FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > So what has Feminism ever done for us?
So what has Feminism ever done for us?
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"What a waste of bras " Originally bras were not actually burned by feminists. What happened was on one particular protest - in the US, I think - women put their very constricting underwear (which it was at the time) in a 'Freedom Bin' to represent the loosening of the shackles they felt they were in due to their gender. An enterprising photojournalist then added the flames to the picture taken of it, and so the myth of 'bra-burning' was born and the message of these early second-wave feminists effectively silenced through ridicule. And that type of approach has served opponents and the media well over the years. The usual bull about shaven-headed, dungaree wearing lesbians, etc. Which is why so many women now will not proclaim themselves as feminists. | |||
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"What a waste of bras Originally bras were not actually burned by feminists. What happened was on one particular protest - in the US, I think - women put their very constricting underwear (which it was at the time) in a 'Freedom Bin' to represent the loosening of the shackles they felt they were in due to their gender. An enterprising photojournalist then added the flames to the picture taken of it, and so the myth of 'bra-burning' was born and the message of these early second-wave feminists effectively silenced through ridicule. And that type of approach has served opponents and the media well over the years. The usual bull about shaven-headed, dungaree wearing lesbians, etc. Which is why so many women now will not proclaim themselves as feminists." I'm looking forward to seeing how this thread progresses. | |||
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"I fail to see how you can attribute most of that to feminism. " Why? It is well-documented! The first feminist tract was written by Mary Wollstonecraft (the mother of Mary Shelley who wrote Frankenstein). The suffragist movement made known the injustices of women, and this led to many groups of women fighting for freedoms. The second wave of feminism secured the later rights. Without political activism by feminists NONE of this would have come about! | |||
"problem i find is that it has gone a little to far the other way now, when ever i hold a door for a lady i get looked at as if im a rapist ffs im only beeing polite" Look just because some random women have poor manners you cannot use that as empirical evidence that it has gone TOO FAR! What? We have TOO MUCH equality now? | |||
"I fail to see how you can attribute most of that to feminism. Why? It is well-documented! The first feminist tract was written by Mary Wollstonecraft (the mother of Mary Shelley who wrote Frankenstein). The suffragist movement made known the injustices of women, and this led to many groups of women fighting for freedoms. The second wave of feminism secured the later rights. Without political activism by feminists NONE of this would have come about!" It would have come to pass anyway with or without feminism as equality between all is doing so from gender to ethnic origin. | |||
"I fail to see how you can attribute most of that to feminism. Why? It is well-documented! The first feminist tract was written by Mary Wollstonecraft (the mother of Mary Shelley who wrote Frankenstein). The suffragist movement made known the injustices of women, and this led to many groups of women fighting for freedoms. The second wave of feminism secured the later rights. Without political activism by feminists NONE of this would have come about! It would have come to pass anyway with or without feminism as equality between all is doing so from gender to ethnic origin. " No, I don't think it would have. Just as, without political activism, ordinary working people would have few rights. History shows that the powers that be NEVER change anything whatsoever without having their hand forced. Riots in the 19th century, trade union activists, the Chartist Movement all show that such action DID gain freedoms and so it is with feminism. | |||
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"I read an awful lot of negative comments about Feminists. Thought it would be interesting to point out a few of the achievements of the feminist movement - just as a clarification. We are not all 'politically correct' nutters. The freedoms women enjoy today were hard won. 1870 The Married Women’s Property Act allows married women to own their own property. Previously, when women married, their property transferred to their husbands. Divorce heavily favoured men, allowing property to remain in their possession. This act allows women to keep their property, married, divorced, single or widowed. 1888 Clementina Black, Secretary of the Women’s Trade Union League, secures the first successful equal pay resolution at Trades Union Congress 1907 Under the Qualification of Women Act, women can be elected onto borough and county councils and can also be elected mayor. 1918 Women over 30 are granted the right to vote in Britain. (Greater London Authority (2002) capitalwoman, GLA: London) The Parliamentary Qualification of Women Act is passed, enabling women to stand as MP. 1920 The Sex Discrimination Removal Act allows women access to the legal profession and accountancy. 1922 The Law of Property Act allows both husband and wife to inherit property equally. 1923 The Matrimonial Causes Act makes grounds for divorce the same for women and men. Influential acts of 1857 paved the way for this act, which charted the advances of women to gain parity with men and contributed to the broader process of granting civil rights to women. 1928 All women in Britain gain equal voting rights with men. 1956 In Britain, legal reforms say that women teachers and civil servants should receive equal pay. 1964 The Married Women’s Property Act entitles a woman to keep half of any savings she has made from the allowance she is given by her husband. 1968 Women at the Ford car factory in Dagenham strike over equal pay, almost stopping production at all Ford UK plants. Their protest led directly to the passing of the Equal Pay Act. 1970 Working women were refused mortgages in their own right as few women worked continuously. They were only granted mortgages if they could secure the signature of a male guarantor. The Equal Pay Act makes it illegal to pay women lower rates than men for the same work. The act covers indirect as well as direct sex discrimination. It is a direct result of women’s strike action of Ford machinists and pressure from the women’s movement. 1975 The Sex Discrimination Act makes it illegal to discriminate against women in work, education and training. This is another act pushed through by the women’s movement. The Employment Protection Act introduces statutory maternity provision and makes it illegal to sack a woman because she is pregnant. 1976 The Equal Opportunities Commission comes into effect to oversee the Equal Pay Act and Sex Discrimination Act." Thank you for such an informative thread, I'm ashamed to say I did not know most of those facts. | |||
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"I’m all for parity between men and women where it does contradict the guiding force of nature, I’m a great believer the best person for a job is the right person for the job, but I think its only reasonable to demand true equality between true equals or situations which allow for a similar outcome regardless of gender specific consideration….. "I would agree. A person is a person regardless, in my eyes. Unfortunately, not always in other people's and they are often in some position of power whereby they can affect the way you live. Be that a manager at work, a partner or a politician. It has been good to see so many changes and the freedoms we have, thus far, gained in the time since I was a teen. Many women fail to see that - and many women are anti-feminist almost. You only have to read some of the reports or comments from well-known women in the media. I find it dismays me no end when I see or hear such things. I'm often amazed at what we have accomplished in the face of the opposition of not only many men but so many women! | |||
"some would say that the real catalyst for genuine sexual equality was women working in factories & on the land during the two major wars of the 20th century. a lot of men went to war and never returned. women didn't. and still don't." Hardly their fault though was it? Many women would have willingly been on the front line - we do have a history of this in the past - but have been forbidden due to their gender. | |||
"some would say that the real catalyst for genuine sexual equality was women working in factories & on the land during the two major wars of the 20th century. a lot of men went to war and never returned. women didn't. and still don't." Afraid that's not true. Look at the soe operatives, Russian fighter pilots etc...women are heavily involved in such matters now. I've had my arse saved by a woman many times, and no it wasn't a sexual thing on this occasion. | |||
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"some would say that the real catalyst for genuine sexual equality was women working in factories & on the land during the two major wars of the 20th century. a lot of men went to war and never returned. women didn't. and still don't." I would agree with that it put the class system into terminal decline and showed that women were in general as capable as men. | |||
"some would say that the real catalyst for genuine sexual equality was women working in factories & on the land during the two major wars of the 20th century. a lot of men went to war and never returned. women didn't. and still don't. Afraid that's not true. Look at the soe operatives, Russian fighter pilots etc...women are heavily involved in such matters now. I've had my arse saved by a woman many times, and no it wasn't a sexual thing on this occasion. " x | |||
"Rather a blinkered view to think that women don't go to war. " I think he may be referring to the front line which, in this country, women do not get sent into, usually. And certainly not in the two world wars. Though Israel and Russia, to name just a few, have a tradition of this. | |||
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"Rather a blinkered view to think that women don't go to war. I think he may be referring to the front line which, in this country, women do not get sent into, usually. And certainly not in the two world wars. Though Israel and Russia, to name just a few, have a tradition of this." I'm aware of all of this and perhaps a bit more. It's a blinkered view. | |||
"Rather a blinkered view to think that women don't go to war. I think he may be referring to the front line which, in this country, women do not get sent into, usually. And certainly not in the two world wars. Though Israel and Russia, to name just a few, have a tradition of this. I'm aware of all of this and perhaps a bit more. It's a blinkered view. " I agree to an extent. There has always been a tradition somewhere in the world of women fighting alongside men. | |||
