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#YesCymru "  | |||
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#YesCymru " | |||
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"My heart says Yes! But my head is cautious. We got suckered into Brexit by some emotive slogans, national pride and pie in the sky thinking. I'd want to see some solid economics that support an indie wales first. " There's quite a bit out there, Bella Gwalia is a good place to start if you're interested. | |||
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"My heart says Yes! But my head is cautious. We got suckered into Brexit by some emotive slogans, national pride and pie in the sky thinking. I'd want to see some solid economics that support an indie wales first. There's quite a bit out there, Bella Gwalia is a good place to start if you're interested. " State of Wales has current information also | |||
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"I am very indicurious. Ive looked at both sides of a complex argument. Ive lots of pals in #YesCymru we share more in common than lots of the unionists . Its a case of heart v's head . Best advice i can give is reserch for yourself "See, I'm starting to think it's not heart v head. The argument for independence is stacking up for me. | |||
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"I am very indicurious. Ive looked at both sides of a complex argument. Ive lots of pals in #YesCymru we share more in common than lots of the unionists . Its a case of heart v's head . Best advice i can give is reserch for yourself
See, I'm starting to think it's not heart v head. The argument for independence is stacking up for me. "It is indeed | |||
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"Ud have to be one brick short of a load to vote for independence !! Especially living up here in North Wales ,we get nothing from the bastards in the sennedd now !! We'd get even less under independence !!! South Wales wud be ok tho !! " Can you explain your reasoning with examples please? Preferably without resorting to hyperbole. | |||
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"Close to joining. Wales’s future is bleak - I can’t believe people think the likes of Johnson, Rees-Mogg and Patel give a flying **** about this part of the UK, especially the areas that have suffered industrial decline. Increasingly drawn to the vision of a Wales that’s a small, outward-looking, foreward-thinking, tolerant place. It would take a huge shift in mindset and statecraft. However, the rise of YesCymru from around 2,000 members to 16,500+ this year shows something is rumbling at grass-roots level." Do it Socksy  | |||
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"Ud have to be one brick short of a load to vote for independence !! Especially living up here in North Wales ,we get nothing from the bastards in the sennedd now !! We'd get even less under independence !!! South Wales wud be ok tho !! Can you explain your reasoning with examples please? Preferably without resorting to hyperbole. " All very wel accusing others of hyperbole - I'd quite like to know what exactly you think is beginning to "stack up in favour" of independence? I think we all love the idea of having our own unique identity. And I have no faith in Boris and his cronies leading us forward in anything at all. But we are nowhere near strong enough financially to stand as an independent nation with all that that entails. | |||
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"But we are nowhere near strong enough financially to stand as an independent nation with all that that entails. " i don't thing we ever will be while westminster is in charge of the purse strings, laws, assets and resources etc. | |||
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"Close to joining. Wales’s future is bleak - I can’t believe people think the likes of Johnson, Rees-Mogg and Patel give a flying **** about this part of the UK, especially the areas that have suffered industrial decline. Increasingly drawn to the vision of a Wales that’s a small, outward-looking, foreward-thinking, tolerant place. It would take a huge shift in mindset and statecraft. However, the rise of YesCymru from around 2,000 members to 16,500+ this year shows something is rumbling at grass-roots level." The mood in Wales is changing and the arguments against independence do seem like the same old mantra . Its worth checking out Micheal Sheens little video about this . I move further from indicurios to full indi every day . I talk most days with pals from #YesCymru on twitter | |||
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"Close to joining. Wales’s future is bleak - I can’t believe people think the likes of Johnson, Rees-Mogg and Patel give a flying **** about this part of the UK, especially the areas that have suffered industrial decline. Increasingly drawn to the vision of a Wales that’s a small, outward-looking, foreward-thinking, tolerant place. It would take a huge shift in mindset and statecraft. However, the rise of YesCymru from around 2,000 members to 16,500+ this year shows something is rumbling at grass-roots level. The mood in Wales is changing and the arguments against independence do seem like the same old mantra . Its worth checking out Micheal Sheens little video about this . I move further from indicurios to full indi every day . I talk most days with pals from #YesCymru on twitter " swmae Taff. it's worth reading some of the publications mentioned earlier in the thread. they help to fill in the blanks that are left by the more anglocentric reporting in other media. i have to add that i don't agree with all of the stand points in the articles but they serve to give the debate breadth and depth. the most notable disagreement i have is when authors and pundits use terms like 'war' and 'battle' or liken seekers of independence to 'soldiers'. i personally believe that the lexicon of independence is better off with these kinds of similees excluded from the debate. | |||
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"Ud have to be one brick short of a load to vote for independence !! Especially living up here in North Wales ,we get nothing from the bastards in the sennedd now !! We'd get even less under independence !!! South Wales wud be ok tho !! Can you explain your reasoning with examples please? Preferably without resorting to hyperbole. All very wel accusing others of hyperbole - I'd quite like to know what exactly you think is beginning to "stack up in favour" of independence? I think we all love the idea of having our own unique identity. And I have no faith in Boris and his cronies leading us forward in anything at all. But we are nowhere near strong enough financially to stand as an independent nation with all that that entails. " We're absolutely financially strong enough to be an independent country, just as Malta, Cyprus, Slovenia, Denmark, Iceland etc. are. We have a fairly strong economic base with good manufacturing, farming and tourism sectors. We are a net exporter of electricity and water, 2 key commodities in the future. Only through independence can we attract greater inward investment via tax breaks and grants. Imagine a Wales with a lower corporation tax rate than competitors. At the moment Westminster won't allow this - see the move to abolish APD at Cardiff Airport quashed because it would take business away from Bristol. Yes Wales currently has a fiscal deficit, but the spending figures include expenditure on things that don't benefit Wales like HS2. And guess what? Lots of countries run a fiscal deficit. Like the UK for example... I'm not saying an independent Wales would be all milk and honey,far from it. But simplistic statements such as 'too small, too poor, too stupid' are rarely accompanied with meaningful evidence and don't stand up to scrutiny. | |||
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"Phew, that was a long one... But while I'm here... Let's look at our ttansport infrastructure. All road and rail links heading west to east and nothing north to south. All designed around extraction of wealth and resource. George Monibot wrote a great article about this 12 years ago, it's still relevant today. Worth a read. And then look at transport spending per head in Wales v other parts of the UK. It's scandalously low. " "...the Welsh rail network has not received an equitable proportion of UK rail investment over many years. The Wales Route, which represents11% of the UK rail network, has received just over 1% of rail enhancements (which are typically focussed on improving networkcapability,reliability and capacity) in recent years.The result is a less efficient railway with lower capacity versus the UK as a whole, leading to lower demand and higher subsidies per passenger; more worryingly it is also having a detrimental impact on the Welsh economy." Professor Mark Barry 18/09/2018 The Rail Network in Wales The Case for Investment | |||
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"I think we all love the idea of having our own unique identity. And I have no faith in Boris and his cronies leading us forward in anything at all. " in the modern world it is inevitable that people within Cymru will have several identities. identity is a personal thing and i believe it is separate from the question of democratic accountability. personal identity does not necessitate support for a particular way of being governed. | |||
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"Phew, that was a long one... But while I'm here... Let's look at our ttansport infrastructure. All road and rail links heading west to east and nothing north to south. All designed around extraction of wealth and resource. George Monibot wrote a great article about this 12 years ago, it's still relevant today. Worth a read. And then look at transport spending per head in Wales v other parts of the UK. It's scandalously low. "...the Welsh rail network has not received an equitable proportion of UK rail investment over many years. The Wales Route, which represents11% of the UK rail network, has received just over 1% of rail enhancements (which are typically focussed on improving networkcapability,reliability and capacity) in recent years.The result is a less efficient railway with lower capacity versus the UK as a whole, leading to lower demand and higher subsidies per passenger; more worryingly it is also having a detrimental impact on the Welsh economy." Professor Mark Barry 18/09/2018 The Rail Network in Wales The Case for Investment" The Welsh Governemnt are responsible for the Welsh Railways | |||
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"Phew, that was a long one... But while I'm here... Let's look at our ttansport infrastructure. All road and rail links heading west to east and nothing north to south. All designed around extraction of wealth and resource. George Monibot wrote a great article about this 12 years ago, it's still relevant today. Worth a read. And then look at transport spending per head in Wales v other parts of the UK. It's scandalously low. "...the Welsh rail network has not received an equitable proportion of UK rail investment over many years. The Wales Route, which represents11% of the UK rail network, has received just over 1% of rail enhancements (which are typically focussed on improving networkcapability,reliability and capacity) in recent years.The result is a less efficient railway with lower capacity versus the UK as a whole, leading to lower demand and higher subsidies per passenger; more worryingly it is also having a detrimental impact on the Welsh economy." Professor Mark Barry 18/09/2018 The Rail Network in Wales The Case for Investment The Welsh Governemnt are responsible for the Welsh Railways " Not all of it. And not for ever. The inception of TfW and some.if their proposals are huge for Wales. | |||
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"Close to joining. Wales’s future is bleak - I can’t believe people think the likes of Johnson, Rees-Mogg and Patel give a flying **** about this part of the UK, especially the areas that have suffered industrial decline. Increasingly drawn to the vision of a Wales that’s a small, outward-looking, foreward-thinking, tolerant place. It would take a huge shift in mindset and statecraft. However, the rise of YesCymru from around 2,000 members to 16,500+ this year shows something is rumbling at grass-roots level. Do it Socksy "Ha - this is the kind of political persuasion I’m deeply susceptible to .
