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Most vaccine side effects aren't truly side effects
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News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda. "
What a load of nonsense, cognitive dissonance is strong here. No matter how much you deny or put up barriers it doesn't stop it from being true.
So much for caring for our fellow human beings. |
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"News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda. "
Nonsense! X |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda.
What a load of nonsense, cognitive dissonance is strong here. No matter how much you deny or put up barriers it doesn't stop it from being true.
So much for caring for our fellow human beings."
 |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda. "
Yes, this will certainly account for a some side effects. Invariably people who obsess over potential side-effects will be hyper vigilant anyway, which produces its own ‘effects’.
Most people see the vaccine for what it is, ie just like any other jab, and feel a little fluey for a day at worst. |
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By *egoMan
over a year ago
Preston |
Wouldn’t surprise me, another reason the vocal antivax conspiracy theorists are actully really dangerous. They don’t appreciate the damage they can do. Simply by saying things which they don’t know about to others of the same ilk, forming a loud echo chamber.
Psychosomatic issues then occur and news of that turns the volume up even louder. |
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"News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda.
What a load of nonsense, cognitive dissonance is strong here. No matter how much you deny or put up barriers it doesn't stop it from being true.
So much for caring for our fellow human beings."
You're right! If people have influenced others such that they have influenced others to have apparent adverse reactions that are seemingly side effects but are cognitively associated nocebos, it would be very sad that they have done this.
You've read the research? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Wouldn’t surprise me, another reason the vocal antivax conspiracy theorists are actully really dangerous. They don’t appreciate the damage they can do. Simply by saying things which they don’t know about to others of the same ilk, forming a loud echo chamber.
Psychosomatic issues then occur and news of that turns the volume up even louder. "
Same could be said of the extreme pro vaxxers. There needs to be a balance tbf. |
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By *hagTonightMan
over a year ago
From the land of haribos. |
"News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda.
Nonsense! X"
This . |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Wouldn’t surprise me, another reason the vocal antivax conspiracy theorists are actully really dangerous. They don’t appreciate the damage they can do. Simply by saying things which they don’t know about to others of the same ilk, forming a loud echo chamber.
Psychosomatic issues then occur and news of that turns the volume up even louder.
Same could be said of the extreme pro vaxxers. There needs to be a balance tbf. "
How would being an ‘extreme pro vaxxer’ create any psychosomatic or psychogenic effects? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yep, nocebo effect.
Citation: Amanzio et al. Lancet Reg Health Eur. 2022 Jan.
Don't like it? Write a rebuttal and submit it to the editor. You might need some data beyond anecdote though. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda. "
On the flip side, the nocebo affect also can be said for people panicking and going to hospital for what otherwise would have been a mild flu or cold. Hypochondria is the term we'd normally associate with these people.
On the other points about the vaccine adverse event reporting, these are apparently notoriously known for under reporting not the other way round. So it is actually open to debate and not just to be dismissed as people being hypochondriacs regarding vaccine adverse events.
Further to that, those taking the vaccine actually would more likely not succumb to the nocebo affect because they are indeed the ones who believe the vaccine is safe and effective so there is no negative mindset regarding risk to the vaccine which would usually cause a nocebo affect, more likely a placebo affect. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Wouldn’t surprise me, another reason the vocal antivax conspiracy theorists are actully really dangerous. They don’t appreciate the damage they can do. Simply by saying things which they don’t know about to others of the same ilk, forming a loud echo chamber.
Psychosomatic issues then occur and news of that turns the volume up even louder.
Same could be said of the extreme pro vaxxers. There needs to be a balance tbf.
How would being an ‘extreme pro vaxxer’ create any psychosomatic or psychogenic effects?"
Exactly |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Have seen someone get hart palpitations before the needle even went in  "
Don't confuse common palpitations with clinically diagnosed myocarditis or pericarditis which are listed side affects of the vaccines and this is a fact. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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So side affects are psychosomatic? Yet the pharma companies are immune to malpractice. Pfizer is making 10 million a day selling a vaccine that was funded by the world's tax payers and refuses to release the patent for an apparently world saving medicine. The focus of this pandemic is wealth not health and now we have vaccine virtue signaling. Personally I don't care if you are vaccinated or not. Your status does not affect my health so you do you. Follow the money and corruption, look into the good law project if you want the real story of the pandemic. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Wouldn’t surprise me, another reason the vocal antivax conspiracy theorists are actully really dangerous. They don’t appreciate the damage they can do. Simply by saying things which they don’t know about to others of the same ilk, forming a loud echo chamber.
Psychosomatic issues then occur and news of that turns the volume up even louder.
Same could be said of the extreme pro vaxxers. There needs to be a balance tbf.
How would being an ‘extreme pro vaxxer’ create any psychosomatic or psychogenic effects?"
Compare it to those healing events, where people have aliments and the are so believing in the power of these healers laying hands on them, that a broken bone apparently becomes fixed again. ‘Extreme pro vaxxers’ come across as the same - have this jab regardless of any side effects or personal choice or anything else just have the jab, it will fix everything.
This is a rather divisive topic and dislike the extremes of the subject. That was why i made my comment.
(I am well aware of the benefits of vaccination btw). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So side affects are psychosomatic? Yet the pharma companies are immune to malpractice. Pfizer is making 10 million a day selling a vaccine that was funded by the world's tax payers and refuses to release the patent for an apparently world saving medicine. The focus of this pandemic is wealth not health and now we have vaccine virtue signaling. Personally I don't care if you are vaccinated or not. Your status does not affect my health so you do you. Follow the money and corruption, look into the good law project if you want the real story of the pandemic. "
Well said
|
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Not really news is it? Some people have psychosomatic symptoms from medication that they are anxious about? In the same way I'm sure some symptoms / reactions may not be reported, some may be psycho somatic. One would reasonably assume that they are investigated and reported back to the person making the report.? "we believe your symptoms/reaction were caused by...."
We either believe what's typed into the yellow card system or we don't... To start filtering stuff in or out based on prejudice is not helping anyone at all. |
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"Have you got allowed links to what you have read please"
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests
For anyone who doesn't like The Guardian, the same research is explained in multiple news outlets. A Google search for "COVID vaccine nocebo effect" will bring up the whole raft of articles, including in Nature and other scientific sources. |
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"So side affects are psychosomatic? Yet the pharma companies are immune to malpractice. Pfizer is making 10 million a day selling a vaccine that was funded by the world's tax payers and refuses to release the patent for an apparently world saving medicine. The focus of this pandemic is wealth not health and now we have vaccine virtue signaling. Personally I don't care if you are vaccinated or not. Your status does not affect my health so you do you. Follow the money and corruption, look into the good law project if you want the real story of the pandemic.
Well said
"
Another well said. |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"Have you got allowed links to what you have read please
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests
For anyone who doesn't like The Guardian, the same research is explained in multiple news outlets. A Google search for "COVID vaccine nocebo effect" will bring up the whole raft of articles, including in Nature and other scientific sources."
Thanks Kinky
To all the people reporting the thread, here is a link to what looks like the OP may have read |
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"Wouldn’t surprise me, another reason the vocal antivax conspiracy theorists are actully really dangerous. They don’t appreciate the damage they can do. Simply by saying things which they don’t know about to others of the same ilk, forming a loud echo chamber.
Psychosomatic issues then occur and news of that turns the volume up even louder.
Same could be said of the extreme pro vaxxers. There needs to be a balance tbf. "
Ha ha! What is an extreme pro vaxxer!! Is that like someone who jumps out of a plane whilst taking the jab!! Or takes the jab whilst free climbing up Mount Everest!! |
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"News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda. "
Going purely by your logic:
Can we then say that people who are scared of covid itself and test positive imagine having worse symptoms than they actually do or does it just go for medicines?
I mean when I had it - everyone was treating me like I was about to die to the point where I almost believed it myself |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Wouldn’t surprise me, another reason the vocal antivax conspiracy theorists are actully really dangerous. They don’t appreciate the damage they can do. Simply by saying things which they don’t know about to others of the same ilk, forming a loud echo chamber.
Psychosomatic issues then occur and news of that turns the volume up even louder.
Same could be said of the extreme pro vaxxers. There needs to be a balance tbf.
How would being an ‘extreme pro vaxxer’ create any psychosomatic or psychogenic effects?
Compare it to those healing events, where people have aliments and the are so believing in the power of these healers laying hands on them, that a broken bone apparently becomes fixed again. ‘Extreme pro vaxxers’ come across as the same - have this jab regardless of any side effects or personal choice or anything else just have the jab, it will fix everything.
This is a rather divisive topic and dislike the extremes of the subject. That was why i made my comment.
(I am well aware of the benefits of vaccination btw). "
If that’s your idea, what are the psychosomatic or psychogenic effects that you think someone who is an ‘extreme pro vaxxer’ could experience? |
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"Have you got allowed links to what you have read please
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests
For anyone who doesn't like The Guardian, the same research is explained in multiple news outlets. A Google search for "COVID vaccine nocebo effect" will bring up the whole raft of articles, including in Nature and other scientific sources.
Thanks Kinky
To all the people reporting the thread, here is a link to what looks like the OP may have read"
You're welcome. |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"So side affects are psychosomatic? Yet the pharma companies are immune to malpractice. Pfizer is making 10 million a day selling a vaccine that was funded by the world's tax payers and refuses to release the patent for an apparently world saving medicine. The focus of this pandemic is wealth not health and now we have vaccine virtue signaling. Personally I don't care if you are vaccinated or not. Your status does not affect my health so you do you. Follow the money and corruption, look into the good law project if you want the real story of the pandemic.
