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Getting older
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I was feeling a bit envious of the young girls at work looking young and slim and gorgeous in their summer clothes at work the other day- my male collegues drooling - whilst I was a fat frizzy sweaty mess in the corner
I mentioned it to a collegue and her words were " you've had your time "
I don't know why but that depressed me - and I've been thinking about it as I do feel old recently.
Since I turned 40 I've become invisible to men ( in real life) not that I need constant attention lol!
I dont really want to go out anymore unless it's for a lunch thing.
I'd rather stay home with a takeaway and wine at the weekend
Is it just me being a miserable cow or does anyone else over 40 feel like this?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I was feeling a bit envious of the young girls at work looking young and slim and gorgeous in their summer clothes at work the other day- my male collegues drooling - whilst I was a fat frizzy sweaty mess in the corner
I mentioned it to a collegue and her words were " you've had your time "
I don't know why but that depressed me - and I've been thinking about it as I do feel old recently.
Since I turned 40 I've become invisible to men ( in real life) not that I need constant attention lol!
I dont really want to go out anymore unless it's for a lunch thing.
I'd rather stay home with a takeaway and wine at the weekend
Is it just me being a miserable cow or does anyone else over 40 feel like this?
" omg you look gorgeous stop worrying about it |
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I’m not quite 40 but I do work with heaps of younger ladies. I don’t envy them. The pressures they have to look good, have the latest accessory, go to the hip locations and the prices of the nightclubs
Yes. I’m older but I’m having a bloody wonderful time. I can feel age creeping and these wrinkles keep appearing but I can’t help feeling that my time is still now.
Carpe Diem and all that jazz
Viva le Maryfuckingpoppins. Your time hasn’t been had. You just need to have a little renaissance. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Well I am even older... and don't look at the younger guys out there and feel as if I would like to be that age again... I am happy with my age, abilities and experience.
There is lots to be said about young beautiful boys and girls... but let's remember that the older men an women have their place too... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There's always the gym if you want to get back into shape. But nobody can fend off the ravages of time forever. Getting older happens to everyone. (unless you die young.)"
The good thing about being over 40 is that you’re too old to die young |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I often feel like this. I look in the mirror and see frumpy mummy looking back. While my friend (15 years older) always looks so glam and polished. Therefore I don't think it's strictly an age thing either.
Men in real life don't look twice at me. I'm destined to be eternally single as well as obviously unattractive.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I find women middle age women 35 plus generally a lot sexier than the 20-35 age bracket. I think a woman is at her peak around 40 to 55. Just cause they’ve lived a little and had a life. Also they have a certain confidence, plus they’re a lot less annoying than younger women ! |
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Don’t go to the gym, don’t listen to your colleague.
You are beautiful but you need to accept that, going to the gym won’t help you accept it but maybe a chat with a counsellor will?
I saw plenty of ladies yesterday that were older than you, heavier than you and not as pretty as you. They were all enjoying themselves and most were not short of blokes wanting to do a range of sexual things with them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I was feeling a bit envious of the young girls at work looking young and slim and gorgeous in their summer clothes at work the other day- my male collegues drooling - whilst I was a fat frizzy sweaty mess in the corner
I mentioned it to a collegue and her words were " you've had your time "
I don't know why but that depressed me - and I've been thinking about it as I do feel old recently.
Since I turned 40 I've become invisible to men ( in real life) not that I need constant attention lol!
I dont really want to go out anymore unless it's for a lunch thing.
I'd rather stay home with a takeaway and wine at the weekend
Is it just me being a miserable cow or does anyone else over 40 feel like this?
"
No...
When i turned 40 i was a new mum and still married but i was never what you would call frumpy anyway ...i was a size 12 and used to wear leather trousers or thigh boots and mini skirts...and was out every friday and saturday evening
Now im divorced and 53 i still wear the mini skirts but the boots are below the knee... and the going out on a weekend has been replaced with nights in watching netflix but i have to say i still generate interest ..from men honking their horn as they drive past and long may it continue |
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"Don’t go to the gym, don’t listen to your colleague.
