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Girls who shoot...
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Any secret shooters on here? And I don’t mean porn. I’m talking about guns, Be it Clays or other things (saves the haters hating if I don’t put animals.........ahhhh shit)
I apologise now to all the vegans who are about to kick off.
But seriously, im aware of a few blokes on here that hunt/stalk/shoot etc but not of any women. Anyone brave/proud enough to put their hand up? |
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I was shooting vermin on my grandads farm from as soon as I could hold a shotgun.
Pretty good shot with a crossbow too.
I don't believe in hunting for sport though, killing another living creature for fun, isn't fun.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I was shooting vermin on my grandads farm from as soon as I could hold a shotgun.
Pretty good shot with a crossbow too.
I don't believe in hunting for sport though, killing another living creature for fun, isn't fun.
"
Each to their own. But at least you put your hand up. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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How people get joy from shooting any animal just for the sport of it is beyond me. Whether it’s deer, birds, bears or elephants doesn’t matter. Just leave them be and shoot at targets or something. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"How people get joy from shooting any animal just for the sport of it is beyond me. Whether it’s deer, birds, bears or elephants doesn’t matter. Just leave them be and shoot at targets or something. "
So if it’s not for sport, but for work is that ok? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How people get joy from shooting any animal just for the sport of it is beyond me. Whether it’s deer, birds, bears or elephants doesn’t matter. Just leave them be and shoot at targets or something.
So if it’s not for sport, but for work is that ok?"
I appreciate the need to cull certain animals. It was specifically killing for fun I don’t agree with. |
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My dad used to be a committee member of a clay shooting club and I went with him every other weekend for several years. I kept trying but just couldn't get the hang of it - I came to the conclusion I'm a crap shot and couldn't hit a target the size of a double decker bus  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"How people get joy from shooting any animal just for the sport of it is beyond me. Whether it’s deer, birds, bears or elephants doesn’t matter. Just leave them be and shoot at targets or something.
So if it’s not for sport, but for work is that ok?
I appreciate the need to cull certain animals. It was specifically killing for fun I don’t agree with. "
That’s a fair opinion. I’m not one to be all defensive about what I do. People will agree and people will disagree. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"My dad used to be a committee member of a clay shooting club and I went with him every other weekend for several years. I kept trying but just couldn't get the hang of it - I came to the conclusion I'm a crap shot and couldn't hit a target the size of a double decker bus "
At least you’re honest lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How people get joy from shooting any animal just for the sport of it is beyond me. Whether it’s deer, birds, bears or elephants doesn’t matter. Just leave them be and shoot at targets or something. "
small appendage syndrome |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I shoot clays and fac too. Hubby shoots fac and yes he hunts he got me into it he doesn't like the shotguns too noisey
Ear plugs ...?"
He prefers the stalk |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How people get joy from shooting any animal just for the sport of it is beyond me. Whether it’s deer, birds, bears or elephants doesn’t matter. Just leave them be and shoot at targets or something. "
Couldn't agree more.
I actually have no issue with people who hunt for food, as long as its done quickly and as humanely as possible.
However, the second you start gloating and taking pictures it isn't hunting for food it's trophy/sport hunting, and you are then just another sadist ass hole with a superiority complex. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I shoot clays and fac too. Hubby shoots fac and yes he hunts he got me into it he doesn't like the shotguns too noisey
Ear plugs ...?
He prefers the stalk "
I assume his rifle is moderated then lol |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"If you kill it eat it. Unless it's vermin. "
I try to always consume what Iv eaten or at least sell it to the local game dealer or freeze it myself. Nothing better than fresh wild meat |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"How people get joy from shooting any animal just for the sport of it is beyond me. Whether it’s deer, birds, bears or elephants doesn’t matter. Just leave them be and shoot at targets or something.
Couldn't agree more.
I actually have no issue with people who hunt for food, as long as its done quickly and as humanely as possible.
However, the second you start gloating and taking pictures it isn't hunting for food it's trophy/sport hunting, and you are then just another sadist ass hole with a superiority complex. "
I see your point but I do slightly disagree with parts of it. I don’t think taking pics is wrong, it’s not floating or showing off etc. Of course this depends on what they have said to go with the pic. I see it as no different to someone showing off the huge carp they spent 3 days at a spot trying to catch for example. I belong to a few deer stalking groups and I post pics sometimes of the deer I have shot if they were a particularly long stalk or if it’s an animal of some magnitude. I won’t then put something like “shot this fucker right in the head!!” As yes that is just unnecessary. You always get people letting a sport/hobby/past time down regardlsss of what it is |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How people get joy from shooting any animal just for the sport of it is beyond me. Whether it’s deer, birds, bears or elephants doesn’t matter. Just leave them be and shoot at targets or something.
Couldn't agree more.
I actually have no issue with people who hunt for food, as long as its done quickly and as humanely as possible.
However, the second you start gloating and taking pictures it isn't hunting for food it's trophy/sport hunting, and you are then just another sadist ass hole with a superiority complex.
I see your point but I do slightly disagree with parts of it. I don’t think taking pics is wrong, it’s not floating or showing off etc. Of course this depends on what they have said to go with the pic. I see it as no different to someone showing off the huge carp they spent 3 days at a spot trying to catch for example. I belong to a few deer stalking groups and I post pics sometimes of the deer I have shot if they were a particularly long stalk or if it’s an animal of some magnitude. I won’t then put something like “shot this fucker right in the head!!” As yes that is just unnecessary. You always get people letting a sport/hobby/past time down regardlsss of what it is "
Do you kill them as part of a cull or is it just a hobby to you. Do you not feel sad that you’ve just killed a perfectly innocent deer that’s in its own habitat just trying to eek out a living. I can’t call it sport, sport is two evenly matched opponents competing to see who comes out on top. Shooting a defenceless animal isn’t sport, there’s no competition. |
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"How people get joy from shooting any animal just for the sport of it is beyond me. Whether it’s deer, birds, bears or elephants doesn’t matter. Just leave them be and shoot at targets or something.
Couldn't agree more.
I actually have no issue with people who hunt for food, as long as its done quickly and as humanely as possible.
However, the second you start gloating and taking pictures it isn't hunting for food it's trophy/sport hunting, and you are then just another sadist ass hole with a superiority complex.