Well said
Another well said. "
What’s the opposite of well said? Because everything written here is clearly nonsense.
And conflating the excellent work the Good Law Project does to expose the Conservative government’s corruption in Covid procurement with conspiracy theories about Covid and the vaccine is a perfect example of anti-vaxxers acquiring information, but not being able to understand it - which is what accounts for the vast majority of their ‘theories’.  |
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"Have you got allowed links to what you have read please"
This is probably the closest. Rugby -
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests |
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"Have you got allowed links to what you have read please
This is probably the closest. Rugby -
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests"
MrShadowBH cites the original research, above |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Wouldn’t surprise me, another reason the vocal antivax conspiracy theorists are actully really dangerous. They don’t appreciate the damage they can do. Simply by saying things which they don’t know about to others of the same ilk, forming a loud echo chamber.
Psychosomatic issues then occur and news of that turns the volume up even louder.
Same could be said of the extreme pro vaxxers. There needs to be a balance tbf.
How would being an ‘extreme pro vaxxer’ create any psychosomatic or psychogenic effects?
Compare it to those healing events, where people have aliments and the are so believing in the power of these healers laying hands on them, that a broken bone apparently becomes fixed again. ‘Extreme pro vaxxers’ come across as the same - have this jab regardless of any side effects or personal choice or anything else just have the jab, it will fix everything.
This is a rather divisive topic and dislike the extremes of the subject. That was why i made my comment.
(I am well aware of the benefits of vaccination btw).
If that’s your idea, what are the psychosomatic or psychogenic effects that you think someone who is an ‘extreme pro vaxxer’ could experience? "
Rough guess?! that being vaccinated against c-19 means they will never catch it? Its a cure? Its will end covid? They are completely protected for life from catching covid?
Who knows?!
Whats your opinion on it? |
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"Not really news is it? Some people have psychosomatic symptoms from medication that they are anxious about? In the same way I'm sure some symptoms / reactions may not be reported, some may be psycho somatic. One would reasonably assume that they are investigated and reported back to the person making the report.? "we believe your symptoms/reaction were caused by...."
We either believe what's typed into the yellow card system or we don't... To start filtering stuff in or out based on prejudice is not helping anyone at all. "
It's good to get valid research evidence about this phenomenon, which isn't particularly well known. It doesn't invalidate any of the yellow card reports, though could help us to understand the likelihood of actual medical issues vs nocebo events. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
MrShadowBH cites the original research, above "
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34729549/
This is the paper the news articles are referencing. Always helps to go to primary source. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Have you got allowed links to what you have read please"
Did you remove my link to an official source yet you allow a guardian link? I don't understand? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Have you got allowed links to what you have read please
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests
For anyone who doesn't like The Guardian, the same research is explained in multiple news outlets. A Google search for "COVID vaccine nocebo effect" will bring up the whole raft of articles, including in Nature and other scientific sources.
Thanks Kinky
To all the people reporting the thread, here is a link to what looks like the OP may have read
You're welcome. "
Aren't you the one claiming corona virus contains DNA ? |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Wouldn’t surprise me, another reason the vocal antivax conspiracy theorists are actully really dangerous. They don’t appreciate the damage they can do. Simply by saying things which they don’t know about to others of the same ilk, forming a loud echo chamber.
Psychosomatic issues then occur and news of that turns the volume up even louder.
Same could be said of the extreme pro vaxxers. There needs to be a balance tbf.
How would being an ‘extreme pro vaxxer’ create any psychosomatic or psychogenic effects?
Compare it to those healing events, where people have aliments and the are so believing in the power of these healers laying hands on them, that a broken bone apparently becomes fixed again. ‘Extreme pro vaxxers’ come across as the same - have this jab regardless of any side effects or personal choice or anything else just have the jab, it will fix everything.
This is a rather divisive topic and dislike the extremes of the subject. That was why i made my comment.
(I am well aware of the benefits of vaccination btw).
If that’s your idea, what are the psychosomatic or psychogenic effects that you think someone who is an ‘extreme pro vaxxer’ could experience?
Rough guess?! that being vaccinated against c-19 means they will never catch it? Its a cure? Its will end covid? They are completely protected for life from catching covid?
Who knows?!
Whats your opinion on it? "
Nothing you’ve listed there is either a recognised psychosomatic or psychogenic effect.
An ‘anti-vaxxer’ mindset can create these recognised effects. You said an ‘extreme pro-vaxxer’ mindset can do the same. Simply trying to get you to explain how. |
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"Have you got allowed links to what you have read please
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests
For anyone who doesn't like The Guardian, the same research is explained in multiple news outlets. A Google search for "COVID vaccine nocebo effect" will bring up the whole raft of articles, including in Nature and other scientific sources.
Thanks Kinky
To all the people reporting the thread, here is a link to what looks like the OP may have read
You're welcome.
Aren't you the one claiming corona virus contains DNA ?"
Eh? Me? SARS-CoV-2 is a positive-sense, single stranded RNA genome |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Wouldn’t surprise me, another reason the vocal antivax conspiracy theorists are actully really dangerous. They don’t appreciate the damage they can do. Simply by saying things which they don’t know about to others of the same ilk, forming a loud echo chamber.
Psychosomatic issues then occur and news of that turns the volume up even louder.
Same could be said of the extreme pro vaxxers. There needs to be a balance tbf.
How would being an ‘extreme pro vaxxer’ create any psychosomatic or psychogenic effects?
Compare it to those healing events, where people have aliments and the are so believing in the power of these healers laying hands on them, that a broken bone apparently becomes fixed again. ‘Extreme pro vaxxers’ come across as the same - have this jab regardless of any side effects or personal choice or anything else just have the jab, it will fix everything.
This is a rather divisive topic and dislike the extremes of the subject. That was why i made my comment.
(I am well aware of the benefits of vaccination btw).
If that’s your idea, what are the psychosomatic or psychogenic effects that you think someone who is an ‘extreme pro vaxxer’ could experience?
Rough guess?! that being vaccinated against c-19 means they will never catch it? Its a cure? Its will end covid? They are completely protected for life from catching covid?
Who knows?!
Whats your opinion on it?
Nothing you’ve listed there is either a recognised psychosomatic or psychogenic effect.
An ‘anti-vaxxer’ mindset can create these recognised effects. You said an ‘extreme pro-vaxxer’ mindset can do the same. Simply trying to get you to explain how."
Ah ok. I thought i had but Thank you for explaining. Ha. I can shut up now then as I've clearly no idea of the finer nuances of the conversation. Peace!!! |
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By *alcon43Woman
over a year ago
Paisley |
"News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda. "
I beg to differ. Too often people are told that symptoms are psychological and not physical. Do you know how demoralising it is to be treated in such a dismissive way? It’s just a way for the medical profession saying they don’t care about how you feel or why. Side effects of vaccines, medication and medical implants should be taken seriously and reported on the Yellow Card on the MHRA website. It’s the only way to draw the attention to the Government about harmful vaccines, medication or medical devices to get them removed. |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"Have you got allowed links to what you have read please
Did you remove my link to an official source yet you allow a guardian link? I don't understand?"
I wasn't asking you for the link to what you were saying, I was asking the OP for a link to the subject |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda.
I beg to differ. Too often people are told that symptoms are psychological and not physical. Do you know how demoralising it is to be treated in such a dismissive way? It’s just a way for the medical profession saying they don’t care about how you feel or why. Side effects of vaccines, medication and medical implants should be taken seriously and reported on the Yellow Card on the MHRA website. It’s the only way to draw the attention to the Government about harmful vaccines, medication or medical devices to get them removed. "
They are investigated. That's where the nocebo study data was drawn from. It's also how the very slight AZ risk to younger recipients and Pfizer risk to younger men was identified. VERY SLIGHT, before you get carried away. Consequently, changes were made to which vaccine was given to whom.
The placebo effect is equally important. That's why double blind testing is carried out in drugs trials.
The findings are what they are without reinterpretation by those less knowledgeable and with less data.
If there are genuine flaws they will be highlighted as the data is all available to check by those who know what they're looking at. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"So people are thinking themselves into blood clots, strokes, heart attacks ect someone get me off this planet. "
Like for catching Covid you mean?
You haven't read the article have you? 
They are talking about most of the minor side effects.
You are welcome. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda. "
This doesn't change the effect that these people genuinely do feel this, which underlines the point about scaring people about the consequences making them more stressed and hypervigilant than they might otherwise have been.
That cannot now be changed. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Have you got allowed links to what you have read please
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests
For anyone who doesn't like The Guardian, the same research is explained in multiple news outlets. A Google search for "COVID vaccine nocebo effect" will bring up the whole raft of articles, including in Nature and other scientific sources.
Thanks Kinky
To all the people reporting the thread, here is a link to what looks like the OP may have read
You're welcome.
Aren't you the one claiming corona virus contains DNA ?"
Aren't you the one who claims to be a "medicinal chemist" but does not seem to understand how his industry works and has very little regard for their skills, ability and integrity? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda.
Going purely by your logic:
Can we then say that people who are scared of covid itself and test positive imagine having worse symptoms than they actually do or does it just go for medicines?
I mean when I had it - everyone was treating me like I was about to die to the point where I almost believed it myself "
I think that is possible, but only to a point if you have relatively mild symptoms.
If you are seriously ill I doubt you will be imagining yourself more I'll than you are in the ICU bed nor will you imagine the secondary complications if you have comorbidities. |
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"News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda.
