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Hypothetical ............
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A young girl goes missing just before her fourth birthday.
The circumstances are that she was left alone while her parents go out for a meal with friends.
She is never found.
No one knows if she is alive or dead.
If she is alive she would now be 8 years old.
Question : Assuming the girl has been loved and well cared for. Should she be returned to her blood parents ? Why yes and why no ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A young girl goes missing just before her fourth birthday.
The circumstances are that she was left alone while her parents go out for a meal with friends.
She is never found.
No one knows if she is alive or dead.
If she is alive she would now be 8 years old.
Question : Assuming the girl has been loved and well cared for. Should she be returned to her blood parents ? Why yes and why no ?"
It is a yes she should from me....beacause she was taken from parents who up untill that point had shown no neglect and wear decent hard working people, and have clearly put everything they have into finding her.....and the people who took her regardless of weather they wer good to her or not, wer allowed to keep her.....then the message that would be sending out is....its ok 2 snatch kids as long as you bring them up well.....and would cause all sorts of heartbreak and chaos |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A young girl goes missing just before her fourth birthday.
The circumstances are that she was left alone while her parents go out for a meal with friends.
She is never found.
No one knows if she is alive or dead.
If she is alive she would now be 8 years old.
Question : Assuming the girl has been loved and well cared for. Should she be returned to her blood parents ? Why yes and why no ?"
Of course yes. There is no 'why'. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yes because despite everything they did that was so very wrong about the whole sorry case, any vitriol pointed in their direction could not make an iota of impact compared with the knot of hurt and mental anguish they must feel at their child being lost through their carelessness.
I dont like what they did but who am I to deprive any parents reunion with their child?
It seems a fairy tale ending to me if this happens. I dont get any pleasure out of anyones grief or need to have a holier than thou attitude. |
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yes the parents left them alone something you should never do, but what gives someone the right to come in your home and take your child and yes i think the child should be returned to her blood parents |
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Yes, she won't be allowed to stay with the couple. So what do you with her.
Hand her over to more strangers, deprive her and her siblings of each others company.
It's a minefield, but a child belongs with its parents.
Please God it is Madeleine and her and her familes anguish can be over |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I wouldn't give her back, no parents go out and leave a four year old alone and unsupervised while they are having dinner.
If the child is not dead and has been cared for and well looked after then perhaps they should ask the child who she wants to stay with.
At the risk of the wrath of every parent here, think about who is guilty of abuse here?
Who is the one who didn't abduct the child but rescued it from what they saw as neglect? |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"I wouldn't give her back, no parents go out and leave a four year old alone and unsupervised while they are having dinner.
If the child is not dead and has been cared for and well looked after then perhaps they should ask the child who she wants to stay with.
At the risk of the wrath of every parent here, think about who is guilty of abuse here?
Who is the one who didn't abduct the child but rescued it from what they saw as neglect? "
By that reckoning they shouldn't be able to keep the children they have now?
Lots of people make mistakes, theirs was a huge one with tragic results, but it is still their child. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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She should be returned then put in care and the parents charged for neglect for leaving her in th first place
If this was a family in council flat this would be the case but as they not it won't be done |
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Yes. All parents make silly mistakes with their children at some time and I don't believe that someone who would commit this terrible crime are fundamental good people who should be trusted with bringing up someone elses child no matter what. If these people were caught, prosecuted, served their prison time and were released would they be considered by social services as fit foster parents? I think not.
Mistress x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I wouldn't give her back, no parents go out and leave a four year old alone and unsupervised while they are having dinner.
If the child is not dead and has been cared for and well looked after then perhaps they should ask the child who she wants to stay with.
At the risk of the wrath of every parent here, think about who is guilty of abuse here?
Who is the one who didn't abduct the child but rescued it from what they saw as neglect?
By that reckoning they shouldn't be able to keep the children they have now?
Lots of people make mistakes, theirs was a huge one with tragic results, but it is still their child."
This wasn't about Madeleine, this was a hypothetical answer to a hypothetical question.
