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Not just about the virus!
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"My caffeineated observations Issue 1: People judge decisions by their outcome not by the facts at the time. Issue 2: no one knows what alternative futures would have liked like. Suppose I offered a toin Coss water. You pay me a dollar, and if it's heads you win a thousand dollars, tails you lose your stake. Unless you can't afford to lose a dollar, that's a great bet to take. You aren't wrong if it's a tails and you lose. Anyone who "told us so" that we shouldn't take the bet isnt right. Just lucky. " And that's kinda the point isn't it? Hindsight is 20/20 is a wonderful saying. The fact that people are safe and healthy enough to make some of the outlandish claims I see daily is a testament to how things were dealt with. I'm not saying everything was amazing and perfect. People made mistakes, and people made selfish or profitable decisions. I think it would have been worse if nothing was done. | |||
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"My caffeineated observations Issue 1: People judge decisions by their outcome not by the facts at the time. Issue 2: no one knows what alternative futures would have liked like. Suppose I offered a toin Coss water. You pay me a dollar, and if it's heads you win a thousand dollars, tails you lose your stake. Unless you can't afford to lose a dollar, that's a great bet to take. You aren't wrong if it's a tails and you lose. Anyone who "told us so" that we shouldn't take the bet isnt right. Just lucky. And that's kinda the point isn't it? Hindsight is 20/20 is a wonderful saying. The fact that people are safe and healthy enough to make some of the outlandish claims I see daily is a testament to how things were dealt with. I'm not saying everything was amazing and perfect. People made mistakes, and people made selfish or profitable decisions. I think it would have been worse if nothing was done." oh yeah, I'm agreeing. | |||
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"I see a direct parallel between the pandemic and the millennium bug. A lot of people worked very hard, largely behind the scenes, to avert disaster. Because the disaster wasn't as bad as it could have been, there are now people saying it was never a problem at all. " Agreed. | |||
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"If we don't look back with a critical eye, then we are doomed to repeat those same mistakes that were made next time around." Not to say we forget all about it and move on. But. There needs to be a bit of perspective about what is worth digging in to and what should be accepted as right at the time. | |||
"If we don't look back with a critical eye, then we are doomed to repeat those same mistakes that were made next time around. Not to say we forget all about it and move on. But. There needs to be a bit of perspective about what is worth digging in to and what should be accepted as right at the time. " I personally believe a government that locked down its citizens whilst blatantly flaunting those very same restrictions, deserves ever single aspect of its decisions looked into. They lost the right to the benefit of the doubt when they started having parties whilst relatives couldn't even visit dying family members or attend funerals. | |||
"I see a direct parallel between the pandemic and the millennium bug. A lot of people worked very hard, largely behind the scenes, to avert disaster. Because the disaster wasn't as bad as it could have been, there are now people saying it was never a problem at all. " This. ^^^^^ Winston | |||
"If we don't look back with a critical eye, then we are doomed to repeat those same mistakes that were made next time around. Not to say we forget all about it and move on. But. There needs to be a bit of perspective about what is worth digging in to and what should be accepted as right at the time. I personally believe a government that locked down its citizens whilst blatantly flaunting those very same restrictions, deserves ever single aspect of its decisions looked into. They lost the right to the benefit of the doubt when they started having parties whilst relatives couldn't even visit dying family members or attend funerals. " Would you support a punishment for those people, if proven to have broken lock down rules? | |||
"If we don't look back with a critical eye, then we are doomed to repeat those same mistakes that were made next time around. Not to say we forget all about it and move on. But. There needs to be a bit of perspective about what is worth digging in to and what should be accepted as right at the time. I personally believe a government that locked down its citizens whilst blatantly flaunting those very same restrictions, deserves ever single aspect of its decisions looked into. They lost the right to the benefit of the doubt when they started having parties whilst relatives couldn't even visit dying family members or attend funerals. " Those examples are morally reprehensible, but it doesn't change the fact that the lockdown rules and guidance made a positive difference. I'd suggest there were 10s or 100s of thousands of people who broke lockdown rules in similar ways. They put themselves and others at risk and the outcomes should have been the same for all. The only things that would change that going forward are to change how we elect out leaders or the criteria they have to meet to be electable. It's not this government, it's politics generally. | |||
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"If we don't look back with a critical eye, then we are doomed to repeat those same mistakes that were made next time around. Not to say we forget all about it and move on. But. There needs to be a bit of perspective about what is worth digging in to and what should be accepted as right at the time. "  | |||
"I agree that there might be more to it, than it seems to be, there seems to be an element of control already planned ahead to be used in different stages." Maybe that’s just because someone had foresight to war-game pandemic scenarios and develop a range of options in advance of the real thing…. I’m not sure I saw all that much organised control though, more like half panicked fire fighting  | |||
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"If we don't look back with a critical eye, then we are doomed to repeat those same mistakes that were made next time around. Not to say we forget all about it and move on. But. There needs to be a bit of perspective about what is worth digging in to and what should be accepted as right at the time. I personally believe a government that locked down its citizens whilst blatantly flaunting those very same restrictions, deserves ever single aspect of its decisions looked into. They lost the right to the benefit of the doubt when they started having parties whilst relatives couldn't even visit dying family members or attend funerals. Those examples are morally reprehensible, but it doesn't change the fact that the lockdown rules and guidance made a positive difference. I'd suggest there were 10s or 100s of thousands of people who broke lockdown rules in similar ways. They put themselves and others at risk and the outcomes should have been the same for all. The only things that would change that going forward are to change how we elect out leaders or the criteria they have to meet to be electable. It's not this government, it's politics generally. " On a national level? Maybe. On a personal level, those same restrictions have devastated at least 5 families that I personally know of. Businesses lost, family members dead to suicide and marriages ruined. Those restrictions caused more damage to those peoples lives than covid. As for punishment, That won't happen. It's one rule for the ruling class and another for the plebs. | |||
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"My brother’s girlfriend is now disabled since a few days after receiving her first dose of so called vaccine and having an aneurysm. R.I.P. to the 2,362 people dead after the same injection and wishing a speedy recovery to any other people who have had adverse reactions from it (1,544,930 people in UK reported to yellow card report not being shown in mass media). Search Tara Jane Keatley on IMDB website she’s the low budget not very well known actress that was coughing on telly with this thing saying how bad it was… they deserve to get locked up for this charade. Georgia guidestones we’re obviously put up by masons and they said they want to keep the population under 5billion…" Ahhh, the "miss-interpretation of yellow card reporting" thing. Have a look at the 1,544,930 reports. I'm not wholly convinced by the several people who've reported their own deaths, the chap whose head exploded, or the one whose leg fell off, or the bloke who turned into an owl are genuine adverse reactions, but I'm sure people much more cleverest than me can interpret the data factually. The Masons being involved is a new twist though.
