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Early data for potential 5-11 year olds and the vaccine
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"Absolutely not. 12-15 year olds don't need it what makes you think younger need it? The three posters above me all need locking up along with the leaders and scientists that are even suggesting this." The OP answered why there is potential benefit to younger children having the vaccine. | |||
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"Loves to please Well said that man !! All above you are talking utter shite Xx" im guesding most who want everyone jabbed dont have young kids themselves,i have a 9 yr old and its a big no from me and my ex,remember when all this started kids aint at high risk and only the vunreble need the jab now its every one from cradle to grave,not trusted gov much since this all started now i dont belive a word they say anymore | |||
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"Absolutely not. 12-15 year olds don't need it what makes you think younger need it? The three posters above me all need locking up along with the leaders and scientists that are even suggesting this." Why do you say that….. although we know the risk in children being Seriously ill with covid is small… the delta variant is still 5 times more serious to children than both the original and the alpha (Kent) variant….. Plus if we know that people vaccinated are 5 times more likely to not catch covid than those unvaccinated in the first place… doesn’t it mean that for example they are less of a risk to parents, to teachers, to grandparents ect…. Also… would it not help in nurseries, and thus getting people back to work… Just thinking out loud on the different ways it could have normality But I think for you to say they need locking up for disagreeing with you is bang out of order! | |||
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"Absolutely not. 12-15 year olds don't need it what makes you think younger need it? The three posters above me all need locking up along with the leaders and scientists that are even suggesting this. Why do you say that….. although we know the risk in children being Seriously ill with covid is small… the delta variant is still 5 times more serious to children than both the original and the alpha (Kent) variant….. Plus if we know that people vaccinated are 5 times more likely to not catch covid than those unvaccinated in the first place… doesn’t it mean that for example they are less of a risk to parents, to teachers, to grandparents ect…. Also… would it not help in nurseries, and thus getting people back to work… Just thinking out loud on the different ways it could have normality But I think for you to say they need locking up for disagreeing with you is bang out of order! " The vaccines ARE the delta variant | |||
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"FDA rejected recent pfizer boosters " No they didn’t…. They didn’t see the benefit to offering it to anyone under 65 at this point in time! It doesn’t mean they won’t come back to it…. And they did agree with the suggestion for a booster for those over 65 and in jobs for people dealing with them in a primary work setting…. Healthcare for example | |||
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" The vaccines ARE the delta variant " Thank you for showing your misunderstanding of the science…. The vaccine was designed for the original variant…. Which is why they always show you figures for the South African, Brazilian and delta (Indian) variants | |||
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"A smaller dose in children (1/3 of the adult) may ease most parents’ fears. Could be a step into the right direction." No actually it would not. My 12 year old isn't getting 1/3, 1/6, or even 1/8th. That shit isn't going anywhere near him. | |||
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" The vaccines ARE the delta variant Thank you for showing your misunderstanding of the science…. The vaccine was designed for the original variant…. Which is why they always show you figures for the South African, Brazilian and delta (Indian) variants" Yeah yeah what ever there was no variants until the vaccines came. Go research leaky vaccines. It's where vaccines that don't stop a virus and people still get it and they have a vaccine in there body causing the mutation. | |||
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"A smaller dose in children (1/3 of the adult) may ease most parents’ fears. Could be a step into the right direction. No actually it would not. My 12 year old isn't getting 1/3, 1/6, or even 1/8th. That shit isn't going anywhere near him." But ok with them getting covid with all the potential long term effects? The OP has flagged an early study which although shows potential still needs more data. You are dismissing out of hand why already? You would rather believe in gut instinct than science and data. | |||
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" The vaccines ARE the delta variant Thank you for showing your misunderstanding of the science…. The vaccine was designed for the original variant…. Which is why they always show you figures for the South African, Brazilian and delta (Indian) variants Yeah yeah what ever there was no variants until the vaccines came. Go research leaky vaccines. It's where vaccines that don't stop a virus and people still get it and they have a vaccine in there body causing the mutation. " The Alpha (Kent), the Brazilian and the South African ones all appeared before the vaccines. | |||
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" The vaccines ARE the delta variant Thank you for showing your misunderstanding of the science…. The vaccine was designed for the original variant…. Which is why they always show you figures for the South African, Brazilian and delta (Indian) variants Yeah yeah what ever there was no variants until the vaccines came. Go research leaky vaccines. It's where vaccines that don't stop a virus and people still get it and they have a vaccine in there body causing the mutation. " The Alpha variant was first detected in September 2020. When were vaccines rolled out? There was an OFR8 variant of Covid detected in Singapore in January to March 2020. How many vaccines were even in human trials then? | |||
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"Loves to please Well said that man !! All above you are talking utter shite Xx" https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-heres-everything-you-need-to-know-about-vaccinating-children-against-coronavirus-12398830 | |||
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"Loves to please Well said that man !! All above you are talking utter shite Xxim guesding most who want everyone jabbed dont have young kids themselves,i have a 9 yr old and its a big no from me and my ex,remember when all this started kids aint at high risk and only the vunreble need the jab now its every one from cradle to grave,not trusted gov much since this all started now i dont belive a word they say anymore" Exactly mate. They keep pushing those goal posts further and further. The "irreversible lock downs are coming this winter but I for one and many others I know won't be following them this time round. I think most of the country is done with this now and had enough except for the handful on here who will gladly follow this government off a cliff so it seems. | |||
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"A smaller dose in children (1/3 of the adult) may ease most parents’ fears. Could be a step into the right direction. No actually it would not. My 12 year old isn't getting 1/3, 1/6, or even 1/8th. That shit isn't going anywhere near him. But ok with them getting covid with all the potential long term effects? The OP has flagged an early study which although shows potential still needs more data. You are dismissing out of hand why already? You would rather believe in gut instinct than science and data." Oh behave kids have nothing to fear about covid... zero, zilch, Nadal Stop watching the news | |||
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" The vaccines ARE the delta variant Thank you for showing your misunderstanding of the science…. The vaccine was designed for the original variant…. Which is why they always show you figures for the South African, Brazilian and delta (Indian) variants Yeah yeah what ever there was no variants until the vaccines came. Go research leaky vaccines. It's where vaccines that don't stop a virus and people still get it and they have a vaccine in there body causing the mutation. The Alpha variant was first detected in September 2020. When were vaccines rolled out? There was an OFR8 variant of Covid detected in Singapore in January to March 2020. How many vaccines were even in human trials then?" I think you will find those variants came from the countries that was doing the trails with vaccines.. Oh look, south Africa, Brazil, India, and the US all places that took part in trails and all countries variants came from. Coincidence? Nope no such thing | |||
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" The vaccines ARE the delta variant Thank you for showing your misunderstanding of the science…. The vaccine was designed for the original variant…. Which is why they always show you figures for the South African, Brazilian and delta (Indian) variants Yeah yeah what ever there was no variants until the vaccines came. Go research leaky vaccines. It's where vaccines that don't stop a virus and people still get it and they have a vaccine in there body causing the mutation. The Alpha variant was first detected in September 2020. When were vaccines rolled out? There was an OFR8 variant of Covid detected in Singapore in January to March 2020. How many vaccines were even in human trials then? I think you will find those variants came from the countries that was doing the trails with vaccines.. Oh look, south Africa, Brazil, India, and the US all places that took part in trails and all countries variants came from. Coincidence? Nope no such thing" You mean the main variants came from the clinic,trials involving a few thousands? If this is the case where are the new variants after hundreds of millions of people are getting the vaccines? No other main variants yet. | |||
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"Not remotely anti vax. Previously vax hesitant for myself until I could understand comparable risks. Could then decide for my own body. Still not comfortable about children being vaccinated until we get some definitive data proving there is no risk to long term/future fertility. Short term risks from vaccine and Covid are small (statistically very small) so is it really necessary to take a leap into the unknown? Can all the Fab science/virology experts explain to me why a vaccine(s) developed to tackle/prevent a respiratory virus has been impacting on some women’s menstrual cycles and is thickening the lining of the Uterus? How are the two separate body systems connected?" Its not something I've looked into yet, but I suspect it is a short term impact which is linked to the much publicised (although extremely rare) cases of blood clots. I'll do some digging but I suspect there is some blood thickening effects of the vaccine that impact in the short term. | |||
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" The vaccines ARE the delta variant Thank you for showing your misunderstanding of the science…. The vaccine was designed for the original variant…. Which is why they always show you figures for the South African, Brazilian and delta (Indian) variants Yeah yeah what ever there was no variants until the vaccines came. Go research leaky vaccines. It's where vaccines that don't stop a virus and people still get it and they have a vaccine in there body causing the mutation. The Alpha variant was first detected in September 2020. When were vaccines rolled out? There was an OFR8 variant of Covid detected in Singapore in January to March 2020. How many vaccines were even in human trials then? I think you will find those variants came from the countries that was doing the trails with vaccines.. Oh look, south Africa, Brazil, India, and the US all places that took part in trails and all countries variants came from. Coincidence? Nope no such thing" Really? Oh. You learn something new everyday. Why have we not seen variants explode along with vaccination rates, then? Surely we must be up to Digamma by now, or even Kappa 2, if vaccination causes variants and people have become part of that in their billions. Alpha - there's less than 40k vaccine trial participants total, and some are post Alpha. How many variants do we have in the UK? Thousands? Must be. Blimey. | |||
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"I'm glad the science is progressing, and I hope that the parents who want the choice, get it" we agree that it should be a choice. | |||
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" The vaccines ARE the delta variant Thank you for showing your misunderstanding of the science…. The vaccine was designed for the original variant…. Which is why they always show you figures for the South African, Brazilian and delta (Indian) variants Yeah yeah what ever there was no variants until the vaccines came. Go research leaky vaccines. It's where vaccines that don't stop a virus and people still get it and they have a vaccine in there body causing the mutation. The Alpha variant was first detected in September 2020. When were vaccines rolled out? There was an OFR8 variant of Covid detected in Singapore in January to March 2020. How many vaccines were even in human trials then? I think you will find those variants came from the countries that was doing the trails with vaccines.. Oh look, south Africa, Brazil, India, and the US all places that took part in trails and all countries variants came from. Coincidence? Nope no such thing Really? Oh. You learn something new everyday. Why have we not seen variants explode along with vaccination rates, then? Surely we must be up to Digamma by now, or even Kappa 2, if vaccination causes variants and people have become part of that in their billions. Alpha - there's less than 40k vaccine trial participants total, and some are post Alpha. How many variants do we have in the UK? Thousands? Must be. Blimey." See your all blind. You will defend your vaccines to your last breath.... well guess what I will defend my kids to my last breath. Somthing horrible is coming and will come to a head soon enough. There is going to be war on the streets. Hope your ready. I am a well as hundreds of thousands of other parents, | |||
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"Not remotely anti vax. Previously vax hesitant for myself until I could understand comparable risks. Could then decide for my own body. Still not comfortable about children being vaccinated until we get some definitive data proving there is no risk to long term/future fertility. Short term risks from vaccine and Covid are small (statistically very small) so is it really necessary to take a leap into the unknown? Can all the Fab science/virology experts explain to me why a vaccine(s) developed to tackle/prevent a respiratory virus has been impacting on some women’s menstrual cycles and is thickening the lining of the Uterus? How are the two separate body systems connected?" OK its a good question and this is what I have so far. Plausible link The womb lining is part of the immune system - in fact there are immune cells in almost every part of the body. Immune cells play a role in building up, maintaining and breaking down the lining of the uterus - which thickens to prepare for a pregnancy, and then sheds in the form of a period if the egg is not fertilised. After vaccination, lots of chemical signals which have the potential to affect immune cells are circulating round the body. This could cause the womb lining to shed, and lead to spotting or earlier periods. | |||
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" The vaccines ARE the delta variant Thank you for showing your misunderstanding of the science…. The vaccine was designed for the original variant…. Which is why they always show you figures for the South African, Brazilian and delta (Indian) variants Yeah yeah what ever there was no variants until the vaccines came. Go research leaky vaccines. It's where vaccines that don't stop a virus and people still get it and they have a vaccine in there body causing the mutation. The Alpha variant was first detected in September 2020. When were vaccines rolled out? There was an OFR8 variant of Covid detected in Singapore in January to March 2020. How many vaccines were even in human trials then? I think you will find those variants came from the countries that was doing the trails with vaccines.. Oh look, south Africa, Brazil, India, and the US all places that took part in trails and all countries variants came from. Coincidence? Nope no such thing Really? Oh. You learn something new everyday. Why have we not seen variants explode along with vaccination rates, then? Surely we must be up to Digamma by now, or even Kappa 2, if vaccination causes variants and people have become part of that in their billions. Alpha - there's less than 40k vaccine trial participants total, and some are post Alpha. How many variants do we have in the UK? Thousands? Must be. Blimey. See your all blind. You will defend your vaccines to your last breath.... well guess what I will defend my kids to my last breath. Somthing horrible is coming and will come to a head soon enough. There is going to be war on the streets. Hope your ready. I am a well as hundreds of thousands of other parents, " I'm using your logic. If vaccines cause variants, let's say there were 40k volunteers at the time of Alpha (it's less, but let's use it). 44.4 million people have had two doses in the UK. If 40k people cause one variant, then 44.4 million people should cause 1110 variants. There aren't enough Greek letters for that, even in dialects  | |||
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" The vaccines ARE the delta variant Thank you for showing your misunderstanding of the science…. The vaccine was designed for the original variant…. Which is why they always show you figures for the South African, Brazilian and delta (Indian) variants Yeah yeah what ever there was no variants until the vaccines came. Go research leaky vaccines. It's where vaccines that don't stop a virus and people still get it and they have a vaccine in there body causing the mutation. The Alpha variant was first detected in September 2020. When were vaccines rolled out? There was an OFR8 variant of Covid detected in Singapore in January to March 2020. How many vaccines were even in human trials then? I think you will find those variants came from the countries that was doing the trails with vaccines.. Oh look, south Africa, Brazil, India, and the US all places that took part in trails and all countries variants came from. Coincidence? Nope no such thing Really? Oh. You learn something new everyday. Why have we not seen variants explode along with vaccination rates, then? Surely we must be up to Digamma by now, or even Kappa 2, if vaccination causes variants and people have become part of that in their billions. Alpha - there's less than 40k vaccine trial participants total, and some are post Alpha. How many variants do we have in the UK? Thousands? Must be. Blimey. See your all blind. You will defend your vaccines to your last breath.... well guess what I will defend my kids to my last breath. Somthing horrible is coming and will come to a head soon enough. There is going to be war on the streets. Hope your ready. I am a well as hundreds of thousands of other parents, " Ok noted. But in the meantime, the theory that the main variants are the result of the clinic trials of the vaccines has been debunked. And you should be thankful for that. | |||
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"Not remotely anti vax. Previously vax hesitant for myself until I could understand comparable risks. Could then decide for my own body. Still not comfortable about children being vaccinated until we get some definitive data proving there is no risk to long term/future fertility. Short term risks from vaccine and Covid are small (statistically very small) so is it really necessary to take a leap into the unknown? Can all the Fab science/virology experts explain to me why a vaccine(s) developed to tackle/prevent a respiratory virus has been impacting on some women’s menstrual cycles and is thickening the lining of the Uterus? How are the two separate body systems connected? OK its a good question and this is what I have so far. Plausible link The womb lining is part of the immune system - in fact there are immune cells in almost every part of the body. Immune cells play a role in building up, maintaining and breaking down the lining of the uterus - which thickens to prepare for a pregnancy, and then sheds in the form of a period if the egg is not fertilised. After vaccination, lots of chemical signals which have the potential to affect immune cells are circulating round the body. This could cause the womb lining to shed, and lead to spotting or earlier periods. " Interesting (can you share your source please). So at the moment what we do not know is whether this is a short or long term issue. I have read about some women for whom this has continued for well over 6mths with no sign of stopping. Women with continual bleeds (I know one, a consultant doctor in NHS). I think questions remain as to whether this is impacting fertility and until we know definitively it might be wise not to give the vaccine to pubescent and pre-pubescent children. | |||
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"Absolutely not. 12-15 year olds don't need it what makes you think younger need it? The three posters above me all need locking up along with the leaders and scientists that are even suggesting this."  | |||
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"Loves to please Well said that man !! All above you are talking utter shite Xx" | |||
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" The vaccines ARE the delta variant Thank you for showing your misunderstanding of the science…. The vaccine was designed for the original variant…. Which is why they always show you figures for the South African, Brazilian and delta (Indian) variants Yeah yeah what ever there was no variants until the vaccines came. Go research leaky vaccines. It's where vaccines that don't stop a virus and people still get it and they have a vaccine in there body causing the mutation. The Alpha variant was first detected in September 2020. When were vaccines rolled out? There was an OFR8 variant of Covid detected in Singapore in January to March 2020. How many vaccines were even in human trials then? I think you will find those variants came from the countries that was doing the trails with vaccines.. Oh look, south Africa, Brazil, India, and the US all places that took part in trails and all countries variants came from. Coincidence? Nope no such thing Really? Oh. You learn something new everyday. Why have we not seen variants explode along with vaccination rates, then? Surely we must be up to Digamma by now, or even Kappa 2, if vaccination causes variants and people have become part of that in their billions. Alpha - there's less than 40k vaccine trial participants total, and some are post Alpha. How many variants do we have in the UK? Thousands? Must be. Blimey. See your all blind. You will defend your vaccines to your last breath.... well guess what I will defend my kids to my last breath. Somthing horrible is coming and will come to a head soon enough. There is going to be war on the streets. Hope your ready. I am a well as hundreds of thousands of other parents, Ok noted. But in the meantime, the theory that the main variants are the result of the clinic trials of the vaccines has been debunked. And you should be thankful for that. " The threads about vaccinating kids how about we get back to that instead of going off topic shall we. The science says kids don't need it. When vsccines first came out our leaders said it's not for kids it's for adults. And here we are now. Like I said there's going to be civil war soon. Soon as God forbid reports of kids getting seriously sick or even death from these vaccines. Heads will roll. | |||
