FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Can you accept other peoples views?
Can you accept other peoples views?
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"Or are you stuck in your own ways or open for change? Did you know that open minded people can cope with others opinion that differs from theirs? Although nowadays I guess it is hard to accept other views. Personally I am open minded and I can listen to what others have to say on the subject and then from that I am willing to change my view if it sounds credible. I will say, well there is something init or perhaps you are totally wrong or there are elements on it that you are right on, but not on everything we dont agree on "I think i am - on the points where we disagree i listen politely and sometimes say we'll have to agree to disagree - its not in my nature to be confrontational so i wonder if other people think I'm agreeing with them | |||
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"Or are you stuck in your own ways or open for change? Did you know that open minded people can cope with others opinion that differs from theirs? Although nowadays I guess it is hard to accept other views. Personally I am open minded and I can listen to what others have to say on the subject and then from that I am willing to change my view if it sounds credible. I will say, well there is something init or perhaps you are totally wrong or there are elements on it that you are right on, but not on everything we dont agree on "I am happy to listen to the views of others and at times I will change my opinion if the evidence supports it ie politics but if the opinion is based more on feelings/beliefs ie religion then I will listen but that is all. | |||
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"I accept other people are entitled to their views but I don’t need to agree with them. Each to their own but if their view if overtly offensive or discriminatory I’ve no issue in challenging them over it. " Pretty much this. There's a big difference between accepting and respecting views in my mind. I do also sometimes struggle to comprehend the thought process that some seem to use in deciding on a particular view or perspective, especially if there's a total lack of logic, empathy, knowledge or rational thought behind what is being expressed. I seriously struggle with conspiracy theorists and those that express an opinion without any willingness to back up their viewpoint with a tangible argument as to why they feel a certain way. The whole 'I think that way because I can' sentiment, without the appearance of any explanation. That to me is more closed minded than someone who seems unwilling to accept another view. Own your opinions and be willing to explain the thought process behind them and you'll find more people accept your view even if they don't agree with you one bit. | |||
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"Or are you stuck in your own ways or open for change? Did you know that open minded people can cope with others opinion that differs from theirs? Although nowadays I guess it is hard to accept other views. Personally I am open minded and I can listen to what others have to say on the subject and then from that I am willing to change my view if it sounds credible. I will say, well there is something init or perhaps you are totally wrong or there are elements on it that you are right on, but not on everything we dont agree on "Accept or adopt? I accept other people's view when we are discussing something, trying to come up with a solution, etc. I do not automatically adopt them though. I might, but not immediately unless there is eveidence to support it. | |||
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"Yes I accept that each individual has a unique outlook on life and life's events. It's hugely immature and pointless to argue the toss with someone as if you were hitting a tennis ball back and forth. I know at least one person on here who is lying to themselves about being able to shoulder other people and their views. It's certainly not how they come across. Very few people are practised in the art of listening ( and I don't mean staying schtum ) I mean learning about others and why they hold the views they do. " I may have said this before, decades ago when I was at school they had a debating team. The teacher who ran it always said that before you could challenge someone else’s position you had to have a thorough understanding of any opposing opinion. | |||
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"You’re not allowed an opinion on Fab unless it coincides with the leftist “establishment”. Stop rocking the boat!! " Haha so your answer is no then? | |||
