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Pronouns....stop please
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"Alright Miss "Whilst he self-proclaimed his ignorance, I don’t think he’ll fall for that bait  | |||
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"The day has now been ruined by starting the thread off again "There's always got to be someone that does | |||
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"The day has now been ruined by starting the thread off again "You read the title of the thread and could have steered clear but you had to join it and comment, so perpetuating it. If people don’t like threads maybe they shouldn’t join in on it. Just a thought. | |||
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"Im gonna show my ignorance here but....if you want to be known by something different your just trying to prove your superior to someone who doesn't get it and you enjoy making that person feel stupid...if someone mis pronouns you just ignore it....be happy that you know who you are...most people don't care,they just tolerate your game,this is nothing against those but I find it strange that people get upset when wrongly referred to as miss or mr or him her them they....just identify as you...someone getting it wrong ruins 5 seconds of your day so just enjoy all the other seconds" The first 5 words are all that matter. | |||
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"The day has now been ruined by starting the thread off again
You read the title of the thread and could have steered clear but you had to join it and comment, so perpetuating it.
If people don’t like threads maybe they shouldn’t join in on it.
Just a thought. "I actually agree with what he said, after yesterday's just didn't need to be started again. Same as you didn't have to comment on my post so works both ways surely | |||
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"The day has now been ruined by starting the thread off again
You read the title of the thread and could have steered clear but you had to join it and comment, so perpetuating it.
If people don’t like threads maybe they shouldn’t join in on it.
Just a thought.
I actually agree with what he said, after yesterday's just didn't need to be started again.
Same as you didn't have to comment on my post so works both ways surely "I didn’t have too, but I was quite happy too | |||
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"The day has now been ruined by starting the thread off again "^^^^^^^ This  | |||
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"The day has now been ruined by starting the thread off again
You read the title of the thread and could have steered clear but you had to join it and comment, so perpetuating it.
If people don’t like threads maybe they shouldn’t join in on it.
Just a thought.
I actually agree with what he said, after yesterday's just didn't need to be started again.
Same as you didn't have to comment on my post so works both ways surely
I didn’t have too, but I was quite happy too "Exactly! Everyone's entitled too  | |||
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"You are speaking from my position of privilege. Your laziness is a minor inconvenience for you but when you do so repeatedly you create a precedent which becomes a major inconvenience for me, you create an environment where I’m not seen as a person. I ask you nicely human to human please treat me and those of differing pronouns with respect and humanity. "It doesn't take much to at least try to respect what makes others happy does it. | |||
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"You are speaking from my position of privilege. Your laziness is a minor inconvenience for you but when you do so repeatedly you create a precedent which becomes a major inconvenience for me, you create an environment where I’m not seen as a person. I ask you nicely human to human please treat me and those of differing pronouns with respect and humanity. "Not laziness its also anxiety inducing for people who have to be scolded if they get it wrong...whats wrong if someone calls you miss? They not doing it to be nasty...there are worse things in life then weather somebody mis pronouns you | |||
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"You are speaking from my position of privilege. Your laziness is a minor inconvenience for you but when you do so repeatedly you create a precedent which becomes a major inconvenience for me, you create an environment where I’m not seen as a person. I ask you nicely human to human please treat me and those of differing pronouns with respect and humanity.
Not laziness its also anxiety inducing for people who have to be scolded if they get it wrong...whats wrong if someone calls you miss? They not doing it to be nasty...there are worse things in life then weather somebody mis pronouns you"So you would be OK refered to as miss or Mrs? | |||
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"You are speaking from my position of privilege. Your laziness is a minor inconvenience for you but when you do so repeatedly you create a precedent which becomes a major inconvenience for me, you create an environment where I’m not seen as a person. I ask you nicely human to human please treat me and those of differing pronouns with respect and humanity.
Not laziness its also anxiety inducing for people who have to be scolded if they get it wrong...whats wrong if someone calls you miss? They not doing it to be nasty...there are worse things in life then weather somebody mis pronouns you"If it causes you anxiety, and you don't know how someone likes to be referred to, simply don't use a pronoun, or use they / them (which have existed as a singular for over 500 years). It's really easy to do. Just pretend you've not seen them, and so can't have assumed anything. In any case, I don't know anyone who has got upset by, or scolded anyone for misuse, except in the case where they have been using the wrong pronoun deliberately. | |||
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"You are speaking from my position of privilege. Your laziness is a minor inconvenience for you but when you do so repeatedly you create a precedent which becomes a major inconvenience for me, you create an environment where I’m not seen as a person. I ask you nicely human to human please treat me and those of differing pronouns with respect and humanity.
Not laziness its also anxiety inducing for people who have to be scolded if they get it wrong...whats wrong if someone calls you miss? They not doing it to be nasty...there are worse things in life then weather somebody mis pronouns you"Ok miss | |||
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"You are speaking from my position of privilege. Your laziness is a minor inconvenience for you but when you do so repeatedly you create a precedent which becomes a major inconvenience for me, you create an environment where I’m not seen as a person. I ask you nicely human to human please treat me and those of differing pronouns with respect and humanity.
Not laziness its also anxiety inducing for people who have to be scolded if they get it wrong...whats wrong if someone calls you miss? They not doing it to be nasty...there are worse things in life then weather somebody mis pronouns you
So you would be OK refered to as miss or Mrs?"My first name starts with an s so often called Mrs Smith and thats someone making a mistake but I dont speak to them to correct...just get on with my day | |||
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"Personally I think this all this defeat the object and create a greater divide. For example. My brothers work - they have a person who wishes to be referred to as they/them. One day they will appear dressed as a man, one day a woman. Every time someone genuinely makes a mistake they report them and that person gets spoken to. Now nobody bothers interacting with that person at all. They are now complaining they are not being included and nobody speaks to them. I have never in my 51 years met someone who wants to be referred to differently and to be honest I’m probably unlikely to in my circle of friends and family, but if I did I would refer to them how they wish. But do not start getting all offended with people who make mistakes after we have had a lifetime of he/she him/her. And as for the ze/zi thing I was reading last night I was totally lost. "
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"Personally I think this all this defeat the object and create a greater divide. For example. My brothers work - they have a person who wishes to be referred to as they/them. One day they will appear dressed as a man, one day a woman. Every time someone genuinely makes a mistake they report them and that person gets spoken to. Now nobody bothers interacting with that person at all. They are now complaining they are not being included and nobody speaks to them. I have never in my 51 years met someone who wants to be referred to differently and to be honest I’m probably unlikely to in my circle of friends and family, but if I did I would refer to them how they wish. But do not start getting all offended with people who make mistakes after we have had a lifetime of he/she him/her. And as for the ze/zi thing I was reading last night I was totally lost. " Why can't people use their name as well, a lot of people won't get so confused then as well. Whether it's a given name at birth or something else they prefer. | |||
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"Personally I think this all this defeat the object and create a greater divide. For example. My brothers work - they have a person who wishes to be referred to as they/them. One day they will appear dressed as a man, one day a woman. Every time someone genuinely makes a mistake they report them and that person gets spoken to. Now nobody bothers interacting with that person at all. They are now complaining they are not being included and nobody speaks to them. I have never in my 51 years met someone who wants to be referred to differently and to be honest I’m probably unlikely to in my circle of friends and family, but if I did I would refer to them how they wish. But do not start getting all offended with people who make mistakes after we have had a lifetime of he/she him/her. And as for the ze/zi thing I was reading last night I was totally lost. " I tend to agree with this tbf .. Obviously I'd respect what anyone wants to be called but it's just so confusing with all these different pronouns around and all the new ones I'd never heard of last night doesn't make someone ignorant, it's literally a case of not knowing these existed in the first place .. Just tell me your name surely that's easier and nobody can offend anyone | |||
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"Personally I think this all this defeat the object and create a greater divide. For example. My brothers work - they have a person who wishes to be referred to as they/them. One day they will appear dressed as a man, one day a woman. Every time someone genuinely makes a mistake they report them and that person gets spoken to. Now nobody bothers interacting with that person at all. They are now complaining they are not being included and nobody speaks to them. I have never in my 51 years met someone who wants to be referred to differently and to be honest I’m probably unlikely to in my circle of friends and family, but if I did I would refer to them how they wish. But do not start getting all offended with people who make mistakes after we have had a lifetime of he/she him/her. And as for the ze/zi thing I was reading last night I was totally lost. Why can't people use their name as well, a lot of people won't get so confused then as well. Whether it's a given name at birth or something else they prefer. " Yep | |||
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"I have a trans son (AFAB) and I’m in a lot of groups/forums for parents/family members of trans/non binary people with people from all over the world who are on these groups so covering a large demographic and the only time it’s ever a problem is if it’s done in malice and so in which case I’d feel annoyed about that to the majority of trans/non binary people I interact with genuinely understand that it’s not done on purpose." Yeah, this is very much my experience. I just think... I try to show people respect and call them what they want to be called. | |||
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"Personally I think this all this defeat the object and create a greater divide. For example. My brothers work - they have a person who wishes to be referred to as they/them. One day they will appear dressed as a man, one day a woman. Every time someone genuinely makes a mistake they report them and that person gets spoken to. Now nobody bothers interacting with that person at all. They are now complaining they are not being included and nobody speaks to them. I have never in my 51 years met someone who wants to be referred to differently and to be honest I’m probably unlikely to in my circle of friends and family, but if I did I would refer to them how they wish. But do not start getting all offended with people who make mistakes after we have had a lifetime of he/she him/her. And as for the ze/zi thing I was reading last night I was totally lost. " I can completely understand the divide this can cause. When I asked a genuine question last night, the reply quoted equality act 2010, protected characteristics and phrases like how would you like it if…..and suggestions of bullying. The truth is, that this behaviour would make me want to tread very carefully around the person and would probably avoid contact with them where possible for fear of accusations. Surely the object of inclusiveness isn’t to create a divide? | |||
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"Personally I think this all this defeat the object and create a greater divide. For example. My brothers work - they have a person who wishes to be referred to as they/them. One day they will appear dressed as a man, one day a woman. Every time someone genuinely makes a mistake they report them and that person gets spoken to. Now nobody bothers interacting with that person at all. They are now complaining they are not being included and nobody speaks to them. I have never in my 51 years met someone who wants to be referred to differently and to be honest I’m probably unlikely to in my circle of friends and family, but if I did I would refer to them how they wish. But do not start getting all offended with people who make mistakes after we have had a lifetime of he/she him/her. And as for the ze/zi thing I was reading last night I was totally lost. I can completely understand the divide this can cause. When I asked a genuine question last night, the reply quoted equality act 2010, protected characteristics and phrases like how would you like it if…..and suggestions of bullying. The truth is, that this behaviour would make me want to tread very carefully around the person and would probably avoid contact with them where possible for fear of accusations. Surely the object of inclusiveness isn’t to create a divide?" Me too. I purposely avoided that thread last night as did a lot of people. This will happen in real life too I fear. | |||
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"Asking a man if he's ok being referred to as Miss/Ms/Mrs is churlish. You're deliberately missing the point that if you present as a certain sex, you really shouldn't be upset if someone uses the pronouns for that sex if they've not had been told your preference. No offence is meant, but is often taken. Sometimes on behalf of others. Frank" Fair point. | |||
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"Asking a man if he's ok being referred to as Miss/Ms/Mrs is churlish. You're deliberately missing the point that if you present as a certain sex, you really shouldn't be upset if someone uses the pronouns for that sex if they've not had been told your preference. No offence is meant, but is often taken. Sometimes on behalf of others. Frank" I don’t think the problem is mislabelling, o think that people may become offended when after correction, they continue to refuse to use their preferred pronouns. | |||
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"Im gonna show my ignorance here but....if you want to be known by something different your just trying to prove your superior to someone who doesn't get it and you enjoy making that person feel stupid...if someone mis pronouns you just ignore it....be happy that you know who you are...most people don't care,they just tolerate your game,this is nothing against those but I find it strange that people get upset when wrongly referred to as miss or mr or him her them they....just identify as you...someone getting it wrong ruins 5 seconds of your day so just enjoy all the other seconds" It doesn’t just ruin 5 seconds. It is anxiety-inducing, takes minutes to days to bounce back from and harms my relationship with that person. I’ve never called someone out on getting my pronouns wrong, but doing it - or using very feminine compliments - will make me feel unsafe around you because it feels like you just see what you want to, not who I really am. Please get it right in future. It really does make a difference to people. | |||