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"Rather a blinkered view to think that women don't go to war. I think he may be referring to the front line which, in this country, women do not get sent into, usually. And certainly not in the two world wars. Though Israel and Russia, to name just a few, have a tradition of this. I'm aware of all of this and perhaps a bit more. It's a blinkered view. I agree to an extent. There has always been a tradition somewhere in the world of women fighting alongside men." Its a mindset. Women and men have complex differences...duh I hear you say, but whilst we can say, "when women do what we can dothen its equal" the fact remains, that we are basing this on the way we as men expect them to work and behave. Many women resolve and reduce conflict more effectively than men....so do they need to be as strong on this occasion? Examples are abundant, but its all about strengths and weaknesses and as always, those who's equilibrium is upset, always get touch about progress. | |||
" History proves societies attitudes toward the roles of men and women take many years to reach a balanced adjustment,,,, I think what’s been achieved so far has been commendable and I’ve no doubt as barriers continue to fall the rate of gender equality will speed up in all areas of life…. But today’s hard-liners continually banging their feminist drum will have little impact toward accelerating the natural momentum that was spurred on by the suffragette movement. "If you read up on the suffragettes you will see what hardliners they really were! They would not have been able to change the prevailing situation had they not been. | |||
"Rather a blinkered view to think that women don't go to war. I think he may be referring to the front line which, in this country, women do not get sent into, usually. And certainly not in the two world wars. Though Israel and Russia, to name just a few, have a tradition of this. I'm aware of all of this and perhaps a bit more. It's a blinkered view. I agree to an extent. There has always been a tradition somewhere in the world of women fighting alongside men. Its a mindset. Women and men have complex differences...duh I hear you say, but whilst we can say, "when women do what we can dothen its equal" the fact remains, that we are basing this on the way we as men expect them to work and behave. Many women resolve and reduce conflict more effectively than men....so do they need to be as strong on this occasion? Examples are abundant, but its all about strengths and weaknesses and as always, those who's equilibrium is upset, always get touch about progress. " It is all about the value of the person. Not whether they are equally strong, or intelligent, or whatever. When I used to work as a barmaid I was often ignored when barrels and kegs needed changing since I was female. But one young man I used to share a shift with was sent down once, in spite of my objections. I knew that he would not be able to do it. He spent some time in the cellar and was unable to even move the keg of Guinness let along hook it up (which was pretty tough). He was quite a slight lad and just did not have the strength. In the end I went down and had it hooked up in about 5 minutes flat. The landlord made the judgement based on gender rather than on actual ability. | |||
"Rather a blinkered view to think that women don't go to war. I think he may be referring to the front line which, in this country, women do not get sent into, usually. And certainly not in the two world wars. Though Israel and Russia, to name just a few, have a tradition of this. I'm aware of all of this and perhaps a bit more. It's a blinkered view. I agree to an extent. There has always been a tradition somewhere in the world of women fighting alongside men. Its a mindset. Women and men have complex differences...duh I hear you say, but whilst we can say, "when women do what we can dothen its equal" the fact remains, that we are basing this on the way we as men expect them to work and behave. Many women resolve and reduce conflict more effectively than men....so do they need to be as strong on this occasion? Examples are abundant, but its all about strengths and weaknesses and as always, those who's equilibrium is upset, always get touch about progress. It is all about the value of the person. Not whether they are equally strong, or intelligent, or whatever. When I used to work as a barmaid I was often ignored when barrels and kegs needed changing since I was female. But one young man I used to share a shift with was sent down once, in spite of my objections. I knew that he would not be able to do it. He spent some time in the cellar and was unable to even move the keg of Guinness let along hook it up (which was pretty tough). He was quite a slight lad and just did not have the strength. In the end I went down and had it hooked up in about 5 minutes flat. The landlord made the judgement based on gender rather than on actual ability."  you left the bar unattended? I had so much respect until you said that. | |||
"Rather a blinkered view to think that women don't go to war. I think he may be referring to the front line which, in this country, women do not get sent into, usually. And certainly not in the two world wars. Though Israel and Russia, to name just a few, have a tradition of this. I'm aware of all of this and perhaps a bit more. It's a blinkered view. I agree to an extent. There has always been a tradition somewhere in the world of women fighting alongside men. Its a mindset. Women and men have complex differences...duh I hear you say, but whilst we can say, "when women do what we can dothen its equal" the fact remains, that we are basing this on the way we as men expect them to work and behave. Many women resolve and reduce conflict more effectively than men....so do they need to be as strong on this occasion? Examples are abundant, but its all about strengths and weaknesses and as always, those who's equilibrium is upset, always get touch about progress. It is all about the value of the person. Not whether they are equally strong, or intelligent, or whatever. When I used to work as a barmaid I was often ignored when barrels and kegs needed changing since I was female. But one young man I used to share a shift with was sent down once, in spite of my objections. I knew that he would not be able to do it. He spent some time in the cellar and was unable to even move the keg of Guinness let along hook it up (which was pretty tough). He was quite a slight lad and just did not have the strength. In the end I went down and had it hooked up in about 5 minutes flat. The landlord made the judgement based on gender rather than on actual ability. you left the bar unattended? I had so much respect until you said that. "No, I didn't. The landlord was there - and the barman was taking so long customers were complaining. So I asked him if I could go down and 'help'. As it was I just did it myself. | |||
"Rather a blinkered view to think that women don't go to war. I think he may be referring to the front line which, in this country, women do not get sent into, usually. And certainly not in the two world wars. Though Israel and Russia, to name just a few, have a tradition of this. I'm aware of all of this and perhaps a bit more. It's a blinkered view. I agree to an extent. There has always been a tradition somewhere in the world of women fighting alongside men. Its a mindset. Women and men have complex differences...duh I hear you say, but whilst we can say, "when women do what we can dothen its equal" the fact remains, that we are basing this on the way we as men expect them to work and behave. Many women resolve and reduce conflict more effectively than men....so do they need to be as strong on this occasion? Examples are abundant, but its all about strengths and weaknesses and as always, those who's equilibrium is upset, always get touch about progress. It is all about the value of the person. Not whether they are equally strong, or intelligent, or whatever. When I used to work as a barmaid I was often ignored when barrels and kegs needed changing since I was female. But one young man I used to share a shift with was sent down once, in spite of my objections. I knew that he would not be able to do it. He spent some time in the cellar and was unable to even move the keg of Guinness let along hook it up (which was pretty tough). He was quite a slight lad and just did not have the strength. In the end I went down and had it hooked up in about 5 minutes flat. The landlord made the judgement based on gender rather than on actual ability. you left the bar unattended? I had so much respect until you said that.
No, I didn't. The landlord was there - and the barman was taking so long customers were complaining. So I asked him if I could go down and 'help'. As it was I just did it myself."Oh come on Db I agree with all you say...not being patronising....was teasing.  | |||
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" History proves societies attitudes toward the roles of men and women take many years to reach a balanced adjustment,,,, I think what’s been achieved so far has been commendable and I’ve no doubt as barriers continue to fall the rate of gender equality will speed up in all areas of life…. But today’s hard-liners continually banging their feminist drum will have little impact toward accelerating the natural momentum that was spurred on by the suffragette movement.
If you read up on the suffragettes you will see what hardliners they really were! They would not have been able to change the prevailing situation had they not been."I agree totally, their strength got the ball rolling….. I also think one of the added issues we now face living in a mutli-cultural Britain is the importation of some deep routed attitudes towards gender specific roles which may well slow the rate of change across those areas of our society...  | |||
" History proves societies attitudes toward the roles of men and women take many years to reach a balanced adjustment,,,, I think what’s been achieved so far has been commendable and I’ve no doubt as barriers continue to fall the rate of gender equality will speed up in all areas of life…. But today’s hard-liners continually banging their feminist drum will have little impact toward accelerating the natural momentum that was spurred on by the suffragette movement.
If you read up on the suffragettes you will see what hardliners they really were! They would not have been able to change the prevailing situation had they not been.
I agree totally, their strength got the ball rolling…..
I also think one of the added issues we now face living in a mutli-cultural Britain is the importation of some deep routed attitudes towards gender specific roles which may well slow the rate of change across those areas of our society...
