FabSwingers.com > Forums > Virus > Double vaccinated can still spread virus at home
Double vaccinated can still spread virus at home
Jump to: Newest in thread
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I’m double vaccinated, caught covid from a work colleague whose also double vaccination and I’ve never felt so unwell. I was seriously scared and I’m very fit and well generally. I’d dread to think what the unvaccinated version would feel like "You'd probably fair better...or not. Impossible to say from the outset. If the doctors and scientists who have sounded the alarm regarding antibody dependant enhancement as correct, your case might be typical. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I’m double vaccinated, caught covid from a work colleague whose also double vaccination and I’ve never felt so unwell. I was seriously scared and I’m very fit and well generally. I’d dread to think what the unvaccinated version would feel like "It varies from person to person Some become seriously ill where others have little to no symptoms A person unvaccinated may not necessarily become seriously ill | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I’m double vaccinated, caught covid from a work colleague whose also double vaccination and I’ve never felt so unwell. I was seriously scared and I’m very fit and well generally. I’d dread to think what the unvaccinated version would feel like "I completely get what you mean, I'm double jabbed, thankfully, cos if what I've had for the last week was only mild, then it would've been NASTY without the jab | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I’m double vaccinated, caught covid from a work colleague whose also double vaccination and I’ve never felt so unwell. I was seriously scared and I’m very fit and well generally. I’d dread to think what the unvaccinated version would feel like
I completely get what you mean, I'm double jabbed, thankfully, cos if what I've had for the last week was only mild, then it would've been NASTY without the jab"Speculative at best | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I’m double vaccinated, caught covid from a work colleague whose also double vaccination and I’ve never felt so unwell. I was seriously scared and I’m very fit and well generally. I’d dread to think what the unvaccinated version would feel like
I completely get what you mean, I'm double jabbed, thankfully, cos if what I've had for the last week was only mild, then it would've been NASTY without the jab
Speculative at best "The odds are stacked that way. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'm not sure another thread of take the vax / don't take the vax is needed. But I think the flaky, ever changing, sometimes dishonest and certainly disingenuous messaging and communications has led many people to believe the double jab protects them from infection and that it lasts forever. Imagine giving a woman an iud that became 50 % effective after 6 months and not telling the lady she needed to take other precautions as it doesn't provide 100 % protection.? " Except they were never "advertised" by the scientific community as preventing infection. They were designed and tested to reduce serious illness from COVID, at which the vaccines are very successful. The original papers published, upon which worldwide approvals were _ased, has a hypothesis that states "the vaccine will prevent serious disease/hospitalisation" not "will entirely prevent infection". | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'm not sure another thread of take the vax / don't take the vax is needed. But I think the flaky, ever changing, sometimes dishonest and certainly disingenuous messaging and communications has led many people to believe the double jab protects them from infection and that it lasts forever. Imagine giving a woman an iud that became 50 % effective after 6 months and not telling the lady she needed to take other precautions as it doesn't provide 100 % protection.? Except they were never "advertised" by the scientific community as preventing infection. They were designed and tested to reduce serious illness from COVID, at which the vaccines are very successful. The original papers published, upon which worldwide approvals were _ased, has a hypothesis that states "the vaccine will prevent serious disease/hospitalisation" not "will entirely prevent infection"."  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This story just popped up on my newsfeed from the beeb... Of you're interested have a read. It's interesting in as much as it just shows although in these fora things mostly seem to be black or white... Stupid or sensible... Selfish or caring etc... Just goes to show that reality is shades of gray .. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59077036 One of the interesting stats are if you're double jabbed and in a house "the chance of them transmitting the virus to other unvaccinated housemates is about two in five, or 38%. This drops to one in four, or 25%, if housemates are also fully vaccinated." Doesn't provide any further granularity by age group or sex but good to see some numbers. " Where’s the grey? Having the vaccine protects you and it protects others, and the figures above back up the second part of that statement. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"In summary, Vaccination reduces the risk of infection and accelerates viral clearance. Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts. Which affirms a lot of beliefs. Vaccinated people are as contagious at the peak, but may become less contageous quicker. However if you are living with someone the chances are you will with them during that peak stage so as likely to catch it. " And therein lies a major problem - a significant chunk of double vaxxed people have now dropped all other risk mitigations (encouraged by the Govt’s virtual abdication of responsibility) and are walking around like they are indestructible. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'm not sure another thread of take the vax / don't take the vax is needed. But I think the flaky, ever changing, sometimes dishonest and certainly disingenuous messaging and communications has led many people to believe the double jab protects them from infection and that it lasts forever. Imagine giving a woman an iud that became 50 % effective after 6 months and not telling the lady she needed to take other precautions as it doesn't provide 100 % protection.? Except they were never "advertised" by the scientific community as preventing infection. They were designed and tested to reduce serious illness from COVID, at which the vaccines are very successful. The original papers published, upon which worldwide approvals were _ased, has a hypothesis that states "the vaccine will prevent serious disease/hospitalisation" not "will entirely prevent infection"." Exactly | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'm not sure another thread of take the vax / don't take the vax is needed. But I think the flaky, ever changing, sometimes dishonest and certainly disingenuous messaging and communications has led many people to believe the double jab protects them from infection and that it lasts forever. Imagine giving a woman an iud that became 50 % effective after 6 months and not telling the lady she needed to take other precautions as it doesn't provide 100 % protection.? Except they were never "advertised" by the scientific community as preventing infection. They were designed and tested to reduce serious illness from COVID, at which the vaccines are very successful. The original papers published, upon which worldwide approvals were _ased, has a hypothesis that states "the vaccine will prevent serious disease/hospitalisation" not "will entirely prevent infection"." Your comment is wasted on so many people. It's amazing that large numbers of people don't realise it's impossible to say exactly how effective the vacccine is until there is enough data to study various scenarios. So many experts out there who just dont do science.... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I always thought it only lessened the symptoms, nothing more? Not more goal post changing!" Having the vaccine only means that if you do get Covid then you won’t have it as bad as you might have if you didn’t have the vaccine. You can still get it, carry it & pass it on. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Can anyone explain ADE?(antibody dependant enhancement) Any guarantees this won't happen?" There was a paper on the subject when vaccines were in early trials - suggesting that it could be a risk not accounted for for the trial participants. There's been no actual evidence of it happening in the billions of doses now administered against Covid. Doesn't mean it won't happen, but at this point it's exceedingly unlikely. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Unfortunately covid is being spread by the vaccinated with their full immunisation shedding or leaking out of them and when around others vaccinated or not it doesn't matter the vaccinated have been injected with something (I won't refer to it as a bio-weapon) to spread to others whether vaccinated or not this isn't going to go away any time soon even if everyone stopped getting injected tomorrow the damage has been done and is out there getting spread as we speak. Why can't people just want to stay human?" Why are people not human? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So have vaccines been produced in the past that have gone onto cause ADE in those vaccinated?" Yes. In dengue fever. There's zero *actual* evidence that this occurs in Covid vaccines. Remembering that *billions* of doses have now been administered. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Can anyone explain ADE?(antibody dependant enhancement) Any guarantees this won't happen?" There are no guarantees in this life except 1 and that’s everything dies eventually | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So have vaccines been produced in the past that have gone onto cause ADE in those vaccinated?" The key words are in the past | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So have vaccines been produced in the past that have gone onto cause ADE in those vaccinated? The key words are in the past "The signal would have been picked up by now. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Unfortunately covid is being spread by the vaccinated with their full immunisation shedding or leaking out of them and when around others vaccinated or not it doesn't matter the vaccinated have been injected with something (I won't refer to it as a bio-weapon) to spread to others whether vaccinated or not this isn't going to go away any time soon even if everyone stopped getting injected tomorrow the damage has been done and is out there getting spread as we speak. Why can't people just want to stay human?" Could you just explain better what you're trying to say, if it's anything different to the report that vaccinated humans may still be infected and that people they live with may also get infected? People don't shed their vaccines to infect others, it's virus shedding BTW | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Unfortunately covid is being spread by the vaccinated with their full immunisation shedding or leaking out of them and when around others vaccinated or not it doesn't matter the vaccinated have been injected with something (I won't refer to it as a bio-weapon) to spread to others whether vaccinated or not this isn't going to go away any time soon even if everyone stopped getting injected tomorrow the damage has been done and is out there getting spread as we speak. Why can't people just want to stay human? Could you just explain better what you're trying to say, if it's anything different to the report that vaccinated humans may still be infected and that people they live with may also get infected? People don't shed their vaccines to infect others, it's virus shedding BTW " Should have referred to them as 'humans', to emphasise beyond all reasonable doubt that the vaccinated are still human  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I’m double vaccinated, caught covid from a work colleague whose also double vaccination and I’ve never felt so unwell. I was seriously scared and I’m very fit and well generally. I’d dread to think what the unvaccinated version would feel like "The unvaccinated will be fine. What you’re experiencing is ADE. Expect it to get far worse as your immune system gets obliterated. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I’m double vaccinated, caught covid from a work colleague whose also double vaccination and I’ve never felt so unwell. I was seriously scared and I’m very fit and well generally. I’d dread to think what the unvaccinated version would feel like
The unvaccinated will be fine. What you’re experiencing is ADE. Expect it to get far worse as your immune system gets obliterated."That's utter bollocks  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I’m double vaccinated, caught covid from a work colleague whose also double vaccination and I’ve never felt so unwell. I was seriously scared and I’m very fit and well generally. I’d dread to think what the unvaccinated version would feel like
The unvaccinated will be fine. What you’re experiencing is ADE. Expect it to get far worse as your immune system gets obliterated."There's a big difference between the success of the vaccine being overstated or miscommunicated and what you just said which is dangerous | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I’m double vaccinated, caught covid from a work colleague whose also double vaccination and I’ve never felt so unwell. I was seriously scared and I’m very fit and well generally. I’d dread to think what the unvaccinated version would feel like
The unvaccinated will be fine. What you’re experiencing is ADE. Expect it to get far worse as your immune system gets obliterated."the vaccine surveillance suggests otherwise ... But hey, ho. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I’m double vaccinated, caught covid from a work colleague whose also double vaccination and I’ve never felt so unwell. I was seriously scared and I’m very fit and well generally. I’d dread to think what the unvaccinated version would feel like
The unvaccinated will be fine. What you’re experiencing is ADE. Expect it to get far worse as your immune system gets obliterated."Care to expand on what seems like BS? If you've done a medical examination, it should be 100% confidential. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'm not sure another thread of take the vax / don't take the vax is needed. But I think the flaky, ever changing, sometimes dishonest and certainly disingenuous messaging and communications has led many people to believe the double jab protects them from infection and that it lasts forever. Imagine giving a woman an iud that became 50 % effective after 6 months and not telling the lady she needed to take other precautions as it doesn't provide 100 % protection.? " If anyone was left with that impression then frankly it is their own fault they are so misinformed. The scientific and medical community literally never told the public 2 vaccines would be a 'fix-all forever' solution. Just as they never told us you could have one Flu jab and it would work forever. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'm not sure another thread of take the vax / don't take the vax is needed. But I think the flaky, ever changing, sometimes dishonest and certainly disingenuous messaging and communications has led many people to believe the double jab protects them from infection and that it lasts forever. Imagine giving a woman an iud that became 50 % effective after 6 months and not telling the lady she needed to take other precautions as it doesn't provide 100 % protection.? If anyone was left with that impression then frankly it is their own fault they are so misinformed. The scientific and medical community literally never told the public 2 vaccines would be a 'fix-all forever' solution. Just as they never told us you could have one Flu jab and it would work forever." The measurements were against hospitalisation and death - and they're still excellent. This study still shows some protection against infection/transmission, but it's a bonus not what was promised. I recently heard - nowhere good enough to say it's officially a source - that there was breakthrough measles and polio until enough people were vaccinated. It's still relatively early days. The vaccines are helpful, they're not forcefields. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I’m double vaccinated, caught covid from a work colleague whose also double vaccination and I’ve never felt so unwell. I was seriously scared and I’m very fit and well generally. I’d dread to think what the unvaccinated version would feel like
The unvaccinated will be fine. What you’re experiencing is ADE. Expect it to get far worse as your immune system gets obliterated.
That's utter bollocks "Not according to the latest pre-print in The Lancet. I won’t post here cos the mods only like pro-jab links to appease the brainwashed masses | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I’m double vaccinated, caught covid from a work colleague whose also double vaccination and I’ve never felt so unwell. I was seriously scared and I’m very fit and well generally. I’d dread to think what the unvaccinated version would feel like
The unvaccinated will be fine. What you’re experiencing is ADE. Expect it to get far worse as your immune system gets obliterated.
That's utter bollocks
Not according to the latest pre-print in The Lancet. I won’t post here cos the mods only like pro-jab links to appease the brainwashed masses "I will correct that for you...Mods only allow links that are approved by Admin and are mentioned in the forum rules | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I’m double vaccinated, caught covid from a work colleague whose also double vaccination and I’ve never felt so unwell. I was seriously scared and I’m very fit and well generally. I’d dread to think what the unvaccinated version would feel like
I completely get what you mean, I'm double jabbed, thankfully, cos if what I've had for the last week was only mild, then it would've been NASTY without the jab"How would you know omit would have been nasty? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I’m double vaccinated, caught covid from a work colleague whose also double vaccination and I’ve never felt so unwell. I was seriously scared and I’m very fit and well generally. I’d dread to think what the unvaccinated version would feel like
The unvaccinated will be fine. What you’re experiencing is ADE. Expect it to get far worse as your immune system gets obliterated.