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"Im gonna show my ignorance here but....if you want to be known by something different your just trying to prove your superior to someone who doesn't get it and you enjoy making that person feel stupid...if someone mis pronouns you just ignore it....be happy that you know who you are...most people don't care,they just tolerate your game,this is nothing against those but I find it strange that people get upset when wrongly referred to as miss or mr or him her them they....just identify as you...someone getting it wrong ruins 5 seconds of your day so just enjoy all the other seconds It doesn’t just ruin 5 seconds. It is anxiety-inducing, takes minutes to days to bounce back from and harms my relationship with that person. I’ve never called someone out on getting my pronouns wrong, but doing it - or using very feminine compliments - will make me feel unsafe around you because it feels like you just see what you want to, not who I really am. Please get it right in future. It really does make a difference to people. " I'm sorry you suffer so much. That's awful | |||
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"OP I don't have issue with the sentiment of your post. I agree, there needs to be a bit of give and take when it comes to pronouns and yeah, we might get it wrong sometimes. Your ignorance is shown by the statement "if you want to be known by something different your just trying to prove your superior to someone who doesn't get it and you enjoy making that person feel stupid". You have no idea what or how a person feels nor their motivations for changing pronouns, to tar everyone with the same brush is where issues lie. " This.. Inflammatory assumptions totally unnecessary to what is for some a valid point.. For this old git it's all a bit confusing but I try and stick with the idea of keeping an open mind and affording respect to others.. | |||
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"Personally I think this all this defeat the object and create a greater divide. For example. My brothers work - they have a person who wishes to be referred to as they/them. One day they will appear dressed as a man, one day a woman. Every time someone genuinely makes a mistake they report them and that person gets spoken to. Now nobody bothers interacting with that person at all. They are now complaining they are not being included and nobody speaks to them. I have never in my 51 years met someone who wants to be referred to differently and to be honest I’m probably unlikely to in my circle of friends and family, but if I did I would refer to them how they wish. But do not start getting all offended with people who make mistakes after we have had a lifetime of he/she him/her. And as for the ze/zi thing I was reading last night I was totally lost. " I pretty much agree with everything here. I don't want to actively avoid these discussions out of fear of getting something wrong but it's something you feel you have to do to avoid unintentionally offending someone but that's not good either because you want to try and be more open minded  | |||
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"I'll be totally honest here... I don't actually care what anyone's pronouns are, I also don't care what someone might refer to me as. (you can call that privileged if you want, again, I don't care) If you look female and I refer to you as one, but you identify as a him and get offended, that's your problem, not mine If you tell me up front what your pronoun is so I have no excuse to get it wrong, I probably won't ever refer to you as I won't be in a situation where you are present, not because I'm anti-pronoun types, I just won't have anything in common with you on any level to need to refer to you,we would move in different circles. The world has just become a place for people to get offended over the smallest of thing, identify as a post box if you want, just don't get offended when I call you a her because you're wearing a skirt and have DD breasts. I can't actually recall EVER being offended by anything someone has said to me, life's to short to give a fuck about what comes out of someone else's mouth. I look forward to joining your blocked user list "Can I take it you don’t have a job, friends, family or ever leave the house? | |||
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"Just call everyone “they” Sorted Anyone asking for more isn’t worth your time " She/her for me please. | |||
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"Just call everyone “they” Sorted Anyone asking for more isn’t worth your time She/her for me please." Me too please | |||
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"Just call everyone “they” Sorted Anyone asking for more isn’t worth your time She/her for me please. Me too please "Me three. I don’t want to be a “they” thanks | |||
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"Love it when people show their true colours so early on. Again, the forums are a great filter." | |||
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"Love it when people show their true colours so early on. Again, the forums are a great filter. " | |||
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"Just call everyone “they” Sorted Anyone asking for more isn’t worth your time She/her for me please. Me too please
Me three. I don’t want to be a “they” thanks "Not they for me either thank you, I'll take he/him or being called by my name but also having said this I'm not all that bothered | |||
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"Just call everyone “they” Sorted Anyone asking for more isn’t worth your time She/her for me please. Me too please
Me three. I don’t want to be a “they” thanks
Not they for me either thank you, I'll take he/him or being called by my name but also having said this I'm not all that bothered "Not being bothered, arsed or offended makes for a much happier life I find. Only my personal Opinion of course | |||
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"Just call everyone “they” Sorted Anyone asking for more isn’t worth your time She/her for me please. Me too please
Me three. I don’t want to be a “they” thanks
Not they for me either thank you, I'll take he/him or being called by my name but also having said this I'm not all that bothered
Not being bothered, arsed or offended makes for a much happier life I find. Only my personal
Opinion of course "I think so, what people say doesn't really change anything for me personally. Words only ever carry the weight the person receiving them gives to them | |||
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"Unless I know or have been informed to what pronoun a person (or other) wants to be referred to I will use the pronoun Oi or just use names, that way surely I can’t offend anyone or ruin anyones day/life/mental health (shrug) I am not ignorant to anyones wants or feelings but I am reluctant to offend "This completely | |||
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"Yeh I don’t really understand this stuff, I see he’s & she’s, everything else is just someones own delusion that they are not a he or she and are something else. If it makes them happy then crack on but I’m not indulging in it" Delusion? Indulging? You don't have to understand, you don't need to question anything. Just let people be. | |||
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"Personally I think this all this defeat the object and create a greater divide. For example. My brothers work - they have a person who wishes to be referred to as they/them. One day they will appear dressed as a man, one day a woman. Every time someone genuinely makes a mistake they report them and that person gets spoken to. Now nobody bothers interacting with that person at all. They are now complaining they are not being included and nobody speaks to them. I have never in my 51 years met someone who wants to be referred to differently and to be honest I’m probably unlikely to in my circle of friends and family, but if I did I would refer to them how they wish. But do not start getting all offended with people who make mistakes after we have had a lifetime of he/she him/her. And as for the ze/zi thing I was reading last night I was totally lost. " This! | |||
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"I’m fine with it all, diversity and inclusion is a great thing, the uk isn’t doing a bad job too. As long as you can tell jokes and laugh about yourself. The non-binary people I know have a sense of humour , not like some here I just think there’s a hardcore of awkward fuckers insisting on being offended so they can be victims. How about ‘awkward fucker’ as a new pronoun ? " | |||
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"Most trans people don’t get if you misgender us accidentally as most of the time it’s just a mistake…as look as you correct yourself and move on there’s no problem. Misgendering us on purpose is another story. I’ve had arguments where I’ve corrected people that I use they/them and they still insist on using she/her. That’s when it’s a problem. Even as a trans person I misgender people sometimes. I just apologise, correct myself and move on. It’s not a big deal. " Don’t get upset* | |||
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"I really can't begin to put myself in your frame of mind mate. We're on 2 totally different worlds. Why would you want to actively rant about people just being comfortable within themselves? " ^^^This | |||
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"It is interesting that nearly all the people on this thread declaring that pronouns don't matter are the same ones that have a shit fit every time they get referred to as cisgender." | |||
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"It is interesting that nearly all the people on this thread declaring that pronouns don't matter are the same ones that have a shit fit every time they get referred to as cisgender." Spot on | |||
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"It is interesting that nearly all the people on this thread declaring that pronouns don't matter are the same ones that have a shit fit every time they get referred to as cisgender." | |||
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"It is interesting that nearly all the people on this thread declaring that pronouns don't matter are the same ones that have a shit fit every time they get referred to as cisgender." Who? I’m on here quite a lot and not seen that. And you say “nearly all the people”? | |||
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Yes i said it! | |||
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"Most trans people don’t get if you misgender us accidentally as most of the time it’s just a mistake…as look as you correct yourself and move on there’s no problem. Misgendering us on purpose is another story. I’ve had arguments where I’ve corrected people that I use they/them and they still insist on using she/her. That’s when it’s a problem. Even as a trans person I misgender people sometimes. I just apologise, correct myself and move on. It’s not a big deal. " Absolutely this - it is a problem when it is used in a passive-aggressive way. Well actually it probably is not even passive-aggressive or micro-aggressive but just aggressive. | |||
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"Attention seekers who are not all there in the head Yes i said it!"You do realise you have pronouns too, yes? | |||
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"It is interesting that nearly all the people on this thread declaring that pronouns don't matter are the same ones that have a shit fit every time they get referred to as cisgender." Yup! Xx | |||
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"This is why a proper adult conversation cannot be had. Someone makes a made up comment and 4 people have agreed with it. " | |||
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"It is interesting that nearly all the people on this thread declaring that pronouns don't matter are the same ones that have a shit fit every time they get referred to as cisgender. Who? I’m on here quite a lot and not seen that. And you say “nearly all the people”? " I did say "nearly all" rather than "all". It's good to know though that you are perfectly happy being referred to as a cis woman, and not at all bothered what pronouns people use for you. | |||
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"This is why a proper adult conversation cannot be had. Someone makes a made up comment and 4 people have agreed with it. " So because five people disagree with you, you've declared that the conversation is improper? Sorry, but you're not the arbiter of all of this. It is something I have observed. It is clearly something Polly and others have observed. | |||
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"It is interesting that nearly all the people on this thread declaring that pronouns don't matter are the same ones that have a shit fit every time they get referred to as cisgender. Who? I’m on here quite a lot and not seen that. And you say “nearly all the people”? I did say "nearly all" rather than "all". It's good to know though that you are perfectly happy being referred to as a cis woman, and not at all bothered what pronouns people use for you." I’m a woman. But I’ve not had a shit fit about it. Whatever that is. | |||
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"It is interesting that nearly all the people on this thread declaring that pronouns don't matter are the same ones that have a shit fit every time they get referred to as cisgender. Who? I’m on here quite a lot and not seen that. And you say “nearly all the people”? I did say "nearly all" rather than "all". It's good to know though that you are perfectly happy being referred to as a cis woman, and not at all bothered what pronouns people use for you." I’ve personally never seen anyone get annoyed at being called cis Are you making this up to prove a point? Or have I missed something in the forum? | |||
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"This is why a proper adult conversation cannot be had. Someone makes a made up comment and 4 people have agreed with it. So because five people disagree with you, you've declared that the conversation is improper? Sorry, but you're not the arbiter of all of this. It is something I have observed. It is clearly something Polly and others have observed." Disagree with me? I haven’t had an opinion on the matter. I’d like to know who nearly the all the people on here who’ve had a shit fit because of being called cis gender are? | |||
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 . I dont understand the need for any of it. | |||
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"It is interesting that nearly all the people on this thread declaring that pronouns don't matter are the same ones that have a shit fit every time they get referred to as cisgender. Who? I’m on here quite a lot and not seen that. And you say “nearly all the people”? I did say "nearly all" rather than "all". It's good to know though that you are perfectly happy being referred to as a cis woman, and not at all bothered what pronouns people use for you. I’ve personally never seen anyone get annoyed at being called cis Are you making this up to prove a point? Or have I missed something in the forum? " Obviously missed it! Not just this thread but on many! X | |||
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"This is why a proper adult conversation cannot be had. Someone makes a made up comment and 4 people have agreed with it. So because five people disagree with you, you've declared that the conversation is improper? Sorry, but you're not the arbiter of all of this. It is something I have observed. It is clearly something Polly and others have observed. Disagree with me? I haven’t had an opinion on the matter. I’d like to know who nearly the all the people on here who’ve had a shit fit because of being called cis gender are? " "Someone makes a made up comment". Your words. You're saying what Polly says is false or imaginary. Because people agree with Polly, you believe that a "proper adult conversation" is impossible. Again, your words. You seem to have a problem with it, in any case. And you've both insisted on your pronouns, in this very thread, while indicating that others should be denied the same courtesy. Looks a bit like a shit fit to me. Things must be as you say and no one can disagree or else you pick up your bat and ball and go home, saying it's all invalid. | |||
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"Not meaning to be rude to anyone.. i just dont get any of it . I dont understand the need for any of it. "Until you are in the position of needing to understand or wanting to be recognised in a specific way you don't necessarily have to get it. You are lucky | |||
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"Not meaning to be rude to anyone.. i just dont get any of it . I dont understand the need for any of it.