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"Not remotely anti vax. Previously vax hesitant for myself until I could understand comparable risks. Could then decide for my own body. Still not comfortable about children being vaccinated until we get some definitive data proving there is no risk to long term/future fertility. Short term risks from vaccine and Covid are small (statistically very small) so is it really necessary to take a leap into the unknown? Can all the Fab science/virology experts explain to me why a vaccine(s) developed to tackle/prevent a respiratory virus has been impacting on some women’s menstrual cycles and is thickening the lining of the Uterus? How are the two separate body systems connected? OK its a good question and this is what I have so far. Plausible link The womb lining is part of the immune system - in fact there are immune cells in almost every part of the body. Immune cells play a role in building up, maintaining and breaking down the lining of the uterus - which thickens to prepare for a pregnancy, and then sheds in the form of a period if the egg is not fertilised. After vaccination, lots of chemical signals which have the potential to affect immune cells are circulating round the body. This could cause the womb lining to shed, and lead to spotting or earlier periods. Interesting (can you share your source please). So at the moment what we do not know is whether this is a short or long term issue. I have read about some women for whom this has continued for well over 6mths with no sign of stopping. Women with continual bleeds (I know one, a consultant doctor in NHS). I think questions remain as to whether this is impacting fertility and until we know definitively it might be wise not to give the vaccine to pubescent and pre-pubescent children. " Sure. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56901353 There is a more detailed set of information in nature. As for kids regardless of this issue I'm not sure the benefits are there unless you are in a specifically vulnerable group. | |||
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"Absolutely not. 12-15 year olds don't need it what makes you think younger need it? The three posters above me all need locking up along with the leaders and scientists that are even suggesting this." I take it that you are qualified to at least double PhD level in a relevant field or are a fully qualified medical doctor, and have been working in the fields of microbiology or virology for twenty to thirty years? And have examined the results of all covid studies in depth? Have been involved in the statistical evaluation of the data from hospitals regarding the breakdown of covid cases and severity of illness by age, demography and environmental factors? Or you are quoting information gleaned from the consolidated global expertise of people such as the above? On what basis do you recommend the summary incarceration of scientists and others, who are investigating what level of danger there is to children, and attempting to ensure protective treatments are available if it becomes apparent that current or future variants of this virus do present a substantial danger? Might I ask what opinion you would be voicing if the scientists instead stated "we absolutely refuse to do any research into preventative treatments for children, Richard on Facetube says that they don't need it" and then in a few months time the next variant proved to be a killer for the under 12s age group? Might you not be then saying something like "why were the scientists not ready to help"?. Would you be happy if I said that you should be locked up for even suggesting that children should not be helped? After all you seem happy enough to advocate imprisonment for the posters above you, merely because they talk about ongoing medical research? | |||
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"FDA rejected recent pfizer boosters " Except they are having them for the elderly and very vulnerable.so not an exact rejection  | |||
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"Absolutely not. 12-15 year olds don't need it what makes you think younger need it? The three posters above me all need locking up along with the leaders and scientists that are even suggesting this. "You agree that those using science and freedom of expression should be locked up? Its like retuning to the dark ages. | |||
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"Can't believed where even considering this. All risk and no benefit to children Can't believe selfish or stupid people who agree" It's a free country and we all have freedom of expression and belief  | |||
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"Can't believed where even considering this. All risk and no benefit to children Can't believe selfish or stupid people who agree It's a free country and we all have freedom of expression and belief "Not for long at the rate people like yourself are handing away our freedoms on a plate. | |||
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"Absolutely not. 12-15 year olds don't need it what makes you think younger need it? The three posters above me all need locking up along with the leaders and scientists that are even suggesting this. I take it that you are qualified to at least double PhD level in a relevant field or are a fully qualified medical doctor, and have been working in the fields of microbiology or virology for twenty to thirty years? And have examined the results of all covid studies in depth? Have been involved in the statistical evaluation of the data from hospitals regarding the breakdown of covid cases and severity of illness by age, demography and environmental factors? Or you are quoting information gleaned from the consolidated global expertise of people such as the above? On what basis do you recommend the summary incarceration of scientists and others, who are investigating what level of danger there is to children, and attempting to ensure protective treatments are available if it becomes apparent that current or future variants of this virus do present a substantial danger? Might I ask what opinion you would be voicing if the scientists instead stated "we absolutely refuse to do any research into preventative treatments for children, Richard on Facetube says that they don't need it" and then in a few months time the next variant proved to be a killer for the under 12s age group? Might you not be then saying something like "why were the scientists not ready to help"?. Would you be happy if I said that you should be locked up for even suggesting that children should not be helped? After all you seem happy enough to advocate imprisonment for the posters above you, merely because they talk about ongoing medical research?"
I'm guessing that they've not read any of the published research, nor even done any statistical analysis | |||
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"Not remotely anti vax. Previously vax hesitant for myself until I could understand comparable risks. Could then decide for my own body. Still not comfortable about children being vaccinated until we get some definitive data proving there is no risk to long term/future fertility. Short term risks from vaccine and Covid are small (statistically very small) so is it really necessary to take a leap into the unknown? Can all the Fab science/virology experts explain to me why a vaccine(s) developed to tackle/prevent a respiratory virus has been impacting on some women’s menstrual cycles and is thickening the lining of the Uterus? How are the two separate body systems connected? OK its a good question and this is what I have so far. Plausible link The womb lining is part of the immune system - in fact there are immune cells in almost every part of the body. Immune cells play a role in building up, maintaining and breaking down the lining of the uterus - which thickens to prepare for a pregnancy, and then sheds in the form of a period if the egg is not fertilised. After vaccination, lots of chemical signals which have the potential to affect immune cells are circulating round the body. This could cause the womb lining to shed, and lead to spotting or earlier periods. Interesting (can you share your source please). So at the moment what we do not know is whether this is a short or long term issue. I have read about some women for whom this has continued for well over 6mths with no sign of stopping. Women with continual bleeds (I know one, a consultant doctor in NHS). I think questions remain as to whether this is impacting fertility and until we know definitively it might be wise not to give the vaccine to pubescent and pre-pubescent children. " All those effects are observed in natural covid infections too and seem to be a lot higher prevalence than from any of the vaccines. We do not know the long term effects of generating covid antibodies whether by natural infection or by vaccination. Every one is going to get antibodies by at least one method. | |||
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"Can't believed where even considering this. All risk and no benefit to children Can't believe selfish or stupid people who agree It's a free country and we all have freedom of expression and belief
Not for long at the rate people like yourself are handing away our freedoms on a plate."Please explain how supporting parents having a choice is a reduction in freedom. And why your freedom seems to depend on imprisoning me for my opinion. | |||
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"Loves to please Well said that man !! All above you are talking utter shite Xxim guesding most who want everyone jabbed dont have young kids themselves,i have a 9 yr old and its a big no from me and my ex,remember when all this started kids aint at high risk and only the vunreble need the jab now its every one from cradle to grave,not trusted gov much since this all started now i dont belive a word they say anymore" Are you in favour for vaccine passports for access to events. The reason for givings kids the vaccine is exactly the same reason as requiring people to be vaccinated to attend events or work in certain situations. They can be carriers of the disease and spread it qmongst the population without being ill themselves. | |||
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" The vaccines ARE the delta variant Thank you for showing your misunderstanding of the science…. The vaccine was designed for the original variant…. Which is why they always show you figures for the South African, Brazilian and delta (Indian) variants Yeah yeah what ever there was no variants until the vaccines came. Go research leaky vaccines. It's where vaccines that don't stop a virus and people still get it and they have a vaccine in there body causing the mutation. The Alpha variant was first detected in September 2020. When were vaccines rolled out? There was an OFR8 variant of Covid detected in Singapore in January to March 2020. How many vaccines were even in human trials then? I think you will find those variants came from the countries that was doing the trails with vaccines.. Oh look, south Africa, Brazil, India, and the US all places that took part in trails and all countries variants came from. Coincidence? Nope no such thing Really? Oh. You learn something new everyday. Why have we not seen variants explode along with vaccination rates, then? Surely we must be up to Digamma by now, or even Kappa 2, if vaccination causes variants and people have become part of that in their billions. Alpha - there's less than 40k vaccine trial participants total, and some are post Alpha. How many variants do we have in the UK? Thousands? Must be. Blimey. See your all blind. You will defend your vaccines to your last breath.... well guess what I will defend my kids to my last breath. Somthing horrible is coming and will come to a head soon enough. There is going to be war on the streets. Hope your ready. I am a well as hundreds of thousands of other parents, Ok noted. But in the meantime, the theory that the main variants are the result of the clinic trials of the vaccines has been debunked. And you should be thankful for that. The threads about vaccinating kids how about we get back to that instead of going off topic shall we. The science says kids don't need it. When vsccines first came out our leaders said it's not for kids it's for adults. And here we are now. Like I said there's going to be civil war soon. Soon as God forbid reports of kids getting seriously sick or even death from these vaccines. Heads will roll." Hate to agree but when a goverment happy to put child's lives, at risk then it's, a sad country we live in. 5 year old should not get it. Oh and before you start a 5year old should not have right to overall parents Or will you agrue if Dr thinks child's competent they can. No vaccine for adults not children That's, what goverment said This all goes back to start giv still believe they can get herd immunity and now happy to risk children. No chance of herd immunity with 5 million adults refused the jab | |||
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"Loves to please Well said that man !! All above you are talking utter shite Xxim guesding most who want everyone jabbed dont have young kids themselves,i have a 9 yr old and its a big no from me and my ex,remember when all this started kids aint at high risk and only the vunreble need the jab now its every one from cradle to grave,not trusted gov much since this all started now i dont belive a word they say anymore Are you in favour for vaccine passports for access to events. The reason for givings kids the vaccine is exactly the same reason as requiring people to be vaccinated to attend events or work in certain situations. They can be carriers of the disease and spread it qmongst the population without being ill themselves." Yes but that's not a reason to give a vaccine. It's about the risk to the patient. You happy for children to get severe complicatios or die to save society. I'm not | |||
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" a PCR test that according to the freedom of information act are being ran at over 40 cycles which mean they can find anything they want and can skew the numbers anytime they want to suit what ever agenda they want. " Ah, yet another amateur molecular biologist posting about things they don't understand. Or perhaps you could explain the difference between cycles and cycle thresholds? | |||
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" Yeah yeah what ever there was no variants until the vaccines came. Go research leaky vaccines. It's where vaccines that don't stop a virus and people still get it and they have a vaccine in there body causing the mutation. The Alpha variant was first detected in September 2020. When were vaccines rolled out? There was an OFR8 variant of Covid detected in Singapore in January to March 2020. How many vaccines were even in human trials then? I think you will find those variants came from the countries that was doing the trails with vaccines.. Oh look, south Africa, Brazil, India, and the US all places that took part in trails and all countries variants came from. Coincidence? Nope no such thing" You really…. Really…. Don’t have a clue about the actual science do you?? Sometimes I feel like saying “when in a hole… stop digging!” Because the more you talk… the more ignorant you show you are on the subject….. The reason why Brazil, South Africa and the UK manage to recognise the variants is that they world leading science labs that can do this ( the alpha variant was first recognised at porton down, if it sounds familiar, which I am guessing it won’t to you, it’s the place that recognised the exact strain of novichuk used to poison the people at Salisbury to link it back to Russia) The Indian strain was also confirmed at porton down….. South Africa and Brazil have good national labs… the us as such… not as good on national government level but the university sector is world leading in research | |||
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"Heard you get ban in here if you child's vaxs. Therefore can't continue debate Heard already someone banned for challenging them. Democracy free speech" Eh? Free speech doesn't include freedom from consequences or right to broadcast. | |||
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"Heard you get ban in here if you child's vaxs. Therefore can't continue debate Heard already someone banned for challenging them. Democracy free speech" In a previous thread, 40 of the 176 posts were yours. How much more free speach do you want? | |||
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" The vaccines ARE the delta variant Thank you for showing your misunderstanding of the science…. The vaccine was designed for the original variant…. Which is why they always show you figures for the South African, Brazilian and delta (Indian) variants Yeah yeah what ever there was no variants until the vaccines came. Go research leaky vaccines. It's where vaccines that don't stop a virus and people still get it and they have a vaccine in there body causing the mutation. The Alpha variant was first detected in September 2020. When were vaccines rolled out? There was an OFR8 variant of Covid detected in Singapore in January to March 2020. How many vaccines were even in human trials then? I think you will find those variants came from the countries that was doing the trails with vaccines.. Oh look, south Africa, Brazil, India, and the US all places that took part in trails and all countries variants came from. Coincidence? Nope no such thing Really? Oh. You learn something new everyday. Why have we not seen variants explode along with vaccination rates, then? Surely we must be up to Digamma by now, or even Kappa 2, if vaccination causes variants and people have become part of that in their billions. Alpha - there's less than 40k vaccine trial participants total, and some are post Alpha. How many variants do we have in the UK? Thousands? Must be. Blimey. See your all blind. You will defend your vaccines to your last breath.... well guess what I will defend my kids to my last breath. Somthing horrible is coming and will come to a head soon enough. There is going to be war on the streets. Hope your ready. I am a well as hundreds of thousands of other parents, Ok noted. But in the meantime, the theory that the main variants are the result of the clinic trials of the vaccines has been debunked. And you should be thankful for that. The threads about vaccinating kids how about we get back to that instead of going off topic shall we. The science says kids don't need it. When vsccines first came out our leaders said it's not for kids it's for adults. And here we are now. Like I said there's going to be civil war soon. Soon as God forbid reports of kids getting seriously sick or even death from these vaccines. Heads will roll." Agree but not with civil war | |||
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"If you want life to get back to normal it's really really simple. Stop getting tested by a PCR test that according to the freedom of information act are being ran at over 40 cycles which mean they can find anything they want and can skew the numbers anytime they want to suit what ever agenda they want. Stop testing and this all ends. If you feel unwell stay home and rest like we've been doing all our lifes." I assume that you are never ever going to take any medical tests for anything, on the basis that if you don't get a diagnosis then you won't be ill? That however bad you feel you will just stay home and rest? Good to know that you won't ever be taking up precious National Health resources that could be better used to help people that do acknowledge modern medical techniques. Oh by the way, maybe when you're talking nonsense about the methods of viral diagnosis, you ought to first go get trained in how the PCR equipment works, understand precisely what "cycles" are, and stop just repeating bollocks that you've heard on facetube. | |||
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" Eh? Free speech doesn't include freedom from consequences or right to broadcast. " Nor does it mean that platforms can't have rules | |||
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"So we're happy to put 5 year old at risk For society. Not in my name. Never been on a demo in my life but would consider now as we have crossed a red line. We protect children in this country not put them at risk..... " We protect children in this country not put them at risk..... | |||
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"Heard you get ban in here if you child's vaxs. Therefore can't continue debate Heard already someone banned for challenging them. Democracy free speech" You don't get banned for debating, how you debate could get you a ban though ,you get one for discussing/ disputing bans so it might be best to stop | |||
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"Heard you get ban in here if you child's vaxs. Therefore can't continue debate Heard already someone banned for challenging them. Democracy free speech In a previous thread, 40 of the 176 posts were yours. How much more free speach do you want?" We protect children in this country not put them at risk..... Do you not agree | |||
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"Heard you get ban in here if you child's vaxs. Therefore can't continue debate Heard already someone banned for challenging them. Democracy free speech You don't get banned for debating, how you debate could get you a ban though ,you get one for discussing/ disputing bans so it might be best to stop "Im going to wash my hair bye | |||
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"Heard you get ban in here if you child's vaxs. Therefore can't continue debate Heard already someone banned for challenging them. Democracy free speech You don't get banned for debating, how you debate could get you a ban though ,you get one for discussing/ disputing bans so it might be best to stop
Im going to wash my hair bye"OK | |||
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"FDA rejected recent pfizer boosters No they didn’t…. They didn’t see the benefit to offering it to anyone under 65 at this point in time! It doesn’t mean they won’t come back to it…. And they did agree with the suggestion for a booster for those over 65 and in jobs for people dealing with them in a primary work setting…. Healthcare for example " My mistake, full approval for the booster has been rejected though. Google is your friend peeps | |||
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"I need to preface this by saying this is VERY EARLY DATA… so bear that in mind… Pfizer have done an early study with 2268 participants … taking a 10 microgram dose of the vaccine (adult get a 30 microgram dose) … they took 2 doses 21 days apart That is the background…. They evaluated antibody response… they were getting the same strong antibody response as in adults…. And the side effect data looks the same as in adults So where children were on the lower side of getting seriously Ill.. it still significantly reduces the chances of getting seriously Ill and potentially ending up being hospitalised So we may start to see a move for emergency use authorisation… Also, Pfizer are going to submit the data to regulatory authorities across the world…… So if we thought there was a potential fight for the 12-17’s……. Let the fight for the 5-11’s begin " Allow me to add here that children from 6 months to less than 5 year olds got a 3mg dose. Full info https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-positive-topline-results About the Phase 1/2/3 Trial in Children The Phase 1/2/3 trial initially enrolled up to 4,500 children ages 6 months to 11 years of age in the United States, Finland, Poland, and Spain from more than 90 clinical trial sites. It was designed to evaluate the safety, tolerability, and immunogenicity of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine on a two-dose schedule (approximately 21 days apart) in three age groups: ages 5 to 11 years; ages 2 to 5 years; and ages 6 months to 2 years. Based on the Phase 1 dose-escalation portion of the trial, children ages 5 to 11 years received two-dose schedule of 10 µg each while children under age 5 received a lower 3 µg dose for each injection in the Phase 2/3 study. The trial enrolled children with or without prior evidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection. | |||
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"FDA rejected recent pfizer boosters No they didn’t…. They didn’t see the benefit to offering it to anyone under 65 at this point in time! It doesn’t mean they won’t come back to it…. And they did agree with the suggestion for a booster for those over 65 and in jobs for people dealing with them in a primary work setting…. Healthcare for example My mistake, full approval for the booster has been rejected though. Google is your friend peeps " Correct. Denmark and Israel have approved third doses for everyone. Which is a different question to first doses for children. | |||
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"Can't believed where even considering this. All risk and no benefit to children Can't believe selfish or stupid people who agree It's a free country and we all have freedom of expression and belief
Not for long at the rate people like yourself are handing away our freedoms on a plate." | |||
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"Can't believed where even considering this. All risk and no benefit to children Can't believe selfish or stupid people who agree It's a free country and we all have freedom of expression and belief
Not for long at the rate people like yourself are handing away our freedoms on a plate.
