FabSwingers.com > Forums > Virus > Russian disinformation and cyber warfare
Russian disinformation and cyber warfare
Jump to: Newest in thread
| |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"The wonders of "freedom" and technology and libertarianism. I'm far from convinced that our so called freedoms are to our communal benefits. The biggest danger is where people are manipulated by those with unknown or hidden agendas. At least if you know someone's agenda you can be forwarned. " Agreed. It's clear, for example, that the moderation policies of major social media networks are tailored to American norms, particularly imagined through the eyes of people in tech on the west coast of the US. Are these values we share, in the UK, or would we imagine them differently? To what extent does the enforcement of (these people's image of) US norms change discourse in the UK or elsewhere? Is this to our benefit? | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Just been thinking about the overwhelming exercise in spreading disinformation during the pandemic, particularly via the internet and social media channels. It is well known that a huge amount of this originates from Russian sources and is probably state sponsored. Even our very own site has been targeted by this, there are some well known profiles whose voices could only be sensibly explained as being bad actors working to cause disagreement and social unrest, and to disrupt efforts in limitation and control of the infection spreading. All this disinformation has undoubtedly worsened the global crisis, increased the death toll, added hundreds of billions to the economic costs. Whether the spreading of the covid virus was just an unfortunate natural event, or originating in an accident at some medical facility, or a deliberate act of viral warfare, the weaponisation of the pandemic by hostile cyber actors is something that we can be certain of. Should our governments be doing more to educate the people that such cyber warfare is actual warfare, with real victims? Should we be rooting out and taking measures against those who are contributing to the spread of these dangerous untruths? Should there be more controls against bot accounts, apologists and promoters of hostile governments? Does the lack of action give some indication of the levels of infiltration of hostile actors into our own population and even into our own government? Is there any way to fight back, or has the disinformation war already been lost?" It's a bit too much of a task to get some folks to wear a tiny piece of thin paper in front of their mouth or God forbid, wash their hands. Guarding against cyber warfare from governments or their agents, maybe a bridge too far but feel free to try. Good luck, see you in a bar after cyber armageddon.  | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Facebook twitter whatsapp all American companies and were the b crap comes from who is allowing this stuff to be spread? " Well Facebook and Whatsapp are the same company. But both Meta and Twitter may have started in the US but they have outgrown "US company". Their only allegiance is to Capitalism and their Shareholders | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"The wonders of "freedom" and technology and libertarianism. I'm far from convinced that our so called freedoms are to our communal benefits. The biggest danger is where people are manipulated by those with unknown or hidden agendas. At least if you know someone's agenda you can be forwarned. Agreed. It's clear, for example, that the moderation policies of major social media networks are tailored to American norms, particularly imagined through the eyes of people in tech on the west coast of the US. Are these values we share, in the UK, or would we imagine them differently? To what extent does the enforcement of (these people's image of) US norms change discourse in the UK or elsewhere? Is this to our benefit?" Wonder of we had a "national detox week" where all media were disabled online for a week it would help reset peoples understanding of what diet they choose to put into their brains. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Nothing to do with Russia then, which is what I was attempting to point out." There's significant documentary evidence of Russian attempts to abuse the systems we have in place. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
The incredible weight loss plan may just work as once you've sent the cash you'll have no money left to buy any food.
Sad really, we all fall for it in one way or the other.
Even a rare weekday off work you are bombarded by TV adverts showing very soon you'll be dead or need a crane to put you in the bath but fear not, give us all your cash and you will be rewarded with a free pen. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"The wonders of "freedom" and technology and libertarianism. I'm far from convinced that our so called freedoms are to our communal benefits. The biggest danger is where people are manipulated by those with unknown or hidden agendas. At least if you know someone's agenda you can be forwarned. Agreed. It's clear, for example, that the moderation policies of major social media networks are tailored to American norms, particularly imagined through the eyes of people in tech on the west coast of the US. Are these values we share, in the UK, or would we imagine them differently? To what extent does the enforcement of (these people's image of) US norms change discourse in the UK or elsewhere? Is this to our benefit? Wonder of we had a "national detox week" where all media were disabled online for a week it would help reset peoples understanding of what diet they choose to put into their brains. " I don't know what the answer is. I think individual detox might be helpful, but I suspect wider answers might also be required | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Nothing to do with Russia then, which is what I was attempting to point out." My point was that if it made more long term financial sense for them to do something they would side with and/or serve any master in that pursuit... including Russia. The question is whether that would indeed be a viable theory. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"The wonders of "freedom" and technology and libertarianism. I'm far from convinced that our so called freedoms are to our communal benefits. The biggest danger is where people are manipulated by those with unknown or hidden agendas. At least if you know someone's agenda you can be forwarned. Agreed. It's clear, for example, that the moderation policies of major social media networks are tailored to American norms, particularly imagined through the eyes of people in tech on the west coast of the US. Are these values we share, in the UK, or would we imagine them differently? To what extent does the enforcement of (these people's image of) US norms change discourse in the UK or elsewhere? Is this to our benefit? Wonder of we had a "national detox week" where all media were disabled online for a week it would help reset peoples understanding of what diet they choose to put into their brains. I don't know what the answer is. I think individual detox might be helpful, but I suspect wider answers might also be required " Agreed. I think "we" are too weak to do what's best for us though. Which is ultimately censoring of what is put out, where, who and how. Laws and enforcement to rigorously police them and putting the responsibility directly into the platform for what they serve up along with colossal fines for disseminating what is against those laws. Self regulation is no regulation. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"The wonders of "freedom" and technology and libertarianism. I'm far from convinced that our so called freedoms are to our communal benefits. The biggest danger is where people are manipulated by those with unknown or hidden agendas. At least if you know someone's agenda you can be forwarned. Agreed. It's clear, for example, that the moderation policies of major social media networks are tailored to American norms, particularly imagined through the eyes of people in tech on the west coast of the US. Are these values we share, in the UK, or would we imagine them differently? To what extent does the enforcement of (these people's image of) US norms change discourse in the UK or elsewhere? Is this to our benefit? Wonder of we had a "national detox week" where all media were disabled online for a week it would help reset peoples understanding of what diet they choose to put into their brains. I don't know what the answer is. I think individual detox might be helpful, but I suspect wider answers might also be required Agreed. I think "we" are too weak to do what's best for us though. Which is ultimately censoring of what is put out, where, who and how. Laws and enforcement to rigorously police them and putting the responsibility directly into the platform for what they serve up along with colossal fines for disseminating what is against those laws. Self regulation is no regulation. " How do we regulate without giving too much power to government, and/or stop them abusing it? | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Nothing to do with Russia then, which is what I was attempting to point out. There's significant documentary evidence of Russian attempts to abuse the systems we have in place. " A system. they are a money making ventures started by venture capitalists who could not give 2 hoots if people are put under spells cast on their money making venture. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"The wonders of "freedom" and technology and libertarianism. I'm far from convinced that our so called freedoms are to our communal benefits. The biggest danger is where people are manipulated by those with unknown or hidden agendas. At least if you know someone's agenda you can be forwarned. Agreed. It's clear, for example, that the moderation policies of major social media networks are tailored to American norms, particularly imagined through the eyes of people in tech on the west coast of the US. Are these values we share, in the UK, or would we imagine them differently? To what extent does the enforcement of (these people's image of) US norms change discourse in the UK or elsewhere? Is this to our benefit? Wonder of we had a "national detox week" where all media were disabled online for a week it would help reset peoples understanding of what diet they choose to put into their brains. I don't know what the answer is. I think individual detox might be helpful, but I suspect wider answers might also be required Agreed. I think "we" are too weak to do what's best for us though. Which is ultimately censoring of what is put out, where, who and how. Laws and enforcement to rigorously police them and putting the responsibility directly into the platform for what they serve up along with colossal fines for disseminating what is against those laws. Self regulation is no regulation. How do we regulate without giving too much power to government, and/or stop them abusing it?" That's the risk isn't it? However I'm sure where there's a will etc. And the trade off of course is improving quality over censorship and of course there are risks with that, that a small minority may feel they are being censored. But much of the poison we see starts its life in media, remember when it was forbidden to report on the ira in the 70s... Depriving them the oxygen of publicity. You have to give that power to someone / something, but that is achievable. X party, politically independent organisation, properly funded, properly policed. Its very do able. There's just no will to take on the media and tech gods. Look whta happened with Facebook i think in Australia. More of that is needed. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"The wonders of "freedom" and technology and libertarianism. I'm far from convinced that our so called freedoms are to our communal benefits. The biggest danger is where people are manipulated by those with unknown or hidden agendas. At least if you know someone's agenda you can be forwarned. Agreed. It's clear, for example, that the moderation policies of major social media networks are tailored to American norms, particularly imagined through the eyes of people in tech on the west coast of the US. Are these values we share, in the UK, or would we imagine them differently? To what extent does the enforcement of (these people's image of) US norms change discourse in the UK or elsewhere? Is this to our benefit? Wonder of we had a "national detox week" where all media were disabled online for a week it would help reset peoples understanding of what diet they choose to put into their brains. I don't know what the answer is. I think individual detox might be helpful, but I suspect wider answers might also be required Agreed. I think "we" are too weak to do what's best for us though. Which is ultimately censoring of what is put out, where, who and how. Laws and enforcement to rigorously police them and putting the responsibility directly into the platform for what they serve up along with colossal fines for disseminating what is against those laws. Self regulation is no regulation. How do we regulate without giving too much power to government, and/or stop them abusing it? That's the risk isn't it? However I'm sure where there's a will etc. And the trade off of course is improving quality over censorship and of course there are risks with that, that a small minority may feel they are being censored. But much of the poison we see starts its life in media, remember when it was forbidden to report on the ira in the 70s... Depriving them the oxygen of publicity. You have to give that power to someone / something, but that is achievable. X party, politically independent organisation, properly funded, properly policed. Its very do able. There's just no will to take on the media and tech gods. Look whta happened with Facebook i think in Australia. More of that is needed. " We agree. I think it's surmountable, but I don't know how. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"The wonders of "freedom" and technology and libertarianism. I'm far from convinced that our so called freedoms are to our communal benefits. The biggest danger is where people are manipulated by those with unknown or hidden agendas. At least if you know someone's agenda you can be forwarned. Agreed. It's clear, for example, that the moderation policies of major social media networks are tailored to American norms, particularly imagined through the eyes of people in tech on the west coast of the US. Are these values we share, in the UK, or would we imagine them differently? To what extent does the enforcement of (these people's image of) US norms change discourse in the UK or elsewhere? Is this to our benefit? Wonder of we had a "national detox week" where all media were disabled online for a week it would help reset peoples understanding of what diet they choose to put into their brains. I don't know what the answer is. I think individual detox might be helpful, but I suspect wider answers might also be required Agreed. I think "we" are too weak to do what's best for us though. Which is ultimately censoring of what is put out, where, who and how. Laws and enforcement to rigorously police them and putting the responsibility directly into the platform for what they serve up along with colossal fines for disseminating what is against those laws. Self regulation is no regulation. How do we regulate without giving too much power to government, and/or stop them abusing it? That's the risk isn't it? However I'm sure where there's a will etc. And the trade off of course is improving quality over censorship and of course there are risks with that, that a small minority may feel they are being censored. But much of the poison we see starts its life in media, remember when it was forbidden to report on the ira in the 70s... Depriving them the oxygen of publicity. You have to give that power to someone / something, but that is achievable. X party, politically independent organisation, properly funded, properly policed. Its very do able. There's just no will to take on the media and tech gods. Look whta happened with Facebook i think in Australia. More of that is needed. We agree. I think it's surmountable, but I don't know how." Don't think anything will change. It takes effort and a will and its not there. Most folks are just too busy getting on with life, careers, mortgages, kids, schools, health, holidays, shopping trips etc etc to give any thought to media misinformation never mind shady government hacking. It's long known what we say and what we do is totally different, marketeers understand this and let rip and we lap it up. In the pub last week a conversation how frightening the hot weather around the world, what are people and governments doing she asked, lots of shrugs and shaking of heads, while she still runs her kids half a mile to school every morning in a range rover. Hypocritical, maybe, but me too. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Nothing to do with Russia then, which is what I was attempting to point out. There's significant documentary evidence of Russian attempts to abuse the systems we have in place. " I know first hand from someone who is on the front line in defending our national systems! Chinese and North Korea infiltrations are predominantly about gathering information. Russian attacks on our systems are far more numerous and with far more destructive intent! | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"The wonders of "freedom" and technology and libertarianism. I'm far from convinced that our so called freedoms are to our communal benefits. The biggest danger is where people are manipulated by those with unknown or hidden agendas. At least if you know someone's agenda you can be forwarned. Agreed. It's clear, for example, that the moderation policies of major social media networks are tailored to American norms, particularly imagined through the eyes of people in tech on the west coast of the US. Are these values we share, in the UK, or would we imagine them differently? To what extent does the enforcement of (these people's image of) US norms change discourse in the UK or elsewhere? Is this to our benefit? Wonder of we had a "national detox week" where all media were disabled online for a week it would help reset peoples understanding of what diet they choose to put into their brains. I don't know what the answer is. I think individual detox might be helpful, but I suspect wider answers might also be required Agreed. I think "we" are too weak to do what's best for us though. Which is ultimately censoring of what is put out, where, who and how. Laws and enforcement to rigorously police them and putting the responsibility directly into the platform for what they serve up along with colossal fines for disseminating what is against those laws. Self regulation is no regulation. How do we regulate without giving too much power to government, and/or stop them abusing it? That's the risk isn't it? However I'm sure where there's a will etc. And the trade off of course is improving quality over censorship and of course there are risks with that, that a small minority may feel they are being censored. But much of the poison we see starts its life in media, remember when it was forbidden to report on the ira in the 70s... Depriving them the oxygen of publicity. You have to give that power to someone / something, but that is achievable. X party, politically independent organisation, properly funded, properly policed. Its very do able. There's just no will to take on the media and tech gods. Look whta happened with Facebook i think in Australia. More of that is needed. We agree. I think it's surmountable, but I don't know how. Don't think anything will change. It takes effort and a will and its not there. Most folks are just too busy getting on with life, careers, mortgages, kids, schools, health, holidays, shopping trips etc etc to give any thought to media misinformation never mind shady government hacking. It's long known what we say and what we do is totally different, marketeers understand this and let rip and we lap it up. In the pub last week a conversation how frightening the hot weather around the world, what are people and governments doing she asked, lots of shrugs and shaking of heads, while she still runs her kids half a mile to school every morning in a range rover. Hypocritical, maybe, but me too. " Ok. Some people are thinking about these issues. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"You lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink." Depends on the water, Putin had been bathing in some of it... | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Just been thinking about the overwhelming exercise in spreading disinformation during the pandemic, particularly via the internet and social media channels. It is well known that a huge amount of this originates from Russian sources and is probably state sponsored. Even our very own site has been targeted by this, there are some well known profiles whose voices could only be sensibly explained as being bad actors working to cause disagreement and social unrest, and to disrupt efforts in limitation and control of the infection spreading. All this disinformation has undoubtedly worsened the global crisis, increased the death toll, added hundreds of billions to the economic costs. Whether the spreading of the covid virus was just an unfortunate natural event, or originating in an accident at some medical facility, or a deliberate act of viral warfare, the weaponisation of the pandemic by hostile cyber actors is something that we can be certain of. Should our governments be doing more to educate the people that such cyber warfare is actual warfare, with real victims? Should we be rooting out and taking measures against those who are contributing to the spread of these dangerous untruths? Should there be more controls against bot accounts, apologists and promoters of hostile governments? Does the lack of action give some indication of the levels of infiltration of hostile actors into our own population and even into our own government? Is there any way to fight back, or has the disinformation war already been lost?" Ukraine seem to be winning the propaganda war. Although I guess not in Russia? | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Just been thinking about the overwhelming exercise in spreading disinformation during the pandemic, particularly via the internet and social media channels. It is well known that a huge amount of this originates from Russian sources and is probably state sponsored. Even our very own site has been targeted by this, there are some well known profiles whose voices could only be sensibly explained as being bad actors working to cause disagreement and social unrest, and to disrupt efforts in limitation and control of the infection spreading. All this disinformation has undoubtedly worsened the global crisis, increased the death toll, added hundreds of billions to the economic costs. Whether the spreading of the covid virus was just an unfortunate natural event, or originating in an accident at some medical facility, or a deliberate act of viral warfare, the weaponisation of the pandemic by hostile cyber actors is something that we can be certain of. Should our governments be doing more to educate the people that such cyber warfare is actual warfare, with real victims? Should we be rooting out and taking measures against those who are contributing to the spread of these dangerous untruths? Should there be more controls against bot accounts, apologists and promoters of hostile governments? Does the lack of action give some indication of the levels of infiltration of hostile actors into our own population and even into our own government? Is there any way to fight back, or has the disinformation war already been lost? Ukraine seem to be winning the propaganda war. Although I guess not in Russia?" The blue and yellow flags here and their euro vision win make a huge difference to them I'm sure. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Just been thinking about the overwhelming exercise in spreading disinformation during the pandemic, particularly via the internet and social media channels. It is well known that a huge amount of this originates from Russian sources and is probably state sponsored. Even our very own site has been targeted by this, there are some well known profiles whose voices could only be sensibly explained as being bad actors working to cause disagreement and social unrest, and to disrupt efforts in limitation and control of the infection spreading. All this disinformation has undoubtedly worsened the global crisis, increased the death toll, added hundreds of billions to the economic costs. Whether the spreading of the covid virus was just an unfortunate natural event, or originating in an accident at some medical facility, or a deliberate act of viral warfare, the weaponisation of the pandemic by hostile cyber actors is something that we can be certain of. Should our governments be doing more to educate the people that such cyber warfare is actual warfare, with real victims? Should we be rooting out and taking measures against those who are contributing to the spread of these dangerous untruths? Should there be more controls against bot accounts, apologists and promoters of hostile governments? Does the lack of action give some indication of the levels of infiltration of hostile actors into our own population and even into our own government? Is there any way to fight back, or has the disinformation war already been lost? Ukraine seem to be winning the propaganda war. Although I guess not in Russia? The blue and yellow flags here and their euro vision win make a huge difference to them I'm sure. " Not as much difference as the arrival of the HIMARS  | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Anybody wonder if on the other side of Putins new and improved iron curtain there's a bunch of folks having a similar debate about the misinformation from the west? " Probably not, given the way Putin uses control of information to control the population. