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Have we evolved to live with Covid?
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"So it seems to be accepted that we are living with Covid now. My questions are - how can we live with a virus unless we have adapted ( genetically or pharmaceutical intervention) to the virus? My answer yes with mortality( vaccines) but not morbidity ( LC) How can we adapt to this virus unless we have evolved to adapt to this virus? Darwin would suggest this takes a few generations. And yet we seem to think we have achieved it in 2 years. Discuss. " It's a virus. We live with flu every year. Nothing new. | |||
"So it seems to be accepted that we are living with Covid now. My questions are - how can we live with a virus unless we have adapted ( genetically or pharmaceutical intervention) to the virus? My answer yes with mortality( vaccines) but not morbidity ( LC) How can we adapt to this virus unless we have evolved to adapt to this virus? Darwin would suggest this takes a few generations. And yet we seem to think we have achieved it in 2 years. Discuss. It's a virus. We live with flu every year. Nothing new." Flu entered the human population hundreds of years ago. ie generations ago Covid - 2020 It’s not flu and your genetic code will have adaptations to flu thanks to your forefathers but not to Covid | |||
"So it seems to be accepted that we are living with Covid now. My questions are - how can we live with a virus unless we have adapted ( genetically or pharmaceutical intervention) to the virus? My answer yes with mortality( vaccines) but not morbidity ( LC) How can we adapt to this virus unless we have evolved to adapt to this virus? Darwin would suggest this takes a few generations. And yet we seem to think we have achieved it in 2 years. Discuss. " I'm not sure I follow your logic, but I think the answer is antibodies. | |||
"So it seems to be accepted that we are living with Covid now. My questions are - how can we live with a virus unless we have adapted ( genetically or pharmaceutical intervention) to the virus? My answer yes with mortality( vaccines) but not morbidity ( LC) How can we adapt to this virus unless we have evolved to adapt to this virus? Darwin would suggest this takes a few generations. And yet we seem to think we have achieved it in 2 years. Discuss. It's a virus. We live with flu every year. Nothing new." Ebola is a virus too. | |||
"So it seems to be accepted that we are living with Covid now. My questions are - how can we live with a virus unless we have adapted ( genetically or pharmaceutical intervention) to the virus? My answer yes with mortality( vaccines) but not morbidity ( LC) How can we adapt to this virus unless we have evolved to adapt to this virus? Darwin would suggest this takes a few generations. And yet we seem to think we have achieved it in 2 years. Discuss. It's a virus. We live with flu every year. Nothing new. Flu entered the human population hundreds of years ago. ie generations ago Covid - 2020 It’s not flu and your genetic code will have adaptations to flu thanks to your forefathers but not to Covid " Different forms of covid virus have been with us for years. So not valid to say only 2 years. | |||
"So it seems to be accepted that we are living with Covid now. My questions are - how can we live with a virus unless we have adapted ( genetically or pharmaceutical intervention) to the virus? My answer yes with mortality( vaccines) but not morbidity ( LC) How can we adapt to this virus unless we have evolved to adapt to this virus? Darwin would suggest this takes a few generations. And yet we seem to think we have achieved it in 2 years. Discuss. It's a virus. We live with flu every year. Nothing new. Flu entered the human population hundreds of years ago. ie generations ago Covid - 2020 It’s not flu and your genetic code will have adaptations to flu thanks to your forefathers but not to Covid Different forms of covid virus have been with us for years. So not valid to say only 2 years." Apart from SARr1 which affect maybe 30000 people 20 years ago and was not seen widely worldwide- please tell me what other SabreCoronavirus are you talking about. The cold virus has been around for 100 years which is a coronavirus but very unlike Covid | |||
"So it seems to be accepted that we are living with Covid now. My questions are - how can we live with a virus unless we have adapted ( genetically or pharmaceutical intervention) to the virus? My answer yes with mortality( vaccines) but not morbidity ( LC) How can we adapt to this virus unless we have evolved to adapt to this virus? Darwin would suggest this takes a few generations. And yet we seem to think we have achieved it in 2 years. Discuss. I'm not sure I follow your logic, but I think the answer is antibodies. " Yes we have antibodies but be keep getting re infected and sick- hence we have not evolved, yet, to be adapted to it. Future generations may. | |||
"So it seems to be accepted that we are living with Covid now. My questions are - how can we live with a virus unless we have adapted ( genetically or pharmaceutical intervention) to the virus? My answer yes with mortality( vaccines) but not morbidity ( LC) How can we adapt to this virus unless we have evolved to adapt to this virus? Darwin would suggest this takes a few generations. And yet we seem to think we have achieved it in 2 years. Discuss. " No we have not evolved to live with covid. The mammals (and probably other branches of the tree of life) evolved a general purpose system to resist infections, the immune system. This has been at least partially successful against covid, as in the short term we have not all died. Vaccines are just a human designed method to aid the immune system, by giving it a measured "taste" of a virus that minimises the risk of actually falling ill, but gives good chance of the system figuring out how to kill the virus. Actual evolution by definition takes multiple generations, and has nothing to do with individuals learning to live with the disease. Evolution operates by those who are susceptible dying from the disease. The ones who through accident of genetics happen to be less susceptible are the ones who live through the disease, and thus get to breed the next generation. Evolution happens through dying from the disease, not learning to live with the disease. | |||
"So it seems to be accepted that we are living with Covid now. My questions are - how can we live with a virus unless we have adapted ( genetically or pharmaceutical intervention) to the virus? My answer yes with mortality( vaccines) but not morbidity ( LC) How can we adapt to this virus unless we have evolved to adapt to this virus? Darwin would suggest this takes a few generations. And yet we seem to think we have achieved it in 2 years. Discuss. I'm not sure I follow your logic, but I think the answer is antibodies. Yes we have antibodies but be keep getting re infected and sick- hence we have not evolved, yet, to be adapted to it. Future generations may." You dont apply your own logic consistently … we also get re infected and sick from flu . You say have we evolved to live with covid - they are not mutually exclusive ideas. We have not evolved but we are now in a phase of living with it the best we can | |||
"So it seems to be accepted that we are living with Covid now. My questions are - how can we live with a virus unless we have adapted ( genetically or pharmaceutical intervention) to the virus? My answer yes with mortality( vaccines) but not morbidity ( LC) How can we adapt to this virus unless we have evolved to adapt to this virus? Darwin would suggest this takes a few generations. And yet we seem to think we have achieved it in 2 years. Discuss. I'm not sure I follow your logic, but I think the answer is antibodies. Yes we have antibodies but be keep getting re infected and sick- hence we have not evolved, yet, to be adapted to it. Future generations may. You dont apply your own logic consistently … we also get re infected and sick from flu . You say have we evolved to live with covid - they are not mutually exclusive ideas. We have not evolved but we are now in a phase of living with it the best we can " Living as best we can - a very open definition and slightly ambiguous, can we be living with this virus if life expectancy is dropping. Viruses are unfortunately indifferent and opportunistic when it comes to human ambivalence. The issue is timeline- we have had over 100 years , probably longer to adapt to influenza- yes we get reinfected but morbidity rates are nowhere near Covid. Maybe in 20-30 years we will get rates with Covid comparable to influenza but we are no Were near that at the moment. We get reinfected with the Cold virus- also a Coronavirus( not SabreCoronavirus)- but get low morbidity rates You can live with any virus but at what cost | |||
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"So it seems to be accepted that we are living with Covid now. My questions are - how can we live with a virus unless we have adapted ( genetically or pharmaceutical intervention) to the virus? My answer yes with mortality( vaccines) but not morbidity ( LC) How can we adapt to this virus unless we have evolved to adapt to this virus? Darwin would suggest this takes a few generations. And yet we seem to think we have achieved it in 2 years. Discuss. I'm not sure I follow your logic, but I think the answer is antibodies. Yes we have antibodies but be keep getting re infected and sick- hence we have not evolved, yet, to be adapted to it. Future generations may. You dont apply your own logic consistently … we also get re infected and sick from flu . You say have we evolved to live with covid - they are not mutually exclusive ideas. We have not evolved but we are now in a phase of living with it the best we can " Ps we have not evolved to live with Covid …, yet | |||
"So it seems to be accepted that we are living with Covid now. My questions are - how can we live with a virus unless we have adapted ( genetically or pharmaceutical intervention) to the virus? My answer yes with mortality( vaccines) but not morbidity ( LC) How can we adapt to this virus unless we have evolved to adapt to this virus? Darwin would suggest this takes a few generations. And yet we seem to think we have achieved it in 2 years. Discuss. I'm not sure I follow your logic, but I think the answer is antibodies. Yes we have antibodies but be keep getting re infected and sick- hence we have not evolved, yet, to be adapted to it. Future generations may. You dont apply your own logic consistently … we also get re infected and sick from flu . You say have we evolved to live with covid - they are not mutually exclusive ideas. We have not evolved but we are now in a phase of living with it the best we can Living as best we can - a very open definition and slightly ambiguous, can we be living with this virus if life expectancy is dropping. Viruses are unfortunately indifferent and opportunistic when it comes to human ambivalence. The issue is timeline- we have had over 100 years , probably longer to adapt to influenza- yes we get reinfected but morbidity rates are nowhere near Covid. Maybe in 20-30 years we will get rates with Covid comparable to influenza but we are no Were near that at the moment. We get reinfected with the Cold virus- also a Coronavirus( not SabreCoronavirus)- but get low morbidity rates You can live with any virus but at what cost" Again you challenge your own logic in the same response. You start off being pedantic about the use of the term “living with” then end by using it just as generically as any other poster So for the absence of doubt - NO we have evolved beyond covid in 2 short years However yes as a society we are living with it - by that i mean we are going about our lives for the most part normally, vaccinating / boosting the vulnerable as we would with flu, choosing our own risk levels rather than under government restrictions, seeing some deaths as we would living with flu | |||
