FabSwingers.com > Forums > Wales > The Welsh language
The Welsh language
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Rather than sidetrack the excellent N.Wales thread I thought I'd start a new one.
What are your thoughts on the Welsh language?
An important part of our culture worth preserving or an antiquity we'd be better off without?
I'll hope for a sensible debate but am a realist  |
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A building more than 100 years old gets preserved and gets listed status. Welsh is the true language of Britain and it's given hardly any status at all. It should be preserve_ and cherished by all patriots of Britain and not just the Welsh. |
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Good point...
I'm not fluent by any means, but also feel it is a language that is sincere,
I may be wrong but thanks diolch sound more sincere in Welsh..
Darling can be so false in English "" oh darling". "yes darling". "no darling" get my drift, but use the word cariad... And it seems to roll off the tongue with nothing but sincerity.
Is it not a pure language with hardly any swear words, folk tend to blaspheme than swear..
With archaeological digs they're able to do facial reconstruction of what our ancestors looked like, pity the can't do language reconstruction, in that what did the language of the ancient Britons sound like 2000 years ago when the Romans arrived.. How different to modern Welsh would it have been.. |
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By *ost SockMan
over a year ago
West Wales and Cardiff |
I’ve learnt to speak it as an adult. I’m so glad I have. I don’t think anyone is less Welsh for not knowing though.
I know a lot of people who’ve moved to Wales who have fallen in love with the language and have learnt it. The future lies in creating opportunities and encouraging them if they wish to learn it. Every time I said I was learning Welsh in Welsh in a shop etc I was met with encouragement and it meant a great deal.
I do think there is huge ignorance about the language. That’s not the fault of people, more the narrow education system. I deal with visitors to Wales on a daily basis and still get the “it’s a dead language” nonsense. I’ve also met people who’ve moved here and we’re either shocked that people actually spoke it, or very against it, despite living in areas where it is a living, breathing part of the language.
I do get the concerns that non-Welsh speakers have and have seen some of the downsides, particularly when dealing with staff on the Welsh Language Board! I do think we need to respect the fact that certain areas of Wales don’t have a strong tradition of speaking the language.
Forgot politics etc for a minute though. The bottom line is, it’s a beautiful language and an important part of the fabric of Wales. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But noses shouldn't be turned up by those who are fluent against those who are not..
One is no less a Welsh person just because they are not fluent in the language.. "
 I grew up in Wales, but on the border with England. Welsh was only available as an O level in that area, nothing in school at all.
I know things have moved on a lot since then, but the challenge with learning it now for me would be that I don't know any Welsh speakers, so I wouldn't be able to use it if I learned it. |
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By *ost SockMan
over a year ago
West Wales and Cardiff |
"But noses shouldn't be turned up by those who are fluent against those who are not..
One is no less a Welsh person just because they are not fluent in the language..
I grew up in Wales, but on the border with England. Welsh was only available as an O level in that area, nothing in school at all.
I know things have moved on a lot since then, but the challenge with learning it now for me would be that I don't know any Welsh speakers, so I wouldn't be able to use it if I learned it."
Plenty of social groups in Cardiff. I started going to a couple and made good friends - people I hung out with not just because we got in well, not just because were trying to improve.
There were people from all sorts of countries there too - really interesting. |
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"But noses shouldn't be turned up by those who are fluent against those who are not..
One is no less a Welsh person just because they are not fluent in the language..
I grew up in Wales, but on the border with England. Welsh was only available as an O level in that area, nothing in school at all.
I know things have moved on a lot since then, but the challenge with learning it now for me would be that I don't know any Welsh speakers, so I wouldn't be able to use it if I learned it."
Same here but they'd stopped even teaching it as an optional extra. I live 4 miles inside the border, it's still Wales and should've still been part of the curriculum. I feel cheated that I wasn't taught it. Thank goodness it's back in the curriculum now and have niece's that speak it.
