FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Conditioning
Conditioning
Jump to: Newest in thread
Does anyone else struggle with correct pronouns for people in a social setting?
My brain wants to use he/she as a default, and I absolutely dont want to upset them, but its so easy to slip up?
(I was reading the Sam Smith thread and didn't want to derail it)
I am a mother and am teaching my child to be open and inclusive, so how do I keep it together because I get all flustered, which makes me more likely to mess up!  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"No, people can’t tell me how to think. I don’t however deliberately go out of my way to offend. "
This. If someone tells me no I wish to be referred to as something else I’ll make a conscious effort to do that. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I spend more time with kinksters than swingers and it's more normalised to give your pronouns if you arent as him/her as your appearance suggests. You can use she/he happily as people will give their pronouns if necessary. Using they/them might confuse the child thinking you mean multiple people, not 1, depending on their age. Lovely of you to be parenting like this x |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
 |
By *aggonerMan
over a year ago
for a penny |
Fortunately for me I don’t know anyone first hand because I wouldn’t know how to handle it. But surely it doesn’t present a problem in face to face encounters?
Is there anyone who objects to being called “You” ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *otSoPoshWoman
over a year ago
In a ball gown because that's how we roll in N. Devon |
No. Because all you can do is your best with the information you have.
If someone is presenting as (for example) female, I would use she/her... and if I was wrong I'd apologise. If that person got arsey about it, that's on them.
I am more than happy to use whatever pronouns, name, etc someone wants me to, to refer to them, but if I don't know what they are I'm going to make an assumption based on what my world view and experience tells me. I'm sorry if that's not what the world wants me to do.
And as far as I can see it, it would be no different than me having been introduced to "Tom", and calling him "Todd" the next time I saw him. My memory sucks, but I'll apologise when corrected and endeavour not to make the mistake again. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"No. Because all you can do is your best with the information you have.
If someone is presenting as (for example) female, I would use she/her... and if I was wrong I'd apologise. If that person got arsey about it, that's on them.
I am more than happy to use whatever pronouns, name, etc someone wants me to, to refer to them, but if I don't know what they are I'm going to make an assumption based on what my world view and experience tells me. I'm sorry if that's not what the world wants me to do.
And as far as I can see it, it would be no different than me having been introduced to "Tom", and calling him "Todd" the next time I saw him. My memory sucks, but I'll apologise when corrected and endeavour not to make the mistake again."
This is basically how I feel. Simple mistakes will happen but I will try to call people what they want to be called.
I think it’s similar to when someone gets married and takes their partners surname. It’ll take a bit of getting used to but it’s no inconvenience for me to change what I call them. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Try using “they” instead of she and he in general. That tends to help me.
I wouldn’t worry so much though. I have quite a few transgender and non-binary friends. The effort is what matters to them! I slip up and just immediately correct myself. You’re human, you’ll make mistakes. And you’re retraining yourself to speak in a manner you weren’t taught growing up! That’s hard!
Your wish to be open and considerate of others comfort speaks volumes for who you are! X |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I don't think anyone NB/trans will mind if they can see you are trying. Deliberately deadnaming and continuing to ignore pronouns after you've been reminded is an arsehole move. I've become much better at it as my daughter has several NB and trans friends. It's such a small thing to do to make someone feel included.
J |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *otSoPoshWoman
over a year ago
In a ball gown because that's how we roll in N. Devon |
Also, even if you get flustered and slip up, the midget will learn from the apology and correction. It may well lead onto explanations of why the different pronouns or whatever, but hell woman, you got this.
Your crotch goblin is a good kid and you've done grand so far. This is just another experience to experience. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"No. Because all you can do is your best with the information you have.
If someone is presenting as (for example) female, I would use she/her... and if I was wrong I'd apologise. If that person got arsey about it, that's on them.
I am more than happy to use whatever pronouns, name, etc someone wants me to, to refer to them, but if I don't know what they are I'm going to make an assumption based on what my world view and experience tells me. I'm sorry if that's not what the world wants me to do.
And as far as I can see it, it would be no different than me having been introduced to "Tom", and calling him "Todd" the next time I saw him. My memory sucks, but I'll apologise when corrected and endeavour not to make the mistake again."
