FabSwingers.com > Forums > Virus > Vaccine side effects mostly "nocebo'
Vaccine side effects mostly "nocebo'
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By *ilthyNights OP Couple
over a year ago
East / North, Cork |
A fascinating study has shown that most of the negative vaccine side effects were actually not caused by the vaccine. Those who were given a saline injection had most of the same side effects. Its called the "nocebo' effect as is like a negative placebo.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *hyeyesMan
over a year ago
meath |
The big pharma company has to release it's scientific data/studies on the jabs by 1st March 2022 .
It's the same data they wanted to surpress for 75 years ...
Ur gonna find out shortly what uve been jabbed with ...
Incase ur wondering why the scamdemic has been abruptly ended ... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"A fascinating study has shown that most of the negative vaccine side effects were actually not caused by the vaccine. Those who were given a saline injection had most of the same side effects. Its called the "nocebo' effect as is like a negative placebo.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests"
I'll message my mum and let her know that she's not really in pain and she's imagining things. Thanks!  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *azirlMan
over a year ago
Marbella |
"A fascinating study has shown that most of the negative vaccine side effects were actually not caused by the vaccine. Those who were given a saline injection had most of the same side effects. Its called the "nocebo' effect as is like a negative placebo.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests"
They also ignored any of the serious side effects, which is ridiculous and just comes across as we didn’t want to have to put out that data that might make people more resistant to getting more boosters etc. Even in some of the things they mentioned the vaccine group reported it way more than the placebo group, if it was mostly just noceblo effect you’d expect the numbers to be roughly the same. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oo32Man
over a year ago
tipperary |
"The big pharma company has to release it's scientific data/studies on the jabs by 1st March 2022 .
It's the same data they wanted to surpress for 75 years ...
Ur gonna find out shortly what uve been jabbed with ...
Incase ur wondering why the scamdemic has been abruptly ended ..."
Pfizer has said data won't be available till 2025...
Moderna has said October 2022
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ilthyNights OP Couple
over a year ago
East / North, Cork |
A placebo/nocebo isn't anyone imagining anything. It's a real physiological effect that happens. It can cause real pain, redness, swelling. The human body is amazing. Control groups can suffer real wide effects from sugarpills and saline. The body makes it real. Its not imagination. It's a measurable effect. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asual777Man
over a year ago
i travel all over |
Tbh the anti vaccine campaign has been so all encompassing that there is a significant narrative out there that they’re harmful .
Yes they cause side effects but a pandemic appears to have ended in under 2 years . Truly wonderful creations.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Waiting for the tens of millions to die from the vaccinations... like we have heard from the university of Facebook haha "
They've already died! You just have to stop being a Baa Baa and check the "real" sources  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Yeah I'll tell my mother the heart attack and pace maker is all in her head as well as all the athletes who dropped dead And the literal tens of thousands of people who are dead, had heart attacks/strokes, blood clots and hemorrhages etc  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
10'000s of people die every year from all those things. You'd have to have actual data showing these were all extra to the norm
Not that some people won't have a severe reaction but the numbers are relatively low compared to those messed up from covid
I keep seeing the footballer example being used to say these players are collapsing from the jab when we know (taking the Prem League) as an example, that at least 33% if not more haven't been vaxed and can infer that this could be the case in loads of leagues.. so how can we say these cases aren't from covid side effects rather than the jab or they could as easily be a statistical anomaly as footballers have been dropping dead for years
This is the problem with this narrative warfare bullshit. People aren't interesting in knowing the truth they just want to latch on to whatever narrative reaffirms they preferred narrative bias |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
And so much of the anti-vax narrative comes from far right Christian whack jobs in the US. (Most people don't realise this) These cunts would denounce everyone on this site for being on this site. Never mind they're some of the most depraved and creepy motherfuckers going that spout liberty bla bla bla when they'd have us in a backward Christian hellhole if they ever got their way |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ilthyNights OP Couple
over a year ago
East / North, Cork |
I'd rather keep this thread away from the general pro/anti vax stuff that we've done over and over.... this nocebo thing was my intended topic. Two thirds of vaccine side effects are also seen in people who got jabs with literally no vaccine at all!!! Its incredible. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"A placebo/nocebo isn't anyone imagining anything. It's a real physiological effect that happens. It can cause real pain, redness, swelling. The human body is amazing. Control groups can suffer real wide effects from sugarpills and saline. The body makes it real. Its not imagination. It's a measurable effect. "
totally agree n yes the human body is amazing
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"A fascinating study has shown that most of the negative vaccine side effects were actually not caused by the vaccine. Those who were given a saline injection had most of the same side effects. Its called the "nocebo' effect as is like a negative placebo.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-
covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests"
The actual Study says this "Most of the common side effects that people experience after a COVID-19 vaccination can be blamed on the ‘nocebo’ effect" Most of the common effect e.g. I have a sore arm, i have swelling etc.. So once again MSM using a play of words to confuse and exaggerate safety.
Here's the link to the article on Nature.com - https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00146-y
Also for the critical thinkers, they mention the test group - what is that number and how did they track those with the placebo? BS as usual for the indoctrinated to justify themselves. Really people should do some research, or at least learn how to research. Ask these questions! where is the long-term data, why would the injection manufacturers want not to release their safety data for 75 years. I could give you 000's of questions but even a start at those should allow some critical thought. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ilthyNights OP Couple
over a year ago
East / North, Cork |
"A fascinating study has shown that most of the negative vaccine side effects were actually not caused by the vaccine. Those who were given a saline injection had most of the same side effects. Its called the "nocebo' effect as is like a negative placebo.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-
covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests
The actual Study says this "Most of the common side effects that people experience after a COVID-19 vaccination can be blamed on the ‘nocebo’ effect" Most of the common effect e.g. I have a sore arm, i have swelling etc.. So once again MSM using a play of words to confuse and exaggerate safety.
Here's the link to the article on Nature.com - https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00146-y
Also for the critical thinkers, they mention the test group - what is that number and how did they track those with the placebo? BS as usual for the indoctrinated to justify themselves. Really people should do some research, or at least learn how to research. Ask these questions! where is the long-term data, why would the injection manufacturers want not to release their safety data for 75 years. I could give you 000's of questions but even a start at those should allow some critical thought. "
In these trials they track the control group the same as they track the actual vaccine group. They do "double blind" testing. That means that neither those who are performing the trial, nor those who are getting injected are aware which group they/anyone is in. That removes the bias.