That's utter bollocks
Not according to the latest pre-print in The Lancet. I won’t post here cos the mods only like pro-jab links to appease the brainwashed masses "And there’s more to come, John Hopkins are going to a proper study on natural immunity, seen as most other organisations have never bothered and think that jabbing is our only answer (it maybe true) but I would like to know that all angles are covered. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"John Hopkins . " Johns Hopkins. Get it right  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" The unvaccinated will be fine. What you’re experiencing is ADE. Expect it to get far worse as your immune system gets obliterated." Utter gibberish. Clearly not an immunologist. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I’m double vaccinated, caught covid from a work colleague whose also double vaccination and I’ve never felt so unwell. I was seriously scared and I’m very fit and well generally. I’d dread to think what the unvaccinated version would feel like
The unvaccinated will be fine. What you’re experiencing is ADE. Expect it to get far worse as your immune system gets obliterated.
That's utter bollocks
Not according to the latest pre-print in The Lancet. I won’t post here cos the mods only like pro-jab links to appease the brainwashed masses "whats the paper title ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'm not sure another thread of take the vax / don't take the vax is needed. But I think the flaky, ever changing, sometimes dishonest and certainly disingenuous messaging and communications has led many people to believe the double jab protects them from infection and that it lasts forever. Imagine giving a woman an iud that became 50 % effective after 6 months and not telling the lady she needed to take other precautions as it doesn't provide 100 % protection.? "  great analogy
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"In summary, Vaccination reduces the risk of infection and accelerates viral clearance. Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts. Which affirms a lot of beliefs. Vaccinated people are as contagious at the peak, but may become less contageous quicker. However if you are living with someone the chances are you will with them during that peak stage so as likely to catch it. And therein lies a major problem - a significant chunk of double vaxxed people have now dropped all other risk mitigations (encouraged by the Govt’s virtual abdication of responsibility) and are walking around like they are indestructible. " . Or as it’s better known as, getting on with normal life. Earning a living, getting an education. If people still want to hide from life after being vaccinated, what exactly are they waiting for ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I always thought it only lessened the symptoms, nothing more? Not more goal post changing!" It reduces the symptoms and also reduces your viral load so it is harder but not impossible to spread it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" And therein lies a major problem - a significant chunk of double vaxxed people have now dropped all other risk mitigations (encouraged by the Govt’s virtual abdication of responsibility) and are walking around like they are indestructible. Exactly this. Let's not forget all evidence is given out from the very same people trying to jab everyone. Not at all suspect. " Research evidence is largely not produced by the government and there aren't restrictions on research evidence that's substantiated being published, if they counter any supposed official narrative etc, verging on conspiracy theories that some claim. The vaccine producers do certainly undertake substantial research, especially in Stage 3 Trials. This is essential to warrant any approvals by the MHRA and equipment governance bodies around the world. They aren't the sole producers of research though, as you know from investigation and evaluation of the published research evidence. Many people are still keeping protective mitigation measures in place, above and beyond being vaccinated. Having a flu vaccine can be a part of this, as anyone getting flu and Covid infections simultaneously, face at substantially higher risks. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Another interesting stat in today’s paper…..you’re 32 times more likely to die from Covid if you’ve not been vaccinated. Glad I didn’t take the risk……I value my life!" You have to catch it first though right? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" And therein lies a major problem - a significant chunk of double vaxxed people have now dropped all other risk mitigations (encouraged by the Govt’s virtual abdication of responsibility) and are walking around like they are indestructible. Exactly this. Let's not forget all evidence is given out from the very same people trying to jab everyone. Not at all suspect. " to be fair I agree that a lot have. I'm triple jabbed and still using a mask pretty much everywhere... I to be fair social distanced in public places long before it was a requirement, the idea of personal space has always been a big thing for me. I have noticed that hand washing seems to have gone out the window for a lot of people too now. .the bonus of this is hand sanitizer and masks are so cheap at the moment | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" And therein lies a major problem - a significant chunk of double vaxxed people have now dropped all other risk mitigations (encouraged by the Govt’s virtual abdication of responsibility) and are walking around like they are indestructible. Exactly this. Let's not forget all evidence is given out from the very same people trying to jab everyone. Not at all suspect. to be fair I agree that a lot have. I'm triple jabbed and still using a mask pretty much everywhere... I to be fair social distanced in public places long before it was a requirement, the idea of personal space has always been a big thing for me. I have noticed that hand washing seems to have gone out the window for a lot of people too now. .the bonus of this is hand sanitizer and masks are so cheap at the moment " Yeah, I snapped up a fair few | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Getting vaccinated it's a personal choice! Being vaccinated doesn't protect other at all! Being vaccinated it's kind of a gamble will it or will it not protect you or possibly even do create you serious illnesses as it's not something that was tested fot at last 5 years before being approved for human use! Being wrongfully informed it just creates panic disagreements and so many other discrimination. Anyone wants to be vaccinated do it but don't try to convince or force others with fake ideology! " Out of curiosity, what is the name of the guideline test that lasts for 5 years? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Another interesting stat in today’s paper…..you’re 32 times more likely to die from Covid if you’ve not been vaccinated. Glad I didn’t take the risk……I value my life!" You might be because you're 55. I assure you kids are not 32x more likely to die of it. Nor does being unvaccinated mean that we don't have immunity. I do, so my chances of dying from a reinfection are so small i can't be bothered to calculate the decimal places required. Meanwhile the evidence is that your immunity doesn't last long so better keep getting jabbed. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This story just popped up on my newsfeed from the beeb... Of you're interested have a read. It's interesting in as much as it just shows although in these fora things mostly seem to be black or white... Stupid or sensible... Selfish or caring etc... Just goes to show that reality is shades of gray .. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59077036 One of the interesting stats are if you're double jabbed and in a house "the chance of them transmitting the virus to other unvaccinated housemates is about two in five, or 38%. This drops to one in four, or 25%, if housemates are also fully vaccinated." Doesn't provide any further granularity by age group or sex but good to see some numbers. " So basically the vaccines aren't very effective but hey, get more vaccines anyway. Genius! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We caught covid from a fully vaccinated family member, myself, lincs and the family all got it. We all self isolated. The kids had a cough, one had a temp for a couple of hours. Us adults got mild symptoms. We dealt with it with extra vitimns to help boost our immune system. Last night less than a week after the self isolation period I went for a 5km run and managed it no worries. Meanwhile the fully vaccinated people in the family all struggled with it and are only getting over it now, the unvaccinated family (us) sailed through it. Everyone has a choice to make and after experiencing it after catching from a source that was vaccinated, I'm glad that I chose the route that we have taken. I'm not anti vax, however I'm anti experimental.... Which this drug still officially is. Good luck all with your choices. " I totally agree. It is experimental. Interestingly the largest sector of the population in the US not to be vaccinated are PHD holders. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We caught covid from a fully vaccinated family member, myself, lincs and the family all got it. We all self isolated. The kids had a cough, one had a temp for a couple of hours. Us adults got mild symptoms. We dealt with it with extra vitimns to help boost our immune system. Last night less than a week after the self isolation period I went for a 5km run and managed it no worries. Meanwhile the fully vaccinated people in the family all struggled with it and are only getting over it now, the unvaccinated family (us) sailed through it. Everyone has a choice to make and after experiencing it after catching from a source that was vaccinated, I'm glad that I chose the route that we have taken. I'm not anti vax, however I'm anti experimental.... Which this drug still officially is. Good luck all with your choices. I totally agree. It is experimental. Interestingly the largest sector of the population in the US not to be vaccinated are PHD holders." Is that a bigger sector than any ethnic group? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This story just popped up on my newsfeed from the beeb... Of you're interested have a read. It's interesting in as much as it just shows although in these fora things mostly seem to be black or white... Stupid or sensible... Selfish or caring etc... Just goes to show that reality is shades of gray .. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59077036 One of the interesting stats are if you're double jabbed and in a house "the chance of them transmitting the virus to other unvaccinated housemates is about two in five, or 38%. This drops to one in four, or 25%, if housemates are also fully vaccinated." Doesn't provide any further granularity by age group or sex but good to see some numbers. So basically the vaccines aren't very effective but hey, get more vaccines anyway. Genius! "You've seen the incredibly low death rates and enjoyed the freedoms since July and yet say they aren't 'very effective'?  . We have restrictions or vaccines as our main tools and the latter have certainly been very effective. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Let us be simple here. The vaccine is not a suit of armour. A vaccinated person's immune system does not stand guard on the surface of their skin preventing the virus from entering. So when a double vaccinated person encounters the virus it can be transfered by physical contact on surfaces or, when it enters their body, they become infectious in themselves. However, their vaccine primed immune system recognises the threat almost immediately and sets about fighting it before the virus gets a foothold. Consequently the severity of the symptoms is limited and the length of time they are infectious is too. If there was almost 100% vaccination we would not need to wear masks or do social distancing as the ill effects of the virus would be limited, like the common cold, and would not justify such measures. Those who are unvaccinated or with compromised immune systems would unfortunately need to continue to take care as the virus will not be eliminated for many years. " Your humble opinion. Sadly even if the population was fully vaxxed we would need to be masked up... Why because you can still get ill and still pass it on. We caught it from a fully vaxxed person, the whole family went down with it and it was the vaxxed people who suffered the most. The unvaccinated members were fine. The vaccine is not everything it has been cracked up to be, it is not the saviour, surely the fact that boosters every six months are needed to maintain this "level" of protection tells you something? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We caught covid from a fully vaccinated family member, myself, lincs and the family all got it. We all self isolated. The kids had a cough, one had a temp for a couple of hours. Us adults got mild symptoms. We dealt with it with extra vitimns to help boost our immune system. Last night less than a week after the self isolation period I went for a 5km run and managed it no worries. Meanwhile the fully vaccinated people in the family all struggled with it and are only getting over it now, the unvaccinated family (us) sailed through it. Everyone has a choice to make and after experiencing it after catching from a source that was vaccinated, I'm glad that I chose the route that we have taken. I'm not anti vax, however I'm anti experimental.... Which this drug still officially is. Good luck all with your choices. I totally agree. It is experimental. Interestingly the largest sector of the population in the US not to be vaccinated are PHD holders. Is that a bigger sector than any ethnic group? " On a law of averages yes. Objective To understand COVID-19 vaccine hesitancy. Methods January 6 through May 31, 2021, 5,121,436 US adults completed an online COVID-19 survey. Weighted data was used to evaluate change in vaccine intent and correlates of May vaccine hesitancy. Results COVID-19 vaccine hesitancy decreased by one-third from January to May, with relatively large decreases among participants with Black, Pacific Islander or Hispanic race/ethnicity and =high school education. In May, independent hesitancy risk factors included younger age, non-Asian race, having a PhD or =high school education, living in a rural county, living in a county with higher 2020 Trump support, lack of worry about COVID-19, working outside the home, never intentionally avoiding contact with others, and no past-year flu vaccine. Differences in hesitancy by race/ethnicity varied by age. Almost half of vaccine hesitant respondents reported fear of side effects and not trusting the COVID-19 vaccine; over one-third reported not trusting the government, not needing the vaccine, and waiting to see if safe. Reasons differed by degree of vaccine intent and by race/ethnicity. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This story just popped up on my newsfeed from the beeb... Of you're interested have a read. It's interesting in as much as it just shows although in these fora things mostly seem to be black or white... Stupid or sensible... Selfish or caring etc... Just goes to show that reality is shades of gray .. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59077036 One of the interesting stats are if you're double jabbed and in a house "the chance of them transmitting the virus to other unvaccinated housemates is about two in five, or 38%. This drops to one in four, or 25%, if housemates are also fully vaccinated." Doesn't provide any further granularity by age group or sex but good to see some numbers. So basically the vaccines aren't very effective but hey, get more vaccines anyway. Genius!
You've seen the incredibly low death rates and enjoyed the freedoms since July and yet say they aren't 'very effective'? . We have restrictions or vaccines as our main tools and the latter have certainly been very effective. "I caught Covid in Feb last year from a friend who was non-symptomatic who had visited China for business. The best way to fight Covid is the natural way - herd immunity. It took me a month to get over the severe symptoms and I was in hospital twice. Nature knows best. Our world is over populated. We can't keep on the way things are. Nature is unfortunately engaging in a cull that was long overdue. The resources on this planet are not infinite. What we will be left with is a much stronger population who respect life more. And yes that's harsh - but that's life. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This story just popped up on my newsfeed from the beeb... Of you're interested have a read. It's interesting in as much as it just shows although in these fora things mostly seem to be black or white... Stupid or sensible... Selfish or caring etc... Just goes to show that reality is shades of gray .. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59077036 One of the interesting stats are if you're double jabbed and in a house "the chance of them transmitting the virus to other unvaccinated housemates is about two in five, or 38%. This drops to one in four, or 25%, if housemates are also fully vaccinated." Doesn't provide any further granularity by age group or sex but good to see some numbers. So basically the vaccines aren't very effective but hey, get more vaccines anyway. Genius!
You've seen the incredibly low death rates and enjoyed the freedoms since July and yet say they aren't 'very effective'? . We have restrictions or vaccines as our main tools and the latter have certainly been very effective.
I caught Covid in Feb last year from a friend who was non-symptomatic who had visited China for business. The best way to fight Covid is the natural way - herd immunity. It took me a month to get over the severe symptoms and I was in hospital twice. Nature knows best. Our world is over populated. We can't keep on the way things are. Nature is unfortunately engaging in a cull that was long overdue. The resources on this planet are not infinite. What we will be left with is a much stronger population who respect life more. And yes that's harsh - but that's life."Shall we abolish the nhs and cease treating all illnesses? Let nature do its thing. Why not go a step further and just put down anyone who is a drain on society..  Left to nature your life expectancy is halved, you are already living beyond your expected natural life... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This story just popped up on my newsfeed from the beeb... Of you're interested have a read. It's interesting in as much as it just shows although in these fora things mostly seem to be black or white... Stupid or sensible... Selfish or caring etc... Just goes to show that reality is shades of gray .. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59077036 One of the interesting stats are if you're double jabbed and in a house "the chance of them transmitting the virus to other unvaccinated housemates is about two in five, or 38%. This drops to one in four, or 25%, if housemates are also fully vaccinated." Doesn't provide any further granularity by age group or sex but good to see some numbers. So basically the vaccines aren't very effective but hey, get more vaccines anyway. Genius!
