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If I took you to a posh restaurant….
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…Would you be able to correctly identify all the different cutlery (salad fork, fish fork, dinner fork etc) and do you know the accepted order of placement?
I’m presuming that picking up and eating the food with my hands is a no no, right?
In fact….probably best not to accept my offer of coming to the posh restaurant with me after all… (and it will save me a few bob to)
Anyhoo good folks: Formal dining; Should we all learn this cultured art or else is it but an example of pretentious cuntery?
You decide  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yes but not from eating in them but from being a silver service Waitress years ago.... I guess I could hold my own if I went to a fancy restaurant. But it isn't somewhere I choose to go |
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By *eliWoman
over a year ago
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Pretentious cuntery. 
I don't know, it's nice to have those old traditions isn't it? It's almost ritualistic, a ceremony of gastronomy in a sense. I'm happy eating in various types of restaurants. I don't mind wanky or more down to earth - wanky doesn't mean better or shite. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Fuck that shit man. I wouldn't pick my nose or fart....well I wouldn't pick my nose but that's about as cultured as you'd get from me.
Obvs not pressuming you'd ask me to a posh restaurant anyway like |
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No idea. I know you're supposed to work from the outside set of cutlery, inwards but I couldn't pick out a particular kind of fork
Definitely a bit pretentious though, a fork is a fork is a fork 
LvM |
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"I believe you work from inside out, but tbh I would use what the fuck I like. As some people like to eat desserts with a fork, others with a spoon."
You start cutlery from the outside working inwards
If there are 3 glasses (set laid out up and right of the cutlery)
Left is water middle red wine right white |
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Yea but not cos I’m posh, military brat plus silver service waitress at one point
Outside in, the wait staff should ensure only the cutlery you need for what you’ve ordered is before you.
Cutlery laid together on the plate handles pointing at you when you’ve finished, if you need a comfort break (loo) and haven’t finished your food lay the cutlery across the top right “corner” of the plate fork tines facing down.
It’s the glasses wrong foot me!
I think water glass is the one to the left of the glasses and the wine to the right it’s when port and all that malarkey is added I get confused! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yea but not cos I’m posh, military brat plus silver service waitress at one point
Outside in, the wait staff should ensure only the cutlery you need for what you’ve ordered is before you.
Cutlery laid together on the plate handles pointing at you when you’ve finished, if you need a comfort break (loo) and haven’t finished your food lay the cutlery across the top right “corner” of the plate fork tines facing down.
It’s the glasses wrong foot me!
I think water glass is the one to the left of the glasses and the wine to the right it’s when port and all that malarkey is added I get confused! "
Holy fuck there's a lot to remember |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I know they usually remove any you won't need after you order so that improves the odds
Saw a ridiculous article with a video of how to eat certain things like a sandwich and a burger with a knife & fork....
If I eat food from another culture I give their utensils a go, so if the fancy pants choose to serve less fancy dishes they really ought to dig in. Sure they can get a wee bowl of lemon water & a hot towel to wash the pleb off after  |
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"Yea but not cos I’m posh, military brat plus silver service waitress at one point
Outside in, the wait staff should ensure only the cutlery you need for what you’ve ordered is before you.
Cutlery laid together on the plate handles pointing at you when you’ve finished, if you need a comfort break (loo) and haven’t finished your food lay the cutlery across the top right “corner” of the plate fork tines facing down.
It’s the glasses wrong foot me!
I think water glass is the one to the left of the glasses and the wine to the right it’s when port and all that malarkey is added I get confused!
Holy fuck there's a lot to remember "
And that’s before you get onto speech and conversation etiquette! Lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I only know from doing silver service too. I'd probably be overcome with anxiety at being out of my natural environment and insist on joining the waiting on staff. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yea but not cos I’m posh, military brat plus silver service waitress at one point
Outside in, the wait staff should ensure only the cutlery you need for what you’ve ordered is before you.
Cutlery laid together on the plate handles pointing at you when you’ve finished, if you need a comfort break (loo) and haven’t finished your food lay the cutlery across the top right “corner” of the plate fork tines facing down.
