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afganistan is it time
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"Apart from fighting terroism i'm still unsure as to what their actually there for. Even the commanders of the Armed Forces have stated there is no long term strategy in place which isn't a good thing. Undermanned, lack of equipment and fighting with and for an Afghan government which is both corrupt and hated by their own people. Bring the lads back!" They are there because we follow all the feck ups America make. the time to bring them back passed a long time ago IMO. | |||
"Apart from fighting terroism i'm still unsure as to what their actually there for. Even the commanders of the Armed Forces have stated there is no long term strategy in place which isn't a good thing. Undermanned, lack of equipment and fighting with and for an Afghan government which is both corrupt and hated by their own people. Bring the lads back! They are there because we follow all the feck ups America make. the time to bring them back passed a long time ago IMO." Impeach Tony B Liar  | |||
"Apart from fighting terroism i'm still unsure as to what their actually there for. Even the commanders of the Armed Forces have stated there is no long term strategy in place which isn't a good thing. Undermanned, lack of equipment and fighting with and for an Afghan government which is both corrupt and hated by their own people. It does seem that way doesn't it. Maybe it's still about oil and developing a position of influence in the Middle East. Sabre rattling against Iran does make me wonder if they will be next on the list. Bring the lads back! They are there because we follow all the feck ups America make. the time to bring them back passed a long time ago IMO." | |||
"Impeach Tony B Liar "Impeach him ? The bastard should be impailed .. | |||
"Impeach Tony B Liar
Impeach him ?
The bastard should be impailed .."I second that!!!!!! | |||
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 ..i agree that all this shud stop but at the end of the day people join the forces to do a job and im afraid that ppl loosing there lives can be part of their job all we can do is support them xxx | |||
"my hubby is over there now and has been since july! our friend was killed out there 4wks ago his funeral was fri ..i agree that all this shud stop but at the end of the day people join the forces to do a job and im afraid that ppl loosing there lives can be part of their job all we can do is support them xxx"that makes a lot of sence so lets just give all the lads and lases are full support as long as there out there and even more when they get back!!!! | |||
"my hubby is over there now and has been since july! our friend was killed out there 4wks ago his funeral was fri ..i agree that all this shud stop but at the end of the day people join the forces to do a job and im afraid that ppl loosing there lives can be part of their job all we can do is support them xxx"hug for you minx...my friends son was killed on 29th october 2005 out there ..such a long time to be losing lives . xxx | |||
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 ..yeah it is such a lng time and so many lives xxx | |||
 . Each is a tragedy in its own right but that's about the number killed in the first five minutes at the Somme.
OK, the threat from al-Qaeda and the Taliban is based a bit further away than Flanders but the means of bringing that threat to the Twin Towers or the London subway or Glasgow Airport is a lot more sophisticated than it was in 1916. | |||
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"Too damn right we're blaming Blair!!!! " Why? | |||
"It all comes down to denying the terrorists a place to train, fundraise and equip. There are problems in Pakistan too, and that country has nukes!!! If we do not stop Al Quaeda / the Taliban now, they could gain support, strength and then try to take over Afghanistan, and then use it (and its opium fields) to generate cash, strengthen their position, and then take over Pakistan..... do you really want to take the chance that that could happen? Remember, the stated aim of Al Quaeda is to convert "everyone" to Islam..... if we dont stop them now, we may regret it in 10 years time." But if the Soviet Union could not defeat the Afghans in a full on, long term conventional conflict then how can we hope to win? Our armed forces have their hands tied with a lack of equipment (which sees troops buying their own equipment from Army Surplus stores and the general public donating items to send out for our lads), there is little long term strategic planning in place, we are not winning the hearts and minds of the Afghan people and those that do like us are often murdered and for all the Taliban we kill we are still making little impact on the 'terrorist' threat. Afghanistan for many centuries has been a country in conflict with infighting between various tribes, religions and foreign powers going on all the time and that will not change for a long long time. What will happen when we declare victory