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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Just watched a video where a very elderly woman (roughly late 80s early 90s) in Italy was refused access onto a bus by the police because she didn't have an app on her phone (she didn't own a smartphone) and didn't have any papers, I guess they would have shown her vaccination status. This woman was masked. So what's the issue with allowing her on the bus?
Tell me again, considering the actions of places like Italy, Austria, Denmark, Latvia etc etc, how this push to have everyone vaccinated and constantly carrying proof of it, isn't simply governments capitalising on a pandemic to further their own power over their people? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Just watched a video where a very elderly woman (roughly late 80s early 90s) in Italy was refused access onto a bus by the police because she didn't have an app on her phone (she didn't own a smartphone) and didn't have any papers, I guess they would have shown her vaccination status. This woman was masked. So what's the issue with allowing her on the bus?
Tell me again, considering the actions of places like Italy, Austria, Denmark, Latvia etc etc, how this push to have everyone vaccinated and constantly carrying proof of it, isn't simply governments capitalising on a pandemic to further their own power over their people? "
That's exactly what they are doing.
And this is to remain indefinitely.
Each governments covid powers/acts are being extended, like goal posts.
No pass, no freedom. Basically.  |
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By *ik MMan
over a year ago
Lancashire |
"Just watched a video where a very elderly woman (roughly late 80s early 90s) in Italy was refused access onto a bus by the police because she didn't have an app on her phone (she didn't own a smartphone) and didn't have any papers, I guess they would have shown her vaccination status. This woman was masked. So what's the issue with allowing her on the bus?
Tell me again, considering the actions of places like Italy, Austria, Denmark, Latvia etc etc, how this push to have everyone vaccinated and constantly carrying proof of it, isn't simply governments capitalising on a pandemic to further their own power over their people? "
The welfare of humanity has always been the alibi of tyrants |
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Thank God we live in England where the government abhors vaccine passports.
We're so free. It's so wonderful.
It'll be even freer and more glorious when they criminalise protest and give themselves the power to overrule the judiciary.
And justice is glorious and served so well with the criminalising of ordinary people holding gatherings and refusal to even investigate when the politicians do it under the same circumstances.
Lady Justice smiles upon beautiful England, so fair and glorious and a shining example of the rule of law. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm coming at this cold...
But a mask isn't guaranteed protection from covid. And as a 80 yo if she's unvaccinated she's at high risk of needing hospitalisation.
If she got ill and took up a bed, thats an extra cost to society and could effect others that get ill. Especially if hospitals are near maxed out.
So is it right that the law prevents her from doing something that could affect others ?
Not clear cut imo. Especially at older ages where it's more likely you will affect others.
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From Monday in Italy they are bringing in the Super green passport, so unless you're triple vaccinated or can show proof of a covid infection within the last 6 months you're not going to get into bars, restaurants, cinemas or any public buildings. Food shops and pharmacy's are exempt. |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"I'm coming at this cold...
But a mask isn't guaranteed protection from covid. And as a 80 yo if she's unvaccinated she's at high risk of needing hospitalisation.
If she got ill and took up a bed, thats an extra cost to society and could effect others that get ill. Especially if hospitals are near maxed out.
So is it right that the law prevents her from doing something that could affect others ?
Not clear cut imo. Especially at older ages where it's more likely you will affect others.
"
At that age it would be safer for the jobsworth b*at*rd to let her on the bus instead of leaving her in the winter air, prolonged exposure to which would risk weakening her immune system and therefore making her more susceptible to infection! |
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"Thank God we live in England where the government abhors vaccine passports.
We're so free. It's so wonderful.
It'll be even freer and more glorious when they criminalise protest and give themselves the power to overrule the judiciary.
And justice is glorious and served so well with the criminalising of ordinary people holding gatherings and refusal to even investigate when the politicians do it under the same circumstances.
Lady Justice smiles upon beautiful England, so fair and glorious and a shining example of the rule of law."
I don't think we've agreed on anything but this. Absolutely this
I'm not anti Vax or pro Vax. I'm pro choice. Do what you think is best for yourself.
But I'm deadset against vaccine passports as I don't trust governments not to abuse the power
In the same way they are trying to slowly outlaw the right to protest
|
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"Thank God we live in England where the government abhors vaccine passports.
We're so free. It's so wonderful.
