FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Do you feel less European today?
Do you feel less European today?
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"I don't know how I feel today, except sad." Sad day indeed!  but let’s hope for a positive outcome! | |||
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"I don't know how I feel today, except sad. Sad day indeed! but let’s hope for a positive outcome! "That’s about all that we can do. | |||
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"Never felt European in the first place really means nothing to me I can still travel to Europe, I can live there, I can work there I can choose to retire there if I so wish. But I prefer the amazing United States of America to enjoy all of the above." You wont be able to live there, or retire there - you will post 2020 have to satisfy their travel requirements. To work there, you will need a visa. Likewise to retire there. Freedom of movement will end end of Jan 2020 Oh by the way, Elon Musk is building his Tesla factory in Berlin and not the U.K. - why? Brexit... | |||
"I definitely think it's odd seeing footage of a packed out parliament Square celebrating like the Berlin Wall had fallen again and me I guess half the rest of the country not fussed about it. That really highlighted how divided our nation is over such a daft issue. Not sure about less European - always though the UK and England specifically felt separate in more than geographic ways from mainland Europe." Parliament wasnt packed out... | |||
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"Never felt European in the first place really means nothing to me I can still travel to Europe, I can live there, I can work there I can choose to retire there if I so wish. But I prefer the amazing United States of America to enjoy all of the above." I lived in the US for several years. To do so, I needed several visas. When those visas finished I had to leave. Thats how it works | |||
"We'll always be European, we just aren't part of an expensive political protection racket with dubious power grabbing intentions anymore. I love travelling around Europe frequently, meeting the people, immersing in the different cultures, learning the history of the different countries etc, but as a political organisation I dislike the EU and how it conducts itself so I voted to leave." And Elon Musk will build his new Tesla factory in Berlin and not the UK because of Brexit. There is an economic cost to this. As of end of Jan 2020, A lot of Brits are going to slowly realise that India, China, EU, US are powerful countries that put there interests first. Cant wait for that US/UK trade deal - US farms a lot cheaper than Brits. A lot to British farmers are going to lose even more taxpayers money | |||
"You left European union not Europe so why would you feel less European? " I don’t know hence the question! some people never felt European in the first place so anything can be! | |||
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"Never felt European in the first place really means nothing to me I can still travel to Europe, I can live there, I can work there I can choose to retire there if I so wish. But I prefer the amazing United States of America to enjoy all of the above. You wont be able to live there, or retire there - you will post 2020 have to satisfy their travel requirements. To work there, you will need a visa. Likewise to retire there. Freedom of movement will end end of Jan 2020 Oh by the way, Elon Musk is building his Tesla factory in Berlin and not the U.K. - why? Brexit..." Fella, I am fully aware of requirements, and I state again I can work in Europe, travel in Europe and if I chose, I can live or retire there. I do meet all requirements As long as you are educated and have the financial backing you have travel and live World wide | |||
I'm sorry for the victims of the racially motivated crime that's escalated shamefully since all this started | |||
"You left European union not Europe so why would you feel less European? " This  | |||
"I still feel British and European. And we are still both! We have left a bureaucratic and often authoritarian trading bloc and wannabe superstate, not the continent of Europe. Many European countries are not part of the EU, so it is still entirely compatible to be British and European! My guess is that come the end of the year when the transition period is over that there will be little to no disruption in our ability to travel to and through Europe, we will still be able to use the same passport gates as we do now, and thousands of UK people will continue to travel pain free around Europe (and vice versa, those coming into the UK). " And Elon musk will still build his factory in Berlin as will many other biz. We will have visa free travel to the EU and visa versa ( we will have no choice) But no Brit will automatically ahve the right to work, or retire in an EU country. The days of Brits retiring to Spain (and having access to their healthcare system are gone) You will have to apply for a visa (which they can refuse). After all, they will put EU citizens first. Oh by way, when we do out Free trade deals with India - expect 100k to 300k Indians to arrive in the UK - India exports Brown people. Oh by the way, when we do Free trade deal with the US, expect much cheaper US food to put the Brexit supporting farmers out of biz | |||
"We'll always be European, we just aren't part of an expensive political protection racket with dubious power grabbing intentions anymore. I love travelling around Europe frequently, meeting the people, immersing in the different cultures, learning the history of the different countries etc, but as a political organisation I dislike the EU and how it conducts itself so I voted to leave. And Elon Musk will build his new Tesla factory in Berlin and not the UK because of Brexit. There is an economic cost to this. As of end of Jan 2020, A lot of Brits are going to slowly realise that India, China, EU, US are powerful countries that put there interests first. Cant wait for that US/UK trade deal - US farms a lot cheaper than Brits. A lot to British farmers are going to lose even more taxpayers money" I come from a farming background in an area that also had fishing as its main industry, trust me a lot of British farmers and fishermen were not fans of the EU. My dad acquired a load of good arable land only to be told shortly after under EU rules (CAP) that he wasn't allowed to grow on it as it was deemed 'permanent set aside'. Half the world is starving and yet the EU tells us we aren't allowed to grow food on good land, and also dictates who we can and can't sell it to whilst leaving vast piles of unsold grain decaying in warehouses.  | |||
"Never felt European in the first place really means nothing to me I can still travel to Europe, I can live there, I can work there I can choose to retire there if I so wish. But I prefer the amazing United States of America to enjoy all of the above. You wont be able to live there, or retire there - you will post 2020 have to satisfy their travel requirements. To work there, you will need a visa. Likewise to retire there. Freedom of movement will end end of Jan 2020 Oh by the way, Elon Musk is building his Tesla factory in Berlin and not the U.K. - why? Brexit... Fella, I am fully aware of requirements, and I state again I can work in Europe, travel in Europe and if I chose, I can live or retire there. I do meet all requirements As long as you are educated and have the financial backing you have travel and live World wide" Wll, good for you! You of course took away that right for those who are “ not well educated or have financial backing” Its very nice you were happy to take that right away from others but keep it for yourself. It like all those rich Brexiters - who are applying for EU citizenship ! Hypocrisy isnt the word As fo living in the US - having lived in the US for 7 years, the US visa system if extremely onerous. | |||
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"We'll always be European, we just aren't part of an expensive political protection racket with dubious power grabbing intentions anymore. I love travelling around Europe frequently, meeting the people, immersing in the different cultures, learning the history of the different countries etc, but as a political organisation I dislike the EU and how it conducts itself so I voted to leave. And Elon Musk will build his new Tesla factory in Berlin and not the UK because of Brexit. There is an economic cost to this. As of end of Jan 2020, A lot of Brits are going to slowly realise that India, China, EU, US are powerful countries that put there interests first. Cant wait for that US/UK trade deal - US farms a lot cheaper than Brits. A lot to British farmers are going to lose even more taxpayers money I come from a farming background in an area that also had fishing as its main industry, trust me a lot of British farmers and fishermen were not fans of the EU. My dad acquired a load of good arable land only to be told shortly after under EU rules (CAP) that he wasn't allowed to grow on it as it was deemed 'permanent set aside'. Half the world is starving and yet the EU tells us we aren't allowed to grow food on good land, and also dictates who we can and can't sell it to whilst leaving vast piles of unsold grain decaying in warehouses. "Agreed! But when we do the free trade deal with teh US - the fact is that US farming is much more efficient than British - which will mean the British farmers going out of biz and/or the UK taxpayer susbisding British farmers even more. And of course when we do a Free trade deal with the commonwealth countries, their food is even cheaper. You may not like the EU - you will hate the US and the commonwealth countries. | |||