I’m actually amazed at some of the people I know who are looking at this for the first time.
Christmas 2019, I sat around a table with some people I know (those were the days). All eight had never considered independence until the last couple of years. All were in favour, or considering it. All ages and backgrounds, some were English, some were old-school Tories. | |||
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"The Welsh Governemnt are responsible for the Welsh Railways " In restating the strategic case for rail investment in Wales, we also need to acknowledge the lower level of rail enhancement investment in Wales. Enhancements improve the capability, capacity, reliability of the rail network; the limited share of such investment in Wales has led to relatively less attractive services, attracting fewer passengers, resulting in lower modal share and higher subsidies. This is different from the Operations, Maintenance and Renewal Spend (OMR) which is about maintaining the network’s current capability and reliability. This issue was set out in the Case for Investment in 2018, where, in the period 2011-2015, an estimated shortfall in enhancement investment of £1bn was identified. Whilst ORR and NR did not officially maintain figure for Wales before 2011, we have nonetheless attempted to assess rail enhancement back to the beginning of Control Period 2 (CP2; 2001 – 2004) by reviewing the UK Government’s High Level Output Specification (HLOS) for rail and similar documents: Annual efficiency and finance assessment of Network Rail 2018-19 - 26 July 2019 Funding framework for Crossrail Crossrail annual update 2020 Network Rail Delivery Plan for 2019-2024 We have also reflected the Barnett consequential received for an increased in the DfT budget in 2015 for the period to 2019 and looked ahead to 2029, including the significant expenditure on HS2 (which will not have a direct effect on and, based on evidence from HS2 Ltd, is likely to have significant indirect economic disbenefits – on the rail network or services in Wales). Given the complexity of the rail financing ecosystem and difficulty in accurately assembling all the relevant figures, this analysis should be viewed as an “order of magnitude” guide. Actual enhancement investment and committed by the UK Government has been estimated (acknowledging some 3rd party funding so totals published by the Office for Rail and Road (ORR) and/or Network Rail are reduced by 15%), from 2001 to the end CP6 (2024) and then projected to end of CP7 (2029) and so including parts of projects like HS2 (HS2 Ltd Chairman’s Stocktake - August 2019) (£78Bn), Transpennine Upgrade (£3Bn), East-West Rail (£1Bn) is, conservatively, of the order of £102Bn. Table 1: Total UK Government investment in rail enhancements across the UK (via NR and other organisations) Period/Project UK Enhancements (£bn) Examples of major projects CP2 (2001-2004) £2.00 West Coast Mainline CP3 (2004-2009) £4.93 West Coast Mainline CP4 (2009-2014) £11.26 Crossrail, Great Western Electrification (GWEP), Thameslink, Stations Improvement CP5 (2014-2019) £16.80 GWEP, Crossrail, Midland Mainline Upgrade CP6 (2019 – 2024) £8.84 Crossrail, East Coast Mainline (ECML) Enhancements, Midland Mainline, Great Western Electrification Programme (GWEP), Initial Trans-Pennine Upgrade (TPU), South West Resilience CP7 (2024-2029) £8.50 Assumed ongoing TPU, East-West Rail, Clapham Junction enhancement HS2 Spend to summer 2019 £5.10 Design, Land Assembly HS2 Phase 1 (less spent) £31.90 Construction to Birmingham HS2 Phase 2a £4.00 Construction to/and Crewe Hub Crossrail to 2019 £8.00 Estimated UK Gov via capex or loan (excludes 3rd party funding via GLA, TfL etc) Crossrail further costs to 2022 £1.00 Estimated further overspend Vs 2019 est. Total UK Network £102Bn In that same period, UK Government rail enhancement spend in Wales is estimated as follows: Table 2: UK Government investment in enhancements to the Wales rail network (via NR or committed via TfW) Period Wales Network Enhancements (£Bn) Primary Projects CP2 (2001-2004) £0.05 We could not identify any substantive UKG funded enhancement projects so allocated a nominal £50M CP3 (2004-2009) £0.10 We could not find any substantive UKG funded enhancement projects so allocated a nominal £100M. The primary projects funded (VoG Line, Ebbw Valley, Merthyr Enhancements) were funded by the Welsh Government CP4 (2009-2014) £0.20 Some of CASR (which is primarily a renewal project); Ebbw Town extension (WG funded) CP5 (2014-2019) £0.74 GWEP (includes SWML through Severn Tunnel to Pilning). This is the ORR reported figure for NR Enhancement in Wales Route (exc 3rd party funding which totalled £160M) CP6 (2019 – 2024) £0.35 Estimated Core Valley Lines (CVL) Contribution (£190M), Cardiff Central Upgrade (£60), Completion of GWEP CP7 (2024-2029) N/A Nothing committed at present Total Wales Network £1.44BN If one then adds an estimated £755M from a Barnett Consequential received in 2015 (related to an increase in the UK Government’s Department of Transport budget for the period to 2019, rather than explicit decisions taken by the UK Government), the total UK Government rail enhancement “investment” in Wales, from 2001 to 2029 is of the order of £2.2Bn. This is a most generous interpretation and likely overstates the actual figure. Over the same period the Welsh Government has invested, or is committed to invest, approximately £1bn.This includes projects like the Ebbw Valley and Vale of Glamorgan reopenings, a number of new and improved stations, and our major commitment to the South Wales Metro. As a comparator, the apportionment of total UK spend from 2001 to 2029 to enhancements in Wales on the basis of a population allocation (~5%) would be approximately £5.1Bn or, on the basis of route length (11%), £10.2bn. This suggests an “underinvestment” of between £2.9Bn and £8Bn. Nonetheless, we acknowledge that CP5 has been more beneficial to Wales given investment in the electrification of the Great Western mainline to Cardiff (despite the cancellation of electrification to Swansea) but note that costs allocated to the Wales route also include all those associated with the electrification of the Severn Tunnel. This sets a precedent for a route-based allocation of enhancement investment for Wales. However, projecting known commitments for the period from 2019 to 2029, we estimate shortfalls of between £2.4bn and £5.1bn. This is based on £350m of UK Government enhancement investment (including part of CVL & Cardiff Central) compared with at least £50bn across the UK in total. Whilst there is clearly some margin of error in this analysis, it is clear that Wales’ rail network has and continues to be, disadvantaged by the current process for developing and funding major rail enhancement in the UK when there is a significant case for investment across a number of strategic programmes which will benefit both Wales and the UK. This is primarily due to the non-devolved nature of the rail network in Wales and the assessment and prioritisation of schemes on an “England and Wales” basis”. It is also worth stating that lower levels of enhancement investment over a prolonged period contributes to a subsequent lower share of ongoing OMR investment (the Wales Route with 11% of the network receives about 6% of OMR investment). Similarly, a railway starved of enhancement becomes less attractive, drawing fewer passengers leading to higher subsidies. It’s an unvirtuous cycle. This is very different to the situation in Scotland which has resulted in significant enhancement of its network since 2006 when powers and funding transferred to the Scottish Government. There has also been much discussion related to the application of the Barnett formula. However, its complexity and application at departmental level makes any mitigating intervention to address rail enhancement underfunding in Wales quite challenging. For example, a previous increase in the DfT budget (as a result of projects like HS2 and probably Crossrail) at the last five-year spending review in 2015, for the period 2015/16 to 2020/21, did generate a Barnett allocation. This was due to the higher DfT attribution factor because in the previous financial year, non-devolved projects like HS2 were a relatively small proportion of overall DfT spending (and NR enhancements were completely excluded). However, today HS2 (and now NR enhancement spend) has increased the “non-devolved” proportion of the DfT’s budget which is likely to result in a significant reduction in the DfT’s Barnett attribution factor. Future spending review changes in budget allocations in the DfT (devolved or non-devolved) would then only generate much smaller consequentials. Furthermore, it is not yet clear whether the UK Government will accept that the transfer of the CVL to Wales should be taken into account in the Barnett attribution factor in the forthcoming spending review. For Wales, ensuring projects like HS2 and rail enhancement spend are included in the DfT