Winston | |||
"My brother’s girlfriend is now disabled since a few days after receiving her first dose of so called vaccine and having an aneurysm. R.I.P. to the 2,362 people dead after the same injection and wishing a speedy recovery to any other people who have had adverse reactions from it (1,544,930 people in UK reported to yellow card report not being shown in mass media). Search Tara Jane Keatley on IMDB website she’s the low budget not very well known actress that was coughing on telly with this thing saying how bad it was… they deserve to get locked up for this charade. Georgia guidestones we’re obviously put up by masons and they said they want to keep the population under 5billion…" 0.5 billion | |||
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"My brother’s girlfriend is now disabled since a few days after receiving her first dose of so called vaccine and having an aneurysm. R.I.P. to the 2,362 people dead after the same injection and wishing a speedy recovery to any other people who have had adverse reactions from it (1,544,930 people in UK reported to yellow card report not being shown in mass media). Search Tara Jane Keatley on IMDB website she’s the low budget not very well known actress that was coughing on telly with this thing saying how bad it was… they deserve to get locked up for this charade. Georgia guidestones we’re obviously put up by masons and they said they want to keep the population under 5billion…" If it becomes proven that Covid19 was a global conspiracy (for a One world Gov) then all guilty conspirators should face capital punishment. Traitors and treasoners that did this to us don't deserve light justice. There needs to be a serious deterrent. If not, they will keep at this, for sure. | |||
" If it becomes proven that Covid19 was a global conspiracy (for a One world Gov) then all guilty conspirators should face capital punishment. Traitors and treasoners that did this to us don't deserve light justice. There needs to be a serious deterrent. If not, they will keep at this, for sure. " It is sad when we diaappear down that rabbit hole... We won't ever get proof of such a Mason /Illuminati / One Gov /Big Pharma /Bill Gates cospiracy because: A. It isn't true. or B. They bury the truth to stop us finding out. The lack of evidence being cited as evidence of a cover up at the highest level. I've seen some of the conspiracies and I do wonder how people can believe the improbable yet deny the possible! | |||
"My brother’s girlfriend is now disabled since a few days after receiving her first dose of so called vaccine and having an aneurysm. R.I.P. to the 2,362 people dead after the same injection and wishing a speedy recovery to any other people who have had adverse reactions from it (1,544,930 people in UK reported to yellow card report not being shown in mass media). Search Tara Jane Keatley on IMDB website she’s the low budget not very well known actress that was coughing on telly with this thing saying how bad it was… they deserve to get locked up for this charade. Georgia guidestones we’re obviously put up by masons and they said they want to keep the population under 5billion… If it becomes proven that Covid19 was a global conspiracy (for a One world Gov) then all guilty conspirators should face capital punishment. Traitors and treasoners that did this to us don't deserve light justice. There needs to be a serious deterrent. If not, they will keep at this, for sure. " If anyone seriously believes the governments in power, plus the opposing parties of 165 countries conspired together for some sort of global conspiracy, I'd suggest they need their bumps felt. Not a chance in Hell it happened. Try spending a week in a project management team of 6 and tell me it's a global conspiracy. It's a farcical fantasy. Winston | |||
"This started a a post in another thread, and it got me thinking...... 'I think it's great that we're now in a position of relative safety to say 'I wish I did', or 'I wish I didn't'. Go back 3 years. Before a vaccine program, when people were dying every day from something we'd never seen before. Does it seem likely that we'd all be in a better situation if those measures weren't put in place at all? It's not a perfect parallel, but if you're hit by a car and taken to hospital, they don't ask you if you want life saving surgery. They just try to save your life, using the tools and knowledge they have available at the time. In a year, what they try may be totally different, based on what is known at that time. I'd guess that a lot of the people now shouting about what went wrong, what should have been better, what we shouldn't have done would also be the first to complain about nothing being done at the time'. It's genuinely got my foggy, caffeine deprived cogs turning. We love in a society of unparalleled freedoms and privilege. Access to free health care and education, support for people who are sick or unable to work. Sometimes it's good to take a moment to reflect on how lucky we are, rather than looking for a reason to complain. Now's a good time for a coffee "Google Exercise Alice- it took place in 2016 by the government simulating a Coronavirus outbreak- including 12 recommendations re test and trace/ PPE/ isolation. The report has been published. This will become the most damning piece of evidence against the government in any subsequent inquiry- the knew exactly what they should have done and none of this’ we have never seen the likes of it before ‘ narrative. They made a complete balls of it. | |||
"My brother’s girlfriend is now disabled since a few days after receiving her first dose of so called vaccine and having an aneurysm. R.I.P. to the 2,362 people dead after the same injection and wishing a speedy recovery to any other people who have had adverse reactions from it (1,544,930 people in UK reported to yellow card report not being shown in mass media). Search Tara Jane Keatley on IMDB website she’s the low budget not very well known actress that was coughing on telly with this thing saying how bad it was… they deserve to get locked up for this charade. Georgia guidestones we’re obviously put up by masons and they said they want to keep the population under 5billion… If it becomes proven that Covid19 was a global conspiracy (for a One world Gov) then all guilty conspirators should face capital punishment. Traitors and treasoners that did this to us don't deserve light justice. There needs to be a serious deterrent. If not, they will keep at this, for sure. " How did they get away with it? The logistics boggle the mind. Unless... Was it the lizard people in cahoots with the flat Eearthers? All funded by Bill Gates too?! | |||
"My brother’s girlfriend is now disabled since a few days after receiving her first dose of so called vaccine and having an aneurysm. R.I.P. to the 2,362 people dead after the same injection and wishing a speedy recovery to any other people who have had adverse reactions from it (1,544,930 people in UK reported to yellow card report not being shown in mass media). Search Tara Jane Keatley on IMDB website she’s the low budget not very well known actress that was coughing on telly with this thing saying how bad it was… they deserve to get locked up for this charade. Georgia guidestones we’re obviously put up by masons and they said they want to keep the population under 5billion… If it becomes proven that Covid19 was a global conspiracy (for a One world Gov) then all guilty conspirators should face capital punishment. Traitors and treasoners that did this to us don't deserve light justice. There needs to be a serious deterrent. If not, they will keep at this, for sure. How did they get away with it? The logistics boggle the mind. Unless... Was it the lizard people in cahoots with the flat Eearthers? All funded by Bill Gates too?!" Given how long it would have taken in pre-planning by the 165 governments, plus their opposition before the great conspiracy was put into play, I'm genuinely confused as to why no-ones blabber yet. Literally tens of thousands of people, all agreeing and all keeping quiet. It's just nonsense. Winston | |||
