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Women only places
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Public bathrooms you mean. Or changing rooms / hospital wards / shelters etc ? Some big differences there in usage .
As a trans woman of 15+ years now. I have never had issues with bathrooms / changing rooms once I had all my face surgeries / body changes with hormones over time.
The reality is it’s all about what you look like as a trans person , if you blend / pass ok then it’s a non issue as no one knows .
The media / government never want to highlight this aspect and seem hell bent on using Dave in a dress as the moniker for all trans women being a threat to women .
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If I’m out and about as Rachel, I will always use the ladies loo if I need to. However more recently I do feel sooooo much less confident in doing so, that I’m going to be challenged or called out.
R x |
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I go to a small theatre in Bristol quirky place
They have changed the toilets there so everybody can use what would have been the traditional male female toilets. The urinal are in a row right in front of the main toilets , door opens and it’s a girl coming out from there if I had been outside the toilets I would of been done for flashing myself makes me feel awkward I don’t understand why it can’t be kept to male female are even why females would want to use male toilets there generally disgusting. I feel it’s more awkward for a male so maybe should have more male only spaces if we’re talking toilets |
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so many toilets are unisex now especially in more modern office blocks - its weird and some colleagues would only use the gender specific down the hall - following a male colleague into the unisex toilet block does feel odd!!
think there needs to be more clarification in what they actually mean as women only - |
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"If I’m out and about as Rachel, I will always use the ladies loo if I need to. However more recently I do feel sooooo much less confident in doing so, that I’m going to be challenged or called out.
R x"
I hope ladies loo’s are not an issue going forward
Most gents’s loos are horrible -
Be confident do… then,
You can avoid the awful state of gents toilets
If more unisex toilets are available this may over time change the culture … I hope
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"If I’m out and about as Rachel, I will always use the ladies loo if I need to. However more recently I do feel sooooo much less confident in doing so, that I’m going to be challenged or called out.
R x"
Yeah some of my tv friends are too scared now to use bathrooms full stop in public now women’s are no no now for them men’s is a hard pass as they get agro / verbal abuse more often than not from groups or lads / guys.
I tell them to use the disabled instead if they are desperate. |
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"If I’m out and about as Rachel, I will always use the ladies loo if I need to. However more recently I do feel sooooo much less confident in doing so, that I’m going to be challenged or called out.
R x
Yeah some of my tv friends are too scared now to use bathrooms full stop in public now women’s are no no now for them men’s is a hard pass as they get agro / verbal abuse more often than not from groups or lads / guys.
I tell them to use the disabled instead if they are desperate. "
And when they come out theres someone with a disability wondering wtf you’re doing in the disabled loos - its impossible  |
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"If I’m out and about as Rachel, I will always use the ladies loo if I need to. However more recently I do feel sooooo much less confident in doing so, that I’m going to be challenged or called out.
R x
Yeah some of my tv friends are too scared now to use bathrooms full stop in public now women’s are no no now for them men’s is a hard pass as they get agro / verbal abuse more often than not from groups or lads / guys.
I tell them to use the disabled instead if they are desperate.
And when they come out theres someone with a disability wondering wtf you’re doing in the disabled loos - its impossible "
Remember not all disability is visible |
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"Need more context - what type of women only places?
Eg women only breastfeeding groups etc....
Mostly toilets as this seams to be the issue "
Well, I go into the ladies toilets. I go into a cubicle, do what I need to, then I wash my hands and leave. |
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In reality, there is no problem, but on MSM on certain social media platforms we are portrayed as predators , and a risk to other women and girls. This is complete rubbish.
I was at the grand theatre in Wolves last year. My male friend went into the male toilets. He said there were a group of women in there.
Nothing happened!
If a predator wants to attack a woman, he can do it anywhere, in fact most abuse of women occur at home.
Trans women are being used political tool.
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"I go to a small theatre in Bristol quirky place
They have changed the toilets there so everybody can use what would have been the traditional male female toilets. The urinal are in a row right in front of the main toilets , door opens and it’s a girl coming out from there if I had been outside the toilets I would of been done for flashing myself makes me feel awkward I don’t understand why it can’t be kept to male female are even why females would want to use male toilets there generally disgusting. I feel it’s more awkward for a male so maybe should have more male only spaces if we’re talking toilets "
I don't think you can be done for flashing if you're using a urinal in a unisex lavatory. |
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"I go to a small theatre in Bristol quirky place
They have changed the toilets there so everybody can use what would have been the traditional male female toilets. The urinal are in a row right in front of the main toilets , door opens and it’s a girl coming out from there if I had been outside the toilets I would of been done for flashing myself makes me feel awkward I don’t understand why it can’t be kept to male female are even why females would want to use male toilets there generally disgusting. I feel it’s more awkward for a male so maybe should have more male only spaces if we’re talking toilets
I don't think you can be done for flashing if you're using a urinal in a unisex lavatory. "
Precisely.
