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White knights
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"Are they a pain in the arse, do you think they are actually snowflakes who quite often get offended by comments that have nothing to do with them and are not recieved by others as offensive. Do you think it's just another tactic to make themselves look good in the slim hope of being one step closer to their Nat King Cole. Personally I think it's all of the above. Tell us your white Knight stories, perhaps your a white Knight and would like to defend your castle , let's hear, now your chance to stand out "You failed at being funny... | |||
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"Whats your definition of a white knight?" Someone who ignores the topic and jumps to the defence of another forum user as they don't like or is offended by something they have read , even when it is being discussed rationally by the white nights perceived victim of said comment. Or again a female makes an absolute ridiculous comment on the forums and the white Knight jumps in and agrees with said stupid comment to gain favour . | |||
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"You’d have to go into more detail on what a white knight is. Maybe some examples? Post is pretty vague. Some people post on here to “suck up” to a certain group. Usually guys sucking up to the popular female forum users in hope of getting noticed. But I dunno if that’s what you call a white knight? " Yes this could be one example, I also gave another in my OP.  | |||
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"Are they a pain in the arse, do you think they are actually snowflakes who quite often get offended by comments that have nothing to do with them and are not recieved by others as offensive. Do you think it's just another tactic to make themselves look good in the slim hope of being one step closer to their Nat King Cole. Personally I think it's all of the above. Tell us your white Knight stories, perhaps your a white Knight and would like to defend your castle , let's hear, now your chance to stand out
You failed at being funny..."You don't know how happy that makes me as I had no intention of being funny. | |||
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"Are they a pain in the arse, do you think they are actually snowflakes who quite often get offended by comments that have nothing to do with them and are not recieved by others as offensive. Do you think it's just another tactic to make themselves look good in the slim hope of being one step closer to their Nat King Cole. Personally I think it's all of the above. Tell us your white Knight stories, perhaps your a white Knight and would like to defend your castle , let's hear, now your chance to stand out "^^ he has a zest for life | |||
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"I think your over thinking it op. isn't whiteknight just a term to try and belittle a person who decides not to join in the kicking frenzy that can occur when a group of people sense weakness and blood in the water and all pile in on mass ." No that would be calling out bullying, my point is when it's a discussion , there is no victim other than the white knight who is offended by proxy. | |||
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"Are they a pain in the arse, do you think they are actually snowflakes who quite often get offended by comments that have nothing to do with them and are not recieved by others as offensive. Do you think it's just another tactic to make themselves look good in the slim hope of being one step closer to their Nat King Cole. Personally I think it's all of the above. Tell us your white Knight stories, perhaps your a white Knight and would like to defend your castle , let's hear, now your chance to stand out
^^ he has a zest for life "Maybe a white knight will jump to your rescue and break down the OP topic so you can join the discussion with a little more "Zest" shall we say. | |||
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"Are they a pain in the arse, do you think they are actually snowflakes who quite often get offended by comments that have nothing to do with them and are not recieved by others as offensive. Do you think it's just another tactic to make themselves look good in the slim hope of being one step closer to their Nat King Cole. Personally I think it's all of the above. Tell us your white Knight stories, perhaps your a white Knight and would like to defend your castle , let's hear, now your chance to stand out
^^ he has a zest for life
Maybe a white knight will jump to your rescue and break down the OP topic so you can join the discussion with a little more "Zest" shall we say. "I was hoping it would be Nat King Cole TBH | |||
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"I think your over thinking it op. isn't whiteknight just a term to try and belittle a person who decides not to join in the kicking frenzy that can occur when a group of people sense weakness and blood in the water and all pile in on mass . No that would be calling out bullying, my point is when it's a discussion , there is no victim other than the white knight who is offended by proxy." Here is the thing op we all have our triggers for what we deam as unexceptaple behavior that we can not stand by ideally and watch . Normally these triggers are to do with how you was nurtured as a child our upbringing if you will . Now the people you choose to refer to as whiteknights have been trigger by something they read and 9 times out 10 generally they are stepping in because they are offend by what's going on . They no full well that they will become the center of the action for a bit for daring to challenge the consensus in such a way .call names like whiteknight told they are only doing it to get a bunk up but do you really no there motives no its just a guess on the part of the person guessing . | |||
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"Henceforth we shall call it a "Caucasian Knight". Forsooth!" Believing they're on the side of right no matter how much they irritate other people? Sounds about white  | |||
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"I think your over thinking it op. isn't whiteknight just a term to try and belittle a person who decides not to join in the kicking frenzy that can occur when a group of people sense weakness and blood in the water and all pile in on mass . No that would be calling out bullying, my point is when it's a discussion , there is no victim other than the white knight who is offended by proxy." ................................ There's a delicious irony in you being offended by people being offended  | |||
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"I think your over thinking it op. isn't whiteknight just a term to try and belittle a person who decides not to join in the kicking frenzy that can occur when a group of people sense weakness and blood in the water and all pile in on mass . No that would be calling out bullying, my point is when it's a discussion , there is no victim other than the white knight who is offended by proxy. ................................ There's a delicious irony in you being offended by people being offended " | |||
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"I think your over thinking it op. isn't whiteknight just a term to try and belittle a person who decides not to join in the kicking frenzy that can occur when a group of people sense weakness and blood in the water and all pile in on mass . No that would be calling out bullying, my point is when it's a discussion , there is no victim other than the white knight who is offended by proxy. Here is the thing op we all have our triggers for what we deam as unexceptaple behavior that we can not stand by ideally and watch . Normally these triggers are to do with how you was nurtured as a child our upbringing if you will . Now the people you choose to refer to as whiteknights have been trigger by something they read and 9 times out 10 generally they are stepping in because they are offend by what's going on . They no full well that they will become the center of the action for a bit for daring to challenge the consensus in such a way .call names like whiteknight told they are only doing it to get a bunk up but do you really no there motives no its just a guess on the part of the person guessing ." And on many many occasions does the person in your post above know or is guessing that what he read is actually offensive or could it just be offensive to him and his upbringing and he thinks he should jump on in there to the defence of someone that never actually asked or required the white knight to do that. See I appreciate your post here but your assumptions on the white knight and his reasoning cuts both ways. The fact the white knight is only guessing that there is a victim is why he shouldn't try to be the white knight in the first place. Your also basically saying the mods cant do their job and hence the forums require white knights to keep people in line so to speak. | |||
