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Is it just me?
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"Am I wrong to think that there is something strange about the system when an illegal immigrant who arrived here as a stowaway, went on to commit some twenty crimes and is then awarded £17k compensation for being held in a secure place? _rummps x" No its not. Everyone who reads the Daily Mail agrees with you. | |||
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"Am I wrong to think that there is something strange about the system when an illegal immigrant who arrived here as a stowaway, went on to commit some twenty crimes and is then awarded £17k compensation for being held in a secure place? _rummps x No its not. Everyone who reads the Daily Mail agrees with you."  | |||
"Oh I ask questions like that every day from why am I struggling to go to work whilst people with dozens of kids by different partners are still under their duvets; why my children, all employed university graduates will never get social housing as they're not benefit claiming single parents...I could go on but my blood pressure was up in Monday so it's best I think happy thoughts like Christmas is coming! "I have to agree with you on what you said. I work in the housing sector and I have a man that had been in the country 5 months and has turned down 3 offers of accommodation and then says to me what have I done to help him.  | |||
" No its not. Everyone who reads the Daily Mail agrees with you." Hahaha | |||
"Am I wrong to think that there is something strange about the system when an illegal immigrant who arrived here as a stowaway, went on to commit some twenty crimes and is then awarded £17k compensation for being held in a secure place? _rummps x" Have you not considered who runs the system, who it's designed by and designed to reward? Do you think all the legal people involved in this scenario and many others donated their time for free? The "immigrant" is just a bit part, like the "iron" in Monopoly. | |||
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" No its not. Everyone who reads the Daily Mail agrees with you." Are you telling me that people actually read the Daily Mail? _rummps x | |||
" Have you not considered who runs the system, who it's designed by and designed to reward? Do you think all the legal people involved in this scenario and many others donated their time for free? The "immigrant" is just a bit part, like the "iron" in Monopoly. " Er! Thats kind of what I meant by questioning the "system". _rummps x | |||
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"What was that saying? "let he (or she) who is without sin cast the first stone." Yeah, immigrant this and immigrant that but I don't see the problem. Why? Because there are people born here that get on my nerves! People from other countries have to risk their lives to come here and don't always get things go their way while we were born here and have no-questions-asked access to the country's perks (which we use and abuse) and still complain! Life isn't great right now but honestly, what more do we want? "They want someone to blame....anyone but themselves to be honest with you. It helps them to ignore their own failings if there is a whipping dog to hand..... | |||
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" People from other countries have to risk their lives to come here and don't always get things go their way" Then, if they really have risked their lives to get here, they should claim asylum in the first safe country they reach (which is actually what the European system says)........ the UK is never the first port of call from anywhere that asylum seekers come from...... They only come here for the freebies..... why can't they stay in France/Spain/Germany etc? " while we were born here and have no-questions-asked access to the country's perks (which we use and abuse) and still complain!" Tell that to my daughter who was abused, pregnant and homeless and couldn't be housed because she was under 25. Or tell that to the man who worked all his life, paid his tax and NI and couldn't get any help when he got made redundant with no pay and couldn't get ANY benefits because he was effectively self employed. Tell that to the couple who are trying to start up a new business because said man got made redundant and can't get any help with their mortgage or council tax. etc.... the list goes on. As for the asylum seeker who has turned down 3 offers of accommodation..... send him back if we can't do enough for him and give the house to someone who would appreciate it. | |||
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"Great Britain is just a safe harbour and stepping stone for illegal immigrants. They leech us dry then piss off (sometimes). Make everyone who is fit, capable and on benefits, get up in a morning and work for their dole money. Theres communities that need help keeping their neighbourhood clean, the old and infirm need help with daily duties, etc. It would teach us all a lesson on the value of humanity and self worth for ourselves and others and the fact money is better earnt doing something worth while." This gets my vote!!! | |||