I see your point but I do slightly disagree with parts of it. I don’t think taking pics is wrong, it’s not floating or showing off etc. Of course this depends on what they have said to go with the pic. I see it as no different to someone showing off the huge carp they spent 3 days at a spot trying to catch for example. I belong to a few deer stalking groups and I post pics sometimes of the deer I have shot if they were a particularly long stalk or if it’s an animal of some magnitude. I won’t then put something like “shot this fucker right in the head!!” As yes that is just unnecessary. You always get people letting a sport/hobby/past time down regardlsss of what it is
Do you kill them as part of a cull or is it just a hobby to you. Do you not feel sad that you’ve just killed a perfectly innocent deer that’s in its own habitat just trying to eek out a living. I can’t call it sport, sport is two evenly matched opponents competing to see who comes out on top. Shooting a defenceless animal isn’t sport, there’s no competition."
^ This  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"How people get joy from shooting any animal just for the sport of it is beyond me. Whether it’s deer, birds, bears or elephants doesn’t matter. Just leave them be and shoot at targets or something.
Couldn't agree more.
I actually have no issue with people who hunt for food, as long as its done quickly and as humanely as possible.
However, the second you start gloating and taking pictures it isn't hunting for food it's trophy/sport hunting, and you are then just another sadist ass hole with a superiority complex.
I see your point but I do slightly disagree with parts of it. I don’t think taking pics is wrong, it’s not floating or showing off etc. Of course this depends on what they have said to go with the pic. I see it as no different to someone showing off the huge carp they spent 3 days at a spot trying to catch for example. I belong to a few deer stalking groups and I post pics sometimes of the deer I have shot if they were a particularly long stalk or if it’s an animal of some magnitude. I won’t then put something like “shot this fucker right in the head!!” As yes that is just unnecessary. You always get people letting a sport/hobby/past time down regardlsss of what it is
Do you kill them as part of a cull or is it just a hobby to you. Do you not feel sad that you’ve just killed a perfectly innocent deer that’s in its own habitat just trying to eek out a living. I can’t call it sport, sport is two evenly matched opponents competing to see who comes out on top. Shooting a defenceless animal isn’t sport, there’s no competition."
Do you eat meat? Do you eat venison? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How people get joy from shooting any animal just for the sport of it is beyond me. Whether it’s deer, birds, bears or elephants doesn’t matter. Just leave them be and shoot at targets or something.
Couldn't agree more.
I actually have no issue with people who hunt for food, as long as its done quickly and as humanely as possible.
However, the second you start gloating and taking pictures it isn't hunting for food it's trophy/sport hunting, and you are then just another sadist ass hole with a superiority complex.
I see your point but I do slightly disagree with parts of it. I don’t think taking pics is wrong, it’s not floating or showing off etc. Of course this depends on what they have said to go with the pic. I see it as no different to someone showing off the huge carp they spent 3 days at a spot trying to catch for example. I belong to a few deer stalking groups and I post pics sometimes of the deer I have shot if they were a particularly long stalk or if it’s an animal of some magnitude. I won’t then put something like “shot this fucker right in the head!!” As yes that is just unnecessary. You always get people letting a sport/hobby/past time down regardlsss of what it is
Do you kill them as part of a cull or is it just a hobby to you. Do you not feel sad that you’ve just killed a perfectly innocent deer that’s in its own habitat just trying to eek out a living. I can’t call it sport, sport is two evenly matched opponents competing to see who comes out on top. Shooting a defenceless animal isn’t sport, there’s no competition.
Do you eat meat? Do you eat venison? "
Yes, and no in that order. That’s killing to eat tho, not just for the hell of it. I think all life should be valued tho, the only things I kill are flies and even then I give myself three attempts to hit the little fuckers and if I havnt got them by then I chase them out of a window or door. Maybe I’m just weird. I just find it distasteful, taking pleasure from killing a perfectly healthy animal for fun. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Welcome back Op. I remember you from last time
Ss
Well hello your not here to hate on me are you lol...?"
I’m not hating on you btw, what you do is your choice. I’m just giving my opinion that’s all. I’m not one to say I’m right and you’re wrong but I will offer an opinion based on my principles. Is that not what forums are all about? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How people get joy from shooting any animal just for the sport of it is beyond me. Whether it’s deer, birds, bears or elephants doesn’t matter. Just leave them be and shoot at targets or something.
Couldn't agree more.
I actually have no issue with people who hunt for food, as long as its done quickly and as humanely as possible.
However, the second you start gloating and taking pictures it isn't hunting for food it's trophy/sport hunting, and you are then just another sadist ass hole with a superiority complex.
I see your point but I do slightly disagree with parts of it. I don’t think taking pics is wrong, it’s not floating or showing off etc. Of course this depends on what they have said to go with the pic. I see it as no different to someone showing off the huge carp they spent 3 days at a spot trying to catch for example. I belong to a few deer stalking groups and I post pics sometimes of the deer I have shot if they were a particularly long stalk or if it’s an animal of some magnitude. I won’t then put something like “shot this fucker right in the head!!” As yes that is just unnecessary. You always get people letting a sport/hobby/past time down regardlsss of what it is "
the
I don't know any carp fishers who kill what they catch. The ones I know choose hooks that cause the least damage and stress, have fish first aid kits that they use to treat any injured fish they may catch,and generally look after all the wildlife that's around them while they're fishing.
So photos are taken to show what was caught as they aren't going to be taking up home what's caught.
You have the actual corpse, so not sure why photos are needed as you have the physical evidence of what you killed right there. And far, far too many gloat over a kill and treat the animals body with disdain which is why there's such an ill feeling towards hunters. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"How people get joy from shooting any animal just for the sport of it is beyond me. Whether it’s deer, birds, bears or elephants doesn’t matter. Just leave them be and shoot at targets or something.
Couldn't agree more.
I actually have no issue with people who hunt for food, as long as its done quickly and as humanely as possible.
However, the second you start gloating and taking pictures it isn't hunting for food it's trophy/sport hunting, and you are then just another sadist ass hole with a superiority complex.