But why let facts get in tbe way of hyperbole |
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"Trans women are being used political tool.
"
And when Scotland wanted to relax gender recognition laws - which really should be supported, it was a political trap by the SNP.
They knew Transphobia in Westminster would trigger Article 35 which blocked Scotland's wishes. It was a clever move by the SNP to demonstrate both Transphobia and no real devolvement. |
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"I go to a small theatre in Bristol quirky place
They have changed the toilets there so everybody can use what would have been the traditional male female toilets. The urinal are in a row right in front of the main toilets , door opens and it’s a girl coming out from there if I had been outside the toilets I would of been done for flashing myself makes me feel awkward I don’t understand why it can’t be kept to male female are even why females would want to use male toilets there generally disgusting. I feel it’s more awkward for a male so maybe should have more male only spaces if we’re talking toilets
I don't think you can be done for flashing if you're using a urinal in a unisex lavatory. "
But why should I feel awkward when using the toilet |
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"I go to a small theatre in Bristol quirky place
They have changed the toilets there so everybody can use what would have been the traditional male female toilets. The urinal are in a row right in front of the main toilets , door opens and it’s a girl coming out from there if I had been outside the toilets I would of been done for flashing myself makes me feel awkward I don’t understand why it can’t be kept to male female are even why females would want to use male toilets there generally disgusting. I feel it’s more awkward for a male so maybe should have more male only spaces if we’re talking toilets
I don't think you can be done for flashing if you're using a urinal in a unisex lavatory.
But why should I feel awkward when using the toilet "
Use a cubicle if you don't want anyone to see your dick |
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"
If a predator wants to attack a woman, he can do it anywhere, in fact most abuse of women occur at home.
"
I think this is particularly poignant given the story about Natasha O’Brien being assaulted in the street and Mel B’s campaign raising awareness of domestic abuse both in the news at the moment.
Predators don’t really hang around in toilets looking for people to attack.
I remember growing up in the 90’s and we were all told that lesbians were waiting to attack us in the bogs. It’s just like the same story being rehashed. |
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"I go to a small theatre in Bristol quirky place
They have changed the toilets there so everybody can use what would have been the traditional male female toilets. The urinal are in a row right in front of the main toilets , door opens and it’s a girl coming out from there if I had been outside the toilets I would of been done for flashing myself makes me feel awkward I don’t understand why it can’t be kept to male female are even why females would want to use male toilets there generally disgusting. I feel it’s more awkward for a male so maybe should have more male only spaces if we’re talking toilets
I don't think you can be done for flashing if you're using a urinal in a unisex lavatory.
But why should I feel awkward when using the toilet "
You shouldn't. I think it's often assumed that only women are against unisex toilets. |
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"I go to a small theatre in Bristol quirky place
They have changed the toilets there so everybody can use what would have been the traditional male female toilets. The urinal are in a row right in front of the main toilets , door opens and it’s a girl coming out from there if I had been outside the toilets I would of been done for flashing myself makes me feel awkward I don’t understand why it can’t be kept to male female are even why females would want to use male toilets there generally disgusting. I feel it’s more awkward for a male so maybe should have more male only spaces if we’re talking toilets
I don't think you can be done for flashing if you're using a urinal in a unisex lavatory.
But why should I feel awkward when using the toilet
You shouldn't. I think it's often assumed that only women are against unisex toilets. "
If I were grand poobah I'd either have no urinals or have them in a separate bit (think one of those really big loos with several connected rooms) |
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By (user no longer on site) 21 weeks ago
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I feel conflicted about this. On the one hand I don't personally see much need for single gender spaces. Toilet cubicles and changing cubicles etc. are unisex in many places now.
On the other hand if it's felt there is a need for a women's only space I can understand why some women would take issue with a man being in that space. I don't think the 'trans women are women' claim is all that simple in reality. |
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I think we probably first need to think about a definition of a "man" and a "woman", something even the government does not want to commit to. Should we go by "if it has boobs (moobs don't count, sorry!) it's a woman. Or even further, a woman is a person with a vagina (and that includes "designer vaginas")? Discuss?
Once we agree on the definition, only then we can properly discuss the "women only" places. |
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"I think we probably first need to think about a definition of a "man" and a "woman", something even the government does not want to commit to. Should we go by "if it has boobs (moobs don't count, sorry!) it's a woman. Or even further, a woman is a person with a vagina (and that includes "designer vaginas")? Discuss?