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"I think your over thinking it op. isn't whiteknight just a term to try and belittle a person who decides not to join in the kicking frenzy that can occur when a group of people sense weakness and blood in the water and all pile in on mass . No that would be calling out bullying, my point is when it's a discussion , there is no victim other than the white knight who is offended by proxy. ................................ There's a delicious irony in you being offended by people being offended "Haha I'm not being ironic as they most certainly don't offend me . I find them pointless and just use it as another tool to get noticed. That's not me being offended at all. Nice thought process but not on the money this time. Ps not offended by your post either.  | |||
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"I get mixed up with all the different fab sayings. Can someone remind me what this one is again?" If you read thread from the top , down I'm sure you will get the jist of it. If not then be more specific with your question | |||
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"I think your over thinking it op. isn't whiteknight just a term to try and belittle a person who decides not to join in the kicking frenzy that can occur when a group of people sense weakness and blood in the water and all pile in on mass . No that would be calling out bullying, my point is when it's a discussion , there is no victim other than the white knight who is offended by proxy. ................................ There's a delicious irony in you being offended by people being offended
Haha I'm not being ironic as they most certainly don't offend me . I find them pointless and just use it as another tool to get noticed. That's not me being offended at all. Nice thought process but not on the money this time. Ps not offended by your post either. ".................................. I think you doth protest too much, just as you're making arbitrary judgements about what is offending people, you're likely to fall victim to others making a similar judgement about you! | |||
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"Henceforth we shall call it a "Caucasian Knight". Forsooth! Believing they're on the side of right no matter how much they irritate other people? Sounds about white " | |||
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"I think your over thinking it op. isn't whiteknight just a term to try and belittle a person who decides not to join in the kicking frenzy that can occur when a group of people sense weakness and blood in the water and all pile in on mass . No that would be calling out bullying, my point is when it's a discussion , there is no victim other than the white knight who is offended by proxy. ................................ There's a delicious irony in you being offended by people being offended
Haha I'm not being ironic as they most certainly don't offend me . I find them pointless and just use it as another tool to get noticed. That's not me being offended at all. Nice thought process but not on the money this time. Ps not offended by your post either.
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I think you doth protest too much, just as you're making arbitrary judgements about what is offending people, you're likely to fall victim to others making a similar judgement about you!"I think we've entered an idiosyncratic use of "offended" I've come across recently. They get offended, because they're unreasonable. I don't get offended, I get (I don't know, artist formerly known as offended?) because my concerns are valid. It's utter horseshit, of course. | |||
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"I think your over thinking it op. isn't whiteknight just a term to try and belittle a person who decides not to join in the kicking frenzy that can occur when a group of people sense weakness and blood in the water and all pile in on mass . No that would be calling out bullying, my point is when it's a discussion , there is no victim other than the white knight who is offended by proxy. ................................ There's a delicious irony in you being offended by people being offended
Haha I'm not being ironic as they most certainly don't offend me . I find them pointless and just use it as another tool to get noticed. That's not me being offended at all. Nice thought process but not on the money this time. Ps not offended by your post either.
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I think you doth protest too much, just as you're making arbitrary judgements about what is offending people, you're likely to fall victim to others making a similar judgement about you!
I think we've entered an idiosyncratic use of "offended" I've come across recently.
They get offended, because they're unreasonable.
I don't get offended, I get (I don't know, artist formerly known as offended?) because my concerns are valid.
It's utter horseshit, of course."Out of all of the shits, horseshit is probably one of the the least offending. Wait, have I gone off topic?  | |||
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"I get mixed up with all the different fab sayings. Can someone remind me what this one is again? If you read thread from the top , down I'm sure you will get the jist of it. If not then be more specific with your question "I did. This is what confused me. | |||
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"I think your over thinking it op. isn't whiteknight just a term to try and belittle a person who decides not to join in the kicking frenzy that can occur when a group of people sense weakness and blood in the water and all pile in on mass . No that would be calling out bullying, my point is when it's a discussion , there is no victim other than the white knight who is offended by proxy. ................................ There's a delicious irony in you being offended by people being offended
Haha I'm not being ironic as they most certainly don't offend me . I find them pointless and just use it as another tool to get noticed. That's not me being offended at all. Nice thought process but not on the money this time. Ps not offended by your post either.
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I think you doth protest too much, just as you're making arbitrary judgements about what is offending people, you're likely to fall victim to others making a similar judgement about you!
I think we've entered an idiosyncratic use of "offended" I've come across recently.
They get offended, because they're unreasonable.
I don't get offended, I get (I don't know, artist formerly known as offended?) because my concerns are valid.
It's utter horseshit, of course.
Out of all of the shits, horseshit is probably one of the the least offending. Wait, have I gone off topic? " | |||
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"I think your over thinking it op. isn't whiteknight just a term to try and belittle a person who decides not to join in the kicking frenzy that can occur when a group of people sense weakness and blood in the water and all pile in on mass . No that would be calling out bullying, my point is when it's a discussion , there is no victim other than the white knight who is offended by proxy. ................................ There's a delicious irony in you being offended by people being offended
Haha I'm not being ironic as they most certainly don't offend me . I find them pointless and just use it as another tool to get noticed. That's not me being offended at all. Nice thought process but not on the money this time. Ps not offended by your post either.
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I think you doth protest too much, just as you're making arbitrary judgements about what is offending people, you're likely to fall victim to others making a similar judgement about you!"I never protested to much I simply answered your post. 
As for people judging me, meh . It's a swinger site it's not even water off a ducks back its so inconsequential lol. People judge all the time so definitely not worth being offended by that. | |||
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"I think your over thinking it op. isn't whiteknight just a term to try and belittle a person who decides not to join in the kicking frenzy that can occur when a group of people sense weakness and blood in the water and all pile in on mass . No that would be calling out bullying, my point is when it's a discussion , there is no victim other than the white knight who is offended by proxy. ................................ There's a delicious irony in you being offended by people being offended
Haha I'm not being ironic as they most certainly don't offend me . I find them pointless and just use it as another tool to get noticed. That's not me being offended at all. Nice thought process but not on the money this time. Ps not offended by your post either.
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I think you doth protest too much, just as you're making arbitrary judgements about what is offending people, you're likely to fall victim to others making a similar judgement about you!
I think we've entered an idiosyncratic use of "offended" I've come across recently.
They get offended, because they're unreasonable.
I don't get offended, I get (I don't know, artist formerly known as offended?) because my concerns are valid.