"Yes I accept that each individual has a unique outlook on life and life's events. It's hugely immature and pointless to argue the toss with someone as if you were hitting a tennis ball back and forth. I know at least one person on here who is lying to themselves about being able to shoulder other people and their views. It's certainly not how they come across. Very few people are practised in the art of listening ( and I don't mean staying schtum ) I mean learning about others and why they hold the views they do. I may have said this before, decades ago when I was at school they had a debating team. The teacher who ran it always said that before you could challenge someone else’s position you had to have a thorough understanding of any opposing opinion. " Yep true. Those debating aim to win though by vote of an audience or judge. It's batting off the opponents points and putting your points as facts and getting others on your side. I prefer dialogue, where each listens, thinks and moves their position slightly or remains unchanged. If each of us engaged in personal development instead of personal gain society as a whole would benefit. | |||
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"I accept other people are entitled to their views but I don’t need to agree with them. Each to their own but if their view if overtly offensive or discriminatory I’ve no issue in challenging them over it. " That is good and yes, one dont need to agree with them. | |||
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"You’re not allowed an opinion on Fab unless it coincides with the leftist “establishment”. Stop rocking the boat!! " It’s true. People on fab are so left wing | |||
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"Here’s an oversimplified answer for an oversimplified question Yes and no. We’re living in a time where we have to respect other people’s opinions and that they’re entitled to them and I really disagree with that. That means, I have to accept opinions and views from people who know nothing about the subject they’ve somehow formed an opinion on. How often do you come across someone who says “I don’t know enough about that to have an opinion on it.” It’s not often. Also, if they’re discriminatory views then I just won’t give them the time of day. If that makes me the bad guy, then so be it "Bad guy by Billie Eilish is one of my favourite songs | |||
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"I can accept that people hold a different opinion and I don't get all offended if they do. I don't have to accept they're right though." exactly and you have the power | |||
"If someone doesn’t think Messi is the best footballer of all time, or lebron is the best basketball player of all time then yeah. I can hear them. And I think I’ve even learned so many new things and broadened my perspectives. If it’s to do with race, I am not gonna lie, it would depend on the person’s experience and their knowledge on it. Like obviously I’m not closed minded, that’s how I have continued to learn about it. But I am less likely to *accept* the views of someone saying something upsetting or insulting. I think same about other kinds of discrimination tbh. But I think when I am less knowledgeable on it I will likely do more listening than talking. Might not always change my perspective but might question theirs to find out more. Learn more. When it comes to things like even being a Tory or how people vote I am happy to stay open minded and hear their reasoning. Again I’m unlikely to change my opinion and it’s unlikely we will get on. But I think that is very dependent on their views on things like race, gender, class etc. I guess to lots of people I probably don’t seem open minded. Though I feel I am and have learned so much in my short 26 years from others. But I’m ok with whatever " From what you said above you don’t seem very open minded, or at least not much mental elasticity , but like you say only 26. | |||
"If someone doesn’t think Messi is the best footballer of all time, or lebron is the best basketball player of all time then yeah. I can hear them. And I think I’ve even learned so many new things and broadened my perspectives. If it’s to do with race, I am not gonna lie, it would depend on the person’s experience and their knowledge on it. Like obviously I’m not closed minded, that’s how I have continued to learn about it. But I am less likely to *accept* the views of someone saying something upsetting or insulting. I think same about other kinds of discrimination tbh. But I think when I am less knowledgeable on it I will likely do more listening than talking. Might not always change my perspective but might question theirs to find out more. Learn more. When it comes to things like even being a Tory or how people vote I am happy to stay open minded and hear their reasoning. Again I’m unlikely to change my opinion and it’s unlikely we will get on. But I think that is very dependent on their views on things like race, gender, class etc. I guess to lots of people I probably don’t seem open minded. Though I feel I am and have learned so much in my short 26 years from others. But I’m ok with whatever " I’m unsure how flexible one should be on race or discrimination. Nobody should accept abhorrent views. | |||