It’s the glasses wrong foot me!
I think water glass is the one to the left of the glasses and the wine to the right it’s when port and all that malarkey is added I get confused!
Holy fuck there's a lot to remember
And that’s before you get onto speech and conversation etiquette! Lol "
Fuuuuuck that. I'll stick to eating alone |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I only know from doing silver service too. I'd probably be overcome with anxiety at being out of my natural environment and insist on joining the waiting on staff."
Shall we bugger off to the kebab shop? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I only know from doing silver service too. I'd probably be overcome with anxiety at being out of my natural environment and insist on joining the waiting on staff.
Shall we bugger off to the kebab shop? "
I think we'd better |
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A really posh restaurant wouldn't want you to feel uncomfortable so they'd make it easy for you by removing what you didn't need. I just go for outside working in. I was really thrown the first time a guy rocked up with a little dustpan and brush to remove the bread crumbs though |
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Yes!
Start from the outside and work your way in. Miss a set of cutlery if you miss a course (eg if you’re not a starter or dessert person) usually …. Starter, main, dessert but can also include a palate cleanser (sorbet) fish then main and dessert, plus cheese after that
Additional cutlery will be provided if you have a course which involves specific cutlery (eg snails etc)
It’s the glasses that confuse me! Red wine, white wine, water….. |
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"A really posh restaurant wouldn't want you to feel uncomfortable so they'd make it easy for you by removing what you didn't need. I just go for outside working in. I was really thrown the first time a guy rocked up with a little dustpan and brush to remove the bread crumbs though "
Most Michelin or 5* do that  or Harrods do too |
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Which way does the port go?
No who hands out the cigars?
You can only remove your jacket after the Queens toast and then smoke if you wish ( or could back then)
Ladies please vacate the room as the port arrives |
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Everybody is different and people enjoy different things. If I did not want to follow or enjoyed the etiquette of a very posh restaurant, then I would not go to one. Equally I would not go to a burger bar and then complain it was not posh enough for my liking. I like nice food and good relaxed atmosphere and that's mostly what would attract me to a restaurant these days. Doing the posh ones sometimes is also good for a different experience |
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"A really posh restaurant wouldn't want you to feel uncomfortable so they'd make it easy for you by removing what you didn't need. I just go for outside working in. I was really thrown the first time a guy rocked up with a little dustpan and brush to remove the bread crumbs though
Most Michelin or 5* do that or Harrods do too"
Yes. Every time we've been to a place like that the staff have been really nice and not at all patronising. |
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Thank you for your replies everyone
I must confess that I don’t visit posh restaurants myself on account that: 1) I’m tighter than a gnat’s arse and 2) I’m a fucking philistine.
For all of you who have been to one though, is it true that one will receive instant filthy looks if one asks for tomato ketchup?
I mean, what’s wrong with such a request eh?  |
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Yes I do know, as do my kids.
Oh, I love all of that faff in a fine dining establishment. It makes dressing for dinner all the more worthwhile.
The cutlery are there to aid, not alienate you, just work (mostly) from the outside.
Full sets of lobster cutlery/tools can be a little confusing if you're not used to them, though it's rare these days that a lobster isn't served dressed.
Different shaped glasses can change the flavour of wines, which is why the glass is often changed to match the wine served.
I'm equally happy eating pizza. It's the company that really matters.
C |
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"Yea but not cos I’m posh, military brat plus silver service waitress at one point
Outside in, the wait staff should ensure only the cutlery you need for what you’ve ordered is before you.
Cutlery laid together on the plate handles pointing at you when you’ve finished, if you need a comfort break (loo) and haven’t finished your food lay the cutlery across the top right “corner” of the plate fork tines facing down.
It’s the glasses wrong foot me!
I think water glass is the one to the left of the glasses and the wine to the right it’s when port and all that malarkey is added I get confused!
Holy fuck there's a lot to remember
And that’s before you get onto speech and conversation etiquette! Lol
Fuuuuuck that. I'll stick to eating alone "
No choice when your dads up for promotion! |
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"Yes I do know, as do my kids.
