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What is homophobia and racism?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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What is homophobia and racism?
Is it the same thing to everyone or do some people see it differently?
Would talking about a black friend getting a sun tan be seen as racist?
Would talking about a gay friend wearing a pink t-shirt or dungarees be seen as homophobic?
Is it different when sex is involved? If I don't want to fuck a bisexual man or a black man, is that homophobic and racist? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What is homophobia and racism?
Is it the same thing to everyone or do some people see it differently?
Would talking about a black friend getting a sun tan be seen as racist?
Would talking about a gay friend wearing a pink t-shirt or dungarees be seen as homophobic?
Is it different when sex is involved? If I don't want to fuck a bisexual man or a black man, is that homophobic and racist?"
No, to all those. Next. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I get so worked up about it that I fail to articulate it correctly ..
It’s abhorrent.... there should be no ‘allowances’ for racist, bigoted behaviour. Saying that , I have a friend who is from Pakistan who often says she needs to top up her tan .... now if I said it to her and we were overheard, I’m sure someone would take task with me as they aren’t familiar with our situation.
I jump in quickly to defend against small minded shitheads , but I have to learn to listen first then attack if appropriate |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Racist: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
Homophobia: dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people.
I think it’s a pretty universal understanding as both are in the Dictionary.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Racist: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
Homophobia: dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people.
I think it’s a pretty universal understanding as both are in the Dictionary.
"
Are the comments in my OP racist or homophobic? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If you need to defend comments with terms "the PC crowd" or "snowflakes" or countless other similar termd when challenged about what you've said you are inevitably saying something racist or homophobic.
Likewise any variation of "I'm not a racist but..", I hate to break it to you but yes you are |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There's a black lady that walks by my place occasionally. We chat and pass time. The other day I asked if she was enjoying the summer, she replied, "it's great isn't it, look, I reckon I've gone a couple of shades darker" and held out her arm. I said "so you have, look, I've gone stripey" and showed her my t-shirt arms. We laughed and then carried on our day, both smiling more than we had been. It's what life should be like.
They say you use more muscles to frown than to smile...it must be hard work being homophobic or racist!
I love that lady! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's as simple and as complicated as being the perception of the person who is or could be offended.. "
So it's not about what's said then? If I tell someone to "fuck off back to their own country" how does the scope for someone being offended define that as a a racist comment? Surely the sentiment defones it? |
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"What is homophobia and racism?
Is it the same thing to everyone or do some people see it differently?
Would talking about a black friend getting a sun tan be seen as racist?
Would talking about a gay friend wearing a pink t-shirt or dungarees be seen as homophobic?
Is it different when sex is involved? If I don't want to fuck a bisexual man or a black man, is that homophobic and racist?"
It's about your attitude, not the words - that's where the PC crowd get it wrong IMO. Two people can say the exact same thing, one be racist and the other not. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
Rather than sticking a label on what is homophobia or racist.. I look at it differently...
The person who the comments are made at gets to decide if something is offensive to them...
And if they find it offensive... that is when you should stop... don’t keep trying to find a specific line because that line is fluid depending on who says and what context
There are certain things my friends can say that strangers can’t... but my friends know where my lines are and what happens if it’s crossed
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"Rather than sticking a label on what is homophobia or racist.. I look at it differently...
The person who the comments are made at gets to decide if something is offensive to them...
And if they find it offensive... that is when you should stop... don’t keep trying to find a specific line because that line is fluid depending on who says and what context
There are certain things my friends can say that strangers can’t... but my friends know where my lines are and what happens if it’s crossed
"
Exactly that. It always does my head when people don't understand that whether or not something is offensive is completely contextual. I can tell my partner she is a sexy slut and she will like it. If I said it to my mum she would be mortally offended. |
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"Rather than sticking a label on what is homophobia or racist.. I look at it differently...
The person who the comments are made at gets to decide if something is offensive to them...
And if they find it offensive... that is when you should stop... don’t keep trying to find a specific line because that line is fluid depending on who says and what context
There are certain things my friends can say that strangers can’t... but my friends know where my lines are and what happens if it’s crossed
Exactly that. It always does my head when people don't understand that whether or not something is offensive is completely contextual. I can tell my partner she is a sexy slut and she will like it. If I said it to my mum she would be mortally offended. "
Does my head in when people think they have some kind of right not to be offended  |
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"Rather than sticking a label on what is homophobia or racist.. I look at it differently...
The person who the comments are made at gets to decide if something is offensive to them...
And if they find it offensive... that is when you should stop... don’t keep trying to find a specific line because that line is fluid depending on who says and what context
There are certain things my friends can say that strangers can’t... but my friends know where my lines are and what happens if it’s crossed
Exactly that. It always does my head when people don't understand that whether or not something is offensive is completely contextual. I can tell my partner she is a sexy slut and she will like it. If I said it to my mum she would be mortally offended.
Does my head in when people think they have some kind of right not to be offended "
Whose talking about anyone having a right? Decent people try not to gratuitously offend other people. |
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"What is homophobia and racism?
"
In real instances, they are horrible things. But in 2018, most the accusations you hear of these words won't be genuine and are simply attempts by post modernists /Marxists to exert power via language. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's interesting that the concept of race has no meaning in science in regard to DNA.Race is a social construct.
People see colour not race and colour is just a by product of location .The closer to the equator the darker you are.
So i believe its up to the person of colour to define racism or colourism not the person who thinks they aren't being offensive . |
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"Rather than sticking a label on what is homophobia or racist.. I look at it differently...
The person who the comments are made at gets to decide if something is offensive to them...
And if they find it offensive... that is when you should stop... don’t keep trying to find a specific line because that line is fluid depending on who says and what context
There are certain things my friends can say that strangers can’t... but my friends know where my lines are and what happens if it’s crossed
Exactly that. It always does my head when people don't understand that whether or not something is offensive is completely contextual. I can tell my partner she is a sexy slut and she will like it. If I said it to my mum she would be mortally offended.
Does my head in when people think they have some kind of right not to be offended
Whose talking about anyone having a right? Decent people try not to gratuitously offend other people. "
That's patently not true since we can never objectively control what some people find offensive. Frankly, a vocal minority are offended by statements of fact these days. We should not abandon truth to avoid offending anyone. |
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"It's as simple and as complicated as being the perception of the person who is or could be offended.. "
I managed a trade union office with two black colleagues. A member of the executive committee came into the office and said she'd been working like a nigger.
I was accused of being too sensitive because it was a saying and we should take it as a compliment.
Funnily enough we struggled to see the compliment. |
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"It's as simple and as complicated as being the perception of the person who is or could be offended..
So it's not about what's said then? If I tell someone to "fuck off back to their own country" how does the scope for someone being offended define that as a a racist comment? Surely the sentiment defones it?"
Aah...someone who gets it! |
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"It's interesting that the concept of race has no meaning in science in regard to DNA.Race is a social construct.
People see colour not race and colour is just a by product of location .The closer to the equator the darker you are.
So i believe its up to the person of colour to define racism or colourism not the person who thinks they aren't being offensive ."
So what's offensive is determined by your race than any objective standard? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Rather than sticking a label on what is homophobia or racist.. I look at it differently...
The person who the comments are made at gets to decide if something is offensive to them...
And if they find it offensive... that is when you should stop... don’t keep trying to find a specific line because that line is fluid depending on who says and what context
There are certain things my friends can say that strangers can’t... but my friends know where my lines are and what happens if it’s crossed
"
I agree.
Different kind of prejudice but myself and someone I work with make dark jokes about our own mental health. Definitely not something either of us would take lightly from anyone but else. |
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"Rather than sticking a label on what is homophobia or racist.. I look at it differently...
The person who the comments are made at gets to decide if something is offensive to them...
And if they find it offensive... that is when you should stop... don’t keep trying to find a specific line because that line is fluid depending on who says and what context
There are certain things my friends can say that strangers can’t... but my friends know where my lines are and what happens if it’s crossed
"
Exactly!
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"It's as simple and as complicated as being the perception of the person who is or could be offended..
So it's not about what's said then? If I tell someone to "fuck off back to their own country" how does the scope for someone being offended define that as a a racist comment? Surely the sentiment defones it?"
It is totally what is said to whomever and it is their perception as a person of colour, different sexuality etc that is the point..
It's not the perception of the person who may say something downright offensive, racist or homophobic then try and excuse that by claiming well that is how I see things so it's OK..
Then the excuses you refer to above are often trotted out.. |
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"Rather than sticking a label on what is homophobia or racist.. I look at it differently...
The person who the comments are made at gets to decide if something is offensive to them...
And if they find it offensive... that is when you should stop... don’t keep trying to find a specific line because that line is fluid depending on who says and what context
There are certain things my friends can say that strangers can’t... but my friends know where my lines are and what happens if it’s crossed
Exactly that. It always does my head when people don't understand that whether or not something is offensive is completely contextual. I can tell my partner she is a sexy slut and she will like it. If I said it to my mum she would be mortally offended.
Does my head in when people think they have some kind of right not to be offended
Whose talking about anyone having a right? Decent people try not to gratuitously offend other people.
That's patently not true since we can never objectively control what some people find offensive. Frankly, a vocal minority are offended by statements of fact these days. We should not abandon truth to avoid offending anyone. "
You are a strange one sometimes.
All offence is subjective. Of course it is. In normal social interactions most of us try not to offend people. Sometimes we inadvertently offend people, and if that is drawn to our attention then we will generally stop doing it.
On the truth issue, I happy to think that the doctrine of transubstantiation is palpable nonsense. If I am talking to someone who happens to be a Catholic should I tell them that so that they can have a better appreciation of truth, or would I be being an arrogant offensive twat if I did that? |
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"Rather than sticking a label on what is homophobia or racist.. I look at it differently...
The person who the comments are made at gets to decide if something is offensive to them...
And if they find it offensive... that is when you should stop... don’t keep trying to find a specific line because that line is fluid depending on who says and what context
There are certain things my friends can say that strangers can’t... but my friends know where my lines are and what happens if it’s crossed
Exactly that. It always does my head when people don't understand that whether or not something is offensive is completely contextual. I can tell my partner she is a sexy slut and she will like it. If I said it to my mum she would be mortally offended. "
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Rather than sticking a label on what is homophobia or racist.. I look at it differently...
The person who the comments are made at gets to decide if something is offensive to them...
And if they find it offensive... that is when you should stop... don’t keep trying to find a specific line because that line is fluid depending on who says and what context
There are certain things my friends can say that strangers can’t... but my friends know where my lines are and what happens if it’s crossed
"
Well said |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
It is one thing to mock your own characteristics - self-deprecating humour - it is something very different to mock someone else's.
Phobia is an irrational fear of something. When it manifests itself as an irrational fear of gay people, it simply defines that person as being insecure or in denial.
It's not rocket science. If same-sex relationships are not your thing, don't get involved with someone of the same sex. No need to make a song and dance about it.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What is homophobia and racism?
Is it the same thing to everyone or do some people see it differently?
Would talking about a black friend getting a sun tan be seen as racist?
Would talking about a gay friend wearing a pink t-shirt or dungarees be seen as homophobic?
Is it different when sex is involved? If I don't want to fuck a bisexual man or a black man, is that homophobic and racist?"
Its only if any statement about anyone is derogatory that it would be seen as abusive. |
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"Rather than sticking a label on what is homophobia or racist.. I look at it differently...