"Please do explain why I'm a threat to anyone's freedom. I'd be delighted to see what I can reasonably remedy. | |||
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"I can't even begin to convince anyone that I know the science but it's my understanding that it doesn't affect kids that badly (step son had it, wouldn't have even known), I assume the jab is more because children tend to mingle more, especially now the bubbles have ended and they might be very good carriers of covid and if they have the jab they are protecting those around them (and themselves obviously), like our Jabs it doesn't stop us getting or carrying it but it's milder. That's my take on it, two of my kids are adults now and my youngest is 16. Myself and his dad are all for him having it but some of his friends felt a bit rough after having it so think he is a little scared about having it at the moment, doughnut and his ex have decided that their kids (13 and 14) can have it if they want it. However, if I had little ones, I am not too sure how I would stand, sure they have had every jab going but they had been around for years and years, I would have to seriously think (and understand science better lol). Danish x" Obviously the life of my 16 year old would be the same as my hypothetical 5 year old, what I meant was, my son can make his own mind up if he would like it, we haven't said "you must have it" we've just said "if you want it, we will get you booked in". With a 5 year old unable to make that decision for themselves it's a lot harder, while I value both their lives, I also understand my son is of an age where he does get a say now, obviously I'd like him to have it but if be is seriously worried about having it for any reason, I wouldnt force it on him. Danish xx | |||
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"Not remotely anti vax. Previously vax hesitant for myself until I could understand comparable risks. Could then decide for my own body. Still not comfortable about children being vaccinated until we get some definitive data proving there is no risk to long term/future fertility. Short term risks from vaccine and Covid are small (statistically very small) so is it really necessary to take a leap into the unknown? Can all the Fab science/virology experts explain to me why a vaccine(s) developed to tackle/prevent a respiratory virus has been impacting on some women’s menstrual cycles and is thickening the lining of the Uterus? How are the two separate body systems connected? OK its a good question and this is what I have so far. Plausible link The womb lining is part of the immune system - in fact there are immune cells in almost every part of the body. Immune cells play a role in building up, maintaining and breaking down the lining of the uterus - which thickens to prepare for a pregnancy, and then sheds in the form of a period if the egg is not fertilised. After vaccination, lots of chemical signals which have the potential to affect immune cells are circulating round the body. This could cause the womb lining to shed, and lead to spotting or earlier periods. Interesting (can you share your source please). So at the moment what we do not know is whether this is a short or long term issue. I have read about some women for whom this has continued for well over 6mths with no sign of stopping. Women with continual bleeds (I know one, a consultant doctor in NHS). I think questions remain as to whether this is impacting fertility and until we know definitively it might be wise not to give the vaccine to pubescent and pre-pubescent children. " The same is happening to a nurse I know. Hasn’t had a proper cycle since two weeks after the second vax. | |||
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"I hope we can agree that everyone wants to put a child's best interests at the heart of this. We just disagree on how to do this. I'm also going to assume if covid was prevalent in kids and the vaccine was risk free most would be pro vaccine. And if there was absolutely no covid cases in kids and tej vaccines looked super risky no one would advocate vaccines. That is no one is pro or anti vaccine from a purely zealous pov. If agreed then we need to ask ourselves 1) when do I cross from pro to anti. What is the covid risk I need to see versus the vaccine risk. 2) how do I show that these definitions have been met. Now both these are fuzzy answers as there's too many risks to weight up, let alone measure. And data is never going to give us perfect insight. The jvci view kinda reflects this as with kids we are deep in the grey fuzzy area. And the risk seems more in the unknowns eg the long risk of covid v long risk of vaccines. " No vaccine or medicine is risk free. Just have a read if the potential side effects of paracetamol which most people take without a second thought. | |||
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"I hope we can agree that everyone wants to put a child's best interests at the heart of this. We just disagree on how to do this. I'm also going to assume if covid was prevalent in kids and the vaccine was risk free most would be pro vaccine. And if there was absolutely no covid cases in kids and tej vaccines looked super risky no one would advocate vaccines. That is no one is pro or anti vaccine from a purely zealous pov. If agreed then we need to ask ourselves 1) when do I cross from pro to anti. What is the covid risk I need to see versus the vaccine risk. 2) how do I show that these definitions have been met. Now both these are fuzzy answers as there's too many risks to weight up, let alone measure. And data is never going to give us perfect insight. The jvci view kinda reflects this as with kids we are deep in the grey fuzzy area. And the risk seems more in the unknowns eg the long risk of covid v long risk of vaccines. " A very reasoned and fair view, imo There has been some dangerous and bizarre comments from both extremes on this thread. | |||
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"I can't even begin to convince anyone that I know the science but it's my understanding that it doesn't affect kids that badly (step son had it, wouldn't have even known), I assume the jab is more because children tend to mingle more, especially now the bubbles have ended and they might be very good carriers of covid and if they have the jab they are protecting those around them (and themselves obviously), like our Jabs it doesn't stop us getting or carrying it but it's milder. That's my take on it, two of my kids are adults now and my youngest is 16. Myself and his dad are all for him having it but some of his friends felt a bit rough after having it so think he is a little scared about having it at the moment, doughnut and his ex have decided that their kids (13 and 14) can have it if they want it. However, if I had little ones, I am not too sure how I would stand, sure they have had every jab going but they had been around for years and years, I would have to seriously think (and understand science better lol). Danish x Obviously the life of my 16 year old would be the same as my hypothetical 5 year old, what I meant was, my son can make his own mind up if he would like it, we haven't said "you must have it" we've just said "if you want it, we will get you booked in". With a 5 year old unable to make that decision for themselves it's a lot harder, while I value both their lives, I also understand my son is of an age where he does get a say now, obviously I'd like him to have it but if be is seriously worried about having it for any reason, I wouldnt force it on him. Danish xx" Don't forget that "they" are helping your 16 year old to make his decision, not with clinical risks and benefits but with the coercive threats that if he does not get it... He may not be allowed to travel to places and do things in the autumn and winter. If they are one of the growing number who have had covid.. Clinically do they even need to have a jab? | |||
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"I can't even begin to convince anyone that I know the science but it's my understanding that it doesn't affect kids that badly (step son had it, wouldn't have even known), I assume the jab is more because children tend to mingle more, especially now the bubbles have ended and they might be very good carriers of covid and if they have the jab they are protecting those around them (and themselves obviously), like our Jabs it doesn't stop us getting or carrying it but it's milder. That's my take on it, two of my kids are adults now and my youngest is 16. Myself and his dad are all for him having it but some of his friends felt a bit rough after having it so think he is a little scared about having it at the moment, doughnut and his ex have decided that their kids (13 and 14) can have it if they want it. However, if I had little ones, I am not too sure how I would stand, sure they have had every jab going but they had been around for years and years, I would have to seriously think (and understand science better lol). Danish x Obviously the life of my 16 year old would be the same as my hypothetical 5 year old, what I meant was, my son can make his own mind up if he would like it, we haven't said "you must have it" we've just said "if you want it, we will get you booked in". With a 5 year old unable to make that decision for themselves it's a lot harder, while I value both their lives, I also understand my son is of an age where he does get a say now, obviously I'd like him to have it but if be is seriously worried about having it for any reason, I wouldnt force it on him. Danish xx Don't forget that "they" are helping your 16 year old to make his decision, not with clinical risks and benefits but with the coercive threats that if he does not get it... He may not be allowed to travel to places and do things in the autumn and winter. If they are one of the growing number who have had covid.. Clinically do they even need to have a jab? " Sorry only using yours as an example.. Let's change it to a generic 15 / 16 year old instead. | |||
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"Yet another thread of two sets of people who are regurgitating shit they have read and using it to fight each other with... Smh" That’s all the virus forum is about unfortunately. People disputing facts | |||
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"Not remotely anti vax. Previously vax hesitant for myself until I could understand comparable risks. Could then decide for my own body. Still not comfortable about children being vaccinated until we get some definitive data proving there is no risk to long term/future fertility. Short term risks from vaccine and Covid are small (statistically very small) so is it really necessary to take a leap into the unknown? Can all the Fab science/virology experts explain to me why a vaccine(s) developed to tackle/prevent a respiratory virus has been impacting on some women’s menstrual cycles and is thickening the lining of the Uterus? How are the two separate body systems connected? OK its a good question and this is what I have so far. Plausible link The womb lining is part of the immune system - in fact there are immune cells in almost every part of the body. Immune cells play a role in building up, maintaining and breaking down the lining of the uterus - which thickens to prepare for a pregnancy, and then sheds in the form of a period if the egg is not fertilised. After vaccination, lots of chemical signals which have the potential to affect immune cells are circulating round the body. This could cause the womb lining to shed, and lead to spotting or earlier periods. Interesting (can you share your source please). So at the moment what we do not know is whether this is a short or long term issue. I have read about some women for whom this has continued for well over 6mths with no sign of stopping. Women with continual bleeds (I know one, a consultant doctor in NHS). I think questions remain as to whether this is impacting fertility and until we know definitively it might be wise not to give the vaccine to pubescent and pre-pubescent children. All those effects are observed in natural covid infections too and seem to be a lot higher prevalence than from any of the vaccines. We do not know the long term effects of generating covid antibodies whether by natural infection or by vaccination. Every one is going to get antibodies by at least one method." Yes understood, though confess news to me that Covid causing same issues, where did you read that please? (So much info not enough time). I think part of the reticence and concern by many parents is that by having your child vaccinated you are definitely exposing them to the risks of the vaccine(s) (no matter how small). Whereas the child is only exposed to the risks of Covid if they catch it. Despite the prevailing rhetoric there is no certainty that everyone will catch Covid and vaccination in adults is supposed to be reducing the likelihood. | |||
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" Yeah yeah what ever there was no variants until the vaccines came. Go research leaky vaccines. It's where vaccines that don't stop a virus and people still get it and they have a vaccine in there body causing the mutation. The Alpha variant was first detected in September 2020. When were vaccines rolled out? There was an OFR8 variant of Covid detected in Singapore in January to March 2020. How many vaccines were even in human trials then? I think you will find those variants came from the countries that was doing the trails with vaccines.. Oh look, south Africa, Brazil, India, and the US all places that took part in trails and all countries variants came from. Coincidence? Nope no such thing You really…. Really…. Don’t have a clue about the actual science do you?? Sometimes I feel like saying “when in a hole… stop digging!” Because the more you talk… the more ignorant you show you are on the subject….. The reason why Brazil, South Africa and the UK manage to recognise the variants is that they world leading science labs that can do this ( the alpha variant was first recognised at porton down, if it sounds familiar, which I am guessing it won’t to you, it’s the place that recognised the exact strain of novichuk used to poison the people at Salisbury to link it back to Russia) The Indian strain was also confirmed at porton down….. South Africa and Brazil have good national labs… the us as such… not as good on national government level but the university sector is world leading in research " If there is ever a lapse of security at Porton Down then God help us. What they hold there makes Covid look like a runny nose! | |||
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"I hope we can agree that everyone wants to put a child's best interests at the heart of this. We just disagree on how to do this. I'm also going to assume if covid was prevalent in kids and the vaccine was risk free most would be pro vaccine. And if there was absolutely no covid cases in kids and tej vaccines looked super risky no one would advocate vaccines. That is no one is pro or anti vaccine from a purely zealous pov. If agreed then we need to ask ourselves 1) when do I cross from pro to anti. What is the covid risk I need to see versus the vaccine risk. 2) how do I show that these definitions have been met. Now both these are fuzzy answers as there's too many risks to weight up, let alone measure. And data is never going to give us perfect insight. The jvci view kinda reflects this as with kids we are deep in the grey fuzzy area. And the risk seems more in the unknowns eg the long risk of covid v long risk of vaccines. " Now don’t you come in here being all reasonable and spouting that bloody common sense  | |||
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"While Children are at a lower risk from Covid. The more cases of the virus out there the greater the risk it becomes. There are Children being treated in hospital for Covid so if only a fraction of a percent of kids get hospitalised that still represents a hundreds of Children. The vaccines if approved for use in Children then rolling them out would help prevent this. We vaccinate Children all the time they're probably the most vaccinated age group in general. The scaremongering based off false online information around vaccines is deeply worrying. It shows how any issue can have seeds planted that can disrupt society and cause serious harm." What is the scaremongering found online? Always see people spout this but never see it for myself. I think people just have genuine concern more than scaremongering from online info | |||
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"Yet another thread of two sets of people who are regurgitating shit they have read and using it to fight each other with... Smh" Hey there’s a few of us who refuse to be part of this myopic tribalist nonsense and just want a sensible grown up discussion  | |||
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" The vaccines ARE the delta variant Thank you for showing your misunderstanding of the science…. The vaccine was designed for the original variant…. Which is why they always show you figures for the South African, Brazilian and delta (Indian) variants Yeah yeah what ever there was no variants until the vaccines came. Go research leaky vaccines. It's where vaccines that don't stop a virus and people still get it and they have a vaccine in there body causing the mutation. The Alpha variant was first detected in September 2020. When were vaccines rolled out? There was an OFR8 variant of Covid detected in Singapore in January to March 2020. How many vaccines were even in human trials then? I think you will find those variants came from the countries that was doing the trails with vaccines.. Oh look, south Africa, Brazil, India, and the US all places that took part in trails and all countries variants came from. Coincidence? Nope no such thing Really? Oh. You learn something new everyday. Why have we not seen variants explode along with vaccination rates, then? Surely we must be up to Digamma by now, or even Kappa 2, if vaccination causes variants and people have become part of that in their billions. Alpha - there's less than 40k vaccine trial participants total, and some are post Alpha. How many variants do we have in the UK? Thousands? Must be. Blimey. See your all blind. You will defend your vaccines to your last breath.... well guess what I will defend my kids to my last breath. Somthing horrible is coming and will come to a head soon enough. There is going to be war on the streets. Hope your ready. I am a well as hundreds of thousands of other parents, " | |||
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"We protect children in this country not put them at risk..... No medical reason for a, 5 year old to have a, vaccination" | |||
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"While Children are at a lower risk from Covid. The more cases of the virus out there the greater the risk it becomes. There are Children being treated in hospital for Covid so if only a fraction of a percent of kids get hospitalised that still represents a hundreds of Children. The vaccines if approved for use in Children then rolling them out would help prevent this. We vaccinate Children all the time they're probably the most vaccinated age group in general. The scaremongering based off false online information around vaccines is deeply worrying. It shows how any issue can have seeds planted that can disrupt society and cause serious harm." What scaremongering is it that I, as a parent, am supposed to have been convinced by? Why are my concerns invalid? You say “the more cases of the virus out there the greater the risk it becomes” yep true but why are there so many cases when we have such huge vaccine coverage in the UK? Do the vaccines work? If so (I think they do BTW) then with all those adults protected why do we need to take a risk on kids? Any long term data to inform the decision (like there is with all other vaccines (don’t answer that it is rhetorical - there can’t be long term data obviously). I think we are becoming dangerously cavalier. Adults vaccination levels are huge. Hospitalisation and death rates are much smaller, so why not hold off on kids until we know more as there are questions about longterm impacts on fertility and therefore maybe not wise (yet) to vaccinate those who are pubescent or pre-pubescent. Why the rush? | |||
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"Absolutely not. 12-15 year olds don't need it what makes you think younger need it? The three posters above me all need locking up along with the leaders and scientists that are even suggesting this." You are JohnJ21 and I claim my £5.