You've seen the incredibly low death rates and enjoyed the freedoms since July and yet say they aren't 'very effective'? . We have restrictions or vaccines as our main tools and the latter have certainly been very effective.
I caught Covid in Feb last year from a friend who was non-symptomatic who had visited China for business. The best way to fight Covid is the natural way - herd immunity. It took me a month to get over the severe symptoms and I was in hospital twice. Nature knows best. Our world is over populated. We can't keep on the way things are. Nature is unfortunately engaging in a cull that was long overdue. The resources on this planet are not infinite. What we will be left with is a much stronger population who respect life more. And yes that's harsh - but that's life."Very easy to say after the fact
But you also said you were in hospital twice because you did not get vaccinated and so sort of defeating the effectiveness of the vaccine rollout | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This story just popped up on my newsfeed from the beeb... Of you're interested have a read. It's interesting in as much as it just shows although in these fora things mostly seem to be black or white... Stupid or sensible... Selfish or caring etc... Just goes to show that reality is shades of gray .. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59077036 One of the interesting stats are if you're double jabbed and in a house "the chance of them transmitting the virus to other unvaccinated housemates is about two in five, or 38%. This drops to one in four, or 25%, if housemates are also fully vaccinated." Doesn't provide any further granularity by age group or sex but good to see some numbers. So basically the vaccines aren't very effective but hey, get more vaccines anyway. Genius!
You've seen the incredibly low death rates and enjoyed the freedoms since July and yet say they aren't 'very effective'? . We have restrictions or vaccines as our main tools and the latter have certainly been very effective.
I caught Covid in Feb last year from a friend who was non-symptomatic who had visited China for business. The best way to fight Covid is the natural way - herd immunity. It took me a month to get over the severe symptoms and I was in hospital twice. Nature knows best. Our world is over populated. We can't keep on the way things are. Nature is unfortunately engaging in a cull that was long overdue. The resources on this planet are not infinite. What we will be left with is a much stronger population who respect life more. And yes that's harsh - but that's life.
Shall we abolish the nhs and cease treating all illnesses? Let nature do its thing. Why not go a step further and just put down anyone who is a drain on society.. Left to nature your life expectancy is halved, you are already living beyond your expected natural life..."I'd be all in favour of your argument but for the fact the vaccine is clearly not working and lets be honest - neither is the NHS that you seem to applaud so highly. Have you tried seeing your GP lately or even having a telephone consultation? Were you perhaps one of the unfortunates with an elderly family member living in a care home who got infected by the NHS sending Covid sufferers into their residence, knowing full well that they'd infect others? The NHS is not fit for purpose and neither are those at the top making all the decision that you silly little sheep follow. Extended longevity is of value of course, but at what cost? And is the vaccine saving people or actually creating a nation of foolhardy super spreaders? There is a greater impact from Covid than just illness and death. The psychological impact, educational, economic, social...the list is lengthy. We must resume normal life. And we must stop pretending that vaccines work. At best they lessens the symptoms - although how that is measurable since no one knows with any accuracy how bad they may have suffered without had they not had it. No one knows the long term effects of it physiologically. But it is evident that it is giving people a false sense of security. And that's bad. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This story just popped up on my newsfeed from the beeb... Of you're interested have a read. It's interesting in as much as it just shows although in these fora things mostly seem to be black or white... Stupid or sensible... Selfish or caring etc... Just goes to show that reality is shades of gray .. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59077036 One of the interesting stats are if you're double jabbed and in a house "the chance of them transmitting the virus to other unvaccinated housemates is about two in five, or 38%. This drops to one in four, or 25%, if housemates are also fully vaccinated." Doesn't provide any further granularity by age group or sex but good to see some numbers. So basically the vaccines aren't very effective but hey, get more vaccines anyway. Genius!
You've seen the incredibly low death rates and enjoyed the freedoms since July and yet say they aren't 'very effective'? . We have restrictions or vaccines as our main tools and the latter have certainly been very effective.
I caught Covid in Feb last year from a friend who was non-symptomatic who had visited China for business. The best way to fight Covid is the natural way - herd immunity. It took me a month to get over the severe symptoms and I was in hospital twice. Nature knows best. Our world is over populated. We can't keep on the way things are. Nature is unfortunately engaging in a cull that was long overdue. The resources on this planet are not infinite. What we will be left with is a much stronger population who respect life more. And yes that's harsh - but that's life."This argument with nature engaging in a cull that was long overdue is very flawed. So far, in less than two years we have 5 million deaths attibuted to covid worldwide. We are almost 8 billion people. 5 million new births are talking place worldwide in a matter of weeks. In 2015 there were 140 million new births worldwide according to Our world in data. I | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This story just popped up on my newsfeed from the beeb... Of you're interested have a read. It's interesting in as much as it just shows although in these fora things mostly seem to be black or white... Stupid or sensible... Selfish or caring etc... Just goes to show that reality is shades of gray .. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59077036 One of the interesting stats are if you're double jabbed and in a house "the chance of them transmitting the virus to other unvaccinated housemates is about two in five, or 38%. This drops to one in four, or 25%, if housemates are also fully vaccinated." Doesn't provide any further granularity by age group or sex but good to see some numbers. So basically the vaccines aren't very effective but hey, get more vaccines anyway. Genius!
You've seen the incredibly low death rates and enjoyed the freedoms since July and yet say they aren't 'very effective'? . We have restrictions or vaccines as our main tools and the latter have certainly been very effective.
I caught Covid in Feb last year from a friend who was non-symptomatic who had visited China for business. The best way to fight Covid is the natural way - herd immunity. It took me a month to get over the severe symptoms and I was in hospital twice. Nature knows best. Our world is over populated. We can't keep on the way things are. Nature is unfortunately engaging in a cull that was long overdue. The resources on this planet are not infinite. What we will be left with is a much stronger population who respect life more. And yes that's harsh - but that's life.
This argument with nature engaging in a cull that was long overdue is very flawed.
So far, in less than two years we have 5 million deaths attibuted to covid worldwide.
We are almost 8 billion people. 5 million new births are talking place worldwide in a matter of weeks. In 2015 there were 140 million new births worldwide according to Our world in data.
I"Your argument is flawed - you are only taking into account deaths from Covid. It's not natures only weapon. It's just her latest one. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 be wary of saying it’s not fit for purpose as the alternative is private care | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This story just popped up on my newsfeed from the beeb... Of you're interested have a read. It's interesting in as much as it just shows although in these fora things mostly seem to be black or white... Stupid or sensible... Selfish or caring etc... Just goes to show that reality is shades of gray .. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59077036 One of the interesting stats are if you're double jabbed and in a house "the chance of them transmitting the virus to other unvaccinated housemates is about two in five, or 38%. This drops to one in four, or 25%, if housemates are also fully vaccinated." Doesn't provide any further granularity by age group or sex but good to see some numbers. So basically the vaccines aren't very effective but hey, get more vaccines anyway. Genius!
You've seen the incredibly low death rates and enjoyed the freedoms since July and yet say they aren't 'very effective'? . We have restrictions or vaccines as our main tools and the latter have certainly been very effective.
I caught Covid in Feb last year from a friend who was non-symptomatic who had visited China for business. The best way to fight Covid is the natural way - herd immunity. It took me a month to get over the severe symptoms and I was in hospital twice. Nature knows best. Our world is over populated. We can't keep on the way things are. Nature is unfortunately engaging in a cull that was long overdue. The resources on this planet are not infinite. What we will be left with is a much stronger population who respect life more. And yes that's harsh - but that's life.
This argument with nature engaging in a cull that was long overdue is very flawed.
So far, in less than two years we have 5 million deaths attibuted to covid worldwide.
We are almost 8 billion people. 5 million new births are talking place worldwide in a matter of weeks. In 2015 there were 140 million new births worldwide according to Our world in data.
I
Your argument is flawed - you are only taking into account deaths from Covid. It's not natures only weapon. It's just her latest one."In such a case, the cull you mention was never overdue. It is ongoing for decades. Your argument is still flawed. Unless you can tell me when in your opinion this culling by nature has started and how. You got a year in mind? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This story just popped up on my newsfeed from the beeb... Of you're interested have a read. It's interesting in as much as it just shows although in these fora things mostly seem to be black or white... Stupid or sensible... Selfish or caring etc... Just goes to show that reality is shades of gray .. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59077036 One of the interesting stats are if you're double jabbed and in a house "the chance of them transmitting the virus to other unvaccinated housemates is about two in five, or 38%. This drops to one in four, or 25%, if housemates are also fully vaccinated." Doesn't provide any further granularity by age group or sex but good to see some numbers. So basically the vaccines aren't very effective but hey, get more vaccines anyway. Genius!
You've seen the incredibly low death rates and enjoyed the freedoms since July and yet say they aren't 'very effective'? . We have restrictions or vaccines as our main tools and the latter have certainly been very effective.
I caught Covid in Feb last year from a friend who was non-symptomatic who had visited China for business. The best way to fight Covid is the natural way - herd immunity. It took me a month to get over the severe symptoms and I was in hospital twice. Nature knows best. Our world is over populated. We can't keep on the way things are. Nature is unfortunately engaging in a cull that was long overdue. The resources on this planet are not infinite. What we will be left with is a much stronger population who respect life more. And yes that's harsh - but that's life."What was natural about going into hospital twice? Surely by your argument, you shouldn’t have gone into hospital and just fought the virus naturally? Kind of defeats your argument and ridicules your other statement about the NHS being useless as they helped save your life | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"And what was before the NHS ? Charity hospitals for the poor and good treatment for the rich be wary of saying it’s not fit for purpose as the alternative is private care "Many of us are resorting to that in any case. The reason why? The NHS is a shit show. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"And what was before the NHS ? Charity hospitals for the poor and good treatment for the rich be wary of saying it’s not fit for purpose as the alternative is private care Many of us are resorting to that in any case. The reason why? The NHS is a shit show."So we should just throw people who cannot afford it under the bus then ?
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"And what was before the NHS ? Charity hospitals for the poor and good treatment for the rich be wary of saying it’s not fit for purpose as the alternative is private care Many of us are resorting to that in any case. The reason why? The NHS is a shit show."Wondered how long it would take for stones to be thrown at NHS. A few months ago it was clapping in the street, kids making rainbow signs to place in windows, special opening times for NHS in supermarkets. Now, it's a shit show. Unless of course you need surgery and then it's a different story. I've had my eyes opened during this pandemic. Always knew people were a bit 2 faced but didn't realise just how self centred and me, me, me some folks are. Ah well, as the saying goes, nowt stranger than folk, how true but sad it needed a pandemic to rip down the veneer of decency.  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"And what was before the NHS ? Charity hospitals for the poor and good treatment for the rich be wary of saying it’s not fit for purpose as the alternative is private care Many of us are resorting to that in any case. The reason why? The NHS is a shit show.
Wondered how long it would take for stones to be thrown at NHS.
A few months ago it was clapping in the street, kids making rainbow signs to place in windows, special opening times for NHS in supermarkets.
Now, it's a shit show.
"To be fair we clapped for the workers who had to deal with this pandemic rather than the organisation of the NHS | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I caught Covid in Feb last year from a friend who was non-symptomatic who had visited China for business. The best way to fight Covid is the natural way - herd immunity. It took me a month to get over the severe symptoms and I was in hospital twice. Nature knows best." But you got help from the NHS | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You've seen the incredibly low death rates and enjoyed the freedoms since July and yet say they aren't 'very effective'? . We have restrictions or vaccines as our main tools and the latter have certainly been very effective. "If that isn't Stockholm syndrome then I don't know what is. My rights were never negotiable for the government to restrict. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This story just popped up on my newsfeed from the beeb... Of you're interested have a read. It's interesting in as much as it just shows although in these fora things mostly seem to be black or white... Stupid or sensible... Selfish or caring etc... Just goes to show that reality is shades of gray .. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59077036 One of the interesting stats are if you're double jabbed and in a house "the chance of them transmitting the virus to other unvaccinated housemates is about two in five, or 38%. This drops to one in four, or 25%, if housemates are also fully vaccinated." Doesn't provide any further granularity by age group or sex but good to see some numbers. So basically the vaccines aren't very effective but hey, get more vaccines anyway. Genius!
You've seen the incredibly low death rates and enjoyed the freedoms since July and yet say they aren't 'very effective'? . We have restrictions or vaccines as our main tools and the latter have certainly been very effective.
I caught Covid in Feb last year from a friend who was non-symptomatic who had visited China for business. The best way to fight Covid is the natural way - herd immunity. It took me a month to get over the severe symptoms and I was in hospital twice. Nature knows best. Our world is over populated. We can't keep on the way things are. Nature is unfortunately engaging in a cull that was long overdue. The resources on this planet are not infinite. What we will be left with is a much stronger population who respect life more. And yes that's harsh - but that's life.
This argument with nature engaging in a cull that was long overdue is very flawed.
So far, in less than two years we have 5 million deaths attibuted to covid worldwide.
We are almost 8 billion people. 5 million new births are talking place worldwide in a matter of weeks. In 2015 there were 140 million new births worldwide according to Our world in data.
I
Your argument is flawed - you are only taking into account deaths from Covid. It's not natures only weapon. It's just her latest one.