I see your point but I do slightly disagree with parts of it. I don’t think taking pics is wrong, it’s not floating or showing off etc. Of course this depends on what they have said to go with the pic. I see it as no different to someone showing off the huge carp they spent 3 days at a spot trying to catch for example. I belong to a few deer stalking groups and I post pics sometimes of the deer I have shot if they were a particularly long stalk or if it’s an animal of some magnitude. I won’t then put something like “shot this fucker right in the head!!” As yes that is just unnecessary. You always get people letting a sport/hobby/past time down regardlsss of what it is
Do you kill them as part of a cull or is it just a hobby to you. Do you not feel sad that you’ve just killed a perfectly innocent deer that’s in its own habitat just trying to eek out a living. I can’t call it sport, sport is two evenly matched opponents competing to see who comes out on top. Shooting a defenceless animal isn’t sport, there’s no competition."
Deer management is what I do. If you want I could not use a rifle and try just using my bare hands or a set of antlers but I’m pretty sure the deer would go through a far more traumatic time and be worse off for it.
I always try to see people’s points of view and take what they say on board and I’m aware this life isn’t for everyone. If lost count of the amount of times Iv stalked a dear and not taken the shot or lost the dear because on that occasion they won, they out smarted me. It’s not a case of man has gun so man wins. I. Had farmers call me and say they have a dear ruining their crops so can I come find it, I stalk for three days and never see it. Only the damage it/they have done. Its Not as one sided as you might think.
Some people get annoyed about shooting but still eat meet. They think of dear and think of Disney and bambie etc and get all shouty and call me names etc but then they go buy chicken that’s been intensively reared or pork thats not free range etc, they buy and eat meat which has been treated inhumanely. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"How people get joy from shooting any animal just for the sport of it is beyond me. Whether it’s deer, birds, bears or elephants doesn’t matter. Just leave them be and shoot at targets or something.
Couldn't agree more.
I actually have no issue with people who hunt for food, as long as its done quickly and as humanely as possible.
However, the second you start gloating and taking pictures it isn't hunting for food it's trophy/sport hunting, and you are then just another sadist ass hole with a superiority complex.
I see your point but I do slightly disagree with parts of it. I don’t think taking pics is wrong, it’s not floating or showing off etc. Of course this depends on what they have said to go with the pic. I see it as no different to someone showing off the huge carp they spent 3 days at a spot trying to catch for example. I belong to a few deer stalking groups and I post pics sometimes of the deer I have shot if they were a particularly long stalk or if it’s an animal of some magnitude. I won’t then put something like “shot this fucker right in the head!!” As yes that is just unnecessary. You always get people letting a sport/hobby/past time down regardlsss of what it is
Do you kill them as part of a cull or is it just a hobby to you. Do you not feel sad that you’ve just killed a perfectly innocent deer that’s in its own habitat just trying to eek out a living. I can’t call it sport, sport is two evenly matched opponents competing to see who comes out on top. Shooting a defenceless animal isn’t sport, there’s no competition.
Do you eat meat? Do you eat venison?
Yes, and no in that order. That’s killing to eat tho, not just for the hell of it. I think all life should be valued tho, the only things I kill are flies and even then I give myself three attempts to hit the little fuckers and if I havnt got them by then I chase them out of a window or door. Maybe I’m just weird. I just find it distasteful, taking pleasure from killing a perfectly healthy animal for fun. "
Isn’t a flies life worth the same as a deer?
This makes me laugh to (and not at you by the way but others in the past). I remember one lady got soooooo angry at my when she found out I shot a fox for a local farmer as it was taking lambs. She went off on one about how could I kill a fox etc etc all animals deserve to live etc etc. She then told me she hates all spiders and they deserve to die, she hates rats and wants them all dead, hates Anything that has too many legs and crawls. Some people get caught up in cute and cuddly of it all. You can’t ahoot a fluffy bunny wabbit but yes get rid of those disgusting rats. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How people get joy from shooting any animal just for the sport of it is beyond me. Whether it’s deer, birds, bears or elephants doesn’t matter. Just leave them be and shoot at targets or something.
Couldn't agree more.
I actually have no issue with people who hunt for food, as long as its done quickly and as humanely as possible.
However, the second you start gloating and taking pictures it isn't hunting for food it's trophy/sport hunting, and you are then just another sadist ass hole with a superiority complex.
I see your point but I do slightly disagree with parts of it. I don’t think taking pics is wrong, it’s not floating or showing off etc. Of course this depends on what they have said to go with the pic. I see it as no different to someone showing off the huge carp they spent 3 days at a spot trying to catch for example. I belong to a few deer stalking groups and I post pics sometimes of the deer I have shot if they were a particularly long stalk or if it’s an animal of some magnitude. I won’t then put something like “shot this fucker right in the head!!” As yes that is just unnecessary. You always get people letting a sport/hobby/past time down regardless of what it is "
It's very different to someone catching a carp since the welfare of the fish is the highest priority to a fisherman and he will endeavour to return it safely to the water to live out it's life. Whereas the act of shooting is "to Kill".Big difference. There are of course game fishermen who kill their quarry however that is becoming less frequent as catch aqnd release is becoming more and more popular. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"How people get joy from shooting any animal just for the sport of it is beyond me. Whether it’s deer, birds, bears or elephants doesn’t matter. Just leave them be and shoot at targets or something.
Couldn't agree more.
I actually have no issue with people who hunt for food, as long as its done quickly and as humanely as possible.
However, the second you start gloating and taking pictures it isn't hunting for food it's trophy/sport hunting, and you are then just another sadist ass hole with a superiority complex.
I see your point but I do slightly disagree with parts of it. I don’t think taking pics is wrong, it’s not floating or showing off etc. Of course this depends on what they have said to go with the pic. I see it as no different to someone showing off the huge carp they spent 3 days at a spot trying to catch for example. I belong to a few deer stalking groups and I post pics sometimes of the deer I have shot if they were a particularly long stalk or if it’s an animal of some magnitude. I won’t then put something like “shot this fucker right in the head!!” As yes that is just unnecessary. You always get people letting a sport/hobby/past time down regardlsss of what it is the
I don't know any carp fishers who kill what they catch. The ones I know choose hooks that cause the least damage and stress, have fish first aid kits that they use to treat any injured fish they may catch,and generally look after all the wildlife that's around them while they're fishing.
