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Can the nhs cope with less staff?
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By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago
From the land of haribos. |
I read an article that they could lose tens of thousands of staff, which then could lead to reduced or delayed services, it comes after an government analysis has predicted 73000 nhs workers and 35000 care workers will not have had their jab by the 1st april, what are your view on it? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I read an article that they could lose tens of thousands of staff, which then could lead to reduced or delayed services, it comes after an government analysis has predicted 73000 nhs workers and 35000 care workers will not have had their jab by the 1st april, what are your view on it?"
Mandatory vaccination is always wrong.
It's as dumb in the NHS as it was in care.
That said, the NHS has been (generally speaking) crap and infot for purpose for well over a decade and reduced/delayed services have already been commonplace. |
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"I read an article that they could lose tens of thousands of staff, which then could lead to reduced or delayed services, it comes after an government analysis has predicted 73000 nhs workers and 35000 care workers will not have had their jab by the 1st april, what are your view on it?"
The NHS are already short of staff, but that 73000 is only about 5% of the current 1.4 million NHS workers. |
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By *hilloutMan
over a year ago
All over the place! Northwesr, , Southwest |
I find it ironic seeing people who were happily clapping for nhs frontline workers last year now support some of them losing their job because they have legitimate concerns re the injection. |
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Personally I don’t care about someone else’s vaccination status, I’d feel better knowing they were doing regular testing than just had a vaccine.
They can’t be easily replaced, people (depending on where you live) already moaning about service they receive, it will only get worse if they go ahead with this. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Evey service carrys a shortfall EG, nhs, soc services, care homes, police, you name it.
Nothing new and throwing more money at it which is often wasted is not the way forward.
I've worked in several public sectors and they change things for the sake of change and keep them in very well paid jobs. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I find it ironic seeing people who were happily clapping for nhs frontline workers last year now support some of them losing their job because they have legitimate concerns re the injection. "
always same praise them then its fuck them no big pay. Rise and want to assault them with jabs that some don't want i bet boris ony pretended to get his
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The NHS can't cope with the number of staff they have now, losing more will only push it further to the edge. Just another step in the Tory agenda to privatise healthcare |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The NHS can't cope with the number of staff they have now, losing more will only push it further to the edge. Just another step in the Tory agenda to privatise healthcare"
FYI I am no fan of any of these political parties
To be clea rit was the labour jokers in 2014 that kicked of chatter about privatising parts of the nhs.
to me, all three main polical lot are the same IE in it for themselves |
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"Can the NHS cope with less staff?"
No, of course it can't. And that's the plan. In October 2019 MP's in the House of Commons voted NOT to protect the NHS from "foreign investment" i.e. being sold off. And that's exactly what's happening to it. Hull Eye Hospital in E Yorks has already gone and there are countless other bitesize chunks being auctioned off slowly, slowly with NO media coverage so you are all still glad you clapped on a Thurs night.
All planned. And those that do the planning make a tidy profit. And you all dig deeper...
Don't believe me? Ask your MP. |
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By *adetMan
over a year ago
South of Ipswich |
I can only speak for the hospital I used to work in and it was not under staffed. It was just over staffed in all the wrong places, utterly crippled by bureaucracy and people using the hospital like it was a hotel |
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"It'll be tolerated by people saying stupid stuff like
The NHS are already short staffed
Or
It's only 5%
Etc
Or Boris's promise to spend money to fix the problem, which never happens"
If my leg was on fire, and I was screaming in pain, and a politician pointed at me and shouted 'your leg is on fire' i would immediately doubt that my leg was actually on fire |
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By *rFunBoyMan
over a year ago
Longridge |
Getting the jab is NOT mandatory.
I've had both mine and the booster next week as have all the people I know who work for the NHS.
It's a simple choice, get the jab or move off the front line. No one is pinning anyone to the floor and making them have it.
Medical exemptions are allowed.
In WW1, you either went over the top to get shot or shot in the back for refusing.
Is a jab really so bad to protect others? |
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By *hilloutMan
over a year ago
All over the place! Northwesr, , Southwest |
"I can only speak for the hospital I used to work in and it was not under staffed. It was just over staffed in all the wrong places, utterly crippled by bureaucracy and people using the hospital like it was a hotel "
I locumed in numerous NHS trusts in England, Scotland and Wales. A common trait among them was the ridiculous amount of managers at every level. Very wasteful, expensive and unnecessary. |
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"mRNA vaccine development is likely to lead to vaccine for HIV, will people here still be making the same comments when it's available considering the lifestyle choice of this site?"
It's got incredible potential for a lot of different things. I heard a discussion on the adenoviral vectors and what they were doing with them pre pandemic too.
The whole pandemic shows what we can achieve when we prioritise it and get our shit together |
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By *rFunBoyMan
over a year ago
Longridge |
It would be a travesty to all those lost if it were the case, although the technology is fairly recent and was a 'last resort' option I guess.
But yes, it could have been used and proven elsewhere prior to COVID.
Don't see protests outside schools when HPV and Flu jabs are being dished out within them. |
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"It would be a travesty to all those lost if it were the case, although the technology is fairly recent and was a 'last resort' option I guess.
But yes, it could have been used and proven elsewhere prior to COVID.
Don't see protests outside schools when HPV and Flu jabs are being dished out within them."
I know there has been upset over HPV vaccines - but I fear that that segment of society has become more radicalised. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I find it ironic seeing people who were happily clapping for nhs frontline workers last year now support some of them losing their job because they have legitimate concerns re the injection. "
Exactly.  Absolute shambles.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Hospitals are already understaffed and over capacity. Some hospitals in our area can go up to a 24 hour wait in a and e at present. If hospitals lose staff they won't cope end of."
Aye, it never used to be this bad, i remember a decade or so ago, a&e would be an hour tops.
Tories for ya.
Labour looked after the NHS. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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""Can the NHS cope with less staff?"
No, of course it can't. And that's the plan. In October 2019 MP's in the House of Commons voted NOT to protect the NHS from "foreign investment" i.e. being sold off. And that's exactly what's happening to it. Hull Eye Hospital in E Yorks has already gone and there are countless other bitesize chunks being auctioned off slowly, slowly with NO media coverage so you are all still glad you clapped on a Thurs night.
All planned. And those that do the planning make a tidy profit. And you all dig deeper...
Don't believe me? Ask your MP. "
Precisely. It's sad. Political parties obey who ever pays them or lobbies them to do so.
Thats why they're all millionaires, got shares in certain companies, certain pharmaceutical companies too 
They get rich at our expense. |
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The NHS and its staff have been suffering since 2010, so there's no surprise. Job vacancies have been extremely high during these recent years, with Brexit making things much worse. Any crocodile tears from Brexit implementers are just smoke screens too. The other crocodile tears and smokescreens are from those who have repeatedly spread scaremongering, smears and lies about the vaccines and pretending to be surrounded when thousands of people were influenced.