Kids have been getting vaccines for decades to help with various diseases. If medical experts (you know those people who have spent years studying vaccines) advise that the benefits of kids getting a vaccine outweigh the risks then that's good enough for me. (I'm not a parent btw but if I was then I'd happily follow the science). | |||
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"While Children are at a lower risk from Covid. The more cases of the virus out there the greater the risk it becomes. There are Children being treated in hospital for Covid so if only a fraction of a percent of kids get hospitalised that still represents a hundreds of Children. The vaccines if approved for use in Children then rolling them out would help prevent this. We vaccinate Children all the time they're probably the most vaccinated age group in general. The scaremongering based off false online information around vaccines is deeply worrying. It shows how any issue can have seeds planted that can disrupt society and cause serious harm. What scaremongering is it that I, as a parent, am supposed to have been convinced by? Why are my concerns invalid? You say “the more cases of the virus out there the greater the risk it becomes” yep true but why are there so many cases when we have such huge vaccine coverage in the UK? Do the vaccines work? If so (I think they do BTW) then with all those adults protected why do we need to take a risk on kids? Any long term data to inform the decision (like there is with all other vaccines (don’t answer that it is rhetorical - there can’t be long term data obviously). I think we are becoming dangerously cavalier. Adults vaccination levels are huge. Hospitalisation and death rates are much smaller, so why not hold off on kids until we know more as there are questions about longterm impacts on fertility and therefore maybe not wise (yet) to vaccinate those who are pubescent or pre-pubescent. Why the rush?" There's no evidence at all about the vaccines affecting fertility at all. Sage have said that on a number of occasions. Also yes we have a lot of people vaccinated, however we still have 17 Million unvaccinated people. The UK roughly has a population of around 65M and only around 42M are fully vaccinated, the number rises to 48M when counting those with 1 jab. So the number of unvaccinated people still allows for a high daily case load (The vast majority of that group haven't been offered a vaccine yet) Also taking into account vaccines at this time in most cases prevent death and hospitalisations, it doesn't rule out catching the virus and having a more milder illness. Definitely don't rush, but with more evidence showing a growing level of safety, it should hopefully ease worry in the long term. I understand medical concerns, I myself have a deep worry and phobia of medical procedures and operations. | |||
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"Absolutely not. 12-15 year olds don't need it what makes you think younger need it? The three posters above me all need locking up along with the leaders and scientists that are even suggesting this. You are JohnJ21 and I claim my £5.
Kids have been getting vaccines for decades to help with various diseases. If medical experts (you know those people who have spent years studying vaccines) advise that the benefits of kids getting a vaccine outweigh the risks then that's good enough for me. (I'm not a parent btw but if I was then I'd happily follow the science)."???? | |||
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"Absolutely not. 12-15 year olds don't need it what makes you think younger need it? The three posters above me all need locking up along with the leaders and scientists that are even suggesting this." | |||
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"Absolutely not. 12-15 year olds don't need it what makes you think younger need it? The three posters above me all need locking up along with the leaders and scientists that are even suggesting this. You are JohnJ21 and I claim my £5.
Kids have been getting vaccines for decades to help with various diseases. If medical experts (you know those people who have spent years studying vaccines) advise that the benefits of kids getting a vaccine outweigh the risks then that's good enough for me. (I'm not a parent btw but if I was then I'd happily follow the science)."Regardless of which side of the argument you are on (or indeed if you take a less tribalist middle ground and just seek facts and unbiased discussion) I’m afraid when you said “I’m not a parent” it pretty much excluded you from having a valid opinion as you have no skin in the game and are not the person who has to decide on health matters for a child. | |||
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"Absolutely not. 12-15 year olds don't need it what makes you think younger need it? The three posters above me all need locking up along with the leaders and scientists that are even suggesting this." People like that don't care about the safety of others, though they say the do They just want to protect themselves | |||
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"While Children are at a lower risk from Covid. The more cases of the virus out there the greater the risk it becomes. There are Children being treated in hospital for Covid so if only a fraction of a percent of kids get hospitalised that still represents a hundreds of Children. The vaccines if approved for use in Children then rolling them out would help prevent this. We vaccinate Children all the time they're probably the most vaccinated age group in general. The scaremongering based off false online information around vaccines is deeply worrying. It shows how any issue can have seeds planted that can disrupt society and cause serious harm. What scaremongering is it that I, as a parent, am supposed to have been convinced by? Why are my concerns invalid? You say “the more cases of the virus out there the greater the risk it becomes” yep true but why are there so many cases when we have such huge vaccine coverage in the UK? Do the vaccines work? If so (I think they do BTW) then with all those adults protected why do we need to take a risk on kids? Any long term data to inform the decision (like there is with all other vaccines (don’t answer that it is rhetorical - there can’t be long term data obviously). I think we are becoming dangerously cavalier. Adults vaccination levels are huge. Hospitalisation and death rates are much smaller, so why not hold off on kids until we know more as there are questions about longterm impacts on fertility and therefore maybe not wise (yet) to vaccinate those who are pubescent or pre-pubescent. Why the rush? There's no evidence at all about the vaccines affecting fertility at all. Sage have said that on a number of occasions. Also yes we have a lot of people vaccinated, however we still have 17 Million unvaccinated people. The UK roughly has a population of around 65M and only around 42M are fully vaccinated, the number rises to 48M when counting those with 1 jab. So the number of unvaccinated people still allows for a high daily case load (The vast majority of that group haven't been offered a vaccine yet) Also taking into account vaccines at this time in most cases prevent death and hospitalisations, it doesn't rule out catching the virus and having a more milder illness. Definitely don't rush, but with more evidence showing a growing level of safety, it should hopefully ease worry in the long term. I understand medical concerns, I myself have a deep worry and phobia of medical procedures and operations. " Hmmm your first point... “There's no evidence at all about the vaccines affecting fertility at all. Sage have said that on a number of occasions.” That isn’t quite right. Short term they have not seen anything to indicate. Problem is that there is no way to determine the birth rate on a short term scale. The true answer is, we don’t know but what we do know is some women have had their menstrual cycles completely messed with and seen thickening of the wall of the uterus. It may well be fine but what is not fine is to take a cavalier attitude to this and sweep under the carpet. This needs proper research to ensure we are not storing up a significant problem for the next generation. I think it is totally right that we ask those questions. | |||
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"While Children are at a lower risk from Covid. The more cases of the virus out there the greater the risk it becomes. There are Children being treated in hospital for Covid so if only a fraction of a percent of kids get hospitalised that still represents a hundreds of Children. The vaccines if approved for use in Children then rolling them out would help prevent this. We vaccinate Children all the time they're probably the most vaccinated age group in general. The scaremongering based off false online information around vaccines is deeply worrying. It shows how any issue can have seeds planted that can disrupt society and cause serious harm. What scaremongering is it that I, as a parent, am supposed to have been convinced by? Why are my concerns invalid? You say “the more cases of the virus out there the greater the risk it becomes” yep true but why are there so many cases when we have such huge vaccine coverage in the UK? Do the vaccines work? If so (I think they do BTW) then with all those adults protected why do we need to take a risk on kids? Any long term data to inform the decision (like there is with all other vaccines (don’t answer that it is rhetorical - there can’t be long term data obviously). I think we are becoming dangerously cavalier. Adults vaccination levels are huge. Hospitalisation and death rates are much smaller, so why not hold off on kids until we know more as there are questions about longterm impacts on fertility and therefore maybe not wise (yet) to vaccinate those who are pubescent or pre-pubescent. Why the rush? There's no evidence at all about the vaccines affecting fertility at all. Sage have said that on a number of occasions. Also yes we have a lot of people vaccinated, however we still have 17 Million unvaccinated people. The UK roughly has a population of around 65M and only around 42M are fully vaccinated, the number rises to 48M when counting those with 1 jab. So the number of unvaccinated people still allows for a high daily case load (The vast majority of that group haven't been offered a vaccine yet) Also taking into account vaccines at this time in most cases prevent death and hospitalisations, it doesn't rule out catching the virus and having a more milder illness. Definitely don't rush, but with more evidence showing a growing level of safety, it should hopefully ease worry in the long term. I understand medical concerns, I myself have a deep worry and phobia of medical procedures and operations. Hmmm your first point... “There's no evidence at all about the vaccines affecting fertility at all. Sage have said that on a number of occasions.” That isn’t quite right. Short term they have not seen anything to indicate. Problem is that there is no way to determine the birth rate on a short term scale. The true answer is, we don’t know but what we do know is some women have had their menstrual cycles completely messed with and seen thickening of the wall of the uterus. It may well be fine but what is not fine is to take a cavalier attitude to this and sweep under the carpet. This needs proper research to ensure we are not storing up a significant problem for the next generation. I think it is totally right that we ask those questions." Why is it as well that it seems OK to just skip over it because it's womens / girls health? Imagine for one moment 30000 (or whatever the number is) boys started pissing blood or had unexplained swollen testicles...one might imagine there would be a more urgent response | |||
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"Absolutely not. 12-15 year olds don't need it what makes you think younger need it? The three posters above me all need locking up along with the leaders and scientists that are even suggesting this. You are JohnJ21 and I claim my £5.
Kids have been getting vaccines for decades to help with various diseases. If medical experts (you know those people who have spent years studying vaccines) advise that the benefits of kids getting a vaccine outweigh the risks then that's good enough for me. (I'm not a parent btw but if I was then I'd happily follow the science).
Regardless of which side of the argument you are on (or indeed if you take a less tribalist middle ground and just seek facts and unbiased discussion) I’m afraid when you said “I’m not a parent” it pretty much excluded you from having a valid opinion as you have no skin in the game and are not the person who has to decide on health matters for a child."Less tribalist middle ground? Sorry but there are some very extreme views on here which aren't backed up by any fact based evidence at all. In fact I've not seen any links to any sort of evidence, never mind fact based. It's basically thread after thread from the same old posters raising unsubstantiated "claims" (it's about as polite as I can put) and nobody is getting pulled about them at all. 
Thanks for the put-down about having no children. Condescending much? | |||
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"Absolutely not. 12-15 year olds don't need it what makes you think younger need it? The three posters above me all need locking up along with the leaders and scientists that are even suggesting this. People like that don't care about the safety of others, though they say the do They just want to protect themselves" I think you'll find the truth is completely the opposite of what you're suggesting. | |||
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"Absolutely not. 12-15 year olds don't need it what makes you think younger need it? The three posters above me all need locking up along with the leaders and scientists that are even suggesting this. Why do you say that….. although we know the risk in children being Seriously ill with covid is small… the delta variant is still 5 times more serious to children than both the original and the alpha (Kent) variant….. Plus if we know that people vaccinated are 5 times more likely to not catch covid than those unvaccinated in the first place… doesn’t it mean that for example they are less of a risk to parents, to teachers, to grandparents ect…. Also… would it not help in nurseries, and thus getting people back to work… Just thinking out loud on the different ways it could have normality But I think for you to say they need locking up for disagreeing with you is bang out of order! " Locking up is too strong but I don’t advocate Cov vacation for children. As I understand it the risk of serious harm from Covid to children especially younger ones, is not small rather it is virtually zero. Risk of harm from the vaccine may well be higher than the risk from Covid in the youth. With global limits to vaccine supplies it is far better in many ways, including ethically, if right now the supplies go to adults elsewhere in the world!! | |||
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" The vaccines ARE the delta variant " And you know that scientifically? Give your head a wobble man  | |||
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"Absolutely not. 12-15 year olds don't need it what makes you think younger need it? The three posters above me all need locking up along with the leaders and scientists that are even suggesting this." Our child was seriously ill with covid , something no parent ever wants to see. And we were lucky they made it through. Our other 3 kids will have the vaccine (their choice) as they saw the pain it caused their sister. Do not tell me I need locking up for allowing my kids to have it. | |||
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"If young kids aren't at risk them explain the five positive cases in my daughter's class alone this week! Let alone the total in her school full stop. She has to lateral flow twice a week already because of the case numbers in our town and being asthmatic she herself has said if she can have the vaccine she wants it as she doesn't want to run the risk of her getting a bad case of it." I hope she's ok | |||
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"No one is going anywhere near my kids with that jab, I do not understand the mad rush to jab kids, I am hear to protect them not them protect me 1 death is enough to stopped the roll out all never mind 3 or 5 or how many it is, oh and please can someone tell me why we have seen a rise in cases with jabbed people as opposed to last year when there was no jabbed people, just a thought." Is anyone just done even talking to people like this? Covid kills millions of people, but stop the vaccine saving 100,000s if it ever hurts one person? What kinda logic is that? And more vaccinated people infected then before the vaccine? Because there was no vaccinated people to get infected. Look at the hospital rates. We were at 1000 deaths a day with strict lockdown measures, now we’re at 100ish a day with basically no rules I just can’t deal with these types of people anymore. It’s like trying to teach fractions to someone that doesn’t understand numbers yet. It’s just pointless | |||
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" please can someone tell me why we have seen a rise in cases with jabbed people as opposed to last year when there was no jabbed people, just a thought." Why are there more cases in jabbed people compared to a time when no one had been jabbed? Cmon man. Think for one second what you're asking here. | |||
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"If young kids aren't at risk them explain the five positive cases in my daughter's class alone this week! Let alone the total in her school full stop. She has to lateral flow twice a week already because of the case numbers in our town and being asthmatic she herself has said if she can have the vaccine she wants it as she doesn't want to run the risk of her getting a bad case of it." Most importantly I hope your daughter and school mates are ok. Children being vaccinated won’t stop them catching Covid. In fact what will happen is there will be an increased number of asymptomatic children who stay at school none the wiser. Counter intuitively that actually increases the risk. If they are testing regularly (only senior schools AFAIK) then they will still need to isolate at home so will still have their education disrupted. | |||
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"I think he meant a child's life who medical don't need a vaccine therefore why put a child at risk. Therefore let's test your numeracy skills, Why vaccinate a child when the risk of covid is less than vaccination. Less risk should be answer therefore child dies not get vaccinated We protect children in this country not put them at risk..... " Why do you believe that the risk of vaccination is higher than the risk of Covid? Where did you get that information? | |||
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"I think he meant a child's life who medical don't need a vaccine therefore why put a child at risk. Therefore let's test your numeracy skills, Why vaccinate a child when the risk of covid is less than vaccination. Less risk should be answer therefore child dies not get vaccinated We protect children in this country not put them at risk..... " Is it safer for a child to get covid unvaccinated then it is to get vaccinated? Where’s your source | |||
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"I think he meant a child's life who medical don't need a vaccine therefore why put a child at risk. Therefore let's test your numeracy skills, Why vaccinate a child when the risk of covid is less than vaccination. Less risk should be answer therefore child dies not get vaccinated We protect children in this country not put them at risk..... " Are numeracy skills linked to literacy skills? | |||
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"I think he meant a child's life who medical don't need a vaccine therefore why put a child at risk. Therefore let's test your numeracy skills, Why vaccinate a child when the risk of covid is less than vaccination. Less risk should be answer therefore child dies not get vaccinated We protect children in this country not put them at risk..... Is it safer for a child to get covid unvaccinated then it is to get vaccinated? Where’s your source " Obviously he needs to answer cos not sure where he going with that but I will add this (again) The statistical short term risks of Covid are higher than the short term risks of Vaccine(s). But it is not a 1 to 1 comparison because you are only exposed to the risks of Covid if you catch it and the majority of children haven’t. While you are definitely exposed to risks of vaccine if you have it. That, along with understandable lack of long term data on fertility, are why some parents are concerned. I think that is fair enough. | |||
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"I think he meant a child's life who medical don't need a vaccine therefore why put a child at risk. Therefore let's test your numeracy skills, Why vaccinate a child when the risk of covid is less than vaccination. Less risk should be answer therefore child dies not get vaccinated We protect children in this country not put them at risk..... Is it safer for a child to get covid unvaccinated then it is to get vaccinated? Where’s your source Obviously he needs to answer cos not sure where he going with that but I will add this (again) The statistical short term risks of Covid are higher than the short term risks of Vaccine(s). But it is not a 1 to 1 comparison because you are only exposed to the risks of Covid if you catch it and the majority of children haven’t. While you are definitely exposed to risks of vaccine if you have it. That, along with understandable lack of long term data on fertility, are why some parents are concerned. I think that is fair enough." I understand the long term concerns. How do you suggest that any child might avoid catching Covid? | |||