Yeah I think this is totally acceptable and what I’d do too. Never come across anybody outside of fab where it’s happened yet though. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"No. Because all you can do is your best with the information you have.
If someone is presenting as (for example) female, I would use she/her... and if I was wrong I'd apologise. If that person got arsey about it, that's on them.
I am more than happy to use whatever pronouns, name, etc someone wants me to, to refer to them, but if I don't know what they are I'm going to make an assumption based on what my world view and experience tells me. I'm sorry if that's not what the world wants me to do.
And as far as I can see it, it would be no different than me having been introduced to "Tom", and calling him "Todd" the next time I saw him. My memory sucks, but I'll apologise when corrected and endeavour not to make the mistake again.
This is basically how I feel. Simple mistakes will happen but I will try to call people what they want to be called.
I think it’s similar to when someone gets married and takes their partners surname. It’ll take a bit of getting used to but it’s no inconvenience for me to change what I call them."
I didn't take my ex's name, and yeah.
"Mrs Jones..."
"Actually it's Ms Smith"
Fine.
People continuing to call me Mrs Jones after I gently told them it wasn't grew increasingly irritating. Particularly when it was Mrs Adam Jones rather than even giving me my own name. Do I look like an Adam?
(Obviously not real names) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I don't struggle with pronouns. Unless someone tells me how they want to be referred to I use him/her/they or if I know it, their name.
I think its possible to be over cautious. I'm if the opinion that I'm not setting out to offend or insult and it's possible I'll make mistakes but I believe the onus is on all of us to make allowances for each other. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"No. Because all you can do is your best with the information you have.
If someone is presenting as (for example) female, I would use she/her... and if I was wrong I'd apologise. If that person got arsey about it, that's on them.
I am more than happy to use whatever pronouns, name, etc someone wants me to, to refer to them, but if I don't know what they are I'm going to make an assumption based on what my world view and experience tells me. I'm sorry if that's not what the world wants me to do.
And as far as I can see it, it would be no different than me having been introduced to "Tom", and calling him "Todd" the next time I saw him. My memory sucks, but I'll apologise when corrected and endeavour not to make the mistake again.
This is basically how I feel. Simple mistakes will happen but I will try to call people what they want to be called.
I think it’s similar to when someone gets married and takes their partners surname. It’ll take a bit of getting used to but it’s no inconvenience for me to change what I call them.
I didn't take my ex's name, and yeah.
"Mrs Jones..."
"Actually it's Ms Smith"
Fine.
People continuing to call me Mrs Jones after I gently told them it wasn't grew increasingly irritating. Particularly when it was Mrs Adam Jones rather than even giving me my own name. Do I look like an Adam?
(Obviously not real names)"
Shame. I quite liked the idea of you being Adam Smith.
I used this example because my teacher got married halfway through a school year when I was around 13. A group of kids managed to change what they called her so I’m sure adults can do the same for Sam Smith. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"No. Because all you can do is your best with the information you have.
If someone is presenting as (for example) female, I would use she/her... and if I was wrong I'd apologise. If that person got arsey about it, that's on them.
I am more than happy to use whatever pronouns, name, etc someone wants me to, to refer to them, but if I don't know what they are I'm going to make an assumption based on what my world view and experience tells me. I'm sorry if that's not what the world wants me to do.
And as far as I can see it, it would be no different than me having been introduced to "Tom", and calling him "Todd" the next time I saw him. My memory sucks, but I'll apologise when corrected and endeavour not to make the mistake again.
This is basically how I feel. Simple mistakes will happen but I will try to call people what they want to be called.
I think it’s similar to when someone gets married and takes their partners surname. It’ll take a bit of getting used to but it’s no inconvenience for me to change what I call them.
I didn't take my ex's name, and yeah.
"Mrs Jones..."
"Actually it's Ms Smith"
Fine.
People continuing to call me Mrs Jones after I gently told them it wasn't grew increasingly irritating. Particularly when it was Mrs Adam Jones rather than even giving me my own name. Do I look like an Adam?
(Obviously not real names)
Shame. I quite liked the idea of you being Adam Smith.
I used this example because my teacher got married halfway through a school year when I was around 13. A group of kids managed to change what they called her so I’m sure adults can do the same for Sam Smith."