The person who the comments are made at gets to decide if something is offensive to them...
And if they find it offensive... that is when you should stop... don’t keep trying to find a specific line because that line is fluid depending on who says and what context
There are certain things my friends can say that strangers can’t... but my friends know where my lines are and what happens if it’s crossed
Exactly that. It always does my head when people don't understand that whether or not something is offensive is completely contextual. I can tell my partner she is a sexy slut and she will like it. If I said it to my mum she would be mortally offended.
Does my head in when people think they have some kind of right not to be offended
Whose talking about anyone having a right? Decent people try not to gratuitously offend other people.
That's patently not true since we can never objectively control what some people find offensive. Frankly, a vocal minority are offended by statements of fact these days. We should not abandon truth to avoid offending anyone.
You are a strange one sometimes.
All offence is subjective. Of course it is. In normal social interactions most of us try not to offend people. Sometimes we inadvertently offend people, and if that is drawn to our attention then we will generally stop doing it.
On the truth issue, I happy to think that the doctrine of transubstantiation is palpable nonsense. If I am talking to someone who happens to be a Catholic should I tell them that so that they can have a better appreciation of truth, or would I be being an arrogant offensive twat if I did that? "
Excellent question, is "faithphobic" a term you've heard much? When people start threads about religion and the inevitable comments about a man in the sky and the Easter bunny come up, do you see me calling people "faithphobic" and reporting them to admin to have them taken down? I may not like your opinions on things, but you don't see me trying to silence you. However, in 2018, conservatives and people of faith aren't afforded the same.
With regards to your comment on trying not to offend people, how in earth does one judge that? If I'm writing a paper on a subject, should I worry if it offends 1 person? How about if 10% of the readers are offended by it? Should I not state facts if enough people are offended by them? |
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"It's as simple and as complicated as being the perception of the person who is or could be offended..
I managed a trade union office with two black colleagues. A member of the executive committee came into the office and said she'd been working like a nigger.
I was accused of being too sensitive because it was a saying and we should take it as a compliment.
Funnily enough we struggled to see the compliment. "
Similar background from the TU angle and totally get why it would not be recognised as a compliment..
Some people will make genuine gaffs, some will struggle to adapt to the changes we are seeing in society but some as we know have an agenda and will at all times push it..
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Rather than sticking a label on what is homophobia or racist.. I look at it differently...
The person who the comments are made at gets to decide if something is offensive to them...
And if they find it offensive... that is when you should stop... don’t keep trying to find a specific line because that line is fluid depending on who says and what context
There are certain things my friends can say that strangers can’t... but my friends know where my lines are and what happens if it’s crossed
Exactly that. It always does my head when people don't understand that whether or not something is offensive is completely contextual. I can tell my partner she is a sexy slut and she will like it. If I said it to my mum she would be mortally offended.
Does my head in when people think they have some kind of right not to be offended
Whose talking about anyone having a right? Decent people try not to gratuitously offend other people.
That's patently not true since we can never objectively control what some people find offensive. Frankly, a vocal minority are offended by statements of fact these days. We should not abandon truth to avoid offending anyone. "
But abandoning the truth to avoid offending is so much easier for many these days. Being offended is the 21st century's favourite hobby, far outstripping train-sets and lego  |
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"It is one thing to mock your own characteristics - self-deprecating humour - it is something very different to mock someone else's.
Phobia is an irrational fear of something. When it manifests itself as an irrational fear of gay people, it simply defines that person as being insecure or in denial.
"
With respect, you're completely wrong. Psychologists have studied (real) prejudice and despite the popular myth that it comes from 'fear', it does not. Prejudice comes from 'disgust' which is a different emotion and therefore attempts to remove a prejudice person's 'fear' won't work because that isn't what's driving their prejudice. |
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"Rather than sticking a label on what is homophobia or racist.. I look at it differently...
The person who the comments are made at gets to decide if something is offensive to them...
And if they find it offensive... that is when you should stop... don’t keep trying to find a specific line because that line is fluid depending on who says and what context
There are certain things my friends can say that strangers can’t... but my friends know where my lines are and what happens if it’s crossed
"
This |
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"Rather than sticking a label on what is homophobia or racist.. I look at it differently...
The person who the comments are made at gets to decide if something is offensive to them...
And if they find it offensive... that is when you should stop... don’t keep trying to find a specific line because that line is fluid depending on who says and what context
There are certain things my friends can say that strangers can’t... but my friends know where my lines are and what happens if it’s crossed
Exactly that. It always does my head when people don't understand that whether or not something is offensive is completely contextual. I can tell my partner she is a sexy slut and she will like it. If I said it to my mum she would be mortally offended.
Does my head in when people think they have some kind of right not to be offended
Whose talking about anyone having a right? Decent people try not to gratuitously offend other people.
That's patently not true since we can never objectively control what some people find offensive. Frankly, a vocal minority are offended by statements of fact these days. We should not abandon truth to avoid offending anyone.
You are a strange one sometimes.
All offence is subjective. Of course it is. In normal social interactions most of us try not to offend people. Sometimes we inadvertently offend people, and if that is drawn to our attention then we will generally stop doing it.
On the truth issue, I happy to think that the doctrine of transubstantiation is palpable nonsense. If I am talking to someone who happens to be a Catholic should I tell them that so that they can have a better appreciation of truth, or would I be being an arrogant offensive twat if I did that?
Excellent question, is "faithphobic" a term you've heard much? When people start threads about religion and the inevitable comments about a man in the sky and the Easter bunny come up, do you see me calling people "faithphobic" and reporting them to admin to have them taken down? I may not like your opinions on things, but you don't see me trying to silence you. However, in 2018, conservatives and people of faith aren't afforded the same.
With regards to your comment on trying not to offend people, how in earth does one judge that? If I'm writing a paper on a subject, should I worry if it offends 1 person? How about if 10% of the readers are offended by it? Should I not state facts if enough people are offended by them? "
I am talking about normal social interactions. If we are having a debate about religion, politics or whatever, then of course you should state your position, then anyone who doesn't want their beliefs challenged need not get involved.
As for offensive ways of debating, it really doesn't lie well with someone who commonly uses the looney left trope and talks about abortion as genocide and who commonly uses ad hominen arguments to complain about that. As it happens, though, I agree that debate on any issue should avoid abusive terms. |
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"What is homophobia and racism?
Is it the same thing to everyone or do some people see it differently?
Would talking about a black friend getting a sun tan be seen as racist?
Would talking about a gay friend wearing a pink t-shirt or dungarees be seen as homophobic?
Is it different when sex is involved? If I don't want to fuck a bisexual man or a black man, is that homophobic and racist?"
I must have woken up in a parallel universe, not 2018.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's as simple and as complicated as being the perception of the person who is or could be offended..
I managed a trade union office with two black colleagues. A member of the executive committee came into the office and said she'd been working like a nigger.
I was accused of being too sensitive because it was a saying and we should take it as a compliment.
Funnily enough we struggled to see the compliment.
Similar background from the TU angle and totally get why it would not be recognised as a compliment..
Some people will make genuine gaffs, some will struggle to adapt to the changes we are seeing in society but some as we know have an agenda and will at all times push it..
"
I struggle to understand why anyone in a meeting would say something like "working like nigger" or the term I've come across that a friend told me she heard in a meeting before was "nigger in a woodpile."
These people are either ignorant beyond belief or have some agenda . |
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"Rather than sticking a label on what is homophobia or racist.. I look at it differently...
The person who the comments are made at gets to decide if something is offensive to them...
And if they find it offensive... that is when you should stop... don’t keep trying to find a specific line because that line is fluid depending on who says and what context
There are certain things my friends can say that strangers can’t... but my friends know where my lines are and what happens if it’s crossed
Exactly that. It always does my head when people don't understand that whether or not something is offensive is completely contextual. I can tell my partner she is a sexy slut and she will like it. If I said it to my mum she would be mortally offended.
Does my head in when people think they have some kind of right not to be offended
Whose talking about anyone having a right? Decent people try not to gratuitously offend other people.
That's patently not true since we can never objectively control what some people find offensive. Frankly, a vocal minority are offended by statements of fact these days. We should not abandon truth to avoid offending anyone.
You are a strange one sometimes.
All offence is subjective. Of course it is. In normal social interactions most of us try not to offend people. Sometimes we inadvertently offend people, and if that is drawn to our attention then we will generally stop doing it.
On the truth issue, I happy to think that the doctrine of transubstantiation is palpable nonsense. If I am talking to someone who happens to be a Catholic should I tell them that so that they can have a better appreciation of truth, or would I be being an arrogant offensive twat if I did that?
Excellent question, is "faithphobic" a term you've heard much? When people start threads about religion and the inevitable comments about a man in the sky and the Easter bunny come up, do you see me calling people "faithphobic" and reporting them to admin to have them taken down? I may not like your opinions on things, but you don't see me trying to silence you. However, in 2018, conservatives and people of faith aren't afforded the same.
With regards to your comment on trying not to offend people, how in earth does one judge that? If I'm writing a paper on a subject, should I worry if it offends 1 person? How about if 10% of the readers are offended by it? Should I not state facts if enough people are offended by them?
I am talking about normal social interactions. If we are having a debate about religion, politics or whatever, then of course you should state your position, then anyone who doesn't want their beliefs challenged need not get involved.
As for offensive ways of debating, it really doesn't lie well with someone who commonly uses the looney left trope and talks about abortion as genocide and who commonly uses ad hominen arguments to complain about that. As it happens, though, I agree that debate on any issue should avoid abusive terms. "
I note that you went ad hominen and strawman (your most common defence strategy for avoiding complexity) rather than answer my question. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Rather than sticking a label on what is homophobia or racist.. I look at it differently...
The person who the comments are made at gets to decide if something is offensive to them...
And if they find it offensive... that is when you should stop... don’t keep trying to find a specific line because that line is fluid depending on who says and what context
There are certain things my friends can say that strangers can’t... but my friends know where my lines are and what happens if it’s crossed
Exactly that. It always does my head when people don't understand that whether or not something is offensive is completely contextual. I can tell my partner she is a sexy slut and she will like it. If I said it to my mum she would be mortally offended.
Does my head in when people think they have some kind of right not to be offended "
Similarly the fact that some people think that they have a right to be offensive does my head in.
And what I really find odd is that these people oftemay claim to not cate who they offend while being simultaneously angry that people are offended |
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"It's as simple and as complicated as being the perception of the person who is or could be offended..
I managed a trade union office with two black colleagues. A member of the executive committee came into the office and said she'd been working like a nigger.
I was accused of being too sensitive because it was a saying and we should take it as a compliment.
Funnily enough we struggled to see the compliment.
Similar background from the TU angle and totally get why it would not be recognised as a compliment..
Some people will make genuine gaffs, some will struggle to adapt to the changes we are seeing in society but some as we know have an agenda and will at all times push it..
I struggle to understand why anyone in a meeting would say something like "working like nigger" or the term I've come across that a friend told me she heard in a meeting before was "nigger in a woodpile."
These people are either ignorant beyond belief or have some agenda . "
Agreed and pretty sure the poster with her background and what she has said consistently on here over similar issues will have addressed that at the time.. ?? |
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"Rather than sticking a label on what is homophobia or racist.. I look at it differently...
The person who the comments are made at gets to decide if something is offensive to them...