"My brother’s girlfriend is now disabled since a few days after receiving her first dose of so called vaccine and having an aneurysm. R.I.P. to the 2,362 people dead after the same injection and wishing a speedy recovery to any other people who have had adverse reactions from it (1,544,930 people in UK reported to yellow card report not being shown in mass media). Search Tara Jane Keatley on IMDB website she’s the low budget not very well known actress that was coughing on telly with this thing saying how bad it was… they deserve to get locked up for this charade. Georgia guidestones we’re obviously put up by masons and they said they want to keep the population under 5billion… If it becomes proven that Covid19 was a global conspiracy (for a One world Gov) then all guilty conspirators should face capital punishment. Traitors and treasoners that did this to us don't deserve light justice. There needs to be a serious deterrent. If not, they will keep at this, for sure. How did they get away with it? The logistics boggle the mind. Unless... Was it the lizard people in cahoots with the flat Eearthers? All funded by Bill Gates too?! Given how long it would have taken in pre-planning by the 165 governments, plus their opposition before the great conspiracy was put into play, I'm genuinely confused as to why no-ones blabber yet. Literally tens of thousands of people, all agreeing and all keeping quiet. It's just nonsense. Winston OR they all had a super secret pinky swear! Bet ya didn't think of that. Checkmate! " | |||
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"My brother’s girlfriend is now disabled since a few days after receiving her first dose of so called vaccine and having an aneurysm. R.I.P. to the 2,362 people dead after the same injection and wishing a speedy recovery to any other people who have had adverse reactions from it (1,544,930 people in UK reported to yellow card report not being shown in mass media). Search Tara Jane Keatley on IMDB website she’s the low budget not very well known actress that was coughing on telly with this thing saying how bad it was… they deserve to get locked up for this charade. Georgia guidestones we’re obviously put up by masons and they said they want to keep the population under 5billion… If it becomes proven that Covid19 was a global conspiracy (for a One world Gov) then all guilty conspirators should face capital punishment. Traitors and treasoners that did this to us don't deserve light justice. There needs to be a serious deterrent. If not, they will keep at this, for sure. " Suppose it were to be proven that people profited from anti public health messaging, fear mongering from vaccines, etc, knowing it to be false. Should those people be executed for the harm they've done? Like crimes should be treated alike, after all. | |||
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"My brother’s girlfriend is now disabled since a few days after receiving her first dose of so called vaccine and having an aneurysm. R.I.P. to the 2,362 people dead after the same injection and wishing a speedy recovery to any other people who have had adverse reactions from it (1,544,930 people in UK reported to yellow card report not being shown in mass media). Search Tara Jane Keatley on IMDB website she’s the low budget not very well known actress that was coughing on telly with this thing saying how bad it was… they deserve to get locked up for this charade. Georgia guidestones we’re obviously put up by masons and they said they want to keep the population under 5billion… If it becomes proven that Covid19 was a global conspiracy (for a One world Gov) then all guilty conspirators should face capital punishment. Traitors and treasoners that did this to us don't deserve light justice. There needs to be a serious deterrent. If not, they will keep at this, for sure. Suppose it were to be proven that people profited from anti public health messaging, fear mongering from vaccines, etc, knowing it to be false. Should those people be executed for the harm they've done? Like crimes should be treated alike, after all. " Yes, but only if we also execute every single mp who has profited from ppe contracts or handing out "jobs for the boys". Can't condemn anyone else from making a quick buck when we have tolerated it for years from our supposed leaders. Not just from covid or public health related issues either. Every single proxy war we have been involved in and the amount of money that is involved in those weapons contracts. Someone making a few quid from youtube pales in comparison. | |||
"This started a a post in another thread, and it got me thinking...... 'I think it's great that we're now in a position of relative safety to say 'I wish I did', or 'I wish I didn't'. Go back 3 years. Before a vaccine program, when people were dying every day from something we'd never seen before. Does it seem likely that we'd all be in a better situation if those measures weren't put in place at all? It's not a perfect parallel, but if you're hit by a car and taken to hospital, they don't ask you if you want life saving surgery. They just try to save your life, using the tools and knowledge they have available at the time. In a year, what they try may be totally different, based on what is known at that time. I'd guess that a lot of the people now shouting about what went wrong, what should have been better, what we shouldn't have done would also be the first to complain about nothing being done at the time'. It's genuinely got my foggy, caffeine deprived cogs turning. We love in a society of unparalleled freedoms and privilege. Access to free health care and education, support for people who are sick or unable to work. Sometimes it's good to take a moment to reflect on how lucky we are, rather than looking for a reason to complain. Now's a good time for a coffee
Google Exercise Alice- it took place in 2016 by the government simulating a Coronavirus outbreak- including 12 recommendations re test and trace/ PPE/ isolation.
The report has been published.
This will become the most damning piece of evidence against the government in any subsequent inquiry- the knew exactly what they should have done and none of this’ we have never seen the likes of it before ‘ narrative.
They made a complete balls of it. "It's clear from your post that you haven't actually read the report, the situation it was conducted in or the results from it. FFS  | |||
"This started a a post in another thread, and it got me thinking...... 'I think it's great that we're now in a position of relative safety to say 'I wish I did', or 'I wish I didn't'. Go back 3 years. Before a vaccine program, when people were dying every day from something we'd never seen before. Does it seem likely that we'd all be in a better situation if those measures weren't put in place at all? It's not a perfect parallel, but if you're hit by a car and taken to hospital, they don't ask you if you want life saving surgery. They just try to save your life, using the tools and knowledge they have available at the time. In a year, what they try may be totally different, based on what is known at that time. I'd guess that a lot of the people now shouting about what went wrong, what should have been better, what we shouldn't have done would also be the first to complain about nothing being done at the time'. It's genuinely got my foggy, caffeine deprived cogs turning. We love in a society of unparalleled freedoms and privilege. Access to free health care and education, support for people who are sick or unable to work. Sometimes it's good to take a moment to reflect on how lucky we are, rather than looking for a reason to complain. Now's a good time for a coffee
Google Exercise Alice- it took place in 2016 by the government simulating a Coronavirus outbreak- including 12 recommendations re test and trace/ PPE/ isolation.
The report has been published.
This will become the most damning piece of evidence against the government in any subsequent inquiry- the knew exactly what they should have done and none of this’ we have never seen the likes of it before ‘ narrative.
They made a complete balls of it.
It's clear from your post that you haven't actually read the report, the situation it was conducted in or the results from it.