In such a case, the cull you mention was never overdue. It is ongoing for decades. Your argument is still flawed.
Unless you can tell me when in your opinion this culling by nature has started and how. You got a year in mind?"Don't be ridiculous. Nature has always kept life on earth in check. She will continue to do so. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We caught covid from a fully vaccinated family member, myself, lincs and the family all got it. We all self isolated. The kids had a cough, one had a temp for a couple of hours. Us adults got mild symptoms. We dealt with it with extra vitimns to help boost our immune system. Last night less than a week after the self isolation period I went for a 5km run and managed it no worries. Meanwhile the fully vaccinated people in the family all struggled with it and are only getting over it now, the unvaccinated family (us) sailed through it. Everyone has a choice to make and after experiencing it after catching from a source that was vaccinated, I'm glad that I chose the route that we have taken. I'm not anti vax, however I'm anti experimental.... Which this drug still officially is. Good luck all with your choices. I totally agree. It is experimental. Interestingly the largest sector of the population in the US not to be vaccinated are PHD holders." Covid-19 vaccines in the UK are not experimental and have all completed animal and clinical trials. Covid-19 vaccines have not missed trial stages, again meaning they are not experimental. I don't want you to take my word for it, look for reputable sites to source your information not facebook or someone you know that seems to be know what they are talking about. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You've seen the incredibly low death rates and enjoyed the freedoms since July and yet say they aren't 'very effective'? . We have restrictions or vaccines as our main tools and the latter have certainly been very effective.
If that isn't Stockholm syndrome then I don't know what is. My rights were never negotiable for the government to restrict. "No, the government has always restricted your ‘rights’. They do this using something you may have heard of called ‘the law’, which restricts you from doing things that are described as being ‘against the law’. Look it up if you don’t believe me! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I caught Covid in Feb last year from a friend who was non-symptomatic who had visited China for business. The best way to fight Covid is the natural way - herd immunity. It took me a month to get over the severe symptoms and I was in hospital twice. Nature knows best. But you got help from the NHS" Did I? Did I really? I'll tell you what I got. I got sent to A and E full of people with a letter IN my hand from my GP stating that I'd been in close contact with a man just back from a business convention in China with delegates from Wuhan - the known epi center of Covid. The Doctor stated that my chest infection was not responding to antibiotics and suspected it was viral in origin. I'd had two courses and my oxygen levels were very low. She recommended isolation and testing. What did the NHS do? They put me in the A and E waiting room for 8 hours, coughing my guts up. Then they triaged me and then isolated me. Now if that isn't stupid I don't know what is. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You've seen the incredibly low death rates and enjoyed the freedoms since July and yet say they aren't 'very effective'? . We have restrictions or vaccines as our main tools and the latter have certainly been very effective.
If that isn't Stockholm syndrome then I don't know what is. My rights were never negotiable for the government to restrict.
No, the government has always restricted your ‘rights’. They do this using something you may have heard of called ‘the law’, which restricts you from doing things that are described as being ‘against the law’.
Look it up if you don’t believe me! "Errr no, governments cannot pass laws that violate human rights. Go read some history books if you don't believe me. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This story just popped up on my newsfeed from the beeb... Of you're interested have a read. It's interesting in as much as it just shows although in these fora things mostly seem to be black or white... Stupid or sensible... Selfish or caring etc... Just goes to show that reality is shades of gray .. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59077036 One of the interesting stats are if you're double jabbed and in a house "the chance of them transmitting the virus to other unvaccinated housemates is about two in five, or 38%. This drops to one in four, or 25%, if housemates are also fully vaccinated." Doesn't provide any further granularity by age group or sex but good to see some numbers. So basically the vaccines aren't very effective but hey, get more vaccines anyway. Genius!
You've seen the incredibly low death rates and enjoyed the freedoms since July and yet say they aren't 'very effective'? . We have restrictions or vaccines as our main tools and the latter have certainly been very effective.
I caught Covid in Feb last year from a friend who was non-symptomatic who had visited China for business. The best way to fight Covid is the natural way - herd immunity. It took me a month to get over the severe symptoms and I was in hospital twice. Nature knows best. Our world is over populated. We can't keep on the way things are. Nature is unfortunately engaging in a cull that was long overdue. The resources on this planet are not infinite. What we will be left with is a much stronger population who respect life more. And yes that's harsh - but that's life.
This argument with nature engaging in a cull that was long overdue is very flawed.
So far, in less than two years we have 5 million deaths attibuted to covid worldwide.
We are almost 8 billion people. 5 million new births are talking place worldwide in a matter of weeks. In 2015 there were 140 million new births worldwide according to Our world in data.
I
Your argument is flawed - you are only taking into account deaths from Covid. It's not natures only weapon. It's just her latest one.
In such a case, the cull you mention was never overdue. It is ongoing for decades. Your argument is still flawed.
Unless you can tell me when in your opinion this culling by nature has started and how. You got a year in mind?
Don't be ridiculous. Nature has always kept life on earth in check. She will continue to do so. "world population in 1950: 2.5 billion in1970: 3.68 billion in 1990: 5.28 billion in 2010: 6.92 billion in 2020: 7.75 billion Nature seems to do a great culling over the years | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You've seen the incredibly low death rates and enjoyed the freedoms since July and yet say they aren't 'very effective'? . We have restrictions or vaccines as our main tools and the latter have certainly been very effective.
If that isn't Stockholm syndrome then I don't know what is. My rights were never negotiable for the government to restrict.
No, the government has always restricted your ‘rights’. They do this using something you may have heard of called ‘the law’, which restricts you from doing things that are described as being ‘against the law’.
Look it up if you don’t believe me!
Errr no, governments cannot pass laws that violate human rights. Go read some history books if you don't believe me. "which human rights are being violated ? (Tbh ive lost track of how the start of the above led to human rights thing violated. Are you saying lockdown was a violation?) | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I caught Covid in Feb last year from a friend who was non-symptomatic who had visited China for business. The best way to fight Covid is the natural way - herd immunity. It took me a month to get over the severe symptoms and I was in hospital twice. Nature knows best. But you got help from the NHS Did I? Did I really?" Yes You said you were n Hospital twice, once they triaged you did they do nothing to help at all? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"And what was before the NHS ? Charity hospitals for the poor and good treatment for the rich be wary of saying it’s not fit for purpose as the alternative is private care Many of us are resorting to that in any case. The reason why? The NHS is a shit show.
Wondered how long it would take for stones to be thrown at NHS.
A few months ago it was clapping in the street, kids making rainbow signs to place in windows, special opening times for NHS in supermarkets.
Now, it's a shit show.
To be fair we clapped for the workers who had to deal with this pandemic rather than the organisation of the NHS"Yes, but I think you get my drift. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You've seen the incredibly low death rates and enjoyed the freedoms since July and yet say they aren't 'very effective'? . We have restrictions or vaccines as our main tools and the latter have certainly been very effective.
If that isn't Stockholm syndrome then I don't know what is. My rights were never negotiable for the government to restrict.
No, the government has always restricted your ‘rights’. They do this using something you may have heard of called ‘the law’, which restricts you from doing things that are described as being ‘against the law’.
Look it up if you don’t believe me!
Errr no, governments cannot pass laws that violate human rights. Go read some history books if you don't believe me. which human rights are being violated ?
(Tbh ive lost track of how the start of the above led to human rights thing violated. Are you saying lockdown was a violation?)"The first one can be debated, but the second and third clearly were, yes. As you're one of the few people that can locate and read data, you'll be aware that at the end of the 2020, the UK had one of the worst deaths per 1m people and worse impacts on GDP (worst of both worlds). Then as we head to the end of 2021, although 'covid' deaths are down this year, overall deaths have a statistically irrelevant difference to last year. So in summary, a lot of lives were ruined, a lot of money was spent and it achieved fuck all other than making certain types of people feel smug and morally superior. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You've seen the incredibly low death rates and enjoyed the freedoms since July and yet say they aren't 'very effective'? . We have restrictions or vaccines as our main tools and the latter have certainly been very effective.
If that isn't Stockholm syndrome then I don't know what is. My rights were never negotiable for the government to restrict.
No, the government has always restricted your ‘rights’. They do this using something you may have heard of called ‘the law’, which restricts you from doing things that are described as being ‘against the law’.
Look it up if you don’t believe me!
Errr no, governments cannot pass laws that violate human rights. Go read some history books if you don't believe me. "I suggest you start with the Glorious Revolution and the changes that brought to the British constitution. The UK government can pass whatever laws it likes | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"And what was before the NHS ? Charity hospitals for the poor and good treatment for the rich be wary of saying it’s not fit for purpose as the alternative is private care Many of us are resorting to that in any case. The reason why? The NHS is a shit show.
Wondered how long it would take for stones to be thrown at NHS.
A few months ago it was clapping in the street, kids making rainbow signs to place in windows, special opening times for NHS in supermarkets.
Now, it's a shit show.
To be fair we clapped for the workers who had to deal with this pandemic rather than the organisation of the NHS
Yes, but I think you get my drift."I do. Sadly some people think others are turning on the people working for the NHS when mentioning what is going on within it. The NHS seems to be on it's knees before this all started, happily there are some great people who work tirelessly in it, without which we would be in a bigger mess | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You've seen the incredibly low death rates and enjoyed the freedoms since July and yet say they aren't 'very effective'? . We have restrictions or vaccines as our main tools and the latter have certainly been very effective.
If that isn't Stockholm syndrome then I don't know what is. My rights were never negotiable for the government to restrict.
No, the government has always restricted your ‘rights’. They do this using something you may have heard of called ‘the law’, which restricts you from doing things that are described as being ‘against the law’.
Look it up if you don’t believe me!
Errr no, governments cannot pass laws that violate human rights. Go read some history books if you don't believe me. which human rights are being violated ?
(Tbh ive lost track of how the start of the above led to human rights thing violated. Are you saying lockdown was a violation?)
The first one can be debated, but the second and third clearly were, yes. As you're one of the few people that can locate and read data, you'll be aware that at the end of the 2020, the UK had one of the worst deaths per 1m people and worse impacts on GDP (worst of both worlds). Then as we head to the end of 2021, although 'covid' deaths are down this year, overall deaths have a statistically irrelevant difference to last year.
So in summary, a lot of lives were ruined, a lot of money was spent and it achieved fuck all other than making certain types of people feel smug and morally superior. "I'm not sure the human rights violation there. But I agree that we handled this badly. Deaths are down 3pc. Not sure what counts as significant variation. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"And what was before the NHS ? Charity hospitals for the poor and good treatment for the rich be wary of saying it’s not fit for purpose as the alternative is private care Many of us are resorting to that in any case. The reason why? The NHS is a shit show.
Wondered how long it would take for stones to be thrown at NHS.
A few months ago it was clapping in the street, kids making rainbow signs to place in windows, special opening times for NHS in supermarkets.
Now, it's a shit show.
To be fair we clapped for the workers who had to deal with this pandemic rather than the organisation of the NHS
Yes, but I think you get my drift.
I do.
Sadly some people think others are turning on the people working for the NHS when mentioning what is going on within it. The NHS seems to be on it's knees before this all started, happily there are some great people who work tirelessly in it, without which we would be in a bigger mess"A few months ago I had to go to the A&E (not covid related). I walked in. They took very good care of me. I was really impressed. With the follow ups, I was not so impressed but I can understand the strain they are into. I guess people who always thought NHS was shit, see NHS as shit. But the doctors and nurses did whatever was possible and paid a heavy price. It is sad to see people not appreciating the free care they get especially during the pandemic and put the lives of the NHS staff in danger by turning up for free health care unvaccinated. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You've seen the incredibly low death rates and enjoyed the freedoms since July and yet say they aren't 'very effective'? . We have restrictions or vaccines as our main tools and the latter have certainly been very effective.
If that isn't Stockholm syndrome then I don't know what is. My rights were never negotiable for the government to restrict.
No, the government has always restricted your ‘rights’. They do this using something you may have heard of called ‘the law’, which restricts you from doing things that are described as being ‘against the law’.
Look it up if you don’t believe me!
Errr no, governments cannot pass laws that violate human rights. Go read some history books if you don't believe me.
I suggest you start with the Glorious Revolution and the changes that brought to the British constitution. The UK government can pass whatever laws it likes "Please don't make me bring up Hitler. No, it cannot pass whatever law it wants. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You've seen the incredibly low death rates and enjoyed the freedoms since July and yet say they aren't 'very effective'? . We have restrictions or vaccines as our main tools and the latter have certainly been very effective.
If that isn't Stockholm syndrome then I don't know what is. My rights were never negotiable for the government to restrict.
No, the government has always restricted your ‘rights’. They do this using something you may have heard of called ‘the law’, which restricts you from doing things that are described as being ‘against the law’.
Look it up if you don’t believe me!
Errr no, governments cannot pass laws that violate human rights. Go read some history books if you don't believe me. which human rights are being violated ?
(Tbh ive lost track of how the start of the above led to human rights thing violated. Are you saying lockdown was a violation?)
The first one can be debated, but the second and third clearly were, yes. As you're one of the few people that can locate and read data, you'll be aware that at the end of the 2020, the UK had one of the worst deaths per 1m people and worse impacts on GDP (worst of both worlds). Then as we head to the end of 2021, although 'covid' deaths are down this year, overall deaths have a statistically irrelevant difference to last year.
So in summary, a lot of lives were ruined, a lot of money was spent and it achieved fuck all other than making certain types of people feel smug and morally superior. I'm not sure the human rights violation there. But I agree that we handled this badly.