DEL and with a “devolved” attribution factor, will help Welsh Government receive a more proportionate share of UK rail enhancement funding. Alternatively, HS2 and NR could remain outside the DfT DEL (very unlikely) but have all the relevant spend identified as “devolved” which would trigger 100% attribution-based allocations. Although investment decisions are ultimately taken by politicians in Westminster, this systematic underinvestment is built into, and magnified, not only into the scheme prioritisation process, but also by the analytical framework which the UK Government rely upon to produce business cases and value for money assessments . The industry’s forecasting approach has significantly overestimated demand for schemes in London (by as much as 50%) and underestimated demand for those elsewhere in the UK (by over 50%), including Wales. Higher passenger forecasts mean more time savings (bigger benefits), increased revenue forecasts (lower costs), and better value for money cases. It is clear that Wales’ rail network has been depreciated and underinvested compared to the network in England. This is fettering our ability to develop an integrated transport network, limiting our ability to attract commuters from their cars, reduce harmful emissions, and the performance of our economy. Whilst any commitment to the funding of rail network improvements in Wales by the UK Government is welcome, there is a clear disconnect between the Welsh Government’s commitment to public transport to support decarbonisation and equality, the needs of people in Wales to access jobs, services, and education, and the decision-making processes used by the UK Government to distribute funding across the network in England and Wales. A UK Government levelling up agenda must include a major overhaul of the process for rail scheme development, funding, and delivery in Wales. The transfer of the CVL to the Welsh Government, provides a catalyst for further reform; without which we will continue to rely on the UK Government to fund and deliver the enhancements that are clearly needed to our rail network across Wales. The status quo is not an option. Report Historical investment in rail infrastructure enhancements Rail enhancement funding in Wales First published: 19 September 2020 Last updated: 19 September 2020 | |||
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"That's some quality cut and paste skills there
Even I'm not going to read all that though "I did  | |||
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"That's some quality cut and paste skills there
Even I'm not going to read all that though
I did "charae teg del | |||
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"That's some quality cut and paste skills there
Even I'm not going to read all that though "sori butty ... rheolau'r fab ... dim links | |||
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"That's some quality cut and paste skills there
Even I'm not going to read all that though
sori butty ... rheolau'r fab ... dim links "I like this man | |||
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"That's some quality cut and paste skills there
Even I'm not going to read all that though
sori butty ... rheolau'r fab ... dim links
I like this man " | |||
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"I've just joined #annibyniaeth " da iawn brawd | |||
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"I've just joined #annibyniaeth da iawn brawd "Diolch | |||
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"So what currency would we use? " Rarebits | |||
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"So what currency would we use? " good question. let's broaden the debate. Currency dictates many aspects of daily life despite being something we don’t really notice because we’re fortunate that things rarely go wrong. It’s a question as to whether something so fundamental to the foundations of the state needs the consent of the people? The big argument against holding a currency referendum is that the issue – as you can probably tell from this series of posts – is incredibly complicated and beyond the understanding of the average citizen. It would be very easy to pull the wool over their eyes and we could be locked into making a bad choice because of populism (*cough* I can’t think of anything recent like that *cough*). Therefore, holding a currency referendum should only happen if changing the currency is likely to either require altering the Constitution or taking a huge monetary policy gamble. If Wales were to enter a formal currency union with the pound sterling, adopt the pound as a substitute currency or adopt a Welsh currency pegged to the pound, there would be no need for a referendum because nothing really changes. However, it’s almost certain that if Wales were going to join the euro it would require a referendum because we would presumably have rejoined the EU and that will have changed any written Welsh Constitution. You can argue that a floating Welsh currency straddles the line between the two. Wales could, of course, hold a two-stage multi-option referendum where the two most popular options go to run-off vote 2/3 months after the first vote. Summary of the Options Keep the pound in a formal currency union (Part II) – Wales negotiates to retain the pound sterling in a currency union with England/Former UK. The Bank of England would become the lender of last resort, there would need to be some – if not total – retention of existing financial service rules and budget guidance, with Wales retaining the same physical currency as England. While we wouldn’t need to establish our own central bank and disruption would be kept to a minimum, key monetary and fiscal powers for Wales would essentially be decided by and for England. Use a substitute currency (Part III) – Wales unilaterally adopts a currency as legal tender (presumably the pound) but without a formal currency union. While Wales would get most monetary and fiscal power levers, the value of the currency and key levers like interest rates would still be set by a foreign government and/or central bank. It’s also not a credible option for a developed nation that wants to be treated with respect on the international stage. Join the euro (Part IV) – This one we can be more certain of: an independent Wales couldn’t join the euro from the off. Firstly, Wales would have to rejoin the EU; like it or not Wales voted to leave in 2016 – that means another EU referendum – no thanks! Then we would have to voluntarily join in the ERM II fixed exchange rate for at least two years (which means having a different currency in the interim or adopting the euro as a substitute) and we would have to abide by strict eurozone budget guidelines which may eventually become a full fiscal union. However, we would be in a union of several big players in international trade and this may see a boost in exports and other investments. A pegged Welsh currency (Part V) – A similar policy option to the one the Republic of Ireland pursued between 1927-1979 and currently used by the likes of Denmark or being actively considered by Iceland. Wales would have our own currency and retain nearly all monetary and fiscal policies, but the value of the Welsh currency would be fixed to that of another currency (like the pound) ideally on a 1:1 basis. While this is safer than completely going it alone and provides a measure of fiscal independence, it would mean having large currency reserves and seeking to maintain the exchange rate ahead of other economic and fiscal priorities. A floating Welsh currency – (Part VI) – The “indy-max” option whereby Wales establishes our own free-floating exchange rate currency. We would have total control over monetary supply, interest rates, financial regulations, deficit management etc. but it also means Wales – if the economy is poorly managed – would be at risk of rampant inflation and lead to people and businesses moving their money out of the country; however, the opposite is also true and many small nations (Norway, Switzerland) operate their own floating currencies without many problems. excerpt from Owen Donovan's series of articles on monetary policy published 31/07/2017 in the journal State of Wales | |||
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"wales has no mandate to raise taxes other than council tax so that would be an impossibility i'm affraid. neither do we have a mandate to borrow from financial institutions or against national assets. we rely on handouts from the chancellor mr hi risk anus" Thank you for massively enhancing my view that Fab Swingers is the wrong place to find out facts about politics. Much love x
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"wales has no mandate to raise taxes other than council tax so that would be an impossibility i'm affraid. neither do we have a mandate to borrow from financial institutions or against national assets. we rely on handouts from the chancellor mr hi risk anus Thank you for massively enhancing my view that Fab Swingers is the wrong place to find out facts about politics. Much love x