It's been standard practice for years for NHS staff to be required to be vaccinated against infections. It's part of the employment contract.
Ultimately, you're seeing the conservative government doing what they want to do and you have to make your mind up about the atrocious losses incurred by their management of this. Hand wringing etc does not change who are the servants of the public - your other actions do.
We should have done much more to outlaw the distribution of dangerous BS about the vaccines. Your life and the wellbeing of millions has been impacted. |
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"I read an article that they could lose tens of thousands of staff, which then could lead to reduced or delayed services, it comes after an government analysis has predicted 73000 nhs workers and 35000 care workers will not have had their jab by the 1st april, what are your view on it?"
Reduced or delayed service... Fuck me have you tried to see a Dr or get an outpatient appointment in the last 12 months? |
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By *andKBCouple
over a year ago
Plymouth |
"Hospitals are already understaffed and over capacity. Some hospitals in our area can go up to a 24 hour wait in a and e at present. If hospitals lose staff they won't cope end of.
Aye, it never used to be this bad, i remember a decade or so ago, a&e would be an hour tops.
Tories for ya.
Labour looked after the NHS. "
It's never been that short here in the south west! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Hospitals are already understaffed and over capacity. Some hospitals in our area can go up to a 24 hour wait in a and e at present. If hospitals lose staff they won't cope end of.
Aye, it never used to be this bad, i remember a decade or so ago, a&e would be an hour tops.
Tories for ya.
Labour looked after the NHS.
It's never been that short here in the south west!"
Or here. Complete nonsense.
It's been several hours wait for decades. |
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By *andKBCouple
over a year ago
Plymouth |
"Hospitals are already understaffed and over capacity. Some hospitals in our area can go up to a 24 hour wait in a and e at present. If hospitals lose staff they won't cope end of.
Aye, it never used to be this bad, i remember a decade or so ago, a&e would be an hour tops.
Tories for ya.
Labour looked after the NHS.
It's never been that short here in the south west!
Or here. Complete nonsense.
It's been several hours wait for decades."
Tbf in a Devon and Cornwall we don't have enough services because due to tourism second home owners, people retiring down here to live the figures are scewed hugely.
Cornwall had 1 hospital to service approx 75% of it |
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"Hospitals are already understaffed and over capacity. Some hospitals in our area can go up to a 24 hour wait in a and e at present. If hospitals lose staff they won't cope end of.
Aye, it never used to be this bad, i remember a decade or so ago, a&e would be an hour tops.
Tories for ya.
Labour looked after the NHS. "
Remind me who the party was that saw the largest increase of PFI into the NHS and the wider public sector?
Tony and Gordon spent like d*unken sailors.
Fact is the NHS isn't fit for purpose we could use any one of several other models that work, but until the public stop treating it like a national religion that is blasphemous to critique it won't be changed. |
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By *andKBCouple
over a year ago
Plymouth |
"Hospitals are already understaffed and over capacity. Some hospitals in our area can go up to a 24 hour wait in a and e at present. If hospitals lose staff they won't cope end of.
Aye, it never used to be this bad, i remember a decade or so ago, a&e would be an hour tops.
Tories for ya.
Labour looked after the NHS.
Remind me who the party was that saw the largest increase of PFI into the NHS and the wider public sector?
Tony and Gordon spent like d*unken sailors.
Fact is the NHS isn't fit for purpose we could use any one of several other models that work, but until the public stop treating it like a national religion that is blasphemous to critique it won't be changed. "
The Norway system is good everyone over the age of 16 has to financially contribute no matter their status |
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The government needs to publish its workings in how the determine mandatory vaccination is essential. We now know vaccinated people can still catch and transmit Covid. We need to know the stats around the relative danger posed by unvaccinated staff over vaccinated. Right now I would like NHS and care workers to get vaccinated but to mandate it and then loose workers seems likely to do more harm than good. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Wow  well I'll be damned, for the first time the majority of people I agree with on the virus forum. So many opinions here that I'm on the same page with. I feel a bit emotional, I often feel a bit alone in this section! |
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"The NHS can't cope with the number of staff they have now, losing more will only push it further to the edge. Just another step in the Tory agenda to privatise healthcare Well said. "
Might I remind you it was a labour gov that oversaw the disastrous PPI privatisation project |
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"The NHS can't cope with the number of staff they have now, losing more will only push it further to the edge. Just another step in the Tory agenda to privatise healthcare Well said. "
The greatest amount of privatisation of the NHS came under which government? Give you a clue wasn't conservatives.
For the record I am Switzerland when it comes to political parties. I believe strongly we need to get away from the two party system but until we stop seeing one as good one as bad we can't have a debate about it. |
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"Hospitals are already understaffed and over capacity. Some hospitals in our area can go up to a 24 hour wait in a and e at present. If hospitals lose staff they won't cope end of.
Aye, it never used to be this bad, i remember a decade or so ago, a&e would be an hour tops.
Tories for ya.
Labour looked after the NHS.
Remind me who the party was that saw the largest increase of PFI into the NHS and the wider public sector?
Tony and Gordon spent like d*unken sailors.
Fact is the NHS isn't fit for purpose we could use any one of several other models that work, but until the public stop treating it like a national religion that is blasphemous to critique it won't be changed. "
Wise words |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I’m a pro vaxer and everyone in my department has been jabbed however I’m also pro choice and don’t think any vaccines should be compulsory. I only know of one nurse in my trust that’s refused vaccine but I’m sure there are plenty more and we can’t afford to lose staff. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I’m a pro vaxer and everyone in my department has been jabbed however I’m also pro choice and don’t think any vaccines should be compulsory. I only know of one nurse in my trust that’s refused vaccine but I’m sure there are plenty more and we can’t afford to lose staff. "
It has been estimated that around 40,000 frontline patient facing staff have not been vaccinated and when they announced care home staff needed to be vaccinated a huge number came forward to be vaxxed. I'm assuming the government are hoping the same will happen with NHS staff. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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the deadline for care homes and the vacine is tomorrow the 11th november ..we are 5 care homes not one member of staff have not had the vaccine even all the homecare are vacinated so no different for us ..
opps no we did have one leave sorry but she was on probation anyway thats out of over 300 staff in all departments.
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It will be interesting to see when push comes to shove who is actually classed as front line, front facing, patient facing and on and on, this must be the easiest one to move the goalposts.
Let's see what happens, evolves and changes.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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You all know that this already exists with Hep B? NHS staff can’t perform “exposure-prone procedures” without Hep B jabs, which is pretty much anyone who uses needles or cannulae etc. so most HCAs, nurses and doctors.
This isn’t any different in principle… |
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It's OK they can ask come and work in the NHS in Scotland, as this announcement is NHS England only.