I love hearing people speak the language and have tried to learn a few words so I'm not completely ignorant to it now |
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I'm Irish and feel each country should be proud to have their own language, its a pity to let it die out the old gaelic ways, I think as adults we appreciate our heritage more and maybe night classes for mature students would work |
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Im proud to be able to speak the Welsh language, actually its my first language, i think me and many others who fo speak it are luck to have two languages at a very young age,
Hope more pick it up and keeps the language going |
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I'm pretty much in agreement with everything said in this thread. I thought there would be some comment about it being expensive to keep the language alive or how it was pointless. There's still time I guess. |
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I'm a big believer that if Welsh people want to learn and preserve the Welsh language then more power to them, but it's up to the Welsh to do that, fact of the matter is, people love to say that they would love to speak it, but never bother to learn |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I (eldion) love the language but I could never get a grasp of it when learning it in school so I never got any good at it. But definitely should be a language that should be kept around |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I hubby dont speak Welsh but miss does fluently and both of our kids do two.
Unfortunately my father was in the forces and I travelled the world from school to school but I would love to learn it as I'm Welsh. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I (eldion) love the language but I could never get a grasp of it when learning it in school so I never got any good at it. But definitely should be a language that should be kept around"
Exactly this for me too.
Someone from West Wales did tried to tell me that he was more Welsh than me because he spoke Welsh. I did disagree with him and pointed out that as I was born and have lived in the capital of Wales all my life that I was more Welsh than him
One thing that does wind me up though is why we get every letter form or bill in English and Welsh. Why cant they ask what language we would prefer to have these things in.To me its a complete waste of money resources and trees. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I (eldion) love the language but I could never get a grasp of it when learning it in school so I never got any good at it. But definitely should be a language that should be kept around
Exactly this for me too.
Someone from West Wales did tried to tell me that he was more Welsh than me because he spoke Welsh. I did disagree with him and pointed out that as I was born and have lived in the capital of Wales all my life that I was more Welsh than him
One thing that does wind me up though is why we get every letter form or bill in English and Welsh. Why cant they ask what language we would prefer to have these things in.To me its a complete waste of money resources and trees."
As part of the Welsh Language Act all public utilities in Wales must provide a bilingual form, letter, or bill. I would prefer to receive them all in Welsh but that not going to happen soon. |
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"I'm Irish and feel each country should be proud to have their own language, its a pity to let it die out the old gaelic ways, I think as adults we appreciate our heritage more and maybe night classes for mature students would work "
One of the things we should take on board what you do in Ireland is regards your TV channel.
If memory correct the gaelic channel is TG3, our is SC4, now on TG3 there's been some great history documentaries, but you have subtitles in English.
On SC4 you might get the red button for English commentary on certain rugby or soccer matches..
Think the omnibus edition of pobl y Cwm the Welsh soap might have or had subtitles..
But any decent documentaries in Welsh are Welsh only no subtitles.. |
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"But S4C receives circa £75m in funding from the licence fee and a lot of its programs are officially recorded as having viewing figures of 0!!!
Money well spent? "
There's been some good documentaries wish they did subtitles..
Late teens spent a winter in a tourist area after the tourists went home, most of village spoke Welsh, got to a point knew what conversations were about but couldn't translate word for word...
One day was a bit chilly, couldn't think of word for cold so saim dim poeth.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Cymru am byth
The Welsh language is so important especially in rural Wales where it is the first language. It's our heritage and we should try to maintain it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But S4C receives circa £75m in funding from the licence fee and a lot of its programs are officially recorded as having viewing figures of 0!!!
Money well spent? "
Yes without a question. Campaigners spent years and time in English jails and a threat to hunger strike to ensure a Welsh language channel. There are some dire programmes but some are among the best produced in the UK |
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"But S4C receives circa £75m in funding from the licence fee and a lot of its programs are officially recorded as having viewing figures of 0!!!
Money well spent?
