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Geronimo, vaccine, TB and covid
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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TB - tuberculosis
According to the NHS, Tuberculosis (TB) is a bacterial infection spread through inhaling tiny droplets from the coughs or sneezes of an infected person.
Now, we've almost all seen the recent controversy surrounding Geronimo the Alpaca.
Since Covid is spread in a similar way to how TB is spread, if it makes sense to cull Geronimo because it's an Alpaca with TB, would it not make sense to also cull humans who are infected with covid?
Apparently, a vaccine is in the process of being made for TB, but TB has been killing humans for a much longer time than Covid.
Hope that helps. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"The tb vaccine, used to be the bcg jab, has been administered for years in humans hence its pretty much eradicated."
So, if it is pretty much eradicated, then it is clearly not totally eradicated?
Does anyone here know for certain whether Piers / Peirs Corbyn had the TB jab or not? |
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There has been a vaccine for TB in humans for many years (about 55 I think). Also antibiotics to treat TB if it is contracted. However there are now strains of TB which are resistant to both vaccines and antibiotics. And the vaccinations for all children against TB were stopped 15 years ago, as it was judged that the disease was no longer widely prevalent, instead only children in certain at risk communities are vaccinated for this.
The variants of TB which animals suffer from are different from the human TB, and the human vaccine is not effective on animals.
All of which means that the possible crossover of an animal TB into humans is another potential health crisis. My understanding is that there have always been cases of farmers and other animal workers contracting TB from their animals, but less evidence of subsequent transmission between humans. This still remains a great danger though.
So rightly or wrongly, for many years there has been a policy of culling animals with TB, rather than taking the risks of the disease spreading through the animal population. Culling has always been the primary method of controlling disease among animals, it is cheap and it is effective. And for animals that are destined to end up on the dinner table there is no moral argument to say otherwise. [Note: I'm not saying whether this is right or wrong, or whether I personally agree with it. But if animals are going to be killed anyway, there can be no arguments about killing a small number earlier than they would otherwise have been.]
So Geronimo. Not my call to make. I understand that it is somebodies pet. The test for TB may or may not be accurate in alpacas. There may or may not be a chance of Geronimo passing on TB to other animals. What is sure is that if TB did spread from Geronimo to humans, then plenty would be questioning why the standard culling policy was not carried out and why an epidemic in humans was allowed to start.
And finally, pre-emptive culling in humans. Ethically a bit dodgy. However there do seem to be plenty of voices around that quite openly say "we don't need to worry about covid, it only kills people who are old or sick, there's no need to control the spread". Maybe it's just me, but letting a disease spread uncontrolled and kill a large number of people seems to be not particularly ethical either... |
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Just FYI, TB requires prolonged close contact to acquire a sufficient dose to actually become ill with it. It's also a very slow multiplying bacterium, so doesn't behave anything like most other infectious diseases.
TB is not aerosol spread, it is mainly droplets of infected sputum.
We have pretty decent antibiotic treatment for TB, although yes there are some very resistant strains. As of yet, we cannot cure any viral disease. Some viral diseases resolve by themselves, as COVID seems to do in many people, but we cannot administer meds to remove the infection, only to support with symptoms.
This is one reason why viral disease is of far greater concern than bacterial disease. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The animal has BOVINE tuberculosis, not human TB. Humans can actually develope TB without catching, people with diabetes can develop it for example.
Bovine tuberculosis is the animal version, and spreads easily by wild animals...Hence the hugely unpopular badger culls. It can jump species and if left unchecked in the animal population could have dire consequences for some humans. The symptoms of it for humans are very ghastly, yes we have treatment but it would be very nasty to have TB.Also like Coronavirus it could in theory mutate.
So it's correct for the animal in question to be culled. Unfortunately it's someone's pet and they are understandably against it, but they are being very selfish in reality.
Farmers see whole herds culled.
No we should not cull humans with Coronavirus, that is a pretty sick joke to make. There are people on this forum who have lost family and friends to Coronavirus. You are basically saying cull all with the virus. It might be a joke but it isn't funny on any level.
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By *andKBCouple
over a year ago
Plymouth |
I wouldnt be so sure in some parts of the world that didn't happen already!! I think the nightingales were set up to be death centres originally. Very cynical thinking of me.
As for the alpaca I have conflicting views. Mostly because of my being vegan so don't agree with animals being reared for meat,etc. The BGC vaccine can be used in animals too but culling is seen as prefable. Im not sure the test is accurate, this case is 3 years on going! The animal is well and still alive. Also in that time the animal couldve been treated. Its a tough one.
I dont agree with culling humans due to covid. However, I see the argument you are making. |
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I've seen articles suggesting that the animal has had multiple skin tests for tuberculosis.
No-one has mentioned that the 'gold standard' of testing for mycobacterium (TB) in humans is the Interferon Gamma Release Assay (IGRA).
I understand that IGRA can also be used in animals.
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By *andKBCouple
over a year ago
Plymouth |
Another thing I'd like to add.
Covid tests, school kids discovered orange juice will turn a LFD positive in some cases. Tests can give false positives and I believe they are rarely used in alpacas.
So again heres an argument against covid culling. 7 of the people at my work place, myself included have had positive covid tests since last march. 1 person out of 7 actually got really sick, none of our contacts caught it. How do we know we were actually positive?? |
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