Once we agree on the definition, only then we can properly discuss the "women only" places. "
Agree 100%. Or just ensure they fast track of bypass the decision by leaving the toilet seat down. |
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By *otSoPoshWoman 21 weeks ago
In a ball gown because that's how we roll in N. Devon |
I don't give a monkeys either way. As long as no one can get into or see into my cubicle, do what you like with toilets etc.
I'd like it if every part of toilet area except actually in the cubicles was covered by cameras though. That would make me feel safer. I'd actually quite like it if every public space was covered by cameras. But that's a different thing. |
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By (user no longer on site) 21 weeks ago
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"I would much rather they were in my space and safe then exposed to possible danger "
Even if it means other women/girls consequently feel exposed to possible danger? Which seems to be at the heart of the matter because if not, why the need for such spaces anyway? |
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By *elissa cd OP TV/TS 21 weeks ago
over the rainbow |
"I think we probably first need to think about a definition of a "man" and a "woman", something even the government does not want to commit to. Should we go by "if it has boobs (moobs don't count, sorry!) it's a woman. Or even further, a woman is a person with a vagina (and that includes "designer vaginas")? Discuss?
Once we agree on the definition, only then we can properly discuss the "women only" places. "
Would you class a trans( m2f) women who has had a sex change and taking hormones as a women? |
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"I would much rather they were in my space and safe then exposed to possible danger
Even if it means other women/girls consequently feel exposed to possible danger? Which seems to be at the heart of the matter because if not, why the need for such spaces anyway?"
Actually exposed to danger vs feeling exposed to danger?
Why does having a transwoman in the bathroom cause a perception of danger?
Does it count if they've had their lower surgeries and have a vagina now?
Are slightly masculine women more of a problem for causing panic and fear then? You don't know the contents of someone's pants just from being in the same room as them |
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By (user no longer on site) 21 weeks ago
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"I would much rather they were in my space and safe then exposed to possible danger
Even if it means other women/girls consequently feel exposed to possible danger? Which seems to be at the heart of the matter because if not, why the need for such spaces anyway?
Actually exposed to danger vs feeling exposed to danger?
Why does having a transwoman in the bathroom cause a perception of danger?
Does it count if they've had their lower surgeries and have a vagina now?
Are slightly masculine women more of a problem for causing panic and fear then? You don't know the contents of someone's pants just from being in the same room as them "
Why does having a man in the bathroom cause a perception of danger? |
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By (user no longer on site) 21 weeks ago
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It's clear some people don't feel / aren't safe in the world hence needing a safe space.
And it seems clear they don't feel / aren't safe because of men.
That is why people choose the bear. You only need one bullet for russian roulette to be a risky game, not a full barrel!
And I'm guessing that a trans women feels equally (possibly more) at risk as a cis women.
The balance is creating an approach that manages the small risk to the many (a man may seek to exploit a loop hole) versus a large risk to the few (placing trans women in the natural habit of their predators)
No easy answers. Just one) if you support JKR but got angry at the people selecting bears, have a refekct and two) recognise that trans women are at risk too. |
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"After what been said on the news about place for women only. How do you all feel about a trans person using them? "
It clearly makes the majority of women feel uneasy. There’s an obvious solution that is respectful to all and that’s utilising the many easy access toilets that are little used. They’re also single occupancy so safe for the user whilst allowing the ‘cis’ (I fucking hate that term) person use those assigned to their sex. K |
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"
The media / government never want to highlight this aspect and seem hell bent on using Dave in a dress as the moniker for all trans women being a threat to women .
"
I’d disagree with this. If they’re highlighting anything it’s the ease of which someone can claim to be transitioning (the reality is many ‘Dave’s’ have no desire to and are merely AGP at best). I agree that once someone has transitioned and don’t feel the need nor wish to shout it from the roof tops whilst waving a flag every 2 months, that many won’t care. Those people have my full respect. It’s the disingenuous, weekend warriors that play the full time victim card I have an issue with. K |
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"I would much rather they were in my space and safe then exposed to possible danger
Even if it means other women/girls consequently feel exposed to possible danger? Which seems to be at the heart of the matter because if not, why the need for such spaces anyway?
Actually exposed to danger vs feeling exposed to danger?
Why does having a transwoman in the bathroom cause a perception of danger?
Does it count if they've had their lower surgeries and have a vagina now?
Are slightly masculine women more of a problem for causing panic and fear then? You don't know the contents of someone's pants just from being in the same room as them
Why does having a man in the bathroom cause a perception of danger?"
Why would having a bear in the bathroom cause a perception of danger? |
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By *oo..Woman 21 weeks ago
Boo's World |
You will never get a right or wrong answer for a question like this I don't think.
