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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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So it looks like we're going to bomb Syria.
Any thoughts?
Personally I'm against it as it's only going to be a waste of time, make more refugees and make IS determined to attack the UK. |
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Another complete and utter disaster. 18 months ago he wanted to bomb the other side.
The Islamic State needs defeating – but this can only be done by the people of the region themselves. Rather than bombing by outside powers, efforts should be made to stop countries such as Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Nato member Turkey giving aid, arms and logistical support to IS.
Bombing will kill more civilians, multiply the number of refugees and drive new support into the arms of Islamic State. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Yes, the only effective fighting forces on the ground against ISIS are the Kurds. And Turkey (our NATO 'ally') has effectively declared war on them, whilst simultaneously guaranteeing ISIS safe passage and allowing them to sell their contraband oil through their borders. Maybe even arming them too?
With allies like that, adding to the mess is pointless. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Bombing will kill more civilians, multiply the number of refugees and drive new support into the arms of Islamic State."
DING DING DING! This is it, right here.
Half the reason we're in this mess at the moment is because of duplicitous foreign policy, and blowing fuck out of various Middle Eastern territories.
If anyone is interested, there's an extremely well written and accessible documentary called The Four Horsemen that covers this, amongst other things. Well worth a watch. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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It's not about doing nothing, more a case of finding the best way to tackle the problem, and bombs without ground forces is totally counterproductive. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I agree, let's do nothing and maybe IS will start being nice people and debate their issues with Jeremy Corbyn."
Nobody suggested doing nothing, so far as I can see?
I'm just suggesting that indiscriminately bombing the living piss out of a territory causes more problems than it solves, and serves to push people into dangerous organisations.
From the other perspective, if I came home and found my entire home and family had been blown off the map by some random foreigners (which is pretty much exactly what we'll be doing by bombing Syria), the ensuing upset would probably make me more likely to want to join a militant organisation in the hope of some small amount of revenge (which is what the government is proposing by bombing Syria, albeit on a larger and more "official" scale), rather than to encourage my leaders to sit and have a civilised pow-wow over a pot of Earl Grey and some bourbons. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm against the bombing plan, but not for the obvious reasons.
We screwed up the first Gulf War by stopping at the Iraqi border. If we had done what was expected by many in the region, removed Saddam and then left, the situation now would be different. Iraq descended into civil war after the second Gulf War because we had to go back in to do what we should have done before and dismantled the Iraqi state organisations, leaving chaos in our wake.
We screwed up and unfortunately, the Arab states are unable or unwilling to help out with putting it right. Like it or not we are at war with a terrorist organisation who are already targeting this country because of what we have done in the past. We do nothing and they will get stronger.
A UN authorisation is needed for an all out attack on this serious threat to the world, followed by huge humanitarian efforts in the region.
Why am I against the bombing? It is not enough. We will be putting ground troops in eventually, I just hope that Daesh (I refuse to refer to them as any kind of 'state')do not get so powerful that they become a real army and more difficult to erase.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm against the bombing plan, but not for the obvious reasons.
We screwed up the first Gulf War by stopping at the Iraqi border. If we had done what was expected by many in the region, removed Saddam and then left, the situation now would be different. Iraq descended into civil war after the second Gulf War because we had to go back in to do what we should have done before and dismantled the Iraqi state organisations, leaving chaos in our wake.
We screwed up and unfortunately, the Arab states are unable or unwilling to help out with putting it right. Like it or not we are at war with a terrorist organisation who are already targeting this country because of what we have done in the past. We do nothing and they will get stronger.
A UN authorisation is needed for an all out attack on this serious threat to the world, followed by huge humanitarian efforts in the region.
Why am I against the bombing? It is not enough. We will be putting ground troops in eventually, I just hope that Daesh (I refuse to refer to them as any kind of 'state')do not get so powerful that they become a real army and more difficult to erase.
"
Yep, the first Gulf War was a clusterfuck. |
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"Yes, the only effective fighting forces on the ground against ISIS are the Kurds. And Turkey (our NATO 'ally') has effectively declared war on them, whilst simultaneously guaranteeing ISIS safe passage and allowing them to sell their contraband oil through their borders. Maybe even arming them too?
With allies like that, adding to the mess is pointless. "
spot on my friend...feel like joining the Kurdish army myself...massive respect to all the work there doing..never mentioned in media for some reason!! |
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We're still set up for fighting an army v army style of warfare. Bombing may kill scores of ISIS but more will come to fill their shoes.
We need to focus on taking away their support network rather than trying to play high explosive Whack-A-Mole.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I just feel really sad for all the innocent people especially children who will die as a result
You've got the fuckwits screaming to bomb the fuck out of Syria but then when the poor innocent refugees come looking for somewhere half safe to live screaming that they should fuck off back and we shouldn't let them in.
If it would make a difference in the long run I'd be all for it
It won't  |
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"I agree, let's do nothing and maybe IS will start being nice people and debate their issues with Jeremy Corbyn."
I didn't advocate doing nothing nor did you elaborate which side you would like to bomb. Cameron is now wanting to bomb 'the other side' to the one he wanted to bomb previously.
Of course all are previous interventions in Iraq and Libya have totally stabilised them; haven't they?
No innocent civilians will be killed?
The way to stop the refugee crisis caused by people fleeing bombs is to drop more bombs?
Bombing by the US, the Saudis, French and Russians has not stopped ISIS; however, our bombs definitely will.
Do you really think that ISIS are a spontaneous manifestation of pure evil, something that has with no cause arisen from the bowels of the earth to hurt us, like a devil in a horror movie? We started it in Iraq by bombing the country in the first place; do you think more of the same will help?. |
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I'm for expanding the current bombing campaign into Syria.