Until you are in the position of needing to understand or wanting to be recognised in a specific way you don't necessarily have to get it. You are lucky"Absolutely this x | |||
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"Not meaning to be rude to anyone.. i just dont get any of it . I dont understand the need for any of it.
Until you are in the position of needing to understand or wanting to be recognised in a specific way you don't necessarily have to get it. You are lucky
Absolutely this x" | |||
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"Im gonna show my ignorance here but....if you want to be known by something different your just trying to prove your superior to someone who doesn't get it and you enjoy making that person feel stupid...if someone mis pronouns you just ignore it....be happy that you know who you are...most people don't care,they just tolerate your game,this is nothing against those but I find it strange that people get upset when wrongly referred to as miss or mr or him her them they....just identify as you...someone getting it wrong ruins 5 seconds of your day so just enjoy all the other seconds" I must admit... Often times especially in these threads, the debates to have a feeling of some folks airing their own perceived awareness as superior and talking down to others. I also don't understand why we need quite so many pronouns and why it is certain people are so offended when the one they choose is not used. As of everybody knows and it means enough to others. I wouldn't want to cause any offence to anyone but it has a feeling of making something unnecessarily complicated. Almost one of those.. If you know you know and if you don't know you are ignorant and I will take offence type conversations. | |||
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"I get called miss all the time when I work in schools. I feel belittled, offended, upset why .. wait - no I don’t. I couldn’t give a fuck. If you want to be referred to as ‘they’ and you tell me that, then I’ll make every effort to remember that, but if I forget so what, I get my children’s names wrong most of the time… I don’t think they/them etc are trying to be superior. I don’t believe any title makes anyone feel superior even Her Maj … ok not a good example. But you get my point superior it ain’t meant to be! So, tell me your pro nouns and I’ll accommodate you to the best of my cognitive abilities." Exactly. It's just basic fucking courtesy to try to treat people as they want to be treated. | |||
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"This is why a proper adult conversation cannot be had. Someone makes a made up comment and 4 people have agreed with it. So because five people disagree with you, you've declared that the conversation is improper? Sorry, but you're not the arbiter of all of this. It is something I have observed. It is clearly something Polly and others have observed. Disagree with me? I haven’t had an opinion on the matter. I’d like to know who nearly the all the people on here who’ve had a shit fit because of being called cis gender are? "Someone makes a made up comment". Your words. You're saying what Polly says is false or imaginary. Because people agree with Polly, you believe that a "proper adult conversation" is impossible. Again, your words. You seem to have a problem with it, in any case. And you've both insisted on your pronouns, in this very thread, while indicating that others should be denied the same courtesy. Looks a bit like a shit fit to me. Things must be as you say and no one can disagree or else you pick up your bat and ball and go home, saying it's all invalid." Because it is a made up comment made unnecessarily to create controversy. Where have I indicated anyone should be denied anything? | |||
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"It is interesting that nearly all the people on this thread declaring that pronouns don't matter are the same ones that have a shit fit every time they get referred to as cisgender." Is that because they just don't know? Not necessarily ignorant, more uneducated? I have no idea about most of this stuff to be honest | |||
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"I've personally seen people who have a preference for she/her and he/him on the forums. I've also seen several people correct someone who misgendered by mistake on a thread, which I felt was really uncalled for. Because they didn't agree with his point of view. Use of pronouns should not be weaponised by either side. And with regards to cis I only tend to use it when discussing trans and cis genders for clarity. I don't think I've ever seen anyone argue about it only that they have a preference to just be called woman. I struggle with these debates in all honesty. We're to respect the pronouns someone wants to use if they aren't the standard ones, which I totally agree with. Surely the same courtesy needs to be applied with other descriptors? " | |||
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"It is interesting that nearly all the people on this thread declaring that pronouns don't matter are the same ones that have a shit fit every time they get referred to as cisgender. Who? I’m on here quite a lot and not seen that. And you say “nearly all the people”? I did say "nearly all" rather than "all". It's good to know though that you are perfectly happy being referred to as a cis woman, and not at all bothered what pronouns people use for you. I’ve personally never seen anyone get annoyed at being called cis Are you making this up to prove a point? Or have I missed something in the forum? Obviously missed it! Not just this thread but on many! X" On many? And I’ve missed them all? I think it’s made up to prove a point. Just my experience. Never seen anyone on this forum lose their shot over being labelled cisgendered. Let alone “nearly everyone on this thread”. | |||
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"This is why a proper adult conversation cannot be had. Someone makes a made up comment and 4 people have agreed with it. So because five people disagree with you, you've declared that the conversation is improper? Sorry, but you're not the arbiter of all of this. It is something I have observed. It is clearly something Polly and others have observed. Disagree with me? I haven’t had an opinion on the matter. I’d like to know who nearly the all the people on here who’ve had a shit fit because of being called cis gender are? "Someone makes a made up comment". Your words. You're saying what Polly says is false or imaginary. Because people agree with Polly, you believe that a "proper adult conversation" is impossible. Again, your words. You seem to have a problem with it, in any case. And you've both insisted on your pronouns, in this very thread, while indicating that others should be denied the same courtesy. Looks a bit like a shit fit to me. Things must be as you say and no one can disagree or else you pick up your bat and ball and go home, saying it's all invalid. Because it is a made up comment made unnecessarily to create controversy. Where have I indicated anyone should be denied anything?" Are you calling Polly a liar? Are you saying that those indicating agreement are also lying? Maybe other people - including Polly, who is in fact trans and has real lived experience of this - have a different perspective to you? Maybe your perspective is not the sole objective truth? | |||
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"This is why a proper adult conversation cannot be had. Someone makes a made up comment and 4 people have agreed with it. So because five people disagree with you, you've declared that the conversation is improper? Sorry, but you're not the arbiter of all of this. It is something I have observed. It is clearly something Polly and others have observed. Disagree with me? I haven’t had an opinion on the matter. I’d like to know who nearly the all the people on here who’ve had a shit fit because of being called cis gender are? "Someone makes a made up comment". Your words. You're saying what Polly says is false or imaginary. Because people agree with Polly, you believe that a "proper adult conversation" is impossible. Again, your words. You seem to have a problem with it, in any case. And you've both insisted on your pronouns, in this very thread, while indicating that others should be denied the same courtesy. Looks a bit like a shit fit to me. Things must be as you say and no one can disagree or else you pick up your bat and ball and go home, saying it's all invalid." And that last paragraph I don’t even know how you came to that conclusion so I really can’t think of anything to say to it. | |||
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"I get called miss all the time when I work in schools. I feel belittled, offended, upset why .. wait - no I don’t. I couldn’t give a fuck. If you want to be referred to as ‘they’ and you tell me that, then I’ll make every effort to remember that, but if I forget so what, I get my children’s names wrong most of the time… I don’t think they/them etc are trying to be superior. I don’t believe any title makes anyone feel superior even Her Maj … ok not a good example. But you get my point superior it ain’t meant to be! So, tell me your pro nouns and I’ll accommodate you to the best of my cognitive abilities. Exactly. It's just basic fucking courtesy to try to treat people as they want to be treated. " Goes both ways....treat people who might get it wrong with some courtesy as well...if its a genuine mistake cant you just let it slide without correcting them to make them feel stupid and that they might have caused upset unknowingly | |||
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"I get called miss all the time when I work in schools. I feel belittled, offended, upset why .. wait - no I don’t. I couldn’t give a fuck. If you want to be referred to as ‘they’ and you tell me that, then I’ll make every effort to remember that, but if I forget so what, I get my children’s names wrong most of the time… I don’t think they/them etc are trying to be superior. I don’t believe any title makes anyone feel superior even Her Maj … ok not a good example. But you get my point superior it ain’t meant to be! So, tell me your pro nouns and I’ll accommodate you to the best of my cognitive abilities. Exactly. It's just basic fucking courtesy to try to treat people as they want to be treated. Goes both ways....treat people who might get it wrong with some courtesy as well...if its a genuine mistake cant you just let it slide without correcting them to make them feel stupid and that they might have caused upset unknowingly " No, it’s not up to the person who’s been upset to manage the emotions of someone else. The only thing that matters is replying with respect and educating someone. If someone is polite when they inform you of their pronouns and you get upset that is on you, it’s not on them to do. | |||
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"This is why a proper adult conversation cannot be had. Someone makes a made up comment and 4 people have agreed with it. So because five people disagree with you, you've declared that the conversation is improper? Sorry, but you're not the arbiter of all of this. It is something I have observed. It is clearly something Polly and others have observed. Disagree with me? I haven’t had an opinion on the matter. I’d like to know who nearly the all the people on here who’ve had a shit fit because of being called cis gender are? "Someone makes a made up comment". Your words. You're saying what Polly says is false or imaginary. Because people agree with Polly, you believe that a "proper adult conversation" is impossible. Again, your words. You seem to have a problem with it, in any case. And you've both insisted on your pronouns, in this very thread, while indicating that others should be denied the same courtesy. Looks a bit like a shit fit to me. Things must be as you say and no one can disagree or else you pick up your bat and ball and go home, saying it's all invalid. Because it is a made up comment made unnecessarily to create controversy. Where have I indicated anyone should be denied anything? Are you calling Polly a liar? Are you saying that those indicating agreement are also lying? Maybe other people - including Polly, who is in fact trans and has real lived experience of this - have a different perspective to you? Maybe your perspective is not the sole objective truth?" I know Polly is trans. I have met her. It’s not about perspectives. It’s about the “nearly all the people on the thread” comment. Perhaps you should re - read what I said. | |||
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"I get called miss all the time when I work in schools. I feel belittled, offended, upset why .. wait - no I don’t. I couldn’t give a fuck. If you want to be referred to as ‘they’ and you tell me that, then I’ll make every effort to remember that, but if I forget so what, I get my children’s names wrong most of the time… I don’t think they/them etc are trying to be superior. I don’t believe any title makes anyone feel superior even Her Maj … ok not a good example. But you get my point superior it ain’t meant to be! So, tell me your pro nouns and I’ll accommodate you to the best of my cognitive abilities. Exactly. It's just basic fucking courtesy to try to treat people as they want to be treated. Goes both ways....treat people who might get it wrong with some courtesy as well...if its a genuine mistake cant you just let it slide without correcting them to make them feel stupid and that they might have caused upset unknowingly " If you don't correct someone they'll keep getting it wrong. I personally would rather know. If you called someone Dave when their name is Steve, wouldn't you want them to tell you? It doesn't have to be a bigger deal than getting someone's name right. | |||