FFS "It would be great if you could please elaborate on this why you think this especially regarding the ‘situation it was conducted in’ - plenty of medics and publications, including the BMJ have quoted this in the light of the poor response to the pandemic as it already highlighted issues with regard to lack of PPE equipment and poor test and trace capacity. Part of this report was redacted and has yet to be published. To be honest we are really not prepared for a pathogen X with much higher mortality than Covid. The number of hot zones( ie risk regions for zoonotic spillover) has grown exponentially over the past 20 years through human development/ deforestation/ lost of habitat and climate change and we will face something along the lines of a Nipah( cf Contagion the film)Hendra/ Ebola/ Spanish flu like outbreak in the next 20 years where a mortality rate of 10% is more likely a minimum. We will have not choice but to act very rapidly. | |||
"My brother’s girlfriend is now disabled since a few days after receiving her first dose of so called vaccine and having an aneurysm. R.I.P. to the 2,362 people dead after the same injection and wishing a speedy recovery to any other people who have had adverse reactions from it (1,544,930 people in UK reported to yellow card report not being shown in mass media). Search Tara Jane Keatley on IMDB website she’s the low budget not very well known actress that was coughing on telly with this thing saying how bad it was… they deserve to get locked up for this charade. Georgia guidestones we’re obviously put up by masons and they said they want to keep the population under 5billion… If it becomes proven that Covid19 was a global conspiracy (for a One world Gov) then all guilty conspirators should face capital punishment. Traitors and treasoners that did this to us don't deserve light justice. There needs to be a serious deterrent. If not, they will keep at this, for sure. Suppose it were to be proven that people profited from anti public health messaging, fear mongering from vaccines, etc, knowing it to be false. Should those people be executed for the harm they've done? Like crimes should be treated alike, after all. Yes, but only if we also execute every single mp who has profited from ppe contracts or handing out "jobs for the boys". Can't condemn anyone else from making a quick buck when we have tolerated it for years from our supposed leaders. Not just from covid or public health related issues either. Every single proxy war we have been involved in and the amount of money that is involved in those weapons contracts. Someone making a few quid from youtube pales in comparison." That's not treating like crimes alike. Corruption is not the same crime as weaponised misinformation (which is not a known crime, but for the purposes of this exercise). I think the powers that be should be held to account for conduct and misdeeds, Covid related and otherwise. But that isn't what I'm asking. If someone believes that lying about the nature of the pandemic and gaining advantage from it should result in execution, then that should be the case whether it's Big Pharma or Big Vaccines Are Icky And Masks Take Away Our Freedom. So. If by appropriate standards of evidence it's found that either side are lying to the degree proposed, is it appropriate to execute anyone - no matter what side they're on - for engaging in such behaviour? | |||
"My brother’s girlfriend is now disabled since a few days after receiving her first dose of so called vaccine and having an aneurysm. R.I.P. to the 2,362 people dead after the same injection and wishing a speedy recovery to any other people who have had adverse reactions from it (1,544,930 people in UK reported to yellow card report not being shown in mass media). Search Tara Jane Keatley on IMDB website she’s the low budget not very well known actress that was coughing on telly with this thing saying how bad it was… they deserve to get locked up for this charade. Georgia guidestones we’re obviously put up by masons and they said they want to keep the population under 5billion… If it becomes proven that Covid19 was a global conspiracy (for a One world Gov) then all guilty conspirators should face capital punishment. Traitors and treasoners that did this to us don't deserve light justice. There needs to be a serious deterrent. If not, they will keep at this, for sure. Suppose it were to be proven that people profited from anti public health messaging, fear mongering from vaccines, etc, knowing it to be false. Should those people be executed for the harm they've done? Like crimes should be treated alike, after all. Yes, but only if we also execute every single mp who has profited from ppe contracts or handing out "jobs for the boys". Can't condemn anyone else from making a quick buck when we have tolerated it for years from our supposed leaders. Not just from covid or public health related issues either. Every single proxy war we have been involved in and the amount of money that is involved in those weapons contracts. Someone making a few quid from youtube pales in comparison. That's not treating like crimes alike. Corruption is not the same crime as weaponised misinformation (which is not a known crime, but for the purposes of this exercise). I think the powers that be should be held to account for conduct and misdeeds, Covid related and otherwise. But that isn't what I'm asking. If someone believes that lying about the nature of the pandemic and gaining advantage from it should result in execution, then that should be the case whether it's Big Pharma or Big Vaccines Are Icky And Masks Take Away Our Freedom. So. If by appropriate standards of evidence it's found that either side are lying to the degree proposed, is it appropriate to execute anyone - no matter what side they're on - for engaging in such behaviour?" It does make me
Big bad pharma making a profit = bad, ------- hang them at dawn
Snake oil salesman selling harmful information = good, -------- it's only a few bob from YouTube.
The double standards are ridiculous.
Winston | |||
"My brother’s girlfriend is now disabled since a few days after receiving her first dose of so called vaccine and having an aneurysm. R.I.P. to the 2,362 people dead after the same injection and wishing a speedy recovery to any other people who have had adverse reactions from it (1,544,930 people in UK reported to yellow card report not being shown in mass media). Search Tara Jane Keatley on IMDB website she’s the low budget not very well known actress that was coughing on telly with this thing saying how bad it was… they deserve to get locked up for this charade. Georgia guidestones we’re obviously put up by masons and they said they want to keep the population under 5billion… If it becomes proven that Covid19 was a global conspiracy (for a One world Gov) then all guilty conspirators should face capital punishment. Traitors and treasoners that did this to us don't deserve light justice. There needs to be a serious deterrent. If not, they will keep at this, for sure. Suppose it were to be proven that people profited from anti public health messaging, fear mongering from vaccines, etc, knowing it to be false. Should those people be executed for the harm they've done? Like crimes should be treated alike, after all. Yes, but only if we also execute every single mp who has profited from ppe contracts or handing out "jobs for the boys". Can't condemn anyone else from making a quick buck when we have tolerated it for years from our supposed leaders. Not just from covid or public health related issues either. Every single proxy war we have been involved in and the amount of money that is involved in those weapons contracts. Someone making a few quid from youtube pales in comparison. That's not treating like crimes alike. Corruption is not the same crime as weaponised misinformation (which is not a known crime, but for the purposes of this exercise). I think the powers that be should be held to account for conduct and misdeeds, Covid related and otherwise. But that isn't what I'm asking. If someone believes that lying about the nature of the pandemic and gaining advantage from it should result in execution, then that should be the case whether it's Big Pharma or Big Vaccines Are Icky And Masks Take Away Our Freedom. So. If by appropriate standards of evidence it's found that either side are lying to the degree proposed, is it appropriate to execute anyone - no matter what side they're on - for engaging in such behaviour? It does make me
Big bad pharma making a profit = bad, ------- hang them at dawn
Snake oil salesman selling harmful information = good, -------- it's only a few bob from YouTube.
The double standards are ridiculous.