Yes without a question. Campaigners spent years and time in English jails and a threat to hunger strike to ensure a Welsh language channel. There are some dire programmes but some are among the best produced in the UK"
If we're talking about money spent erroneously then we have to ask about Welsh taxpayers contributions being spent on things like HS2 that will never benefit Wales. Makes £75m look like small change too. |
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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago
West Wales |
We were chuffed when the school said our youngest could go to "Welsh School" on a ten week crash course.
Even more shocked when they said a cab would pick them up & drop them off four days a week! (Its 15 miles away & the cab picked up 3/4 others enroute) Then she did so well that the older one went later as well.
Now they are back in "Normal" school but still have Welsh lessons three times a week.
We think it great that the language is encouraged, One of the reasons we moved further into Wales was because around Brecon where we were looking originally we hardly heard it, here you hear it first.
Add to that the fact we got more for our money & I get to walk the Cambrians which make the Black Mountains look like Piccadilly Circus and its a win all round
We are picking up the odd word but as long as the kids use it we are happy. We only have four neighbours within earshot & they are all retired English anyway!
S
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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When i was in school it was a dying language. I'm not a welsh speaker and neither is my family. I wish I was able to speak it but sadly I can't.
It very important for so many jobs today in Wales so I do think it needs to be promoted in all non speaking welsh schools. And I mean a lot more then 1 or 2 lessons a week, that way everyone has the same chance of going for a job as all fluent welsh speakers.
The only thing I disagree with is when you phone up so many organisations in Wales its welsh first and that can take ages. A lot of phone numbers are not cheap and you have to wait ages for the English option.
I don't want this country to loose the Welsh language, but more support to learn it is needed x |
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By *aydee65Man
over a year ago
Near Merthyr |
The Welsh language is one of the oldest in Europe and there were serious attempts to 'kill it off' in South Wales in the mid 19th century, mainly by English mine and iron works owners who did not want their workforce speaking a language they did not understand. It was banned in schools and anyone caught speaking Welsh was made to wear the 'Welsh Knot' (Welsh not) around their neck which was a piece of rope with a wooden plaque attached. This would be worn until someone else was caught and it was passed on. Whoever was unlucky enough to be wearing it at the final bell would be given a severe thrashing. That's why the language has remained fairly commonplace in West and North Wales yet very sparse in the South where most of the industry was located. |
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Having moved to wales, we are hoping to learn welsh, even if it’s just to be polite, we love it here in Swansea, the people are very welcoming, the country side is beautiful, my sister has lived in South Wales most of her life, she has never bothered to try and, now she will never be able to, the Welsh language is a beautiful sounding language, but I think we will struggle to get our heads around all those double L’s. |
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By * and CCouple
over a year ago
near Cardiff |
Personally I think that we have a heritage and literature to be proud of. I know that they can translate things, but they'll lose the idioms and the welsh feel. Basically a translated piece is a husk of the original. The fact that so many people in Wales dont speak Welsh means that they're experiencing Welshness in a different way to those that are bilingual.
I disagree with the earlier statement that it doesn't make you less welsh if you can't speak our mother tongue. Especially when there are so many opportunities to learn available (it's easier than ever before). You're experienced less of Welsh culture, in it's original form.