"It is possible. I would also argue that many Muslim women are not as downtrodden as people imagine. My ex-husband was Muslim and the majority of the women in his family were the ones who called the shots! | |||
"Rather a blinkered view to think that women don't go to war. I think he may be referring to the front line which, in this country, women do not get sent into, usually. And certainly not in the two world wars. Though Israel and Russia, to name just a few, have a tradition of this. I'm aware of all of this and perhaps a bit more. It's a blinkered view. I agree to an extent. There has always been a tradition somewhere in the world of women fighting alongside men. Its a mindset. Women and men have complex differences...duh I hear you say, but whilst we can say, "when women do what we can dothen its equal" the fact remains, that we are basing this on the way we as men expect them to work and behave. Many women resolve and reduce conflict more effectively than men....so do they need to be as strong on this occasion? Examples are abundant, but its all about strengths and weaknesses and as always, those who's equilibrium is upset, always get touch about progress. It is all about the value of the person. Not whether they are equally strong, or intelligent, or whatever. When I used to work as a barmaid I was often ignored when barrels and kegs needed changing since I was female. But one young man I used to share a shift with was sent down once, in spite of my objections. I knew that he would not be able to do it. He spent some time in the cellar and was unable to even move the keg of Guinness let along hook it up (which was pretty tough). He was quite a slight lad and just did not have the strength. In the end I went down and had it hooked up in about 5 minutes flat. The landlord made the judgement based on gender rather than on actual ability. you left the bar unattended? I had so much respect until you said that.
No, I didn't. The landlord was there - and the barman was taking so long customers were complaining. So I asked him if I could go down and 'help'. As it was I just did it myself.
Oh come on Db I agree with all you say...not being patronising....was teasing. "I didn't think you were patronising! Feminists do have a sense of humour - honest! | |||
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"It's a great thread. Equal pay has yet to be achieved. Osborne's decision to remove the start of the public equality duty on pay for statutory organisations a couple of budgets ago, the effect of the cuts hitting women harder (see Women's Resource Centre, Women and the Cuts 2012 factsheet), and employer attitudes during a recession are all working together to keep gender inequality alive and well. The Cabinet of 23 has only four women. Look at the Fawcett Society for other information on current inequality." And yet, if you read the current anti-feminist rhetoric we already have 'too much' equality! Though quite how we can have that I am not sure. Equality is equality - if it is 'more' or 'too much' then it is not equality. | |||
"It's a great thread. Equal pay has yet to be achieved. Osborne's decision to remove the start of the public equality duty on pay for statutory organisations a couple of budgets ago, the effect of the cuts hitting women harder (see Women's Resource Centre, Women and the Cuts 2012 factsheet), and employer attitudes during a recession are all working together to keep gender inequality alive and well. The Cabinet of 23 has only four women. Look at the Fawcett Society for other information on current inequality. And yet, if you read the current anti-feminist rhetoric we already have 'too much' equality! Though quite how we can have that I am not sure. Equality is equality - if it is 'more' or 'too much' then it is not equality." I think the issue is that people confuse doing the same for everyone as equality. If you start 100 yards behind, carrying a heavy weight and are given the same time to run the race, the giving of the same time to run the race is not really equality. That is what is being faced. To reach true equality you sometimes have to do different things to even out the race track. | |||
"It's a great thread. Equal pay has yet to be achieved. Osborne's decision to remove the start of the public equality duty on pay for statutory organisations a couple of budgets ago, the effect of the cuts hitting women harder (see Women's Resource Centre, Women and the Cuts 2012 factsheet), and employer attitudes during a recession are all working together to keep gender inequality alive and well. The Cabinet of 23 has only four women. Look at the Fawcett Society for other information on current inequality. And yet, if you read the current anti-feminist rhetoric we already have 'too much' equality! Though quite how we can have that I am not sure. Equality is equality - if it is 'more' or 'too much' then it is not equality. I think the issue is that people confuse doing the same for everyone as equality. If you start 100 yards behind, carrying a heavy weight and are given the same time to run the race, the giving of the same time to run the race is not really equality. That is what is being faced. To reach true equality you sometimes have to do different things to even out the race track." Completely agree - but many do not see this. They think that quotas, etc, are giving some an unfair advantage. | |||
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"Surely even the most ardent feminist must appreciate the logic that true accross the board equality is only of value when it doesn’t bring standards down…." Depends on who is setting the standards. However, if someone is to be given a job it should be because they are competent to do it. That's simple common sense. | |||
"Surely even the most ardent feminist must appreciate the logic that true accross the board equality is only of value when it doesn’t bring standards down…. Depends on who is setting the standards. However, if someone is to be given a job it should be because they are competent to do it. That's simple common sense." But surely the definition of equality is that it's not open to interpretation,,, | |||
"Surely even the most ardent feminist must appreciate the logic that true accross the board equality is only of value when it doesn’t bring standards down…. Depends on who is setting the standards. However, if someone is to be given a job it should be because they are competent to do it. That's simple common sense. But surely the definition of equality is that it's not open to interpretation,,, "Which would make life much easier when buying shoes,,,    | |||
"Surely even the most ardent feminist must appreciate the logic that true accross the board equality is only of value when it doesn’t bring standards down…. Depends on who is setting the standards. However, if someone is to be given a job it should be because they are competent to do it. That's simple common sense. But surely the definition of equality is that it's not open to interpretation,,, "I'm not saying it is. But who sets certain standards? Those standards can be open to interpretation. None of us are unbiased - which is why legislation is required. | |||
"Surely even the most ardent feminist must appreciate the logic that true accross the board equality is only of value when it doesn’t bring standards down…. Depends on who is setting the standards. However, if someone is to be given a job it should be because they are competent to do it. That's simple common sense. But surely the definition of equality is that it's not open to interpretation,,,
I'm not saying it is. But who sets certain standards? Those standards can be open to interpretation. None of us are unbiased - which is why legislation is required."But will the feminist movement accept legislation which is debated and passed by committee and contains a number of compromises from all sides….. Because that’s how democracy usually works,,,, is it not! | |||
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"Let's not forget that marital rape only became an offence in England and Wales in 1991. And while two women every week are killed by their partners with no outcry from society it is not hard to feel that women are considered disposable. When I first began to call myself a feminist I had many (earnest and fuelled by barleycup) discussions about the joyous day when I could change that name to egalitarian. It has been nearly thirty years and unfortunately I'm still a feminist. I believe in equality for all. But when some debaters still think that calling someone a bull feminist lezza and mocking and deriding a valid opinion is acceptable argument then I will stand by my reactionary origins and keep fighting for the sisterhood." That response is a breathe of fresh air to me! Thank you. | |||
"Surely even the most ardent feminist must appreciate the logic that true accross the board equality is only of value when it doesn’t bring standards down…. Depends on who is setting the standards. However, if someone is to be given a job it should be because they are competent to do it. That's simple common sense. But surely the definition of equality is that it's not open to interpretation,,,
I'm not saying it is. But who sets certain standards? Those standards can be open to interpretation. None of us are unbiased - which is why legislation is required.
But will the feminist movement accept legislation which is debated and passed by committee and contains a number of compromises from all sides…..