You are beautiful but you need to accept that, going to the gym won’t help you accept it but maybe a chat with a counsellor will?
I saw plenty of ladies yesterday that were older than you, heavier than you and not as pretty as you. They were all enjoying themselves and most were not short of blokes wanting to do a range of sexual things with them."
Don't go to the gym? Everyone should make time for exercise, especially as they get older. Although it's not so good if it's purely for vanity reasons/insecurity. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I was feeling a bit envious of the young girls at work looking young and slim and gorgeous in their summer clothes at work the other day- my male collegues drooling - whilst I was a fat frizzy sweaty mess in the corner
I mentioned it to a collegue and her words were " you've had your time "
I don't know why but that depressed me - and I've been thinking about it as I do feel old recently.
Since I turned 40 I've become invisible to men ( in real life) not that I need constant attention lol!
I dont really want to go out anymore unless it's for a lunch thing.
I'd rather stay home with a takeaway and wine at the weekend
Is it just me being a miserable cow or does anyone else over 40 feel like this?
"
Id notice you! |
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"I was feeling a bit envious of the young girls at work looking young and slim and gorgeous in their summer clothes at work the other day- my male collegues drooling - whilst I was a fat frizzy sweaty mess in the corner
I mentioned it to a collegue and her words were " you've had your time "
I don't know why but that depressed me - and I've been thinking about it as I do feel old recently.
Since I turned 40 I've become invisible to men ( in real life) not that I need constant attention lol!
I dont really want to go out anymore unless it's for a lunch thing.
I'd rather stay home with a takeaway and wine at the weekend
Is it just me being a miserable cow or does anyone else over 40 feel like this?
"
move closer to me i will show you your not invisible |
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By *SAchickWoman
over a year ago
Hillside desolate |
I know you weren't looking for compliments op but I'll give you one anyway because I think you're sexy as fuck
And I've not hit 40 yet but most weekends I'd rather stay home with some wine and a takeaway too! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I often feel like this. I look in the mirror and see frumpy mummy looking back. While my friend (15 years older) always looks so glam and polished. Therefore I don't think it's strictly an age thing either.
Men in real life don't look twice at me. I'm destined to be eternally single as well as obviously unattractive.
"
Must be some strange blokes by you. Id certainly notice you! |
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I work with some younger people and some older. I don't feel envious of the younger ones at all. Some are totally clueless and seem to have no life skills at all (I'm talking mid 20s here), others are stressing about life choices like doing a postgraduate degree, moving to their first place, others are getting married and having babies. I'm quite happy to have done all that and be at this point in my life where my kids are quite independent and I'm more sensible with money etc. Not that I begrudge them enjoying it, I'm just glad I've already done it!
When I've been out with colleagues socially I've not felt old or past it, in fact the younger ones tend to go home earlier and lack the confidence to speak to men!
I'm quite happy being in my mid 30s |
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I feel the complete opposite!! I reached 40 and I left a job I hated.. I thought so I stay miserable or do something about it.... I got out of an unhappy marriage... I now live in my own home... can please myself and have lost loads of weight!!!
It hasn’t been easy in fact bloody horrendous and I’m still healing but I wouldn’t change a thing!!