Oh, I love all of that faff in a fine dining establishment. It makes dressing for dinner all the more worthwhile.
The cutlery are there to aid, not alienate you, just work (mostly) from the outside.
Full sets of lobster cutlery/tools can be a little confusing if you're not used to them, though it's rare these days that a lobster isn't served dressed.
Different shaped glasses can change the flavour of wines, which is why the glass is often changed to match the wine served.
I'm equally happy eating pizza. It's the company that really matters.
C "
I was ridiculous excited recently to find borfeaux goblets I liked |
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"Yes I do know, as do my kids.
Oh, I love all of that faff in a fine dining establishment. It makes dressing for dinner all the more worthwhile.
The cutlery are there to aid, not alienate you, just work (mostly) from the outside.
Full sets of lobster cutlery/tools can be a little confusing if you're not used to them, though it's rare these days that a lobster isn't served dressed.
Different shaped glasses can change the flavour of wines, which is why the glass is often changed to match the wine served.
I'm equally happy eating pizza. It's the company that really matters.
C
I was ridiculous excited recently to find borfeaux goblets I liked "
Ffs Bordeaux |
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"…Would you be able to correctly identify all the different cutlery (salad fork, fish fork, dinner fork etc) and do you know the accepted order of placement?
I’m presuming that picking up and eating the food with my hands is a no no, right?
In fact….probably best not to accept my offer of coming to the posh restaurant with me after all… (and it will save me a few bob to)
Anyhoo good folks: Formal dining; Should we all learn this cultured art or else is it but an example of pretentious cuntery?
You decide "
Chippy!! |
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By *lue NarwhalMan
over a year ago
Iceland, but Aldi is closer.. |
Just go to a michelin starred restaurant and get the tasting menu..
They replace the cutlery for every course so you always have the correct cutlery for the course you are eating.
Saves any confusion or embarrassment while eating..
It won't prevent the embarrassment when you get the bill and involuntary shout "Holy fuck..how much! I thought I was just buying the gravadlax, not the fucking boat used to catch it!" |
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"Yes I do know, as do my kids.
Oh, I love all of that faff in a fine dining establishment. It makes dressing for dinner all the more worthwhile.
The cutlery are there to aid, not alienate you, just work (mostly) from the outside.
Full sets of lobster cutlery/tools can be a little confusing if you're not used to them, though it's rare these days that a lobster isn't served dressed.
Different shaped glasses can change the flavour of wines, which is why the glass is often changed to match the wine served.
I'm equally happy eating pizza. It's the company that really matters.
C "
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"Yes I do know, as do my kids.
Oh, I love all of that faff in a fine dining establishment. It makes dressing for dinner all the more worthwhile.
The cutlery are there to aid, not alienate you, just work (mostly) from the outside.
Full sets of lobster cutlery/tools can be a little confusing if you're not used to them, though it's rare these days that a lobster isn't served dressed.
Different shaped glasses can change the flavour of wines, which is why the glass is often changed to match the wine served.
I'm equally happy eating pizza. It's the company that really matters.
C
I was ridiculous excited recently to find borfeaux goblets I liked
Ffs Bordeaux "
I was just about to Google borfeaux, that's a new one on me
C |
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"Yes I do know, as do my kids.
Oh, I love all of that faff in a fine dining establishment. It makes dressing for dinner all the more worthwhile.
The cutlery are there to aid, not alienate you, just work (mostly) from the outside.
Full sets of lobster cutlery/tools can be a little confusing if you're not used to them, though it's rare these days that a lobster isn't served dressed.
Different shaped glasses can change the flavour of wines, which is why the glass is often changed to match the wine served.
I'm equally happy eating pizza. It's the company that really matters.
