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Vaxxed vs Anti Vaxxed
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"Given that we largely can't post links in the forum *except* for media, I'm not sure how this is possible." Have to just use old fashioned citations of printed academic journals then. But there must be agreement on the referencing standard used to keep all posts on equal footing. Given that we are in the UK I suggest that everyone should use the Harvard referencing style as standardised in "British Standard BS ISO 690:2010 Information and documentation. Guidelines for bibliographic references and citations to information resources."  | |||
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"Whose one the right side of history..state your case backed by facts with a link to your sources. No media sources (bbc/red top papers) unless direct quotes from academics/organisations Lets settle this debate ( or at least attempt to) "After you. | |||
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"This thread is basically saying let's debate reality v fantasy." .
On the known, knowns there really is no debate to be had! | |||
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"Whose one the right side of history..state your case backed by facts with a link to your sources. No media sources (bbc/red top papers) unless direct quotes from academics/organisations Lets settle this debate ( or at least attempt to) "In the interests of impartiality(which ib hink youbwish to promote), I'm just querying why you conflate the BBC with red tops(ie tabloids) , and why you exclude other media sources such as traditional broadsheets. Additionally, I take it if you wanted to exclude tabloids(redtops) then this s also includes the Mail and the Express. Not trying to shit stir, just clarify. | |||
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"Given that we largely can't post links in the forum *except* for media, I'm not sure how this is possible. Have to just use old fashioned citations of printed academic journals then. But there must be agreement on the referencing standard used to keep all posts on equal footing. Given that we are in the UK I suggest that everyone should use the Harvard referencing style as standardised in "British Standard BS ISO 690:2010 Information and documentation. Guidelines for bibliographic references and citations to information resources." "Been a long time since I did my masters. I did use Google scholar a lot to source peer re_iewed research. I've seen Google ridiculed in various threads though so I shall sadly bow out of this debate and unfortunately miss the literary car crash that ensues | |||
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"Whose one the right side of history..state your case backed by facts with a link to your sources. No media sources (bbc/red top papers) unless direct quotes from academics/organisations Lets settle this debate ( or at least attempt to) "Déjà vu this thread…do you not think this discussion is boring now? | |||
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"I think it should be settled Harry Hill stylee. FIGHT!!!!! " Good plan  | |||
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"Given that we largely can't post links in the forum *except* for media, I'm not sure how this is possible." This . | |||
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"This will never be resolved. Neither “side” will change their stance. I don’t care if you choose to have it or don’t. It’s the bullying, coercion, incentives and threats to remove freedoms that I think is wrong. Saying that those who choose not to have it are “selfish” and those who choose to have it are “sheep” is the type of playground shit that weakens debate and needs to end IMO " Name calling is the domain of mass debaters..... | |||
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"The cdc director said the vaccinated can still catch and pass on covid, and that the viral load is the same. The only difference is the vaccinated are less likely to have severe symptoms. That said in Europe the vaccine has been associated with 17 thousand deaths and 2 million injuries, half of which were classified as serious, ie requiring hospital. " The cdc only said this about the Delta varriant. Any particular reason you left this crucial information out? The 17k deaths and the 2 million injuries (!?) are from a database that collects reports of symptoms (ranging from headaques and itchiness very serious);suspected to be from the vaccines from doctors, patients and relatives of the patients. The date on this database will be evaluated by the EU health authorities. Any particular reason you left this crucial information out? | |||
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"Whose one the right side of history..state your case backed by facts with a link to your sources. No media sources (bbc/red top papers) unless direct quotes from academics/organisations Lets settle this debate ( or at least attempt to) "Your very first few words "Whose one the right side of history" suggest your mind is already made up. Given that people have posted credible links to many of your previous comments, and you've completely ignored them, there seems little point to your thread. E | |||
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"Whose one the right side of history..state your case backed by facts with a link to your sources. No media sources (bbc/red top papers) unless direct quotes from academics/organisations Lets settle this debate ( or at least attempt to) "What part of the debate are you seeking to re_iew here? And which side are you on and why? Ps are pre prints allowed ? | |||
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"Had both of mine tbh there is no point having this conversation as having both jabs only reduces the risk of hospitalizations so in reality it don't really do much " So we put you in the anti vax basket I guess lol | |||
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"This will never be resolved. Neither “side” will change their stance." This . | |||
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"Had both of mine tbh there is no point having this conversation as having both jabs only reduces the risk of hospitalizations so in reality it don't really do much So we put you in the anti vax basket I guess lol" The exact opposite I'd suggest. E | |||
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"Whose one the right side of history..state your case backed by facts with a link to your sources. No media sources (bbc/red top papers) unless direct quotes from academics/organisations Lets settle this debate ( or at least attempt to) "cant understand why the vacinated are worried about un vaxed if you had jabs arnt you more safe x so shouldnt be a prob meeting an unjabbed ?? | |||
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"Whose one the right side of history..state your case backed by facts with a link to your sources. No media sources (bbc/red top papers) unless direct quotes from academics/organisations Lets settle this debate ( or at least attempt to) cant understand why the vacinated are worried about un vaxed if you had jabs arnt you more safe x so shouldnt be a prob meeting an unjabbed ??"Who said anything about meeting, in this thread? | |||
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"I think you a making a mistake if you dont get vaccinated, I'm already getting messages from people who WONT meet vaccinated people??? Its bazzar " Yeah but really? Are those people worth meeting? | |||
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"Globally recognised scientists like Doctor Martens, Dr. Pepper and Dr. Oetker have expressed their doubts about the vaccines." I only take advice from Dr Poppadopulous. | |||
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I'm not taking the risk | |||
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"Why is it the job of those who have taken the vaccine to convince anti vaxxers otherwise?. Anti vaxxers constantly move the goal posts. It's not my job to debunk their own lies." Not everybody who is reluctant to have the jabs is an anti-vaxxer or conspiracy theorist. Personally I am hesitant about having them for two reasons. Firstly the speed at which it has been rolled out makes me think that certain corners have been cut and we also can't say for certain that there won't be side effects years down the line. Secondly, right now my immune system/general health is working great. I've worked throughout, not WFH or furlough. I'm concerned about putting something in my body which will screw around with the immune system. If it ain't broke why try n fix it? However its likely that I will end up having the vaccine sooner rather than later for the simple reason that the governments of this world are hell bent on pushing it on people (to say they done all they can to get back normailty). The reality is that without being vaccinated it won't be possible to do certain things (namely foreign travel). This does not mean that I feel comfortable about taking an experimental drug, I'd feel more confident and happy without it. | |||
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"Given that we largely can't post links in the forum *except* for media, I'm not sure how this is possible. Have to just use old fashioned citations of printed academic journals then. But there must be agreement on the referencing standard used to keep all posts on equal footing. Given that we are in the UK I suggest that everyone should use the Harvard referencing style as standardised in "British Standard BS ISO 690:2010 Information and documentation. Guidelines for bibliographic references and citations to information resources." "given that we are only here for the sex that just went way over my head.hollie | |||
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"Why is it the job of those who have taken the vaccine to convince anti vaxxers otherwise?. Anti vaxxers constantly move the goal posts. It's not my job to debunk their own lies. Not everybody who is reluctant to have the jabs is an anti-vaxxer or conspiracy theorist. Personally I am hesitant about having them for two reasons. Firstly the speed at which it has been rolled out makes me think that certain corners have been cut and we also can't say for certain that there won't be side effects years down the line. Secondly, right now my immune system/general health is working great. I've worked throughout, not WFH or furlough. I'm concerned about putting something in my body which will screw around with the immune system. If it ain't broke why try n fix it? However its likely that I will end up having the vaccine sooner rather than later for the simple reason that the governments of this world are hell bent on pushing it on people (to say they done all they can to get back normailty). The reality is that without being vaccinated it won't be possible to do certain things (namely foreign travel). This does not mean that I feel comfortable about taking an experimental drug, I'd feel more confident and happy without it." Out of interest, what experimental drug are you talking about? I'm not aware of experimental drugs being used to vaccinate against Covid or any mutations. E | |||
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" The Vaxed could turn into super spreaders. " How did you come to that conclusion? Don't clubs require a negative test and proof of vaccination? | |||
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"This will never be resolved. Neither “side” will change their stance. I don’t care if you choose to have it or don’t. It’s the bullying, coercion, incentives and threats to remove freedoms that I think is wrong. Saying that those who choose not to have it are “selfish” and those who choose to have it are “sheep” is the type of playground shit that weakens debate and needs to end IMO " I'm inclined to agree with this. I do wonder why the anti's get so vehement? Do they really feel they're on shaky ground and think if they shout loud enough it'll make pro's back down? Surely there's no need to get nasty over such a thing?  | |||
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"My issue is both vaxed and unvaxed can transmit the virus yet only double vaxed will be allowed into some clubs as of September???? The Vaxed could turn into super spreaders. Covid passports may make it ompossible for individual choice. " Vaccines reduce transmission as well (source: PHE) | |||
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"This will never be resolved. Neither “side” will change their stance. I don’t care if you choose to have it or don’t. It’s the bullying, coercion, incentives and threats to remove freedoms that I think is wrong. Saying that those who choose not to have it are “selfish” and those who choose to have it are “sheep” is the type of playground shit that weakens debate and needs to end IMO I'm inclined to agree with this. I do wonder why the anti's get so vehement? Do they really feel they're on shaky ground and think if they shout loud enough it'll make pro's back down? Surely there's no need to get nasty over such a thing? "What am I going to do, suck the vaccine out of my arm? Chop my arm off? (Good thing I went for my non dominant side I guess  ) | |||
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"Whose one the right side of history..state your case backed by facts with a link to your sources. No media sources (bbc/red top papers) unless direct quotes from academics/organisations Lets settle this debate ( or at least attempt to) "This is the wrong “debate” as it is not a binary issue for a still significant sized group - the vaccine hesitant. On one side you have the pro-vaxxers, in the middle the vax hesitant and on the other side the anti-vaxxers. You have little chance of convincing anyone except those in the middle. And the only way to do that is through civilised, informed discussion rather than shouting at each other, hurling insults and advocating draconian rules by way of coercion. | |||
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"My issue is both vaxed and unvaxed can transmit the virus yet only double vaxed will be allowed into some clubs as of September???? The Vaxed could turn into super spreaders. Covid passports may make it ompossible for individual choice. " This is why testing should be the focus, not passes for the vaccinated. No test, no admission - I can absolutely see the reason for this and I can’t believe that this isn’t the route being taken. I would feel 100% safer in a confined space with people who have tested negatively than the untested vaccinated. | |||
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"Why do people call this a vaccine it's just like a flu jab you will need it every year. We don't get boosters for TB MMR hep/c the science can't say how long jabs will last 6months 9 months a year. We will all end up like a tetly tea bag with the amount of jabs we will get I just wish they would be honest with us about these jabs " They can’t afford to be honest because it’s likely there would be less uptake if they were honest, | |||
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"Whose one the right side of history..state your case backed by facts with a link to your sources. No media sources (bbc/red top papers) unless direct quotes from academics/organisations Lets settle this debate ( or at least attempt to) "Harry Hill said there's only one way to settle this.... | |||
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"Whose one the right side of history..state your case backed by facts with a link to your sources. No media sources (bbc/red top papers) unless direct quotes from academics/organisations Lets settle this debate ( or at least attempt to) "Yes fab is often the place to settle a debate. Although it's not really a debate when only 5% of people are on one side of the discussion. Its more a case of just living with the fact that some people can never be swayed from their beliefs no matter how much science and facts state the opposite. | |||
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"If you look at vaccines in general, over history. Is there any situation where they have turned out to be a mistake? " More importantly, we've always been able to learn from and improve things. The awful Thalidomide experience, some years ago, was the most catastrophic result imaginable but it resulted in the pharmaceutical industry and legislative processes having been permanently changed, for the benefit of us all. | |||
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"Whose one the right side of history..state your case backed by facts with a link to your sources. No media sources (bbc/red top papers) unless direct quotes from academics/organisations Lets settle this debate ( or at least attempt to)
This is the wrong “debate” as it is not a binary issue for a still significant sized group - the vaccine hesitant.
On one side you have the pro-vaxxers, in the middle the vax hesitant and on the other side the anti-vaxxers.