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"I get called miss all the time when I work in schools. I feel belittled, offended, upset why .. wait - no I don’t. I couldn’t give a fuck. If you want to be referred to as ‘they’ and you tell me that, then I’ll make every effort to remember that, but if I forget so what, I get my children’s names wrong most of the time… I don’t think they/them etc are trying to be superior. I don’t believe any title makes anyone feel superior even Her Maj … ok not a good example. But you get my point superior it ain’t meant to be! So, tell me your pro nouns and I’ll accommodate you to the best of my cognitive abilities. Exactly. It's just basic fucking courtesy to try to treat people as they want to be treated. Goes both ways....treat people who might get it wrong with some courtesy as well...if its a genuine mistake cant you just let it slide without correcting them to make them feel stupid and that they might have caused upset unknowingly " Of course! If a genuine mistake! I get that as a mother of a transgender daughter! Having been calling up the stairs Micheal for 18 years to suddenly calling Sophie your dinners ready! I slipped at times and said wrong name and felt awful enough! But it's when u get people doing it purposefully! Seen it lots in the forums x | |||
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"I get called miss all the time when I work in schools. I feel belittled, offended, upset why .. wait - no I don’t. I couldn’t give a fuck. If you want to be referred to as ‘they’ and you tell me that, then I’ll make every effort to remember that, but if I forget so what, I get my children’s names wrong most of the time… I don’t think they/them etc are trying to be superior. I don’t believe any title makes anyone feel superior even Her Maj … ok not a good example. But you get my point superior it ain’t meant to be! So, tell me your pro nouns and I’ll accommodate you to the best of my cognitive abilities. Exactly. It's just basic fucking courtesy to try to treat people as they want to be treated. Goes both ways....treat people who might get it wrong with some courtesy as well...if its a genuine mistake cant you just let it slide without correcting them to make them feel stupid and that they might have caused upset unknowingly Of course! If a genuine mistake! I get that as a mother of a transgender daughter! Having been calling up the stairs Micheal for 18 years to suddenly calling Sophie your dinners ready! I slipped at times and said wrong name and felt awful enough! But it's when u get people doing it purposefully! Seen it lots in the forums x" Doing it purposefully is just downright disrespectful and nasty. | |||
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"I get called miss all the time when I work in schools. I feel belittled, offended, upset why .. wait - no I don’t. I couldn’t give a fuck. If you want to be referred to as ‘they’ and you tell me that, then I’ll make every effort to remember that, but if I forget so what, I get my children’s names wrong most of the time… I don’t think they/them etc are trying to be superior. I don’t believe any title makes anyone feel superior even Her Maj … ok not a good example. But you get my point superior it ain’t meant to be! So, tell me your pro nouns and I’ll accommodate you to the best of my cognitive abilities. Exactly. It's just basic fucking courtesy to try to treat people as they want to be treated. Goes both ways....treat people who might get it wrong with some courtesy as well...if its a genuine mistake cant you just let it slide without correcting them to make them feel stupid and that they might have caused upset unknowingly " What's wrong with a gentle, basic correction? Same as if I'm ever called sir, which happens. Oh, my name is (unambiguously female name). | |||
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"This is why a proper adult conversation cannot be had. Someone makes a made up comment and 4 people have agreed with it. So because five people disagree with you, you've declared that the conversation is improper? Sorry, but you're not the arbiter of all of this. It is something I have observed. It is clearly something Polly and others have observed. Disagree with me? I haven’t had an opinion on the matter. I’d like to know who nearly the all the people on here who’ve had a shit fit because of being called cis gender are? "Someone makes a made up comment". Your words. You're saying what Polly says is false or imaginary. Because people agree with Polly, you believe that a "proper adult conversation" is impossible. Again, your words. You seem to have a problem with it, in any case. And you've both insisted on your pronouns, in this very thread, while indicating that others should be denied the same courtesy. Looks a bit like a shit fit to me. Things must be as you say and no one can disagree or else you pick up your bat and ball and go home, saying it's all invalid. Because it is a made up comment made unnecessarily to create controversy. Where have I indicated anyone should be denied anything? Are you calling Polly a liar? Are you saying that those indicating agreement are also lying? Maybe other people - including Polly, who is in fact trans and has real lived experience of this - have a different perspective to you? Maybe your perspective is not the sole objective truth? I know Polly is trans. I have met her. It’s not about perspectives. It’s about the “nearly all the people on the thread” comment. Perhaps you should re - read what I said. " I have, thank you, and I think Polly's perspective is correct. Even if you disagree, it hardly rises to made up nonsense. It's a difference in reading threads. Everyone reads these things differently, as you're well aware. | |||
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"This is why a proper adult conversation cannot be had. Someone makes a made up comment and 4 people have agreed with it. So because five people disagree with you, you've declared that the conversation is improper? Sorry, but you're not the arbiter of all of this. It is something I have observed. It is clearly something Polly and others have observed. Disagree with me? I haven’t had an opinion on the matter. I’d like to know who nearly the all the people on here who’ve had a shit fit because of being called cis gender are? "Someone makes a made up comment". Your words. You're saying what Polly says is false or imaginary. Because people agree with Polly, you believe that a "proper adult conversation" is impossible. Again, your words. You seem to have a problem with it, in any case. And you've both insisted on your pronouns, in this very thread, while indicating that others should be denied the same courtesy. Looks a bit like a shit fit to me. Things must be as you say and no one can disagree or else you pick up your bat and ball and go home, saying it's all invalid. Because it is a made up comment made unnecessarily to create controversy. Where have I indicated anyone should be denied anything? Are you calling Polly a liar? Are you saying that those indicating agreement are also lying? Maybe other people - including Polly, who is in fact trans and has real lived experience of this - have a different perspective to you? Maybe your perspective is not the sole objective truth? I know Polly is trans. I have met her. It’s not about perspectives. It’s about the “nearly all the people on the thread” comment. Perhaps you should re - read what I said. " This is the problems with threads like these that people do not read correctly what someone says and switch it in their own minds to make someone else's statement a problem when it actually isn't and never was! | |||
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"This is why a proper adult conversation cannot be had. Someone makes a made up comment and 4 people have agreed with it. So because five people disagree with you, you've declared that the conversation is improper? Sorry, but you're not the arbiter of all of this. It is something I have observed. It is clearly something Polly and others have observed. Disagree with me? I haven’t had an opinion on the matter. I’d like to know who nearly the all the people on here who’ve had a shit fit because of being called cis gender are? "Someone makes a made up comment". Your words. You're saying what Polly says is false or imaginary. Because people agree with Polly, you believe that a "proper adult conversation" is impossible. Again, your words. You seem to have a problem with it, in any case. And you've both insisted on your pronouns, in this very thread, while indicating that others should be denied the same courtesy. Looks a bit like a shit fit to me. Things must be as you say and no one can disagree or else you pick up your bat and ball and go home, saying it's all invalid. Because it is a made up comment made unnecessarily to create controversy. Where have I indicated anyone should be denied anything? Are you calling Polly a liar? Are you saying that those indicating agreement are also lying? Maybe other people - including Polly, who is in fact trans and has real lived experience of this - have a different perspective to you? Maybe your perspective is not the sole objective truth? I know Polly is trans. I have met her. It’s not about perspectives. It’s about the “nearly all the people on the thread” comment. Perhaps you should re - read what I said. I have, thank you, and I think Polly's perspective is correct. Even if you disagree, it hardly rises to made up nonsense. It's a difference in reading threads. Everyone reads these things differently, as you're well aware." I’m afraid it does. She stated a fact. It’s not correct. Unless you’d like to show me where nearly all the people on this thread have had a fit about being called cis - gender. You have no argument I’m afraid Swing. Because what was said isn’t true. | |||
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"This is why a proper adult conversation cannot be had. Someone makes a made up comment and 4 people have agreed with it. So because five people disagree with you, you've declared that the conversation is improper? Sorry, but you're not the arbiter of all of this. It is something I have observed. It is clearly something Polly and others have observed. Disagree with me? I haven’t had an opinion on the matter. I’d like to know who nearly the all the people on here who’ve had a shit fit because of being called cis gender are? "Someone makes a made up comment". Your words. You're saying what Polly says is false or imaginary. Because people agree with Polly, you believe that a "proper adult conversation" is impossible. Again, your words. You seem to have a problem with it, in any case. And you've both insisted on your pronouns, in this very thread, while indicating that others should be denied the same courtesy. Looks a bit like a shit fit to me. Things must be as you say and no one can disagree or else you pick up your bat and ball and go home, saying it's all invalid. Because it is a made up comment made unnecessarily to create controversy. Where have I indicated anyone should be denied anything? Are you calling Polly a liar? Are you saying that those indicating agreement are also lying? Maybe other people - including Polly, who is in fact trans and has real lived experience of this - have a different perspective to you? Maybe your perspective is not the sole objective truth? I know Polly is trans. I have met her. It’s not about perspectives. It’s about the “nearly all the people on the thread” comment. Perhaps you should re - read what I said. This is the problems with threads like these that people do not read correctly what someone says and switch it in their own minds to make someone else's statement a problem when it actually isn't and never was! "Humans aren't very good at debate. We're chokka full of biases and often oblivious to them. | |||
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"I get called miss all the time when I work in schools. I feel belittled, offended, upset why .. wait - no I don’t. I couldn’t give a fuck. If you want to be referred to as ‘they’ and you tell me that, then I’ll make every effort to remember that, but if I forget so what, I get my children’s names wrong most of the time… I don’t think they/them etc are trying to be superior. I don’t believe any title makes anyone feel superior even Her Maj … ok not a good example. But you get my point superior it ain’t meant to be! So, tell me your pro nouns and I’ll accommodate you to the best of my cognitive abilities. Exactly. It's just basic fucking courtesy to try to treat people as they want to be treated. Goes both ways....treat people who might get it wrong with some courtesy as well...if its a genuine mistake cant you just let it slide without correcting them to make them feel stupid and that they might have caused upset unknowingly Of course! If a genuine mistake! I get that as a mother of a transgender daughter! Having been calling up the stairs Micheal for 18 years to suddenly calling Sophie your dinners ready! I slipped at times and said wrong name and felt awful enough! But it's when u get people doing it purposefully! Seen it lots in the forums x Doing it purposefully is just downright disrespectful and nasty. " Yep it is... But then you have the challenge of working out if it was on purpose or by mistake. | |||
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"I get called miss all the time when I work in schools. I feel belittled, offended, upset why .. wait - no I don’t. I couldn’t give a fuck. If you want to be referred to as ‘they’ and you tell me that, then I’ll make every effort to remember that, but if I forget so what, I get my children’s names wrong most of the time… I don’t think they/them etc are trying to be superior. I don’t believe any title makes anyone feel superior even Her Maj … ok not a good example. But you get my point superior it ain’t meant to be! So, tell me your pro nouns and I’ll accommodate you to the best of my cognitive abilities. Exactly. It's just basic fucking courtesy to try to treat people as they want to be treated. Goes both ways....treat people who might get it wrong with some courtesy as well...if its a genuine mistake cant you just let it slide without correcting them to make them feel stupid and that they might have caused upset unknowingly Of course! If a genuine mistake! I get that as a mother of a transgender daughter! Having been calling up the stairs Micheal for 18 years to suddenly calling Sophie your dinners ready! I slipped at times and said wrong name and felt awful enough! But it's when u get people doing it purposefully! Seen it lots in the forums x Doing it purposefully is just downright disrespectful and nasty. Yep it is... But then you have the challenge of working out if it was on purpose or by mistake. " True but to be honest I think it can be pretty obvious who’s doing it to be nasty. | |||