"Here’s an oversimplified answer for an oversimplified question Yes and no. We’re living in a time where we have to respect other people’s opinions and that they’re entitled to them and I really disagree with that. That means, I have to accept opinions and views from people who know nothing about the subject they’ve somehow formed an opinion on. How often do you come across someone who says “I don’t know enough about that to have an opinion on it.” It’s not often. Also, if they’re discriminatory views then I just won’t give them the time of day. If that makes me the bad guy, then so be it "Accept they have an opinion doesn't mean accept that they are right or that you need to change your belief. They came to their understanding because of their life experiences. Perhaps they lag behind you , perhaps they are way out in front of you or perhaps they lack the mental capacity to change their point of view - they still have an opinion they can't help that. How did Trump get in ?  His supporters aren't generally found in the Genius pool | |||
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" How did Trump get in ? His supporters aren't generally found in the Genius pool"This is a perfect example of closed mindedness dressed up as superiority. I would _never_ vote for Trump but I can understand what drives people to vote for him. They are not actually voting for him, they are voting because they feel they have been left behind and that he is only one who “cares”. You and I know he doesn’t care but that doesn’t mean that their vote is wrong or stupid - it is a cry for help and us “superior” people are ignoring them. That doesn’t seem open minded to me. | |||
"If someone doesn’t think Messi is the best footballer of all time, or lebron is the best basketball player of all time then yeah. I can hear them. And I think I’ve even learned so many new things and broadened my perspectives. If it’s to do with race, I am not gonna lie, it would depend on the person’s experience and their knowledge on it. Like obviously I’m not closed minded, that’s how I have continued to learn about it. But I am less likely to *accept* the views of someone saying something upsetting or insulting. I think same about other kinds of discrimination tbh. But I think when I am less knowledgeable on it I will likely do more listening than talking. Might not always change my perspective but might question theirs to find out more. Learn more. When it comes to things like even being a Tory or how people vote I am happy to stay open minded and hear their reasoning. Again I’m unlikely to change my opinion and it’s unlikely we will get on. But I think that is very dependent on their views on things like race, gender, class etc. I guess to lots of people I probably don’t seem open minded. Though I feel I am and have learned so much in my short 26 years from others. But I’m ok with whatever From what you said above you don’t seem very open minded, or at least not much mental elasticity , but like you say only 26. " I’m ok with you thinking that. And yeah I’m only 26. If I’m lucky enough to live many more years, maybe I’ll change. I mean my views and opinions on so many things from gender, sexuality, classism, colourism etc have all changed massively because of discussion and learning from others (and studies ofc) and it’s the main reason I lost my faith and am not religious anymore. Having grown up in a religious family and gone to a faith school. The most that I’ve learned has been from other people’s experiences. And their knowledge. And then my own learning. My views have changed loads like I said, in my relatively short life. On race, they’re unlikely to change again and I don’t apologise for that. | |||
"If someone doesn’t think Messi is the best footballer of all time, or lebron is the best basketball player of all time then yeah. I can hear them. And I think I’ve even learned so many new things and broadened my perspectives. If it’s to do with race, I am not gonna lie, it would depend on the person’s experience and their knowledge on it. Like obviously I’m not closed minded, that’s how I have continued to learn about it. But I am less likely to *accept* the views of someone saying something upsetting or insulting. I think same about other kinds of discrimination tbh. But I think when I am less knowledgeable on it I will likely do more listening than talking. Might not always change my perspective but might question theirs to find out more. Learn more. When it comes to things like even being a Tory or how people vote I am happy to stay open minded and hear their reasoning. Again I’m unlikely to change my opinion and it’s unlikely we will get on. But I think that is very dependent on their views on things like race, gender, class etc. I guess to lots of people I probably don’t seem open minded. Though I feel I am and have learned so much in my short 26 years from others. But I’m ok with whatever I’m unsure how flexible one should be on race or discrimination. Nobody should accept abhorrent views." I think plenty of people want us to be open to hearing the views of bigots. For my own wellbeing I’m ok thanks | |||
"Or are you stuck in your own ways or open for change? Did you know that open minded people can cope with others opinion that differs from theirs? Although nowadays I guess it is hard to accept other views. Personally I am open minded and I can listen to what others have to say on the subject and then from that I am willing to change my view if it sounds credible. I will say, well there is something init or perhaps you are totally wrong or there are elements on it that you are right on, but not on everything we dont agree on