Because that’s how democracy usually works,,,, is it not! "Real change often only comes from activism - that can be radical or more passive. Although, as history would suggest, radical action gains more and better results. | |||
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"hey men are doomed anyway,,,in fact I’ll only give another millennia until we see men’s presence on earth reduced to nothing more than a few dozen spunk filled test-tubes held in a coin operated self-fertilisation clinic… "Well, that would be a shame because I quite like men. | |||
"Speaking as some one who is on the receiving end of the feminist driven family law in the UK I can say that it has done nothing for me. It has allowed a judge to ignore my rights as a human being and it has allowed a woman to indulge herself in a touch of child abuse by denying my son access to me. So yeah, it's been effing great!" Sorry - but that is not the fault of feminism. That is a reductive argument. | |||
"Speaking as some one who is on the receiving end of the feminist driven family law in the UK I can say that it has done nothing for me. It has allowed a judge to ignore my rights as a human being and it has allowed a woman to indulge herself in a touch of child abuse by denying my son access to me. So yeah, it's been effing great! Sorry - but that is not the fault of feminism. That is a reductive argument." Yeah right, feminism in the 60's and 70's promoted an anti male agenda which penetrated family law in the UK. | |||
"Trouble is cultural attitudes need to change, and they are slowly. However the word feminism as you highlighted has been falsely associated with all manner of things. The treatment of all people fairly, with decency, and with consideration is what matters most. Its a long battle but hats off to those who fight it....don't forget many guys support you. " I know - have had many discussions with men about it. Many women can be surprised at their attitude. Of course there are going to be those who are against - but, what dismays me more, are the number of women who are so disparaging of feminism. That's part of the reason I opened the thread and made that list - which is not a full and complete one. So many women today take the freedoms they have for granted and seem to have no conception of how they were achieved. | |||
"Speaking as some one who is on the receiving end of the feminist driven family law in the UK I can say that it has done nothing for me. It has allowed a judge to ignore my rights as a human being and it has allowed a woman to indulge herself in a touch of child abuse by denying my son access to me. So yeah, it's been effing great! Sorry - but that is not the fault of feminism. That is a reductive argument. Yeah right, feminism in the 60's and 70's promoted an anti male agenda which penetrated family law in the UK." Look - go away and do some reading. I am not getting into a silly argument with you. It was, in fact, a pro-women agenda. And be thankful for it. Our daughters now benefit from that. I am sorry you have had a bad time at the hands of the powers that be - I also did only from the other perspective. Neither is right - but to blame it on feminism is a nonsense. | |||
"Speaking as some one who is on the receiving end of the feminist driven family law in the UK I can say that it has done nothing for me. It has allowed a judge to ignore my rights as a human being and it has allowed a woman to indulge herself in a touch of child abuse by denying my son access to me. So yeah, it's been effing great! Sorry - but that is not the fault of feminism. That is a reductive argument. Yeah right, feminism in the 60's and 70's promoted an anti male agenda which penetrated family law in the UK. Look - go away and do some reading. I am not getting into a silly argument with you. It was, in fact, a pro-women agenda. And be thankful for it. Our daughters now benefit from that. I am sorry you have had a bad time at the hands of the powers that be - I also did only from the other perspective. Neither is right - but to blame it on feminism is a nonsense." Ive done plenty of reading thanks, Ive also been threatened with an arrest by a WPC for the heinous crime of trying to see my son. Until family law is made gender neutral and not fed by an anti male set of laws dads will continue to be screwed over. | |||
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"Step away from the keyboard Gran..... " Lol | |||
"Personally women get it to much their own way. The Lady who stood up to the killers of lee rigby. So much has been made of her as wonderfull. Did she save any trouble or death no. But because shes a woman shes getting a load of good press. On embaressing bodies you do not see full frontal of a woman inspecting themselves. Women are protected from that.yet the men are often mocked with snidey comnents and displayed in full" Did you know that one of the CO 19 officer in woolwich who engaged the individuals with a firearm was female ? We can all think of male and female examples of poor behavior. The op isn't trying to defend that I believe. Coincidentally there's no such thing as wpc anymore, its simply pc as I believe that's the job title....irrelevant what the gender is ? | |||
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"Let's not forget that marital rape only became an offence in England and Wales in 1991. And while two women every week are killed by their partners with no outcry from society it is not hard to feel that women are considered disposable. When I first began to call myself a feminist I had many (earnest and fuelled by barleycup) discussions about the joyous day when I could change that name to egalitarian. It has been nearly thirty years and unfortunately I'm still a feminist. I believe in equality for all. But when some debaters still think that calling someone a bull feminist lezza and mocking and deriding a valid opinion is acceptable argument then I will stand by my reactionary origins and keep fighting for the sisterhood. That response is a breathe of fresh air to me! Thank you." and myself.. | |||
"Not at all mysoginistic but women in general do not know how to cope with there emanicipation ...new found freedoms have led to carte blance to behave as badly as men ...this manifests in d*unken violent behaviour and inability to deal with power ...only an observation but i see a plethora of brow beaten ball busted men and a general demise in real femininity and the social ramifications of that .Perhaps the recent fifty shades phenomenan is womens subliminal longing for a return to real masculine authourity" which has what to do with equality..? | |||
"Personally women get it to much their own way. The Lady who stood up to the killers of lee rigby. So much has been made of her as wonderfull. Did she save any trouble or death no. But because shes a woman shes getting a load of good press. On embaressing bodies you do not see full frontal of a woman inspecting themselves. Women are protected from that.yet the men are often mocked with snidey comnents and displayed in full" i think she has received praise and rightly so cos she approached a nutter armed with multiple weapons who she had seen or was aware had just hacked a guy to death.. she had no idea he would not attack her as she approached.. the praise is cos she was a brave person.. not a woman.. | |||
"Not at all mysoginistic but women in general do not know how to cope with there emanicipation ...new found freedoms have led to carte blance to behave as badly as men ...this manifests in d*unken violent behaviour and inability to deal with power ...only an observation but i see a plethora of brow beaten ball busted men and a general demise in real femininity and the social ramifications of that .Perhaps the recent fifty shades phenomenan is womens subliminal longing for a return to real masculine authouritythere is never real equality just differences that should be enjoyed and celebrated which has what to do with equality..?" | |||
"Not at all mysoginistic but women in general do not know how to cope with there emanicipation ...new found freedoms have led to carte blance to behave as badly as men ...this manifests in d*unken violent behaviour and inability to deal with power ...only an observation but i see a plethora of brow beaten ball busted men and a general demise in real femininity and the social ramifications of that .Perhaps the recent fifty shades phenomenan is womens subliminal longing for a return to real masculine authouritythere is never real equality just differences that should be enjoyed and celebrated which has what to do with equality..?" there is never real equality only differences that perhaps should be celebrated and enjoyed | |||
"Not at all mysoginistic but women in general do not know how to cope with there emanicipation ...new found freedoms have led to carte blance to behave as badly as men ...this manifests in d*unken violent behaviour and inability to deal with power ...only an observation but i see a plethora of brow beaten ball busted men and a general demise in real femininity and the social ramifications of that .Perhaps the recent fifty shades phenomenan is womens subliminal longing for a return to real masculine authouritythere is never real equality just differences that should be enjoyed and celebrated which has what to do with equality..?there is never real equality only differences that perhaps should be celebrated and enjoyed" Yep celebrate diversity...with you on that, not in the context of your text as I read it though. Apologies if I read it wrong though. | |||
"Not at all mysoginistic but women in general do not know how to cope with there emanicipation ...new found freedoms have led to carte blance to behave as badly as men ...this manifests in d*unken violent behaviour and inability to deal with power ...only an observation but i see a plethora of brow beaten ball busted men and a general demise in real femininity and the social ramifications of that .Perhaps the recent fifty shades phenomenan is womens subliminal longing for a return to real masculine authourity" Can you start this one again without the first four words please. | |||
"Not at all mysoginistic but women in general do not know how to cope with there emanicipation ...new found freedoms have led to carte blance to behave as badly as men ...this manifests in d*unken violent behaviour and inability to deal with power ...only an observation but i see a plethora of brow beaten ball busted men and a general demise in real femininity and the social ramifications of that .Perhaps the recent fifty shades phenomenan is womens subliminal longing for a return to real masculine authouritythere is never real equality just differences that should be enjoyed and celebrated which has what to do with equality..?there is never real equality only differences that perhaps should be celebrated and enjoyed" agree on your last point.. not sure the 50 shades pile of tripe is the right analogy though.. | |||
"A WPC .... bet that stung. No one is arrested for trying to visit their child. " I was going to be arrested. Got it? That simple wpc sided with mum. Gender equality my arse | |||
"A WPC .... bet that stung. No one is arrested for trying to visit their child. I was going to be arrested. Got it? That simple wpc sided with mum. Gender equality my arse" Well I'm sure that was very frustrating then as any issue with child custody is very hurtful. I'm sorry you experienced favouritism that's not fair, however I think that's an issue not related to feminism. | |||
"A WPC .... bet that stung. No one is arrested for trying to visit their child. I was going to be arrested. Got it? That simple wpc sided with mum. Gender equality my arse" That is one single case. And it was wrong, given the facts I have gleaned from you. But that, in itself, does not make the entire Feminist Movement wrong! | |||
"Not at all mysoginistic but women in general do not know how to cope with there emanicipation ...new found freedoms have led to carte blance to behave as badly as men ...this manifests in d*unken violent behaviour and inability to deal with power ...only an observation but i see a plethora of brow beaten ball busted men and a general demise in real femininity and the social ramifications of that .Perhaps the recent fifty shades phenomenan is womens subliminal longing for a return to real masculine authourity" I have no idea where to start with this! LOL So, I won't bother! | |||
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"Surely even the most ardent feminist must appreciate the logic that true accross the board equality is only of value when it doesn’t bring standards down…. Depends on who is setting the standards. However, if someone is to be given a job it should be because they are competent to do it. That's simple common sense. But surely the definition of equality is that it's not open to interpretation,,,
I'm not saying it is. But who sets certain standards? Those standards can be open to interpretation. None of us are unbiased - which is why legislation is required.