I'm sure people can. Unfortunately a lot of people don't want to because it's become a bloody culture war. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago
Dubai & Nottingham |
"Does anyone else struggle with correct pronouns for people in a social setting?
My brain wants to use he/she as a default, and I absolutely dont want to upset them, but its so easy to slip up?
(I was reading the Sam Smith thread and didn't want to derail it)
I am a mother and am teaching my child to be open and inclusive, so how do I keep it together because I get all flustered, which makes me more likely to mess up! "
It must be so tough for you.
As a parent I took my kids to Eastern Europe to work on youth camps helping anti child sex trafficking to teach them about the real world and real issues . But yeah 2023 UK has its own challenges |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"No. If I'm polite, I'll take the correction and it'll all be fine.
Most people recognise genuine good faith, and it's bad faith actors who make this a big deal."
Agreed. Also agree with Cal&Nita that we really don't use pronouns when talking directly to people's faces, so it shouldn't be such an issue in a face to face social setting.
If in doubt, use the person's name. E.g. "have you seen X", rather than "have you seen him", or use non-gendering features if you don't know the name, e.g. "who was the very tall, slim person with bright purple hair, do you have their name?" |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *eliusMan
over a year ago
Henlow |
Nope, no struggle at all. You have a name I use it, if you have a sensibility that requires I refer to you in some alternative pronoun that grates with how I learned and use the English, then we pass in different directions. No struggle at all. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Does anyone else struggle with correct pronouns for people in a social setting?
My brain wants to use he/she as a default, and I absolutely dont want to upset them, but its so easy to slip up?
(I was reading the Sam Smith thread and didn't want to derail it)
I am a mother and am teaching my child to be open and inclusive, so how do I keep it together because I get all flustered, which makes me more likely to mess up!
It must be so tough for you.
As a parent I took my kids to Eastern Europe to work on youth camps helping anti child sex trafficking to teach them about the real world and real issues . But yeah 2023 UK has its own challenges"
Is there no sex trafficking here in the UK? Where are the Eastern European people being trafficked to? I'm sure they are not being abused here in Britain..... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Does anyone else struggle with correct pronouns for people in a social setting?
My brain wants to use he/she as a default, and I absolutely dont want to upset them, but its so easy to slip up?
(I was reading the Sam Smith thread and didn't want to derail it)
I am a mother and am teaching my child to be open and inclusive, so how do I keep it together because I get all flustered, which makes me more likely to mess up!
It must be so tough for you.
As a parent I took my kids to Eastern Europe to work on youth camps helping anti child sex trafficking to teach them about the real world and real issues . But yeah 2023 UK has its own challenges"
Wow.  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *rder66Man
over a year ago
Tatooine |
"No. Because all you can do is your best with the information you have.
If someone is presenting as (for example) female, I would use she/her... and if I was wrong I'd apologise. If that person got arsey about it, that's on them.
I am more than happy to use whatever pronouns, name, etc someone wants me to, to refer to them, but if I don't know what they are I'm going to make an assumption based on what my world view and experience tells me. I'm sorry if that's not what the world wants me to do.
And as far as I can see it, it would be no different than me having been introduced to "Tom", and calling him "Todd" the next time I saw him. My memory sucks, but I'll apologise when corrected and endeavour not to make the mistake again."
Totaly agree. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Does anyone else struggle with correct pronouns for people in a social setting?
My brain wants to use he/she as a default, and I absolutely dont want to upset them, but its so easy to slip up?
(I was reading the Sam Smith thread and didn't want to derail it)
I am a mother and am teaching my child to be open and inclusive, so how do I keep it together because I get all flustered, which makes me more likely to mess up!
It must be so tough for you.
As a parent I took my kids to Eastern Europe to work on youth camps helping anti child sex trafficking to teach them about the real world and real issues . But yeah 2023 UK has its own challenges"
Well that's nothing, some people exist in some other place who had to walk uphill both ways in the sweltering snow while dying of HIV and Ebola at the same time. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Nope, no struggle at all. You have a name I use it, if you have a sensibility that requires I refer to you in some alternative pronoun that grates with how I learned and use the English, then we pass in different directions. No struggle at all."
This ^ . Saved me typing something to the same effect myself. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Does anyone else struggle with correct pronouns for people in a social setting?