But more needs to be taken in to account in public spaces with mixed gender toilets being avaliable for everyone to use.
Younger people/pre teens/ teens aren't always comfortable using them alone.
Maybe they should just stick with Male,Female,Disabled,baby rooms and then make space for mixed gender toilets as well.
Who knows |
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By (user no longer on site) 21 weeks ago
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"I would much rather they were in my space and safe then exposed to possible danger
Even if it means other women/girls consequently feel exposed to possible danger? Which seems to be at the heart of the matter because if not, why the need for such spaces anyway?
Actually exposed to danger vs feeling exposed to danger?
Why does having a transwoman in the bathroom cause a perception of danger?
Does it count if they've had their lower surgeries and have a vagina now?
Are slightly masculine women more of a problem for causing panic and fear then? You don't know the contents of someone's pants just from being in the same room as them
Why does having a man in the bathroom cause a perception of danger?
Why would having a bear in the bathroom cause a perception of danger? "
Not really understanding your argument. Men are bears (unless they identify as women) and then they become the cute cuddly bears and definitely not the ones that might eat you? |
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"Why does having a man in the bathroom cause a perception of danger?
Why would having a bear in the bathroom cause a perception of danger?
Not really understanding your argument. Men are bears (unless they identify as women) and then they become the cute cuddly bears and definitely not the ones that might eat you?"
Oh I thought we were just putting other things in the bathroom for the sake of it.
Most trans women present as more feminine than the majority of naturally female lidl shoppers.
The illusion of threat from the unknown contents of someone's underpants seems odd. |
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By (user no longer on site) 21 weeks ago
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"The illusion of threat from the unknown contents of someone's underpants seems odd."
I agree with that.
But if we have spaces limited to people on the basis of the contents of their underpants it isn't surprising that people become confused when others argue those contents no longer matter.
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By (user no longer on site) 21 weeks ago
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The issue with chats like this is that the question is loaded, in this modern world their is no room for actual opinions, if you express any actual personal opinion your cancelled. |
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By (user no longer on site) 21 weeks ago
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The issue with chats like this is that the question is loaded, in this modern world their is no room for actual opinions, if you express any actual personal opinion your cancelled. |
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By (user no longer on site) 21 weeks ago
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"The issue with chats like this is that the question is loaded, in this modern world their is no room for actual opinions, if you express any actual personal opinion your cancelled."
You have to express one first... |
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By (user no longer on site) 21 weeks ago
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I think everyone deserves respect and to be treated kindly. If a trans person asks me to use preferred pronouns or a chosen name I’m happy to, it costs me nothing……but I don’t accept their gender has changed (I’m a science man, I believe in XX and XY) and I’d prefer biological males should be in certain public spaces as my daughters. |
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“Trans” is too wide a descriptor now. Covers severe gender dysphoria with surgery, hormones n GRC to “Pete” who lwears nail varnish and heels on a Sat night (with full beard ) and likes to be called “Petra” etc etc. each to their own, no issue with either but …….
I imagine my reaction to finding the first scenario in a single sex space would differ to the latter. depends on scenario eg cubicle toilets, closed changing room, open changing room, refuge, hospital ward etc etc.
Everyone deserves respect but can’t see the justification for “Petra” being on a female ward, open changing room or cell just cause it’s a Sat night and he’s got heels on.
Dx |
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"I go to a small theatre in Bristol quirky place
They have changed the toilets there so everybody can use what would have been the traditional male female toilets. The urinal are in a row right in front of the main toilets , door opens and it’s a girl coming out from there if I had been outside the toilets I would of been done for flashing myself makes me feel awkward I don’t understand why it can’t be kept to male female are even why females would want to use male toilets there generally disgusting. I feel it’s more awkward for a male so maybe should have more male only spaces if we’re talking toilets
I don't think you can be done for flashing if you're using a urinal in a unisex lavatory.
But why should I feel awkward when using the toilet
Use a cubicle if you don't want anyone to see your dick "
I don’t have a problem
With people seeing my dick I don’t understand why I should feel awkward as a 44 year old man having 18/19 year old females that feel they need to use what would be male toilets so I should have to use a cubicle
If you have ever been in a males toilet the cubicles are generally gross hence the opening part about a space for women it’s not just women that should have that |
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"The illusion of threat from the unknown contents of someone's underpants seems odd.
I agree with that.
But if we have spaces limited to people on the basis of the contents of their underpants it isn't surprising that people become confused when others argue those contents no longer matter.
"
Some people do, some people don't.
I see places listing male or female specific events with clarification on what that means.
I see male only events where it's specified that amab is where they're defining their line. I'm going to a female only event next month that clarifies people living their lives as women.
There are times when the genitalia you were born with is more relevant than others.