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"I think he meant a child's life who medical don't need a vaccine therefore why put a child at risk. Therefore let's test your numeracy skills, Why vaccinate a child when the risk of covid is less than vaccination. Less risk should be answer therefore child dies not get vaccinated We protect children in this country not put them at risk..... Is it safer for a child to get covid unvaccinated then it is to get vaccinated? Where’s your source Obviously he needs to answer cos not sure where he going with that but I will add this (again) The statistical short term risks of Covid are higher than the short term risks of Vaccine(s). But it is not a 1 to 1 comparison because you are only exposed to the risks of Covid if you catch it and the majority of children haven’t. While you are definitely exposed to risks of vaccine if you have it. That, along with understandable lack of long term data on fertility, are why some parents are concerned. I think that is fair enough. I understand the long term concerns. How do you suggest that any child might avoid catching Covid? " Why do you assert that all children will catch Covid? No other disease in known history has had a 100% infection rate. | |||
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"I think he meant a child's life who medical don't need a vaccine therefore why put a child at risk. Therefore let's test your numeracy skills, Why vaccinate a child when the risk of covid is less than vaccination. Less risk should be answer therefore child dies not get vaccinated We protect children in this country not put them at risk..... Are numeracy skills linked to literacy skills? " Know!!! | |||
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"No one suggested kids avoiding catching covid as goverment say no danger to them. Obviously gov must be right" Still waiting on your source about the vaccine being more dangerous than covid for kids | |||
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"I think he meant a child's life who medical don't need a vaccine therefore why put a child at risk. Therefore let's test your numeracy skills, Why vaccinate a child when the risk of covid is less than vaccination. Less risk should be answer therefore child dies not get vaccinated We protect children in this country not put them at risk..... Is it safer for a child to get covid unvaccinated then it is to get vaccinated? Where’s your source Obviously he needs to answer cos not sure where he going with that but I will add this (again) The statistical short term risks of Covid are higher than the short term risks of Vaccine(s). But it is not a 1 to 1 comparison because you are only exposed to the risks of Covid if you catch it and the majority of children haven’t. While you are definitely exposed to risks of vaccine if you have it. That, along with understandable lack of long term data on fertility, are why some parents are concerned. I think that is fair enough." I take on board what you said but pretty much everyone is going to get covid eventually now we have opened up completely especially school children who are all unvaccinated. You are right about not having long term data on the effects of vaccination but equally we have no idea of the longterm effects of covid on fertility or other things. | |||
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"I think he meant a child's life who medical don't need a vaccine therefore why put a child at risk. Therefore let's test your numeracy skills, Why vaccinate a child when the risk of covid is less than vaccination. Less risk should be answer therefore child dies not get vaccinated We protect children in this country not put them at risk..... Are numeracy skills linked to literacy skills? " They both appear to be inversely proportional to the amount of YouTube watched, and so are scientific facts. | |||
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"I think he meant a child's life who medical don't need a vaccine therefore why put a child at risk. Therefore let's test your numeracy skills, Why vaccinate a child when the risk of covid is less than vaccination. Less risk should be answer therefore child dies not get vaccinated We protect children in this country not put them at risk..... Is it safer for a child to get covid unvaccinated then it is to get vaccinated? Where’s your source Obviously he needs to answer cos not sure where he going with that but I will add this (again) The statistical short term risks of Covid are higher than the short term risks of Vaccine(s). But it is not a 1 to 1 comparison because you are only exposed to the risks of Covid if you catch it and the majority of children haven’t. While you are definitely exposed to risks of vaccine if you have it. That, along with understandable lack of long term data on fertility, are why some parents are concerned. I think that is fair enough. I understand the long term concerns. How do you suggest that any child might avoid catching Covid? Why do you assert that all children will catch Covid? No other disease in known history has had a 100% infection rate." I think with such high infection rate, and no way to know who will or won’t catch it, plus the fact that covid is never going away, you can’t factor in “they might not get it” because it’s just applicable That’s not to say that everyone 100% will get it. But covid is about 6x more transmissible than the common cold. How many kids do you know that never caught a cold? | |||
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"I think he meant a child's life who medical don't need a vaccine therefore why put a child at risk. Therefore let's test your numeracy skills, Why vaccinate a child when the risk of covid is less than vaccination. Less risk should be answer therefore child dies not get vaccinated We protect children in this country not put them at risk..... Is it safer for a child to get covid unvaccinated then it is to get vaccinated? Where’s your source Obviously he needs to answer cos not sure where he going with that but I will add this (again) The statistical short term risks of Covid are higher than the short term risks of Vaccine(s). But it is not a 1 to 1 comparison because you are only exposed to the risks of Covid if you catch it and the majority of children haven’t. While you are definitely exposed to risks of vaccine if you have it. That, along with understandable lack of long term data on fertility, are why some parents are concerned. I think that is fair enough. I understand the long term concerns. How do you suggest that any child might avoid catching Covid? Why do you assert that all children will catch Covid? No other disease in known history has had a 100% infection rate." It's very contagious, as we've seen. Mitigations in schools are close to zero. Schools do tend to spread germs. Most countries, including our own, have said that disease suppression/zero Covid is a fantasy. I'm not sure that we know that no disease has a 100% infection rate. We do know that seroprevalence for other circulating corona viruses (common colds) is extremely high - the overwhelming majority of us get them. There was a suggestion early on that kids don't catch or spread Covid, but it was based on what happens when schools were closed. I think kids avoiding Covid would be so rare as to not be worthy of consideration. | |||
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"I think he meant a child's life who medical don't need a vaccine therefore why put a child at risk. Therefore let's test your numeracy skills, Why vaccinate a child when the risk of covid is less than vaccination. Less risk should be answer therefore child dies not get vaccinated We protect children in this country not put them at risk..... Is it safer for a child to get covid unvaccinated then it is to get vaccinated? Where’s your source Obviously he needs to answer cos not sure where he going with that but I will add this (again) The statistical short term risks of Covid are higher than the short term risks of Vaccine(s). But it is not a 1 to 1 comparison because you are only exposed to the risks of Covid if you catch it and the majority of children haven’t. While you are definitely exposed to risks of vaccine if you have it. That, along with understandable lack of long term data on fertility, are why some parents are concerned. I think that is fair enough. I understand the long term concerns. How do you suggest that any child might avoid catching Covid? Why do you assert that all children will catch Covid? No other disease in known history has had a 100% infection rate." I think the "everyone's going to catch it" statement assists with positing some of the arguments , especially when comparing to vaccine events. Kids can avoid it by doing what they've been doing the last months... A few sensible hygiene measures and staying home when ill. Having said that my neighbours got a kid in primary. 10 kids in her class have it. She doesnt. Both parents working with people who have had it.. Neither of them have succumbed yet. both my kids had it. But mum and step dad stayed clear of it. Seems no rhyme nor reason to who gets infected and when. | |||
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"And to add... I’m sure we all know people by now who have had Covid (this is in danger of sounding like “I have a mate who...”) and I certainly know plenty. That includes households where one person was positive, brought it home and nobody else caught it. That includes an elderly couple where he got pretty ill but his wife (who up until he got pretty ill was sharing a bed) got nothing. There will not be 100% infection. That would not have happened without vaccines (though considerably worse than has happened) and will definitely not happen now we have such high vaccine take up. " So, because most adults are vaccinated, kids in poorly ventilated crowded classrooms without masks or distancing won't spread bugs between each other? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think he meant a child's life who medical don't need a vaccine therefore why put a child at risk. Therefore let's test your numeracy skills, Why vaccinate a child when the risk of covid is less than vaccination. Less risk should be answer therefore child dies not get vaccinated We protect children in this country not put them at risk..... Is it safer for a child to get covid unvaccinated then it is to get vaccinated? Where’s your source Obviously he needs to answer cos not sure where he going with that but I will add this (again) The statistical short term risks of Covid are higher than the short term risks of Vaccine(s). But it is not a 1 to 1 comparison because you are only exposed to the risks of Covid if you catch it and the majority of children haven’t. While you are definitely exposed to risks of vaccine if you have it. That, along with understandable lack of long term data on fertility, are why some parents are concerned. I think that is fair enough. I understand the long term concerns. How do you suggest that any child might avoid catching Covid? Why do you assert that all children will catch Covid? No other disease in known history has had a 100% infection rate. It's very contagious, as we've seen. Mitigations in schools are close to zero. Schools do tend to spread germs. Most countries, including our own, have said that disease suppression/zero Covid is a fantasy. I'm not sure that we know that no disease has a 100% infection rate. We do know that seroprevalence for other circulating corona viruses (common colds) is extremely high - the overwhelming majority of us get them. There was a suggestion early on that kids don't catch or spread Covid, but it was based on what happens when schools were closed. I think kids avoiding Covid would be so rare as to not be worthy of consideration." Ok but even if a particular strain of the common cold does have 100% infection rates (I don’t believe that but cannot prove it either way) the infections do not happen within just a couple of years. It takes far longer. So as the point of this thread is vaccinating children I will continue to ask why the rush? How about a bit more caution to collect more data? As someone said above, this would be a different discussion if children were adversely affected. They are not. The opposite in fact! On that point, do we yet know why? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think he meant a child's life who medical don't need a vaccine therefore why put a child at risk. Therefore let's test your numeracy skills, Why vaccinate a child when the risk of covid is less than vaccination. Less risk should be answer therefore child dies not get vaccinated We protect children in this country not put them at risk..... Is it safer for a child to get covid unvaccinated then it is to get vaccinated? Where’s your source Obviously he needs to answer cos not sure where he going with that but I will add this (again) The statistical short term risks of Covid are higher than the short term risks of Vaccine(s). But it is not a 1 to 1 comparison because you are only exposed to the risks of Covid if you catch it and the majority of children haven’t. While you are definitely exposed to risks of vaccine if you have it. That, along with understandable lack of long term data on fertility, are why some parents are concerned. I think that is fair enough. I understand the long term concerns. How do you suggest that any child might avoid catching Covid? Why do you assert that all children will catch Covid? No other disease in known history has had a 100% infection rate. It's very contagious, as we've seen. Mitigations in schools are close to zero. Schools do tend to spread germs. Most countries, including our own, have said that disease suppression/zero Covid is a fantasy. I'm not sure that we know that no disease has a 100% infection rate. We do know that seroprevalence for other circulating corona viruses (common colds) is extremely high - the overwhelming majority of us get them. There was a suggestion early on that kids don't catch or spread Covid, but it was based on what happens when schools were closed. I think kids avoiding Covid would be so rare as to not be worthy of consideration. Ok but even if a particular strain of the common cold does have 100% infection rates (I don’t believe that but cannot prove it either way) the infections do not happen within just a couple of years. It takes far longer. So as the point of this thread is vaccinating children I will continue to ask why the rush? How about a bit more caution to collect more data? As someone said above, this would be a different discussion if children were adversely affected. They are not. The opposite in fact! On that point, do we yet know why?" At the moment US paediatric hospitals in some parts (the south mostly) are overrun with Covid. Ok, maybe only that's some children - but it also means that children are having their care rationed for other things (kid has symptomatic type 1 diabetes for the first time and there's no ICU beds for them - thing that could easily happen). Figures around long Covid between 1 in 7 and one in 10 (the latter was Israel). An inflammatory condition from Covid only seen in children (MIS-C). Much higher risks of myocarditis than the vaccine. Myocarditis following vaccination is self limiting. This idea it doesn't hurt kids - I don't know where this is coming from because it doesn't stack up. The disease is rampant, the risks are real. Death is not the only bad outcome, and some kids die. (I'm sure kids with pre existing conditions are just as loved, valuable, and worth saving as every other child) I'm not saying children must be vaccinated. I'm saying the choice should be offered - and I find the idea that it's a harmless disease utterly baffling. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"And to add... I’m sure we all know people by now who have had Covid (this is in danger of sounding like “I have a mate who...”) and I certainly know plenty. That includes households where one person was positive, brought it home and nobody else caught it. That includes an elderly couple where he got pretty ill but his wife (who up until he got pretty ill was sharing a bed) got nothing. There will not be 100% infection. That would not have happened without vaccines (though considerably worse than has happened) and will definitely not happen now we have such high vaccine take up. So, because most adults are vaccinated, kids in poorly ventilated crowded classrooms without masks or distancing won't spread bugs between each other?" You packed at lot on that statement but assume you meant Covid rather than (generic) bugs? They will catch it even if vaccinated. If vaccinated then there is significantly higher chance they will be asymptomatic so will continue attending school oblivious to the risks. If in senior and regularly tested and are found positive they will still have to isolate so will still have education disrupted. Also (playing devil’s advocate) if the vaccines are so good, then who are all these kids catching it from in first place? | |||
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"Absolutely not. 12-15 year olds don't need it what makes you think younger need it? The three posters above me all need locking up along with the leaders and scientists that are even suggesting this." So glad my kids are adults as would nor like the responsibility of deciding for them to have the vax or not! I'd tend to go with not x | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"And to add... I’m sure we all know people by now who have had Covid (this is in danger of sounding like “I have a mate who...”) and I certainly know plenty. That includes households where one person was positive, brought it home and nobody else caught it. That includes an elderly couple where he got pretty ill but his wife (who up until he got pretty ill was sharing a bed) got nothing. There will not be 100% infection. That would not have happened without vaccines (though considerably worse than has happened) and will definitely not happen now we have such high vaccine take up. So, because most adults are vaccinated, kids in poorly ventilated crowded classrooms without masks or distancing won't spread bugs between each other? You packed at lot on that statement but assume you meant Covid rather than (generic) bugs? They will catch it even if vaccinated. If vaccinated then there is significantly higher chance they will be asymptomatic so will continue attending school oblivious to the risks. If in senior and regularly tested and are found positive they will still have to isolate so will still have education disrupted. Also (playing devil’s advocate) if the vaccines are so good, then who are all these kids catching it from in first place?" All bugs, but also Covid. Vaccination gives the immune system a fighting chance to reduce the effects of the disease. So it doesn't spread within the body further. As with any other vaccination. Look at the data on hospitalisations for Covid, and the percentages who are unvaccinated. The risk profile changes. No vaccination is perfect. Only one might have sterilising immunity - HPV. Kids catch it from lots of people, including each other. Are you seriously arguing that because most adults are vaccinated, putting a lot of susceptible individuals in an enclosed space means that children are somehow protected? Herd immunity also depends on the local community. | |||