So photos are taken to show what was caught as they aren't going to be taking up home what's caught.
You have the actual corpse, so not sure why photos are needed as you have the physical evidence of what you killed right there. And far, far too many gloat over a kill and treat the animals body with disdain which is why there's such an ill feeling towards hunters. "
The fisherman have the evidence to. In their hands. As for looking after wildlife, did you know that more land is looked after by gamekeepers than the RSPB, natural England and the nationl trust put tougher. and has a higher diversity of wildlife. I’m all so a keen angler by the way. Cant say Iv heard of fish first aid kits mind you. A deer is usually dressed in the field (if you can’t get it anywhere). So it’s not like I then take the whole thing down the pub to show everyone. It’s straight to the chiller and cut into cuts of meat and packed. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"How people get joy from shooting any animal just for the sport of it is beyond me. Whether it’s deer, birds, bears or elephants doesn’t matter. Just leave them be and shoot at targets or something.
Couldn't agree more.
I actually have no issue with people who hunt for food, as long as its done quickly and as humanely as possible.
However, the second you start gloating and taking pictures it isn't hunting for food it's trophy/sport hunting, and you are then just another sadist ass hole with a superiority complex.
I see your point but I do slightly disagree with parts of it. I don’t think taking pics is wrong, it’s not floating or showing off etc. Of course this depends on what they have said to go with the pic. I see it as no different to someone showing off the huge carp they spent 3 days at a spot trying to catch for example. I belong to a few deer stalking groups and I post pics sometimes of the deer I have shot if they were a particularly long stalk or if it’s an animal of some magnitude. I won’t then put something like “shot this fucker right in the head!!” As yes that is just unnecessary. You always get people letting a sport/hobby/past time down regardless of what it is
It's very different to someone catching a carp since the welfare of the fish is the highest priority to a fisherman and he will endeavour to return it safely to the water to live out it's life. Whereas the act of shooting is "to Kill".Big difference. There are of course game fishermen who kill their quarry however that is becoming less frequent as catch aqnd release is becoming more and more popular."
And this is what I mean lol. You don’t care that a fisherman may kill a fish as a fish isn’t fluffy and cute as a baby but the man who culls
Deer is the devil. And for the record the animals welfare is top priority when being culled. You think we run around with bows and arrows beating it till it dies??? I’m sorry but that’s just a ridiculous thing to say |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How people get joy from shooting any animal just for the sport of it is beyond me. Whether it’s deer, birds, bears or elephants doesn’t matter. Just leave them be and shoot at targets or something.
Couldn't agree more.
I actually have no issue with people who hunt for food, as long as its done quickly and as humanely as possible.
However, the second you start gloating and taking pictures it isn't hunting for food it's trophy/sport hunting, and you are then just another sadist ass hole with a superiority complex.
I see your point but I do slightly disagree with parts of it. I don’t think taking pics is wrong, it’s not floating or showing off etc. Of course this depends on what they have said to go with the pic. I see it as no different to someone showing off the huge carp they spent 3 days at a spot trying to catch for example. I belong to a few deer stalking groups and I post pics sometimes of the deer I have shot if they were a particularly long stalk or if it’s an animal of some magnitude. I won’t then put something like “shot this fucker right in the head!!” As yes that is just unnecessary. You always get people letting a sport/hobby/past time down regardlsss of what it is the
I don't know any carp fishers who kill what they catch. The ones I know choose hooks that cause the least damage and stress, have fish first aid kits that they use to treat any injured fish they may catch,and generally look after all the wildlife that's around them while they're fishing.
So photos are taken to show what was caught as they aren't going to be taking up home what's caught.
You have the actual corpse, so not sure why photos are needed as you have the physical evidence of what you killed right there. And far, far too many gloat over a kill and treat the animals body with disdain which is why there's such an ill feeling towards hunters.
The fisherman have the evidence to. In their hands. As for looking after wildlife, did you know that more land is looked after by gamekeepers than the RSPB, natural England and the nationl trust put tougher. and has a higher diversity of wildlife. I’m all so a keen angler by the way. Cant say Iv heard of fish first aid kits mind you. A deer is usually dressed in the field (if you can’t get it anywhere). So it’s not like I then take the whole thing down the pub to show everyone. It’s straight to the chiller and cut into cuts of meat and packed. "
Yes there are fish first aid kits I have one myself. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How people get joy from shooting any animal just for the sport of it is beyond me. Whether it’s deer, birds, bears or elephants doesn’t matter. Just leave them be and shoot at targets or something.
Couldn't agree more.
I actually have no issue with people who hunt for food, as long as its done quickly and as humanely as possible.
However, the second you start gloating and taking pictures it isn't hunting for food it's trophy/sport hunting, and you are then just another sadist ass hole with a superiority complex.
I see your point but I do slightly disagree with parts of it. I don’t think taking pics is wrong, it’s not floating or showing off etc. Of course this depends on what they have said to go with the pic. I see it as no different to someone showing off the huge carp they spent 3 days at a spot trying to catch for example. I belong to a few deer stalking groups and I post pics sometimes of the deer I have shot if they were a particularly long stalk or if it’s an animal of some magnitude. I won’t then put something like “shot this fucker right in the head!!” As yes that is just unnecessary. You always get people letting a sport/hobby/past time down regardlsss of what it is
Do you kill them as part of a cull or is it just a hobby to you. Do you not feel sad that you’ve just killed a perfectly innocent deer that’s in its own habitat just trying to eek out a living. I can’t call it sport, sport is two evenly matched opponents competing to see who comes out on top. Shooting a defenceless animal isn’t sport, there’s no competition.
Do you eat meat? Do you eat venison?
Yes, and no in that order. That’s killing to eat tho, not just for the hell of it. I think all life should be valued tho, the only things I kill are flies and even then I give myself three attempts to hit the little fuckers and if I havnt got them by then I chase them out of a window or door. Maybe I’m just weird. I just find it distasteful, taking pleasure from killing a perfectly healthy animal for fun.
Isn’t a flies life worth the same as a deer?