I think i am - on the points where we disagree i listen politely and sometimes say we'll have to agree to disagree - its not in my nature to be confrontational so i wonder if other people think I'm agreeing with them"That is good and same here. I listen and I also say we will have to agree to disagree if we dont agree on something | |||
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"I am happy to listen to the views of others and at times I will change my opinion if the evidence supports it ie politics but if the opinion is based more on feelings/beliefs ie religion then I will listen but that is all." This. I am open to learning from others knowledge/ expertise/ experiences and will change my mind or agree to disagree. If it's a fundamental core value for me, I don't waiver on it, equally if I think something is inaccurate or unacceptable I'll share my opinion to that effect. I have close friends with fundamental different political opinions and we respect our differences, but sometimes have spicy debates. I don't think I could be in a relationship with anyone I wasn't aligned with in mindset/ values, though. | |||
"If someone doesn’t think Messi is the best footballer of all time, or lebron is the best basketball player of all time then yeah. I can hear them. And I think I’ve even learned so many new things and broadened my perspectives. If it’s to do with race, I am not gonna lie, it would depend on the person’s experience and their knowledge on it. Like obviously I’m not closed minded, that’s how I have continued to learn about it. But I am less likely to *accept* the views of someone saying something upsetting or insulting. I think same about other kinds of discrimination tbh. But I think when I am less knowledgeable on it I will likely do more listening than talking. Might not always change my perspective but might question theirs to find out more. Learn more. When it comes to things like even being a Tory or how people vote I am happy to stay open minded and hear their reasoning. Again I’m unlikely to change my opinion and it’s unlikely we will get on. But I think that is very dependent on their views on things like race, gender, class etc. I guess to lots of people I probably don’t seem open minded. Though I feel I am and have learned so much in my short 26 years from others. But I’m ok with whatever I’m unsure how flexible one should be on race or discrimination. Nobody should accept abhorrent views. I think plenty of people want us to be open to hearing the views of bigots. For my own wellbeing I’m ok thanks "Being open to the opinion of bigots.. great point. Think the free speech/ feeling offended is a you problem Vs it being a bigoted/ whatever...ist/ discriminatory comment, is a valid issue that comes up where it isn't a black and white topic. People get more invested in topics that affect them directly or relate to their lived experiences too. | |||
"Or are you stuck in your own ways or open for change? Did you know that open minded people can cope with others opinion that differs from theirs? Although nowadays I guess it is hard to accept other views. Personally I am open minded and I can listen to what others have to say on the subject and then from that I am willing to change my view if it sounds credible. I will say, well there is something init or perhaps you are totally wrong or there are elements on it that you are right on, but not on everything we dont agree on "I can accept that people have other opinions, and to a certain extent entertain them but I don’t accept them as being correct. People who are bigoted for instance, I can accept that they are bigots but I don’t accept their opinion in any way. | |||
"If someone doesn’t think Messi is the best footballer of all time, or lebron is the best basketball player of all time then yeah. I can hear them. And I think I’ve even learned so many new things and broadened my perspectives. If it’s to do with race, I am not gonna lie, it would depend on the person’s experience and their knowledge on it. Like obviously I’m not closed minded, that’s how I have continued to learn about it. But I am less likely to *accept* the views of someone saying something upsetting or insulting. I think same about other kinds of discrimination tbh. But I think when I am less knowledgeable on it I will likely do more listening than talking. Might not always change my perspective but might question theirs to find out more. Learn more. When it comes to things like even being a Tory or how people vote I am happy to stay open minded and hear their reasoning. Again I’m unlikely to change my opinion and it’s unlikely we will get on. But I think that is very dependent on their views on things like race, gender, class etc. I guess to lots of people I probably don’t seem open minded. Though I feel I am and have learned so much in my short 26 years from others. But I’m ok with whatever I’m unsure how flexible one should be on race or discrimination. Nobody should accept abhorrent views." Agree but results often come in surprising ways when you’re open minded & can listen , which is very different from compromising your values | |||