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Nothing to do with Russia then, which is what I was attempting to point out. There's significant documentary evidence of Russian attempts to abuse the systems we have in place. I know first hand from someone who is on the front line in defending our national systems! Chinese and North Korea infiltrations are predominantly about gathering information. Russian attacks on our systems are far more numerous and with far more destructive intent!" You do realise that the UK govt has virtually declared war against Russia and along with the EU has stolen its money and placed a raft of sanctions against its businesses and people as well as boasted about supplying and training ukranians to kill Russian soldiers. What do you expect Russia to do in return.... Say sorry? | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Nothing to do with Russia then, which is what I was attempting to point out. There's significant documentary evidence of Russian attempts to abuse the systems we have in place. I know first hand from someone who is on the front line in defending our national systems! Chinese and North Korea infiltrations are predominantly about gathering information. Russian attacks on our systems are far more numerous and with far more destructive intent! You do realise that the UK govt has virtually declared war against Russia and along with the EU has stolen its money and placed a raft of sanctions against its businesses and people as well as boasted about supplying and training ukranians to kill Russian soldiers. What do you expect Russia to do in return.... Say sorry? " Yes | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Anybody wonder if on the other side of Putins new and improved iron curtain there's a bunch of folks having a similar debate about the misinformation from the west? Probably not, given the way Putin uses control of information to control the population." Hahaha The empire of lies is how Putin described the west, he is 100% correct. The west has the most propagandised media in the world which includes all out Russiaphobia disseminated by willing sheep and usa foreign policy apologists. Putin has the trust and backing of the Russian people no matter how much propaganda you want to believe from the BBC or The Guardian. He also tells the truth to the a Russian people something which people in the west cannot belueve because they have accepted that their own leaders are compulsive liars and they continue to vote for them anyway. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Nothing to do with Russia then, which is what I was attempting to point out. There's significant documentary evidence of Russian attempts to abuse the systems we have in place. I know first hand from someone who is on the front line in defending our national systems! Chinese and North Korea infiltrations are predominantly about gathering information. Russian attacks on our systems are far more numerous and with far more destructive intent! You do realise that the UK govt has virtually declared war against Russia and along with the EU has stolen its money and placed a raft of sanctions against its businesses and people as well as boasted about supplying and training ukranians to kill Russian soldiers. What do you expect Russia to do in return.... Say sorry? " I expect Russian forces to cross back inside their boarders and eventually they will, either on foot or in boxes. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Nothing to do with Russia then, which is what I was attempting to point out. There's significant documentary evidence of Russian attempts to abuse the systems we have in place. I know first hand from someone who is on the front line in defending our national systems! Chinese and North Korea infiltrations are predominantly about gathering information. Russian attacks on our systems are far more numerous and with far more destructive intent! You do realise that the UK govt has virtually declared war against Russia and along with the EU has stolen its money and placed a raft of sanctions against its businesses and people as well as boasted about supplying and training ukranians to kill Russian soldiers. What do you expect Russia to do in return.... Say sorry? Yes" Sadly your answer is typical of the sheep that sit in front of the BBC news and tell each other that Putin is Hitler without knowing anything about the situation. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Anybody wonder if on the other side of Putins new and improved iron curtain there's a bunch of folks having a similar debate about the misinformation from the west? Probably not, given the way Putin uses control of information to control the population. Hahaha The empire of lies is how Putin described the west, he is 100% correct. The west has the most propagandised media in the world which includes all out Russiaphobia disseminated by willing sheep and usa foreign policy apologists. Putin has the trust and backing of the Russian people no matter how much propaganda you want to believe from the BBC or The Guardian. He also tells the truth to the a Russian people something which people in the west cannot belueve because they have accepted that their own leaders are compulsive liars and they continue to vote for them anyway. " So are you a) a Russian troll or b) a fool How many BBC journalists have stood up on air and denounced the reporting of lies... and how many at RT... | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Nothing to do with Russia then, which is what I was attempting to point out. There's significant documentary evidence of Russian attempts to abuse the systems we have in place. I know first hand from someone who is on the front line in defending our national systems! Chinese and North Korea infiltrations are predominantly about gathering information. Russian attacks on our systems are far more numerous and with far more destructive intent! You do realise that the UK govt has virtually declared war against Russia and along with the EU has stolen its money and placed a raft of sanctions against its businesses and people as well as boasted about supplying and training ukranians to kill Russian soldiers. What do you expect Russia to do in return.... Say sorry? I expect Russian forces to cross back inside their boarders and eventually they will, either on foot or in boxes." I expect that Putin will escalate, because his ego matters more than lives and peace. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Nothing to do with Russia then, which is what I was attempting to point out. There's significant documentary evidence of Russian attempts to abuse the systems we have in place. I know first hand from someone who is on the front line in defending our national systems! Chinese and North Korea infiltrations are predominantly about gathering information. Russian attacks on our systems are far more numerous and with far more destructive intent! You do realise that the UK govt has virtually declared war against Russia and along with the EU has stolen its money and placed a raft of sanctions against its businesses and people as well as boasted about supplying and training ukranians to kill Russian soldiers. What do you expect Russia to do in return.... Say sorry? I expect Russian forces to cross back inside their boarders and eventually they will, either on foot or in boxes." Yet again you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Nothing to do with Russia then, which is what I was attempting to point out. There's significant documentary evidence of Russian attempts to abuse the systems we have in place. I know first hand from someone who is on the front line in defending our national systems! Chinese and North Korea infiltrations are predominantly about gathering information. Russian attacks on our systems are far more numerous and with far more destructive intent! You do realise that the UK govt has virtually declared war against Russia and along with the EU has stolen its money and placed a raft of sanctions against its businesses and people as well as boasted about supplying and training ukranians to kill Russian soldiers. What do you expect Russia to do in return.... Say sorry? I expect Russian forces to cross back inside their boarders and eventually they will, either on foot or in boxes. I expect that Putin will escalate, because his ego matters more than lives and peace." Well its clear you don't know anything about Putin nor about the conflict in Ukraine. Tell me how escalation works with NATO supplying 50 billion dollars of military hardware to the Ukraine and bj sabotaging peace talks in Turkey telling Ukraine to fight on and ignore Russian peace initiatives... | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Nothing to do with Russia then, which is what I was attempting to point out. There's significant documentary evidence of Russian attempts to abuse the systems we have in place. I know first hand from someone who is on the front line in defending our national systems! Chinese and North Korea infiltrations are predominantly about gathering information. Russian attacks on our systems are far more numerous and with far more destructive intent! You do realise that the UK govt has virtually declared war against Russia and along with the EU has stolen its money and placed a raft of sanctions against its businesses and people as well as boasted about supplying and training ukranians to kill Russian soldiers. What do you expect Russia to do in return.... Say sorry? Yes Sadly your answer is typical of the sheep that sit in front of the BBC news and tell each other that Putin is Hitler without knowing anything about the situation. " All you have is Ad Hominem? ok. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Nothing to do with Russia then, which is what I was attempting to point out. There's significant documentary evidence of Russian attempts to abuse the systems we have in place. I know first hand from someone who is on the front line in defending our national systems! Chinese and North Korea infiltrations are predominantly about gathering information. Russian attacks on our systems are far more numerous and with far more destructive intent! You do realise that the UK govt has virtually declared war against Russia and along with the EU has stolen its money and placed a raft of sanctions against its businesses and people as well as boasted about supplying and training ukranians to kill Russian soldiers. What do you expect Russia to do in return.... Say sorry? Yes Sadly your answer is typical of the sheep that sit in front of the BBC news and tell each other that Putin is Hitler without knowing anything about the situation. " And your reply is typical of the sheep suckered by Russian disinformation... Putin isn’t hitler but Putin is driven To expand of Russia and destroy the west. I don’t need BBC to tell me that, Putin makes it clear himself. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Nothing to do with Russia then, which is what I was attempting to point out. There's significant documentary evidence of Russian attempts to abuse the systems we have in place. I know first hand from someone who is on the front line in defending our national systems! Chinese and North Korea infiltrations are predominantly about gathering information. Russian attacks on our systems are far more numerous and with far more destructive intent! You do realise that the UK govt has virtually declared war against Russia and along with the EU has stolen its money and placed a raft of sanctions against its businesses and people as well as boasted about supplying and training ukranians to kill Russian soldiers. What do you expect Russia to do in return.... Say sorry? I expect Russian forces to cross back inside their boarders and eventually they will, either on foot or in boxes. I expect that Putin will escalate, because his ego matters more than lives and peace. Well its clear you don't know anything about Putin nor about the conflict in Ukraine. Tell me how escalation works with NATO supplying 50 billion dollars of military hardware to the Ukraine and bj sabotaging peace talks in Turkey telling Ukraine to fight on and ignore Russian peace initiatives... " I respect your right to your opinion. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Nothing to do with Russia then, which is what I was attempting to point out. There's significant documentary evidence of Russian attempts to abuse the systems we have in place. I know first hand from someone who is on the front line in defending our national systems! Chinese and North Korea infiltrations are predominantly about gathering information. Russian attacks on our systems are far more numerous and with far more destructive intent! You do realise that the UK govt has virtually declared war against Russia and along with the EU has stolen its money and placed a raft of sanctions against its businesses and people as well as boasted about supplying and training ukranians to kill Russian soldiers. What do you expect Russia to do in return.... Say sorry? Yes Sadly your answer is typical of the sheep that sit in front of the BBC news and tell each other that Putin is Hitler without knowing anything about the situation. And your reply is typical of the sheep suckered by Russian disinformation... Putin isn’t hitler but Putin is driven To expand of Russia and destroy the west. I don’t need BBC to tell me that, Putin makes it clear himself." You don't know what you are talking about. And you are proving my point every time you engage to type. Give me the exact quote where Putin says he wants to destroy the west. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"You do realise that ukraine is now drafting 18 and 19 year old girls to the donbass front to be blown apart by Russian artillery. A willing sacrifice in the eyes of the bloodthirsty west. " [citation needed] | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Nothing to do with Russia then, which is what I was attempting to point out. There's significant documentary evidence of Russian attempts to abuse the systems we have in place. I know first hand from someone who is on the front line in defending our national systems! Chinese and North Korea infiltrations are predominantly about gathering information. Russian attacks on our systems are far more numerous and with far more destructive intent! You do realise that the UK govt has virtually declared war against Russia and along with the EU has stolen its money and placed a raft of sanctions against its businesses and people as well as boasted about supplying and training ukranians to kill Russian soldiers. What do you expect Russia to do in return.... Say sorry? Yes Sadly your answer is typical of the sheep that sit in front of the BBC news and tell each other that Putin is Hitler without knowing anything about the situation. All you have is Ad Hominem? ok." Wrong. I have truth... Facts and reason. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Nothing to do with Russia then, which is what I was attempting to point out. There's significant documentary evidence of Russian attempts to abuse the systems we have in place. I know first hand from someone who is on the front line in defending our national systems! Chinese and North Korea infiltrations are predominantly about gathering information. Russian attacks on our systems are far more numerous and with far more destructive intent! You do realise that the UK govt has virtually declared war against Russia and along with the EU has stolen its money and placed a raft of sanctions against its businesses and people as well as boasted about supplying and training ukranians to kill Russian soldiers. What do you expect Russia to do in return.... Say sorry? Yes Sadly your answer is typical of the sheep that sit in front of the BBC news and tell each other that Putin is Hitler without knowing anything about the situation. All you have is Ad Hominem? ok. Wrong. I have truth... Facts and reason. " You haven't presented them though. You have made claims... We can ALL make claims! | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Nothing to do with Russia then, which is what I was attempting to point out. There's significant documentary evidence of Russian attempts to abuse the systems we have in place. I know first hand from someone who is on the front line in defending our national systems! Chinese and North Korea infiltrations are predominantly about gathering information. Russian attacks on our systems are far more numerous and with far more destructive intent! You do realise that the UK govt has virtually declared war against Russia and along with the EU has stolen its money and placed a raft of sanctions against its businesses and people as well as boasted about supplying and training ukranians to kill Russian soldiers. What do you expect Russia to do in return.... Say sorry? Yes Sadly your answer is typical of the sheep that sit in front of the BBC news and tell each other that Putin is Hitler without knowing anything about the situation. All you have is Ad Hominem? ok. Wrong. I have truth... Facts and reason. You haven't presented them though. You have made claims... We can ALL make claims!" You have certainly done just that. The facts are that the west lies to you, both the media and the govt. Russia is winning the conflict in Ukraine and that situation has never changed nor will it change. Putin is not Hitler and does not want to invade the west. However if NATO forces attack Russia then Putin will completely and utterly destroy them, ruthless sanctions and theft have been inflicted on the Russian people, Russia is winning the economic war and the effects of sanctioning Russia will be catastrophic for the UK, putin does not lie to the Russian people, he doesn't need to. The Ukraine has girls now fighting in the front lines due to ww1 era losses, Oh and Russia has distanced itself from the non stop covid lies that the west has engaged in, particularly fauci who is a compulsive liar and a genuinely evil entity as is big pharma. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"You have certainly done just that. The facts are that the west lies to you, both the media and the govt. Russia is winning the conflict in Ukraine and that situation has never changed nor will it change. Putin is not Hitler and does not want to invade the west. However if NATO forces attack Russia then Putin will completely and utterly destroy them, ruthless sanctions and theft have been inflicted on the Russian people, Russia is winning the economic war and the effects of sanctioning Russia will be catastrophic for the UK, putin does not lie to the Russian people, he doesn't need to. The Ukraine has girls now fighting in the front lines due to ww1 era losses, Oh and Russia has distanced itself from the non stop covid lies that the west has engaged in, particularly fauci who is a compulsive liar and a genuinely evil entity as is big pharma. " I have made no claims. I have offered opinions and pointed out the flaws/logical fallacies in what you have posted. The quoted is a claim, and will be nothing more until it is backed with credible citation. You won't though | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"You have certainly done just that. The facts are that the west lies to you, both the media and the govt. Russia is winning the conflict in Ukraine and that situation has never changed nor will it change. Putin is not Hitler and does not want to invade the west. However if NATO forces attack Russia then Putin will completely and utterly destroy them, ruthless sanctions and theft have been inflicted on the Russian people, Russia is winning the economic war and the effects of sanctioning Russia will be catastrophic for the UK, putin does not lie to the Russian people, he doesn't need to. The Ukraine has girls now fighting in the front lines due to ww1 era losses, Oh and Russia has distanced itself from the non stop covid lies that the west has engaged in, particularly fauci who is a compulsive liar and a genuinely evil entity as is big pharma. I have made no claims. I have offered opinions and pointed out the flaws/logical fallacies in what you have posted. The quoted is a claim, and will be nothing more until it is backed with credible citation. You won't though" What do you refute? | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"You have certainly done just that. The facts are that the west lies to you, both the media and the govt. Russia is winning the conflict in Ukraine and that situation has never changed nor will it change. Putin is not Hitler and does not want to invade the west. However if NATO forces attack Russia then Putin will completely and utterly destroy them, ruthless sanctions and theft have been inflicted on the Russian people, Russia is winning the economic war and the effects of sanctioning Russia will be catastrophic for the UK, putin does not lie to the Russian people, he doesn't need to. The Ukraine has girls now fighting in the front lines due to ww1 era losses, Oh and Russia has distanced itself from the non stop covid lies that the west has engaged in, particularly fauci who is a compulsive liar and a genuinely evil entity as is big pharma. I have made no claims. I have offered opinions and pointed out the flaws/logical fallacies in what you have posted. The quoted is a claim, and will be nothing more until it is backed with credible citation. You won't though What do you refute? " Until you back your claims with credible citations I don't need to refute anything. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"You have certainly done just that. The facts are that the west lies to you, both the media and the govt. Russia is winning the conflict in Ukraine and that situation has never changed nor will it change. Putin is not Hitler and does not want to invade the west. However if NATO forces attack Russia then Putin will completely and utterly destroy them, ruthless sanctions and theft have been inflicted on the Russian people, Russia is winning the economic war and the effects of sanctioning Russia will be catastrophic for the UK, putin does not lie to the Russian people, he doesn't need to. The Ukraine has girls now fighting in the front lines due to ww1 era losses, Oh and Russia has distanced itself from the non stop covid lies that the west has engaged in, particularly fauci who is a compulsive liar and a genuinely evil entity as is big pharma. I have made no claims. I have offered opinions and pointed out the flaws/logical fallacies in what you have posted. The quoted is a claim, and will be nothing more until it is backed with credible citation. You won't though What do you refute? Until you back your claims with credible citations I don't need to refute anything." Well likewise. You thibk Dr fauci has been telling you the truth Re covid and the vaccine? You think Russia isn't winning the fight in Ukraine? You think the bbc is reporting the facts in Ukraine? You think zelensky is not a nato puppet and that nato havent escalated the conflict? You think the sanction against Russia haven't backfired catastrophically against the west? | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"You have certainly done just that. The facts are that the west lies to you, both the media and the govt. Russia is winning the conflict in Ukraine and that situation has never changed nor will it change. Putin is not Hitler and does not want to invade the west. However if NATO forces attack Russia then Putin will completely and utterly destroy them, ruthless sanctions and theft have been inflicted on the Russian people, Russia is winning the economic war and the effects of sanctioning Russia will be catastrophic for the UK, putin does not lie to the Russian people, he doesn't need to. The Ukraine has girls now fighting in the front lines due to ww1 era losses, Oh and Russia has distanced itself from the non stop covid lies that the west has engaged in, particularly fauci who is a compulsive liar and a genuinely evil entity as is big pharma. I have made no claims. I have offered opinions and pointed out the flaws/logical fallacies in what you have posted. The quoted is a claim, and will be nothing more until it is backed with credible citation. You won't though What do you refute? Until you back your claims with credible citations I don't need to refute anything. Well likewise. You thibk Dr fauci has been telling you the truth Re covid and the vaccine? You think Russia isn't winning the fight in Ukraine? You think the bbc is reporting the facts in Ukraine? You think zelensky is not a nato puppet and that nato havent escalated the conflict? You think the sanction against Russia haven't backfired catastrophically against the west? " I dare you to find anywhere where I have said any of that. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"You have certainly done just that. The facts are that the west lies to you, both the media and the govt. Russia is winning the conflict in Ukraine and that situation has never changed nor will it change. Putin is not Hitler and does not want to invade the west. However if NATO forces attack Russia then Putin will completely and utterly destroy them, ruthless sanctions and theft have been inflicted on the Russian people, Russia is winning the economic war and the effects of sanctioning Russia will be catastrophic for the UK, putin does not lie to the Russian people, he doesn't need to. The Ukraine has girls now fighting in the front lines due to ww1 era losses, Oh and Russia has distanced itself from the non stop covid lies that the west has engaged in, particularly fauci who is a compulsive liar and a genuinely evil entity as is big pharma. I have made no claims. I have offered opinions and pointed out the flaws/logical fallacies in what you have posted. The quoted is a claim, and will be nothing more until it is backed with credible citation. You won't though What do you refute? Until you back your claims with credible citations I don't need to refute anything. Well likewise. You thibk Dr fauci has been telling you the truth Re covid and the vaccine? You think Russia isn't winning the fight in Ukraine? You think the bbc is reporting the facts in Ukraine? You think zelensky is not a nato puppet and that nato havent escalated the conflict? You think the sanction against Russia haven't backfired catastrophically against the west? I dare you to find anywhere where I have said any of that." I'm glad you haven't then, they were just example straight from the Empire of lies....and then spread by willing dupes. Putin is Hitler!!! Although... Let's quietly ignore Joe Biden and the demented bloodthirsty antics of the US state dept.... Who are currently recklessly playing poke the dragon by sending a d*unken and corrupt oap to Taiwan to flirt with nuclear war. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"I'm glad you haven't then, they were just example straight from the Empire of lies....and then spread by willing dupes. Putin is Hitler!!! Although... Let's quietly ignore Joe Biden and the demented bloodthirsty antics of the US state dept.... Who are currently recklessly playing poke the dragon by sending a d*unken and corrupt oap to Taiwan to flirt with nuclear war. " So your not planning on doing anything other than making baseless claims then? Got ya! | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Just been thinking about the overwhelming exercise in spreading disinformation during the pandemic, particularly via the internet and social media channels. It is well known that a huge amount of this originates from Russian sources and is probably state sponsored. Even our very own site has been targeted by this, there are some well known profiles whose voices could only be sensibly explained as being bad actors working to cause disagreement and social unrest, and to disrupt efforts in limitation and control of the infection spreading. All this disinformation has undoubtedly worsened the global crisis, increased the death toll, added hundreds of billions to the economic costs. Whether the spreading of the covid virus was just an unfortunate natural event, or originating in an accident at some medical facility, or a deliberate act of viral warfare, the weaponisation of the pandemic by hostile cyber actors is something that we can be certain of. Should our governments be doing more to educate the people that such cyber warfare is actual warfare, with real victims? Should we be rooting out and taking measures against those who are contributing to the spread of these dangerous untruths? Should there be more controls against bot accounts, apologists and promoters of hostile governments? Does the lack of action give some indication of the levels of infiltration of hostile actors into our own population and even into our own government? Is there any way to fight back, or has the disinformation war already been lost?" So the Russians did it? That always goes so well doesn't it? Have you ever wondered why the current Bogeyman is apways against you and yours? Maybe it's not the bogeyman after all. C | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Anybody wonder if on the other side of Putins new and improved iron curtain there's a bunch of folks having a similar debate about the misinformation from the west? Probably not, given the way Putin uses control of information to control the population. Hahaha The empire of lies is how Putin described the west, he is 100% correct. The west has the most propagandised media in the world which includes all out Russiaphobia disseminated by willing sheep and usa foreign policy apologists. Putin has the trust and backing of the Russian people no matter how much propaganda you want to believe from the BBC or The Guardian. He also tells the truth to the a Russian people something which people in the west cannot belueve because they have accepted that their own leaders are compulsive liars and they continue to vote for them anyway. " The answers seem too specific and well framed to be a bot. So I think we have to assume that this is coming from a live disinformation team. Either we need better international firewall systems to at least be able to detect the foreign based origin of this type of disruptive troublemaking, or we need improvements in our domestic security agencies to remove the fifth columnists that have been planted within our borders. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Anybody wonder if on the other side of Putins new and improved iron curtain there's a bunch of folks having a similar debate about the misinformation from the west? Probably not, given the way Putin uses control of information to control the population. Hahaha The empire of lies is how Putin described the west, he is 100% correct. The west has the most propagandised media in the world which includes all out Russiaphobia disseminated by willing sheep and usa foreign policy apologists. Putin has the trust and backing of the Russian people no matter how much propaganda you want to believe from the BBC or The Guardian. He also tells the truth to the a Russian people something which people in the west cannot belueve because they have accepted that their own leaders are compulsive liars and they continue to vote for them anyway. The answers seem too specific and well framed to be a bot. So I think we have to assume that this is coming from a live disinformation team. Either we need better international firewall systems to at least be able to detect the foreign based origin of this type of disruptive troublemaking, or we need improvements in our domestic security agencies to remove the fifth columnists that have been planted within our borders." Hahaha I presume you are joking, but you never know. What do you think the CIA and MI6 are doing in regards to Russia atm? Especially in regards to the information war... What happened to the ghost of kiev or the massacre on snake Island, or the evidence for the Bucha massacre... Meanwhile are the ukranian azov batallion a bunch of neo nazi thugs? Yes or no. If no then explain the video evidence of them committing war crimes. Do you think the CIA is a force of good in the world? Yes or no.... Name one thing I have got wrong... | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Anybody wonder if on the other side of Putins new and improved iron curtain there's a bunch of folks having a similar debate about the misinformation from the west? Probably not, given the way Putin uses control of information to control the population. Hahaha The empire of lies is how Putin described the west, he is 100% correct. The west has the most propagandised media in the world which includes all out Russiaphobia disseminated by willing sheep and usa foreign policy apologists. Putin has the trust and backing of the Russian people no matter how much propaganda you want to believe from the BBC or The Guardian. He also tells the truth to the a Russian people something which people in the west cannot belueve because they have accepted that their own leaders are compulsive liars and they continue to vote for them anyway. The answers seem too specific and well framed to be a bot. So I think we have to assume that this is coming from a live disinformation team. Either we need better international firewall systems to at least be able to detect the foreign based origin of this type of disruptive troublemaking, or we need improvements in our domestic security agencies to remove the fifth columnists that have been planted within our borders. Hahaha I presume you are joking, but you never know. What do you think the CIA and MI6 are doing in regards to Russia atm? Especially in regards to the information war... What happened to the ghost of kiev or the massacre on snake Island, or the evidence for the Bucha massacre... Meanwhile are the ukranian azov batallion a bunch of neo nazi thugs? Yes or no. If no then explain the video evidence of them committing war crimes. Do you think the CIA is a force of good in the world? Yes or no.... Name one thing I have got wrong... " He gets it. I’m out | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Anybody wonder if on the other side of Putins new and improved iron curtain there's a bunch of folks having a similar debate about the misinformation from the west? Probably not, given the way Putin uses control of information to control the population. Hahaha The empire of lies is how Putin described the west, he is 100% correct. The west has the most propagandised media in the world which includes all out Russiaphobia disseminated by willing sheep and usa foreign policy apologists. Putin has the trust and backing of the Russian people no matter how much propaganda you want to believe from the BBC or The Guardian. He also tells the truth to the a Russian people something which people in the west cannot belueve because they have accepted that their own leaders are compulsive liars and they continue to vote for them anyway. So are you a) a Russian troll or b) a fool How many BBC journalists have stood up on air and denounced the reporting of lies... and how many at RT... " Cough cough. I guess you have not watched gb news or talk tv then. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"I have a good friend who is Russian. 10 years ago he laughed at how naive I was when I asked him about people queuing for bread etc. He said if yiu watch Russian TV its documentaries about homeless Vietnam vets in America and how bad they treat people in fought in army, ghettos in inner cities and segregation. Also similar tv shows about Western Europe. Same guy would return to Russia anytime he needs dental or hospital treatment as he refused to use Irish health care unless it was an emergency " Russia have been feeding such anti western propaganda for as long as Putin has been in power, I’ve watched plenty of it on RT. Some disenfranchised westerners have been suckered by it too. Such documentaries are usually not without a grain of truth but they only represent a 5% of the picture. Russia must be perfect because the certainly don’t broadcast similar material highlighting their own failings!... | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Anybody wonder if on the other side of Putins new and improved iron curtain there's a bunch of folks having a similar debate about the misinformation from the west? Probably not, given the way Putin uses control of information to control the population. Hahaha The empire of lies is how Putin described the west, he is 100% correct. The west has the most propagandised media in the world which includes all out Russiaphobia disseminated by willing sheep and usa foreign policy apologists. Putin has the trust and backing of the Russian people no matter how much propaganda you want to believe from the BBC or The Guardian. He also tells the truth to the a Russian people something which people in the west cannot belueve because they have accepted that their own leaders are compulsive liars and they continue to vote for them anyway. So are you a) a Russian troll or b) a fool How many BBC journalists have stood up on air and denounced the reporting of lies... and how many at RT... Cough cough. I guess you have not watched gb news or talk tv then." I dip in and out of GB news, I find some of its presenters borderline unpleasant. Who are you saying publicly quit either because they where no longer willing to broadcast government enforced lies? | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"I have a good friend who is Russian. 10 years ago he laughed at how naive I was when I asked him about people queuing for bread etc. He said if yiu watch Russian TV its documentaries about homeless Vietnam vets in America and how bad they treat people in fought in army, ghettos in inner cities and segregation. Also similar tv shows about Western Europe. Same guy would return to Russia anytime he needs dental or hospital treatment as he refused to use Irish health care unless it was an emergency Russia have been feeding such anti western propaganda for as long as Putin has been in power, I’ve watched plenty of it on RT. Some disenfranchised westerners have been suckered by it too. Such documentaries are usually not without a grain of truth but they only represent a 5% of the picture. Russia must be perfect because the certainly don’t broadcast similar material highlighting their own failings!..." The point being that Russian/American cold War propaganda never went away | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"You have certainly done just that. The facts are that the west lies to you, both the media and the govt. Russia is winning the conflict in Ukraine and that situation has never changed nor will it change. Putin is not Hitler and does not want to invade the west. However if NATO forces attack Russia then Putin will completely and utterly destroy them, ruthless sanctions and theft have been inflicted on the Russian people, Russia is winning the economic war and the effects of sanctioning Russia will be catastrophic for the UK, putin does not lie to the Russian people, he doesn't need to. The Ukraine has girls now fighting in the front lines due to ww1 era losses, Oh and Russia has distanced itself from the non stop covid lies that the west has engaged in, particularly fauci who is a compulsive liar and a genuinely evil entity as is big pharma. I have made no claims. I have offered opinions and pointed out the flaws/logical fallacies in what you have posted. The quoted is a claim, and will be nothing more until it is backed with credible citation. You won't though What do you refute? Until you back your claims with credible citations I don't need to refute anything. Well likewise. You thibk Dr fauci has been telling you the truth Re covid and the vaccine? You think Russia isn't winning the fight in Ukraine? You think the bbc is reporting the facts in Ukraine? You think zelensky is not a nato puppet and that nato havent escalated the conflict? You think the sanction against Russia haven't backfired catastrophically against the west? I dare you to find anywhere where I have said any of that. I'm glad you haven't then, they were just example straight from the Empire of lies....and then spread by willing dupes. Putin is Hitler!!! Although... Let's quietly ignore Joe Biden and the demented bloodthirsty antics of the US state dept.... Who are currently recklessly playing poke the dragon by sending a d*unken and corrupt oap to Taiwan to flirt with nuclear war. " Trump is in Taiwan?  | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"You have certainly done just that. The facts are that the west lies to you, both the media and the govt. Russia is winning the conflict in Ukraine and that situation has never changed nor will it change. Putin is not Hitler and does not want to invade the west. However if NATO forces attack Russia then Putin will completely and utterly destroy them, ruthless sanctions and theft have been inflicted on the Russian people, Russia is winning the economic war and the effects of sanctioning Russia will be catastrophic for the UK, putin does not lie to the Russian people, he doesn't need to. The Ukraine has girls now fighting in the front lines due to ww1 era losses, Oh and Russia has distanced itself from the non stop covid lies that the west has engaged in, particularly fauci who is a compulsive liar and a genuinely evil entity as is big pharma. I have made no claims. I have offered opinions and pointed out the flaws/logical fallacies in what you have posted. The quoted is a claim, and will be nothing more until it is backed with credible citation. You won't though What do you refute? Until you back your claims with credible citations I don't need to refute anything. Well likewise. You thibk Dr fauci has been telling you the truth Re covid and the vaccine? You think Russia isn't winning the fight in Ukraine? You think the bbc is reporting the facts in Ukraine? You think zelensky is not a nato puppet and that nato havent escalated the conflict? You think the sanction against Russia haven't backfired catastrophically against the west? " Russia though it could take Kyiv in 3 days with minimal casualties... it failed spectacularly whilst it has taken territory the World War Two scale of losses in manpower and equipment can be described as anything bur winning. Russia may hold on to the East but it will soon have to abandon Kherson, a bridge too far. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"You have certainly done just that. The facts are that the west lies to you, both the media and the govt. Russia is winning the conflict in Ukraine and that situation has never changed nor will it change. Putin is not Hitler and does not want to invade the west. However if NATO forces attack Russia then Putin will completely and utterly destroy them, ruthless sanctions and theft have been inflicted on the Russian people, Russia is winning the economic war and the effects of sanctioning Russia will be catastrophic for the UK, putin does not lie to the Russian people, he doesn't need to. The Ukraine has girls now fighting in the front lines due to ww1 era losses, Oh and Russia has distanced itself from the non stop covid lies that the west has engaged in, particularly fauci who is a compulsive liar and a genuinely evil entity as is big pharma. I have made no claims. I have offered opinions and pointed out the flaws/logical fallacies in what you have posted. The quoted is a claim, and will be nothing more until it is backed with credible citation. You won't though What do you refute? Until you back your claims with credible citations I don't need to refute anything. Well likewise. You thibk Dr fauci has been telling you the truth Re covid and the vaccine? You think Russia isn't winning the fight in Ukraine? You think the bbc is reporting the facts in Ukraine? You think zelensky is not a nato puppet and that nato havent escalated the conflict? You think the sanction against Russia haven't backfired catastrophically against the west? I dare you to find anywhere where I have said any of that. I'm glad you haven't then, they were just example straight from the Empire of lies....and then spread by willing dupes. Putin is Hitler!!! Although... Let's quietly ignore Joe Biden and the demented bloodthirsty antics of the US state dept.... Who are currently recklessly playing poke the dragon by sending a d*unken and corrupt oap to Taiwan to flirt with nuclear war. Trump is in Taiwan? "Probably thinks he's still in Kansas.. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Anybody wonder if on the other side of Putins new and improved iron curtain there's a bunch of folks having a similar debate about the misinformation from the west? Probably not, given the way Putin uses control of information to control the population. Hahaha The empire of lies is how Putin described the west, he is 100% correct. The west has the most propagandised media in the world which includes all out Russiaphobia disseminated by willing sheep and usa foreign policy apologists. Putin has the trust and backing of the Russian people no matter how much propaganda you want to believe from the BBC or The Guardian. He also tells the truth to the a Russian people something which people in the west cannot belueve because they have accepted that their own leaders are compulsive liars and they continue to vote for them anyway. So are you a) a Russian troll or b) a fool How many BBC journalists have stood up on air and denounced the reporting of lies... and how many at RT... Cough cough. I guess you have not watched gb news or talk tv then. I dip in and out of GB news, I find some of its presenters borderline unpleasant. Who are you saying publicly quit either because they where no longer willing to broadcast government enforced lies? " I can not think of any just now. the BBC does engage in state craft to influence people just like other media sources. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Anybody wonder if on the other side of Putins new and improved iron curtain there's a bunch of folks having a similar debate about the misinformation from the west? Probably not, given the way Putin uses control of information to control the population. Hahaha The empire of lies is how Putin described the west, he is 100% correct. The west has the most propagandised media in the world which includes all out Russiaphobia disseminated by willing sheep and usa foreign policy apologists. Putin has the trust and backing of the Russian people no matter how much propaganda you want to believe from the BBC or The Guardian. He also tells the truth to the a Russian people something which people in the west cannot belueve because they have accepted that their own leaders are compulsive liars and they continue to vote for them anyway. So are you a) a Russian troll or b) a fool How many BBC journalists have stood up on air and denounced the reporting of lies... and how many at RT... Cough cough. I guess you have not watched gb news or talk tv then. I dip in and out of GB news, I find some of its presenters borderline unpleasant. Who are you saying publicly quit either because they where no longer willing to broadcast government enforced lies? I can not think of any just now. the BBC does engage in state craft to influence people just like other media sources. " The difference between Western media and Russian media being that Western media are not dictated to by a dictatorship. Western media can choose to follow or choose to challenge the “official” narrative. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"You have certainly done just that. The facts are that the west lies to you, both the media and the govt. Russia is winning the conflict in Ukraine and that situation has never changed nor will it change. Putin is not Hitler and does not want to invade the west. However if NATO forces attack Russia then Putin will completely and utterly destroy them, ruthless sanctions and theft have been inflicted on the Russian people, Russia is winning the economic war and the effects of sanctioning Russia will be catastrophic for the UK, putin does not lie to the Russian people, he doesn't need to. The Ukraine has girls now fighting in the front lines due to ww1 era losses, Oh and Russia has distanced itself from the non stop covid lies that the west has engaged in, particularly fauci who is a compulsive liar and a genuinely evil entity as is big pharma. I have made no claims. I have offered opinions and pointed out the flaws/logical fallacies in what you have posted. The quoted is a claim, and will be nothing more until it is backed with credible citation. You won't though What do you refute? Until you back your claims with credible citations I don't need to refute anything. Well likewise. You thibk Dr fauci has been telling you the truth Re covid and the vaccine? You think Russia isn't winning the fight in Ukraine? You think the bbc is reporting the facts in Ukraine? You think zelensky is not a nato puppet and that nato havent escalated the conflict? You think the sanction against Russia haven't backfired catastrophically against the west? Russia though it could take Kyiv in 3 days with minimal casualties... it failed spectacularly whilst it has taken territory the World War Two scale of losses in manpower and equipment can be described as anything bur winning. Russia may hold on to the East but it will soon have to abandon Kherson, a bridge too far." You have no idea what you are talking about. Why do you persist in spouting nonsense you read in The Sun newspaper...? If Russia abandons kherson in the next three/four months I will give you £1000 by pay pal. If they don't then you give me £100....deal? | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Anybody wonder if on the other side of Putins new and improved iron curtain there's a bunch of folks having a similar debate about the misinformation from the west? Probably not, given the way Putin uses control of information to control the population. Hahaha The empire of lies is how Putin described the west, he is 100% correct. The west has the most propagandised media in the world which includes all out Russiaphobia disseminated by willing sheep and usa foreign policy apologists. Putin has the trust and backing of the Russian people no matter how much propaganda you want to believe from the BBC or The Guardian. He also tells the truth to the a Russian people something which people in the west cannot belueve because they have accepted that their own leaders are compulsive liars and they continue to vote for them anyway. So are you a) a Russian troll or b) a fool How many BBC journalists have stood up on air and denounced the reporting of lies... and how many at RT... Cough cough. I guess you have not watched gb news or talk tv then. I dip in and out of GB news, I find some of its presenters borderline unpleasant. Who are you saying publicly quit either because they where no longer willing to broadcast government enforced lies? I can not think of any just now. the BBC does engage in state craft to influence people just like other media sources. The difference between Western media and Russian media being that Western media are not dictated to by a dictatorship. Western media can choose to follow or choose to challenge the “official” narrative. " Why do you think this? You realise that on Russian TV there are lively debates re Ukraine, how many pro Russian opinion pieces do you see on our news? | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"You have certainly done just that. The facts are that the west lies to you, both the media and the govt. Russia is winning the conflict in Ukraine and that situation has never changed nor will it change. Putin is not Hitler and does not want to invade the west. However if NATO forces attack Russia then Putin will completely and utterly destroy them, ruthless sanctions and theft have been inflicted on the Russian people, Russia is winning the economic war and the effects of sanctioning Russia will be catastrophic for the UK, putin does not lie to the Russian people, he doesn't need to. The Ukraine has girls now fighting in the front lines due to ww1 era losses, Oh and Russia has distanced itself from the non stop covid lies that the west has engaged in, particularly fauci who is a compulsive liar and a genuinely evil entity as is big pharma. I have made no claims. I have offered opinions and pointed out the flaws/logical fallacies in what you have posted. The quoted is a claim, and will be nothing more until it is backed with credible citation. You won't though What do you refute? Until you back your claims with credible citations I don't need to refute anything. Well likewise. You thibk Dr fauci has been telling you the truth Re covid and the vaccine? You think Russia isn't winning the fight in Ukraine? You think the bbc is reporting the facts in Ukraine? You think zelensky is not a nato puppet and that nato havent escalated the conflict? You think the sanction against Russia haven't backfired catastrophically against the west? Russia though it could take Kyiv in 3 days with minimal casualties... it failed spectacularly whilst it has taken territory the World War Two scale of losses in manpower and equipment can be described as anything bur winning. Russia may hold on to the East but it will soon have to abandon Kherson, a bridge too far. You have no idea what you are talking about. Why do you persist in spouting nonsense you read in The Sun newspaper...? If Russia abandons kherson in the next three/four months I will give you £1000 by pay pal. If they don't then you give me £100....deal? " I don’t need your money please use it to move to Russia where you belong. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Anybody wonder if on the other side of Putins new and improved iron curtain there's a bunch of folks having a similar debate about the misinformation from the west? Probably not, given the way Putin uses control of information to control the population. Hahaha The empire of lies is how Putin described the west, he is 100% correct. The west has the most propagandised media in the world which includes all out Russiaphobia disseminated by willing sheep and usa foreign policy apologists. Putin has the trust and backing of the Russian people no matter how much propaganda you want to believe from the BBC or The Guardian. He also tells the truth to the a Russian people something which people in the west cannot belueve because they have accepted that their own leaders are compulsive liars and they continue to vote for them anyway. So are you a) a Russian troll or b) a fool How many BBC journalists have stood up on air and denounced the reporting of lies... and how many at RT... Cough cough. I guess you have not watched gb news or talk tv then. I dip in and out of GB news, I find some of its presenters borderline unpleasant. Who are you saying publicly quit either because they where no longer willing to broadcast government enforced lies? I can not think of any just now. the BBC does engage in state craft to influence people just like other media sources. The difference between Western media and Russian media being that Western media are not dictated to by a dictatorship. Western media can choose to follow or choose to challenge the “official” narrative. " I am sure it is the same in russia, saying that you are not allowed to watch rt it has been taken off the air in the UK and I am sure the Russian regulators do the same to western news sources. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Anybody wonder if on the other side of Putins new and improved iron curtain there's a bunch of folks having a similar debate about the misinformation from the west? Probably not, given the way Putin uses control of information to control the population. Hahaha The empire of lies is how Putin described the west, he is 100% correct. The west has the most propagandised media in the world which includes all out Russiaphobia disseminated by willing sheep and usa foreign policy apologists. Putin has the trust and backing of the Russian people no matter how much propaganda you want to believe from the BBC or The Guardian. He also tells the truth to the a Russian people something which people in the west cannot belueve because they have accepted that their own leaders are compulsive liars and they continue to vote for them anyway. So are you a) a Russian troll or b) a fool How many BBC journalists have stood up on air and denounced the reporting of lies... and how many at RT... Cough cough. I guess you have not watched gb news or talk tv then. I dip in and out of GB news, I find some of its presenters borderline unpleasant. Who are you saying publicly quit either because they where no longer willing to broadcast government enforced lies? I can not think of any just now. the BBC does engage in state craft to influence people just like other media sources. The difference between Western media and Russian media being that Western media are not dictated to by a dictatorship. Western media can choose to follow or choose to challenge the “official” narrative. Why do you think this? You realise that on Russian TV there are lively debates re Ukraine, how many pro Russian opinion pieces do you see on our news? " Lively debates but not free debates, participants are carefully chosen Putin followers and are strongly reminded, like Brits going on holiday to Germany... don’t mention the war... it’s special operation.  Else risk jail  | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"America wants Russia to be in a long protracted war with the Ukraine - Ukraine is being used as a proxy. Why would anyone want that for the Ukrainian people ? The UNHCR has declared Ukraine a Level 3 emergency. And yeah, I presume Covid hasn't disappeared in the Ukraine whilst there's been a war so my heart goes out to them, the poor children *shrug* the mothers, fathers, ect trapped in a living hell hole. According to Henry Kissinger if Russia stays where it is now has conquered 20% of Ukraine and most of the Donbass region, the agricultural main area and a strip of land along the Black Sea, that will be a victory for Russia. Henry Kissinger says the other outcome is if Ukraine attempts to drive Russia out of the territory it acquired before the start of this war, including Crimea, and then the issue of a war with Russia itself will arise if the war continues. The third outcome is if the Free people can keep Russia from achieving any military conquests and if the battle line returns to the position where the war started. Ukraine will be reconstituted to the shape it was before the war started. So let's say the Ukraine are successful in defeating the Russians, it will come with a very heavy price for the people. Its easy for us to cheer from the safety of our own homes, fly flags and saying we stand with them. Where is the anti war movement?? Why are we not condemning the War Profiteers Lockheed Martin ect NPR News recently reported "Corruption concerns involving Ukraine revived as the War with Russia drags on " The Biden administration is once again grappling with long standing worries about Ukraines suitability as recipient for massive infusion of American Aid. Find and read the full article - July 22nd 2022 NPR news would have been given the green light by the US State Department to release that story. Zelensky days are numbered and the Americans will throw him under the bus." I agree that I think the US will probably have zelensky murdered and then blame it on the Russians. The Ukraine is fucked. The losses are genuinely eye watering, Ukraine are losing 500 men a day on average and an equal amount of equipment, Russia is utilising 10-15% of its manpower in the special operation and rotating its troops to bring fresh forces to the front line. I belueve Russia will completely seal off the south and complete the Donbass arc operation. After that it's up to them because there are no strategic holding places for the ukranians, its open country and Russia could advance at speed. Will Russia want to take all of Ukraine? I don't think the Russian public would want that, right now Putin has high approval ratings and the overwhelming support of the people. An extended campaign in the west of Ukraine may change that and Russians including Putin bear no hostility towards the ukranian people. They would want a settlement and a ukranian surrender. They will certainly offer that to the ukranian kiev govt. The kiev govt is under tremendous pressure from the Americans to continue being slaughtered. However even the Americans know a lost cause and they have ploughed enough tax payers money into that, American public opinion is changing and the deep state is looking at China | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Anybody wonder if on the other side of Putins new and improved iron curtain there's a bunch of folks having a similar debate about the misinformation from the west? Probably not, given the way Putin uses control of information to control the population. Hahaha The empire of lies is how Putin described the west, he is 100% correct. The west has the most propagandised media in the world which includes all out Russiaphobia disseminated by willing sheep and usa foreign policy apologists. Putin has the trust and backing of the Russian people no matter how much propaganda you want to believe from the BBC or The Guardian. He also tells the truth to the a Russian people something which people in the west cannot belueve because they have accepted that their own leaders are compulsive liars and they continue to vote for them anyway. So are you a) a Russian troll or b) a fool How many BBC journalists have stood up on air and denounced the reporting of lies... and how many at RT... Cough cough. I guess you have not watched gb news or talk tv then. I dip in and out of GB news, I find some of its presenters borderline unpleasant. Who are you saying publicly quit either because they where no longer willing to broadcast government enforced lies? I can not think of any just now. the BBC does engage in state craft to influence people just like other media sources. The difference between Western media and Russian media being that Western media are not dictated to by a dictatorship. Western media can choose to follow or choose to challenge the “official” narrative. Why do you think this? You realise that on Russian TV there are lively debates re Ukraine, how many pro Russian opinion pieces do you see on our news? Lively debates but not free debates, participants are carefully chosen Putin followers and are strongly reminded, like Brits going on holiday to Germany... don’t mention the war... it’s special operation. Else risk jail "It is a special military operation. The definition is legal. There are limits and objectives. It is not a war against Ukraine as a country. There is no all out declaration of war in the Duma. Russians are very legally minded like this. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Anybody wonder if on the other side of Putins new and improved iron curtain there's a bunch of folks having a similar debate about the misinformation from the west? Probably not, given the way Putin uses control of information to control the population. Hahaha The empire of lies is how Putin described the west, he is 100% correct. The west has the most propagandised media in the world which includes all out Russiaphobia disseminated by willing sheep and usa foreign policy apologists. Putin has the trust and backing of the Russian people no matter how much propaganda you want to believe from the BBC or The Guardian. He also tells the truth to the a Russian people something which people in the west cannot belueve because they have accepted that their own leaders are compulsive liars and they continue to vote for them anyway. So are you a) a Russian troll or b) a fool How many BBC journalists have stood up on air and denounced the reporting of lies... and how many at RT... Cough cough. I guess you have not watched gb news or talk tv then. I dip in and out of GB news, I find some of its presenters borderline unpleasant. Who are you saying publicly quit either because they where no longer willing to broadcast government enforced lies? I can not think of any just now. the BBC does engage in state craft to influence people just like other media sources. The difference between Western media and Russian media being that Western media are not dictated to by a dictatorship. Western media can choose to follow or choose to challenge the “official” narrative. Why do you think this? You realise that on Russian TV there are lively debates re Ukraine, how many pro Russian opinion pieces do you see on our news? Lively debates but not free debates, participants are carefully chosen Putin followers and are strongly reminded, like Brits going on holiday to Germany... don’t mention the war... it’s special operation. Else risk jail
It is a special military operation. The definition is legal. There are limits and objectives. It is not a war against Ukraine as a country. There is no all out declaration of war in the Duma. Russians are very legally minded like this.
"Russia agent I do hope you booted soon | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"It is a special military operation. The definition is legal. There are limits and objectives. It is not a war against Ukraine as a country. There is no all out declaration of war in the Duma. Russians are very legally minded like this." [Citation Needed] | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Humans are not that smart really, to be able to live and flourish in the world that we inhabit. With recent political results globally, how much faith do you have in the public to be able to elect leaders who are morally upright, competent and lead for the people, not themselves or a hidden few, etc? Our governments have little interest and the public less so. Education would be helpful. But we're probably a long way from being in a position to do much, with our endemic apathy a substantial barrier. After reading Polly's post, I wonder how many of us have taken on board the enormity of what Russia did and its consequences. " The consequences are that Russia heralded a transformation in world politics, a power shift, we move from a uni polar us hegemony to a multi polar world. It is a great day. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"You have certainly done just that. The facts are that the west lies to you, both the media and the govt. Russia is winning the conflict in Ukraine and that situation has never changed nor will it change. Putin is not Hitler and does not want to invade the west. However if NATO forces attack Russia then Putin will completely and utterly destroy them, ruthless sanctions and theft have been inflicted on the Russian people, Russia is winning the economic war and the effects of sanctioning Russia will be catastrophic for the UK, putin does not lie to the Russian people, he doesn't need to. The Ukraine has girls now fighting in the front lines due to ww1 era losses, Oh and Russia has distanced itself from the non stop covid lies that the west has engaged in, particularly fauci who is a compulsive liar and a genuinely evil entity as is big pharma. I have made no claims. I have offered opinions and pointed out the flaws/logical fallacies in what you have posted. The quoted is a claim, and will be nothing more until it is backed with credible citation. You won't though What do you refute? Until you back your claims with credible citations I don't need to refute anything. Well likewise. You thibk Dr fauci has been telling you the truth Re covid and the vaccine? You think Russia isn't winning the fight in Ukraine? You think the bbc is reporting the facts in Ukraine? You think zelensky is not a nato puppet and that nato havent escalated the conflict? You think the sanction against Russia haven't backfired catastrophically against the west? Russia though it could take Kyiv in 3 days with minimal casualties... it failed spectacularly whilst it has taken territory the World War Two scale of losses in manpower and equipment can be described as anything bur winning. Russia may hold on to the East but it will soon have to abandon Kherson, a bridge too far. You have no idea what you are talking about. Why do you persist in spouting nonsense you read in The Sun newspaper...? If Russia abandons kherson in the next three/four months I will give you £1000 by pay pal. If they don't then you give me £100....deal? " At some point I just knew he'd be after someone's bank details. The irony of someone who has no idea what he's talking about, while calling people out for "not knowing what they're talking about" is strong. Russia bot? Bad actor? Soooooooooo far down a rabbit hole? All 3. Dasvidaniya tovaritch, dasvidaniya comrade. Winston | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"The wonders of "freedom" and technology and libertarianism. I'm far from convinced that our so called freedoms are to our communal benefits. The biggest danger is where people are manipulated by those with unknown or hidden agendas. At least if you know someone's agenda you can be forwarned. Agreed. It's clear, for example, that the moderation policies of major social media networks are tailored to American norms, particularly imagined through the eyes of people in tech on the west coast of the US. Are these values we share, in the UK, or would we imagine them differently? To what extent does the enforcement of (these people's image of) US norms change discourse in the UK or elsewhere? Is this to our benefit? Wonder of we had a "national detox week" where all media were disabled online for a week it would help reset peoples understanding of what diet they choose to put into their brains. I don't know what the answer is. I think individual detox might be helpful, but I suspect wider answers might also be required Agreed. I think "we" are too weak to do what's best for us though. Which is ultimately censoring of what is put out, where, who and how. Laws and enforcement to rigorously police them and putting the responsibility directly into the platform for what they serve up along with colossal fines for disseminating what is against those laws. Self regulation is no regulation. How do we regulate without giving too much power to government, and/or stop them abusing it? That's the risk isn't it? However I'm sure where there's a will etc. And the trade off of course is improving quality over censorship and of course there are risks with that, that a small minority may feel they are being censored. But much of the poison we see starts its life in media, remember when it was forbidden to report on the ira in the 70s... Depriving them the oxygen of publicity. You have to give that power to someone / something, but that is achievable. X party, politically independent organisation, properly funded, properly policed. Its very do able. There's just no will to take on the media and tech gods. Look whta happened with Facebook i think in Australia. More of that is needed. We agree. I think it's surmountable, but I don't know how. Don't think anything will change. It takes effort and a will and its not there. Most folks are just too busy getting on with life, careers, mortgages, kids, schools, health, holidays, shopping trips etc etc to give any thought to media misinformation never mind shady government hacking. It's long known what we say and what we do is totally different, marketeers understand this and let rip and we lap it up. In the pub last week a conversation how frightening the hot weather around the world, what are people and governments doing she asked, lots of shrugs and shaking of heads, while she still runs her kids half a mile to school every morning in a range rover. Hypocritical, maybe, but me too. Ok. Some people are thinking about these issues." But would people actually do anything..like the lady in the pub concerned about the environment. Would she consider walking the kids to school instead of starting up the 4WD, not a chance. Would we cancel our holidays in the sun, no, unless someone forced us. Does it bother me when I see floods and forest fires, absolutely. Enough not to sun myself on a foreign beach, no. Am I hypocritical, yes. My point is you can bang on about everything all day long but would the majority of folks change their lives to help, don't think so. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Just been thinking about the overwhelming exercise in spreading disinformation during the pandemic, particularly via the internet and social media channels. It is well known that a huge amount of this originates from Russian sources and is probably state sponsored. Even our very own site has been targeted by this, there are some well known profiles whose voices could only be sensibly explained as being bad actors working to cause disagreement and social unrest, and to disrupt efforts in limitation and control of the infection spreading. All this disinformation has undoubtedly worsened the global crisis, increased the death toll, added hundreds of billions to the economic costs. Whether the spreading of the covid virus was just an unfortunate natural event, or originating in an accident at some medical facility, or a deliberate act of viral warfare, the weaponisation of the pandemic by hostile cyber actors is something that we can be certain of. Should our governments be doing more to educate the people that such cyber warfare is actual warfare, with real victims? Should we be rooting out and taking measures against those who are contributing to the spread of these dangerous untruths? Should there be more controls against bot accounts, apologists and promoters of hostile governments? Does the lack of action give some indication of the levels of infiltration of hostile actors into our own population and even into our own government? Is there any way to fight back, or has the disinformation war already been lost?" Bet your double jabbed and triple boosted | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Just been thinking about the overwhelming exercise in spreading disinformation during the pandemic, particularly via the internet and social media channels. It is well known that a huge amount of this originates from Russian sources and is probably state sponsored. Even our very own site has been targeted by this, there are some well known profiles whose voices could only be sensibly explained as being bad actors working to cause disagreement and social unrest, and to disrupt efforts in limitation and control of the infection spreading. All this disinformation has undoubtedly worsened the global crisis, increased the death toll, added hundreds of billions to the economic costs. Whether the spreading of the covid virus was just an unfortunate natural event, or originating in an accident at some medical facility, or a deliberate act of viral warfare, the weaponisation of the pandemic by hostile cyber actors is something that we can be certain of. Should our governments be doing more to educate the people that such cyber warfare is actual warfare, with real victims? Should we be rooting out and taking measures against those who are contributing to the spread of these dangerous untruths? Should there be more controls against bot accounts, apologists and promoters of hostile governments? Does the lack of action give some indication of the levels of infiltration of hostile actors into our own population and even into our own government? Is there any way to fight back, or has the disinformation war already been lost? Bet your double jabbed and triple boosted " I bet in WW2 you'd have refused to turn your lights out and put up black out blinds at night. Winston | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
" The difference between Western media and Russian media being that Western media are not dictated to by a dictatorship. Western media can choose to follow or choose to challenge the “official” narrative. " The UK and US media that the White House and Downing Street have admitted they influenced coverage? The same two places that openly said they work with social media comopanies to take down dissenting views? They even pay the social media companies with taxpayers money. You don't seem to see that our governments are just the same as the ones you claim to hate. They are all totalitarians. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"You have certainly done just that. The facts are that the west lies to you, both the media and the govt. Russia is winning the conflict in Ukraine and that situation has never changed nor will it change. Putin is not Hitler and does not want to invade the west. However if NATO forces attack Russia then Putin will completely and utterly destroy them, ruthless sanctions and theft have been inflicted on the Russian people, Russia is winning the economic war and the effects of sanctioning Russia will be catastrophic for the UK, putin does not lie to the Russian people, he doesn't need to. The Ukraine has girls now fighting in the front lines due to ww1 era losses, Oh and Russia has distanced itself from the non stop covid lies that the west has engaged in, particularly fauci who is a compulsive liar and a genuinely evil entity as is big pharma. I have made no claims. I have offered opinions and pointed out the flaws/logical fallacies in what you have posted. The quoted is a claim, and will be nothing more until it is backed with credible citation. You won't though What do you refute? Until you back your claims with credible citations I don't need to refute anything. Well likewise. You thibk Dr fauci has been telling you the truth Re covid and the vaccine? You think Russia isn't winning the fight in Ukraine? You think the bbc is reporting the facts in Ukraine? You think zelensky is not a nato puppet and that nato havent escalated the conflict? You think the sanction against Russia haven't backfired catastrophically against the west? Russia though it could take Kyiv in 3 days with minimal casualties... it failed spectacularly whilst it has taken territory the World War Two scale of losses in manpower and equipment can be described as anything bur winning. Russia may hold on to the East but it will soon have to abandon Kherson, a bridge too far. You have no idea what you are talking about. Why do you persist in spouting nonsense you read in The Sun newspaper...? If Russia abandons kherson in the next three/four months I will give you 1000 Rubles by pay pal. If they don't then you give me 100 Rubles....deal? " FTFY. Winston | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Anybody wonder if on the other side of Putins new and improved iron curtain there's a bunch of folks having a similar debate about the misinformation from the west? Probably not, given the way Putin uses control of information to control the population. Hahaha The empire of lies is how Putin described the west, he is 100% correct. The west has the most propagandised media in the world which includes all out Russiaphobia disseminated by willing sheep and usa foreign policy apologists. Putin has the trust and backing of the Russian people no matter how much propaganda you want to believe from the BBC or The Guardian. He also tells the truth to the a Russian people something which people in the west cannot belueve because they have accepted that their own leaders are compulsive liars and they continue to vote for them anyway. So are you a) a Russian troll or b) a fool How many BBC journalists have stood up on air and denounced the reporting of lies... and how many at RT... Cough cough. I guess you have not watched gb news or talk tv then. I dip in and out of GB news, I find some of its presenters borderline unpleasant. Who are you saying publicly quit either because they where no longer willing to broadcast government enforced lies? I can not think of any just now. the BBC does engage in state craft to influence people just like other media sources. The difference between Western media and Russian media being that Western media are not dictated to by a dictatorship. Western media can choose to follow or choose to challenge the “official” narrative. Why do you think this? You realise that on Russian TV there are lively debates re Ukraine, how many pro Russian opinion pieces do you see on our news? Lively debates but not free debates, participants are carefully chosen Putin followers and are strongly reminded, like Brits going on holiday to Germany... don’t mention the war... it’s special operation. Else risk jail
It is a special military operation. The definition is legal. There are limits and objectives. It is not a war against Ukraine as a country. There is no all out declaration of war in the Duma. Russians are very legally minded like this.
"Of course they are. No brutal kleptocracy here. Now, which super yacht shall I sip expensive western champagne on this weekend ? How many ‘girls’ shall we arrange? Where did I get my billions from? Questions like that and you may end up dead comrade. Can I fix you a cup of tea? | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Anybody wonder if on the other side of Putins new and improved iron curtain there's a bunch of folks having a similar debate about the misinformation from the west? Probably not, given the way Putin uses control of information to control the population. Hahaha The empire of lies is how Putin described the west, he is 100% correct. The west has the most propagandised media in the world which includes all out Russiaphobia disseminated by willing sheep and usa foreign policy apologists. Putin has the trust and backing of the Russian people no matter how much propaganda you want to believe from the BBC or The Guardian. He also tells the truth to the a Russian people something which people in the west cannot belueve because they have accepted that their own leaders are compulsive liars and they continue to vote for them anyway. So are you a) a Russian troll or b) a fool How many BBC journalists have stood up on air and denounced the reporting of lies... and how many at RT... Cough cough. I guess you have not watched gb news or talk tv then. I dip in and out of GB news, I find some of its presenters borderline unpleasant. Who are you saying publicly quit either because they where no longer willing to broadcast government enforced lies? I can not think of any just now. the BBC does engage in state craft to influence people just like other media sources. The difference between Western media and Russian media being that Western media are not dictated to by a dictatorship. Western media can choose to follow or choose to challenge the “official” narrative. Why do you think this? You realise that on Russian TV there are lively debates re Ukraine, how many pro Russian opinion pieces do you see on our news? Lively debates but not free debates, participants are carefully chosen Putin followers and are strongly reminded, like Brits going on holiday to Germany... don’t mention the war... it’s special operation. Else risk jail
It is a special military operation. The definition is legal. There are limits and objectives. It is not a war against Ukraine as a country. There is no all out declaration of war in the Duma. Russians are very legally minded like this.