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"So it seems to be accepted that we are living with Covid now. My questions are - how can we live with a virus unless we have adapted ( genetically or pharmaceutical intervention) to the virus? My answer yes with mortality( vaccines) but not morbidity ( LC) How can we adapt to this virus unless we have evolved to adapt to this virus? Darwin would suggest this takes a few generations. And yet we seem to think we have achieved it in 2 years. Discuss. No we have not evolved to live with covid. The mammals (and probably other branches of the tree of life) evolved a general purpose system to resist infections, the immune system. This has been at least partially successful against covid, as in the short term we have not all died. Vaccines are just a human designed method to aid the immune system, by giving it a measured "taste" of a virus that minimises the risk of actually falling ill, but gives good chance of the system figuring out how to kill the virus. Actual evolution by definition takes multiple generations, and has nothing to do with individuals learning to live with the disease. Evolution operates by those who are susceptible dying from the disease. The ones who through accident of genetics happen to be less susceptible are the ones who live through the disease, and thus get to breed the next generation. Evolution happens through dying from the disease, not learning to live with the disease."  | |||
"So it seems to be accepted that we are living with Covid now. My questions are - how can we live with a virus unless we have adapted ( genetically or pharmaceutical intervention) to the virus? My answer yes with mortality( vaccines) but not morbidity ( LC) How can we adapt to this virus unless we have evolved to adapt to this virus? Darwin would suggest this takes a few generations. And yet we seem to think we have achieved it in 2 years. Discuss. I'm not sure I follow your logic, but I think the answer is antibodies. Yes we have antibodies but be keep getting re infected and sick- hence we have not evolved, yet, to be adapted to it. Future generations may. You dont apply your own logic consistently … we also get re infected and sick from flu . You say have we evolved to live with covid - they are not mutually exclusive ideas. We have not evolved but we are now in a phase of living with it the best we can Living as best we can - a very open definition and slightly ambiguous, can we be living with this virus if life expectancy is dropping. Viruses are unfortunately indifferent and opportunistic when it comes to human ambivalence. The issue is timeline- we have had over 100 years , probably longer to adapt to influenza- yes we get reinfected but morbidity rates are nowhere near Covid. Maybe in 20-30 years we will get rates with Covid comparable to influenza but we are no Were near that at the moment. We get reinfected with the Cold virus- also a Coronavirus( not SabreCoronavirus)- but get low morbidity rates You can live with any virus but at what cost Again you challenge your own logic in the same response. You start off being pedantic about the use of the term “living with” then end by using it just as generically as any other poster So for the absence of doubt - NO we have evolved beyond covid in 2 short years However yes as a society we are living with it - by that i mean we are going about our lives for the most part normally, vaccinating / boosting the vulnerable as we would with flu, choosing our own risk levels rather than under government restrictions, seeing some deaths as we would living with flu " Again, if you go back to what I have mentioned- it’s not the mortality that I question( we have adapted) with Covid- it’s the morbidity ( primarily through long Covid) that we are not or at least so far have not adapted to and there are no therapeutics available for LC so far. Long Covid numbers have been gradually rising since the start of the Pandemic - 2.3 million currently- figures which are literally multiples of other post viral illnesses. Each wave adds an extra 3-400 K to the figure. The Bank of England and the FED in the US have pointed this already and it’s economically unsustainable to keep losing part of your workforce in continuing greater numbers with each successive wave. Personally, I think over the next year, there will be a rethink in the next year or so as governments will be forced to gradually accept that LC is too expensive a condition to burden any economy with. | |||
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"So it seems to be accepted that we are living with Covid now. My questions are - how can we live with a virus unless we have adapted ( genetically or pharmaceutical intervention) to the virus? My answer is yes with mortality( vaccines) but not morbidity ( LC) How can we adapt to this virus unless we have evolved to adapt to this virus? Darwin would suggest this takes a few generations. And yet we seem to think we have achieved it in 2 years. Discuss. " Evolved is the wrong word we have well not us our antibodies in an immune system has now experienced the virus and recognize it as dangerous so fight it from the very start of the infection. No evolution has taken place an evolutionary adaptation would have been something like feathers up our nose to catch the virus going up there it would have taken hundreds of thousands of years. | |||
"Yawn, it’s like the flu, we live with that and it kills thousands, no different. It was the government’s plan from the start,but knew they needed to be active." Fortunately the financial markets are open today, so I'll be cleaning up on tinfoil again today. The whole "it was the governments plan" falls apart under the most scant scrutiny. Winston | |||
"So it seems to be accepted that we are living with Covid now. My questions are - how can we live with a virus unless we have adapted ( genetically or pharmaceutical intervention) to the virus? My answer yes with mortality( vaccines) but not morbidity ( LC) How can we adapt to this virus unless we have evolved to adapt to this virus? Darwin would suggest this takes a few generations. And yet we seem to think we have achieved it in 2 years. Discuss. " Not sure evolution happens in 2 years. I think some people have chosen to ignore it. Or get a vaccine and ignore it. Or do their best to avoid it like any infectious disease. | |||
"Vaccines!! " This is how I've evolved to live with smallpox | |||
"The virus will adapt more than we will. There’s a thing called antigenic drift and shift, which means the virus will alter how it affects humans with time. Every virus does this and ultimately CV19 will be just another virus that can cause cold-like symptoms. There is amounting evidence that we over called the severity of covid in the first place. Lots died, tragically, but lots didn’t and the modellers did get it wrong. Ultimately we will love with covid just as we “live” with loads of other viruses. " There is no magic trajectory inbuilt in viruses that means that they must get weaker over time. It may or may not be the case. Obviously evolution isn't going to be in effect for many generations in humans. Some need to revisit basic evolutionary science. | |||
"So it seems to be accepted that we are living with Covid now. My questions are - how can we live with a virus unless we have adapted ( genetically or pharmaceutical intervention) to the virus? My answer yes with mortality( vaccines) but not morbidity ( LC) How can we adapt to this virus unless we have evolved to adapt to this virus? Darwin would suggest this takes a few generations. And yet we seem to think we have achieved it in 2 years. Discuss. " There is a factor that you’re not considering here… We cannot have evolved to live with the virus in such a small period of time, HOWEVER, a rapidly reproducing relatively simple organism such as the virus can. Simply put, the virus has evolved into a much less fatal form because killing your host is actually a really bad way to spread… strains that are less deadly actually spread much better and therefore these become the dominant strains | |||
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"So it seems to be accepted that we are living with Covid now. My questions are - how can we live with a virus unless we have adapted ( genetically or pharmaceutical intervention) to the virus? My answer yes with mortality( vaccines) but not morbidity ( LC) How can we adapt to this virus unless we have evolved to adapt to this virus? Darwin would suggest this takes a few generations. And yet we seem to think we have achieved it in 2 years. Discuss. " The (very) BASIC premise of evolution is simply this.. during procreation or replication a genetic inconsistency occurs creating a mutation. This mutation creates an advantage for the mutated organism which helps them to be a better version of their species. This in turn makes them more likely to survive, and more attractive when it comes to breeding... until ultimately a new subspecies which all have this advantageous gene has been created. These mutations are generally tiny (slightly taller, longer neck, stronger legs, etc...), but over centuries and dozens of generations can lead to a distinct difference from where they began. Evolution can not happen within a couple of years for humans, as it requires reproduction of mutated genes to propagate the changes. Cal | |||
"So it seems to be accepted that we are living with Covid now. My questions are - how can we live with a virus unless we have adapted ( genetically or pharmaceutical intervention) to the virus? My answer yes with mortality( vaccines) but not morbidity ( LC) How can we adapt to this virus unless we have evolved to adapt to this virus? Darwin would suggest this takes a few generations. And yet we seem to think we have achieved it in 2 years. Discuss. There is a factor that you’re not considering here… We cannot have evolved to live with the virus in such a small period of time, HOWEVER, a rapidly reproducing relatively simple organism such as the virus can. Simply put, the virus has evolved into a much less fatal form because killing your host is actually a really bad way to spread… strains that are less deadly actually spread much better and therefore these become the dominant strains " I wonder if this is evolution to become less fatal, or the prior interaction of our immune systems with the virus. China might be indicative of this. Also, even if current variants are less fatal in the acute stage, many viruses have lingering effects for decades. We have no way of knowing with this one, yet. | |||
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"I will be continuing on as normal, did you know that there are more viruses than stars in the universe? "How many stars are there? | |||
"I will be continuing on as normal, did you know that there are more viruses than stars in the universe?