I find it quite ironic that you don't know this when you state in your post that "people should do some research, or at least learn how to research".
This trial concentrated on the most common side effects because those are the side effects that effect most people. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The big pharma company has to release it's scientific data/studies on the jabs by 1st March 2022 .
It's the same data they wanted to surpress for 75 years ...
Ur gonna find out shortly what uve been jabbed with ...
Incase ur wondering why the scamdemic has been abruptly ended ..."
Tell that to all the families that lost loved ones you arrogant bollox |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"A fascinating study has shown that most of the negative vaccine side effects were actually not caused by the vaccine. Those who were given a saline injection had most of the same side effects. Its called the "nocebo' effect as is like a negative placebo.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-
covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests
The actual Study says this "Most of the common side effects that people experience after a COVID-19 vaccination can be blamed on the ‘nocebo’ effect" Most of the common effect e.g. I have a sore arm, i have swelling etc.. So once again MSM using a play of words to confuse and exaggerate safety.
Here's the link to the article on Nature.com - https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00146-y
Also for the critical thinkers, they mention the test group - what is that number and how did they track those with the placebo? BS as usual for the indoctrinated to justify themselves. Really people should do some research, or at least learn how to research. Ask these questions! where is the long-term data, why would the injection manufacturers want not to release their safety data for 75 years. I could give you 000's of questions but even a start at those should allow some critical thought.
In these trials they track the control group the same as they track the actual vaccine group. They do "double blind" testing. That means that neither those who are performing the trial, nor those who are getting injected are aware which group they/anyone is in. That removes the bias.
I find it quite ironic that you don't know this when you state in your post that "people should do some research, or at least learn how to research".
This trial concentrated on the most common side effects because those are the side effects that effect most people."
Here is the Study referenced:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2788172?resultClick=3
"The common side effects". (what are the common side effects) - so what about the not so common more serious ones.
"In each trial, those in the placebo arm were given injections of inactive salt solution instead of vaccine. The study did not look at severe, rare side-effects such as blood clots or heart inflammation."
You didn't read my reply carefully, you just re-iterated a valid question.
Here is the Conclusions and Relevance from this article:
"In this systematic review and meta-analysis, significantly more AEs were reported in vaccine groups compared with placebo groups, but the rates of reported AEs in the placebo arms were still substantial. Public vaccination programs should consider these high rates of AEs in placebo arms".
Significantly more Adverse effects were reported in the vaccine groups. Would you agree that the guardian heading is a little misleading?
Back to my valid questions -- where is the long-term data, why not wish to release the Vaccine data for 75 years?
 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ilthyNights OP Couple
over a year ago
East / North, Cork |
I think the crux of it is that a very serious reaction like a heart problem or a clotting issue is unlikely to be created by the nocebo effect.... but that the very common (and not too serious) side effects are very likely from getting a nocebo.
The study that you are quoting from says "the ratio between placebo and vaccine arms showed that nocebo responses accounted for 76.0% of systemic AEs after the first COVID-19 vaccine dose and for 51.8% after the second dose"
I think this is where the guardian are taking their headline from. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ilthyNights OP Couple
over a year ago
East / North, Cork |
With regards the release of the vaccine date... it was the FDA not the pharma companies who were asked to release the data under the freedom of information act.
The reasoning they gave for that slow response was..
"The FDA didn’t dispute it had an obligation to make the information public but argued that its short-staffed FOIA office only had the bandwidth to review and release 500 pages a month.
While Pittman recognized “the ‘unduly burdensome’ challenges that this FOIA request may present to the FDA,” in his four-page order"
https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/paramount-importance-judge-orders-fda-hasten-release-pfizer-vaccine-docs-2022-01-07/ |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I think the crux of it is that a very serious reaction like a heart problem or a clotting issue is unlikely to be created by the nocebo effect.... but that the very common (and not too serious) side effects are very likely from getting a nocebo.
The study that you are quoting from says "the ratio between placebo and vaccine arms showed that nocebo responses accounted for 76.0% of systemic AEs after the first COVID-19 vaccine dose and for 51.8% after the second dose"
I think this is where the guardian are taking their headline from. "
I'm quoting from the Study you mentioned where The Guardian got their Headline - It's misleading and the data was taken from Online research "In an online cohort study including 19?586 adults who received a COVID-19 vaccination" Just to keep this all in perspective they ran this analysis 7 days after dosage, yet we are told we are not vaccinated for weeks ?
Here is a nice study from the same site the Guardian got their story, https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2787361?resultClick=3 "Analysis of COVID-19 Vaccine Type and Adverse Effects Following Vaccination" Science is great really, data science is a magic too in the wrong/right hands.
It's a cherry-picking exercise. Back to my simple questions - 1. Long-term data 2. Why seek to conceal data for 75 years.
The headline is misleading - the study conclusions state that the significant majority of AE's are from the Jab. It's all there in English.
In short, this vaccine, (it should not be called a vaccine, as it offers very little immunity if any after a very short period of time) has the most side effects and deaths of all other vaccinations combined since 1950. The headline is misleading and by anyone's standards the Jabs are not safe. Lets answer the questions that we could gain insight ! Funny they can't be answered isnt it.
Your Guardian post is misleading, and with some simple point-outs, the Jabs are not safe based on previous vaccinations or how we used to measure safety.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ilthyNights OP Couple
over a year ago
East / North, Cork |
Well Duh. The Gaurdian don't perform medical research so they have taken data from a study in a medical journal.
No vaccines are 100% safe. The idea is that they save a lot more lives than they take.
This thread was about the nocebo effect and the significant and very real (but fairly minor) adverse side effects that were brought on by it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
It's hard to be wrong and I'm not trying to poke holes or be argumentative, the article is misleading. It gives the conclusion which I've already posted which states the significant majority of common AR's are in the jabbed.
It's OK I've made it easier to understand the truth, MSM do this often, and it's not right, and I can see how someone would be fooled into believing the headlines.
I've also highlighted how misleading MSM is and how quickly people will jump on the bandwagon.
Truth is - significantly more AE's in the vaccinated & from the additional study and many more peer reviewed studies - this vaccine has had the most deaths and adverse effects than all vaccines combined in over 70 years. It's not the placebo effect either. Let's have that sink in!
