FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Unpaid overtime ... commitment or taking the piss?
Unpaid overtime ... commitment or taking the piss?
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"is your mobile a company one? Depsite offers, I have always refused a work mobile and choose to answer my own one. Out of hours, I rarely answer an obvious work call." It's my own phone, although they do want me to have a company phone. It's a 30 mile round trip from my home to work and back, I don't have a company vehicle and I can't claim expenses. lol, at least Dick Turpin had the decency to wear a mask | |||
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"the only people that work for nothing is a wife and mother been a cook cleaner nurse child care need i say more lol "Sorry but we dont work for nothing, unconditional love is worth more than any pay check | |||
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"I should add that I'm expected to go to work out of hours to attend to customers. The company charges "out of hrs, or emergency costs" but don't pass any of it on to us." if you dont have a company car and are exected to visit business customers out of hours, then you will potentially be using your car for business use... which if you are under a "social/domestic/pleasure" restriction on your car insurance could put you in a bit of bother if you had an accident.... ... if they are expecting you to work out of hours they should at least cover any extra costs you have to incur to keep you (and others) safe. stick to your guns and don't do it for free. | |||
"the only people that work for nothing is a wife and mother been a cook cleaner nurse child care need i say more lol "+1 | |||
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"If its in your contract... Do it or leave. If it isnt, dont do it and if they harass you into leaving, screw them for "Constructive Dismissal" By law an employee must have a minimum rest period between shifts. 11 hours sounds right, but I may be wrong. My boss tried it on with our section and was unanimously sent to hell in a handcart...;-)"  | |||
"I should add that I'm expected to go to work out of hours to attend to customers. The company charges "out of hrs, or emergency costs" but don't pass any of it on to us." Tell them you want a piece of the action or you're off. It's not right that they gain by your labour and you don't. The company also gains in reputation for providing staff whenever a client needs them. Sod that malarky. | |||
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"Businesses don't work for nothing, so why do they expect their workforce to work for nothing? I was told when I started my new job, that I would not get paid for overtime, so I told them, "Fine, I'm ok with that, I don't intend to do any" They still gave me the job, but now they are expecting me to be available or contactable out of hours. Surely it's my choice whether I answer my phone or not. I show my commitment by the quantity and quality of my work that I do while I am there, and not by home much time I'm sat at my desk. Oh, well, fuck 'em, looks like I'll be out of work again soon. I'm not being bullied into working for nothing " Read your contract to see what you agreed to and signed to say you would. If you are legally obliged to work unpaid then it is more than likely a managerial position and you have to make decisions if you are going to do all they ask, some of that they ask or none. In the mean time actively look for other employment. | |||
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"There will be nothing in a contract that says you have to work unpaid overtime, it may state you have to do compulsory overtime under a certain set of conditions but it will always be paid. I think they are trying to have there cake and eat it there." My contract does! At times i have to do up to 21 days of 12 hour shifts which can stretch to 15 hours if pushed an zero overtime. Have to do it no choice or walk away.  | |||
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"Well for a start its breaking the working time directive! and no they cant demand you work unpaid, if you walked because they harassed you for not doing unpaid extra you could take them to a tribunal for unfair dismissal. If it wasn't for the fact you could walk away forcing someone to work for no pay is only a little way above being a slave or indentured servant." They can and if i don't i won't get paid! | |||
"Well for a start its breaking the working time directive! and no they cant demand you work unpaid, if you walked because they harassed you for not doing unpaid extra you could take them to a tribunal for unfair dismissal. If it wasn't for the fact you could walk away forcing someone to work for no pay is only a little way above being a slave or indentured servant. They can and if i don't i won't get paid! " If you average more than 48hours a week over 17 weeks you can refuse to do any extra and there is nothing they can do. The overtime must not take your average hourly rate below the national minimum wage and if you are paid hourly rather than salaried then you are entitled to overtime pay. | |||
 oh and at the same time stopped all bonuses... now that was taking the piss  | |||