"Yes,yes, Wales can set income tax rates now, plus land transaction tax. Corporation tax would be more useful though and I can't see Westminster allowing that to happen for fear of another Celtic Tiger. Do you know that the £13bn deficit includes all manner of things that doesn't benefit Wales, things like HS2, cross rail and so on? Also, why is everyone so concerned with a fiscal deficit? The vast majority of countries in the world are in a fiscal deficit, including the UK. So an independent Wales would have an opportunity to raise tax revenues, controversially cut spending on certain welfare segments and fund the difference via borrowing. The fiscal deficit is a large challenge for Wales but not insurmountable. I have often wondered, if Wales (plus Scotland and N.I) is such a drain on Westminster resources, why don't they cut us loose? | |||
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"i was meaning they have no mandate from etholwyr cymru due to their 2016 manifesto pledges not to raise the threshold during this senedd cycle. there is mention of a 1p increase next cycle though, to fund social care" I'm guessing the 1p will be on the higher rate tax bands which I could reluctantly tolerate. I'd like to see expenditure trimmed in certain areas too though. For example, there's no way I should qualify for free prescriptions on basic items. | |||
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"i was meaning they have no mandate from etholwyr cymru due to their 2016 manifesto pledges not to raise the threshold during this senedd cycle. there is mention of a 1p increase next cycle though, to fund social care I'm guessing the 1p will be on the higher rate tax bands which I could reluctantly tolerate. I'd like to see expenditure trimmed in certain areas too though. For example, there's no way I should qualify for free prescriptions on basic items. " i think giving up another few % on tax would be well worth what we could get back in life in other areas if we didn't blow it all on london style vanity projects such as garden bridges, cable cars, helter skelters etc | |||
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Can tell you this though......people are a LOT friendlier here than down South and we are so pleased we decided on Wales to be our new home | |||
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"Such a difficult call. I’m so proud to be Welsh, but when you see how large parts of the population have behaved during lock down then I worry. If we can’t do such as basic thing as staying at home, what chance do we have at running our own country. I’m not trying to antagonise as I say it with a heavy heart. " then let's open up the debate and shed light into the dark corners. there's a great many questions to be asked but with plenty of civilised discussion, eventually we will find the answers we need to make an informed choice. | |||
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"Although not Welsh - we moved up from St Marys Bay in Kent last January, we personally believe that it should be your choice to do as you choose
Can tell you this though......people are a LOT friendlier here than down South and we are so pleased we decided on Wales to be our new home "croeso i wales a'r ddadl ar ei ddyfodol... welcome to Cymru and the debate on it's future | |||
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"Yes Cymru!! " | |||
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"Such a difficult call. I’m so proud to be Welsh, but when you see how large parts of the population have behaved during lock down then I worry. If we can’t do such as basic thing as staying at home, what chance do we have at running our own country. I’m not trying to antagonise as I say it with a heavy heart. " Welsh people aren’t unique in that. Nothing to do with being independent. Idiots will live in any country, independent or not | |||
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"Such a difficult call. I’m so proud to be Welsh, but when you see how large parts of the population have behaved during lock down then I worry. If we can’t do such as basic thing as staying at home, what chance do we have at running our own country. I’m not trying to antagonise as I say it with a heavy heart. " I hope this comes across OK. If independence was to work, it would need a revolution - a revolution in the way we: educate people, support the areas of Wales that have struggled so badly economically since the collapse of heavy industries, attract modern industries e.g. tech companies, sustainable energy (Wales has the potential/resources to be a world leader), treat the most in vulnerable in society e.g. the elderly and how we see our place in the world. I agree that the population doesn’t exactly display good characteristics often - that’s, in part, the product of decades of neglect and inequality. It’s in the interests of the truly powerful to keep the masses ill-informed, transfixed by rubbish TV and paralytic on a Saturday night. People need to wake up and realise it’s not the Polish woman working night shifts in a care home that’s the source of their woes. It’s striking now different some, more equal societies are in terms of behaviour and education. The pandemic has brought this into sharp focus. It also needs an awareness of Wales’s history, how we got to where we are and how it needs to change. People get wrapped up in stereotypical flag-waving displays of patriotism, but know very little about the real story (good and bad). I probably sound like an arch-socialist - I’m actually centre-left, and more interested in the practical and possible normally. I’m still on the fence about independence, but see no future for Wales (or parts of England, Scotland and NI) in the current situation. Phew - I need a lie down! | |||
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"Although not Welsh - we moved up from St Marys Bay in Kent last January, we personally believe that it should be your choice to do as you choose
Can tell you this though......people are a LOT friendlier here than down South and we are so pleased we decided on Wales to be our new home "Croeso! I’ve got friends from all around the world living in Wales. Love hearing people’s positive stories. Forget the (very important) political side of things for a minute - this daft part of the world is truly beautiful . | |||
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"Such a difficult call. I’m so proud to be Welsh, but when you see how large parts of the population have behaved during lock down then I worry. If we can’t do such as basic thing as staying at home, what chance do we have at running our own country. I’m not trying to antagonise as I say it with a heavy heart. I hope this comes across OK. If independence was to work, it would need a revolution - a revolution in the way we: educate people, support the areas of Wales that have struggled so badly economically since the collapse of heavy industries, attract modern industries e.g. tech companies, sustainable energy (Wales has the potential/resources to be a world leader), treat the most in vulnerable in society e.g. the elderly and how we see our place in the world. I agree that the population doesn’t exactly display good characteristics often - that’s, in part, the product of decades of neglect and inequality. It’s in the interests of the truly powerful to keep the masses ill-informed, transfixed by rubbish TV and paralytic on a Saturday night. People need to wake up and realise it’s not the Polish woman working night shifts in a care home that’s the source of their woes. It’s striking now different some, more equal societies are in terms of behaviour and education. The pandemic has brought this into sharp focus. It also needs an awareness of Wales’s history, how we got to where we are and how it needs to change. People get wrapped up in stereotypical flag-waving displays of patriotism, but know very little about the real story (good and bad). I probably sound like an arch-socialist - I’m actually centre-left, and more interested in the practical and possible normally. I’m still on the fence about independence, but see no future for Wales (or parts of England, Scotland and NI) in the current situation. Phew - I need a lie down! " Good post. If we keep doing what we've always done, we'll keep getting what we've always got. | |||
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"If we keep doing what we've always done, we'll keep getting what we've always got. " cryno | |||
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"Although not Welsh - we moved up from St Marys Bay in Kent last January, we personally believe that it should be your choice to do as you choose
Can tell you this though......people are a LOT friendlier here than down South and we are so pleased we decided on Wales to be our new home
croeso i wales a'r ddadl ar ei ddyfodol...