And if they find it offensive... that is when you should stop... don’t keep trying to find a specific line because that line is fluid depending on who says and what context
There are certain things my friends can say that strangers can’t... but my friends know where my lines are and what happens if it’s crossed
Exactly that. It always does my head when people don't understand that whether or not something is offensive is completely contextual. I can tell my partner she is a sexy slut and she will like it. If I said it to my mum she would be mortally offended.
Does my head in when people think they have some kind of right not to be offended
Whose talking about anyone having a right? Decent people try not to gratuitously offend other people.
That's patently not true since we can never objectively control what some people find offensive. Frankly, a vocal minority are offended by statements of fact these days. We should not abandon truth to avoid offending anyone.
You are a strange one sometimes.
All offence is subjective. Of course it is. In normal social interactions most of us try not to offend people. Sometimes we inadvertently offend people, and if that is drawn to our attention then we will generally stop doing it.
On the truth issue, I happy to think that the doctrine of transubstantiation is palpable nonsense. If I am talking to someone who happens to be a Catholic should I tell them that so that they can have a better appreciation of truth, or would I be being an arrogant offensive twat if I did that?
Excellent question, is "faithphobic" a term you've heard much? When people start threads about religion and the inevitable comments about a man in the sky and the Easter bunny come up, do you see me calling people "faithphobic" and reporting them to admin to have them taken down? I may not like your opinions on things, but you don't see me trying to silence you. However, in 2018, conservatives and people of faith aren't afforded the same.
With regards to your comment on trying not to offend people, how in earth does one judge that? If I'm writing a paper on a subject, should I worry if it offends 1 person? How about if 10% of the readers are offended by it? Should I not state facts if enough people are offended by them?
I am talking about normal social interactions. If we are having a debate about religion, politics or whatever, then of course you should state your position, then anyone who doesn't want their beliefs challenged need not get involved.
As for offensive ways of debating, it really doesn't lie well with someone who commonly uses the looney left trope and talks about abortion as genocide and who commonly uses ad hominen arguments to complain about that. As it happens, though, I agree that debate on any issue should avoid abusive terms.
I note that you went ad hominen and strawman (your most common defence strategy for avoiding complexity) rather than answer my question. "
I agreed with you that people should not use offensive terms when debating about religion. Though I would point out that religious beliefs are generally accorded more respect in society than other ideological beliefs. You would get less opprobrium referring to the looney left than you would do referring to Catholics as papists, say.
The second paragraph is just disingenuous. We all know broadly what other people will find offensive in any given situation and as I said above, a decent person will accept other people's feelings as valid and try not offend them. Sometimes, you are right, it can't be avoided, but one should avoid it if possible.
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By *lceeWoman
over a year ago
Leeds |
I actually happen to agree with bb for once...I am never happy when I see faithism (faithphobic suggests a fear of religion to me and it is more a complete dismissal, if not outright mockery of faith that I tend to see). I don’t personally believe in a higher power but that doesn’t mean I’m a) right or b) deserve to act superior to those who do.
If you treat someone differently, especially with less respect due to their faith, skin colour, place of origin, sexuality, gender...or simpy for holding a different view to yourself, then you are prejudiced. Simple as that. |
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"Rather than sticking a label on what is homophobia or racist.. I look at it differently...
The person who the comments are made at gets to decide if something is offensive to them...
And if they find it offensive... that is when you should stop... don’t keep trying to find a specific line because that line is fluid depending on who says and what context
There are certain things my friends can say that strangers can’t... but my friends know where my lines are and what happens if it’s crossed
Exactly that. It always does my head when people don't understand that whether or not something is offensive is completely contextual. I can tell my partner she is a sexy slut and she will like it. If I said it to my mum she would be mortally offended.
Does my head in when people think they have some kind of right not to be offended
Similarly the fact that some people think that they have a right to be offensive does my head in.
And what I really find odd is that these people oftemay claim to not cate who they offend while being simultaneously angry that people are offended"
Although Marxists like yourself would like to take it away, we do still have the right to speak the truth. If the truth offends you then i do have the right to be offensive. |
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By *arry247Couple
over a year ago
Wakefield |
"What is homophobia and racism?
Is it the same thing to everyone or do some people see it differently?
Would talking about a black friend getting a sun tan be seen as racist?
Would talking about a gay friend wearing a pink t-shirt or dungarees be seen as homophobic?
Is it different when sex is involved? If I don't want to fuck a bisexual man or a black man, is that homophobic and racist?"
The way things stand today it depends on the person who reads/hears the remarks rather than the intention behind the remarks.
So the answer to all is they may well be.
In answer to your sex question if you refuse to have sex with any black(or white etc.) person because they are a black (or white etc.)person it is racist but at the same time you are free to choose who you have sex with.
Many people do not understand the distinction |
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"Rather than sticking a label on what is homophobia or racist.. I look at it differently...
The person who the comments are made at gets to decide if something is offensive to them...
And if they find it offensive... that is when you should stop... don’t keep trying to find a specific line because that line is fluid depending on who says and what context
There are certain things my friends can say that strangers can’t... but my friends know where my lines are and what happens if it’s crossed
Exactly that. It always does my head when people don't understand that whether or not something is offensive is completely contextual. I can tell my partner she is a sexy slut and she will like it. If I said it to my mum she would be mortally offended.
Does my head in when people think they have some kind of right not to be offended
Whose talking about anyone having a right? Decent people try not to gratuitously offend other people.
That's patently not true since we can never objectively control what some people find offensive. Frankly, a vocal minority are offended by statements of fact these days. We should not abandon truth to avoid offending anyone.
You are a strange one sometimes.
All offence is subjective. Of course it is. In normal social interactions most of us try not to offend people. Sometimes we inadvertently offend people, and if that is drawn to our attention then we will generally stop doing it.
On the truth issue, I happy to think that the doctrine of transubstantiation is palpable nonsense. If I am talking to someone who happens to be a Catholic should I tell them that so that they can have a better appreciation of truth, or would I be being an arrogant offensive twat if I did that?
Excellent question, is "faithphobic" a term you've heard much? When people start threads about religion and the inevitable comments about a man in the sky and the Easter bunny come up, do you see me calling people "faithphobic" and reporting them to admin to have them taken down? I may not like your opinions on things, but you don't see me trying to silence you. However, in 2018, conservatives and people of faith aren't afforded the same.
"
Good point, I hate the trends in 'isms'. |
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"
The second paragraph is just disingenuous. We all know broadly what other people will find offensive in any given situation and as I said above, a decent person will accept other people's feelings as valid and try not offend them. Sometimes, you are right, it can't be avoided, but one should avoid it if possible.
"
Utter nonsense. The left is eating itself because even lefties can't agree what's right and wrong. Let alone liberals and conservatives. That's why you get feminists protesting against trans people at pride. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Firstly, skin darkens in the sun regardless what skin type you have.
Since I've read to the bottom I've actually forgotten the middle points totally  so I can't comment (I'm tired)
And lastly, dismissing a whole race/colour is nothing but naive but if that's your preference so be it. I'm sure there's a whole lot of people with different skin tones to me who wouldn't consider looking at me and that's not something I worry or care about. Maybe that sounds flippant but I'd rather concern myself with those who do than those who don't. |
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"I actually happen to agree with bb for once...I am never happy when I see faithism (faithphobic suggests a fear of religion to me and it is more a complete dismissal, if not outright mockery of faith that I tend to see). I don’t personally believe in a higher power but that doesn’t mean I’m a) right or b) deserve to act superior to those who do.
If you treat someone differently, especially with less respect due to their faith, skin colour, place of origin, sexuality, gender...or simpy for holding a different view to yourself, then you are prejudiced. Simple as that."
Sorry to nit-pick, but I actually believe the attitude has to be derogatory or superior in some way, not simply recognising a difference.
For instance, I find that nearly all the best Lindhop dancers in the world just happen to be black guys, and I seek them out to dance with because they are so good. I don't see a problem with stating that, and neither do they - it's the derogatory attitude that is the problem IMO. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Ahhh the pink dungarees.
If you said ALL gay people wear them then that's just ignorance.
If someone wears them and you say he/she MUST be gay then that again is your own ignorance.
I doubt it is homophobic. You'd have to dislike them. Hence the 'phobic'. The clue is in the name. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Rather than sticking a label on what is homophobia or racist.. I look at it differently...
The person who the comments are made at gets to decide if something is offensive to them...
And if they find it offensive... that is when you should stop... don’t keep trying to find a specific line because that line is fluid depending on who says and what context
There are certain things my friends can say that strangers can’t... but my friends know where my lines are and what happens if it’s crossed
Exactly that. It always does my head when people don't understand that whether or not something is offensive is completely contextual. I can tell my partner she is a sexy slut and she will like it. If I said it to my mum she would be mortally offended.
Does my head in when people think they have some kind of right not to be offended
Similarly the fact that some people think that they have a right to be offensive does my head in.
And what I really find odd is that these people oftemay claim to not cate who they offend while being simultaneously angry that people are offended
Although Marxists like yourself would like to take it away, we do still have the right to speak the truth. If the truth offends you then i do have the right to be offensive. "
It was more a general observation in response to your comment rather than directly aimed at you...
|
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"I actually happen to agree with bb for once...I am never happy when I see faithism (faithphobic suggests a fear of religion to me and it is more a complete dismissal, if not outright mockery of faith that I tend to see). I don’t personally believe in a higher power but that doesn’t mean I’m a) right or b) deserve to act superior to those who do.
If you treat someone differently, especially with less respect due to their faith, skin colour, place of origin, sexuality, gender...or simpy for holding a different view to yourself, then you are prejudiced. Simple as that."
Hesitantly, I would tend to make a distinction between things inherent to someone like sex, ethnicity, sexuality etc which one should never be offensive about and ideological beliefs, whether religious or secular, where satire and mockery is generally permitted. I see no distinction between a belief in socialism or conservatism on the one hand or Islam and Christianity on the other. All are systems of belief which one can choose to adhere to or not.
Notwithstanding that, it's clear that for some people religious beliefs are central to their identity and when engaging with people like that, it's only polite to avoid the sort of language they sr the likely to find offensive. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
With respect, you're completely wrong. Psychologists have studied (real) prejudice and despite the popular myth that it comes from 'fear', it does not. Prejudice comes from 'disgust' which is a different emotion and therefore attempts to remove a prejudice person's 'fear' won't work because that isn't what's driving their prejudice. "
No reason to doubt what you say.
It raises the question in my mind as to whether "phobia", as in homophobia, is the correct term to use when someone is expressing disgust, rather than irrational fear.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ahhh the pink dungarees.
.
Pink dungarees?? I haven't heard about them but i want some already lol! "
It's in the OP. I actually had some when I was around 10 years old plus the photographic evidence.
I don't think people thought I was gay though  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It is one thing to mock your own characteristics - self-deprecating humour - it is something very different to mock someone else's.
Phobia is an irrational fear of something. When it manifests itself as an irrational fear of gay people, it simply defines that person as being insecure or in denial.
It's not rocket science. If same-sex relationships are not your thing, don't get involved with someone of the same sex. No need to make a song and dance about it.
"
A song and dance would be such a gay thing to do. I've got visions of this discussion being played out as a West end musical now |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It is one thing to mock your own characteristics - self-deprecating humour - it is something very different to mock someone else's.
Phobia is an irrational fear of something. When it manifests itself as an irrational fear of gay people, it simply defines that person as being insecure or in denial.