It's utter horseshit, of course."OK I'm happy to admit you've taken this thread to a new level which is way above my intellectual level, I'm definitely not embarrassed or offended by my lack of educational fortitude to have a clue if your on my side or having a pop at me.
Perhaps I need a white knight to explain to me what your talking about.  | |||
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"I think your over thinking it op. isn't whiteknight just a term to try and belittle a person who decides not to join in the kicking frenzy that can occur when a group of people sense weakness and blood in the water and all pile in on mass . No that would be calling out bullying, my point is when it's a discussion , there is no victim other than the white knight who is offended by proxy. ................................ There's a delicious irony in you being offended by people being offended
Haha I'm not being ironic as they most certainly don't offend me . I find them pointless and just use it as another tool to get noticed. That's not me being offended at all. Nice thought process but not on the money this time. Ps not offended by your post either.
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I think you doth protest too much, just as you're making arbitrary judgements about what is offending people, you're likely to fall victim to others making a similar judgement about you!
I think we've entered an idiosyncratic use of "offended" I've come across recently.
They get offended, because they're unreasonable.
I don't get offended, I get (I don't know, artist formerly known as offended?) because my concerns are valid.
It's utter horseshit, of course.
OK I'm happy to admit you've taken this thread to a new level which is way above my intellectual level, I'm definitely not embarrassed or offended by my lack of educational fortitude to have a clue if your on my side or having a pop at me.
Perhaps I need a white knight to explain to me what your talking about. "I thought white knight was gendered and only women needed them? | |||
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"OP doesn’t like snowflakes. "It's not that I dislike them I just have no time for them. The world is no place for a snowflake nowadays.  | |||
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"OP doesn’t like snowflakes.
It's not that I dislike them I just have no time for them. The world is no place for a snowflake nowadays. "Global warming and that. | |||
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"I think your over thinking it op. isn't whiteknight just a term to try and belittle a person who decides not to join in the kicking frenzy that can occur when a group of people sense weakness and blood in the water and all pile in on mass . No that would be calling out bullying, my point is when it's a discussion , there is no victim other than the white knight who is offended by proxy. ................................ There's a delicious irony in you being offended by people being offended
Haha I'm not being ironic as they most certainly don't offend me . I find them pointless and just use it as another tool to get noticed. That's not me being offended at all. Nice thought process but not on the money this time. Ps not offended by your post either.
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I think you doth protest too much, just as you're making arbitrary judgements about what is offending people, you're likely to fall victim to others making a similar judgement about you!
I think we've entered an idiosyncratic use of "offended" I've come across recently.
They get offended, because they're unreasonable.
I don't get offended, I get (I don't know, artist formerly known as offended?) because my concerns are valid.
It's utter horseshit, of course.
OK I'm happy to admit you've taken this thread to a new level which is way above my intellectual level, I'm definitely not embarrassed or offended by my lack of educational fortitude to have a clue if your on my side or having a pop at me.
Perhaps I need a white knight to explain to me what your talking about.
I thought white knight was gendered and only women needed them? "Haha no not at all , we all need a little help at times. The difference with my white knight would be that I asked for their help, my post is about the ones that jump into threads uninvited. | |||
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"OP doesn’t like snowflakes.
It's not that I dislike them I just have no time for them. The world is no place for a snowflake nowadays. "So really you are being a bit of a snowflake in reaction to the snowflakes. And you don't see the irony in this at all? | |||
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"OP doesn’t like snowflakes.
It's not that I dislike them I just have no time for them. The world is no place for a snowflake nowadays.
Global warming and that. "I take offence to that, it's climate change actually! | |||
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"OP doesn’t like snowflakes.
It's not that I dislike them I just have no time for them. The world is no place for a snowflake nowadays.
Global warming and that.
I take offence to that, it's climate change actually!"You’re right. I apologise. I’ll get it right next time lol  | |||
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"OP doesn’t like snowflakes.
It's not that I dislike them I just have no time for them. The world is no place for a snowflake nowadays.
Global warming and that. "It's more the "and that" I'm thinking of but we're veering away from those white knight reprobates. | |||
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"OP doesn’t like snowflakes.
It's not that I dislike them I just have no time for them. The world is no place for a snowflake nowadays.
Global warming and that.
I take offence to that, it's climate change actually!
You’re right. I apologise. I’ll get it right next time lol "Strangely this interaction didn’t need me to get upset or rant about you being offended  | |||
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"I think your over thinking it op. isn't whiteknight just a term to try and belittle a person who decides not to join in the kicking frenzy that can occur when a group of people sense weakness and blood in the water and all pile in on mass . No that would be calling out bullying, my point is when it's a discussion , there is no victim other than the white knight who is offended by proxy. ................................ There's a delicious irony in you being offended by people being offended
Haha I'm not being ironic as they most certainly don't offend me . I find them pointless and just use it as another tool to get noticed. That's not me being offended at all. Nice thought process but not on the money this time. Ps not offended by your post either.
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I think you doth protest too much, just as you're making arbitrary judgements about what is offending people, you're likely to fall victim to others making a similar judgement about you!
I think we've entered an idiosyncratic use of "offended" I've come across recently.
They get offended, because they're unreasonable.
I don't get offended, I get (I don't know, artist formerly known as offended?) because my concerns are valid.
It's utter horseshit, of course.
OK I'm happy to admit you've taken this thread to a new level which is way above my intellectual level, I'm definitely not embarrassed or offended by my lack of educational fortitude to have a clue if your on my side or having a pop at me.
Perhaps I need a white knight to explain to me what your talking about.
I thought white knight was gendered and only women needed them?
Haha no not at all , we all need a little help at times. The difference with my white knight would be that I asked for their help, my post is about the ones that jump into threads uninvited. "So you believe that threads are invitation only, that lurkers aren't a thing, and that those who step outside your perceived order should be disparaged? Fascinating. | |||
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"OP doesn’t like snowflakes.
It's not that I dislike them I just have no time for them. The world is no place for a snowflake nowadays.
Global warming and that.
I take offence to that, it's climate change actually!
You’re right. I apologise. I’ll get it right next time lol
Strangely this interaction didn’t need me to get upset or rant about you being offended "Bad snowflake!
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"OP doesn’t like snowflakes.
It's not that I dislike them I just have no time for them. The world is no place for a snowflake nowadays.
Global warming and that.
I take offence to that, it's climate change actually!
You’re right. I apologise. I’ll get it right next time lol
Strangely this interaction didn’t need me to get upset or rant about you being offended "Mind.Is.Blown! | |||
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"OP doesn’t like snowflakes.