You have little chance of convincing anyone except those in the middle. And the only way to do that is through civilised, informed discussion rather than shouting at each other, hurling insults and advocating draconian rules by way of coercion."I think the only way that's possible, is if people have an open mind and motivation to potentially change. | |||
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"If you look at vaccines in general, over history. Is there any situation where they have turned out to be a mistake? More importantly, we've always been able to learn from and improve things. The awful Thalidomide experience, some years ago, was the most catastrophic result imaginable but it resulted in the pharmaceutical industry and legislative processes having been permanently changed, for the benefit of us all. " Pfizers track record is not that good for telling the truth its well documented | |||
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"Right side of history?? So are we saying Donald trump was on the right side of history today? Seeming there wouldn't be a vaccine without his operation warp speed. I've had covid and had 3 doctors give their own opinion on whether or not I should get the vaccine... 2 told me not to as I've already had the virus and built my natural immunity. The 3rd told me I could kill somebody if I don't wear a mask after having the vaccine. Get it if you want don't if you don't but dont try and guilt trip anybody into your way of thinking." Initially they were telling folks who had had covid not to have it (I’ve had covid) They were also telling those with anaphylaxis (like me) that it was dangerous to have it, then they changed their mind and said “maybe you could have it” then they changed their minds again and said “you’ll probably be ok, have it”. How long does the vaccine cover me for dr? Don’t know. Will I need a booster, and if so, how many? Don’t know. Can I still catch it? Yes, can I still pass it on? Yes. Will it keep me out of hospital though? We hope so. This is an actual conversation with my dr! Sure, let me roll up my sleeve, I have tonnes of confidence | |||
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"Why is it the job of those who have taken the vaccine to convince anti vaxxers otherwise?. Anti vaxxers constantly move the goal posts. It's not my job to debunk their own lies. Not everybody who is reluctant to have the jabs is an anti-vaxxer or conspiracy theorist. Personally I am hesitant about having them for two reasons. Firstly the speed at which it has been rolled out makes me think that certain corners have been cut and we also can't say for certain that there won't be side effects years down the line. Secondly, right now my immune system/general health is working great. I've worked throughout, not WFH or furlough. I'm concerned about putting something in my body which will screw around with the immune system. If it ain't broke why try n fix it? However its likely that I will end up having the vaccine sooner rather than later for the simple reason that the governments of this world are hell bent on pushing it on people (to say they done all they can to get back normailty). The reality is that without being vaccinated it won't be possible to do certain things (namely foreign travel). This does not mean that I feel comfortable about taking an experimental drug, I'd feel more confident and happy without it." The vaccines have been through the same development and clinical trials stages that other medicine, including vaccines, have done too. Approvals processes are much improved from the past too There are no experimental vaccines that are being deployed outside of clinical trials - the approved vaccines here are beyond their clinical trials, demonstrating safety and efficacy. They have now been delivered several billion times to people and show incredibly positive results. | |||
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"Whose one the right side of history..state your case backed by facts with a link to your sources. No media sources (bbc/red top papers) unless direct quotes from academics/organisations Lets settle this debate ( or at least attempt to) "There is in reality zero debate. The infection rates, the % of infected requiring hospital admission and likewise critical care all clearly show the benefits of vaccination when compared to previous infection spikes. Infection is slowed. Resilience to serious infection is increased. The chance of death or life changing damage is again decreased. That’s the simple conclusion. There’s no argument against those figures. | |||
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"Right side of history?? So are we saying Donald trump was on the right side of history today? Seeming there wouldn't be a vaccine without his operation warp speed. I've had covid and had 3 doctors give their own opinion on whether or not I should get the vaccine... 2 told me not to as I've already had the virus and built my natural immunity. The 3rd told me I could kill somebody if I don't wear a mask after having the vaccine. Get it if you want don't if you don't but dont try and guilt trip anybody into your way of thinking. Initially they were telling folks who had had covid not to have it (I’ve had covid) They were also telling those with anaphylaxis (like me) that it was dangerous to have it, then they changed their mind and said “maybe you could have it” then they changed their minds again and said “you’ll probably be ok, have it”. How long does the vaccine cover me for dr? Don’t know. Will I need a booster, and if so, how many? Don’t know. Can I still catch it? Yes, can I still pass it on? Yes. Will it keep me out of hospital though? We hope so. This is an actual conversation with my dr! Sure, let me roll up my sleeve, I have tonnes of confidence "That's the scientific process for you, as well as the huge levels of expertise that has been achieved. Things change and we benefit from it, by managing today, based on what we know today. | |||
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"Right side of history?? So are we saying Donald trump was on the right side of history today? Seeming there wouldn't be a vaccine without his operation warp speed. I've had covid and had 3 doctors give their own opinion on whether or not I should get the vaccine... 2 told me not to as I've already had the virus and built my natural immunity. The 3rd told me I could kill somebody if I don't wear a mask after having the vaccine. Get it if you want don't if you don't but dont try and guilt trip anybody into your way of thinking. Initially they were telling folks who had had covid not to have it (I’ve had covid) They were also telling those with anaphylaxis (like me) that it was dangerous to have it, then they changed their mind and said “maybe you could have it” then they changed their minds again and said “you’ll probably be ok, have it”. How long does the vaccine cover me for dr? Don’t know. Will I need a booster, and if so, how many? Don’t know. Can I still catch it? Yes, can I still pass it on? Yes. Will it keep me out of hospital though? We hope so. This is an actual conversation with my dr! Sure, let me roll up my sleeve, I have tonnes of confidence "Doctors and scientists are just like anyone else, in that they can’t see into the future. As a consequence, advice and expectation will change as they learn more. | |||
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"Right side of history?? So are we saying Donald trump was on the right side of history today? Seeming there wouldn't be a vaccine without his operation warp speed. I've had covid and had 3 doctors give their own opinion on whether or not I should get the vaccine... 2 told me not to as I've already had the virus and built my natural immunity. The 3rd told me I could kill somebody if I don't wear a mask after having the vaccine. Get it if you want don't if you don't but dont try and guilt trip anybody into your way of thinking. Initially they were telling folks who had had covid not to have it (I’ve had covid) They were also telling those with anaphylaxis (like me) that it was dangerous to have it, then they changed their mind and said “maybe you could have it” then they changed their minds again and said “you’ll probably be ok, have it”. How long does the vaccine cover me for dr? Don’t know. Will I need a booster, and if so, how many? Don’t know. Can I still catch it? Yes, can I still pass it on? Yes. Will it keep me out of hospital though? We hope so. This is an actual conversation with my dr! Sure, let me roll up my sleeve, I have tonnes of confidence
That's the scientific process for you, as well as the huge levels of expertise that has been achieved. Things change and we benefit from it, by managing today, based on what we know today. "So we drink the bleach because we are told to today... but tomorrow when they realise it's not good for you, you can't undrink it | |||
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"Right side of history?? So are we saying Donald trump was on the right side of history today? Seeming there wouldn't be a vaccine without his operation warp speed. I've had covid and had 3 doctors give their own opinion on whether or not I should get the vaccine... 2 told me not to as I've already had the virus and built my natural immunity. The 3rd told me I could kill somebody if I don't wear a mask after having the vaccine. Get it if you want don't if you don't but dont try and guilt trip anybody into your way of thinking. Initially they were telling folks who had had covid not to have it (I’ve had covid) They were also telling those with anaphylaxis (like me) that it was dangerous to have it, then they changed their mind and said “maybe you could have it” then they changed their minds again and said “you’ll probably be ok, have it”. How long does the vaccine cover me for dr? Don’t know. Will I need a booster, and if so, how many? Don’t know. Can I still catch it? Yes, can I still pass it on? Yes. Will it keep me out of hospital though? We hope so. This is an actual conversation with my dr! Sure, let me roll up my sleeve, I have tonnes of confidence
That's the scientific process for you, as well as the huge levels of expertise that has been achieved. Things change and we benefit from it, by managing today, based on what we know today. "But, in my shoes, you can understand where my fears come from? What if based on tomorrow, they decide, actually, people with anaphylaxis shouldn’t have the vaccine? I’ve had covid, I have no antibodies left but hopefully some T cell memory. I’m in what I would class as a low risk group, as long as I stay away from peanuts, I have no underlying health complaints. So based on all of the above and the moved messages I’ve received from the medics I’ve consulted, I have declined, for now. I think that’s sensible. I’ve sought medical advice, I’ve read many peer-received articles, I’ve done my due diligence to the best of my ability. Does that make me a selfish, crazy, anti vaxxer? I don’t think so | |||
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"Right side of history?? So are we saying Donald trump was on the right side of history today? Seeming there wouldn't be a vaccine without his operation warp speed. I've had covid and had 3 doctors give their own opinion on whether or not I should get the vaccine... 2 told me not to as I've already had the virus and built my natural immunity. The 3rd told me I could kill somebody if I don't wear a mask after having the vaccine. Get it if you want don't if you don't but dont try and guilt trip anybody into your way of thinking. Initially they were telling folks who had had covid not to have it (I’ve had covid) They were also telling those with anaphylaxis (like me) that it was dangerous to have it, then they changed their mind and said “maybe you could have it” then they changed their minds again and said “you’ll probably be ok, have it”. How long does the vaccine cover me for dr? Don’t know. Will I need a booster, and if so, how many? Don’t know. Can I still catch it? Yes, can I still pass it on? Yes. Will it keep me out of hospital though? We hope so. This is an actual conversation with my dr! Sure, let me roll up my sleeve, I have tonnes of confidence
Doctors and scientists are just like anyone else, in that they can’t see into the future. As a consequence, advice and expectation will change as they learn more."It does! And that’s the point that lots of vaccine hesitant are making. What happens in the long term - no one knows.Things don’t always change for the better in science as more is learnt. That’s what I want, long term information and it just isn’t available yet. | |||
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"Right side of history?? So are we saying Donald trump was on the right side of history today? Seeming there wouldn't be a vaccine without his operation warp speed. I've had covid and had 3 doctors give their own opinion on whether or not I should get the vaccine... 2 told me not to as I've already had the virus and built my natural immunity. The 3rd told me I could kill somebody if I don't wear a mask after having the vaccine. Get it if you want don't if you don't but dont try and guilt trip anybody into your way of thinking. Initially they were telling folks who had had covid not to have it (I’ve had covid) They were also telling those with anaphylaxis (like me) that it was dangerous to have it, then they changed their mind and said “maybe you could have it” then they changed their minds again and said “you’ll probably be ok, have it”. How long does the vaccine cover me for dr? Don’t know. Will I need a booster, and if so, how many? Don’t know. Can I still catch it? Yes, can I still pass it on? Yes. Will it keep me out of hospital though? We hope so. This is an actual conversation with my dr! Sure, let me roll up my sleeve, I have tonnes of confidence
That's the scientific process for you, as well as the huge levels of expertise that has been achieved. Things change and we benefit from it, by managing today, based on what we know today.
So we drink the bleach because we are told to today... but tomorrow when they realise it's not good for you, you can't undrink it" | |||
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"I’m pro vax had both. But anti vaccine passport. People should be able to make a decision for health reasons not because they can’t go the cinema without one. Also there are too many people left out. My mum for example is on imuno suppression drugs so can’t have the vaccine. But she has had covid snd has antibodies. However she can’t go on holiday and soon won’t be able to go to other places. I would be more pro passports. If it was double jab, antibodies or negative test then people have options. " I believe it should be “prove you don’t have the virus and you can come in” rather then prove you’ve been jabbed. That’s if this is honestly all about reducing transmission and not about coercing people into uptake of the vaccine | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Right side of history?? So are we saying Donald trump was on the right side of history today? Seeming there wouldn't be a vaccine without his operation warp speed. I've had covid and had 3 doctors give their own opinion on whether or not I should get the vaccine... 2 told me not to as I've already had the virus and built my natural immunity. The 3rd told me I could kill somebody if I don't wear a mask after having the vaccine. Get it if you want don't if you don't but dont try and guilt trip anybody into your way of thinking. Initially they were telling folks who had had covid not to have it (I’ve had covid) They were also telling those with anaphylaxis (like me) that it was dangerous to have it, then they changed their mind and said “maybe you could have it” then they changed their minds again and said “you’ll probably be ok, have it”. How long does the vaccine cover me for dr? Don’t know. Will I need a booster, and if so, how many? Don’t know. Can I still catch it? Yes, can I still pass it on? Yes. Will it keep me out of hospital though? We hope so. This is an actual conversation with my dr! Sure, let me roll up my sleeve, I have tonnes of confidence
Doctors and scientists are just like anyone else, in that they can’t see into the future. As a consequence, advice and expectation will change as they learn more.