How many stars are there?"57? | |||
"I will be continuing on as normal, did you know that there are more viruses than stars in the universe?
How many stars are there?
57?"According to the article, an estimated 10 nonillion (10 to the 31st power) individual viruses exist on our planet enough to assign one to every star in the universe. | |||
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"So it seems to be accepted that we are living with Covid now. My questions are - how can we live with a virus unless we have adapted ( genetically or pharmaceutical intervention) to the virus? My answer yes with mortality( vaccines) but not morbidity ( LC) How can we adapt to this virus unless we have evolved to adapt to this virus? Darwin would suggest this takes a few generations. And yet we seem to think we have achieved it in 2 years. Discuss. There is a factor that you’re not considering here… We cannot have evolved to live with the virus in such a small period of time, HOWEVER, a rapidly reproducing relatively simple organism such as the virus can. Simply put, the virus has evolved into a much less fatal form because killing your host is actually a really bad way to spread… strains that are less deadly actually spread much better and therefore these become the dominant strains " Again- two points 1. Morbidity is the issue not morality 2. Covid doesn’t need humans to survive - it’s spread to at least 30 other species best example is white tailed deer in the states where it’s endemic- so there is little selection pressure to become less virulent. If anything, more recent variants have passaged through other species- what’s virulent for one species maybe completely benign to another. | |||
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"So it seems to be accepted that we are living with Covid now. My questions are - how can we live with a virus unless we have adapted ( genetically or pharmaceutical intervention) to the virus? My answer yes with mortality( vaccines) but not morbidity ( LC) How can we adapt to this virus unless we have evolved to adapt to this virus? Darwin would suggest this takes a few generations. And yet we seem to think we have achieved it in 2 years. Discuss. There is a factor that you’re not considering here… We cannot have evolved to live with the virus in such a small period of time, HOWEVER, a rapidly reproducing relatively simple organism such as the virus can. Simply put, the virus has evolved into a much less fatal form because killing your host is actually a really bad way to spread… strains that are less deadly actually spread much better and therefore these become the dominant strains " However the evolutionary pressure is only for the host to survive long enough to spread the virus. The virus that kills instantly never gets to spread. But if the virus spreads faster than it kills, it can easily become dominant even if it has 100% delayed fatality rate (eg. HIV causing AIDS). Current indications are that each infection with covid causes progressive degrading of the immune system. Covid has been superbly successful at spreading and infecting human beings; it could yet turn out to be superbly successful at killing human beings. | |||
"So it seems to be accepted that we are living with Covid now. My questions are - how can we live with a virus unless we have adapted ( genetically or pharmaceutical intervention) to the virus? My answer yes with mortality( vaccines) but not morbidity ( LC) How can we adapt to this virus unless we have evolved to adapt to this virus? Darwin would suggest this takes a few generations. And yet we seem to think we have achieved it in 2 years. Discuss. It's a virus. We live with flu every year. Nothing new." the covid jab lovers will be saying covid is nothing like flu next (as always) | |||
"Tbh I think only generations to come will know the full impact of the pandemic on people living in the 2020s." you have said something true for once | |||
"Tbh I think only generations to come will know the full impact of the pandemic on people living in the 2020s. you have said something true for once "Mmm. If it's not "just a cold" long term, I don't intend to find out with my health. I'll let other people do that. | |||
"Tbh I think only generations to come will know the full impact of the pandemic on people living in the 2020s. you have said something true for once
Mmm.
If it's not "just a cold" long term, I don't intend to find out with my health. I'll let other people do that."it's okay I remember you have had 3 jabs so your safe | |||
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"Tbh I think only generations to come will know the full impact of the pandemic on people living in the 2020s. you have said something true for once
Mmm.