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"I've never felt European, born English and will die English.i will be honest, I voted leave, did I do the right thing? I now very much doubt it. I just hope we get a trade deal with Europe that is good for us. Rejoining is not an option, we would have to accept the euro if we did." We wont rejoin - that is for sure. But other countries that do join wont have to join the euro. When Scotland joins, they wont have to. Other countries are lining up to join. I could have voted Leave but didnt because I know Boris is a liar. Brexit is a English state of mind, not Scottish, Irish, or Welsh or that of Londoners.. | |||
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"We'll always be European, we just aren't part of an expensive political protection racket with dubious power grabbing intentions anymore. I love travelling around Europe frequently, meeting the people, immersing in the different cultures, learning the history of the different countries etc, but as a political organisation I dislike the EU and how it conducts itself so I voted to leave. And Elon Musk will build his new Tesla factory in Berlin and not the UK because of Brexit. There is an economic cost to this. As of end of Jan 2020, A lot of Brits are going to slowly realise that India, China, EU, US are powerful countries that put there interests first. Cant wait for that US/UK trade deal - US farms a lot cheaper than Brits. A lot to British farmers are going to lose even more taxpayers money" Would this be the Elon Musk who's management of the company has been heavily criticised and curtailed by regulators in the US? Also I'm pretty sure car manufacturing has been moving to our former partners in the EU for the last 30 years or so. Brexit may have been a factor for his decision, but it wasnt the main one. And Elon Musk is not the economic forecaster I would choose to follow. | |||
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"To Celebrate, I am going to have an English sausage later
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"I'll always feel European. I guess my family being a mixed bag of different EU nationalities helps. I mostly just feel sad. The gloating and rubbing of remainers noses in it on social media is a little sickening too. I've never seen anything like this before. I could understand celebrating if it's what you wanted. That is perfectly reasonable and understandable. I just don't understand the need of so many to do so by trying to make the other side feel as bad as possible when many of us are already in mourning. Apparently some people are incapable of enjoying "their win" without repeatedly kicking the other side in the ribs while they're down. Though I hate talking about it in terms of winning and losing. It reduces it to something trivial like a football match when in fact this is people's lives." Really well put and totally agree | |||
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"I don’t but what’s your view? "Shameful day | |||
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" As long as you are educated and have the financial backing you have travel and live World wide" I could list a couple of countries worldwide where education and money won't get you across the border. North Korea Iran | |||
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"I'll always feel European. I guess my family being a mixed bag of different EU nationalities helps. I mostly just feel sad. The gloating and rubbing of remainers noses in it on social media is a little sickening too. I've never seen anything like this before. I could understand celebrating if it's what you wanted. That is perfectly reasonable and understandable. I just don't understand the need of so many to do so by trying to make the other side feel as bad as possible when many of us are already in mourning. Apparently some people are incapable of enjoying "their win" without repeatedly kicking the other side in the ribs while they're down. Though I hate talking about it in terms of winning and losing. It reduces it to something trivial like a football match when in fact this is people's lives." Being in Scotland for the independence referendum, the behaviour was much the same. Division, hostility and name-calling. There's no need. Mrs TMN x | |||
"I'll always feel European. I guess my family being a mixed bag of different EU nationalities helps. I mostly just feel sad. The gloating and rubbing of remainers noses in it on social media is a little sickening too. I've never seen anything like this before. I could understand celebrating if it's what you wanted. That is perfectly reasonable and understandable. I just don't understand the need of so many to do so by trying to make the other side feel as bad as possible when many of us are already in mourning. Apparently some people are incapable of enjoying "their win" without repeatedly kicking the other side in the ribs while they're down. Though I hate talking about it in terms of winning and losing. It reduces it to something trivial like a football match when in fact this is people's lives. Really well put and totally agree "Yep well said! To be honest I feel sad when I see people burning the EU flag and shouting and swearing up yours to the EU. These sad muppets don’t realise that we need a good deal from the very people they are insulting!! If you watched the BBC last night you can clearly see that those that were celebrating haven’t got a clue what leaving the EU means!! | |||
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"Oh the good ole BBC (aunty) who are not biased or want the good old people who fought for us and our freedom to pay to watch there reruns over and over and over again. So they can line there pockets."  | |||
"hey ho not gona affect my life at all.if i wana holiday in e.u i can.personaly the last ten years ive stayed away from yhe place prefer going further afield these days.if i wanted to move there i still can just like i can move to most countrys if i meet there rules.are things gona be different yea of course.is it the end of the world? no its not. as for being european thats down to the individual we left the e.u not the continent well unless we have been towed out into the atlantic." Lol well said | |||
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"Well said. Least the ones you see on the news who voted are possitive happy enjoying what we may have/not. You see a remoaner on the news there all depressing and full of doom and gloom. Get a grip nothing really is gonna change. Remoaners did your finances change becaus we didnt change our currency to the euro?? They said then our country would fall to its knees did we NO? Same as we will be a bit shakey at first like every country but we will bounce back stronger and better than before. Everything that goes wrong now and in the last 3 odd years blame brexit (my arse)least Boris had some balls and hopefully will see this through.Im a normal guy normal home normal job. Its the middle classes who dont like brexit as we are rising up against you and may prosper and dont want us little people as a neighbour in your audi/ range rover world. Then again as brexit has happened where you gonna buy your cars?" you are right - brexit won t be a disaster. It will be just ten to 15 years of waster effort to gain a free trade deal with the EU/US/India/China - in that mean time every other country will be moving ahead while we will gazing at our navels You may want to google Elon Musk and his new Tesla factory in Berlin - Others arent sleeping while we spend the next ten years navel gaxing | |||
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"Was never European anyway...I’m English I doubt any German or French person would say they’re European before German or French I don’t understand people who say they’re European before whatever their birth nationality is xxx" There were studies that indicated some people do, across all members of the EU. | |||
"Was never European anyway...I’m English I doubt any German or French person would say they’re European before German or French I don’t understand people who say they’re European before whatever their birth nationality is xxx There were studies that indicated some people do, across all members of the EU." I've never felt specifically English. British maybe but then my surname is Scottish, my mum's name is Welsh, my partners family are Irish and I crossed the border into Wales 5 days a week for 3 years when I went to college in Wales. | |||
"I don’t but what’s your view? "Have they dragged us out into the Atlantic? Believe it or not geography dictates where the UK is, and we are still in Europe. Just not in the Union anymore. Big difference | |||
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How so ? when people, like I’ve mentioned above, are gloating in glory at their own fellow men?