It does! And that’s the point that lots of vaccine hesitant are making. What happens in the long term - no one knows.Things don’t always change for the better in science as more is learnt. That’s what I want, long term information and it just isn’t available yet."Of course - but faced with a life threatening virus, society will take the path of least risk to society, and currently that is getting as many people as possible vaccinated. While you wait for long term information, you potentially put yourself and others at a higher risk of being affected by Covid. That will be your choice, and one you will have reasoned for and justified to yourself, but it may mean you face restrictions on your lifestyle as a result. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I’m pro vax had both. But anti vaccine passport. People should be able to make a decision for health reasons not because they can’t go the cinema without one. Also there are too many people left out. My mum for example is on imuno suppression drugs so can’t have the vaccine. But she has had covid snd has antibodies. However she can’t go on holiday and soon won’t be able to go to other places. I would be more pro passports. If it was double jab, antibodies or negative test then people have options. I believe it should be “prove you don’t have the virus and you can come in” rather then prove you’ve been jabbed. That’s if this is honestly all about reducing transmission and not about coercing people into uptake of the vaccine "Unfortunately this is unworkable in practice. It’s relatively quick easy to check vaccination status, but conducting 50,000 tests that require a thirty minute confirmation period on a crowd entering a sports stadium would be logistically impossible in terms of running a timely event. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I’m pro vax had both. But anti vaccine passport. People should be able to make a decision for health reasons not because they can’t go the cinema without one. Also there are too many people left out. My mum for example is on imuno suppression drugs so can’t have the vaccine. But she has had covid snd has antibodies. However she can’t go on holiday and soon won’t be able to go to other places. I would be more pro passports. If it was double jab, antibodies or negative test then people have options. I believe it should be “prove you don’t have the virus and you can come in” rather then prove you’ve been jabbed. That’s if this is honestly all about reducing transmission and not about coercing people into uptake of the vaccine "It's completely about uptake though. You don't blackmale (purposeful spellng to get aroind word filters) people into doing something if you want people to decide for themselves, the passport thing is disgusting and anybody that supports it IS on the wrong side of history. And how do you prove you don't have it? If I take an antibody test I have the antibodies so therefore I have covid in my system. We reached herd immunity almost 6 months ago, the elderly and infirm are at around 80% vaccinated with only the people that have chosen not to get jabbed remaining in those groups. The 18-34 age range is over 75%... 100% is not likely to ever happen and demanding it should is never going to work out for the demanders, especially when the majority of the unvaxxed are doing so for their religious beliefs. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I’m pro vax had both. But anti vaccine passport. People should be able to make a decision for health reasons not because they can’t go the cinema without one. Also there are too many people left out. My mum for example is on imuno suppression drugs so can’t have the vaccine. But she has had covid snd has antibodies. However she can’t go on holiday and soon won’t be able to go to other places. I would be more pro passports. If it was double jab, antibodies or negative test then people have options. I believe it should be “prove you don’t have the virus and you can come in” rather then prove you’ve been jabbed. That’s if this is honestly all about reducing transmission and not about coercing people into uptake of the vaccine
It's completely about uptake though.
You don't blackmale (purposeful spellng to get aroind word filters) people into doing something if you want people to decide for themselves, the passport thing is disgusting and anybody that supports it IS on the wrong side of history.
And how do you prove you don't have it? If I take an antibody test I have the antibodies so therefore I have covid in my system.
We reached herd immunity almost 6 months ago, the elderly and infirm are at around 80% vaccinated with only the people that have chosen not to get jabbed remaining in those groups. The 18-34 age range is over 75%...
100% is not likely to ever happen and demanding it should is never going to work out for the demanders, especially when the majority of the unvaxxed are doing so for their religious beliefs."Ok I'm not d*unk but that's written like I am... proof read | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I’m pro vax had both. But anti vaccine passport. People should be able to make a decision for health reasons not because they can’t go the cinema without one. Also there are too many people left out. My mum for example is on imuno suppression drugs so can’t have the vaccine. But she has had covid snd has antibodies. However she can’t go on holiday and soon won’t be able to go to other places. I would be more pro passports. If it was double jab, antibodies or negative test then people have options. I believe it should be “prove you don’t have the virus and you can come in” rather then prove you’ve been jabbed. That’s if this is honestly all about reducing transmission and not about coercing people into uptake of the vaccine
It's completely about uptake though.
You don't blackmale (purposeful spellng to get aroind word filters) people into doing something if you want people to decide for themselves, the passport thing is disgusting and anybody that supports it IS on the wrong side of history.
And how do you prove you don't have it? If I take an antibody test I have the antibodies so therefore I have covid in my system.
We reached herd immunity almost 6 months ago, the elderly and infirm are at around 80% vaccinated with only the people that have chosen not to get jabbed remaining in those groups. The 18-34 age range is over 75%...
100% is not likely to ever happen and demanding it should is never going to work out for the demanders, especially when the majority of the unvaxxed are doing so for their religious beliefs."Having antibodies does not mean you have the virus. It means you have had the virus, fought it off and created antibodies to fidget off a future reinfection | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Right side of history?? So are we saying Donald trump was on the right side of history today? Seeming there wouldn't be a vaccine without his operation warp speed. I've had covid and had 3 doctors give their own opinion on whether or not I should get the vaccine... 2 told me not to as I've already had the virus and built my natural immunity. The 3rd told me I could kill somebody if I don't wear a mask after having the vaccine. Get it if you want don't if you don't but dont try and guilt trip anybody into your way of thinking. Initially they were telling folks who had had covid not to have it (I’ve had covid) They were also telling those with anaphylaxis (like me) that it was dangerous to have it, then they changed their mind and said “maybe you could have it” then they changed their minds again and said “you’ll probably be ok, have it”. How long does the vaccine cover me for dr? Don’t know. Will I need a booster, and if so, how many? Don’t know. Can I still catch it? Yes, can I still pass it on? Yes. Will it keep me out of hospital though? We hope so. This is an actual conversation with my dr! Sure, let me roll up my sleeve, I have tonnes of confidence
Doctors and scientists are just like anyone else, in that they can’t see into the future. As a consequence, advice and expectation will change as they learn more.
It does! And that’s the point that lots of vaccine hesitant are making. What happens in the long term - no one knows.Things don’t always change for the better in science as more is learnt. That’s what I want, long term information and it just isn’t available yet.
Of course - but faced with a life threatening virus, society will take the path of least risk to society, and currently that is getting as many people as possible vaccinated.
While you wait for long term information, you potentially put yourself and others at a higher risk of being affected by Covid. That will be your choice, and one you will have reasoned for and justified to yourself, but it may mean you face restrictions on your lifestyle as a result."That’s fine, luckily I rarely go out anyway, I’m just not willing to take the risk. I’ve been given far too much conflicting information by medics and as a single parent to children who have just lost their father, I have to make sure that I keep myself as far away from risk as possible. Hence my decision | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I’m pro vax had both. But anti vaccine passport. People should be able to make a decision for health reasons not because they can’t go the cinema without one. Also there are too many people left out. My mum for example is on imuno suppression drugs so can’t have the vaccine. But she has had covid snd has antibodies. However she can’t go on holiday and soon won’t be able to go to other places. I would be more pro passports. If it was double jab, antibodies or negative test then people have options. I believe it should be “prove you don’t have the virus and you can come in” rather then prove you’ve been jabbed. That’s if this is honestly all about reducing transmission and not about coercing people into uptake of the vaccine
Unfortunately this is unworkable in practice. It’s relatively quick easy to check vaccination status, but conducting 50,000 tests that require a thirty minute confirmation period on a crowd entering a sports stadium would be logistically impossible in terms of running a timely event."It would be difficult, no doubt. But if we are purely talking about reducing virus transmission, this would be the only way of doing that. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Right side of history?? So are we saying Donald trump was on the right side of history today? Seeming there wouldn't be a vaccine without his operation warp speed. I've had covid and had 3 doctors give their own opinion on whether or not I should get the vaccine... 2 told me not to as I've already had the virus and built my natural immunity. The 3rd told me I could kill somebody if I don't wear a mask after having the vaccine. Get it if you want don't if you don't but dont try and guilt trip anybody into your way of thinking. Initially they were telling folks who had had covid not to have it (I’ve had covid) They were also telling those with anaphylaxis (like me) that it was dangerous to have it, then they changed their mind and said “maybe you could have it” then they changed their minds again and said “you’ll probably be ok, have it”. How long does the vaccine cover me for dr? Don’t know. Will I need a booster, and if so, how many? Don’t know. Can I still catch it? Yes, can I still pass it on? Yes. Will it keep me out of hospital though? We hope so. This is an actual conversation with my dr! Sure, let me roll up my sleeve, I have tonnes of confidence
That's the scientific process for you, as well as the huge levels of expertise that has been achieved. Things change and we benefit from it, by managing today, based on what we know today.
But, in my shoes, you can understand where my fears come from?
What if based on tomorrow, they decide, actually, people with anaphylaxis shouldn’t have the vaccine? I’ve had covid, I have no antibodies left but hopefully some T cell memory. I’m in what I would class as a low risk group, as long as I stay away from peanuts, I have no underlying health complaints. So based on all of the above and the moved messages I’ve received from the medics I’ve consulted, I have declined, for now. I think that’s sensible. I’ve sought medical advice, I’ve read many peer-received articles, I’ve done my due diligence to the best of my ability. Does that make me a selfish, crazy, anti vaxxer? I don’t think so "As a fellow peanut allergy sufferer... the advice is actually fairly clear. There’s no risk presented by any of the 3 vaccines but you would likely be given Moderna as it has the lowest chance of any unassociated reaction. Most “underlying conditions’ sufferers are given it. Your anaphylaxis quite dramatically increases your chance of major issues with a serious covid infection but doesn’t present any added complications for vaccination. Not sure where you’re clinical insight came from but perhaps ask for a second opinion and importantly keep yourself safe x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I’m pro vax had both. But anti vaccine passport. People should be able to make a decision for health reasons not because they can’t go the cinema without one. Also there are too many people left out. My mum for example is on imuno suppression drugs so can’t have the vaccine. But she has had covid snd has antibodies. However she can’t go on holiday and soon won’t be able to go to other places. I would be more pro passports. If it was double jab, antibodies or negative test then people have options. I believe it should be “prove you don’t have the virus and you can come in” rather then prove you’ve been jabbed. That’s if this is honestly all about reducing transmission and not about coercing people into uptake of the vaccine
It's completely about uptake though.
You don't blackmale (purposeful spellng to get aroind word filters) people into doing something if you want people to decide for themselves, the passport thing is disgusting and anybody that supports it IS on the wrong side of history.
And how do you prove you don't have it? If I take an antibody test I have the antibodies so therefore I have covid in my system.
We reached herd immunity almost 6 months ago, the elderly and infirm are at around 80% vaccinated with only the people that have chosen not to get jabbed remaining in those groups. The 18-34 age range is over 75%...
100% is not likely to ever happen and demanding it should is never going to work out for the demanders, especially when the majority of the unvaxxed are doing so for their religious beliefs."I've not heard most unvaccinated are doing it for religious beliefs. Wheres that stat from ? As I've said before, it's a difficult societal balancing act to allow people to opt out at an individual level yet let them ride on the coattails of those who opt in. Generally such people are outcasted but for vaccines we are more conflicted. Eg we don't let people opt out of taxes just because they don't value them, and will (should) punidh those who do dodge taxes. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I’m pro vax had both. But anti vaccine passport. People should be able to make a decision for health reasons not because they can’t go the cinema without one. Also there are too many people left out. My mum for example is on imuno suppression drugs so can’t have the vaccine. But she has had covid snd has antibodies. However she can’t go on holiday and soon won’t be able to go to other places. I would be more pro passports. If it was double jab, antibodies or negative test then people have options. I believe it should be “prove you don’t have the virus and you can come in” rather then prove you’ve been jabbed. That’s if this is honestly all about reducing transmission and not about coercing people into uptake of the vaccine
Unfortunately this is unworkable in practice. It’s relatively quick easy to check vaccination status, but conducting 50,000 tests that require a thirty minute confirmation period on a crowd entering a sports stadium would be logistically impossible in terms of running a timely event.
It would be difficult, no doubt. But if we are purely talking about reducing virus transmission, this would be the only way of doing that. "But if we are purely talking about reducing virus transmission, a better way entirely would be to lock us all in our homes until the virus dies out on these shores, and do not let anyone enter or leave the country ever again. Obviously it’s not purely about reducing virus transmission, it’s about balancing the reduction in virus transmission with quality of life and function of society. As such, choices will be made. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I’m pro vax had both. But anti vaccine passport. People should be able to make a decision for health reasons not because they can’t go the cinema without one. Also there are too many people left out. My mum for example is on imuno suppression drugs so can’t have the vaccine. But she has had covid snd has antibodies. However she can’t go on holiday and soon won’t be able to go to other places. I would be more pro passports. If it was double jab, antibodies or negative test then people have options. I believe it should be “prove you don’t have the virus and you can come in” rather then prove you’ve been jabbed. That’s if this is honestly all about reducing transmission and not about coercing people into uptake of the vaccine
It's completely about uptake though.