Sorry in advance if I've upset anyone. |
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By * and CCouple
over a year ago
near Cardiff |
"Having moved to wales, we are hoping to learn welsh, even if it’s just to be polite, we love it here in Swansea, the people are very welcoming, the country side is beautiful, my sister has lived in South Wales most of her life, she has never bothered to try and, now she will never be able to, the Welsh language is a beautiful sounding language, but I think we will struggle to get our heads around all those double L’s. "
Just think of someone with a lisp saying "s". Pob lwc! Duolingo is good to start and learning the welsh alphabet first will help your pronunciation. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Having moved to wales, we are hoping to learn welsh, even if it’s just to be polite, we love it here in Swansea, the people are very welcoming, the country side is beautiful, my sister has lived in South Wales most of her life, she has never bothered to try and, now she will never be able to, the Welsh language is a beautiful
sounding language, but I think we will struggle to get our heads around all those double L’s. "
Happy to teach you lol! |
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"The Welsh language is one of the oldest in Europe and there were serious attempts to 'kill it off' in South Wales in the mid 19th century, mainly by English mine and iron works owners who did not want their workforce speaking a language they did not understand. It was banned in schools and anyone caught speaking Welsh was made to wear the 'Welsh Knot' (Welsh not) around their neck which was a piece of rope with a wooden plaque attached. This would be worn until someone else was caught and it was passed on. Whoever was unlucky enough to be wearing it at the final bell would be given a severe thrashing. That's why the language has remained fairly commonplace in West and North Wales yet very sparse in the South where most of the industry was located."
I don't think it was entirely driven by iron works and mine owners, it was also directed from Westminster. A disgusting form of cultural genocide from a colonial power. |
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"Personally I think that we have a heritage and literature to be proud of. I know that they can translate things, but they'll lose the idioms and the welsh feel. Basically a translated piece is a husk of the original. The fact that so many people in Wales dont speak Welsh means that they're experiencing Welshness in a different way to those that are bilingual.
I disagree with the earlier statement that it doesn't make you less welsh if you can't speak our mother tongue. Especially when there are so many opportunities to learn available (it's easier than ever before). You're experienced less of Welsh culture, in it's original form.
Sorry in advance if I've upset anyone."
You've not upset me but I disagree vehemently with you.
A child born to monoglot parents in an area with very few Welsh speakers is no less Welsh than a child born into and immersed in the language.
Yes child 1 can learn in school and in later life but they're already at a huge disadvantage from day 1. |
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By * and CCouple
over a year ago
near Cardiff |
"Personally I think that we have a heritage and literature to be proud of. I know that they can translate things, but they'll lose the idioms and the welsh feel. Basically a translated piece is a husk of the original. The fact that so many people in Wales dont speak Welsh means that they're experiencing Welshness in a different way to those that are bilingual.
I disagree with the earlier statement that it doesn't make you less welsh if you can't speak our mother tongue. Especially when there are so many opportunities to learn available (it's easier than ever before). You're experienced less of Welsh culture, in it's original form.
Sorry in advance if I've upset anyone.
You've not upset me but I disagree vehemently with you.
A child born to monoglot parents in an area with very few Welsh speakers is no less Welsh than a child born into and immersed in the language.
Yes child 1 can learn in school and in later life but they're already at a huge disadvantage from day 1. "
A agree that they're at a disadvantage. No doubt. I guess it all depends on our definition of welshness. Personally, the welsh language is top of that list to me. I'm not saying you aren't welsh or cant be patriotic if you dont speak it though. |
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By * and CCouple
over a year ago
near Cardiff |
"Personally I think that we have a heritage and literature to be proud of. I know that they can translate things, but they'll lose the idioms and the welsh feel. Basically a translated piece is a husk of the original. The fact that so many people in Wales dont speak Welsh means that they're experiencing Welshness in a different way to those that are bilingual.
I disagree with the earlier statement that it doesn't make you less welsh if you can't speak our mother tongue. Especially when there are so many opportunities to learn available (it's easier than ever before). You're experienced less of Welsh culture, in it's original form.
Sorry in advance if I've upset anyone.
You've not upset me but I disagree vehemently with you.
A child born to monoglot parents in an area with very few Welsh speakers is no less Welsh than a child born into and immersed in the language.
Yes child 1 can learn in school and in later life but they're already at a huge disadvantage from day 1.
A agree that they're at a disadvantage. No doubt. I guess it all depends on our definition of welshness. Personally, the welsh language is top of that list to me. I'm not saying you aren't welsh or cant be patriotic if you dont speak it though."