I don’t get it.
I voted remain.
I voted for Jeremy Corbyn.
Proud.
But don’t ridicule and chastise me for it! I would not and have not done the same to the opposition.
Such a vile trait. | |||
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"Though I'm sad to be out of the EU, what I'm most upset about is the level of divisiveness its instilled across the country over the last 4 years. Feels like we've regressed 40 years in more ways than one, and I'm ashamed and disgusted of the way many are behaving and treating others. That's not limited to general public either - the politicians have led the charge. I just hope we're able to move forward from this and bring the country back on an even keel. " This 100 %. Absolutely spot on! | |||
"No I am Welsh not British we are campaigning for Welsh and Scottish independance" So you don’t want to be part of an administrative and legislative bloc of nations? Or do you? I’m confused! | |||
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"Heres my take on it, if you have the patients to read this I'd be interested to hear a response... When we joined the EU it wasnt a bad idea, 7 of the top European countries all coming together with a trade agreement so in trade terms we would compete on a world stage as one. All countries at that time were successful and it meant with no taxes on exported goods the member nations became more competitive as a whole in comparison to the rest of the world. That exclusive club has now grown by some 20 countries (some not successful) and along the way more and more crazy Euro laws has left us with the feeling that our identity as British citizens is in question. The scaremongery being whipped up atm is reminiscent of the millennium bug of 2000, theres no need to stockpile medicine, it would be political suicide to sell off off our NHS and you'll still be able to buy a BMW. There is however one big difference between the British and the rest of Europe and this is it... 18yrs ago I welded quite a few jobs in Europe for an English company. One such time in what was an old East Germain town I found myself on the last night having a farewell drink with other contractors, French,German, Dutch and Danish. The discussion turned to why the british kept their currency and how the rest happily converted over to the Euro. They all saw themselves as European first then their separate nationalities second. Can any remainer honestly say that? We will always see our British identity as our badge of honour and there lies the basis of why we will never be the same. Why shouldn't we have the right to say who lives in our shores. It's not racist to insist on a points system like Australia, I lived there for 10yrs and I can tell you it works.why should we pay £millions for MEP's to once a week take a train journey from Brussels to Strasbourg? We are big enough and ugly enough to stand on our own two feet on the world stage and be successful whilst doing it. It's not wrong to say your proud to be British, that meant something once and can once again. And if your European living and working here then keep your own identity of course your welcome to stay and better yourselves, I've been an immigrant myself so this isn't a racist rant. Nor is it racist to be proud of who we are, not who they want us to be... "We haven't been subject to any EU law we didn't vote in favour of. Those we weren't in favour of we vetoed. There has been a need to stockpile medicines. In the last year my workplace has ran out of certain painkillers and antibiotics 3 times and continues to have supply issues. The NHS is already being privatised. The sexual health services in the area I work in are now run by virgin care (it used to be run by a local NHS trust). They've now been out of stock of urine and swap kits for STI testing for months. A sexual health service that can't even provide sexual health screening. I've never really identified strongly as British. It's more a casual identity than say my identity as a student when I was I was one or my identity as a lefty. I identify more with other young people in Europe than I do with a lot of older British people. We chose not to use many of the controls we could when it came to immigration while in the EU though? Why leave for more border control when you're not using the border control you already have? I don't really feel massively proud to be British. I often feel we lack sophistication compared to other nationalities (though some are worse for sure). Most others fluently speak more than one language as they're taught to do so from a young age. Our food is also shit and we drink too much  . We redeem ourselves slightly with British music and fashion. I wouldn't say I'm ashamed to be British but there's a slight shyness about it. Much in the same way as with whiteness when it comes to our lack of rhythm and inability to season food . | |||
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"This has already been a sad year i lost my father last month and now that clown Johnson has ended the dissunited kingdom! Now this will only drive Wales and Scotlands passion for Freedom! Our hears are free foollow it! # Annibynieth i Gymru~ Welsh Independance Cymru am Byth!~ Alba Gu brath!" Wales voted for leave though? Sorry I don't understand. Scotland I can totally get where they're coming from as membership to the EU was one of the reasons they were given to vote to remain in the UK and then they mostly voted to remain in the EU which they can now no longer do as part of the UK. | |||
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"This has already been a sad year i lost my father last month and now that clown Johnson has ended the dissunited kingdom! Now this will only drive Wales and Scotlands passion for Freedom! Our hears are free foollow it! # Annibynieth i Gymru~ Welsh Independance Cymru am Byth!~ Alba Gu brath! Wales voted for leave though? Sorry I don't understand. Scotland I can totally get where they're coming from as membership to the EU was one of the reasons they were given to vote to remain in the UK and then they mostly voted to remain in the EU which they can now no longer do as part of the UK." Lacey - I liked your post a lot. Please read the Oxford Uni study on the Wales result - The Guardian reported on it. Im not saying it’s right, but it does chime with what I think happened here. If correct, it’s hugely interesting and revealing. I must stress - I’m still a believer in freedom of movement and that any decent person from anywhere is welcome in Wales | |||
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" We can and more than likely will adopt the EU regulations and standards. And if people dont like what happens there are regular things called general elections where we can boot out the government and elect people who will do what we want. " If you trade with a European company, you will have to abide by EU regulations. | |||
"I'll always feel European. I guess my family being a mixed bag of different EU nationalities helps. I mostly just feel sad. The gloating and rubbing of remainers noses in it on social media is a little sickening too. I've never seen anything like this before. I could understand celebrating if it's what you wanted. That is perfectly reasonable and understandable. I just don't understand the need of so many to do so by trying to make the other side feel as bad as possible when many of us are already in mourning. Apparently some people are incapable of enjoying "their win" without repeatedly kicking the other side in the ribs while they're down. Though I hate talking about it in terms of winning and losing. It reduces it to something trivial like a football match when in fact this is people's lives. Really well put and totally agree
Yep well said!