Deaths are down 3pc. Not sure what counts as significant variation. "5pc and the trajectory is going to wrong way, 2021 deaths have been above 2020 deaths for most of the last months. So unless you're expecting a good winter then the end of the year will look almost identical. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You've seen the incredibly low death rates and enjoyed the freedoms since July and yet say they aren't 'very effective'? . We have restrictions or vaccines as our main tools and the latter have certainly been very effective.
If that isn't Stockholm syndrome then I don't know what is. My rights were never negotiable for the government to restrict.
No, the government has always restricted your ‘rights’. They do this using something you may have heard of called ‘the law’, which restricts you from doing things that are described as being ‘against the law’.
Look it up if you don’t believe me!
Errr no, governments cannot pass laws that violate human rights. Go read some history books if you don't believe me.
I suggest you start with the Glorious Revolution and the changes that brought to the British constitution. The UK government can pass whatever laws it likes
Please don't make me bring up Hitler. No, it cannot pass whatever law it wants. "What does Hitler have to do with the centuries old fundamental of the British constitution? The British parliament is sovereign. It can pass whatever law it likes. No need to bring up any dead Austrian. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I caught Covid in Feb last year from a friend who was non-symptomatic who had visited China for business. The best way to fight Covid is the natural way - herd immunity. It took me a month to get over the severe symptoms and I was in hospital twice. Nature knows best. But you got help from the NHS Did I? Did I really? I'll tell you what I got. I got sent to A and E full of people with a letter IN my hand from my GP stating that I'd been in close contact with a man just back from a business convention in China with delegates from Wuhan - the known epi center of Covid. The Doctor stated that my chest infection was not responding to antibiotics and suspected it was viral in origin. I'd had two courses and my oxygen levels were very low. She recommended isolation and testing. What did the NHS do? They put me in the A and E waiting room for 8 hours, coughing my guts up. Then they triaged me and then isolated me. Now if that isn't stupid I don't know what is." If you hate the nhs so much then just maybe don’t go to the hospital next time your sick
Go and see what your private medical will do, oh wait!!! They don’t do A&E  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"And what was before the NHS ? Charity hospitals for the poor and good treatment for the rich be wary of saying it’s not fit for purpose as the alternative is private care Many of us are resorting to that in any case. The reason why? The NHS is a shit show.
Veneer of decency, she says as she posts on a sex site about morals? Lol.
Wondered how long it would take for stones to be thrown at NHS.
A few months ago it was clapping in the street, kids making rainbow signs to place in windows, special opening times for NHS in supermarkets.
Now, it's a shit show.
Unless of course you need surgery and then it's a different story.
I've had my eyes opened during this pandemic.
Always knew people were a bit 2 faced but didn't realise just how self centred and me, me, me some folks are.
Ah well, as the saying goes, nowt stranger than folk, how true but sad it needed a pandemic to rip down the veneer of decency. " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I caught Covid in Feb last year from a friend who was non-symptomatic who had visited China for business. The best way to fight Covid is the natural way - herd immunity. It took me a month to get over the severe symptoms and I was in hospital twice. Nature knows best. But you got help from the NHS Did I? Did I really? I'll tell you what I got. I got sent to A and E full of people with a letter IN my hand from my GP stating that I'd been in close contact with a man just back from a business convention in China with delegates from Wuhan - the known epi center of Covid. The Doctor stated that my chest infection was not responding to antibiotics and suspected it was viral in origin. I'd had two courses and my oxygen levels were very low. She recommended isolation and testing. What did the NHS do? They put me in the A and E waiting room for 8 hours, coughing my guts up. Then they triaged me and then isolated me. Now if that isn't stupid I don't know what is. If you hate the nhs so much then just maybe don’t go to the hospital next time your sick
Go and see what your private medical will do, oh wait!!! They don’t do A&E "They do actually. I've used them since. Was seen within the hour. That's where all your GPs are. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You've seen the incredibly low death rates and enjoyed the freedoms since July and yet say they aren't 'very effective'? . We have restrictions or vaccines as our main tools and the latter have certainly been very effective.
If that isn't Stockholm syndrome then I don't know what is. My rights were never negotiable for the government to restrict.
No, the government has always restricted your ‘rights’. They do this using something you may have heard of called ‘the law’, which restricts you from doing things that are described as being ‘against the law’.
Look it up if you don’t believe me!
Errr no, governments cannot pass laws that violate human rights. Go read some history books if you don't believe me.
I suggest you start with the Glorious Revolution and the changes that brought to the British constitution. The UK government can pass whatever laws it likes
Please don't make me bring up Hitler. No, it cannot pass whatever law it wants.
What does Hitler have to do with the centuries old fundamental of the British constitution?
The British parliament is sovereign. It can pass whatever law it likes.
No need to bring up any dead Austrian."So you don't understand why national governments aren't allowed to pass laws that violate human rights? You sound worryingly comfortable with totalitarianism... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I caught Covid in Feb last year from a friend who was non-symptomatic who had visited China for business. The best way to fight Covid is the natural way - herd immunity. It took me a month to get over the severe symptoms and I was in hospital twice. Nature knows best. But you got help from the NHS Did I? Did I really? I'll tell you what I got. I got sent to A and E full of people with a letter IN my hand from my GP stating that I'd been in close contact with a man just back from a business convention in China with delegates from Wuhan - the known epi center of Covid. The Doctor stated that my chest infection was not responding to antibiotics and suspected it was viral in origin. I'd had two courses and my oxygen levels were very low. She recommended isolation and testing. What did the NHS do? They put me in the A and E waiting room for 8 hours, coughing my guts up. Then they triaged me and then isolated me. Now if that isn't stupid I don't know what is." This would be Feb 2020? The world or the the UK hadn't gone into lockdown and knowledge of the virus was very limited, but you expected your local hospital to be ahead of the curve? You come across in a very poor light | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" You've seen the incredibly low death rates and enjoyed the freedoms since July and yet say they aren't 'very effective'? . We have restrictions or vaccines as our main tools and the latter have certainly been very effective.
If that isn't Stockholm syndrome then I don't know what is. My rights were never negotiable for the government to restrict.
No, the government has always restricted your ‘rights’. They do this using something you may have heard of called ‘the law’, which restricts you from doing things that are described as being ‘against the law’.
Look it up if you don’t believe me!
Errr no, governments cannot pass laws that violate human rights. Go read some history books if you don't believe me.
I suggest you start with the Glorious Revolution and the changes that brought to the British constitution. The UK government can pass whatever laws it likes
Please don't make me bring up Hitler. No, it cannot pass whatever law it wants.
What does Hitler have to do with the centuries old fundamental of the British constitution?
The British parliament is sovereign. It can pass whatever law it likes.
No need to bring up any dead Austrian.
So you don't understand why national governments aren't allowed to pass laws that violate human rights? You sound worryingly comfortable with totalitarianism..."I understand the reality of the British constitution. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it is. The British constitution allows for "queen in parliament" to pass whatever law it chooses. The classical constitutional axiom is "murdering blue eyed babies". The British constitution allows for that. The same classic text goes on to say that British parliament may ban smoking in Parisian streets. It's legally permissible under British law - not that France would pay a blind bit of notice. Just because it's horrific and we should know better, does not change the reality of the mechanics of the British state. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Let us be simple here. The vaccine is not a suit of armour. A vaccinated person's immune system does not stand guard on the surface of their skin preventing the virus from entering. So when a double vaccinated person encounters the virus it can be transfered by physical contact on surfaces or, when it enters their body, they become infectious in themselves. However, their vaccine primed immune system recognises the threat almost immediately and sets about fighting it before the virus gets a foothold. Consequently the severity of the symptoms is limited and the length of time they are infectious is too. If there was almost 100% vaccination we would not need to wear masks or do social distancing as the ill effects of the virus would be limited, like the common cold, and would not justify such measures. Those who are unvaccinated or with compromised immune systems would unfortunately need to continue to take care as the virus will not be eliminated for many years. Your humble opinion. Sadly even if the population was fully vaxxed we would need to be masked up... Why because you can still get ill and still pass it on. We caught it from a fully vaxxed person, the whole family went down with it and it was the vaxxed people who suffered the most. The unvaccinated members were fine. The vaccine is not everything it has been cracked up to be, it is not the saviour, surely the fact that boosters every six months are needed to maintain this "level" of protection tells you something? " Nothing is perfect but for 95% of the population the vaccine is far far better than nothing. The dead will attest to that. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I caught Covid in Feb last year from a friend who was non-symptomatic who had visited China for business. The best way to fight Covid is the natural way - herd immunity. It took me a month to get over the severe symptoms and I was in hospital twice. Nature knows best. But you got help from the NHS Did I? Did I really? I'll tell you what I got. I got sent to A and E full of people with a letter IN my hand from my GP stating that I'd been in close contact with a man just back from a business convention in China with delegates from Wuhan - the known epi center of Covid. The Doctor stated that my chest infection was not responding to antibiotics and suspected it was viral in origin. I'd had two courses and my oxygen levels were very low. She recommended isolation and testing. What did the NHS do? They put me in the A and E waiting room for 8 hours, coughing my guts up. Then they triaged me and then isolated me. Now if that isn't stupid I don't know what is. This would be Feb 2020? The world or the the UK hadn't gone into lockdown and knowledge of the virus was very limited, but you expected your local hospital to be ahead of the curve? You come across in a very poor light " How you view me is of no concern whatsoever. Of course the health authorities knew of Covid. Even then. If I did as an ordinary citizen, they certainly should have, especially when faced with a GP letter outlining concerns I may have Covid and had been in contact with a person travelling from the area. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This story just popped up on my newsfeed from the beeb... Of you're interested have a read. It's interesting in as much as it just shows although in these fora things mostly seem to be black or white... Stupid or sensible... Selfish or caring etc... Just goes to show that reality is shades of gray .. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59077036 One of the interesting stats are if you're double jabbed and in a house "the chance of them transmitting the virus to other unvaccinated housemates is about two in five, or 38%. This drops to one in four, or 25%, if housemates are also fully vaccinated." Doesn't provide any further granularity by age group or sex but good to see some numbers. So basically the vaccines aren't very effective but hey, get more vaccines anyway. Genius!
You've seen the incredibly low death rates and enjoyed the freedoms since July and yet say they aren't 'very effective'? . We have restrictions or vaccines as our main tools and the latter have certainly been very effective.
I caught Covid in Feb last year from a friend who was non-symptomatic who had visited China for business. The best way to fight Covid is the natural way - herd immunity. It took me a month to get over the severe symptoms and I was in hospital twice. Nature knows best. Our world is over populated. We can't keep on the way things are. Nature is unfortunately engaging in a cull that was long overdue. The resources on this planet are not infinite. What we will be left with is a much stronger population who respect life more. And yes that's harsh - but that's life.
What was natural about going into hospital twice? Surely by your argument, you shouldn’t have gone into hospital and just fought the virus naturally? Kind of defeats your argument and ridicules your other statement about the NHS being useless as they helped save your life"I was given four courses of antibiotics and steroids - not effective treatment for Covid. My own GP admitted I fought it off myself naturally. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I understand the reality of the British constitution. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it is. The British constitution allows for "queen in parliament" to pass whatever law it chooses. The classical constitutional axiom is "murdering blue eyed babies". The British constitution allows for that. The same classic text goes on to say that British parliament may ban smoking in Parisian streets. It's legally permissible under British law - not that France would pay a blind bit of notice. Just because it's horrific and we should know better, does not change the reality of the mechanics of the British state." We don't have a constitution, although I'm not going to be obtuse and pretend I don't know what you are referring to when you say that. The point is that it's not the highest possible authority in the world. I'm also aware of the issues enforcing the higher authority but that's not the point. You and i can enter into legally binding contracts with each other. However, neither of us can legally agree to kill each other even if the contract states it and we both agree. Same principle. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I caught Covid in Feb last year from a friend who was non-symptomatic who had visited China for business. The best way to fight Covid is the natural way - herd immunity. It took me a month to get over the severe symptoms and I was in hospital twice. Nature knows best. But you got help from the NHS Did I? Did I really? I'll tell you what I got. I got sent to A and E full of people with a letter IN my hand from my GP stating that I'd been in close contact with a man just back from a business convention in China with delegates from Wuhan - the known epi center of Covid. The Doctor stated that my chest infection was not responding to antibiotics and suspected it was viral in origin. I'd had two courses and my oxygen levels were very low. She recommended isolation and testing. What did the NHS do? They put me in the A and E waiting room for 8 hours, coughing my guts up. Then they triaged me and then isolated me. Now if that isn't stupid I don't know what is. This would be Feb 2020? The world or the the UK hadn't gone into lockdown and knowledge of the virus was very limited, but you expected your local hospital to be ahead of the curve? You come across in a very poor light How you view me is of no concern whatsoever. Of course the health authorities knew of Covid. Even then. If I did as an ordinary citizen, they certainly should have, especially when faced with a GP letter outlining concerns I may have Covid and had been in contact with a person travelling from the area. " You are unreasonable in your expectation of the NHS to deal with a virus the world had little understanding of. You are complaining you suffered from a lack of support from the NHS but are telling others they or you don't need the support being offered by the NHS to prevent the very thing you are complaining about. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I understand the reality of the British constitution. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it is. The British constitution allows for "queen in parliament" to pass whatever law it chooses. The classical constitutional axiom is "murdering blue eyed babies". The British constitution allows for that. The same classic text goes on to say that British parliament may ban smoking in Parisian streets. It's legally permissible under British law - not that France would pay a blind bit of notice. Just because it's horrific and we should know better, does not change the reality of the mechanics of the British state. We don't have a constitution, although I'm not going to be obtuse and pretend I don't know what you are referring to when you say that. The point is that it's not the highest possible authority in the world. I'm also aware of the issues enforcing the higher authority but that's not the point. You and i can enter into legally binding contracts with each other. However, neither of us can legally agree to kill each other even if the contract states it and we both agree. Same principle. " That's a principle upheld by British law, which Queen in Parliament can take away at any time they choose
This government has already shown utter disdain for international law, and is looking to tear up the human rights act. Human rights are also constituted differently in different parts of the world.