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"Just a genuine question. How often during a day does someone have their pronouns used? I know I don't walk around asking people to call me "Mr". If a parent is getting their own kids names wrong, can't we breathe a little bit when strangers get a pronoun "wrong". " Mr is your title. You probably don't know how many times a day you are referred to as "he", because you're not present for at least some of them. | |||
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"This is why a proper adult conversation cannot be had. Someone makes a made up comment and 4 people have agreed with it. So because five people disagree with you, you've declared that the conversation is improper? Sorry, but you're not the arbiter of all of this. It is something I have observed. It is clearly something Polly and others have observed. Disagree with me? I haven’t had an opinion on the matter. I’d like to know who nearly the all the people on here who’ve had a shit fit because of being called cis gender are? "Someone makes a made up comment". Your words. You're saying what Polly says is false or imaginary. Because people agree with Polly, you believe that a "proper adult conversation" is impossible. Again, your words. You seem to have a problem with it, in any case. And you've both insisted on your pronouns, in this very thread, while indicating that others should be denied the same courtesy. Looks a bit like a shit fit to me. Things must be as you say and no one can disagree or else you pick up your bat and ball and go home, saying it's all invalid. Because it is a made up comment made unnecessarily to create controversy. Where have I indicated anyone should be denied anything? Are you calling Polly a liar? Are you saying that those indicating agreement are also lying? Maybe other people - including Polly, who is in fact trans and has real lived experience of this - have a different perspective to you? Maybe your perspective is not the sole objective truth? I know Polly is trans. I have met her. It’s not about perspectives. It’s about the “nearly all the people on the thread” comment. Perhaps you should re - read what I said. I have, thank you, and I think Polly's perspective is correct. Even if you disagree, it hardly rises to made up nonsense. It's a difference in reading threads. Everyone reads these things differently, as you're well aware. I’m afraid it does. She stated a fact. It’s not correct. Unless you’d like to show me where nearly all the people on this thread have had a fit about being called cis - gender. You have no argument I’m afraid Swing. Because what was said isn’t true. " Declaring things true because you say so is more in the genre of virus forum, but ok, you do you. | |||
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"when just about everyone I've ever met in nearly 50 years has appeared to cope perfectly well with either " The key word is "appeared". People are only just beginning to talk about these things openly, and even now they face hostility for doing so, as evidenced by these forum threads. There's a good chance you've known people who would have preferred to have been "out" as a different gender to the one you knew them as. | |||
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"Just a genuine question. How often during a day does someone have their pronouns used? I know I don't walk around asking people to call me "Mr". If a parent is getting their own kids names wrong, can't we breathe a little bit when strangers get a pronoun "wrong". Mr is your title. You probably don't know how many times a day you are referred to as "he", because you're not present for at least some of them." Oops yes "he" thank you... And if I'm not present it doesn't matter to me. Original question still stands though... How often in a day is my pronoun used in conversation with me.? In interactions about me it almost always "you" or "we". | |||
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"Just a genuine question. How often during a day does someone have their pronouns used? I know I don't walk around asking people to call me "Mr". If a parent is getting their own kids names wrong, can't we breathe a little bit when strangers get a pronoun "wrong". " Do a little experiment. Remove pronouns - I, we, you, he, she, it, they (and all derivatives like me, her, etc) from your language for half an hour. Then come back to me. | |||
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simples | |||
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"Just a genuine question. How often during a day does someone have their pronouns used? I know I don't walk around asking people to call me "Mr". If a parent is getting their own kids names wrong, can't we breathe a little bit when strangers get a pronoun "wrong". Mr is your title. You probably don't know how many times a day you are referred to as "he", because you're not present for at least some of them. Oops yes "he" thank you... And if I'm not present it doesn't matter to me. Original question still stands though... How often in a day is my pronoun used in conversation with me.? In interactions about me it almost always "you" or "we". " You is a pronoun. It's like - I'm assuming you're a cisgender man for the purposes of - someone going around calling you a woman. I gather it's worse, but as a cisgender woman that's the closest I've got. For me it's jarring and irritating at a minimum. | |||
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"Just a genuine question. How often during a day does someone have their pronouns used? I know I don't walk around asking people to call me "Mr". If a parent is getting their own kids names wrong, can't we breathe a little bit when strangers get a pronoun "wrong". Do a little experiment. Remove pronouns - I, we, you, he, she, it, they (and all derivatives like me, her, etc) from your language for half an hour. Then come back to me." Is it only personal pronouns or can relative and possessive be used too? | |||
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"Just a genuine question. How often during a day does someone have their pronouns used? I know I don't walk around asking people to call me "Mr". If a parent is getting their own kids names wrong, can't we breathe a little bit when strangers get a pronoun "wrong". Do a little experiment. Remove pronouns - I, we, you, he, she, it, they (and all derivatives like me, her, etc) from your language for half an hour. Then come back to me. Is it only personal pronouns or can relative and possessive be used too? " Fucked if I know
Removing pronouns sounds like too much of a pain in my arse | |||
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"This is why a proper adult conversation cannot be had. Someone makes a made up comment and 4 people have agreed with it. So because five people disagree with you, you've declared that the conversation is improper? Sorry, but you're not the arbiter of all of this. It is something I have observed. It is clearly something Polly and others have observed. Disagree with me? I haven’t had an opinion on the matter. I’d like to know who nearly the all the people on here who’ve had a shit fit because of being called cis gender are? "Someone makes a made up comment". Your words. You're saying what Polly says is false or imaginary. Because people agree with Polly, you believe that a "proper adult conversation" is impossible. Again, your words. You seem to have a problem with it, in any case. And you've both insisted on your pronouns, in this very thread, while indicating that others should be denied the same courtesy. Looks a bit like a shit fit to me. Things must be as you say and no one can disagree or else you pick up your bat and ball and go home, saying it's all invalid. Because it is a made up comment made unnecessarily to create controversy. Where have I indicated anyone should be denied anything? Are you calling Polly a liar? Are you saying that those indicating agreement are also lying? Maybe other people - including Polly, who is in fact trans and has real lived experience of this - have a different perspective to you? Maybe your perspective is not the sole objective truth? I know Polly is trans. I have met her. It’s not about perspectives. It’s about the “nearly all the people on the thread” comment. Perhaps you should re - read what I said. I have, thank you, and I think Polly's perspective is correct. Even if you disagree, it hardly rises to made up nonsense. It's a difference in reading threads. Everyone reads these things differently, as you're well aware. I’m afraid it does. She stated a fact. It’s not correct. Unless you’d like to show me where nearly all the people on this thread have had a fit about being called cis - gender. You have no argument I’m afraid Swing. Because what was said isn’t true. Declaring things true because you say so is more in the genre of virus forum, but ok, you do you." Actually making a statement with nothing backing it up is for the virus forum Especially when everyone has a post history, so backing it up, if it was true, wouldn’t be hard You’d fit right in | |||
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"This is why a proper adult conversation cannot be had. Someone makes a made up comment and 4 people have agreed with it. So because five people disagree with you, you've declared that the conversation is improper? Sorry, but you're not the arbiter of all of this. It is something I have observed. It is clearly something Polly and others have observed. Disagree with me? I haven’t had an opinion on the matter. I’d like to know who nearly the all the people on here who’ve had a shit fit because of being called cis gender are? "Someone makes a made up comment". Your words. You're saying what Polly says is false or imaginary. Because people agree with Polly, you believe that a "proper adult conversation" is impossible. Again, your words. You seem to have a problem with it, in any case. And you've both insisted on your pronouns, in this very thread, while indicating that others should be denied the same courtesy. Looks a bit like a shit fit to me. Things must be as you say and no one can disagree or else you pick up your bat and ball and go home, saying it's all invalid. Because it is a made up comment made unnecessarily to create controversy. Where have I indicated anyone should be denied anything? Are you calling Polly a liar? Are you saying that those indicating agreement are also lying? Maybe other people - including Polly, who is in fact trans and has real lived experience of this - have a different perspective to you? Maybe your perspective is not the sole objective truth? I know Polly is trans. I have met her. It’s not about perspectives. It’s about the “nearly all the people on the thread” comment. Perhaps you should re - read what I said. I have, thank you, and I think Polly's perspective is correct. Even if you disagree, it hardly rises to made up nonsense. It's a difference in reading threads. Everyone reads these things differently, as you're well aware. I’m afraid it does. She stated a fact. It’s not correct. Unless you’d like to show me where nearly all the people on this thread have had a fit about being called cis - gender. You have no argument I’m afraid Swing. Because what was said isn’t true. Declaring things true because you say so is more in the genre of virus forum, but ok, you do you. Actually making a statement with nothing backing it up is for the virus forum Especially when everyone has a post history, so backing it up, if it was true, wouldn’t be hard You’d fit right in " The posts are right there to read. Along with, as you say, posting history. Polly has made an observation that others have agreed with. Declaring it invalid by fiat is absurd. | |||
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"This is why a proper adult conversation cannot be had. Someone makes a made up comment and 4 people have agreed with it. So because five people disagree with you, you've declared that the conversation is improper? Sorry, but you're not the arbiter of all of this. It is something I have observed. It is clearly something Polly and others have observed. Disagree with me? I haven’t had an opinion on the matter. I’d like to know who nearly the all the people on here who’ve had a shit fit because of being called cis gender are? "Someone makes a made up comment". Your words. You're saying what Polly says is false or imaginary. Because people agree with Polly, you believe that a "proper adult conversation" is impossible. Again, your words. You seem to have a problem with it, in any case. And you've both insisted on your pronouns, in this very thread, while indicating that others should be denied the same courtesy. Looks a bit like a shit fit to me. Things must be as you say and no one can disagree or else you pick up your bat and ball and go home, saying it's all invalid. Because it is a made up comment made unnecessarily to create controversy. Where have I indicated anyone should be denied anything? Are you calling Polly a liar? Are you saying that those indicating agreement are also lying? Maybe other people - including Polly, who is in fact trans and has real lived experience of this - have a different perspective to you? Maybe your perspective is not the sole objective truth? I know Polly is trans. I have met her. It’s not about perspectives. It’s about the “nearly all the people on the thread” comment. Perhaps you should re - read what I said. I have, thank you, and I think Polly's perspective is correct. Even if you disagree, it hardly rises to made up nonsense. It's a difference in reading threads. Everyone reads these things differently, as you're well aware. I’m afraid it does. She stated a fact. It’s not correct. Unless you’d like to show me where nearly all the people on this thread have had a fit about being called cis - gender. You have no argument I’m afraid Swing. Because what was said isn’t true. Declaring things true because you say so is more in the genre of virus forum, but ok, you do you. Actually making a statement with nothing backing it up is for the virus forum Especially when everyone has a post history, so backing it up, if it was true, wouldn’t be hard You’d fit right in The posts are right there to read. Along with, as you say, posting history. Polly has made an observation that others have agreed with. Declaring it invalid by fiat is absurd." It’s not on anyone but polly to back it up. To just agree with it when you haven’t seen proof would be idiotic. Which is why I don’t | |||