On the subject of Maddy, I suspect she is dead and her parents were involved. |
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"She should be returned then put in care and the parents charged for neglect for leaving her in th first place
If this was a family in council flat this would be the case but as they not it won't be done"
No charges have been brought regarding the 'neglect' of the twins.
When all is said and done she was abducted. Which is an offence in it self |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"I wouldn't give her back, no parents go out and leave a four year old alone and unsupervised while they are having dinner.
If the child is not dead and has been cared for and well looked after then perhaps they should ask the child who she wants to stay with.
At the risk of the wrath of every parent here, think about who is guilty of abuse here?
Who is the one who didn't abduct the child but rescued it from what they saw as neglect?
By that reckoning they shouldn't be able to keep the children they have now?
Lots of people make mistakes, theirs was a huge one with tragic results, but it is still their child.
This wasn't about Madeleine, this was a hypothetical answer to a hypothetical question.
On the subject of Maddy, I suspect she is dead and her parents were involved. "
Hypothetically ....if the person had other children when the child went missing would all the children be taken from the parents?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"She should be returned then put in care and the parents charged for neglect for leaving her in th first place
If this was a family in council flat this would be the case but as they not it won't be done
No charges have been brought regarding the 'neglect' of the twins.
When all is said and done she was abducted. Which is an offence in it self"
Ano ain't it funny how no charges made if was poor family them kids would been took away too
I just struggle to get past thru knowingly left there children alone while they went to hav meal and drink
No parent would do that and I hate the comment we all do or done it
No my parents never did and would found place to go were kids were welcome or done somethin else
They neglected 3 babies for a drink and meal but no one mentions that just oh poor ppl but it's not random in abduction cases the ppl watch and monitor before acting, so they knew the children were alone, so this wasn't a one of thing cos the abductor would have had to know they had time to act
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I wouldn't give her back, no parents go out and leave a four year old alone and unsupervised while they are having dinner.
If the child is not dead and has been cared for and well looked after then perhaps they should ask the child who she wants to stay with.
At the risk of the wrath of every parent here, think about who is guilty of abuse here?
Who is the one who didn't abduct the child but rescued it from what they saw as neglect?
By that reckoning they shouldn't be able to keep the children they have now?
Lots of people make mistakes, theirs was a huge one with tragic results, but it is still their child.
This wasn't about Madeleine, this was a hypothetical answer to a hypothetical question.
On the subject of Maddy, I suspect she is dead and her parents were involved.
Hypothetically ....if the person had other children when the child went missing would all the children be taken from the parents?
"
Another question entirely from the OP's but, Hypothetically I'd have looked at charging them with neglect if all the children had been left alone, and let them shoulder the consequences of the law. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"She should be returned then put in care and the parents charged for neglect for leaving her in th first place
If this was a family in council flat this would be the case but as they not it won't be done
No charges have been brought regarding the 'neglect' of the twins.
When all is said and done she was abducted. Which is an offence in it self
Ano ain't it funny how no charges made if was poor family them kids would been took away too
I just struggle to get past thru knowingly left there children alone while they went to hav meal and drink
No parent would do that and I hate the comment we all do or done it
No my parents never did and would found place to go were kids were welcome or done somethin else
They neglected 3 babies for a drink and meal but no one mentions that just oh poor ppl but it's not random in abduction cases the ppl watch and monitor before acting, so they knew the children were alone, so this wasn't a one of thing cos the abductor would have had to know they had time to act
"
It wasn't a one off, they had done the same thing most nights. |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"I wouldn't give her back, no parents go out and leave a four year old alone and unsupervised while they are having dinner.
If the child is not dead and has been cared for and well looked after then perhaps they should ask the child who she wants to stay with.
At the risk of the wrath of every parent here, think about who is guilty of abuse here?
Who is the one who didn't abduct the child but rescued it from what they saw as neglect?
By that reckoning they shouldn't be able to keep the children they have now?
Lots of people make mistakes, theirs was a huge one with tragic results, but it is still their child.
This wasn't about Madeleine, this was a hypothetical answer to a hypothetical question.