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"I would recommend everyone to have a look at the governments yellow card reporting scheme....." There's a lot of information in there. Anything specific you're alluding to? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I would recommend everyone to have a look at the governments yellow card reporting scheme..... There's a lot of information in there. Anything specific you're alluding to?" Is it similar to VAERS, which reported a two year old dying from the Covid vaccine - before the trial had started? Anyone can report anything, right? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think he meant a child's life who medical don't need a vaccine therefore why put a child at risk. Therefore let's test your numeracy skills, Why vaccinate a child when the risk of covid is less than vaccination. Less risk should be answer therefore child dies not get vaccinated We protect children in this country not put them at risk..... Is it safer for a child to get covid unvaccinated then it is to get vaccinated? Where’s your source Obviously he needs to answer cos not sure where he going with that but I will add this (again) The statistical short term risks of Covid are higher than the short term risks of Vaccine(s). But it is not a 1 to 1 comparison because you are only exposed to the risks of Covid if you catch it and the majority of children haven’t. While you are definitely exposed to risks of vaccine if you have it. That, along with understandable lack of long term data on fertility, are why some parents are concerned. I think that is fair enough. I understand the long term concerns. How do you suggest that any child might avoid catching Covid? Why do you assert that all children will catch Covid? No other disease in known history has had a 100% infection rate. It's very contagious, as we've seen. Mitigations in schools are close to zero. Schools do tend to spread germs. Most countries, including our own, have said that disease suppression/zero Covid is a fantasy. I'm not sure that we know that no disease has a 100% infection rate. We do know that seroprevalence for other circulating corona viruses (common colds) is extremely high - the overwhelming majority of us get them. There was a suggestion early on that kids don't catch or spread Covid, but it was based on what happens when schools were closed. I think kids avoiding Covid would be so rare as to not be worthy of consideration. Ok but even if a particular strain of the common cold does have 100% infection rates (I don’t believe that but cannot prove it either way) the infections do not happen within just a couple of years. It takes far longer. So as the point of this thread is vaccinating children I will continue to ask why the rush? How about a bit more caution to collect more data? As someone said above, this would be a different discussion if children were adversely affected. They are not. The opposite in fact! On that point, do we yet know why? At the moment US paediatric hospitals in some parts (the south mostly) are overrun with Covid. Ok, maybe only that's some children - but it also means that children are having their care rationed for other things (kid has symptomatic type 1 diabetes for the first time and there's no ICU beds for them - thing that could easily happen). Figures around long Covid between 1 in 7 and one in 10 (the latter was Israel). An inflammatory condition from Covid only seen in children (MIS-C). Much higher risks of myocarditis than the vaccine. Myocarditis following vaccination is self limiting. This idea it doesn't hurt kids - I don't know where this is coming from because it doesn't stack up. The disease is rampant, the risks are real. Death is not the only bad outcome, and some kids die. (I'm sure kids with pre existing conditions are just as loved, valuable, and worth saving as every other child) I'm not saying children must be vaccinated. I'm saying the choice should be offered - and I find the idea that it's a harmless disease utterly baffling." I don’t recall saying Covid wasn’t contagious or dangerous so that “idea” sure ain’t coming from me! Statistically the risks and impact on children is tiny. So again, why the rush? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think he meant a child's life who medical don't need a vaccine therefore why put a child at risk. Therefore let's test your numeracy skills, Why vaccinate a child when the risk of covid is less than vaccination. Less risk should be answer therefore child dies not get vaccinated We protect children in this country not put them at risk..... Is it safer for a child to get covid unvaccinated then it is to get vaccinated? Where’s your source Obviously he needs to answer cos not sure where he going with that but I will add this (again) The statistical short term risks of Covid are higher than the short term risks of Vaccine(s). But it is not a 1 to 1 comparison because you are only exposed to the risks of Covid if you catch it and the majority of children haven’t. While you are definitely exposed to risks of vaccine if you have it. That, along with understandable lack of long term data on fertility, are why some parents are concerned. I think that is fair enough. I understand the long term concerns. How do you suggest that any child might avoid catching Covid? Why do you assert that all children will catch Covid? No other disease in known history has had a 100% infection rate. It's very contagious, as we've seen. Mitigations in schools are close to zero. Schools do tend to spread germs. Most countries, including our own, have said that disease suppression/zero Covid is a fantasy. I'm not sure that we know that no disease has a 100% infection rate. We do know that seroprevalence for other circulating corona viruses (common colds) is extremely high - the overwhelming majority of us get them. There was a suggestion early on that kids don't catch or spread Covid, but it was based on what happens when schools were closed. I think kids avoiding Covid would be so rare as to not be worthy of consideration. Ok but even if a particular strain of the common cold does have 100% infection rates (I don’t believe that but cannot prove it either way) the infections do not happen within just a couple of years. It takes far longer. So as the point of this thread is vaccinating children I will continue to ask why the rush? How about a bit more caution to collect more data? As someone said above, this would be a different discussion if children were adversely affected. They are not. The opposite in fact! On that point, do we yet know why? At the moment US paediatric hospitals in some parts (the south mostly) are overrun with Covid. Ok, maybe only that's some children - but it also means that children are having their care rationed for other things (kid has symptomatic type 1 diabetes for the first time and there's no ICU beds for them - thing that could easily happen). Figures around long Covid between 1 in 7 and one in 10 (the latter was Israel). An inflammatory condition from Covid only seen in children (MIS-C). Much higher risks of myocarditis than the vaccine. Myocarditis following vaccination is self limiting. This idea it doesn't hurt kids - I don't know where this is coming from because it doesn't stack up. The disease is rampant, the risks are real. Death is not the only bad outcome, and some kids die. (I'm sure kids with pre existing conditions are just as loved, valuable, and worth saving as every other child) I'm not saying children must be vaccinated. I'm saying the choice should be offered - and I find the idea that it's a harmless disease utterly baffling. I don’t recall saying Covid wasn’t contagious or dangerous so that “idea” sure ain’t coming from me! Statistically the risks and impact on children is tiny. So again, why the rush?" One in ten is tiny? I don't think it is a rush. A rush would have been alongside the adult vaccines. Extra precautions were taken for teenagers, and more again for children. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"And to add... I’m sure we all know people by now who have had Covid (this is in danger of sounding like “I have a mate who...”) and I certainly know plenty. That includes households where one person was positive, brought it home and nobody else caught it. That includes an elderly couple where he got pretty ill but his wife (who up until he got pretty ill was sharing a bed) got nothing. There will not be 100% infection. That would not have happened without vaccines (though considerably worse than has happened) and will definitely not happen now we have such high vaccine take up. So, because most adults are vaccinated, kids in poorly ventilated crowded classrooms without masks or distancing won't spread bugs between each other? You packed at lot on that statement but assume you meant Covid rather than (generic) bugs? They will catch it even if vaccinated. If vaccinated then there is significantly higher chance they will be asymptomatic so will continue attending school oblivious to the risks. If in senior and regularly tested and are found positive they will still have to isolate so will still have education disrupted. Also (playing devil’s advocate) if the vaccines are so good, then who are all these kids catching it from in first place? All bugs, but also Covid. Vaccination gives the immune system a fighting chance to reduce the effects of the disease. So it doesn't spread within the body further. As with any other vaccination. Look at the data on hospitalisations for Covid, and the percentages who are unvaccinated. The risk profile changes. No vaccination is perfect. Only one might have sterilising immunity - HPV. Kids catch it from lots of people, including each other. Are you seriously arguing that because most adults are vaccinated, putting a lot of susceptible individuals in an enclosed space means that children are somehow protected? Herd immunity also depends on the local community." Oh come on swing you are better than that! We have had enough conversations for you to know that I am not thick! You don’t need to mansplain to me how vaccines work. Nor do you for a minute honestly think I am saying kids are protected in a classroom | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"And to add... I’m sure we all know people by now who have had Covid (this is in danger of sounding like “I have a mate who...”) and I certainly know plenty. That includes households where one person was positive, brought it home and nobody else caught it. That includes an elderly couple where he got pretty ill but his wife (who up until he got pretty ill was sharing a bed) got nothing. There will not be 100% infection. That would not have happened without vaccines (though considerably worse than has happened) and will definitely not happen now we have such high vaccine take up. So, because most adults are vaccinated, kids in poorly ventilated crowded classrooms without masks or distancing won't spread bugs between each other? You packed at lot on that statement but assume you meant Covid rather than (generic) bugs? They will catch it even if vaccinated. If vaccinated then there is significantly higher chance they will be asymptomatic so will continue attending school oblivious to the risks. If in senior and regularly tested and are found positive they will still have to isolate so will still have education disrupted. Also (playing devil’s advocate) if the vaccines are so good, then who are all these kids catching it from in first place? All bugs, but also Covid. Vaccination gives the immune system a fighting chance to reduce the effects of the disease. So it doesn't spread within the body further. As with any other vaccination. Look at the data on hospitalisations for Covid, and the percentages who are unvaccinated. The risk profile changes. No vaccination is perfect. Only one might have sterilising immunity - HPV. Kids catch it from lots of people, including each other. Are you seriously arguing that because most adults are vaccinated, putting a lot of susceptible individuals in an enclosed space means that children are somehow protected? Herd immunity also depends on the local community. Oh come on swing you are better than that! We have had enough conversations for you to know that I am not thick! You don’t need to mansplain to me how vaccines work. Nor do you for a minute honestly think I am saying kids are protected in a classroom "Can you explain how I was supposed to interpret what you said, then? Because I answered in good faith. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"And to add... I’m sure we all know people by now who have had Covid (this is in danger of sounding like “I have a mate who...”) and I certainly know plenty. That includes households where one person was positive, brought it home and nobody else caught it. That includes an elderly couple where he got pretty ill but his wife (who up until he got pretty ill was sharing a bed) got nothing. There will not be 100% infection. That would not have happened without vaccines (though considerably worse than has happened) and will definitely not happen now we have such high vaccine take up. So, because most adults are vaccinated, kids in poorly ventilated crowded classrooms without masks or distancing won't spread bugs between each other? You packed at lot on that statement but assume you meant Covid rather than (generic) bugs? They will catch it even if vaccinated. If vaccinated then there is significantly higher chance they will be asymptomatic so will continue attending school oblivious to the risks. If in senior and regularly tested and are found positive they will still have to isolate so will still have education disrupted. Also (playing devil’s advocate) if the vaccines are so good, then who are all these kids catching it from in first place? All bugs, but also Covid. Vaccination gives the immune system a fighting chance to reduce the effects of the disease. So it doesn't spread within the body further. As with any other vaccination. Look at the data on hospitalisations for Covid, and the percentages who are unvaccinated. The risk profile changes. No vaccination is perfect. Only one might have sterilising immunity - HPV. Kids catch it from lots of people, including each other. Are you seriously arguing that because most adults are vaccinated, putting a lot of susceptible individuals in an enclosed space means that children are somehow protected? Herd immunity also depends on the local community. Oh come on swing you are better than that! We have had enough conversations for you to know that I am not thick! You don’t need to mansplain to me how vaccines work. Nor do you for a minute honestly think I am saying kids are protected in a classroom "So mansplaining (if that's what it is) is a no-no but telling me I have no right to an opinion on this matter because I don't have kids is perfectly acceptable? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think he meant a child's life who medical don't need a vaccine therefore why put a child at risk. Therefore let's test your numeracy skills, Why vaccinate a child when the risk of covid is less than vaccination. Less risk should be answer therefore child dies not get vaccinated We protect children in this country not put them at risk..... Is it safer for a child to get covid unvaccinated then it is to get vaccinated? Where’s your source Obviously he needs to answer cos not sure where he going with that but I will add this (again) The statistical short term risks of Covid are higher than the short term risks of Vaccine(s). But it is not a 1 to 1 comparison because you are only exposed to the risks of Covid if you catch it and the majority of children haven’t. While you are definitely exposed to risks of vaccine if you have it. That, along with understandable lack of long term data on fertility, are why some parents are concerned. I think that is fair enough. I understand the long term concerns. How do you suggest that any child might avoid catching Covid? Why do you assert that all children will catch Covid? No other disease in known history has had a 100% infection rate. It's very contagious, as we've seen. Mitigations in schools are close to zero. Schools do tend to spread germs. Most countries, including our own, have said that disease suppression/zero Covid is a fantasy. I'm not sure that we know that no disease has a 100% infection rate. We do know that seroprevalence for other circulating corona viruses (common colds) is extremely high - the overwhelming majority of us get them. There was a suggestion early on that kids don't catch or spread Covid, but it was based on what happens when schools were closed. I think kids avoiding Covid would be so rare as to not be worthy of consideration. Ok but even if a particular strain of the common cold does have 100% infection rates (I don’t believe that but cannot prove it either way) the infections do not happen within just a couple of years. It takes far longer. So as the point of this thread is vaccinating children I will continue to ask why the rush? How about a bit more caution to collect more data? As someone said above, this would be a different discussion if children were adversely affected. They are not. The opposite in fact! On that point, do we yet know why? At the moment US paediatric hospitals in some parts (the south mostly) are overrun with Covid. Ok, maybe only that's some children - but it also means that children are having their care rationed for other things (kid has symptomatic type 1 diabetes for the first time and there's no ICU beds for them - thing that could easily happen). Figures around long Covid between 1 in 7 and one in 10 (the latter was Israel). An inflammatory condition from Covid only seen in children (MIS-C). Much higher risks of myocarditis than the vaccine. Myocarditis following vaccination is self limiting. This idea it doesn't hurt kids - I don't know where this is coming from because it doesn't stack up. The disease is rampant, the risks are real. Death is not the only bad outcome, and some kids die. (I'm sure kids with pre existing conditions are just as loved, valuable, and worth saving as every other child) I'm not saying children must be vaccinated. I'm saying the choice should be offered - and I find the idea that it's a harmless disease utterly baffling. I don’t recall saying Covid wasn’t contagious or dangerous so that “idea” sure ain’t coming from me! Statistically the risks and impact on children is tiny. So again, why the rush? One in ten is tiny? I don't think it is a rush. A rush would have been alongside the adult vaccines. Extra precautions were taken for teenagers, and more again for children." Can you explain that 1 in 10 figure please. Is that 1 in 10 of kids who catch Covid develop some form of Long Covid? What was the universe the 10 came from (ie how many didn’t get Covid)? Also define the severity of the Long Covid condition and the longevity of it. Is it lifelong or a natural recovery period after a severe illness? So many variables at play. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"And to add... I’m sure we all know people by now who have had Covid (this is in danger of sounding like “I have a mate who...”) and I certainly know plenty. That includes households where one person was positive, brought it home and nobody else caught it. That includes an elderly couple where he got pretty ill but his wife (who up until he got pretty ill was sharing a bed) got nothing. There will not be 100% infection. That would not have happened without vaccines (though considerably worse than has happened) and will definitely not happen now we have such high vaccine take up. So, because most adults are vaccinated, kids in poorly ventilated crowded classrooms without masks or distancing won't spread bugs between each other? You packed at lot on that statement but assume you meant Covid rather than (generic) bugs? They will catch it even if vaccinated. If vaccinated then there is significantly higher chance they will be asymptomatic so will continue attending school oblivious to the risks. If in senior and regularly tested and are found positive they will still have to isolate so will still have education disrupted. Also (playing devil’s advocate) if the vaccines are so good, then who are all these kids catching it from in first place? All bugs, but also Covid. Vaccination gives the immune system a fighting chance to reduce the effects of the disease. So it doesn't spread within the body further. As with any other vaccination. Look at the data on hospitalisations for Covid, and the percentages who are unvaccinated. The risk profile changes. No vaccination is perfect. Only one might have sterilising immunity - HPV. Kids catch it from lots of people, including each other. Are you seriously arguing that because most adults are vaccinated, putting a lot of susceptible individuals in an enclosed space means that children are somehow protected? Herd immunity also depends on the local community. Oh come on swing you are better than that! We have had enough conversations for you to know that I am not thick! You don’t need to mansplain to me how vaccines work. Nor do you for a minute honestly think I am saying kids are protected in a classroom
So mansplaining (if that's what it is) is a no-no but telling me I have no right to an opinion on this matter because I don't have kids is perfectly acceptable? "Yes | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Oh come on swing you are better than that! We have had enough conversations for you to know that I am not thick! You don’t need to mansplain to me how vaccines work. Nor do you for a minute honestly think I am saying kids are protected in a classroom
So mansplaining (if that's what it is) is a no-no but telling me I have no right to an opinion on this matter because I don't have kids is perfectly acceptable?
Yes "Excellent. Thanks for confirming the double standards / hypocrisy in your post. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"And to add... I’m sure we all know people by now who have had Covid (this is in danger of sounding like “I have a mate who...”) and I certainly know plenty. That includes households where one person was positive, brought it home and nobody else caught it. That includes an elderly couple where he got pretty ill but his wife (who up until he got pretty ill was sharing a bed) got nothing. There will not be 100% infection. That would not have happened without vaccines (though considerably worse than has happened) and will definitely not happen now we have such high vaccine take up. So, because most adults are vaccinated, kids in poorly ventilated crowded classrooms without masks or distancing won't spread bugs between each other? You packed at lot on that statement but assume you meant Covid rather than (generic) bugs? They will catch it even if vaccinated. If vaccinated then there is significantly higher chance they will be asymptomatic so will continue attending school oblivious to the risks. If in senior and regularly tested and are found positive they will still have to isolate so will still have education disrupted. Also (playing devil’s advocate) if the vaccines are so good, then who are all these kids catching it from in first place? All bugs, but also Covid. Vaccination gives the immune system a fighting chance to reduce the effects of the disease. So it doesn't spread within the body further. As with any other vaccination. Look at the data on hospitalisations for Covid, and the percentages who are unvaccinated. The risk profile changes. No vaccination is perfect. Only one might have sterilising immunity - HPV. Kids catch it from lots of people, including each other. Are you seriously arguing that because most adults are vaccinated, putting a lot of susceptible individuals in an enclosed space means that children are somehow protected? Herd immunity also depends on the local community. Oh come on swing you are better than that! We have had enough conversations for you to know that I am not thick! You don’t need to mansplain to me how vaccines work. Nor do you for a minute honestly think I am saying kids are protected in a classroom
So mansplaining (if that's what it is) is a no-no but telling me I have no right to an opinion on this matter because I don't have kids is perfectly acceptable?