It's not that I dislike them I just have no time for them. The world is no place for a snowflake nowadays. "Spending a lot of time debating white knights and/or snowflakes for someone that hasn’t got any time for them. Just an observation, not a judgement. You’re entitled to post about whatever. | |||
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"I think your over thinking it op. isn't whiteknight just a term to try and belittle a person who decides not to join in the kicking frenzy that can occur when a group of people sense weakness and blood in the water and all pile in on mass . No that would be calling out bullying, my point is when it's a discussion , there is no victim other than the white knight who is offended by proxy. ................................ There's a delicious irony in you being offended by people being offended
Haha I'm not being ironic as they most certainly don't offend me . I find them pointless and just use it as another tool to get noticed. That's not me being offended at all. Nice thought process but not on the money this time. Ps not offended by your post either.
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I think you doth protest too much, just as you're making arbitrary judgements about what is offending people, you're likely to fall victim to others making a similar judgement about you!
I never protested to much I simply answered your post.
As for people judging me, meh . It's a swinger site it's not even water off a ducks back its so inconsequential lol. People judge all the time so definitely not worth being offended by that. ".................................. My point is like you the 'white knights' might not be offended by anything or indeed be leaping to the defence of anything, they might just be stating a contrary point of view. The term 'offended' is attached to them by others to devalue that point of view and derail the conversation....just as I'm doing here! | |||
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"OP doesn’t like snowflakes.
It's not that I dislike them I just have no time for them. The world is no place for a snowflake nowadays.
Global warming and that.
I take offence to that, it's climate change actually!
You’re right. I apologise. I’ll get it right next time lol
Strangely this interaction didn’t need me to get upset or rant about you being offended "To be honest Ive seen you sucking up to every woman on the forum at every opportunity. Every time I see you post my teeth start hurting | |||
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"OP doesn’t like snowflakes.
It's not that I dislike them I just have no time for them. The world is no place for a snowflake nowadays.
So really you are being a bit of a snowflake in reaction to the snowflakes. And you don't see the irony in this at all?"Ooh another irony point, ok I played rugby for 20 odd years , I found some people a pain in the arse on the field, I never seen anyone ever get butt hurt over another person's comments and if I had I would have to them to get a grip and get on with the game and I never seen anyone tell another player to behave in the hope a female in the crowd might shag him and if i had id tell him to get on with the game. All these points are in my original post . None of these situations imply im a snowflake lol. Fabs just a different game . Simple as that. Calling out white knighting doesn't make me a snowflake but hey if it makes you feel good I'm happy to take on the label. Lol | |||
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"OP doesn’t like snowflakes.
It's not that I dislike them I just have no time for them. The world is no place for a snowflake nowadays.
So really you are being a bit of a snowflake in reaction to the snowflakes. And you don't see the irony in this at all?
Ooh another irony point, ok I played rugby for 20 odd years , I found some people a pain in the arse on the field, I never seen anyone ever get butt hurt over another person's comments and if I had I would have to them to get a grip and get on with the game and I never seen anyone tell another player to behave in the hope a female in the crowd might shag him and if i had id tell him to get on with the game. All these points are in my original post . None of these situations imply im a snowflake lol. Fabs just a different game . Simple as that. Calling out white knighting doesn't make me a snowflake but hey if it makes you feel good I'm happy to take on the label. Lol"You fit into a certain paradigm of masculinity. Congratulations. None of this precludes emotional fragility, I'm afraid. | |||
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"Is this the guys befriending and warning women off you, they are pretty pathetic " I think it's men posting in ways that favour women in ways the OP thinks is inappropriate | |||
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"OP doesn’t like snowflakes.
It's not that I dislike them I just have no time for them. The world is no place for a snowflake nowadays.
Spending a lot of time debating white knights and/or snowflakes for someone that hasn’t got any time for them. Just an observation, not a judgement. You’re entitled to post about whatever. "I started the thread jimbo so have to assign some time for it . | |||
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"Is this the guys befriending and warning women off you, they are pretty pathetic I think it's men posting in ways that favour women in ways the OP thinks is inappropriate" No there's quite clearly a group of men on here that lie through their teeth to try and come across as superior to other men and side with women on topics they really don't care about hoping they'll get a whiff of fanny. | |||
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"OP doesn’t like snowflakes.
It's not that I dislike them I just have no time for them. The world is no place for a snowflake nowadays.
Global warming and that.
I take offence to that, it's climate change actually!
You’re right. I apologise. I’ll get it right next time lol
Strangely this interaction didn’t need me to get upset or rant about you being offended
To be honest Ive seen you sucking up to every woman on the forum at every opportunity. Every time I see you post my teeth start hurting "Hey!!! I suck up to the men too!!  | |||
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"Is this the guys befriending and warning women off you, they are pretty pathetic I think it's men posting in ways that favour women in ways the OP thinks is inappropriate No there's quite clearly a group of men on here that lie through their teeth to try and come across as superior to other men and side with women on topics they really don't care about hoping they'll get a whiff of fanny. " That would seem to imply that you think women are stupid to fall for such things, and men are incapable of a genuine range of reactions and emotions. I hold both women and men in higher esteem. I'm sorry that you don't. It must be emotionally corrosive. | |||
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"Is this the guys befriending and warning women off you, they are pretty pathetic I think it's men posting in ways that favour women in ways the OP thinks is inappropriate No there's quite clearly a group of men on here that lie through their teeth to try and come across as superior to other men and side with women on topics they really don't care about hoping they'll get a whiff of fanny. " God forbid a man has opinions on things. All we want is to get our dicks wet | |||
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"Is this the guys befriending and warning women off you, they are pretty pathetic I think it's men posting in ways that favour women in ways the OP thinks is inappropriate" Not at all its about anyone male or female jumping to the defence of another when it's simply their own level of values that have been breached. The perceived victim may not even get a chance to reply , may not even be offended but is now in a situation where the fel they may have to act offended as they now don't wish to offend the white knight by saying mind your own business. | |||
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"Is this the guys befriending and warning women off you, they are pretty pathetic I think it's men posting in ways that favour women in ways the OP thinks is inappropriate No there's quite clearly a group of men on here that lie through their teeth to try and come across as superior to other men and side with women on topics they really don't care about hoping they'll get a whiff of fanny. That would seem to imply that you think women are stupid to fall for such things, and men are incapable of a genuine range of reactions and emotions. I hold both women and men in higher esteem. I'm sorry that you don't. It must be emotionally corrosive." Well that's quite a presumptive story you've made up. Great imagination 10/10 for effort. | |||