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" People from other countries have to risk their lives to come here and don't always get things go their way while we were born here and have no-questions-asked access to the country's perks (which we use and abuse) and still complain! Life isn't great right now but honestly, what more do we want? "But why here, how many arrive in other countries where they could claim asylum, but then make the way half way across Europe to come to a country that is so damn bloody soft, ask that question to them. For example how many Libyans will now go back now that their suppresor Gadaffi is dead. | |||
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"I'm sort of caught in the middle. Eastern European immigrants in the building trade has definitely made it a bit more cut throat and thus means i seem to earn less every year But.. Its a fundamental human right for people to try and better themselves. If an Iraqi goatherd decides to come to Britain and clean McDonalds toilets for minimum wage (cos let's face it there's a hell of a lot of lazy British bastards that won't) and thinks to himself every night "yes,I have made a better life for myself" Then you know what? I tip my fucking hat to him" Yes but there are some that abuse the system and I see that everyday. We as a country can do so much. My job is under threat and I may not have one in March as the governement are making cut on housing. | |||
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"There are some that abuse every system.. some people are dishonest. who knew? a lot of them are British and EU citizens" yes that is very true.... | |||
"There are some that abuse every system.. some people are dishonest. who knew? a lot of them are British and EU citizens " One even rose to be PM | |||
"Its a fundamental human right for people to try and better themselves. If an Iraqi goatherd decides to come to Britain and clean McDonalds toilets for minimum wage (cos let's face it there's a hell of a lot of lazy British bastards that won't) and thinks to himself every night "yes,I have made a better life for myself" Then you know what? I tip my fucking hat to him" can only agree | |||
" People from other countries have to risk their lives to come here and don't always get things go their way Then, if they really have risked their lives to get here, they should claim asylum in the first safe country they reach (which is actually what the European system says)........ the UK is never the first port of call from anywhere that asylum seekers come from...... They only come here for the freebies..... why can't they stay in France/Spain/Germany etc? while we were born here and have no-questions-asked access to the country's perks (which we use and abuse) and still complain! Tell that to my daughter who was abused, pregnant and homeless and couldn't be housed because she was under 25. Or tell that to the man who worked all his life, paid his tax and NI and couldn't get any help when he got made redundant with no pay and couldn't get ANY benefits because he was effectively self employed. Tell that to the couple who are trying to start up a new business because said man got made redundant and can't get any help with their mortgage or council tax. etc.... the list goes on. As for the asylum seeker who has turned down 3 offers of accommodation..... send him back if we can't do enough for him and give the house to someone who would appreciate it. " People want to earn the pound, not the euro. That's why people come here. It's one of the strongest currencies in the world today. I'm truly sorry about your daughter but thank god she had you to turn to. We have a massive waiting list for housing which effects everyone and special cases are often over looked. Not because of immigrants but because someone realised that they can get a house and benefit as a single parent and move their boyfriend in (who happens to own his own electrician's business with very loyal, wealthy customers) and they live off his wage while saving money. As far as self-employment goes, we are all fighting to save our businesses but there are many other factors involved. The new westfield in East London is threating to kill local business and and lot of companies have be shut by the olympic staduim being built. Many of our problems are a lot closer to home, not just from outside the UK. | |||
"There are some that abuse every system.. some people are dishonest. who knew? a lot of them are British and EU citizens One even rose to be PM " Thank You.
Our own politicians were syphoning money and then had the cheek to say there wasn't any.