If it's not "just a cold" long term, I don't intend to find out with my health. I'll let other people do that. it's okay I remember you have had 3 jabs so your safe "I've had six. Yes, I keep myself safe. Thank you. | |||
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"No. The virus has/will evolve to live with us. It's sole purpose is reproduction, so logically it will become more virulent but less harmful. It already is." | |||
"So it seems to be accepted that we are living with Covid now. My questions are - how can we live with a virus unless we have adapted ( genetically or pharmaceutical intervention) to the virus? My answer yes with mortality( vaccines) but not morbidity ( LC) How can we adapt to this virus unless we have evolved to adapt to this virus? Darwin would suggest this takes a few generations. And yet we seem to think we have achieved it in 2 years. Discuss. " Ow that we have a better understanding of it and how to treat it yes | |||
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"We’ve had covid twice, it’s apart of the regular cycle now. I’ve only had the flu once and I can honestly say I’d rather have covid every year than the flu every again lol" if I got covid how I did the 2nd time, I'd agree but the first time...nooooo... I'm also suffering some long term effects from having covid. Hoping like the first time after 6 months or so they go away | |||
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"Sorry if I'm repeating anyone but I've skimmed through the early answers and jumped to end. OP, by you're replies to some people you have already made up your mind and seem to move the goal posts back and forward a few times, so what are you really asking? One thing that you overlook in your quest for 'evolution' adaptation is that viruses adapt constantly to hosts, this makes it nigh impossible for a host to evolve especially when factoring in vaccines which are then planted to aid the host against the virus without relying upon the time it takes to evolve which isn't the correct terminology, but maybe a better word would have been adapted. This however also opens it beyond internal adaptations. The virus have to adapt to the host so as NoT to kill it or it potentially kills itself. So maybe you're asking the wrong question? As for the flu and your argument that it's not the same so doesn't apply, well I beg to differ, as with any virus or bug (I'm sure there's a more scientific term), I understand they act in much the same way as a form of self-preservation. So no we haven't evolved and I have my doubts that we actually can given how quickly they evolve and adapt, but some have adapted in some ways to protect themselves, by vaccination, by becoming more aware of transmitting it along with other virus etc. As with almost any virus or bug unless it's 100% irradiated and NOT even stored in frozen vials, the chance of it returning is still there in our life-time and generations to come. Of course all this could be completely wrong as I'm no immunologist or virologist." Virus do not necessarily evolve to become less virulent as an act of self preservation, eg Rabies- it’s been round for thousands of years and it still kills of thousands every year. The issue is that if a virus has adequate reservoir in other species which Rabies and now Covid does( see above thread re white tailed deer) then there is no selection pressure to evolve to a less virulent form . And as already mentioned, new variants are picking up DNA sequences from non human mammals- bottom line- what’s benign in one species can be deleterious in another. Long Covid cases keep rising despite what we are doing now. It’s a linear graph since the start of the pandemic. 2.3 million in the UK at the moment with 600- 700 K being added every year. In 5 years time it will be, if nothing changes, 5-6 million. Is this something we can live with? | |||
" Is this something we can live with? " Is there a point to your question? Do you mean morally? Financially? Because physically we already are. Care to explain what your alternative would be or are you just blowing hot air for the sake of stirring the pot? | |||
" Is this something we can live with? Is there a point to your question? Do you mean morally? Financially? Because physically we already are. Care to explain what your alternative would be or are you just blowing hot air for the sake of stirring the pot? " I am certainly not stirring the pot. Financially, worth googling the FED( US) predictions on the cost of LC in the next few years- literally trillions. Similarly- the BOE recognise that LC is contributing to shortages in the labour market here. Morally , of course - it awful- so many( including FAB members ) whose lives have changed dramatically. Unfortunately the trend for LC is still upwards with little signs of plateauing. Financially- we cannot afford it. Alternatives- not an easy one to answer as the solutions( more NPI’s) are not going to palatable to many. But we should be at least acknowledging that, unless there are huge advances in therapeutics soon- we cannot continue living with Covid as we are. | |||
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" Is this something we can live with? Is there a point to your question? Do you mean morally? Financially? Because physically we already are. Care to explain what your alternative would be or are you just blowing hot air for the sake of stirring the pot? I am certainly not stirring the pot. Financially, worth googling the FED( US) predictions on the cost of LC in the next few years- literally trillions. Similarly- the BOE recognise that LC is contributing to shortages in the labour market here. Morally , of course - it awful- so many( including FAB members ) whose lives have changed dramatically. Unfortunately the trend for LC is still upwards with little signs of plateauing. Financially- we cannot afford it. Alternatives- not an easy one to answer as the solutions( more NPI’s) are not going to palatable to many. But we should be at least acknowledging that, unless there are huge advances in therapeutics soon- we cannot continue living with Covid as we are." We shall continue to fuck around until it is far too late. | |||
"I guess the fact it wasn’t dangerous to over 99% of the population made it very easy for us to adapt to "Correct, in the first wave…… that figure has moved to 97% because 3% now have LC. I’d consider LC a dangerous condition | |||
"I guess the fact it wasn’t dangerous to over 99% of the population made it very easy for us to adapt to "This . | |||
"I guess the fact it wasn’t dangerous to over 99% of the population made it very easy for us to adapt to "It wouldn't concern you in the slightest if 1% of the population died then ? | |||
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"So it seems to be accepted that we are living with Covid now. My questions are - how can we live with a virus unless we have adapted ( genetically or pharmaceutical intervention) to the virus? My answer yes with mortality( vaccines) but not morbidity ( LC) How can we adapt to this virus unless we have evolved to adapt to this virus? Darwin would suggest this takes a few generations. And yet we seem to think we have achieved it in 2 years. Discuss. " The common cold is a coronavirus once mildly deadly but it’s not in any viruses interest to kill it’s host our immune system has been trained to respond to many viruses flu,colds ect over millennia | |||
"So it seems to be accepted that we are living with Covid now. My questions are - how can we live with a virus unless we have adapted ( genetically or pharmaceutical intervention) to the virus? My answer yes with mortality( vaccines) but not morbidity ( LC) How can we adapt to this virus unless we have evolved to adapt to this virus? Darwin would suggest this takes a few generations. And yet we seem to think we have achieved it in 2 years. Discuss. The common cold is a coronavirus once mildly deadly but it’s not in any viruses interest to kill it’s host our immune system has been trained to respond to many viruses flu,colds ect over millennia " Correct and my point is timeline- how long do we take to adapt and Secondly, Covid has many mammalian hosts- see above white tailed deer reference- there is no pressure if you have many hosts to become milder | |||
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"I guess the fact it wasn’t dangerous to over 99% of the population made it very easy for us to adapt to
It wouldn't concern you in the slightest if 1% of the population died then ?"Not in the slightest I’m the guy that rooted for thanos and if 50% of the population died I’d be ok with that, | |||
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"As a species we constantly adapt and change. As for Covid it's pretty clear its not the devastating bug they thought it was or tried to convince us it was. As an engineer, I did some maths. The world death toll last time I checked based on WHO figures was just short of 8m worldwide. This over a two year period. 8M deaths is 1% of 1% of the world population. Put it another way. 99.99% did not perish. We are told the vacines saved lives. I dont believe this. In Ireland, 80% of the deaths were in the over 80s who had 3 underlying conditions at least. TB and HIV typically deaths combined typically is 2M per year or 4m over two years, but no media frenzie or vacine roll out for this. Flu itself typically kills 600K each year. These are WHO stats. Of greater concern and largly going unreported and uninvetigated, are the dramatic increases in weekly deaths over and above normal pre covid levels. In the UK, its averaging 1500 excess deaths per week. No figures available for Ireland. And if you think I'm spoofing simply Google Exccess weekly UK deaths Daily Telegraph and you'll find an article from some months ago on the subject. But let's stop talking Covid and start talking Kink. Its far more interesting and definitely more fun" As an engineer you shouldn't be ignoring the fact that deaths were increasing exponentially and had reached over 1000 a day, this was reduced due to the lockdown and managed until the vaccine was available and administered. Thankfully the virus has mutated since and although more transmissible is less fatal. Maybe you can model the maths without lockdown ? It's already been done several times but try it yourself | |||