I beg to differ. Too often people are told that symptoms are psychological and not physical. Do you know how demoralising it is to be treated in such a dismissive way? It’s just a way for the medical profession saying they don’t care about how you feel or why. Side effects of vaccines, medication and medical implants should be taken seriously and reported on the Yellow Card on the MHRA website. It’s the only way to draw the attention to the Government about harmful vaccines, medication or medical devices to get them removed. "
I don't disagree. Any medical professional diagnosing and stating that :symptoms are psychological and not physical' would appear lacking in empathy and potentially ignoring their lack of uncertainty. Often diagnoses have a lack of certainty and they can only advise, based on their experience and from testing etc. Little can often have 100% lack of doubt.
There's also no shame or diminishing of a problem, should some aspects be psychological in any way.
We ideally get to increase our understanding of the psychology of health, including those aspects that influence the side effects from medicines. The potential benefits of medicines would be optimised and negative side effects avoided. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Not really news is it? Some people have psychosomatic symptoms from medication that they are anxious about? In the same way I'm sure some symptoms / reactions may not be reported, some may be psycho somatic. One would reasonably assume that they are investigated and reported back to the person making the report.? "we believe your symptoms/reaction were caused by...."
We either believe what's typed into the yellow card system or we don't... To start filtering stuff in or out based on prejudice is not helping anyone at all. "
It's not "filtered out". That's the point. It's looked at for trends and clusters.
The nocebo effect is just one of the findings that has come out of this for relatively minor side effect reporting. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Have seen someone get hart palpitations before the needle even went in
Don't confuse common palpitations with clinically diagnosed myocarditis or pericarditis which are listed side affects of the vaccines and this is a fact."
It is a side effect for a very small number of people.
Your point being? |
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Anything but nonsense. In fact quite a normal medical issue. Mind and body are intimately connected. Stress is is an underlying cause of so many health issues. Whether we feel worried, anxious, or fearful, the body will send in stress hormones to prepare us for fight or flight. These stress hormones can also cause headaches, heartburn, rapid breathing, high blood pressure, stomach aches, insomnia, tense muscles and even fertility issues, erection problems and low sex drive, and yes in extreme examples, even heart attacks. If people's anxiety is high due to fear of any medical procedure they are at risk of such symptoms which could easily be attributed to the treatment or intervention itself, whether it's a vaccine or something else. I think it's easy to consider therefore that misinformation from anti-vaxxers could make people taking the jab more prone to such side effects - which are really stress-induced rather than vaccine-induced. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda.
Nonsense! X"
Based on what information?
"Common sense" from people's everyday experience of vaccinations during a global pandemic because they are a normal part of everyday life and therefore "common". |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yep, nocebo effect.
Citation: Amanzio et al. Lancet Reg Health Eur. 2022 Jan.
Don't like it? Write a rebuttal and submit it to the editor. You might need some data beyond anecdote though. "
Goes some way to explaining the epidemic of children believing they were born in the wrong body and want to transition to the opposite sex. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yep, nocebo effect.
Citation: Amanzio et al. Lancet Reg Health Eur. 2022 Jan.
Don't like it? Write a rebuttal and submit it to the editor. You might need some data beyond anecdote though.
Goes some way to explaining the epidemic of children believing they were born in the wrong body and want to transition to the opposite sex."
I know you like to be controversial as yesterday when someone said the health workers vaccine protests were 'daft' you responded with 'just like the BLM and LGBT protests'. I did ask you why you thought BLM & LGBT protests were 'daft' but youve declined to answer.
Now your making an issue about children transitioning from one sex to the other, calling it an epidemic.
Is it just to be controversial? or do you have a problem with people of colour, lgbt people and those who wish to transition sex? ..
Have whatever doubts you want about vaccines and epidemioligy but it isnt necessary or relevant to bring other 'issues' you may have into these conversations. |
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"So people are thinking themselves into blood clots, strokes, heart attacks ect someone get me off this planet.
Like for catching Covid you mean?
You haven't read the article have you?
They are talking about most of the minor side effects.
You are welcome."
xx |
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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago
East London |
I was a bit panicky after having my first vaccination, because an acquaintance of mine was very ill after hers and died.
I'm not sure exactly what killed her, but she refused to go to hospital, which may have saved her life.
Anyhow, it did set off my anxiety quite badly after having my first one.
Was fine with the next two.
|
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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago
East London |
"Anything but nonsense. In fact quite a normal medical issue. Mind and body are intimately connected. Stress is is an underlying cause of so many health issues. Whether we feel worried, anxious, or fearful, the body will send in stress hormones to prepare us for fight or flight. These stress hormones can also cause headaches, heartburn, rapid breathing, high blood pressure, stomach aches, insomnia, tense muscles and even fertility issues, erection problems and low sex drive, and yes in extreme examples, even heart attacks. If people's anxiety is high due to fear of any medical procedure they are at risk of such symptoms which could easily be attributed to the treatment or intervention itself, whether it's a vaccine or something else. I think it's easy to consider therefore that misinformation from anti-vaxxers could make people taking the jab more prone to such side effects - which are really stress-induced rather than vaccine-induced."
I was laying in bed thinking I'm going to have a heart attack. I talked myself through it and rationalised with myself. |
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"Yep, nocebo effect.
Citation: Amanzio et al. Lancet Reg Health Eur. 2022 Jan.
Don't like it? Write a rebuttal and submit it to the editor. You might need some data beyond anecdote though.
Goes some way to explaining the epidemic of children believing they were born in the wrong body and want to transition to the opposite sex."
There is no such epidemic, and someone being trans is nothing to do with nocebo.
Get something better to do than obsessing about a tiny minority of people whose existence doesn't affect you at all. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yep, nocebo effect.
Citation: Amanzio et al. Lancet Reg Health Eur. 2022 Jan.
Don't like it? Write a rebuttal and submit it to the editor. You might need some data beyond anecdote though.
Goes some way to explaining the epidemic of children believing they were born in the wrong body and want to transition to the opposite sex.
There is no such epidemic, and someone being trans is nothing to do with nocebo.
Get something better to do than obsessing about a tiny minority of people whose existence doesn't affect you at all. "
Like you obsessing with people who aren't vaccinated? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yep, nocebo effect.
Citation: Amanzio et al. Lancet Reg Health Eur. 2022 Jan.
Don't like it? Write a rebuttal and submit it to the editor. You might need some data beyond anecdote though.
Goes some way to explaining the epidemic of children believing they were born in the wrong body and want to transition to the opposite sex.
There is no such epidemic, and someone being trans is nothing to do with nocebo.
Get something better to do than obsessing about a tiny minority of people whose existence doesn't affect you at all. "
At the Tavistock Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS), the only NHS clinic for gender non-conforming children and young people in the UK, referrals have risen from 72 in 2009-10 to 2,590 in 2018-19.
You'll be telling me that puberty blockers are “fully reversible” next! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yep, nocebo effect.
Citation: Amanzio et al. Lancet Reg Health Eur. 2022 Jan.
Don't like it? Write a rebuttal and submit it to the editor. You might need some data beyond anecdote though.
Goes some way to explaining the epidemic of children believing they were born in the wrong body and want to transition to the opposite sex.
There is no such epidemic, and someone being trans is nothing to do with nocebo.
Get something better to do than obsessing about a tiny minority of people whose existence doesn't affect you at all.
At the Tavistock Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS), the only NHS clinic for gender non-conforming children and young people in the UK, referrals have risen from 72 in 2009-10 to 2,590 in 2018-19.
You'll be telling me that puberty blockers are “fully reversible” next!"
and you problem with young people getting the help they need is what exactly? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So people are thinking themselves into blood clots, strokes, heart attacks ect someone get me off this planet.
Like for catching Covid you mean?
You haven't read the article have you?
They are talking about most of the minor side effects.
You are welcome.
xx"
It's fine, I'll think myself into a wonderful day tomorrow. All is good |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Yep, nocebo effect.
Citation: Amanzio et al. Lancet Reg Health Eur. 2022 Jan.
Don't like it? Write a rebuttal and submit it to the editor. You might need some data beyond anecdote though.
Goes some way to explaining the epidemic of children believing they were born in the wrong body and want to transition to the opposite sex.
There is no such epidemic, and someone being trans is nothing to do with nocebo.
Get something better to do than obsessing about a tiny minority of people whose existence doesn't affect you at all.
At the Tavistock Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS), the only NHS clinic for gender non-conforming children and young people in the UK, referrals have risen from 72 in 2009-10 to 2,590 in 2018-19.
You'll be telling me that puberty blockers are “fully reversible” next!"
You're quite an individual.
This is a tiny portion of young people. A referral does not mean that they will continue with the process. It is a possibility that was not available until relatively recently and awareness has increased.
It may be appropriate for them. It may not. It is up to them to decide and not you.
You are not them nor are you in anyway knowledgeable either medically or psychitrically. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"So people are thinking themselves into blood clots, strokes, heart attacks ect someone get me off this planet.
Like for catching Covid you mean?
You haven't read the article have you?
They are talking about most of the minor side effects.
You are welcome.
xx
It's fine, I'll think myself into a wonderful day tomorrow. All is good "
You may well be able to think youself into a wonderful day. You should, perhaps, read the article before commenting though.
You cannot think yourself out of a severe reaction to Covid.
Once again, you are welcome. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Goes some way to explaining the epidemic of children believing they were born in the wrong body and want to transition to the opposite sex."
The fuck is wrong with you? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Have you got allowed links to what you have read please
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests
For anyone who doesn't like The Guardian, the same research is explained in multiple news outlets. A Google search for "COVID vaccine nocebo effect" will bring up the whole raft of articles, including in Nature and other scientific sources.
Thanks Kinky
To all the people reporting the thread, here is a link to what looks like the OP may have read
You're welcome.
Aren't you the one claiming corona virus contains DNA ?