To suggest that there is any meaningful accountability beyond the state is naive, and the constitutional* arrangements of the UK allow for absolutely anything it chooses.
* I'm relying upon the expertise of public/administrative academics in saying we have a constitution. The fact it's not centrally codified is, for the purposes of this discussion, irrelevant. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I caught Covid in Feb last year from a friend who was non-symptomatic who had visited China for business. The best way to fight Covid is the natural way - herd immunity. It took me a month to get over the severe symptoms and I was in hospital twice. Nature knows best. But you got help from the NHS Did I? Did I really? I'll tell you what I got. I got sent to A and E full of people with a letter IN my hand from my GP stating that I'd been in close contact with a man just back from a business convention in China with delegates from Wuhan - the known epi center of Covid. The Doctor stated that my chest infection was not responding to antibiotics and suspected it was viral in origin. I'd had two courses and my oxygen levels were very low. She recommended isolation and testing. What did the NHS do? They put me in the A and E waiting room for 8 hours, coughing my guts up. Then they triaged me and then isolated me. Now if that isn't stupid I don't know what is. This would be Feb 2020? The world or the the UK hadn't gone into lockdown and knowledge of the virus was very limited, but you expected your local hospital to be ahead of the curve? You come across in a very poor light How you view me is of no concern whatsoever. Of course the health authorities knew of Covid. Even then. If I did as an ordinary citizen, they certainly should have, especially when faced with a GP letter outlining concerns I may have Covid and had been in contact with a person travelling from the area. You are unreasonable in your expectation of the NHS to deal with a virus the world had little understanding of. You are complaining you suffered from a lack of support from the NHS but are telling others they or you don't need the support being offered by the NHS to prevent the very thing you are complaining about. " Tell that to the fifty or so people in the waiting room forced to sit with me for 8 hrs while I had a Doctors letter stating she was certain I had Covid. Would you have sat beside me? It was on the TV in the waiting room all about Covid. I was sitting right there!! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I understand the reality of the British constitution. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it is. The British constitution allows for "queen in parliament" to pass whatever law it chooses. The classical constitutional axiom is "murdering blue eyed babies". The British constitution allows for that. The same classic text goes on to say that British parliament may ban smoking in Parisian streets. It's legally permissible under British law - not that France would pay a blind bit of notice. Just because it's horrific and we should know better, does not change the reality of the mechanics of the British state. We don't have a constitution, although I'm not going to be obtuse and pretend I don't know what you are referring to when you say that. The point is that it's not the highest possible authority in the world. I'm also aware of the issues enforcing the higher authority but that's not the point. You and i can enter into legally binding contracts with each other. However, neither of us can legally agree to kill each other even if the contract states it and we both agree. Same principle. " Parliament passes acts into law, they do not need to comply with the human rights act. If a court decides an act is conflicting with the human rights act it will pass the act back to parliament who will make a decision to change it or not. You are using contract to highlight the act of law is binding, parliament passes those laws and we are now back at the start of my response. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think everyone needs to realise you can't enforce a vaccine on people that don't want it. Vaccines are normally tested for ten years and for good reason. Covid has exposed some serious cracks in our society. Our health system is flawed, government, economy, infrastructure. I dread to think of the winter ahead. Herd immunity is how this will be suppressed. Not vaccines. And the NHS needs shut down. It is responsible for so many deaths during this entire out break and it is sadly going to continue. They are not your saviours. " Well let’s hope you never need them or the ambulance service,paramedics ect | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I understand the reality of the British constitution. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it is. The British constitution allows for "queen in parliament" to pass whatever law it chooses. The classical constitutional axiom is "murdering blue eyed babies". The British constitution allows for that. The same classic text goes on to say that British parliament may ban smoking in Parisian streets. It's legally permissible under British law - not that France would pay a blind bit of notice. Just because it's horrific and we should know better, does not change the reality of the mechanics of the British state. We don't have a constitution, although I'm not going to be obtuse and pretend I don't know what you are referring to when you say that. The point is that it's not the highest possible authority in the world. I'm also aware of the issues enforcing the higher authority but that's not the point. You and i can enter into legally binding contracts with each other. However, neither of us can legally agree to kill each other even if the contract states it and we both agree. Same principle. Parliament passes acts into law, they do not need to comply with the human rights act. If a court decides an act is conflicting with the human rights act it will pass the act back to parliament who will make a decision to change it or not. You are using contract to highlight the act of law is binding, parliament passes those laws and we are now back at the start of my response. " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I caught Covid in Feb last year from a friend who was non-symptomatic who had visited China for business. The best way to fight Covid is the natural way - herd immunity. It took me a month to get over the severe symptoms and I was in hospital twice. Nature knows best. But you got help from the NHS Did I? Did I really? I'll tell you what I got. I got sent to A and E full of people with a letter IN my hand from my GP stating that I'd been in close contact with a man just back from a business convention in China with delegates from Wuhan - the known epi center of Covid. The Doctor stated that my chest infection was not responding to antibiotics and suspected it was viral in origin. I'd had two courses and my oxygen levels were very low. She recommended isolation and testing. What did the NHS do? They put me in the A and E waiting room for 8 hours, coughing my guts up. Then they triaged me and then isolated me. Now if that isn't stupid I don't know what is. This would be Feb 2020? The world or the the UK hadn't gone into lockdown and knowledge of the virus was very limited, but you expected your local hospital to be ahead of the curve? You come across in a very poor light How you view me is of no concern whatsoever. Of course the health authorities knew of Covid. Even then. If I did as an ordinary citizen, they certainly should have, especially when faced with a GP letter outlining concerns I may have Covid and had been in contact with a person travelling from the area. You are unreasonable in your expectation of the NHS to deal with a virus the world had little understanding of. You are complaining you suffered from a lack of support from the NHS but are telling others they or you don't need the support being offered by the NHS to prevent the very thing you are complaining about. Tell that to the fifty or so people in the waiting room forced to sit with me for 8 hrs while I had a Doctors letter stating she was certain I had Covid. Would you have sat beside me? It was on the TV in the waiting room all about Covid. I was sitting right there!! " It is on TV now to get the vaccine, doctors are no longer sending people to hospital with a letter, they are advising to get vaccinated. Why are you advising against the vaccine and the NHS now they have put the best support they can in place, the very support you complain was not there at the start. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think everyone needs to realise you can't enforce a vaccine on people that don't want it. Vaccines are normally tested for ten years and for good reason. Covid has exposed some serious cracks in our society. Our health system is flawed, government, economy, infrastructure. I dread to think of the winter ahead. Herd immunity is how this will be suppressed. Not vaccines. And the NHS needs shut down. It is responsible for so many deaths during this entire out break and it is sadly going to continue. They are not your saviours. Well let’s hope you never need them or the ambulance service,paramedics ect "You're missing the point entirely...I did. Look how they behaved! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I caught Covid in Feb last year from a friend who was non-symptomatic who had visited China for business. The best way to fight Covid is the natural way - herd immunity. It took me a month to get over the severe symptoms and I was in hospital twice. Nature knows best. But you got help from the NHS Did I? Did I really? I'll tell you what I got. I got sent to A and E full of people with a letter IN my hand from my GP stating that I'd been in close contact with a man just back from a business convention in China with delegates from Wuhan - the known epi center of Covid. The Doctor stated that my chest infection was not responding to antibiotics and suspected it was viral in origin. I'd had two courses and my oxygen levels were very low. She recommended isolation and testing. What did the NHS do? They put me in the A and E waiting room for 8 hours, coughing my guts up. Then they triaged me and then isolated me. Now if that isn't stupid I don't know what is. This would be Feb 2020? The world or the the UK hadn't gone into lockdown and knowledge of the virus was very limited, but you expected your local hospital to be ahead of the curve? You come across in a very poor light How you view me is of no concern whatsoever. Of course the health authorities knew of Covid. Even then. If I did as an ordinary citizen, they certainly should have, especially when faced with a GP letter outlining concerns I may have Covid and had been in contact with a person travelling from the area. You are unreasonable in your expectation of the NHS to deal with a virus the world had little understanding of. You are complaining you suffered from a lack of support from the NHS but are telling others they or you don't need the support being offered by the NHS to prevent the very thing you are complaining about. Tell that to the fifty or so people in the waiting room forced to sit with me for 8 hrs while I had a Doctors letter stating she was certain I had Covid. Would you have sat beside me? It was on the TV in the waiting room all about Covid. I was sitting right there!! It is on TV now to get the vaccine, doctors are no longer sending people to hospital with a letter, they are advising to get vaccinated. Why are you advising against the vaccine and the NHS now they have put the best support they can in place, the very support you complain was not there at the start. " Holy God. It's on TV? That must mean it's true. I have no words for this monumental stupidity. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think everyone needs to realise you can't enforce a vaccine on people that don't want it. Vaccines are normally tested for ten years and for good reason. Covid has exposed some serious cracks in our society. Our health system is flawed, government, economy, infrastructure. I dread to think of the winter ahead. Herd immunity is how this will be suppressed. Not vaccines. And the NHS needs shut down. It is responsible for so many deaths during this entire out break and it is sadly going to continue. They are not your saviours. Well let’s hope you never need them or the ambulance service,paramedics ect
You're missing the point entirely...I did. Look how they behaved! "Expecting the knowledge and protocol we have now in February 2020 is entirely unreasonable. Masks were not adopted in western countries for ordinary people until months after that. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I understand the reality of the British constitution. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it is. The British constitution allows for "queen in parliament" to pass whatever law it chooses. The classical constitutional axiom is "murdering blue eyed babies". The British constitution allows for that. The same classic text goes on to say that British parliament may ban smoking in Parisian streets. It's legally permissible under British law - not that France would pay a blind bit of notice. Just because it's horrific and we should know better, does not change the reality of the mechanics of the British state. We don't have a constitution, although I'm not going to be obtuse and pretend I don't know what you are referring to when you say that. The point is that it's not the highest possible authority in the world. I'm also aware of the issues enforcing the higher authority but that's not the point. You and i can enter into legally binding contracts with each other. However, neither of us can legally agree to kill each other even if the contract states it and we both agree. Same principle. Parliament passes acts into law, they do not need to comply with the human rights act. If a court decides an act is conflicting with the human rights act it will pass the act back to parliament who will make a decision to change it or not. You are using contract to highlight the act of law is binding, parliament passes those laws and we are now back at the start of my response. " Nope that's a gross simplification. They do need to comply with human rights, there are just difficulties enforcing those because there's no world police (officially). You might not care about your human rights, but i assure you plenty of people do. In the main they were won with violence against tyrannical leaders and they will be protected the same way. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I caught Covid in Feb last year from a friend who was non-symptomatic who had visited China for business. The best way to fight Covid is the natural way - herd immunity. It took me a month to get over the severe symptoms and I was in hospital twice. Nature knows best. But you got help from the NHS Did I? Did I really? I'll tell you what I got. I got sent to A and E full of people with a letter IN my hand from my GP stating that I'd been in close contact with a man just back from a business convention in China with delegates from Wuhan - the known epi center of Covid. The Doctor stated that my chest infection was not responding to antibiotics and suspected it was viral in origin. I'd had two courses and my oxygen levels were very low. She recommended isolation and testing. What did the NHS do? They put me in the A and E waiting room for 8 hours, coughing my guts up. Then they triaged me and then isolated me. Now if that isn't stupid I don't know what is. This would be Feb 2020? The world or the the UK hadn't gone into lockdown and knowledge of the virus was very limited, but you expected your local hospital to be ahead of the curve? You come across in a very poor light How you view me is of no concern whatsoever. Of course the health authorities knew of Covid. Even then. If I did as an ordinary citizen, they certainly should have, especially when faced with a GP letter outlining concerns I may have Covid and had been in contact with a person travelling from the area. You are unreasonable in your expectation of the NHS to deal with a virus the world had little understanding of. You are complaining you suffered from a lack of support from the NHS but are telling others they or you don't need the support being offered by the NHS to prevent the very thing you are complaining about. Tell that to the fifty or so people in the waiting room forced to sit with me for 8 hrs while I had a Doctors letter stating she was certain I had Covid. Would you have sat beside me? It was on the TV in the waiting room all about Covid. I was sitting right there!! It is on TV now to get the vaccine, doctors are no longer sending people to hospital with a letter, they are advising to get vaccinated. Why are you advising against the vaccine and the NHS now they have put the best support they can in place, the very support you complain was not there at the start. Holy God. It's on TV? That must mean it's true. I have no words for this monumental stupidity. " This is awkward... You do realise I was quoting you back ref "it's on TV" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I understand the reality of the British constitution. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it is. The British constitution allows for "queen in parliament" to pass whatever law it chooses. The classical constitutional axiom is "murdering blue eyed babies". The British constitution allows for that. The same classic text goes on to say that British parliament may ban smoking in Parisian streets. It's legally permissible under British law - not that France would pay a blind bit of notice. Just because it's horrific and we should know better, does not change the reality of the mechanics of the British state. We don't have a constitution, although I'm not going to be obtuse and pretend I don't know what you are referring to when you say that. The point is that it's not the highest possible authority in the world. I'm also aware of the issues enforcing the higher authority but that's not the point. You and i can enter into legally binding contracts with each other. However, neither of us can legally agree to kill each other even if the contract states it and we both agree. Same principle. Parliament passes acts into law, they do not need to comply with the human rights act. If a court decides an act is conflicting with the human rights act it will pass the act back to parliament who will make a decision to change it or not. You are using contract to highlight the act of law is binding, parliament passes those laws and we are now back at the start of my response. Nope that's a gross simplification. They do need to comply with human rights, there are just difficulties enforcing those because there's no world police (officially). You might not care about your human rights, but i assure you plenty of people do. In the main they were won with violence against tyrannical leaders and they will be protected the same way. " It might be a simplification of sorts, but I can assure you it is fact. Would parliament decide to pass a law that was against the human rights act, probably not but it will in the interests of the state, its people and security. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I understand the reality of the British constitution. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it is. The British constitution allows for "queen in parliament" to pass whatever law it chooses. The classical constitutional axiom is "murdering blue eyed babies". The British constitution allows for that. The same classic text goes on to say that British parliament may ban smoking in Parisian streets. It's legally permissible under British law - not that France would pay a blind bit of notice. Just because it's horrific and we should know better, does not change the reality of the mechanics of the British state. We don't have a constitution, although I'm not going to be obtuse and pretend I don't know what you are referring to when you say that. The point is that it's not the highest possible authority in the world. I'm also aware of the issues enforcing the higher authority but that's not the point. You and i can enter into legally binding contracts with each other. However, neither of us can legally agree to kill each other even if the contract states it and we both agree. Same principle. Parliament passes acts into law, they do not need to comply with the human rights act. If a court decides an act is conflicting with the human rights act it will pass the act back to parliament who will make a decision to change it or not. You are using contract to highlight the act of law is binding, parliament passes those laws and we are now back at the start of my response. Nope that's a gross simplification. They do need to comply with human rights, there are just difficulties enforcing those because there's no world police (officially). You might not care about your human rights, but i assure you plenty of people do. In the main they were won with violence against tyrannical leaders and they will be protected the same way. It might be a simplification of sorts, but I can assure you it is fact. Would parliament decide to pass a law that was against the human rights act, probably not but it will in the interests of the state, its people and security. " The interests of the state and its people can radically differ. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"And what was before the NHS ? Charity hospitals for the poor and good treatment for the rich be wary of saying it’s not fit for purpose as the alternative is private care Many of us are resorting to that in any case. The reason why? The NHS is a shit show.