C
I was ridiculous excited recently to find borfeaux goblets I liked
Ffs Bordeaux
I was just about to Google borfeaux, that's a new one on me
C"
It’s a new one on me too! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Can't be bothered with all the cutlery. I can barely hold it together when my chips are served in a mini bucket or worse a shopping trolley. I ask the waiting staff to hold on, tip the chips on the plate and send back the bucket or trolley to the kitchen. |
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By *uzie69xTV/TS
over a year ago
Maidstone |
"…Would you be able to correctly identify all the different cutlery (salad fork, fish fork, dinner fork etc) and do you know the accepted order of placement?"
Of course darling... Shall I choose the wine? |
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I visited a garden centre restaurant a while back and ordered an all day breakfast.
The beans were served in a separate ceramic pot(!) I felt reet posh did I (whereupon I promptly emptied them all over my plate and mixed them in with the other assembled ingredients with my finger….and likely disgusted the gathered patrons at my clearly low tier social status) |
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"Fuck that shit man. I wouldn't pick my nose or fart....well I wouldn't pick my nose but that's about as cultured as you'd get from me.
Obvs not pressuming you'd ask me to a posh restaurant anyway like "
•
I'm going to smother you in live yoghurt. You'll thank me for giving you some culture. |
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"…Would you be able to correctly identify all the different cutlery (salad fork, fish fork, dinner fork etc) and do you know the accepted order of placement?
Of course darling... Shall I choose the wine?"
Lambrini for me please |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yep, there's the fork, knife, spoon, small fork, small spoon, small knife, sharp knife, bigger spoon, bigger fork |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yep, there's the fork, knife, spoon, small fork, small spoon, small knife, sharp knife, bigger spoon, bigger fork "
Smarty arse
Miss S x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yep, there's the fork, knife, spoon, small fork, small spoon, small knife, sharp knife, bigger spoon, bigger fork
Smarty arse
Miss S x"
It's what happens when you dine with the higher class |
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"Update: I’ve just looked up a formal dining diagram…
Five forks!!! 
What the fuck am I going to do with five fucking forks?! Is there a dartboard nearby or something?!  "
•
Forking leads to Spooning...?  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yep, there's the fork, knife, spoon, small fork, small spoon, small knife, sharp knife, bigger spoon, bigger fork
Smarty arse
Miss S x
It's what happens when you dine with the higher class "
Come on now, there's no fooling me we're both from Derby remember
Miss S x |
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"Update: I’ve just looked up a formal dining diagram…
Five forks!!!
What the fuck am I going to do with five fucking forks?! Is there a dartboard nearby or something?!
•
Forking leads to Spooning...? "
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yep, there's the fork, knife, spoon, small fork, small spoon, small knife, sharp knife, bigger spoon, bigger fork
Smarty arse
Miss S x
It's what happens when you dine with the higher class
Come on now, there's no fooling me we're both from Derby remember
Miss S x"
Ahhh shit... I mean, they're from another city. You wouldn't know them  |
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"Yes I do know, as do my kids.
Oh, I love all of that faff in a fine dining establishment. It makes dressing for dinner all the more worthwhile.
The cutlery are there to aid, not alienate you, just work (mostly) from the outside.
Full sets of lobster cutlery/tools can be a little confusing if you're not used to them, though it's rare these days that a lobster isn't served dressed.
Different shaped glasses can change the flavour of wines, which is why the glass is often changed to match the wine served.
I'm equally happy eating pizza. It's the company that really matters.
C
"
Mind you, I have been known to slam my elbows on the table and grab a chip or carrot with my fingers to pop in my mouth to wind people up.
By gum, they do cringe...
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Dare I mention finger bowls.
Really you go to good restaurants to eat tasty and enjoyable meals.
That said one of the most spectacular meals I ever had was when someone managed to make chips from the instant mashed potato in an army ration pack. |
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"Dare I mention finger bowls.
Really you go to good restaurants to eat tasty and enjoyable meals.
That said one of the most spectacular meals I ever had was when someone managed to make chips from the instant mashed potato in an army ration pack. "
I first encountered a finger bowl in a lovely Chinese Restaurant.