It'll be even freer and more glorious when they criminalise protest and give themselves the power to overrule the judiciary.
And justice is glorious and served so well with the criminalising of ordinary people holding gatherings and refusal to even investigate when the politicians do it under the same circumstances.
Lady Justice smiles upon beautiful England, so fair and glorious and a shining example of the rule of law.
I don't think we've agreed on anything but this. Absolutely this
I'm not anti Vax or pro Vax. I'm pro choice. Do what you think is best for yourself.
But I'm deadset against vaccine passports as I don't trust governments not to abuse the power
In the same way they are trying to slowly outlaw the right to protest
"
Unfortunately I was being sarcastic  |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
Too far, there is a reason for this and I expect the minority will not like it...
Extra restrictions or a lockdown will only be introduced to protect the minority of people who are NOT vaccinated.
The vaccinated are not going to blow a hole in the NHS, poorly maybe but less likely to be hospitalised.
Here in the UK the government are taking a less aggressive approach than our EU neighbours. Do the majority of us need to be potentially restricted to look after those that choose not to be socially supportive? |
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"Too far, there is a reason for this and I expect the minority will not like it...
Extra restrictions or a lockdown will only be introduced to protect the minority of people who are NOT vaccinated.
The vaccinated are not going to blow a hole in the NHS, poorly maybe but less likely to be hospitalised.
Here in the UK the government are taking a less aggressive approach than our EU neighbours. Do the majority of us need to be potentially restricted to look after those that choose not to be socially supportive?"
I think it will also depend on more data on what Omicron does re vaccinated immunity. Measures will be to protect the health service - which we all could potentially need, we never know. |
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By *ad66Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"I'm coming at this cold...
But a mask isn't guaranteed protection from covid. And as a 80 yo if she's unvaccinated she's at high risk of needing hospitalisation.
If she got ill and took up a bed, thats an extra cost to society and could effect others that get ill. Especially if hospitals are near maxed out.
So is it right that the law prevents her from doing something that could affect others ?
Not clear cut imo. Especially at older ages where it's more likely you will affect others.
"
So it's OK to refuse a very elderly lady access to transport? You think it's OK for a woman of that age to be left standing in the street unable to get where she needs to get (home probably to get warm & rest) & you think that's the best opinion??
You still think a government cares about you when they allow this to happen? This shows perfectly the "do as we tell you" mentality tyrants who are forcing this totalitarianism on the public under the guise of public health! |
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"Too far, there is a reason for this and I expect the minority will not like it...
Extra restrictions or a lockdown will only be introduced to protect the minority of people who are NOT vaccinated.
The vaccinated are not going to blow a hole in the NHS, poorly maybe but less likely to be hospitalised.
Here in the UK the government are taking a less aggressive approach than our EU neighbours. Do the majority of us need to be potentially restricted to look after those that choose not to be socially supportive?"
This is all part off the super green pass and these travel restrictions only came In yesterday. People can still obtain the green pass even if they are not vaccinated, but they are required to obtain negative tests every 48 hours. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"Too far, there is a reason for this and I expect the minority will not like it...
Extra restrictions or a lockdown will only be introduced to protect the minority of people who are NOT vaccinated.
The vaccinated are not going to blow a hole in the NHS, poorly maybe but less likely to be hospitalised.
Here in the UK the government are taking a less aggressive approach than our EU neighbours. Do the majority of us need to be potentially restricted to look after those that choose not to be socially supportive?
This is all part off the super green pass and these travel restrictions only came In yesterday. People can still obtain the green pass even if they are not vaccinated, but they are required to obtain negative tests every 48 hours."
The test every 48 hours is giving people who can't be vaccinated an alternative, which is the right thing to do, I agree, you can't prevent people who have no choice getting on with their lives too.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm coming at this cold...
But a mask isn't guaranteed protection from covid. And as a 80 yo if she's unvaccinated she's at high risk of needing hospitalisation.
If she got ill and took up a bed, thats an extra cost to society and could effect others that get ill. Especially if hospitals are near maxed out.
So is it right that the law prevents her from doing something that could affect others ?
Not clear cut imo. Especially at older ages where it's more likely you will affect others.
So it's OK to refuse a very elderly lady access to transport? You think it's OK for a woman of that age to be left standing in the street unable to get where she needs to get (home probably to get warm & rest) & you think that's the best opinion??