How someone perceives you as a threat in a bathroom based on genitalia they have absolutely no idea of has little to do with anything but their own prejudices. |
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I haven't read all replies. I could not be fucking arsed.
My toilet at home is unisex - that's all i'm saying.
Some toilets in town are unisex , that's all i'm saying.
The changing rooms in my local pool have been unisex for as long as I can remember ...... decades.... that's all i'm saying.
Not every person on the bleeding planet besides devout heteros want to see your goddam fanny ........ |
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"I don’t accept their gender has changed (I’m a science man, I believe in XX and XY) and I’d prefer biological males should be in certain public spaces as my daughters."
But don't you see your argument is flawed and could be dangerous to your daughters.
Your automatic assumption that XY is dangerous and XX is safe has nothing to do with that person. You are saying all men are dangerous until proven otherwise. Are you? But you're certainly sexist against men?
In the review of the Fred and Rose West killings, it was having a woman there that reassured the victims they were safe. |
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By (user no longer on site) 21 weeks ago
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"I don’t accept their gender has changed (I’m a science man, I believe in XX and XY) and I’d prefer biological males should be in certain public spaces as my daughters.
But don't you see your argument is flawed and could be dangerous to your daughters.
Your automatic assumption that XY is dangerous and XX is safe has nothing to do with that person. You are saying all men are dangerous until proven otherwise. Are you? But you're certainly sexist against men?
In the review of the Fred and Rose West killings, it was having a woman there that reassured the victims they were safe."
I suspect they are sayinh the risk with men is higher than women, even if the difference is at tail end. So they are playing the law of averages here.
However.
To support this approach when looking at the risk of trans women, you need to show that the risk here is similar to that of men in general
I have no idea about that. But I'd argue a scientific view would look at that.
And that's before linking causality of increased risk with chromosomes. |
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"I think we probably first need to think about a definition of a "man" and a "woman", something even the government does not want to commit to. Should we go by "if it has boobs (moobs don't count, sorry!) it's a woman. Or even further, a woman is a person with a vagina (and that includes "designer vaginas")? Discuss?
Once we agree on the definition, only then we can properly discuss the "women only" places.
Would you class a trans( m2f) women who has had a sex change and taking hormones as a women?"
I personally would class anyone with female genitals, regardless of whether they got those at birth or whether it was a result of a surgery, as a woman. On the same hand, I would class anyone with a penis, regardless whether they were born with it or it was a result of surgery, as a man. I would definitely not class even the most convincing person with a penis as a woman, unless possibly they were on the waiting list for sex change surgery and living full time as a woman. I think that's why the government does not want to commit to a definition of "woman" and "man" as it is way too much of a minefield and regardless of the outcome, someone will get upset. |
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By (user no longer on site) 21 weeks ago
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I’m not saying either XX or XY is more dangerous. Both genders have individuals that are equally dangerous. My point is, I don’t believe changing a pronoun, a name and adding some cosmetic changes alters a gender. At a fundamental level the person is still the gender their chromosomes dictate.
I’m happy to use the pronouns they want me to, and any name, it’s polite and costs me nothing, but I don’t believe them to ‘actual women’ or indeed ‘actual men’.
Following that argument, I believe that if an area is designated a ‘women only’ for any reason, it should only be for people with an XX chromosome. |
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"Following that argument, I believe that if an area is designated a ‘women only’ for any reason, it should only be for people with an XX chromosome."
OK, what do you suggest for those with XXY, XYX or those who or those who present as intersex?
Gender is not as simple as you seem to think it is. |
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By (user no longer on site) 21 weeks ago
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Maybe not, but those cases are an exceptionally small minority and you can’t base laws on such small minorities.
As such, I just believe in the XX and XY majority. Each to their own though, and I’m not ever going to be in a position to do anything about it. I just think all opinions should be considered rather than as it is now where people are demonised for a traditional view. |
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By (user no longer on site) 21 weeks ago
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"Maybe not, but those cases are an exceptionally small minority and you can’t base laws on such small minorities.
As such, I just believe in the XX and XY majority. Each to their own though, and I’m not ever going to be in a position to do anything about it. I just think all opinions should be considered rather than as it is now where people are demonised for a traditional view."
have you had your chromosomes checked?
Really, we are taking genitals. At birth.
And for historic reasons, what we pack between our legs is used to divvy up society. (More likely reproduction role tbf)
And That drives not just the traditional view of man and women, but the traditional view on how approach difficult questions. |
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By (user no longer on site) 21 weeks ago
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We can all agree to disagree, that’s a good thing about the U.K.. as long as people are treated kindly if not die-in-a-ditch over it.