and pull our troops out....the Taliban will merely reappear, just like the Vietcong did in Vietnam. Also it was always the Taliban who severly punished those who grew/traded in opium and it was infact the American CIA who had a major hand in opium distribution. This whole idea that the Taliban are using Opium to develop funds is probably media propaganda. The Americans have also have been responsible for many many terrorist attacks themselves so the American government are not exactly blameless in this department. I doubt very much if the Taliban are a threat to Pakistan; it's possible i guess but i would imagine the biggest threat for Pakistan would be from a conflict with India. I agree we need to combat the world wide terrorist threat but i don't see the Afghan conflict bringing us any nearer to doing that. It really is a tough situation without an end in sight. | |||
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"ive just come back from a 7 month tour over there where i lost some very good friends. the people to blame are the government noone else " take me hat off to ya m8 must of been very hard unsung heros the lot of yous glad ya made it home safe | |||
" OK, the threat from al-Qaeda and the Taliban is based a bit further away than Flanders but the means of bringing that threat to the Twin Towers or the London subway or Glasgow Airport is a lot more sophisticated than it was in 1916." This is an aysemmetric war. We, along with 40 other countries, fight the dissident element on their own territory, to keep them off ours. Do we let Al-Queda and the Taliban roam free to bring about another Twin Towers or another 7/7 on the London transport system? Of course we don't, we fight to free the repressed of Afghanistan, we fight to allow women freedom and to give children an education and a future. We fight to try and ensure that Britain is never again held in the grip of a new terrorism. As for the questions about kitting out our military, don't blame those working to get them the kit/vehicles/ammunition they need. It's shipped out as fast as it is made. But it has to be tested to ensure that it's 150% capable of doing the correct job and thats a lengthy process sometimes. Unfortunately, Afghanistan is a desert war with an enemy that doesn't fight in a conventional way. It's a war fought in mainly desert, with only 1 real road, where men have to walk and fight in alleyways that you can't get a vehicle through. It's a hot and tough war but the people supplying the equipment are trying very hard to keep up with an ever changing battle (and to repair everything that comes back full of sand!) and get it back out as soon as possible. And don't think that those who work for the military but don't fight, don't feel pain when soldiers die, or don't feel overwhelming sadness when they see the very young men getting ready to leave for a tour, because it breaks their hearts. But we are in Afghanistan for a reason and it's not because of the American's. I know a fair few soldiers who have been killed or severly injured and it hurts more each time to know that it's happening........ but thats the point, it's happening. I'd rather show my overwhelming support for the men and women going out to war than to sit, whinging about the politicians. | |||
" OK, the threat from al-Qaeda and the Taliban is based a bit further away than Flanders but the means of bringing that threat to the Twin Towers or the London subway or Glasgow Airport is a lot more sophisticated than it was in 1916. This is an aysemmetric war. We, along with 40 other countries, fight the dissident element on their own territory, to keep them off ours. Do we let Al-Queda and the Taliban roam free to bring about another Twin Towers or another 7/7 on the London transport system? Of course we don't, we fight to free the repressed of Afghanistan, we fight to allow women freedom and to give children an education and a future. We fight to try and ensure that Britain is never again held in the grip of a new terrorism. As for the questions about kitting out our military, don't blame those working to get them the kit/vehicles/ammunition they need. It's shipped out as fast as it is made. But it has to be tested to ensure that it's 150% capable of doing the correct job and thats a lengthy process sometimes. Unfortunately, Afghanistan is a desert war with an enemy that doesn't fight in a conventional way. It's a war fought in mainly desert, with only 1 real road, where men have to walk and fight in alleyways that you can't get a vehicle through. It's a hot and tough war but the people supplying the equipment are trying very hard to keep up with an ever changing battle (and to repair everything that comes back full of sand!) and get it back out as soon as possible. And don't think that those who work for the military but don't fight, don't feel pain when soldiers die, or don't feel overwhelming sadness when they see the very young men getting ready to leave for a tour, because it breaks their hearts. But we are in Afghanistan for a reason and it's not because of the American's. I know a fair few soldiers who have been killed or severly injured and it hurts more each time to know that it's happening........ but thats the point, it's happening. I'd rather show my overwhelming support for the men and women going out to war than to sit, whinging about the politicians." here here. couldnt have put it better. | |||
