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Charlotte Dujardin
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By *rrolloutMan 17 weeks ago
Newcastle-under-Lyme |
The timing of the Dujardin story is odd. The incident happened four years ago, apparently. Methinks ze Germans haff been stirring ze Scheisse....
Of course horses are mistreated. They'd prefer not to run miles and jump fences carrying a human and they don't want to prance around a ring either, if they weren't coerced into doing so one way or another.
Just another example of the kind of human arrogance that assumes that animals and the environment are on Earth for us to exploit however we like. |
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Her actions were clearly not out of character but out of temper,I would be surprised if this behaviour was a one off. She is just a rider, it is the horse that does all the work. She absolutely should return the medals before she is stripped of them. |
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We were talking about this this morning. How do people think horses are trained in dressage? Why do jockeys carry whips even if they don't use them if the horse isn't wary of them? 'Encouragement' in one way or another is required and it would be naive to think it's always in the form of the promise of a sugar lump and a nose tickle |
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No! She won those fairly
However this is very upsetting watching it! I’m an absolute massive fan of her ever since her younger rider days and to see this is awful
BUT … why did it take so long?? It was recorded 4 years ago so why did the rider not act sooner and why did the person recording it not act sooner
Not condoning what she did in the slightest but saying you were scared of the backlash is a rubbish excuse!
There is going to be a massive fallout from this |
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"How do you think the horse does the work?? If you honestly think the horse does all those dressage moves without anything from a rider "
I don't think people realise the skill involved from rider and horse. Those tiny moves and signals aren't obvious |
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Any sport involving animals, involves cruelty on the animal. The treatment some animals receive is absolutely horrible. As humans, why do we believe that we can exploit animals, subject them to punishment, to further our enjoyment?
Curious why this is only coming out now, but glad that it will serve to unmask the cruelty and disrespect behind the coiffure of sophisticated sporting elegance. |
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The absoulte bang of this! Why did it take so long? Why didnt they speak up earlier?
They knew they would take out the big hitter of the team for sure with this but they have also damaged her career immensely with this
Again not condoning what happened but this isnt a one off and the Dutch have alot to be thinking about considering everything around Totailas they arent exactly clean themselves |
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perhaps she should consider handing back any medals won after the date of the incident in question. to be involved as a spokesperson in horse welfare on the one hand while privately abusing animals on the other isn't the best optic to be fair. |
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By (user no longer on site) 17 weeks ago
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She should be banned sin die,stripped of medals and not allowed near a horse.
Why don't we whip her as she's riding round.
She's got previous for this ,and as for lack of judgement etc and all the rest of the, I've been caught so I better fes up excuses just bullshit,shes a bully and an absolute disgrace.
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By *ayRyuMan 17 weeks ago
Harrogate |
While I don't condone it in anyway there's no need to hand medals back.
The next person in line will of done the exact same and so on.
So either there are no medals at all in the discipline or just change things moving forward! |
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By (user no longer on site) 17 weeks ago
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"While I don't condone it in anyway there's no need to hand medals back.
The next person in line will of done the exact same and so on.
So either there are no medals at all in the discipline or just change things moving forward!"
So everyone in dressage beats their horse?
Pretty wide-ranging condemnation of all riders. |
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By *abioMan 17 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
I don’t have any defence of what she did… she deserves the ban that she got!
I do wonder about the whistleblowers motives though….. I get the timing is to keep her out of the Olympics, but this person has also had this evidence for years, so I don’t think it has anything to do with animal welfare
How many other animals may have been harmed during the time the whistleblower had the videos!
This feels much more like personal grievance |
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"I don’t have any defence of what she did… she deserves the ban that she got!
I do wonder about the whistleblowers motives though….. I get the timing is to keep her out of the Olympics, but this person has also had this evidence for years, so I don’t think it has anything to do with animal welfare
How many other animals may have been harmed during the time the whistleblower had the videos!
This feels much more like personal grievance "
Whistle blower claims they are doing it to save dressage and acted after a Danish member was sent home. |
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I found this video.
It's there for all. Easy to find.
The person making the video is laughing and seems perfectly happy with the training.
The rider also does not complain about the treatment of the horse.
Aren't they complicit ? The film maker and the rider?