And its frontline staff not all staff, the same staff that already have to have HepB and other jabs in order to do their job. |
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By *akie32Man
over a year ago
winchester |
The nhs are over staffed, ive recently been in hospital, you couldnt move for managers etc, what they need is more doctors and nurses etc, less people pushing pens, to me this is the main problem |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The nhs are over staffed, ive recently been in hospital, you couldnt move for managers etc, what they need is more doctors and nurses etc, less people pushing pens, to me this is the main problem"
I totally agree with this. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It'll be tolerated by people saying stupid stuff like
The NHS are already short staffed
Or
It's only 5%
Etc
Or Boris's promise to spend money to fix the problem, which never happens"
problem is chucking money at it won't work just leed to more over expensive drugs care it needs completely overhauling stop money hemorrhaging. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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its true the nhs are overstaffed but its the wrong side of the work force its not the nurse's and hands on people that they are over staffed with deffo need more of them
im do work within the nhs when called to do so the paper work side of things is monsterous if they find away to cut that out and make it 100% digital then at a guess i rekon half the admin staff would not be needed ...
i get to see both side when im there.
i can only go by the local hospitals but im pretty sure they are mostly the same |
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"The nhs are over staffed, ive recently been in hospital, you couldnt move for managers etc, what they need is more doctors and nurses etc, less people pushing pens, to me this is the main problem"
And obviously from someone who does not work within healthcare or understands the dynamics of the management within a major hospital.
Less managers, more doctors and nurses is a mantra banged out for years, utter nonsense.
I'm not a manager but a front line medic and its team work, from a porter to a surgeon and everyone else in between.
If you dropped an extra couple of billion into NHS it would make very little difference.
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"The nhs are over staffed, ive recently been in hospital, you couldnt move for managers etc, what they need is more doctors and nurses etc, less people pushing pens, to me this is the main problem
And obviously from someone who does not work within healthcare or understands the dynamics of the management within a major hospital.
Less managers, more doctors and nurses is a mantra banged out for years, utter nonsense.
I'm not a manager but a front line medic and its team work, from a porter to a surgeon and everyone else in between.
If you dropped an extra couple of billion into NHS it would make very little difference.
"
Exactly this. It's so easy for people to criticise from the sidelines. I work for the NHS (partially frontline) and the hours I work are exhausting. Everyone in the NHS is there to support those on the frontline. The numbers of back office staff have reduced massively over the years |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I find it ironic seeing people who were happily clapping for nhs frontline workers last year now support some of them losing their job because they have legitimate concerns re the injection. "
Like the people who’d be in their care would have legitimate concerns about their own safety
But this would be forced up them
Not their choice |
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Anybody heard of working smarter not harder? If everyone working every hour god sends isn't enough, then it's crystal clear it's broken and needs changes. Doing things the same way always has the same outcome. |
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"It'll be tolerated by people saying stupid stuff like
The NHS are already short staffed
Or
It's only 5%
Etc
Or Boris's promise to spend money to fix the problem, which never happens
If my leg was on fire, and I was screaming in pain, and a politician pointed at me and shouted 'your leg is on fire' i would immediately doubt that my leg was actually on fire"
And eventually you'd believe him or lose your leg/life
Not a particularly wise analogy |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"I read an article that they could lose tens of thousands of staff, which then could lead to reduced or delayed services, it comes after an government analysis has predicted 73000 nhs workers and 35000 care workers will not have had their jab by the 1st april, what are your view on it?"
Nope… the 73000 includes those working in the care homes…
The breakdown was 23000 nhs staff, 15000 private staffs taking nhs patients, and 35000 staff in care homes….
Care home staffs already have this mandate in place, nhs staff are due to follow the same mandate as care home staff…
Also… 73k sounds like a large number, but as a percentage it accounts for just over 5% of the total staff in the sectors….. |
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"I can only speak for the hospital I used to work in and it was not under staffed. It was just over staffed in all the wrong places, utterly crippled by bureaucracy and people using the hospital like it was a hotel "
It sounds like so many other businesses fire a manager, then make up two to cover the work he did. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Under the Health & Safety at Work (HSW) Act 1974 and the Control of Substances Hazardous to Health (COSHH) Regulations 2002, employers in the UK have a strict liability to protect the health of their employees and others who may be affected by their undertaking. This includes employees who may reasonably be exposed to contact with biological pathogens as part of their daily work. Under the law of tort, the employer also has a duty of care, and may be subject to litigation if an employee can show that a duty of care was owed, causation, a breach of that duty and subsequent loss or suffering.
So hospitals, care homes, etc don't enforce mandatory vaccinations, could face being shut down or hefty fines. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Care in every form needs a foundation up overhaul.
The GP system is broken , elderly care is broken , I called an ambulance on Saturday and was told I’d have to wait 5 hours min !
The NHS needs to be exempt from petty political point scoring it’s just a distraction from the great work it does.
I was in on Monday and the care was fantastic , it needs a whole new way of thinking |
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In amongst all of the angst ridden hand wringing over our wonderful nhs. I wonder if anyone has ever done an analysis to see... If we keep working the way we work. And if we keep out existing behaviours. And if we keep our current culture and environment. And if we keep out existing funding model. Roughly how many nhs staff we would require to meet whatever "targets" we believe are the correct targets for a western society. And furthermore... Approximately how much that would cost to deliver. And lastly how much extra we would all pay for that service? Then we can have a meaningful debate about.. Do we really want it that much? Are there different ways to fund it? Are there different ways to deliver it?
As it is... Someone who has no idea what the nhs is, (other than its not succeeding) is arguing with others about what the nhs should be. Like any problem.... Where are we? Where do we want to get to? How are we going to get there? |
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"In amongst all of the angst ridden hand wringing over our wonderful nhs. I wonder if anyone has ever done an analysis to see... If we keep working the way we work. And if we keep out existing behaviours. And if we keep our current culture and environment. And if we keep out existing funding model. Roughly how many nhs staff we would require to meet whatever "targets" we believe are the correct targets for a western society. And furthermore... Approximately how much that would cost to deliver. And lastly how much extra we would all pay for that service? Then we can have a meaningful debate about.. Do we really want it that much? Are there different ways to fund it? Are there different ways to deliver it?
As it is... Someone who has no idea what the nhs is, (other than its not succeeding) is arguing with others about what the nhs should be. Like any problem.... Where are we? Where do we want to get to? How are we going to get there? "
Really good questions but you are on a fab forum. Unfortunately, I think you will be waiting a long time to get sensible input from the people who post on here? |
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"In amongst all of the angst ridden hand wringing over our wonderful nhs. I wonder if anyone has ever done an analysis to see... If we keep working the way we work. And if we keep out existing behaviours. And if we keep our current culture and environment. And if we keep out existing funding model. Roughly how many nhs staff we would require to meet whatever "targets" we believe are the correct targets for a western society. And furthermore... Approximately how much that would cost to deliver. And lastly how much extra we would all pay for that service? Then we can have a meaningful debate about.. Do we really want it that much? Are there different ways to fund it? Are there different ways to deliver it?