Winston "Quite. If you believe Crime X should attract Penalty Y, then fairness would dictate that that happens whether Crime X is committed in pursuit of Team A or Team B. The penalty that attaches to Crime Z is also irrelevant. | |||
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"Lying to make money is lying to make money whatever spin you out on it, in my eyes. If it's government based it gets passed off as corruption. It's the exact same snake oil just on a grander scale. If we are executing people I just wanna make sure we get some of the biggest liars and con men included alongside the small frys "I'm thinking about it in terms of the rule of law. Weaponised disinformation. If the penalty is execution, that applies to all sides. Yes? (There are some enormously wealthy people in the anti vax movement. They're not all dudes in their pants with a camera phone) If you want to argue that corruption should also result in execution, then that's a separate discussion. Different offences carry penalties according to the perceived seriousness of each penalty. Conflating them is muddled thinking | |||
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"If a government lying about ppe contracts/vaccines/[add your own government approved scam here], to make money isn't classed as weaponised misinformation then nothing is. Both doing the exact same thing. Pedalling a lie to profit at the expense of others If joe bloggs in his pants was in charge it would be labelled corruption(or most likely a conspiracy theory), we'd get a minor uproar then people would forget all about it and get on with their lives. It's two cheeks of the same arse in my eyes." if they did it knowing the PPE was duff and it would put ppl at risk I'd agree. It's the knowing that makes a difference imo. | |||
"If a government lying about ppe contracts/vaccines/[add your own government approved scam here], to make money isn't classed as weaponised misinformation then nothing is. Both doing the exact same thing. Pedalling a lie to profit at the expense of others If joe bloggs in his pants was in charge it would be labelled corruption(or most likely a conspiracy theory), we'd get a minor uproar then people would forget all about it and get on with their lives. It's two cheeks of the same arse in my eyes." I think they're both wrongs that might be crimes, but I see one as a wrong of fraud and one as a wrong of public procurement and/or misdeeds in public office. I'm not saying one is more serious than another, but I don't think they're even remotely the same crime. | |||
"If a government lying about ppe contracts/vaccines/[add your own government approved scam here], to make money isn't classed as weaponised misinformation then nothing is. Both doing the exact same thing. Pedalling a lie to profit at the expense of others If joe bloggs in his pants was in charge it would be labelled corruption(or most likely a conspiracy theory), we'd get a minor uproar then people would forget all about it and get on with their lives. It's two cheeks of the same arse in my eyes. I think they're both wrongs that might be crimes, but I see one as a wrong of fraud and one as a wrong of public procurement and/or misdeeds in public office. I'm not saying one is more serious than another, but I don't think they're even remotely the same crime. " Well it's hard to compare when one of them is a fictional crime | |||
"If a government lying about ppe contracts/vaccines/[add your own government approved scam here], to make money isn't classed as weaponised misinformation then nothing is. Both doing the exact same thing. Pedalling a lie to profit at the expense of others If joe bloggs in his pants was in charge it would be labelled corruption(or most likely a conspiracy theory), we'd get a minor uproar then people would forget all about it and get on with their lives. It's two cheeks of the same arse in my eyes. I think they're both wrongs that might be crimes, but I see one as a wrong of fraud and one as a wrong of public procurement and/or misdeeds in public office. I'm not saying one is more serious than another, but I don't think they're even remotely the same crime. Well it's hard to compare when one of them is a fictional crime "But you just said they're the same. How do you think crimes are created? People think Act X is wrong. Act X is defined by people in power. A penalty or range of penalties is determined for Act X. Act X could be theft, cyber crimes when the internet is new, manipulating the Matrix after taking the red pill, or whatever. Someone said that covering up stuff re Covid should be punished by execution. I said it should go both ways. That's one Act X. (Or Act Y. Whatever) Corruption (or improper procurement of PPE or abuse of public office) is a different act. I don't think this is hard to grasp as a thought exercise. | |||
| |||
"It's nothing but wordplay. At the base of it, both are lying for profit. Have to agree to disagree, I can't spend all night debating who's on the list to get executed "Wordplay. What do you think law is but wordplay? 
I respect that you disagree, but I don't think that such broad definitions are viable in a modern legal system. | |||
"It's nothing but wordplay. At the base of it, both are lying for profit. Have to agree to disagree, I can't spend all night debating who's on the list to get executed
Wordplay. What do you think law is but wordplay?
I respect that you disagree, but I don't think that such broad definitions are viable in a modern legal system. "I don't think execution is either to be fair | |||
"It's nothing but wordplay. At the base of it, both are lying for profit. Have to agree to disagree, I can't spend all night debating who's on the list to get executed
Wordplay. What do you think law is but wordplay?
I respect that you disagree, but I don't think that such broad definitions are viable in a modern legal system. I don't think execution is either to be fair "I'm not in favour, but I was arguing for the rule of law - that like crimes be treated alike. If misinformation about Covid results in execution, that should apply to all "teams". (Or if stealing a bicycle results in £X fine, that should apply to all people who steal bicycles) | |||
| |||
"An airborne vial pandemic had indeed been gamed a few years before so the fact that stocks of PPE were totally inadequate or out of date is a scandal that noone seems to have taken responsibility ffor and we just seem to have forgotten about. Unfortunately at some point there will be another pandemic and it feels like we will just be similarly unprepared." You can have the best fight plan in the world until the first punch is thrown. Plan for 5 million sets of PPE and only 2 million are needed and Government are wasting our money yet again. Plan for 2 million sets of PPE and 5 million are needed and Government couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. Hold PPE stock for 5 years and a virus hits it year 6 when the PPE is out of date. Dispose of out of date PPE and buy new, government are wasting out money again buying stuff we never used. There's no easy/simple/right answer. Were poor decisions made? Undoubtedly. Were they right at the time? Probably. Winston | |||
"An airborne vial pandemic had indeed been gamed a few years before so the fact that stocks of PPE were totally inadequate or out of date is a scandal that noone seems to have taken responsibility ffor and we just seem to have forgotten about. Unfortunately at some point there will be another pandemic and it feels like we will just be similarly unprepared." They never was inadequate stock of PPE A close friend of mine is in the business of medical supplies and even deals with the NHS, he had a warehouse full of the stuff when it all kicked off. He was even emailing the people he deals with at the NHS to say they could have it at cost price to help out. They declined as he wasn't on the 'new approved list' But the media spin of low PPE supplies never stopped... weird that! | |||
"An airborne vial pandemic had indeed been gamed a few years before so the fact that stocks of PPE were totally inadequate or out of date is a scandal that noone seems to have taken responsibility ffor and we just seem to have forgotten about. Unfortunately at some point there will be another pandemic and it feels like we will just be similarly unprepared. You can have the best fight plan in the world until the first punch is thrown. Plan for 5 million sets of PPE and only 2 million are needed and Government are wasting our money yet again. Plan for 2 million sets of PPE and 5 million are needed and Government couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. Hold PPE stock for 5 years and a virus hits it year 6 when the PPE is out of date. Dispose of out of date PPE and buy new, government are wasting out money again buying stuff we never used. There's no easy/simple/right answer. Were poor decisions made? Undoubtedly. Were they right at the time? Probably. Winston " | |||
"This started a a post in another thread, and it got me thinking...... 'I think it's great that we're now in a position of relative safety to say 'I wish I did', or 'I wish I didn't'. Go back 3 years. Before a vaccine program, when people were dying every day from something we'd never seen before. Does it seem likely that we'd all be in a better situation if those measures weren't put in place at all? It's not a perfect parallel, but if you're hit by a car and taken to hospital, they don't ask you if you want life saving surgery. They just try to save your life, using the tools and knowledge they have available at the time. In a year, what they try may be totally different, based on what is known at that time. I'd guess that a lot of the people now shouting about what went wrong, what should have been better, what we shouldn't have done would also be the first to complain about nothing being done at the time'. It's genuinely got my foggy, caffeine deprived cogs turning. We love in a society of unparalleled freedoms and privilege. Access to free health care and education, support for people who are sick or unable to work. Sometimes it's good to take a moment to reflect on how lucky we are, rather than looking for a reason to complain. Now's a good time for a coffee
Google Exercise Alice- it took place in 2016 by the government simulating a Coronavirus outbreak- including 12 recommendations re test and trace/ PPE/ isolation.