With respect, you're completely wrong. Psychologists have studied (real) prejudice and despite the popular myth that it comes from 'fear', it does not. Prejudice comes from 'disgust' which is a different emotion and therefore attempts to remove a prejudice person's 'fear' won't work because that isn't what's driving their prejudice. "
Agreed and disgust also comes from ignorance |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
With respect, you're completely wrong. Psychologists have studied (real) prejudice and despite the popular myth that it comes from 'fear', it does not. Prejudice comes from 'disgust' which is a different emotion and therefore attempts to remove a prejudice person's 'fear' won't work because that isn't what's driving their prejudice.
No reason to doubt what you say.
It raises the question in my mind as to whether "phobia", as in homophobia, is the correct term to use when someone is expressing disgust, rather than irrational fear.
"
I think disgust is probably what's going on.I often hear on building sites ,guys tell me they find homosexuals disgusting and when they see two men kiss it turns their stomach.These same men often have an irrational fear of young black males and thus instance they feel threatened by black men.Spbi would guess that's fear rather than phobia. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
With respect, you're completely wrong. Psychologists have studied (real) prejudice and despite the popular myth that it comes from 'fear', it does not. Prejudice comes from 'disgust' which is a different emotion and therefore attempts to remove a prejudice person's 'fear' won't work because that isn't what's driving their prejudice.
No reason to doubt what you say.
It raises the question in my mind as to whether "phobia", as in homophobia, is the correct term to use when someone is expressing disgust, rather than irrational fear.
"
Good point. But actually ignorance and fear of the unknown leads to all these. Phobia is fear and when any attack on race/sexuality occurs it's considered a hate crime.
One does lead to another. |
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"Ahhh the pink dungarees.
.
Pink dungarees?? I haven't heard about them but i want some already lol!
It's in the OP. I actually had some when I was around 10 years old plus the photographic evidence.
I don't think people thought I was gay though "
I missed out as a child! I saw some Andy Pandy striped ones in Primani once, I wish I'd bought them lol! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Rather than sticking a label on what is homophobia or racist.. I look at it differently...
The person who the comments are made at gets to decide if something is offensive to them...
And if they find it offensive... that is when you should stop... don’t keep trying to find a specific line because that line is fluid depending on who says and what context
There are certain things my friends can say that strangers can’t... but my friends know where my lines are and what happens if it’s crossed
I agree.
Different kind of prejudice but myself and someone I work with make dark jokes about our own mental health. Definitely not something either of us would take lightly from anyone but else. "
Do you ever make the jokes with other people in ear shot? Or only when it's just the two of you? |
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"
With respect, you're completely wrong. Psychologists have studied (real) prejudice and despite the popular myth that it comes from 'fear', it does not. Prejudice comes from 'disgust' which is a different emotion and therefore attempts to remove a prejudice person's 'fear' won't work because that isn't what's driving their prejudice.
No reason to doubt what you say.
It raises the question in my mind as to whether "phobia", as in homophobia, is the correct term to use when someone is expressing disgust, rather than irrational fear.
"
It's not a term i would recommend, for those reasons. Hard to cure a disease if the diagnosis is wrong. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ahhh the pink dungarees.
.
Pink dungarees?? I haven't heard about them but i want some already lol!
It's in the OP. I actually had some when I was around 10 years old plus the photographic evidence.
I don't think people thought I was gay though
I missed out as a child! I saw some Andy Pandy striped ones in Primani once, I wish I'd bought them lol!"
Awesome! If I didn't have a backside the size of a small nation, I'd already have some in my wardrobe |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Ahhh the pink dungarees.
.
Pink dungarees?? I haven't heard about them but i want some already lol!
It's in the OP. I actually had some when I was around 10 years old plus the photographic evidence.
I don't think people thought I was gay though "
I meant a gay man wearing a pink t-shirt or a gay woman wearing dungarees. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"It's as simple and as complicated as being the perception of the person who is or could be offended..
I managed a trade union office with two black colleagues. A member of the executive committee came into the office and said she'd been working like a nigger.
I was accused of being too sensitive because it was a saying and we should take it as a compliment.
Funnily enough we struggled to see the compliment.
Similar background from the TU angle and totally get why it would not be recognised as a compliment..
Some people will make genuine gaffs, some will struggle to adapt to the changes we are seeing in society but some as we know have an agenda and will at all times push it..
"
That sort of language would get you the sack where I work.
Hard to believe any rational person thinks that language is OK in 2018.
My mum is 80-odd. When I last visited, she mentioned popping out to the "Paki shop".
Paki shop, I'm thinking. Jeeeeeeze!
"Why do you call it that? Does it sell stuff from Pakistan?"
"No, no, it's the newsagents."
"So why do you label the shop by the ethnicity of the people who are running it?"
She tuts.
"I mean, do you also talk about visiting the white person's shop?"
"Oh, it's all just political correctness."
I roll my eyes and change the subject.
|
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"
With respect, you're completely wrong. Psychologists have studied (real) prejudice and despite the popular myth that it comes from 'fear', it does not. Prejudice comes from 'disgust' which is a different emotion and therefore attempts to remove a prejudice person's 'fear' won't work because that isn't what's driving their prejudice.
No reason to doubt what you say.
It raises the question in my mind as to whether "phobia", as in homophobia, is the correct term to use when someone is expressing disgust, rather than irrational fear.
Good point. But actually ignorance and fear of the unknown leads to all these. Phobia is fear and when any attack on race/sexuality occurs it's considered a hate crime.
One does lead to another. "
To be honest i haven't read deep enough to agree or disagree and don't want to overstate my point. I know that racism is environmental and therefore it would be logical that the disgust was learnt rather than given at birth. We all have a fear of the unknown but kids are distinctively non-racist when they play with each other. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ahhh the pink dungarees.
.
Pink dungarees?? I haven't heard about them but i want some already lol!
It's in the OP. I actually had some when I was around 10 years old plus the photographic evidence.
I don't think people thought I was gay though
I meant a gay man wearing a pink t-shirt or a gay woman wearing dungarees. "
I know  |
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"It's as simple and as complicated as being the perception of the person who is or could be offended..
I managed a trade union office with two black colleagues. A member of the executive committee came into the office and said she'd been working like a nigger.
I was accused of being too sensitive because it was a saying and we should take it as a compliment.
Funnily enough we struggled to see the compliment.
Similar background from the TU angle and totally get why it would not be recognised as a compliment..
Some people will make genuine gaffs, some will struggle to adapt to the changes we are seeing in society but some as we know have an agenda and will at all times push it..
That sort of language would get you the sack where I work.
Hard to believe any rational person thinks that language is OK in 2018.
My mum is 80-odd. When I last visited, she mentioned popping out to the "Paki shop".
Paki shop, I'm thinking. Jeeeeeeze!
"Why do you call it that? Does it sell stuff from Pakistan?"
"No, no, it's the newsagents."
"So why do you label the shop by the ethnicity of the people who are running it?"
She tuts.
"I mean, do you also talk about visiting the white person's shop?"
"Oh, it's all just political correctness."
I roll my eyes and change the subject.
"
The thing is with "paki shop", it's an interesting term because it can tell you a lot about important history. The term exists as an observation about the disproportionately high ownership of convenience stores by Asian immigrants at a point in time, most aren't from Pakistan but anyway. The reasons for this are actually quite interesting. Essentially job opportunities for immigrants were limited to say the least, so these immigrants either had to be entrepreneurs or get used to the taste of beans on toast every day. Most chose the former and worked their assess off, often involving the whole family in their business. This created an excellent work ethic which was passed on to second generation immigrants who are now very much over represented in things like medical professions.
Now I'm not going to pretend i don't see what's offensive about the term. But you remove your history at your peril. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It's as simple and as complicated as being the perception of the person who is or could be offended..
I managed a trade union office with two black colleagues. A member of the executive committee came into the office and said she'd been working like a nigger.
I was accused of being too sensitive because it was a saying and we should take it as a compliment.
Funnily enough we struggled to see the compliment.
Similar background from the TU angle and totally get why it would not be recognised as a compliment..
Some people will make genuine gaffs, some will struggle to adapt to the changes we are seeing in society but some as we know have an agenda and will at all times push it..
That sort of language would get you the sack where I work.
Hard to believe any rational person thinks that language is OK in 2018.
My mum is 80-odd. When I last visited, she mentioned popping out to the "Paki shop".
Paki shop, I'm thinking. Jeeeeeeze!
"Why do you call it that? Does it sell stuff from Pakistan?"
"No, no, it's the newsagents."
"So why do you label the shop by the ethnicity of the people who are running it?"
She tuts.
"I mean, do you also talk about visiting the white person's shop?"
"Oh, it's all just political correctness."
I roll my eyes and change the subject.
"
Some of the oldies I over look .Its when someone under 50 uses derogatory terms I wonder if they traveled in time from the 60s.
Unfortunately it seems there is much education yet to be done.Prople still point people out by skin colour rather than the clothes they are wearing.You never say "hey look at that white guy over there ." |
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Most usually context is all. I don't view your examples as racist, knowing that they're not racist from you. Others might use them differently, where they could be part of abuse, perhaps especially the sun tan one.
It's interesting as we have Ben Stokes, the cricketer, who was involved in violent assaults - apparently made some remarks and kicked a cigarette butt towards a couple of gay guys. He's now claiming he viewed them as friends: he didn't beat them up, it was others, who he said he wanted to protect them from a potential assault. Obviously alcohol influences things, especially men who get refused entry to a night club. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
With respect, you're completely wrong. Psychologists have studied (real) prejudice and despite the popular myth that it comes from 'fear', it does not. Prejudice comes from 'disgust' which is a different emotion and therefore attempts to remove a prejudice person's 'fear' won't work because that isn't what's driving their prejudice.
No reason to doubt what you say.
It raises the question in my mind as to whether "phobia", as in homophobia, is the correct term to use when someone is expressing disgust, rather than irrational fear.
Good point. But actually ignorance and fear of the unknown leads to all these. Phobia is fear and when any attack on race/sexuality occurs it's considered a hate crime.
One does lead to another.
To be honest i haven't read deep enough to agree or disagree and don't want to overstate my point. I know that racism is environmental and therefore it would be logical that the disgust was learnt rather than given at birth. We all have a fear of the unknown but kids are distinctively non-racist when they play with each other. "
It was a topic I covered in my counselling studies. Prejudice was a barrier for many counsellors and how they could overcome it. Most psychologists would point to fear and ignorance.
I think your point with children is a good one and highlights that without external influences, we would grow up accepting eachother more. The pitfall happens when children either don't grow up with differences around them or they learn attitudes from their environment |
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"It's as simple and as complicated as being the perception of the person who is or could be offended..
I managed a trade union office with two black colleagues. A member of the executive committee came into the office and said she'd been working like a nigger.
I was accused of being too sensitive because it was a saying and we should take it as a compliment.
Funnily enough we struggled to see the compliment.
Similar background from the TU angle and totally get why it would not be recognised as a compliment..
Some people will make genuine gaffs, some will struggle to adapt to the changes we are seeing in society but some as we know have an agenda and will at all times push it..
That sort of language would get you the sack where I work.
Hard to believe any rational person thinks that language is OK in 2018.
My mum is 80-odd. When I last visited, she mentioned popping out to the "Paki shop".
Paki shop, I'm thinking. Jeeeeeeze!
"Why do you call it that? Does it sell stuff from Pakistan?"