As it is... Someone who has no idea what the nhs is, (other than its not succeeding) is arguing with others about what the nhs should be. Like any problem.... Where are we? Where do we want to get to? How are we going to get there?
Really good questions but you are on a fab forum. Unfortunately, I think you will be waiting a long time to get sensible input from the people who post on here?"
Can I get a house point and bunk off early though? |
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"In amongst all of the angst ridden hand wringing over our wonderful nhs. I wonder if anyone has ever done an analysis to see... If we keep working the way we work. And if we keep out existing behaviours. And if we keep our current culture and environment. And if we keep out existing funding model. Roughly how many nhs staff we would require to meet whatever "targets" we believe are the correct targets for a western society. And furthermore... Approximately how much that would cost to deliver. And lastly how much extra we would all pay for that service? Then we can have a meaningful debate about.. Do we really want it that much? Are there different ways to fund it? Are there different ways to deliver it?
As it is... Someone who has no idea what the nhs is, (other than its not succeeding) is arguing with others about what the nhs should be. Like any problem.... Where are we? Where do we want to get to? How are we going to get there? "
The only thing we defenitly don't want is the privatisation of NHS
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"In amongst all of the angst ridden hand wringing over our wonderful nhs. I wonder if anyone has ever done an analysis to see... If we keep working the way we work. And if we keep out existing behaviours. And if we keep our current culture and environment. And if we keep out existing funding model. Roughly how many nhs staff we would require to meet whatever "targets" we believe are the correct targets for a western society. And furthermore... Approximately how much that would cost to deliver. And lastly how much extra we would all pay for that service? Then we can have a meaningful debate about.. Do we really want it that much? Are there different ways to fund it? Are there different ways to deliver it?
As it is... Someone who has no idea what the nhs is, (other than its not succeeding) is arguing with others about what the nhs should be. Like any problem.... Where are we? Where do we want to get to? How are we going to get there? "
Outstanding questions and there needs to be a grown up debate on the NHS and the future of it. However a fundamental problem exists in the way of that debate, using terms such as "our" NHS and changing the narrative again around it, it has become inadvertently a national religion, and considered blasphemous to criticize it at all.
If we had that debate we could start with the point if the NHS was so great why has no other country in the world copied it? Norwegian model has been replicated multiple times and normally has better outcomes on key measures. It is not fit for purpose it is overloaded with layers of management, and needs root and branch reform.
However as I said until we get it out of our heads that it is above critique it won't change. If you want an example of this watch for replies to what I've written I am near positive I'll be attacked for what I've written. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I read an article that they could lose tens of thousands of staff, which then could lead to reduced or delayed services, it comes after an government analysis has predicted 73000 nhs workers and 35000 care workers will not have had their jab by the 1st april, what are your view on it?
Reduced or delayed service... Fuck me have you tried to see a Dr or get an outpatient appointment in the last 12 months? "
Speaking personally: Yes.
I just walk-in to see a doctor.
I get my temperature checked is all.
Of course, I could go for phone triage or e-consult.
My “outpatient” care is via video conference with a MDT. It saves me a 70 mile trip.
Much better than attending the clinic…especially as the hospital is the eastern hub for respiratory illness (not really a good place to spend time at during a pandemic). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"In amongst all of the angst ridden hand wringing over our wonderful nhs. I wonder if anyone has ever done an analysis to see... If we keep working the way we work. And if we keep out existing behaviours. And if we keep our current culture and environment. And if we keep out existing funding model. Roughly how many nhs staff we would require to meet whatever "targets" we believe are the correct targets for a western society. And furthermore... Approximately how much that would cost to deliver. And lastly how much extra we would all pay for that service? Then we can have a meaningful debate about.. Do we really want it that much? Are there different ways to fund it? Are there different ways to deliver it?
As it is... Someone who has no idea what the nhs is, (other than its not succeeding) is arguing with others about what the nhs should be. Like any problem.... Where are we? Where do we want to get to? How are we going to get there?
Outstanding questions and there needs to be a grown up debate on the NHS and the future of it. However a fundamental problem exists in the way of that debate, using terms such as "our" NHS and changing the narrative again around it, it has become inadvertently a national religion, and considered blasphemous to criticize it at all.
If we had that debate we could start with the point if the NHS was so great why has no other country in the world copied it? Norwegian model has been replicated multiple times and normally has better outcomes on key measures. It is not fit for purpose it is overloaded with layers of management, and needs root and branch reform.
However as I said until we get it out of our heads that it is above critique it won't change. If you want an example of this watch for replies to what I've written I am near positive I'll be attacked for what I've written. "
There are plenty of models to upgrade to.
The one we are being upgraded to is the USA model.
Just to consider ‘upgrading’ to a model with an in-built $300 billion/yr fraud should tell you what the primary intent is.
The USA healthcare spend is in excess of $2.7 trillion. Their system is at maximum financial budget, nothing left in the wallet. Time to expand. Just as an example: A friend “went private” for treatment for pain. The consult was lengthy by comparison to NHS primary care. Half an hour. £170. Prescription: £25. Meds: £20. Quite cheap. You can multiply that X2 to get near USA cost. The NHS has been a football for politicians of all parties for 30 years.
Politicians, generally, are corrupt. They have no interest in people, just money. |
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"I read an article that they could lose tens of thousands of staff, which then could lead to reduced or delayed services, it comes after an government analysis has predicted 73000 nhs workers and 35000 care workers will not have had their jab by the 1st april, what are your view on it?
Reduced or delayed service... Fuck me have you tried to see a Dr or get an outpatient appointment in the last 12 months?
Speaking personally: Yes.
I just walk-in to see a doctor.
I get my temperature checked is all.
Of course, I could go for phone triage or e-consult.
My “outpatient” care is via video conference with a MDT. It saves me a 70 mile trip.
Much better than attending the clinic…especially as the hospital is the eastern hub for respiratory illness (not really a good place to spend time at during a pandemic)."
Sounds like it works well for you. Good for you. I'm not sure there are very many who can walk in and immediately see a Dr without an appt. |
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"In amongst all of the angst ridden hand wringing over our wonderful nhs. I wonder if anyone has ever done an analysis to see... If we keep working the way we work. And if we keep out existing behaviours. And if we keep our current culture and environment. And if we keep out existing funding model. Roughly how many nhs staff we would require to meet whatever "targets" we believe are the correct targets for a western society. And furthermore... Approximately how much that would cost to deliver. And lastly how much extra we would all pay for that service? Then we can have a meaningful debate about.. Do we really want it that much? Are there different ways to fund it? Are there different ways to deliver it?
As it is... Someone who has no idea what the nhs is, (other than its not succeeding) is arguing with others about what the nhs should be. Like any problem.... Where are we? Where do we want to get to? How are we going to get there?
Outstanding questions and there needs to be a grown up debate on the NHS and the future of it. However a fundamental problem exists in the way of that debate, using terms such as "our" NHS and changing the narrative again around it, it has become inadvertently a national religion, and considered blasphemous to criticize it at all.