Eh? Me? SARS-CoV-2 is a positive-sense, single stranded RNA genome "
you had to look that up,trying to tell me the PCR test wan't testing for RNA. How wrong were you. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So people are thinking themselves into blood clots, strokes, heart attacks ect someone get me off this planet.
Like for catching Covid you mean?
You haven't read the article have you?
They are talking about most of the minor side effects.
You are welcome.
xx
It's fine, I'll think myself into a wonderful day tomorrow. All is good
You may well be able to think youself into a wonderful day. You should, perhaps, read the article before commenting though.
You cannot think yourself out of a severe reaction to Covid.
Once again, you are welcome."
The biggest troll bot is here again |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I was a bit panicky after having my first vaccination, because an acquaintance of mine was very ill after hers and died.
I'm not sure exactly what killed her, but she refused to go to hospital, which may have saved her life.
Anyhow, it did set off my anxiety quite badly after having my first one.
Was fine with the next two.
"
Didn't panick you that much then. |
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"Have you got allowed links to what you have read please
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests
For anyone who doesn't like The Guardian, the same research is explained in multiple news outlets. A Google search for "COVID vaccine nocebo effect" will bring up the whole raft of articles, including in Nature and other scientific sources.
Thanks Kinky
To all the people reporting the thread, here is a link to what looks like the OP may have read
You're welcome.
Aren't you the one claiming corona virus contains DNA ?
Eh? Me? SARS-CoV-2 is a positive-sense, single stranded RNA genome you had to look that up,trying to tell me the PCR test wan't testing for RNA. How wrong were you."
No, I didn't. But never mind. PCR can amplify any genomic material - RNA or DNA.
Seeing as you are clearly a world leading expert, please can you describe the steps required to perform a PCR protocol and how to interpret the outcome?
We await with interest.
And no, I did not have to look it up. Do you know what positive-sense, single stranded RNA is? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda.
I beg to differ. Too often people are told that symptoms are psychological and not physical. Do you know how demoralising it is to be treated in such a dismissive way? It’s just a way for the medical profession saying they don’t care about how you feel or why. Side effects of vaccines, medication and medical implants should be taken seriously and reported on the Yellow Card on the MHRA website. It’s the only way to draw the attention to the Government about harmful vaccines, medication or medical devices to get them removed.
They are investigated. That's where the nocebo study data was drawn from. It's also how the very slight AZ risk to younger recipients and Pfizer risk to younger men was identified. VERY SLIGHT, before you get carried away. Consequently, changes were made to which vaccine was given to whom.
The placebo effect is equally important. That's why double blind testing is carried out in drugs trials.
The findings are what they are without reinterpretation by those less knowledgeable and with less data.
If there are genuine flaws they will be highlighted as the data is all available to check by those who know what they're looking at."
changes were made after finding out on the first Guinea pigs in the field. cant have been that rigorously tested at the clinic if they're pulling it from use in various countries and for various ages after discovering issues after the fact. If it's not negligence is mal practice. Yet people don't bat an eye lid  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
This is why majority of people believe covid to be so bad....They were told repeatedly how bad it was and therefore believed themselves and others to be super ill...since the office for national statistics has released covid death data, it's easy to see how the whole thing has been exaggerated. Death from covid in the last 2 yrs is just over 17thou.......pretty average figures for normal flu statistics. No flu deaths recorded last 2 yrs.....conclusion, covid is just flu |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda.
I beg to differ. Too often people are told that symptoms are psychological and not physical. Do you know how demoralising it is to be treated in such a dismissive way? It’s just a way for the medical profession saying they don’t care about how you feel or why. Side effects of vaccines, medication and medical implants should be taken seriously and reported on the Yellow Card on the MHRA website. It’s the only way to draw the attention to the Government about harmful vaccines, medication or medical devices to get them removed.
They are investigated. That's where the nocebo study data was drawn from. It's also how the very slight AZ risk to younger recipients and Pfizer risk to younger men was identified. VERY SLIGHT, before you get carried away. Consequently, changes were made to which vaccine was given to whom.
The placebo effect is equally important. That's why double blind testing is carried out in drugs trials.
The findings are what they are without reinterpretation by those less knowledgeable and with less data.
If there are genuine flaws they will be highlighted as the data is all available to check by those who know what they're looking at. changes were made after finding out on the first Guinea pigs in the field. cant have been that rigorously tested at the clinic if they're pulling it from use in various countries and for various ages after discovering issues after the fact. If it's not negligence is mal practice. Yet people don't bat an eye lid "
A tiny proportion out of millions vaccinated. Just like any other medicine or treatment.
Developed in the same way. Trialled in the same way. Treatment modified from feedback in the same way.
You really do not understand the industry that you claim to work in as a "medicinal chemist" do you?
Not the "gotcha" that you would like.
Sorry. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
No, I didn't. But never mind. PCR can amplify any genomic material - RNA or DNA.
Seeing as you are clearly a world leading expert, please can you describe the steps required to perform a PCR protocol and how to interpret the outcome?
We await with interest.
And no, I did not have to look it up. Do you know what positive-sense, single stranded RNA is? "
This is going to be good. He's currently looking up what the RT part of RT-qPCR means. |
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"
No, I didn't. But never mind. PCR can amplify any genomic material - RNA or DNA.
Seeing as you are clearly a world leading expert, please can you describe the steps required to perform a PCR protocol and how to interpret the outcome?
We await with interest.
And no, I did not have to look it up. Do you know what positive-sense, single stranded RNA is?
This is going to be good. He's currently looking up what the RT part of RT-qPCR means."
My thermocycler is waiting with anticipation |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"This is why majority of people believe covid to be so bad....They were told repeatedly how bad it was and therefore believed themselves and others to be super ill...since the office for national statistics has released covid death data, it's easy to see how the whole thing has been exaggerated. Death from covid in the last 2 yrs is just over 17thou.......pretty average figures for normal flu statistics. No flu deaths recorded last 2 yrs.....conclusion, covid is just flu"
Not really. did you read the article? It refers to the majority of minor symptoms being reported and is specific to vaccine side-effects.
Being admitted to ICU and intubated or dying or Long Covid are not in any way "minor".
The conclusion is that Covid is as serious an illness as it was always thought to be. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda. "
Utter bull shit |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Have you got allowed links to what you have read please
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests
For anyone who doesn't like The Guardian, the same research is explained in multiple news outlets. A Google search for "COVID vaccine nocebo effect" will bring up the whole raft of articles, including in Nature and other scientific sources.
Thanks Kinky
To all the people reporting the thread, here is a link to what looks like the OP may have read
You're welcome.
Aren't you the one claiming corona virus contains DNA ?
Eh? Me? SARS-CoV-2 is a positive-sense, single stranded RNA genome you had to look that up,trying to tell me the PCR test wan't testing for RNA. How wrong were you.
No, I didn't. But never mind. PCR can amplify any genomic material - RNA or DNA.
Seeing as you are clearly a world leading expert, please can you describe the steps required to perform a PCR protocol and how to interpret the outcome?
We await with interest.
And no, I did not have to look it up. Do you know what positive-sense, single stranded RNA is? "
I'll find the post in the other forum where you said the PCR doesn't test for RNA but DNA.
I don't work on a daily basis with PCR testing, that's left to the lab rats or more precisely the robotic samplers these days. Anyway, it's been some years.
I couldn't care less of the protocol but at least I knew the PCR was diagnosing the RNA of corona virus.
Positive stranded RNA clearly refers to the direction the half helix whether clockwise or anti clockwise, the enantiomeric direction so to speak. Like stereoisomers in chemistry only on a macromolecule scale. DNA is a double helix so has a positive half and negative if we go by your terminology.
|
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"News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda. "
Some people will get sucked into any old conspiracy crap. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda.
Some people will get sucked into any old conspiracy crap."
Like believing in our immune system and carrying on living life like humans have for milennia, conspiracy nut jobs aye |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda.
Some people will get sucked into any old conspiracy crap."
Maybe you were being sarcastic  |
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"News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda.
Some people will get sucked into any old conspiracy crap.
Maybe you were being sarcastic "
|
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"
I couldn't care less of the protocol but at least I knew the PCR was diagnosing the RNA of corona virus.
Positive stranded RNA clearly refers to the direction the half helix whether clockwise or anti clockwise, the enantiomeric direction so to speak. Like stereoisomers in chemistry only on a macromolecule scale. DNA is a double helix so has a positive half and negative if we go by your terminology.
"
So you haven't a clue about PCR protocol, jolly good.
And your explanation about the positive sense strand is also incorrect. It's absolutely nothing to do with isomerism.
Positive or negative sense refers to the direction of the reading frame of the RNA. All genetic material is interpreted from the 5' to the 3' end. Positive sense RNA can act both as a genome and as mRNA. The positive sense RNA does not need to be transcribed - it can be directly translated by host cell ribosomes.
Negative sense RNA must first be transcribed before the information can be translated into proteins.
I won't explain transcription and translation because, being such an expert, you will be highly familiar.
I'll be teaching these concepts, and the PCR protocol and applications of it, throughout the forthcoming semester |
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"News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda.
Some people will get sucked into any old conspiracy crap.
Maybe you were being sarcastic
"
I dought any scientific data, research papers and links will be posted to prove the conspiracy crap that the side effects are all in ones own mind and not real. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
So you haven't a clue about PCR protocol, jolly good.
And your explanation about the positive sense strand is also incorrect. It's absolutely nothing to do with isomerism.
Positive or negative sense refers to the direction of the reading frame of the RNA. All genetic material is interpreted from the 5' to the 3' end. Positive sense RNA can act both as a genome and as mRNA. The positive sense RNA does not need to be transcribed - it can be directly translated by host cell ribosomes.