Also at the end...... She is explaining the training to someone ( I can't make all of it out ) she says ..... ' ..........stops them moving out sideways. Stops them blocking the way..
https://news.sky.com/story/video-shows-charlotte-dujardin-whipping-horse-in-training-session-13184153 |
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"I found this video.
It's there for all. Easy to find.
The person making the video is laughing and seems perfectly happy with the training.
The rider also does not complain about the treatment of the horse.
Aren't they complicit ? The film maker and the rider?
Also at the end...... She is explaining the training to someone ( I can't make all of it out ) she says ..... ' ..........stops them moving out sideways. Stops them blocking the way..
https://news.sky.com/story/video-shows-charlotte-dujardin-whipping-horse-in-training-session-13184153"
The claim is that the rider was 19 at the time. Young, naïve and only upon reflection, did they understand it was wrong, plus people within the equestrian world discouraged reporting sooner.
I'm a lifelong horse lover and rider. I specifically bid and got tickets for the dressage at London 2012 so I could see the likes of her riding. I met Mary King on the eventing course.
I'm absolutely disgusted and appalled by her behaviour and actually I do think she should be stripped of medals from any period where there is evidence of abuse of horses. |
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By * F 2018Couple 17 weeks ago
shropshire |
"How do you think the horse does the work?? If you honestly think the horse does all those dressage moves without anything from a rider "
What a load of bs there's no need to use brutal barbaric whipping like that and yes she should be accountable
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"How do you think the horse does the work?? If you honestly think the horse does all those dressage moves without anything from a rider
What a load of bs there's no need to use brutal barbaric whipping like that and yes she should be accountable
"
That was in response to someone saying the horse does all the work, not condoning her actions. |
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Not at all, loads of other trainers, jockeys, other equestrian sport riders have dealt far worse, with short crops to their horse and not had to relinquish any trophy, cash won, medals etc etc. Overuse of a whip is why the 10 whip rule was brought in to horse racing.
She chose a inappropriate way to train an animal in her care, she's not the first and definitely won't be the last |
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Some interesting points raised but one that I feel you’ve all missed is that her legacy as a role model has been totally destroyed and with it so has the reputation of the sport which (rightly or wrongly) will now have people scrutinising everything.
The video isn’t a great watch, and yes the timing will be questioned, but one thing for sure, I don’t see the public welcoming her back into competitive sport going forward. |
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"Some interesting points raised but one that I feel you’ve all missed is that her legacy as a role model has been totally destroyed and with it so has the reputation of the sport which (rightly or wrongly) will now have people scrutinising everything.
The video isn’t a great watch, and yes the timing will be questioned, but one thing for sure, I don’t see the public welcoming her back into competitive sport going forward. "
I don't think she should be welcomed back in to the sport
I think it's right that the sport should be subject to scrutiny if it isn't already. |
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"Some interesting points raised but one that I feel you’ve all missed is that her legacy as a role model has been totally destroyed and with it so has the reputation of the sport which (rightly or wrongly) will now have people scrutinising everything.
The video isn’t a great watch, and yes the timing will be questioned, but one thing for sure, I don’t see the public welcoming her back into competitive sport going forward. "
Yes they will. David McPherson did it worse to a horse in 2012 and was fined by the BSJA, He is to this day classed as a Olympic legend. People are fickle and forget quickly, look at Gordon Elliots pic, that was forgotten really quickly by the public |
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I find a lot of people's objections ...... not so much hypocritical ..... but a bit late in the day.
I find it difficult to fathom that people think animals just do things because they are asked nicely.
The elephants in India that trample people generally do it after a life time of going insane at their unnatural lives..
People do nothing - as the saying goes. |
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As I’ve said I don’t condone anything and I’m extremely devastated been a massive massive fan of her BUT
The timing does not sit right! Why wait so long??
The person recording is laughing and are either A) someone on Charlottes team who has recently been let go and leaked this OR B) someone from the riders team and held onto this
If they are connected to the rider why not speak up? Why not say something earlier! Same for the rider if you were uncomfortable why not stop
It’s said it’s come from the Dutch side of things which bangs of taking out the biggest threat and has shaken the GB team!
The whole thing is just absolutely bonkers!! It’s horrible to witness |
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By *glyBettyTV/TS 17 weeks ago
About 3 feet away from the fence |
Every single dressage gold medalist in history should give their medals back, mostly because this nonsense should never even be in the Olympics in the first place.