You don't blackmale (purposeful spellng to get aroind word filters) people into doing something if you want people to decide for themselves, the passport thing is disgusting and anybody that supports it IS on the wrong side of history.
And how do you prove you don't have it? If I take an antibody test I have the antibodies so therefore I have covid in my system.
We reached herd immunity almost 6 months ago, the elderly and infirm are at around 80% vaccinated with only the people that have chosen not to get jabbed remaining in those groups. The 18-34 age range is over 75%...
100% is not likely to ever happen and demanding it should is never going to work out for the demanders, especially when the majority of the unvaxxed are doing so for their religious beliefs.
Having antibodies does not mean you have the virus. It means you have had the virus, fought it off and created antibodies to fidget off a future reinfection"Yeah I get that but if I have the antibodies naturally or via a jab.. I have had covid in my system. I'm not exactly anti vax, I honestly believe though that it's a personal choice that should not be mandated in any way at all. I wouldn't expect or demand anybody get the vax but will recommend that anybody with pre-existing conditions should give it serious thought, I'd rather they got the jab than the virus naturally for their own safety | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Right side of history?? So are we saying Donald trump was on the right side of history today? Seeming there wouldn't be a vaccine without his operation warp speed. I've had covid and had 3 doctors give their own opinion on whether or not I should get the vaccine... 2 told me not to as I've already had the virus and built my natural immunity. The 3rd told me I could kill somebody if I don't wear a mask after having the vaccine. Get it if you want don't if you don't but dont try and guilt trip anybody into your way of thinking. Initially they were telling folks who had had covid not to have it (I’ve had covid) They were also telling those with anaphylaxis (like me) that it was dangerous to have it, then they changed their mind and said “maybe you could have it” then they changed their minds again and said “you’ll probably be ok, have it”. How long does the vaccine cover me for dr? Don’t know. Will I need a booster, and if so, how many? Don’t know. Can I still catch it? Yes, can I still pass it on? Yes. Will it keep me out of hospital though? We hope so. This is an actual conversation with my dr! Sure, let me roll up my sleeve, I have tonnes of confidence
Doctors and scientists are just like anyone else, in that they can’t see into the future. As a consequence, advice and expectation will change as they learn more.
It does! And that’s the point that lots of vaccine hesitant are making. What happens in the long term - no one knows.Things don’t always change for the better in science as more is learnt. That’s what I want, long term information and it just isn’t available yet.
Of course - but faced with a life threatening virus, society will take the path of least risk to society, and currently that is getting as many people as possible vaccinated.
While you wait for long term information, you potentially put yourself and others at a higher risk of being affected by Covid. That will be your choice, and one you will have reasoned for and justified to yourself, but it may mean you face restrictions on your lifestyle as a result.
That’s fine, luckily I rarely go out anyway,
I’m just not willing to take the risk. I’ve been given far too much conflicting information by medics and as a single parent to children who have just lost their father, I have to make sure that I keep myself as far away from risk as possible. Hence my decision "This! So many people keep saying “speak to your doctor if you’re hesitant” has anyone actually done that and gotten any sense from them? I’ve had similar conversations… ‘We’ll you should be ok to get the jab’ (after 3 blood relatives ended up with clot related issues- 2 of which are pretty darn serious) ‘but there is a higher chance you could have a negative reaction’ ‘Ok great how higher of a chance’ ‘Well erm we don’t really know that’ ‘So is it better for me to wait until you do know’ ‘Well no you need to have it ASAP’ ‘Why?’ Because well erm….. out comes the sales pitch Anyone having a conversation with a medical professional that goes like that would be off their head to then proceed to let them stick you with it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Right side of history?? So are we saying Donald trump was on the right side of history today? Seeming there wouldn't be a vaccine without his operation warp speed. I've had covid and had 3 doctors give their own opinion on whether or not I should get the vaccine... 2 told me not to as I've already had the virus and built my natural immunity. The 3rd told me I could kill somebody if I don't wear a mask after having the vaccine. Get it if you want don't if you don't but dont try and guilt trip anybody into your way of thinking. Initially they were telling folks who had had covid not to have it (I’ve had covid) They were also telling those with anaphylaxis (like me) that it was dangerous to have it, then they changed their mind and said “maybe you could have it” then they changed their minds again and said “you’ll probably be ok, have it”. How long does the vaccine cover me for dr? Don’t know. Will I need a booster, and if so, how many? Don’t know. Can I still catch it? Yes, can I still pass it on? Yes. Will it keep me out of hospital though? We hope so. This is an actual conversation with my dr! Sure, let me roll up my sleeve, I have tonnes of confidence
That's the scientific process for you, as well as the huge levels of expertise that has been achieved. Things change and we benefit from it, by managing today, based on what we know today.
But, in my shoes, you can understand where my fears come from?
What if based on tomorrow, they decide, actually, people with anaphylaxis shouldn’t have the vaccine? I’ve had covid, I have no antibodies left but hopefully some T cell memory. I’m in what I would class as a low risk group, as long as I stay away from peanuts, I have no underlying health complaints. So based on all of the above and the moved messages I’ve received from the medics I’ve consulted, I have declined, for now. I think that’s sensible. I’ve sought medical advice, I’ve read many peer-received articles, I’ve done my due diligence to the best of my ability. Does that make me a selfish, crazy, anti vaxxer? I don’t think so
As a fellow peanut allergy sufferer... the advice is actually fairly clear. There’s no risk presented by any of the 3 vaccines but you would likely be given Moderna as it has the lowest chance of any unassociated reaction. Most “underlying conditions’ sufferers are given it.
Your anaphylaxis quite dramatically increases your chance of major issues with a serious covid infection but doesn’t present any added complications for vaccination.
Not sure where you’re clinical insight came from but perhaps ask for a second opinion and importantly keep yourself safe x"It’s not just peanuts I’m allergic too, I have unexplained anaphylaxis ie I’ve suffered from unknown causes. I’m also allergic to penicillin and a whole host of medications. I suffer from allergy responses on a daily basis. I’m an nhs clinician by trade so lucky enough to class some of this countries most insightful consultants as close friends. I’ve had lots of advice as I’m also prettified of dying from covid and leaving my kids. I’m petrified of COVID and petrified of the vaccine. I try not to let it rule my life but it’s not a nice rock to sit on between these hard places. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I’m pro vax had both. But anti vaccine passport. People should be able to make a decision for health reasons not because they can’t go the cinema without one. Also there are too many people left out. My mum for example is on imuno suppression drugs so can’t have the vaccine. But she has had covid snd has antibodies. However she can’t go on holiday and soon won’t be able to go to other places. I would be more pro passports. If it was double jab, antibodies or negative test then people have options. I believe it should be “prove you don’t have the virus and you can come in” rather then prove you’ve been jabbed. That’s if this is honestly all about reducing transmission and not about coercing people into uptake of the vaccine
It's completely about uptake though.
You don't blackmale (purposeful spellng to get aroind word filters) people into doing something if you want people to decide for themselves, the passport thing is disgusting and anybody that supports it IS on the wrong side of history.
And how do you prove you don't have it? If I take an antibody test I have the antibodies so therefore I have covid in my system.
We reached herd immunity almost 6 months ago, the elderly and infirm are at around 80% vaccinated with only the people that have chosen not to get jabbed remaining in those groups. The 18-34 age range is over 75%...
100% is not likely to ever happen and demanding it should is never going to work out for the demanders, especially when the majority of the unvaxxed are doing so for their religious beliefs.
I've not heard most unvaccinated are doing it for religious beliefs. Wheres that stat from ?
As I've said before, it's a difficult societal balancing act to allow people to opt out at an individual level yet let them ride on the coattails of those who opt in. Generally such people are outcasted but for vaccines we are more conflicted. Eg we don't let people opt out of taxes just because they don't value them, and will (should) punidh those who do dodge taxes. "So we punish the Muslims that won't take it? How about the Mormons? The sihk? There are many religions that will tell you that injecting a non natural substance into your body is a gateway to hell. I can't see punishing them as a good thing. Viruses that you can build natural immunity to are not taxes or comparible | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Right side of history?? So are we saying Donald trump was on the right side of history today? Seeming there wouldn't be a vaccine without his operation warp speed. I've had covid and had 3 doctors give their own opinion on whether or not I should get the vaccine... 2 told me not to as I've already had the virus and built my natural immunity. The 3rd told me I could kill somebody if I don't wear a mask after having the vaccine. Get it if you want don't if you don't but dont try and guilt trip anybody into your way of thinking. Initially they were telling folks who had had covid not to have it (I’ve had covid) They were also telling those with anaphylaxis (like me) that it was dangerous to have it, then they changed their mind and said “maybe you could have it” then they changed their minds again and said “you’ll probably be ok, have it”. How long does the vaccine cover me for dr? Don’t know. Will I need a booster, and if so, how many? Don’t know. Can I still catch it? Yes, can I still pass it on? Yes. Will it keep me out of hospital though? We hope so. This is an actual conversation with my dr! Sure, let me roll up my sleeve, I have tonnes of confidence
Doctors and scientists are just like anyone else, in that they can’t see into the future. As a consequence, advice and expectation will change as they learn more.
It does! And that’s the point that lots of vaccine hesitant are making. What happens in the long term - no one knows.Things don’t always change for the better in science as more is learnt. That’s what I want, long term information and it just isn’t available yet.
Of course - but faced with a life threatening virus, society will take the path of least risk to society, and currently that is getting as many people as possible vaccinated.
While you wait for long term information, you potentially put yourself and others at a higher risk of being affected by Covid. That will be your choice, and one you will have reasoned for and justified to yourself, but it may mean you face restrictions on your lifestyle as a result.
That’s fine, luckily I rarely go out anyway,
I’m just not willing to take the risk. I’ve been given far too much conflicting information by medics and as a single parent to children who have just lost their father, I have to make sure that I keep myself as far away from risk as possible. Hence my decision
This!
So many people keep saying “speak to your doctor if you’re hesitant” has anyone actually done that and gotten any sense from them?
I’ve had similar conversations…
‘We’ll you should be ok to get the jab’ (after 3 blood relatives ended up with clot related issues- 2 of which are pretty darn serious)
‘but there is a higher chance you could have a negative reaction’
‘Ok great how higher of a chance’
‘Well erm we don’t really know that’
‘So is it better for me to wait until you do know’
‘Well no you need to have it ASAP’
‘Why?’
Because well erm….. out comes the sales pitch
Anyone having a conversation with a medical professional that goes like that would be off their head to then proceed to let them stick you with it. "I struggle to believe this conversation actually happened with a medical professional. | |||
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"Right side of history?? So are we saying Donald trump was on the right side of history today? Seeming there wouldn't be a vaccine without his operation warp speed. I've had covid and had 3 doctors give their own opinion on whether or not I should get the vaccine... 2 told me not to as I've already had the virus and built my natural immunity. The 3rd told me I could kill somebody if I don't wear a mask after having the vaccine. Get it if you want don't if you don't but dont try and guilt trip anybody into your way of thinking. Initially they were telling folks who had had covid not to have it (I’ve had covid) They were also telling those with anaphylaxis (like me) that it was dangerous to have it, then they changed their mind and said “maybe you could have it” then they changed their minds again and said “you’ll probably be ok, have it”. How long does the vaccine cover me for dr? Don’t know. Will I need a booster, and if so, how many? Don’t know. Can I still catch it? Yes, can I still pass it on? Yes. Will it keep me out of hospital though? We hope so. This is an actual conversation with my dr! Sure, let me roll up my sleeve, I have tonnes of confidence
Doctors and scientists are just like anyone else, in that they can’t see into the future. As a consequence, advice and expectation will change as they learn more.
It does! And that’s the point that lots of vaccine hesitant are making. What happens in the long term - no one knows.Things don’t always change for the better in science as more is learnt. That’s what I want, long term information and it just isn’t available yet.
Of course - but faced with a life threatening virus, society will take the path of least risk to society, and currently that is getting as many people as possible vaccinated.
While you wait for long term information, you potentially put yourself and others at a higher risk of being affected by Covid. That will be your choice, and one you will have reasoned for and justified to yourself, but it may mean you face restrictions on your lifestyle as a result.
That’s fine, luckily I rarely go out anyway,
I’m just not willing to take the risk. I’ve been given far too much conflicting information by medics and as a single parent to children who have just lost their father, I have to make sure that I keep myself as far away from risk as possible. Hence my decision
This!
So many people keep saying “speak to your doctor if you’re hesitant” has anyone actually done that and gotten any sense from them?