The report has been published.
This will become the most damning piece of evidence against the government in any subsequent inquiry- the knew exactly what they should have done and none of this’ we have never seen the likes of it before ‘ narrative.
They made a complete balls of it.
It's clear from your post that you haven't actually read the report, the situation it was conducted in or the results from it.
FFS
It would be great if you could please elaborate on this why you think this especially regarding the ‘situation it was conducted in’ - plenty of medics and publications, including the BMJ have quoted this in the light of the poor response to the pandemic as it already highlighted issues with regard to lack of PPE equipment and poor test and trace capacity.
Part of this report was redacted and has yet to be published.
To be honest we are really not prepared for a pathogen X with much higher mortality than Covid. The number of hot zones( ie risk regions for zoonotic spillover) has grown exponentially over the past 20 years through human development/ deforestation/ lost of habitat and climate change and we will face something along the lines of a Nipah( cf Contagion the film)Hendra/ Ebola/ Spanish flu like outbreak in the next 20 years where a mortality rate of 10% is more likely a minimum. We will have not choice but to act very rapidly. "Exercise Alice was a 1 day tabletop simulation. Lots of people in a conference room with someone reading out a hypothetical situation and then adding additional incidents as the simulation progresses. The armed forces and certain departments of government carry these out for all types of exceptional events Inc terrorist attacks, disease outbreaks, wars and infrastructure breakdowns like power outages. The problem with a lot of the non military ones is that no one in a position of authority ever seems to be involved/aware/bothered. The continual merry go round of changing jobs/parties etc in government probably means that seeing one of the important ones of these when it will make a difference is really unlikely. | |||
"I'm not really sure of the context of the post to be honest OP? Started off with what we'd feel in hindsight? Ended up with how we feel about politicians having a bit of a knees up?... I worked within my same face-to-face work setting throughout, due to my job that was never going to change. I did the whole through windows chat/dropping supplies off for family members, because we had no realistic idea how things would go?... I don't feel mugged off, I don't feel much beyond pretty ambivalent really? It was measures put in place at that point in time? I live in a rural area and I can well recall the measurements placed during foot & mouth too. I don't think there's any great answers for any epidemics? There will always be losers, but we can all just get through events as and when they occur as best we can
"Yep, you're right. It started as a comment in another post, and really only the bottom bit is relevant! We're in the lucky position to look back and pick fault. Instead it would be good to look at how lucky we are to be where we are today. Be thankful for what we have now, and what we can have tomorrow. | |||
"Lying to make money is lying to make money whatever spin you out on it, in my eyes. If it's government based it gets passed off as corruption. It's the exact same snake oil just on a grander scale. If we are executing people I just wanna make sure we get some of the biggest liars and con men included alongside the small frys
I'm thinking about it in terms of the rule of law.
Weaponised disinformation. If the penalty is execution, that applies to all sides. Yes? (There are some enormously wealthy people in the anti vax movement. They're not all dudes in their pants with a camera phone)
If you want to argue that corruption should also result in execution, then that's a separate discussion.
Different offences carry penalties according to the perceived seriousness of each penalty. Conflating them is muddled thinking"Corruption is one crime, but high treason is another. Have a look into high treason under Common Law. The penalty is? | |||
"This started a a post in another thread, and it got me thinking...... 'I think it's great that we're now in a position of relative safety to say 'I wish I did', or 'I wish I didn't'. Go back 3 years. Before a vaccine program, when people were dying every day from something we'd never seen before. Does it seem likely that we'd all be in a better situation if those measures weren't put in place at all? It's not a perfect parallel, but if you're hit by a car and taken to hospital, they don't ask you if you want life saving surgery. They just try to save your life, using the tools and knowledge they have available at the time. In a year, what they try may be totally different, based on what is known at that time. I'd guess that a lot of the people now shouting about what went wrong, what should have been better, what we shouldn't have done would also be the first to complain about nothing being done at the time'. It's genuinely got my foggy, caffeine deprived cogs turning. We love in a society of unparalleled freedoms and privilege. Access to free health care and education, support for people who are sick or unable to work. Sometimes it's good to take a moment to reflect on how lucky we are, rather than looking for a reason to complain. Now's a good time for a coffee
Google Exercise Alice- it took place in 2016 by the government simulating a Coronavirus outbreak- including 12 recommendations re test and trace/ PPE/ isolation.
The report has been published.
This will become the most damning piece of evidence against the government in any subsequent inquiry- the knew exactly what they should have done and none of this’ we have never seen the likes of it before ‘ narrative.
They made a complete balls of it.
It's clear from your post that you haven't actually read the report, the situation it was conducted in or the results from it.
FFS
It would be great if you could please elaborate on this why you think this especially regarding the ‘situation it was conducted in’ - plenty of medics and publications, including the BMJ have quoted this in the light of the poor response to the pandemic as it already highlighted issues with regard to lack of PPE equipment and poor test and trace capacity.
Part of this report was redacted and has yet to be published.
To be honest we are really not prepared for a pathogen X with much higher mortality than Covid. The number of hot zones( ie risk regions for zoonotic spillover) has grown exponentially over the past 20 years through human development/ deforestation/ lost of habitat and climate change and we will face something along the lines of a Nipah( cf Contagion the film)Hendra/ Ebola/ Spanish flu like outbreak in the next 20 years where a mortality rate of 10% is more likely a minimum. We will have not choice but to act very rapidly.
Exercise Alice was a 1 day tabletop simulation. Lots of people in a conference room with someone reading out a hypothetical situation and then adding additional incidents as the simulation progresses. The armed forces and certain departments of government carry these out for all types of exceptional events Inc terrorist attacks, disease outbreaks, wars and infrastructure breakdowns like power outages. The problem with a lot of the non military ones is that no one in a position of authority ever seems to be involved/aware/bothered.
The continual merry go round of changing jobs/parties etc in government probably means that seeing one of the important ones of these when it will make a difference is really unlikely."Hunt was aware of operation Cygnus ( as he awfully used it as an excuse for the poor response ie this was an influenza simulation rather than a Coronavirus one) and refuses to answer questions about Alice- since SARS1 every country around the world has been preparing for another outbreak and will have been constantly simulating scenarios for Ebola, Lyssa fever, Mers, Hendra. Non military ( PHE and the government) will have been fully aware of these outcomes. The thing is they can get it right- the Salisbury attack - a great example. This town could have been a waste land for several years but PHE and MI5 did an incredible job of preventing further spread. | |||
"Lying to make money is lying to make money whatever spin you out on it, in my eyes. If it's government based it gets passed off as corruption. It's the exact same snake oil just on a grander scale. If we are executing people I just wanna make sure we get some of the biggest liars and con men included alongside the small frys
I'm thinking about it in terms of the rule of law.
Weaponised disinformation. If the penalty is execution, that applies to all sides. Yes? (There are some enormously wealthy people in the anti vax movement. They're not all dudes in their pants with a camera phone)
If you want to argue that corruption should also result in execution, then that's a separate discussion.