To be honest I feel sad when I see people burning the EU flag and shouting and swearing up yours to the EU. These sad muppets don’t realise that we need a good deal from the very people they are insulting!!
If you watched the BBC last night you can clearly see that those that were celebrating haven’t got a clue what leaving the EU means!!"so how did you feel seeing bollocks to Brexit shirts in the European parliament? Classy wasn't it? I dont think it was | |||
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"We'll always be European, we just aren't part of an expensive political protection racket with dubious power grabbing intentions anymore. I love travelling around Europe frequently, meeting the people, immersing in the different cultures, learning the history of the different countries etc, but as a political organisation I dislike the EU and how it conducts itself so I voted to leave. And Elon Musk will build his new Tesla factory in Berlin and not the UK because of Brexit. There is an economic cost to this. As of end of Jan 2020, A lot of Brits are going to slowly realise that India, China, EU, US are powerful countries that put there interests first. Cant wait for that US/UK trade deal - US farms a lot cheaper than Brits. A lot to British farmers are going to lose even more taxpayers money" A lot of the EU farms cheaper than the UK. We have some of the strictest animal welfare rules because that is what the people of the UK want. However they also want ridiculously cheap meat, so we import cheap pork from Poland, so will it make any difference if the label says Poland or USA... There are a lot of people quoting things that are not facts as if they are facts. | |||
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"We'll always be European, we just aren't part of an expensive political protection racket with dubious power grabbing intentions anymore. I love travelling around Europe frequently, meeting the people, immersing in the different cultures, learning the history of the different countries etc, but as a political organisation I dislike the EU and how it conducts itself so I voted to leave. And Elon Musk will build his new Tesla factory in Berlin and not the UK because of Brexit. There is an economic cost to this. As of end of Jan 2020, A lot of Brits are going to slowly realise that India, China, EU, US are powerful countries that put there interests first. Cant wait for that US/UK trade deal - US farms a lot cheaper than Brits. A lot to British farmers are going to lose even more taxpayers money A lot of the EU farms cheaper than the UK. We have some of the strictest animal welfare rules because that is what the people of the UK want. However they also want ridiculously cheap meat, so we import cheap pork from Poland, so will it make any difference if the label says Poland or USA... There are a lot of people quoting things that are not facts as if they are facts." Less chance of it being chlorine washed if it comes from Poland | |||
"Heres my take on it, if you have the patients to read this I'd be interested to hear a response... When we joined the EU it wasnt a bad idea, 7 of the top European countries all coming together with a trade agreement so in trade terms we would compete on a world stage as one. All countries at that time were successful and it meant with no taxes on exported goods the member nations became more competitive as a whole in comparison to the rest of the world. That exclusive club has now grown by some 20 countries (some not successful) and along the way more and more crazy Euro laws has left us with the feeling that our identity as British citizens is in question. The scaremongery being whipped up atm is reminiscent of the millennium bug of 2000, theres no need to stockpile medicine, it would be political suicide to sell off off our NHS and you'll still be able to buy a BMW. There is however one big difference between the British and the rest of Europe and this is it... 18yrs ago I welded quite a few jobs in Europe for an English company. One such time in what was an old East Germain town I found myself on the last night having a farewell drink with other contractors, French,German, Dutch and Danish. The discussion turned to why the british kept their currency and how the rest happily converted over to the Euro. They all saw themselves as European first then their separate nationalities second. Can any remainer honestly say that? We will always see our British identity as our badge of honour and there lies the basis of why we will never be the same. Why shouldn't we have the right to say who lives in our shores. It's not racist to insist on a points system like Australia, I lived there for 10yrs and I can tell you it works.why should we pay £millions for MEP's to once a week take a train journey from Brussels to Strasbourg? We are big enough and ugly enough to stand on our own two feet on the world stage and be successful whilst doing it. It's not wrong to say your proud to be British, that meant something once and can once again. And if your European living and working here then keep your own identity of course your welcome to stay and better yourselves, I've been an immigrant myself so this isn't a racist rant. Nor is it racist to be proud of who we are, not who they want us to be...
We haven't been subject to any EU law we didn't vote in favour of. Those we weren't in favour of we vetoed.
There has been a need to stockpile medicines. In the last year my workplace has ran out of certain painkillers and antibiotics 3 times and continues to have supply issues.
The NHS is already being privatised. The sexual health services in the area I work in are now run by virgin care (it used to be run by a local NHS trust). They've now been out of stock of urine and swap kits for STI testing for months. A sexual health service that can't even provide sexual health screening.
I've never really identified strongly as British. It's more a casual identity than say my identity as a student when I was I was one or my identity as a lefty. I identify more with other young people in Europe than I do with a lot of older British people.
We chose not to use many of the controls we could when it came to immigration while in the EU though? Why leave for more border control when you're not using the border control you already have?
I don't really feel massively proud to be British. I often feel we lack sophistication compared to other nationalities (though some are worse for sure). Most others fluently speak more than one language as they're taught to do so from a young age. Our food is also shit and we drink too much . We redeem ourselves slightly with British music and fashion. I wouldn't say I'm ashamed to be British but there's a slight shyness about it. Much in the same way as with whiteness when it comes to our lack of rhythm and inability to season food ."
Love this.
Unfortunately for all those proudly claiming to be nothing other than 'English', 'Welsh', 'Scottish', 'Irish' or 'British' - simple geography means you're all also European.
Like it or loathe it.