But will the feminist movement accept legislation which is debated and passed by committee and contains a number of compromises from all sides…..
Because that’s how democracy usually works,,,, is it not!
Real change often only comes from activism - that can be radical or more passive. Although, as history would suggest, radical action gains more and better results."Activism is undeniably crucial but in order to understand why legislation became intellectually accepted we need to recognise the impact of technological, medical, scientific, and sociological advances on the lives of women since the beginning of the 20th century. | |||
"Surely even the most ardent feminist must appreciate the logic that true accross the board equality is only of value when it doesn’t bring standards down…. Depends on who is setting the standards. However, if someone is to be given a job it should be because they are competent to do it. That's simple common sense. But surely the definition of equality is that it's not open to interpretation,,,
I'm not saying it is. But who sets certain standards? Those standards can be open to interpretation. None of us are unbiased - which is why legislation is required.
But will the feminist movement accept legislation which is debated and passed by committee and contains a number of compromises from all sides…..
Because that’s how democracy usually works,,,, is it not!
Real change often only comes from activism - that can be radical or more passive. Although, as history would suggest, radical action gains more and better results.
Activism is undeniably crucial but in order to understand why legislation became intellectually accepted we need to recognise the impact of technological, medical, scientific, and sociological advances on the lives of women since the beginning of the 20th century."Yes, to an extent this is true - but also arguable in some areas. Psychiatry for example. Why is it that women are more likely to be committed? Just as one example. | |||
"there is never real equality only differences that perhaps should be celebrated and enjoyed" Equality is about ensuring that power structures in society don't stop human beings from having a fair crack at life because they didn't luck out in the birth lottery, not denying that there's difference between people. | |||
"there is never real equality only differences that perhaps should be celebrated and enjoyed Equality is about ensuring that power structures in society don't stop human beings from having a fair crack at life because they didn't luck out in the birth lottery, not denying that there's difference between people." | |||
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"Not nearly enough "equality", I'll be happy when I see....; 1/ 50% of all front line troops are women 2/ 50% of all miners / fishermen / steelworkers / labourers are women 3/ 50% of all council houses are given to single dads 4/ 50% of all child benefits etc given to dads, oh yeah, and 50% custody too 5/ removal of 100% of the pussy pass whenever a woman fucks up and the law etc is applied EXACTLY as it would be to a man 6/ 100% removal of so called no fault divorce etc etc won't happen of course, because these types of women want to have their cake and eat it too. should never have given them the vote, women en masse are no more than "useful idiots" whom you can market absolutely ANY bizzare and wacko idea to " Oh I love this! The irony!! | |||
"Surely even the most ardent feminist must appreciate the logic that true accross the board equality is only of value when it doesn’t bring standards down…. Depends on who is setting the standards. However, if someone is to be given a job it should be because they are competent to do it. That's simple common sense. But surely the definition of equality is that it's not open to interpretation,,,
I'm not saying it is. But who sets certain standards? Those standards can be open to interpretation. None of us are unbiased - which is why legislation is required.
But will the feminist movement accept legislation which is debated and passed by committee and contains a number of compromises from all sides…..
Because that’s how democracy usually works,,,, is it not!
Real change often only comes from activism - that can be radical or more passive. Although, as history would suggest, radical action gains more and better results.
Activism is undeniably crucial but in order to understand why legislation became intellectually accepted we need to recognise the impact of technological, medical, scientific, and sociological advances on the lives of women since the beginning of the 20th century.
Yes, to an extent this is true - but also arguable in some areas. Psychiatry for example. Why is it that women are more likely to be committed? Just as one example."I think it's arguable in lots of areas..wasn't claiming there are no inequities, there are plenty alive and kicking. However it seems undeniable to me that major advancements, like those in birth control, have contributed positively in liberating women. | |||
"Surely even the most ardent feminist must appreciate the logic that true accross the board equality is only of value when it doesn’t bring standards down…. Depends on who is setting the standards. However, if someone is to be given a job it should be because they are competent to do it. That's simple common sense. But surely the definition of equality is that it's not open to interpretation,,,
I'm not saying it is. But who sets certain standards? Those standards can be open to interpretation. None of us are unbiased - which is why legislation is required.
But will the feminist movement accept legislation which is debated and passed by committee and contains a number of compromises from all sides…..
Because that’s how democracy usually works,,,, is it not!
Real change often only comes from activism - that can be radical or more passive. Although, as history would suggest, radical action gains more and better results.
Activism is undeniably crucial but in order to understand why legislation became intellectually accepted we need to recognise the impact of technological, medical, scientific, and sociological advances on the lives of women since the beginning of the 20th century.
Yes, to an extent this is true - but also arguable in some areas. Psychiatry for example. Why is it that women are more likely to be committed? Just as one example.
I think it's arguable in lots of areas..wasn't claiming there are no inequities, there are plenty alive and kicking. However it seems undeniable to me that major advancements, like those in birth control, have contributed positively in liberating women.
"I would agree - but I also feel that, certainly the early pill, was something of an experiment. I also feel that there are surgeries which are done on women which are, to this day, wholly unnecessary. The removal of the uterus, is a good example, for fibroids. I was told that, since I was over 40, I didn't need it anymore anyway! LOL Needless to say I still have my uterus and I also no longer have fibroids. Luckily I am able to fight my corner - but many women cannot, or do not feel they can. | |||
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"Not nearly enough "equality", I'll be happy when I see....; 1/ 50% of all front line troops are women 2/ 50% of all miners / fishermen / steelworkers / labourers are women 3/ 50% of all council houses are given to single dads 4/ 50% of all child benefits etc given to dads, oh yeah, and 50% custody too 5/ removal of 100% of the pussy pass whenever a woman fucks up and the law etc is applied EXACTLY as it would be to a man 6/ 100% removal of so called no fault divorce etc etc won't happen of course, because these types of women want to have their cake and eat it too. should never have given them the vote, women en masse are no more than "useful idiots" whom you can market absolutely ANY bizzare and wacko idea to Oh I love this! The irony!!" It does sum up in one handy post just how far we have to go when there are people with these attitudes. And I am not man-bashing - I hear this sort of thing from women too. | |||
"Not nearly enough "equality", I'll be happy when I see....; 1/ 50% of all front line troops are women 2/ 50% of all miners / fishermen / steelworkers / labourers are women 3/ 50% of all council houses are given to single dads 4/ 50% of all child benefits etc given to dads, oh yeah, and 50% custody too 5/ removal of 100% of the pussy pass whenever a woman fucks up and the law etc is applied EXACTLY as it would be to a man 6/ 100% removal of so called no fault divorce etc etc won't happen of course, because these types of women want to have their cake and eat it too. should never have given them the vote, women en masse are no more than "useful idiots" whom you can market absolutely ANY bizzare and wacko idea to Oh I love this! The irony!! It does sum up in one handy post just how far we have to go when there are people with these attitudes. And I am not man-bashing - I hear this sort of thing from women too." Sadly, so do I. It is depressing. | |||
"Surely even the most ardent feminist must appreciate the logic that true accross the board equality is only of value when it doesn’t bring standards down…. Depends on who is setting the standards. However, if someone is to be given a job it should be because they are competent to do it. That's simple common sense. But surely the definition of equality is that it's not open to interpretation,,,
I'm not saying it is. But who sets certain standards? Those standards can be open to interpretation. None of us are unbiased - which is why legislation is required.
But will the feminist movement accept legislation which is debated and passed by committee and contains a number of compromises from all sides…..
Because that’s how democracy usually works,,,, is it not!
Real change often only comes from activism - that can be radical or more passive. Although, as history would suggest, radical action gains more and better results.
Activism is undeniably crucial but in order to understand why legislation became intellectually accepted we need to recognise the impact of technological, medical, scientific, and sociological advances on the lives of women since the beginning of the 20th century.