Cenedl heb iaith, cenedl hen galon. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Tell that to an Australian, Kiwi, American, Austrian etc. "
Native people of Australia, New Zealand or America or the descendants of the invaders who colonised their lands? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I don’t speak the language although I wish I did. Both my kids go to a welsh speaking school..I thought it was very important for them to be bilingual especially in terms of work x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I wouldn't go as far as to say the Welsh language is an important part of our culture given that we live in the South. I am however passionate about the language even though my skills have declined since school as I have had nobody to converse with in Welsh. I would like to pick it back up in the future and I believe being Welsh we should be bilingual |
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"Tell that to an Australian, Kiwi, American, Austrian etc.
Native people of Australia, New Zealand or America or the descendants of the invaders who colonised their lands?"
Both. Or are descendants of colonists and immigrants not Australian, Kiwi etc? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Rather than sidetrack the excellent N.Wales thread I thought I'd start a new one.
What are your thoughts on the Welsh language?
An important part of our culture worth preserving or an antiquity we'd be better off without?
I'll hope for a sensible debate but am a realist "
We do live in a world where English is an universal language. Most people of Europe speak and or can understand at least some basic English.
However, in France, the French speak French. In Germany, the Germans speak German. In Mexico, the Mexicans speak Mexican. In china, the Chinese speak Chinese.
So why the hell should Welsh people be any different?
It's only a few years ago that Welsh was regarded as a dead language. However, today there are parts of Wales where Welsh is very firmly the first language.
It's easy to find bilingual road signs in many countries around the world. Take, for example, Cornwall, which is an English county very firmly located in England.
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Language is a form of communication. Failure to effectively communicate leads to mistrust.
How great would it be if I could read any newspaper in the world, watch any countries TV news, current affairs, to see how they see things.
Of course people can speak any language they like, but when it becomes compulsory, you know that language has had it's day. |
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"Welsh knot... "
The Welsh Not, Short version.
Only applied in some school's (schools were not council run then). You could speak what ever language you wanted out of school.
The reason behind it, if you can't speak English, not much of a future.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Tell that to an Australian, Kiwi, American, Austrian etc.
Native people of Australia, New Zealand or America or the descendants of the invaders who colonised their lands?
Both. Or are descendants of colonists and immigrants not Australian, Kiwi etc? "
They are but not true natives |
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"Welsh knot...
The Welsh Not, Short version.
Only applied in some school's (schools were not council run then). You could speak what ever language you wanted out of school.
The reason behind it, if you can't speak English, not much of a future.
"
Also for many it was seen as a badge of honour and receive 6 of the.best at the end of the day.. |
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Though for most the" Welsh not" is probably the best example of welsh trying to eradicated.
Not the only case of speaking Welsh would be a disadvantaged.
Many Welsh soldiers who fought at the front in WW1 and spoke Welsh, would write home in their native language to their sweethearts, would never understand why they never got replies, and many would eventually receive "Dear John" letters informing them their sweethearts had met someone else in their absence...
The reason why their sweethearts never received their mail, the army had strict censorship not wanting the truth of what was actually happening at the front to get out, as a result when Welsh letters were read by the censors many ended up in the bin as they couldn't be translated.
So many a sweetheart thinking her beloved Dai at the front was no longer interested in her because of no mail would seek solace elsewhere.
One of the best examples of this is probably the greatest ever Welsh love song of all time, Myfanwy,
Telling the story of a returning guy (could easily be coming home from the front) and realising immediately from her body language and reaction she's met someone else..
In many ways also shows the compassion of Welsh guys in that though he's lost her, his love for her is that great he wishes her well... |
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"Language is a form of communication. Failure to effectively communicate leads to mistrust.
How great would it be if I could read any newspaper in the world, watch any countries TV news, current affairs, to see how they see things.
Of course people can speak any language they like, but when it becomes compulsory, you know that language has had it's day."
I respect you for placing your head above the parapet but I'd ask you why Welsh declined (it's not just about the Welsh Not) and would it have done so without moves to eradicate it. |
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"Tell that to an Australian, Kiwi, American, Austrian etc.