This makes me laugh to (and not at you by the way but others in the past). I remember one lady got soooooo angry at my when she found out I shot a fox for a local farmer as it was taking lambs. She went off on one about how could I kill a fox etc etc all animals deserve to live etc etc. She then told me she hates all spiders and they deserve to die, she hates rats and wants them all dead, hates Anything that has too many legs and crawls. Some people get caught up in cute and cuddly of it all. You can’t ahoot a fluffy bunny wabbit but yes get rid of those disgusting rats. "
We’re just going round in circles now. I said further up that I see the necessity of culling certain animals, it is specifically killing for fun I have issue with like I’ve said a few times now. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"How people get joy from shooting any animal just for the sport of it is beyond me. Whether it’s deer, birds, bears or elephants doesn’t matter. Just leave them be and shoot at targets or something.
Couldn't agree more.
I actually have no issue with people who hunt for food, as long as its done quickly and as humanely as possible.
However, the second you start gloating and taking pictures it isn't hunting for food it's trophy/sport hunting, and you are then just another sadist ass hole with a superiority complex.
I see your point but I do slightly disagree with parts of it. I don’t think taking pics is wrong, it’s not floating or showing off etc. Of course this depends on what they have said to go with the pic. I see it as no different to someone showing off the huge carp they spent 3 days at a spot trying to catch for example. I belong to a few deer stalking groups and I post pics sometimes of the deer I have shot if they were a particularly long stalk or if it’s an animal of some magnitude. I won’t then put something like “shot this fucker right in the head!!” As yes that is just unnecessary. You always get people letting a sport/hobby/past time down regardless of what it is
It's very different to someone catching a carp since the welfare of the fish is the highest priority to a fisherman and he will endeavour to return it safely to the water to live out it's life. Whereas the act of shooting is "to Kill".Big difference. There are of course game fishermen who kill their quarry however that is becoming less frequent as catch aqnd release is becoming more and more popular.
And this is what I mean lol. You don’t care that a fisherman may kill a fish as a fish isn’t fluffy and cute as a baby but the man who culls
Deer is the devil. And for the record the animals welfare is top priority when being culled. You think we run around with bows and arrows beating it till it dies??? I’m sorry but that’s just a ridiculous thing to say"
Did I say I didn't care that a fisherman may kill a fish? No I didn't!!! Please read carefully. I said game fisherman (that's trout and salmon fishermen) sometimes kill their quarry but due to the reduced population of said game fish it is now becoming more popular for game fishermen to use catch and release as their method. This is the method I personally use as a coarse fisherman I also from time to time do a bit of game fishing and always use catch and release as a method and the welfare of the fish is always a priority. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"How people get joy from shooting any animal just for the sport of it is beyond me. Whether it’s deer, birds, bears or elephants doesn’t matter. Just leave them be and shoot at targets or something.
Couldn't agree more.
I actually have no issue with people who hunt for food, as long as its done quickly and as humanely as possible.
However, the second you start gloating and taking pictures it isn't hunting for food it's trophy/sport hunting, and you are then just another sadist ass hole with a superiority complex.
I see your point but I do slightly disagree with parts of it. I don’t think taking pics is wrong, it’s not floating or showing off etc. Of course this depends on what they have said to go with the pic. I see it as no different to someone showing off the huge carp they spent 3 days at a spot trying to catch for example. I belong to a few deer stalking groups and I post pics sometimes of the deer I have shot if they were a particularly long stalk or if it’s an animal of some magnitude. I won’t then put something like “shot this fucker right in the head!!” As yes that is just unnecessary. You always get people letting a sport/hobby/past time down regardlsss of what it is
Do you kill them as part of a cull or is it just a hobby to you. Do you not feel sad that you’ve just killed a perfectly innocent deer that’s in its own habitat just trying to eek out a living. I can’t call it sport, sport is two evenly matched opponents competing to see who comes out on top. Shooting a defenceless animal isn’t sport, there’s no competition.
Do you eat meat? Do you eat venison?
Yes, and no in that order. That’s killing to eat tho, not just for the hell of it. I think all life should be valued tho, the only things I kill are flies and even then I give myself three attempts to hit the little fuckers and if I havnt got them by then I chase them out of a window or door. Maybe I’m just weird. I just find it distasteful, taking pleasure from killing a perfectly healthy animal for fun.
Isn’t a flies life worth the same as a deer?
This makes me laugh to (and not at you by the way but others in the past). I remember one lady got soooooo angry at my when she found out I shot a fox for a local farmer as it was taking lambs. She went off on one about how could I kill a fox etc etc all animals deserve to live etc etc. She then told me she hates all spiders and they deserve to die, she hates rats and wants them all dead, hates Anything that has too many legs and crawls. Some people get caught up in cute and cuddly of it all. You can’t ahoot a fluffy bunny wabbit but yes get rid of those disgusting rats.
We’re just going round in circles now. I said further up that I see the necessity of culling certain animals, it is specifically killing for fun I have issue with like I’ve said a few times now. "
I know lol I know. I end up on a bit of a rant at times. And as Iv said I respect all people’s oppinons and views. I enjoy hearing the different takes. There’s something hunting that I don’t agree with myself like the illegal whale hunting in japan and big game hunting for lions and giraffe etc (unless there’s a genuine reason for it and not just some rich American wanting a new rug) |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"How people get joy from shooting any animal just for the sport of it is beyond me. Whether it’s deer, birds, bears or elephants doesn’t matter. Just leave them be and shoot at targets or something.
Couldn't agree more.
I actually have no issue with people who hunt for food, as long as its done quickly and as humanely as possible.
However, the second you start gloating and taking pictures it isn't hunting for food it's trophy/sport hunting, and you are then just another sadist ass hole with a superiority complex.
I see your point but I do slightly disagree with parts of it. I don’t think taking pics is wrong, it’s not floating or showing off etc. Of course this depends on what they have said to go with the pic. I see it as no different to someone showing off the huge carp they spent 3 days at a spot trying to catch for example. I belong to a few deer stalking groups and I post pics sometimes of the deer I have shot if they were a particularly long stalk or if it’s an animal of some magnitude. I won’t then put something like “shot this fucker right in the head!!” As yes that is just unnecessary. You always get people letting a sport/hobby/past time down regardless of what it is
It's very different to someone catching a carp since the welfare of the fish is the highest priority to a fisherman and he will endeavour to return it safely to the water to live out it's life. Whereas the act of shooting is "to Kill".Big difference. There are of course game fishermen who kill their quarry however that is becoming less frequent as catch aqnd release is becoming more and more popular.