Yes, to an extent this is true - but also arguable in some areas. Psychiatry for example. Why is it that women are more likely to be committed? Just as one example.
I think it's arguable in lots of areas..wasn't claiming there are no inequities, there are plenty alive and kicking. However it seems undeniable to me that major advancements, like those in birth control, have contributed positively in liberating women.
I would agree - but I also feel that, certainly the early pill, was something of an experiment. I also feel that there are surgeries which are done on women which are, to this day, wholly unnecessary. The removal of the uterus, is a good example, for fibroids. I was told that, since I was over 40, I didn't need it anymore anyway! LOL Needless to say I still have my uterus and I also no longer have fibroids. Luckily I am able to fight my corner - but many women cannot, or do not feel they can. "Well I certainly can..lol...my point was more about the history of the above advancements impacting on women since the beginning of the 20th century. Of course, as I previously noted, there is much still to improve. It's not so long ago that women, in this country, wanting an abortion went through what amounted to a moral inquisition from, invariably, a male Doctor. | |||
" Sadly, so do I. It is depressing." Get used to it, it's going to get a *lot* worse for women over the next decade or three... .. at the moment there are some metrosexuals and pussy beggars playing lip service to it all whenever women are in earshot in the hope of getting some pussy, but the backlash is starting. Every day the secret family court system creates actual misogynists, and who can blame them for feeling that way, every day the "all men are rapists and paedos" hystera makes more every time a guy decides to eat his sandwiches in the park. Every day the rise of radical muslim beliefs as a proportion of society (turn around three times saying I divorce thee) brings more of the same You want real irony? You want to know where the MOST misogynistic men can be found? The yoof of today, brought up by single mothers with nary a father figure in sight, these are the guys your precious daughters are going to have to contend with. Y'all think *I* am a misogynistic dinosaur, you want to wake up and smell the coffee, I'm the conservative who is frankly shocked by the callousness of the younger generation of males. Y'all might also be surprised, like all the "safe sex only" women who are more than happy to bounce up and down on my cock bareback, there is also no shortage of women who want a traditional real man who hasn't got any time for all the treehugging feminist bullshit | |||
"Surely even the most ardent feminist must appreciate the logic that true accross the board equality is only of value when it doesn’t bring standards down…. Depends on who is setting the standards. However, if someone is to be given a job it should be because they are competent to do it. That's simple common sense. But surely the definition of equality is that it's not open to interpretation,,,
I'm not saying it is. But who sets certain standards? Those standards can be open to interpretation. None of us are unbiased - which is why legislation is required.
But will the feminist movement accept legislation which is debated and passed by committee and contains a number of compromises from all sides…..
Because that’s how democracy usually works,,,, is it not!
Real change often only comes from activism - that can be radical or more passive. Although, as history would suggest, radical action gains more and better results.
Activism is undeniably crucial but in order to understand why legislation became intellectually accepted we need to recognise the impact of technological, medical, scientific, and sociological advances on the lives of women since the beginning of the 20th century.
Yes, to an extent this is true - but also arguable in some areas. Psychiatry for example. Why is it that women are more likely to be committed? Just as one example.
I think it's arguable in lots of areas..wasn't claiming there are no inequities, there are plenty alive and kicking. However it seems undeniable to me that major advancements, like those in birth control, have contributed positively in liberating women.
I would agree - but I also feel that, certainly the early pill, was something of an experiment. I also feel that there are surgeries which are done on women which are, to this day, wholly unnecessary. The removal of the uterus, is a good example, for fibroids. I was told that, since I was over 40, I didn't need it anymore anyway! LOL Needless to say I still have my uterus and I also no longer have fibroids. Luckily I am able to fight my corner - but many women cannot, or do not feel they can.
Well I certainly can..lol...my point was more about the history of the above advancements impacting on women since the beginning of the 20th century.
Of course, as I previously noted, there is much still to improve. It's not so long ago that women, in this country, wanting an abortion went through what amounted to a moral inquisition from, invariably, a male Doctor.
"They used to go through that just for the emergency contraception. It happened to me! Bloody cheeky GP who told me to have a 'chat' with the practice nurse about contraception. I was 34, had a 15 year old daughter and had simply had an accident (split condom). I pointed out that I had managed to avoid pregnancy for 15 years and that I did not require a lecture thank you. Fortunately it is more easily obtained, as you say. There have been many advances which have, also, liberated women greatly. But I would say that legislative change has been the greatest at bringing freedoms. | |||
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"Y'all might also be surprised, like all the "safe sex only" women who are more than happy to bounce up and down on my cock bareback, there is also no shortage of women who want a traditional real man who hasn't got any time for all the treehugging feminist bullshit" To be fair, I agree with you regarding absolute parity in the job market. The problem is that, when women aren't allowed to be frontline troops or work in heavy industry, its not women preventing them from doing so. I went for a job at Blue Circle once and was told that, as I was female, I wouldn't be able to stand the swearing. I mean, I can swear up a blue streak too. What was that about? However, you can be a 'real man' and still acknowledge that there are problems with females having equal rights. I know many. | |||
" However, you can be a 'real man' and still acknowledge that there are problems with females having equal rights. I know many." The thing is, "rights" have a cost to everyone else, and they *should* come with the appropriate responsibilities. For example a driving licence, giving me the right to drive add to the tax burden of everyone else, the road congestion for everyone else, and the risk for everyone else, however with the right to drive I am given the responsibility to drive safely, in a roadworthy vehicle, with insurance etc when you give single mothers the right to go to the head of the housing queue etc etc, you cannot then act all surprised when lots of young girls see it as a career... there are in effect no responsibilities which must be adhered to or the rights are removed. The women I know who DO GENUINELY get the shit end of the stick are nowadays getting it at the hands of team vagina, not the evil patriarchy. See Neimoller | |||
" However, you can be a 'real man' and still acknowledge that there are problems with females having equal rights. I know many. The thing is, "rights" have a cost to everyone else, and they *should* come with the appropriate responsibilities. For example a driving licence, giving me the right to drive add to the tax burden of everyone else, the road congestion for everyone else, and the risk for everyone else, however with the right to drive I am given the responsibility to drive safely, in a roadworthy vehicle, with insurance etc when you give single mothers the right to go to the head of the housing queue etc etc, you cannot then act all surprised when lots of young girls see it as a career... there are in effect no responsibilities which must be adhered to or the rights are removed. The women I know who DO GENUINELY get the shit end of the stick are nowadays getting it at the hands of team vagina, not the evil patriarchy. See Neimoller" I think you mean single unemployed mothers. I've been a single mother most of my daughters life and have never got any freebies out of it. In which case we have moved onto the welfare state, which is a whole new kettle of fish. And I agree that women can be just as bad as men at giving reasons why women should not have equality. Which is very depressing. People who benefit from legislation yet still complain about it have not really thought things through. | |||
" And I agree that women can be just as bad as men at giving reasons why women should not have equality. Which is very depressing. People who benefit from legislation yet still complain about it have not really thought things through." I stand corrected on the single mum / unemployed single mum thing..
As for the other, there is a member on here, we are currently seeing one another, basically had her career terminated with malice by team vagina playing the usual feminist cards, see, this woman could actually do her bloody job, whereas team vagina spent all day discussing the oppression of the patriarchy etc
my "see neimoller" comment above was reference to this, we have come so far down this bullshit road that when this person had their career terminated with malice, there was no fucker left to take a step forward and stand by her.
there were plenty left, but they are silent.
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" And I agree that women can be just as bad as men at giving reasons why women should not have equality. Which is very depressing. People who benefit from legislation yet still complain about it have not really thought things through. I stand corrected on the single mum / unemployed single mum thing..
As for the other, there is a member on here, we are currently seeing one another, basically had her career terminated with malice by team vagina playing the usual feminist cards, see, this woman could actually do her bloody job, whereas team vagina spent all day discussing the oppression of the patriarchy etc
my "see neimoller" comment above was reference to this, we have come so far down this bullshit road that when this person had their career terminated with malice, there was no fucker left to take a step forward and stand by her.
there were plenty left, but they are silent.
"Y'see, I know this happens, but it doesn't happen often. Its like the guy above who complained that emancipation has prevented him from seeing his child - it happens, but its incredibly rare. Blaming feminism as a concept for the behaviour of a select few women is like blaming the men for the invasion of Poland because a man was responsible. | |||
" And I agree that women can be just as bad as men at giving reasons why women should not have equality. Which is very depressing. People who benefit from legislation yet still complain about it have not really thought things through. I stand corrected on the single mum / unemployed single mum thing..