" Do we let Al-Queda and the Taliban roam free to bring about another Twin Towers or another 7/7 on the London transport system? " Think it is worth pointing out that 7/7 happened in 2005 and we invaded the sovereign nation of Afghanistan in 2002!! If someone invaded or tried to invade the UK, you would all be screaming for retribution!! It has even been claimed that intelligence says the attack on London would never have happened if we hadn't followed America like sheep! For years, apart from the IRA who had a particular axe to grind with the UK government, not one of the many terrorist groups who had offices in London attacked the UK! That is a fact accepted by the security services. We even gave clerics a hard time and nothing! We go into Afghanistan and 7/7! I think that we should do as that guy suggested the other day... Pull the boys and girls out and spend the money saved on watching our borders and proper security! | |||
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"I think we can argue the logistics and whose to blame till the cows come home. And will never agree. So maybe we can just remember those fighting and those who gave their lives, be it present day and in past wars . " Well said Peaches! | |||
" This is an aysemmetric war. We, along with 40 other countries, fight the dissident element on their own territory, to keep them off ours. Do we let Al-Queda and the Taliban roam free to bring about another Twin Towers or another 7/7 on the London transport system?" There are apparently more foreign members making up the Taliban and Al-Queda than there is Afghan, so we cannot say were really fighting an enemy on their own territory. The fact is there is a large element of these terrorist organisations situated in this region and it is where the various political powers chose to undertake their war. We must also look at the reasons why these terrorist attacks take place as the situation is not as black and white as many people think. There is a whole range of issues that fuel the troubles including the Middle East Israel/Palestinian aspect and the bias shown towards the State of Israel over Palestine by the West, especially America. And I’m still not totally convinced that there wasn’t some kind of conspiracy involved in the 9/11 attack. "Of course we don't, we fight to free the repressed of Afghanistan, we fight to allow women freedom and to give children an education and a future. We fight to try and ensure that Britain is never again held in the grip of a new terrorism." Not sure Britain is in the grip of a new terrorism. We had more terrorism during the IRA period and I think this hysteria is caused by media hype and government propaganda. As for fighting to free the repressed of Afghanistan…well if that was the case why didn’t we take any interest in that issue many years ago? If we win the war then what do we do….force the Afghan people to conform to our western views and way of life. Afghanistan has a whole mixture of religious sects, ethnic groups and tribes all with different traditions and customs so do we tell them that their wrong and have to change? Do we force the men of these tribes, ethnic groups and religious sects under the threat of the gun to allow more freedom to their women and to educate the children? And what future do we give the Afghan people…the future we think they should have? Then when we have changed the Afghan people (which incidentally we didn’t manage to do the last time we were there and no one else has managed either) to our way of life, do we then go onto places like North Korea, China, Burma etc and force them into doing things our way? Like it or not the world is not ‘ours’ and people do things differently due to their own customs and traditions. It may not be our ideal way of living but it’s not for us to judge. " As for the questions about kitting out our military, don't blame those working to get them the kit/vehicles/ammunition they need. It's shipped out as fast as it is made. But it has to be tested to ensure that it's 150% capable of doing the correct job and thats a lengthy process sometimes." To fight a war effectively you should know the basic elements that are needed. When leading military commanders state they haven’t the equipment to do the job then it’s obvious the military haven’t got the equipment to do the job. The government even now argue that there are enough military personnel out there AND they have enough equipment. The most recent example of this being the lack of helicopters. Without the helicopters troops have to walk well known and mined roads and are exposed to much danger, whereas if they had the helicopters they could travel further and safer. Will the government listen to the