Stop trying to justify the unjustifiable.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ilthyNights OP Couple
over a year ago
East / North, Cork |
I'm really not sure you're understanding the point of this thread.. which is that a very significant number of vaccinated people experienced the nocebo effect and experienced real symptoms that were brought on by the expectation of them.
I'll agree that the headline presents the most extreme data interpretation. Surprise surprise. But the article itself states...
"When the researchers looked at side-effects after the second jab, they found the rate of headaches or other systemic symptoms was nearly twice as high in the vaccine group compared with the placebo group, at 61% and 32% respectively. The difference was even greater for local ailments, reaching 73% among those who had the vaccine and 12% in the placebo group.
Overall, the researchers calculate that about two-thirds of common side-effects reported in Covid vaccine trials are driven by the nocebo effect, in particular headaches and fatigue, which many Covid vaccine leaflets list as the most common adverse reactions after a shot"
..so it does acknowledge that there were a lot of minor some effects in the vaccine group.
It's that final extrapolation that leads to the headline, that you seem to be fixated on.
Also... any response on my FDA data explanation ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ilthyNights OP Couple
over a year ago
East / North, Cork |
The part you are struggling to understand is better explained in this article...
https://www.sciencealert.com/nearly-two-thirds-of-adverse-covid-19-vaccine-reactions-might-be-due-to-the-nocebo-effect
"According to the team's analysis, comparing ratios between the two groups, the nocebo effect accounted for up to 76 percent of systemic adverse events and 24 percent of local adverse events after the first vaccine dose"
..that comparing ratios between the 2 groups bit.
In that study in total 76 percent of systemic adverse events were caused by the nocebo effect. Amazing! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"With regards the release of the vaccine date... it was the FDA not the pharma companies who were asked to release the data under the freedom of information act.
The reasoning they gave for that slow response was..
"The FDA didn’t dispute it had an obligation to make the information public but argued that its short-staffed FOIA office only had the bandwidth to review and release 500 pages a month.
While Pittman recognized “the ‘unduly burdensome’ challenges that this FOIA request may present to the FDA,” in his four-page order"
https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/paramount-importance-judge-orders-fda-hasten-release-pfizer-vaccine-docs-2022-01-07/"
That's Laughable, but another day's argument, think about this ! they already have the data the cumbersome part is compiling it - for a vaccine that's under emergency authorization. If you didn't laugh at the excuses you'd cry. Funny a judge managed to see through the BS. Like any normal person  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ilthyNights OP Couple
over a year ago
East / North, Cork |
Well no they didnt see it was BS. They acknowledged the large burden of copying 500,000 documents, but ordered them to do it because it was in the public interest.
Also doesn't the fact that this was the FDA and not the pharma company hiding make your point bullshit? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Well no they didnt see it was BS. They acknowledged the large burden of copying 500,000 documents, but ordered them to do it because it was in the public interest.
Also doesn't the fact that this was the FDA and not the pharma company hiding make your point bullshit?"
Ah Stop, they looked for 75 years. Again here you are not thinking that this is BS, everyone will be dead in 75 years that had anything to do with this. they can roll out a world wide jab in a year, but can't give you access to the data for 75 years. Stop yourself, if you don't think this is BS just like the Judge did then I don't know what to say to you. Your point is moot if you're after transparency.
Finally here is the conclusion again from the report you so wonderfully wont accept the findings from "Conclusions and Relevance In this systematic review and meta-analysis, significantly more AEs were reported in vaccine groups compared with placebo groups, but the rates of reported AEs in the placebo arms were still substantial. Public vaccination programs should consider these high rates of AEs in placebo arms."
I suggest you call the researchers and tell them you disagree with their conclusions, and that the misleading headline from the Guardian is what you want to believe desperately. Is the conclusions in the paper or not ? if it is, stop arguing because you are wrong, and nothing you say can possibly make you right! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ilthyNights OP Couple
over a year ago
East / North, Cork |
Oh do tell me what part the FDA play in your conspiracy.
In reality the FDA required access to the data from Pfizer in order to make a decision to allow the vaccine or not. The freedom of information request was to make public all 500,000 odd pages of the date that the FDA were given by Pfizer. It was far more than the team in the FOI office were used to handing and so they capped it at 500 pages per month. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ilthyNights OP Couple
over a year ago
East / North, Cork |
"Well no they didnt see it was BS. They acknowledged the large burden of copying 500,000 documents, but ordered them to do it because it was in the public interest.
Also doesn't the fact that this was the FDA and not the pharma company hiding make your point bullshit?
Ah Stop, they looked for 75 years. Again here you are not thinking that this is BS, everyone will be dead in 75 years that had anything to do with this. they can roll out a world wide jab in a year, but can't give you access to the data for 75 years. Stop yourself, if you don't think this is BS just like the Judge did then I don't know what to say to you. Your point is moot if you're after transparency.
Finally here is the conclusion again from the report you so wonderfully wont accept the findings from "Conclusions and Relevance In this systematic review and meta-analysis, significantly more AEs were reported in vaccine groups compared with placebo groups, but the rates of reported AEs in the placebo arms were still substantial. Public vaccination programs should consider these high rates of AEs in placebo arms."
I suggest you call the researchers and tell them you disagree with their conclusions, and that the misleading headline from the Guardian is what you want to believe desperately. Is the conclusions in the paper or not ? if it is, stop arguing because you are wrong, and nothing you say can possibly make you right! "
Ive already quoted the section from that same study that the guardian and others used to generate their headlines. I'm not gonna do it again. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Oh do tell me what part the FDA play in your conspiracy.
In reality the FDA required access to the data from Pfizer in order to make a decision to allow the vaccine or not. The freedom of information request was to make public all 500,000 odd pages of the date that the FDA were given by Pfizer. It was far more than the team in the FOI office were used to handing and so they capped it at 500 pages per month. "
I was waiting for the conspiracy bit to be rolled out, It's as simple as this, you posted an article that was misleading so you could virtue signal. You were wrong, you're off on another track now. So please stop yourself, you are coming across as unintelligent you cannot accept that the conclusions of the paper disagreed with what you assumed the misleading headline meant.