"As a species we constantly adapt and change. As for Covid it's pretty clear its not the devastating bug they thought it was or tried to convince us it was. As an engineer, I did some maths. The world death toll last time I checked based on WHO figures was just short of 8m worldwide. This over a two year period. 8M deaths is 1% of 1% of the world population. Put it another way. 99.99% did not perish. We are told the vacines saved lives. I dont believe this. In Ireland, 80% of the deaths were in the over 80s who had 3 underlying conditions at least. TB and HIV typically deaths combined typically is 2M per year or 4m over two years, but no media frenzie or vacine roll out for this. Flu itself typically kills 600K each year. These are WHO stats. Of greater concern and largly going unreported and uninvetigated, are the dramatic increases in weekly deaths over and above normal pre covid levels. In the UK, its averaging 1500 excess deaths per week. No figures available for Ireland. And if you think I'm spoofing simply Google Exccess weekly UK deaths Daily Telegraph and you'll find an article from some months ago on the subject. But let's stop talking Covid and start talking Kink. Its far more interesting and definitely more fun" I keep going back to my point that it’s not mortality that’s the issue- it’s Covids morbidity. You have quoted mortality rates- which I am not disputing or belittling- but the greater social and economic impact is being felt and will continue to increase is with Long Covid. I have no figures for Ireland but I am sure it will have similar incidences to other countries | |||
"As a species we constantly adapt and change. As for Covid it's pretty clear its not the devastating bug they thought it was or tried to convince us it was. As an engineer, I did some maths. The world death toll last time I checked based on WHO figures was just short of 8m worldwide. This over a two year period. 8M deaths is 1% of 1% of the world population. Put it another way. 99.99% did not perish. We are told the vacines saved lives. I dont believe this. In Ireland, 80% of the deaths were in the over 80s who had 3 underlying conditions at least. TB and HIV typically deaths combined typically is 2M per year or 4m over two years, but no media frenzie or vacine roll out for this. Flu itself typically kills 600K each year. These are WHO stats. Of greater concern and largly going unreported and uninvetigated, are the dramatic increases in weekly deaths over and above normal pre covid levels. In the UK, its averaging 1500 excess deaths per week. No figures available for Ireland. And if you think I'm spoofing simply Google Exccess weekly UK deaths Daily Telegraph and you'll find an article from some months ago on the subject. But let's stop talking Covid and start talking Kink. Its far more interesting and definitely more fun As an engineer you shouldn't be ignoring the fact that deaths were increasing exponentially and had reached over 1000 a day, this was reduced due to the lockdown and managed until the vaccine was available and administered. Thankfully the virus has mutated since and although more transmissible is less fatal. Maybe you can model the maths without lockdown ? It's already been done several times but try it yourself " The maths during the pandemic couldn't be done. The maths after two years tell the picture which can't be ignored. 99.99% of the world population survived. | |||
"The maths after two years tell the picture which can't be ignored. 99.99% of the world population survived. " Mainly due to lockdowns and vaccines. | |||
"As a species we constantly adapt and change. As for Covid it's pretty clear its not the devastating bug they thought it was or tried to convince us it was. As an engineer, I did some maths. The world death toll last time I checked based on WHO figures was just short of 8m worldwide. This over a two year period. 8M deaths is 1% of 1% of the world population. Put it another way. 99.99% did not perish. We are told the vacines saved lives. I dont believe this. In Ireland, 80% of the deaths were in the over 80s who had 3 underlying conditions at least. TB and HIV typically deaths combined typically is 2M per year or 4m over two years, but no media frenzie or vacine roll out for this. Flu itself typically kills 600K each year. These are WHO stats. Of greater concern and largly going unreported and uninvetigated, are the dramatic increases in weekly deaths over and above normal pre covid levels. In the UK, its averaging 1500 excess deaths per week. No figures available for Ireland. And if you think I'm spoofing simply Google Exccess weekly UK deaths Daily Telegraph and you'll find an article from some months ago on the subject. But let's stop talking Covid and start talking Kink. Its far more interesting and definitely more fun As an engineer you shouldn't be ignoring the fact that deaths were increasing exponentially and had reached over 1000 a day, this was reduced due to the lockdown and managed until the vaccine was available and administered. Thankfully the virus has mutated since and although more transmissible is less fatal. Maybe you can model the maths without lockdown ? It's already been done several times but try it yourself " Are we trying for a legit modelling or one of the patented "SAGE- the sky is falling OMG!!!" type deals? Lockdown and its effects will over the long term cause more death and suffering than covid ever would have. "Lockdown" is directly responsible for 3 suicides and 5 buisnesses that have never recovered, just within my friends circle. Thats 8 families that are just devestated in a small circle alone. I'm betting a lot of people have similar stories. Yet covid barely gave anyone in that same group more than a miserable few days in bed, if that. Regardless of vaccine status, the outcome didn't vary much. | |||
"As a species we constantly adapt and change. As for Covid it's pretty clear its not the devastating bug they thought it was or tried to convince us it was. As an engineer, I did some maths. The world death toll last time I checked based on WHO figures was just short of 8m worldwide. This over a two year period. 8M deaths is 1% of 1% of the world population. Put it another way. 99.99% did not perish. We are told the vacines saved lives. I dont believe this. In Ireland, 80% of the deaths were in the over 80s who had 3 underlying conditions at least. TB and HIV typically deaths combined typically is 2M per year or 4m over two years, but no media frenzie or vacine roll out for this. Flu itself typically kills 600K each year. These are WHO stats. Of greater concern and largly going unreported and uninvetigated, are the dramatic increases in weekly deaths over and above normal pre covid levels. In the UK, its averaging 1500 excess deaths per week. No figures available for Ireland. And if you think I'm spoofing simply Google Exccess weekly UK deaths Daily Telegraph and you'll find an article from some months ago on the subject. But let's stop talking Covid and start talking Kink. Its far more interesting and definitely more fun As an engineer you shouldn't be ignoring the fact that deaths were increasing exponentially and had reached over 1000 a day, this was reduced due to the lockdown and managed until the vaccine was available and administered. Thankfully the virus has mutated since and although more transmissible is less fatal. Maybe you can model the maths without lockdown ? It's already been done several times but try it yourself Are we trying for a legit modelling or one of the patented "SAGE- the sky is falling OMG!!!" type deals? Lockdown and its effects will over the long term cause more death and suffering than covid ever would have. "Lockdown" is directly responsible for 3 suicides and 5 buisnesses that have never recovered, just within my friends circle. Thats 8 families that are just devestated in a small circle alone. I'm betting a lot of people have similar stories. Yet covid barely gave anyone in that same group more than a miserable few days in bed, if that. Regardless of vaccine status, the outcome didn't vary much. " The statistics fundamentally do not agree with any point in your argument. Businesses going out business maybe the exception but I doubt many businesses would have remained untouched if we just let rip through the population untouched at the beginning. Only an idiot would believe that we could have remained fully open with no vaccine and no real treatment at the beginning. | |||
"As a species we constantly adapt and change. As for Covid it's pretty clear its not the devastating bug they thought it was or tried to convince us it was. As an engineer, I did some maths. The world death toll last time I checked based on WHO figures was just short of 8m worldwide. This over a two year period. 8M deaths is 1% of 1% of the world population. Put it another way. 99.99% did not perish. We are told the vacines saved lives. I dont believe this. In Ireland, 80% of the deaths were in the over 80s who had 3 underlying conditions at least. TB and HIV typically deaths combined typically is 2M per year or 4m over two years, but no media frenzie or vacine roll out for this. Flu itself typically kills 600K each year. These are WHO stats. Of greater concern and largly going unreported and uninvetigated, are the dramatic increases in weekly deaths over and above normal pre covid levels. In the UK, its averaging 1500 excess deaths per week. No figures available for Ireland. And if you think I'm spoofing simply Google Exccess weekly UK deaths Daily Telegraph and you'll find an article from some months ago on the subject. But let's stop talking Covid and start talking Kink. Its far more interesting and definitely more fun As an engineer you shouldn't be ignoring the fact that deaths were increasing exponentially and had reached over 1000 a day, this was reduced due to the lockdown and managed until the vaccine was available and administered. Thankfully the virus has mutated since and although more transmissible is less fatal. Maybe you can model the maths without lockdown ? It's already been done several times but try it yourself Are we trying for a legit modelling or one of the patented "SAGE- the sky is falling OMG!!!" type deals? Lockdown and its effects will over the long term cause more death and suffering than covid ever would have. "Lockdown" is directly responsible for 3 suicides and 5 buisnesses that have never recovered, just within my friends circle. Thats 8 families that are just devestated in a small circle alone. I'm betting a lot of people have similar stories. Yet covid barely gave anyone in that same group more than a miserable few days in bed, if that. Regardless of vaccine status, the outcome didn't vary much. The statistics fundamentally do not agree with any point in your argument. Businesses going out business maybe the exception but I doubt many businesses would have remained untouched if we just let rip through the population untouched at the beginning. Only an idiot would believe that we could have remained fully open with no vaccine and no real treatment at the beginning." I'll be sure to pass that on to those who's family have lost either a family member or their livelihood. I'd like to see you make that argument to them face to face. I'm sure you can imagine where you'd be told to stick a lockdown 