On the subject of Maddy, I suspect she is dead and her parents were involved.
Hypothetically ....if the person had other children when the child went missing would all the children be taken from the parents?
Another question entirely from the OP's but, Hypothetically I'd have looked at charging them with neglect if all the children had been left alone, and let them shoulder the consequences of the law. "
Wow, I didn't realise you were a stickler of sticking to the OP until now.
Will leave you to it.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Exactly so they should have all kids took
Sorry if ppl think am heartless I just hate this and hate the comment we all do it
Yes parents make mistakes but this wasn't a mistake this was done for regular meals and drinks |
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My post in no way excuses such irresponsible parenting but we have come across similar on holiday where parents we thought were friends on holiday took turns babysitting each others children but turned out to be strangers who wanted dinner without their kids. Also parents using babysitting services in hotels?! Wouldn't risk it personally but many do. Everything is a judgement call and risk assessment which occasionally goes tragically wrong. I'm guessing the parents have learned a lesson the hardest way possible. Think of the guilt as a parent when anything happens to a child in your care through no real fault of your own then multiply by a billion, add losing child forever, public hatred and still being parents to two children who also lost big sis in such a horrible way. I'm guessing its a worse punishment then any I would care to think up.
I realise the interest of the child should come first but couldn't agree with not allowing a child to be reunited with their parents. The care system would be far from the perfect alternative for her.
Mistress x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Hypothetically ....if the person had other children when the child went missing would all the children be taken from the parents?
"
Sorry I may have misread that, are you asking why all three had not been abducted? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I didnt want to say this but Im going to. I have fostered a lot of children and as much love care and attention I give to them - most of the children I have had in that care have wanted to go home to their parents and siblings. Despite knowing they had lousy parents and many children were sent home once these parents got their act together. I am sorry but blood is thicker than water.
I spent many an anguished time about two of my fostered children leaving and worried when they left to visit their natural mother, as teens. I was never sure if they would come back to me. But that is also part and parcel of foster care.
Those two did stay with me along with another sister, but they were the exception. All three still visit their birth mother, but are grown up and left my nest now so thats how it goes, in my situation. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I wouldn't give her back, no parents go out and leave a four year old alone and unsupervised while they are having dinner.
If the child is not dead and has been cared for and well looked after then perhaps they should ask the child who she wants to stay with.
At the risk of the wrath of every parent here, think about who is guilty of abuse here?
Who is the one who didn't abduct the child but rescued it from what they saw as neglect?
By that reckoning they shouldn't be able to keep the children they have now?
Lots of people make mistakes, theirs was a huge one with tragic results, but it is still their child.
This wasn't about Madeleine, this was a hypothetical answer to a hypothetical question.
On the subject of Maddy, I suspect she is dead and her parents were involved.
Hypothetically ....if the person had other children when the child went missing would all the children be taken from the parents?
Another question entirely from the OP's but, Hypothetically I'd have looked at charging them with neglect if all the children had been left alone, and let them shoulder the consequences of the law.
Wow, I didn't realise you were a stickler of sticking to the OP until now.
Will leave you to it. "
I'm not always a stickler for sticking to OP's but this was a hypothetical post about one child.
I answered on the scenario given and as it was read. I didn't allow any thoughts of the McCann family or their dilemma enter my head, because that is a real life emotional turmoil of a subject which would be too volatile to touch on. |
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"I wouldn't give her back, no parents go out and leave a four year old alone and unsupervised while they are having dinner.
If the child is not dead and has been cared for and well looked after then perhaps they should ask the child who she wants to stay with.
At the risk of the wrath of every parent here, think about who is guilty of abuse here?
Who is the one who didn't abduct the child but rescued it from what they saw as neglect?
By that reckoning they shouldn't be able to keep the children they have now?
Lots of people make mistakes, theirs was a huge one with tragic results, but it is still their child.
This wasn't about Madeleine, this was a hypothetical answer to a hypothetical question.
On the subject of Maddy, I suspect she is dead and her parents were involved.