If we had that debate we could start with the point if the NHS was so great why has no other country in the world copied it? Norwegian model has been replicated multiple times and normally has better outcomes on key measures. It is not fit for purpose it is overloaded with layers of management, and needs root and branch reform.
However as I said until we get it out of our heads that it is above critique it won't change. If you want an example of this watch for replies to what I've written I am near positive I'll be attacked for what I've written. "
Not from me buddy.
We are trying to cling onto the 1940s and what worked then. Trouble is... For many it's a raison d"etre. It's about 4% of our total work force.. Its an economic lever. Its emotive, its political, its nebulous, so big most of us couldn't write down what it does or tries to do, it touches all our lives and yet we are unable to have a proper discussion about what we want it to be... And how much we are prepared to pay for it. Beyond the delusion that it needs to be "free"....and that "privatisation" is the antichrist.
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By *hilloutMan
over a year ago
All over the place! Northwesr, , Southwest |
"In amongst all of the angst ridden hand wringing over our wonderful nhs. I wonder if anyone has ever done an analysis to see... If we keep working the way we work. And if we keep out existing behaviours. And if we keep our current culture and environment. And if we keep out existing funding model. Roughly how many nhs staff we would require to meet whatever "targets" we believe are the correct targets for a western society. And furthermore... Approximately how much that would cost to deliver. And lastly how much extra we would all pay for that service? Then we can have a meaningful debate about.. Do we really want it that much? Are there different ways to fund it? Are there different ways to deliver it?
As it is... Someone who has no idea what the nhs is, (other than its not succeeding) is arguing with others about what the nhs should be. Like any problem.... Where are we? Where do we want to get to? How are we going to get there?
Outstanding questions and there needs to be a grown up debate on the NHS and the future of it. However a fundamental problem exists in the way of that debate, using terms such as "our" NHS and changing the narrative again around it, it has become inadvertently a national religion, and considered blasphemous to criticize it at all.
If we had that debate we could start with the point if the NHS was so great why has no other country in the world copied it? Norwegian model has been replicated multiple times and normally has better outcomes on key measures. It is not fit for purpose it is overloaded with layers of management, and needs root and branch reform.
However as I said until we get it out of our heads that it is above critique it won't change. If you want an example of this watch for replies to what I've written I am near positive I'll be attacked for what I've written. "
Completely agree with the points you've made. The NHS is sacrosanct and seemingly above serious criticism regarding reform. |
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By *lydeXXXMan
over a year ago
Doncaster |
The NHS is overwhelmed every winter. "Savage" Javid is pulling a fast one here as we all know. Use these NHS staff over the most difficult period of the year then ditch them if they don't tow the line. Then what? Oh the NHS will be short staffed in essential areas potentially becoming overwhelmed in the period it normally starts recovering from the winter period and that would make it easier for more restrictions to be put in place, you know to protect the NHS. The government of course won't accept responsibility for this it will be entirely the fault of "anti vaxers" and the public will fall for it. Divide and conquer tactics.
Why aren't they rolling out antibody tests instead of jab number 3? This question seems to be being avoided in government! I think most staff would happily have an antibody test every 6 months and I think they would find the vast majority of frontline staff would have antibodies. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The NHS is overwhelmed every winter. "Savage" Javid is pulling a fast one here as we all know. Use these NHS staff over the most difficult period of the year then ditch them if they don't tow the line. Then what? Oh the NHS will be short staffed in essential areas potentially becoming overwhelmed in the period it normally starts recovering from the winter period and that would make it easier for more restrictions to be put in place, you know to protect the NHS. The government of course won't accept responsibility for this it will be entirely the fault of "anti vaxers" and the public will fall for it. Divide and conquer tactics.
Why aren't they rolling out antibody tests instead of jab number 3? This question seems to be being avoided in government! I think most staff would happily have an antibody test every 6 months and I think they would find the vast majority of frontline staff would have antibodies. "
Antibodies fade.
The protection time is as short as 12 weeks, or as long as 34 months. Worse: many infected people recover without producing neutralising antibodies, so they will have minimal protection.
By now it is known that permanent protection isn’t going to happen. |
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"The NHS is overwhelmed every winter. "Savage" Javid is pulling a fast one here as we all know. Use these NHS staff over the most difficult period of the year then ditch them if they don't tow the line. Then what? Oh the NHS will be short staffed in essential areas potentially becoming overwhelmed in the period it normally starts recovering from the winter period and that would make it easier for more restrictions to be put in place, you know to protect the NHS. The government of course won't accept responsibility for this it will be entirely the fault of "anti vaxers" and the public will fall for it. Divide and conquer tactics.
Why aren't they rolling out antibody tests instead of jab number 3? This question seems to be being avoided in government! I think most staff would happily have an antibody test every 6 months and I think they would find the vast majority of frontline staff would have antibodies. "
I would have thought antibody testing makes a lot of sense... No antibodies or antibody count too low? .... Go get a booster. Why not use science to help people choose rather than using a crow bar.? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I can only speak for the hospital I used to work in and it was not under staffed. It was just over staffed in all the wrong places, utterly crippled by bureaucracy and people using the hospital like it was a hotel
I locumed in numerous NHS trusts in England, Scotland and Wales. A common trait among them was the ridiculous amount of managers at every level. Very wasteful, expensive and unnecessary."
NHS trusts are separate 'businesses' operating individually. The requirement for the govt to supply health services to the population ended with the health and social care reform act 2012. Now, hospitals are *required* by law to offer all services to any capable organisation. Your GP does not refer your case to a hospital, he/she tells the local CG and they decide if the case is referred, and to which provider. Your hip replacement could go to the local hospital, who could then decide that you will go to a provider a hundred miles away for the op. Or, in my case, I get referred to a hospital 70 miles away for r/therapy. One treatment each day over a 30 day period. 140 X 30 =. It's cheaper to purchase the service there. Previously the service was only 30 miles away.
In case you wondered where this is going................all this needs admin, and lots of it. Fortunately, an ambulance service (patient transport) will provide the transport to/from. Work-out the cost of that. work-out the admin for that. You get *nothing* without admin. As an aside, I should then point-out that *each separate provider then gets access to your health records*, even if only a precis, in order to risk assess your travel.
NHS trusts are separate businesses under the NHS logo. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The NHS is overwhelmed every winter. "Savage" Javid is pulling a fast one here as we all know. Use these NHS staff over the most difficult period of the year then ditch them if they don't tow the line. Then what? Oh the NHS will be short staffed in essential areas potentially becoming overwhelmed in the period it normally starts recovering from the winter period and that would make it easier for more restrictions to be put in place, you know to protect the NHS. The government of course won't accept responsibility for this it will be entirely the fault of "anti vaxers" and the public will fall for it. Divide and conquer tactics.