"No, no, it's the newsagents."
"So why do you label the shop by the ethnicity of the people who are running it?"
She tuts.
"I mean, do you also talk about visiting the white person's shop?"
"Oh, it's all just political correctness."
I roll my eyes and change the subject.
Some of the oldies I over look .Its when someone under 50 uses derogatory terms I wonder if they traveled in time from the 60s.
Unfortunately it seems there is much education yet to be done.Prople still point people out by skin colour rather than the clothes they are wearing.You never say "hey look at that white guy over there .""
But you might if there were only one in the room? I still say it's the spirit of the law not the letter of the law..... |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Most usually context is all. I don't view your examples as racist, knowing that they're not racist from you. Others might use them differently, where they could be part of abuse, perhaps especially the sun tan one.
It's interesting as we have Ben Stokes, the cricketer, who was involved in violent assaults - apparently made some remarks and kicked a cigarette butt towards a couple of gay guys. He's now claiming he viewed them as friends: he didn't beat them up, it was others, who he said he wanted to protect them from a potential assault. Obviously alcohol influences things, especially men who get refused entry to a night club. "
Thank you, that means a lot. x
I haven't read much about the Ben Stokes story. Do you think that version is true? |
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"Ahhh the pink dungarees.
.
Pink dungarees?? I haven't heard about them but i want some already lol!
It's in the OP. I actually had some when I was around 10 years old plus the photographic evidence.
I don't think people thought I was gay though
I missed out as a child! I saw some Andy Pandy striped ones in Primani once, I wish I'd bought them lol!
Awesome! If I didn't have a backside the size of a small nation, I'd already have some in my wardrobe "
I'm old enough not to give a damn! I look like a decorators mate when I wear mine, but you know what - I always, always get complimented on them lol! I wore them to a meet once with nothing but black lace lingerie underneath, that was a giggle!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ahhh the pink dungarees.
.
Pink dungarees?? I haven't heard about them but i want some already lol!
It's in the OP. I actually had some when I was around 10 years old plus the photographic evidence.
I don't think people thought I was gay though
I missed out as a child! I saw some Andy Pandy striped ones in Primani once, I wish I'd bought them lol!
Awesome! If I didn't have a backside the size of a small nation, I'd already have some in my wardrobe
I'm old enough not to give a damn! I look like a decorators mate when I wear mine, but you know what - I always, always get complimented on them lol! I wore them to a meet once with nothing but black lace lingerie underneath, that was a giggle! "
I may try some x |
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"Rather than sticking a label on what is homophobia or racist.. I look at it differently...
The person who the comments are made at gets to decide if something is offensive to them...
And if they find it offensive... that is when you should stop... don’t keep trying to find a specific line because that line is fluid depending on who says and what context
There are certain things my friends can say that strangers can’t... but my friends know where my lines are and what happens if it’s crossed
"
How sad is it that this isn't obvious to everybody.
If its meant to offend its wrong
If its ignorantly accidentally offensive politely correct
If it's a friend and daily banter the limits are down to the people involved not the pc bandwagon. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It's as simple and as complicated as being the perception of the person who is or could be offended..
I managed a trade union office with two black colleagues. A member of the executive committee came into the office and said she'd been working like a nigger.
I was accused of being too sensitive because it was a saying and we should take it as a compliment.
Funnily enough we struggled to see the compliment.
Similar background from the TU angle and totally get why it would not be recognised as a compliment..
Some people will make genuine gaffs, some will struggle to adapt to the changes we are seeing in society but some as we know have an agenda and will at all times push it..
That sort of language would get you the sack where I work.
Hard to believe any rational person thinks that language is OK in 2018.
My mum is 80-odd. When I last visited, she mentioned popping out to the "Paki shop".
Paki shop, I'm thinking. Jeeeeeeze!
"Why do you call it that? Does it sell stuff from Pakistan?"
"No, no, it's the newsagents."
"So why do you label the shop by the ethnicity of the people who are running it?"
She tuts.
"I mean, do you also talk about visiting the white person's shop?"
"Oh, it's all just political correctness."
I roll my eyes and change the subject.
Some of the oldies I over look .Its when someone under 50 uses derogatory terms I wonder if they traveled in time from the 60s.
Unfortunately it seems there is much education yet to be done.Prople still point people out by skin colour rather than the clothes they are wearing.You never say "hey look at that white guy over there ."
But you might if there were only one in the room? I still say it's the spirit of the law not the letter of the law....."
True .But wouldn't it be nice if we didn't see colour of skin first .If you point out someone as being that "black guy over there"rather than "that guy with the red shirt drinking the mojto" |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
The thing is with "paki shop", it's an interesting term because it can tell you a lot about important history. The term exists as an observation about the disproportionately high ownership of convenience stores by Asian immigrants at a point in time, most aren't from Pakistan but anyway. The reasons for this are actually quite interesting. Essentially job opportunities for immigrants were limited to say the least, so these immigrants either had to be entrepreneurs or get used to the taste of beans on toast every day. Most chose the former and worked their assess off, often involving the whole family in their business. This created an excellent work ethic which was passed on to second generation immigrants who are now very much over represented in things like medical professions.
Now I'm not going to pretend i don't see what's offensive about the term. But you remove your history at your peril. "
That's true. I think my mum has not caught up the trend when "Paki" went from being descriptive to an adjective of racial abuse, followed usually by "b*stard".
Ultimately, she has no idea of the people's ethnicity or nationality - she is still living in the 1970s. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Rather than sticking a label on what is homophobia or racist.. I look at it differently...
The person who the comments are made at gets to decide if something is offensive to them...
And if they find it offensive... that is when you should stop... don’t keep trying to find a specific line because that line is fluid depending on who says and what context
There are certain things my friends can say that strangers can’t... but my friends know where my lines are and what happens if it’s crossed
How sad is it that this isn't obvious to everybody.
If its meant to offend its wrong
If its ignorantly accidentally offensive politely correct
If it's a friend and daily banter the limits are down to the people involved not the pc bandwagon. "
This about the bottom line really!
Your bottom is lovely by the way! |
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"It's as simple and as complicated as being the perception of the person who is or could be offended..
I managed a trade union office with two black colleagues. A member of the executive committee came into the office and said she'd been working like a nigger.
I was accused of being too sensitive because it was a saying and we should take it as a compliment.
Funnily enough we struggled to see the compliment.
Similar background from the TU angle and totally get why it would not be recognised as a compliment..
Some people will make genuine gaffs, some will struggle to adapt to the changes we are seeing in society but some as we know have an agenda and will at all times push it..
That sort of language would get you the sack where I work.
Hard to believe any rational person thinks that language is OK in 2018.
My mum is 80-odd. When I last visited, she mentioned popping out to the "Paki shop".
Paki shop, I'm thinking. Jeeeeeeze!
"Why do you call it that? Does it sell stuff from Pakistan?"
"No, no, it's the newsagents."
"So why do you label the shop by the ethnicity of the people who are running it?"
She tuts.
"I mean, do you also talk about visiting the white person's shop?"
"Oh, it's all just political correctness."
I roll my eyes and change the subject.
Some of the oldies I over look .Its when someone under 50 uses derogatory terms I wonder if they traveled in time from the 60s.
Unfortunately it seems there is much education yet to be done.Prople still point people out by skin colour rather than the clothes they are wearing.You never say "hey look at that white guy over there ."
But you might if there were only one in the room? I still say it's the spirit of the law not the letter of the law.....
True .But wouldn't it be nice if we didn't see colour of skin first .If you point out someone as being that "black guy over there"rather than "that guy with the red shirt drinking the mojto" "
Well, we may have to agree to differ, I see no problem with it if the attitude behind it is right. If someone is the only white guy in the room, I would definitely say 'the white guy' and not the colour of his shirt.
My best mate is often the only black guy in the room when we go dancing - if he is not offended when I refer to him as the black guy rather than the colour of his shirt, why should anyone else be? |
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"It's as simple and as complicated as being the perception of the person who is or could be offended..
I managed a trade union office with two black colleagues. A member of the executive committee came into the office and said she'd been working like a nigger.
I was accused of being too sensitive because it was a saying and we should take it as a compliment.
Funnily enough we struggled to see the compliment.
Similar background from the TU angle and totally get why it would not be recognised as a compliment..
Some people will make genuine gaffs, some will struggle to adapt to the changes we are seeing in society but some as we know have an agenda and will at all times push it..
That sort of language would get you the sack where I work.
Hard to believe any rational person thinks that language is OK in 2018.
My mum is 80-odd. When I last visited, she mentioned popping out to the "Paki shop".
Paki shop, I'm thinking. Jeeeeeeze!
"Why do you call it that? Does it sell stuff from Pakistan?"
"No, no, it's the newsagents."
"So why do you label the shop by the ethnicity of the people who are running it?"
She tuts.
"I mean, do you also talk about visiting the white person's shop?"
"Oh, it's all just political correctness."
I roll my eyes and change the subject.
"
It wouldn't be gross misconduct in many workplaces but it would need to be addressed, informal resolution to the satisfaction of the recipient..
Repeated use would then involve formal management or in my then particular public service possibly a right hook to the chops..
Not condoned of course.. |
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"Rather than sticking a label on what is homophobia or racist.. I look at it differently...
The person who the comments are made at gets to decide if something is offensive to them...
And if they find it offensive... that is when you should stop... don’t keep trying to find a specific line because that line is fluid depending on who says and what context
There are certain things my friends can say that strangers can’t... but my friends know where my lines are and what happens if it’s crossed
Exactly that. It always does my head when people don't understand that whether or not something is offensive is completely contextual. I can tell my partner she is a sexy slut and she will like it. If I said it to my mum she would be mortally offended.
Does my head in when people think they have some kind of right not to be offended "
So can I be offended if you get offended when I call you a stupid c**t? |
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"It's as simple and as complicated as being the perception of the person who is or could be offended..
I managed a trade union office with two black colleagues. A member of the executive committee came into the office and said she'd been working like a nigger.
I was accused of being too sensitive because it was a saying and we should take it as a compliment.
Funnily enough we struggled to see the compliment.
Similar background from the TU angle and totally get why it would not be recognised as a compliment..
Some people will make genuine gaffs, some will struggle to adapt to the changes we are seeing in society but some as we know have an agenda and will at all times push it..
That sort of language would get you the sack where I work.
Hard to believe any rational person thinks that language is OK in 2018.
My mum is 80-odd. When I last visited, she mentioned popping out to the "Paki shop".
Paki shop, I'm thinking. Jeeeeeeze!
"Why do you call it that? Does it sell stuff from Pakistan?"
"No, no, it's the newsagents."
"So why do you label the shop by the ethnicity of the people who are running it?"
She tuts.
"I mean, do you also talk about visiting the white person's shop?"
"Oh, it's all just political correctness."
I roll my eyes and change the subject.
Some of the oldies I over look .Its when someone under 50 uses derogatory terms I wonder if they traveled in time from the 60s.
Unfortunately it seems there is much education yet to be done.Prople still point people out by skin colour rather than the clothes they are wearing.You never say "hey look at that white guy over there ."
But you might if there were only one in the room? I still say it's the spirit of the law not the letter of the law.....
True .But wouldn't it be nice if we didn't see colour of skin first .If you point out someone as being that "black guy over there"rather than "that guy with the red shirt drinking the mojto"
Well, we may have to agree to differ, I see no problem with it if the attitude behind it is right. If someone is the only white guy in the room, I would definitely say 'the white guy' and not the colour of his shirt.