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"This has already been a sad year i lost my father last month and now that clown Johnson has ended the dissunited kingdom! Now this will only drive Wales and Scotlands passion for Freedom! Our hears are free foollow it! # Annibynieth i Gymru~ Welsh Independance Cymru am Byth!~ Alba Gu brath! Wales voted for leave though? Sorry I don't understand. Scotland I can totally get where they're coming from as membership to the EU was one of the reasons they were given to vote to remain in the UK and then they mostly voted to remain in the EU which they can now no longer do as part of the UK. Lacey - I liked your post a lot. Please read the Oxford Uni study on the Wales result - The Guardian reported on it. Im not saying it’s right, but it does chime with what I think happened here. If correct, it’s hugely interesting and revealing. I must stress - I’m still a believer in freedom of movement and that any decent person from anywhere is welcome in Wales "It's an interesting theory for sure. I guess the fact that living where I do and the divide being the opposite way round has skewed my view to the Welsh opinion. My part of England was very pro remain and nearly every leave voter I know is Welsh. Mostly around Wrexham. I went to college in Deeside so have a lot of Welsh friends and I and another English friend are the remainers having to bite our tongues among them . I guess the opinion of South Wales may be very different to the north. Or maybe Wrexham has just ended up being a very pro leave area. | |||
"This has already been a sad year i lost my father last month and now that clown Johnson has ended the dissunited kingdom! Now this will only drive Wales and Scotlands passion for Freedom! Our hears are free foollow it! # Annibynieth i Gymru~ Welsh Independance Cymru am Byth!~ Alba Gu brath! Wales voted for leave though? Sorry I don't understand. Scotland I can totally get where they're coming from as membership to the EU was one of the reasons they were given to vote to remain in the UK and then they mostly voted to remain in the EU which they can now no longer do as part of the UK. Lacey - I liked your post a lot. Please read the Oxford Uni study on the Wales result - The Guardian reported on it. Im not saying it’s right, but it does chime with what I think happened here. If correct, it’s hugely interesting and revealing. I must stress - I’m still a believer in freedom of movement and that any decent person from anywhere is welcome in Wales
It's an interesting theory for sure. I guess the fact that living where I do and the divide being the opposite way round has skewed my view to the Welsh opinion. My part of England was very pro remain and nearly every leave voter I know is Welsh. Mostly around Wrexham. I went to college in Deeside so have a lot of Welsh friends and I and another English friend are the remainers having to bite our tongues among them . I guess the opinion of South Wales may be very different to the north. Or maybe Wrexham has just ended up being a very pro leave area."It chimes with what I saw in my area. That area is a bit of an anomaly. It’s probably down to heavy industry. The old industrial areas have been horribly left behind, so voted leave (interestingly - I’ve not heard one word about helping them in the way the “northern wall” is now being talked about). I totally understand why the valleys did that - although I firmly believe policitians in Brussels did more for them than Boris ever will. The population of Wales is 22% English and many are elderly retirees. Absolutely no problem with that, but it undoubtedly had a big impact on Brexit. The higher the percentage of Welsh speakers in an area (it’s low in the valleys), the higher the remain vote. If Oxford Uni is right - Wales voted out, but Welsh people didn’t. Again - I’m not anti-English. I don’t wave any kind of flag and I wasn’t pro-breaking up the UK until the last three years. | |||
"Heres my take on it, if you have the patients to read this I'd be interested to hear a response... When we joined the EU it wasnt a bad idea, 7 of the top European countries all coming together with a trade agreement so in trade terms we would compete on a world stage as one. All countries at that time were successful and it meant with no taxes on exported goods the member nations became more competitive as a whole in comparison to the rest of the world. That exclusive club has now grown by some 20 countries (some not successful) and along the way more and more crazy Euro laws has left us with the feeling that our identity as British citizens is in question. The scaremongery being whipped up atm is reminiscent of the millennium bug of 2000, theres no need to stockpile medicine, it would be political suicide to sell off off our NHS and you'll still be able to buy a BMW. There is however one big difference between the British and the rest of Europe and this is it... 18yrs ago I welded quite a few jobs in Europe for an English company. One such time in what was an old East Germain town I found myself on the last night having a farewell drink with other contractors, French,German, Dutch and Danish. The discussion turned to why the british kept their currency and how the rest happily converted over to the Euro. They all saw themselves as European first then their separate nationalities second. Can any remainer honestly say that? We will always see our British identity as our badge of honour and there lies the basis of why we will never be the same. Why shouldn't we have the right to say who lives in our shores. It's not racist to insist on a points system like Australia, I lived there for 10yrs and I can tell you it works.why should we pay £millions for MEP's to once a week take a train journey from Brussels to Strasbourg? We are big enough and ugly enough to stand on our own two feet on the world stage and be successful whilst doing it. It's not wrong to say your proud to be British, that meant something once and can once again. And if your European living and working here then keep your own identity of course your welcome to stay and better yourselves, I've been an immigrant myself so this isn't a racist rant. Nor is it racist to be proud of who we are, not who they want us to be...
We haven't been subject to any EU law we didn't vote in favour of. Those we weren't in favour of we vetoed.
There has been a need to stockpile medicines. In the last year my workplace has ran out of certain painkillers and antibiotics 3 times and continues to have supply issues.
The NHS is already being privatised. The sexual health services in the area I work in are now run by virgin care (it used to be run by a local NHS trust). They've now been out of stock of urine and swap kits for STI testing for months. A sexual health service that can't even provide sexual health screening.
I've never really identified strongly as British. It's more a casual identity than say my identity as a student when I was I was one or my identity as a lefty. I identify more with other young people in Europe than I do with a lot of older British people.
We chose not to use many of the controls we could when it came to immigration while in the EU though? Why leave for more border control when you're not using the border control you already have?
I don't really feel massively proud to be British. I often feel we lack sophistication compared to other nationalities (though some are worse for sure). Most others fluently speak more than one language as they're taught to do so from a young age. Our food is also shit and we drink too much . We redeem ourselves slightly with British music and fashion. I wouldn't say I'm ashamed to be British but there's a slight shyness about it. Much in the same way as with whiteness when it comes to our lack of rhythm and inability to season food ."This! | |||
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"Lacey - when I said “that area is an anomaly”, I meant the Wrexham area. Anomaly isn’t the best word though." I know what you meant .