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"This is why a proper adult conversation cannot be had. Someone makes a made up comment and 4 people have agreed with it. So because five people disagree with you, you've declared that the conversation is improper? Sorry, but you're not the arbiter of all of this. It is something I have observed. It is clearly something Polly and others have observed. Disagree with me? I haven’t had an opinion on the matter. I’d like to know who nearly the all the people on here who’ve had a shit fit because of being called cis gender are? "Someone makes a made up comment". Your words. You're saying what Polly says is false or imaginary. Because people agree with Polly, you believe that a "proper adult conversation" is impossible. Again, your words. You seem to have a problem with it, in any case. And you've both insisted on your pronouns, in this very thread, while indicating that others should be denied the same courtesy. Looks a bit like a shit fit to me. Things must be as you say and no one can disagree or else you pick up your bat and ball and go home, saying it's all invalid. Because it is a made up comment made unnecessarily to create controversy. Where have I indicated anyone should be denied anything? Are you calling Polly a liar? Are you saying that those indicating agreement are also lying? Maybe other people - including Polly, who is in fact trans and has real lived experience of this - have a different perspective to you? Maybe your perspective is not the sole objective truth? I know Polly is trans. I have met her. It’s not about perspectives. It’s about the “nearly all the people on the thread” comment. Perhaps you should re - read what I said. I have, thank you, and I think Polly's perspective is correct. Even if you disagree, it hardly rises to made up nonsense. It's a difference in reading threads. Everyone reads these things differently, as you're well aware. I’m afraid it does. She stated a fact. It’s not correct. Unless you’d like to show me where nearly all the people on this thread have had a fit about being called cis - gender. You have no argument I’m afraid Swing. Because what was said isn’t true. Declaring things true because you say so is more in the genre of virus forum, but ok, you do you. Actually making a statement with nothing backing it up is for the virus forum Especially when everyone has a post history, so backing it up, if it was true, wouldn’t be hard You’d fit right in The posts are right there to read. Along with, as you say, posting history. Polly has made an observation that others have agreed with. Declaring it invalid by fiat is absurd. It’s not on anyone but polly to back it up. To just agree with it when you haven’t seen proof would be idiotic. Which is why I don’t " Exactly! Show me where and I’ll be the first to apologise (to Polly) and take it all back. | |||
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"Just a genuine question. How often during a day does someone have their pronouns used? I know I don't walk around asking people to call me "Mr". If a parent is getting their own kids names wrong, can't we breathe a little bit when strangers get a pronoun "wrong". Mr is your title. You probably don't know how many times a day you are referred to as "he", because you're not present for at least some of them. Oops yes "he" thank you... And if I'm not present it doesn't matter to me. Original question still stands though... How often in a day is my pronoun used in conversation with me.? In interactions about me it almost always "you" or "we". You is a pronoun. It's like - I'm assuming you're a cisgender man for the purposes of - someone going around calling you a woman. I gather it's worse, but as a cisgender woman that's the closest I've got. For me it's jarring and irritating at a minimum." In my interactions during a day. My gender or the gender of my pronouns never comes up. Unless "you/we" has gender. The question and perhaps I need to be more precise... Was not how often are pronouns used. But how often mine that refer to me and in communication with me are used. | |||
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"This is why a proper adult conversation cannot be had. Someone makes a made up comment and 4 people have agreed with it. So because five people disagree with you, you've declared that the conversation is improper? Sorry, but you're not the arbiter of all of this. It is something I have observed. It is clearly something Polly and others have observed. Disagree with me? I haven’t had an opinion on the matter. I’d like to know who nearly the all the people on here who’ve had a shit fit because of being called cis gender are? "Someone makes a made up comment". Your words. You're saying what Polly says is false or imaginary. Because people agree with Polly, you believe that a "proper adult conversation" is impossible. Again, your words. You seem to have a problem with it, in any case. And you've both insisted on your pronouns, in this very thread, while indicating that others should be denied the same courtesy. Looks a bit like a shit fit to me. Things must be as you say and no one can disagree or else you pick up your bat and ball and go home, saying it's all invalid. Because it is a made up comment made unnecessarily to create controversy. Where have I indicated anyone should be denied anything? Are you calling Polly a liar? Are you saying that those indicating agreement are also lying? Maybe other people - including Polly, who is in fact trans and has real lived experience of this - have a different perspective to you? Maybe your perspective is not the sole objective truth? I know Polly is trans. I have met her. It’s not about perspectives. It’s about the “nearly all the people on the thread” comment. Perhaps you should re - read what I said. I have, thank you, and I think Polly's perspective is correct. Even if you disagree, it hardly rises to made up nonsense. It's a difference in reading threads. Everyone reads these things differently, as you're well aware. I’m afraid it does. She stated a fact. It’s not correct. Unless you’d like to show me where nearly all the people on this thread have had a fit about being called cis - gender. You have no argument I’m afraid Swing. Because what was said isn’t true. Declaring things true because you say so is more in the genre of virus forum, but ok, you do you. Actually making a statement with nothing backing it up is for the virus forum Especially when everyone has a post history, so backing it up, if it was true, wouldn’t be hard You’d fit right in The posts are right there to read. Along with, as you say, posting history. Polly has made an observation that others have agreed with. Declaring it invalid by fiat is absurd. It’s not on anyone but polly to back it up. To just agree with it when you haven’t seen proof would be idiotic. Which is why I don’t Exactly! Show me where and I’ll be the first to apologise (to Polly) and take it all back. " You insisted on your own pronouns and corrected cis woman to woman, in this very thread, for example. You're defending all of this pretty vociferously. I don't think it's Polly engaging in made up nonsense here. | |||
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"This is why a proper adult conversation cannot be had. Someone makes a made up comment and 4 people have agreed with it. So because five people disagree with you, you've declared that the conversation is improper? Sorry, but you're not the arbiter of all of this. It is something I have observed. It is clearly something Polly and others have observed. Disagree with me? I haven’t had an opinion on the matter. I’d like to know who nearly the all the people on here who’ve had a shit fit because of being called cis gender are? "Someone makes a made up comment". Your words. You're saying what Polly says is false or imaginary. Because people agree with Polly, you believe that a "proper adult conversation" is impossible. Again, your words. You seem to have a problem with it, in any case. And you've both insisted on your pronouns, in this very thread, while indicating that others should be denied the same courtesy. Looks a bit like a shit fit to me. Things must be as you say and no one can disagree or else you pick up your bat and ball and go home, saying it's all invalid. Because it is a made up comment made unnecessarily to create controversy. Where have I indicated anyone should be denied anything? Are you calling Polly a liar? Are you saying that those indicating agreement are also lying? Maybe other people - including Polly, who is in fact trans and has real lived experience of this - have a different perspective to you? Maybe your perspective is not the sole objective truth? I know Polly is trans. I have met her. It’s not about perspectives. It’s about the “nearly all the people on the thread” comment. Perhaps you should re - read what I said. I have, thank you, and I think Polly's perspective is correct. Even if you disagree, it hardly rises to made up nonsense. It's a difference in reading threads. Everyone reads these things differently, as you're well aware. I’m afraid it does. She stated a fact. It’s not correct. Unless you’d like to show me where nearly all the people on this thread have had a fit about being called cis - gender. You have no argument I’m afraid Swing. Because what was said isn’t true. Declaring things true because you say so is more in the genre of virus forum, but ok, you do you. Actually making a statement with nothing backing it up is for the virus forum Especially when everyone has a post history, so backing it up, if it was true, wouldn’t be hard You’d fit right in The posts are right there to read. Along with, as you say, posting history. Polly has made an observation that others have agreed with. Declaring it invalid by fiat is absurd. It’s not on anyone but polly to back it up. To just agree with it when you haven’t seen proof would be idiotic. Which is why I don’t Exactly! Show me where and I’ll be the first to apologise (to Polly) and take it all back. You insisted on your own pronouns and corrected cis woman to woman, in this very thread, for example. You're defending all of this pretty vociferously. I don't think it's Polly engaging in made up nonsense here. "Yes I did. Could you expand a bit on that last sentence please? I’m confused | |||
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"This is why a proper adult conversation cannot be had. Someone makes a made up comment and 4 people have agreed with it. So because five people disagree with you, you've declared that the conversation is improper? Sorry, but you're not the arbiter of all of this. It is something I have observed. It is clearly something Polly and others have observed. Disagree with me? I haven’t had an opinion on the matter. I’d like to know who nearly the all the people on here who’ve had a shit fit because of being called cis gender are? "Someone makes a made up comment". Your words. You're saying what Polly says is false or imaginary. Because people agree with Polly, you believe that a "proper adult conversation" is impossible. Again, your words. You seem to have a problem with it, in any case. And you've both insisted on your pronouns, in this very thread, while indicating that others should be denied the same courtesy. Looks a bit like a shit fit to me. Things must be as you say and no one can disagree or else you pick up your bat and ball and go home, saying it's all invalid. Because it is a made up comment made unnecessarily to create controversy. Where have I indicated anyone should be denied anything? Are you calling Polly a liar? Are you saying that those indicating agreement are also lying? Maybe other people - including Polly, who is in fact trans and has real lived experience of this - have a different perspective to you? Maybe your perspective is not the sole objective truth? I know Polly is trans. I have met her. It’s not about perspectives. It’s about the “nearly all the people on the thread” comment. Perhaps you should re - read what I said. I have, thank you, and I think Polly's perspective is correct. Even if you disagree, it hardly rises to made up nonsense. It's a difference in reading threads. Everyone reads these things differently, as you're well aware. I’m afraid it does. She stated a fact. It’s not correct. Unless you’d like to show me where nearly all the people on this thread have had a fit about being called cis - gender. You have no argument I’m afraid Swing. Because what was said isn’t true. Declaring things true because you say so is more in the genre of virus forum, but ok, you do you. Actually making a statement with nothing backing it up is for the virus forum Especially when everyone has a post history, so backing it up, if it was true, wouldn’t be hard You’d fit right in The posts are right there to read. Along with, as you say, posting history. Polly has made an observation that others have agreed with. Declaring it invalid by fiat is absurd. It’s not on anyone but polly to back it up. To just agree with it when you haven’t seen proof would be idiotic. Which is why I don’t Exactly! Show me where and I’ll be the first to apologise (to Polly) and take it all back. You insisted on your own pronouns and corrected cis woman to woman, in this very thread, for example. You're defending all of this pretty vociferously. I don't think it's Polly engaging in made up nonsense here. "Ok, let’s for a minute pretend that’s right. Let’s pretend that’s Nora saying “ I like she/her” is equal to having a shit fit. Just pretend That’s 1 How many is “nearly everyone” That’s gotta be like 90% right? Let’s see the proof | |||