Of course they are. No brutal kleptocracy here. Now, which super yacht shall I sip expensive western champagne on this weekend ? How many ‘girls’ shall we arrange? Where did I get my billions from? Questions like that and you may end up dead comrade. Can I fix you a cup of tea? "How many billionaires are there in the United States who own yachts? How do wall street billionaires get their billions..... Are you going to compare Russia as a kleptocracy to the rival super power of the United States whom you are an apologist for.... You think the EU is squeaky clean with its financial set up, perhaps talk to Berlusconi and his under age girls who we know partied on his yacht alongside EU politicians.. You are a sheep, go back to your flock and your safe space | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"What irritates me is we hear absolutely nothing of the russian side in the current conflict. Russian media has been banned, which i find outrageous, and we never hear anybody in this part of the world on tv genuinely debate putins reasons for the conflict. All we get is 'putin bad, ukraine good' shoved down our throats constantly. Why cant we hear both sides and then make up our own minds? " Putin's letter declaring war is available if you want to read it It's all sunshine, lollipops and the intent to commit genocide against Ukraine  | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"What irritates me is we hear absolutely nothing of the russian side in the current conflict. Russian media has been banned, which i find outrageous, and we never hear anybody in this part of the world on tv genuinely debate putins reasons for the conflict. All we get is 'putin bad, ukraine good' shoved down our throats constantly. Why cant we hear both sides and then make up our own minds? Putin's letter declaring war is available if you want to read it It's all sunshine, lollipops and the intent to commit genocide against Ukraine "Well his belief is that the ukrainian govt is persecuting ethnic russions in eastern ukraine. Is this happening? Or is he wrong? Ive never heard that discussed anywhere in western media | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"What irritates me is we hear absolutely nothing of the russian side in the current conflict. Russian media has been banned, which i find outrageous, and we never hear anybody in this part of the world on tv genuinely debate putins reasons for the conflict. All we get is 'putin bad, ukraine good' shoved down our throats constantly. Why cant we hear both sides and then make up our own minds? " Is it to do with the ban on journalists using the word ‘war’ if reporting from Russia? With a 15 year prison sentence I believe? And we all know what that means in Russia I would like to see reporting from Moscow and St Petersburg, it would be interesting to see what Russians are feeling / thinking. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"What irritates me is we hear absolutely nothing of the russian side in the current conflict. Russian media has been banned, which i find outrageous, and we never hear anybody in this part of the world on tv genuinely debate putins reasons for the conflict. All we get is 'putin bad, ukraine good' shoved down our throats constantly. Why cant we hear both sides and then make up our own minds? Putin's letter declaring war is available if you want to read it It's all sunshine, lollipops and the intent to commit genocide against Ukraine
Well his belief is that the ukrainian govt is persecuting ethnic russions in eastern ukraine. Is this happening? Or is he wrong?
Ive never heard that discussed anywhere in western media"Do your own research, maybe. Putin's letter, and various reactions from scholars from numerous countries, is all over the place. One view that consistently arises is that Russia is using USSR erasure of culture to deny Russian speaking Ukrainians their identity. Which would explain why, when Russia invaded Russian speaking areas, Putin's prediction did not come to pass. He predicted the tanks would be met with roses. The citizens fought back, waving Ukrainian flags, and yes speaking Russian. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"What irritates me is we hear absolutely nothing of the russian side in the current conflict. Russian media has been banned, which i find outrageous, and we never hear anybody in this part of the world on tv genuinely debate putins reasons for the conflict. All we get is 'putin bad, ukraine good' shoved down our throats constantly. Why cant we hear both sides and then make up our own minds? Putin's letter declaring war is available if you want to read it It's all sunshine, lollipops and the intent to commit genocide against Ukraine
Well his belief is that the ukrainian govt is persecuting ethnic russions in eastern ukraine. Is this happening? Or is he wrong?
Ive never heard that discussed anywhere in western media
Do your own research, maybe. Putin's letter, and various reactions from scholars from numerous countries, is all over the place. One view that consistently arises is that Russia is using USSR erasure of culture to deny Russian speaking Ukrainians their identity.
Which would explain why, when Russia invaded Russian speaking areas, Putin's prediction did not come to pass. He predicted the tanks would be met with roses.
The citizens fought back, waving Ukrainian flags, and yes speaking Russian."How do we know we're not just being fed propaganda though? That would be an easy picture for any media outlet to portray. I try to do my own research but im still baffled why you never hear genuine debate re putins motivations. All you hear is condemnation as if his motivations dont even dare be discussed. Why is that? | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"What irritates me is we hear absolutely nothing of the russian side in the current conflict. Russian media has been banned, which i find outrageous, and we never hear anybody in this part of the world on tv genuinely debate putins reasons for the conflict. All we get is 'putin bad, ukraine good' shoved down our throats constantly. Why cant we hear both sides and then make up our own minds? Putin's letter declaring war is available if you want to read it It's all sunshine, lollipops and the intent to commit genocide against Ukraine
Well his belief is that the ukrainian govt is persecuting ethnic russions in eastern ukraine. Is this happening? Or is he wrong?
Ive never heard that discussed anywhere in western media
Do your own research, maybe. Putin's letter, and various reactions from scholars from numerous countries, is all over the place. One view that consistently arises is that Russia is using USSR erasure of culture to deny Russian speaking Ukrainians their identity.
Which would explain why, when Russia invaded Russian speaking areas, Putin's prediction did not come to pass. He predicted the tanks would be met with roses.
The citizens fought back, waving Ukrainian flags, and yes speaking Russian.
How do we know we're not just being fed propaganda though? That would be an easy picture for any media outlet to portray.
I try to do my own research but im still baffled why you never hear genuine debate re putins motivations. All you hear is condemnation as if his motivations dont even dare be discussed. Why is that? "So have you read Putin's letter? What do you think of it and why? I think condemnation is universal because attempted genocide is bad | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"What irritates me is we hear absolutely nothing of the russian side in the current conflict. Russian media has been banned, which i find outrageous, and we never hear anybody in this part of the world on tv genuinely debate putins reasons for the conflict. All we get is 'putin bad, ukraine good' shoved down our throats constantly. Why cant we hear both sides and then make up our own minds? Putin's letter declaring war is available if you want to read it It's all sunshine, lollipops and the intent to commit genocide against Ukraine "When you say genocide.... You do realise it was the ukranians who were accused of genocide against ethnic Russians, which includes the killing of children... See alley of angels. A fact which the west and the Guardian newspaper conveniently ignores. Putin has no intention to commit genocide against the ukranians, to even think so is such clumsy and stupid thinking that even The Sun newspaper might hesitate in printing it despite the moronic nature of the British public to slavishly accept anything the media feeds to them without question. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"What irritates me is we hear absolutely nothing of the russian side in the current conflict. Russian media has been banned, which i find outrageous, and we never hear anybody in this part of the world on tv genuinely debate putins reasons for the conflict. All we get is 'putin bad, ukraine good' shoved down our throats constantly. Why cant we hear both sides and then make up our own minds? Putin's letter declaring war is available if you want to read it It's all sunshine, lollipops and the intent to commit genocide against Ukraine
Well his belief is that the ukrainian govt is persecuting ethnic russions in eastern ukraine. Is this happening? Or is he wrong?
Ive never heard that discussed anywhere in western media
Do your own research, maybe. Putin's letter, and various reactions from scholars from numerous countries, is all over the place. One view that consistently arises is that Russia is using USSR erasure of culture to deny Russian speaking Ukrainians their identity.
Which would explain why, when Russia invaded Russian speaking areas, Putin's prediction did not come to pass. He predicted the tanks would be met with roses.
The citizens fought back, waving Ukrainian flags, and yes speaking Russian.
How do we know we're not just being fed propaganda though? That would be an easy picture for any media outlet to portray.
I try to do my own research but im still baffled why you never hear genuine debate re putins motivations. All you hear is condemnation as if his motivations dont even dare be discussed. Why is that?
So have you read Putin's letter? What do you think of it and why?
I think condemnation is universal because attempted genocide is bad "I read the translations of it, yes. Was the main point not that he believes ukraine is run by nazis who are persecuting ethnic russians and we wants to get them out? That was my main take from it. Id love to hear some debate around that to be honest. Im also convinced of how gracious the ukraine govt and president are tbh | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"What irritates me is we hear absolutely nothing of the russian side in the current conflict. Russian media has been banned, which i find outrageous, and we never hear anybody in this part of the world on tv genuinely debate putins reasons for the conflict. All we get is 'putin bad, ukraine good' shoved down our throats constantly. Why cant we hear both sides and then make up our own minds? Putin's letter declaring war is available if you want to read it It's all sunshine, lollipops and the intent to commit genocide against Ukraine
When you say genocide....
You do realise it was the ukranians who were accused of genocide against ethnic Russians, which includes the killing of children... See alley of angels.
A fact which the west and the Guardian newspaper conveniently ignores.
Putin has no intention to commit genocide against the ukranians, to even think so is such clumsy and stupid thinking that even The Sun newspaper might hesitate in printing it despite the moronic nature of the British public to slavishly accept anything the media feeds to them without question. "Are you not a member of the British public yourself? | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"What irritates me is we hear absolutely nothing of the russian side in the current conflict. Russian media has been banned, which i find outrageous, and we never hear anybody in this part of the world on tv genuinely debate putins reasons for the conflict. All we get is 'putin bad, ukraine good' shoved down our throats constantly. Why cant we hear both sides and then make up our own minds? Putin's letter declaring war is available if you want to read it It's all sunshine, lollipops and the intent to commit genocide against Ukraine
Well his belief is that the ukrainian govt is persecuting ethnic russions in eastern ukraine. Is this happening? Or is he wrong?
Ive never heard that discussed anywhere in western media
Do your own research, maybe. Putin's letter, and various reactions from scholars from numerous countries, is all over the place. One view that consistently arises is that Russia is using USSR erasure of culture to deny Russian speaking Ukrainians their identity.
Which would explain why, when Russia invaded Russian speaking areas, Putin's prediction did not come to pass. He predicted the tanks would be met with roses.
The citizens fought back, waving Ukrainian flags, and yes speaking Russian.
How do we know we're not just being fed propaganda though? That would be an easy picture for any media outlet to portray.
I try to do my own research but im still baffled why you never hear genuine debate re putins motivations. All you hear is condemnation as if his motivations dont even dare be discussed. Why is that? "Putins motivations are clear... 1 defend Eastern Ukraine from ukranian neo nazis and the killing of civilians- ethnic cleansing operations as Ukraine refused to adhere to the Minsk accords 2 to stop nato expansion and us corruption in Ukraine, the biolabs, the spreading of anti Russian sentiment, the danger of nuclear weapons in Ukraine | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
Winston | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"What irritates me is we hear absolutely nothing of the russian side in the current conflict. Russian media has been banned, which i find outrageous, and we never hear anybody in this part of the world on tv genuinely debate putins reasons for the conflict. All we get is 'putin bad, ukraine good' shoved down our throats constantly. Why cant we hear both sides and then make up our own minds? Putin's letter declaring war is available if you want to read it It's all sunshine, lollipops and the intent to commit genocide against Ukraine
Well his belief is that the ukrainian govt is persecuting ethnic russions in eastern ukraine. Is this happening? Or is he wrong?
Ive never heard that discussed anywhere in western media
Do your own research, maybe. Putin's letter, and various reactions from scholars from numerous countries, is all over the place. One view that consistently arises is that Russia is using USSR erasure of culture to deny Russian speaking Ukrainians their identity.
Which would explain why, when Russia invaded Russian speaking areas, Putin's prediction did not come to pass. He predicted the tanks would be met with roses.
The citizens fought back, waving Ukrainian flags, and yes speaking Russian.
How do we know we're not just being fed propaganda though? That would be an easy picture for any media outlet to portray.
I try to do my own research but im still baffled why you never hear genuine debate re putins motivations. All you hear is condemnation as if his motivations dont even dare be discussed. Why is that?
So have you read Putin's letter? What do you think of it and why?
I think condemnation is universal because attempted genocide is bad
I read the translations of it, yes. Was the main point not that he believes ukraine is run by nazis who are persecuting ethnic russians and we wants to get them out? That was my main take from it.
Id love to hear some debate around that to be honest. Im also convinced of how gracious the ukraine govt and president are tbh"What does the term Nazi mean in this context? Some academics frame Russian rule in terms of "schizo-fascism", that they behave in fascist ways then accuse others of the same. So they scream Nazi to deflect from their own actions. What evidence is there of Nazi or similar activities within Ukraine, that had the kind of support that would justify the wholesale invasion of a country? Putin's letter rewrites Russian history - the sanitising of history is an imperial and fascist activity. In this instance, it attempts to claim that Ukraine is a subset of Russia. That in order to restore things to how they were, they need to bring Ukraine under Russian identity. This is a destruction of Ukraine, a form of genocide. (genocide we also see in other imperial countries which stamp out the languages and cultures of the oppressed) Evidence has emerged of inhumane treatment of Ukrainians during the conflict - the mutilated corpses found - and bombing of civilian sites. What purpose does that serve? I don't follow the media myself. But I'm not naive enough to fall for the bullshit that Russia are spewing, either. If you look closely, you see it echoed in Western culture wars and name calling. "I know you are but what am I" is in the halls of power - and in the case of Russia, has threatened us with nukes. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Comrade Haw Hawski still posting Russian propaganda I see.......
Winston "Why do you resort to things like that? Are people not allowed discuss things now without being smeared? If you disagree with him then put your counter argument forth. Where has this lack of tolerance come from? | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"What irritates me is we hear absolutely nothing of the russian side in the current conflict. Russian media has been banned, which i find outrageous, and we never hear anybody in this part of the world on tv genuinely debate putins reasons for the conflict. All we get is 'putin bad, ukraine good' shoved down our throats constantly. Why cant we hear both sides and then make up our own minds? Putin's letter declaring war is available if you want to read it It's all sunshine, lollipops and the intent to commit genocide against Ukraine
Well his belief is that the ukrainian govt is persecuting ethnic russions in eastern ukraine. Is this happening? Or is he wrong?
Ive never heard that discussed anywhere in western media
Do your own research, maybe. Putin's letter, and various reactions from scholars from numerous countries, is all over the place. One view that consistently arises is that Russia is using USSR erasure of culture to deny Russian speaking Ukrainians their identity.
Which would explain why, when Russia invaded Russian speaking areas, Putin's prediction did not come to pass. He predicted the tanks would be met with roses.
The citizens fought back, waving Ukrainian flags, and yes speaking Russian.
How do we know we're not just being fed propaganda though? That would be an easy picture for any media outlet to portray.
I try to do my own research but im still baffled why you never hear genuine debate re putins motivations. All you hear is condemnation as if his motivations dont even dare be discussed. Why is that?
So have you read Putin's letter? What do you think of it and why?
I think condemnation is universal because attempted genocide is bad
I read the translations of it, yes. Was the main point not that he believes ukraine is run by nazis who are persecuting ethnic russians and we wants to get them out? That was my main take from it.
Id love to hear some debate around that to be honest. Im also convinced of how gracious the ukraine govt and president are tbh
What does the term Nazi mean in this context? Some academics frame Russian rule in terms of "schizo-fascism", that they behave in fascist ways then accuse others of the same. So they scream Nazi to deflect from their own actions. What evidence is there of Nazi or similar activities within Ukraine, that had the kind of support that would justify the wholesale invasion of a country?
Putin's letter rewrites Russian history - the sanitising of history is an imperial and fascist activity. In this instance, it attempts to claim that Ukraine is a subset of Russia. That in order to restore things to how they were, they need to bring Ukraine under Russian identity. This is a destruction of Ukraine, a form of genocide. (genocide we also see in other imperial countries which stamp out the languages and cultures of the oppressed) Evidence has emerged of inhumane treatment of Ukrainians during the conflict - the mutilated corpses found - and bombing of civilian sites. What purpose does that serve?
I don't follow the media myself. But I'm not naive enough to fall for the bullshit that Russia are spewing, either. If you look closely, you see it echoed in Western culture wars and name calling. "I know you are but what am I" is in the halls of power - and in the case of Russia, has threatened us with nukes."But is he not claiming that russians in eastern ukraine are the ones being subject to genocide, by the ukrainian govt? Is there any element of truth to this? I never hear this discussed or explored by western media | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Comrade Haw Hawski still posting Russian propaganda I see.......
Winston
Why do you resort to things like that? Are people not allowed discuss things now without being smeared? If you disagree with him then put your counter argument forth.
Where has this lack of tolerance come from? "In some ways it's from the problem named in the OP. It's well documented that Russia employs people to stir up division on social media in the west. It's very difficult to tell, in some instances, genuine interaction from paid content. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"What irritates me is we hear absolutely nothing of the russian side in the current conflict. Russian media has been banned, which i find outrageous, and we never hear anybody in this part of the world on tv genuinely debate putins reasons for the conflict. All we get is 'putin bad, ukraine good' shoved down our throats constantly. Why cant we hear both sides and then make up our own minds? Putin's letter declaring war is available if you want to read it It's all sunshine, lollipops and the intent to commit genocide against Ukraine
Well his belief is that the ukrainian govt is persecuting ethnic russions in eastern ukraine. Is this happening? Or is he wrong?
Ive never heard that discussed anywhere in western media
Do your own research, maybe. Putin's letter, and various reactions from scholars from numerous countries, is all over the place. One view that consistently arises is that Russia is using USSR erasure of culture to deny Russian speaking Ukrainians their identity.
Which would explain why, when Russia invaded Russian speaking areas, Putin's prediction did not come to pass. He predicted the tanks would be met with roses.
The citizens fought back, waving Ukrainian flags, and yes speaking Russian.
How do we know we're not just being fed propaganda though? That would be an easy picture for any media outlet to portray.
I try to do my own research but im still baffled why you never hear genuine debate re putins motivations. All you hear is condemnation as if his motivations dont even dare be discussed. Why is that?
So have you read Putin's letter? What do you think of it and why?
I think condemnation is universal because attempted genocide is bad
I read the translations of it, yes. Was the main point not that he believes ukraine is run by nazis who are persecuting ethnic russians and we wants to get them out? That was my main take from it.
Id love to hear some debate around that to be honest. Im also convinced of how gracious the ukraine govt and president are tbh
What does the term Nazi mean in this context? Some academics frame Russian rule in terms of "schizo-fascism", that they behave in fascist ways then accuse others of the same. So they scream Nazi to deflect from their own actions. What evidence is there of Nazi or similar activities within Ukraine, that had the kind of support that would justify the wholesale invasion of a country?
Putin's letter rewrites Russian history - the sanitising of history is an imperial and fascist activity. In this instance, it attempts to claim that Ukraine is a subset of Russia. That in order to restore things to how they were, they need to bring Ukraine under Russian identity. This is a destruction of Ukraine, a form of genocide. (genocide we also see in other imperial countries which stamp out the languages and cultures of the oppressed) Evidence has emerged of inhumane treatment of Ukrainians during the conflict - the mutilated corpses found - and bombing of civilian sites. What purpose does that serve?
I don't follow the media myself. But I'm not naive enough to fall for the bullshit that Russia are spewing, either. If you look closely, you see it echoed in Western culture wars and name calling. "I know you are but what am I" is in the halls of power - and in the case of Russia, has threatened us with nukes.
But is he not claiming that russians in eastern ukraine are the ones being subject to genocide, by the ukrainian govt? Is there any element of truth to this?
I never hear this discussed or explored by western media"He is claiming this. My understanding is that this is not true. (I have no idea what the media are saying, I don't follow it at all) I'm not claiming Ukraine is perfect, but my suspicion, following some sources reasonably closely, is that this is Russia deflecting their sins onto others. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Comrade Haw Hawski still posting Russian propaganda I see.......
Winston
Why do you resort to things like that? Are people not allowed discuss things now without being smeared? If you disagree with him then put your counter argument forth.
Where has this lack of tolerance come from?