I’ve had similar conversations…
‘We’ll you should be ok to get the jab’ (after 3 blood relatives ended up with clot related issues- 2 of which are pretty darn serious)
‘but there is a higher chance you could have a negative reaction’
‘Ok great how higher of a chance’
‘Well erm we don’t really know that’
‘So is it better for me to wait until you do know’
‘Well no you need to have it ASAP’
‘Why?’
Because well erm….. out comes the sales pitch
Anyone having a conversation with a medical professional that goes like that would be off their head to then proceed to let them stick you with it.
I struggle to believe this conversation actually happened with a medical professional."Have you ever consulted with a GP? My GP questioned why two of my children had the same date of birth - they are twins! I can well believe this conversation occurred! | |||
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"As a fellow peanut allergy sufferer... the advice is actually fairly clear. There’s no risk presented by any of the 3 vaccines but you would likely be given Moderna as it has the lowest chance of any unassociated reaction. Most “underlying conditions’ sufferers are given it. Your anaphylaxis quite dramatically increases your chance of major issues with a serious covid infection but doesn’t present any added complications for vaccination. Not sure where you’re clinical insight came from but perhaps ask for a second opinion and importantly keep yourself safe x It’s not just peanuts I’m allergic too, I have unexplained anaphylaxis ie I’ve suffered from unknown causes. I’m also allergic to penicillin and a whole host of medications. I suffer from allergy responses on a daily basis. I’m an nhs clinician by trade so lucky enough to class some of this countries most insightful consultants as close friends. I’ve had lots of advice as I’m also prettified of dying from covid and leaving my kids. I’m petrified of COVID and petrified of the vaccine. I try not to let it rule my life but it’s not a nice rock to sit on between these hard places. " The anaphylaxis has no correlation with any vaccination issues, that’s the point I was making. As a condition it makes you no more at risk than a perfectly healthy individual. Likewise I can’t take penicillin and have to be somewhat cautious of trace nuts in food etc. If your doctor has scared you with their lack of advice/knowledge they really aren’t doing their job very well x | |||
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"As a fellow peanut allergy sufferer... the advice is actually fairly clear. There’s no risk presented by any of the 3 vaccines but you would likely be given Moderna as it has the lowest chance of any unassociated reaction. Most “underlying conditions’ sufferers are given it. Your anaphylaxis quite dramatically increases your chance of major issues with a serious covid infection but doesn’t present any added complications for vaccination. Not sure where you’re clinical insight came from but perhaps ask for a second opinion and importantly keep yourself safe x It’s not just peanuts I’m allergic too, I have unexplained anaphylaxis ie I’ve suffered from unknown causes. I’m also allergic to penicillin and a whole host of medications. I suffer from allergy responses on a daily basis. I’m an nhs clinician by trade so lucky enough to class some of this countries most insightful consultants as close friends. I’ve had lots of advice as I’m also prettified of dying from covid and leaving my kids. I’m petrified of COVID and petrified of the vaccine. I try not to let it rule my life but it’s not a nice rock to sit on between these hard places. The anaphylaxis has no correlation with any vaccination issues, that’s the point I was making. As a condition it makes you no more at risk than a perfectly healthy individual. Likewise I can’t take penicillin and have to be somewhat cautious of trace nuts in food etc. If your doctor has scared you with their lack of advice/knowledge they really aren’t doing their job very well x " So I don’t understand then why it was advised initially that those with anaphylaxis don’t take the vaccine. It was documented and can still be found online in documents ranging back to the initial rollout. It just all makes me very frightened. | |||
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"I’m pro vax had both. But anti vaccine passport. People should be able to make a decision for health reasons not because they can’t go the cinema without one. Also there are too many people left out. My mum for example is on imuno suppression drugs so can’t have the vaccine. But she has had covid snd has antibodies. However she can’t go on holiday and soon won’t be able to go to other places. I would be more pro passports. If it was double jab, antibodies or negative test then people have options. I believe it should be “prove you don’t have the virus and you can come in” rather then prove you’ve been jabbed. That’s if this is honestly all about reducing transmission and not about coercing people into uptake of the vaccine
It's completely about uptake though.
You don't blackmale (purposeful spellng to get aroind word filters) people into doing something if you want people to decide for themselves, the passport thing is disgusting and anybody that supports it IS on the wrong side of history.
And how do you prove you don't have it? If I take an antibody test I have the antibodies so therefore I have covid in my system.
We reached herd immunity almost 6 months ago, the elderly and infirm are at around 80% vaccinated with only the people that have chosen not to get jabbed remaining in those groups. The 18-34 age range is over 75%...
100% is not likely to ever happen and demanding it should is never going to work out for the demanders, especially when the majority of the unvaxxed are doing so for their religious beliefs.
I've not heard most unvaccinated are doing it for religious beliefs. Wheres that stat from ?
As I've said before, it's a difficult societal balancing act to allow people to opt out at an individual level yet let them ride on the coattails of those who opt in. Generally such people are outcasted but for vaccines we are more conflicted. Eg we don't let people opt out of taxes just because they don't value them, and will (should) punidh those who do dodge taxes.
So we punish the Muslims that won't take it? How about the Mormons? The sihk? There are many religions that will tell you that injecting a non natural substance into your body is a gateway to hell.
I can't see punishing them as a good thing.
Viruses that you can build natural immunity to are not taxes or comparible"For religious beliefs there are probably ways around this. Suspect there will have to be given protected status. Tbh Im in the middle here, and can see both sides. That's why Im intrigued how many unvaccinated are doing it for wider reason than being simply anti covid vaccine, or being anti vaccines. | |||
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"As a fellow peanut allergy sufferer... the advice is actually fairly clear. There’s no risk presented by any of the 3 vaccines but you would likely be given Moderna as it has the lowest chance of any unassociated reaction. Most “underlying conditions’ sufferers are given it. Your anaphylaxis quite dramatically increases your chance of major issues with a serious covid infection but doesn’t present any added complications for vaccination. Not sure where you’re clinical insight came from but perhaps ask for a second opinion and importantly keep yourself safe x It’s not just peanuts I’m allergic too, I have unexplained anaphylaxis ie I’ve suffered from unknown causes. I’m also allergic to penicillin and a whole host of medications. I suffer from allergy responses on a daily basis. I’m an nhs clinician by trade so lucky enough to class some of this countries most insightful consultants as close friends. I’ve had lots of advice as I’m also prettified of dying from covid and leaving my kids. I’m petrified of COVID and petrified of the vaccine. I try not to let it rule my life but it’s not a nice rock to sit on between these hard places. The anaphylaxis has no correlation with any vaccination issues, that’s the point I was making. As a condition it makes you no more at risk than a perfectly healthy individual. Likewise I can’t take penicillin and have to be somewhat cautious of trace nuts in food etc. If your doctor has scared you with their lack of advice/knowledge they really aren’t doing their job very well x So I don’t understand then why it was advised initially that those with anaphylaxis don’t take the vaccine. It was documented and can still be found online in documents ranging back to the initial rollout. It just all makes me very frightened." Because as a fringe group and at risk further study was undertaken for both Pfizer and AZ. I’m NHS and had to wait longer than colleagues because of this. Since it’s approval however Moderna has pretty much made the question redundant as it had a far wider ranging test group including those suffering Anaphylaxis during development. | |||
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"I said I was out, but you've asked a good question worth answering. You shouldn't have the Pfizer vaccine at all. That one still carries an uncertain risk with any anyphylaptic reaction. Its low, but considering your concern I'd say not to. The AZ vaccine is a pretty traditional vaccine, so if you've had vaccines before ok, you should be absolutely fine. If you have had vaccine reactions before, then this is really a conversation to have with a medical professional. I work in a hospital and have a friend who has a PhD and does research in immunology and vaccination, so all I can do is go by the advice from those sources, and what I also read being a science nut. For what it is worth, I completely get your hesitancy, I react to vaccines a lot, I am double jabbed, and I was quite ill each time. Nothing serious, but not pleasant, however I want normal life back, and see vaccines as the best chance. I hope you do what is best for you, speak with your Dr if not sure, however Covid is serious, and the serious effected people are now the younger cohorts than before. Take care, and now I am out." Thankyou  | |||
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"As a fellow peanut allergy sufferer... the advice is actually fairly clear. There’s no risk presented by any of the 3 vaccines but you would likely be given Moderna as it has the lowest chance of any unassociated reaction. Most “underlying conditions’ sufferers are given it. Your anaphylaxis quite dramatically increases your chance of major issues with a serious covid infection but doesn’t present any added complications for vaccination. Not sure where you’re clinical insight came from but perhaps ask for a second opinion and importantly keep yourself safe x It’s not just peanuts I’m allergic too, I have unexplained anaphylaxis ie I’ve suffered from unknown causes. I’m also allergic to penicillin and a whole host of medications. I suffer from allergy responses on a daily basis. I’m an nhs clinician by trade so lucky enough to class some of this countries most insightful consultants as close friends. I’ve had lots of advice as I’m also prettified of dying from covid and leaving my kids. I’m petrified of COVID and petrified of the vaccine. I try not to let it rule my life but it’s not a nice rock to sit on between these hard places. The anaphylaxis has no correlation with any vaccination issues, that’s the point I was making. As a condition it makes you no more at risk than a perfectly healthy individual. Likewise I can’t take penicillin and have to be somewhat cautious of trace nuts in food etc. If your doctor has scared you with their lack of advice/knowledge they really aren’t doing their job very well x So I don’t understand then why it was advised initially that those with anaphylaxis don’t take the vaccine. It was documented and can still be found online in documents ranging back to the initial rollout. It just all makes me very frightened. Because as a fringe group and at risk further study was undertaken for both Pfizer and AZ. I’m NHS and had to wait longer than colleagues because of this. Since it’s approval however Moderna has pretty much made the question redundant as it had a far wider ranging test group including those suffering Anaphylaxis during development. " Thankyou | |||
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"Right side of history?? So are we saying Donald trump was on the right side of history today? Seeming there wouldn't be a vaccine without his operation warp speed. I've had covid and had 3 doctors give their own opinion on whether or not I should get the vaccine... 2 told me not to as I've already had the virus and built my natural immunity. The 3rd told me I could kill somebody if I don't wear a mask after having the vaccine. Get it if you want don't if you don't but dont try and guilt trip anybody into your way of thinking. Initially they were telling folks who had had covid not to have it (I’ve had covid) They were also telling those with anaphylaxis (like me) that it was dangerous to have it, then they changed their mind and said “maybe you could have it” then they changed their minds again and said “you’ll probably be ok, have it”. How long does the vaccine cover me for dr? Don’t know. Will I need a booster, and if so, how many? Don’t know. Can I still catch it? Yes, can I still pass it on? Yes. Will it keep me out of hospital though? We hope so. This is an actual conversation with my dr! Sure, let me roll up my sleeve, I have tonnes of confidence
Doctors and scientists are just like anyone else, in that they can’t see into the future. As a consequence, advice and expectation will change as they learn more.
It does! And that’s the point that lots of vaccine hesitant are making. What happens in the long term - no one knows.Things don’t always change for the better in science as more is learnt. That’s what I want, long term information and it just isn’t available yet.
Of course - but faced with a life threatening virus, society will take the path of least risk to society, and currently that is getting as many people as possible vaccinated.
While you wait for long term information, you potentially put yourself and others at a higher risk of being affected by Covid. That will be your choice, and one you will have reasoned for and justified to yourself, but it may mean you face restrictions on your lifestyle as a result.
That’s fine, luckily I rarely go out anyway,
I’m just not willing to take the risk. I’ve been given far too much conflicting information by medics and as a single parent to children who have just lost their father, I have to make sure that I keep myself as far away from risk as possible. Hence my decision
This!
So many people keep saying “speak to your doctor if you’re hesitant” has anyone actually done that and gotten any sense from them?
I’ve had similar conversations…
‘We’ll you should be ok to get the jab’ (after 3 blood relatives ended up with clot related issues- 2 of which are pretty darn serious)
‘but there is a higher chance you could have a negative reaction’
‘Ok great how higher of a chance’
‘Well erm we don’t really know that’
‘So is it better for me to wait until you do know’
‘Well no you need to have it ASAP’
‘Why?’
Because well erm….. out comes the sales pitch
Anyone having a conversation with a medical professional that goes like that would be off their head to then proceed to let them stick you with it.