Native people of Australia, New Zealand or America or the descendants of the invaders who colonised their lands?
Both. Or are descendants of colonists and immigrants not Australian, Kiwi etc?
They are but not true natives"
Hmmmm. Who are the natives of Wales then? I can't trace my lineage back to Owain Glyndwr so I guess I'm only plastic Welsh. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Language is a form of communication. Failure to effectively communicate leads to mistrust.
How great would it be if I could read any newspaper in the world, watch any countries TV news, current affairs, to see how they see things.
Of course people can speak any language they like, but when it becomes compulsory, you know that language has had it's day.
I respect you for placing your head above the parapet but I'd ask you why Welsh declined (it's not just about the Welsh Not) and would it have done so without moves to eradicate it. "
It declined due to mass immigration which anglicised most of South Wales, South East Wales, parts of South West Wales and North East Wales, the education report of the 1800's (blue books) which slammed the speaking and teaching of Welsh, decline of Chapels |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Tell that to an Australian, Kiwi, American, Austrian etc.
Native people of Australia, New Zealand or America or the descendants of the invaders who colonised their lands?
Both. Or are descendants of colonists and immigrants not Australian, Kiwi etc?
They are but not true natives
Hmmmm. Who are the natives of Wales then? I can't trace my lineage back to Owain Glyndwr so I guess I'm only plastic Welsh. "
I doubt many could trace lineage back to Owain Glyndwr or further to Llywelyn Fawr. We are all generations removed from those who came before |
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"Language is a form of communication. Failure to effectively communicate leads to mistrust.
How great would it be if I could read any newspaper in the world, watch any countries TV news, current affairs, to see how they see things.
Of course people can speak any language they like, but when it becomes compulsory, you know that language has had it's day.
I respect you for placing your head above the parapet but I'd ask you why Welsh declined (it's not just about the Welsh Not) and would it have done so without moves to eradicate it.
It declined due to mass immigration which anglicised most of South Wales, South East Wales, parts of South West Wales and North East Wales, the education report of the 1800's (blue books) which slammed the speaking and teaching of Welsh, decline of Chapels"
Yeah and it wasn't all economic migration either. In fact colonisation isn't migration.
Then you add in the attitude of our colonists to the language and culture and we are where we are. |
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Not being anywhere near Wales I'd like to comment as an innocent bystander and say how lovely I've found the language to sound when I've heard it on occasional visits. I actually thought it was doing quite well from a little incident I witnessed on my last visit. I was sitting quietly awaiting a haircut when a guy popped his head around the door and he and the two barbers all engaged in a short but rapid conversation totally in Welsh. As it wouldn't have been possible to determine I was actually English and wasn't being deliberately excluded from the conversation I took it that this was a natural way for them to communicate.The reason for me thinking things were thriving is that all the guys were in their 20s so assumed things were alive,well and thriving. I say live and let live and hope the revival continues without the need for any government or other authority to interfere? Go guys your doing a grand job from the grass roots level! Let's keep it non political or you'll end up in a mess(look at Brexit?)
Best wishes to all concerned. |
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By *ost SockMan
over a year ago
West Wales and Cardiff |
"It's strange how people in Pembrokeshire sound English. Yet in South Wales which is closer to England, they all sound proper Welsh. "
That’s Soith Pembrokeshire you’re thinking of. To be honest, it’s not strange at all when you look at the history of Pembrokeshire.
The Englishry (South) and Welshry (North), are centuries old - “Little England Beyond Wales” isn’t a new thing. Both areas have very distinct stories - accents, pronunciations of place names etc.
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"...
I respect you for placing your head above the parapet but I'd ask you why Welsh declined (it's not just about the Welsh Not) and would it have done so without moves to eradicate it. "
What moves were there to eradicate Welsh? |
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"...
I respect you for placing your head above the parapet but I'd ask you why Welsh declined (it's not just about the Welsh Not) and would it have done so without moves to eradicate it.