That's the only conclusion I can draw too. It was very bizarre for me to witness as the few English leavers I knew were mostly older which fit with the general bite demographic but nearly all my Welsh friends are similar in age to me, a few years either side of 30 and nearly all of them are very pro leave. But as I said they are mostly from the Wrexham area though a few are dotted around the north coast. It does make you wonder what the hell happened round there. | |||
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"Heres my take on it, if you have the patients to read this I'd be interested to hear a response... When we joined the EU it wasnt a bad idea, 7 of the top European countries all coming together with a trade agreement so in trade terms we would compete on a world stage as one. All countries at that time were successful and it meant with no taxes on exported goods the member nations became more competitive as a whole in comparison to the rest of the world. That exclusive club has now grown by some 20 countries (some not successful) and along the way more and more crazy Euro laws has left us with the feeling that our identity as British citizens is in question. The scaremongery being whipped up atm is reminiscent of the millennium bug of 2000, theres no need to stockpile medicine, it would be political suicide to sell off off our NHS and you'll still be able to buy a BMW. There is however one big difference between the British and the rest of Europe and this is it... 18yrs ago I welded quite a few jobs in Europe for an English company. One such time in what was an old East Germain town I found myself on the last night having a farewell drink with other contractors, French,German, Dutch and Danish. The discussion turned to why the british kept their currency and how the rest happily converted over to the Euro. They all saw themselves as European first then their separate nationalities second. Can any remainer honestly say that? We will always see our British identity as our badge of honour and there lies the basis of why we will never be the same. Why shouldn't we have the right to say who lives in our shores. It's not racist to insist on a points system like Australia, I lived there for 10yrs and I can tell you it works.why should we pay £millions for MEP's to once a week take a train journey from Brussels to Strasbourg? We are big enough and ugly enough to stand on our own two feet on the world stage and be successful whilst doing it. It's not wrong to say your proud to be British, that meant something once and can once again. And if your European living and working here then keep your own identity of course your welcome to stay and better yourselves, I've been an immigrant myself so this isn't a racist rant. Nor is it racist to be proud of who we are, not who they want us to be...
We haven't been subject to any EU law we didn't vote in favour of. Those we weren't in favour of we vetoed.
There has been a need to stockpile medicines. In the last year my workplace has ran out of certain painkillers and antibiotics 3 times and continues to have supply issues.
The NHS is already being privatised. The sexual health services in the area I work in are now run by virgin care (it used to be run by a local NHS trust). They've now been out of stock of urine and swap kits for STI testing for months. A sexual health service that can't even provide sexual health screening.
I've never really identified strongly as British. It's more a casual identity than say my identity as a student when I was I was one or my identity as a lefty. I identify more with other young people in Europe than I do with a lot of older British people.
We chose not to use many of the controls we could when it came to immigration while in the EU though? Why leave for more border control when you're not using the border control you already have?
I don't really feel massively proud to be British. I often feel we lack sophistication compared to other nationalities (though some are worse for sure). Most others fluently speak more than one language as they're taught to do so from a young age. Our food is also shit and we drink too much . We redeem ourselves slightly with British music and fashion. I wouldn't say I'm ashamed to be British but there's a slight shyness about it. Much in the same way as with whiteness when it comes to our lack of rhythm and inability to season food ."I like your debate Lacey but allow me to put further argument
Yes we could veto laws as they are passed, but at what cost? Tit for that maneuvers to be sure.
We have one of the richest fishing grounds in the world thsts plundered by Spanish vessels. But who is our biggest buyer of the fish caught by our own fishermen... Spain, we stop them from fishing and they stop buying from our fisherman.
Cameron went to Brussels with a list of demands to satisfy the British people, immigration being top of the agenda and told Donald Tusk if there was no movement on these issues then he would have no choice but to put it to the British people in a vote, they laughed at him, laughed at you...
The EU was never designed originally for richer nations like ours, Germany and so on to prop up the economy of bankrupt countries such as Spain,Portugal and southern island. That's your £'s going there.
I'm a type 1 diabetic and my insulin is bought over from Europe, I'm also taking 13 tablets of 3 different antibiotics, I'm not worried in the slightest. Heres something about the NHS. There is no way in it's current funding that it can serve our nation. The system stumbles from one crisis to the next. Australia system is far better. I doubt theres many that sees as much of hospitals as me. In Oz you can get seen for free like here but most have medical insurance. No waiting times, no full to bursting hospitals and lots of GP's with someday waiting times.i lived it for 10yrs and had identical foot ulcers in both countries. I can see our failings here by comparison. We need to stop seeing the nhs as a freebie and start funding in part privately, your going to have to trust me on that one...
Finally yes we are ignorant in our language capabilities, but didn't you have the chance to learn french and German? In my shitty Dudley schooling did. The reason why everyone else has to learn our language is because our empire covered most of the globe. You want pride in our culinary challenges country? Then look at our history, our achievements and our world leading inventiveness. The country your embarrassed of being a part of is actually the greatest nation on earth. You eat boring soggy chips and not sour kraut because boys like my grandad laid there lives on the line to ensure you didnt have to speak German. Im not being patronising to anyone reading this but we survived as a world leader before the '70s quite well. The most important figures in history came from these shores. Google the inventions and breakthroughs I'm mechanical science. The only way to move on is to unite under our common bond of pride... que Elgar lol
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"I don’t but what’s your view? "Never felt European. Always felt British. As a nation were part of a continent that I don't feel were necessarily labelled by. However geographically yes we are European. We only left the European union not Europe lol | |||
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"Never felt European in the first place really means nothing to me I can still travel to Europe, I can live there, I can work there I can choose to retire there if I so wish. But I prefer the amazing United States of America to enjoy all of the above. You wont be able to live there, or retire there - you will post 2020 have to satisfy their travel requirements. To work there, you will need a visa. Likewise to retire there. Freedom of movement will end end of Jan 2020 Oh by the way, Elon Musk is building his Tesla factory in Berlin and not the U.K. - why? Brexit... Fella, I am fully aware of requirements, and I state again I can work in Europe, travel in Europe and if I chose, I can live or retire there. I do meet all requirements As long as you are educated and have the financial backing you have travel and live World wide" Just one question. How long ago did you check the requirements for staying in the USA? I have British friends of mine who, 20 years ago, moved out to the States, taking over a 9 roomed Inn, in Vermont. Within 5 years, it was winning major awards, they were employing local people & using local businesses, effectively inputting into the local economy. About 8 years ago, they received official confirmation they'd passed all the requirements to legally allow them to stay, even retire once they decided to do so. Then Donald Trump came into office. He's getting non-Americans out! My friends were told their entitlements were withdrawn. Even support from the regional chambers of commerce and influential Republican Big Businesses leaders right up to the State Governor failed to win over Trump's regime. The diktat was simple - Foreigners had to leave. From mid 2017, they'd 18 months to sell up or be forced out. Luckily, they got a buyer for their property, & they returned to the UK 13 months ago. But they've heard of other Brits, even those with joint UK/US nationality, whose US identity is being revoked, to appease the Trump administration. | |||
"I'll always feel European. I guess my family being a mixed bag of different EU nationalities helps. I mostly just feel sad. The gloating and rubbing of remainers noses in it on social media is a little sickening too. I've never seen anything like this before. I could understand celebrating if it's what you wanted. That is perfectly reasonable and understandable. I just don't understand the need of so many to do so by trying to make the other side feel as bad as possible when many of us are already in mourning. Apparently some people are incapable of enjoying "their win" without repeatedly kicking the other side in the ribs while they're down. Though I hate talking about it in terms of winning and losing. It reduces it to something trivial like a football match when in fact this is people's lives. Really well put and totally agree
Yep well said!