In some ways it's from the problem named in the OP. It's well documented that Russia employs people to stir up division on social media in the west. It's very difficult to tell, in some instances, genuine interaction from paid content."Well so what if they do? We're all grown ups, we can all make up our own minds. Thats no excuse for smearing people you just dont agree with | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"What irritates me is we hear absolutely nothing of the russian side in the current conflict. Russian media has been banned, which i find outrageous, and we never hear anybody in this part of the world on tv genuinely debate putins reasons for the conflict. All we get is 'putin bad, ukraine good' shoved down our throats constantly. Why cant we hear both sides and then make up our own minds? Putin's letter declaring war is available if you want to read it It's all sunshine, lollipops and the intent to commit genocide against Ukraine
Well his belief is that the ukrainian govt is persecuting ethnic russions in eastern ukraine. Is this happening? Or is he wrong?
Ive never heard that discussed anywhere in western media
Do your own research, maybe. Putin's letter, and various reactions from scholars from numerous countries, is all over the place. One view that consistently arises is that Russia is using USSR erasure of culture to deny Russian speaking Ukrainians their identity.
Which would explain why, when Russia invaded Russian speaking areas, Putin's prediction did not come to pass. He predicted the tanks would be met with roses.
The citizens fought back, waving Ukrainian flags, and yes speaking Russian.
How do we know we're not just being fed propaganda though? That would be an easy picture for any media outlet to portray.
I try to do my own research but im still baffled why you never hear genuine debate re putins motivations. All you hear is condemnation as if his motivations dont even dare be discussed. Why is that?
So have you read Putin's letter? What do you think of it and why?
I think condemnation is universal because attempted genocide is bad
I read the translations of it, yes. Was the main point not that he believes ukraine is run by nazis who are persecuting ethnic russians and we wants to get them out? That was my main take from it.
Id love to hear some debate around that to be honest. Im also convinced of how gracious the ukraine govt and president are tbh
What does the term Nazi mean in this context? Some academics frame Russian rule in terms of "schizo-fascism", that they behave in fascist ways then accuse others of the same. So they scream Nazi to deflect from their own actions. What evidence is there of Nazi or similar activities within Ukraine, that had the kind of support that would justify the wholesale invasion of a country?
Putin's letter rewrites Russian history - the sanitising of history is an imperial and fascist activity. In this instance, it attempts to claim that Ukraine is a subset of Russia. That in order to restore things to how they were, they need to bring Ukraine under Russian identity. This is a destruction of Ukraine, a form of genocide. (genocide we also see in other imperial countries which stamp out the languages and cultures of the oppressed) Evidence has emerged of inhumane treatment of Ukrainians during the conflict - the mutilated corpses found - and bombing of civilian sites. What purpose does that serve?
I don't follow the media myself. But I'm not naive enough to fall for the bullshit that Russia are spewing, either. If you look closely, you see it echoed in Western culture wars and name calling. "I know you are but what am I" is in the halls of power - and in the case of Russia, has threatened us with nukes.
But is he not claiming that russians in eastern ukraine are the ones being subject to genocide, by the ukrainian govt? Is there any element of truth to this?
I never hear this discussed or explored by western media
He is claiming this.
My understanding is that this is not true. (I have no idea what the media are saying, I don't follow it at all)
I'm not claiming Ukraine is perfect, but my suspicion, following some sources reasonably closely, is that this is Russia deflecting their sins onto others."I am inclined to agree, but im not fully convinced. And the more i hear about the autocracy of the ukraine govt, the less convinced i become. Im also starting to get very sick of seeing your man on tv every day in his bloody green tshirts as if hes in the army | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Comrade Haw Hawski still posting Russian propaganda I see.......
Winston
Why do you resort to things like that? Are people not allowed discuss things now without being smeared? If you disagree with him then put your counter argument forth.
Where has this lack of tolerance come from?
In some ways it's from the problem named in the OP. It's well documented that Russia employs people to stir up division on social media in the west. It's very difficult to tell, in some instances, genuine interaction from paid content.
Well so what if they do? We're all grown ups, we can all make up our own minds. Thats no excuse for smearing people you just dont agree with"In some instances these false interactions have genuine consequences and stir up social upheaval. You will note I am talking in general terms about the phenomenon. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"What irritates me is we hear absolutely nothing of the russian side in the current conflict. Russian media has been banned, which i find outrageous, and we never hear anybody in this part of the world on tv genuinely debate putins reasons for the conflict. All we get is 'putin bad, ukraine good' shoved down our throats constantly. Why cant we hear both sides and then make up our own minds? Putin's letter declaring war is available if you want to read it It's all sunshine, lollipops and the intent to commit genocide against Ukraine
Well his belief is that the ukrainian govt is persecuting ethnic russions in eastern ukraine. Is this happening? Or is he wrong?
Ive never heard that discussed anywhere in western media
Do your own research, maybe. Putin's letter, and various reactions from scholars from numerous countries, is all over the place. One view that consistently arises is that Russia is using USSR erasure of culture to deny Russian speaking Ukrainians their identity.
Which would explain why, when Russia invaded Russian speaking areas, Putin's prediction did not come to pass. He predicted the tanks would be met with roses.
The citizens fought back, waving Ukrainian flags, and yes speaking Russian.
How do we know we're not just being fed propaganda though? That would be an easy picture for any media outlet to portray.
I try to do my own research but im still baffled why you never hear genuine debate re putins motivations. All you hear is condemnation as if his motivations dont even dare be discussed. Why is that?
So have you read Putin's letter? What do you think of it and why?
I think condemnation is universal because attempted genocide is bad
I read the translations of it, yes. Was the main point not that he believes ukraine is run by nazis who are persecuting ethnic russians and we wants to get them out? That was my main take from it.
Id love to hear some debate around that to be honest. Im also convinced of how gracious the ukraine govt and president are tbh
What does the term Nazi mean in this context? Some academics frame Russian rule in terms of "schizo-fascism", that they behave in fascist ways then accuse others of the same. So they scream Nazi to deflect from their own actions. What evidence is there of Nazi or similar activities within Ukraine, that had the kind of support that would justify the wholesale invasion of a country?
Putin's letter rewrites Russian history - the sanitising of history is an imperial and fascist activity. In this instance, it attempts to claim that Ukraine is a subset of Russia. That in order to restore things to how they were, they need to bring Ukraine under Russian identity. This is a destruction of Ukraine, a form of genocide. (genocide we also see in other imperial countries which stamp out the languages and cultures of the oppressed) Evidence has emerged of inhumane treatment of Ukrainians during the conflict - the mutilated corpses found - and bombing of civilian sites. What purpose does that serve?
I don't follow the media myself. But I'm not naive enough to fall for the bullshit that Russia are spewing, either. If you look closely, you see it echoed in Western culture wars and name calling. "I know you are but what am I" is in the halls of power - and in the case of Russia, has threatened us with nukes.
But is he not claiming that russians in eastern ukraine are the ones being subject to genocide, by the ukrainian govt? Is there any element of truth to this?
I never hear this discussed or explored by western media
He is claiming this.
My understanding is that this is not true. (I have no idea what the media are saying, I don't follow it at all)
I'm not claiming Ukraine is perfect, but my suspicion, following some sources reasonably closely, is that this is Russia deflecting their sins onto others.
I am inclined to agree, but im not fully convinced. And the more i hear about the autocracy of the ukraine govt, the less convinced i become. Im also starting to get very sick of seeing your man on tv every day in his bloody green tshirts as if hes in the army"My man? I'm Australian. What does Anthony Albanese have to do with anything? 
I've sought out reputable sources, I avoid the media at all costs. You do whatever suits you. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"What irritates me is we hear absolutely nothing of the russian side in the current conflict. Russian media has been banned, which i find outrageous, and we never hear anybody in this part of the world on tv genuinely debate putins reasons for the conflict. All we get is 'putin bad, ukraine good' shoved down our throats constantly. Why cant we hear both sides and then make up our own minds? Putin's letter declaring war is available if you want to read it It's all sunshine, lollipops and the intent to commit genocide against Ukraine
Well his belief is that the ukrainian govt is persecuting ethnic russions in eastern ukraine. Is this happening? Or is he wrong?
Ive never heard that discussed anywhere in western media
Do your own research, maybe. Putin's letter, and various reactions from scholars from numerous countries, is all over the place. One view that consistently arises is that Russia is using USSR erasure of culture to deny Russian speaking Ukrainians their identity.
Which would explain why, when Russia invaded Russian speaking areas, Putin's prediction did not come to pass. He predicted the tanks would be met with roses.
The citizens fought back, waving Ukrainian flags, and yes speaking Russian.
How do we know we're not just being fed propaganda though? That would be an easy picture for any media outlet to portray.
I try to do my own research but im still baffled why you never hear genuine debate re putins motivations. All you hear is condemnation as if his motivations dont even dare be discussed. Why is that?
So have you read Putin's letter? What do you think of it and why?
I think condemnation is universal because attempted genocide is bad
I read the translations of it, yes. Was the main point not that he believes ukraine is run by nazis who are persecuting ethnic russians and we wants to get them out? That was my main take from it.
Id love to hear some debate around that to be honest. Im also convinced of how gracious the ukraine govt and president are tbh
What does the term Nazi mean in this context? Some academics frame Russian rule in terms of "schizo-fascism", that they behave in fascist ways then accuse others of the same. So they scream Nazi to deflect from their own actions. What evidence is there of Nazi or similar activities within Ukraine, that had the kind of support that would justify the wholesale invasion of a country?
Putin's letter rewrites Russian history - the sanitising of history is an imperial and fascist activity. In this instance, it attempts to claim that Ukraine is a subset of Russia. That in order to restore things to how they were, they need to bring Ukraine under Russian identity. This is a destruction of Ukraine, a form of genocide. (genocide we also see in other imperial countries which stamp out the languages and cultures of the oppressed) Evidence has emerged of inhumane treatment of Ukrainians during the conflict - the mutilated corpses found - and bombing of civilian sites. What purpose does that serve?
I don't follow the media myself. But I'm not naive enough to fall for the bullshit that Russia are spewing, either. If you look closely, you see it echoed in Western culture wars and name calling. "I know you are but what am I" is in the halls of power - and in the case of Russia, has threatened us with nukes.
But is he not claiming that russians in eastern ukraine are the ones being subject to genocide, by the ukrainian govt? Is there any element of truth to this?
I never hear this discussed or explored by western media
He is claiming this.
My understanding is that this is not true. (I have no idea what the media are saying, I don't follow it at all)
I'm not claiming Ukraine is perfect, but my suspicion, following some sources reasonably closely, is that this is Russia deflecting their sins onto others.
I am inclined to agree, but im not fully convinced. And the more i hear about the autocracy of the ukraine govt, the less convinced i become. Im also starting to get very sick of seeing your man on tv every day in his bloody green tshirts as if hes in the army
My man? I'm Australian. What does Anthony Albanese have to do with anything?
I've sought out reputable sources, I avoid the media at all costs. You do whatever suits you. "Sorry, i dont mean your man as in specifically your guy...its more a colloquialism over here, i wasnt intending to attach him to you. 8 probably should have written it like 'yer man' | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"What irritates me is we hear absolutely nothing of the russian side in the current conflict. Russian media has been banned, which i find outrageous, and we never hear anybody in this part of the world on tv genuinely debate putins reasons for the conflict. All we get is 'putin bad, ukraine good' shoved down our throats constantly. Why cant we hear both sides and then make up our own minds? Putin's letter declaring war is available if you want to read it It's all sunshine, lollipops and the intent to commit genocide against Ukraine
Well his belief is that the ukrainian govt is persecuting ethnic russions in eastern ukraine. Is this happening? Or is he wrong?
Ive never heard that discussed anywhere in western media
Do your own research, maybe. Putin's letter, and various reactions from scholars from numerous countries, is all over the place. One view that consistently arises is that Russia is using USSR erasure of culture to deny Russian speaking Ukrainians their identity.
Which would explain why, when Russia invaded Russian speaking areas, Putin's prediction did not come to pass. He predicted the tanks would be met with roses.
The citizens fought back, waving Ukrainian flags, and yes speaking Russian.
How do we know we're not just being fed propaganda though? That would be an easy picture for any media outlet to portray.
I try to do my own research but im still baffled why you never hear genuine debate re putins motivations. All you hear is condemnation as if his motivations dont even dare be discussed. Why is that?
So have you read Putin's letter? What do you think of it and why?
I think condemnation is universal because attempted genocide is bad
I read the translations of it, yes. Was the main point not that he believes ukraine is run by nazis who are persecuting ethnic russians and we wants to get them out? That was my main take from it.
Id love to hear some debate around that to be honest. Im also convinced of how gracious the ukraine govt and president are tbh
What does the term Nazi mean in this context? Some academics frame Russian rule in terms of "schizo-fascism", that they behave in fascist ways then accuse others of the same. So they scream Nazi to deflect from their own actions. What evidence is there of Nazi or similar activities within Ukraine, that had the kind of support that would justify the wholesale invasion of a country?
Putin's letter rewrites Russian history - the sanitising of history is an imperial and fascist activity. In this instance, it attempts to claim that Ukraine is a subset of Russia. That in order to restore things to how they were, they need to bring Ukraine under Russian identity. This is a destruction of Ukraine, a form of genocide. (genocide we also see in other imperial countries which stamp out the languages and cultures of the oppressed) Evidence has emerged of inhumane treatment of Ukrainians during the conflict - the mutilated corpses found - and bombing of civilian sites. What purpose does that serve?
I don't follow the media myself. But I'm not naive enough to fall for the bullshit that Russia are spewing, either. If you look closely, you see it echoed in Western culture wars and name calling. "I know you are but what am I" is in the halls of power - and in the case of Russia, has threatened us with nukes."There are ACTUAL nazis in Ukraine. They wear Adolf hitler tattoos, they parade swastikas and SS symbols and they want to rid the country of ethnic Russians, gypsies, homosexuals and other undesirables This is a fact no matter how many rainbow flags or intellectual twaddle you want to write to dilute it...you are simply acting as an apologist for nazis. There is NO evidence for Russian war crimes, despite what The Guardian newspaper says or the BBC "reports" on the contrary there are numerous proven examples of ukranian forces engaged in war crimes. That's a fact. Putin has no ambitions outside of Ukraine in terms of the European theatre. His posture has always been defensive, the posture of NATO has always been offensive and imperialist. That's the difference. Russia has NEVER threatened us with nukes. What it has done is affirm that it holds the right to use nuclear weapons if Russian soil is attacked by NATO forces. Putin is not joking when he says this. If NATO does attack Russia then Putin will completely destroy NATO and the Liberal guardian reading virtue signalling western apologists and their rainbow flag waving sheep will suddenly wake up to the real world. Russia is Russia, the UK is the UK. Russia will NEVER be like the UK. No matter how much you don't like Putin. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"What irritates me is we hear absolutely nothing of the russian side in the current conflict. Russian media has been banned, which i find outrageous, and we never hear anybody in this part of the world on tv genuinely debate putins reasons for the conflict. All we get is 'putin bad, ukraine good' shoved down our throats constantly. Why cant we hear both sides and then make up our own minds? Putin's letter declaring war is available if you want to read it It's all sunshine, lollipops and the intent to commit genocide against Ukraine
Well his belief is that the ukrainian govt is persecuting ethnic russions in eastern ukraine. Is this happening? Or is he wrong?
Ive never heard that discussed anywhere in western media
Do your own research, maybe. Putin's letter, and various reactions from scholars from numerous countries, is all over the place. One view that consistently arises is that Russia is using USSR erasure of culture to deny Russian speaking Ukrainians their identity.
Which would explain why, when Russia invaded Russian speaking areas, Putin's prediction did not come to pass. He predicted the tanks would be met with roses.
The citizens fought back, waving Ukrainian flags, and yes speaking Russian.
How do we know we're not just being fed propaganda though? That would be an easy picture for any media outlet to portray.
I try to do my own research but im still baffled why you never hear genuine debate re putins motivations. All you hear is condemnation as if his motivations dont even dare be discussed. Why is that?
So have you read Putin's letter? What do you think of it and why?
I think condemnation is universal because attempted genocide is bad
I read the translations of it, yes. Was the main point not that he believes ukraine is run by nazis who are persecuting ethnic russians and we wants to get them out? That was my main take from it.
Id love to hear some debate around that to be honest. Im also convinced of how gracious the ukraine govt and president are tbh
What does the term Nazi mean in this context? Some academics frame Russian rule in terms of "schizo-fascism", that they behave in fascist ways then accuse others of the same. So they scream Nazi to deflect from their own actions. What evidence is there of Nazi or similar activities within Ukraine, that had the kind of support that would justify the wholesale invasion of a country?
Putin's letter rewrites Russian history - the sanitising of history is an imperial and fascist activity. In this instance, it attempts to claim that Ukraine is a subset of Russia. That in order to restore things to how they were, they need to bring Ukraine under Russian identity. This is a destruction of Ukraine, a form of genocide. (genocide we also see in other imperial countries which stamp out the languages and cultures of the oppressed) Evidence has emerged of inhumane treatment of Ukrainians during the conflict - the mutilated corpses found - and bombing of civilian sites. What purpose does that serve?
I don't follow the media myself. But I'm not naive enough to fall for the bullshit that Russia are spewing, either. If you look closely, you see it echoed in Western culture wars and name calling. "I know you are but what am I" is in the halls of power - and in the case of Russia, has threatened us with nukes.
But is he not claiming that russians in eastern ukraine are the ones being subject to genocide, by the ukrainian govt? Is there any element of truth to this?
I never hear this discussed or explored by western media
He is claiming this.
My understanding is that this is not true. (I have no idea what the media are saying, I don't follow it at all)
I'm not claiming Ukraine is perfect, but my suspicion, following some sources reasonably closely, is that this is Russia deflecting their sins onto others.
I am inclined to agree, but im not fully convinced. And the more i hear about the autocracy of the ukraine govt, the less convinced i become. Im also starting to get very sick of seeing your man on tv every day in his bloody green tshirts as if hes in the army
My man? I'm Australian. What does Anthony Albanese have to do with anything?
I've sought out reputable sources, I avoid the media at all costs. You do whatever suits you.
Sorry, i dont mean your man as in specifically your guy...its more a colloquialism over here, i wasnt intending to attach him to you. 8 probably should have written it like 'yer man' "Fair enough. I'm just following the line of evidence as best I can, aware of the rhetorical games at play and the bad faith actors out there. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"This guy is so funny. But he is right, 20,000 Nazi soldiers have been found hiding in the woods. Been dug in since 1943. " When quizzed on why they haven’t been challenged, a Russian officer said “they are far better equipped than we are”. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"This guy is so funny. But he is right, 20,000 Nazi soldiers have been found hiding in the woods. Been dug in since 1943. When quizzed on why they haven’t been challenged, a Russian officer said “they are far better equipped than we are”." | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Forget Russia, China is the new bad. " Porque no los dos? | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Forget Russia, China is the new bad. " I agree. The United States realises Ukraine is a lost cause, they have pumped 60 billion dollars into killing people and one thing has become clear which is Russia can fight. Not only can they fight but they are formidable in terms of their fighting capabilities, the United States realise that they could crush NATO forces if antagonised. Which is why they won't get involved directly. They prefer to let ukranians die. And dying they are, in vast numbers. So America is giving up and looking elsewhere, they have flirted with the idea of fighting Iran but Iran would more than likely defeat them and wipe out Israel. So instead they are now antagonising China and rolling out their rainbow flags and hysterical claims of human rights abuses to justify a showdown with a rival superpower. This is incredibly dangerous. China has nuclear weapons. The United States has nuclear weapons. If a conflict starts it will be a naval conflict in which the Chinese will probably sink a few aircraft carriers and kill 20,000 or more us navy personnel. What will us do in retaliation? You know the answer.... And chinas response The story has just written itself and yes Putin will support China. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"A few months ago shanghai had a prolonged lock down, everyone said it was an over reaction to covid. My own belief it was China preparing for a nuclear conflict with the united States. China is well aware of what the Americans are up to...and are preparing for it. They won't back down. " I agree china is batening down the hatches it will be a shock when mr jinping says come and have ago if you think your hard enough, just like when Mr putin said he will knock out the teeth of any foreign aggressor, the west will use the human rights abuse veil like they did with syria to save the so called abused look how that ended people dead and the qatar gas pipeline is still not connected to europe through syria. They have got to stop using so called human rights abuses to kill innocent people. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"A few months ago shanghai had a prolonged lock down, everyone said it was an over reaction to covid. My own belief it was China preparing for a nuclear conflict with the united States. China is well aware of what the Americans are up to...and are preparing for it. They won't back down. I agree china is batening down the hatches it will be a shock when mr jinping says come and have ago if you think your hard enough, just like when Mr putin said he will knock out the teeth of any foreign aggressor, the west will use the human rights abuse veil like they did with syria to save the so called abused look how that ended people dead and the qatar gas pipeline is still not connected to europe through syria. They have got to stop using so called human rights abuses to kill innocent people." The US is like a d*unk in a bar trying to start a fight. They found out that Russia is like Mike Tyson, and they will find out that China is like Bruce Lee. The only war America has won was against goat herders and desert nomads. They are since ww2 the most pathetic military in the world and a paper tiger, they couldn't even win in Afghanistan and have been humiliated repeatedly. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Comrade Haw Hawski still posting Russian propaganda I see.......