I have my beliefs and people are entitled to theirs. |
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I think as some put it's about looks and passing... It's always been about passing.. there used to be white only toilets and black only toilets... If you looked the part no issues it's the same w trans/women... People just refuse to be that simple behind the fear/reasons |
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"I’m not saying either XX or XY is more dangerous. Both genders have individuals that are equally dangerous. My point is, I don’t believe changing a pronoun, a name and adding some cosmetic changes alters a gender. At a fundamental level the person is still the gender their chromosomes dictate.
I’m happy to use the pronouns they want me to, and any name, it’s polite and costs me nothing, but I don’t believe them to ‘actual women’ or indeed ‘actual men’.
Following that argument, I believe that if an area is designated a ‘women only’ for any reason, it should only be for people with an XX chromosome."
Why does it matter to you? It’s a space you’ll never enter. The voices that matter on this are the ones of the people using the spaces |
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Like granny has said further up, swimming pool changing rooms have been unisex for decades and I have never felt uncomfortable.
I've been to a few places with unisex toilets, I can't say I've ever been in one when a man has walked in them and I'm very "rule" bound, if it says unisex, then anyone can use it, it doesn't bother me in the slightest. If we are talking trans using the ladies, doesn't bother me, let's face it, they have been through so much already, it's just a toilet/changing room etc, everyone needs to pee!
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By (user no longer on site) 21 weeks ago
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So if what’s between a persons legs has absolutely no bearing on who can use ‘a space’, then why don’t we completely get rid of all ‘designated spaces’ and have uni-sex everything? Toilets, changing rooms……everything?! |
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"So if what’s between a persons legs has absolutely no bearing on who can use ‘a space’, then why don’t we completely get rid of all ‘designated spaces’ and have uni-sex everything? Toilets, changing rooms……everything?!"
Many of these spaces are unisex.
I am 50 years old and I haven't been to a swimming pool with separate sex changing areas since I was a child.
Many newer buildings have unisex toilets, including my workplace.
In most cases, its not a problem. |
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"So if what’s between a persons legs has absolutely no bearing on who can use ‘a space’, then why don’t we completely get rid of all ‘designated spaces’ and have uni-sex everything? Toilets, changing rooms……everything?!"
Go into Tim Hortons it's a unisex bathroom... one door into all toilets areas but once inside it's individual toilets w their own sinks inside. Not a hard concept to do |
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By (user no longer on site) 21 weeks ago
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To all those women saying that ‘at there age is doesn’t matter’ I applaud you, but were you equally as confident when you were 16/17 and would you have been as content then? |
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"To all those women saying that ‘at there age is doesn’t matter’ I applaud you, but were you equally as confident when you were 16/17 and would you have been as content then? "
Yep. I also have two teens (17 & 18 - one of whom is trans) who don't give a flying fig either |
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I think it should all be private cubicles, which are unisex, for all to use. This includes family/baby/disabled facilities. I've never liked public open changing rooms, in any setting. People maybe don't mean to, but they do watch others, when they get undressed and that's always made me feel uncomfortable. |
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I'm sorry,, this thread started really interesting, then it became repetitive with the same contents being discussed over and over again tho in slightly different narratives - I must have fallen asleep or skipped the majority as I ended up here - now what were we talking about again??
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"If I’m out and about as Rachel, I will always use the ladies loo if I need to. However more recently I do feel sooooo much less confident in doing so, that I’m going to be challenged or called out.
R x
Yeah some of my tv friends are too scared now to use bathrooms full stop in public now women’s are no no now for them men’s is a hard pass as they get agro / verbal abuse more often than not from groups or lads / guys.
I tell them to use the disabled instead if they are desperate.
And when they come out theres someone with a disability wondering wtf you’re doing in the disabled loos - its impossible
Remember not all disability is visible "
They're not, no. But the disabled toilets ARE designed for disabled people. Not people who feel uncomfortable about using a gendered toilet. If the trans (or cis) person has a disability (visible or unseen), then fine, obviously. If not, then I have to disagree with it. There's few enough disabled toilets as it is and many serve also as baby changing, which further increases demand. And some parents are very demanding/impatient and will get angry if they have to wait.
I don't know all the answers to Toilet Wars, but I do know that the answer is not the disabled toilet.
I personally have zero issues with mixed gender toilets or with trans people using the bathroom of their gender identity. |
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"I’m not saying either XX or XY is more dangerous. Both genders have individuals that are equally dangerous. My point is, I don’t believe changing a pronoun, a name and adding some cosmetic changes alters a gender. At a fundamental level the person is still the gender their chromosomes dictate.
I’m happy to use the pronouns they want me to, and any name, it’s polite and costs me nothing, but I don’t believe them to ‘actual women’ or indeed ‘actual men’.