Negative sense RNA must first be transcribed before the information can be translated into proteins.
I won't explain transcription and translation because, being such an expert, you will be highly familiar.
I'll be teaching these concepts, and the PCR protocol and applications of it, throughout the forthcoming semester "
Chapeau. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda.
Some people will get sucked into any old conspiracy crap.
Like believing in our immune system and carrying on living life like humans have for milennia, conspiracy nut jobs aye"
It is unnecessary to "believe" in your immune system. It exists.
The vaccine stimulates your immune system so that you have antibodies able to fight infection without first having to contract the disease.
That's how most vaccines function.
We all trust in our immune systems, but sometimes they need some help. Otherwise lots of people die. Hence the use of vaccines. To prevent this.
It's a shame that you are unaware of this, as a "medicinal chemist". |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Have you got allowed links to what you have read please
Did you remove my link to an official source yet you allow a guardian link? I don't understand?"
It appears that there is a lot you dont understand. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Have you got allowed links to what you have read please
This is probably the closest. Rugby -
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests"
Would you know if there’s been a study of similar situation regarding the nocebo in relation to News media and entertainment as has already been mentioned those taking the shot mostly do so out of choice. Media death counts every day and adverts showing Black Death emanating from peoples mouths and everything saying stay locked away don’t see each other. Psychological drip drip drip. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Have you got allowed links to what you have read please
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests
For anyone who doesn't like The Guardian, the same research is explained in multiple news outlets. A Google search for "COVID vaccine nocebo effect" will bring up the whole raft of articles, including in Nature and other scientific sources."
All main media sources and we all know who controls them.
May be you could do a search for some info on a platform like duck duck go there you will find alternative news sources. I know all of them are just tin hatters however so far most events they have predicted have actually happened.
Its all about balance you need to source your information from many resources. Try Facebook thats always fact checked.
Peace and love |
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"Have you got allowed links to what you have read please
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests
For anyone who doesn't like The Guardian, the same research is explained in multiple news outlets. A Google search for "COVID vaccine nocebo effect" will bring up the whole raft of articles, including in Nature and other scientific sources.
All main media sources and we all know who controls them.
May be you could do a search for some info on a platform like duck duck go there you will find alternative news sources. I know all of them are just tin hatters however so far most events they have predicted have actually happened.
Its all about balance you need to source your information from many resources. Try Facebook thats always fact checked.
Peace and love "
Facebook is fact checked by whom. |
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"Have you got allowed links to what you have read please
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests
For anyone who doesn't like The Guardian, the same research is explained in multiple news outlets. A Google search for "COVID vaccine nocebo effect" will bring up the whole raft of articles, including in Nature and other scientific sources.
All main media sources and we all know who controls them.
May be you could do a search for some info on a platform like duck duck go there you will find alternative news sources. I know all of them are just tin hatters however so far most events they have predicted have actually happened.
Its all about balance you need to source your information from many resources. Try Facebook thats always fact checked.
Peace and love "
It's in the scientific journals. I'll stick with those, thank you. |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"This is why majority of people believe covid to be so bad....They were told repeatedly how bad it was and therefore believed themselves and others to be super ill...since the office for national statistics has released covid death data, it's easy to see how the whole thing has been exaggerated. Death from covid in the last 2 yrs is just over 17thou.......pretty average figures for normal flu statistics. No flu deaths recorded last 2 yrs.....conclusion, covid is just flu"
It isn't. What the report said was out of the 170,000 people who have died from Covid a small percentage of them didn't have any other illness
To be clear, having an illness that people live with is not always a death sentence on it's own |
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"What is the source for your evidence? Without a trusted source this is just nonsense. "
See above. Just internet search for "COVID vaccine nice to effect" and you'll get to the original scientific research. Someone gave the citation earlier on. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yep, nocebo effect.
Citation: Amanzio et al. Lancet Reg Health Eur. 2022 Jan.
Don't like it? Write a rebuttal and submit it to the editor. You might need some data beyond anecdote though.
Goes some way to explaining the epidemic of children believing they were born in the wrong body and want to transition to the opposite sex.
There is no such epidemic, and someone being trans is nothing to do with nocebo.
Get something better to do than obsessing about a tiny minority of people whose existence doesn't affect you at all.
At the Tavistock Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS), the only NHS clinic for gender non-conforming children and young people in the UK, referrals have risen from 72 in 2009-10 to 2,590 in 2018-19.
You'll be telling me that puberty blockers are “fully reversible” next!
You're quite an individual.
This is a tiny portion of young people. A referral does not mean that they will continue with the process. It is a possibility that was not available until relatively recently and awareness has increased.
It may be appropriate for them. It may not. It is up to them to decide and not you.
You are not them nor are you in anyway knowledgeable either medically or psychitrically."
You are not anyway knowledgeable either medically or psychitrically (sic) to diagnose Covid but that doesn't stop you telling people they need to get jabbed. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Yep, nocebo effect.
Citation: Amanzio et al. Lancet Reg Health Eur. 2022 Jan.
Don't like it? Write a rebuttal and submit it to the editor. You might need some data beyond anecdote though.
Goes some way to explaining the epidemic of children believing they were born in the wrong body and want to transition to the opposite sex.
There is no such epidemic, and someone being trans is nothing to do with nocebo.
Get something better to do than obsessing about a tiny minority of people whose existence doesn't affect you at all.
At the Tavistock Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS), the only NHS clinic for gender non-conforming children and young people in the UK, referrals have risen from 72 in 2009-10 to 2,590 in 2018-19.
You'll be telling me that puberty blockers are “fully reversible” next!
You're quite an individual.
This is a tiny portion of young people. A referral does not mean that they will continue with the process. It is a possibility that was not available until relatively recently and awareness has increased.
It may be appropriate for them. It may not. It is up to them to decide and not you.
You are not them nor are you in anyway knowledgeable either medically or psychitrically.
You are not anyway knowledgeable either medically or psychitrically (sic) to diagnose Covid but that doesn't stop you telling people they need to get jabbed."
Thank you for the spell-check. It undoubtedly has some significance
I have not told anyone to get jabbed.
I have taken exception to people misrepresenting the data and advice to imply that vaccines are unsafe or unnecessary. The same with other medical advice intended to keep the population safe and healthy not to "control" us or make us scared for some unspecified reason.
I am not claiming to be qualified in these matters but will defer to those who are. You, however, claim to know better. Why might that be? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I couldn't care less of the protocol but at least I knew the PCR was diagnosing the RNA of corona virus.
Positive stranded RNA clearly refers to the direction the half helix whether clockwise or anti clockwise, the enantiomeric direction so to speak. Like stereoisomers in chemistry only on a macromolecule scale. DNA is a double helix so has a positive half and negative if we go by your terminology.
So you haven't a clue about PCR protocol, jolly good.
And your explanation about the positive sense strand is also incorrect. It's absolutely nothing to do with isomerism.
Positive or negative sense refers to the direction of the reading frame of the RNA. All genetic material is interpreted from the 5' to the 3' end. Positive sense RNA can act both as a genome and as mRNA. The positive sense RNA does not need to be transcribed - it can be directly translated by host cell ribosomes.
Negative sense RNA must first be transcribed before the information can be translated into proteins.
I won't explain transcription and translation because, being such an expert, you will be highly familiar.
I'll be teaching these concepts, and the PCR protocol and applications of it, throughout the forthcoming semester "
Do you get it on with any of your students |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yep, nocebo effect.
Citation: Amanzio et al. Lancet Reg Health Eur. 2022 Jan.
Don't like it? Write a rebuttal and submit it to the editor. You might need some data beyond anecdote though.
Goes some way to explaining the epidemic of children believing they were born in the wrong body and want to transition to the opposite sex.
There is no such epidemic, and someone being trans is nothing to do with nocebo.
Get something better to do than obsessing about a tiny minority of people whose existence doesn't affect you at all.
At the Tavistock Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS), the only NHS clinic for gender non-conforming children and young people in the UK, referrals have risen from 72 in 2009-10 to 2,590 in 2018-19.
You'll be telling me that puberty blockers are “fully reversible” next!
You're quite an individual.
This is a tiny portion of young people. A referral does not mean that they will continue with the process. It is a possibility that was not available until relatively recently and awareness has increased.
It may be appropriate for them. It may not. It is up to them to decide and not you.
You are not them nor are you in anyway knowledgeable either medically or psychitrically.
You are not anyway knowledgeable either medically or psychitrically (sic) to diagnose Covid but that doesn't stop you telling people they need to get jabbed.
Thank you for the spell-check. It undoubtedly has some significance
I have not told anyone to get jabbed.
I have taken exception to people misrepresenting the data and advice to imply that vaccines are unsafe or unnecessary. The same with other medical advice intended to keep the population safe and healthy not to "control" us or make us scared for some unspecified reason.
I am not claiming to be qualified in these matters but will defer to those who are. You, however, claim to know better. Why might that be?"
You certainly claim a lot and have indeed pushed people to get vaccinated. But that's your perogative, seems like you're regretting trying to push people to get vaccinated. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Have you got allowed links to what you have read please
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests
For anyone who doesn't like The Guardian, the same research is explained in multiple news outlets. A Google search for "COVID vaccine nocebo effect" will bring up the whole raft of articles, including in Nature and other scientific sources.
All main media sources and we all know who controls them.
May be you could do a search for some info on a platform like duck duck go there you will find alternative news sources. I know all of them are just tin hatters however so far most events they have predicted have actually happened.
Its all about balance you need to source your information from many resources. Try Facebook thats always fact checked.
Peace and love
Facebook is fact checked by whom."