And this is what I mean lol. You don’t care that a fisherman may kill a fish as a fish isn’t fluffy and cute as a baby but the man who culls
Deer is the devil. And for the record the animals welfare is top priority when being culled. You think we run around with bows and arrows beating it till it dies??? I’m sorry but that’s just a ridiculous thing to say
Did I say I didn't care that a fisherman may kill a fish? No I didn't!!! Please read carefully. I said game fisherman (that's trout and salmon fishermen) sometimes kill their quarry but due to the reduced population of said game fish it is now becoming more popular for game fishermen to use catch and release as their method. This is the method I personally use as a coarse fisherman I also from time to time do a bit of game fishing and always use catch and release as a method and the welfare of the fish is always a priority."
And I meant are you saying it’s ok for a man to kill a fish but not a dear. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"How people get joy from shooting any animal just for the sport of it is beyond me. Whether it’s deer, birds, bears or elephants doesn’t matter. Just leave them be and shoot at targets or something.
Couldn't agree more.
I actually have no issue with people who hunt for food, as long as its done quickly and as humanely as possible.
However, the second you start gloating and taking pictures it isn't hunting for food it's trophy/sport hunting, and you are then just another sadist ass hole with a superiority complex.
I see your point but I do slightly disagree with parts of it. I don’t think taking pics is wrong, it’s not floating or showing off etc. Of course this depends on what they have said to go with the pic. I see it as no different to someone showing off the huge carp they spent 3 days at a spot trying to catch for example. I belong to a few deer stalking groups and I post pics sometimes of the deer I have shot if they were a particularly long stalk or if it’s an animal of some magnitude. I won’t then put something like “shot this fucker right in the head!!” As yes that is just unnecessary. You always get people letting a sport/hobby/past time down regardless of what it is
It's very different to someone catching a carp since the welfare of the fish is the highest priority to a fisherman and he will endeavour to return it safely to the water to live out it's life. Whereas the act of shooting is "to Kill".Big difference. There are of course game fishermen who kill their quarry however that is becoming less frequent as catch aqnd release is becoming more and more popular.
And this is what I mean lol. You don’t care that a fisherman may kill a fish as a fish isn’t fluffy and cute as a baby but the man who culls
Deer is the devil. And for the record the animals welfare is top priority when being culled. You think we run around with bows and arrows beating it till it dies??? I’m sorry but that’s just a ridiculous thing to say
Did I say I didn't care that a fisherman may kill a fish? No I didn't!!! Please read carefully. I said game fisherman (that's trout and salmon fishermen) sometimes kill their quarry but due to the reduced population of said game fish it is now becoming more popular for game fishermen to use catch and release as their method. This is the method I personally use as a coarse fisherman I also from time to time do a bit of game fishing and always use catch and release as a method and the welfare of the fish is always a priority.
And I meant are you saying it’s ok for a man to kill a fish but not a dear. "
Did I say that either??? No!!! Again please read carefully and maybe shoot less |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"How people get joy from shooting any animal just for the sport of it is beyond me. Whether it’s deer, birds, bears or elephants doesn’t matter. Just leave them be and shoot at targets or something.
Couldn't agree more.
I actually have no issue with people who hunt for food, as long as its done quickly and as humanely as possible.
However, the second you start gloating and taking pictures it isn't hunting for food it's trophy/sport hunting, and you are then just another sadist ass hole with a superiority complex.
I see your point but I do slightly disagree with parts of it. I don’t think taking pics is wrong, it’s not floating or showing off etc. Of course this depends on what they have said to go with the pic. I see it as no different to someone showing off the huge carp they spent 3 days at a spot trying to catch for example. I belong to a few deer stalking groups and I post pics sometimes of the deer I have shot if they were a particularly long stalk or if it’s an animal of some magnitude. I won’t then put something like “shot this fucker right in the head!!” As yes that is just unnecessary. You always get people letting a sport/hobby/past time down regardless of what it is
It's very different to someone catching a carp since the welfare of the fish is the highest priority to a fisherman and he will endeavour to return it safely to the water to live out it's life. Whereas the act of shooting is "to Kill".Big difference. There are of course game fishermen who kill their quarry however that is becoming less frequent as catch aqnd release is becoming more and more popular.
And this is what I mean lol. You don’t care that a fisherman may kill a fish as a fish isn’t fluffy and cute as a baby but the man who culls
Deer is the devil. And for the record the animals welfare is top priority when being culled. You think we run around with bows and arrows beating it till it dies??? I’m sorry but that’s just a ridiculous thing to say
Did I say I didn't care that a fisherman may kill a fish? No I didn't!!! Please read carefully. I said game fisherman (that's trout and salmon fishermen) sometimes kill their quarry but due to the reduced population of said game fish it is now becoming more popular for game fishermen to use catch and release as their method. This is the method I personally use as a coarse fisherman I also from time to time do a bit of game fishing and always use catch and release as a method and the welfare of the fish is always a priority.
And I meant are you saying it’s ok for a man to kill a fish but not a dear.
Did I say that either??? No!!! Again please read carefully and maybe shoot less "
I give up lol. It was a question “are you saying??”
I wasn’t telling you what you said, I was querying it. Best we leave this here I think |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"How people get joy from shooting any animal just for the sport of it is beyond me. Whether it’s deer, birds, bears or elephants doesn’t matter. Just leave them be and shoot at targets or something.
Couldn't agree more.
I actually have no issue with people who hunt for food, as long as its done quickly and as humanely as possible.
However, the second you start gloating and taking pictures it isn't hunting for food it's trophy/sport hunting, and you are then just another sadist ass hole with a superiority complex.