I actually thought it was a free drink initially. I mean, there were no accompanying instructions as to the actual intended purpose so it was surely forgivable (I subsequently told myself)
Luckily I was eating with a friend (a clearly more cultured friend than I as it fortuitously happened) who explained it to me.
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Yes, taught at a young age, ten onwards I seem to recall.
I had a proper shirt, tie and jacket. Black trousers, black shoes.
I remember it being a formal restaurant.
Sit up straight, no elbows on table. Speak when spoken to. Taught the order of cutlery.
As I've grown older, I've looked back on those times with great fondness and affection.
Went to a restaurant a few months ago. Shirt, tie, black trousers, black shoes. I did not wear a jacket as it was during the heatwave, but I did fret about it and wondered if the restaurant would let me in.
I needn't have worried.
It wasn't even semi-formal, Just casual.
I would dearly love to find a proper formal restaurant in Essex, but I realise that is a big ask.
The last formal restaurant I ate in wasn't in this country. It was a high-end establishment in New York. We had to book months in advance, and when we did arrive it was clear they knew their target market. It wasn't glitzy, it was refined.
Two and half hours later, we left having had quite an incredible dining experience, from the silver-service staff. It was glorious. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yes I know what’s what. And I only follow it because it makes sense rather than keeping up looking ‘posh’.
People worry too much, people take selfies in fine dining Resteraunts and nobody thinks anything of it, so I don’t think they care if you use the soup spoon for your desert. |
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By *ustBoWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in Co. Down |
Start at the outside and work inwards if I remember correctly (I haven't read the thread). In saying that though I would probably decline an invitation to anywhere that was like that as I would not feel comfortable.The one and only time I ever went to a posh restaurant was awful the staff were so arrogant it made the whole experience horrible and the food wasn't that great either. So no I would pass and just go to one of my favourite places where it's a lot more relaxed the food is delicious and the staff are nice. |
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By *ea monkeyMan
over a year ago
Manchester (he/him) |
I would yes.
I’ve worked in the service industry for decades and part of that was silver service.
Not only do I know which cutlery to use, I can tell you what they’re for, which glass is which and the correct etiquette.
Yes, I’m really fun |
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By *uzie69xTV/TS
over a year ago
Maidstone |
"I would yes.
I’ve worked in the service industry for decades and part of that was silver service.
Not only do I know which cutlery to use, I can tell you what they’re for, which glass is which and the correct etiquette.
Yes, I’m really fun"
For me, it's simply a case of acquiring the knowledge and using it should the opportunity arises.
I have been lucky to have been picked up by drivers of rich suitors who I then meet at restaurants with white table cloths. Being comfortable and looking confident in any environment is graceful to the host. |
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Yeah, worked as a waitress and have experience with silver service. Also dined in such establishments.
Posh though I'm unsure that it is, think it's a a nod to the past. The poshest people I know fed me ribs and lamb chops at their house and hands and fingers were used by everyone. |
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I would, yes. But I probably wouldn't like it as I don't like places that seem to go out of their way to make people feel uncomfortable.
Not every establishment catches your escargot so discreetly... |
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"Yeah, worked as a waitress and have experience with silver service. Also dined in such establishments.
Posh though I'm unsure that it is, think it's a a nod to the past. The poshest people I know fed me ribs and lamb chops at their house and hands and fingers were used by everyone. "
To be fair, on the bone meat which tastes delicious can only be enjoyed that way best in informal setting. You do of course need to make sure hands and fingers are very clean to start with |
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Yes I do know but as a rule the poshest restaurants don’t really give a fuck what you do. The most pretentious meals anyone could probably end up going to are in the officers mess of some of the older regiments of the British army or certain naval establishments.
If I go to a posh restaurant or to a black, or white tie do and someone points out to me that I am not using the correct etiquette, I should damn and blast the bounder for having the audacity of making public my error and not passing it by… which would be the correct way to behave  |
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"Yes, taught at a young age, ten onwards I seem to recall.
I had a proper shirt, tie and jacket. Black trousers, black shoes.
I remember it being a formal restaurant.
Sit up straight, no elbows on table. Speak when spoken to. Taught the order of cutlery.