Winston
Why do you resort to things like that? Are people not allowed discuss things now without being smeared? If you disagree with him then put your counter argument forth.
Where has this lack of tolerance come from? "It's a play on words. During the second World War an English man constantly promoted German propaganda, he became known as Lord Haw Haw. Here we have someone peddling Russian propaganda. It seemed apt. People can discuss anything, within the site rules. Your colleague isn't discussing anything, he's merely posting Russian propaganda. Any attempt to engage and discuss is met with deflection and yet more propaganda. Winston | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"A few months ago shanghai had a prolonged lock down, everyone said it was an over reaction to covid. My own belief it was China preparing for a nuclear conflict with the united States. China is well aware of what the Americans are up to...and are preparing for it. They won't back down. I agree china is batening down the hatches it will be a shock when mr jinping says come and have ago if you think your hard enough, just like when Mr putin said he will knock out the teeth of any foreign aggressor, the west will use the human rights abuse veil like they did with syria to save the so called abused look how that ended people dead and the qatar gas pipeline is still not connected to europe through syria. They have got to stop using so called human rights abuses to kill innocent people. The US is like a d*unk in a bar trying to start a fight. They found out that Russia is like Mike Tyson, and they will find out that China is like Bruce Lee. The only war America has won was against goat herders and desert nomads. They are since ww2 the most pathetic military in the world and a paper tiger, they couldn't even win in Afghanistan and have been humiliated repeatedly. " Remind how the mighty Russian army fared in Afghanistan.
Winston | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"A few months ago shanghai had a prolonged lock down, everyone said it was an over reaction to covid. My own belief it was China preparing for a nuclear conflict with the united States. China is well aware of what the Americans are up to...and are preparing for it. They won't back down. I agree china is batening down the hatches it will be a shock when mr jinping says come and have ago if you think your hard enough, just like when Mr putin said he will knock out the teeth of any foreign aggressor, the west will use the human rights abuse veil like they did with syria to save the so called abused look how that ended people dead and the qatar gas pipeline is still not connected to europe through syria. They have got to stop using so called human rights abuses to kill innocent people. The US is like a d*unk in a bar trying to start a fight. They found out that Russia is like Mike Tyson, and they will find out that China is like Bruce Lee. The only war America has won was against goat herders and desert nomads. They are since ww2 the most pathetic military in the world and a paper tiger, they couldn't even win in Afghanistan and have been humiliated repeatedly. Remind how the mighty Russian army fared in Afghanistan.
Winston "War is a rating show for people who have never been. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"A few months ago shanghai had a prolonged lock down, everyone said it was an over reaction to covid. My own belief it was China preparing for a nuclear conflict with the united States. China is well aware of what the Americans are up to...and are preparing for it. They won't back down. I agree china is batening down the hatches it will be a shock when mr jinping says come and have ago if you think your hard enough, just like when Mr putin said he will knock out the teeth of any foreign aggressor, the west will use the human rights abuse veil like they did with syria to save the so called abused look how that ended people dead and the qatar gas pipeline is still not connected to europe through syria. They have got to stop using so called human rights abuses to kill innocent people. The US is like a d*unk in a bar trying to start a fight. They found out that Russia is like Mike Tyson, and they will find out that China is like Bruce Lee. The only war America has won was against goat herders and desert nomads. They are since ww2 the most pathetic military in the world and a paper tiger, they couldn't even win in Afghanistan and have been humiliated repeatedly. Remind how the mighty Russian army fared in Afghanistan.
Winston
War is a rating show for people who have never been.
"Yup. Winston | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"A few months ago shanghai had a prolonged lock down, everyone said it was an over reaction to covid. My own belief it was China preparing for a nuclear conflict with the united States. China is well aware of what the Americans are up to...and are preparing for it. They won't back down. I agree china is batening down the hatches it will be a shock when mr jinping says come and have ago if you think your hard enough, just like when Mr putin said he will knock out the teeth of any foreign aggressor, the west will use the human rights abuse veil like they did with syria to save the so called abused look how that ended people dead and the qatar gas pipeline is still not connected to europe through syria. They have got to stop using so called human rights abuses to kill innocent people. The US is like a d*unk in a bar trying to start a fight. They found out that Russia is like Mike Tyson, and they will find out that China is like Bruce Lee. The only war America has won was against goat herders and desert nomads. They are since ww2 the most pathetic military in the world and a paper tiger, they couldn't even win in Afghanistan and have been humiliated repeatedly. Remind how the mighty Russian army fared in Afghanistan.
Winston "The Russian army performed well in Afghanistan. Despite the US supplying the Afghans with sophisticated weaponry and it becoming a proxy war for us neo cons to pour money ans sponsor terrorists .the reason for Russian intervention was very different to that of the US. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"A few months ago shanghai had a prolonged lock down, everyone said it was an over reaction to covid. My own belief it was China preparing for a nuclear conflict with the united States. China is well aware of what the Americans are up to...and are preparing for it. They won't back down. I agree china is batening down the hatches it will be a shock when mr jinping says come and have ago if you think your hard enough, just like when Mr putin said he will knock out the teeth of any foreign aggressor, the west will use the human rights abuse veil like they did with syria to save the so called abused look how that ended people dead and the qatar gas pipeline is still not connected to europe through syria. They have got to stop using so called human rights abuses to kill innocent people. The US is like a d*unk in a bar trying to start a fight. They found out that Russia is like Mike Tyson, and they will find out that China is like Bruce Lee. The only war America has won was against goat herders and desert nomads. They are since ww2 the most pathetic military in the world and a paper tiger, they couldn't even win in Afghanistan and have been humiliated repeatedly. Remind how the mighty Russian army fared in Afghanistan.
Winston
The Russian army performed well in Afghanistan. Despite the US supplying the Afghans with sophisticated weaponry and it becoming a proxy war for us neo cons to pour money ans sponsor terrorists .the reason for Russian intervention was very different to that of the US.
"Losing over 15,000 troops, hundreds of aircraft and billions worth of other military equipment is doing well? Winston | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"A few months ago shanghai had a prolonged lock down, everyone said it was an over reaction to covid. My own belief it was China preparing for a nuclear conflict with the united States. China is well aware of what the Americans are up to...and are preparing for it. They won't back down. I agree china is batening down the hatches it will be a shock when mr jinping says come and have ago if you think your hard enough, just like when Mr putin said he will knock out the teeth of any foreign aggressor, the west will use the human rights abuse veil like they did with syria to save the so called abused look how that ended people dead and the qatar gas pipeline is still not connected to europe through syria. They have got to stop using so called human rights abuses to kill innocent people. The US is like a d*unk in a bar trying to start a fight. They found out that Russia is like Mike Tyson, and they will find out that China is like Bruce Lee. The only war America has won was against goat herders and desert nomads. They are since ww2 the most pathetic military in the world and a paper tiger, they couldn't even win in Afghanistan and have been humiliated repeatedly. Remind how the mighty Russian army fared in Afghanistan.
Winston
The Russian army performed well in Afghanistan. Despite the US supplying the Afghans with sophisticated weaponry and it becoming a proxy war for us neo cons to pour money ans sponsor terrorists .the reason for Russian intervention was very different to that of the US.
Losing over 15,000 troops, hundreds of aircraft and billions worth of other military equipment is doing well?
Winston"Put the Sun newspaper down. Even better throw it in the bin. You haven't a clue about modern warfare,nor have you about the situation in Ukraine. The ukranians are not goat herding shepherd's with a few ak47s, the ukranian military is arguably the strongest in Europe, bolstered by fanatical neo nazi batallions, supplied with the cream of US weapons and have years of fighting experience and have had time to prepare defences against a Russian incursion. The ukranians are some of the bravest fighters in the world and did outstanding work fighting against Hitler for the soviet union. The Russians are winning convincingly. Russian losses are well within manageable limits as is loss of equipment, most analysists put it at 10 to 1 in their favour and growing as the Ukraine forces are ground down. Ukranian military casualties are fast approaching 100,000 and more than likely now exceed that. The ukranian defences have been systematically broken down and the Russian advance has continued. Ukraine is now on its last lines of defence after that there are no holding points and thd Russians will be in open country. War is not a game, it is a bloody affair and in any war both sides will suffer when modern weaponry is employed. Russia only made one error and that was more than likely due to US intelligence manipulation, this was the belief that mayor's in the nw of Ukraine had declared pro Russian sentiments and would open towns to Russian forces. This was a trap and Russian columns were subject to several well organised ambushes. It is more than likely that the CIA funneled money to these majors to essentially bribe them into anti Russian stances, the zekensky regime has itself killed and arrested mayors expressing pro Russian sentiments. Russia has also chosen to conduct the operation in a humanitarian way, avoiding civilian casualties and the targetting of civilian infrastructure. This has hampered them especially in the early stages but the Russians are a disciplined and professesional army and see the ukranians as brothers United by culture and language. They have in most cases allowed the west to indulge in lies and propaganda and not retaliated instead just got on with their operation which they are winning and will continue to win until Ukraine surrender | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"A few months ago shanghai had a prolonged lock down, everyone said it was an over reaction to covid. My own belief it was China preparing for a nuclear conflict with the united States. China is well aware of what the Americans are up to...and are preparing for it. They won't back down. I agree china is batening down the hatches it will be a shock when mr jinping says come and have ago if you think your hard enough, just like when Mr putin said he will knock out the teeth of any foreign aggressor, the west will use the human rights abuse veil like they did with syria to save the so called abused look how that ended people dead and the qatar gas pipeline is still not connected to europe through syria. They have got to stop using so called human rights abuses to kill innocent people. The US is like a d*unk in a bar trying to start a fight. They found out that Russia is like Mike Tyson, and they will find out that China is like Bruce Lee. The only war America has won was against goat herders and desert nomads. They are since ww2 the most pathetic military in the world and a paper tiger, they couldn't even win in Afghanistan and have been humiliated repeatedly. Remind how the mighty Russian army fared in Afghanistan.
Winston
The Russian army performed well in Afghanistan. Despite the US supplying the Afghans with sophisticated weaponry and it becoming a proxy war for us neo cons to pour money ans sponsor terrorists .the reason for Russian intervention was very different to that of the US.
Losing over 15,000 troops, hundreds of aircraft and billions worth of other military equipment is doing well?
Winston
Put the Sun newspaper down. Even better throw it in the bin.
You haven't a clue about modern warfare,nor have you about the situation in Ukraine. The ukranians are not goat herding shepherd's with a few ak47s, the ukranian military is arguably the strongest in Europe, bolstered by fanatical neo nazi batallions, supplied with the cream of US weapons and have years of fighting experience and have had time to prepare defences against a Russian incursion. The ukranians are some of the bravest fighters in the world and did outstanding work fighting against Hitler for the soviet union.
The Russians are winning convincingly. Russian losses are well within manageable limits as is loss of equipment, most analysists put it at 10 to 1 in their favour and growing as the Ukraine forces are ground down. Ukranian military casualties are fast approaching 100,000 and more than likely now exceed that. The ukranian defences have been systematically broken down and the Russian advance has continued. Ukraine is now on its last lines of defence after that there are no holding points and thd Russians will be in open country.
War is not a game, it is a bloody affair and in any war both sides will suffer when modern weaponry is employed.
Russia only made one error and that was more than likely due to US intelligence manipulation, this was the belief that mayor's in the nw of Ukraine had declared pro Russian sentiments and would open towns to Russian forces. This was a trap and Russian columns were subject to several well organised ambushes. It is more than likely that the CIA funneled money to these majors to essentially bribe them into anti Russian stances, the zekensky regime has itself killed and arrested mayors expressing pro Russian sentiments.
Russia has also chosen to conduct the operation in a humanitarian way, avoiding civilian casualties and the targetting of civilian infrastructure. This has hampered them especially in the early stages but the Russians are a disciplined and professesional army and see the ukranians as brothers United by culture and language. They have in most cases allowed the west to indulge in lies and propaganda and not retaliated instead just got on with their operation which they are winning and will continue to win until Ukraine surrender
"I'm going to suggest I know a great deal about modern warfare. We were discussing Russian "success" in Afghanistan. Why have you moved from a discussion you opened (Afghanistan) to one about the Ukraine invasion? Winston | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Comrade Haw Hawski still posting Russian propaganda I see.......
Winston
Why do you resort to things like that? Are people not allowed discuss things now without being smeared? If you disagree with him then put your counter argument forth.
Where has this lack of tolerance come from?
It's a play on words.
During the second World War an English man constantly promoted German propaganda, he became known as Lord Haw Haw.
Here we have someone peddling Russian propaganda.
It seemed apt.
People can discuss anything, within the site rules.
Your colleague isn't discussing anything, he's merely posting Russian propaganda.
Any attempt to engage and discuss is met with deflection and yet more propaganda.
Winston "Hes putting forward an argument contrary to yours and many others. Thats not 'propaganda', its his opinion. He has as much a right to put it forward as you do yours | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Comrade Haw Hawski still posting Russian propaganda I see.......
Winston
Why do you resort to things like that? Are people not allowed discuss things now without being smeared? If you disagree with him then put your counter argument forth.
Where has this lack of tolerance come from?
It's a play on words.
During the second World War an English man constantly promoted German propaganda, he became known as Lord Haw Haw.
Here we have someone peddling Russian propaganda.
It seemed apt.
People can discuss anything, within the site rules.
Your colleague isn't discussing anything, he's merely posting Russian propaganda.
Any attempt to engage and discuss is met with deflection and yet more propaganda.
Winston
Hes putting forward an argument contrary to yours and many others. Thats not 'propaganda', its his opinion. He has as much a right to put it forward as you do yours"You've not read your colleagues posts then? Winston | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Comrade Haw Hawski still posting Russian propaganda I see.......
Winston
Why do you resort to things like that? Are people not allowed discuss things now without being smeared? If you disagree with him then put your counter argument forth.
Where has this lack of tolerance come from?
It's a play on words.
During the second World War an English man constantly promoted German propaganda, he became known as Lord Haw Haw.
Here we have someone peddling Russian propaganda.
It seemed apt.
People can discuss anything, within the site rules.
Your colleague isn't discussing anything, he's merely posting Russian propaganda.
Any attempt to engage and discuss is met with deflection and yet more propaganda.
Winston
Hes putting forward an argument contrary to yours and many others. Thats not 'propaganda', its his opinion. He has as much a right to put it forward as you do yours
You've not read your colleagues posts then?
Winston
"I have read them. They are largely pro russian in their nature. I fail to see how that is 'propaganda'. Your posts are largely anti russian. Is that also 'propaganda'? | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Comrade Haw Hawski still posting Russian propaganda I see.......
Winston
Why do you resort to things like that? Are people not allowed discuss things now without being smeared? If you disagree with him then put your counter argument forth.
Where has this lack of tolerance come from?
It's a play on words.
During the second World War an English man constantly promoted German propaganda, he became known as Lord Haw Haw.
Here we have someone peddling Russian propaganda.
It seemed apt.
People can discuss anything, within the site rules.
Your colleague isn't discussing anything, he's merely posting Russian propaganda.
Any attempt to engage and discuss is met with deflection and yet more propaganda.
Winston
Hes putting forward an argument contrary to yours and many others. Thats not 'propaganda', its his opinion. He has as much a right to put it forward as you do yours
You've not read your colleagues posts then?
Winston
I have read them. They are largely pro russian in their nature. I fail to see how that is 'propaganda'. Your posts are largely anti russian. Is that also 'propaganda'? "Also, unsure why you keep referring to him as my 'colleague'. Youre probably trying to appear clever i presume | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"A few months ago shanghai had a prolonged lock down, everyone said it was an over reaction to covid. My own belief it was China preparing for a nuclear conflict with the united States. China is well aware of what the Americans are up to...and are preparing for it. They won't back down. I agree china is batening down the hatches it will be a shock when mr jinping says come and have ago if you think your hard enough, just like when Mr putin said he will knock out the teeth of any foreign aggressor, the west will use the human rights abuse veil like they did with syria to save the so called abused look how that ended people dead and the qatar gas pipeline is still not connected to europe through syria. They have got to stop using so called human rights abuses to kill innocent people. The US is like a d*unk in a bar trying to start a fight. They found out that Russia is like Mike Tyson, and they will find out that China is like Bruce Lee. The only war America has won was against goat herders and desert nomads. They are since ww2 the most pathetic military in the world and a paper tiger, they couldn't even win in Afghanistan and have been humiliated repeatedly. Remind how the mighty Russian army fared in Afghanistan.
Winston
The Russian army performed well in Afghanistan. Despite the US supplying the Afghans with sophisticated weaponry and it becoming a proxy war for us neo cons to pour money ans sponsor terrorists .the reason for Russian intervention was very different to that of the US.
Losing over 15,000 troops, hundreds of aircraft and billions worth of other military equipment is doing well?
Winston
Put the Sun newspaper down. Even better throw it in the bin.
You haven't a clue about modern warfare,nor have you about the situation in Ukraine. The ukranians are not goat herding shepherd's with a few ak47s, the ukranian military is arguably the strongest in Europe, bolstered by fanatical neo nazi batallions, supplied with the cream of US weapons and have years of fighting experience and have had time to prepare defences against a Russian incursion. The ukranians are some of the bravest fighters in the world and did outstanding work fighting against Hitler for the soviet union.
The Russians are winning convincingly. Russian losses are well within manageable limits as is loss of equipment, most analysists put it at 10 to 1 in their favour and growing as the Ukraine forces are ground down. Ukranian military casualties are fast approaching 100,000 and more than likely now exceed that. The ukranian defences have been systematically broken down and the Russian advance has continued. Ukraine is now on its last lines of defence after that there are no holding points and thd Russians will be in open country.
War is not a game, it is a bloody affair and in any war both sides will suffer when modern weaponry is employed.
Russia only made one error and that was more than likely due to US intelligence manipulation, this was the belief that mayor's in the nw of Ukraine had declared pro Russian sentiments and would open towns to Russian forces. This was a trap and Russian columns were subject to several well organised ambushes. It is more than likely that the CIA funneled money to these majors to essentially bribe them into anti Russian stances, the zekensky regime has itself killed and arrested mayors expressing pro Russian sentiments.
Russia has also chosen to conduct the operation in a humanitarian way, avoiding civilian casualties and the targetting of civilian infrastructure. This has hampered them especially in the early stages but the Russians are a disciplined and professesional army and see the ukranians as brothers United by culture and language. They have in most cases allowed the west to indulge in lies and propaganda and not retaliated instead just got on with their operation which they are winning and will continue to win until Ukraine surrender
I'm going to suggest I know a great deal about modern warfare.