Different offences carry penalties according to the perceived seriousness of each penalty. Conflating them is muddled thinking
Corruption is one crime, but high treason is another.
Have a look into high treason under Common Law. The penalty is?"High Treason in the United Kingdom is defined as; Offences constituting high treason include plotting the murder of the sovereign. Committing adultery with the sovereign's consort, with the sovereign's eldest unmarried daughter, or with the wife of the heir to the throne. Levying war against the sovereign and adhering to the sovereign's enemies, giving them aid or comfort and attempting to undermine the lawfully established line of succession. Several other crimes have historically been categorised as high treason, including counterfeiting money and being a Catholic priest. Not sure what your point is.... Can you clarify, ta. Winston | |||
| |||
"Wait, committing adultery with the wife of the heir to the throne is treason? Makes Kate Middleton quite the danger-bang, doesn't it? " Hell yes. *hot emoji......
Winston | |||
"Lying to make money is lying to make money whatever spin you out on it, in my eyes. If it's government based it gets passed off as corruption. It's the exact same snake oil just on a grander scale. If we are executing people I just wanna make sure we get some of the biggest liars and con men included alongside the small frys
I'm thinking about it in terms of the rule of law.
Weaponised disinformation. If the penalty is execution, that applies to all sides. Yes? (There are some enormously wealthy people in the anti vax movement. They're not all dudes in their pants with a camera phone)
If you want to argue that corruption should also result in execution, then that's a separate discussion.
Different offences carry penalties according to the perceived seriousness of each penalty. Conflating them is muddled thinking
Corruption is one crime, but high treason is another.
Have a look into high treason under Common Law. The penalty is?"Is the common law still upheld or has it been superseded by legislation? My question is quite simple. People are saying that if it's found that Big Pharma and government agencies lied to force people to get vaccinated, restrict activities, or mask, they should be executed. Under the rule of law, like crimes are treated alike. So - would you agree that if it's found instead that various agents lied to say Covid isn't dangerous, to claim risks from the vaccines that are unwarranted, to claim that masks take away freedom or that our short lockdowns have permanent negative effects - it's the same type of offence. They should also be executed. Yes? The rule of law is a vital underpinning in a functional democracy. If we're proposing such a penalty as execution, it's got to apply on all parts of the ideological spectrum. Only fair, you see. | |||
"Lying to make money is lying to make money whatever spin you out on it, in my eyes. If it's government based it gets passed off as corruption. It's the exact same snake oil just on a grander scale. If we are executing people I just wanna make sure we get some of the biggest liars and con men included alongside the small frys
I'm thinking about it in terms of the rule of law.
Weaponised disinformation. If the penalty is execution, that applies to all sides. Yes? (There are some enormously wealthy people in the anti vax movement. They're not all dudes in their pants with a camera phone)
If you want to argue that corruption should also result in execution, then that's a separate discussion.
Different offences carry penalties according to the perceived seriousness of each penalty. Conflating them is muddled thinking
Corruption is one crime, but high treason is another.
Have a look into high treason under Common Law. The penalty is?
Is the common law still upheld or has it been superseded by legislation?
My question is quite simple. People are saying that if it's found that Big Pharma and government agencies lied to force people to get vaccinated, restrict activities, or mask, they should be executed.
Under the rule of law, like crimes are treated alike.
So - would you agree that if it's found instead that various agents lied to say Covid isn't dangerous, to claim risks from the vaccines that are unwarranted, to claim that masks take away freedom or that our short lockdowns have permanent negative effects - it's the same type of offence. They should also be executed. Yes?
The rule of law is a vital underpinning in a functional democracy. If we're proposing such a penalty as execution, it's got to apply on all parts of the ideological spectrum. Only fair, you see."One law for them, one law for us!!!!! Er, no. One law for everyone. If people choose to break said laws, that's on them. Break the same law, receive the same punishment. Seems simple. Winston | |||
"Lying to make money is lying to make money whatever spin you out on it, in my eyes. If it's government based it gets passed off as corruption. It's the exact same snake oil just on a grander scale. If we are executing people I just wanna make sure we get some of the biggest liars and con men included alongside the small frys
I'm thinking about it in terms of the rule of law.
Weaponised disinformation. If the penalty is execution, that applies to all sides. Yes? (There are some enormously wealthy people in the anti vax movement. They're not all dudes in their pants with a camera phone)
If you want to argue that corruption should also result in execution, then that's a separate discussion.
Different offences carry penalties according to the perceived seriousness of each penalty. Conflating them is muddled thinking
Corruption is one crime, but high treason is another.
Have a look into high treason under Common Law. The penalty is?
Is the common law still upheld or has it been superseded by legislation?
My question is quite simple. People are saying that if it's found that Big Pharma and government agencies lied to force people to get vaccinated, restrict activities, or mask, they should be executed.
Under the rule of law, like crimes are treated alike.
So - would you agree that if it's found instead that various agents lied to say Covid isn't dangerous, to claim risks from the vaccines that are unwarranted, to claim that masks take away freedom or that our short lockdowns have permanent negative effects - it's the same type of offence. They should also be executed. Yes?
The rule of law is a vital underpinning in a functional democracy. If we're proposing such a penalty as execution, it's got to apply on all parts of the ideological spectrum. Only fair, you see.
One law for them, one law for us!!!!!
Er, no. One law for everyone. If people choose to break said laws, that's on them.
Break the same law, receive the same punishment.
Seems simple.
Winston "Yes. That's all I'm getting at. If Big Pharma and their associates/allies commit X and the penalty should be Y, Big Vaccines Are Icky and associates/allies should be subject to the same penalty if they commit the same offence. | |||
"Even with the aid of AI, computers and robotics 500 million people isn't enough to run this modern planet. Klaus schwab is full of do do. " Odd. On another thread you were recommending we read Klaus Schwab's book and follow his doctrine. 
Winston | |||
"This started a a post in another thread, and it got me thinking...... 'I think it's great that we're now in a position of relative safety to say 'I wish I did', or 'I wish I didn't'. Go back 3 years. Before a vaccine program, when people were dying every day from something we'd never seen before. Does it seem likely that we'd all be in a better situation if those measures weren't put in place at all? It's not a perfect parallel, but if you're hit by a car and taken to hospital, they don't ask you if you want life saving surgery. They just try to save your life, using the tools and knowledge they have available at the time. In a year, what they try may be totally different, based on what is known at that time. I'd guess that a lot of the people now shouting about what went wrong, what should have been better, what we shouldn't have done would also be the first to complain about nothing being done at the time'. It's genuinely got my foggy, caffeine deprived cogs turning. We love in a society of unparalleled freedoms and privilege. Access to free health care and education, support for people who are sick or unable to work. Sometimes it's good to take a moment to reflect on how lucky we are, rather than looking for a reason to complain. Now's a good time for a coffee
Google Exercise Alice- it took place in 2016 by the government simulating a Coronavirus outbreak- including 12 recommendations re test and trace/ PPE/ isolation.