A previous thread asked why you can't get benefits and assistance?  | |||
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"Great Britain is just a safe harbour and stepping stone for illegal immigrants. They leech us dry then piss off (sometimes). Make everyone who is fit, capable and on benefits, get up in a morning and work for their dole money. Theres communities that need help keeping their neighbourhood clean, the old and infirm need help with daily duties, etc. It would teach us all a lesson on the value of humanity and self worth for ourselves and others and the fact money is better earnt doing something worth while." Is it worth entring in to a discussion on the amount of holes in this argument? | |||
"Am I wrong to think that there is something strange about the system when an illegal immigrant who arrived here as a stowaway, went on to commit some twenty crimes and is then awarded £17k compensation for being held in a secure place? _rummps x" Yes it's wrong. But stories like this are a bit like the ones about the family with 8 kids living in a million pound house on housing benefits, far from representative of the norm and designed to whip us in to a frenzy of right wing hysteria. The full facts of this case are extremely unusual and he can't at present be deported but most people that are ourtraged don;t read past the fact he got compensation. | |||
"Am I wrong to think that there is something strange about the system when an illegal immigrant who arrived here as a stowaway, went on to commit some twenty crimes and is then awarded £17k compensation for being held in a secure place? _rummps x" im gonan do this i think in another country and see what happens  | |||
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"I always find the question of immagration interesting and the responses to it......... None of us have to look to far back through our family history to find a the blood of another nation in our veins...... Mine is French, German oh and let's not forget Russiam, and thats just in the last 100 years, that equates to just 3 generations." Lest its me...I didn`t read the thread as anything to do with immigration...at all...I`ve no problem with immigration.. I could be wrong tho...just rose, and at my age, the stirring of lucid thought..takes a couple of cuppas %* | |||
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"Great Britain is just a safe harbour and stepping stone for illegal immigrants. They leech us dry then piss off (sometimes). Make everyone who is fit, capable and on benefits, get up in a morning and work for their dole money. Theres communities that need help keeping their neighbourhood clean, the old and infirm need help with daily duties, etc. It would teach us all a lesson on the value of humanity and self worth for ourselves and others and the fact money is better earnt doing something worth while. Is it worth entring in to a discussion on the amount of holes in this argument?" Then why comment? Oh! Thats right, freedom of speech. Its just an opinion at the end of the day. I know it wont happen, the country knows it wont happen. If it did, then there wouldn't be any need for government funded projects like community service for the toerags who abuse their neighbourhoods or God forbid, someone actually helping an elderly neighbour with housework or cooking them meals instead of the home help thats provided by the government. Whats wrong with making people who are fit and well that are on benefits earn their dole money by helping others, even training and educating them in the basic skills that could help them find employment? | |||
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"Am I wrong to think that there is something strange about the system when an illegal immigrant who arrived here as a stowaway, went on to commit some twenty crimes and is then awarded £17k compensation for being held in a secure place? _rummps x" link please... | |||
"the danish system is you get a few months on the dole to find a job, then if you havnt found one, you are given any job they choose, and if there isnt one you have to do comunity type things for a minimum amount of hours a week, or your dole is cut off. works for them, but our system has to many holes" My thoughts aren't fantasy then?! Someone actually puts them to good use. | |||
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"the danish system is you get a few months on the dole to find a job, then if you havnt found one, you are given any job they choose, and if there isnt one you have to do comunity type things for a minimum amount of hours a week, or your dole is cut off. works for them, but our system has to many holes My thoughts aren't fantasy then?! Someone actually puts them to good use." Take a look at the German model of unemployment entitlement...you may know already I guess... Interseting to see the different approachs... Yours has some merit...if a tad idealistic.. However restorative justice, has similar overtones, and when its been tried , its had some success at rebuilding community dialogue..and restitution of value... | |||