Hypothetically ....if the person had other children when the child went missing would all the children be taken from the parents?
"
Hypothetically - If the powers that be refused to hand their child back on the grounds of negelct then they would have to remove the other children as they too were negelcted that night..... IF hypothetically there had been other children .... phewf .... |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"
Hypothetically - If the powers that be refused to hand their child back on the grounds of negelct then they would have to remove the other children as they too were negelcted that night..... IF hypothetically there had been other children .... phewf .... "
Yup, I agree. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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they would have to give the child back, beacause otherwise they would be condoning child snaching.
and even if these people wer good to the child beacuse beacause people wud have seen sum1 else get away with it they might then b encouraged to snatch a child, and they might not be so nice. |
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"they would have to give the child back, beacause otherwise they would be condoning child snaching.
and even if these people wer good to the child beacuse beacause people wud have seen sum1 else get away with it they might then b encouraged to snatch a child, and they might not be so nice."
Simon,
They are NOT condoning child snatching. They could in fact give the child to caring parents. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"they would have to give the child back, beacause otherwise they would be condoning child snaching.
and even if these people wer good to the child beacuse beacause people wud have seen sum1 else get away with it they might then b encouraged to snatch a child, and they might not be so nice.
Simon,
They are NOT condoning child snatching. They could in fact give the child to caring parents. "
O right lol....i thought u ment is the people who had snatched the child did a gd job bringing her up they should keep her.......i c wot ur sayin, well in that case you would have to look at how they had been with the child up untill the point were they lost her, and there employment history, character ref's, one of those scotland check thing the lot ha ha .......tough question....i would say however if it was genuine mistake then even thoe its a pretty bad one....if there was no intention then you have 2 giv them benifit of the doubt |
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"She should be returned then put in care and the parents charged for neglect for leaving her in th first place
If this was a family in council flat this would be the case but as they not it won't be done"
+1 |
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I wholeheartedly apologise for peoples childhoods and neighbourhoods and when the stats are produced to prove that council tenants are prosecuted where private tenants go free I'll apologise again. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"She should be returned then put in care and the parents charged for neglect for leaving her in th first place
If this was a family in council flat this would be the case but as they not it won't be done
+1"
Im from a council estate, and i know alot of people who are absolute pond life and there kids will be better off without them, i also know 1 family who have a house 3 bed rooms garden and there kid gets 2 go 2 private school on a scholership paid by the council, not beacause he's clever, but beacause know school in his catchment are want him.....but the parent is still aloud 2 keep him even thos he could cook a full sunday roast by the tim he was like 9, his mom smokes infront of him and she has never had a job in her life, and just general pond life......im sure this kinda stuff happens out of council estates as well, im just saying that just beacause your from a council estate doesnt mean you kids will b took off you, they only do that if they need 2, in my experience.....im from a council estate b4 any has a go at me. |
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"She should be returned then put in care and the parents charged for neglect for leaving her in th first place
If this was a family in council flat this would be the case but as they not it won't be done
+1
Im from a council estate, and i know alot of people who are absolute pond life and there kids will be better off without them, i also know 1 family who have a house 3 bed rooms garden and there kid gets 2 go 2 private school on a scholership paid by the council, not beacause he's clever, but beacause know school in his catchment are want him.....but the parent is still aloud 2 keep him even thos he could cook a full sunday roast by the tim he was like 9, his mom smokes infront of him and she has never had a job in her life, and just general pond life......im sure this kinda stuff happens out of council estates as well, im just saying that just beacause your from a council estate doesnt mean you kids will b took off you, they only do that if they need 2, in my experience.....im from a council estate b4 any has a go at me."
x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"She should be returned then put in care and the parents charged for neglect for leaving her in th first place
If this was a family in council flat this would be the case but as they not it won't be done
+1
Im from a council estate, and i know alot of people who are absolute pond life and there kids will be better off without them, i also know 1 family who have a house 3 bed rooms garden and there kid gets 2 go 2 private school on a scholership paid by the council, not beacause he's clever, but beacause know school in his catchment are want him.....but the parent is still aloud 2 keep him even thos he could cook a full sunday roast by the tim he was like 9, his mom smokes infront of him and she has never had a job in her life, and just general pond life......im sure this kinda stuff happens out of council estates as well, im just saying that just beacause your from a council estate doesnt mean you kids will b took off you, they only do that if they need 2, in my experience.....im from a council estate b4 any has a go at me.