I see your point but I do slightly disagree with parts of it. I don’t think taking pics is wrong, it’s not floating or showing off etc. Of course this depends on what they have said to go with the pic. I see it as no different to someone showing off the huge carp they spent 3 days at a spot trying to catch for example. I belong to a few deer stalking groups and I post pics sometimes of the deer I have shot if they were a particularly long stalk or if it’s an animal of some magnitude. I won’t then put something like “shot this fucker right in the head!!” As yes that is just unnecessary. You always get people letting a sport/hobby/past time down regardless of what it is
It's very different to someone catching a carp since the welfare of the fish is the highest priority to a fisherman and he will endeavour to return it safely to the water to live out it's life. Whereas the act of shooting is "to Kill".Big difference. There are of course game fishermen who kill their quarry however that is becoming less frequent as catch aqnd release is becoming more and more popular.
And this is what I mean lol. You don’t care that a fisherman may kill a fish as a fish isn’t fluffy and cute as a baby but the man who culls
Deer is the devil. And for the record the animals welfare is top priority when being culled. You think we run around with bows and arrows beating it till it dies??? I’m sorry but that’s just a ridiculous thing to say
Did I say I didn't care that a fisherman may kill a fish? No I didn't!!! Please read carefully. I said game fisherman (that's trout and salmon fishermen) sometimes kill their quarry but due to the reduced population of said game fish it is now becoming more popular for game fishermen to use catch and release as their method. This is the method I personally use as a coarse fisherman I also from time to time do a bit of game fishing and always use catch and release as a method and the welfare of the fish is always a priority.
And I meant are you saying it’s ok for a man to kill a fish but not a dear.
Did I say that either??? No!!! Again please read carefully and maybe shoot less
I give up lol. It was a question “are you saying??”
I wasn’t telling you what you said, I was querying it. Best we leave this here I think "
Yep your flogging a dead horse |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"How people get joy from shooting any animal just for the sport of it is beyond me. Whether it’s deer, birds, bears or elephants doesn’t matter. Just leave them be and shoot at targets or something.
Couldn't agree more.
I actually have no issue with people who hunt for food, as long as its done quickly and as humanely as possible.
However, the second you start gloating and taking pictures it isn't hunting for food it's trophy/sport hunting, and you are then just another sadist ass hole with a superiority complex.
I see your point but I do slightly disagree with parts of it. I don’t think taking pics is wrong, it’s not floating or showing off etc. Of course this depends on what they have said to go with the pic. I see it as no different to someone showing off the huge carp they spent 3 days at a spot trying to catch for example. I belong to a few deer stalking groups and I post pics sometimes of the deer I have shot if they were a particularly long stalk or if it’s an animal of some magnitude. I won’t then put something like “shot this fucker right in the head!!” As yes that is just unnecessary. You always get people letting a sport/hobby/past time down regardless of what it is
It's very different to someone catching a carp since the welfare of the fish is the highest priority to a fisherman and he will endeavour to return it safely to the water to live out it's life. Whereas the act of shooting is "to Kill".Big difference. There are of course game fishermen who kill their quarry however that is becoming less frequent as catch aqnd release is becoming more and more popular.
And this is what I mean lol. You don’t care that a fisherman may kill a fish as a fish isn’t fluffy and cute as a baby but the man who culls
Deer is the devil. And for the record the animals welfare is top priority when being culled. You think we run around with bows and arrows beating it till it dies??? I’m sorry but that’s just a ridiculous thing to say
Did I say I didn't care that a fisherman may kill a fish? No I didn't!!! Please read carefully. I said game fisherman (that's trout and salmon fishermen) sometimes kill their quarry but due to the reduced population of said game fish it is now becoming more popular for game fishermen to use catch and release as their method. This is the method I personally use as a coarse fisherman I also from time to time do a bit of game fishing and always use catch and release as a method and the welfare of the fish is always a priority.
And I meant are you saying it’s ok for a man to kill a fish but not a dear.
Did I say that either??? No!!! Again please read carefully and maybe shoot less
I give up lol. It was a question “are you saying??”
I wasn’t telling you what you said, I was querying it. Best we leave this here I think
Yep your flogging a dead horse "
More likely to be a dead deer |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"How people get joy from shooting any animal just for the sport of it is beyond me. Whether it’s deer, birds, bears or elephants doesn’t matter. Just leave them be and shoot at targets or something.
Couldn't agree more.
I actually have no issue with people who hunt for food, as long as its done quickly and as humanely as possible.
However, the second you start gloating and taking pictures it isn't hunting for food it's trophy/sport hunting, and you are then just another sadist ass hole with a superiority complex.
I see your point but I do slightly disagree with parts of it. I don’t think taking pics is wrong, it’s not floating or showing off etc. Of course this depends on what they have said to go with the pic. I see it as no different to someone showing off the huge carp they spent 3 days at a spot trying to catch for example. I belong to a few deer stalking groups and I post pics sometimes of the deer I have shot if they were a particularly long stalk or if it’s an animal of some magnitude. I won’t then put something like “shot this fucker right in the head!!” As yes that is just unnecessary. You always get people letting a sport/hobby/past time down regardless of what it is
It's very different to someone catching a carp since the welfare of the fish is the highest priority to a fisherman and he will endeavour to return it safely to the water to live out it's life. Whereas the act of shooting is "to Kill".Big difference. There are of course game fishermen who kill their quarry however that is becoming less frequent as catch aqnd release is becoming more and more popular.
And this is what I mean lol. You don’t care that a fisherman may kill a fish as a fish isn’t fluffy and cute as a baby but the man who culls
Deer is the devil. And for the record the animals welfare is top priority when being culled. You think we run around with bows and arrows beating it till it dies??? I’m sorry but that’s just a ridiculous thing to say
Did I say I didn't care that a fisherman may kill a fish? No I didn't!!! Please read carefully. I said game fisherman (that's trout and salmon fishermen) sometimes kill their quarry but due to the reduced population of said game fish it is now becoming more popular for game fishermen to use catch and release as their method. This is the method I personally use as a coarse fisherman I also from time to time do a bit of game fishing and always use catch and release as a method and the welfare of the fish is always a priority.
And I meant are you saying it’s ok for a man to kill a fish but not a dear.
Did I say that either??? No!!! Again please read carefully and maybe shoot less
I give up lol. It was a question “are you saying??”