"Businesses don't work for nothing, so why do they expect their workforce to work for nothing? I was told when I started my new job, that I would not get paid for overtime, so I told them, "Fine, I'm ok with that, I don't intend to do any" They still gave me the job, but now they are expecting me to be available or contactable out of hours. Surely it's my choice whether I answer my phone or not. I show my commitment by the quantity and quality of my work that I do while I am there, and not by home much time I'm sat at my desk. Oh, well, fuck 'em, looks like I'll be out of work again soon. I'm not being bullied into working for nothing " If you don't like it - then quit, start your own company, and become the boss. | |||
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" If you don't like it - then quit, start your own company, and become the boss. " have you tried starting a business? wouldnt lead to shorter hours i guarantee that! they reckon a million hours of free overtime is done in this country every year, says a lot about what we accept really. im paid hourly so get paid for every minute i am in work. we have to have at least 9 hours between shifts, so maybe use that to your advantage?? contracts usualy state that acceptable OT is required, but unwritten thats usually 10% of your working week, over 38/40 hours, agai, dependant on what your contracted to. if its 40 hours, then they can expect 4 hours off you every week extra, BUT, iagree wit others. if they epect you to go in tel them you will require your expenses covered as its costing you too much to go into work, and have had to change your insurance to business etc... see what you can get out of them. | |||
"tend to agree with the majority.. its a piss take.. ask the 'top table' where they are on the unpaid, antisocial hours call out? all in this together etc.." you ted to find that the top table will be there at all hours, when the shit hits the fan. i know our boss has been organising things for the past 2 weeks, while sat on a beach in portugal with his wife and kids... | |||
"tend to agree with the majority.. its a piss take.. ask the 'top table' where they are on the unpaid, antisocial hours call out? all in this together etc.. you ted to find that the top table will be there at all hours, when the shit hits the fan. i know our boss has been organising things for the past 2 weeks, while sat on a beach in portugal with his wife and kids..." am aware personally that being 'a boss/manager' does require extra commitment, hours etc.. when the shit is hitting the fan its should be an all hands approach, so if the company is going under 'everyone' takes a pay cut or works extra etc.. but jacks case just looks like a piss take on the info provided.. look at the pay differentials between 'CEO/ MD's' and 'shop floor' within public and private sector over the last cpl of decades.. its massively out of proportion taking into consideration any increases in profit or productivity.. | |||
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"am aware personally that being 'a boss/manager' does require extra commitment, hours etc.. when the shit is hitting the fan its should be an all hands approach, so if the company is going under 'everyone' takes a pay cut or works extra etc.. but jacks case just looks like a piss take on the info provided.. look at the pay differentials between 'CEO/ MD's' and 'shop floor' within public and private sector over the last cpl of decades.. its massively out of proportion taking into consideration any increases in profit or productivity.. " absolutely agree with you on that point, about remuneration, but dont forget, any decision YOU make, affects how you do YOUR job. and decision an MD/CEO takes, affects the way EVERYONE can do their job, or not. lets face it, if your business was struggling, would you coplain about the wage the big boss was getting if he saved your job? not at all, and you can almost guarantee they wouldnt be doing 40 hours or not being on call. i usually work more than 60 hours a week (this has been a quiet one with only 53) but our company is not making money, and we all need to do our bit to ensure it gets there (and yes, i have done OT unpaid ON TOP of that 60+ hours) | |||
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"well i am paid for a 36 hour week but do more like between 50-60 hours. its kind of expected for the post i hold lol. looking forward to my gold plated pension though lol" Are you salaried or hourly paid? | |||
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"well i am paid for a 36 hour week but do more like between 50-60 hours. its kind of expected for the post i hold lol. looking forward to my gold plated pension though lol Are you salaried or hourly paid?" This is problem It should not be expected | |||
"The bottom line is if a company cannot operate without absorbing the full cost of being in business then it shouldn't be in business. It should never be reliant upon it's workforce working for no pay or no pay rises and I view any company that operates in this way as greedy and manipulative. However, having said that, if a company is has a good business model but is experiencing difficulty in times of hardship and makes an offer to it's employees to work additional hours for no pay but it will make good those hours - either in extra holidays or bonuses later - then I see that as acceptable, so long as it's documented that such an agreement exists." Agree. Post 9/11 the CAA really, and I mean really struggled. Our members in aviation worked liked Trojans to keep the business afloat. Everyone knew the situation, aviation worldwide was in a bad way, so everyone pulled together. Having a business, charging customers for call outs but not paying the operatives...unscrupulous. | |||