"Great Britain is just a safe harbour and stepping stone for illegal immigrants. They leech us dry then piss off (sometimes). Make everyone who is fit, capable and on benefits, get up in a morning and work for their dole money. Theres communities that need help keeping their neighbourhood clean, the old and infirm need help with daily duties, etc. It would teach us all a lesson on the value of humanity and self worth for ourselves and others and the fact money is better earnt doing something worth while. Is it worth entring in to a discussion on the amount of holes in this argument? Then why comment? Oh! Thats right, freedom of speech. Its just an opinion at the end of the day. I know it wont happen, the country knows it wont happen. If it did, then there wouldn't be any need for government funded projects like community service for the toerags who abuse their neighbourhoods or God forbid, someone actually helping an elderly neighbour with housework or cooking them meals instead of the home help thats provided by the government. Whats wrong with making people who are fit and well that are on benefits earn their dole money by helping others, even training and educating them in the basic skills that could help them find employment?" Ok, the 2 main flaws. Firstly you are ignoring that while you seem to have pigeonholed everyone that is out of work as a work shy scrounger we are in a huge recession and lots of people are out of work at the moment through no fault of their own. Maybe read some of _enguys posts on this subject, maybe consider that a lot of people that are unemployed spend their time applying for jobs, visiting agencies, attending interviews and all this takes time. Secondly, what jobs? The jobs that you mention don't exist? If they are to be created because there is a necessity then people deserve a wage for doing them. People cannot be forced to do a non-existant job just because they are unemployed. Being unemployed is not a crime. We alreadyhave street cleaners, we already have carers? Are you really suggesting thyat someone with no background in care should even be considered to look after the infirm just because they are unemployed? | |||
"the danish system is you get a few months on the dole to find a job, then if you havnt found one, you are given any job they choose, and if there isnt one you have to do comunity type things for a minimum amount of hours a week, or your dole is cut off. works for them, but our system has to many holes My thoughts aren't fantasy then?! Someone actually puts them to good use." Do you know much about what happens to longterm unemployed in this country? When I say know I mean know rather than have read in the Mail or Sun how they allegedly live the life of reilly on £70 a week. | |||
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"Great Britain is just a safe harbour and stepping stone for illegal immigrants. They leech us dry then piss off (sometimes). Make everyone who is fit, capable and on benefits, get up in a morning and work for their dole money. Theres communities that need help keeping their neighbourhood clean, the old and infirm need help with daily duties, etc. It would teach us all a lesson on the value of humanity and self worth for ourselves and others and the fact money is better earnt doing something worth while. Is it worth entring in to a discussion on the amount of holes in this argument? Then why comment? Oh! Thats right, freedom of speech. Its just an opinion at the end of the day. I know it wont happen, the country knows it wont happen. If it did, then there wouldn't be any need for government funded projects like community service for the toerags who abuse their neighbourhoods or God forbid, someone actually helping an elderly neighbour with housework or cooking them meals instead of the home help thats provided by the government. Whats wrong with making people who are fit and well that are on benefits earn their dole money by helping others, even training and educating them in the basic skills that could help them find employment? Ok, the 2 main flaws. Firstly you are ignoring that while you seem to have pigeonholed everyone that is out of work as a work shy scrounger we are in a huge recession and lots of people are out of work at the moment through no fault of their own. Maybe read some of _enguys posts on this subject, maybe consider that a lot of people that are unemployed spend their time applying for jobs, visiting agencies, attending interviews and all this takes time. Secondly, what jobs? The jobs that you mention don't exist? If they are to be created because there is a necessity then people deserve a wage for doing them. People cannot be forced to do a non-existant job just because they are unemployed. Being unemployed is not a crime. We alreadyhave street cleaners, we already have carers? Are you really suggesting thyat someone with no background in care should even be considered to look after the infirm just because they are unemployed? " I started work in care about 20yrs ago with no experience at all went from working in a pub to working in a nursing home so I dont think that is a fair point to make nobody gets anywhere in work unless someone is prepared to take a chance just my thoughts . | |||
"the danish system is you get a few months on the dole to find a job, then if you havnt found one, you are given any job they choose, and if there isnt one you have to do comunity type things for a minimum amount of hours a week, or your dole is cut off. works for them, but our system has to many holes My thoughts aren't fantasy then?! Someone actually puts them to good use. Do you know much about what happens to longterm unemployed in this country? When I say know I mean know rather than have read in the Mail or Sun how they allegedly live the life of reilly on £70 a week." I haven't worked for the last year, no fault of anyones, it is due to ill health. I have applied for jobs (got an interview next week) even though I can't do the physical labour I used to do, I am trying to find retraining to get back into work. Over ten years ago I was on the dole, instead of sitting on my arse I joined the benefit plus ten scheme (anyone remember that?) Its where you trained for qualifications doing a 40 hour week for your benefits plus ten quid extra. After a few different jobs I decided to go self employed and worked hard, doing 18 hours a day and more if you included traveling. I don't think everyone on the dole is bone idle, I do understand how hard it is to get work, I understand the stress and frustration of people wanting to work but can't find anything appropriate. My gripe is, if everyone was given the chance to work in Britain (regardless of ethnic background) a large percentage wouldn't even try. Is it such a bad thing to get people up and motivated towards better goals? Sorry for the rant. | |||