What moves were there to eradicate Welsh?"
http://www.welshnot.com/the-taming-of-the-taffy/
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Language is a form of communication. Failure to effectively communicate leads to mistrust.
How great would it be if I could read any newspaper in the world, watch any countries TV news, current affairs, to see how they see things.
Of course people can speak any language they like, but when it becomes compulsory, you know that language has had it's day.
I respect you for placing your head above the parapet but I'd ask you why Welsh declined (it's not just about the Welsh Not) and would it have done so without moves to eradicate it.
It declined due to mass immigration which anglicised most of South Wales, South East Wales, parts of South West Wales and North East Wales, the education report of the 1800's (blue books) which slammed the speaking and teaching of Welsh, decline of Chapels
Yeah and it wasn't all economic migration either. In fact colonisation isn't migration.
Then you add in the attitude of our colonists to the language and culture and we are where we are. "
An attitude which still exists amongst some of our incomers.
The really amazing thing though is that refugees from Syria and Iran who have been relocated to Wales have expressed a interest to learn Welsh. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's strange how people in Pembrokeshire sound English. Yet in South Wales which is closer to England, they all sound proper Welsh.
That’s Soith Pembrokeshire you’re thinking of. To be honest, it’s not strange at all when you look at the history of Pembrokeshire.
The Englishry (South) and Welshry (North), are centuries old - “Little England Beyond Wales” isn’t a new thing. Both areas have very distinct stories - accents, pronunciations of place names etc.
"
I'm talking about Narberth, Tenby, Saundersfoot, Saint Davids, Pembroke .. People there all sound English.
Why is it called Little England beyond Wales?
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"It's strange how people in Pembrokeshire sound English. Yet in South Wales which is closer to England, they all sound proper Welsh.
That’s Soith Pembrokeshire you’re thinking of. To be honest, it’s not strange at all when you look at the history of Pembrokeshire.
The Englishry (South) and Welshry (North), are centuries old - “Little England Beyond Wales” isn’t a new thing. Both areas have very distinct stories - accents, pronunciations of place names etc.
I'm talking about Narberth, Tenby, Saundersfoot, Saint Davids, Pembroke .. People there all sound English.
"
A lot of English people have moved to Wales, attracted by the cheaper housing. I've no problem with that in general but the use of Wales as a retirement complex does concern me.
Wales needs to make itself more attractive so that younger Welsh people stay in Wales and university graduates here want to stay after their education ends. That would redress the balance somewhat. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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So English people settled there. I still think its strange that nobody there sounds Welsh.. Considering i know English people who have lived in South Wales for a few years and are already sounding Welsh. |
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By *ost SockMan
over a year ago
West Wales and Cardiff |
"It's strange how people in Pembrokeshire sound English. Yet in South Wales which is closer to England, they all sound proper Welsh.
That’s Soith Pembrokeshire you’re thinking of. To be honest, it’s not strange at all when you look at the history of Pembrokeshire.
The Englishry (South) and Welshry (North), are centuries old - “Little England Beyond Wales” isn’t a new thing. Both areas have very distinct stories - accents, pronunciations of place names etc.
I'm talking about Narberth, Tenby, Saundersfoot, Saint Davids, Pembroke .. People there all sound English.
Why is it called Little England beyond Wales?
"
It’s centuries of history.
The Normans built a line of castles across the county to keep the indigenous Welsh population in the higher, more difficult to farm, terrain in the north.
Ever since then, there was a clear dividing line between the north and south of the county culturally and linguistically.
In the south of the county, it retained a very strong Norman influence, mixed with Flemish (there are a number of fine cottages and Flemish chimneys in the area), Irish, Norse and English.
The major trading routes were with Ireland and the south-west of England (which is why the strongest Welsh accents have a distinct trace of West Country in them), not with the other parts of Wales. That inevitably brought people with those accents.