I struggle to believe this conversation actually happened with a medical professional."I struggled to believe it too. I literally sat open mouthed when I got off the phone. The call was less than 5 minutes. (I spent more time trying to get past the receptionist!) | |||
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"Because well erm….. out comes the sales pitch " What's the difference between medical advice (including medical advice you don't want to hear) and a sales pitch? | |||
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"Oh and as someone who has worked with drs for 15 years, let me tell you, the ridiculous shit I’ve heard from their mouths could fill a book! Always listen to the nurses, they know a lot more a lot of the time! " That’s actually a bloody good idea! I should have thought of asking for an app with the nurse practitioner instead! I might try that….receptionist allowing obviously  | |||
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"Right side of history?? So are we saying Donald trump was on the right side of history today? Seeming there wouldn't be a vaccine without his operation warp speed. I've had covid and had 3 doctors give their own opinion on whether or not I should get the vaccine... 2 told me not to as I've already had the virus and built my natural immunity. The 3rd told me I could kill somebody if I don't wear a mask after having the vaccine. Get it if you want don't if you don't but dont try and guilt trip anybody into your way of thinking. Initially they were telling folks who had had covid not to have it (I’ve had covid) They were also telling those with anaphylaxis (like me) that it was dangerous to have it, then they changed their mind and said “maybe you could have it” then they changed their minds again and said “you’ll probably be ok, have it”. How long does the vaccine cover me for dr? Don’t know. Will I need a booster, and if so, how many? Don’t know. Can I still catch it? Yes, can I still pass it on? Yes. Will it keep me out of hospital though? We hope so. This is an actual conversation with my dr! Sure, let me roll up my sleeve, I have tonnes of confidence
Doctors and scientists are just like anyone else, in that they can’t see into the future. As a consequence, advice and expectation will change as they learn more.
It does! And that’s the point that lots of vaccine hesitant are making. What happens in the long term - no one knows.Things don’t always change for the better in science as more is learnt. That’s what I want, long term information and it just isn’t available yet.
Of course - but faced with a life threatening virus, society will take the path of least risk to society, and currently that is getting as many people as possible vaccinated.
While you wait for long term information, you potentially put yourself and others at a higher risk of being affected by Covid. That will be your choice, and one you will have reasoned for and justified to yourself, but it may mean you face restrictions on your lifestyle as a result.
That’s fine, luckily I rarely go out anyway,
I’m just not willing to take the risk. I’ve been given far too much conflicting information by medics and as a single parent to children who have just lost their father, I have to make sure that I keep myself as far away from risk as possible. Hence my decision
This!
So many people keep saying “speak to your doctor if you’re hesitant” has anyone actually done that and gotten any sense from them?
I’ve had similar conversations…
‘We’ll you should be ok to get the jab’ (after 3 blood relatives ended up with clot related issues- 2 of which are pretty darn serious)
‘but there is a higher chance you could have a negative reaction’
‘Ok great how higher of a chance’
‘Well erm we don’t really know that’
‘So is it better for me to wait until you do know’
‘Well no you need to have it ASAP’
‘Why?’
Because well erm….. out comes the sales pitch
Anyone having a conversation with a medical professional that goes like that would be off their head to then proceed to let them stick you with it.
I struggle to believe this conversation actually happened with a medical professional."I can, because it's almost in line with where we are. We don't really know the risk at an individual level afaik or what markers increase risk. So it may feel sensible to do nothing until we have data. But doing nothing comes at a risk. And I suspect in many cases that's a higher risk, especially as we are probably still trying to understand what markers (other than obesity) lead to more severe cases. If heard it said (not seen a study) that if the vaccine causes issues, then that may have been a sign that civid would have been equally problematic. So you're at a higher risk doing nothing as doing something. In conclusion: noone can give a definite answer. And those who would be sued if they did will give you a more caveated answer. | |||
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"I’m pro vax had both. But anti vaccine passport. People should be able to make a decision for health reasons not because they can’t go the cinema without one. Also there are too many people left out. My mum for example is on imuno suppression drugs so can’t have the vaccine. But she has had covid snd has antibodies. However she can’t go on holiday and soon won’t be able to go to other places. I would be more pro passports. If it was double jab, antibodies or negative test then people have options. I believe it should be “prove you don’t have the virus and you can come in” rather then prove you’ve been jabbed. That’s if this is honestly all about reducing transmission and not about coercing people into uptake of the vaccine " | |||
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"Because well erm….. out comes the sales pitch What's the difference between medical advice (including medical advice you don't want to hear) and a sales pitch?" I wanted to hear medical advice otherwise I wouldn’t have called him would I. It would have been easy enough to make a decision and get on with life. Medical advice usually is supported with facts. What I heard wasn’t because he didn’t know. He said the words “we don’t know” Ok great I’ll try that…. | |||
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"Because well erm….. out comes the sales pitch What's the difference between medical advice (including medical advice you don't want to hear) and a sales pitch? I wanted to hear medical advice otherwise I wouldn’t have called him would I. It would have been easy enough to make a decision and get on with life. Medical advice usually is supported with facts. What I heard wasn’t because he didn’t know. He said the words “we don’t know” Ok great I’ll try that…. " He was advising you. Honestly, it sounds like. So, he was doing his job? | |||
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" Quite simples really as fairly recent history has shown with the "MMR" jab and lot's of people swallowed all the "Autism" scare that proved 100% false and so guess who's now crawled out from under the rock ?? and spreading stuff about this vaccine ?? and been the same all the way through history used to call them " Ludittes "" Exactly | |||
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" Quite simples really as fairly recent history has shown with the "MMR" jab and lot's of people swallowed all the "Autism" scare that proved 100% false and so guess who's now crawled out from under the rock ?? and spreading stuff about this vaccine ?? and been the same all the way through history used to call them " Ludittes " Exactly "
Although the MMR people haven't stopped, they're just not as mainstream as they were. And they've shifted the goalposts so they're apparently still right.
Lol. | |||
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"Because well erm….. out comes the sales pitch What's the difference between medical advice (including medical advice you don't want to hear) and a sales pitch? I wanted to hear medical advice otherwise I wouldn’t have called him would I. It would have been easy enough to make a decision and get on with life. Medical advice usually is supported with facts. What I heard wasn’t because he didn’t know. He said the words “we don’t know” Ok great I’ll try that…. He was advising you. Honestly, it sounds like. So, he was doing his job?" If my doctor had given me even just a decent level of confidence that my chances of an adverse reaction were the same as the rest of the population and not heightened by some stupid blood disorder then I’d have felt an awful lot better. He couldn’t and didn’t. It’s not his fault. It’s not anyone’s fault. It is the way it is at the moment. But I don’t know either and my understanding from doctors looking after one of my family members is thats it’s unlikely they’re going to investigate (any further than concluding that this person can’t have their second jab after what happened) So I’m not ‘not wanting to hear’ anything. Just nobody is actually saying anything. | |||
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"Because well erm….. out comes the sales pitch What's the difference between medical advice (including medical advice you don't want to hear) and a sales pitch? I wanted to hear medical advice otherwise I wouldn’t have called him would I. It would have been easy enough to make a decision and get on with life. Medical advice usually is supported with facts. What I heard wasn’t because he didn’t know. He said the words “we don’t know” Ok great I’ll try that…. He was advising you. Honestly, it sounds like. So, he was doing his job?" If you asked your doctor if taking a tablet would make your head fall off and he said no idea but you should still probably take it because it stops your arm falling off and you take it, then that says a lot more about you than it does about me. | |||
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"Sadly GP's are too broadly knowledged to be great for advice sometimes. If you have a medical condition you see a specialist for, they're usually the better one to ask. " Agreed, as it stands there’s very very few ailments where the considered advice isn’t to have the vaccine. The only group I can think of currently is those who are undertaking certain cancer therapies. The advice in that instance is to delay either the vaccine or the treatment depending on priorities. Most conditions which cause concern are based on the serious increase in chances of a very severe and perhaps life threatening issue should you contract the virus. The specific advice is always get vaccinated to lessen that risk. | |||
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"Because well erm….. out comes the sales pitch What's the difference between medical advice (including medical advice you don't want to hear) and a sales pitch? I wanted to hear medical advice otherwise I wouldn’t have called him would I. It would have been easy enough to make a decision and get on with life. Medical advice usually is supported with facts. What I heard wasn’t because he didn’t know. He said the words “we don’t know” Ok great I’ll try that…. He was advising you. Honestly, it sounds like. So, he was doing his job? If you asked your doctor if taking a tablet would make your head fall off and he said no idea but you should still probably take it because it stops your arm falling off and you take it, then that says a lot more about you than it does about me. " ... Umm. Ok 
Maybe Jenner should have been stopped from developing the smallpox vaccine because maybe Hitler would have died of smallpox in his youth
Maybe the smallpox vaccine will cause our descendants with epigenetic damage to give birth to calves. (Combination of current MMR scaremongering and the anti smallpox vaccine scaremongering)
Maybe someone's car will explode today and kill them. Or their house fall down.
If we live based on what if and silly made up hypotheticals we wouldn't get out of bed. Or even into bed because maybe both the bed and the building are structurally unsound and will cause a prolonged agonising death when they collapse 
... Or we go, what's the risk, what's the benefit, what's the level of uncertainty, and we make an informed decision on that basis. | |||
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" ... Umm. Ok
Maybe Jenner should have been stopped from developing the smallpox vaccine because maybe Hitler would have died of smallpox in his youth
Maybe the smallpox vaccine will cause our descendants with epigenetic damage to give birth to calves. (Combination of current MMR scaremongering and the anti smallpox vaccine scaremongering)
Maybe someone's car will explode today and kill them. Or their house fall down.
If we live based on what if and silly made up hypotheticals we wouldn't get out of bed. Or even into bed because maybe both the bed and the building are structurally unsound and will cause a prolonged agonising death when they collapse
... Or we go, what's the risk, what's the benefit, what's the level of uncertainty, and we make an informed decision on that basis."Yeah we make an informed decision, the gov and the general public don't get to make the decision for you | |||
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" ... Umm. Ok
Maybe Jenner should have been stopped from developing the smallpox vaccine because maybe Hitler would have died of smallpox in his youth
Maybe the smallpox vaccine will cause our descendants with epigenetic damage to give birth to calves. (Combination of current MMR scaremongering and the anti smallpox vaccine scaremongering)
Maybe someone's car will explode today and kill them. Or their house fall down.
If we live based on what if and silly made up hypotheticals we wouldn't get out of bed. Or even into bed because maybe both the bed and the building are structurally unsound and will cause a prolonged agonising death when they collapse
... Or we go, what's the risk, what's the benefit, what's the level of uncertainty, and we make an informed decision on that basis.
Yeah we make an informed decision, the gov and the general public don't get to make the decision for you"Who's making a decision for anyone? It sounds like the doctor has laid out the risks. For whatever reason "I don't know" is insufficient, even though the truth is we never know. Get jabbed, don't get jabbed. Consequences may arise from that. As they do from any choice anyone might make. And no I don't mean "consequences" like I'm going to force anyone to get vaccinated. I mean consequences like, government does whatever it will do, people will think whatever they think. That's... kind of how everything goes. | |||
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"Because well erm….. out comes the sales pitch What's the difference between medical advice (including medical advice you don't want to hear) and a sales pitch? I wanted to hear medical advice otherwise I wouldn’t have called him would I. It would have been easy enough to make a decision and get on with life. Medical advice usually is supported with facts. What I heard wasn’t because he didn’t know. He said the words “we don’t know” Ok great I’ll try that…. He was advising you. Honestly, it sounds like. So, he was doing his job? If you asked your doctor if taking a tablet would make your head fall off and he said no idea but you should still probably take it because it stops your arm falling off and you take it, then that says a lot more about you than it does about me. " "This pill has caused 1 in a million heads to fall off. We can't tell you why that happened or if it is more or less likely than 1 in a million that your head will fall off as generally such studies take years. However thousands of people have been loosing their heads in the last year and millions more have been loosing their arms, so there are real benefits in taking the pill. It's just we can't tell you for sure if that's the right course of action. On average it will be, but every person is different." I think that's closer to the analogy here. You may die from getting jabbed. The jab may also save your life. However it appears to me the GP has failed in explains why they couldn't be more definite and that appears to have stoked the flames of doubt. It's a shit position to be in when you have health concerns and noone can give you a definite answer. So I totally get why you'd be worried ... My answer above isn't trying to minimise that, just help with understanding | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Because well erm….. out comes the sales pitch What's the difference between medical advice (including medical advice you don't want to hear) and a sales pitch? I wanted to hear medical advice otherwise I wouldn’t have called him would I. It would have been easy enough to make a decision and get on with life. Medical advice usually is supported with facts. What I heard wasn’t because he didn’t know. He said the words “we don’t know” Ok great I’ll try that…. He was advising you. Honestly, it sounds like. So, he was doing his job? If you asked your doctor if taking a tablet would make your head fall off and he said no idea but you should still probably take it because it stops your arm falling off and you take it, then that says a lot more about you than it does about me. ... Umm. Ok
Maybe Jenner should have been stopped from developing the smallpox vaccine because maybe Hitler would have died of smallpox in his youth
Maybe the smallpox vaccine will cause our descendants with epigenetic damage to give birth to calves. (Combination of current MMR scaremongering and the anti smallpox vaccine scaremongering)
Maybe someone's car will explode today and kill them. Or their house fall down.