Finally, "and I mean finally because you are going to try head down the road of conspiracist for clearly pointing out your error, and you don't have the ability it seems to argue without trying to demean, which is sad". if you have to take a court case because of excessive workload as you put it then no normal person who works with data could accept this, because it is BS. I'm telling you as an expert on data, compiling 500,000 pages of data is nothing, the hardest part of this exercise if you have nothing to hide would be manually scanning something into an OCR application. (Nothing is manual anymore either) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *azirlMan
over a year ago
Marbella |
"The part you are struggling to understand is better explained in this article...
https://www.sciencealert.com/nearly-two-thirds-of-adverse-covid-19-vaccine-reactions-might-be-due-to-the-nocebo-effect
"According to the team's analysis, comparing ratios between the two groups, the nocebo effect accounted for up to 76 percent of systemic adverse events and 24 percent of local adverse events after the first vaccine dose"
..that comparing ratios between the 2 groups bit.
In that study in total 76 percent of systemic adverse events were caused by the nocebo effect. Amazing!"
For local adverse effects you still have to consider they got a needle stuck in their arm so even though they might not have had the vaccine their arm might still be a little sore. It doesn’t exactly go into detail on the levels of pain etc and the difference between the two groups when it comes to things like that but it’s pretty clear the vaccine group reported it way more.
Yes the noceblo effect is interesting on its own but I think most can agree that it’s being used in a misleading way here.
Also when talking about Pfizer, the CEO himself has also said they cut the placebo group short because it wasn’t ethical to not give them the vaccine but that kinda cuts the purpose of seeing the difference in how things play out when compared to each other. It wasn’t even that long into the trial when they done that so the placebo group was practically pointless.
It’s also dodgy how these companies get to decide what information they present regarding trials etc it’s not exactly as transparent as people like to believe. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *azirlMan
over a year ago
Marbella |
"And so much of the anti-vax narrative comes from far right Christian whack jobs in the US. (Most people don't realise this) These cunts would denounce everyone on this site for being on this site. Never mind they're some of the most depraved and creepy motherfuckers going that spout liberty bla bla bla when they'd have us in a backward Christian hellhole if they ever got their way"
Is there any data to actually back this up or is it just your opinion?
Maybe I follow completely different stories and have a wide range of people I know because from what I see there’s a hell of a lot of people that are anti-covid vaccines that are the furthest thing from far right you’d imagine but then again if you’re honest you’d probably admit for years it is left leaning people were anti-vax in general. You can’t just start blaming right wing Christians for this. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ilthyNights OP Couple
over a year ago
East / North, Cork |
"And so much of the anti-vax narrative comes from far right Christian whack jobs in the US. (Most people don't realise this) These cunts would denounce everyone on this site for being on this site. Never mind they're some of the most depraved and creepy motherfuckers going that spout liberty bla bla bla when they'd have us in a backward Christian hellhole if they ever got their way
Is there any data to actually back this up or is it just your opinion?
Maybe I follow completely different stories and have a wide range of people I know because from what I see there’s a hell of a lot of people that are anti-covid vaccines that are the furthest thing from far right you’d imagine but then again if you’re honest you’d probably admit for years it is left leaning people were anti-vax in general. You can’t just start blaming right wing Christians for this. "
There are definitely idiots on both sides of the political divide who are antivax |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ilthyNights OP Couple
over a year ago
East / North, Cork |
"The part you are struggling to understand is better explained in this article...
https://www.sciencealert.com/nearly-two-thirds-of-adverse-covid-19-vaccine-reactions-might-be-due-to-the-nocebo-effect
"According to the team's analysis, comparing ratios between the two groups, the nocebo effect accounted for up to 76 percent of systemic adverse events and 24 percent of local adverse events after the first vaccine dose"
..that comparing ratios between the 2 groups bit.
In that study in total 76 percent of systemic adverse events were caused by the nocebo effect. Amazing!
For local adverse effects you still have to consider they got a needle stuck in their arm so even though they might not have had the vaccine their arm might still be a little sore. It doesn’t exactly go into detail on the levels of pain etc and the difference between the two groups when it comes to things like that but it’s pretty clear the vaccine group reported it way more.
Yes the noceblo effect is interesting on its own but I think most can agree that it’s being used in a misleading way here.
Also when talking about Pfizer, the CEO himself has also said they cut the placebo group short because it wasn’t ethical to not give them the vaccine but that kinda cuts the purpose of seeing the difference in how things play out when compared to each other. It wasn’t even that long into the trial when they done that so the placebo group was practically pointless.
It’s also dodgy how these companies get to decide what information they present regarding trials etc it’s not exactly as transparent as people like to believe. "
Private companies are allowed to keep any and all data from trials that the paid for to themselves... until they want to prove safety, and at that point they have to provide evidence to the regulator. In this case it was the regulator (FDA) who responded saying it would release the data slowly and not the pharma company.
Have you got a link about Pfizer stopping the placebo group trial early... I can't find anything about that? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ilthyNights OP Couple
over a year ago
East / North, Cork |
I found it sorry.
https://www.statnews.com/2021/01/01/pfizer-and-biontech-speed-up-timeline-for-offering-covid-19-to-placebo-volunteers/
"Pfizer set out a plan in which volunteers who wanted the vaccine could receive it when they would be eligible to receive the vaccine in their local area. Health care personnel or residents in long-term care facilities, who were already eligible to be vaccinated, would get the vaccine immediately"
It seems many of the volunteers who were in the placebo group were medical workers who were lobbying to be allowed to be vaccinated. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *azirlMan
over a year ago
Marbella |
"I found it sorry.
https://www.statnews.com/2021/01/01/pfizer-and-biontech-speed-up-timeline-for-offering-covid-19-to-placebo-volunteers/
"Pfizer set out a plan in which volunteers who wanted the vaccine could receive it when they would be eligible to receive the vaccine in their local area. Health care personnel or residents in long-term care facilities, who were already eligible to be vaccinated, would get the vaccine immediately"
It seems many of the volunteers who were in the placebo group were medical workers who were lobbying to be allowed to be vaccinated. "
Yes most of the volunteers were people that wanted to try the vaccine it doesn’t change the fact that they pretty much got rid of the placebo group without actually getting any long term data to compare against each other.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *azirlMan
over a year ago
Marbella |
"The part you are struggling to understand is better explained in this article...
https://www.sciencealert.com/nearly-two-thirds-of-adverse-covid-19-vaccine-reactions-might-be-due-to-the-nocebo-effect
"According to the team's analysis, comparing ratios between the two groups, the nocebo effect accounted for up to 76 percent of systemic adverse events and 24 percent of local adverse events after the first vaccine dose"
..that comparing ratios between the 2 groups bit.
In that study in total 76 percent of systemic adverse events were caused by the nocebo effect. Amazing!