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"I think it is disgusting that greedy employers do this. I once worked for a couple that owned a tearooms, I took home £200 a week exactly, then when I received a tax rebate, they reduced my wage so that I still only took home £200. Then when I took legal action to recover my normal wage PLUS my tax rebate, they made me redundant...I don't know how they sleep at night to be honest !!!! "just for the record...I did get my full wage PLUS my tax rebate just before I took it to a solicitor,,funny that !, as they claimed they had no idea they were breaking the law..x | |||
"Businesses don't work for nothing, so why do they expect their workforce to work for nothing? I was told when I started my new job, that I would not get paid for overtime, so I told them, "Fine, I'm ok with that, I don't intend to do any" They still gave me the job, but now they are expecting me to be available or contactable out of hours. Surely it's my choice whether I answer my phone or not. I show my commitment by the quantity and quality of my work that I do while I am there, and not by home much time I'm sat at my desk. Oh, well, fuck 'em, looks like I'll be out of work again soon. I'm not being bullied into working for nothing " good for you, stick to your guns mate. xx | |||
"the only people that work for nothing is a wife and mother been a cook cleaner nurse child care need i say more lol "But this notion needs putting right. A homecarer (man or woman) supports a partner working and therefore should share the partner's benefits. It drives me mad when I overhear a partner (usually a man) saying "I bought my wife a car." when they could just as easily say "We bought a new car!" | |||
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"i work for a company when a certain amount of overtime is expected as stated in the contact. if we go over a certain amount over overtime we will get paid for it but it still takes the piss" Was that in your contract when you signed it? To be clear, you knew when you started the job that that was the case? It's different if it was introduced after you started in which case it was a breach of your contract and you should have refused to sign a new contract. You'd have had a constructive dismissal case to pursue but you would have still had a choice. | |||
"Some people take risks to establish businesses and risk life savings and more to make it work. There are few businesses around at the moment that are not feeling the pinch and charging extra for the call out may be a lifeline in the current climate. I work for myself and one I employed people, but not anymore. The lesson I learned was that no employee gave a shit about the risks I had took to set up that business, create employment and create production for UK plc. I quickly realised that employing people with the right attitude was far more beneficial than employing people with the best aptitude. I didn't go bust but I down sized and now work from home. I will never try to expand and employ people again - too many attitudes like you see on this thread. Believe me guys - there is no god given right to work - you have to fight for it and you have to want it. Why do you think virtually all industrial production in this country either became very hi tech or moved East? Generally speaking, the workforce, like the country is fat with complacency and the looming worldwide economic crisis (the BIG ONE) will make the last five years feel like a garden party and work will be a very scarce commodity." The difference is that when the company booms and makes a profit you feel the benefit that is why you work so hard in setting up your own company and make sacrifices. The people you employ, to them its a job. They come in they do there job get there wages and go home to there partner, kids and friends. That you could not motivate them to do a little extra or set up a remuneration scheme or share scheme that would give them extra pay and benefits if the company made a larger profit is down to your failure to motivate them. You cant blame them for looking out for themselves it is what you were doing. No there is no god given right to work but you have no god given right to profit of the backs of others. | |||
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"Some people take risks to establish businesses and risk life savings and more to make it work. There are few businesses around at the moment that are not feeling the pinch and charging extra for the call out may be a lifeline in the current climate. I work for myself and one I employed people, but not anymore. The lesson I learned was that no employee gave a shit about the risks I had took to set up that business, create employment and create production for UK plc. I quickly realised that employing people with the right attitude was far more beneficial than employing people with the best aptitude. I didn't go bust but I down sized and now work from home. I will never try to expand and employ people again - too many attitudes like you see on this thread. Believe me guys - there is no god given right to work - you have to fight for it and you have to want it. Why do you think virtually all industrial production in this country either became very hi tech or moved East? Generally speaking, the workforce, like the country is fat with complacency and the looming worldwide economic crisis (the BIG ONE) will make the last five years feel like a garden party and