As for the other, there is a member on here, we are currently seeing one another, basically had her career terminated with malice by team vagina playing the usual feminist cards, see, this woman could actually do her bloody job, whereas team vagina spent all day discussing the oppression of the patriarchy etc
my "see neimoller" comment above was reference to this, we have come so far down this bullshit road that when this person had their career terminated with malice, there was no fucker left to take a step forward and stand by her.
there were plenty left, but they are silent.
"Makes a change from team penises shafting women. Seriously though single, individual cases are no reason to throw out the baby with the bathwater. | |||
" Y'see, I know this happens, but it doesn't happen often. " On the contrary, dad's getting shafted in secret family courts, false allegations of sexual misdeeds, team vagina vs traditional women, it happens ALL THE FUCKING TIME, you only have to go out and look for it. See what I said about "the rest remained silent" Look at this thread, the silence from the men is absolutely thunderous. You should be DEEPLY concerned by this. Sadly, as I said, for women it is too late, the few who got turned on to what is going on and try to make amends are seen by the men as no more than people who saw the storm coming and changed sides. | |||
" Y'see, I know this happens, but it doesn't happen often. On the contrary, dad's getting shafted in secret family courts, false allegations of sexual misdeeds, team vagina vs traditional women, it happens ALL THE FUCKING TIME, you only have to go out and look for it. See what I said about "the rest remained silent" Look at this thread, the silence from the men is absolutely thunderous. You should be DEEPLY concerned by this. Sadly, as I said, for women it is too late, the few who got turned on to what is going on and try to make amends are seen by the men as no more than people who saw the storm coming and changed sides." There's been no silence from men, I think most tutted at the rather melodramatic responses from some individuals and felt such people didn't really warrant a response. | |||
" Y'see, I know this happens, but it doesn't happen often. On the contrary, dad's getting shafted in secret family courts, false allegations of sexual misdeeds, team vagina vs traditional women, it happens ALL THE FUCKING TIME, you only have to go out and look for it." I somehow suspect that the majority of families with single mothers is caused by the man doing one, not by the man getting shafted by the courts. Yes, all the things you state happen. You only have to read Take a Break to find that out. It doesn't mean that most women approve though. | |||
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"What do think Emily Pankhurst would make of a table of women slagging men off on loose women, or the excellent female role models on 'the valleys' and 'Geordie shore'?. " What do you think of men who call women 'bitches' or the delightful men on Made in Chelsea? Gender does not equal behaviour. That's down to the specific individual. | |||
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" Sadly, so do I. It is depressing. Get used to it, it's going to get a *lot* worse for women over the next decade or three... .. at the moment there are some metrosexuals and pussy beggars playing lip service to it all whenever women are in earshot in the hope of getting some pussy, but the backlash is starting. Every day the secret family court system creates actual misogynists, and who can blame them for feeling that way, every day the "all men are rapists and paedos" hystera makes more every time a guy decides to eat his sandwiches in the park. Every day the rise of radical muslim beliefs as a proportion of society (turn around three times saying I divorce thee) brings more of the same You want real irony? You want to know where the MOST misogynistic men can be found? The yoof of today, brought up by single mothers with nary a father figure in sight, these are the guys your precious daughters are going to have to contend with. Y'all think *I* am a misogynistic dinosaur, you want to wake up and smell the coffee, I'm the conservative who is frankly shocked by the callousness of the younger generation of males. Y'all might also be surprised, like all the "safe sex only" women who are more than happy to bounce up and down on my cock bareback, there is also no shortage of women who want a traditional real man who hasn't got any time for all the treehugging feminist bullshit" Treehugging feminist..wtf does that mean..and what is your definition of a 'traditional real man'? | |||
"I'm sad that my desire to be treated as an equal and as a human being is interpreted as hatred of men, rather than a request to be respected. " You are respected. Unfortunately there are aggressive vocal people who believe they can shout down the right of others to receive the fairness they get. They are vexations in life, nothing more. | |||
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"Oh, and I'm just popping out into the garden to go hug a tree. A real, traditional tree." As a vagina, can I ask you to hug one for me too please? | |||
"Oh, and I'm just popping out into the garden to go hug a tree. A real, traditional tree. As a vagina, can I ask you to hug one for me too please?" Absolutely - we don't want two vaginas out there hugging a tree - we might be mistaken for 'team vagina'. | |||
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"The guy was an ass girls...in my opinion of course....leave the trees be the birds are settling here. " Aw I love a nice ass! They are so sweet, trotting along on the beach with those big, sad eyes. | |||
"The guy was an ass girls...in my opinion of course....leave the trees be the birds are settling here. Aw I love a nice ass! They are so sweet, trotting along on the beach with those big, sad eyes. " paranoid I've been seen by you on the beach.....  or are you being sarcastic  | |||
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"What do think Emily Pankhurst would make of a table of women slagging men off on loose women, or the excellent female role models on 'the valleys' and 'Geordie shore'?. What do you think of men who call women 'bitches' or the delightful men on Made in Chelsea? Gender does not equal behaviour. That's down to the specific individual." I disagree, I am more of a Traditional woman- I have been verbally abused by other women because of it- its fashionable to be a feminist. | |||
"What do think Emily Pankhurst would make of a table of women slagging men off on loose women, or the excellent female role models on 'the valleys' and 'Geordie shore'?. What do you think of men who call women 'bitches' or the delightful men on Made in Chelsea? Gender does not equal behaviour. That's down to the specific individual.I disagree, I am more of a Traditional woman- I have been verbally abused by other women because of it- its fashionable to be a feminist." I am not a feminist to be fashionable. I've been a self-declared feminist since the age of 17 or 18. | |||
"The guy was an ass girls...in my opinion of course....leave the trees be the birds are settling here. Aw I love a nice ass! They are so sweet, trotting along on the beach with those big, sad eyes.
paranoid I've been seen by you on the beach..... or are you being sarcastic "Were you wearing a saddle and carrying small children on your back? | |||
"What do think Emily Pankhurst would make of a table of women slagging men off on loose women, or the excellent female role models on 'the valleys' and 'Geordie shore'?. What do you think of men who call women 'bitches' or the delightful men on Made in Chelsea? Gender does not equal behaviour. That's down to the specific individual.I disagree, I am more of a Traditional woman- I have been verbally abused by other women because of it- its fashionable to be a feminist. I am not a feminist to be fashionable. I've been a self-declared feminist since the age of 17 or 18." I didn't specify who, I wouldn't expect many feminists to know if they are doing it cause they are being fashionable, but as a woman I am looked down upon by others who are feminists because of my views. Its a good thread, I have learnt a lot, but disagree with most die hard feminist views. | |||
"What do think Emily Pankhurst would make of a table of women slagging men off on loose women, or the excellent female role models on 'the valleys' and 'Geordie shore'?. What do you think of men who call women 'bitches' or the delightful men on Made in Chelsea? Gender does not equal behaviour. That's down to the specific individual.I disagree, I am more of a Traditional woman- I have been verbally abused by other women because of it- its fashionable to be a feminist. I am not a feminist to be fashionable. I've been a self-declared feminist since the age of 17 or 18.I didn't specify who, I wouldn't expect many feminists to know if they are doing it cause they are being fashionable, but as a woman I am looked down upon by others who are feminists because of my views. Its a good thread, I have learnt a lot, but disagree with most die hard feminist views. "What would you consider a 'die hard' feminist? | |||
"What do think Emily Pankhurst would make of a table of women slagging men off on loose women, or the excellent female role models on 'the valleys' and 'Geordie shore'?. What do you think of men who call women 'bitches' or the delightful men on Made in Chelsea? Gender does not equal behaviour. That's down to the specific individual.I disagree, I am more of a Traditional woman- I have been verbally abused by other women because of it- its fashionable to be a feminist. I am not a feminist to be fashionable. I've been a self-declared feminist since the age of 17 or 18.I didn't specify who, I wouldn't expect many feminists to know if they are doing it cause they are being fashionable, but as a woman I am looked down upon by others who are feminists because of my views. Its a good thread, I have learnt a lot, but disagree with most die hard feminist views.