Excellent point, who fact checks the fact checkers? Who moderates the moderators? |
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"Have you got allowed links to what you have read please
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests
For anyone who doesn't like The Guardian, the same research is explained in multiple news outlets. A Google search for "COVID vaccine nocebo effect" will bring up the whole raft of articles, including in Nature and other scientific sources.
All main media sources and we all know who controls them.
May be you could do a search for some info on a platform like duck duck go there you will find alternative news sources. I know all of them are just tin hatters however so far most events they have predicted have actually happened.
Its all about balance you need to source your information from many resources. Try Facebook thats always fact checked.
Peace and love
Facebook is fact checked by whom.
Excellent point, who fact checks the fact checkers? Who moderates the moderators?"
I'm sure they are all incompetent idiots... Because that would suit the narrative that everything from any "unapproved" source is always complete fabrication. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Have you got allowed links to what you have read please
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests
For anyone who doesn't like The Guardian, the same research is explained in multiple news outlets. A Google search for "COVID vaccine nocebo effect" will bring up the whole raft of articles, including in Nature and other scientific sources.
All main media sources and we all know who controls them.
May be you could do a search for some info on a platform like duck duck go there you will find alternative news sources. I know all of them are just tin hatters however so far most events they have predicted have actually happened.
Its all about balance you need to source your information from many resources. Try Facebook thats always fact checked.
Peace and love
Facebook is fact checked by whom.
Excellent point, who fact checks the fact checkers? Who moderates the moderators?
I'm sure they are all incompetent idiots... Because that would suit the narrative that everything from any "unapproved" source is always complete fabrication. "
Most fact checkers are funded by main stream news or social media platforms so there is no getting away from the mainstream narrative and only ever the counter narrative is checked. In a real open society debate and scientific process is two way not one way. Unfortunately censorship and freedom of speech are shutting down faster than the businesses crippled by clown Covid restrictions. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Yep, nocebo effect.
Citation: Amanzio et al. Lancet Reg Health Eur. 2022 Jan.
Don't like it? Write a rebuttal and submit it to the editor. You might need some data beyond anecdote though.
Goes some way to explaining the epidemic of children believing they were born in the wrong body and want to transition to the opposite sex.
There is no such epidemic, and someone being trans is nothing to do with nocebo.
Get something better to do than obsessing about a tiny minority of people whose existence doesn't affect you at all.
At the Tavistock Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS), the only NHS clinic for gender non-conforming children and young people in the UK, referrals have risen from 72 in 2009-10 to 2,590 in 2018-19.
You'll be telling me that puberty blockers are “fully reversible” next!
You're quite an individual.
This is a tiny portion of young people. A referral does not mean that they will continue with the process. It is a possibility that was not available until relatively recently and awareness has increased.
It may be appropriate for them. It may not. It is up to them to decide and not you.
You are not them nor are you in anyway knowledgeable either medically or psychitrically.
You are not anyway knowledgeable either medically or psychitrically (sic) to diagnose Covid but that doesn't stop you telling people they need to get jabbed.
Thank you for the spell-check. It undoubtedly has some significance
I have not told anyone to get jabbed.
I have taken exception to people misrepresenting the data and advice to imply that vaccines are unsafe or unnecessary. The same with other medical advice intended to keep the population safe and healthy not to "control" us or make us scared for some unspecified reason.
I am not claiming to be qualified in these matters but will defer to those who are. You, however, claim to know better. Why might that be?
You certainly claim a lot and have indeed pushed people to get vaccinated. But that's your perogative, seems like you're regretting trying to push people to get vaccinated."
I would recommend it to someone who asked, but nobody has.
That is not the same as "pushing it" although your determined lying to scare people about the vaccine and even denying the seriousness of the disease is clear with no evidence beyond your claim to be highly qualified in everything to do with the matter as, allegedly, a "medicinal chemist". |
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"Wouldn’t surprise me, another reason the vocal antivax conspiracy theorists are actully really dangerous. They don’t appreciate the damage they can do. Simply by saying things which they don’t know about to others of the same ilk, forming a loud echo chamber.
Psychosomatic issues then occur and news of that turns the volume up even louder. "
So, I simply ‘imagined’ the blood clots that put me in hospital? |
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"Wouldn’t surprise me, another reason the vocal antivax conspiracy theorists are actully really dangerous. They don’t appreciate the damage they can do. Simply by saying things which they don’t know about to others of the same ilk, forming a loud echo chamber.
Psychosomatic issues then occur and news of that turns the volume up even louder.
So, I simply ‘imagined’ the blood clots that put me in hospital? "
Sorry you had that reaction. Have things improved now or are you still having to be monitored?
As a linked aside, and if you don't mind me asking, did you register your reaction in the yellow card system? |
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"News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda. "
The trouble with this type of story is it feeds the binary nature of pretty much all debates. It's right or wrong. It's black or white. You're provax or antivax and nothing in between.
It also rather conveniently ignores the fact that our mind and psyche have huge impacts on our well being or indeed illness. So it would suggest that anything unexplainable is psychosomatic and therefore OK to ignore / discount. I would have thought we would like to investigate why so many and what is the real impact on those peoples lives and therefore how can we improve healthcare and wellness going forward. Rather than use it as yet another crowbar to divide society into pro or anti or any other groupings. It seems somewhat clumsy and overly simplistic at best, lacks any empathy and understanding or acknowledgement.
Ultimately if you exercise a medical procedure on the global population once, twice, three, four times and create a narrative of fear, division hate, it can't be a surprise that some people will be affected by it.
If the yellow card system is not fit for purpose then perhaps they should get some school kids to improve it. |
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"Wouldn’t surprise me, another reason the vocal antivax conspiracy theorists are actully really dangerous. They don’t appreciate the damage they can do. Simply by saying things which they don’t know about to others of the same ilk, forming a loud echo chamber.
Psychosomatic issues then occur and news of that turns the volume up even louder.
So, I simply ‘imagined’ the blood clots that put me in hospital? "
Has vaccination been categorically established as the cause of your clots? I recall that you said you'd last been vaccinated a number of months before the clots began.
Blood clots are a relatively common occurrence in the general population and people have suffered from them for eons before COVID vaccines were a thing.
Whilst it's obviously very unpleasant to have them, we should take care with correlation vs causation. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda.
The trouble with this type of story is it feeds the binary nature of pretty much all debates. It's right or wrong. It's black or white. You're provax or antivax and nothing in between.
It also rather conveniently ignores the fact that our mind and psyche have huge impacts on our well being or indeed illness. So it would suggest that anything unexplainable is psychosomatic and therefore OK to ignore / discount. I would have thought we would like to investigate why so many and what is the real impact on those peoples lives and therefore how can we improve healthcare and wellness going forward. Rather than use it as yet another crowbar to divide society into pro or anti or any other groupings. It seems somewhat clumsy and overly simplistic at best, lacks any empathy and understanding or acknowledgement.
Ultimately if you exercise a medical procedure on the global population once, twice, three, four times and create a narrative of fear, division hate, it can't be a surprise that some people will be affected by it.
If the yellow card system is not fit for purpose then perhaps they should get some school kids to improve it. "
I agree that this does not imply that all unexplainable occurrences are psychosomatic.
The study very specifically refers to minor side effects, and of course, "real" or not the outcome to how people feel is the same and needs to be treated with kindness.
The fear of Covid (and passing it on to those more vulnerable) should not be minimised nor exaggerated. However, the fear of vaccination has been artificially exaggerated. MMR as an example that is being repeated. That had a lasting effect when there was little concern before.
Some people have (probably had at this stage) legitimate concerns about vaccines produced at the rate that they were. However, there is so much legitimate information, so widely available that at this stage you have to make a significant effort to avoid it or find a way to discredit it
I do not think that it is resolvable now. Beliefs are embedded and only contracting severe illness seems to bring about a change in perception.
The Yellow Card scheme is fit for the purpose intended which is looking for trends and investigating potential problems. The data is being misused by those trying to prove a point for which there is minimal supporting evidence.
Again, little that can be done other than to make it less accessible, which is even less helpful. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Wouldn’t surprise me, another reason the vocal antivax conspiracy theorists are actully really dangerous. They don’t appreciate the damage they can do. Simply by saying things which they don’t know about to others of the same ilk, forming a loud echo chamber.
Psychosomatic issues then occur and news of that turns the volume up even louder.
So, I simply ‘imagined’ the blood clots that put me in hospital? "
To be clear, the nocebo effect being described is for minor side-effects, not serious ones.
I hope that you have recovered.
The vaccine may have caused your blood clots. It is, actually more likely that a person would have them from an unrelated matter. That is how statistics for a population of 68 million work, but we do not live at that scale.
That does not help you directly nor will it prevent you from associating the two events, even if there was no link. Your experience is a personal one. Sometimes what seems obvious is not. |
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"Wouldn’t surprise me, another reason the vocal antivax conspiracy theorists are actully really dangerous. They don’t appreciate the damage they can do. Simply by saying things which they don’t know about to others of the same ilk, forming a loud echo chamber.
Psychosomatic issues then occur and news of that turns the volume up even louder.
So, I simply ‘imagined’ the blood clots that put me in hospital? "
The nocebo and placebo effects are far more subtle and complex than just imagining something and it causing a result. Colours of medication affect results; verbal and non-verbal communication affect results - medics, package leaflets, media stories; our prior experience and knowledge affect results, etc. Much of these effects are outside of our awareness. They can involve biochemical processes and are still little understood. They do highlight the power of our mind and body very well though. |
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"Wouldn’t surprise me, another reason the vocal antivax conspiracy theorists are actully really dangerous. They don’t appreciate the damage they can do. Simply by saying things which they don’t know about to others of the same ilk, forming a loud echo chamber.