As I've grown older, I've looked back on those times with great fondness and affection.
Went to a restaurant a few months ago. Shirt, tie, black trousers, black shoes. I did not wear a jacket as it was during the heatwave, but I did fret about it and wondered if the restaurant would let me in.
I needn't have worried.
It wasn't even semi-formal, Just casual.
I would dearly love to find a proper formal restaurant in Essex, but I realise that is a big ask.
The last formal restaurant I ate in wasn't in this country. It was a high-end establishment in New York. We had to book months in advance, and when we did arrive it was clear they knew their target market. It wasn't glitzy, it was refined.
Two and half hours later, we left having had quite an incredible dining experience, from the silver-service staff. It was glorious."
I think I was five or six. My parents went to posh banquets and occasionally had to drag the kids along...
So it was as you described.
Sit up straight, no elbows on table. Speak when spoken to. Taught the order of cutlery.
I still remember the rules to this day, although I love winding up people at the table by dropping the occasional deliberate Faux Pas, then going back to table manners which is deemed acceptable for the occasion.
I seem to notice certain rules have changed over the decades. At one time, the knife and fork was set at 12 O'clock to show that you had finished. It is more modern now to put your cutlery at 4 O'clock.
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"
I think I was five or six. My parents went to posh banquets and occasionally had to drag the kids along...
So it was as you described.
Sit up straight, no elbows on table. Speak when spoken to. Taught the order of cutlery.
I still remember the rules to this day, although I love winding up people at the table by dropping the occasional deliberate Faux Pas, then going back to table manners which is deemed acceptable for the occasion.
I seem to notice certain rules have changed over the decades. At one time, the knife and fork was set at 12 O'clock to show that you had finished. It is more modern now to put your cutlery at 4 O'clock.
"
I agree, the 4 O'clock setting does seem more prevalent these days and apparently trained serving staff are aware of it (as well as other cutlery positions).
Your quasi "faux pas" made me chuckle.
I looked up a list of faux pas, to see what was considered bad form these days.
Not sure I agree with the last one, since it could have deadly repercussions.
Top 35 | Worst restaurant faux pas
Clicking your fingers for the waiter’s attention
Talking with your mouth full
Being too loud and raucous
Wiping hands on the tablecloth
Blowing your nose in a napkin
Letting children come and go as they please from the table
Licking a knife
Letting children listen to videos on a phone
Texting at the table
Answering / making a phone call
Letting your children play with cutlery and condiments
Touching up make-up at the table
Asking for a toothpick and removing food from your teeth at the table
Placing your phone on the table next to you
Not leaving a tip
Blowing on hot food too loudly
Taking a picture of your meal
Not sharing a ‘sharing platter’ and eating more than your fair share
Asking for ketchup / mayo in a fine dining restaurant
Flirting with the waiter / waitress
Tucking your napkin in your collar
Holding a knife like a pencil
Scooping out the ice from your drink with your fingers
Holding a knife and fork in the wrong hands
Paying your exact share when splitting the bill
Going outside to smoke
Pouring white wine in a glass that was being used for red
Downing a drink as soon as it arrives
Using the wrong cutlery for the course
Making a signing gesture for the bill
Moving around chairs and tables to accommodate your party
Ordering a fussy meal (no chips, no dressing etc)
Mispronouncing the name of a dish
Asking for a knife and fork because you can’t use chopsticks
Asking if a meal is vegan, dairy free, gluten free etc |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Unfortunately I do know my cutlery and place setting, I was made to learn as well as flower arrangement by my Mother. It's something that I rebelled against and take great delight on using the wrong fork.
Saying that I do get a bit annoyed when I am giving a spoon it may desert with when clearly it should be a desert fork.
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I had to learn it all when I was a silver service waitress. Think I can still remember.
That said, I rarely dine in such places, any anyway, half the people that do, wouldn't know the correct order anyway. |
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Do it all at Christmas then there’s not enough room for the food!! 
Hath thou changed names again? I mean, I know my surname is pretty terrible an all but…. 