What would you consider a 'die hard' feminist?"Someone who bangs on and on about "the cause" no matter what the conversation happens to be about they always manage to wangle some feminists "issue". | |||
"What do think Emily Pankhurst would make of a table of women slagging men off on loose women, or the excellent female role models on 'the valleys' and 'Geordie shore'?. What do you think of men who call women 'bitches' or the delightful men on Made in Chelsea? Gender does not equal behaviour. That's down to the specific individual.I disagree, I am more of a Traditional woman- I have been verbally abused by other women because of it- its fashionable to be a feminist. I am not a feminist to be fashionable. I've been a self-declared feminist since the age of 17 or 18.I didn't specify who, I wouldn't expect many feminists to know if they are doing it cause they are being fashionable, but as a woman I am looked down upon by others who are feminists because of my views. Its a good thread, I have learnt a lot, but disagree with most die hard feminist views.
What would you consider a 'die hard' feminist?Someone who bangs on and on about "the cause" no matter what the conversation happens to be about they always manage to wangle some feminists "issue". "Have to say I've not met any of those since I left Uni in 1993. | |||
"What do think Emily Pankhurst would make of a table of women slagging men off on loose women, or the excellent female role models on 'the valleys' and 'Geordie shore'?. What do you think of men who call women 'bitches' or the delightful men on Made in Chelsea? Gender does not equal behaviour. That's down to the specific individual.I disagree, I am more of a Traditional woman- I have been verbally abused by other women because of it- its fashionable to be a feminist. I am not a feminist to be fashionable. I've been a self-declared feminist since the age of 17 or 18.I didn't specify who, I wouldn't expect many feminists to know if they are doing it cause they are being fashionable, but as a woman I am looked down upon by others who are feminists because of my views. Its a good thread, I have learnt a lot, but disagree with most die hard feminist views.
What would you consider a 'die hard' feminist?Someone who bangs on and on about "the cause" no matter what the conversation happens to be about they always manage to wangle some feminists "issue".
Have to say I've not met any of those since I left Uni in 1993."They are in abundance unfortunately lol.... | |||
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"What do think Emily Pankhurst would make of a table of women slagging men off on loose women, or the excellent female role models on 'the valleys' and 'Geordie shore'?. What do you think of men who call women 'bitches' or the delightful men on Made in Chelsea? Gender does not equal behaviour. That's down to the specific individual.I disagree, I am more of a Traditional woman- I have been verbally abused by other women because of it- its fashionable to be a feminist. I am not a feminist to be fashionable. I've been a self-declared feminist since the age of 17 or 18.I didn't specify who, I wouldn't expect many feminists to know if they are doing it cause they are being fashionable, but as a woman I am looked down upon by others who are feminists because of my views. Its a good thread, I have learnt a lot, but disagree with most die hard feminist views.
What would you consider a 'die hard' feminist?Someone who bangs on and on about "the cause" no matter what the conversation happens to be about they always manage to wangle some feminists "issue".
Have to say I've not met any of those since I left Uni in 1993.They are in abundance unfortunately lol...."Not in my experience. I find the opposite - women who shy away from the dreaded F word as if it were the plague. | |||
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"What do think Emily Pankhurst would make of a table of women slagging men off on loose women, or the excellent female role models on 'the valleys' and 'Geordie shore'?. What do you think of men who call women 'bitches' or the delightful men on Made in Chelsea? Gender does not equal behaviour. That's down to the specific individual.I disagree, I am more of a Traditional woman- I have been verbally abused by other women because of it- its fashionable to be a feminist. I am not a feminist to be fashionable. I've been a self-declared feminist since the age of 17 or 18.I didn't specify who, I wouldn't expect many feminists to know if they are doing it cause they are being fashionable, but as a woman I am looked down upon by others who are feminists because of my views. Its a good thread, I have learnt a lot, but disagree with most die hard feminist views.
What would you consider a 'die hard' feminist?Someone who bangs on and on about "the cause" no matter what the conversation happens to be about they always manage to wangle some feminists "issue".
Have to say I've not met any of those since I left Uni in 1993.They are in abundance unfortunately lol....
Not in my experience. I find the opposite - women who shy away from the dreaded F word as if it were the plague."So would you like total equality? | |||
"its made men and women both wage slaves .cos before a lot of the equal pay legislation , a man could get paid a wage to keep a family ... now both have to work to keep the standard of living ... two wages calculate mortgages therefore the house prices all rose to take advantage of this " I think it is rather more complex than that - and that cannot be a reason for not allowing equality. | |||
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" Y'see, I know this happens, but it doesn't happen often. On the contrary, dad's getting shafted in secret family courts, false allegations of sexual misdeeds, team vagina vs traditional women, it happens ALL THE FUCKING TIME, you only have to go out and look for it. See what I said about "the rest remained silent" Look at this thread, the silence from the men is absolutely thunderous. You should be DEEPLY concerned by this. Sadly, as I said, for women it is too late, the few who got turned on to what is going on and try to make amends are seen by the men as no more than people who saw the storm coming and changed sides." nail on the head re family courts where being a bloke means you are already doomed. Be nice if the sisterhood fought for equality there | |||
"its made men and women both wage slaves .cos before a lot of the equal pay legislation , a man could get paid a wage to keep a family ... now both have to work to keep the standard of living ... two wages calculate mortgages therefore the house prices all rose to take advantage of this I think it is rather more complex than that - and that cannot be a reason for not allowing equality." true .. i am not against equality ... its just it has forced women out to work .. i dont want you all barefoot pregnant stuck at home .just commenting on the effect equality has had | |||
"its made men and women both wage slaves .cos before a lot of the equal pay legislation , a man could get paid a wage to keep a family ... now both have to work to keep the standard of living ... two wages calculate mortgages therefore the house prices all rose to take advantage of this I think it is rather more complex than that - and that cannot be a reason for not allowing equality. true .. i am not against equality ... its just it has forced women out to work .. i dont want you all barefoot pregnant stuck at home .just commenting on the effect equality has had " This is as fallacious as most of what I've read above. Capitalism makes wage slaves and cost indexes regardless of gender. Painting pre feminist periods as halcyon days of plenty with daddy walking home to a smiling , well fed, rosy cheeked family of home owners only works on those that don't take an historical interest in sociological changes in the uk or wider arena. For my benefit if no one elses can anyone here describe or define through behaviours or otherwise a 'traditional male' a 'real man' a 'traditional female' ? Which century or even culture are people referring to when they speak of 'tradition' ? I want to make the point again that women have always worked. There has never been a period in history when women haven't worked. They may have become visible after WW1 but that period is often misinterpreted. It was more difficult to ignore women but women have always worked outside of the home. | |||
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"A WPC .... bet that stung. No one is arrested for trying to visit their child. I was going to be arrested. Got it? That simple wpc sided with mum. Gender equality my arse Your posts in this thread have absolutely nothing to do with equality or feminism - you clearly hate Women full stop. From the comments you've made I suspect because of one failed relationship. Balanced view? *Her* " I have tried, pretty much, to ignore the misogynists. No point engaging them in any kind of discussion because that is not what they are posting for. I expected it - actually, I expected a lot more so am pleasantly surprised. | |||
" Y'see, I know this happens, but it doesn't happen often. On the contrary, dad's getting shafted in secret family courts, false allegations of sexual misdeeds, team vagina vs traditional women, it happens ALL THE FUCKING TIME, you only have to go out and look for it. See what I said about "the rest remained silent" Look at this thread, the silence from the men is absolutely thunderous. You should be DEEPLY concerned by this. Sadly, as I said, for women it is too late, the few who got turned on to what is going on and try to make amends are seen by the men as no more than people who saw the storm coming and changed sides. There's been no silence from men, I think most tutted at the rather melodramatic responses from some individuals and felt such people didn't really warrant a response. " this.. some of the angst driven i was fucked over by women over my kids etc is not the fault of feminism, equality or whatever.. | |||
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"Hairy fannies? " No that's natural. Just the freedom to own their own fannies , decide what it looks like and give or with hold permission to those that want to use it. | |||
"Hairy fannies? No that's natural. Just the freedom to own their own fannies , decide what it looks like and give or with hold permission to those that want to use it." I've grown my so long I've had it knitted into a doily! | |||
"Hairy fannies? No that's natural. Just the freedom to own their own fannies , decide what it looks like and give or with hold permission to those that want to use it. I've grown my so long I've had it knitted into a doily! "Haha can I see | |||