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" How did Trump get in ? His supporters aren't generally found in the Genius pool
This is a perfect example of closed mindedness dressed up as superiority. I would _never_ vote for Trump but I can understand what drives people to vote for him. They are not actually voting for him, they are voting because they feel they have been left behind and that he is only one who “cares”. You and I know he doesn’t care but that doesn’t mean that their vote is wrong or stupid - it is a cry for help and us “superior” people are ignoring them. That doesn’t seem open minded to me."I understand the point of view you present for yourself and understand that it demonstrates your thoughts and not mine. | |||
"I'm open minded, but not so open minded my brain falls out. That may look like I'm stuck in my ways, but it could also be that I've examined the views in question and found them to be... monumentally stupid isn't strong enough a phrase." Fucking ridiculous ? | |||
"I'm open minded, but not so open minded my brain falls out. That may look like I'm stuck in my ways, but it could also be that I've examined the views in question and found them to be... monumentally stupid isn't strong enough a phrase. Fucking ridiculous ? " Nah. Still way off  | |||
"Or are you stuck in your own ways or open for change? Did you know that open minded people can cope with others opinion that differs from theirs? Although nowadays I guess it is hard to accept other views. Personally I am open minded and I can listen to what others have to say on the subject and then from that I am willing to change my view if it sounds credible. I will say, well there is something init or perhaps you are totally wrong or there are elements on it that you are right on, but not on everything we dont agree on "As long as no conflict happens. It is healthy to disagree but we learn to compromise | |||
"I'm open minded, but not so open minded my brain falls out. That may look like I'm stuck in my ways, but it could also be that I've examined the views in question and found them to be... monumentally stupid isn't strong enough a phrase." Ah you described it perfectly to me the other day | |||
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"I'm open minded, but not so open minded my brain falls out. That may look like I'm stuck in my ways, but it could also be that I've examined the views in question and found them to be... monumentally stupid isn't strong enough a phrase. Ah you described it perfectly to me the other day " | |||
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"I accept other people are entitled to their views but I don’t need to agree with them. Each to their own but if their view if overtly offensive or discriminatory I’ve no issue in challenging them over it. Pretty much this. There's a big difference between accepting and respecting views in my mind. I do also sometimes struggle to comprehend the thought process that some seem to use in deciding on a particular view or perspective, especially if there's a total lack of logic, empathy, knowledge or rational thought behind what is being expressed. I seriously struggle with conspiracy theorists and those that express an opinion without any willingness to back up their viewpoint with a tangible argument as to why they feel a certain way. The whole 'I think that way because I can' sentiment, without the appearance of any explanation. That to me is more closed minded than someone who seems unwilling to accept another view. Own your opinions and be willing to explain the thought process behind them and you'll find more people accept your view even if they don't agree with you one bit. " Obi, this is pretty much my view too. Also I'm a scientist, I like empirical data, evidence, information. I struggle with "just because" as an argument or to validate something. An opinion is not fact. | |||
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"Or are you stuck in your own ways or open for change? Did you know that open minded people can cope with others opinion that differs from theirs? Although nowadays I guess it is hard to accept other views. Personally I am open minded and I can listen to what others have to say on the subject and then from that I am willing to change my view if it sounds credible. I will say, well there is something init or perhaps you are totally wrong or there are elements on it that you are right on, but not on everything we dont agree on
As long as no conflict happens. It is healthy to disagree but we learn to compromise "Hi becs, you are right there, as long as no conflict happens and yes, it is healthy to disagree too | |||
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" How did Trump get in ? His supporters aren't generally found in the Genius pool