The report has been published.
This will become the most damning piece of evidence against the government in any subsequent inquiry- the knew exactly what they should have done and none of this’ we have never seen the likes of it before ‘ narrative.
They made a complete balls of it.
It's clear from your post that you haven't actually read the report, the situation it was conducted in or the results from it.
FFS
It would be great if you could please elaborate on this why you think this especially regarding the ‘situation it was conducted in’ - plenty of medics and publications, including the BMJ have quoted this in the light of the poor response to the pandemic as it already highlighted issues with regard to lack of PPE equipment and poor test and trace capacity.
Part of this report was redacted and has yet to be published.
To be honest we are really not prepared for a pathogen X with much higher mortality than Covid. The number of hot zones( ie risk regions for zoonotic spillover) has grown exponentially over the past 20 years through human development/ deforestation/ lost of habitat and climate change and we will face something along the lines of a Nipah( cf Contagion the film)Hendra/ Ebola/ Spanish flu like outbreak in the next 20 years where a mortality rate of 10% is more likely a minimum. We will have not choice but to act very rapidly.
Exercise Alice was a 1 day tabletop simulation. Lots of people in a conference room with someone reading out a hypothetical situation and then adding additional incidents as the simulation progresses. The armed forces and certain departments of government carry these out for all types of exceptional events Inc terrorist attacks, disease outbreaks, wars and infrastructure breakdowns like power outages. The problem with a lot of the non military ones is that no one in a position of authority ever seems to be involved/aware/bothered.
The continual merry go round of changing jobs/parties etc in government probably means that seeing one of the important ones of these when it will make a difference is really unlikely.
Hunt was aware of operation Cygnus ( as he awfully used it as an excuse for the poor response ie this was an influenza simulation rather than a Coronavirus one) and refuses to answer questions about Alice- since SARS1 every country around the world has been preparing for another outbreak and will have been constantly simulating scenarios for Ebola, Lyssa fever, Mers, Hendra.
Non military ( PHE and the government) will have been fully aware of these outcomes.
The thing is they can get it right- the Salisbury attack - a great example. This town could have been a waste land for several years but PHE and MI5 did an incredible job of preventing further spread."Where do you think the quickly actioned moves at the start of the pandemic came from? The move from hospitals to care homes. The split of what was deemed essential industry to remain open and what was advised to close. The contact with construction contractors to set up nightingale hospitals. All based on recommendations from the report. The Salisbury attack was a very different scenario as the solution involved a small number of people, in a manageable area. Essentially 1 person ran a multi agency team and all actions were agreed and carried out in concert. If the Salisbury attack had happened in every city in the UK, within days of each other, the outcome would have been very different. Just because the situation was different, takes nothing away from the ruthless efficiency of the security services in managing that threat, it was amazing. I'm beginning to wonder if everyone bases their arguments on headlines and clip notes rather than reading, digesting and understanding the information? | |||
"This started a a post in another thread, and it got me thinking...... 'I think it's great that we're now in a position of relative safety to say 'I wish I did', or 'I wish I didn't'. Go back 3 years. Before a vaccine program, when people were dying every day from something we'd never seen before. Does it seem likely that we'd all be in a better situation if those measures weren't put in place at all? It's not a perfect parallel, but if you're hit by a car and taken to hospital, they don't ask you if you want life saving surgery. They just try to save your life, using the tools and knowledge they have available at the time. In a year, what they try may be totally different, based on what is known at that time. I'd guess that a lot of the people now shouting about what went wrong, what should have been better, what we shouldn't have done would also be the first to complain about nothing being done at the time'. It's genuinely got my foggy, caffeine deprived cogs turning. We love in a society of unparalleled freedoms and privilege. Access to free health care and education, support for people who are sick or unable to work. Sometimes it's good to take a moment to reflect on how lucky we are, rather than looking for a reason to complain. Now's a good time for a coffee
Google Exercise Alice- it took place in 2016 by the government simulating a Coronavirus outbreak- including 12 recommendations re test and trace/ PPE/ isolation.
The report has been published.
This will become the most damning piece of evidence against the government in any subsequent inquiry- the knew exactly what they should have done and none of this’ we have never seen the likes of it before ‘ narrative.
They made a complete balls of it.
It's clear from your post that you haven't actually read the report, the situation it was conducted in or the results from it.
FFS
It would be great if you could please elaborate on this why you think this especially regarding the ‘situation it was conducted in’ - plenty of medics and publications, including the BMJ have quoted this in the light of the poor response to the pandemic as it already highlighted issues with regard to lack of PPE equipment and poor test and trace capacity.
Part of this report was redacted and has yet to be published.
To be honest we are really not prepared for a pathogen X with much higher mortality than Covid. The number of hot zones( ie risk regions for zoonotic spillover) has grown exponentially over the past 20 years through human development/ deforestation/ lost of habitat and climate change and we will face something along the lines of a Nipah( cf Contagion the film)Hendra/ Ebola/ Spanish flu like outbreak in the next 20 years where a mortality rate of 10% is more likely a minimum. We will have not choice but to act very rapidly.
Exercise Alice was a 1 day tabletop simulation. Lots of people in a conference room with someone reading out a hypothetical situation and then adding additional incidents as the simulation progresses. The armed forces and certain departments of government carry these out for all types of exceptional events Inc terrorist attacks, disease outbreaks, wars and infrastructure breakdowns like power outages. The problem with a lot of the non military ones is that no one in a position of authority ever seems to be involved/aware/bothered.
The continual merry go round of changing jobs/parties etc in government probably means that seeing one of the important ones of these when it will make a difference is really unlikely.
Hunt was aware of operation Cygnus ( as he awfully used it as an excuse for the poor response ie this was an influenza simulation rather than a Coronavirus one) and refuses to answer questions about Alice- since SARS1 every country around the world has been preparing for another outbreak and will have been constantly simulating scenarios for Ebola, Lyssa fever, Mers, Hendra.
Non military ( PHE and the government) will have been fully aware of these outcomes.
The thing is they can get it right- the Salisbury attack - a great example. This town could have been a waste land for several years but PHE and MI5 did an incredible job of preventing further spread.
Where do you think the quickly actioned moves at the start of the pandemic came from? The move from hospitals to care homes. The split of what was deemed essential industry to remain open and what was advised to close. The contact with construction contractors to set up nightingale hospitals. All based on recommendations from the report. The Salisbury attack was a very different scenario as the solution involved a small number of people, in a manageable area. Essentially 1 person ran a multi agency team and all actions were agreed and carried out in concert.
If the Salisbury attack had happened in every city in the UK, within days of each other, the outcome would have been very different. Just because the situation was different, takes nothing away from the ruthless efficiency of the security services in managing that threat, it was amazing.
I'm beginning to wonder if everyone bases their arguments on headlines and clip notes rather than reading, digesting and understanding the information?"Dorset.J said they *can* get it right. They are capable. Not that they did in this instance. They can get it right, and they fucked it up. That's worse than incapable and failed | |||