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"If a man sticks up for a woman he's a white knight just desperate to get his cock wet. If a man doesn't stick up for a woman he's an evil uncaring bastard. " pretty much | |||
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"Is this the guys befriending and warning women off you, they are pretty pathetic I think it's men posting in ways that favour women in ways the OP thinks is inappropriate No there's quite clearly a group of men on here that lie through their teeth to try and come across as superior to other men and side with women on topics they really don't care about hoping they'll get a whiff of fanny. God forbid a man has opinions on things. All we want is to get our dicks wet "I'm sorry I overestimated you and thought you had a brain, feelings, and anything other than raging horn | |||
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"On the flip side of the coin are those who leave negative comments on every thread you post on because you’ve knocked them back. A bit like pulling the girls hair in the playground because you fancy her and she doesn’t want you. That happens "I’ve noticed that too | |||
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"On the flip side of the coin are those who leave negative comments on every thread you post on because you’ve knocked them back. A bit like pulling the girls hair in the playground because you fancy her and she doesn’t want you. That happens "Negative comments are just a part of life , if that changes to abusive comments then you have the report avenues to go down. If a person can't cope with Negative comments on a swinger site then perhaps it's not the best environment for that person . | |||
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"Is this the guys befriending and warning women off you, they are pretty pathetic I think it's men posting in ways that favour women in ways the OP thinks is inappropriate No there's quite clearly a group of men on here that lie through their teeth to try and come across as superior to other men and side with women on topics they really don't care about hoping they'll get a whiff of fanny. That would seem to imply that you think women are stupid to fall for such things, and men are incapable of a genuine range of reactions and emotions. I hold both women and men in higher esteem. I'm sorry that you don't. It must be emotionally corrosive." I’m not so sure. I like to see the best in people and often 1-2-1 and in person they are very decent people , but on here and in the little popularity groups , the worst comes out, there are some very insecure and needy people make and female who go to extremes to be liked | |||
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"Is this the guys befriending and warning women off you, they are pretty pathetic I think it's men posting in ways that favour women in ways the OP thinks is inappropriate No there's quite clearly a group of men on here that lie through their teeth to try and come across as superior to other men and side with women on topics they really don't care about hoping they'll get a whiff of fanny. That would seem to imply that you think women are stupid to fall for such things, and men are incapable of a genuine range of reactions and emotions. I hold both women and men in higher esteem. I'm sorry that you don't. It must be emotionally corrosive. I’m not so sure. I like to see the best in people and often 1-2-1 and in person they are very decent people , but on here and in the little popularity groups , the worst comes out, there are some very insecure and needy people make and female who go to extremes to be liked " I'm aware that people go to extremes, and that behaviour runs the gamut from good to bad. But I wouldn't dream of saying that all or even most men are that stunted as human beings. Nor most or all women that stupid. I think most or all men possess a full range of opinions and emotions not just attached to their penis. I think most or all women can see through people pretending to agree with them. | |||
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"I knew of a knight who was afraid to fight he was called Sir Render"
You win | |||
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"Is this the guys befriending and warning women off you, they are pretty pathetic I think it's men posting in ways that favour women in ways the OP thinks is inappropriate No there's quite clearly a group of men on here that lie through their teeth to try and come across as superior to other men and side with women on topics they really don't care about hoping they'll get a whiff of fanny. That would seem to imply that you think women are stupid to fall for such things, and men are incapable of a genuine range of reactions and emotions. I hold both women and men in higher esteem. I'm sorry that you don't. It must be emotionally corrosive. I’m not so sure. I like to see the best in people and often 1-2-1 and in person they are very decent people , but on here and in the little popularity groups , the worst comes out, there are some very insecure and needy people make and female who go to extremes to be liked " | |||
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"I probably stick up for the men more than the women on here. Am I the female equivalent of a white knight I wonder? Maybe I want to get into all their tighty whiteys "Well I dont have any so called "tight whiteys" so it sucks to be you!... ...Wait, did I just say that? | |||
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"I am finding myself to be deeply and mortally offended on behalf of any ladies who are offended on this thread…. Do I get a shag now? " You've definitely upped your chances | |||
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"Hahaha the white knights The over complimenters Oh how I wish I could be saved and praised "Shut up you! Does the be mean, keep them keen routine work for white knight haters? | |||
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"Is this the guys befriending and warning women off you, they are pretty pathetic I think it's men posting in ways that favour women in ways the OP thinks is inappropriate No there's quite clearly a group of men on here that lie through their teeth to try and come across as superior to other men and side with women on topics they really don't care about hoping they'll get a whiff of fanny. " I'd have to say I agree. I don't think anyone has ever white-knighted me, but I do roll my eyes when I see men doing it. I'd also say there's a difference between this behaviour and men just agreeing with what a woman has said because...they agree with what she's said. | |||
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"Hahaha the white knights The over complimenters Oh how I wish I could be saved and praised "Do you? Do you really? I'm not one of those who is seen to need praising and complimenting wildly and I am damn glad of it. | |||
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"Hahaha the white knights The over complimenters Oh how I wish I could be saved and praised
Shut up you!
Does the be mean, keep them keen routine work for white knight haters?"Is this good natured joshing? | |||
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"Hahaha the white knights The over complimenters Oh how I wish I could be saved and praised
Do you? Do you really? I'm not one of those who is seen to need praising and complimenting wildly and I am damn glad of it. "Noooo I’m being utterly sarcastic!! I miss being known for my wit on here | |||
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"Hahaha the white knights The over complimenters Oh how I wish I could be saved and praised
Shut up you!
Does the be mean, keep them keen routine work for white knight haters?"That’s kinda rude - unless you’re from London | |||
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"Hahaha the white knights The over complimenters Oh how I wish I could be saved and praised
Shut up you!
Does the be mean, keep them keen routine work for white knight haters?
Is this good natured joshing?"Who’s Josh? | |||
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"Hahaha the white knights The over complimenters Oh how I wish I could be saved and praised
Shut up you!
Does the be mean, keep them keen routine work for white knight haters?
That’s kinda rude - unless you’re from London "I’ve been to London if that counts. | |||
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"Hahaha the white knights The over complimenters Oh how I wish I could be saved and praised
Do you? Do you really? I'm not one of those who is seen to need praising and complimenting wildly and I am damn glad of it.