This is a perfect example of closed mindedness dressed up as superiority. I would _never_ vote for Trump but I can understand what drives people to vote for him. They are not actually voting for him, they are voting because they feel they have been left behind and that he is only one who “cares”. You and I know he doesn’t care but that doesn’t mean that their vote is wrong or stupid - it is a cry for help and us “superior” people are ignoring them. That doesn’t seem open minded to me."It's interesting to observe that even though he is a multi-millionaire, even though he's got innumerable court cases against him, even though he's a complete demagogue with scandal after scandal following him, despite all that, he still has supporters. And that worries me greatly. Because it essentially says, regardless of character, morals, actions, or wealth, that if you speak for those who feel, rightly or wrongly, aggrieved, they will follow you. . And it worries me because when did people stop caring about morals, integrity, honour, probity, etc ? There was a time these things mattered. When we demanded them of our leaders. Judged them accordingly for them. . And I can only conclude 2 things from that. 1. The people are SO aggrieved, they are willing to look the other way, and support their politicians blindly if need be, so long as they speak for them or 2. The people are selfish and value their needs and wants above the leader's own indiscretions. . The problem is, the citizens in 1. Are they "good citizens"? Are they not complicit ? If you created a new country tomorrow, would you want these people who turn a blind eye to terrible things, to be part of the make up of said country ? And if they are 2, would you want a country of people who would support any leader, regardless of probity, provided they gave them what they wanted ? It's murky at best. | |||
"It depends, a lot of time people say "That's my opinion" or "Only in your opinion" when it's not an opinion subject. Objective reality still applies, I say 2+2=4 and someone says "In your opinion" they are clearly idiots. You can have an opinion but you can't have your own facts." It's context though isn't it ? You might indeed say 2x2=4, and arithmetically speaking you would be correct. . But suppose I don't use your mathematical system and I use Ternary, as an example instead ? In my system, 2x2=11. You are clearly wrong. I am not aware of your system at all. . Some people, myself included, as ND, spend most of our lives wondering on earth what the heck other people are on about most of the time. And it's not just ND's of course. Every one has their own numerical system. . That's all life is really. Mathematically-challenged primates all yelling at each other and trying to figure out how each of us counts
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"It depends, a lot of time people say "That's my opinion" or "Only in your opinion" when it's not an opinion subject. Objective reality still applies, I say 2+2=4 and someone says "In your opinion" they are clearly idiots. You can have an opinion but you can't have your own facts. It's context though isn't it ? You might indeed say 2x2=4, and arithmetically speaking you would be correct. . But suppose I don't use your mathematical system and I use Ternary, as an example instead ? In my system, 2x2=11. You are clearly wrong. I am not aware of your system at all. . Some people, myself included, as ND, spend most of our lives wondering on earth what the heck other people are on about most of the time. And it's not just ND's of course. Every one has their own numerical system. . That's all life is really. Mathematically-challenged primates all yelling at each other and trying to figure out how each of us counts
"That was just an example, but you can find others. Denying the existence of a coffee table, you really can believe hard enough but when you put a mug full of hot drink it will still be there, the opinion that it doesn't exist doesn't make it so. | |||
" That was just an example, but you can find others. Denying the existence of a coffee table, you really can believe hard enough but when you put a mug full of hot drink it will still be there, the opinion that it doesn't exist doesn't make it so." Oh indeed. Manifestly the table is there, in real space. We both know what it is, and what it does. We can agree on it's purpose. However, consider a 2-dimensional being. They do not see a table (though it is manifestly there). They see a line. As you put down the coffee cup (a nice blend I hope !), they see a U shaped flat ceramic object rest upon the line. They have no concept of 3D. Whilst the objects to you and me are both undeniable in shape and purpose, our 2D "friend" is having a hard time reconciling our understanding. (And looking through the window (tomorrow) on this "scene" is our 4D friend. It's all getting a bit "Dali", isn't it | |||
"If someone doesn’t think Messi is the best footballer of all time" That’s because Pele was the greatest footballer of all time and he was black.  | |||
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"I would accept others views, if they weren’t talking bullshit all the time. "its all bullshit woody | |||
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"You’re not allowed an opinion on Fab unless it coincides with the leftist “establishment”. Stop rocking the boat!! " You’ve been on the Tory voter dominated politics page, right? It’s like a RW bin fire of people who want to make themselves the most unfuckable on the site. | |||