Life is too short to waste!! It’s easy to get down about all the negatives but try to focus on the positives..and do what you want to do to make you happy!! Even just little things!! I hope you feel better soon!! Hugs xxx |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I wouldn’t want to be that young again. Yes I don’t seem to make men’s heads turn anymore but that’s ok I’m having more fun now. And we’re probably more confident at our ages than a lot of young girls are x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I am married to a 62 year old. I am 70 years old, I too thought that we were too old, Then we decided to join this site, WOW. If you ever think you are too old, then think again, we have been overwhelmed on here with singles and couples, from all over, willing to travel from all parts of the Uk including N/Ireland, Scotland,Wales, even Ohio and other states in the US, whom want to meet up with us. Your age is only a number, nothing more. Just believe in yourself. Get out there and strut your stuff. You will get what you are looking for. I must add becoming Bi curious helped a lot . But it is not for every one. Stay happy xx. PS I have had a lot of support from this site with personal problems. I would like to thank every one for your comments |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I know you weren't looking for compliments op but I'll give you one anyway because I think you're sexy as fuck
And I've not hit 40 yet but most weekends I'd rather stay home with some wine and a takeaway too! "
Please describe what the OP looks like, I can’t view her, has she got a kind face ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am married to a 62 year old. I am 70 years old, I too thought that we were too old, Then we decided to join this site, WOW. If you ever think you are too old, then think again, we have been overwhelmed on here with singles and couples, from all over, willing to travel from all parts of the Uk including N/Ireland, Scotland,Wales, even Ohio and other states in the US, whom want to meet up with us. Your age is only a number, nothing more. Just believe in yourself. Get out there and strut your stuff. You will get what you are looking for. I must add becoming Bi curious helped a lot . But it is not for every one. Stay happy xx. PS I have had a lot of support from this site with personal problems. I would like to thank every one for your comments "
It says you're both 62 on your profile... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I was feeling a bit envious of the young girls at work looking young and slim and gorgeous in their summer clothes at work the other day- my male collegues drooling - whilst I was a fat frizzy sweaty mess in the corner
I mentioned it to a collegue and her words were " you've had your time "
I don't know why but that depressed me - and I've been thinking about it as I do feel old recently.
Since I turned 40 I've become invisible to men ( in real life) not that I need constant attention lol!
I dont really want to go out anymore unless it's for a lunch thing.
I'd rather stay home with a takeaway and wine at the weekend
Is it just me being a miserable cow or does anyone else over 40 feel like this?
"
A mere youngster
Age is just a number so don't be put off by any "you've had your time" crap
Go out
Enjoy yourself and I'm sure that you are noticed by men
And I'm sure on here there are loads of men who would appreciate you. I know if I lived near you I'd love to meet up
Keep fabbing |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"To be honest I am 25 and feel exactly the same."
You’re envious of the young girls, wearing there summer dresses, I’m sure you could squeezed into one big fella ?! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Age is just a mumber !
That is what they tell us ! We all get older and the system and bodywork is not what it was .
As someone said here use the Gym .. if it bothers you . It shouldnt btw ! Great profile pictures !!
However , it doesnt help anyone complimenting you unless you feel it yourself .
I guess maybe try and adopt a less critical approach to yoursrlf . If necessary pop and see a counsellor or therapist ? All sorts of things work for us .. in my case I grasped the nettle and went to a nudist beach .. my self concious side lasted 5 minutes .. I was jus one in a hundred bodies all ages all shapes and sizes . It was a good decision on my part as I gained an appreciation of fuller figures I didnt have before . So it opened up way more things in life for me to enjoy .. very liberating and has become a regular thing for me now a bit extreme perhaps ?
try something different , daring or just stick on an outfit you think may be too risque and watch the effect !
End of the day our lives are short and subject to termination at any moment
You owe it to yourself to be happy or try to be .live in the moment and all that .
Go for it!