For local adverse effects you still have to consider they got a needle stuck in their arm so even though they might not have had the vaccine their arm might still be a little sore. It doesn’t exactly go into detail on the levels of pain etc and the difference between the two groups when it comes to things like that but it’s pretty clear the vaccine group reported it way more.
Yes the noceblo effect is interesting on its own but I think most can agree that it’s being used in a misleading way here.
Also when talking about Pfizer, the CEO himself has also said they cut the placebo group short because it wasn’t ethical to not give them the vaccine but that kinda cuts the purpose of seeing the difference in how things play out when compared to each other. It wasn’t even that long into the trial when they done that so the placebo group was practically pointless.
It’s also dodgy how these companies get to decide what information they present regarding trials etc it’s not exactly as transparent as people like to believe.
Private companies are allowed to keep any and all data from trials that the paid for to themselves... until they want to prove safety, and at that point they have to provide evidence to the regulator. In this case it was the regulator (FDA) who responded saying it would release the data slowly and not the pharma company.
Have you got a link about Pfizer stopping the placebo group trial early... I can't find anything about that? "
Can you not admit it’s dodgy that they get to choose the evidence that shows safety but they don’t have to show all the data? They can cherry pick what they want to show and what they hide.
Lets not pretend these companies haven’t made billions with drugs they knew were harmful but they made a calculation that even with a fine its still going to be profitable.
Scientists have created many things that have improved our standard of life and health etc but the industry has also wilfully done extreme damage to people’s health on multiple levels. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ilthyNights OP Couple
over a year ago
East / North, Cork |
Do you not understand that they couldn't keep tens of thousands of people unvaccinated during a pandemic in order to give us more data? These peoole wanted the vaccine.
Pharmaceuticals are private businesses that exist to make a profit for shareholders. That is why they exist. That's capitalism. Of they didn't make a profit then they would slip away away someone else would take their place who did. That's the free market. Unless you want drug development to be funded by government through taxation then that's the model we have to work with.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *azirlMan
over a year ago
Marbella |
"That's true, but that decision was for ethical reasons... not to hide vaccine data. Keeping the group unvaccinated would have had a human cost."
You don’t know that for sure and that’s kinda the point of having groups to compare against.
It’s not like the vaccinated group weren’t spreading covid and potentially killing people while they thought they were immune to it all. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *azirlMan
over a year ago
Marbella |
"Do you not understand that they couldn't keep tens of thousands of people unvaccinated during a pandemic in order to give us more data? These peoole wanted the vaccine.
Pharmaceuticals are private businesses that exist to make a profit for shareholders. That is why they exist. That's capitalism. Of they didn't make a profit then they would slip away away someone else would take their place who did. That's the free market. Unless you want drug development to be funded by government through taxation then that's the model we have to work with.
"
They signed up for a trial, yes they might have wanted it but they give up knowing if they have it or not by getting involved in the trial. They wilfully signed up to be a Guiana pig so yes we should get to see how it plays out.
I’m perfectly fine with them making a profit, what I’m not fine with is them being allowed to choose what data they give to regulators(if you can even call them that) and what they get to withhold.
Capitalism will allow the good companies to thrive but the dodgy ones should be out of business already with what they’ve done, instead they just pay a little fine and go on to do it again. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ilthyNights OP Couple
over a year ago
East / North, Cork |
"Do you not understand that they couldn't keep tens of thousands of people unvaccinated during a pandemic in order to give us more data? These peoole wanted the vaccine.
Pharmaceuticals are private businesses that exist to make a profit for shareholders. That is why they exist. That's capitalism. Of they didn't make a profit then they would slip away away someone else would take their place who did. That's the free market. Unless you want drug development to be funded by government through taxation then that's the model we have to work with.
They signed up for a trial, yes they might have wanted it but they give up knowing if they have it or not by getting involved in the trial. They wilfully signed up to be a Guiana pig so yes we should get to see how it plays out.
I’m perfectly fine with them making a profit, what I’m not fine with is them being allowed to choose what data they give to regulators(if you can even call them that) and what they get to withhold.
Capitalism will allow the good companies to thrive but the dodgy ones should be out of business already with what they’ve done, instead they just pay a little fine and go on to do it again. "
They didn't withhold data from the FDA. The FDA have all the data. It was the FDA who were pressured to release the data not Pfizer. I've pointed that out several times already in this thread did you not read it?
I suggest you also go and read the reuters article I linked earlier which explains in some depth about the reasons Pfizer agreed to the placebo group members demands to choose to be vaccinated if they wanted. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *azirlMan
over a year ago
Marbella |
"Do you not understand that they couldn't keep tens of thousands of people unvaccinated during a pandemic in order to give us more data? These peoole wanted the vaccine.
Pharmaceuticals are private businesses that exist to make a profit for shareholders. That is why they exist. That's capitalism. Of they didn't make a profit then they would slip away away someone else would take their place who did. That's the free market. Unless you want drug development to be funded by government through taxation then that's the model we have to work with.
They signed up for a trial, yes they might have wanted it but they give up knowing if they have it or not by getting involved in the trial. They wilfully signed up to be a Guiana pig so yes we should get to see how it plays out.
I’m perfectly fine with them making a profit, what I’m not fine with is them being allowed to choose what data they give to regulators(if you can even call them that) and what they get to withhold.
Capitalism will allow the good companies to thrive but the dodgy ones should be out of business already with what they’ve done, instead they just pay a little fine and go on to do it again.
They didn't withhold data from the FDA. The FDA have all the data. It was the FDA who were pressured to release the data not Pfizer. I've pointed that out several times already in this thread did you not read it?
I suggest you also go and read the reuters article I linked earlier which explains in some depth about the reasons Pfizer agreed to the placebo group members demands to choose to be vaccinated if they wanted."
I’ve listened to the CEO talk about it, you didn’t even know they cut the placebo group short until I mentioned it so please don’t act like you knew what happened and I’m the misinformed one.
I’m not talking about the FDA being pressured to release the data, I’ve pointed out how drug companies can show the data the proves safety but that doesn’t mean giving all the data. You pretty much said that yourself, when you said they can keep everything private but when they want to sell the drug they have to show proof that it’s “safe”. That doesn’t mean they have to give all the data. It also means when they see bad side effects they can just stop looking at that area, which they do all the time because there’s no real consequences.