x "
btw i wasnt critisising council estates i was stating if this had happened to a poor family then action would have been taken to remove the other children but as they are doctors the rules seem to have been changed.
i have nothing against backgrounds i have friends off council estates an stuff just when ever you see incidents like this the law usually comes into action however the law did not act in the case so the normal one rule for one and one for another came into play |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"She should be returned then put in care and the parents charged for neglect for leaving her in th first place
If this was a family in council flat this would be the case but as they not it won't be done
+1
Im from a council estate, and i know alot of people who are absolute pond life and there kids will be better off without them, i also know 1 family who have a house 3 bed rooms garden and there kid gets 2 go 2 private school on a scholership paid by the council, not beacause he's clever, but beacause know school in his catchment are want him.....but the parent is still aloud 2 keep him even thos he could cook a full sunday roast by the tim he was like 9, his mom smokes infront of him and she has never had a job in her life, and just general pond life......im sure this kinda stuff happens out of council estates as well, im just saying that just beacause your from a council estate doesnt mean you kids will b took off you, they only do that if they need 2, in my experience.....im from a council estate b4 any has a go at me.
x
btw i wasnt critisising council estates i was stating if this had happened to a poor family then action would have been taken to remove the other children but as they are doctors the rules seem to have been changed.
i have nothing against backgrounds i have friends off council estates an stuff just when ever you see incidents like this the law usually comes into action however the law did not act in the case so the normal one rule for one and one for another came into play"
oh no sorry m8 i wernt syaing u wer, ha ha just my experience of wer i live. iremember i walked in2 some dodgy boozer for after's with my m8s and few horrible chavy birds....and as we walked in...bare in mind this was 12 at night in a council estate in birmingham, one of the birds we wer with, her 11 year old daughter ran up 2 us and her mom didnt even know she was there....see allsorts dnt ya.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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ano see some sights an hear some stuff
just this story bugs me how ppl forget they neglected 3 children leaving 2 babies with a 4 yr old (if she was 4) what parent while on holiday would leave small kids to have meal and drink it just shocks me
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Granny the same thing crossed my mind the other week after reading an article in the paper
It's a long time and a lot of water under the bridge
I think it would be more difficult than most people think xx |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"She should be returned then put in care and the parents charged for neglect for leaving her in th first place
If this was a family in council flat this would be the case but as they not it won't be done
+1
Im from a council estate, and i know alot of people who are absolute pond life and there kids will be better off without them, i also know 1 family who have a house 3 bed rooms garden and there kid gets 2 go 2 private school on a scholership paid by the council, not beacause he's clever, but beacause know school in his catchment are want him.....but the parent is still aloud 2 keep him even thos he could cook a full sunday roast by the tim he was like 9, his mom smokes infront of him and she has never had a job in her life, and just general pond life......im sure this kinda stuff happens out of council estates as well, im just saying that just beacause your from a council estate doesnt mean you kids will b took off you, they only do that if they need 2, in my experience.....im from a council estate b4 any has a go at me.
x
btw i wasnt critisising council estates i was stating if this had happened to a poor family then action would have been taken to remove the other children but as they are doctors the rules seem to have been changed.
i have nothing against backgrounds i have friends off council estates an stuff just when ever you see incidents like this the law usually comes into action however the law did not act in the case so the normal one rule for one and one for another came into play"
In my experience some of the worst cases of children taken into care are those from households of affluence where child abuse and neglect thrives - places where alarm bells fail to ring due, quite wrongly, to the 'oh that couldnt possibly be happening here' attitude.
Taking a child into care is the last resort but I think you'll find council house raised children are probably raised in difficult circumstances but far from neglacted.