Noooo I’m being utterly sarcastic!!
I miss being known for my wit on here "I thought you were, don't worry | |||
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"Hahaha the white knights The over complimenters Oh how I wish I could be saved and praised
Do you? Do you really? I'm not one of those who is seen to need praising and complimenting wildly and I am damn glad of it.
Noooo I’m being utterly sarcastic!!
I miss being known for my wit on here
I thought you were, don't worry "
I knew you were a ‘bit of me’ | |||
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"I’ve called out racism a few times over the bank holiday weekend. If that makes me a snowflake or a white knight or whatever other term people throw around then so be it. I will always continue to call out shitty behaviour. On the flip side I have quite a dark sense of humour so sometimes my jokes can be taken the wrong way and I’m happy to be called out if I offend anyone." That’s definitely not being a snow flake shitty behaviour like that should always get called out . Their are posts where certain men will ignore everything else that’s been written and zone in on the popular woman regardless of if she’s right or wrong. If it works for them then good luck to them . | |||
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"I’ve called out racism a few times over the bank holiday weekend. If that makes me a snowflake or a white knight or whatever other term people throw around then so be it. I will always continue to call out shitty behaviour. On the flip side I have quite a dark sense of humour so sometimes my jokes can be taken the wrong way and I’m happy to be called out if I offend anyone.That’s definitely not being a snow flake shitty behaviour like that should always get called out . Their are posts where certain men will ignore everything else that’s been written and zone in on the popular woman regardless of if she’s right or wrong. If it works for them then good luck to them ." I’m not here to get my dick wet so I guess that’s not me. | |||
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"I know Michael Knight if that counts? He had a shit perm though so didn’t like him that much. " He also had a strange relationship with his car. I’ve seen a documentary about men like that | |||
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"I know Michael Knight if that counts? He had a shit perm though so didn’t like him that much. " Ahhh …. Those were the days , and it was a natural curl too | |||
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"Whats your definition of a white knight? Someone who ignores the topic and jumps to the defence of another forum user as they don't like or is offended by something they have read , even when it is being discussed rationally by the white nights perceived victim of said comment. Or again a female makes an absolute ridiculous comment on the forums and the white Knight jumps in and agrees with said stupid comment to gain favour . "Ah I get it. Seeking triangulation.
You tell us, in a thread I pulled you on your attitude, you had taken offence to something nobody else had.
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"I know Michael Knight if that counts? He had a shit perm though so didn’t like him that much. " Airwolf was far better imo | |||
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"I know Michael Knight if that counts? He had a shit perm though so didn’t like him that much. He also had a strange relationship with his car. I’ve seen a documentary about men like that "Shagging tailpipes  | |||
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"I know Michael Knight if that counts? He had a shit perm though so didn’t like him that much. Ahhh …. Those were the days , and it was a natural curl too " He must of ate his crusts  | |||
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I have no issue with people who genuinely agree with others on here that's different.
White knighting takes it to a whole new level and is usually as fake as the horse they ride in on. I find it a massive turn off when someone is a white knight.
I prefer a man who can think for himself and has no problem putting his point across without resorting to personal insults and who doesn't suffer from fanny blindness. | |||
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"I knew of a knight who was afraid to fight he was called Sir Render
You win "Had to inject some humour | |||
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“Mike the Knight, he's a brave young hero!
Be a knight, do it right!
He's a training knight, but does he show fear?
NO!…” | |||
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"Whats your definition of a white knight? Someone who ignores the topic and jumps to the defence of another forum user as they don't like or is offended by something they have read , even when it is being discussed rationally by the white nights perceived victim of said comment. Or again a female makes an absolute ridiculous comment on the forums and the white Knight jumps in and agrees with said stupid comment to gain favour . "I call those Goldfish because they defend one woman and after a couple of laps of the bowl they jump back in to take the side of another woman with an opinion from the other extreme. | |||
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"Henceforth we shall call it a "Caucasian Knight". Forsooth! Believing they're on the side of right no matter how much they irritate other people? Sounds about white "° Well, duckie, I didn't want to risk calling them "Privileged Knights" | |||
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"So are white knights simply suck ups? "Apparently so, but the jury still seems to be out on what actually defines a "white knight" | |||
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"I know Michael Knight if that counts? He had a shit perm though so didn’t like him that much. Airwolf was far better imo "Stop. You've gone too far now. | |||
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"I know Michael Knight if that counts? He had a shit perm though so didn’t like him that much. Airwolf was far better imo
Stop. You've gone too far now."
The theme tune was bangin'! | |||
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"What about Black Knight with Martin Lawrence?" I like Martin Lawrence. He’s funny. | |||
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"I know Michael Knight if that counts? He had a shit perm though so didn’t like him that much. Airwolf was far better imo
Stop. You've gone too far now.
The theme tune was bangin'!"Dr Google has reminded me how good the Airwolf opening sequence was, but still not a patch on KR for me. Sure how a white knight can come in and back me up on this if I need it... | |||
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"What about Black Knight with Martin Lawrence? I like Martin Lawrence. He’s funny. " I love him. That film not so much | |||
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"So are white knights simply suck ups?
Apparently so, but the jury still seems to be out on what actually defines a "white knight""Well it's my thread so I get to say what a white knight is and I conveyed that in my first few messages so there. | |||
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"I don't think anyone has ever white-knighted me, but I do roll my eyes when I see men doing it. I'd also say there's a difference between this behaviour and men just agreeing with what a woman has said because...they agree with what she's said. "• I don't know about any of you gentlefolk but I wholeheartedly, obsequiously and sycophantically agree with her.  | |||
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"So are white knights simply suck ups?
Apparently so, but the jury still seems to be out on what actually defines a "white knight"
Well it's my thread so I get to say what a white knight is and I conveyed that in my first few messages so there. "Ahh yes, the "suits me" rule. So if you are the definer, why bother to even start a thread in the first place? Or was it just to rant and out any potential "white knights" from the forum ranks? | |||
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"So are white knights simply suck ups?
Apparently so, but the jury still seems to be out on what actually defines a "white knight"
Well it's my thread so I get to say what a white knight is and I conveyed that in my first few messages so there.
Ahh yes, the "suits me" rule. So if you are the definer, why bother to even start a thread in the first place? Or was it just to rant and out any potential "white knights" from the forum ranks?"How dare you question zestforlife and his definitions. Am I doing it right? | |||
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"So are white knights simply suck ups?