Equestrian is not a real sport imo. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 17 weeks ago
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"Every single dressage gold medalist in history should give their medals back, mostly because this nonsense should never even be in the Olympics in the first place.
Equestrian is not a real sport imo."
Are F1, Moto GP, darts and snooker sports? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 17 weeks ago
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"I find a lot of people's objections ...... not so much hypocritical ..... but a bit late in the day.
I find it difficult to fathom that people think animals just do things because they are asked nicely.
The elephants in India that trample people generally do it after a life time of going insane at their unnatural lives..
People do nothing - as the saying goes. "
Never too late to highlight unacceptable behaviour. That said the source and timing of the information seems to be conspiratorial and designed to be disruptive. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 17 weeks ago
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"its it strange that when it involves a animal being mistreated everyone jumps to condemn it and show more emotion than if the treatment was given to a human.
"
I think you will find most sane folk would call out inhumane treatment in all its forms. |
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I'd guess all dressage horses get something similar, how else to get them to behave unnaturally? Anyway, the timing, days ahead of the Olympics tells me this is more about gamesmanship than animal welfare. |
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"its it strange that when it involves a animal being mistreated everyone jumps to condemn it and show more emotion than if the treatment was given to a human.
"
That's not true. People get outraged about the mistreatment of other people and show a lot of heated emotion about it. |
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"
That's not true. People get outraged about the mistreatment of other people and show a lot of heated emotion about it."
Which is why last night hundreds of people gathered outside Manchester Police Station to protest about a man at the airport having his face kicked and head stamped on whilst lying on the floor |
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By *CBoyTV/TS 17 weeks ago
Tonypandy |
"Every single dressage gold medalist in history should give their medals back, mostly because this nonsense should never even be in the Olympics in the first place.
Equestrian is not a real sport imo."
Neither is breakdancing. Adding stupid stuff like that devalues the whole of the Games and takes the piss out of real athletes who have spend years training . |
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"
Equestrian is not a real sport imo.
Neither is breakdancing. Adding stupid stuff like that devalues the whole of the Games and takes the piss out of real athletes who have spend years training ."
What do you think of Gymnastic Floor Routines compared to break dancing ? |
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By *lan157Man 17 weeks ago
a village near Haywards Heath in East Sussex |
"Every single dressage gold medalist in history should give their medals back, mostly because this nonsense should never even be in the Olympics in the first place.
Equestrian is not a real sport imo.
Neither is breakdancing. Adding stupid stuff like that devalues the whole of the Games and takes the piss out of real athletes who have spend years training ."
I will put myself forward for Olympic wallpaper hanging when that is included . |
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"A hundred years after it it is finally banned people will look back and say ‘what? A horse dancing to music was an Olympic sport and everyone was fine with that?’"
Yep. As I said early on it's not done by promising sugar lumps and nose rubs. |
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By (user no longer on site) 17 weeks ago
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"The timing of the Dujardin story is odd. The incident happened four years ago, apparently. Methinks ze Germans haff been stirring ze Scheisse....
Of course horses are mistreated. They'd prefer not to run miles and jump fences carrying a human and they don't want to prance around a ring either, if they weren't coerced into doing so one way or another.
Just another example of the kind of human arrogance that assumes that animals and the environment are on Earth for us to exploit however we like."
This exactly glad it's not just me with this mindset |
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"The timing of the Dujardin story is odd. The incident happened four years ago, apparently. Methinks ze Germans haff been stirring ze Scheisse....
Of course horses are mistreated. They'd prefer not to run miles and jump fences carrying a human and they don't want to prance around a ring either, if they weren't coerced into doing so one way or another.
Just another example of the kind of human arrogance that assumes that animals and the environment are on Earth for us to exploit however we like."
Erm… but the bible tells us that the animals and the environment are all on the earth for humans to exploit!
Mind it also says weird things about the perfectly normal activity of a man dressing up and pretending to be a woman and having sex with other men!
So I think it is maybe all bollocks  |
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But getting back to the horse whipper. I like the way she came out with some statement about it being “out of character” and how she doesn’t normally treat her horses this way , like she didn’t know what suddenly came over her!
What a load of crap… like she didn’t just stumble onto that huge long whip in her training area and through a momentary lapse of reason start thrashing the shit out of that horse!  |
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"Every single dressage gold medalist in history should give their medals back, mostly because this nonsense should never even be in the Olympics in the first place.