welcome to Cymru and the debate on it's future
"Thank you | |||
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"Such a difficult call. I’m so proud to be Welsh, but when you see how large parts of the population have behaved during lock down then I worry. If we can’t do such as basic thing as staying at home, what chance do we have at running our own country. I’m not trying to antagonise as I say it with a heavy heart. I hope this comes across OK. If independence was to work, it would need a revolution - a revolution in the way we: educate people, support the areas of Wales that have struggled so badly economically since the collapse of heavy industries, attract modern industries e.g. tech companies, sustainable energy (Wales has the potential/resources to be a world leader), treat the most in vulnerable in society e.g. the elderly and how we see our place in the world. I agree that the population doesn’t exactly display good characteristics often - that’s, in part, the product of decades of neglect and inequality. It’s in the interests of the truly powerful to keep the masses ill-informed, transfixed by rubbish TV and paralytic on a Saturday night. People need to wake up and realise it’s not the Polish woman working night shifts in a care home that’s the source of their woes. It’s striking now different some, more equal societies are in terms of behaviour and education. The pandemic has brought this into sharp focus. It also needs an awareness of Wales’s history, how we got to where we are and how it needs to change. People get wrapped up in stereotypical flag-waving displays of patriotism, but know very little about the real story (good and bad). I probably sound like an arch-socialist - I’m actually centre-left, and more interested in the practical and possible normally. I’m still on the fence about independence, but see no future for Wales (or parts of England, Scotland and NI) in the current situation. Phew - I need a lie down! " Best post for a while. Lets consider doing things differently, but avoid creating our own Animal Farm. Leadership is key here as most people get bored really quickly and end up leaving it to the zealots... | |||
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"Just one question: if Wales went it alone where would the money come from? We have no real industry to depend on that would raise enough money to support education, health, polic, infrastructure etc. At moment Westminster gives Wales circa £9billion a year and that excludes defence. This isn’t a political question I promise " There is some analysis out there. YesCymru has a document called Independence in Your Pocket. However, for a sober analysis of the issue, I’d recommend a detailed blog by Rhys David. I don’t think posting links is allowed, but ahould be easy to find online. One point I think gets overlooked is how attractive an outward looking, internationalist Wales would be to businesses, in contrast to an England that is erecting barriers to trade. Thanks for the nice response people made to an earlier post, btw . | |||
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"My official membership arrived today Member number 16609 #IndyWales "An auspicious day . | |||
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"Some good posts here. What the independence movement should avoid is conflating independence with membership of the EU. Gain independence first then ask the nation about Europe. " i agree. i also feel left and right politics is best left when discussing independence also. | |||
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"YesCymru have over 17,000 members now. That's some achievement considering where they were in January 2020. " Regardless of where people stand on this, it definitely is. What’s been interesting is seeing how membership spikes each time something the Cummings affair happens. Personally, I think Wales is going to be immeasurably damaged by the trade barriers erected by not being in the SM and CU. I accept that all voices should be heard though in a new Wales. | |||
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"YesCymru have over 17,000 members now. That's some achievement considering where they were in January 2020. " How many do Scrap the assembly have? How many does the renamed party Reform UK have? Then the traditional party numbers? 6 May 2021 is a Wales election day. We can taste the pudding on the 7th | |||
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"..... One point I think gets overlooked is how attractive an outward looking, internationalist Wales would be to businesses, in contrast to an England that is erecting barriers to trade. ....." Got to be a joke, claiming England/UK is erecting barriers to trade, when it has so far got trading agreements with almost half the world and more agreed weekly???? | |||
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"..... One point I think gets overlooked is how attractive an outward looking, internationalist Wales would be to businesses, in contrast to an England that is erecting barriers to trade. ..... Got to be a joke, claiming England/UK is erecting barriers to trade, when it has so far got trading agreements with almost half the world and more agreed weekly????" I think I’d have a chat with the Scottish fisherman and road hauliers. We’ve left the Custom Union and Single Market - that inevitably means non-tariff barriers to trade with these our biggest (and always will be biggest) export market. A whole new world of barriers and bureaucracy. We’re actually the only country in memory to leave an organisation to erect barriers to business and trade. People’s livelihoods are already going down the drain. They were sold a shoddy lie about trade if we left the EU. There is no way to “sort this” outside the CU/SU. Businesses are generally pro-trade, pro-free movement of goods, capital and labour, and know the importance of exporting to the biggest free trade block in the World. If Wales had that access (not easy to achieve), it would be hugeky attractive to businesses. People tried to explain that leaving the CU an SU meant inefficiency and pain for business, but hey - blue passports, eh .
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"Good news that 16 and 17 year old can vote in the assembly elections, not just old peopoe "it's their country too.
are you aware of Deddf Llesiant Cenedlaethau’r Dyfodol (Cymru) 2015/Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015? | |||
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"Good news that 16 and 17 year old can vote in the assembly elections, not just old peopoe
it's their country too.
are you aware of Deddf Llesiant Cenedlaethau’r Dyfodol (Cymru) 2015/Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015? "Whose, the old or the young? My comment was meant purely in jest btw, no disrespect was meant towards the more mature amongst us. But I definitely think it is a good thing that younger people get to have a say | |||
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"Good news that 16 and 17 year old can vote in the assembly elections, not just old peopoe
it's their country too.
are you aware of Deddf Llesiant Cenedlaethau’r Dyfodol (Cymru) 2015/Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015?
Whose, the old or the young?
My comment was meant purely in jest btw, no disrespect was meant towards the more mature amongst us. But I definitely think it is a good thing that younger people get to have a say "i think you misunderstood me. i believe 16&17 year olds have a right to vote. also the legislation i mentioned as an act that basically says the current generation can't 'fuck things up' for any future generation. i think that's an admiable sentiment. as far as i know it's globally unique but i am open to being proved wrong on that. | |||
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"Good news that 16 and 17 year old can vote in the assembly elections, not just old peopoe
it's their country too.
are you aware of Deddf Llesiant Cenedlaethau’r Dyfodol (Cymru) 2015/Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015?
Whose, the old or the young?
My comment was meant purely in jest btw, no disrespect was meant towards the more mature amongst us. But I definitely think it is a good thing that younger people get to have a say
i think you misunderstood me. i believe 16&17 year olds have a right to vote. also the legislation i mentioned as an act that basically says the current generation can't 'fuck things up' for any future generation. i think that's an admiable sentiment. as far as i know it's globally unique but i am open to being proved wrong on that."I wasn't sure tbh so thought I'd apologise to be on the safe side Some people look for any reason to take offence sometimes | |||
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"Good news that 16 and 17 year old can vote in the assembly elections, not just old peopoe
it's their country too.
are you aware of Deddf Llesiant Cenedlaethau’r Dyfodol (Cymru) 2015/Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015?
Whose, the old or the young?
My comment was meant purely in jest btw, no disrespect was meant towards the more mature amongst us. But I definitely think it is a good thing that younger people get to have a say
i think you misunderstood me. i believe 16&17 year olds have a right to vote. also the legislation i mentioned as an act that basically says the current generation can't 'fuck things up' for any future generation. i think that's an admiable sentiment. as far as i know it's globally unique but i am open to being proved wrong on that.
I wasn't sure tbh so thought I'd apologise to be on the safe side
Some people look for any reason to take offence sometimes "I can't believe you've said that some people look for any reason to take offence!! How dare you generalise like that FFS! I'm fuming here  | |||
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"Good news that 16 and 17 year old can vote in the assembly elections, not just old peopoe
it's their country too.
are you aware of Deddf Llesiant Cenedlaethau’r Dyfodol (Cymru) 2015/Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015?
Whose, the old or the young?
My comment was meant purely in jest btw, no disrespect was meant towards the more mature amongst us. But I definitely think it is a good thing that younger people get to have a say
i think you misunderstood me. i believe 16&17 year olds have a right to vote. also the legislation i mentioned as an act that basically says the current generation can't 'fuck things up' for any future generation. i think that's an admiable sentiment. as far as i know it's globally unique but i am open to being proved wrong on that.