Good luck |
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Op I'm fast approaching 50 and although yes I'm gutted at my age I rarely act it. I dress reasonable young least young enough for my lad to keep having my clothes away. I still drive and own some extremely nice cars and bikes so yes I'm financially secure but then I own and run 2 business of my own and have a full time job. So even though I'm gutted at my age last thing I'd want is to go back and do it all over again. So my plan is now to embarrass my kids as much as possible and grow old disgracefully. Oh yes and if you'd not quite worked it out yet op I'd fucking love to nail ya and I'd be back for 2nds 3rds 4ths and most definitely 5ths no matter the miles |
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"Op I'm fast approaching 50 and although yes I'm gutted at my age I rarely act it. I dress reasonable young least young enough for my lad to keep having my clothes away. I still drive and own some extremely nice cars and bikes so yes I'm financially secure but then I own and run 2 business of my own and have a full time job. So even though I'm gutted at my age last thing I'd want is to go back and do it all over again. So my plan is now to embarrass my kids as much as possible and grow old disgracefully. Oh yes and if you'd not quite worked it out yet op I'd fucking love to nail ya and I'd be back for 2nds 3rds 4ths and most definitely 5ths no matter the miles "
What's your nicest car? sorry, car geek here lol. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I don’t feel like that at all and I’m 47. Got divorced recently and I’m loving life. I always have done. I didn’t have kids so I can do what I want, when I want. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am married to a 62 year old. I am 70 years old, I too thought that we were too old, Then we decided to join this site, WOW. If you ever think you are too old, then think again, we have been overwhelmed on here with singles and couples, from all over, willing to travel from all parts of the Uk including N/Ireland, Scotland,Wales, even Ohio and other states in the US, whom want to meet up with us. Your age is only a number, nothing more. Just believe in yourself. Get out there and strut your stuff. You will get what you are looking for. I must add becoming Bi curious helped a lot . But it is not for every one. Stay happy xx. PS I have had a lot of support from this site with personal problems. I would like to thank every one for your comments "
Great comment
Certainly you dont look your age either |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Our culture venerates people in their 20s. If there was a blanket ban on people below 30 featuring on any kind of media you'd be surprised by how silent everything would suddenly get. They are our holy cows to whom the world comes on a plate. They are the centre of the universe, the exciting fringe of everything that's important.
What a load of bullshit!
After 30 the world stops coming to you and you have to start making things work for you. For those of us pretty people who were more venerated than others this descent down to reality can be a hard blow. For the rest of us it was all a fucking joke anyway. So it's like finally being able to get away from a bunch of giggly twats who are super into themselves.
In the descent to reality it's important to jettison the old thinking. Don't be fooled into imagining life's over and you're no longer on the cutting edge. The whole thing was a sham anyway. I'd hazard a guess that most pop songs are written by people in their 40s and only performed by kiddies to help sell them. The average age of a successful startup entrepreneur is 45. The reality is that very few people in their 20s ever really were as central to our culture as they all imagined they were.
And sites like Fab are proving that behind the thick curtains of the 40 somethings body shyness lots of people in their 40s and 50s continue to be pretty darn sexy and so really shouldn't have the body issues they have. As such, I predict that, just as older people now dress much cooler and younger than they once did, older women in the future will wear far more revealing clothing and celebrate their sexuality deep into their 50s. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So many stunning people on here.
I have spent the day getting mails referring to me as an older woman at 34... how to make someone feel crap! "
I had someone refer to me as an older guy. Broke my heart. |
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I've long since stopped wishing for things I haven't got/lost ie (luscious locks, long slim legs and perky tits) and appreciate what I have.
That said, my middle daughter has announced she's pregnant again. Five grandchildren in three years have made me feel very old, but I'm trying (albeit with limited success if I'm honest) to get a grip and enjoy this phase of my life. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Profile is wrong, unfortunately, I tried to change the DOB of my other half to read just her, as I have a medical problem now. but the other half would like to carry on. but the site informed me that you can only change your DOB once, and only once. I tried to change it back, but admin will not let me. sorry. xx I do explain this when contacted. |
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"So many stunning people on here.
I have spent the day getting mails referring to me as an older woman at 34... how to make someone feel crap! "
I get that a lot - often from guys 1 or 2 years younger! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So many stunning people on here.
I have spent the day getting mails referring to me as an older woman at 34... how to make someone feel crap! "
Hah hah hah - just ignore the silly boys - they don't know how to treat a woman and are probably a crap f**k. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I've had times when I felt similar, but feel more body-confident and sexually fulfilled at nearly 50 than I have for years. You've had some amazing compliments on this thread, OP: a little Fab ego-boost can do wonders! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm 42 , a mom & a nan, slightly over weight with old lady problems fast approaching, but I certainly know I've not "had my day" !!!
I get more attention now than I did when I was younger , I still have a postive & fun attitude and I'll dress however I damn well want , as long as it makes me feel good.