It’s a complete joke of a system. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Can I just say that the FDA is one of the worst run organisations in the world. It's so badly run and corrupt that sections of the US government want it abolished. So I wouldn't take anything they say ( good or bad ) to be reliable. There is a reason that the European medicines agency didn't use any FDA evidence in approving the covid vaccine |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Can I just say that the FDA is one of the worst run organisations in the world. It's so badly run and corrupt that sections of the US government want it abolished. So I wouldn't take anything they say ( good or bad ) to be reliable. There is a reason that the European medicines agency didn't use any FDA evidence in approving the covid vaccine "
Probably a bit of an exaggeration there, come on. In fairness to the FDA they red-flagged thalidomide and refused to grant a licence for it, while in Europe... Well we all know what happened there.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *azirlMan
over a year ago
Marbella |
"That's not how it works at all. If they held back trial data from the FDA then the FDA wouldn't give them a license."
How would the FDA not give them a licence without all the data. Sure they wanted 50 + years to go through the data but it’s already approved by them. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ilthyNights OP Couple
over a year ago
East / North, Cork |
"That's not how it works at all. If they held back trial data from the FDA then the FDA wouldn't give them a license.
How would the FDA not give them a licence without all the data. Sure they wanted 50 + years to go through the data but it’s already approved by them. "
Their job is to make sure medicines are safe. They look at the evidence. Trial data is an important part of that. Without the trial data they wouldn't license it.
They didn't want 50+ years to go through the data. They analysed the data before they licenced the vaccine. The long period was the time to release to the FOI request after it was already licensed. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'd rather keep this thread away from the general pro/anti vax stuff that we've done over and over.... this nocebo thing was my intended topic. Two thirds of vaccine side effects are also seen in people who got jabs with literally no vaccine at all!!! Its incredible."
Starting a thread on vaccines was always really going to get into the pro/anti vaccines tho |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ilthyNights OP Couple
over a year ago
East / North, Cork |
"I'd rather keep this thread away from the general pro/anti vax stuff that we've done over and over.... this nocebo thing was my intended topic. Two thirds of vaccine side effects are also seen in people who got jabs with literally no vaccine at all!!! Its incredible.
Starting a thread on vaccines was always really going to get into the pro/anti vaccines tho"
Yeah was a bit nieve there alright |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *hyeyesMan
over a year ago
meath |
"That's not how it works at all. If they held back trial data from the FDA then the FDA wouldn't give them a license.
How would the FDA not give them a licence without all the data. Sure they wanted 50 + years to go through the data but it’s already approved by them. "
It never got liecened ...
It's being used under Emergency Use Authorization
And it only achieved that because there no alternative treatments... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"And so much of the anti-vax narrative comes from far right Christian whack jobs in the US. (Most people don't realise this) These cunts would denounce everyone on this site for being on this site. Never mind they're some of the most depraved and creepy motherfuckers going that spout liberty bla bla bla when they'd have us in a backward Christian hellhole if they ever got their way"
This is so true, that and the arseholes looking to make a quick buck from selling their own "miracle cures" to the vulnerable and gullible of the world even when science has debunked everything they have said |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Hmm so the crippling stomach pain, chest pain, stabbing head pain, jaw pain that I've been suffering with since my vaccination isn't real?
That's a relief "
Oh it’s real just the statistics suggest it’s probably nowt to do with the jab |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I really don't think that it was a placebo or a nacebo effect that caused me to spend 17 days vomiting my guts up from having the second jab. 
It started within two hours of the injection. Funny enough I am not having a booster.
I would take these articles with a pinch of salt, squeeze of lemon and a large shot of tequila.
R |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Yeah I'll tell my mother the heart attack and pace maker is all in her head as well as all the athletes who dropped dead And the literal tens of thousands of people who are dead, had heart attacks/strokes, blood clots and hemorrhages etc "
But not from covid then? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Hmm so the crippling stomach pain, chest pain, stabbing head pain, jaw pain that I've been suffering with since my vaccination isn't real?
That's a relief
Oh it’s real just the statistics suggest it’s probably nowt to do with the jab "
That's weird as I was perfectly fine before. Started getting mild stomach issues after the first which never went away. Around 10 days after the second jab was when all my problems started. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"A placebo/nocebo isn't anyone imagining anything. It's a real physiological effect that happens. It can cause real pain, redness, swelling. The human body is amazing. Control groups can suffer real wide effects from sugarpills and saline. The body makes it real. Its not imagination. It's a measurable effect. "
Well said. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The big pharma company has to release it's scientific data/studies on the jabs by 1st March 2022 .
It's the same data they wanted to surpress for 75 years ...
Ur gonna find out shortly what uve been jabbed with ...
Incase ur wondering why the scamdemic has been abruptly ended ..."
Covid killed my the ex who was the mother of my kids and hospitalised me so it no scamdemic at all. Some people need to stop reading the conspiracy theory stories and wake up. I am triple jabbed and will have the vaccine as often as needed. When you have lost someone close and could have died yourself you know it’s real |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *hoirCouple
over a year ago
Clacton/Bury St. Edmunds |
"A fascinating study has shown that most of the negative vaccine side effects were actually not caused by the vaccine. Those who were given a saline injection had most of the same side effects. Its called the "nocebo' effect as is like a negative placebo.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests"
Misinformation.
The saline injections were part of the small trial control groups and not the main population. That being said, a lot of vaccines aren't to blame for some of the issues but rather poorly administered injections.
C |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"A fascinating study has shown that most of the negative vaccine side effects were actually not caused by the vaccine. Those who were given a saline injection had most of the same side effects. Its called the "nocebo' effect as is like a negative placebo.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests"
What side effect did they suffer. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"A fascinating study has shown that most of the negative vaccine side effects were actually not caused by the vaccine. Those who were given a saline injection had most of the same side effects. Its called the "nocebo' effect as is like a negative placebo.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-
covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests
The actual Study says this "Most of the common side effects that people experience after a COVID-19 vaccination can be blamed on the ‘nocebo’ effect" Most of the common effect e.g. I have a sore arm, i have swelling etc.. So once again MSM using a play of words to confuse and exaggerate safety.
Here's the link to the article on Nature.com - https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00146-y
Also for the critical thinkers, they mention the test group - what is that number and how did they track those with the placebo? BS as usual for the indoctrinated to justify themselves. Really people should do some research, or at least learn how to research. Ask these questions! where is the long-term data, why would the injection manufacturers want not to release their safety data for 75 years. I could give you 000's of questions but even a start at those should allow some critical thought. "
Well said  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The big pharma company has to release it's scientific data/studies on the jabs by 1st March 2022 .