I doubt that the family of this child would be considered a risk DESPITE their stupidity. No evidence of real historical neglect.
But I understand what you're saying. |
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By *abfingersMan
over a year ago
reading/bracknell |
A lot of people here are shocked that the kids were left alone while the parents were out for dinner. I used to work at a resort similar in stature to the one the Mccanns were at at that dreadful time and I can tell you all kids were left alone in this way was not irregular. These resorts did half board and usually hidden in a little bay so no passing traffic. When the parents were having dinner they had three options with the kids; 1. Pay for a babysitter - usually a nanny from the resort or a kids club worker. 2. Put kids in a video club - kids sat in a playroom supervised by resort staff. 3. Sign up to listening service - kids put to bed by parents and a staff member would walk around the sign up lists rooms and listen for noises every 15 mins (we were not allowd into the rooms and if heard/saw something not right we would go to the restaurant and shout the room number). I worked in one of these resorts for 8 months and I tell you the kids left alone in their room happened on a regular basis. I can guess what they signed up for, not saying its right or wrong just that it was common practice... |
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Yes the child should be returned to its natural parents. The reason i say this is because if the child was to stay on with the abducters, it could open the flood gates of abuduction. There would be an increase of this happening, and a vary of reason would be given for why they abducted the child. It would be a minefield.
For example the child is playing in the front garden, the parent is in the back garden hanging out washing, putting rubbish out, they get talking to the neighbour, the child is abuducted. The child was maybe left for 20 minutes, but because the parent couldnt visably the child is this neglect. (not a good example, but all i can think of right now) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Taking a child into care is the last resort but I think you'll find council house raised children are probably raised in difficult circumstances but far from neglacted.
I doubt that the family of this child would be considered a risk DESPITE their stupidity. No evidence of real historical neglect.
But I understand what you're saying."
Thats wrong of me to have use the word are raised in difficult circumstances I of course mean some are. I and most of my peers were raised on council estates cos that was the type of housing available to the working class in my childhood  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Taking a child into care is the last resort but I think you'll find council house raised children are probably raised in difficult circumstances but far from neglacted.
I doubt that the family of this child would be considered a risk DESPITE their stupidity. No evidence of real historical neglect.
But I understand what you're saying.
Thats wrong of me to have use the word are raised in difficult circumstances I of course mean some are. I and most of my peers were raised on council estates cos that was the type of housing available to the working class in my childhood "
ye i agree the overwhelming majority of people on my estate are decent people, and there kids are sound, and every1 goes 2 work , then goes the local and stuff, quite good, but there is a substantial minority of people on council estate's who are scum, and give the estate's bad name's...thats the nature of a council estate you carnt choose who lives there....an like sum1 said earlier it is more of shock for sumthing bad 2 happen 2 a kid in a affluent area like solihull then it would inner city birmingham.....again i point out im from a council estate im not attacking im just stating my experience and i did say minority r bad majority are good. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yes the child should be returned to its natural parents. The reason i say this is because if the child was to stay on with the abducters, it could open the flood gates of abuduction. There would be an increase of this happening, and a vary of reason would be given for why they abducted the child. It would be a minefield.
For example the child is playing in the front garden, the parent is in the back garden hanging out washing, putting rubbish out, they get talking to the neighbour, the child is abuducted. The child was maybe left for 20 minutes, but because the parent couldnt visably the child is this neglect. (not a good example, but all i can think of right now)"
Its an excellent example and has happened countless numbers of times sadly  |
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By *adchickCouple
over a year ago
Cyprus |
"Most definitely she should be returned. Her parents have suffered enough for a momentary lack of judgement "
That momentary lack of judgement lasted 10 nights. NOT one.
Give her back after strict parenting classes and supervision from Social Services. |
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"Most definitely she should be returned. Her parents have suffered enough for a momentary lack of judgement
That momentary lack of judgement lasted 10 nights. NOT one.
Give her back after strict parenting classes and supervision from Social Services."
That momentary lack of judgement lasted an awful lot longer than 10 nights and indeed will no doubt last a long time to come. |
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