I always say don't compare yourself to any one , we are all individuals and that should be celebrated xx |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I was feeling a bit envious of the young girls at work looking young and slim and gorgeous in their summer clothes at work the other day- my male collegues drooling - whilst I was a fat frizzy sweaty mess in the corner
I mentioned it to a collegue and her words were " you've had your time "
I don't know why but that depressed me - and I've been thinking about it as I do feel old recently.
Since I turned 40 I've become invisible to men ( in real life) not that I need constant attention lol!
I dont really want to go out anymore unless it's for a lunch thing.
I'd rather stay home with a takeaway and wine at the weekend
Is it just me being a miserable cow or does anyone else over 40 feel like this?
"
You've become invisible?
You can hit me up anyday haha
Its only natural to get broody |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So many stunning people on here.
I have spent the day getting mails referring to me as an older woman at 34... how to make someone feel crap! "
I get those and I’m only 28 myself |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I was feeling a bit envious of the young girls at work looking young and slim and gorgeous in their summer clothes at work the other day- my male collegues drooling - whilst I was a fat frizzy sweaty mess in the corner
I mentioned it to a collegue and her words were " you've had your time "
I don't know why but that depressed me - and I've been thinking about it as I do feel old recently.
Since I turned 40 I've become invisible to men ( in real life) not that I need constant attention lol!
I dont really want to go out anymore unless it's for a lunch thing.
I'd rather stay home with a takeaway and wine at the weekend
Is it just me being a miserable cow or does anyone else over 40 feel like this?
" you have nice hair and teeth, so you will not go unnoticed. So stop being a miserable cow...wait until you are nearing 50! |
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By *oxy_minxWoman
over a year ago
Scotland - Aberdeen |
Well I had my first proper date in over 10 years last night, it was good, I admit I was a bit guarded as it has been so long but low and behold the guy is besotted with me, we had a brief walk along the beach tonight followed by a drink/coffee and he has just texted me to say he really wants me.
Us over forties are not invisible in the slightest so get yourself out there! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"To be honest I am 25 and feel exactly the same.
You’re envious of the young girls, wearing there summer dresses, I’m sure you could squeezed into one big fella ?!"
Their* and yes I long for the day clothes become gender neutral! |
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I get a lot more attention since I turned 40 than I did when I was younger. I put it down to a complete acceptance of my body (wobbly bits and all), and the confidence that that brings...also that I know what I want sexually and i'm not afraid to go out and get it.
Everyone is attractive in their own way, and you look pretty darn sexy to me OP...hold that pretty head high, and you'll be getting admiring glances before you know it |
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"I'm nowhere near as attractive as I was when I was 20 something and certainly not comparable to the young ones of today. Meh. I'm more than beauty. " it takes men a long time to realise beauty is more than skin deep. Mature women have an aura of confidence that younger women just don’t have.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm nowhere near as attractive as I was when I was 20 something and certainly not comparable to the young ones of today. Meh. I'm more than beauty. it takes men a long time to realise beauty is more than skin deep. Mature women have an aura of confidence that younger women just don’t have. "
From listening to the women of the forum I wouldn't say that confidence comes with age. I found losing 4 stone helped immensely with my confidence. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm nowhere near as attractive as I was when I was 20 something and certainly not comparable to the young ones of today. Meh. I'm more than beauty. it takes men a long time to realise beauty is more than skin deep. Mature women have an aura of confidence that younger women just don’t have.
From listening to the women of the forum I wouldn't say that confidence comes with age. I found losing 4 stone helped immensely with my confidence. "
This.... i lost 4 stone through stress after my marriage ended..it did wonders for my self esteem |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"To be honest I am 25 and feel exactly the same.
You’re envious of the young girls, wearing there summer dresses, I’m sure you could squeezed into one big fella ?!
Their* and yes I long for the day clothes become gender neutral!"
You plum |
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I'm physically less attractive when I was younger but I'm more confident, sensual and comfortable in my own skin.