As for the stats, you can argue with stats til the cows come home. They mean little to people's experience throughout. My experience is that covid didn't warrant a lockdown and it did little to help. I know no one who was ill enough to be hospitalised, yet personally know 3 people who killed themselves because of the restrictions/mental health help not being available/isolation. Call me selfish if you want but those lives mean more to me than a thousand faceless individuals. | |||
"As a species we constantly adapt and change. As for Covid it's pretty clear its not the devastating bug they thought it was or tried to convince us it was. As an engineer, I did some maths. The world death toll last time I checked based on WHO figures was just short of 8m worldwide. This over a two year period. 8M deaths is 1% of 1% of the world population. Put it another way. 99.99% did not perish. We are told the vacines saved lives. I dont believe this. In Ireland, 80% of the deaths were in the over 80s who had 3 underlying conditions at least. TB and HIV typically deaths combined typically is 2M per year or 4m over two years, but no media frenzie or vacine roll out for this. Flu itself typically kills 600K each year. These are WHO stats. Of greater concern and largly going unreported and uninvetigated, are the dramatic increases in weekly deaths over and above normal pre covid levels. In the UK, its averaging 1500 excess deaths per week. No figures available for Ireland. And if you think I'm spoofing simply Google Exccess weekly UK deaths Daily Telegraph and you'll find an article from some months ago on the subject. But let's stop talking Covid and start talking Kink. Its far more interesting and definitely more fun As an engineer you shouldn't be ignoring the fact that deaths were increasing exponentially and had reached over 1000 a day, this was reduced due to the lockdown and managed until the vaccine was available and administered. Thankfully the virus has mutated since and although more transmissible is less fatal. Maybe you can model the maths without lockdown ? It's already been done several times but try it yourself Are we trying for a legit modelling or one of the patented "SAGE- the sky is falling OMG!!!" type deals? Lockdown and its effects will over the long term cause more death and suffering than covid ever would have. "Lockdown" is directly responsible for 3 suicides and 5 buisnesses that have never recovered, just within my friends circle. Thats 8 families that are just devestated in a small circle alone. I'm betting a lot of people have similar stories. Yet covid barely gave anyone in that same group more than a miserable few days in bed, if that. Regardless of vaccine status, the outcome didn't vary much. " Strategies should be evidence led and, at the beginning, we had little evidence, apart from crises, like the devastation of health services and the population in Italy. Apart from your anecdotes, there's little that points to research evidence. Lockdowns from March 2020 were late, based on the evidence. They helped to save lives and prevent the NHS from total overwhelm, including keeping other services open, to an extent. Restrictions are sensible, whilst other services are prepared, such as treatments and vaccines. That the government were fairly irresponsible and likely caused thousands of deaths and serious illness, due to poor decisions and respinses, is a tragic aspect of that episode. We get the muppets, sociopaths etc that we vote for. | |||
"So it seems to be accepted that we are living with Covid now. My questions are - how can we live with a virus unless we have adapted ( genetically or pharmaceutical intervention) to the virus? My answer yes with mortality( vaccines) but not morbidity ( LC) How can we adapt to this virus unless we have evolved to adapt to this virus? Darwin would suggest this takes a few generations. And yet we seem to think we have achieved it in 2 years. Discuss. It's a virus. We live with flu every year. Nothing new." very true blown out of all proportions | |||
"As a species we constantly adapt and change. As for Covid it's pretty clear its not the devastating bug they thought it was or tried to convince us it was. As an engineer, I did some maths. The world death toll last time I checked based on WHO figures was just short of 8m worldwide. This over a two year period. 8M deaths is 1% of 1% of the world population. Put it another way. 99.99% did not perish. We are told the vacines saved lives. I dont believe this. In Ireland, 80% of the deaths were in the over 80s who had 3 underlying conditions at least. TB and HIV typically deaths combined typically is 2M per year or 4m over two years, but no media frenzie or vacine roll out for this. Flu itself typically kills 600K each year. These are WHO stats. Of greater concern and largly going unreported and uninvetigated, are the dramatic increases in weekly deaths over and above normal pre covid levels. In the UK, its averaging 1500 excess deaths per week. No figures available for Ireland. And if you think I'm spoofing simply Google Exccess weekly UK deaths Daily Telegraph and you'll find an article from some months ago on the subject. But let's stop talking Covid and start talking Kink. Its far more interesting and definitely more fun As an engineer you shouldn't be ignoring the fact that deaths were increasing exponentially and had reached over 1000 a day, this was reduced due to the lockdown and managed until the vaccine was available and administered. Thankfully the virus has mutated since and although more transmissible is less fatal. Maybe you can model the maths without lockdown ? It's already been done several times but try it yourself Are we trying for a legit modelling or one of the patented "SAGE- the sky is falling OMG!!!" type deals? Lockdown and its effects will over the long term cause more death and suffering than covid ever would have. "Lockdown" is directly responsible for 3 suicides and 5 buisnesses that have never recovered, just within my friends circle. Thats 8 families that are just devestated in a small circle alone. I'm betting a lot of people have similar stories. Yet covid barely gave anyone in that same group more than a miserable few days in bed, if that. Regardless of vaccine status, the outcome didn't vary much. Strategies should be evidence led and, at the beginning, we had little evidence, apart from crises, like the devastation of health services and the population in Italy. Apart from your anecdotes, there's little that points to research evidence. Lockdowns from March 2020 were late, based on the evidence. They helped to save lives and prevent the NHS from total overwhelm, including keeping other services open, to an extent. Restrictions are sensible, whilst other services are prepared, such as treatments and vaccines. That the government were fairly irresponsible and likely caused thousands of deaths and serious illness, due to poor decisions and respinses, is a tragic aspect of that episode. We get the muppets, sociopaths etc that we vote for. " Evidence led? Like every SAGE model that was massively wrong throughout? | |||
"As a species we constantly adapt and change. As for Covid it's pretty clear its not the devastating bug they thought it was or tried to convince us it was. As an engineer, I did some maths. The world death toll last time I checked based on WHO figures was just short of 8m worldwide. This over a two year period. 8M deaths is 1% of 1% of the world population. Put it another way. 99.99% did not perish. We are told the vacines saved lives. I dont believe this. In Ireland, 80% of the deaths were in the over 80s who had 3 underlying conditions at least. TB and HIV typically deaths combined typically is 2M per year or 4m over two years, but no media frenzie or vacine roll out for this. Flu itself typically kills 600K each year. These are WHO stats. Of greater concern and largly going unreported and uninvetigated, are the dramatic increases in weekly deaths over and above normal pre covid levels. In the UK, its averaging 1500 excess deaths per week. No figures available for Ireland. And if you think I'm spoofing simply Google Exccess weekly UK deaths Daily Telegraph and you'll find an article from some months ago on the subject. But let's stop talking Covid and start talking Kink. Its far more interesting and definitely more fun As an engineer you shouldn't be ignoring the fact that deaths were increasing exponentially and had reached over 1000 a day, this was reduced due to the lockdown and managed until the vaccine was available and administered. Thankfully the virus has mutated since and although more transmissible is less fatal. Maybe you can model the maths without lockdown ? It's already been done several times but try it yourself Are we trying for a legit modelling or one of the patented "SAGE- the sky is falling OMG!!!" type deals? Lockdown and its effects will over the long term cause more death and suffering than covid ever would have. "Lockdown" is directly responsible for 3 suicides and 5 buisnesses that have never recovered, just within my friends circle. Thats 8 families that are just devestated in a small circle alone. I'm betting a lot of people have similar stories. Yet covid barely gave anyone in that same group more than a miserable few days in bed, if that. Regardless of vaccine status, the outcome didn't vary much. Strategies should be evidence led and, at the beginning, we had little evidence, apart from crises, like the devastation of health services and the population in Italy. Apart from your anecdotes, there's little that points to research evidence. Lockdowns from March 2020 were late, based on the evidence. They helped to save lives and prevent the NHS from total overwhelm, including keeping other services open, to an extent. Restrictions are sensible, whilst other services are prepared, such as treatments and vaccines. That the government were fairly irresponsible and likely caused thousands of deaths and serious illness, due to poor decisions and respinses, is a tragic aspect of that episode. We get the muppets, sociopaths etc that we vote for. Evidence led? Like every SAGE model that was massively wrong throughout?" They gave multiple models, at least 30 generally, each time. Different models for different interventions. The headlines mainly concentrated on the worse case scenario, ie no intervention at all no masks no lockdown no vaccines etc, which of course never happened. The models were generally pretty good on the whole. | |||