Psychosomatic issues then occur and news of that turns the volume up even louder.
So, I simply ‘imagined’ the blood clots that put me in hospital?
Sorry you had that reaction. Have things improved now or are you still having to be monitored?
As a linked aside, and if you don't mind me asking, did you register your reaction in the yellow card system? "
I’m a lot better thanks. Still awaiting results of a CT scan and a heart scan.
The nurse that did the heart scan said that AZ is the vaccine that they get all the clots with. I’m told that in Australia there is a group starting legal action, something we can’t do here. |
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By *hagTonightMan
over a year ago
From the land of haribos. |
"This is why majority of people believe covid to be so bad....They were told repeatedly how bad it was and therefore believed themselves and others to be super ill...since the office for national statistics has released covid death data, it's easy to see how the whole thing has been exaggerated. Death from covid in the last 2 yrs is just over 17thou.......pretty average figures for normal flu statistics. No flu deaths recorded last 2 yrs.....conclusion, covid is just flu"
This . |
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"News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda.
Nonsense! X"
Always thought to myself Candy
Where can I find the expert advice on anything to do with Covid19
I keep forgetting they are all on here |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
And most don’t get covid19 as it doesn’t exist in the manner it has been presented. So at least we have it cleared up that all is illness of the mind. I guess if we were to believe those involved the science of neuroscience, then we wouldn’t be in doubt.  |
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"News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda.
Nonsense! X
Always thought to myself Candy
Where can I find the expert advice on anything to do with Covid19
I keep forgetting they are all on here "
There are a lot of these types of snidy / "witty" comments in here, which seem to try to discredit or devalue peoples personal experiences or knowledge or plain common sense. As if the scientists never get anything wrong or are the only ones permitted an opinion. We seem to be happy to transfer not just the sovereignty of our body to strangers but also of our minds. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda.
Nonsense! X
Always thought to myself Candy
Where can I find the expert advice on anything to do with Covid19
I keep forgetting they are all on here
There are a lot of these types of snidy / "witty" comments in here, which seem to try to discredit or devalue peoples personal experiences or knowledge or plain common sense. As if the scientists never get anything wrong or are the only ones permitted an opinion. We seem to be happy to transfer not just the sovereignty of our body to strangers but also of our minds. "
Ain’t that the truth. “God” forbid any of us ever attempt to think for ourselves or seek to probe the accepted narrative (even pointing out inconsistencies) because you know, we are not qualified or experienced enough to question!
Despite plenty of historical precedents, THIS TIME we must just accept the narrative because...reasons! It’s different this time. You just have to trust us this time. If you don’t trust us without question then you must be a conspiracy theory nut-job! We simply do not encourage or welcome any attempt at critical thinking and will immediately do all we can to discredit you and shut you down!
Been saying it all along, tribalist binary arguments are destroying society. |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"This is why majority of people believe covid to be so bad....They were told repeatedly how bad it was and therefore believed themselves and others to be super ill...since the office for national statistics has released covid death data, it's easy to see how the whole thing has been exaggerated. Death from covid in the last 2 yrs is just over 17thou.......pretty average figures for normal flu statistics. No flu deaths recorded last 2 yrs.....conclusion, covid is just fluThis ."
This nonsense is what you get when people don’t understand the first thing about the ‘data’ that are ‘analysing’.
It’s true to say that Covid has been identified as the only cause of death in around 17,000 people. When that statistic is being quoted as some sort of indicator that Covid isn’t a risk for many people, it doesn’t recognise (for reasons of ignorance or deceit) is that in all the other 150,000+ deaths, Covid was the cause of death. Someone with asthma who dies because they contracted Covid wasn’t killed by asthma, they were killed by Covid. Someone with an ageing heart who does because they contracted Covid wasn’t killed by an ageing heart, they were killed by Covid.
Most younger and middle aged people also don’t realise that they can have undiagnosed underlying health issues that they won’t find out about until they age, or Covid causes it to become serious. As an example, the vast majority of the over 50s who consider themselves healthy will have a health issue not deemed serious on its own that would be noted as an underlying health issue if they become ill from Covid, and as a consequence could be fatal. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"This is why majority of people believe covid to be so bad....They were told repeatedly how bad it was and therefore believed themselves and others to be super ill...since the office for national statistics has released covid death data, it's easy to see how the whole thing has been exaggerated. Death from covid in the last 2 yrs is just over 17thou.......pretty average figures for normal flu statistics. No flu deaths recorded last 2 yrs.....conclusion, covid is just fluThis ."
No Covid is not "just flu"
'Asked about remarks that Covid-19 should be treated like the flu, Dr Nabarro [WHO’s special envoy for Covid-19]told Sky News: “I keep wondering what the people who make these amazing predictions know that I and my colleagues in the World Health Organisation don’t know.
“You see, what people are seeing from around the world and reporting to the WHO is this is still a very, very dangerous virus, especially for people who have not been vaccinated and who’ve not been exposed to it before.
“It can also mutate and form variants and we’ve seen several but we know there are more not far away.
“So quite honestly, we are not saying that this should be considered to be like flu or indeed like anything else.
“It’s a new virus, and we must go on treating it as though it is full of surprises, very nasty and rather cunning.”
He told the broadcaster: “All governments everywhere should not suggest to people that the data have suddenly changed, or the viruses suddenly got incredibly weak."'
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/david-nabarro-covid-who-boris-johnson-europe-b1999249.html |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda.
Nonsense! X
Always thought to myself Candy
Where can I find the expert advice on anything to do with Covid19
I keep forgetting they are all on here
There are a lot of these types of snidy / "witty" comments in here, which seem to try to discredit or devalue peoples personal experiences or knowledge or plain common sense. As if the scientists never get anything wrong or are the only ones permitted an opinion. We seem to be happy to transfer not just the sovereignty of our body to strangers but also of our minds.
Ain’t that the truth. “God” forbid any of us ever attempt to think for ourselves or seek to probe the accepted narrative (even pointing out inconsistencies) because you know, we are not qualified or experienced enough to question!
Despite plenty of historical precedents, THIS TIME we must just accept the narrative because...reasons! It’s different this time. You just have to trust us this time. If you don’t trust us without question then you must be a conspiracy theory nut-job! We simply do not encourage or welcome any attempt at critical thinking and will immediately do all we can to discredit you and shut you down!
Been saying it all along, tribalist binary arguments are destroying society. "
Been saying it all along; question what you like then explain why your own interpretation of the data and subsequent recommendations is more valid than those who do the job and have the full context and information available to them. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"News from the last week or so, points to the majority 2/3rds or so, of side effects from Covid vaccines being not triggered by the physical vaccine itself but our minds.
We're mostly aware of the placebo effect, where we gain the effects of a medicine partly from our mind's influence. Unfortunately, the reverse of this can happen too, where we gain a negative result, such as side effects, that were driven by our mind.
Considering that there's been a huge push, millions of messages etc, circulated by antivax groups and individuals, perhaps we should be much more concerned that the vast majority of side effects are psychologically driven and potentially those are so very high, because of the antivaxer driven agenda.
Nonsense! X
Always thought to myself Candy
Where can I find the expert advice on anything to do with Covid19
I keep forgetting they are all on here
There are a lot of these types of snidy / "witty" comments in here, which seem to try to discredit or devalue peoples personal experiences or knowledge or plain common sense. As if the scientists never get anything wrong or are the only ones permitted an opinion. We seem to be happy to transfer not just the sovereignty of our body to strangers but also of our minds.
Ain’t that the truth. “God” forbid any of us ever attempt to think for ourselves or seek to probe the accepted narrative (even pointing out inconsistencies) because you know, we are not qualified or experienced enough to question!
Despite plenty of historical precedents, THIS TIME we must just accept the narrative because...reasons! It’s different this time. You just have to trust us this time. If you don’t trust us without question then you must be a conspiracy theory nut-job! We simply do not encourage or welcome any attempt at critical thinking and will immediately do all we can to discredit you and shut you down!
Been saying it all along, tribalist binary arguments are destroying society.
Been saying it all along; question what you like then explain why your own interpretation of the data and subsequent recommendations is more valid than those who do the job and have the full context and information available to them."
***t u m b l e w e e d*** |
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"This is why majority of people believe covid to be so bad....They were told repeatedly how bad it was and therefore believed themselves and others to be super ill...since the office for national statistics has released covid death data, it's easy to see how the whole thing has been exaggerated. Death from covid in the last 2 yrs is just over 17thou.......pretty average figures for normal flu statistics. No flu deaths recorded last 2 yrs.....conclusion, covid is just fluThis .
This nonsense is what you get when people don’t understand the first thing about the ‘data’ that are ‘analysing’.
It’s true to say that Covid has been identified as the only cause of death in around 17,000 people. When that statistic is being quoted as some sort of indicator that Covid isn’t a risk for many people, it doesn’t recognise (for reasons of ignorance or deceit) is that in all the other 150,000+ deaths, Covid was the cause of death. Someone with asthma who dies because they contracted Covid wasn’t killed by asthma, they were killed by Covid. Someone with an ageing heart who does because they contracted Covid wasn’t killed by an ageing heart, they were killed by Covid.
Most younger and middle aged people also don’t realise that they can have undiagnosed underlying health issues that they won’t find out about until they age, or Covid causes it to become serious. As an example, the vast majority of the over 50s who consider themselves healthy will have a health issue not deemed serious on its own that would be noted as an underlying health issue if they become ill from Covid, and as a consequence could be fatal."