The two parts of of Pembrokeshire have always been very proud of their distinct histories. The “non-Welshness” of South Pembrokeshire down the centuries reallyis a reflection of events all those centuries ago. They shaped the ways communities developed, the way things were pronounced, the use of English/Welsh etc. |
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By *ost SockMan
over a year ago
West Wales and Cardiff |
There was even a name given to the line dividing the north from the south - The Landsker Line.
You’ll still see that name used a lot in company names etc today.
When I was a kid in North Pembs, it was pretty obvious once you’d crossed that line. It still exists to an extent today.
Another interesting way to trace the difference between the two areas is the very different surnames of long-established families. |
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Is there not a distinct dialect almost seperate language in Pembrokeshire..
One of your many catalogue programmes on Wales featured it not that long ago, something like fish locks Wales but I don't think it was one of his.
May be in parts of South pembs, as included flemush words.. |
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By *ost SockMan
over a year ago
West Wales and Cardiff |
"Is there not a distinct dialect almost seperate language in Pembrokeshire..
One of your many catalogue programmes on Wales featured it not that long ago, something like fish locks Wales but I don't think it was one of his.
May be in parts of South pembs, as included flemush words.. "
There’s certainly a distinct South Pembs dialect I’d say, or a number of dialects. Words like “kift” (awkward) and “caffled” (tangled). It’s not a language though - at least I very much doubt it passes that test.
There are Welsh placenames in the south (or “down below”, as us North Pembs types say!), but most locals wouldn’t pronounce them that way e.g. Llangwm is very definitely Lang-em.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As you can see I no longer live at home but I still use the language as much as possible. It's one way that we are different from our Celtic brothers in that we use ours more, and we should never let it die. I only speak Welsh to my kids who only hear it from me or Nain and Taid over the phone. They don't speak it but they understand what I ask/tell them.
If ever I go to macdonalds or lidl I always pick the Welsh option on the self service machines. The staff in lidl get really annoyed at me for doing it for some reason but then I heard them complaining that a "foreigner" should learn more English if they need to shop there! (Would be interesting to hear if we told them to learn more Welsh to shop in Wales what their reaction would be!)
I sometimes even have my status on here in Welsh and it's strange how many actually message to say sut mae (even if they don't intend to meet).
Like a few said above, genedl heb iaith fel Gwlad heb galon! Cymru am byth! |
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"I'd like to watch porn in Welsh, that's be fun  "
There could be problems with this... Though on TV programmes such soaps, far to often if a Welsh actor / character is introduced its often occurred that because of token Welsh accent a character could be said to be from the valleys but is speaking with a clear Bangor eye, accent, or some one from North Wales but actors got the thickest valleys accent going....
Wales is no different than anywhere else in that there are regional accents,
Kaaaardiff, gwent, valleys, mid Wales, west Wales, North East Wales, North West Wales,...
We in North East Wales are said to have overtones of Liverpool scouse in our accent(I recall playing against valley teams and the term plastic scousers being used) , but who is to say the North East Wales accent didn't influence the scouse accent especially as many migrated from North Wales to Liverpool as the city grew from 17th century onwards.
Now our friends in the west will amongst them selves be able to identify a cofi (Caernarfon) a Bangor "eye" and someone from Anglesey though to the rest of it just sounds like a gwynned accent..
Now apologies here to our comrades from gwynedd, but the gwynned accent does have a tendency to being slightly high pitched, especially the men as though when speaking someone is squeezing their balls.
If memory correct think max Boyce hinted at this years ago, in that gwynned folk (maybe just Bangor eyes) tend to answer a question by going "yes.. No" in their slightly high pitched accent..
So if Welsh speaking porn is to be made may not be wise to use the gwynedd accent (don't abuse me)..
But at the end of day it'll never be made and why its never been made, is we're all God fearing, chapel going folk who only have an odd pint on a Saturday night to lubricate the larynx ready for choir singing in Chapel Sunday morning...
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