Wondered how long it would take for stones to be thrown at NHS.
A few months ago it was clapping in the street, kids making rainbow signs to place in windows, special opening times for NHS in supermarkets.
Now, it's a shit show.
To be fair we clapped for the workers who had to deal with this pandemic rather than the organisation of the NHS
Yes, but I think you get my drift.
I do.
Sadly some people think others are turning on the people working for the NHS when mentioning what is going on within it. The NHS seems to be on it's knees before this all started, happily there are some great people who work tirelessly in it, without which we would be in a bigger mess"The NHS will always struggle. As system that was set up for false teeth and glasses(slightly exaggerated there)it will always struggle to meet expectations. How many places can you nip in see a person at the top of their career, receive their long trained skill and expertise and get it for free. I know everyone will jump in saying I've paid my tax and national insurance all my life but in reality, it wouldn't even scratch the surface. What will the future hold, no idea. Maybe a split between chronic care on NHS and general surgery covered by private insurance. Whatever comes I believe a big discussion will be needed but no government will dare grasp that nettle. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"And what was before the NHS ? Charity hospitals for the poor and good treatment for the rich be wary of saying it’s not fit for purpose as the alternative is private care Many of us are resorting to that in any case. The reason why? The NHS is a shit show.
Wondered how long it would take for stones to be thrown at NHS.
A few months ago it was clapping in the street, kids making rainbow signs to place in windows, special opening times for NHS in supermarkets.
Now, it's a shit show.
To be fair we clapped for the workers who had to deal with this pandemic rather than the organisation of the NHS
Yes, but I think you get my drift.
I do.
Sadly some people think others are turning on the people working for the NHS when mentioning what is going on within it. The NHS seems to be on it's knees before this all started, happily there are some great people who work tirelessly in it, without which we would be in a bigger mess
The NHS will always struggle.
As system that was set up for false teeth and glasses(slightly exaggerated there)it will always struggle to meet expectations.
How many places can you nip in see a person at the top of their career, receive their long trained skill and expertise and get it for free.
I know everyone will jump in saying I've paid my tax and national insurance all my life but in reality, it wouldn't even scratch the surface.
What will the future hold, no idea.
Maybe a split between chronic care on NHS and general surgery covered by private insurance.
Whatever comes I believe a big discussion will be needed but no government will dare grasp that nettle.
"I'm sorry but the NHS receives an absolute fortune. Many healthcare systems around the world receive less money but do far better. A has to do with mis management. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"And what was before the NHS ? Charity hospitals for the poor and good treatment for the rich be wary of saying it’s not fit for purpose as the alternative is private care Many of us are resorting to that in any case. The reason why? The NHS is a shit show.
Wondered how long it would take for stones to be thrown at NHS.
A few months ago it was clapping in the street, kids making rainbow signs to place in windows, special opening times for NHS in supermarkets.
Now, it's a shit show.
To be fair we clapped for the workers who had to deal with this pandemic rather than the organisation of the NHS
Yes, but I think you get my drift.
I do.
Sadly some people think others are turning on the people working for the NHS when mentioning what is going on within it. The NHS seems to be on it's knees before this all started, happily there are some great people who work tirelessly in it, without which we would be in a bigger mess
The NHS will always struggle.
As system that was set up for false teeth and glasses(slightly exaggerated there)it will always struggle to meet expectations.
How many places can you nip in see a person at the top of their career, receive their long trained skill and expertise and get it for free.
I know everyone will jump in saying I've paid my tax and national insurance all my life but in reality, it wouldn't even scratch the surface.
What will the future hold, no idea.
Maybe a split between chronic care on NHS and general surgery covered by private insurance.
Whatever comes I believe a big discussion will be needed but no government will dare grasp that nettle.
I'm sorry but the NHS receives an absolute fortune. Many healthcare systems around the world receive less money but do far better. A has to do with mis management. "Also the nhs gets used for things that it should never have to deal with. Alcoholics, drugs addicts type 2 diabetes brought on by being obese ect. That’s a big drain on resources | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"And what was before the NHS ? Charity hospitals for the poor and good treatment for the rich be wary of saying it’s not fit for purpose as the alternative is private care Many of us are resorting to that in any case. The reason why? The NHS is a shit show.
Wondered how long it would take for stones to be thrown at NHS.
A few months ago it was clapping in the street, kids making rainbow signs to place in windows, special opening times for NHS in supermarkets.
Now, it's a shit show.
To be fair we clapped for the workers who had to deal with this pandemic rather than the organisation of the NHS
Yes, but I think you get my drift.
I do.
Sadly some people think others are turning on the people working for the NHS when mentioning what is going on within it. The NHS seems to be on it's knees before this all started, happily there are some great people who work tirelessly in it, without which we would be in a bigger mess
The NHS will always struggle.
As system that was set up for false teeth and glasses(slightly exaggerated there)it will always struggle to meet expectations.
How many places can you nip in see a person at the top of their career, receive their long trained skill and expertise and get it for free.
I know everyone will jump in saying I've paid my tax and national insurance all my life but in reality, it wouldn't even scratch the surface.
What will the future hold, no idea.
Maybe a split between chronic care on NHS and general surgery covered by private insurance.
Whatever comes I believe a big discussion will be needed but no government will dare grasp that nettle.
I'm sorry but the NHS receives an absolute fortune. Many healthcare systems around the world receive less money but do far better. A has to do with mis management. "Per capita, we don't spend as much as many other European countries and countries of comparable status, actually. There's some interesting data on the World Bank website under the title "Current health expenditure per capita (current US$)" The USA spends, for example $10,600 per capita whereas the UK spends $4,300 per capita (2018 figures). This is despite the USA being predominantly a private healthcare system. According to the ONS in 2019, "However, of the G7 group of large, developed economies, UK healthcare spending per person was the second-lowest, with the highest spenders being France (£3,737), Germany (£4,432) and the United States (£7,736)." ONS data here: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/articles/howdoesukhealthcarespendingcomparewithothercountries/2019-08-29 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Is ADE like locking your garden gate but dropping your house keys and wallet whilst at the gate?" Kinda yes; but more like the dog stops barking and leans onto the gate to keep it ajar. It is complex and isnt the same process with all virae or vaccines. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This story just popped up on my newsfeed from the beeb... Of you're interested have a read. It's interesting in as much as it just shows although in these fora things mostly seem to be black or white... Stupid or sensible... Selfish or caring etc... Just goes to show that reality is shades of gray .. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59077036 One of the interesting stats are if you're double jabbed and in a house "the chance of them transmitting the virus to other unvaccinated housemates is about two in five, or 38%. This drops to one in four, or 25%, if housemates are also fully vaccinated." Doesn't provide any further granularity by age group or sex but good to see some numbers. " There isnt enough data for such a stratification to be remotely useful. You have to assume virae dont care about age, sex etc.. One of my gripes with the news is the absence of context. Those figures are highly(!) dependent on the sample studied.. ie. house size, children numbers, socioeconomical class etc. They give a false sense of security. If you are concerned about HIV and think condoms are justified, you should be VERY concerned about covid and wear a mask, keep distances, and isolate (from) people with ANY symptom for a while. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"And what was before the NHS ? Charity hospitals for the poor and good treatment for the rich be wary of saying it’s not fit for purpose as the alternative is private care Many of us are resorting to that in any case. The reason why? The NHS is a shit show.
Wondered how long it would take for stones to be thrown at NHS.
A few months ago it was clapping in the street, kids making rainbow signs to place in windows, special opening times for NHS in supermarkets.
Now, it's a shit show.
To be fair we clapped for the workers who had to deal with this pandemic rather than the organisation of the NHS
Yes, but I think you get my drift.
I do.
Sadly some people think others are turning on the people working for the NHS when mentioning what is going on within it. The NHS seems to be on it's knees before this all started, happily there are some great people who work tirelessly in it, without which we would be in a bigger mess
The NHS will always struggle.
As system that was set up for false teeth and glasses(slightly exaggerated there)it will always struggle to meet expectations.
How many places can you nip in see a person at the top of their career, receive their long trained skill and expertise and get it for free.
I know everyone will jump in saying I've paid my tax and national insurance all my life but in reality, it wouldn't even scratch the surface.
What will the future hold, no idea.
Maybe a split between chronic care on NHS and general surgery covered by private insurance.
Whatever comes I believe a big discussion will be needed but no government will dare grasp that nettle.
I'm sorry but the NHS receives an absolute fortune. Many healthcare systems around the world receive less money but do far better. A has to do with mis management. "Think abuse of NHS has a great deal to do with it. I see it every day, but nothing new there. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This story just popped up on my newsfeed from the beeb... Of you're interested have a read. It's interesting in as much as it just shows although in these fora things mostly seem to be black or white... Stupid or sensible... Selfish or caring etc... Just goes to show that reality is shades of gray .. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59077036 One of the interesting stats are if you're double jabbed and in a house "the chance of them transmitting the virus to other unvaccinated housemates is about two in five, or 38%. This drops to one in four, or 25%, if housemates are also fully vaccinated." Doesn't provide any further granularity by age group or sex but good to see some numbers. There isnt enough data for such a stratification to be remotely useful. You have to assume virae dont care about age, sex etc.. One of my gripes with the news is the absence of context. Those figures are highly(!) dependent on the sample studied.. ie. house size, children numbers, socioeconomical class etc. They give a false sense of security. If you are concerned about HIV and think condoms are justified, you should be VERY concerned about covid and wear a mask, keep distances, and isolate (from) people with ANY symptom for a while. " Yep. There's a lot of half arsed "science" results and agenda driven "news stories" out there. It's hard to filter what's important from what's noise. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sorry to state the obvious but duh, The virus cares nothing for locations, it doesn't sit with a travel brochure & decide where to go, it carried by people vaccinated or not to places where people go & met other people. hence why passports are useless societal segregation tool However I'm not for more lockdowns, this is now endemic & we have to live with it, like we do with other viruses. People have the option of a vaccine, beyond that it's your own health & lifestyle people need to look at to ensure their best health & immunity." As I see it like me the vaccinated are more like to cary it unknowingly and spred it to in others. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Another interesting stat in today’s paper…..you’re 32 times more likely to die from Covid if you’ve not been vaccinated. Glad I didn’t take the risk……I value my life!" Statistical I'm more likely to be murdered by a man, so should I stop dating & hide away? There's risk in everything, death is just a part of life as are viruses. So guess what, I live , keep myself healthy & try to keep the planet healthy. I dont stop having sex because a sti might get me nor do you, I don't stop cutting potatoes incase I cut myself, I don't stop driving through fear of accidents, I don't avoid the stair through fear of falling,I didn't stop riding horse through fear of death (most dangerous sport) either, I do fear butting stuff in my body that I cannot get out though. so many times has NHS said something would be good for me & in long term it has been detrimental. My skeleton is fecked because they wouldn't listen & gave me injections & contraceptives I should never have had, now I'm potentially looking at an op to correct something else. My dad has developed a blood clot post vaccines (needs to be investigated), I'm at high risk of clots already. Yet folk like me can't get exemption to bypass vax passports despite evidence of that being a well known side effect..that's discrimination & controlling who can go & work where. all of the above have risk to life too, people forget life is full of risks & have been taught over past decades to find someone to blame over accepting that someone's time is up, there's no need for reason or why, it just is & all of us will face death at some point, you don't get to decide when or by what (with 1 exception) | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I’m double vaccinated, caught covid from a work colleague whose also double vaccination and I’ve never felt so unwell. I was seriously scared and I’m very fit and well generally. I’d dread to think what the unvaccinated version would feel like
You'd probably fair better...or not. Impossible to say from the outset. If the doctors and scientists who have sounded the alarm regarding antibody dependant enhancement as correct, your case might be typical."Stop trying to spread fear. ADE would occur whether someone is vaccinated or whether they caught COVID naturally twice. We’d see millions of cases of that already by now if it were true. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I’m double vaccinated, caught covid from a work colleague whose also double vaccination and I’ve never felt so unwell. I was seriously scared and I’m very fit and well generally. I’d dread to think what the unvaccinated version would feel like "Just going to throw this one out there. A friends father in-law got covid first time around, bit ill, survived, fine. Second time around double jabbed, covid, bad state, dead. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I’m double vaccinated, caught covid from a work colleague whose also double vaccination and I’ve never felt so unwell. I was seriously scared and I’m very fit and well generally. I’d dread to think what the unvaccinated version would feel like
Just going to throw this one out there.