Indeed. I'm not sure what benefit or purpose it serves knowing covid and only covid killed 17k people... When we know it has sadly touched so many other lives. It's similar to asking how many were killed by smoking and only smoking. |
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"This is why majority of people believe covid to be so bad....They were told repeatedly how bad it was and therefore believed themselves and others to be super ill...since the office for national statistics has released covid death data, it's easy to see how the whole thing has been exaggerated. Death from covid in the last 2 yrs is just over 17thou.......pretty average figures for normal flu statistics. No flu deaths recorded last 2 yrs.....conclusion, covid is just fluThis .
No Covid is not "just flu"
'Asked about remarks that Covid-19 should be treated like the flu, Dr Nabarro [WHO’s special envoy for Covid-19]told Sky News: “I keep wondering what the people who make these amazing predictions know that I and my colleagues in the World Health Organisation don’t know.
“You see, what people are seeing from around the world and reporting to the WHO is this is still a very, very dangerous virus, especially for people who have not been vaccinated and who’ve not been exposed to it before.
“It can also mutate and form variants and we’ve seen several but we know there are more not far away.
“So quite honestly, we are not saying that this should be considered to be like flu or indeed like anything else.
“It’s a new virus, and we must go on treating it as though it is full of surprises, very nasty and rather cunning.”
He told the broadcaster: “All governments everywhere should not suggest to people that the data have suddenly changed, or the viruses suddenly got incredibly weak."'
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/david-nabarro-covid-who-boris-johnson-europe-b1999249.html"
I wonder who funds the WHO… once you see who funds them it’s quite difficult to take them seriously |
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"This is why majority of people believe covid to be so bad....They were told repeatedly how bad it was and therefore believed themselves and others to be super ill...since the office for national statistics has released covid death data, it's easy to see how the whole thing has been exaggerated. Death from covid in the last 2 yrs is just over 17thou.......pretty average figures for normal flu statistics. No flu deaths recorded last 2 yrs.....conclusion, covid is just fluThis .
No Covid is not "just flu"
'Asked about remarks that Covid-19 should be treated like the flu, Dr Nabarro [WHO’s special envoy for Covid-19]told Sky News: “I keep wondering what the people who make these amazing predictions know that I and my colleagues in the World Health Organisation don’t know.
“You see, what people are seeing from around the world and reporting to the WHO is this is still a very, very dangerous virus, especially for people who have not been vaccinated and who’ve not been exposed to it before.
“It can also mutate and form variants and we’ve seen several but we know there are more not far away.
“So quite honestly, we are not saying that this should be considered to be like flu or indeed like anything else.
“It’s a new virus, and we must go on treating it as though it is full of surprises, very nasty and rather cunning.”
He told the broadcaster: “All governments everywhere should not suggest to people that the data have suddenly changed, or the viruses suddenly got incredibly weak."'
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/david-nabarro-covid-who-boris-johnson-europe-b1999249.html
I wonder who funds the WHO… once you see who funds them it’s quite difficult to take them seriously "
So this is the list of top contributors taken from the WHO website
Germany
Japan
United States of America
Republic of Korea
European Commission
Australia
COVID-19 Solidarity Fund
GAVI Alliance
United Nations Development Programme
Bill & Melinda Gates Foundationn
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
New Zealand
So who apart from the gates foundation (who some people seem to have an issue with but are happy to use his software in every day life) is a problem as I see a number of different countries including our own in the list and the UN
just because a rich person donates money from his foundation doesn't mean he runs it, it's more likely that people like the UN would have more of an influence than Bill Gates who is just a rich person donating money to a health organisation because he believes in the work they do |
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"This is why majority of people believe covid to be so bad....They were told repeatedly how bad it was and therefore believed themselves and others to be super ill...since the office for national statistics has released covid death data, it's easy to see how the whole thing has been exaggerated. Death from covid in the last 2 yrs is just over 17thou.......pretty average figures for normal flu statistics. No flu deaths recorded last 2 yrs.....conclusion, covid is just fluThis .
No Covid is not "just flu"
'Asked about remarks that Covid-19 should be treated like the flu, Dr Nabarro [WHO’s special envoy for Covid-19]told Sky News: “I keep wondering what the people who make these amazing predictions know that I and my colleagues in the World Health Organisation don’t know.
“You see, what people are seeing from around the world and reporting to the WHO is this is still a very, very dangerous virus, especially for people who have not been vaccinated and who’ve not been exposed to it before.
“It can also mutate and form variants and we’ve seen several but we know there are more not far away.
“So quite honestly, we are not saying that this should be considered to be like flu or indeed like anything else.
“It’s a new virus, and we must go on treating it as though it is full of surprises, very nasty and rather cunning.”
He told the broadcaster: “All governments everywhere should not suggest to people that the data have suddenly changed, or the viruses suddenly got incredibly weak."'
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/david-nabarro-covid-who-boris-johnson-europe-b1999249.html
I wonder who funds the WHO… once you see who funds them it’s quite difficult to take them seriously
So this is the list of top contributors taken from the WHO website
Germany
Japan
United States of America
Republic of Korea
European Commission
Australia
COVID-19 Solidarity Fund
GAVI Alliance
United Nations Development Programme
Bill & Melinda Gates Foundationn
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
New Zealand
So who apart from the gates foundation (who some people seem to have an issue with but are happy to use his software in every day life) is a problem as I see a number of different countries including our own in the list and the UN
just because a rich person donates money from his foundation doesn't mean he runs it, it's more likely that people like the UN would have more of an influence than Bill Gates who is just a rich person donating money to a health organisation because he believes in the work they do"
And who amongst us would have donated so generously to help billions around the world? |
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By *d6869Man
over a year ago
Aberdeen |
"Wouldn’t surprise me, another reason the vocal antivax conspiracy theorists are actully really dangerous. They don’t appreciate the damage they can do. Simply by saying things which they don’t know about to others of the same ilk, forming a loud echo chamber.
Psychosomatic issues then occur and news of that turns the volume up even louder.
In his head there will be no balance, anti-vaxxers cause pro-vaxxers psychological issues :/
Same could be said of the extreme pro vaxxers. There needs to be a balance tbf. "
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"Yep, nocebo effect.
Citation: Amanzio et al. Lancet Reg Health Eur. 2022 Jan.
Don't like it? Write a rebuttal and submit it to the editor. You might need some data beyond anecdote though.
Goes some way to explaining the epidemic of children believing they were born in the wrong body and want to transition to the opposite sex."
Transphobic bollocks. |
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I think this post categorically proves the virus thread should now be closed.
It's been the most divisive group on here, never seen so much nastiness, self centred opinion and utter nonsense.
But, but, but, bloody funny too.
Get back to work, the devil finds work for idle hands.
Just as a sideline, would what you read on here influence a meet.
Would for us.
Pity really. |
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"Yep, nocebo effect.
Citation: Amanzio et al. Lancet Reg Health Eur. 2022 Jan.
Don't like it? Write a rebuttal and submit it to the editor. You might need some data beyond anecdote though.
Goes some way to explaining the epidemic of children believing they were born in the wrong body and want to transition to the opposite sex.
Transphobic bollocks."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This is why majority of people believe covid to be so bad....They were told repeatedly how bad it was and therefore believed themselves and others to be super ill...since the office for national statistics has released covid death data, it's easy to see how the whole thing has been exaggerated. Death from covid in the last 2 yrs is just over 17thou.......pretty average figures for normal flu statistics. No flu deaths recorded last 2 yrs.....conclusion, covid is just fluThis .
No Covid is not "just flu"
'Asked about remarks that Covid-19 should be treated like the flu, Dr Nabarro [WHO’s special envoy for Covid-19]told Sky News: “I keep wondering what the people who make these amazing predictions know that I and my colleagues in the World Health Organisation don’t know.
“You see, what people are seeing from around the world and reporting to the WHO is this is still a very, very dangerous virus, especially for people who have not been vaccinated and who’ve not been exposed to it before.
“It can also mutate and form variants and we’ve seen several but we know there are more not far away.
“So quite honestly, we are not saying that this should be considered to be like flu or indeed like anything else.
“It’s a new virus, and we must go on treating it as though it is full of surprises, very nasty and rather cunning.”
He told the broadcaster: “All governments everywhere should not suggest to people that the data have suddenly changed, or the viruses suddenly got incredibly weak."'
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/david-nabarro-covid-who-boris-johnson-europe-b1999249.html
I wonder who funds the WHO… once you see who funds them it’s quite difficult to take them seriously "
Who does fund who? |
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By *d6869Man
over a year ago
Aberdeen |
"I think this post categorically proves the virus thread should now be closed.
It's been the most divisive group on here, never seen so much nastiness, self centred opinion and utter nonsense.
But, but, but, bloody funny too.
Get back to work, the devil finds work for idle hands.
Just as a sideline, would what you read on here influence a meet.
Would for us.
Pity really. "
I would argue that this section on Fab forums should have never been created in the first place, plenty of other forms of media to talk about this subject |
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"I think this post categorically proves the virus thread should now be closed.
It's been the most divisive group on here, never seen so much nastiness, self centred opinion and utter nonsense.
But, but, but, bloody funny too.
Get back to work, the devil finds work for idle hands.
Just as a sideline, would what you read on here influence a meet.
Would for us.
Pity really.
I would argue that this section on Fab forums should have never been created in the first place, plenty of other forms of media to talk about this subject"
Other forum areas would have been used instead and Fab has previously created new forum topic sections when very active topics get littered around, such as in the Lounge etc. Many people have been helped, with discussions about clubs and access, employment etc. Moderators would have had an easier job this way and as volunteers, anything that makes the forum easier work is welcome.
It also means nobody is forced to see endless topics that they have zero interest in, or nothing of any value to add. |
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