To be honest I feel sad when I see people burning the EU flag and shouting and swearing up yours to the EU. These sad muppets don’t realise that we need a good deal from the very people they are insulting!!
If you watched the BBC last night you can clearly see that those that were celebrating haven’t got a clue what leaving the EU means!!"I felt embarrassed to watch and listen to the idiots celebrating their freedom. The level of stupidity in Parliament Square was off the scale. Dimwits who have bought the lies about the EU - depressing. | |||
"Was never European anyway...I’m English I doubt any German or French person would say they’re European before German or French I don’t understand people who say they’re European before whatever their birth nationality is xxx" Brexit is an English disease....I feel British and European | |||
"Sad that we've lost freedoms many of us had the whole of our lives. I'm more aware now of stupidity. " I have lived with the same freedoms most of my life (before so I was probably too young to know the difference). But don't forget that people older than you have had these freedoms of not just U.K citizens but most of Europe too being decided and enacted on without them having any say by unelected politicians etc. There are many different reasons why people voted to leave or remain, just because you disagree with someone it doesn't make them stupid! I've always read views from both sides of the EU argument and more often than not, the remain voters are always the most insulting and offensive...now that is stupid! | |||
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"No difference at all , just glad it’s all over with and now we can move on and make the uk brilliant again " make it great you mean lol is that possible one wonders | |||
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"Have never really felt European Too many double standards Why when in Spain do locals pay less in their supermarkets than a tourist? Do we charge more if they shop in ours?" good point lol | |||
"No difference at all , just glad it’s all over with and now we can move on and make the uk brilliant again " When was the UK not brilliant, then? I’d argue for the last 10 years, but that’s nothing to do with the EU. | |||
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"I definitely think it's odd seeing footage of a packed out parliament Square celebrating like the Berlin Wall had fallen again and me I guess half the rest of the country not fussed about it. That really highlighted how divided our nation is over such a daft issue. Not sure about less European - always though the UK and England specifically felt separate in more than geographic ways from mainland Europe. Parliament wasnt packed out..." Oh, right. So it was just the national broadcaster making it look that way. Reassuring. | |||
"Heres my take on it, if you have the patients to read this I'd be interested to hear a response... When we joined the EU it wasnt a bad idea, 7 of the top European countries all coming together with a trade agreement so in trade terms we would compete on a world stage as one. All countries at that time were successful and it meant with no taxes on exported goods the member nations became more competitive as a whole in comparison to the rest of the world. That exclusive club has now grown by some 20 countries (some not successful) and along the way more and more crazy Euro laws has left us with the feeling that our identity as British citizens is in question. The scaremongery being whipped up atm is reminiscent of the millennium bug of 2000, theres no need to stockpile medicine, it would be political suicide to sell off off our NHS and you'll still be able to buy a BMW. There is however one big difference between the British and the rest of Europe and this is it... 18yrs ago I welded quite a few jobs in Europe for an English company. One such time in what was an old East Germain town I found myself on the last night having a farewell drink with other contractors, French,German, Dutch and Danish. The discussion turned to why the british kept their currency and how the rest happily converted over to the Euro. They all saw themselves as European first then their separate nationalities second. Can any remainer honestly say that? We will always see our British identity as our badge of honour and there lies the basis of why we will never be the same. Why shouldn't we have the right to say who lives in our shores. It's not racist to insist on a points system like Australia, I lived there for 10yrs and I can tell you it works.why should we pay £millions for MEP's to once a week take a train journey from Brussels to Strasbourg? We are big enough and ugly enough to stand on our own two feet on the world stage and be successful whilst doing it. It's not wrong to say your proud to be British, that meant something once and can once again. And if your European living and working here then keep your own identity of course your welcome to stay and better yourselves, I've been an immigrant myself so this isn't a racist rant. Nor is it racist to be proud of who we are, not who they want us to be...
We haven't been subject to any EU law we didn't vote in favour of. Those we weren't in favour of we vetoed.
There has been a need to stockpile medicines. In the last year my workplace has ran out of certain painkillers and antibiotics 3 times and continues to have supply issues.
The NHS is already being privatised. The sexual health services in the area I work in are now run by virgin care (it used to be run by a local NHS trust). They've now been out of stock of urine and swap kits for STI testing for months. A sexual health service that can't even provide sexual health screening.
I've never really identified strongly as British. It's more a casual identity than say my identity as a student when I was I was one or my identity as a lefty. I identify more with other young people in Europe than I do with a lot of older British people.
We chose not to use many of the controls we could when it came to immigration while in the EU though? Why leave for more border control when you're not using the border control you already have?
I don't really feel massively proud to be British. I often feel we lack sophistication compared to other nationalities (though some are worse for sure). Most others fluently speak more than one language as they're taught to do so from a young age. Our food is also shit and we drink too much . We redeem ourselves slightly with British music and fashion. I wouldn't say I'm ashamed to be British but there's a slight shyness about it. Much in the same way as with whiteness when it comes to our lack of rhythm and inability to season food .
I like your debate Lacey but allow me to put further argument
Yes we could veto laws as they are passed, but at what cost? Tit for that maneuvers to be sure.
We have one of the richest fishing grounds in the world thsts plundered by Spanish vessels. But who is our biggest buyer of the fish caught by our own fishermen... Spain, we stop them from fishing and they stop buying from our fisherman.