Yes "I believe he has every right to have an opinion even if he is not a parent. He may be very close to a niece or a godchild of such age and may have read a lot of info on covid and the vaccines. He may not have a say on whether that child gets vaccinated or not but he can have an opinion. | |||
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"I think he meant a child's life who medical don't need a vaccine therefore why put a child at risk. Therefore let's test your numeracy skills, Why vaccinate a child when the risk of covid is less than vaccination. Less risk should be answer therefore child dies not get vaccinated We protect children in this country not put them at risk..... Is it safer for a child to get covid unvaccinated then it is to get vaccinated? Where’s your source Obviously he needs to answer cos not sure where he going with that but I will add this (again) The statistical short term risks of Covid are higher than the short term risks of Vaccine(s). But it is not a 1 to 1 comparison because you are only exposed to the risks of Covid if you catch it and the majority of children haven’t. While you are definitely exposed to risks of vaccine if you have it. That, along with understandable lack of long term data on fertility, are why some parents are concerned. I think that is fair enough. I understand the long term concerns. How do you suggest that any child might avoid catching Covid? Why do you assert that all children will catch Covid? No other disease in known history has had a 100% infection rate. It's very contagious, as we've seen. Mitigations in schools are close to zero. Schools do tend to spread germs. Most countries, including our own, have said that disease suppression/zero Covid is a fantasy. I'm not sure that we know that no disease has a 100% infection rate. We do know that seroprevalence for other circulating corona viruses (common colds) is extremely high - the overwhelming majority of us get them. There was a suggestion early on that kids don't catch or spread Covid, but it was based on what happens when schools were closed. I think kids avoiding Covid would be so rare as to not be worthy of consideration. Ok but even if a particular strain of the common cold does have 100% infection rates (I don’t believe that but cannot prove it either way) the infections do not happen within just a couple of years. It takes far longer. So as the point of this thread is vaccinating children I will continue to ask why the rush? How about a bit more caution to collect more data? As someone said above, this would be a different discussion if children were adversely affected. They are not. The opposite in fact! On that point, do we yet know why? At the moment US paediatric hospitals in some parts (the south mostly) are overrun with Covid. Ok, maybe only that's some children - but it also means that children are having their care rationed for other things (kid has symptomatic type 1 diabetes for the first time and there's no ICU beds for them - thing that could easily happen). Figures around long Covid between 1 in 7 and one in 10 (the latter was Israel). An inflammatory condition from Covid only seen in children (MIS-C). Much higher risks of myocarditis than the vaccine. Myocarditis following vaccination is self limiting. This idea it doesn't hurt kids - I don't know where this is coming from because it doesn't stack up. The disease is rampant, the risks are real. Death is not the only bad outcome, and some kids die. (I'm sure kids with pre existing conditions are just as loved, valuable, and worth saving as every other child) I'm not saying children must be vaccinated. I'm saying the choice should be offered - and I find the idea that it's a harmless disease utterly baffling. I don’t recall saying Covid wasn’t contagious or dangerous so that “idea” sure ain’t coming from me! Statistically the risks and impact on children is tiny. So again, why the rush? One in ten is tiny? I don't think it is a rush. A rush would have been alongside the adult vaccines. Extra precautions were taken for teenagers, and more again for children. Can you explain that 1 in 10 figure please. Is that 1 in 10 of kids who catch Covid develop some form of Long Covid? What was the universe the 10 came from (ie how many didn’t get Covid)? Also define the severity of the Long Covid condition and the longevity of it. Is it lifelong or a natural recovery period after a severe illness? So many variables at play." One in ten children in Israel who contract Covid develop long Covid (I don't recall the specifics off the top of my head). As I've asked before - do you really think that a child not catching Covid is in any way a realistic thing to rely upon? They'll not catch it somehow is more likely than myocarditis at three in a million? I don't *want* kids to catch it - I just can't see how that's a realistic factor to take into account when judging risk. Particularly in the UK. | |||
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" Oh come on swing you are better than that! We have had enough conversations for you to know that I am not thick! You don’t need to mansplain to me how vaccines work. Nor do you for a minute honestly think I am saying kids are protected in a classroom
So mansplaining (if that's what it is) is a no-no but telling me I have no right to an opinion on this matter because I don't have kids is perfectly acceptable?
Yes
Excellent. Thanks for confirming the double standards / hypocrisy in your post. "I would say you’re welcome except you clearly don’t understand what double standards mean. Trying to tell parents how they should act when you are not a parent and do not face the moral dilemma of having to make a decision that could adversely affect your child is not remotely the same as calling out mansplaining | |||
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"And to add... I’m sure we all know people by now who have had Covid (this is in danger of sounding like “I have a mate who...”) and I certainly know plenty. That includes households where one person was positive, brought it home and nobody else caught it. That includes an elderly couple where he got pretty ill but his wife (who up until he got pretty ill was sharing a bed) got nothing. There will not be 100% infection. That would not have happened without vaccines (though considerably worse than has happened) and will definitely not happen now we have such high vaccine take up. So, because most adults are vaccinated, kids in poorly ventilated crowded classrooms without masks or distancing won't spread bugs between each other? You packed at lot on that statement but assume you meant Covid rather than (generic) bugs? They will catch it even if vaccinated. If vaccinated then there is significantly higher chance they will be asymptomatic so will continue attending school oblivious to the risks. If in senior and regularly tested and are found positive they will still have to isolate so will still have education disrupted. Also (playing devil’s advocate) if the vaccines are so good, then who are all these kids catching it from in first place? All bugs, but also Covid. Vaccination gives the immune system a fighting chance to reduce the effects of the disease. So it doesn't spread within the body further. As with any other vaccination. Look at the data on hospitalisations for Covid, and the percentages who are unvaccinated. The risk profile changes. No vaccination is perfect. Only one might have sterilising immunity - HPV. Kids catch it from lots of people, including each other. Are you seriously arguing that because most adults are vaccinated, putting a lot of susceptible individuals in an enclosed space means that children are somehow protected? Herd immunity also depends on the local community. Oh come on swing you are better than that! We have had enough conversations for you to know that I am not thick! You don’t need to mansplain to me how vaccines work. Nor do you for a minute honestly think I am saying kids are protected in a classroom
So mansplaining (if that's what it is) is a no-no but telling me I have no right to an opinion on this matter because I don't have kids is perfectly acceptable?
Yes
I believe he has every right to have an opinion even if he is not a parent. He may be very close to a niece or a godchild of such age and may have read a lot of info on covid and the vaccines. He may not have a say on whether that child gets vaccinated or not but he can have an opinion."Thank you ice. 
Uncle to 3 very close nephews and also godfather to 2 kids so yup, a very vested interest. But also yes, the choice ultimately isn't mine. | |||
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"Absolutely not. 12-15 year olds don't need it what makes you think younger need it? The three posters above me all need locking up along with the leaders and scientists that are even suggesting this. You are JohnJ21 and I claim my £5.
Kids have been getting vaccines for decades to help with various diseases. If medical experts (you know those people who have spent years studying vaccines) advise that the benefits of kids getting a vaccine outweigh the risks then that's good enough for me. (I'm not a parent btw but if I was then I'd happily follow the science)."Just quoting myself for the benefit of the post above. Nowhere in that post do I tell others what they should do. I'm merely pointing out that my choice would be based on the medical guidance and evidence currently at hand. And based on that, I would encourage any of my kids to get the vaccine. It's clearly not a black and white case but from what I've read (from sources I am .ore inclined to trust) the benefits outweigh the risks. | |||
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"We protect children in this country not put them at risk..... " So you keep saying. Why do you believe that the risk is higher for vaccination? | |||
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"Absolutely not. 12-15 year olds don't need it what makes you think younger need it? The three posters above me all need locking up along with the leaders and scientists that are even suggesting this. You are JohnJ21 and I claim my £5.
Kids have been getting vaccines for decades to help with various diseases. If medical experts (you know those people who have spent years studying vaccines) advise that the benefits of kids getting a vaccine outweigh the risks then that's good enough for me. (I'm not a parent btw but if I was then I'd happily follow the science).
Just quoting myself for the benefit of the post above. Nowhere in that post do I tell others what they should do. I'm merely pointing out that my choice would be based on the medical guidance and evidence currently at hand. And based on that, I would encourage any of my kids to get the vaccine.
It's clearly not a black and white case but from what I've read (from sources I am .ore inclined to trust) the benefits outweigh the risks.
"Actually you don’t say what others should do. So I am happy to withdraw and qualify... It really is a lot harder to decide when you are the parent(s), especially when we are not given adequate comparable data to make informed judgements based on comparative risk. I didn’t set out to offend, not my intent if it did, but I think if you are not a parent you don’t face the same issues which does mean your opinion has less relevance to the topic. | |||
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Thread may now continue.... | |||
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"I think he meant a child's life who medical don't need a vaccine therefore why put a child at risk. Therefore let's test your numeracy skills, Why vaccinate a child when the risk of covid is less than vaccination. Less risk should be answer therefore child dies not get vaccinated We protect children in this country not put them at risk..... Is it safer for a child to get covid unvaccinated then it is to get vaccinated? Where’s your source Obviously he needs to answer cos not sure where he going with that but I will add this (again) The statistical short term risks of Covid are higher than the short term risks of Vaccine(s). But it is not a 1 to 1 comparison because you are only exposed to the risks of Covid if you catch it and the majority of children haven’t. While you are definitely exposed to risks of vaccine if you have it. That, along with understandable lack of long term data on fertility, are why some parents are concerned. I think that is fair enough. I understand the long term concerns. How do you suggest that any child might avoid catching Covid? Why do you assert that all children will catch Covid? No other disease in known history has had a 100% infection rate. It's very contagious, as we've seen. Mitigations in schools are close to zero. Schools do tend to spread germs. Most countries, including our own, have said that disease suppression/zero Covid is a fantasy. I'm not sure that we know that no disease has a 100% infection rate. We do know that seroprevalence for other circulating corona viruses (common colds) is extremely high - the overwhelming majority of us get them. There was a suggestion early on that kids don't catch or spread Covid, but it was based on what happens when schools were closed. I think kids avoiding Covid would be so rare as to not be worthy of consideration. Ok but even if a particular strain of the common cold does have 100% infection rates (I don’t believe that but cannot prove it either way) the infections do not happen within just a couple of years. It takes far longer. So as the point of this thread is vaccinating children I will continue to ask why the rush? How about a bit more caution to collect more data? As someone said above, this would be a different discussion if children were adversely affected. They are not. The opposite in fact! On that point, do we yet know why? At the moment US paediatric hospitals in some parts (the south mostly) are overrun with Covid. Ok, maybe only that's some children - but it also means that children are having their care rationed for other things (kid has symptomatic type 1 diabetes for the first time and there's no ICU beds for them - thing that could easily happen). Figures around long Covid between 1 in 7 and one in 10 (the latter was Israel). An inflammatory condition from Covid only seen in children (MIS-C). Much higher risks of myocarditis than the vaccine. Myocarditis following vaccination is self limiting. This idea it doesn't hurt kids - I don't know where this is coming from because it doesn't stack up. The disease is rampant, the risks are real. Death is not the only bad outcome, and some kids die. (I'm sure kids with pre existing conditions are just as loved, valuable, and worth saving as every other child) I'm not saying children must be vaccinated. I'm saying the choice should be offered - and I find the idea that it's a harmless disease utterly baffling. I don’t recall saying Covid wasn’t contagious or dangerous so that “idea” sure ain’t coming from me! Statistically the risks and impact on children is tiny. So again, why the rush? One in ten is tiny? I don't think it is a rush. A rush would have been alongside the adult vaccines. Extra precautions were taken for teenagers, and more again for children. Can you explain that 1 in 10 figure please. Is that 1 in 10 of kids who catch Covid develop some form of Long Covid? What was the universe the 10 came from (ie how many didn’t get Covid)? Also define the severity of the Long Covid condition and the longevity of it. Is it lifelong or a natural recovery period after a severe illness? So many variables at play. One in ten children in Israel who contract Covid develop long Covid (I don't recall the specifics off the top of my head). As I've asked before - do you really think that a child not catching Covid is in any way a realistic thing to rely upon? They'll not catch it somehow is more likely than myocarditis at three in a million? I don't *want* kids to catch it - I just can't see how that's a realistic factor to take into account when judging risk. Particularly in the UK." I will probably get accused of mansplaining myself now (which is fair enough)... When you work on big projects and programmes there is a person(s) employed to assess risk. To do that they look at; 1. Risk event: What might happen to affect your project? 2. Risk timeframe: When is it likely to happen? 3. Probability: What’s are the chances of it happening? 4. Impact: What’s the expected outcome? 5. Factors: What events might forewarn or trigger the risk event? So timeframe - based on what has happened to date with Covid and previous comparable diseases we will not see 100% infection inside of the next few years. Probability - same thing. Not everyone exposed to Covid catches Covid. And so on... Ergo - why rush when it comes to kids? Let’s build up more data. Let’s see if fears around fertility impacts are truly unfounded. | |||
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"Apology accepted.