Equestrian is not a real sport imo."
Equestrianism is definitely a sport. A rider needs to make use of muscle groups most people don't know they have. To ride at the level required to compete internationally requires incredible fitness and muscle power in the lower body especially.
I must reiterate that I am absolutely disgusted by what I've seen of the Charlotte Dujardin video and had previously held her in high esteem. It's disgraceful and cannot be tolerated.
There is absolutely no need to strike a horse at all, for any reason. |
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By *glyBettyTV/TS 17 weeks ago
About 3 feet away from the fence |
"Every single dressage gold medalist in history should give their medals back, mostly because this nonsense should never even be in the Olympics in the first place.
Equestrian is not a real sport imo.
Are F1, Moto GP, darts and snooker sports?"
Darts and snooker are games, like snakes & ladders.
Any activity where the unassisted human body is not the main instrument of kinetic motion, shouldn't be in the Olympics in my opinion....which would include Motorsport - hence why it isn't.
Equestrian falls in a similar category. The horse is doing most of the work. |
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"Every single dressage gold medalist in history should give their medals back, mostly because this nonsense should never even be in the Olympics in the first place.
Equestrian is not a real sport imo.
Are F1, Moto GP, darts and snooker sports?
Darts and snooker are games, like snakes & ladders.
Any activity where the unassisted human body is not the main instrument of kinetic motion, shouldn't be in the Olympics in my opinion....which would include Motorsport - hence why it isn't.
Equestrian falls in a similar category. The horse is doing most of the work."
Have you ever ridden a horse? |
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By *lan157Man 17 weeks ago
a village near Haywards Heath in East Sussex |
"Every single dressage gold medalist in history should give their medals back, mostly because this nonsense should never even be in the Olympics in the first place.
Equestrian is not a real sport imo.
Are F1, Moto GP, darts and snooker sports?
Darts and snooker are games, like snakes & ladders.
Any activity where the unassisted human body is not the main instrument of kinetic motion, shouldn't be in the Olympics in my opinion....which would include Motorsport - hence why it isn't.
Equestrian falls in a similar category. The horse is doing most of the work.
Have you ever ridden a horse?"
Thinking in scientific terms I don't think any person could pull a plough around a one acre field in a day . |
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By *glyBettyTV/TS 17 weeks ago
About 3 feet away from the fence |
"Every single dressage gold medalist in history should give their medals back, mostly because this nonsense should never even be in the Olympics in the first place.
Equestrian is not a real sport imo.
Equestrianism is definitely a sport. A rider needs to make use of muscle groups most people don't know they have. To ride at the level required to compete internationally requires incredible fitness and muscle power in the lower body especially.
I must reiterate that I am absolutely disgusted by what I've seen of the Charlotte Dujardin video and had previously held her in high esteem. It's disgraceful and cannot be tolerated.
There is absolutely no need to strike a horse at all, for any reason. "
I'm not sure I'm convinced that dressage riders are elite level athletes, even within their field.
To even be able to compete at all, you would need to be wealthy enough to own horses, plus own a stable & a large amount of land in order to practice in your own time. It seems that anyone with the resources alone would automatically catapult themselves into contention, just because the amount of potential competitors are so few.
Take this Dujardin woman, she is 39 (Thirty nine) years old & apparently the best the activity has to offer.
Most athletes in other sports at 39 are either retired, or about to retire.
In the past, people like Princess Anne have made the Equestrian Olympic squad, and Zara Tindall won a silver medal in 2012, is still competing now & she's older than me  |
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"Have you ever ridden a horse?
No, but neither has 90% of the population.
I have played actual sports for many years, however. "
I've been riding since I was a child, to a decent standard, including cross country, which is pretty challenging. I acquired a left sided disability 7.5 years ago and so I have global weakness down my left hip, leg, foot, ankle etc. When I got back on a horse, I had to essentially relearn everything. My balance in the saddle is terrible compared to prior and I cannot use the leg aids I need almost at all on the left. There is absolutely no way on Earth I could ride cross country anymore. Not a chance. I'd not have the muscle and seat strength and would end up on the floor. My riding is now restricted to plodding and only trotting/cantering if I have a good day.