Apparently so, but the jury still seems to be out on what actually defines a "white knight"
Well it's my thread so I get to say what a white knight is and I conveyed that in my first few messages so there.
Ahh yes, the "suits me" rule. So if you are the definer, why bother to even start a thread in the first place? Or was it just to rant and out any potential "white knights" from the forum ranks?
How dare you question zestforlife and his definitions.
Am I doing it right?"You did it beautifully! | |||
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"So are white knights simply suck ups?
Apparently so, but the jury still seems to be out on what actually defines a "white knight"
Well it's my thread so I get to say what a white knight is and I conveyed that in my first few messages so there.
Ahh yes, the "suits me" rule. So if you are the definer, why bother to even start a thread in the first place? Or was it just to rant and out any potential "white knights" from the forum ranks?
How dare you question zestforlife and his definitions.
Am I doing it right?
You did it beautifully!"Do I get a badge? | |||
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"So are white knights simply suck ups?
Apparently so, but the jury still seems to be out on what actually defines a "white knight"
Well it's my thread so I get to say what a white knight is and I conveyed that in my first few messages so there.
Ahh yes, the "suits me" rule. So if you are the definer, why bother to even start a thread in the first place? Or was it just to rant and out any potential "white knights" from the forum ranks?
How dare you question zestforlife and his definitions.
Am I doing it right?
You did it beautifully!
Do I get a badge?"Yes, it's pale coloured chess piece... | |||
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"So are white knights simply suck ups?
Apparently so, but the jury still seems to be out on what actually defines a "white knight"
Well it's my thread so I get to say what a white knight is and I conveyed that in my first few messages so there.
Ahh yes, the "suits me" rule. So if you are the definer, why bother to even start a thread in the first place? Or was it just to rant and out any potential "white knights" from the forum ranks?
How dare you question zestforlife and his definitions.
Am I doing it right?
You did it beautifully!
Do I get a badge?
Yes, it's pale coloured chess piece..."Does this mean I can only move in L shaped movements from now on? | |||
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"OP doesn’t like snowflakes. "I snowflakes especially when there is enough to build a snowperson x | |||
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"I think some guts are damned if they do and dammed if they don't. I've seen guys been accused of bullying when they've strongly disagreed with a female and white knighting when they've stuck up for her. Thankfully I don’t give a fuck for bullies and am not a damsel in need of a knight." *guys not guts. | |||
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"So are white knights simply suck ups?
Apparently so, but the jury still seems to be out on what actually defines a "white knight"
Well it's my thread so I get to say what a white knight is and I conveyed that in my first few messages so there.
Ahh yes, the "suits me" rule. So if you are the definer, why bother to even start a thread in the first place? Or was it just to rant and out any potential "white knights" from the forum ranks?
How dare you question zestforlife and his definitions.
Am I doing it right?
You did it beautifully!
Do I get a badge?
Yes, it's pale coloured chess piece...
Does this mean I can only move in L shaped movements from now on?"I'm afraid so, and if you dont I'll know | |||
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"Hahaha the white knights The over complimenters Oh how I wish I could be saved and praised
Shut up you!
Does the be mean, keep them keen routine work for white knight haters?
Is this good natured jousting?"Fixed that for you  | |||
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"Hahaha the white knights The over complimenters Oh how I wish I could be saved and praised
Shut up you!
Does the be mean, keep them keen routine work for white knight haters?
Is this good natured jousting?
Fixed that for you "Touchè my friend, touchè | |||
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"Yes, utter wankers, one and all. It’s actually hilarious, especially on here, and especially in the chat room. They run wild if they’re in with the ‘regular crowd’ as the moderators let them crack on. It barely registers as I’m not in the slightest arsed about chat room ‘acceptance’, but they do ride wild and free in every lobby " Ooohhh somebody needs a snickers | |||
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"Yes, utter wankers, one and all. It’s actually hilarious, especially on here, and especially in the chat room. They run wild if they’re in with the ‘regular crowd’ as the moderators let them crack on. It barely registers as I’m not in the slightest arsed about chat room ‘acceptance’, but they do ride wild and free in every lobby Ooohhh somebody needs a snickers "Me me | |||
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"Yes, utter wankers, one and all. It’s actually hilarious, especially on here, and especially in the chat room. They run wild if they’re in with the ‘regular crowd’ as the moderators let them crack on. It barely registers as I’m not in the slightest arsed about chat room ‘acceptance’, but they do ride wild and free in every lobby Ooohhh somebody needs a snickers
Me me"I’ll swap for your knickers | |||
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"What about Black Knight with Martin Lawrence? I like Martin Lawrence. He’s funny. I love him. That film not so much "He’s great. I’ve not seen the film though | |||
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"Yes, utter wankers, one and all. It’s actually hilarious, especially on here, and especially in the chat room. They run wild if they’re in with the ‘regular crowd’ as the moderators let them crack on. It barely registers as I’m not in the slightest arsed about chat room ‘acceptance’, but they do ride wild and free in every lobby Ooohhh somebody needs a snickers "Or a Lidl copy. God they're good. | |||
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"Yes, utter wankers, one and all. It’s actually hilarious, especially on here, and especially in the chat room. They run wild if they’re in with the ‘regular crowd’ as the moderators let them crack on. It barely registers as I’m not in the slightest arsed about chat room ‘acceptance’, but they do ride wild and free in every lobby Ooohhh somebody needs a snickers
Or a Lidl copy. God they're good. "A Lidl snickers?? WTF are they called? | |||
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"What about Black Knight with Martin Lawrence? I like Martin Lawrence. He’s funny. I love him. That film not so much
He’s great. I’ve not seen the film though "Blue Streak was one of my favourite films when I was younger. He’s hilarious in that. | |||
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"Yes, utter wankers, one and all. It’s actually hilarious, especially on here, and especially in the chat room. They run wild if they’re in with the ‘regular crowd’ as the moderators let them crack on. It barely registers as I’m not in the slightest arsed about chat room ‘acceptance’, but they do ride wild and free in every lobby Ooohhh somebody needs a snickers
Or a Lidl copy. God they're good.
A Lidl snickers?? WTF are they called? "Er Choco-nut bars? I think. All the supermarkets do their own version and they're better than Snickers! | |||
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"What about Black Knight with Martin Lawrence? I like Martin Lawrence. He’s funny. I love him. That film not so much
He’s great. I’ve not seen the film though
Blue Streak was one of my favourite films when I was younger. He’s hilarious in that. "Growing up for me it was big mama’s house and Bad boys of course.