My brain wants to use he/she as a default, and I absolutely dont want to upset them, but its so easy to slip up?
(I was reading the Sam Smith thread and didn't want to derail it)
I am a mother and am teaching my child to be open and inclusive, so how do I keep it together because I get all flustered, which makes me more likely to mess up!
It must be so tough for you.
As a parent I took my kids to Eastern Europe to work on youth camps helping anti child sex trafficking to teach them about the real world and real issues . But yeah 2023 UK has its own challenges
Well that's nothing, some people exist in some other place who had to walk uphill both ways in the sweltering snow while dying of HIV and Ebola at the same time."
He was probably there |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Mostly we can tell the difference between when someone is trying but occasionally makes a slip, and when someone is being an arsehole. It's no different than other areas of discourse.
Also, just because someone is gender variant it doesn't automatically make them into a good person or a bad person. It's just one more aspect of personality. It is worth remembering though that in many cases gender variant individuals may have been on the receiving end of a lot of nastiness from society, and may have become hypersensitive to abuse. Hence sometimes it might seem that a gender variant individual may over react to an accidental minor error in being addressed, but actually they are responding to years of persistent misgendering from others.
And yes, sometimes it can just be that some of us are feeling arsey and looking for an excuse to be offended. Much like every other group of people. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Does anyone else struggle with correct pronouns for people in a social setting?
My brain wants to use he/she as a default, and I absolutely dont want to upset them, but its so easy to slip up?
(I was reading the Sam Smith thread and didn't want to derail it)
I am a mother and am teaching my child to be open and inclusive, so how do I keep it together because I get all flustered, which makes me more likely to mess up! "
Just do your own thing and if the people are offended by it they should call it out and accept an apology which will undoubtedly come from you as this thread clearly shows that you care!! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Does anyone else struggle with correct pronouns for people in a social setting?
My brain wants to use he/she as a default, and I absolutely dont want to upset them, but its so easy to slip up?
(I was reading the Sam Smith thread and didn't want to derail it)
I am a mother and am teaching my child to be open and inclusive, so how do I keep it together because I get all flustered, which makes me more likely to mess up!
Just do your own thing and if the people are offended by it they should call it out and accept an apology which will undoubtedly come from you as this thread clearly shows that you care!!"
Also children are far better equipped to navigate the world that they grow up in than their parents simply because what's unusual to us is normal to them |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Does anyone else struggle with correct pronouns for people in a social setting?
My brain wants to use he/she as a default, and I absolutely dont want to upset them, but its so easy to slip up?
(I was reading the Sam Smith thread and didn't want to derail it)
I am a mother and am teaching my child to be open and inclusive, so how do I keep it together because I get all flustered, which makes me more likely to mess up!
Just do your own thing and if the people are offended by it they should call it out and accept an apology which will undoubtedly come from you as this thread clearly shows that you care!!
Also children are far better equipped to navigate the world that they grow up in than their parents simply because what's unusual to us is normal to them"
This is very true. My daughter has a friend with a trans father. I expected questions. I got no questions. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
My dad is going to be having dinner with a guy who has a husband. He's finding that difficult to understand I think being asked to use a different pronoun would make his head explode  .
The plus side to all this is that many more people now know what a pronoun is |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Does anyone else struggle with correct pronouns for people in a social setting?
My brain wants to use he/she as a default, and I absolutely dont want to upset them, but its so easy to slip up?
(I was reading the Sam Smith thread and didn't want to derail it)
I am a mother and am teaching my child to be open and inclusive, so how do I keep it together because I get all flustered, which makes me more likely to mess up!
Just do your own thing and if the people are offended by it they should call it out and accept an apology which will undoubtedly come from you as this thread clearly shows that you care!!
Also children are far better equipped to navigate the world that they grow up in than their parents simply because what's unusual to us is normal to them
This is very true. My daughter has a friend with a trans father. I expected questions. I got no questions. "
There are several children in our daughter's school/class who have same sex parents or who present in clothing that are typically associated with a different gender to their observed one. Our daughter doesn't care one jot and very much enjoyed choosing dresses with a boy from her class. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Does anyone else struggle with correct pronouns for people in a social setting?
My brain wants to use he/she as a default, and I absolutely dont want to upset them, but its so easy to slip up?