If we live based on what if and silly made up hypotheticals we wouldn't get out of bed. Or even into bed because maybe both the bed and the building are structurally unsound and will cause a prolonged agonising death when they collapse
... Or we go, what's the risk, what's the benefit, what's the level of uncertainty, and we make an informed decision on that basis."I’d make an informed decision if I’d been informed. He said he doesn’t know. It could be 0.5% chance it could be 90% What if it’s 90%? Honestly you’re just looking to poke at someone. What I’ve said is perfectly reasonable to anyone who has any kind of objective reasoning capability | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Because well erm….. out comes the sales pitch What's the difference between medical advice (including medical advice you don't want to hear) and a sales pitch? I wanted to hear medical advice otherwise I wouldn’t have called him would I. It would have been easy enough to make a decision and get on with life. Medical advice usually is supported with facts. What I heard wasn’t because he didn’t know. He said the words “we don’t know” Ok great I’ll try that…. He was advising you. Honestly, it sounds like. So, he was doing his job? If you asked your doctor if taking a tablet would make your head fall off and he said no idea but you should still probably take it because it stops your arm falling off and you take it, then that says a lot more about you than it does about me. ... Umm. Ok
Maybe Jenner should have been stopped from developing the smallpox vaccine because maybe Hitler would have died of smallpox in his youth
Maybe the smallpox vaccine will cause our descendants with epigenetic damage to give birth to calves. (Combination of current MMR scaremongering and the anti smallpox vaccine scaremongering)
Maybe someone's car will explode today and kill them. Or their house fall down.
If we live based on what if and silly made up hypotheticals we wouldn't get out of bed. Or even into bed because maybe both the bed and the building are structurally unsound and will cause a prolonged agonising death when they collapse
... Or we go, what's the risk, what's the benefit, what's the level of uncertainty, and we make an informed decision on that basis.
I’d make an informed decision if I’d been informed. He said he doesn’t know. It could be 0.5% chance it could be 90%
What if it’s 90%?
Honestly you’re just looking to poke at someone. What I’ve said is perfectly reasonable to anyone who has any kind of objective reasoning capability "Genuinely. I'm curious as to the difference between a sales pitch and medical advice. Statistics exist on the risk of adverse effects. I'm sorry if the doctor didn't know them. But ultimately we don't know everything or everyone's individual risk. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Because well erm….. out comes the sales pitch What's the difference between medical advice (including medical advice you don't want to hear) and a sales pitch? I wanted to hear medical advice otherwise I wouldn’t have called him would I. It would have been easy enough to make a decision and get on with life. Medical advice usually is supported with facts. What I heard wasn’t because he didn’t know. He said the words “we don’t know” Ok great I’ll try that…. He was advising you. Honestly, it sounds like. So, he was doing his job? If you asked your doctor if taking a tablet would make your head fall off and he said no idea but you should still probably take it because it stops your arm falling off and you take it, then that says a lot more about you than it does about me. "This pill has caused 1 in a million heads to fall off. We can't tell you why that happened or if it is more or less likely than 1 in a million that your head will fall off as generally such studies take years. However thousands of people have been loosing their heads in the last year and millions more have been loosing their arms, so there are real benefits in taking the pill. It's just we can't tell you for sure if that's the right course of action. On average it will be, but every person is different." I think that's closer to the analogy here. You may die from getting jabbed. The jab may also save your life. However it appears to me the GP has failed in explains why they couldn't be more definite and that appears to have stoked the flames of doubt. It's a shit position to be in when you have health concerns and noone can give you a definite answer. So I totally get why you'd be worried ... My answer above isn't trying to minimise that, just help with understanding" No I get that. Honestly I was hoping he’d say well your family members are a bit fat. That’s 90% likely to be why they’ve suffered these reactions. Silly example I know but I’d have felt better and reassured (being less fat) and gone ahead with the jab I had booked. But he didn’t. In fact he sounded pretty much like he had no idea what to say to me. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Because well erm….. out comes the sales pitch What's the difference between medical advice (including medical advice you don't want to hear) and a sales pitch? I wanted to hear medical advice otherwise I wouldn’t have called him would I. It would have been easy enough to make a decision and get on with life. Medical advice usually is supported with facts. What I heard wasn’t because he didn’t know. He said the words “we don’t know” Ok great I’ll try that…. He was advising you. Honestly, it sounds like. So, he was doing his job? If you asked your doctor if taking a tablet would make your head fall off and he said no idea but you should still probably take it because it stops your arm falling off and you take it, then that says a lot more about you than it does about me. ... Umm. Ok
Maybe Jenner should have been stopped from developing the smallpox vaccine because maybe Hitler would have died of smallpox in his youth
Maybe the smallpox vaccine will cause our descendants with epigenetic damage to give birth to calves. (Combination of current MMR scaremongering and the anti smallpox vaccine scaremongering)
Maybe someone's car will explode today and kill them. Or their house fall down.
If we live based on what if and silly made up hypotheticals we wouldn't get out of bed. Or even into bed because maybe both the bed and the building are structurally unsound and will cause a prolonged agonising death when they collapse
... Or we go, what's the risk, what's the benefit, what's the level of uncertainty, and we make an informed decision on that basis.
I’d make an informed decision if I’d been informed. He said he doesn’t know. It could be 0.5% chance it could be 90%
What if it’s 90%?
Honestly you’re just looking to poke at someone. What I’ve said is perfectly reasonable to anyone who has any kind of objective reasoning capability
Genuinely. I'm curious as to the difference between a sales pitch and medical advice.
Statistics exist on the risk of adverse effects. I'm sorry if the doctor didn't know them. But ultimately we don't know everything or everyone's individual risk."The sales pitch was the fluff rather than advice. He got confused, stumbled over his words and sounded like he wasn’t sure what else he could say to me. So he began saying the “vaccine is the best possible current protection against Covid” which I don’t dispute or fault. But he didn’t give me any actual advice. He was very careful not to say “I think you should go ahead and have it” and make it personal to me in any way. It was quite alarming. I may indeed go see the nurse instead. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" ... Umm. Ok
Maybe Jenner should have been stopped from developing the smallpox vaccine because maybe Hitler would have died of smallpox in his youth
Maybe the smallpox vaccine will cause our descendants with epigenetic damage to give birth to calves. (Combination of current MMR scaremongering and the anti smallpox vaccine scaremongering)
Maybe someone's car will explode today and kill them. Or their house fall down.
If we live based on what if and silly made up hypotheticals we wouldn't get out of bed. Or even into bed because maybe both the bed and the building are structurally unsound and will cause a prolonged agonising death when they collapse
... Or we go, what's the risk, what's the benefit, what's the level of uncertainty, and we make an informed decision on that basis.
Yeah we make an informed decision, the gov and the general public don't get to make the decision for you
Who's making a decision for anyone?
It sounds like the doctor has laid out the risks. For whatever reason "I don't know" is insufficient, even though the truth is we never know.
Get jabbed, don't get jabbed. Consequences may arise from that. As they do from any choice anyone might make.
And no I don't mean "consequences" like I'm going to force anyone to get vaccinated. I mean consequences like, government does whatever it will do, people will think whatever they think. That's... kind of how everything goes."Get the vaccine or you can't socialize, get the vaccine or your season ticket for an open air stadium will be revoked without reimbursement, take the vaccine or you and your business will be ruined... The gov and the general public are trying to force people to make a decision that the individual may not want through punishment. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Because well erm….. out comes the sales pitch What's the difference between medical advice (including medical advice you don't want to hear) and a sales pitch? I wanted to hear medical advice otherwise I wouldn’t have called him would I. It would have been easy enough to make a decision and get on with life. Medical advice usually is supported with facts. What I heard wasn’t because he didn’t know. He said the words “we don’t know” Ok great I’ll try that…. He was advising you. Honestly, it sounds like. So, he was doing his job? If you asked your doctor if taking a tablet would make your head fall off and he said no idea but you should still probably take it because it stops your arm falling off and you take it, then that says a lot more about you than it does about me. "This pill has caused 1 in a million heads to fall off. We can't tell you why that happened or if it is more or less likely than 1 in a million that your head will fall off as generally such studies take years. However thousands of people have been loosing their heads in the last year and millions more have been loosing their arms, so there are real benefits in taking the pill. It's just we can't tell you for sure if that's the right course of action. On average it will be, but every person is different." I think that's closer to the analogy here. You may die from getting jabbed. The jab may also save your life. However it appears to me the GP has failed in explains why they couldn't be more definite and that appears to have stoked the flames of doubt. It's a shit position to be in when you have health concerns and noone can give you a definite answer. So I totally get why you'd be worried ... My answer above isn't trying to minimise that, just help with understanding No I get that. Honestly I was hoping he’d say well your family members are a bit fat. That’s 90% likely to be why they’ve suffered these reactions. Silly example I know but I’d have felt better and reassured (being less fat) and gone ahead with the jab I had booked. But he didn’t. In fact he sounded pretty much like he had no idea what to say to me. " I don't think he did. He probably has an email telling him not to make form commitments otherwise his insurance will be invalidated. People want certainty from their doctors because weve been told they are all knowing. That's not their fault, it's the world we live in ... Humans don't like uncertainty. Imo we need to do more at a school level to say that uncertainty exist, here's how to get comfortable with it. That's my soap box anyway ! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Because well erm….. out comes the sales pitch What's the difference between medical advice (including medical advice you don't want to hear) and a sales pitch? I wanted to hear medical advice otherwise I wouldn’t have called him would I. It would have been easy enough to make a decision and get on with life. Medical advice usually is supported with facts. What I heard wasn’t because he didn’t know. He said the words “we don’t know” Ok great I’ll try that…. He was advising you. Honestly, it sounds like. So, he was doing his job? If you asked your doctor if taking a tablet would make your head fall off and he said no idea but you should still probably take it because it stops your arm falling off and you take it, then that says a lot more about you than it does about me. ... Umm. Ok
Maybe Jenner should have been stopped from developing the smallpox vaccine because maybe Hitler would have died of smallpox in his youth
Maybe the smallpox vaccine will cause our descendants with epigenetic damage to give birth to calves. (Combination of current MMR scaremongering and the anti smallpox vaccine scaremongering)
Maybe someone's car will explode today and kill them. Or their house fall down.
If we live based on what if and silly made up hypotheticals we wouldn't get out of bed. Or even into bed because maybe both the bed and the building are structurally unsound and will cause a prolonged agonising death when they collapse
... Or we go, what's the risk, what's the benefit, what's the level of uncertainty, and we make an informed decision on that basis.
I’d make an informed decision if I’d been informed. He said he doesn’t know. It could be 0.5% chance it could be 90%
What if it’s 90%?
Honestly you’re just looking to poke at someone. What I’ve said is perfectly reasonable to anyone who has any kind of objective reasoning capability
Genuinely. I'm curious as to the difference between a sales pitch and medical advice.
Statistics exist on the risk of adverse effects. I'm sorry if the doctor didn't know them. But ultimately we don't know everything or everyone's individual risk.
The sales pitch was the fluff rather than advice. He got confused, stumbled over his words and sounded like he wasn’t sure what else he could say to me. So he began saying the “vaccine is the best possible current protection against Covid” which I don’t dispute or fault. But he didn’t give me any actual advice. He was very careful not to say “I think you should go ahead and have it” and make it personal to me in any way. It was quite alarming. I may indeed go see the nurse instead. "The advice he gave you was; "the vaccine is the best possible current protection against Covid” The choice to have it or not is down to you/each of us. I suspect if there was a genuine medical reason why you personally shouldn't get the vaccine he'd have said so. I have a bit of sympathy for GPs, they're caught between a rock and a hard place. We want absolutes. They're not that simple to give. E | |||
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"Right side of history?? So are we saying Donald trump was on the right side of history today? Seeming there wouldn't be a vaccine without his operation warp speed. I've had covid and had 3 doctors give their own opinion on whether or not I should get the vaccine... 2 told me not to as I've already had the virus and built my natural immunity. The 3rd told me I could kill somebody if I don't wear a mask after having the vaccine. Get it if you want don't if you don't but dont try and guilt trip anybody into your way of thinking. Initially they were telling folks who had had covid not to have it (I’ve had covid) They were also telling those with anaphylaxis (like me) that it was dangerous to have it, then they changed their mind and said “maybe you could have it” then they changed their minds again and said “you’ll probably be ok, have it”. How long does the vaccine cover me for dr? Don’t know. Will I need a booster, and if so, how many? Don’t know. Can I still catch it? Yes, can I still pass it on? Yes. Will it keep me out of hospital though? We hope so. This is an actual conversation with my dr! Sure, let me roll up my sleeve, I have tonnes of confidence
That's the scientific process for you, as well as the huge levels of expertise that has been achieved. Things change and we benefit from it, by managing today, based on what we know today.