"I started work in care about 20yrs ago with no experience at all went from working in a pub to working in a nursing home so I dont think that is a fair point to make nobody gets anywhere in work unless someone is prepared to take a chance just my thoughts . " Quite agree. My job saw a massive change of direction and a huge leap of faith by my now manager for which I will be eternally greatful. You seem to have taken offense to my post in which case I apologise. Now look at the post I was responding to. Which basically says that care work is on a par with street cleaning, is unskilled, requires no training and is a suitable stopgap to keep the longterm unemployed busy. Care work is under resourced. Is the solution the OP's suggection or something slightly more well thought out such as investing in funding to train the unemployed to be fit to take a real job in these sectors and making the resources available that those that need care can obtain it? | |||
"I started work in care about 20yrs ago with no experience at all went from working in a pub to working in a nursing home so I dont think that is a fair point to make nobody gets anywhere in work unless someone is prepared to take a chance just my thoughts . Quite agree. My job saw a massive change of direction and a huge leap of faith by my now manager for which I will be eternally greatful. You seem to have taken offense to my post in which case I apologise. Now look at the post I was responding to. Which basically says that care work is on a par with street cleaning, is unskilled, requires no training and is a suitable stopgap to keep the longterm unemployed busy. Care work is under resourced. Is the solution the OP's suggection or something slightly more well thought out such as investing in funding to train the unemployed to be fit to take a real job in these sectors and making the resources available that those that need care can obtain it?" I presume you mean my posts? At what point did I say long term unemployed? I meant all those capable of helping. At what point did I say health care was unskilled? I meant anyone who is able to help, does it take a degree to see if someone elderly is ok or need small jobs doing to help? You haven't read or understood what I mean by the sounds of it. | |||
". Do you know much about what happens to longterm unemployed in this country? When I say know I mean know rather than have read in the Mail or Sun how they allegedly live the life of reilly on £70 a week. I haven't worked for the last year, no fault of anyones, it is due to ill health. I have applied for jobs (got an interview next week) even though I can't do the physical labour I used to do, I am trying to find retraining to get back into work. Over ten years ago I was on the dole, instead of sitting on my arse I joined the benefit plus ten scheme (anyone remember that?) Its where you trained for qualifications doing a 40 hour week for your benefits plus ten quid extra. After a few different jobs I decided to go self employed and worked hard, doing 18 hours a day and more if you included traveling. I don't think everyone on the dole is bone idle, I do understand how hard it is to get work, I understand the stress and frustration of people wanting to work but can't find anything appropriate. My gripe is, if everyone was given the chance to work in Britain (regardless of ethnic background) a large percentage wouldn't even try. Is it such a bad thing to get people up and motivated towards better goals? Sorry for the rant. " I've obviously put my comments on here on similar posts. It often makes my blood boil to see the "extreme" cases of where the Media proclaims how £1000's are bing spent on rent, mortgages each month on scroungers, dole cheats etc. The reality is that benefits don't go far. I'm Single, so all I got was JSA at £67.50 per week. Yes, I got Council Tax relief, but DWP assistance with Mortgage relief doesn't kick in until after being out of work for 13 weeks, and that's when they send you the forms after which it takes another 6 weeks to process. But in my case, they sent the wrong forms twice, and to date, they're still trying to sort out the mess, so I've had none of the £16 per week they've promised me!
Yes, I've applied for work, for 100's of jobs. There is work out there, a lot of it, if you know where to look, but thousands of others know that too. One job I applied for attracted 7500 applications within 5 days!
A year ago, I was on a £23k plus overtime job p.a. Whilst out of work, I was applying for jobs as low as £11k, even though the Job Centre said Ithey'd be happy for me look for at least £16k.
Financially, it has been a struggle; I've lost track of when I went out last. I'velived frugally for 9 months, living on a budget of £9 a week for food, as that's all I had by the time I paid off other things.
Yes there are a lot of workshy out there; I saw them every time I went to my local Job Centre. People who felt the "system" owed them a living. Maybe, in past years, I should have shacked up with some woman, had several kids, got myself a criminal record and /or a drugs habit and what would happen? I'd get money and resources thrown at me.
But I chose to take pride in my life. I toed the line, and yes, the system doesn't reward those who behave themselves. But looking for a job became a full time job, some days more than that, if I worked on my PC till midnight answering job ads!
There were bad days; of late these outnumbered the good days.