A friends father in-law got covid first time around, bit ill, survived, fine.
Second time around double jabbed, covid, bad state, dead.
"Ah! a friends father in-law | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The virus also doesn't care if it's recipient, is in a shop, using public transport etc. So why people decide to remove their masks when exiting either, is a bit mad imho. "Some people actually make a point of over exaggerating taking it off too
Simple terms people just cannot be bothered to follow procedures and take shortcuts making things ineffective.
I even see people walking down hospital corridors noses sticking out the top of masks | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Just going to throw this one out there. A friends father in-law got covid first time around, bit ill, survived, fine. Second time around double jabbed, covid, bad state, dead. " I didn't win the lottery last night. Therefore nobody has ever won the lottery. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The virus also doesn't care if it's recipient, is in a shop, using public transport etc. So why people decide to remove their masks when exiting either, is a bit mad imho. "Can’t you use common sense? A shop or public transport is cramped. When you leave those areas it’s not cramped and fresh air and UV light is circulating | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"If we are double vaccinated but someone in our house tests positive we still have to come into to work. Have to test negative on a pcr... then daily lft. But still go into work ( which I disagree with personally )" Same here and I work in close contact with vulnerable groups albeit wearing PPE and still encouraging mask wear in store, I just don't get it | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Can't we have a discussion without the sarcasm when people don't agree with a post..? Everyone has their own experiences we can at least respect that surely. " This | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think the reality now is that the vast majority of people having been double jabbed just want to go back to normal life and accept the risks. Around central london, shops, pubs, theatres, restaurants, clubs are busy with not a mask in sight. I think now is the time for those who still feel vulnerable to take responsibility for their own health and safety and stop moaning about what is basically the vast majority getting on with life. " If you are given a choice of either wearing a mask in crowded places or go back into a lockdown which would you choose? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think the reality now is that the vast majority of people having been double jabbed just want to go back to normal life and accept the risks. Around central london, shops, pubs, theatres, restaurants, clubs are busy with not a mask in sight. I think now is the time for those who still feel vulnerable to take responsibility for their own health and safety and stop moaning about what is basically the vast majority getting on with life. If you are given a choice of either wearing a mask in crowded places or go back into a lockdown which would you choose? " . Pointless question because it’s a choice that will never be offered. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think the reality now is that the vast majority of people having been double jabbed just want to go back to normal life and accept the risks. Around central london, shops, pubs, theatres, restaurants, clubs are busy with not a mask in sight. I think now is the time for those who still feel vulnerable to take responsibility for their own health and safety and stop moaning about what is basically the vast majority getting on with life. If you are given a choice of either wearing a mask in crowded places or go back into a lockdown which would you choose? . Pointless question because it’s a choice that will never be offered. " Not at all pointless, the government guidelines clearly give advice on how to stay safe and protect others. Your post indicates you do not see the need to do any of that. The government guidelines also mention the advice will stop pressure on the NHS, we know from experience if the NHS is overwhelmed it ended up in lockdown. You have a choice, take the advice and become more preventative in the spread by taking precautions now, or ignore everything until you are told what to do. Which is exactly the question I asked you, would you wear a face mask now or rather go into restrictions later. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think the reality now is that the vast majority of people having been double jabbed just want to go back to normal life and accept the risks. Around central london, shops, pubs, theatres, restaurants, clubs are busy with not a mask in sight. I think now is the time for those who still feel vulnerable to take responsibility for their own health and safety and stop moaning about what is basically the vast majority getting on with life. If you are given a choice of either wearing a mask in crowded places or go back into a lockdown which would you choose? " 91% of people classed as vulnerable are still attempting to shield. Society has failed them. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" 91% of people classed as vulnerable are still attempting to shield. Society has failed them." In my opinion, you're saying that because the government has failed them and then the burden falls on 'society', but that's a catch 22 situation. For example, the government should have facilitated the creation of isolated care homes that run the way an army tour does. The staff go in on a 6 month deployment, they live there for 6 months, no going out and they earn a fuck tonne of money for doing so. I'd say £80k per tour personally. But instead what we actually got was Matt Hancock discharging covid infected hospital patients directly into care homes without even testing them. There's nothing 'society' can do that is going to counterbalance that level of stupidity that's just one of many examples. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think the reality now is that the vast majority of people having been double jabbed just want to go back to normal life and accept the risks. Around central london, shops, pubs, theatres, restaurants, clubs are busy with not a mask in sight. I think now is the time for those who still feel vulnerable to take responsibility for their own health and safety and stop moaning about what is basically the vast majority getting on with life. If you are given a choice of either wearing a mask in crowded places or go back into a lockdown which would you choose? . Pointless question because it’s a choice that will never be offered. Not at all pointless, the government guidelines clearly give advice on how to stay safe and protect others. Your post indicates you do not see the need to do any of that. The government guidelines also mention the advice will stop pressure on the NHS, we know from experience if the NHS is overwhelmed it ended up in lockdown. You have a choice, take the advice and become more preventative in the spread by taking precautions now, or ignore everything until you are told what to do. Which is exactly the question I asked you, would you wear a face mask now or rather go into restrictions later." . My post indicates nothing of the sort. I simply pointed out that of the vast number of people i see in central london every day very very few are wearing masks; and therefore people who see themselves as vulnerable need to be aware and take neccesary precautions. It is simply my observation of what is going on. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" 91% of people classed as vulnerable are still attempting to shield. Society has failed them. In my opinion, you're saying that because the government has failed them and then the burden falls on 'society', but that's a catch 22 situation. For example, the government should have facilitated the creation of isolated care homes that run the way an army tour does. The staff go in on a 6 month deployment, they live there for 6 months, no going out and they earn a fuck tonne of money for doing so. I'd say £80k per tour personally. But instead what we actually got was Matt Hancock discharging covid infected hospital patients directly into care homes without even testing them. There's nothing 'society' can do that is going to counterbalance that level of stupidity that's just one of many examples. " I wont disagree in hindsight that there are things the government could / should have done better. The role of the government is not less than or more than the role of the people in society, everyone plays a part. It is common practice to call out a government for not doing something to prevent or to create, as if a government has a crystal ball. Government is made up of people like you and me, there is no crystal ball. We seem to pin our lack of personal social care on their failures, they got it wrong so therefore it's got nothing to do with me! This attitude is often supported or driven by the media who are experts in cultivating the blame culture, we blame everyone but ourselves, it is not just the government we blame, blame is everywhere in everything we do and interact with it is woven into the DNA of our society giving people an excuse card. There is no magic wand, our society is the sum of its mass | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think the reality now is that the vast majority of people having been double jabbed just want to go back to normal life and accept the risks. Around central london, shops, pubs, theatres, restaurants, clubs are busy with not a mask in sight. I think now is the time for those who still feel vulnerable to take responsibility for their own health and safety and stop moaning about what is basically the vast majority getting on with life. If you are given a choice of either wearing a mask in crowded places or go back into a lockdown which would you choose? . Pointless question because it’s a choice that will never be offered. Not at all pointless, the government guidelines clearly give advice on how to stay safe and protect others. Your post indicates you do not see the need to do any of that. The government guidelines also mention the advice will stop pressure on the NHS, we know from experience if the NHS is overwhelmed it ended up in lockdown. You have a choice, take the advice and become more preventative in the spread by taking precautions now, or ignore everything until you are told what to do. Which is exactly the question I asked you, would you wear a face mask now or rather go into restrictions later.. My post indicates nothing of the sort. I simply pointed out that of the vast number of people i see in central london every day very very few are wearing masks; and therefore people who see themselves as vulnerable need to be aware and take neccesary precautions. It is simply my observation of what is going on. " Understood, but do you think those who have decided to not take precautions could do more to help prevent future restrictions being imposed by the government. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think the reality now is that the vast majority of people having been double jabbed just want to go back to normal life and accept the risks. Around central london, shops, pubs, theatres, restaurants, clubs are busy with not a mask in sight. I think now is the time for those who still feel vulnerable to take responsibility for their own health and safety and stop moaning about what is basically the vast majority getting on with life. If you are given a choice of either wearing a mask in crowded places or go back into a lockdown which would you choose? 91% of people classed as vulnerable are still attempting to shield. Society has failed them." People on chemo or have Luekemia have always had to be careful , this the first time the healthy have ever been locked up , | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" 91% of people classed as vulnerable are still attempting to shield. Society has failed them. In my opinion, you're saying that because the government has failed them and then the burden falls on 'society', but that's a catch 22 situation. For example, the government should have facilitated the creation of isolated care homes that run the way an army tour does. The staff go in on a 6 month deployment, they live there for 6 months, no going out and they earn a fuck tonne of money for doing so. I'd say £80k per tour personally. But instead what we actually got was Matt Hancock discharging covid infected hospital patients directly into care homes without even testing them. There's nothing 'society' can do that is going to counterbalance that level of stupidity that's just one of many examples. I wont disagree in hindsight that there are things the government could / should have done better. The role of the government is not less than or more than the role of the people in society, everyone plays a part. It is common practice to call out a government for not doing something to prevent or to create, as if a government has a crystal ball. Government is made up of people like you and me, there is no crystal ball. We seem to pin our lack of personal social care on their failures, they got it wrong so therefore it's got nothing to do with me! This attitude is often supported or driven by the media who are experts in cultivating the blame culture, we blame everyone but ourselves, it is not just the government we blame, blame is everywhere in everything we do and interact with it is woven into the DNA of our society giving people an excuse card. There is no magic wand, our society is the sum of its mass" Sorry but that's absolute poppycock on so many levels. I'm sick of hearing this word "hindsight" - that's got absolutely nothing to do with it. The government did 2 pandemic simulations shortly before and ignored the conclusions of both. "We should follow our own advice" is not something you need to learn in hindsight. The government is not made up of people like me. I'm good at my job. I wouldn't employ a modeller of infectious diseases who was too stupid to know that care homes rely heavily on agency staff. The government would. I wouldn't have anything to do with Neil Ferguson who has never made an accurate forecast in his career and has zero medical or biology qualifications. I do blame them because they are held to a lower standard than I am. I don't have a choice in paying taxes and I don't get to choose who works on pandemics, so at the very least I will shame them for doing such a bad job. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think the reality now is that the vast majority of people having been double jabbed just want to go back to normal life and accept the risks. Around central london, shops, pubs, theatres, restaurants, clubs are busy with not a mask in sight. I think now is the time for those who still feel vulnerable to take responsibility for their own health and safety and stop moaning about what is basically the vast majority getting on with life. If you are given a choice of either wearing a mask in crowded places or go back into a lockdown which would you choose? . Pointless question because it’s a choice that will never be offered. Not at all pointless, the government guidelines clearly give advice on how to stay safe and protect others. Your post indicates you do not see the need to do any of that. The government guidelines also mention the advice will stop pressure on the NHS, we know from experience if the NHS is overwhelmed it ended up in lockdown. You have a choice, take the advice and become more preventative in the spread by taking precautions now, or ignore everything until you are told what to do. Which is exactly the question I asked you, would you wear a face mask now or rather go into restrictions later.. My post indicates nothing of the sort. I simply pointed out that of the vast number of people i see in central london every day very very few are wearing masks; and therefore people who see themselves as vulnerable need to be aware and take neccesary precautions. It is simply my observation of what is going on. Understood, but do you think those who have decided to not take precautions could do more to help prevent future restrictions being imposed by the government. Absolutely i do. " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think the reality now is that the vast majority of people having been double jabbed just want to go back to normal life and accept the risks. Around central london, shops, pubs, theatres, restaurants, clubs are busy with not a mask in sight. I think now is the time for those who still feel vulnerable to take responsibility for their own health and safety and stop moaning about what is basically the vast majority getting on with life. If you are given a choice of either wearing a mask in crowded places or go back into a lockdown which would you choose? . Pointless question because it’s a choice that will never be offered. Not at all pointless, the government guidelines clearly give advice on how to stay safe and protect others. Your post indicates you do not see the need to do any of that. The government guidelines also mention the advice will stop pressure on the NHS, we know from experience if the NHS is overwhelmed it ended up in lockdown. You have a choice, take the advice and become more preventative in the spread by taking precautions now, or ignore everything until you are told what to do. Which is exactly the question I asked you, would you wear a face mask now or rather go into restrictions later.. My post indicates nothing of the sort. I simply pointed out that of the vast number of people i see in central london every day very very few are wearing masks; and therefore people who see themselves as vulnerable need to be aware and take neccesary precautions. It is simply my observation of what is going on. Understood, but do you think those who have decided to not take precautions could do more to help prevent future restrictions being imposed by the government. Absolutely i do. " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course they can still spread it, can still carry, can even still cause new mutations But don't say it too loudly ornyoull be branded a loon." Why not that is what the scientists, immunologists etc. have been saying all the time, it is only rumour mongers who say otherwise. The vaccine is doing what it is supposed to do protect people from the most serious effects of covid-19. Just like the Flu vaccine does not prevent the vaccinated catching the flu | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