I wasn't sure tbh so thought I'd apologise to be on the safe side
Some people look for any reason to take offence sometimes
I can't believe you've said that some people look for any reason to take offence!! How dare you generalise like that FFS! I'm fuming here " | |||
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"Some people will always be grateful for what they've got, others will always be bitter about what they haven't. The former will be significantly happier in life than the latter "A bit like independence? | |||
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"Why 16 plus, why not 14 plus? If I was 16 and eligible to vote, I would be fuming that I'm good enough to be used as a voter, but not to buy, fags, beer, drive a car, buy a kitchen knife, betting and gambling, join this site, watch porn, drive a car, get a loan, get married/join the military without permission, actually stand in the election, get a tattoo, be classes as an adult in law. To mention a few things." well it's written into law now so you will just have to accept it and move on. also i think a good point has been raised there with the military. i can see wales stopping the forces from recruiting under 18's in the not too distant future and rightly so. | |||
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"Why 16 plus, why not 14 plus? If I was 16 and eligible to vote, I would be fuming that I'm good enough to be used as a voter, but not to buy, fags, beer, drive a car, buy a kitchen knife, betting and gambling, join this site, watch porn, drive a car, get a loan, get married/join the military without permission, actually stand in the election, get a tattoo, be classes as an adult in law. To mention a few things." It is a straightforward votes grab by Labour, nothing more, nothing less | |||
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"Why 16 plus, why not 14 plus? If I was 16 and eligible to vote, I would be fuming that I'm good enough to be used as a voter, but not to buy, fags, beer, drive a car, buy a kitchen knife, betting and gambling, join this site, watch porn, drive a car, get a loan, get married/join the military without permission, actually stand in the election, get a tattoo, be classes as an adult in law. To mention a few things. It is a straightforward votes grab by Labour, nothing more, nothing less " Except the young are also driving the Independence movement. Labour in Wales will go the way of Labour in Scotland if they're not careful. | |||
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"Why 16 plus, why not 14 plus? If I was 16 and eligible to vote, I would be fuming that I'm good enough to be used as a voter, but not to buy, fags, beer, drive a car, buy a kitchen knife, betting and gambling, join this site, watch porn, drive a car, get a loan, get married/join the military without permission, actually stand in the election, get a tattoo, be classes as an adult in law. To mention a few things. It is a straightforward votes grab by Labour, nothing more, nothing less Except the young are also driving the Independence movement. Labour in Wales will go the way of Labour in Scotland if they're not careful. " Why does everyone presume the younger generation will vote Labour?? | |||
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" We could not afford independance just look at all the money we ve received from london during covid... the roll out or lack of roll out of the vaccine shows the senedd are incompetent at organising anything." hi, thanks for adding to the debate. i would be very keen on seeing your data regarding your post, in order to compare it to the data i'm looking at here. it would be very interesting to compare the research so we can make a properly informed choice. | |||
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" We could not afford independance just look at all the money we ve received from london during covid... the roll out or lack of roll out of the vaccine shows the senedd are incompetent at organising anything. hi, thanks for adding to the debate. i would be very keen on seeing your data regarding your post, in order to compare it to the data i'm looking at here. it would be very interesting to compare the research so we can make a properly informed choice." This would be really interesting to see My mothers reason for not supporting independence is that she too believes we "can't afford it" I just think the older generation (or some of them ) have been some what conditioned into believing we need Westminster to survive, like some kind of controlling, abusive relationship | |||
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"The majority of the welsh public voted to leave the eu to do away with unwanted beurocrats yet we put up with the welsh assembly. Why do we need more overpaid and underworked public officers who promice everything deliver nothing and don't listen or do ask we ask when we already have local councils and Uk MP's who are doing that. " Because it was voted for in two referendums. Will of the people, taking back control, democracy - all those reasons which Brexiteers cherish....except when it comes to little old Wales .
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"The majority of the welsh public voted to leave the eu to do away with unwanted beurocrats yet we put up with the welsh assembly. Why do we need more overpaid and underworked public officers who promice everything deliver nothing and don't listen or do ask we ask when we already have local councils and Uk MP's who are doing that. " the assembly was voted for by a majority by means of a referendum and so they are proven to be very much wanted. but i agree, i feel it would be beneficial to wales if some tiers of government were stripped away. i agree on your idea that uk mp's promise everything yet deliver nothing and i believe that the benefit would be felt most by leaving the UK and all the terrible governance that the UK represents. this way, wales can move forward out of the stagnation that has prevented us from improving peoples lives. the soundbite of levelling up the north makes no mention about improving life in wales and concentrates fully on england alone. this is a problem, the same problem that has and always will be. | |||
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"For wales to be an independent nation it needs a whole plethora of things to happen. An economy, a workforce that is willing and able to adapt, strong political stability and leadership. Instead what do we have? No economic stability, a workforce that is hidebound and sclerotic and a political system and leadership that is unable and unwilling to make decisions." if life is how you describe it under the current westminster regime, then you have indeed, albeit inadvertently, made what is probably the best case for wales becoming independent. | |||
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"For wales to be an independent nation it needs a whole plethora of things to happen. An economy, a workforce that is willing and able to adapt, strong political stability and leadership. Instead what do we have? No economic stability, a workforce that is hidebound and sclerotic and a political system and leadership that is unable and unwilling to make decisions. if life is how you describe it under the current westminster regime, then you have indeed, albeit inadvertently, made what is probably the best case for wales becoming independent." I am referring to the Welsh assembly, we have had 20 years of rule by a labour led administration and what exactly have they achieved ? Companies will not relocate to South Wales due partly to the restrictions of transport bottlenecks IE, when the M4 relief road was first proposed, it was stopped because it would cost £500 million, ten years later that cost was £1.2 billion in ten years time those costs will seem to be a bargain Our hopes of being an independent nation are frankly a load of hot air, and yes I am a passionate Welshman and want Wales to prosper, but I’m also a realist and know that independence will be the death knell of us | |||
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"The majority of the welsh public voted to leave the eu to do away with unwanted beurocrats yet we put up with the welsh assembly. Why do we need more overpaid and underworked public officers who promice everything deliver nothing and don't listen or do ask we ask when we already have local councils and Uk MP's who are doing that. Because it was voted for in two referendums. Will of the people, taking back control, democracy - all those reasons which Brexiteers cherish....except when it comes to little old Wales .
"I am born and bread in wales and so are all my family but we all still agree the assembly is not fit for purpose and without Uk assistance wales would not be able to survive independently especially if we were to be governed by that aforementioned assembly and its current leaders and members. | |||
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"I am referring to the Welsh assembly, we have had 20 years of rule by a labour led administration and what exactly have they achieved ? Companies will not relocate to South Wales due partly to the restrictions of transport bottlenecks IE, when the M4 relief road was first proposed, it was stopped because it would cost £500 million, ten years later that cost was £1.2 billion in ten years time those costs will seem to be a bargain Our hopes of being an independent nation are frankly a load of hot air, and yes I am a passionate Welshman and want Wales to prosper, but I’m also a realist and know that independence will be the death knell of us" hi and thanks for the reply, however i'm sorry i have to disagree with you when you offer an arguement based on suppositions. i would be very interested in any data, references or quantifiable facts that you can share so we can all make an informed decision. | |||
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"Ps why do we need A.m's when we have MP's and local council leaders. The MP's speak for Wales in parliament so why not double them up for both that way the people who reprisent Wales in parliament will also be the people who make the descisions, saving the welsh tax payer money that could be used for the people all over wales not for a useless clique in Cardiff" i disagree. wales is detrimentally under-represented in westminster with only 60 voices utterly lost amongst the 590 other voices. this will soon be reduced to 40 if the conservative and unionist party push through their gerrymander later this year. with so little say in the union it is little wonder that the governments levelling up soundbites excludes wales. | |||
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"I am referring to the Welsh assembly, we have had 20 years of rule by a labour led administration and what exactly have they achieved ? Companies will not relocate to South Wales due partly to the restrictions of transport bottlenecks IE, when the M4 relief road was first proposed, it was stopped because it would cost £500 million, ten years later that cost was £1.2 billion in ten years time those costs will seem to be a bargain Our hopes of being an independent nation are frankly a load of hot air, and yes I am a passionate Welshman and want Wales to prosper, but I’m also a realist and know that independence will be the death knell of us hi and thanks for the reply, however i'm sorry i have to disagree with you when you offer an arguement based on suppositions. i would be very interested in any data, references or quantifiable facts that you can share so we can all make an informed decision." What supposition’s are you referring to? The initial cost of the M4 relief road was £500million when it was first proposed, this had risen to £1.2 billion when our current first minister cancelled it. If you look at the records of the WAG it’s there in black and white. | |||
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"Ok, lets have some facts. What will Wales look like after Wexit? The experience of Brexit is not very positive, so how will we make Wales better and what does better look like? & please, no lies, we’ve had enough of thein Brexit..." Hard to provide facts about what could happen in the future. An independent Wales would look like what the people living in Wales wanted it to look like which is a crucial difference to now. Personally I'd hope for an outward looking country that values education and the environment in order to attract the industries needed to improve our economy. Only an independent country set and spend on education and set attractive corporation tax rates etc to attract business. | |||
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"I am referring to the Welsh assembly, we have had 20 years of rule by a labour led administration and what exactly have they achieved ? Companies will not relocate to South Wales due partly to the restrictions of transport bottlenecks IE, when the M4 relief road was first proposed, it was stopped because it would cost £500 million, ten years later that cost was £1.2 billion in ten years time those costs will seem to be a bargain Our hopes of being an independent nation are frankly a load of hot air, and yes I am a passionate Welshman and want Wales to prosper, but I’m also a realist and know that independence will be the death knell of us hi and thanks for the reply, however i'm sorry i have to disagree with you when you offer an arguement based on suppositions. i would be very interested in any data, references or quantifiable facts that you can share so we can all make an informed decision. What supposition’s are you referring to? The initial cost of the M4 relief road was £500million when it was first proposed, this had risen to £1.2 billion when our current first minister cancelled it. If you look at the records of the WAG it’s there in black and white. " If you build more roads you get more traffic. Wales needs to focus on public transport, 'green' industry, tech and education. If this pandemic has taught us one thing it's that we do not need to be travelling as much as we have been. | |||
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"Ok, lets have some facts. What will Wales look like after Wexit? The experience of Brexit is not very positive, so how will we make Wales better and what does better look like? & please, no lies, we’ve had enough of thein Brexit... Hard to provide facts about what could happen in the future. An independent Wales would look like what the people living in Wales wanted it to look like which is a crucial difference to now. Personally I'd hope for an outward looking country that values education and the environment in order to attract the industries needed to improve our economy. Only an independent country set and spend on education and set attractive corporation tax rates etc to attract business. " I appreciate you trying to answer my question. But could I point out that your answer is not dissimilar to Nigel Farages or Boris Johnson. It sounds appealing, but actually struggles to deliver as it is is based on hope and dreams. I’m not trying to be facetious, but the most recent example of trying to do this has not got off to the most auspicious of starts... | |||
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"I appreciate you trying to answer my question. But could I point out that your answer is not dissimilar to Nigel Farages or Boris Johnson. It sounds appealing, but actually struggles to deliver as it is is based on hope and dreams. I’m not trying to be facetious, but the most recent example of trying to do this has not got off to the most auspicious of starts... "it's impossible to answer such an ambiguous question. can you possibly make your question more succinct. | |||
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"I appreciate you trying to answer my question. But could I point out that your answer is not dissimilar to Nigel Farages or Boris Johnson. It sounds appealing, but actually struggles to deliver as it is is based on hope and dreams. I’m not trying to be facetious, but the most recent example of trying to do this has not got off to the most auspicious of starts...