military...no. " Unfortunately, Afghanistan is a desert war with an enemy that doesn't fight in a conventional way. It's a war fought in mainly desert, with only 1 real road, where men have to walk and fight in alleyways that you can't get a vehicle through. It's a hot and tough war but the people supplying the equipment are trying very hard to keep up with an ever changing battle (and to repair everything that comes back full of sand!) and get it back out as soon as possible." Afghanistan is not just a desert, it has other terrain types such as arable land and mountains, all of which require different equipment and tactics. Urban warfare has been a speciality of the British forces for awhile, learnt from the time spent in Ireland. In fact we have even trained US troops in urban warfare. The American vehicles seem to have a lot less problems so maybe we should take a few notes from them. " And don't think that those who work for the military but don't fight, don't feel pain when soldiers die, or don't feel overwhelming sadness when they see the very young men getting ready to leave for a tour, because it breaks their hearts." I think that is something we can all relate to and i believe most people support our troops and are very proud of them. " But we are in Afghanistan for a reason and it's not because of the American's." What are those reasons? Can you say with a 100% certainty that we are there for the reasons you believe? Only the governments know the real truth and I have seen too many things to say I trust them or their words. For instance just where were those weapons of mass destruction in Iraq that we were told with 100& certainty were there. They had the proof…that’s what they told us all and they lied. "I know a fair few soldiers who have been killed or severly injured and it hurts more each time to know that it's happening........ but thats the point, it's happening. I'd rather show my overwhelming support for the men and women going out to war than to sit, whinging about the politicians." We all sympathise with any soldier who is killed or injured and we all show support for everyone of them. No one is whinging about anything, we are having a debate on a serious situation and we can debate as much as we like and from whatever viewpoint we like. Politicians are the ones who pull the strings and we all know they are not trustworthy (see weapons of mass destruction above). I think it’s very important to question our politicians and not sit back being quiet just because something’s going on. | |||
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"Its all fair and well saying bring them home but its not making good reading for the lads out there. Most get net access and to have people debating often brings morale down. Yes they lack full equipment much it is better than when they went in. As for policy, well there are people in charge who have far more knowledge than us mortals sat here spouting our words of wisdom. In my view we should support them. We are in there now and there is a job to do so hopefully democracy might have a chance. What you have to ask your self is are the afghani civilians life’s not worth anything? If our troops were not there how many more would die? Anyway my two peneth over. And before anyone knocks me I spent 3 tours there in the90’s in Kuwait and further excursions. I personally find it a little bit odd we do not support our troups as the Americans do theres. Let us not forget they for the grace of god keep this country safe and maintain a democracy. " Well bloody said Sir...  | |||
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"the thing is tho this is their job to fight wars etc.. they know wot they are getting themselfs into potentialy when they sign up, but i dont think they actually realise they are going to go to these war torn countries. Shame the Politicians cant fight the other politicians instead of using our poor under strength troops for cannon fodder and political pawns. It will never end why?? because war makes $$$$$$ and they dont want that to stop do they, its sick, War is WRONG!! Love and let live!!!" i really dont think its appropriate to put comments such as that on here | |||
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"ive just come back from a 7 month tour over there where i lost some very good friends. the people to blame are the government noone else " Can you just clarify which government? USA? UK? Afghan? | |||
" ...........Pull the boys and girls out and spend the money saved on watching our borders and proper security!" We've not long finished digging a tunnel. I don't thinks there's money for a drawbridge (much and all as Cameron would wish to build one). | |||
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"well the us run the uk and afgan so gotta be them" So it's pointless blaming Blair? | |||