Following that argument, I believe that if an area is designated a ‘women only’ for any reason, it should only be for people with an XX chromosome.
Why does it matter to you? It’s a space you’ll never enter. The voices that matter on this are the ones of the people using the spaces "
Not exclusively though as it is a wider societal issue. I can have a view on antisemitism without ever having experienced it directly. |
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"So if what’s between a persons legs has absolutely no bearing on who can use ‘a space’, then why don’t we completely get rid of all ‘designated spaces’ and have uni-sex everything? Toilets, changing rooms……everything?!
Go into Tim Hortons it's a unisex bathroom... one door into all toilets areas but once inside it's individual toilets w their own sinks inside. Not a hard concept to do "
Exactly this. It also makes it much easier for parents with children to use the same toilet area. As a woman with boys I always found it awkward taking them into the ladies with me. What age was appropriate to stop them coming with me. Were they too young to use the male space alone. Age gaps so 1 could still come with me and the bigger one alone in the men's.
I presume it's even worse for dads with girls.
I'm all for unisex toilets as described above. |
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"So if what’s between a persons legs has absolutely no bearing on who can use ‘a space’, then why don’t we completely get rid of all ‘designated spaces’ and have uni-sex everything? Toilets, changing rooms……everything?!
Go into Tim Hortons it's a unisex bathroom... one door into all toilets areas but once inside it's individual toilets w their own sinks inside. Not a hard concept to do
Exactly this. It also makes it much easier for parents with children to use the same toilet area. As a woman with boys I always found it awkward taking them into the ladies with me. What age was appropriate to stop them coming with me. Were they too young to use the male space alone. Age gaps so 1 could still come with me and the bigger one alone in the men's.
I presume it's even worse for dads with girls.
I'm all for unisex toilets as described above. "
As a dad with girls when they were younger I had to take them in to the men’s toilets. Worse though was taking them swimming where there were no family cubicles so having to change them in an open environment male changing area.
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By (user no longer on site) 21 weeks ago
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"So if what’s between a persons legs has absolutely no bearing on who can use ‘a space’, then why don’t we completely get rid of all ‘designated spaces’ and have uni-sex everything? Toilets, changing rooms……everything?!
Go into Tim Hortons it's a unisex bathroom... one door into all toilets areas but once inside it's individual toilets w their own sinks inside. Not a hard concept to do
Exactly this. It also makes it much easier for parents with children to use the same toilet area. As a woman with boys I always found it awkward taking them into the ladies with me. What age was appropriate to stop them coming with me. Were they too young to use the male space alone. Age gaps so 1 could still come with me and the bigger one alone in the men's.
I presume it's even worse for dads with girls.
I'm all for unisex toilets as described above. "
Why is it awkward taking them into the ladies with you?
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By *essTTWoman 21 weeks ago
Birmingham |
"In reality, there is no problem, but on MSM on certain social media platforms we are portrayed as predators , and a risk to other women and girls. This is complete rubbish.
I was at the grand theatre in Wolves last year. My male friend went into the male toilets. He said there were a group of women in there.
Nothing happened!
If a predator wants to attack a woman, he can do it anywhere, in fact most abuse of women occur at home.
Trans women are being used political tool.
"
I agree, I've been in toilets where trans women(and I only know they were trans because they didn't pass very well) and no one has batted an eye lid.
They literally go into their cubicle the same as everyone else do their business, clean up and leave.
The way the media acts is as if they're trying to get into cubicles with other people and share half a toilet seat  |
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"Even though we are a couple I do like to play with women separately. I struggle finding woman on here, as I'm not to sure if it's a male or not. I would welcome an all women swing club or bi night"
There is some ladies only nights at certain clubs, have a look in the club events and meets section. |
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Just a question.
So if the answer is unisex toilets wouldn't that be a bigger risk to woman. Given that there would be more contact with men and they are potentially more harmful to woman than transwoman.
Anyone got any figures about attacks on woman in unisex facilities. I can't recall anything locally about this and like others have said unisex changing at swimming pools has been around for ages.
Mrs x |
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By *8on33Man 21 weeks ago
winfrith |
"Public bathrooms you mean. Or changing rooms / hospital wards / shelters etc ? Some big differences there in usage .
As a trans woman of 15+ years now. I have never had issues with bathrooms / changing rooms once I had all my face surgeries / body changes with hormones over time.
The reality is it’s all about what you look like as a trans person , if you blend / pass ok then it’s a non issue as no one knows .
The media / government never want to highlight this aspect and seem hell bent on using Dave in a dress as the moniker for all trans women being a threat to women .