You still think a government cares about you when they allow this to happen? This shows perfectly the "do as we tell you" mentality tyrants who are forcing this totalitarianism on the public under the guise of public health! "
I'm offering some different angles on this. unvaxxed 80 year olds who uses public puts extra strain on the system. Would you agree ?
Assuming you do, then we can let such people have the freedom to do as they will and have a knock on effect on others. (And that may be fine for you)
Or we say their freedoms stop when they start having an impact on others (eg your right to swing your first stops at my face)
There is a range of options here.
Italy it seems have gone more down the latter route.
Now, I don't know what Italy needs to prove vaccination and if that's easy for her to do. Or how well publicises it is I don't know where she was coming from or going to. And I don't know how consistently the rules being applied are. I'm simply suggesting why there are rules and being applied so.
And in some ways these "tyrannical" power grabs via covid are not as worrying as other things being discussed... I'd argue that covid (and brexit to add to that) are being used as a distraction for other stuff... But that's my cynicism at government coming through in a different way to yours. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Just watched a video where a very elderly woman (roughly late 80s early 90s) in Italy was refused access onto a bus by the police because she didn't have an app on her phone (she didn't own a smartphone) and didn't have any papers, I guess they would have shown her vaccination status. This woman was masked. So what's the issue with allowing her on the bus?
Tell me again, considering the actions of places like Italy, Austria, Denmark, Latvia etc etc, how this push to have everyone vaccinated and constantly carrying proof of it, isn't simply governments capitalising on a pandemic to further their own power over their people? "
Why would the govt possibly want control over an 80 year old woman? |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Thank God we live in England where the government abhors vaccine passports.
We're so free. It's so wonderful.
It'll be even freer and more glorious when they criminalise protest and give themselves the power to overrule the judiciary.
And justice is glorious and served so well with the criminalising of ordinary people holding gatherings and refusal to even investigate when the politicians do it under the same circumstances.
Lady Justice smiles upon beautiful England, so fair and glorious and a shining example of the rule of law."
Spot on
We are living through dangerous times |
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I'd be telling the local bus company the same thing and to deny boarding to my Mother (if she had no proof of vaccine).
The last thing I would want, if she was unvaccinated, is her getting on a bus (public space), catching covid and dying.
Bus company has a duty of care to protect their passengers and the public who intend to use their services.
Public has a responsibility to show evidence they are safe to be conveyed in a public space.
However in this scenario, conductor should have attempted to make alternative arrangements / contact family to advise them of denied boarding. If they did, then great. If it was my mother, I'd expect a phone call from said company explaining the situation so I can handle the situation.
I'd not be impressed if they just left her there. |
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"I'd be telling the local bus company the same thing and to deny boarding to my Mother (if she had no proof of vaccine).
The last thing I would want, if she was unvaccinated, is her getting on a bus (public space), catching covid and dying.
Bus company has a duty of care to protect their passengers and the public who intend to use their services.
Public has a responsibility to show evidence they are safe to be conveyed in a public space.
However in this scenario, conductor should have attempted to make alternative arrangements / contact family to advise them of denied boarding. If they did, then great. If it was my mother, I'd expect a phone call from said company explaining the situation so I can handle the situation.
I'd not be impressed if they just left her there."
Yup.
And everyone needs to obey the law. If the law says you present document, you present the document. (Yes yes Papiere bitte, I know, how awful  ) |
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"Thank God we live in England where the government abhors vaccine passports.
We're so free. It's so wonderful.
It'll be even freer and more glorious when they criminalise protest and give themselves the power to overrule the judiciary.
And justice is glorious and served so well with the criminalising of ordinary people holding gatherings and refusal to even investigate when the politicians do it under the same circumstances.
Lady Justice smiles upon beautiful England, so fair and glorious and a shining example of the rule of law.
I don't think we've agreed on anything but this. Absolutely this
I'm not anti Vax or pro Vax. I'm pro choice. Do what you think is best for yourself.
But I'm deadset against vaccine passports as I don't trust governments not to abuse the power
In the same way they are trying to slowly outlaw the right to protest
"
Exact same boat, but as soon as you mention you’re against passports the almighty crowd jump down your neck.
Big fuss was made when passports were brought into use in Scotland. Now it’s been shown they’re pointless as you need a neg test regardless.