We were discussing Russian "success" in Afghanistan.
Why have you moved from a discussion you opened (Afghanistan) to one about the Ukraine invasion?
Winston
"Russia controlled Afghanistan successfully for ten years. Despite America using the country to wage a savage proxy war and sponsoring an emergent Islamic uprising the CIA essentially sponsored the Islamic terrorists of the future, Afghanistan is not Russian territory and they never had any intention of making it so. They were there to support and back the communist govt who called for help. They were not the invaders in the imperialist sense. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"It's an interesting discussion with no easy answers - freedom of expression versus certainty in institutions and upholding the fabric of society on which we all rely. I suspect things will get worse before they get better, to be honest, and I'm sure Putin is delighted." On the contrary Putin is extremely saddened by the reckless behaviour of the west, nato aggression and the general stupidity of the EU who are some of the most corrupt, entitled and out of touch politicians in the world. This is why they are being voted out by an electorate which is fed up of their mishandling of the situation and general corruption. Russia and Europe was in a toxic relationship. Europe has completely betrayed Russia and now Russia will dump Europe and look elsewhere, India, the global south, China, Africa Iran etc . This will mean that Europe will FOREVER pay higher energy prices and will face severe economic hardship from now on. Its not going to get any better for Europe. If anything its going to get worse. There is no coming back, Russia has walked away from the toxicity of Europe for good. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"What irritates me is we hear absolutely nothing of the russian side in the current conflict. Russian media has been banned, which i find outrageous, and we never hear anybody in this part of the world on tv genuinely debate putins reasons for the conflict. All we get is 'putin bad, ukraine good' shoved down our throats constantly. Why cant we hear both sides and then make up our own minds? Putin's letter declaring war is available if you want to read it It's all sunshine, lollipops and the intent to commit genocide against Ukraine
Well his belief is that the ukrainian govt is persecuting ethnic russions in eastern ukraine. Is this happening? Or is he wrong?
Ive never heard that discussed anywhere in western media"He could have called for a joint Russia/UN peacekeeping force but Putin has no interest in persecuted ethnic Russians indeed he vetoed such a request. People, they mean nothing to him, all he cares for is territory and power. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"What irritates me is we hear absolutely nothing of the russian side in the current conflict. Russian media has been banned, which i find outrageous, and we never hear anybody in this part of the world on tv genuinely debate putins reasons for the conflict. All we get is 'putin bad, ukraine good' shoved down our throats constantly. Why cant we hear both sides and then make up our own minds? Putin's letter declaring war is available if you want to read it It's all sunshine, lollipops and the intent to commit genocide against Ukraine
Well his belief is that the ukrainian govt is persecuting ethnic russions in eastern ukraine. Is this happening? Or is he wrong?
Ive never heard that discussed anywhere in western media
Do your own research, maybe. Putin's letter, and various reactions from scholars from numerous countries, is all over the place. One view that consistently arises is that Russia is using USSR erasure of culture to deny Russian speaking Ukrainians their identity.
Which would explain why, when Russia invaded Russian speaking areas, Putin's prediction did not come to pass. He predicted the tanks would be met with roses.
The citizens fought back, waving Ukrainian flags, and yes speaking Russian.
How do we know we're not just being fed propaganda though? That would be an easy picture for any media outlet to portray.
I try to do my own research but im still baffled why you never hear genuine debate re putins motivations. All you hear is condemnation as if his motivations dont even dare be discussed. Why is that?
So have you read Putin's letter? What do you think of it and why?
I think condemnation is universal because attempted genocide is bad
I read the translations of it, yes. Was the main point not that he believes ukraine is run by nazis who are persecuting ethnic russians and we wants to get them out? That was my main take from it.
Id love to hear some debate around that to be honest. Im also convinced of how gracious the ukraine govt and president are tbh
What does the term Nazi mean in this context? Some academics frame Russian rule in terms of "schizo-fascism", that they behave in fascist ways then accuse others of the same. So they scream Nazi to deflect from their own actions. What evidence is there of Nazi or similar activities within Ukraine, that had the kind of support that would justify the wholesale invasion of a country?
Putin's letter rewrites Russian history - the sanitising of history is an imperial and fascist activity. In this instance, it attempts to claim that Ukraine is a subset of Russia. That in order to restore things to how they were, they need to bring Ukraine under Russian identity. This is a destruction of Ukraine, a form of genocide. (genocide we also see in other imperial countries which stamp out the languages and cultures of the oppressed) Evidence has emerged of inhumane treatment of Ukrainians during the conflict - the mutilated corpses found - and bombing of civilian sites. What purpose does that serve?
I don't follow the media myself. But I'm not naive enough to fall for the bullshit that Russia are spewing, either. If you look closely, you see it echoed in Western culture wars and name calling. "I know you are but what am I" is in the halls of power - and in the case of Russia, has threatened us with nukes.
But is he not claiming that russians in eastern ukraine are the ones being subject to genocide, by the ukrainian govt? Is there any element of truth to this?
I never hear this discussed or explored by western media"Maybe because there is no element of truth in it. I did think about explaining the fact that it's Russia that has invaded Ukraine and started bombing, killing, r@ping, mutilating bodies, kidn@pping women and children and taking them back to Russia, and meanwhile threatening to start throwing nukes around if anybody comes to the aid of the Ukrainians. And that the Ukrainians are basically just doing what you would if some other country sent forces into your town who starting killing everyone. But it seems that there are a few people on Fab who have immense difficulty in understanding reality, or maybe they are just actually a propaganda team based in Russia. So I won't bother explaining it, as there is no point in wasting my time typing a load of stuff that the Putin apologists are just going to ignore or twist. Also, yes my description of what Russia is doing to Ukraine is basically the same as what the USA and the UK have done in a bunch of middle eastern countries, and what the English did in Ireland a couple of hundred years ago, and what Japan did to Korea at the start of the 20th Century, and what Alexander the great did to India in the 7th Century, and what a hundred other invaders have done to a hundred other populations throughout history. It was wrong then, it is wrong now. Putin is the oppressor, blaming the oppressed because "they made me kill them, I only did it to protect them". | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Comrade Haw Hawski still posting Russian propaganda I see.......
Winston
Why do you resort to things like that? Are people not allowed discuss things now without being smeared? If you disagree with him then put your counter argument forth.
Where has this lack of tolerance come from? "If like Winston you have been following for a few days it’s quite clear the author is on Putins payrol. There should be no tolerance. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
" Also, yes my description of what Russia is doing to Ukraine is basically the same as what the USA and the UK have done in a bunch of middle eastern countries, and what the English did in Ireland a couple of hundred years ago, and what Japan did to Korea at the start of the 20th Century, and what Alexander the great did to India in the 7th Century, and what a hundred other invaders have done to a hundred other populations throughout history. It was wrong then, it is wrong now. Putin is the oppressor, blaming the oppressed because "they made me kill them, I only did it to protect them"." Yes. It's definitely sins many countries have committed and need to atone for. After we stop it happening right now. Whether the Russians do it or anyone else, including ourselves. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"What irritates me is we hear absolutely nothing of the russian side in the current conflict. Russian media has been banned, which i find outrageous, and we never hear anybody in this part of the world on tv genuinely debate putins reasons for the conflict. All we get is 'putin bad, ukraine good' shoved down our throats constantly. Why cant we hear both sides and then make up our own minds? Putin's letter declaring war is available if you want to read it It's all sunshine, lollipops and the intent to commit genocide against Ukraine
Well his belief is that the ukrainian govt is persecuting ethnic russions in eastern ukraine. Is this happening? Or is he wrong?
Ive never heard that discussed anywhere in western media
Do your own research, maybe. Putin's letter, and various reactions from scholars from numerous countries, is all over the place. One view that consistently arises is that Russia is using USSR erasure of culture to deny Russian speaking Ukrainians their identity.
Which would explain why, when Russia invaded Russian speaking areas, Putin's prediction did not come to pass. He predicted the tanks would be met with roses.
The citizens fought back, waving Ukrainian flags, and yes speaking Russian.
How do we know we're not just being fed propaganda though? That would be an easy picture for any media outlet to portray.
I try to do my own research but im still baffled why you never hear genuine debate re putins motivations. All you hear is condemnation as if his motivations dont even dare be discussed. Why is that?
So have you read Putin's letter? What do you think of it and why?
I think condemnation is universal because attempted genocide is bad
I read the translations of it, yes. Was the main point not that he believes ukraine is run by nazis who are persecuting ethnic russians and we wants to get them out? That was my main take from it.
Id love to hear some debate around that to be honest. Im also convinced of how gracious the ukraine govt and president are tbh
What does the term Nazi mean in this context? Some academics frame Russian rule in terms of "schizo-fascism", that they behave in fascist ways then accuse others of the same. So they scream Nazi to deflect from their own actions. What evidence is there of Nazi or similar activities within Ukraine, that had the kind of support that would justify the wholesale invasion of a country?
Putin's letter rewrites Russian history - the sanitising of history is an imperial and fascist activity. In this instance, it attempts to claim that Ukraine is a subset of Russia. That in order to restore things to how they were, they need to bring Ukraine under Russian identity. This is a destruction of Ukraine, a form of genocide. (genocide we also see in other imperial countries which stamp out the languages and cultures of the oppressed) Evidence has emerged of inhumane treatment of Ukrainians during the conflict - the mutilated corpses found - and bombing of civilian sites. What purpose does that serve?
I don't follow the media myself. But I'm not naive enough to fall for the bullshit that Russia are spewing, either. If you look closely, you see it echoed in Western culture wars and name calling. "I know you are but what am I" is in the halls of power - and in the case of Russia, has threatened us with nukes.
But is he not claiming that russians in eastern ukraine are the ones being subject to genocide, by the ukrainian govt? Is there any element of truth to this?
I never hear this discussed or explored by western media
Maybe because there is no element of truth in it.
I did think about explaining the fact that it's Russia that has invaded Ukraine and started bombing, killing, r@ping, mutilating bodies, kidn@pping women and children and taking them back to Russia, and meanwhile threatening to start throwing nukes around if anybody comes to the aid of the Ukrainians. And that the Ukrainians are basically just doing what you would if some other country sent forces into your town who starting killing everyone.
But it seems that there are a few people on Fab who have immense difficulty in understanding reality, or maybe they are just actually a propaganda team based in Russia. So I won't bother explaining it, as there is no point in wasting my time typing a load of stuff that the Putin apologists are just going to ignore or twist.
Also, yes my description of what Russia is doing to Ukraine is basically the same as what the USA and the UK have done in a bunch of middle eastern countries, and what the English did in Ireland a couple of hundred years ago, and what Japan did to Korea at the start of the 20th Century, and what Alexander the great did to India in the 7th Century, and what a hundred other invaders have done to a hundred other populations throughout history. It was wrong then, it is wrong now.
Putin is the oppressor, blaming the oppressed because "they made me kill them, I only did it to protect them"." | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"It's an interesting discussion with no easy answers - freedom of expression versus certainty in institutions and upholding the fabric of society on which we all rely. I suspect things will get worse before they get better, to be honest, and I'm sure Putin is delighted. On the contrary Putin is extremely saddened by the reckless behaviour of the west, nato aggression and the general stupidity of the EU who are some of the most corrupt, entitled and out of touch politicians in the world. This is why they are being voted out by an electorate which is fed up of their mishandling of the situation and general corruption. Russia and Europe was in a toxic relationship. Europe has completely betrayed Russia and now Russia will dump Europe and look elsewhere, India, the global south, China, Africa Iran etc . This will mean that Europe will FOREVER pay higher energy prices and will face severe economic hardship from now on. Its not going to get any better for Europe. If anything its going to get worse. There is no coming back, Russia has walked away from the toxicity of Europe for good. " Russia should indeed look towards China, that way at least you will see the knife coming rather than getting it in the back. Russia could and should prosper as an ally of the West but instead Putin has chosen a self destructive path that threatens us all. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"What irritates me is we hear absolutely nothing of the russian side in the current conflict. Russian media has been banned, which i find outrageous, and we never hear anybody in this part of the world on tv genuinely debate putins reasons for the conflict. All we get is 'putin bad, ukraine good' shoved down our throats constantly. Why cant we hear both sides and then make up our own minds? Putin's letter declaring war is available if you want to read it It's all sunshine, lollipops and the intent to commit genocide against Ukraine
Well his belief is that the ukrainian govt is persecuting ethnic russions in eastern ukraine. Is this happening? Or is he wrong?
Ive never heard that discussed anywhere in western media
He could have called for a joint Russia/UN peacekeeping force but Putin has no interest in persecuted ethnic Russians indeed he vetoed such a request. People, they mean nothing to him, all he cares for is territory and power. "That is a lie. Putin and lavrov have been calling for the international community to take action over ukranian war crimes in the donbass for 8 long years but every time the United States has blocked them whilst covertly supporting and funding the neo nazi thugs to murder ethnic Russians | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Comrade Haw Hawski still posting Russian propaganda I see.......
Winston
Why do you resort to things like that? Are people not allowed discuss things now without being smeared? If you disagree with him then put your counter argument forth.
Where has this lack of tolerance come from?
It's a play on words.
During the second World War an English man constantly promoted German propaganda, he became known as Lord Haw Haw.
Here we have someone peddling Russian propaganda.
It seemed apt.
People can discuss anything, within the site rules.
Your colleague isn't discussing anything, he's merely posting Russian propaganda.
Any attempt to engage and discuss is met with deflection and yet more propaganda.
Winston "Worth remembering also what happen to Lord Haw Haw. His radio broadcasts promoted hate and urged insurrection. He was arrested as a Nazi collaborator and apologist during the time of war, was tried and convicted as a traitor, and received the death penalty. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"What irritates me is we hear absolutely nothing of the russian side in the current conflict. Russian media has been banned, which i find outrageous, and we never hear anybody in this part of the world on tv genuinely debate putins reasons for the conflict. All we get is 'putin bad, ukraine good' shoved down our throats constantly. Why cant we hear both sides and then make up our own minds? Putin's letter declaring war is available if you want to read it It's all sunshine, lollipops and the intent to commit genocide against Ukraine
Well his belief is that the ukrainian govt is persecuting ethnic russions in eastern ukraine. Is this happening? Or is he wrong?
Ive never heard that discussed anywhere in western media
Do your own research, maybe. Putin's letter, and various reactions from scholars from numerous countries, is all over the place. One view that consistently arises is that Russia is using USSR erasure of culture to deny Russian speaking Ukrainians their identity.
Which would explain why, when Russia invaded Russian speaking areas, Putin's prediction did not come to pass. He predicted the tanks would be met with roses.
The citizens fought back, waving Ukrainian flags, and yes speaking Russian.
How do we know we're not just being fed propaganda though? That would be an easy picture for any media outlet to portray.
I try to do my own research but im still baffled why you never hear genuine debate re putins motivations. All you hear is condemnation as if his motivations dont even dare be discussed. Why is that?
So have you read Putin's letter? What do you think of it and why?
I think condemnation is universal because attempted genocide is bad
I read the translations of it, yes. Was the main point not that he believes ukraine is run by nazis who are persecuting ethnic russians and we wants to get them out? That was my main take from it.
Id love to hear some debate around that to be honest. Im also convinced of how gracious the ukraine govt and president are tbh
What does the term Nazi mean in this context? Some academics frame Russian rule in terms of "schizo-fascism", that they behave in fascist ways then accuse others of the same. So they scream Nazi to deflect from their own actions. What evidence is there of Nazi or similar activities within Ukraine, that had the kind of support that would justify the wholesale invasion of a country?
Putin's letter rewrites Russian history - the sanitising of history is an imperial and fascist activity. In this instance, it attempts to claim that Ukraine is a subset of Russia. That in order to restore things to how they were, they need to bring Ukraine under Russian identity. This is a destruction of Ukraine, a form of genocide. (genocide we also see in other imperial countries which stamp out the languages and cultures of the oppressed) Evidence has emerged of inhumane treatment of Ukrainians during the conflict - the mutilated corpses found - and bombing of civilian sites. What purpose does that serve?
I don't follow the media myself. But I'm not naive enough to fall for the bullshit that Russia are spewing, either. If you look closely, you see it echoed in Western culture wars and name calling. "I know you are but what am I" is in the halls of power - and in the case of Russia, has threatened us with nukes.
But is he not claiming that russians in eastern ukraine are the ones being subject to genocide, by the ukrainian govt? Is there any element of truth to this?
I never hear this discussed or explored by western media
Maybe because there is no element of truth in it.
I did think about explaining the fact that it's Russia that has invaded Ukraine and started bombing, killing, r@ping, mutilating bodies, kidn@pping women and children and taking them back to Russia, and meanwhile threatening to start throwing nukes around if anybody comes to the aid of the Ukrainians. And that the Ukrainians are basically just doing what you would if some other country sent forces into your town who starting killing everyone.
But it seems that there are a few people on Fab who have immense difficulty in understanding reality, or maybe they are just actually a propaganda team based in Russia. So I won't bother explaining it, as there is no point in wasting my time typing a load of stuff that the Putin apologists are just going to ignore or twist.
Also, yes my description of what Russia is doing to Ukraine is basically the same as what the USA and the UK have done in a bunch of middle eastern countries, and what the English did in Ireland a couple of hundred years ago, and what Japan did to Korea at the start of the 20th Century, and what Alexander the great did to India in the 7th Century, and what a hundred other invaders have done to a hundred other populations throughout history. It was wrong then, it is wrong now.
Putin is the oppressor, blaming the oppressed because "they made me kill them, I only did it to protect them"."You have no idea what you are talking about. You are completely ignorant of the situation in Ukraine, the entire purpose of your thread is to spread your personal Russiaphobia and act as an apologist for neo nazi factions and the imperialism and corruption of the United States. You should be ashamed of yourself. Your only excuse is your genuine ignorance. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
" Also, yes my description of what Russia is doing to Ukraine is basically the same as what the USA and the UK have done in a bunch of middle eastern countries, and what the English did in Ireland a couple of hundred years ago, and what Japan did to Korea at the start of the 20th Century, and what Alexander the great did to India in the 7th Century, and what a hundred other invaders have done to a hundred other populations throughout history. It was wrong then, it is wrong now. Putin is the oppressor, blaming the oppressed because "they made me kill them, I only did it to protect them". Yes. It's definitely sins many countries have committed and need to atone for. After we stop it happening right now. Whether the Russians do it or anyone else, including ourselves." Russia hasn't committed any war crimes. None. Russia is a highly professional, well trained army, they see the majority of ukranians as fellow brothers, they share the same language and culture. The Russian operation is not an imperialist war of agression as the British or Americans have done nor is it a war of conquest, it is a defensive action brought on by necessity to safeguard the people of the Donbass and to put a stop to nato expansion. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"It's an interesting discussion with no easy answers - freedom of expression versus certainty in institutions and upholding the fabric of society on which we all rely. I suspect things will get worse before they get better, to be honest, and I'm sure Putin is delighted. On the contrary Putin is extremely saddened by the reckless behaviour of the west, nato aggression and the general stupidity of the EU who are some of the most corrupt, entitled and out of touch politicians in the world. This is why they are being voted out by an electorate which is fed up of their mishandling of the situation and general corruption. Russia and Europe was in a toxic relationship. Europe has completely betrayed Russia and now Russia will dump Europe and look elsewhere, India, the global south, China, Africa Iran etc . This will mean that Europe will FOREVER pay higher energy prices and will face severe economic hardship from now on. Its not going to get any better for Europe. If anything its going to get worse. There is no coming back, Russia has walked away from the toxicity of Europe for good. Russia should indeed look towards China, that way at least you will see the knife coming rather than getting it in the back. Russia could and should prosper as an ally of the West but instead Putin has chosen a self destructive path that threatens us all. " What you fail to understand is that Europe needs russia, whereas Russia does not need Europe. As your energy prices go up and up and the cost of living crisis increases the penny will drop.... By then there will possibly be blackouts and energy rationing and you will be foraging in the woods for firewood. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