It's the same data they wanted to surpress for 75 years ...
Ur gonna find out shortly what uve been jabbed with ...
Incase ur wondering why the scamdemic has been abruptly ended ...
Covid killed my the ex who was the mother of my kids and hospitalised me so it no scamdemic at all. Some people need to stop reading the conspiracy theory stories and wake up. I am triple jabbed and will have the vaccine as often as needed. When you have lost someone close and could have died yourself you know it’s real"
Sounds like Nocebo effect to me |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The big pharma company has to release it's scientific data/studies on the jabs by 1st March 2022 .
It's the same data they wanted to surpress for 75 years ...
Ur gonna find out shortly what uve been jabbed with ...
Incase ur wondering why the scamdemic has been abruptly ended ...
Covid killed my the ex who was the mother of my kids and hospitalised me so it no scamdemic at all. Some people need to stop reading the conspiracy theory stories and wake up. I am triple jabbed and will have the vaccine as often as needed. When you have lost someone close and could have died yourself you know it’s real
Sounds like Nocebo effect to me"
That really is a somewhat insulting reply to the poster of this comment, dont you think you should show a little respect or compassion? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/vaccines/vaccines-licensed-use-united-states"
Pfizer and Astra Zeneca are emergency use authorised only and cannot be fully approved until 2023 at the earliest due to ongoing clinical trial studies. I posted a link to the cdc and .gov links to the trial end date information previously but was taken down and banned by admin for it.
Google NCT04516746
This will take you to the clinical trial page of AstraZeneca vaccine where clinical trial end date is Valentine's Day 2023, shot to the heart, you give jabs a bad name
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The big pharma company has to release it's scientific data/studies on the jabs by 1st March 2022 .
It's the same data they wanted to surpress for 75 years ...
Ur gonna find out shortly what uve been jabbed with ...
Incase ur wondering why the scamdemic has been abruptly ended ...
Covid killed my the ex who was the mother of my kids and hospitalised me so it no scamdemic at all. Some people need to stop reading the conspiracy theory stories and wake up. I am triple jabbed and will have the vaccine as often as needed. When you have lost someone close and could have died yourself you know it’s real
Sounds like Nocebo effect to me
That really is a somewhat insulting reply to the poster of this comment, dont you think you should show a little respect or compassion? "
Well going by the claims that a nocebo affect exists. All I am stating is, is it not plausible? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/vaccines/vaccines-licensed-use-united-states
Pfizer and Astra Zeneca are emergency use authorised only and cannot be fully approved until 2023 at the earliest due to ongoing clinical trial studies. I posted a link to the cdc and .gov links to the trial end date information previously but was taken down and banned by admin for it.
Google NCT04516746
This will take you to the clinical trial page of AstraZeneca vaccine where clinical trial end date is Valentine's Day 2023, shot to the heart, you give jabs a bad name
"
I mean, how much clearer do you need to be, the title states exactly that the ongoing trial is to study efficacy and safety with an estimated end date of 2023. So unless I'm totally reading it wrong, that suggests to me the jury is still out, yet the wools been pulled over some people's eyes who believe this has been the quickest most comprehensive safety study of any drug on the planet.
A Phase III Randomized, Double-blind, Placebo-controlled Multicenter Study in Adults, to Determine the Safety, Efficacy, and Immunogenicity of AZD1222, a Non-replicating ChAdOx1 Vector Vaccine, for the Prevention of COVID-19
Actual Study Start Date : August 28, 2020
Actual Primary Completion Date : March 5, 2021
Estimated Study Completion Date : February 14, 2023 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The big pharma company has to release it's scientific data/studies on the jabs by 1st March 2022 .
It's the same data they wanted to surpress for 75 years ...
Ur gonna find out shortly what uve been jabbed with ...
Incase ur wondering why the scamdemic has been abruptly ended ...
Covid killed my the ex who was the mother of my kids and hospitalised me so it no scamdemic at all. Some people need to stop reading the conspiracy theory stories and wake up. I am triple jabbed and will have the vaccine as often as needed. When you have lost someone close and could have died yourself you know it’s real
Sounds like Nocebo effect to me
That really is a somewhat insulting reply to the poster of this comment, dont you think you should show a little respect or compassion?
Well going by the claims that a nocebo affect exists. All I am stating is, is it not plausible?"
No it's not plausible as the nocebo effect and the study relates to a lot of the minor side effects experienced by people receiving the vaccine, not people dying from the virus. My point still stands that maybe you should show a little compassion and respect as the poster has lost someone close to him to the virus and nearly died himself, you comment is somewhat disrespectful really regardless of the circumstances of the death and near death, how would you feel if it was you that had lost someone close to you or nearly died yourself and the same comment was made to you? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The big pharma company has to release it's scientific data/studies on the jabs by 1st March 2022 .
It's the same data they wanted to surpress for 75 years ...
Ur gonna find out shortly what uve been jabbed with ...
Incase ur wondering why the scamdemic has been abruptly ended ...
Covid killed my the ex who was the mother of my kids and hospitalised me so it no scamdemic at all. Some people need to stop reading the conspiracy theory stories and wake up. I am triple jabbed and will have the vaccine as often as needed. When you have lost someone close and could have died yourself you know it’s real
Sounds like Nocebo effect to me
That really is a somewhat insulting reply to the poster of this comment, dont you think you should show a little respect or compassion?
Well going by the claims that a nocebo affect exists. All I am stating is, is it not plausible?
No it's not plausible as the nocebo effect and the study relates to a lot of the minor side effects experienced by people receiving the vaccine, not people dying from the virus. My point still stands that maybe you should show a little compassion and respect as the poster has lost someone close to him to the virus and nearly died himself, you comment is somewhat disrespectful really regardless of the circumstances of the death and near death, how would you feel if it was you that had lost someone close to you or nearly died yourself and the same comment was made to you?"
True, I retract my comment and apologise. I was rather meaning people thinking they have "severe" covid could be a nocebo. I actually wouldn't take much notice myself but appreciate we're all different and feel bad if I offended. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The big pharma company has to release it's scientific data/studies on the jabs by 1st March 2022 .
It's the same data they wanted to surpress for 75 years ...
Ur gonna find out shortly what uve been jabbed with ...