This should have been the only thing brought in for large events etc |
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By *sGivesWoodWoman
over a year ago
ST. AUSTELL, CORNWALL |
"Can anyone post a link (or title) to Google to see this?
Maybe it's on Facebook.......
None of my usual anti vaxxers on Facebook have posted it yet and constantly post stuff all day every day."
That's because fb are taking down those posts. |
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By *e CapCouple
over a year ago
Basingstoke |
Imagine going to club , in London, and your precious phone with the Good Citizen permit runs out of battery or you loose it. And is middle of January and you are in that sexy dress with nothing underneath…and taxi driver and underground staff are asking you…passport please 
Now imagine same scenario but being in Toronto or Chicago or Moscow …and the taxi driver saying I believe you but rules are for everyone and by not allowing you in my car I am actually saving your life… |
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"Can anyone post a link (or title) to Google to see this?
Maybe it's on Facebook.......
None of my usual anti vaxxers on Facebook have posted it yet and constantly post stuff all day every day.
That's because fb are taking down those posts. "
Really ? I get spammed with them constantly. At best Facebook have a Covid message attached if someone mentions Covid |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Can anyone post a link (or title) to Google to see this?"
Unfortunately the video is on Twitter, I'm not sure if I can link to there or not 
Essentially, the lady was already on the bus and the police went on when it pulled up and removed her from the bus because she didn't have a smartphone with a pass app on it and didn't have her papers with her.
If anyone has Twitter then searching "Italy elderly lady" or a variant of should bring the video up.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Can anyone post a link (or title) to Google to see this?
Unfortunately the video is on Twitter, I'm not sure if I can link to there or not
Essentially, the lady was already on the bus and the police went on when it pulled up and removed her from the bus because she didn't have a smartphone with a pass app on it and didn't have her papers with her.
If anyone has Twitter then searching "Italy elderly lady" or a variant of should bring the video up.
"
https://youtu.be/GxlwjuT0bxQ |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Just watched a video where a very elderly woman (roughly late 80s early 90s) in Italy was refused access onto a bus by the police because she didn't have an app on her phone (she didn't own a smartphone) and didn't have any papers, I guess they would have shown her vaccination status. This woman was masked. So what's the issue with allowing her on the bus?
Tell me again, considering the actions of places like Italy, Austria, Denmark, Latvia etc etc, how this push to have everyone vaccinated and constantly carrying proof of it, isn't simply governments capitalising on a pandemic to further their own power over their people? "
Anyone who thinks vaccine passports and mandatory vaccines are not coming to the UK is just plain crazy and living in cuckoo land.
First its night clubs and cinemas...then its supermarkets etc.
Then comes buying fuel for your car with a vaccine passport.
People have been saying it for months as its been happening in Australia, Canada, France, Austria, Germany and coming soon to the UK...
Say goodbye to freedom..... |
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By *iger4uWoman
over a year ago
In my happy place |
"Thank God we live in England where the government abhors vaccine passports.
We're so free. It's so wonderful.
It'll be even freer and more glorious when they criminalise protest and give themselves the power to overrule the judiciary.
And justice is glorious and served so well with the criminalising of ordinary people holding gatherings and refusal to even investigate when the politicians do it under the same circumstances.
Lady Justice smiles upon beautiful England, so fair and glorious and a shining example of the rule of law."
Oh how the world changes in 2 days... |
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"Thank God we live in England where the government abhors vaccine passports.
We're so free. It's so wonderful.
It'll be even freer and more glorious when they criminalise protest and give themselves the power to overrule the judiciary.
And justice is glorious and served so well with the criminalising of ordinary people holding gatherings and refusal to even investigate when the politicians do it under the same circumstances.
Lady Justice smiles upon beautiful England, so fair and glorious and a shining example of the rule of law.
I don't think we've agreed on anything but this. Absolutely this
I'm not anti Vax or pro Vax. I'm pro choice. Do what you think is best for yourself.
But I'm deadset against vaccine passports as I don't trust governments not to abuse the power
In the same way they are trying to slowly outlaw the right to protest
Unfortunately I was being sarcastic "
I know, I was agreeing with your sarcasm
Thanks for reminding me to trust my instincts and not talk to people like you in the future, your pomposity is incredible
'I was being sarcastic' as if that was impossible to see |
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