Why aren't they rolling out antibody tests instead of jab number 3? This question seems to be being avoided in government! I think most staff would happily have an antibody test every 6 months and I think they would find the vast majority of frontline staff would have antibodies.
I would have thought antibody testing makes a lot of sense... No antibodies or antibody count too low? .... Go get a booster. Why not use science to help people choose rather than using a crow bar.? "
Cost. Cheaper to just repeatedly jab people than use the labs for antibody testing.
I know this as I was part of an antibody study. |
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By *1bttmMan
over a year ago
Shoreditch east London |
"I read an article that they could lose tens of thousands of staff, which then could lead to reduced or delayed services, it comes after an government analysis has predicted 73000 nhs workers and 35000 care workers will not have had their jab by the 1st april, what are your view on it?"
What do u think OP? U always start these threads off but never give an opinion. |
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By *amish SMan
over a year ago
Eastleigh |
No matter what politics are involved they all want shot of NHS system and replace it with a modern private system. It is a huge bottomless money pit that leaks money out the far end quicker than is poured in at the top.
Considering now that if you have an accident on the road you could be bleeding out and this week indicated an ambulance could be a long wait as even these emergencies are not immune to the delays. Clearly this indicates the NHS is now well and truly broken.
Problem is good front line staff lead by by spineless and incompetent leaders. |
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"I read an article that they could lose tens of thousands of staff, which then could lead to reduced or delayed services, it comes after an government analysis has predicted 73000 nhs workers and 35000 care workers will not have had their jab by the 1st april, what are your view on it?"
If you dont believe in medical science then you shouldnt be working for the nhs because you are a danger just for that reason alone |
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By *ohnj21Man
over a year ago
Leeds |
"Evey service carrys a shortfall EG, nhs, soc services, care homes, police, you name it.
Nothing new and throwing more money at it which is often wasted is not the way forward.
I've worked in several public sectors and they change things for the sake of change and keep them in very well paid jobs."
I agree that's my observation as well |
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"I read an article that they could lose tens of thousands of staff, which then could lead to reduced or delayed services, it comes after an government analysis has predicted 73000 nhs workers and 35000 care workers will not have had their jab by the 1st april, what are your view on it?"
Reduced or delayed service? If it reduces much more it will be non existant. Personal experience... 9 hour wait for an ambulance... 9 hour wait for triage in a and e... 3 week wait to see a gp with a chest infection for a vulnerable asthmatic..... Which ended in a and e... 1.4 millions employees and over 100 billion budget.
The answer is not to keep on doing what we are doing...there's a better way. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Of course they should have the vaccine. The vaccine lowers the spread of COVID and reducing risk of people dying. Proven scientifically. Of course they should be sacked. There is no excuses. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No matter what politics are involved they all want shot of NHS system and replace it with a modern private system. It is a huge bottomless money pit that leaks money out the far end quicker than is poured in at the top.
Considering now that if you have an accident on the road you could be bleeding out and this week indicated an ambulance could be a long wait as even these emergencies are not immune to the delays. Clearly this indicates the NHS is now well and truly broken.
Problem is good front line staff lead by by spineless and incompetent leaders. "
$300 billion annual healthcare fraud.
USA healthcare system.
That is the system we will move to when the new health systems are imposed soon. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Interesting
Some of the same people in this thread that are all for lockdowns and mandated vaccinations, suddenly blame Brexit and a conspiracy theory about the conservatives organising this to sell off the NHS Instead of it being an outcome of mandatory vaccination |
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"I read an article that they could lose tens of thousands of staff, which then could lead to reduced or delayed services, it comes after an government analysis has predicted 73000 nhs workers and 35000 care workers will not have had their jab by the 1st april, what are your view on it?"
Given that the NHS is 100,000 people shorth at the moment then business will probably continue as normal, unless pinch points occur.
So OP, what's your opinion? |
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I sent an e-mail to Mr Javid about it, all I got was an automated reply and a generic link Gov.uk, he only replies to Bromsgrove constituents, Funny I thought the Health Secretary is responsible for the whole of the UK.
The Gov. don't really care as long as they are getting money off you.
It's a rip off. |
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What if the vaccine is a placebo. They've been relying on herd immunity from the start. Over 40,000 dead and rising.
You can still spread the virus even if vaccinated. PPE and cleanliness is the best prevention.
The Gov. have their agenda on healthcare.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I sent an e-mail to Mr Javid about it, all I got was an automated reply and a generic link Gov.uk, he only replies to Bromsgrove constituents, Funny I thought the Health Secretary is responsible for the whole of the UK.
The Gov. don't really care as long as they are getting money off you.
It's a rip off."
There are over 65m in this country like someone has time to reply to random emails |
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
PDI 12-26th Nov 24 |
"What if the vaccine is a placebo. They've been relying on herd immunity from the start. Over 40,000 dead and rising.
You can still spread the virus even if vaccinated. PPE and cleanliness is the best prevention.
The Gov. have their agenda on healthcare.
"
You mean taking a bath in borax wasn't really necessary then !!! Shock horror ...
#sarcasm don't try it lol |
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By *akie32Man
over a year ago
winchester |
the other problem is that medicine gets better, meaning we all live longer, needing more care, this wont change, the nhs was started when people didnt really live aslong, so needed less care, not sure what the answer is, maybe a mix of personal helth care and nhs would help the burden, problem is weve got used to free at piont of use care, when i lived in the usa i had to pay for health insurance, and the care was miles better, but my god it cost alot |
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"the other problem is that medicine gets better, meaning we all live longer, needing more care, this wont change, the nhs was started when people didnt really live aslong, so needed less care, not sure what the answer is, maybe a mix of personal helth care and nhs would help the burden, problem is weve got used to free at piont of use care, when i lived in the usa i had to pay for health insurance, and the care was miles better, but my god it cost alot"
And yet we are happy to pay 2k a year to run a car, service, mot, tyres, happy to pay house insurance, pet insurance, holiday insurance, legal bill insurance etc... but for some reason.. The most important thing... We baulk at investing anything in our own health and wellbeing... |
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By *BWarksCouple
over a year ago
warwick |
Mrs B works for nhs and found out the consultation which was done to find out what staff thought about forcing nhs staff to have covid vaccines came out at 67% against…….. what’s the point in doing a consultation if you ignore the results |
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"I sent an e-mail to Mr Javid about it, all I got was an automated reply and a generic link Gov.uk, he only replies to Bromsgrove constituents, Funny I thought the Health Secretary is responsible for the whole of the UK.
The Gov. don't really care as long as they are getting money off you.
It's a rip off."
Not really each MP has a constituency they represent. Secretary of state is them taking on additional responsibility, but their accountability is to the cabinet.
If you wish a question asked for Bedford your MP is Mohammad Yasin (Lab) send him an email and ask him to ask the secretary of state. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I sent an e-mail to Mr Javid about it, all I got was an automated reply and a generic link Gov.uk, he only replies to Bromsgrove constituents, Funny I thought the Health Secretary is responsible for the whole of the UK.