Prior to my disability, I also played a lot of sports in addition to riding. Football, rounders, tennis, hockey, I competed at county level in discus and shot putt. Olympic weightlifting also. Then as a disabled person, I play wheelchair sports and continue to plod along on large, comfy horses.
I know what I'm talking about and if you think any form of horse riding at anything like a high level just involves someone sitting doing nothing and no physical ability, then you have no idea what you're talking about. If it's so easy, please have a go on horseback. Try a canter (collected or otherwise) and see what you need to do to stay onboard.
The fact Princess Anne and Zara Tindall have competed (NOT in dressage!) is irrelevant. They had to be fit to do that too. Anne was a show jumper and Zara was a 3 day eventer (which includes dressage as one component). Yes, international level equestrian sport is expensive, few riders own the horses they compete on. Now-disgraced Charlotte Dujardin did not own Vallegro, who she won medals with. Dujardin actually comes from very modest means. Her achievements are now largely irrelevant and her legacy completely tarnished and it makes me sad that someone who should have been a great role model behaves as she clearly has. |
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As much as I have enjoyed horse riding in my earlier life I do wonder if it is time to take them out of the Olympics. There are no other sports in which another animal is used like this.
I watched the video in granny's link above and there is no way that is not a tactic commonly used by her. Using a long whip the way she did at such close quarters is abuse, end of.
I don't think she should be stripped of previous medals but I do think she should be banned from working in the industry from now on.
Evie |
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"As much as I have enjoyed horse riding in my earlier life I do wonder if it is time to take them out of the Olympics. There are no other sports in which another animal is used like this.
I watched the video in granny's link above and there is no way that is not a tactic commonly used by her. Using a long whip the way she did at such close quarters is abuse, end of.
I don't think she should be stripped of previous medals but I do think she should be banned from working in the industry from now on.
Evie "
I agree with the vast majority, especially that the video in no way can show a one off. I agree she should be banned too, as should anyone else that can be identified as complicit in such behaviour.
Taking equestrian sports out of the Olympics however is unlikely to change much, unfortunately. There's top level competition with huge competitiveness without the Olympics. |
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"i think that the "timing" and method of the release of this video is something that stinks
Why?
Also why have you put the word timing in speech marks?"
Because it's at least 2.5 years old and we're just going into the Olympics perhaps?
No clue on the speech marks though  |
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"She should be tied over a hay bale and feel a few strokes of the whip on her arse. That was downright wicked on that horse."
On a horse it's downright wicked but on her on here it would be the most-viewed video and just another day in the life of Fabs.
C'est la vie. |
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"After the release of the video today showing her treatment of a horse should she hand back her Olympic Medals?"
Yes. Or more specifically, she should be stripped of them and arrested for abusing an animal. I rode horses when I was younger, and have dated a few female horse riders. There was simply no excuse for her behaviour. |
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"i think that the "timing" and method of the release of this video is something that stinks
Why?
Also why have you put the word timing in speech marks?
Because it's at least 2.5 years old and we're just going into the Olympics perhaps?
No clue on the speech marks though "
It’s news now, it wasn’t 2.5 years ago. |
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"i think that the "timing" and method of the release of this video is something that stinks
Why?
Also why have you put the word timing in speech marks?
Because it's at least 2.5 years old and we're just going into the Olympics perhaps?
No clue on the speech marks though
It’s news now, it wasn’t 2.5 years ago."
Why not? She was still a well known person back then. She has been allowed to abuse many more horses since this video was taken because someone decided to sit on it until am olympic year.
It's a calculated release designed to cause disruption and ruin team GB's reputation heading into a major competition. This isn't about concern for the horses welfare like it should be.
Evie. |
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"i think that the "timing" and method of the release of this video is something that stinks
Why?
Also why have you put the word timing in speech marks?
Because it's at least 2.5 years old and we're just going into the Olympics perhaps?
No clue on the speech marks though
It’s news now, it wasn’t 2.5 years ago.
Why not? She was still a well known person back then. She has been allowed to abuse many more horses since this video was taken because someone decided to sit on it until am olympic year.
It's a calculated release designed to cause disruption and ruin team GB's reputation heading into a major competition. This isn't about concern for the horses welfare like it should be.
Evie. "
Never heard of her before she became famous for beating the shit out of her horses. Did she do the horse dancing?