My best mate is often the only black guy in the room when we go dancing - if he is not offended when I refer to him as the black guy rather than the colour of his shirt, why should anyone else be?"
And btw I do get the point that other people would be offended, because we have discussed it, so I am aware I may be in treacherous waters in feeling the spirit is more important than the letter. |
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"Rather than sticking a label on what is homophobia or racist.. I look at it differently...
The person who the comments are made at gets to decide if something is offensive to them...
And if they find it offensive... that is when you should stop... don’t keep trying to find a specific line because that line is fluid depending on who says and what context
There are certain things my friends can say that strangers can’t... but my friends know where my lines are and what happens if it’s crossed
Exactly that. It always does my head when people don't understand that whether or not something is offensive is completely contextual. I can tell my partner she is a sexy slut and she will like it. If I said it to my mum she would be mortally offended.
Does my head in when people think they have some kind of right not to be offended
So can I be offended if you get offended when I call you a stupid c**t?"
You can, but i won't be |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It's as simple and as complicated as being the perception of the person who is or could be offended..
I managed a trade union office with two black colleagues. A member of the executive committee came into the office and said she'd been working like a nigger.
I was accused of being too sensitive because it was a saying and we should take it as a compliment.
Funnily enough we struggled to see the compliment.
Similar background from the TU angle and totally get why it would not be recognised as a compliment..
Some people will make genuine gaffs, some will struggle to adapt to the changes we are seeing in society but some as we know have an agenda and will at all times push it..
That sort of language would get you the sack where I work.
Hard to believe any rational person thinks that language is OK in 2018.
My mum is 80-odd. When I last visited, she mentioned popping out to the "Paki shop".
Paki shop, I'm thinking. Jeeeeeeze!
"Why do you call it that? Does it sell stuff from Pakistan?"
"No, no, it's the newsagents."
"So why do you label the shop by the ethnicity of the people who are running it?"
She tuts.
"I mean, do you also talk about visiting the white person's shop?"
"Oh, it's all just political correctness."
I roll my eyes and change the subject.
Some of the oldies I over look .Its when someone under 50 uses derogatory terms I wonder if they traveled in time from the 60s.
Unfortunately it seems there is much education yet to be done.Prople still point people out by skin colour rather than the clothes they are wearing.You never say "hey look at that white guy over there ."
But you might if there were only one in the room? I still say it's the spirit of the law not the letter of the law.....
True .But wouldn't it be nice if we didn't see colour of skin first .If you point out someone as being that "black guy over there"rather than "that guy with the red shirt drinking the mojto"
Well, we may have to agree to differ, I see no problem with it if the attitude behind it is right. If someone is the only white guy in the room, I would definitely say 'the white guy' and not the colour of his shirt.
My best mate is often the only black guy in the room when we go dancing - if he is not offended when I refer to him as the black guy rather than the colour of his shirt, why should anyone else be?"
Well we will disagree .I don't like my kids and friends and family being defined by the colour of their skin but on the content their character |
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By *omaMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
I'm not sure where my they fits in here but . . .
Stating a FACT should never be seen as a racist/homophobic/slanderous comment
Asking a question should never be deemed as racist/homophobic/slanderous
Making assumptions could be all of these . . Depending on the context |
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"It's as simple and as complicated as being the perception of the person who is or could be offended..
I managed a trade union office with two black colleagues. A member of the executive committee came into the office and said she'd been working like a nigger.
I was accused of being too sensitive because it was a saying and we should take it as a compliment.
Funnily enough we struggled to see the compliment.
Similar background from the TU angle and totally get why it would not be recognised as a compliment..
Some people will make genuine gaffs, some will struggle to adapt to the changes we are seeing in society but some as we know have an agenda and will at all times push it..
That sort of language would get you the sack where I work.
Hard to believe any rational person thinks that language is OK in 2018.
My mum is 80-odd. When I last visited, she mentioned popping out to the "Paki shop".
Paki shop, I'm thinking. Jeeeeeeze!
"Why do you call it that? Does it sell stuff from Pakistan?"
"No, no, it's the newsagents."
"So why do you label the shop by the ethnicity of the people who are running it?"
She tuts.
"I mean, do you also talk about visiting the white person's shop?"
"Oh, it's all just political correctness."
I roll my eyes and change the subject.
Some of the oldies I over look .Its when someone under 50 uses derogatory terms I wonder if they traveled in time from the 60s.
Unfortunately it seems there is much education yet to be done.Prople still point people out by skin colour rather than the clothes they are wearing.You never say "hey look at that white guy over there ."
But you might if there were only one in the room? I still say it's the spirit of the law not the letter of the law.....
True .But wouldn't it be nice if we didn't see colour of skin first .If you point out someone as being that "black guy over there"rather than "that guy with the red shirt drinking the mojto"
Well, we may have to agree to differ, I see no problem with it if the attitude behind it is right. If someone is the only white guy in the room, I would definitely say 'the white guy' and not the colour of his shirt.
My best mate is often the only black guy in the room when we go dancing - if he is not offended when I refer to him as the black guy rather than the colour of his shirt, why should anyone else be?
Well we will disagree .I don't like my kids and friends and family being defined by the colour of their skin but on the content their character "
But above you said that only people with the right skin colour get to define racism |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It's as simple and as complicated as being the perception of the person who is or could be offended..
I managed a trade union office with two black colleagues. A member of the executive committee came into the office and said she'd been working like a nigger.
I was accused of being too sensitive because it was a saying and we should take it as a compliment.
Funnily enough we struggled to see the compliment.
Similar background from the TU angle and totally get why it would not be recognised as a compliment..
Some people will make genuine gaffs, some will struggle to adapt to the changes we are seeing in society but some as we know have an agenda and will at all times push it..
That sort of language would get you the sack where I work.
Hard to believe any rational person thinks that language is OK in 2018.
My mum is 80-odd. When I last visited, she mentioned popping out to the "Paki shop".
Paki shop, I'm thinking. Jeeeeeeze!
"Why do you call it that? Does it sell stuff from Pakistan?"
"No, no, it's the newsagents."
"So why do you label the shop by the ethnicity of the people who are running it?"
She tuts.
"I mean, do you also talk about visiting the white person's shop?"
"Oh, it's all just political correctness."
I roll my eyes and change the subject.
Some of the oldies I over look .Its when someone under 50 uses derogatory terms I wonder if they traveled in time from the 60s.
Unfortunately it seems there is much education yet to be done.Prople still point people out by skin colour rather than the clothes they are wearing.You never say "hey look at that white guy over there ."
But you might if there were only one in the room? I still say it's the spirit of the law not the letter of the law.....
True .But wouldn't it be nice if we didn't see colour of skin first .If you point out someone as being that "black guy over there"rather than "that guy with the red shirt drinking the mojto"
Well, we may have to agree to differ, I see no problem with it if the attitude behind it is right. If someone is the only white guy in the room, I would definitely say 'the white guy' and not the colour of his shirt.
My best mate is often the only black guy in the room when we go dancing - if he is not offended when I refer to him as the black guy rather than the colour of his shirt, why should anyone else be?
Well we will disagree .I don't like my kids and friends and family being defined by the colour of their skin but on the content their character
But above you said that only people with the right skin colour get to define racism "
In the context of somebody saying something offensive in conversation it's up to the person of colour to definite it not the person being offensive.
Hopefully that's clear now I'm off to read Marx and hug a liberal tree hugger or whatever preconceptions and prejudices you have about others.  |
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"It's as simple and as complicated as being the perception of the person who is or could be offended..
I managed a trade union office with two black colleagues. A member of the executive committee came into the office and said she'd been working like a nigger.
I was accused of being too sensitive because it was a saying and we should take it as a compliment.
Funnily enough we struggled to see the compliment.
Similar background from the TU angle and totally get why it would not be recognised as a compliment..
Some people will make genuine gaffs, some will struggle to adapt to the changes we are seeing in society but some as we know have an agenda and will at all times push it..
That sort of language would get you the sack where I work.
Hard to believe any rational person thinks that language is OK in 2018.
My mum is 80-odd. When I last visited, she mentioned popping out to the "Paki shop".
Paki shop, I'm thinking. Jeeeeeeze!
"Why do you call it that? Does it sell stuff from Pakistan?"
"No, no, it's the newsagents."
"So why do you label the shop by the ethnicity of the people who are running it?"
She tuts.
"I mean, do you also talk about visiting the white person's shop?"
"Oh, it's all just political correctness."
I roll my eyes and change the subject.
Some of the oldies I over look .Its when someone under 50 uses derogatory terms I wonder if they traveled in time from the 60s.
Unfortunately it seems there is much education yet to be done.Prople still point people out by skin colour rather than the clothes they are wearing.You never say "hey look at that white guy over there ."
But you might if there were only one in the room? I still say it's the spirit of the law not the letter of the law.....
True .But wouldn't it be nice if we didn't see colour of skin first .If you point out someone as being that "black guy over there"rather than "that guy with the red shirt drinking the mojto"
Well, we may have to agree to differ, I see no problem with it if the attitude behind it is right. If someone is the only white guy in the room, I would definitely say 'the white guy' and not the colour of his shirt.
My best mate is often the only black guy in the room when we go dancing - if he is not offended when I refer to him as the black guy rather than the colour of his shirt, why should anyone else be?
Well we will disagree .I don't like my kids and friends and family being defined by the colour of their skin but on the content their character
But above you said that only people with the right skin colour get to define racism
In the context of somebody saying something offensive in conversation it's up to the person of colour to definite it not the person being offensive.
Hopefully that's clear now I'm off to read Marx and hug a liberal tree hugger or whatever preconceptions and prejudices you have about others. "
It's not though, there's an objective standard of what a reasonable person would find offensive. It's not up to the biggest snowflake in a group to set the standard. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It's as simple and as complicated as being the perception of the person who is or could be offended..
I managed a trade union office with two black colleagues. A member of the executive committee came into the office and said she'd been working like a nigger.
I was accused of being too sensitive because it was a saying and we should take it as a compliment.
Funnily enough we struggled to see the compliment.
Similar background from the TU angle and totally get why it would not be recognised as a compliment..
Some people will make genuine gaffs, some will struggle to adapt to the changes we are seeing in society but some as we know have an agenda and will at all times push it..
That sort of language would get you the sack where I work.
Hard to believe any rational person thinks that language is OK in 2018.
My mum is 80-odd. When I last visited, she mentioned popping out to the "Paki shop".
Paki shop, I'm thinking. Jeeeeeeze!
"Why do you call it that? Does it sell stuff from Pakistan?"
"No, no, it's the newsagents."
"So why do you label the shop by the ethnicity of the people who are running it?"
She tuts.
"I mean, do you also talk about visiting the white person's shop?"
"Oh, it's all just political correctness."
I roll my eyes and change the subject.
Some of the oldies I over look .Its when someone under 50 uses derogatory terms I wonder if they traveled in time from the 60s.
Unfortunately it seems there is much education yet to be done.Prople still point people out by skin colour rather than the clothes they are wearing.You never say "hey look at that white guy over there ."
But you might if there were only one in the room? I still say it's the spirit of the law not the letter of the law.....