The Gov. don't really care as long as they are getting money off you.
It's a rip off.
Not really each MP has a constituency they represent. Secretary of state is them taking on additional responsibility, but their accountability is to the cabinet.
If you wish a question asked for Bedford your MP is Mohammad Yasin (Lab) send him an email and ask him to ask the secretary of state. "
I think a lot of them are more accountable to their second jobs that pay £5k a day for a reason... |
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"Getting the jab is NOT mandatory.
I've had both mine and the booster next week as have all the people I know who work for the NHS.
It's a simple choice, get the jab or move off the front line. No one is pinning anyone to the floor and making them have it.
Medical exemptions are allowed.
In WW1, you either went over the top to get shot or shot in the back for refusing.
Is a jab really so bad to protect others?"
It is mandatory. If you do not get vaccinated by 1st April 22 then you lose your job. How is that not mandatory.
Being forced to have it to keep your job is ridiculous.
That shit statement about "get the vaccine and stop the spread" is absolute trollop.
You do not stop the spread, you can still catch it, you can still spread at no difference in strength.
The difference in having the vaccine is that you may not get as ill to need hospitalisation.
It is not a choice when you are forced to get it to do the job you love.
What other sectors will they bring it into, in every single job you deal with public or other people.
Xx Kitten xx |
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"Getting the jab is NOT mandatory.
I've had both mine and the booster next week as have all the people I know who work for the NHS.
It's a simple choice, get the jab or move off the front line. No one is pinning anyone to the floor and making them have it.
Medical exemptions are allowed.
In WW1, you either went over the top to get shot or shot in the back for refusing.
Is a jab really so bad to protect others?
It is mandatory. If you do not get vaccinated by 1st April 22 then you lose your job. How is that not mandatory.
Being forced to have it to keep your job is ridiculous.
That shit statement about "get the vaccine and stop the spread" is absolute trollop.
You do not stop the spread, you can still catch it, you can still spread at no difference in strength.
The difference in having the vaccine is that you may not get as ill to need hospitalisation.
It is not a choice when you are forced to get it to do the job you love.
What other sectors will they bring it into, in every single job you deal with public or other people.
Xx Kitten xx"
The vaccine reduces the chance of both catching and spreading the disease. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Mrs B works for nhs and found out the consultation which was done to find out what staff thought about forcing nhs staff to have covid vaccines came out at 67% against…….. what’s the point in doing a consultation if you ignore the results "
Consultations are not a referendum. These are done to plan for the impact. I for one am glad they are mandatory. How can you work in health and not trust the science that you do day in day out? |
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By *alcon43Woman
over a year ago
Paisley |
If staff are dismissed wards will close if minimum staffing standards cannot be met.
Patients are tested every 3 days and I’m quite sure staff are tested regularly as well. What’s the point of vaccinating those who don’t want it or can’t have it if they are regularly tested?
I only got the vaccine so I could go to events. I was against getting it but was forced to get the covid passport. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If staff are dismissed wards will close if minimum staffing standards cannot be met.
Patients are tested every 3 days and I’m quite sure staff are tested regularly as well. What’s the point of vaccinating those who don’t want it or can’t have it if they are regularly tested?
I only got the vaccine so I could go to events. I was against getting it but was forced to get the covid passport. "
Since it was inevitable that some staff would refuse vaccination (same as for the ‘compulsory’ hepB vaccine) you should shift attention to the the govt insisting they be vaccinated.
Let me see… £30 billion each year to private providers of services (healthcare and other services), expanded 100% in 5 years. Below inflation pay increases. Alteration of staff pension leading to many chosing early retirement. Now compulsory vaccination.
Almost as if they had a badly-hidden motive. Oh, and many govt lords and ministers having close financial ties to private healthcare.
What we really need is a return to pre-NHS times. The average life expectancy was 62. Oh, wait..
Disclaimer:
I’ve had all the current vaccines. Covid/flu. Also had several vaccines out-of-licence.
I also don’t read shit websites that spout conspiracy junk. |
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By *lex D.Man
over a year ago
London |
"I read an article that they could lose tens of thousands of staff, which then could lead to reduced or delayed services, it comes after an government analysis has predicted 73000 nhs workers and 35000 care workers will not have had their jab by the 1st april, what are your view on it?"
That this tory government is not the party of the NHS, nor of the people's priorities.
They simply cannot be trusted to be efficiently corrupt. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I read an article that they could lose tens of thousands of staff, which then could lead to reduced or delayed services, it comes after an government analysis has predicted 73000 nhs workers and 35000 care workers will not have had their jab by the 1st april, what are your view on it?
Reduced or delayed service... Fuck me have you tried to see a Dr or get an outpatient appointment in the last 12 months?
Speaking personally: Yes.
I just walk-in to see a doctor.
I get my temperature checked is all.
Of course, I could go for phone triage or e-consult.
My “outpatient” care is via video conference with a MDT. It saves me a 70 mile trip.
Much better than attending the clinic…especially as the hospital is the eastern hub for respiratory illness (not really a good place to spend time at during a pandemic).
Sounds like it works well for you. Good for you. I'm not sure there are very many who can walk in and immediately see a Dr without an appt. "
It’s called an ‘NHS walk-in clinic’.
It is the reason I picked that practice.
But then my town has an ‘urgent-care-clinic’ attached to the hospital. And a ‘GP-led clinic’ within the hospital. People need to move to any model of care they can access. Practically all net-available GP practices have a form of e-consult.
As an aside: I was mailed today by the practice. They have hired a security company to attend during practice hours because of violence to staff and clinicians. NHSE ordered GPs’ to move to remote access, not the doctors. |
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"It'll be tolerated by people saying stupid stuff like
The NHS are already short staffed
Or
It's only 5%
Etc
Or Boris's promise to spend money to fix the problem, which never happens"
Or the “we promise to recruit 50,000 new nurses”
even though 30,000 of them already were working at the NHS already
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"Getting the jab is NOT mandatory.
I've had both mine and the booster next week as have all the people I know who work for the NHS.
It's a simple choice, get the jab or move off the front line. No one is pinning anyone to the floor and making them have it.
Medical exemptions are allowed.
In WW1, you either went over the top to get shot or shot in the back for refusing.
Is a jab really so bad to protect others?"
Ask the individuals that have had savvier side effects, pointless trying to speak to poor people who died from it!
There’s an argument for both sides |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I don’t get health care workers who don’t want to be / won’t be vaccinated.
When I started my nursing degree it was mandatory that all my vaccinations were up to date and we had a hepatitis B vaccination shot, for our protection and protection of patients.
So why is being vaccinated to work with the vulnerable such a controversy?
For me it’s like wearing a hard hat on a building site. If you don’t want to wear it you can’t be on site, simple. Same principle for the vaccine.
You don’t have to take it, but you can’t work in healthcare.