Cameron went to Brussels with a list of demands to satisfy the British people, immigration being top of the agenda and told Donald Tusk if there was no movement on these issues then he would have no choice but to put it to the British people in a vote, they laughed at him, laughed at you...
The EU was never designed originally for richer nations like ours, Germany and so on to prop up the economy of bankrupt countries such as Spain,Portugal and southern island. That's your £'s going there.
I'm a type 1 diabetic and my insulin is bought over from Europe, I'm also taking 13 tablets of 3 different antibiotics, I'm not worried in the slightest. Heres something about the NHS. There is no way in it's current funding that it can serve our nation. The system stumbles from one crisis to the next. Australia system is far better. I doubt theres many that sees as much of hospitals as me. In Oz you can get seen for free like here but most have medical insurance. No waiting times, no full to bursting hospitals and lots of GP's with someday waiting times.i lived it for 10yrs and had identical foot ulcers in both countries. I can see our failings here by comparison. We need to stop seeing the nhs as a freebie and start funding in part privately, your going to have to trust me on that one...
Finally yes we are ignorant in our language capabilities, but didn't you have the chance to learn french and German? In my shitty Dudley schooling did. The reason why everyone else has to learn our language is because our empire covered most of the globe. You want pride in our culinary challenges country? Then look at our history, our achievements and our world leading inventiveness. The country your embarrassed of being a part of is actually the greatest nation on earth. You eat boring soggy chips and not sour kraut because boys like my grandad laid there lives on the line to ensure you didnt have to speak German. Im not being patronising to anyone reading this but we survived as a world leader before the '70s quite well. The most important figures in history came from these shores. Google the inventions and breakthroughs I'm mechanical science. The only way to move on is to unite under our common bond of pride... que Elgar lol
"Ok but exactly how will that be any different from outside the EU? How will leaving the EU force Spain to buy from us against their will? Sometimes we can't do exactly what we want as it has negative consequences. Or we can and we suffer those consequences. That's just life. Of course they laughed at us. We had some of the most favourable terms of any member but it was never enough for us. And now we want to have our cake and eat it. We want all the same benefits, without having to abide by their rules or contribute anything financially. We just come across as arrogant and entitled and it isn't just the EU laughing at us, it's other countries people too and I'm not surprised. I'm a socialist so .
I'm sorry but I do not trust you on that one. Healthcare being for profit is never going to be more efficient or a better service without compromising access to that care when money is being creamed off the top. Also you can't simultaneously argue that it would be political suicide to sell off the NHS and also that we actually should sell off the NHS.
Yes I had the chance to learn French but by 13 our abilities to learn new languages are nowhere near as good as when we are taught at the ages other countries are. I know basic phrases and I can order for myself in a restaurant but that's barely even riding a bike with stabilisers still on. We don't prioritise it because we don't NEED to because virtually everyone else speaks our language and that's the exact arrogant attitude I am referring to that gives me that shyness about my nationality. It's entirely possible to be great but humble. I fear we are managing neither.
I actually like sauerkraut . What is wrong with speaking German or being German? My grandad was also in the military in WW2. That wasn't anything to do with ensuring we didn't speak German. It was fighting fascism. The fascists just happened to be German. WW2 actually brought more other nationalities to this country, including my Dutch grandmother. That was something that made this country and many others great. We united with other to defeat horrific, fatal levels of intolerance and then opened our doors to the victims of that who were in need. I feel we have only moved backwards and become more selfish. | |||
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"Love all the scare stories. Weren't we also told if we leave, on the stroke of midnight our economy would instantly plunge in to deep recession? The pound would plunge and the sky's of doom would turn dark? Everyone's opinion is valid, but jeez we are still in Europe, just not part of the establishment. " We’ve only left in name, currently. We’re still in the single market. Customs union. We still adhere to all EU rules and we can’t enact any new trade deals until jan 1st 2021. We’re essentially still an EU member until the end of the year. | |||
"Love all the scare stories. Weren't we also told if we leave, on the stroke of midnight our economy would instantly plunge in to deep recession? The pound would plunge and the sky's of doom would turn dark? Everyone's opinion is valid, but jeez we are still in Europe, just not part of the establishment. We’ve only left in name, currently. We’re still in the single market. Customs union. We still adhere to all EU rules and we can’t enact any new trade deals until jan 1st 2021. We’re essentially still an EU member until the end of the year." No we're not. | |||
"Love all the scare stories. Weren't we also told if we leave, on the stroke of midnight our economy would instantly plunge in to deep recession? The pound would plunge and the sky's of doom would turn dark? Everyone's opinion is valid, but jeez we are still in Europe, just not part of the establishment. We’ve only left in name, currently. We’re still in the single market. Customs union. We still adhere to all EU rules and we can’t enact any new trade deals until jan 1st 2021. We’re essentially still an EU member until the end of the year. No we're not." We have to adhere to all EU rules, we’re still in the single market and customs union. We can’t enact any newly negotiated trade deals. Basically EU membership without actually being able to effect anything in the EU parliament. | |||
"Love all the scare stories. Weren't we also told if we leave, on the stroke of midnight our economy would instantly plunge in to deep recession? The pound would plunge and the sky's of doom would turn dark? Everyone's opinion is valid, but jeez we are still in Europe, just not part of the establishment. We’ve only left in name, currently. We’re still in the single market. Customs union. We still adhere to all EU rules and we can’t enact any new trade deals until jan 1st 2021. We’re essentially still an EU member until the end of the year. No we're not. We have to adhere to all EU rules, we’re still in the single market and customs union. We can’t enact any newly negotiated trade deals. Basically EU membership without actually being able to effect anything in the EU parliament. " And still paying for it. But let's not let facts get in the way of 'we've got Brexit done'..... 
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"Love all the scare stories. Weren't we also told if we leave, on the stroke of midnight our economy would instantly plunge in to deep recession? The pound would plunge and the sky's of doom would turn dark? Everyone's opinion is valid, but jeez we are still in Europe, just not part of the establishment. We’ve only left in name, currently. We’re still in the single market. Customs union. We still adhere to all EU rules and we can’t enact any new trade deals until jan 1st 2021. We’re essentially still an EU member until the end of the year. No we're not. We have to adhere to all EU rules, we’re still in the single market and customs union. We can’t enact any newly negotiated trade deals. Basically EU membership without actually being able to effect anything in the EU parliament. " No it isn't | |||