Thread may now continue.... "A qualified apology, let’s not get ahead of ourselves Mr | |||
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"I think he meant a child's life who medical don't need a vaccine therefore why put a child at risk. Therefore let's test your numeracy skills, Why vaccinate a child when the risk of covid is less than vaccination. Less risk should be answer therefore child dies not get vaccinated We protect children in this country not put them at risk..... Is it safer for a child to get covid unvaccinated then it is to get vaccinated? Where’s your source Obviously he needs to answer cos not sure where he going with that but I will add this (again) The statistical short term risks of Covid are higher than the short term risks of Vaccine(s). But it is not a 1 to 1 comparison because you are only exposed to the risks of Covid if you catch it and the majority of children haven’t. While you are definitely exposed to risks of vaccine if you have it. That, along with understandable lack of long term data on fertility, are why some parents are concerned. I think that is fair enough. I understand the long term concerns. How do you suggest that any child might avoid catching Covid? Why do you assert that all children will catch Covid? No other disease in known history has had a 100% infection rate. It's very contagious, as we've seen. Mitigations in schools are close to zero. Schools do tend to spread germs. Most countries, including our own, have said that disease suppression/zero Covid is a fantasy. I'm not sure that we know that no disease has a 100% infection rate. We do know that seroprevalence for other circulating corona viruses (common colds) is extremely high - the overwhelming majority of us get them. There was a suggestion early on that kids don't catch or spread Covid, but it was based on what happens when schools were closed. I think kids avoiding Covid would be so rare as to not be worthy of consideration. Ok but even if a particular strain of the common cold does have 100% infection rates (I don’t believe that but cannot prove it either way) the infections do not happen within just a couple of years. It takes far longer. So as the point of this thread is vaccinating children I will continue to ask why the rush? How about a bit more caution to collect more data? As someone said above, this would be a different discussion if children were adversely affected. They are not. The opposite in fact! On that point, do we yet know why? At the moment US paediatric hospitals in some parts (the south mostly) are overrun with Covid. Ok, maybe only that's some children - but it also means that children are having their care rationed for other things (kid has symptomatic type 1 diabetes for the first time and there's no ICU beds for them - thing that could easily happen). Figures around long Covid between 1 in 7 and one in 10 (the latter was Israel). An inflammatory condition from Covid only seen in children (MIS-C). Much higher risks of myocarditis than the vaccine. Myocarditis following vaccination is self limiting. This idea it doesn't hurt kids - I don't know where this is coming from because it doesn't stack up. The disease is rampant, the risks are real. Death is not the only bad outcome, and some kids die. (I'm sure kids with pre existing conditions are just as loved, valuable, and worth saving as every other child) I'm not saying children must be vaccinated. I'm saying the choice should be offered - and I find the idea that it's a harmless disease utterly baffling. I don’t recall saying Covid wasn’t contagious or dangerous so that “idea” sure ain’t coming from me! Statistically the risks and impact on children is tiny. So again, why the rush? One in ten is tiny? I don't think it is a rush. A rush would have been alongside the adult vaccines. Extra precautions were taken for teenagers, and more again for children. Can you explain that 1 in 10 figure please. Is that 1 in 10 of kids who catch Covid develop some form of Long Covid? What was the universe the 10 came from (ie how many didn’t get Covid)? Also define the severity of the Long Covid condition and the longevity of it. Is it lifelong or a natural recovery period after a severe illness? So many variables at play. One in ten children in Israel who contract Covid develop long Covid (I don't recall the specifics off the top of my head). As I've asked before - do you really think that a child not catching Covid is in any way a realistic thing to rely upon? They'll not catch it somehow is more likely than myocarditis at three in a million? I don't *want* kids to catch it - I just can't see how that's a realistic factor to take into account when judging risk. Particularly in the UK. I will probably get accused of mansplaining myself now (which is fair enough)... When you work on big projects and programmes there is a person(s) employed to assess risk. To do that they look at; 1. Risk event: What might happen to affect your project? 2. Risk timeframe: When is it likely to happen? 3. Probability: What’s are the chances of it happening? 4. Impact: What’s the expected outcome? 5. Factors: What events might forewarn or trigger the risk event? So timeframe - based on what has happened to date with Covid and previous comparable diseases we will not see 100% infection inside of the next few years. Probability - same thing. Not everyone exposed to Covid catches Covid. And so on... Ergo - why rush when it comes to kids? Let’s build up more data. Let’s see if fears around fertility impacts are truly unfounded." I understand that that's how you're thinking about it, and I have enough of an appreciation of risk calculation to get me by. I disagree with your including "might not catch Covid" in the list. I think that's wishful thinking at best, given the mechanisms of disease (which we agree upon, as noted above). I think parents should be given the option once trials are completed and scrutinised by the relevant bodies. | |||
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"I think he meant a child's life who medical don't need a vaccine therefore why put a child at risk. Therefore let's test your numeracy skills, Why vaccinate a child when the risk of covid is less than vaccination. Less risk should be answer therefore child dies not get vaccinated We protect children in this country not put them at risk..... Is it safer for a child to get covid unvaccinated then it is to get vaccinated? Where’s your source Obviously he needs to answer cos not sure where he going with that but I will add this (again) The statistical short term risks of Covid are higher than the short term risks of Vaccine(s). But it is not a 1 to 1 comparison because you are only exposed to the risks of Covid if you catch it and the majority of children haven’t. While you are definitely exposed to risks of vaccine if you have it. That, along with understandable lack of long term data on fertility, are why some parents are concerned. I think that is fair enough. I understand the long term concerns. How do you suggest that any child might avoid catching Covid? Why do you assert that all children will catch Covid? No other disease in known history has had a 100% infection rate. It's very contagious, as we've seen. Mitigations in schools are close to zero. Schools do tend to spread germs. Most countries, including our own, have said that disease suppression/zero Covid is a fantasy. I'm not sure that we know that no disease has a 100% infection rate. We do know that seroprevalence for other circulating corona viruses (common colds) is extremely high - the overwhelming majority of us get them. There was a suggestion early on that kids don't catch or spread Covid, but it was based on what happens when schools were closed. I think kids avoiding Covid would be so rare as to not be worthy of consideration. Ok but even if a particular strain of the common cold does have 100% infection rates (I don’t believe that but cannot prove it either way) the infections do not happen within just a couple of years. It takes far longer. So as the point of this thread is vaccinating children I will continue to ask why the rush? How about a bit more caution to collect more data? As someone said above, this would be a different discussion if children were adversely affected. They are not. The opposite in fact! On that point, do we yet know why? At the moment US paediatric hospitals in some parts (the south mostly) are overrun with Covid. Ok, maybe only that's some children - but it also means that children are having their care rationed for other things (kid has symptomatic type 1 diabetes for the first time and there's no ICU beds for them - thing that could easily happen). Figures around long Covid between 1 in 7 and one in 10 (the latter was Israel). An inflammatory condition from Covid only seen in children (MIS-C). Much higher risks of myocarditis than the vaccine. Myocarditis following vaccination is self limiting. This idea it doesn't hurt kids - I don't know where this is coming from because it doesn't stack up. The disease is rampant, the risks are real. Death is not the only bad outcome, and some kids die. (I'm sure kids with pre existing conditions are just as loved, valuable, and worth saving as every other child) I'm not saying children must be vaccinated. I'm saying the choice should be offered - and I find the idea that it's a harmless disease utterly baffling. I don’t recall saying Covid wasn’t contagious or dangerous so that “idea” sure ain’t coming from me! Statistically the risks and impact on children is tiny. So again, why the rush? One in ten is tiny? I don't think it is a rush. A rush would have been alongside the adult vaccines. Extra precautions were taken for teenagers, and more again for children. Can you explain that 1 in 10 figure please. Is that 1 in 10 of kids who catch Covid develop some form of Long Covid? What was the universe the 10 came from (ie how many didn’t get Covid)? Also define the severity of the Long Covid condition and the longevity of it. Is it lifelong or a natural recovery period after a severe illness? So many variables at play. One in ten children in Israel who contract Covid develop long Covid (I don't recall the specifics off the top of my head). As I've asked before - do you really think that a child not catching Covid is in any way a realistic thing to rely upon? They'll not catch it somehow is more likely than myocarditis at three in a million? I don't *want* kids to catch it - I just can't see how that's a realistic factor to take into account when judging risk. Particularly in the UK. I will probably get accused of mansplaining myself now (which is fair enough)... When you work on big projects and programmes there is a person(s) employed to assess risk. To do that they look at; 1. Risk event: What might happen to affect your project? 2. Risk timeframe: When is it likely to happen? 3. Probability: What’s are the chances of it happening? 4. Impact: What’s the expected outcome? 5. Factors: What events might forewarn or trigger the risk event? So timeframe - based on what has happened to date with Covid and previous comparable diseases we will not see 100% infection inside of the next few years. Probability - same thing. Not everyone exposed to Covid catches Covid. And so on... Ergo - why rush when it comes to kids? Let’s build up more data. Let’s see if fears around fertility impacts are truly unfounded. I understand that that's how you're thinking about it, and I have enough of an appreciation of risk calculation to get me by. I disagree with your including "might not catch Covid" in the list. I think that's wishful thinking at best, given the mechanisms of disease (which we agree upon, as noted above). I think parents should be given the option once trials are completed and scrutinised by the relevant bodies." Well you know I am pro choice and have previously got annoyed by vaccine evangelists who advocated vaccine passports, segregating society based on vaccine status and even some promoting the idea that people choosing not to be vaxed should be denied access to NHS. I agree parents should have choice. I also think (and keep saying) we need access to comparable data sets with clear communications to inform decisions. However, I strongly believe that the Govt will consider in future excluding children from school if they are not vaxed. So vaccine passports for kids. Parents will coerced in the same way as adults are being. | |||
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"We protect children in this country not put them at risk..... " And one way of protecting children, is by vaccinating them if the data eventually proves that it’s worth doing so. | |||
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"I think he meant a child's life who medical don't need a vaccine therefore why put a child at risk. Therefore let's test your numeracy skills, Why vaccinate a child when the risk of covid is less than vaccination. Less risk should be answer therefore child dies not get vaccinated We protect children in this country not put them at risk..... Is it safer for a child to get covid unvaccinated then it is to get vaccinated? Where’s your source Obviously he needs to answer cos not sure where he going with that but I will add this (again) The statistical short term risks of Covid are higher than the short term risks of Vaccine(s). But it is not a 1 to 1 comparison because you are only exposed to the risks of Covid if you catch it and the majority of children haven’t. While you are definitely exposed to risks of vaccine if you have it. That, along with understandable lack of long term data on fertility, are why some parents are concerned. I think that is fair enough. I understand the long term concerns. How do you suggest that any child might avoid catching Covid? Why do you assert that all children will catch Covid? No other disease in known history has had a 100% infection rate. It's very contagious, as we've seen. Mitigations in schools are close to zero. Schools do tend to spread germs. Most countries, including our own, have said that disease suppression/zero Covid is a fantasy. I'm not sure that we know that no disease has a 100% infection rate. We do know that seroprevalence for other circulating corona viruses (common colds) is extremely high - the overwhelming majority of us get them. There was a suggestion early on that kids don't catch or spread Covid, but it was based on what happens when schools were closed. I think kids avoiding Covid would be so rare as to not be worthy of consideration. Ok but even if a particular strain of the common cold does have 100% infection rates (I don’t believe that but cannot prove it either way) the infections do not happen within just a couple of years. It takes far longer. So as the point of this thread is vaccinating children I will continue to ask why the rush? How about a bit more caution to collect more data? As someone said above, this would be a different discussion if children were adversely affected. They are not. The opposite in fact! On that point, do we yet know why? At the moment US paediatric hospitals in some parts (the south mostly) are overrun with Covid. Ok, maybe only that's some children - but it also means that children are having their care rationed for other things (kid has symptomatic type 1 diabetes for the first time and there's no ICU beds for them - thing that could easily happen). Figures around long Covid between 1 in 7 and one in 10 (the latter was Israel). An inflammatory condition from Covid only seen in children (MIS-C). Much higher risks of myocarditis than the vaccine. Myocarditis following vaccination is self limiting. This idea it doesn't hurt kids - I don't know where this is coming from because it doesn't stack up. The disease is rampant, the risks are real. Death is not the only bad outcome, and some kids die. (I'm sure kids with pre existing conditions are just as loved, valuable, and worth saving as every other child) I'm not saying children must be vaccinated. I'm saying the choice should be offered - and I find the idea that it's a harmless disease utterly baffling. I don’t recall saying Covid wasn’t contagious or dangerous so that “idea” sure ain’t coming from me! Statistically the risks and impact on children is tiny. So again, why the rush? One in ten is tiny? I don't think it is a rush. A rush would have been alongside the adult vaccines. Extra precautions were taken for teenagers, and more again for children. Can you explain that 1 in 10 figure please. Is that 1 in 10 of kids who catch Covid develop some form of Long Covid? What was the universe the 10 came from (ie how many didn’t get Covid)? Also define the severity of the Long Covid condition and the longevity of it. Is it lifelong or a natural recovery period after a severe illness? So many variables at play. One in ten children in Israel who contract Covid develop long Covid (I don't recall the specifics off the top of my head). As I've asked before - do you really think that a child not catching Covid is in any way a realistic thing to rely upon? They'll not catch it somehow is more likely than myocarditis at three in a million? I don't *want* kids to catch it - I just can't see how that's a realistic factor to take into account when judging risk. Particularly in the UK. I will probably get accused of mansplaining myself now (which is fair enough)... When you work on big projects and programmes there is a person(s) employed to assess risk. To do that they look at; 1. Risk event: What might happen to affect your project? 2. Risk timeframe: When is it likely to happen? 3. Probability: What’s are the chances of it happening? 4. Impact: What’s the expected outcome? 5. Factors: What events might forewarn or trigger the risk event? So timeframe - based on what has happened to date with Covid and previous comparable diseases we will not see 100% infection inside of the next few years. Probability - same thing. Not everyone exposed to Covid catches Covid. And so on... Ergo - why rush when it comes to kids? Let’s build up more data. Let’s see if fears around fertility impacts are truly unfounded. I understand that that's how you're thinking about it, and I have enough of an appreciation of risk calculation to get me by. I disagree with your including "might not catch Covid" in the list. I think that's wishful thinking at best, given the mechanisms of disease (which we agree upon, as noted above). I think parents should be given the option once trials are completed and scrutinised by the relevant bodies. Well you know I am pro choice and have previously got annoyed by vaccine evangelists who advocated vaccine passports, segregating society based on vaccine status and even some promoting the idea that people choosing not to be vaxed should be denied access to NHS. I agree parents should have choice. I also think (and keep saying) we need access to comparable data sets with clear communications to inform decisions. However, I strongly believe that the Govt will consider in future excluding children from school if they are not vaxed. So vaccine passports for kids. Parents will coerced in the same way as adults are being." School vaccine mandates don't exist for the other vaccines, in the UK - why do you think they'd change decades of tradition for Covid? Particularly as the consistent messaging from the government is that we don't need to worry about kids? (Including in the vaccine literature for teenagers) And it's a long way from "data exists in trials" to a rollout, let alone a mandate, surely. | |||
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"I think he meant a child's life who medical don't need a vaccine therefore why put a child at risk. Therefore let's test your numeracy skills, Why vaccinate a child when the risk of covid is less than vaccination. Less risk should be answer therefore child dies not get vaccinated We protect children in this country not put them at risk..... Is it safer for a child to get covid unvaccinated then it is to get vaccinated? Where’s your source Obviously he needs to answer cos not sure where he going with that but I will add this (again) The statistical short term risks of Covid are higher than the short term risks of Vaccine(s). But it is not a 1 to 1 comparison because you are only exposed to the risks of Covid if you catch it and the majority of children haven’t. While you are definitely exposed to risks of vaccine if you have it. That, along with understandable lack of long term data on fertility, are why some parents are concerned. I think that is fair enough. I understand the long term concerns. How do you suggest that any child might avoid catching Covid? Why do you assert that all children will catch Covid? No other disease in known history has had a 100% infection rate. It's very contagious, as we've seen. Mitigations in schools are close to zero. Schools do tend to spread germs. Most countries, including our own, have said that disease suppression/zero Covid is a fantasy. I'm not sure that we know that no disease has a 100% infection rate. We do know that seroprevalence for other circulating corona viruses (common colds) is extremely high - the overwhelming majority of us get them. There was a suggestion early on that kids don't catch or spread Covid, but it was based on what happens when schools were closed. I think kids avoiding Covid would be so rare as to not be worthy of consideration. Ok but even if a particular strain of the common cold does have 100% infection rates (I don’t believe that but cannot prove it either way) the infections do not happen within just a couple of years. It takes far longer. So as the point of this thread is vaccinating children I will continue to ask why the rush? How about a bit more caution to collect more data? As someone said above, this would be a different discussion if children were adversely affected. They are not. The opposite in fact! On that point, do we yet know why? At the moment US paediatric hospitals in some parts (the south mostly) are overrun with Covid. Ok, maybe only that's some children - but it also means that children are having their care rationed for other things (kid has symptomatic type 1 diabetes for the first time and there's no ICU beds for them - thing that could easily happen). Figures around long Covid between 1 in 7 and one in 10 (the latter was Israel). An inflammatory condition from Covid only seen in children (MIS-C). Much higher risks of myocarditis than the vaccine. Myocarditis following vaccination is self limiting. This idea it doesn't hurt kids - I don't know where this is coming from because it doesn't stack up. The disease is rampant, the risks are real. Death is not the only bad outcome, and some kids die. (I'm sure kids with pre existing conditions are just as loved, valuable, and worth saving as every other child) I'm not saying children must be vaccinated. I'm saying the choice should be offered - and I find the idea that it's a harmless disease utterly baffling. I don’t recall saying Covid wasn’t contagious or dangerous so that “idea” sure ain’t coming from me! Statistically the risks and impact on children is tiny. So again, why the rush? One in ten is tiny? I don't think it is a rush. A rush would have been alongside the adult vaccines. Extra precautions were taken for teenagers, and more again for children. Can you explain that 1 in 10 figure please. Is that 1 in 10 of kids who catch Covid develop some form of Long Covid? What was the universe the 10 came from (ie how many didn’t get Covid)? Also define the severity of the Long Covid condition and the longevity of it. Is it lifelong or a natural recovery period after a severe illness? So many variables at play. One in ten children in Israel who contract Covid develop long Covid (I don't recall the specifics off the top of my head). As I've asked before - do you really think that a child not catching Covid is in any way a realistic thing to rely upon? They'll not catch it somehow is more likely than myocarditis at three in a million? I don't *want* kids to catch it - I just can't see how that's a realistic factor to take into account when judging risk. Particularly in the UK. I will probably get accused of mansplaining myself now (which is fair enough)... When you work on big projects and programmes there is a person(s) employed to assess risk. To do that they look at; 1. Risk event: What might happen to affect your project? 2. Risk timeframe: When is it likely to happen? 3. Probability: What’s are the chances of it happening? 4. Impact: What’s the expected outcome? 5. Factors: What events might forewarn or trigger the risk event? So timeframe - based on what has happened to date with Covid and previous comparable diseases we will not see 100% infection inside of the next few years. Probability - same thing. Not everyone exposed to Covid catches Covid. And so on... Ergo - why rush when it comes to kids? Let’s build up more data. Let’s see if fears around fertility impacts are truly unfounded. I understand that that's how you're thinking about it, and I have enough of an appreciation of risk calculation to get me by. I disagree with your including "might not catch Covid" in the list. I think that's wishful thinking at best, given the mechanisms of disease (which we agree upon, as noted above). I think parents should be given the option once trials are completed and scrutinised by the relevant bodies. Well you know I am pro choice and have previously got annoyed by vaccine evangelists who advocated vaccine passports, segregating society based on vaccine status and even some promoting the idea that people choosing not to be vaxed should be denied access to NHS. I agree parents should have choice. I also think (and keep saying) we need access to comparable data sets with clear communications to inform decisions. However, I strongly believe that the Govt will consider in future excluding children from school if they are not vaxed. So vaccine passports for kids. Parents will coerced in the same way as adults are being. School vaccine mandates don't exist for the other vaccines, in the UK - why do you think they'd change decades of tradition for Covid? Particularly as the consistent messaging from the government is that we don't need to worry about kids? (Including in the vaccine literature for teenagers) And it's a long way from "data exists in trials" to a rollout, let alone a mandate, surely." I didn’t say mandate. As with discussions we have had over the past year or more, this will be mandate by proxy/stealth. If you make life really hard and inconvenient without having the vaccine but remove those restrictions/limits if you have the vaccine then you drive behaviour (classic nudge behavioural science). They are doing it with adults. No isolation/quarantine for holiday makers who are double jabbed but all that applies if not. They can apply similar techniques for schools. Then watch the vaccine evangelists start to shout that their vaccinated kids shouldn’t share rooms/school with unvaccinated - despite us currently knowing statistical risk to children is very very low. That will be conveniently forgotten. So I say we should wait. Wait for more data. | |||
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"Out of curiosity has anyone looked at menstruation issues and fertility issues after catching Covid. I'm not seeing much research ATM One paper does have : Conclusion: Ovarian injury, including declined ovarian reserve and reproductive endocrine disorder, can be observed in women with COVID-19. More attention should be paid to their ovarian function under this pandemic, especially regarding reproductive-aged women. So I wonder if it's vaccine related or virus related ..." That would surely be a good thing to know | |||
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