it's impossible to answer such an ambiguous question. can you possibly make your question more succinct. "How is Wexit not going to be like Brexit? | |||
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"I appreciate you trying to answer my question. But could I point out that your answer is not dissimilar to Nigel Farages or Boris Johnson. It sounds appealing, but actually struggles to deliver as it is is based on hope and dreams. I’m not trying to be facetious, but the most recent example of trying to do this has not got off to the most auspicious of starts...
it's impossible to answer such an ambiguous question. can you possibly make your question more succinct.
How is Wexit not going to be like Brexit? "Wexit won't be partly based on racism. | |||
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"With regards to roads i am out and about on them 5-6 days a week for work traveling upto 250 miles a day all over south wales the road are in a terrible state some have mini crators not pot holes. And as for public transport yes in principle it is a good idea but where as i can get to work in 15/20 mins by car it would take me 2hr15mins by bus. And there are no trains so add that to 9.5hrs driving in work that would make add more time out of the house when everyone says we should be working less and spending more quality time with family. And no i cannot work from home and neither can the customers to delivery too. As for education this assembly government are ruining the standard of our schools with budget cut after budget cut. And don t get me started on the NHS. There are numerous reports carried out for the assembly at cost that no one knows and they all say the same thing we do not have enough specialist beds, doctors, nurses and specialist treatment centres for our population but the assembly does nothing. Give the assembly members a 5 year pay freeze and see how many quit or take a golden handshake and retire " Yes education and health are devolved but the overall pot from which they are funded is not. The Welsh government can not borrow to invest, unlike every independent country in the world. Going off on a slight tangent...Ireland's economy was half the size of Wales'. Now it's 4 times the size. Would that have happened if Ireland was part of the UK? | |||
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"I appreciate you trying to answer my question. But could I point out that your answer is not dissimilar to Nigel Farages or Boris Johnson. It sounds appealing, but actually struggles to deliver as it is is based on hope and dreams. I’m not trying to be facetious, but the most recent example of trying to do this has not got off to the most auspicious of starts...
it's impossible to answer such an ambiguous question. can you possibly make your question more succinct.
How is Wexit not going to be like Brexit?
Wexit won't be partly based on racism. "This is the problem. We do not have a clear unambiguous manifesto that explains what Wales should be. It needs to be honest about what Wales can’t be, be truthful about the challenges we will face, the hardships we will endure & identify the leadership and governance we will instal. Will we have a Constitution, an armed forces, a foreign policy, etc. Many years ago the Grauniad (Guardian) did an April Fool on the ‘Island of San Serife’, it was a pull out from the old paper, but it made up a mythical country. It defined who the country was. I struggle to see something similar for Wales - and I don’t want an April Fools version. I’d like to see what Wales (North, Mid, West, South & Borders) actually want, especially when measured against the cost of having it. I’m not against Wexit, but I can see the complexity of it and the hardships it will impose. | |||
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"I appreciate you trying to answer my question. But could I point out that your answer is not dissimilar to Nigel Farages or Boris Johnson. It sounds appealing, but actually struggles to deliver as it is is based on hope and dreams. I’m not trying to be facetious, but the most recent example of trying to do this has not got off to the most auspicious of starts...
it's impossible to answer such an ambiguous question. can you possibly make your question more succinct.
How is Wexit not going to be like Brexit?
Wexit won't be partly based on racism.
This is the problem. We do not have a clear unambiguous manifesto that explains what Wales should be. It needs to be honest about what Wales can’t be, be truthful about the challenges we will face, the hardships we will endure & identify the leadership and governance we will instal. Will we have a Constitution, an armed forces, a foreign policy, etc. Many years ago the Grauniad (Guardian) did an April Fool on the ‘Island of San Serife’, it was a pull out from the old paper, but it made up a mythical country. It defined who the country was. I struggle to see something similar for Wales - and I don’t want an April Fools version. I’d like to see what Wales (North, Mid, West, South & Borders) actually want, especially when measured against the cost of having it. I’m not against Wexit, but I can see the complexity of it and the hardships it will impose."100% agree that it will be challenging but I don't believe that anything worth doing isn't a challenge. At the moment we only have one real party who are for independence and they have policies. We have a disconnect then between those who want independence but traditionally support unionist parties. At some point Labour in particular will have to fully show their hand about devolution/federalism/independence. | |||
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"& of course, Swingers Club policy!!! "Currency Language TV & Radio Immigration The more you look at it, the more you realise this is hard! Clearly, you could say we will just do what we were doing, but with a Welsh accent! The problem then is, when does that change to become the real thing? As I said, I am not against it, but I know how hard it will be. It is only right that everyone in Wales knows how hard it will be... The romance of this has great cadence, but the reality is way more than a hard slog  | |||
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"Lucky for all people, these things are decided in a quiet voting booth. Where each person has one say." Looking forward to it, whenever it may be | |||
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"I honestly can t see it happening. There is no one in wales strong enough for the job of leading and no one realy wants the job. Its alll talk by certain AM's and MP's to get votes. If it happens in my lifetime i d be very shocked also be living abroad before it happens as id have been retired for a long time." I think it will happen in mine | |||
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" Currency Language TV & Radio Immigration The more you look at it, the more you realise this is hard! Clearly, you could say we will just do what we were doing, but with a Welsh accent! The problem then is, when does that change to become the real thing? As I said, I am not against it, but I know how hard it will be. It is only right that everyone in Wales knows how hard it will be... The romance of this has great cadence, but the reality is way more than a hard slog "hi, if you take some time to read the several journals and publications mentioned toward the top of the thread you will find that there are lots of in depth articles with references to research which detail answers to most of the questions you ask. the articles are neither definitive nor are they absolute but they do indicate that the old arguments trotted out against independence are groundless and based on supposition. | |||
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" Currency Language TV & Radio Immigration The more you look at it, the more you realise this is hard! Clearly, you could say we will just do what we were doing, but with a Welsh accent! The problem then is, when does that change to become the real thing? As I said, I am not against it, but I know how hard it will be. It is only right that everyone in Wales knows how hard it will be... The romance of this has great cadence, but the reality is way more than a hard slog
hi, if you take some time to read the several journals and publications mentioned toward the top of the thread you will find that there are lots of in depth articles with references to research which detail answers to most of the questions you ask. the articles are neither definitive nor are they absolute but they do indicate that the old arguments trotted out against independence are groundless and based on supposition. "Ok, I have looked at the articles and websites you suggested. My initial response is - lacking in detail. The Independence movement needs to do some real number crunching and show what the country will look like. Simply saying we wouldn’t pay for Trident is trite. I outlined a whole list of things that need consideration and their are many, many more. As we have seen from Brexit, the Devil is in the detail. Do this right and people will buy into it. Just appealing to romantic notions of Welshness is not the way to run a country. | |||
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"again, there is highly detailed and referenced articles in the journals mentioned if you chose to read them. " Ok, must be me missing it. What is the reference for me to find it? | |||