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"well the us run the uk and afgan so gotta be them So it's pointless blaming Blair?" Easy to blame Blair, but sit down and think about it. Do you believe he wanted all the crap that has happened out there to happen? What you have to think about is if there hadn’t been an invasion how much more bloodshed would there have been on British soil. Its easy to spout your piece but lets face it non of us have the full facts of the situation. What I do know is I have been out there and the locals are grateful of what protection we give them. | |||
"the thing is tho this is their job to fight wars etc.. they know wot they are getting themselfs into potentialy when they sign up, but i dont think they actually realise they are going to go to these war torn countries. Shame the Politicians cant fight the other politicians instead of using our poor under strength troops for cannon fodder and political pawns. It will never end why?? because war makes $$$$$$ and they dont want that to stop do they, its sick, War is WRONG!! Love and let live!!!" Only a naive fool believes that peace can be achieved by laying down your guns. For some hardened fanatics, no amount of political posturing will assuage them of the outrage they feel about their so called 'religion' - and make no mistake, that is what we are fighting out in Afghanistan - an ideology, and you cannot defeat a set of beliefs with brute force. We have a job to do out there and our mandate is quite clear: Rid Afghanistan of the Taliban's ability to retake control once we leave. We'll never kill every Taliban fighter in the country as, like I said, an ideology indoctrinates from a very early age and for each Taliban we kill another is ready to fight - and they fight in the belief that they are right, as do we. The only solution is empower the normal Afghan populace to reject the extremism purported by the Taliban and to instill in them the courage to openly oppose the Taliban once we leave. This has to be done on two fronts: Politically, through the U.N. to ensure that corruption is stamped out from the top down, and through training the ANP and Afghani Army to provide the backbone for any acts of Parliament that are passed. Once we have left, the U.N. must remain on permanent standby to go back into Afghanistan if called upon to assist in quelling any uprisings that threaten the democratic process, but this must only happen under the banner of a United Nations Peacekeeping Force, we cannot go back in as a fully equipped army. To pull out before any of this has been established would be an insult to those that have died already and those that are still out there fighting and it would be seen by the Afghan people as an act of betrayal and that would push them firmly back into the clutches of the Taliban. Which is why we must remain there now. Calls to bring our boys home are misguided and even though the pain of repatriating dead soldiers is very hard to swallow you must always remember that with great achievement comes also great sacrifice and to lay down one's life upon the altar of freedom is a far better thing to do than to do nothing at all when confronted with a regime that is systematically murdering it's own people. | |||
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"nuke any country ending in stan " So that takes care of: Afghanistan Kazakhstan Kyrgyzstan Pakistan Tajikistan Turkmenistan Uzbekistan ....but what about Libya, Iraq, Iran & Scotland? hehehe | |||
"nuke any country ending in stan So that takes care of: Afghanistan Kazakhstan Kyrgyzstan Pakistan Tajikistan Turkmenistan Uzbekistan ....but what about Libya, Iraq, Iran & Scotland? hehehe "I concidered reporting this post and Complaining about the "Scotland" part, then I looked and saw that you're from Tyneside and figured that you were being punished enough  | |||
"nuke any country ending in stan So that takes care of: Afghanistan Kazakhstan Kyrgyzstan Pakistan Tajikistan Turkmenistan Uzbekistan ....but what about Libya, Iraq, Iran & Scotland? hehehe
I concidered reporting this post and Complaining about the "Scotland" part, then I looked and saw that you're from Tyneside and figured that you were being punished enough "I'm actually from Bedfordshire - which is why I agree with the nuke any 'stan' post and also the reason I moved up north (apart from the fact that Siren has great tits and can suck cock for ENGLAND, of course! hehehe) | |||
"nuke any country ending in stan " My neighbour is called Stan, and he's a cun..... oh, you didnt mean that did you?
lol, aint I a stinker!! | |||
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"Sadly i doubt this government will withdraw them, they would not want to admit they were wrong, once again." Neither potential government will withdraw troops any time soon. The only political parties in favour of withdrawal are the one with no chance of forming a government and thus their enthusiasm could perhaps be described as opportunist. | |||
It's a bit like Northern Ireland, there probably be no winners in the end, but there wouldn't be peace there, or on our streets, if it wasn't for the military. And as for Vietnam, we fought the same type of war in Malaysia and won that one. I say back our troops and get behind them all the way. | |||