"As a species we constantly adapt and change. As for Covid it's pretty clear its not the devastating bug they thought it was or tried to convince us it was. As an engineer, I did some maths. The world death toll last time I checked based on WHO figures was just short of 8m worldwide. This over a two year period. 8M deaths is 1% of 1% of the world population. Put it another way. 99.99% did not perish. We are told the vacines saved lives. I dont believe this. In Ireland, 80% of the deaths were in the over 80s who had 3 underlying conditions at least. TB and HIV typically deaths combined typically is 2M per year or 4m over two years, but no media frenzie or vacine roll out for this. Flu itself typically kills 600K each year. These are WHO stats. Of greater concern and largly going unreported and uninvetigated, are the dramatic increases in weekly deaths over and above normal pre covid levels. In the UK, its averaging 1500 excess deaths per week. No figures available for Ireland. And if you think I'm spoofing simply Google Exccess weekly UK deaths Daily Telegraph and you'll find an article from some months ago on the subject. But let's stop talking Covid and start talking Kink. Its far more interesting and definitely more fun As an engineer you shouldn't be ignoring the fact that deaths were increasing exponentially and had reached over 1000 a day, this was reduced due to the lockdown and managed until the vaccine was available and administered. Thankfully the virus has mutated since and although more transmissible is less fatal. Maybe you can model the maths without lockdown ? It's already been done several times but try it yourself Are we trying for a legit modelling or one of the patented "SAGE- the sky is falling OMG!!!" type deals? Lockdown and its effects will over the long term cause more death and suffering than covid ever would have. "Lockdown" is directly responsible for 3 suicides and 5 buisnesses that have never recovered, just within my friends circle. Thats 8 families that are just devestated in a small circle alone. I'm betting a lot of people have similar stories. Yet covid barely gave anyone in that same group more than a miserable few days in bed, if that. Regardless of vaccine status, the outcome didn't vary much. Strategies should be evidence led and, at the beginning, we had little evidence, apart from crises, like the devastation of health services and the population in Italy. Apart from your anecdotes, there's little that points to research evidence. Lockdowns from March 2020 were late, based on the evidence. They helped to save lives and prevent the NHS from total overwhelm, including keeping other services open, to an extent. Restrictions are sensible, whilst other services are prepared, such as treatments and vaccines. That the government were fairly irresponsible and likely caused thousands of deaths and serious illness, due to poor decisions and respinses, is a tragic aspect of that episode. We get the muppets, sociopaths etc that we vote for. Evidence led? Like every SAGE model that was massively wrong throughout? They gave multiple models, at least 30 generally, each time. Different models for different interventions. The headlines mainly concentrated on the worse case scenario, ie no intervention at all no masks no lockdown no vaccines etc, which of course never happened. The models were generally pretty good on the whole. " I think the history has been rewritten to make it seem like science is unnecessary and doesn't work. Even though we're all old enough to actually remember it. I also think this story we're telling ourselves will be poor preparation for any future risks. | |||
"As a species we constantly adapt and change. As for Covid it's pretty clear its not the devastating bug they thought it was or tried to convince us it was. As an engineer, I did some maths. The world death toll last time I checked based on WHO figures was just short of 8m worldwide. This over a two year period. 8M deaths is 1% of 1% of the world population. Put it another way. 99.99% did not perish. We are told the vacines saved lives. I dont believe this. In Ireland, 80% of the deaths were in the over 80s who had 3 underlying conditions at least. TB and HIV typically deaths combined typically is 2M per year or 4m over two years, but no media frenzie or vacine roll out for this. Flu itself typically kills 600K each year. These are WHO stats. Of greater concern and largly going unreported and uninvetigated, are the dramatic increases in weekly deaths over and above normal pre covid levels. In the UK, its averaging 1500 excess deaths per week. No figures available for Ireland. And if you think I'm spoofing simply Google Exccess weekly UK deaths Daily Telegraph and you'll find an article from some months ago on the subject. But let's stop talking Covid and start talking Kink. Its far more interesting and definitely more fun As an engineer you shouldn't be ignoring the fact that deaths were increasing exponentially and had reached over 1000 a day, this was reduced due to the lockdown and managed until the vaccine was available and administered. Thankfully the virus has mutated since and although more transmissible is less fatal. Maybe you can model the maths without lockdown ? It's already been done several times but try it yourself Are we trying for a legit modelling or one of the patented "SAGE- the sky is falling OMG!!!" type deals? Lockdown and its effects will over the long term cause more death and suffering than covid ever would have. "Lockdown" is directly responsible for 3 suicides and 5 buisnesses that have never recovered, just within my friends circle. Thats 8 families that are just devestated in a small circle alone. I'm betting a lot of people have similar stories. Yet covid barely gave anyone in that same group more than a miserable few days in bed, if that. Regardless of vaccine status, the outcome didn't vary much. Strategies should be evidence led and, at the beginning, we had little evidence, apart from crises, like the devastation of health services and the population in Italy. Apart from your anecdotes, there's little that points to research evidence. Lockdowns from March 2020 were late, based on the evidence. They helped to save lives and prevent the NHS from total overwhelm, including keeping other services open, to an extent. Restrictions are sensible, whilst other services are prepared, such as treatments and vaccines. That the government were fairly irresponsible and likely caused thousands of deaths and serious illness, due to poor decisions and respinses, is a tragic aspect of that episode. We get the muppets, sociopaths etc that we vote for. Evidence led? Like every SAGE model that was massively wrong throughout?" Amazingly, the fact that preventative measures were taken due to the warnings of the models, the actual outcome was somewhat mitigated. Like if you're having it off with a married woman and you hear that her husband is going to be home from prison, heeding the warning will save you getting a good slapping. But you wouldn't then moan that you stayed away unnecessarily. Changing our behaviour based upon projections of future outcomes is one of the things that hitherto made the human race relatively successful amongst the animal kingdom. Actions of many people since the emergence of global pandemic threats though make me think that humanity is probably now becoming somewhat less intelligent overall than the average slime mould. | |||
"As a species we constantly adapt and change. As for Covid it's pretty clear its not the devastating bug they thought it was or tried to convince us it was. As an engineer, I did some maths. The world death toll last time I checked based on WHO figures was just short of 8m worldwide. This over a two year period. 8M deaths is 1% of 1% of the world population. Put it another way. 99.99% did not perish. We are told the vacines saved lives. I dont believe this. In Ireland, 80% of the deaths were in the over 80s who had 3 underlying conditions at least. TB and HIV typically deaths combined typically is 2M per year or 4m over two years, but no media frenzie or vacine roll out for this. Flu itself typically kills 600K each year. These are WHO stats. Of greater concern and largly going unreported and uninvetigated, are the dramatic increases in weekly deaths over and above normal pre covid levels. In the UK, its averaging 1500 excess deaths per week. No figures available for Ireland. And if you think I'm spoofing simply Google Exccess weekly UK deaths Daily Telegraph and you'll find an article from some months ago on the subject. But let's stop talking Covid and start talking Kink. Its far more interesting and definitely more fun As an engineer you shouldn't be ignoring the fact that deaths were increasing exponentially and had reached over 1000 a day, this was reduced due to the lockdown and managed until the vaccine was available and administered. Thankfully the virus has mutated since and although more transmissible is less fatal. Maybe you can model the maths without lockdown ? It's already been done several times but try it yourself Are we trying for a legit modelling or one of the patented "SAGE- the sky is falling OMG!!!" type deals? Lockdown and its effects will over the long term cause more death and suffering than covid ever would have. "Lockdown" is directly responsible for 3 suicides and 5 buisnesses that have never recovered, just within my friends circle. Thats 8 families that are just devestated in a small circle alone. I'm betting a lot of people have similar stories. Yet covid barely gave anyone in that same group more than a miserable few days in bed, if that. Regardless of vaccine status, the outcome didn't vary much. Strategies should be evidence led and, at the beginning, we had little evidence, apart from crises, like the devastation of health services and the population in Italy. Apart from your anecdotes, there's little that points to research evidence. Lockdowns from March 2020 were late, based on the evidence. They helped to save lives and prevent the NHS from total overwhelm, including keeping other services open, to an extent. Restrictions are sensible, whilst other services are prepared, such as treatments and vaccines. That the government were fairly irresponsible and likely caused thousands of deaths and serious illness, due to poor decisions and respinses, is a tragic aspect of that episode. We get the muppets, sociopaths etc that we vote for. Evidence led? Like every SAGE model that was massively wrong throughout?" You presumably studied statistical modelling and the many published models | |||