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"It is interesting that nearly all the people on this thread declaring that pronouns don't matter are the same ones that have a shit fit every time they get referred to as cisgender." This post is exactly why the vast majority of people block transgendered individuals from their profiles. The minefield that many of them sow is not worth the trouble of negotiating. And I have just as much evidence for my statement as you do you for yours.  | |||
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"when just about everyone I've ever met in nearly 50 years has appeared to cope perfectly well with either The key word is "appeared". People are only just beginning to talk about these things openly, and even now they face hostility for doing so, as evidenced by these forum threads. There's a good chance you've known people who would have preferred to have been "out" as a different gender to the one you knew them as. " I used appeared, so as to avoid absolutes and making assumptions. I'm aware that I wouldn't have known otherwise. | |||
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" This post is exactly why the vast majority of people block transgendered individuals from their profiles." 1. I don't agree that the vast majority block, but suspect neither of us could prove our case. 2. You can't possibly know the reasons why everybody that blocks trans, does so. | |||
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"Love it when people show their true colours so early on. Again, the forums are a great filter." the best of filters...I see some folk on threads and I just go and block them ...I don't want to ever risk me contacting them (because my memory is crap) or give them the opportunity to ever contact me ....Forums for the win ...carry on  | |||
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"Love it when people show their true colours so early on. Again, the forums are a great filter. the best of filters...I see some folk on threads and I just go and block them ...I don't want to ever risk me contacting them (because my memory is crap) or give them the opportunity to ever contact me ....Forums for the win ...carry on "Ditto | |||
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" This post is exactly why the vast majority of people block transgendered individuals from their profiles. 1. I don't agree that the vast majority block, but suspect neither of us could prove our case. 2. You can't possibly know the reasons why everybody that blocks trans, does so." Yup I have absolutely no evidence whatsoever. And neither does the poster of the post I quoted. Great harm can be caused by false statements presented as fact. | |||
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" This post is exactly why the vast majority of people block transgendered individuals from their profiles. 1. I don't agree that the vast majority block, but suspect neither of us could prove our case. 2. You can't possibly know the reasons why everybody that blocks trans, does so. Yup I have absolutely no evidence whatsoever. And neither does the poster of the post I quoted. Great harm can be caused by false statements presented as fact."So your post was knowingly bollocks to make that point, and in no way represented your opinion? | |||
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"It is interesting that nearly all the people on this thread declaring that pronouns don't matter are the same ones that have a shit fit every time they get referred to as cisgender. Who? I’m on here quite a lot and not seen that. And you say “nearly all the people”? I did say "nearly all" rather than "all". It's good to know though that you are perfectly happy being referred to as a cis woman, and not at all bothered what pronouns people use for you. I’ve personally never seen anyone get annoyed at being called cis Are you making this up to prove a point? Or have I missed something in the forum? Obviously missed it! Not just this thread but on many! X On many? And I’ve missed them all? I think it’s made up to prove a point. Just my experience. Never seen anyone on this forum lose their shot over being labelled cisgendered. Let alone “nearly everyone on this thread”. " I've literally never seen this happen, and I spend my life on the forums. | |||
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"That’s two threads on pronouns, can somebody do the next one on apostrophes and where and when they should be used please. "Actually could do with that, and where to put full stops. I can write a sentence that's a paragraph long | |||
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"I'll be totally honest here... I don't actually care what anyone's pronouns are, I also don't care what someone might refer to me as. (you can call that privileged if you want, again, I don't care) If you look female and I refer to you as one, but you identify as a him and get offended, that's your problem, not mine If you tell me up front what your pronoun is so I have no excuse to get it wrong, I probably won't ever refer to you as I won't be in a situation where you are present, not because I'm anti-pronoun types, I just won't have anything in common with you on any level to need to refer to you,we would move in different circles. The world has just become a place for people to get offended over the smallest of thing, identify as a post box if you want, just don't get offended when I call you a her because you're wearing a skirt and have DD breasts. I can't actually recall EVER being offended by anything someone has said to me, life's to short to give a fuck about what comes out of someone else's mouth. I look forward to joining your blocked user list "top reply?? | |||
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"It is interesting that nearly all the people on this thread declaring that pronouns don't matter are the same ones that have a shit fit every time they get referred to as cisgender. Who? I’m on here quite a lot and not seen that. And you say “nearly all the people”? I did say "nearly all" rather than "all". It's good to know though that you are perfectly happy being referred to as a cis woman, and not at all bothered what pronouns people use for you. I’ve personally never seen anyone get annoyed at being called cis Are you making this up to prove a point? Or have I missed something in the forum? Obviously missed it! Not just this thread but on many! X On many? And I’ve missed them all? I think it’s made up to prove a point. Just my experience. Never seen anyone on this forum lose their shot over being labelled cisgendered. Let alone “nearly everyone on this thread”. I've literally never seen this happen, and I spend my life on the forums. " Me neither and I’ve somehow ended up in some ridiculous argument with someone who’s offended by proxy and been accused of all sorts! All I wanted was an explanation for the comment. I’m taking my bat and ball now but if anyone seriously thinks I was out of order here in any of my comments please message me. I would welcome it. | |||
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"To be honest I have a large circle of LGBTQ+ friends and whenever I've met someone non-binary they seem to make their whole life about it and spend all their time telling people about how much they don't conform. Most people are past all that now and will be happy to accept people however they are dressed or who they love. You'll always get the odd phobe but that's life. I said it last night and I'll say it again: I really wish my life was that sunshine and rainbows that I had the energy to care so much about what word someone puts in front of my name " | |||
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"It is interesting that nearly all the people on this thread declaring that pronouns don't matter are the same ones that have a shit fit every time they get referred to as cisgender. Who? I’m on here quite a lot and not seen that. And you say “nearly all the people”? I did say "nearly all" rather than "all". It's good to know though that you are perfectly happy being referred to as a cis woman, and not at all bothered what pronouns people use for you. I’ve personally never seen anyone get annoyed at being called cis Are you making this up to prove a point? Or have I missed something in the forum? Obviously missed it! Not just this thread but on many! X On many? And I’ve missed them all? I think it’s made up to prove a point. Just my experience. Never seen anyone on this forum lose their shot over being labelled cisgendered. Let alone “nearly everyone on this thread”. I've literally never seen this happen, and I spend my life on the forums. " My sister would but luckily also wouldn't be on this site. | |||
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"It is interesting that nearly all the people on this thread declaring that pronouns don't matter are the same ones that have a shit fit every time they get referred to as cisgender. Who? I’m on here quite a lot and not seen that. And you say “nearly all the people”? I did say "nearly all" rather than "all". It's good to know though that you are perfectly happy being referred to as a cis woman, and not at all bothered what pronouns people use for you." Without wanting to get into a massive argument, I've heard people say they don't want to be labeled cis but have only ever seen one person on the forums get properly annoyed by the term and she isn't on this thread. I guess you and I may have a different interpretation of "shit fit" though. If you're using it to encompass people who have merely stated a preference I suggest that you shouldn't be surprised when others do the same and accuse trans people of being things like militant, outspoken, attention seeking and the like when all they're doing is recording a preference. Trying to make out that the language/behaviour of a person with a different opinion is unreasonable is just a way of avoiding a proper debate about that behaviour. Instead, you paint it as infantile and then summarily dismiss it - I suspect this is what Nora means by not being able to have an adult conversation. From what I see most people don't really care that much, they'll do their best to accommodate others wishes it's just that no-one likes being told what to do, especially by strangers and even more so if what they're being told to do seems alien to them. The idea that they're being told they have to behave in a certain way as opposed to asked is subjective. It seems to me if you want people to believe that you are merely requesting something, not ramming it down their throats then it's perhaps best not to massively exaggerate your perception of their behaviour in return. Telling someone they ought to respect your choices but describing them expressing theirs as having a shit fit isn't going to help anyone. I mean it may just be that you're a flamboyant personality and regularly use shit fit to describe everyday interactions but from what I've seen Poly, you are usually a very well reasoned and careful thinker. Mr | |||
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"Love it when people show their true colours so early on. Again, the forums are a great filter. the best of filters...I see some folk on threads and I just go and block them ...I don't want to ever risk me contacting them (because my memory is crap) or give them the opportunity to ever contact me ....Forums for the win ...carry on "I use the private notes for this as my memory not good either x | |||
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"Im gonna show my ignorance here but....if you want to be known by something different your just trying to prove your superior to someone who doesn't get it and you enjoy making that person feel stupid...if someone mis pronouns you just ignore it....be happy that you know who you are...most people don't care,they just tolerate your game,this is nothing against those but I find it strange that people get upset when wrongly referred to as miss or mr or him her them they....just identify as you...someone getting it wrong ruins 5 seconds of your day so just enjoy all the other seconds" No. | |||
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"It is interesting that nearly all the people on this thread declaring that pronouns don't matter are the same ones that have a shit fit every time they get referred to as cisgender. Who? I’m on here quite a lot and not seen that. And you say “nearly all the people”? I did say "nearly all" rather than "all". It's good to know though that you are perfectly happy being referred to as a cis woman, and not at all bothered what pronouns people use for you. I’ve personally never seen anyone get annoyed at being called cis Are you making this up to prove a point? Or have I missed something in the forum? Obviously missed it! Not just this thread but on many! X On many? And I’ve missed them all? I think it’s made up to prove a point. Just my experience. Never seen anyone on this forum lose their shot over being labelled cisgendered. Let alone “nearly everyone on this thread”. " Yup u must have missed them all I'm guessing! X | |||
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"Not meaning to be rude to anyone.. i just dont get any of it . I dont understand the need for any of it. "That's fine and means it doesn't matter to you, which is probably the same for most people tbh. But understanding that it might mean a lot to someone else, and doing your best not to purposely upset them, is just a nice thing to do. | |||