True .But wouldn't it be nice if we didn't see colour of skin first .If you point out someone as being that "black guy over there"rather than "that guy with the red shirt drinking the mojto"
Well, we may have to agree to differ, I see no problem with it if the attitude behind it is right. If someone is the only white guy in the room, I would definitely say 'the white guy' and not the colour of his shirt.
My best mate is often the only black guy in the room when we go dancing - if he is not offended when I refer to him as the black guy rather than the colour of his shirt, why should anyone else be?
Well we will disagree .I don't like my kids and friends and family being defined by the colour of their skin but on the content their character
But above you said that only people with the right skin colour get to define racism
In the context of somebody saying something offensive in conversation it's up to the person of colour to definite it not the person being offensive.
Hopefully that's clear now I'm off to read Marx and hug a liberal tree hugger or whatever preconceptions and prejudices you have about others.
It's not though, there's an objective standard of what a reasonable person would find offensive. It's not up to the biggest snowflake in a group to set the standard. "
If that group or society is made up of mainly white people do we take the average white persons view.Should we believe you when you accuse people of being Marxists Ad nauseam.
I think not. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Actually I was pointed out recently on racial features alone. I am Scots American by geneology. In a very mixed area of London, A group of mixed eastern europeans saw me and I heard, now that is a white man. |
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"It's as simple and as complicated as being the perception of the person who is or could be offended..
I managed a trade union office with two black colleagues. A member of the executive committee came into the office and said she'd been working like a nigger.
I was accused of being too sensitive because it was a saying and we should take it as a compliment.
Funnily enough we struggled to see the compliment.
Similar background from the TU angle and totally get why it would not be recognised as a compliment..
Some people will make genuine gaffs, some will struggle to adapt to the changes we are seeing in society but some as we know have an agenda and will at all times push it..
That sort of language would get you the sack where I work.
Hard to believe any rational person thinks that language is OK in 2018.
My mum is 80-odd. When I last visited, she mentioned popping out to the "Paki shop".
Paki shop, I'm thinking. Jeeeeeeze!
"Why do you call it that? Does it sell stuff from Pakistan?"
"No, no, it's the newsagents."
"So why do you label the shop by the ethnicity of the people who are running it?"
She tuts.
"I mean, do you also talk about visiting the white person's shop?"
"Oh, it's all just political correctness."
I roll my eyes and change the subject.
Some of the oldies I over look .Its when someone under 50 uses derogatory terms I wonder if they traveled in time from the 60s.
Unfortunately it seems there is much education yet to be done.Prople still point people out by skin colour rather than the clothes they are wearing.You never say "hey look at that white guy over there ."
But you might if there were only one in the room? I still say it's the spirit of the law not the letter of the law.....
True .But wouldn't it be nice if we didn't see colour of skin first .If you point out someone as being that "black guy over there"rather than "that guy with the red shirt drinking the mojto"
Well, we may have to agree to differ, I see no problem with it if the attitude behind it is right. If someone is the only white guy in the room, I would definitely say 'the white guy' and not the colour of his shirt.
My best mate is often the only black guy in the room when we go dancing - if he is not offended when I refer to him as the black guy rather than the colour of his shirt, why should anyone else be?
Well we will disagree .I don't like my kids and friends and family being defined by the colour of their skin but on the content their character
But above you said that only people with the right skin colour get to define racism
In the context of somebody saying something offensive in conversation it's up to the person of colour to definite it not the person being offensive.
Hopefully that's clear now I'm off to read Marx and hug a liberal tree hugger or whatever preconceptions and prejudices you have about others.
It's not though, there's an objective standard of what a reasonable person would find offensive. It's not up to the biggest snowflake in a group to set the standard. "
In 1960 in the UK, it would have appeared to the reasonable person. to be offensive to say a woman was a lesbian and you could have sued them for defamation. Not anymore.
Standards of offence change all the time with changing social mores . There's no objective standard |
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I had a black friend who went on holiday. There was a group of us i said show us your suntan then. He dropped his trousers and showed us. He had changed colour. We all hooted with laughter. I knew him. I knew him well and how he would react. I wouldnt have said it to anyone else. When jay and i are playing about i call him a jewish cunt. Im not going to be saying it to anyone else |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I had a black friend who went on holiday. There was a group of us i said show us your suntan then. He dropped his trousers and showed us. He had changed colour. We all hooted with laughter. I knew him. I knew him well and how he would react. I wouldnt have said it to anyone else. When jay and i are playing about i call him a jewish cunt. Im not going to be saying it to anyone else"
You're not alone. Jeremy Corbyn says similar.... |
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"I had a black friend who went on holiday. There was a group of us i said show us your suntan then. He dropped his trousers and showed us. He had changed colour. We all hooted with laughter. I knew him. I knew him well and how he would react. I wouldnt have said it to anyone else. When jay and i are playing about i call him a jewish cunt. Im not going to be saying it to anyone else
You're not alone. Jeremy Corbyn says similar...."
i dont think me and my partner joking around can be likened to jeremy corbyn disgusting me. My partner will call me a crazy irish bog dweller |
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"It's as simple and as complicated as being the perception of the person who is or could be offended..
I managed a trade union office with two black colleagues. A member of the executive committee came into the office and said she'd been working like a nigger.
I was accused of being too sensitive because it was a saying and we should take it as a compliment.
Funnily enough we struggled to see the compliment.
Similar background from the TU angle and totally get why it would not be recognised as a compliment..
Some people will make genuine gaffs, some will struggle to adapt to the changes we are seeing in society but some as we know have an agenda and will at all times push it..
That sort of language would get you the sack where I work.
Hard to believe any rational person thinks that language is OK in 2018.
My mum is 80-odd. When I last visited, she mentioned popping out to the "Paki shop".
Paki shop, I'm thinking. Jeeeeeeze!
"Why do you call it that? Does it sell stuff from Pakistan?"
"No, no, it's the newsagents."
"So why do you label the shop by the ethnicity of the people who are running it?"
She tuts.
"I mean, do you also talk about visiting the white person's shop?"
"Oh, it's all just political correctness."
I roll my eyes and change the subject.
Some of the oldies I over look .Its when someone under 50 uses derogatory terms I wonder if they traveled in time from the 60s.
Unfortunately it seems there is much education yet to be done.Prople still point people out by skin colour rather than the clothes they are wearing.You never say "hey look at that white guy over there ."
But you might if there were only one in the room? I still say it's the spirit of the law not the letter of the law.....
True .But wouldn't it be nice if we didn't see colour of skin first .If you point out someone as being that "black guy over there"rather than "that guy with the red shirt drinking the mojto"
Well, we may have to agree to differ, I see no problem with it if the attitude behind it is right. If someone is the only white guy in the room, I would definitely say 'the white guy' and not the colour of his shirt.
My best mate is often the only black guy in the room when we go dancing - if he is not offended when I refer to him as the black guy rather than the colour of his shirt, why should anyone else be?
Well we will disagree .I don't like my kids and friends and family being defined by the colour of their skin but on the content their character "
I'm not defining anyone by colour - my best mate isn't my best mate because he's black, but because of his big heart, loyalty and wit.
You do as you see fit, I'll continue to say that the black guys are the best dancers. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's as simple and as complicated as being the perception of the person who is or could be offended..
I managed a trade union office with two black colleagues. A member of the executive committee came into the office and said she'd been working like a nigger.
I was accused of being too sensitive because it was a saying and we should take it as a compliment.
Funnily enough we struggled to see the compliment. "
No accounting for ignorance these days |
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"It's as simple and as complicated as being the perception of the person who is or could be offended..
I managed a trade union office with two black colleagues. A member of the executive committee came into the office and said she'd been working like a nigger.
I was accused of being too sensitive because it was a saying and we should take it as a compliment.
Funnily enough we struggled to see the compliment.
Similar background from the TU angle and totally get why it would not be recognised as a compliment..
Some people will make genuine gaffs, some will struggle to adapt to the changes we are seeing in society but some as we know have an agenda and will at all times push it..
That sort of language would get you the sack where I work.
Hard to believe any rational person thinks that language is OK in 2018.
My mum is 80-odd. When I last visited, she mentioned popping out to the "Paki shop".
Paki shop, I'm thinking. Jeeeeeeze!
"Why do you call it that? Does it sell stuff from Pakistan?"
"No, no, it's the newsagents."
"So why do you label the shop by the ethnicity of the people who are running it?"
She tuts.
"I mean, do you also talk about visiting the white person's shop?"
"Oh, it's all just political correctness."
I roll my eyes and change the subject.
Some of the oldies I over look .Its when someone under 50 uses derogatory terms I wonder if they traveled in time from the 60s.
Unfortunately it seems there is much education yet to be done.Prople still point people out by skin colour rather than the clothes they are wearing.You never say "hey look at that white guy over there ."
But you might if there were only one in the room? I still say it's the spirit of the law not the letter of the law.....
True .But wouldn't it be nice if we didn't see colour of skin first .If you point out someone as being that "black guy over there"rather than "that guy with the red shirt drinking the mojto"
Well, we may have to agree to differ, I see no problem with it if the attitude behind it is right. If someone is the only white guy in the room, I would definitely say 'the white guy' and not the colour of his shirt.
My best mate is often the only black guy in the room when we go dancing - if he is not offended when I refer to him as the black guy rather than the colour of his shirt, why should anyone else be?
Well we will disagree .I don't like my kids and friends and family being defined by the colour of their skin but on the content their character
But above you said that only people with the right skin colour get to define racism
In the context of somebody saying something offensive in conversation it's up to the person of colour to definite it not the person being offensive.
Hopefully that's clear now I'm off to read Marx and hug a liberal tree hugger or whatever preconceptions and prejudices you have about others.
It's not though, there's an objective standard of what a reasonable person would find offensive. It's not up to the biggest snowflake in a group to set the standard.
If that group or society is made up of mainly white people do we take the average white persons view.Should we believe you when you accuse people of being Marxists Ad nauseam.
I think not. "
So white people aren't capable of defining objective standards of racism but black people are. Other than the fact it's disproven in psychology, you've just made a racist statement right there. Majority groups are perfectly capable of having empathy with minority ones. |
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"I get so worked up about it that I fail to articulate it correctly ..
It’s abhorrent.... there should be no ‘allowances’ for racist, bigoted behaviour. Saying that , I have a friend who is from Pakistan who often says she needs to top up her tan .... now if I said it to her and we were overheard, I’m sure someone would take task with me as they aren’t familiar with our situation.
I jump in quickly to defend against small minded shitheads , but I have to learn to listen first then attack if appropriate "
I used the to work with this girl who is Indian/British. She would go on a tanning bed every day which I thought was ridiculous. I mean it would be ridiculous to go on them every day anyway but...
She obviously watched too much TOWIE and the like because she spoke like someone from TOWIE and was basically an Indian Barbie doll. |
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"Firstly, skin darkens in the sun regardless what skin type you have.
Since I've read to the bottom I've actually forgotten the middle points totally so I can't comment (I'm tired)
And lastly, dismissing a whole race/colour is nothing but naive but if that's your preference so be it. I'm sure there's a whole lot of people with different skin tones to me who wouldn't consider looking at me and that's not something I worry or care about. Maybe that sounds flippant but I'd rather concern myself with those who do than those who don't. "
Hmm no, not if you're say ginger and very fair skinned. Plenty of people out there who can't tan and just go red if they try. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It's as simple and as complicated as being the perception of the person who is or could be offended..
I managed a trade union office with two black colleagues. A member of the executive committee came into the office and said she'd been working like a nigger.