Sorry I don’t normally post in this part of the forums, but had an old work colleague moaning on Facebook how she’s being forced to leave her 16 year career in care work because she doesn’t want to get vaccinated… |
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/local-news/coventry-care-home-close-due-22272683.amp
First of many….
A reminder, testing worked fine. It’s the patients that will suffer. |
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"I don’t get health care workers who don’t want to be / won’t be vaccinated.
When I started my nursing degree it was mandatory that all my vaccinations were up to date and we had a hepatitis B vaccination shot, for our protection and protection of patients.
So why is being vaccinated to work with the vulnerable such a controversy?
For me it’s like wearing a hard hat on a building site. If you don’t want to wear it you can’t be on site, simple. Same principle for the vaccine.
You don’t have to take it, but you can’t work in healthcare.
Sorry I don’t normally post in this part of the forums, but had an old work colleague moaning on Facebook how she’s being forced to leave her 16 year career in care work because she doesn’t want to get vaccinated…"
When it’s mandated for jobs not related to the vulnerable, you’ll realise.
And it’s controversial because testing works fine, and a lack of staff causes huge problems. Can’t believe I had to explain that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don’t get health care workers who don’t want to be / won’t be vaccinated.
When I started my nursing degree it was mandatory that all my vaccinations were up to date and we had a hepatitis B vaccination shot, for our protection and protection of patients.
So why is being vaccinated to work with the vulnerable such a controversy?
For me it’s like wearing a hard hat on a building site. If you don’t want to wear it you can’t be on site, simple. Same principle for the vaccine.
You don’t have to take it, but you can’t work in healthcare.
Sorry I don’t normally post in this part of the forums, but had an old work colleague moaning on Facebook how she’s being forced to leave her 16 year career in care work because she doesn’t want to get vaccinated…
When it’s mandated for jobs not related to the vulnerable, you’ll realise.
And it’s controversial because testing works fine, and a lack of staff causes huge problems. Can’t believe I had to explain that."
I get lack of staff sucks ass, I really do, believe me on that. Scrapping the NHS bursary all but killed off student nurse intake (thank god it’s back! They could announce it a bit more though to attract more students!) and the whole is suffering from that plus Covid stuff and pre existing shortages.
Testing works fine sure, but a belt and braces approach of testing AND vaccination is surely better still. Keeps more health care staff in their positions, avoiding stressing the system more.
I’m talking about people in contact with the vulnerable being vaccinated.
If your not in a job where you come into contact with vulnerable people then it’s your choice, I agree. I was more wondering why it was controversial for those that do come into contact with the vulnerable.
It… it just doesn’t make sense to me. People do health care work to aid the sick and needy, not to put them in harms way. |
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It would help if we had a better idea of what success looks like for the nhs... Right now it's an almost mythical entity of everything to everyone. That's not achievable and not even reasonable. It does OK at some things, very well in moments at others and pretty badly in some things too...
The energy, time, effort and money it puts onto preventing patient Contact is astounding.
My opinion, it would be better to try and do less things excellently than try and do everything moderately or poorly. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
I get lack of staff sucks ass, I really do, believe me on that. Scrapping the NHS bursary all but killed off student nurse intake (thank god it’s back! They could announce it a bit more though to attract more students!) and the whole is suffering from that plus Covid stuff and pre existing shortages.
Testing works fine sure, but a belt and braces approach of testing AND vaccination is surely better still. Keeps more health care staff in their positions, avoiding stressing the system more.
I’m talking about people in contact with the vulnerable being vaccinated.
If your not in a job where you come into contact with vulnerable people then it’s your choice, I agree. I was more wondering why it was controversial for those that do come into contact with the vulnerable.
It… it just doesn’t make sense to me. People do health care work to aid the sick and needy, not to put them in harms way."
It isn't back. The name is back.
The previous bursary was worth up to £16,454 a year, and always included a minimum of £10,000 – which included paying student fees.
The new bursary means all students now get a £5000 a year maintenance grant, regardless of their circumstances.
Any Nurses planning to work in areas with severe shortages, such as mental health or learning disabilities, also have access to a further £1000 grant. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It would help if we had a better idea of what success looks like for the nhs... Right now it's an almost mythical entity of everything to everyone. That's not achievable and not even reasonable. It does OK at some things, very well in moments at others and pretty badly in some things too...
The energy, time, effort and money it puts onto preventing patient Contact is astounding.
My opinion, it would be better to try and do less things excellently than try and do everything moderately or poorly. "
Preventing patient contact?
I assume you are referring to GPs'?
The same people who were told by the govt to limit patient contact?
I can phone my GP, or go to the walk-in clinic, or go the econsult route.
It would be a help if people looked at how the system has been altered since 2012. Hospitals are now effectively separate businesses. Every visit you make, they send a bill for to the local clinical commissioning group. Your GP no longer refers you to a hospital, the local CCG receive his recommendation for your treatment and *they* refer you to a "service provider", most times.
Every NHS hospital can now source up to 49% of its funding from paying patients. You can 'jump the queue' at rate of £6K for joint replacement. Cataract replacement is £3K per eye (waiting time is shorter if you pay, lots shorter).
It is hardly surprising that once a hospital sources treatment outside, and its teams are disbanded, the price they are quoted increases.
It is clear that many people are unaware of the Health and social care reform act of 2012. Still less are they aware of the health and care bill winding its way through the halls of power |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
I get lack of staff sucks ass, I really do, believe me on that. Scrapping the NHS bursary all but killed off student nurse intake (thank god it’s back! They could announce it a bit more though to attract more students!) and the whole is suffering from that plus Covid stuff and pre existing shortages.
Testing works fine sure, but a belt and braces approach of testing AND vaccination is surely better still. Keeps more health care staff in their positions, avoiding stressing the system more.
I’m talking about people in contact with the vulnerable being vaccinated.
If your not in a job where you come into contact with vulnerable people then it’s your choice, I agree. I was more wondering why it was controversial for those that do come into contact with the vulnerable.
It… it just doesn’t make sense to me. People do health care work to aid the sick and needy, not to put them in harms way.
It isn't back. The name is back.
The previous bursary was worth up to £16,454 a year, and always included a minimum of £10,000 – which included paying student fees.
The new bursary means all students now get a £5000 a year maintenance grant, regardless of their circumstances.
Any Nurses planning to work in areas with severe shortages, such as mental health or learning disabilities, also have access to a further £1000 grant."
That’s fair comment I guess. I didn’t know the figures they’d come out with just that they’d reintroduced it.
£6000 a year really is a joke.
It’s over a whole £10k less than I was getting, and I know I still had to have a part time job and claim a student loan to make ends meet!
On top of that brexit rules make it stupid hard to get foreign nursing staff to work over here!!!
I’m not turning this into a Brexit debate, but I did go on and look at the criteria. I don’t know of a single staff nurse that fits the criteria set out to work within the UK. In fact I dare say senior staff nurses would probably struggle too. |
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