I wasn’t telling you what you said, I was querying it. Best we leave this here I think
Yep your flogging a dead horse
More likely to be a dead deer "
Yep and there endeth the lesson pmsl |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"How people get joy from shooting any animal just for the sport of it is beyond me. Whether it’s deer, birds, bears or elephants doesn’t matter. Just leave them be and shoot at targets or something.
Couldn't agree more.
I actually have no issue with people who hunt for food, as long as its done quickly and as humanely as possible.
However, the second you start gloating and taking pictures it isn't hunting for food it's trophy/sport hunting, and you are then just another sadist ass hole with a superiority complex.
I see your point but I do slightly disagree with parts of it. I don’t think taking pics is wrong, it’s not floating or showing off etc. Of course this depends on what they have said to go with the pic. I see it as no different to someone showing off the huge carp they spent 3 days at a spot trying to catch for example. I belong to a few deer stalking groups and I post pics sometimes of the deer I have shot if they were a particularly long stalk or if it’s an animal of some magnitude. I won’t then put something like “shot this fucker right in the head!!” As yes that is just unnecessary. You always get people letting a sport/hobby/past time down regardless of what it is
It's very different to someone catching a carp since the welfare of the fish is the highest priority to a fisherman and he will endeavour to return it safely to the water to live out it's life. Whereas the act of shooting is "to Kill".Big difference. There are of course game fishermen who kill their quarry however that is becoming less frequent as catch aqnd release is becoming more and more popular.
And this is what I mean lol. You don’t care that a fisherman may kill a fish as a fish isn’t fluffy and cute as a baby but the man who culls
Deer is the devil. And for the record the animals welfare is top priority when being culled. You think we run around with bows and arrows beating it till it dies??? I’m sorry but that’s just a ridiculous thing to say
Did I say I didn't care that a fisherman may kill a fish? No I didn't!!! Please read carefully. I said game fisherman (that's trout and salmon fishermen) sometimes kill their quarry but due to the reduced population of said game fish it is now becoming more popular for game fishermen to use catch and release as their method. This is the method I personally use as a coarse fisherman I also from time to time do a bit of game fishing and always use catch and release as a method and the welfare of the fish is always a priority.
And I meant are you saying it’s ok for a man to kill a fish but not a dear.
Did I say that either??? No!!! Again please read carefully and maybe shoot less
I give up lol. It was a question “are you saying??”
I wasn’t telling you what you said, I was querying it. Best we leave this here I think
Yep your flogging a dead horse
More likely to be a dead deer
Yep and there endeth the lesson pmsl"
It’s you who remains uneducated in this field. At least I don’t look down upon others and ridicule them for their beliefs and such like. I respect your opinions and views but I sense that you just feel you are right and I am wrong. You are smart and I am not. You are better than me.
Anyway as i said, this needs not to continue. Good day |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"How people get joy from shooting any animal just for the sport of it is beyond me. Whether it’s deer, birds, bears or elephants doesn’t matter. Just leave them be and shoot at targets or something.
Couldn't agree more.
I actually have no issue with people who hunt for food, as long as its done quickly and as humanely as possible.
However, the second you start gloating and taking pictures it isn't hunting for food it's trophy/sport hunting, and you are then just another sadist ass hole with a superiority complex.
I see your point but I do slightly disagree with parts of it. I don’t think taking pics is wrong, it’s not floating or showing off etc. Of course this depends on what they have said to go with the pic. I see it as no different to someone showing off the huge carp they spent 3 days at a spot trying to catch for example. I belong to a few deer stalking groups and I post pics sometimes of the deer I have shot if they were a particularly long stalk or if it’s an animal of some magnitude. I won’t then put something like “shot this fucker right in the head!!” As yes that is just unnecessary. You always get people letting a sport/hobby/past time down regardless of what it is
It's very different to someone catching a carp since the welfare of the fish is the highest priority to a fisherman and he will endeavour to return it safely to the water to live out it's life. Whereas the act of shooting is "to Kill".Big difference. There are of course game fishermen who kill their quarry however that is becoming less frequent as catch aqnd release is becoming more and more popular.
And this is what I mean lol. You don’t care that a fisherman may kill a fish as a fish isn’t fluffy and cute as a baby but the man who culls
Deer is the devil. And for the record the animals welfare is top priority when being culled. You think we run around with bows and arrows beating it till it dies??? I’m sorry but that’s just a ridiculous thing to say
Did I say I didn't care that a fisherman may kill a fish? No I didn't!!! Please read carefully. I said game fisherman (that's trout and salmon fishermen) sometimes kill their quarry but due to the reduced population of said game fish it is now becoming more popular for game fishermen to use catch and release as their method. This is the method I personally use as a coarse fisherman I also from time to time do a bit of game fishing and always use catch and release as a method and the welfare of the fish is always a priority.
And I meant are you saying it’s ok for a man to kill a fish but not a dear.
Did I say that either??? No!!! Again please read carefully and maybe shoot less
I give up lol. It was a question “are you saying??”
I wasn’t telling you what you said, I was querying it. Best we leave this here I think
Yep your flogging a dead horse
More likely to be a dead deer
Yep and there endeth the lesson pmsl
It’s you who remains uneducated in this field. At least I don’t look down upon others and ridicule them for their beliefs and such like. I respect your opinions and views but I sense that you just feel you are right and I am wrong. You are smart and I am not. You are better than me.
Anyway as i said, this needs not to continue. Good day "
I have a BSc (Hons) in Ecology & Wildlife Conservation, so yes I'm smart and can speak with some authority on the subject. No problem with anybody shooting targets or to live/survive themselves but killing for the sake of killing well that's a slippery slope to destroying our planet. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Any secret shooters on here? And I don’t mean porn. I’m talking about guns, Be it Clays or other things (saves the haters hating if I don’t put animals.........ahhhh shit)
I apologise now to all the vegans who are about to kick off.
But seriously, im aware of a few blokes on here that hunt/stalk/shoot etc but not of any women. Anyone brave/proud enough to put their hand up? "
I’ve been shooting once (clays), turns out I’m terrible at it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I shoot clays and fac too. Hubby shoots fac and yes he hunts he got me into it he doesn't like the shotguns too noisey
Ear plugs ...?
He prefers the stalk
I assume his rifle is moderated then lol"
Yes and sub sonic ammo of course |
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