Young girls might get superficial attention but how many are happy within themselves? I'd rather attention from those who see beyond that |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I was feeling a bit envious of the young girls at work looking young and slim and gorgeous in their summer clothes at work the other day- my male collegues drooling - whilst I was a fat frizzy sweaty mess in the corner
I mentioned it to a collegue and her words were " you've had your time "
I don't know why but that depressed me - and I've been thinking about it as I do feel old recently.
Since I turned 40 I've become invisible to men ( in real life) not that I need constant attention lol!
I dont really want to go out anymore unless it's for a lunch thing.
I'd rather stay home with a takeaway and wine at the weekend
Is it just me being a miserable cow or does anyone else over 40 feel like this?
"
Everyone feels like this at some point.
We’re not quite 40 yet but neither of us have the desire to party like we did 4 or 5 years ago.
Don’t let it get to you, fill your life with activities that make you happy and don’t pay so much attention to all the ‘fun’ the youth are having, they have all the same feelings we do xx |
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"Everyone feels like this at some point.
We’re not quite 40 yet but neither of us have the desire to party like we did 4 or 5 years ago.
Don’t let it get to you, fill your life with activities that make you happy and don’t pay so much attention to all the ‘fun’ the youth are having, they have all the same feelings we do xx"
I partied like a teenager last weekend, out until 4am Friday and Saturday. I was still tired on Thursday |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Regardless of age,confidence is the one of the most attractive attributes a woman can have,we live in a superficial world where people are trying to buy the "it" factor without even knowing what it is!...,desperate for attention, you only have to look at Instagram and Facebook,checking constantly for likes or comments telling them they're gorgeous and actually believing all of them..#gorgeous hun"..."wow babe you should be a model"....I see so many gorgeous women in their 40s,50s and 60s, they dress well,but they dress for themselves, they want to look good but they're not looking for approval, they don't need to! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Everyone feels like this at some point.
We’re not quite 40 yet but neither of us have the desire to party like we did 4 or 5 years ago.
Don’t let it get to you, fill your life with activities that make you happy and don’t pay so much attention to all the ‘fun’ the youth are having, they have all the same feelings we do xx
I partied like a teenager last weekend, out until 4am Friday and Saturday. I was still tired on Thursday "
Yes, that’s exactly how it happens for us when we have a big blowout |
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Feel the same. Wish I could do it all again (I would be ten times worse)
My Nephews are in their early 20’s and are killing it on the dating scene. Seems to be much easier for them these days.
But I can only play with the hands I’m dealt. I look after myself and I do ok. My body and social skills are on point just the hairline has taken a bashing. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm nowhere near as attractive as I was when I was 20 something and certainly not comparable to the young ones of today. Meh. I'm more than beauty. it takes men a long time to realise beauty is more than skin deep. Mature women have an aura of confidence that younger women just don’t have.
From listening to the women of the forum I wouldn't say that confidence comes with age. I found losing 4 stone helped immensely with my confidence.
This.... i lost 4 stone through stress after my marriage ended..it did wonders for my self esteem "
Absolutely agree, achieving desired weight works wonder for self esteem.
I’ve found with age it’s an uphill battle to just maintain as opposed to losing weight. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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My life truly began at 40. I k ow I'm.out of most people's age ranges but I don't mind .
I feel great , I've the same waistline I had at 18 . I'm active happy and life is to be savoured |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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OP, I do understand where you’re coming from.
I sometimes feel I’d love to be in my 30’s again, the days of being young, single, with disposable cash and partying all weekend. Much easier to arrange now with all the social media in place too....
Overall though I’m way more confident & happier now than I was then and although I feel ‘that time’ has passed there’s new time to be had & enjoyed. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Well I think the older lady is soo sexy!.the younger generation seem to have a chip on their shoulder. Give me a polite, sexy and experienced girl every time!
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm not over 40 so not sure my opinion counts, however, there is a woman that goes to my gym that is over 40 and I would definitely jump into bed with her! She does look her age but she is beautiful and has an elegance about her, unlike some of the young and pretty girls in the gym.
I can think of a few more older woman that I would love to get sexy with.. older men too of course.
Don't count yourself out yet ladies!! Some of us younger folk prefer experience and class.
Eve. x |
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