Although there will be collateral damage, forget those that run around shouting about schools etc getting bombed, modern aircraft-dropped or fired munitions can hit a metre square target moving at up to 70 MPH from 40 miles away, mistakes are few and far between.
However, as others have said, we need to also get those who are stirring the pot from the safety of their own countries to either butt out, or declare which side they are backing, just so we know.
Bombing ISIL degrades more than just a few soldiers in a bunker, you take out command and control, supply lines, and you degrade their morale and their will to fight.
Then we need to stabilise and train the boots on the ground, the Kurds and the anti-Assad forces (minus of course any IS leaning groups), who can then finish the job.
Its not going to be an overnight fix, it could take years, but its better to go fight in their backyard, than have them come to ours..... oh, and by the way, all this bollocks about them hitting out at us because we are bombing them in Syria.... we've been bombing them for the last year or more in Iraq, same people, just another line on a map... we are targets, and have been for years! |
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This didnt start with the 1st gulf war. It started long before that whennthe anericans supported the afghan etc to fight back against russia in the late 70's and early 80's. Those trained afghans then turned on their handlers.
If bombing worked on its own then it would of already been done. This bombing campaign is nothing other than revenge. It will just go round and round. Even if they get rid of IS then all that will happen is another similar group in a new name will be created |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Oh well the powers that be have decided WE are war again but while they sleep safely in their cosy warm publicly paid for beds, our armed forces families will be dreading every knock at the door or everytime phone rings.
Hope the PM and most other mps who voted on this are held to account for innocent lives lost but I doubt it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm absolutely for it. About time we stood up for ourselves for once."
Wow..just wow..
Bombing Syrians isn't "sticking up for ourselves"
So much I could write but what's the point.... :/ |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Right then......... I'm absolutely for bombing Syria or any other country that is harboring terrorist organization's as steals cpl said further up the thread it's better to go and fight in their back yard than in ours.... All these people crying about the innocents that will die as a result well its far from ideal but I would much rather it was innocents in another country than the people of this country that were suffering!!! I personally couldn't give a shit if France would be up in arms and clamouring to support us if the attacks happened in this country, the fact is it is only a matter of time before they try and attack Britain and I say kill them before they do get here !!! There's only one way to fight terrorism and that's to keep at them and not just sit around praying they don't attack us when we are already recognised as allies to the countries that they have already attacked and therefore the enemy so stop bleating about poor them and start hoping pretty soon you aren't going to be saying poor you !!!
About time Britain made a move if u ask me !! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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pity we didnt bomb them before they got all the terrorists into other countries !! doing nothing has got us into this mess and all the lilly livered jeremy cordon lovers will have to live with their consciences when britain gets bombed just like paris !
im not political in any way but cameron was right to call cordon and his supporters terrorist sympathisers !! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The whole Middle East is a clusterfuck. All the players are there apart from China (why I wonder?) and they all have their own agendas. In recent times we have had wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen and Now Syria (Then there's the ongoing war between Israel and the Palestinians), Turkey shooting down Russian planes. What good has it all done? Created hundreds of thousands if not millions of refugees and among those are some terrorists intent on harming us. Get the hell out of the Middle East, pull out of the EU and tighten up our own borders I say. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The whole Middle East is a clusterfuck. All the players are there apart from China (why I wonder?) and they all have their own agendas. In recent times we have had wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen and Now Syria (Then there's the ongoing war between Israel and the Palestinians), Turkey shooting down Russian planes. What good has it all done? Created hundreds of thousands if not millions of refugees and among those are some terrorists intent on harming us. Get the hell out of the Middle East, pull out of the EU and tighten up our own borders I say."
Far too late for that I'm afraid |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"pity we didnt bomb them before they got all the terrorists into other countries !! doing nothing has got us into this mess and all the lilly livered jeremy cordon lovers will have to live with their consciences when britain gets bombed just like paris !
im not political in any way but cameron was right to call cordon and his supporters terrorist sympathisers !!"
This is the issue
Ok you may kill a few that are in Syria
But what about the 1000s of others that are already in numerous countries include ours!! It's a bit late now really |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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the thing is now we have the tunnel between france and britain what if france gets occupied again it will be more than refugees cming through the tunnel to britain wont it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So bomb them some more and create even more refugees and terrorists?  "
lol well we can always sit on our hands and just let them come here anyway and kill some innocent british folk if that would make you happy? lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So bomb them some more and create even more refugees and terrorists?
lol well we can always sit on our hands and just let them come here anyway and kill some innocent british folk if that would make you happy? lol"
They already are here and it is only a matter of time before they do exactly that
Dropping bombs 1000s of miles away isn't going to stop them |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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No it wouldn't make me happy but it also doesn't make me happy knowing hundreds of thousands if not millions of innocent Middle eastern folk (including women and children) have been killed in recent years. So lets go bomb them so more eh, because that has worked so well hasnt it? You can't go bombing a country or countries to oblivion without there being an exit strategy and that's exactly what our MP's voted for. A resolution to the problems in the Middle East wont be resolved until a coalition of all forces (I include in that The UK, USA, Russia, France, Germany and of course some Middle Eastern forces) come together and root out terrorism. Sadly the West and the East have different agendas and so the Middle east being the tinder box that it is could spark off something far more serious now that all parties apart from China (so far) are in theatre. It will only take one error of Judgement by one country or another to spark a crisis far worse than we are already seeing.
Sorry mate sent this privately in error. It's always good to debate though pity politicians didn't do some more of it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The bombing of the oil refineries is exactly what was required, isis controlled and being sold via turkey and onto other less selective countries creating billions of dollars for the terrorists has to be stemmed if not stopped if we have any hope of getting closer to reducing the impact they are having on Syria and the rest of the world...
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