Incase ur wondering why the scamdemic has been abruptly ended ...
Covid killed my the ex who was the mother of my kids and hospitalised me so it no scamdemic at all. Some people need to stop reading the conspiracy theory stories and wake up. I am triple jabbed and will have the vaccine as often as needed. When you have lost someone close and could have died yourself you know it’s real
Sounds like Nocebo effect to me
That really is a somewhat insulting reply to the poster of this comment, dont you think you should show a little respect or compassion?
Well going by the claims that a nocebo affect exists. All I am stating is, is it not plausible?
No it's not plausible as the nocebo effect and the study relates to a lot of the minor side effects experienced by people receiving the vaccine, not people dying from the virus. My point still stands that maybe you should show a little compassion and respect as the poster has lost someone close to him to the virus and nearly died himself, you comment is somewhat disrespectful really regardless of the circumstances of the death and near death, how would you feel if it was you that had lost someone close to you or nearly died yourself and the same comment was made to you?
True, I retract my comment and apologise. I was rather meaning people thinking they have "severe" covid could be a nocebo. I actually wouldn't take much notice myself but appreciate we're all different and feel bad if I offended."
It's not possible to think yourself into providing a positive COVID test sample, nor into the super low O2 sats or lung damage or any of the other empirical observations and tests that can confirm severe COVID infection. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The big pharma company has to release it's scientific data/studies on the jabs by 1st March 2022 .
It's the same data they wanted to surpress for 75 years ...
Ur gonna find out shortly what uve been jabbed with ...
Incase ur wondering why the scamdemic has been abruptly ended ...
Covid killed my the ex who was the mother of my kids and hospitalised me so it no scamdemic at all. Some people need to stop reading the conspiracy theory stories and wake up. I am triple jabbed and will have the vaccine as often as needed. When you have lost someone close and could have died yourself you know it’s real
Sounds like Nocebo effect to me
That really is a somewhat insulting reply to the poster of this comment, dont you think you should show a little respect or compassion?
Well going by the claims that a nocebo affect exists. All I am stating is, is it not plausible?
No it's not plausible as the nocebo effect and the study relates to a lot of the minor side effects experienced by people receiving the vaccine, not people dying from the virus. My point still stands that maybe you should show a little compassion and respect as the poster has lost someone close to him to the virus and nearly died himself, you comment is somewhat disrespectful really regardless of the circumstances of the death and near death, how would you feel if it was you that had lost someone close to you or nearly died yourself and the same comment was made to you?
True, I retract my comment and apologise. I was rather meaning people thinking they have "severe" covid could be a nocebo. I actually wouldn't take much notice myself but appreciate we're all different and feel bad if I offended.
It's not possible to think yourself into providing a positive COVID test sample, nor into the super low O2 sats or lung damage or any of the other empirical observations and tests that can confirm severe COVID infection. "
Yawn |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"A fascinating study has shown that most of the negative vaccine side effects were actually not caused by the vaccine. Those who were given a saline injection had most of the same side effects. Its called the "nocebo' effect as is like a negative placebo.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests"
Or maybe the body also reacts to salt being injected into the blood stream? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
False. Learn to read"
Your own reuters fact check itself claims:-
"Such claims are outside the scope of this check" and also states "Officers have been tasked with reviewing the documents. This process is time consuming and has been prolonged by the submission of further documents by people encouraged to do so online" and also states "According to the force's website, an investigative assessment occures after a crime reference number has been issued. This consists of a review of information gathered to decide whether further investigation is warranted"
Which all says to me it is definitely under investigation? They have to do their job even if pretending they aren't even the police can't pretend this will go away. All will be revealed soon and we shall all learn the outcome of this investigation. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Also:
The Metropolitan Police, provided a statement confirming that an investigation had not been taken forward: "On 20 December, police received allegations of Misconduct in a Public Office against two people who work for public bodies in the U.K. health sector. No investigation has been launched," |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
False. Learn to read
Your own reuters fact check itself claims:-
"Such claims are outside the scope of this check" and also states "Officers have been tasked with reviewing the documents. This process is time consuming and has been prolonged by the submission of further documents by people encouraged to do so online" and also states "According to the force's website, an investigative assessment occures after a crime reference number has been issued. This consists of a review of information gathered to decide whether further investigation is warranted"
Which all says to me it is definitely under investigation? They have to do their job even if pretending they aren't even the police can't pretend this will go away. All will be revealed soon and we shall all learn the outcome of this investigation."
From the information available and, like the placebo effect, some people will develop their own symptoms of side effects from receiving it. I think you may be misunderstanding what has happened and is currently underway.
My take on it is that somebody, via Facebook and other posts, has engaged in wasting police time, via officially reporting a crime. It does get a crime reference number, of course. The police will sort through the guff handed in. That is likely to be the entirety of the activity underway.
Apart from some person on fbook, who has posted bullshit and encouraged others to do the same. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *JB1954Man
over a year ago
Reading |
I remember seeing a television documentary ? Many years ago. This showed how groups of people reacted in certain situations. The one that clearly I remember was. Two groups of I think 10 people were in a room . Asked to taste drinks and rate from bitter to sweetness . It was rigged that first two were given bitter tasting drinks . Plus in amongst group two others were stooges and new what to do. They both reacted to the drink. They had water. Now all saw faces of others drinking the drink. It was not until after all drinks tasted could they all write down result . About 80% said that the first drinks were bitter . Yet only two people actually had the bitter drink . So others reacted to others . All in the mind ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I remember seeing a television documentary ? Many years ago. This showed how groups of people reacted in certain situations. The one that clearly I remember was. Two groups of I think 10 people were in a room . Asked to taste drinks and rate from bitter to sweetness . It was rigged that first two were given bitter tasting drinks . Plus in amongst group two others were stooges and new what to do. They both reacted to the drink. They had water. Now all saw faces of others drinking the drink. It was not until after all drinks tasted could they all write down result . About 80% said that the first drinks were bitter . Yet only two people actually had the bitter drink . So others reacted to others . All in the mind ? "
I’m currently on a trial for a colon cancer vaccine and only 2 people have had this vaccine in the entire world. There’s 4 of us in the study 2 had it and 2 had placebo . But we all have the same side effects. Because we are all spending lots of time together.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Don't lean to the guardian, BBC or sky news for information, it's a sad state of affairs but true. "
Actually, listening to all three of them - and adding in Channel 4 - would give quite a balanced issue on a good number of issues. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