"As a species we constantly adapt and change. As for Covid it's pretty clear its not the devastating bug they thought it was or tried to convince us it was. As an engineer, I did some maths. The world death toll last time I checked based on WHO figures was just short of 8m worldwide. This over a two year period. 8M deaths is 1% of 1% of the world population. Put it another way. 99.99% did not perish. We are told the vacines saved lives. I dont believe this. In Ireland, 80% of the deaths were in the over 80s who had 3 underlying conditions at least. TB and HIV typically deaths combined typically is 2M per year or 4m over two years, but no media frenzie or vacine roll out for this. Flu itself typically kills 600K each year. These are WHO stats. Of greater concern and largly going unreported and uninvetigated, are the dramatic increases in weekly deaths over and above normal pre covid levels. In the UK, its averaging 1500 excess deaths per week. No figures available for Ireland. And if you think I'm spoofing simply Google Exccess weekly UK deaths Daily Telegraph and you'll find an article from some months ago on the subject. But let's stop talking Covid and start talking Kink. Its far more interesting and definitely more fun As an engineer you shouldn't be ignoring the fact that deaths were increasing exponentially and had reached over 1000 a day, this was reduced due to the lockdown and managed until the vaccine was available and administered. Thankfully the virus has mutated since and although more transmissible is less fatal. Maybe you can model the maths without lockdown ? It's already been done several times but try it yourself Are we trying for a legit modelling or one of the patented "SAGE- the sky is falling OMG!!!" type deals? Lockdown and its effects will over the long term cause more death and suffering than covid ever would have. "Lockdown" is directly responsible for 3 suicides and 5 buisnesses that have never recovered, just within my friends circle. Thats 8 families that are just devestated in a small circle alone. I'm betting a lot of people have similar stories. Yet covid barely gave anyone in that same group more than a miserable few days in bed, if that. Regardless of vaccine status, the outcome didn't vary much. Strategies should be evidence led and, at the beginning, we had little evidence, apart from crises, like the devastation of health services and the population in Italy. Apart from your anecdotes, there's little that points to research evidence. Lockdowns from March 2020 were late, based on the evidence. They helped to save lives and prevent the NHS from total overwhelm, including keeping other services open, to an extent. Restrictions are sensible, whilst other services are prepared, such as treatments and vaccines. That the government were fairly irresponsible and likely caused thousands of deaths and serious illness, due to poor decisions and respinses, is a tragic aspect of that episode. We get the muppets, sociopaths etc that we vote for. Evidence led? Like every SAGE model that was massively wrong throughout? You presumably studied statistical modelling and the many published models "Sure did, I got my degree same place all you virologist's on here got yours | |||
"As a species we constantly adapt and change. As for Covid it's pretty clear its not the devastating bug they thought it was or tried to convince us it was. As an engineer, I did some maths. The world death toll last time I checked based on WHO figures was just short of 8m worldwide. This over a two year period. 8M deaths is 1% of 1% of the world population. Put it another way. 99.99% did not perish. We are told the vacines saved lives. I dont believe this. In Ireland, 80% of the deaths were in the over 80s who had 3 underlying conditions at least. TB and HIV typically deaths combined typically is 2M per year or 4m over two years, but no media frenzie or vacine roll out for this. Flu itself typically kills 600K each year. These are WHO stats. Of greater concern and largly going unreported and uninvetigated, are the dramatic increases in weekly deaths over and above normal pre covid levels. In the UK, its averaging 1500 excess deaths per week. No figures available for Ireland. And if you think I'm spoofing simply Google Exccess weekly UK deaths Daily Telegraph and you'll find an article from some months ago on the subject. But let's stop talking Covid and start talking Kink. Its far more interesting and definitely more fun As an engineer you shouldn't be ignoring the fact that deaths were increasing exponentially and had reached over 1000 a day, this was reduced due to the lockdown and managed until the vaccine was available and administered. Thankfully the virus has mutated since and although more transmissible is less fatal. Maybe you can model the maths without lockdown ? It's already been done several times but try it yourself Are we trying for a legit modelling or one of the patented "SAGE- the sky is falling OMG!!!" type deals? Lockdown and its effects will over the long term cause more death and suffering than covid ever would have. "Lockdown" is directly responsible for 3 suicides and 5 buisnesses that have never recovered, just within my friends circle. Thats 8 families that are just devestated in a small circle alone. I'm betting a lot of people have similar stories. Yet covid barely gave anyone in that same group more than a miserable few days in bed, if that. Regardless of vaccine status, the outcome didn't vary much. The statistics fundamentally do not agree with any point in your argument. Businesses going out business maybe the exception but I doubt many businesses would have remained untouched if we just let rip through the population untouched at the beginning. Only an idiot would believe that we could have remained fully open with no vaccine and no real treatment at the beginning." The irony is that we are in a similar position to the first wave- but now it’s a much slower spread of morbidity through the population. So the government is a much better position to see the impact of LC gradually increase. We have 2.3 million affected by LC- starting to impact the workforce and businesses. These numbers will increase linearly with each successive new wave- expecting 3-4 waves this year. Since we have not reach herd immunity- can we afford to ‘live’ and let Covid keep ripping through the population- simple economics say no. | |||
"As a species we constantly adapt and change. As for Covid it's pretty clear its not the devastating bug they thought it was or tried to convince us it was. As an engineer, I did some maths. The world death toll last time I checked based on WHO figures was just short of 8m worldwide. This over a two year period. 8M deaths is 1% of 1% of the world population. Put it another way. 99.99% did not perish. We are told the vacines saved lives. I dont believe this. In Ireland, 80% of the deaths were in the over 80s who had 3 underlying conditions at least. TB and HIV typically deaths combined typically is 2M per year or 4m over two years, but no media frenzie or vacine roll out for this. Flu itself typically kills 600K each year. These are WHO stats. Of greater concern and largly going unreported and uninvetigated, are the dramatic increases in weekly deaths over and above normal pre covid levels. In the UK, its averaging 1500 excess deaths per week. No figures available for Ireland. And if you think I'm spoofing simply Google Exccess weekly UK deaths Daily Telegraph and you'll find an article from some months ago on the subject. But let's stop talking Covid and start talking Kink. Its far more interesting and definitely more fun As an engineer you shouldn't be ignoring the fact that deaths were increasing exponentially and had reached over 1000 a day, this was reduced due to the lockdown and managed until the vaccine was available and administered. Thankfully the virus has mutated since and although more transmissible is less fatal. Maybe you can model the maths without lockdown ? It's already been done several times but try it yourself Are we trying for a legit modelling or one of the patented "SAGE- the sky is falling OMG!!!" type deals? Lockdown and its effects will over the long term cause more death and suffering than covid ever would have. "Lockdown" is directly responsible for 3 suicides and 5 buisnesses that have never recovered, just within my friends circle. Thats 8 families that are just devestated in a small circle alone. I'm betting a lot of people have similar stories. Yet covid barely gave anyone in that same group more than a miserable few days in bed, if that. Regardless of vaccine status, the outcome didn't vary much. The statistics fundamentally do not agree with any point in your argument. Businesses going out business maybe the exception but I doubt many businesses would have remained untouched if we just let rip through the population untouched at the beginning. Only an idiot would believe that we could have remained fully open with no vaccine and no real treatment at the beginning. The irony is that we are in a similar position to the first wave- but now it’s a much slower spread of morbidity through the population. So the government is a much better position to see the impact of LC gradually increase. We have 2.3 million affected by LC- starting to impact the workforce and businesses. These numbers will increase linearly with each successive new wave- expecting 3-4 waves this year. Since we have not reach herd immunity- can we afford to ‘live’ and let Covid keep ripping through the population- simple economics say no. " The way things are looking, there is no such thing as herd immunity with this virus. | |||
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"We haven't and all of these "new" viruses RVS etc are all most likely just new strains of said virus but Gov.uk don't want us to know as they can't afford another lockdown." A lockdown is not required just better use of NPI’s until better therapeutics are developed | |||