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"I honestly can t see it happening. There is no one in wales strong enough for the job of leading and no one realy wants the job. Its alll talk by certain AM's and MP's to get votes. If it happens in my lifetime i d be very shocked also be living abroad before it happens as id have been retired for a long time." Christ this is sad. Wales doesn't have the potential to have a strong political leader, so we have to have whoever England chooses? As has happened for decades. Most of the points I would make have already been covered - look up the likes of Independence in Your Pocket for ideas of what a Free Wales *could* look like. Part of the issue is that we don't need absolutely everything to be clearly defined for it to be a good idea, one of the reasons for independence is that whatever we decided after it will be up to the people of Wales, not foisted upon us by other countries that at best don't have Wales' interests at heart & at worst show contempt for it. It'll happen eventually & it'll get a big boost when Scotland leave & if/when there's a united Ireland. Hopefully it'll be in my lifetime. | |||
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"I honestly don t see scotland getting independance for the same reason as wales they can not afford it and as for all the talk about joining the eu have they realised the annual membership fees and the fact that they'd need to produce new passports creat a scotish currency or take on the euro have a brand new scotish customs set up, Fund their own military and civil service and a lot more. As much as i would love more independance for wales our best place currently is being part of thd Uk. Can you imagine any of those numptys in the assembly running the country fully just look at the balls up they ve made so far covid vaccine held back to keep vaccinators busy businesses still waiting for their first covud grants millions paid to businesses we closed or moved after their funding ran out a money pit tin shed in cardiff they call and international airport transport companys setting up in bristol due to no major road developements and north wales feeling like the poor relative in the room hoping to be noticed. Things would be even worse. In my opinion get rid of the assembly and the cliques that have formed there and then let the peope decide how wales can have independance and the best ways to get it. " Scotland will be independent it's just a matter of time. What happens to Wales then? As for a country not being able to afford being independent, why does this only apply to Wales? The UK runs a massive deficit and debt. Just as any independent country can. Why is this a barrier for Wales & Wales alone? Getting rid of the Senedd is a ridiculous idea & would just make us West England. Why wouldn't we have one? The people have decided, twice, that devolution is what the people of Wales wanted. The politicians in Cardiff Bay aren't perfect but they're democratically elected. Compared to Westminster the Senedd looks absolutely brilliant. It's pretty hard to judge the impact of the Welsh government when they've got one hand tied behind their back. | |||
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"I honestly don t see scotland getting independance for the same reason as wales they can not afford it and as for all the talk about joining the eu have they realised the annual membership fees and the fact that they'd need to produce new passports creat a scotish currency or take on the euro have a brand new scotish customs set up, Fund their own military and civil service and a lot more. As much as i would love more independance for wales our best place currently is being part of thd Uk. Can you imagine any of those numptys in the assembly running the country fully just look at the balls up they ve made so far covid vaccine held back to keep vaccinators busy businesses still waiting for their first covud grants millions paid to businesses we closed or moved after their funding ran out a money pit tin shed in cardiff they call and international airport transport companys setting up in bristol due to no major road developements and north wales feeling like the poor relative in the room hoping to be noticed. Things would be even worse. In my opinion get rid of the assembly and the cliques that have formed there and then let the peope decide how wales can have independance and the best ways to get it. Scotland will be independent it's just a matter of time. What happens to Wales then? As for a country not being able to afford being independent, why does this only apply to Wales? The UK runs a massive deficit and debt. Just as any independent country can. Why is this a barrier for Wales & Wales alone? Getting rid of the Senedd is a ridiculous idea & would just make us West England. Why wouldn't we have one? The people have decided, twice, that devolution is what the people of Wales wanted. The politicians in Cardiff Bay aren't perfect but they're democratically elected. Compared to Westminster the Senedd looks absolutely brilliant. It's pretty hard to judge the impact of the Welsh government when they've got one hand tied behind their back. " By 'the people' you mean that only just over half of the one third of eligible people that bothered to vote for the Welsh Assembly. Essentially 5/6 people at the time didn't want it or didn't care. | |||
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"again, there is highly detailed and referenced articles in the journals mentioned if you chose to read them. Ok, must be me missing it. What is the reference for me to find it? "...bump | |||
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"I honestly don t see scotland getting independance for the same reason as wales they can not afford it and as for all the talk about joining the eu have they realised the annual membership fees and the fact that they'd need to produce new passports creat a scotish currency or take on the euro have a brand new scotish customs set up, Fund their own military and civil service and a lot more. As much as i would love more independance for wales our best place currently is being part of thd Uk. Can you imagine any of those numptys in the assembly running the country fully just look at the balls up they ve made so far covid vaccine held back to keep vaccinators busy businesses still waiting for their first covud grants millions paid to businesses we closed or moved after their funding ran out a money pit tin shed in cardiff they call and international airport transport companys setting up in bristol due to no major road developements and north wales feeling like the poor relative in the room hoping to be noticed. Things would be even worse. In my opinion get rid of the assembly and the cliques that have formed there and then let the peope decide how wales can have independance and the best ways to get it. Scotland will be independent it's just a matter of time. What happens to Wales then? As for a country not being able to afford being independent, why does this only apply to Wales? The UK runs a massive deficit and debt. Just as any independent country can. Why is this a barrier for Wales & Wales alone? Getting rid of the Senedd is a ridiculous idea & would just make us West England. Why wouldn't we have one? The people have decided, twice, that devolution is what the people of Wales wanted. The politicians in Cardiff Bay aren't perfect but they're democratically elected. Compared to Westminster the Senedd looks absolutely brilliant. It's pretty hard to judge the impact of the Welsh government when they've got one hand tied behind their back. By 'the people' you mean that only just over half of the one third of eligible people that bothered to vote for the Welsh Assembly. Essentially 5/6 people at the time didn't want it or didn't care. " That's quite the assumption in your last sentence. | |||
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"again, there is highly detailed and referenced articles in the journals mentioned if you chose to read them. Ok, must be me missing it. What is the reference for me to find it?
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"I honestly can t see it happening. There is no one in wales strong enough for the job of leading and no one realy wants the job. Its alll talk by certain AM's and MP's to get votes. If it happens in my lifetime i d be very shocked also be living abroad before it happens as id have been retired for a long time. Christ this is sad. Wales doesn't have the potential to have a strong political leader, so we have to have whoever England chooses? As has happened for decades. Most of the points I would make have already been covered - look up the likes of Independence in Your Pocket for ideas of what a Free Wales *could* look like. Part of the issue is that we don't need absolutely everything to be clearly defined for it to be a good idea, one of the reasons for independence is that whatever we decided after it will be up to the people of Wales, not foisted upon us by other countries that at best don't have Wales' interests at heart & at worst show contempt for it. It'll happen eventually & it'll get a big boost when Scotland leave & if/when there's a united Ireland. Hopefully it'll be in my lifetime. " . It will | |||
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"again, there is highly detailed and referenced articles in the journals mentioned if you chose to read them. Ok, must be me missing it. What is the reference for me to find it?
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"again, there is highly detailed and referenced articles in the journals mentioned if you chose to read them. Ok, must be me missing it. What is the reference for me to find it?
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"Resounding yes from me... I've studied the economics in detail and its madness what we currently endure. England's relationship with Wales is Toxic and abusive" Bangor aye | |||
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