acted on a tip off that they received in December 2019 and placed massive orders for PPE to Chinese Suppliers before prices rose in anticipation that the government would shortly require PPE in quantities previously unheard of . This looks to me that an ex nurse with 20 years of experience in supplying PPE took a large gamble but was substantially awarded for it . The PPE supplied will have saved many lives in the process " Yep and well done them EXCEPT that is a single example AND it was if a company that already had the right experience and a track record. Your earlier quotes from DHSC are not correct. | |||