Never watched Martin but I’ve heard so many good things and seen clips on social media. | |||
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"Yes, utter wankers, one and all. It’s actually hilarious, especially on here, and especially in the chat room. They run wild if they’re in with the ‘regular crowd’ as the moderators let them crack on. It barely registers as I’m not in the slightest arsed about chat room ‘acceptance’, but they do ride wild and free in every lobby Ooohhh somebody needs a snickers
Or a Lidl copy. God they're good.
A Lidl snickers?? WTF are they called?
Er Choco-nut bars? I think. All the supermarkets do their own version and they're better than Snickers!"Not if you're coeliac. Snickers are gluten free, Lidls version is not. | |||
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"What about Black Knight with Martin Lawrence? I like Martin Lawrence. He’s funny. I love him. That film not so much
He’s great. I’ve not seen the film though
Blue Streak was one of my favourite films when I was younger. He’s hilarious in that.
Growing up for me it was big mama’s house and Bad boys of course.
Never watched Martin but I’ve heard so many good things and seen clips on social media. "I think they started showing that on Trouble just as I was getting a bit too old for teenage TV but I caught a few episodes. Very funny but I don’t think it has aged well | |||
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"Yes, utter wankers, one and all. It’s actually hilarious, especially on here, and especially in the chat room. They run wild if they’re in with the ‘regular crowd’ as the moderators let them crack on. It barely registers as I’m not in the slightest arsed about chat room ‘acceptance’, but they do ride wild and free in every lobby Ooohhh somebody needs a snickers
Or a Lidl copy. God they're good.
A Lidl snickers?? WTF are they called?
Er Choco-nut bars? I think. All the supermarkets do their own version and they're better than Snickers!
Not if you're coeliac. Snickers are gluten free, Lidls version is not. "Ok. Well I'm sure a coeliac would check the ingredients before trying something new? I was just replying to Rex. | |||
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"Ironically I think people who tend to call out other men as white nights tend to be the ones who believe the poor, naive women need saving from said white nights. " We always need saving. Us helpless maidens. And then fucking....I am assuming | |||
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"Ironically I think people who tend to call out other men as white nights tend to be the ones who believe the poor, naive women need saving from said white nights. " | |||
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"Ironically I think people who tend to call out other men as white nights tend to be the ones who believe the poor, naive women need saving from said white nights. " Who said men have the monopoly of being white knights and who said the victims are women. ? | |||
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"Is there anyone in here that needs saving? I can't be bothered to read it all . . . ." Yes, me please. A tower of moving boxes is about to topple onto me.  | |||
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"Is there anyone in here that needs saving? I can't be bothered to read it all . . . . Yes, me please. A tower of moving boxes is about to topple onto me. "Stay strong, I have Jenga skills. Boxes will be no issue | |||
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"Is there anyone in here that needs saving? I can't be bothered to read it all . . . . Yes, me please. A tower of moving boxes is about to topple onto me.
Stay strong, I have Jenga skills. Boxes will be no issue"(Swoons) My hero! | |||
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"Is there anyone in here that needs saving? I can't be bothered to read it all . . . ." Me! Please | |||
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"Is there anyone in here that needs saving? I can't be bothered to read it all . . . . Me! Please "One at time. Form an orderly queue | |||
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"Is there anyone in here that needs saving? I can't be bothered to read it all . . . . Me! Please "I was FIRST! And I'm a GIRL! | |||
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"Is there anyone in here that needs saving? I can't be bothered to read it all . . . . Me! Please
One at time. Form an orderly queue"I can wait for you | |||
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"So what's a black knight?" A film with Martin Lawrence. | |||
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"Is there anyone in here that needs saving? I can't be bothered to read it all . . . . Me! Please
I was FIRST! And I'm a GIRL! "No problem | |||
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"Is there anyone in here that needs saving? I can't be bothered to read it all . . . . Me! Please
I was FIRST! And I'm a GIRL! "Ladies first | |||
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"So what's a black knight? A film with Martin Lawrence. " Snorted | |||
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"Is there anyone in here that needs saving? I can't be bothered to read it all . . . . Me! Please
I was FIRST! And I'm a GIRL!
No problem "Awww | |||
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"So what's a black knight? A film with Martin Lawrence. " | |||
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"Ironically I think people who tend to call out other men as white nights tend to be the ones who believe the poor, naive women need saving from said white nights. " True this….. This basically jist sometimes if you are a tit… and you get called out for being a tit… it’s an easy label to throw around…. The real answer would be to stop being a tit! But that calls for accountability which they don’t always like | |||
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"Ironically I think people who tend to call out other men as white nights tend to be the ones who believe the poor, naive women need saving from said white nights. " This is complicated stuff being a white knight. Perhaps they should be given more credit. | |||
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"Ironically I think people who tend to call out other men as white nights tend to be the ones who believe the poor, naive women need saving from said white nights. This is complicated stuff being a white knight. Perhaps they should be given more credit." It’s not that hard- I’ve been doing it and not even realising. | |||
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"Ironically I think people who tend to call out other men as white nights tend to be the ones who believe the poor, naive women need saving from said white nights. This is complicated stuff being a white knight. Perhaps they should be given more credit. It’s not that hard- I’ve been doing it and not even realising. " Some might say you're a master? Is that a black belt white knight? | |||
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"Ironically I think people who tend to call out other men as white nights tend to be the ones who believe the poor, naive women need saving from said white nights. True this….. This basically jist sometimes if you are a tit… and you get called out for being a tit… it’s an easy label to throw around…. The real answer would be to stop being a tit! But that calls for accountability which they don’t always like " | |||
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"Ironically I think people who tend to call out other men as white nights tend to be the ones who believe the poor, naive women need saving from said white nights. This is complicated stuff being a white knight. Perhaps they should be given more credit. It’s not that hard- I’ve been doing it and not even realising. Some might say you're a master? Is that a black belt white knight? " supposedly so. | |||
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"Ironically I think people who tend to call out other men as white nights tend to be the ones who believe the poor, naive women need saving from said white nights. This is complicated stuff being a white knight. Perhaps they should be given more credit. It’s not that hard- I’ve been doing it and not even realising. Some might say you're a master? Is that a black belt white knight? " Or Steve has a Black Belt in White Knighting? | |||
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"Life's too short to be worrying about shit like that. " Exactly. If people want to be sycophants let them at it. Most people will see through it. | |||
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