(I was reading the Sam Smith thread and didn't want to derail it)
I am a mother and am teaching my child to be open and inclusive, so how do I keep it together because I get all flustered, which makes me more likely to mess up!
Just do your own thing and if the people are offended by it they should call it out and accept an apology which will undoubtedly come from you as this thread clearly shows that you care!!
Also children are far better equipped to navigate the world that they grow up in than their parents simply because what's unusual to us is normal to them
This is very true. My daughter has a friend with a trans father. I expected questions. I got no questions.
There are several children in our daughter's school/class who have same sex parents or who present in clothing that are typically associated with a different gender to their observed one. Our daughter doesn't care one jot and very much enjoyed choosing dresses with a boy from her class. "
Same. Mine doesn’t either. And I like that |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Does anyone else struggle with correct pronouns for people in a social setting?
My brain wants to use he/she as a default, and I absolutely dont want to upset them, but its so easy to slip up?
(I was reading the Sam Smith thread and didn't want to derail it)
I am a mother and am teaching my child to be open and inclusive, so how do I keep it together because I get all flustered, which makes me more likely to mess up!
Just do your own thing and if the people are offended by it they should call it out and accept an apology which will undoubtedly come from you as this thread clearly shows that you care!!
Also children are far better equipped to navigate the world that they grow up in than their parents simply because what's unusual to us is normal to them
This is very true. My daughter has a friend with a trans father. I expected questions. I got no questions. "
Yep. I remember when I was 9 asking my mum why my friend's mum was Miss not Mrs. Mum explained to me that sometimes women with children weren't married, this came as something of a surprise to me. . Our kids in the other hand found it quite normal |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I've never had to struggle because I don't know anyone who is openly gay or non binary.
If I found myself mid conversation I can only use the information available to me.
I would never intend to offend but anyone taking offence straight away without making me aware beforehand really needs to give their head a wobble. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"My dad is going to be having dinner with a guy who has a husband. He's finding that difficult to understand I think being asked to use a different pronoun would make his head explode .
The plus side to all this is that many more people now know what a pronoun is "
The downside is the people who want to ban pronouns.
I mean, people can stop using them if they really want to... They might find that inconvenient though?
(I don't mean pronouns like respecting other people. They should go all in. No more pronouns for you and have fun with communicating anything ) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Does anyone else struggle with correct pronouns for people in a social setting?
My brain wants to use he/she as a default, and I absolutely dont want to upset them, but its so easy to slip up?
(I was reading the Sam Smith thread and didn't want to derail it)
I am a mother and am teaching my child to be open and inclusive, so how do I keep it together because I get all flustered, which makes me more likely to mess up!
Just do your own thing and if the people are offended by it they should call it out and accept an apology which will undoubtedly come from you as this thread clearly shows that you care!!
Also children are far better equipped to navigate the world that they grow up in than their parents simply because what's unusual to us is normal to them
This is very true. My daughter has a friend with a trans father. I expected questions. I got no questions.
Yep. I remember when I was 9 asking my mum why my friend's mum was Miss not Mrs. Mum explained to me that sometimes women with children weren't married, this came as something of a surprise to me. . Our kids in the other hand found it quite normal"
One of the mothers who volunteered at my primary school to play piano went on long diatribes about "Ms" and how feminists were ruining everything. I'm not sure I even asked my parents wtf that was about but I remember wondering what her problem was. (I had not otherwise been exposed to anything like that) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Does anyone else struggle with correct pronouns for people in a social setting?
My brain wants to use he/she as a default, and I absolutely dont want to upset them, but its so easy to slip up?
(I was reading the Sam Smith thread and didn't want to derail it)
I am a mother and am teaching my child to be open and inclusive, so how do I keep it together because I get all flustered, which makes me more likely to mess up!
Just do your own thing and if the people are offended by it they should call it out and accept an apology which will undoubtedly come from you as this thread clearly shows that you care!!
Also children are far better equipped to navigate the world that they grow up in than their parents simply because what's unusual to us is normal to them"
Yes, they are.
My best friend has an stepchild who is non binary so they are quite close to us, in terms of seeing them socially.
I grew up with a bigoted stepfather who was 'ist' about just about anything.
It sent me the other way, after lots of heated arguements, I couldn't wait to get away. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