"
Unfortunately they as you've said are the ones who get noticed by virtue of the fact they look like a man dressed up,if you didn't notice them it wouldn't be an issue. |
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By (user no longer on site) 21 weeks ago
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"Just a question.
So if the answer is unisex toilets wouldn't that be a bigger risk to woman. Given that there would be more contact with men and they are potentially more harmful to woman than transwoman.
Anyone got any figures about attacks on woman in unisex facilities. I can't recall anything locally about this and like others have said unisex changing at swimming pools has been around for ages.
Mrs x"
"Unisex" is pretty much single sex in that you generally get a private cubicle... Unless you're using a toilet in France and unisex is exactly as described and people seemingly don't care about men pissing in front of women/men/anyone passing by. |
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"Just a question.
So if the answer is unisex toilets wouldn't that be a bigger risk to woman. Given that there would be more contact with men and they are potentially more harmful to woman than transwoman.
Anyone got any figures about attacks on woman in unisex facilities. I can't recall anything locally about this and like others have said unisex changing at swimming pools has been around for ages.
Mrs x
"Unisex" is pretty much single sex in that you generally get a private cubicle... Unless you're using a toilet in France and unisex is exactly as described and people seemingly don't care about men pissing in front of women/men/anyone passing by."
Serious question, does this situation of men pissing wherever and in front of whoever, result in any serious issues for French women? I ask because in the UK, we're told that mixed gender bathrooms are a risk to safety. |
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By (user no longer on site) 21 weeks ago
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"Serious question, does this situation of men pissing wherever and in front of whoever, result in any serious issues for French women? I ask because in the UK, we're told that mixed gender bathrooms are a risk to safety. "
Who tells you it's a risk to safety (not including people on here)?
I'd imagine for many it's more an issue of comfort and privacy than an assumption of men being pervs and predators. We're culturally uncomfortable with the idea of nudity. There are still people in this country who can't handle mothers breastfeeding, let alone topless sunbathing.
Having said that I prefer to piss in private. Unless I've drank too much tea. |
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"Serious question, does this situation of men pissing wherever and in front of whoever, result in any serious issues for French women? I ask because in the UK, we're told that mixed gender bathrooms are a risk to safety.
Who tells you it's a risk to safety (not including people on here)?
I'd imagine for many it's more an issue of comfort and privacy than an assumption of men being pervs and predators. We're culturally uncomfortable with the idea of nudity. There are still people in this country who can't handle mothers breastfeeding, let alone topless sunbathing.
Having said that I prefer to piss in private. Unless I've drank too much tea."
Who says it's a risk to safety? Lots of commentators in the media and in general chat, it seems. I'll note that's not what I think is true, though. I don't think putting cartoon pictures of men or women on a toilet door will stop a dangerous predator from attacking someone. They won't be dissuaded by the "rules" of toilet etiquette or a picture on the door.
I can understand the comfort thing, to some extent, but mixed gender toilets in the UK are almost always individual cubicles, and any "communal" space is just the hand wash area which is usually very open and not enclosed.
I'm just curious as to why the French seem okay with the mixed gender thing, yet here, it seems to be the latest culture war. |
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"After what been said on the news about place for women only. How do you all feel about a trans person using them? "
Personally I don’t care. However this debate around trans ignores people who are female to male and entering male spaces such as toilets. As ever, this entire debate is sexist, one sided and fuelled by hate and bigotry. |
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"Even though we are a couple I do like to play with women separately. I struggle finding woman on here, as I'm not to sure if it's a male or not. I would welcome an all women swing club or bi night
There is some ladies only nights at certain clubs, have a look in the club events and meets section."
This one.
I'm going to Ruby Slippers at Townhouse next month to see if I can quell the bipanic by only having women around |
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"So if what’s between a persons legs has absolutely no bearing on who can use ‘a space’, then why don’t we completely get rid of all ‘designated spaces’ and have uni-sex everything? Toilets, changing rooms……everything?!
Go into Tim Hortons it's a unisex bathroom... one door into all toilets areas but once inside it's individual toilets w their own sinks inside. Not a hard concept to do
Exactly this. It also makes it much easier for parents with children to use the same toilet area. As a woman with boys I always found it awkward taking them into the ladies with me. What age was appropriate to stop them coming with me. Were they too young to use the male space alone. Age gaps so 1 could still come with me and the bigger one alone in the men's.
I presume it's even worse for dads with girls.
I'm all for unisex toilets as described above.
Why is it awkward taking them into the ladies with you?
"
It wasn't when they were toddlers but as they got a bit older it became awkward as in what's an acceptable age where they could still accompany me. But them still being too young and shy to go in the men's toilets alone.
As the poster above said he had same issues with his girls. Unisex or family changing is the way forward. Everyone has a private space to attend to nature |
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