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"I would accept others views, if they weren’t talking bullshit all the time. its all bullshit woody "Narrator - That’s what I keep telling him!!! | |||
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"Depends if I agree with their views " Yes, it depends on that too | |||
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"Or are you stuck in your own ways or open for change? Did you know that open minded people can cope with others opinion that differs from theirs? Although nowadays I guess it is hard to accept other views. Personally I am open minded and I can listen to what others have to say on the subject and then from that I am willing to change my view if it sounds credible. I will say, well there is something init or perhaps you are totally wrong or there are elements on it that you are right on, but not on everything we dont agree on
I am happy to listen to the views of others and at times I will change my opinion if the evidence supports it ie politics but if the opinion is based more on feelings/beliefs ie religion then I will listen but that is all."Hi mischief, yes, those are also good points too | |||
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"I think it's getting harder for people in general to be open hearing others arguments. Even in our education system they talk about the value of differing opinions, freedom of expression and making your own mind. Yet the "wrong" personal opinion or deviation can land you in very hot water. Which doesn't help people with alternative veiws enter the ring of ideas to challenge them and thus helps fixate position. We all seem to want to find find a role to play and a side in this uncertain world (often this is unconscious). Its human nature, especially in times of uncertainty and huge change. So we sometimes, quite knowing filter and ignore other arguments. I was listening to a piece on how to tackle Russian propaganda and Russian public opinion. The same ideas of relevance for Western politics and tackling the Americans Alt-Right/Trumpism, the "progressive" left and other such movements came up. The main point was followers who are fixated into a role will not take in other opinions regardless of the validity/weight of information (however much they may claim they do). So forget about presenting well formulated arguments or trying to preach to them, they won't listen, simple as that. The only way to degrade their faith in their chosen role is to be far more subversive with your aproach. They used an example of the British fake German Radio stations that pose to be NAZI opinion and subversively poke at societal cracks such hypocrisy or corruption within the NAZI leadership. By posing as the voice of true NAZI's the subtlety undermine the NAZI movement not by preaching and telling followers their bad/wrong (generally people don't see themselves as the bad guys). They undermine it by presenting faults and failures in a way that will be listened to and which leads followers to question the system themselves and doth maths." Does anyone who commits acts of evil see themselves as the bad guy? Just interested in your take on that because, I feel people get the idea that people like Hitler woke up in the morning, wringing his hands, twiddling his mustache and saying things like "I wonder what act of pure evil I can enact today!?" Like the villain in a cheesy 80s cartoon. I don't think anyone objectively bad sees themselves that way. Hitler for example, he didn't just think he was doing the right thing, he thought he was doing the ONLY thing. I guess it's easier to see people as self aware villains because it means we can see them that way without having to consider the tragic reality... given the right circumstances, anyone can be truly evil. | |||
"I think it's getting harder for people in general to be open hearing others arguments. Even in our education system they talk about the value of differing opinions, freedom of expression and making your own mind. Yet the "wrong" personal opinion or deviation can land you in very hot water. Which doesn't help people with alternative veiws enter the ring of ideas to challenge them and thus helps fixate position. We all seem to want to find find a role to play and a side in this uncertain world (often this is unconscious). Its human nature, especially in times of uncertainty and huge change. So we sometimes, quite knowing filter and ignore other arguments. I was listening to a piece on how to tackle Russian propaganda and Russian public opinion. The same ideas of relevance for Western politics and tackling the Americans Alt-Right/Trumpism, the "progressive" left and other such movements came up. The main point was followers who are fixated into a role will not take in other opinions regardless of the validity/weight of information (however much they may claim they do). So forget about presenting well formulated arguments or trying to preach to them, they won't listen, simple as that. The only way to degrade their faith in their chosen role is to be far more subversive with your aproach. They used an example of the British fake German Radio stations that pose to be NAZI