I doubt it was calculated to ruin Team GB’s reputation, just hers, and she deserves it. |
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"i think that the "timing" and method of the release of this video is something that stinks
Why?
Also why have you put the word timing in speech marks?
Because it's at least 2.5 years old and we're just going into the Olympics perhaps?
No clue on the speech marks though
It’s news now, it wasn’t 2.5 years ago.
Why not? She was still a well known person back then. She has been allowed to abuse many more horses since this video was taken because someone decided to sit on it until am olympic year.
It's a calculated release designed to cause disruption and ruin team GB's reputation heading into a major competition. This isn't about concern for the horses welfare like it should be.
Evie.
Never heard of her before she became famous for beating the shit out of her horses. Did she do the horse dancing?
I doubt it was calculated to ruin Team GB’s reputation, just hers, and she deserves it."
Charlotte Dujardin has been extremely prominent and famous prior to this event, even beyond the equestrian world. I wouldn't expect to know the names of all sports personalities but it doesn't mean they're not prominent in their field.
I agree that whoever has been sitting on this footage for years would have done better to release it ASAP, not wait, as it may have prevented harm to horses over those years. |
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"i think that the "timing" and method of the release of this video is something that stinks
Why?
Also why have you put the word timing in speech marks?
Because it's at least 2.5 years old and we're just going into the Olympics perhaps?
No clue on the speech marks though
It’s news now, it wasn’t 2.5 years ago.
Why not? She was still a well known person back then. She has been allowed to abuse many more horses since this video was taken because someone decided to sit on it until am olympic year.
It's a calculated release designed to cause disruption and ruin team GB's reputation heading into a major competition. This isn't about concern for the horses welfare like it should be.
Evie.
Never heard of her before she became famous for beating the shit out of her horses. Did she do the horse dancing?
I doubt it was calculated to ruin Team GB’s reputation, just hers, and she deserves it."
She’s literally the face of Dressage! Multiple world records! Up until this pretty much my favorite dressage rider of all time ahead of some of the greats
This literally ruined Team GB! Took out the main player and never mind the effect it will have on her trainer who’s on the team to
As others said the timing is all to suspect |
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"i think that the "timing" and method of the release of this video is something that stinks
Why?
Also why have you put the word timing in speech marks?
Because it's at least 2.5 years old and we're just going into the Olympics perhaps?
No clue on the speech marks though
It’s news now, it wasn’t 2.5 years ago.
Why not? She was still a well known person back then. She has been allowed to abuse many more horses since this video was taken because someone decided to sit on it until am olympic year.
It's a calculated release designed to cause disruption and ruin team GB's reputation heading into a major competition. This isn't about concern for the horses welfare like it should be.
Evie.
Never heard of her before she became famous for beating the shit out of her horses. Did she do the horse dancing?
I doubt it was calculated to ruin Team GB’s reputation, just hers, and she deserves it.
She’s literally the face of Dressage! Multiple world records! Up until this pretty much my favorite dressage rider of all time ahead of some of the greats
This literally ruined Team GB! Took out the main player and never mind the effect it will have on her trainer who’s on the team to
As others said the timing is all to suspect "
Still never heard of her before she got caught whipping the shit out of horses. She got what she deserved. |
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"i think that the "timing" and method of the release of this video is something that stinks
Why?
Also why have you put the word timing in speech marks?
Because it's at least 2.5 years old and we're just going into the Olympics perhaps?
No clue on the speech marks though
It’s news now, it wasn’t 2.5 years ago.
Why not? She was still a well known person back then. She has been allowed to abuse many more horses since this video was taken because someone decided to sit on it until am olympic year.
It's a calculated release designed to cause disruption and ruin team GB's reputation heading into a major competition. This isn't about concern for the horses welfare like it should be.
Evie.
Never heard of her before she became famous for beating the shit out of her horses. Did she do the horse dancing?
I doubt it was calculated to ruin Team GB’s reputation, just hers, and she deserves it.
She’s literally the face of Dressage! Multiple world records! Up until this pretty much my favorite dressage rider of all time ahead of some of the greats
This literally ruined Team GB! Took out the main player and never mind the effect it will have on her trainer who’s on the team to
As others said the timing is all to suspect "
I have previously admitted her but she now deserves everything she gets. People like Carl Hester will be tainted by association too. Do we believe she stables her horses at his yard but he doesn't know what she does? |
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