work will be a very scarce commodity. The difference is that when the company booms and makes a profit you feel the benefit that is why you work so hard in setting up your own company and make sacrifices. The people you employ, to them its a job. They come in they do there job get there wages and go home to there partner, kids and friends. That you could not motivate them to do a little extra or set up a remuneration scheme or share scheme that would give them extra pay and benefits if the company made a larger profit is down to your failure to motivate them. You cant blame them for looking out for themselves it is what you were doing. No there is no god given right to work but you have no god given right to profit of the backs of others." Well said excession - I've worked for charities, small businesses, huge global enterprises and been self-employed. Employees are always taking on some risk, whoever they're with, it's not just capital investment bodies or personal investors taking risks, employees do: they potentially risk their livelihoods, even after retirement age, as well as risking subsequent employment potential, if they work for a dud outfit, or someone within it who's got a vendetta against them, and so doesn't give them suitable references etc. Sadly, the excessive greed - growing with phenomenal velocity - of the very wealthy speaks volumes about their respect for the majority; many of this suspect bunch employ people, and have seen their obscene wealth sky rocket upwards, even during the recession. This meanwhile, as the majority of the population are becoming relatively poorer. It could be argued that employees generally deserve far more than they get, whilst such obscenely huge sums of money are made off of their backs, their hard graft, their enormous levels of commitment to the many who view them as little better than slaves to be abused for every penny that can be squeezed from their hard labours. Where employees are respected, allowed to share in profits, to an appropriate extent, then this provides a strong foundation for ethical business practice. John Lewis has been a shining example, where its employees are partners, and it's sad that so few businesses are operated in this way. The poster who started this thread, didn't reveal the specific employer, but if they are trading very profitably, and as they are charging customers very handsomely for call outs etc, it would seem very reasonable to pay for overtime, rather than imposing a draconian and selfish expectation that employees should give as much as their employer expects. People in the UK already have some of the longest working hours in Europe, and family life suffers, where deprived of time together etc, as well as appropriate remuneration. | |||
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"Well for a start its breaking the working time directive! and no they cant demand you work unpaid, if you walked because they harassed you for not doing unpaid extra you could take them to a tribunal for unfair dismissal. If it wasn't for the fact you could walk away forcing someone to work for no pay is only a little way above being a slave or indentured servant. They can and if i don't i won't get paid! If you average more than 48hours a week over 17 weeks you can refuse to do any extra and there is nothing they can do. The overtime must not take your average hourly rate below the national minimum wage and if you are paid hourly rather than salaried then you are entitled to overtime pay." Not Ideal but i get paid well for the time i work so its double edged sword. Work like a dog for 3 weeks but get paid equivalent most get in 4 months so no win and have to do it. | |||
"Businesses don't work for nothing, so why do they expect their workforce to work for nothing? I was told when I started my new job, that I would not get paid for overtime, so I told them, "Fine, I'm ok with that, I don't intend to do any" They still gave me the job, but now they are expecting me to be available or contactable out of hours. Surely it's my choice whether I answer my phone or not. I show my commitment by the quantity and quality of my work that I do while I am there, and not by home much time I'm sat at my desk. Oh, well, fuck 'em, looks like I'll be out of work again soon. I'm not being bullied into working for nothing " fk that dude.I work to live not live to work....in the current climate some bosses think they can take the piss....wouldnae be me I just tell em t get fucked cos I don't have a gold plated straw for ass sooking | |||
" Our company don't to freebies, so I'm not going to either "There you have it! I totally agree, i grudge doing overtime for flat rate (single time) nevermind for nowt out the goodness of yer heart! | |||
"Businesses don't work for nothing, so why do they expect their workforce to work for nothing? I was told when I started my new job, that I would not get paid for overtime, so I told them, "Fine, I'm ok with that, I don't intend to do any" They still gave me the job, but now they are expecting me to be available or contactable out of hours. Surely it's my choice whether I answer my phone or not. I show my commitment by the quantity and quality of my work that I do while I am there, and not by home much time I'm sat at my desk. Oh, well, fuck 'em, looks like I'll be out of work again soon. I'm not being bullied into working for nothing " I agree. I work to be paid money. I never have and never will work for free. You want me to do overtime then pay me. | |||