I was accused of being too sensitive because it was a saying and we should take it as a compliment.
Funnily enough we struggled to see the compliment.
Similar background from the TU angle and totally get why it would not be recognised as a compliment..
Some people will make genuine gaffs, some will struggle to adapt to the changes we are seeing in society but some as we know have an agenda and will at all times push it..
That sort of language would get you the sack where I work.
Hard to believe any rational person thinks that language is OK in 2018.
My mum is 80-odd. When I last visited, she mentioned popping out to the "Paki shop".
Paki shop, I'm thinking. Jeeeeeeze!
"Why do you call it that? Does it sell stuff from Pakistan?"
"No, no, it's the newsagents."
"So why do you label the shop by the ethnicity of the people who are running it?"
She tuts.
"I mean, do you also talk about visiting the white person's shop?"
"Oh, it's all just political correctness."
I roll my eyes and change the subject.
Some of the oldies I over look .Its when someone under 50 uses derogatory terms I wonder if they traveled in time from the 60s.
Unfortunately it seems there is much education yet to be done.Prople still point people out by skin colour rather than the clothes they are wearing.You never say "hey look at that white guy over there ."
But you might if there were only one in the room? I still say it's the spirit of the law not the letter of the law.....
True .But wouldn't it be nice if we didn't see colour of skin first .If you point out someone as being that "black guy over there"rather than "that guy with the red shirt drinking the mojto"
Well, we may have to agree to differ, I see no problem with it if the attitude behind it is right. If someone is the only white guy in the room, I would definitely say 'the white guy' and not the colour of his shirt.
My best mate is often the only black guy in the room when we go dancing - if he is not offended when I refer to him as the black guy rather than the colour of his shirt, why should anyone else be?
Well we will disagree .I don't like my kids and friends and family being defined by the colour of their skin but on the content their character
But above you said that only people with the right skin colour get to define racism
In the context of somebody saying something offensive in conversation it's up to the person of colour to definite it not the person being offensive.
Hopefully that's clear now I'm off to read Marx and hug a liberal tree hugger or whatever preconceptions and prejudices you have about others.
It's not though, there's an objective standard of what a reasonable person would find offensive. It's not up to the biggest snowflake in a group to set the standard.
If that group or society is made up of mainly white people do we take the average white persons view.Should we believe you when you accuse people of being Marxists Ad nauseam.
I think not.
So white people aren't capable of defining objective standards of racism but black people are. Other than the fact it's disproven in psychology, you've just made a racist statement right there. Majority groups are perfectly capable of having empathy with minority ones. "
What a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive .
If you believe white people should define what black people feel and perceive is racist you need to take your neo con ideology outside and give it a good kicking . |
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"
So white people aren't capable of defining objective standards of racism but black people are. Other than the fact it's disproven in psychology, you've just made a racist statement right there. Majority groups are perfectly capable of having empathy with minority ones.
What a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive .
If you believe white people should define what black people feel and perceive is racist you need to take your neo con ideology outside and give it a good kicking ."
If you believe that only a minority ethnicity can see the perspective of a minority ethnicity then you are both scientifically wrong and making a racist statement. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
So white people aren't capable of defining objective standards of racism but black people are. Other than the fact it's disproven in psychology, you've just made a racist statement right there. Majority groups are perfectly capable of having empathy with minority ones.
What a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive .
If you believe white people should define what black people feel and perceive is racist you need to take your neo con ideology outside and give it a good kicking .
If you believe that only a minority ethnicity can see the perspective of a minority ethnicity then you are both scientifically wrong and making a racist statement. "
Sorry as usual you know not what you are talking about.White people are bad at admitting implicit bias and therefore good at denying the realities of racism,
You should maybe read up on ethics All though I have no doubt you threw away your moral compass long ago. |
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"
So white people aren't capable of defining objective standards of racism but black people are. Other than the fact it's disproven in psychology, you've just made a racist statement right there. Majority groups are perfectly capable of having empathy with minority ones.
What a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive .
If you believe white people should define what black people feel and perceive is racist you need to take your neo con ideology outside and give it a good kicking .
If you believe that only a minority ethnicity can see the perspective of a minority ethnicity then you are both scientifically wrong and making a racist statement.
Sorry as usual you know not what you are talking about.White people are bad at admitting implicit bias and therefore good at denying the realities of racism,
You should maybe read up on ethics All though I have no doubt you threw away your moral compass long ago. "
So do you think a majority white jury can give an impartial judgement on a black defendant? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There's plenty of research on conviction rates of ethnic minorities by all white jury's .Its very interesting and the bias is well known .
Read up dear boy and we can chat about it some other time.Im back to work . |
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"There's plenty of research on conviction rates of ethnic minorities by all white jury's .Its very interesting and the bias is well known .
Read up dear boy and we can chat about it some other time.Im back to work . "
Oh but i have my dear boy, actually the conviction ratio of white people in the UK is actually higher (86%) than Black people (81%). Figure 5.03 on page 47 of "statistics on race and the criminal justice system 2016" from the ministry of Justice. That throws a rather larger spanner into the oppression Olympics. |
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A lot of good points are being made. Percentages and studies are good as they make sure we stay grounded in reality. However they should not overshadow personal experiences people have been through and still go through almost daily because of their skin colour. Any skin colour. |
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"A lot of good points are being made. Percentages and studies are good as they make sure we stay grounded in reality. However they should not overshadow personal experiences people have been through and still go through almost daily because of their skin colour. Any skin colour. "
Personally i think representative samples are better than non-representative samples. |
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"A lot of good points are being made. Percentages and studies are good as they make sure we stay grounded in reality. However they should not overshadow personal experiences people have been through and still go through almost daily because of their skin colour. Any skin colour.
Personally i think representative samples are better than non-representative samples. "
Representative as in snide comments as a couple walk through a predominantly white village, or giggly whispers behind middle class hands and those sort of things? Oh look at those poor half caste children, and similar grossly ignorant and bigoted comments.
Statistics might well uphold that the law is fairly impartial, not people's personal experiences sadly. And unless you have directly experienced them, one has little right to tell people how they should feel about them. Whether you think you're supporting or not.
But no point dwelling on it, it won't get fixed in my lifetime, it's just annoying it's pretty much always people who know everything about it that bring it up and go on and on about it, not the people who go through the a tual experience |
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"A lot of good points are being made. Percentages and studies are good as they make sure we stay grounded in reality. However they should not overshadow personal experiences people have been through and still go through almost daily because of their skin colour. Any skin colour.
Personally i think representative samples are better than non-representative samples.
Representative as in snide comments as a couple walk through a predominantly white village, or giggly whispers behind middle class hands and those sort of things? Oh look at those poor half caste children, and similar grossly ignorant and bigoted comments.
Statistics might well uphold that the law is fairly impartial, not people's personal experiences sadly. And unless you have directly experienced them, one has little right to tell people how they should feel about them. Whether you think you're supporting or not.
But no point dwelling on it, it won't get fixed in my lifetime, it's just annoying it's pretty much always people who know everything about it that bring it up and go on and on about it, not the people who go through the a tual experience"
Sorry but can't follow any kind of logic in that. If the statistics are wrong, which is possible, then one just needs to explain how they are wrong. If the statistics are correct, then highly biased personal experience cannot be used to make objective broader statements like "A majority white jury won't objectively judge a black defendant". You can't just dismiss facts because your feelings dislike them. |
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"A lot of good points are being made. Percentages and studies are good as they make sure we stay grounded in reality. However they should not overshadow personal experiences people have been through and still go through almost daily because of their skin colour. Any skin colour.
Personally i think representative samples are better than non-representative samples.
Representative as in snide comments as a couple walk through a predominantly white village, or giggly whispers behind middle class hands and those sort of things? Oh look at those poor half caste children, and similar grossly ignorant and bigoted comments.
Statistics might well uphold that the law is fairly impartial, not people's personal experiences sadly. And unless you have directly experienced them, one has little right to tell people how they should feel about them. Whether you think you're supporting or not.
But no point dwelling on it, it won't get fixed in my lifetime, it's just annoying it's pretty much always people who know everything about it that bring it up and go on and on about it, not the people who go through the a tual experience
Sorry but can't follow any kind of logic in that. If the statistics are wrong, which is possible, then one just needs to explain how they are wrong. If the statistics are correct, then highly biased personal experience cannot be used to make objective broader statements like "A majority white jury won't objectively judge a black defendant". You can't just dismiss facts because your feelings dislike them. "
You have missed my point completely life isn't completely about statistics, it's about real life, and you can't ignore real life when you have zero experience of it, especially when your head is stuck so far up your own ass.
Enjoy pontificating on a subject you know nothing about.hope it makes you feel like a better person. I'll leave these racist threads to all you white experts from now on?? |
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"A lot of good points are being made. Percentages and studies are good as they make sure we stay grounded in reality. However they should not overshadow personal experiences people have been through and still go through almost daily because of their skin colour. Any skin colour.
Personally i think representative samples are better than non-representative samples.
Representative as in snide comments as a couple walk through a predominantly white village, or giggly whispers behind middle class hands and those sort of things? Oh look at those poor half caste children, and similar grossly ignorant and bigoted comments.
Statistics might well uphold that the law is fairly impartial, not people's personal experiences sadly. And unless you have directly experienced them, one has little right to tell people how they should feel about them. Whether you think you're supporting or not.
But no point dwelling on it, it won't get fixed in my lifetime, it's just annoying it's pretty much always people who know everything about it that bring it up and go on and on about it, not the people who go through the a tual experience
Sorry but can't follow any kind of logic in that. If the statistics are wrong, which is possible, then one just needs to explain how they are wrong. If the statistics are correct, then highly biased personal experience cannot be used to make objective broader statements like "A majority white jury won't objectively judge a black defendant". You can't just dismiss facts because your feelings dislike them.
You have missed my point completely life isn't completely about statistics, it's about real life, and you can't ignore real life when you have zero experience of it, especially when your head is stuck so far up your own ass.
Enjoy pontificating on a subject you know nothing about.hope it makes you feel like a better person. I'll leave these racist threads to all you white experts from now on??"
What do you think conviction rate statistics are based on? Fake court cases? Court cases shown on EastEnders? They are based on real life! Maybe you have some personal experience with 0.000000000000001% of those cases but it doesn't mean shit if you're trying to make a broader statement about whether a jury treats an entire sample of black and white people differently. You're the perfect example of what i was taking about at the start, people offended by the truth. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"A lot of good points are being made. Percentages and studies are good as they make sure we stay grounded in reality. However they should not overshadow personal experiences people have been through and still go through almost daily because of their skin colour. Any skin colour.
Personally i think representative samples are better than non-representative samples.
Representative as in snide comments as a couple walk through a predominantly white village, or giggly whispers behind middle class hands and those sort of things? Oh look at those poor half caste children, and similar grossly ignorant and bigoted comments.
Statistics might well uphold that the law is fairly impartial, not people's personal experiences sadly. And unless you have directly experienced them, one has little right to tell people how they should feel about them. Whether you think you're supporting or not.
But no point dwelling on it, it won't get fixed in my lifetime, it's just annoying it's pretty much always people who know everything about it that bring it up and go on and on about it, not the people who go through the a tual experience"
If you don't talk about your experiences then how will people learn? Are the bigoted comments about your kids rare or constant? Do people ever say nice things about them? |
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