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"Im gonna show my ignorance here but....if you want to be known by something different your just trying to prove your superior to someone who doesn't get it and you enjoy making that person feel stupid...if someone mis pronouns you just ignore it....be happy that you know who you are...most people don't care,they just tolerate your game,this is nothing against those but I find it strange that people get upset when wrongly referred to as miss or mr or him her them they....just identify as you...someone getting it wrong ruins 5 seconds of your day so just enjoy all the other seconds" Ignorance.You have answered your own problem, you are ignorant. Ignorance is a lack of knowledge of something, usually totally unknown and different to them. Why not take the take to educate yourself and not be so ignorant. You may not accept but gain some understanding. I can be real pain in the ass when I encounter something new to me. I want to know about it, whats behind it, why this and why that ect...Ive messaged many people off the back of threads because I either new nothing or wanted to understand better. When I have I have never offended anyone ( that I'm aware of) but ive taken the time to educate myself on something I knew nothing or little about. To learn, to see things from a different perspective, to see the person behind it all. If you know nothing ( which you clearly dont here even you admit that) then you dont have a right to an opinion on it. You have to understand it first then decide to accept it or not. People dont seem to get mad when I ask questions, embrace it. There was a girl here once ( how she liked to be identified) who I learnt so much from, another guy ( gay ) who explained to me the top/bottom thing after I asked randomly if they have to make sure before hand they wernt both top or bottom and if its a deal breaker. Ignorance..lack of knowlage and the unknown. People are scared of the unknown and what is foregin to them. That only happens when they dont take the time to educate themselves. Why not take the time to learn about a subject, whatever it is, before casting judgment over something you know nothing about? | |||
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"My take on it as a gay man. Firstly it has nothing to do with sexuality but we are all lumped in together and I get it in the ear automatically from people ranting about it. Tiring to say the least. Besides that, I have found non-binary people can be very militant on average, but they need to be patient with the wider public, both gay and straight, as many of us have only just become aware of all these pronouns. On a closing note, I respect people if they want to use those pronouns but be patient with people "This. I've spent over 50 yrs referring to folk as he/she. Recently that's included trans folk I've encountered on here. I hope I've not gotten it wrong. I have gone through life referring to folk by what I perceive them to be - TVs as she, if in female dress, and so on. I thought I was doing ok. I've only ever heard the phrase cisgender on here, & until last night I thought they/them was the only option. And, let's be honest, the last time I had to grapple with pronouns was in school! I'm old fashioned, give me time to try to get my head around it & don't beat me with a stick if I get it wrong! | |||
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"Love it when people show their true colours so early on. Again, the forums are a great filter. the best of filters...I see some folk on threads and I just go and block them ...I don't want to ever risk me contacting them (because my memory is crap) or give them the opportunity to ever contact me ....Forums for the win ...carry on "I used to just block. Now i dont so much as like the notes bit on someones profile. So if they do message I can tell them why I dont wanna know. Then block them lol | |||
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" That's fine and means it doesn't matter to you, which is probably the same for most people tbh. But understanding that it might mean a lot to someone else, and doing your best not to purposely upset them, is just a nice thing to do."  | |||
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"I might have this wrong, but I will put it out there. If someones pronoun is they / them, surely they will never be referred to that in person. The same as he / she, you are talking to someone else. Which leads me to ask when do people get offended? Is it a specific moment? Let me know id I have got this wrong " Imagine you're standing in a group with 3 or 4 other people. You are talking to the group abouot one member of that group. You will at that point use third person singular pronouns wehn talking about that individual, because to use their name EVERY time wouldn't work. "Bob and Bob's kids are hosting a barbeque at Bob's house on Saturday" or "Bob and his kids are hosting a barbeque at his house on Saturday" | |||
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"I might have this wrong, but I will put it out there. If someones pronoun is they / them, surely they will never be referred to that in person. The same as he / she, you are talking to someone else. Which leads me to ask when do people get offended? Is it a specific moment? Let me know id I have got this wrong " Any time you are out with more than one person it comes up. "He was just telling me about" "She was late but I love her" "They brought me this lovely watch" All completely valid and realistic things to happen while the person being spoken about is there listening | |||
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"My take on it as a gay man. Firstly it has nothing to do with sexuality but we are all lumped in together and I get it in the ear automatically from people ranting about it. Tiring to say the least. Besides that, I have found non-binary people can be very militant on average, but they need to be patient with the wider public, both gay and straight, as many of us have only just become aware of all these pronouns. On a closing note, I respect people if they want to use those pronouns but be patient with people
This. I've spent over 50 yrs referring to folk as he/she. Recently that's included trans folk I've encountered on here. I hope I've not gotten it wrong. I have gone through life referring to folk by what I perceive them to be - TVs as she, if in female dress, and so on. I thought I was doing ok.
I've only ever heard the phrase cisgender on here, & until last night I thought they/them was the only option. And, let's be honest, the last time I had to grapple with pronouns was in school!
I'm old fashioned, give me time to try to get my head around it & don't beat me with a stick if I get it wrong! "This. I've never felt the need to educate myself either because as strange as it may seem I don't know any openly gay, trans or non binary people. I have no idea what cis even means. I will more than likely make mistakes but that's life and anyone taking offence because I have too many other things to concern myself with and don't have time to educate myself in an ever changing and evolving world needs to give their head a wobble. | |||
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"I might have this wrong, but I will put it out there. If someones pronoun is they / them, surely they will never be referred to that in person. The same as he / she, you are talking to someone else. Which leads me to ask when do people get offended? Is it a specific moment? Let me know id I have got this wrong " I dont think when talking to someone I ever say she/he/they. Just you? Like i wouldnt say does she want to go to the pub tonight? when stood chatting to them, its do you want to go to the pub tonight? | |||
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"Love it when people show their true colours so early on. Again, the forums are a great filter. the best of filters...I see some folk on threads and I just go and block them ...I don't want to ever risk me contacting them (because my memory is crap) or give them the opportunity to ever contact me ....Forums for the win ...carry on "This is a great idea. I'm stealing it | |||
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"I might have this wrong, but I will put it out there. If someones pronoun is they / them, surely they will never be referred to that in person. The same as he / she, you are talking to someone else. Which leads me to ask when do people get offended? Is it a specific moment? Let me know id I have got this wrong Imagine you're standing in a group with 3 or 4 other people. You are talking to the group abouot one member of that group. You will at that point use third person singular pronouns wehn talking about that individual, because to use their name EVERY time wouldn't work. "Bob and Bob's kids are hosting a barbeque at Bob's house on Saturday" or "Bob and his kids are hosting a barbeque at his house on Saturday" " Got it. How would that sentence be if Bob was they / them? Would it just be Bob's kids? | |||
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"I do find it interesting that there are a number of people that show little to no interest in the idea of respecting others correct pronouns, but will make an entire post about how their pronouns are xxx/xxx. Was the hypocrisy lost?" Plsssss who are these people? | |||
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"I do find it interesting that there are a number of people that show little to no interest in the idea of respecting others correct pronouns, but will make an entire post about how their pronouns are xxx/xxx. Was the hypocrisy lost? Plsssss who are these people? " Naming and shaming is against forum rules, scroll up | |||
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"Love it when people show their true colours so early on. Again, the forums are a great filter. the best of filters...I see some folk on threads and I just go and block them ...I don't want to ever risk me contacting them (because my memory is crap) or give them the opportunity to ever contact me ....Forums for the win ...carry on
I used to just block. Now i dont so much as like the notes bit on someones profile. So if they do message I can tell them why I dont wanna know. Then block them lol"that is extra savage , I'm adopting this lol | |||
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"Im gonna show my ignorance here but....if you want to be known by something different your just trying to prove your superior to someone who doesn't get it and you enjoy making that person feel stupid...if someone mis pronouns you just ignore it....be happy that you know who you are...most people don't care,they just tolerate your game,this is nothing against those but I find it strange that people get upset when wrongly referred to as miss or mr or him her them they....just identify as you...someone getting it wrong ruins 5 seconds of your day so just enjoy all the other seconds Ignorance.You have answered your own problem, you are ignorant. Ignorance is a lack of knowledge of something, usually totally unknown and different to them. Why not take the take to educate yourself and not be so ignorant. You may not accept but gain some understanding. I can be real pain in the ass when I encounter something new to me. I want to know about it, whats behind it, why this and why that ect...Ive messaged many people off the back of threads because I either new nothing or wanted to understand better. When I have I have never offended anyone ( that I'm aware of) but ive taken the time to educate myself on something I knew nothing or little about. To learn, to see things from a different perspective, to see the person behind it all. If you know nothing ( which you clearly dont here even you admit that) then you dont have a right to an opinion on it. You have to understand it first then decide to accept it or not. People dont seem to get mad when I ask questions, embrace it. There was a girl here once ( how she liked to be identified) who I learnt so much from, another guy ( gay ) who explained to me the top/bottom thing after I asked randomly if they have to make sure before hand they wernt both top or bottom and if its a deal breaker. Ignorance..lack of knowlage and the unknown. People are scared of the unknown and what is foregin to them. That only happens when they dont take the time to educate themselves. Why not take the time to learn about a subject, whatever it is, before casting judgment over something you know nothing about?" I like this approach, however you can only take it so far. Sometimes people assert things are true that others have said aren't the case. When you question this, one or other side has a tendency to take offence. The reality is, all this apprisch teaches you is the personal opinion of whoever you're asking. While two trans people will almost certainly have many life experiences in common (just as they'll share many others with cisgendered people) they won't all be the same and their opinion on what is or isn't acceptable will vary. If I had the time/energy I could trawl back and maybe find the post where a gendered trans person expressed their personal opinion that people who claim to be non binary are often making it up for attention. For that particular trans person, their way of understanding their personal situation appears to be based on the belief that the body and brain can get mixed up (a male brain with a female body or vice versa) and this leaves no explanation for non binary. It was a thread where I tried to ask questions, got no consistent answers and appeared to annoy just about everyone. I've become incredibly wary of asking about this topic because it is clear that the only way to avoid offending people is to nod in agreement with everything they say and that simply isn't me. I've tried reading books by experts and trans people but the reality is I'm no more clued up about the best way to behave than I was before. Along the way I have learnt how the debate has been twisted, how inflammatory problems are used to create division and how much harder life can be for trans people. I also am privileged in that what pronoun to use really doesn't affect me so until it does I'll maintain an open mind and try to be kind to people whatever they think about it. In return I'll request that people realise I can barely rember peoples names, please don't expect me to remember your pronoun without occasional reminders. Mr | |||
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