Look at the governemnt cuts! What has that achieved? Councils have stopped funding to job clubs. In Hull, 5 job clubs ceased operating at the end of June; there's none left now!
There is training funding around, but the complexities of who is entiltled to it are so confusing, few organisations are taking it up, certainly, not in Hull.
Even the Job Centres are on a personnel freeze; they are not employing personnel, even if someone leaves, they aren't being replaced! Yet their work load goes up.
But I'm in my mid-50's; ageism is rife, the Job Centre staff know it, so do agencies, but Government says it doesn't!
And on top of it all are those who won't work at all, even if they were offerred all the best options. That unfortunately is how some people view the Unemployed and sadly tar them with all the same brush; I've experienced it with employers.
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" Lest its me...I didn`t read the thread as anything to do with immigration...at all...I`ve no problem with immigration.. I could be wrong tho...just rose, and at my age, the stirring of lucid thought..takes a couple of cuppas %*" You are correct. The thread wasn't meant to question immigration as such but the system which can pay compensation to a villain, on a technicality, who just happened to be a known illegal immigrant. As a previous poster said, he was just a bit player in the affair. _rummps x | |||
"Am I wrong to think that there is something strange about the system when an illegal immigrant who arrived here as a stowaway, went on to commit some twenty crimes and is then awarded £17k compensation for being held in a secure place? _rummps x link please... "Sorry, there is probably a link somewhere but I know not where. The thread was started after I heard the story on Radio 4 news, 5pm Friday last. It was also a small item in todays papers. _rummps x | |||
"Am I wrong to think that there is something strange about the system when an illegal immigrant who arrived here as a stowaway, went on to commit some twenty crimes and is then awarded £17k compensation for being held in a secure place? _rummps x link please...
Sorry, there is probably a link somewhere but I know not where. The thread was started after I heard the story on Radio 4 news, 5pm Friday last.
It was also a small item in todays papers.
_rummps x"http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2057672/Illegal-immigrant-awarded-17k-compensation-unlawfully-jailed.html | |||
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" Lest its me...I didn`t read the thread as anything to do with immigration...at all...I`ve no problem with immigration.. I could be wrong tho...just rose, and at my age, the stirring of lucid thought..takes a couple of cuppas %* You are correct. The thread wasn't meant to question immigration as such but the system which can pay compensation to a villain, on a technicality, who just happened to be a known illegal immigrant. As a previous poster said, he was just a bit player in the affair. _rummps x " Its a few different issues and they like to sensationalise it. Immigration legality is one. Breaking the law another. Compensation another. The £17,360 he received for illegal detention should then be paid to the victims of the 20 offences he committed. You can't say fairer than that. | |||
" Lest its me...I didn`t read the thread as anything to do with immigration...at all...I`ve no problem with immigration.. I could be wrong tho...just rose, and at my age, the stirring of lucid thought..takes a couple of cuppas %* You are correct. The thread wasn't meant to question immigration as such but the system which can pay compensation to a villain, on a technicality, who just happened to be a known illegal immigrant. As a previous poster said, he was just a bit player in the affair. _rummps x " I thought so...and he was indeed a bit player... At least the absurdity of the lawyers gravy train is being talked about by the powers that be...hopefully common sense will prevail.. | |||
"Oh I ask questions like that every day from why am I struggling to go to work whilst people with dozens of kids by different partners are still under their duvets; why my children, all employed university graduates will never get social housing as they're not benefit claiming single parents...I could go on but my blood pressure was up in Monday so it's best I think happy thoughts like Christmas is coming! "The fact that someone works is not a reason for stopping them getting social housing, only the criteria of their present housing situation will as I work for a housing association and we have loads of tenants that work and pay their own rent. | |||
"Oh I ask questions like that every day from why am I struggling to go to work whilst people with dozens of kids by different partners are still under their duvets; why my children, all employed university graduates will never get social housing as they're not benefit claiming single parents...I could go on but my blood pressure was up in Monday so it's best I think happy thoughts like Christmas is coming! "hmm ok so what your saying is that if someone didnt go to uni and chose to work form an early age we are somehow contributing less to society ??? | |||
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