opinion and subversively poke at societal cracks such hypocrisy or corruption within the NAZI leadership. By posing as the voice of true NAZI's the subtlety undermine the NAZI movement not by preaching and telling followers their bad/wrong (generally people don't see themselves as the bad guys). They undermine it by presenting faults and failures in a way that will be listened to and which leads followers to question the system themselves and doth maths. Does anyone who commits acts of evil see themselves as the bad guy? Just interested in your take on that because, I feel people get the idea that people like Hitler woke up in the morning, wringing his hands, twiddling his mustache and saying things like "I wonder what act of pure evil I can enact today!?" Like the villain in a cheesy 80s cartoon. I don't think anyone objectively bad sees themselves that way. Hitler for example, he didn't just think he was doing the right thing, he thought he was doing the ONLY thing. I guess it's easier to see people as self aware villains because it means we can see them that way without having to consider the tragic reality... given the right circumstances, anyone can be truly evil." And this is why when people are ideologically invested you can't simply preach to them a counter argument because they are the good guy (in their mindset) and will ignore it. So in reference to the question they will not take on ides counter to their ideology. Hence why to challenge such people you have to be more subversive to your aproach and have an understanding of where they are coming from (be able to put yourself in their shoes). Just telling them their bad and even presenting them with good evidence is a kin to banging your head on a brick wall. Which of course is very frustrating when weight of evidence and rationality clearly indicates they are wrong. Because as much as some like to say truth is subjective or project a post-truth world some things are clear as day right and wrong. So I think some people really struggle to understand how people can be so invested in a ideology thats clearly wrong. And this is why they often fail to challenge such ideology, especially when it is backed by a State and/or powerful media outlets. | |||
"Depends on the context, people are very flexible in their views in a lot of cases when it suits and who they are trying to impress. There is a politics forum but people try and force their own political view on others where ever there is social gathering. I would say judging by a lot of the threads, people have become far less open minded and willingness to accept others opinions and views. This is probably as the scene has become far more mainstream and lot more with their own agendas. Just my thoughts" Yes, you are right there, it also depends on the context, yes, they try it in the politics forum too, especially if you have a different view from the agendas like israel to name some of them | |||
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"Or are you stuck in your own ways or open for change? Did you know that open minded people can cope with others opinion that differs from theirs? Although nowadays I guess it is hard to accept other views. Personally I am open minded and I can listen to what others have to say on the subject and then from that I am willing to change my view if it sounds credible. I will say, well there is something init or perhaps you are totally wrong or there are elements on it that you are right on, but not on everything we dont agree on "Shag 
I agree with having a shag you might disagree | |||
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"Or are you stuck in your own ways or open for change? Did you know that open minded people can cope with others opinion that differs from theirs? Although nowadays I guess it is hard to accept other views. Personally I am open minded and I can listen to what others have to say on the subject and then from that I am willing to change my view if it sounds credible. I will say, well there is something init or perhaps you are totally wrong or there are elements on it that you are right on, but not on everything we dont agree on
Shag
I agree with having a shag you might disagree "Hi becs, yes, you are right there or agree with it | |||
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"I like to disagree, it means is a really interesting and challenging conversation. But tbh, if we disagree deeply, on a significant topic, I would prefer not to waste my time in an annoying and fruitless discussion. Too old for that. " 👵🏻 | |||
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"Or are you stuck in your own ways or open for change? Did you know that open minded people can cope with others opinion that differs from theirs? Although nowadays I guess it is hard to accept other views. Personally I am open minded and I can listen to what others have to say on the subject and then from that I am willing to change my view if it sounds credible. I will say, well there is something init or perhaps you are totally wrong or there are elements on it that you are right on, but not on everything we dont agree on "No, because everyone else are always wrong. | |||