So we drink the bleach because we are told to today... but tomorrow when they realise it's not good for you, you can't undrink it"Thankfully, the peer-re_iewed research evidence has never concluded that drinking bleach is an appropriate strategy. There are many fringe influencers who have been pushing very dangerous approaches, including to avoid vaccination. We currently have just the 2 key approaches that have been saving tens of thousands of lives, organ failures and disabilities - restrictions and vaccines. As we want to improve things and regain more freedoms and stronger health, vaccines are our key tools. The momentum of the development of our expertise is phenomenal . We're gaining so much but ultimately it does require citizens to make investments, especially where we individually want to engage with others and life, that involves higher risks. Most people don't want to be holed up at home isolated ad finitum, so we're benefitting from changes that support us doing that, with inbuilt protection.
It's important for us to stay focused on the best current knowledge, which is growing constantly. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" ... Umm. Ok
Maybe Jenner should have been stopped from developing the smallpox vaccine because maybe Hitler would have died of smallpox in his youth
Maybe the smallpox vaccine will cause our descendants with epigenetic damage to give birth to calves. (Combination of current MMR scaremongering and the anti smallpox vaccine scaremongering)
Maybe someone's car will explode today and kill them. Or their house fall down.
If we live based on what if and silly made up hypotheticals we wouldn't get out of bed. Or even into bed because maybe both the bed and the building are structurally unsound and will cause a prolonged agonising death when they collapse
... Or we go, what's the risk, what's the benefit, what's the level of uncertainty, and we make an informed decision on that basis.
Yeah we make an informed decision, the gov and the general public don't get to make the decision for you
Who's making a decision for anyone?
It sounds like the doctor has laid out the risks. For whatever reason "I don't know" is insufficient, even though the truth is we never know.
Get jabbed, don't get jabbed. Consequences may arise from that. As they do from any choice anyone might make.
And no I don't mean "consequences" like I'm going to force anyone to get vaccinated. I mean consequences like, government does whatever it will do, people will think whatever they think. That's... kind of how everything goes.
Get the vaccine or you can't socialize, get the vaccine or your season ticket for an open air stadium will be revoked without reimbursement, take the vaccine or you and your business will be ruined...
The gov and the general public are trying to force people to make a decision that the individual may not want through punishment.
"I don't have a driving license. Am I forced to catch the train/bus/tram? Am I forced to live near public transport routes? Am I forced to work around timetables? Or have I made a choice? | |||
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"So I don’t understand then why it was advised initially that those with anaphylaxis don’t take the vaccine. It was documented and can still be found online in documents ranging back to the initial rollout. It just all makes me very frightened." One thing that does puzzle me slightly is you mentioned on the other thread you where a bit of a fan of Botox and instant result cosmetic procedures. There’s pretty clear guidelines surrounding Botox and Derma fillers which say they shouldn’t be used on people with a history of anaphylaxis. Whilst there’s only been a handful of deaths there’s a lot of case studies surrounding treatments gaining a severe reaction and leaving patients scarred or with heavily damaged tissue. The risk of this happening compared to a vaccination reaction is around 1000%. I’m honestly quite curious why you’d not risk a potentially life saving vaccine yet have no issue taking far greater risks for a temporary beauty procedure? X | |||
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"I’m pro vax had both. But anti vaccine passport. People should be able to make a decision for health reasons not because they can’t go the cinema without one. Also there are too many people left out. My mum for example is on imuno suppression drugs so can’t have the vaccine. But she has had covid snd has antibodies. However she can’t go on holiday and soon won’t be able to go to other places. I would be more pro passports. If it was double jab, antibodies or negative test then people have options. I believe it should be “prove you don’t have the virus and you can come in” rather then prove you’ve been jabbed. That’s if this is honestly all about reducing transmission and not about coercing people into uptake of the vaccine
It's completely about uptake though.
You don't blackmale (purposeful spellng to get aroind word filters) people into doing something if you want people to decide for themselves, the passport thing is disgusting and anybody that supports it IS on the wrong side of history.
And how do you prove you don't have it? If I take an antibody test I have the antibodies so therefore I have covid in my system.
We reached herd immunity almost 6 months ago, the elderly and infirm are at around 80% vaccinated with only the people that have chosen not to get jabbed remaining in those groups. The 18-34 age range is over 75%...
100% is not likely to ever happen and demanding it should is never going to work out for the demanders, especially when the majority of the unvaxxed are doing so for their religious beliefs."We didn't reach the notional herd immunity point 6 months ago. It's a notional point that depends on the context - including variant qualities and infection levels. We may be approaching towards it now but there is not a static point, for the previously outlined reasons. | |||
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"Because well erm….. out comes the sales pitch What's the difference between medical advice (including medical advice you don't want to hear) and a sales pitch? I wanted to hear medical advice otherwise I wouldn’t have called him would I. It would have been easy enough to make a decision and get on with life. Medical advice usually is supported with facts. What I heard wasn’t because he didn’t know. He said the words “we don’t know” Ok great I’ll try that…. He was advising you. Honestly, it sounds like. So, he was doing his job? If you asked your doctor if taking a tablet would make your head fall off and he said no idea but you should still probably take it because it stops your arm falling off and you take it, then that says a lot more about you than it does about me. ... Umm. Ok
Maybe Jenner should have been stopped from developing the smallpox vaccine because maybe Hitler would have died of smallpox in his youth
Maybe the smallpox vaccine will cause our descendants with epigenetic damage to give birth to calves. (Combination of current MMR scaremongering and the anti smallpox vaccine scaremongering)
Maybe someone's car will explode today and kill them. Or their house fall down.
If we live based on what if and silly made up hypotheticals we wouldn't get out of bed. Or even into bed because maybe both the bed and the building are structurally unsound and will cause a prolonged agonising death when they collapse
... Or we go, what's the risk, what's the benefit, what's the level of uncertainty, and we make an informed decision on that basis.
I’d make an informed decision if I’d been informed. He said he doesn’t know. It could be 0.5% chance it could be 90%
What if it’s 90%?
Honestly you’re just looking to poke at someone. What I’ve said is perfectly reasonable to anyone who has any kind of objective reasoning capability
Genuinely. I'm curious as to the difference between a sales pitch and medical advice.
Statistics exist on the risk of adverse effects. I'm sorry if the doctor didn't know them. But ultimately we don't know everything or everyone's individual risk.
The sales pitch was the fluff rather than advice. He got confused, stumbled over his words and sounded like he wasn’t sure what else he could say to me. So he began saying the “vaccine is the best possible current protection against Covid” which I don’t dispute or fault. But he didn’t give me any actual advice. He was very careful not to say “I think you should go ahead and have it” and make it personal to me in any way. It was quite alarming. I may indeed go see the nurse instead.
The advice he gave you was; "the vaccine is the best possible current protection against Covid”
The choice to have it or not is down to you/each of us.
I suspect if there was a genuine medical reason why you personally shouldn't get the vaccine he'd have said so.
I have a bit of sympathy for GPs, they're caught between a rock and a hard place.
We want absolutes. They're not that simple to give.
E
"No that wasn’t advice. That was the sales pitch. Gareth Southgate said the exact same thing. I didn’t go to see him for the collective. I went for myself as an individual. I didn’t ask for an absolute a bloody estimate would have done. He didn’t know. He had No idea at all And you’re telling me you think taking a risk that’s somewhere between 0 and 100 percent is worth it. Well thank you for your advice I’ll be sure to take it into consideration along with Gareth’s. | |||
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"I’m pro vax had both. But anti vaccine passport. People should be able to make a decision for health reasons not because they can’t go the cinema without one. Also there are too many people left out. My mum for example is on imuno suppression drugs so can’t have the vaccine. But she has had covid snd has antibodies. However she can’t go on holiday and soon won’t be able to go to other places. I would be more pro passports. If it was double jab, antibodies or negative test then people have options. I believe it should be “prove you don’t have the virus and you can come in” rather then prove you’ve been jabbed. That’s if this is honestly all about reducing transmission and not about coercing people into uptake of the vaccine
It's completely about uptake though.
You don't blackmale (purposeful spellng to get aroind word filters) people into doing something if you want people to decide for themselves, the passport thing is disgusting and anybody that supports it IS on the wrong side of history.
And how do you prove you don't have it? If I take an antibody test I have the antibodies so therefore I have covid in my system.
We reached herd immunity almost 6 months ago, the elderly and infirm are at around 80% vaccinated with only the people that have chosen not to get jabbed remaining in those groups. The 18-34 age range is over 75%...
100% is not likely to ever happen and demanding it should is never going to work out for the demanders, especially when the majority of the unvaxxed are doing so for their religious beliefs.
We didn't reach the notional herd immunity point 6 months ago.
It's a notional point that depends on the context - including variant qualities and infection levels. We may be approaching towards it now but there is not a static point, for the previously outlined reasons. "Scientists have said 75% vaccinated/natural immunity was herd immunity levels for almost a year.. The death rate is actually lower than predicted, the infection rate is high yes but infections are not deaths. We reached heard immunity a long time ago and now it's just scaremongering | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Because well erm….. out comes the sales pitch What's the difference between medical advice (including medical advice you don't want to hear) and a sales pitch? I wanted to hear medical advice otherwise I wouldn’t have called him would I. It would have been easy enough to make a decision and get on with life. Medical advice usually is supported with facts. What I heard wasn’t because he didn’t know. He said the words “we don’t know” Ok great I’ll try that…. He was advising you. Honestly, it sounds like. So, he was doing his job? If you asked your doctor if taking a tablet would make your head fall off and he said no idea but you should still probably take it because it stops your arm falling off and you take it, then that says a lot more about you than it does about me. ... Umm. Ok
Maybe Jenner should have been stopped from developing the smallpox vaccine because maybe Hitler would have died of smallpox in his youth
Maybe the smallpox vaccine will cause our descendants with epigenetic damage to give birth to calves. (Combination of current MMR scaremongering and the anti smallpox vaccine scaremongering)
Maybe someone's car will explode today and kill them. Or their house fall down.
If we live based on what if and silly made up hypotheticals we wouldn't get out of bed. Or even into bed because maybe both the bed and the building are structurally unsound and will cause a prolonged agonising death when they collapse
... Or we go, what's the risk, what's the benefit, what's the level of uncertainty, and we make an informed decision on that basis.
I’d make an informed decision if I’d been informed. He said he doesn’t know. It could be 0.5% chance it could be 90%
What if it’s 90%?
Honestly you’re just looking to poke at someone. What I’ve said is perfectly reasonable to anyone who has any kind of objective reasoning capability
Genuinely. I'm curious as to the difference between a sales pitch and medical advice.
Statistics exist on the risk of adverse effects. I'm sorry if the doctor didn't know them. But ultimately we don't know everything or everyone's individual risk.
The sales pitch was the fluff rather than advice. He got confused, stumbled over his words and sounded like he wasn’t sure what else he could say to me. So he began saying the “vaccine is the best possible current protection against Covid” which I don’t dispute or fault. But he didn’t give me any actual advice. He was very careful not to say “I think you should go ahead and have it” and make it personal to me in any way. It was quite alarming. I may indeed go see the nurse instead.
The advice he gave you was; "the vaccine is the best possible current protection against Covid”
The choice to have it or not is down to you/each of us.
I suspect if there was a genuine medical reason why you personally shouldn't get the vaccine he'd have said so.
I have a bit of sympathy for GPs, they're caught between a rock and a hard place.
We want absolutes. They're not that simple to give.
E
No that wasn’t advice. That was the sales pitch. Gareth Southgate said the exact same thing.
I didn’t go to see him for the collective. I went for myself as an individual. I didn’t ask for an absolute a bloody estimate would have done.
He didn’t know. He had No idea at all
And you’re telling me you think taking a risk that’s somewhere between 0 and 100 percent is worth it. Well thank you for your advice I’ll be sure to take it into consideration along with Gareth’s. "Why don’t you get further opinions and ask to speak to different doctors if your not happy with your own and their response?
Taking it and not taking it- risks either way. At least that way you’d be able to make a decision your happy with x | |||
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"Because well erm….. out comes the sales pitch What's the difference between medical advice (including medical advice you don't want to hear) and a sales pitch? I wanted to hear medical advice otherwise I wouldn’t have called him would I. It would have been easy enough to make a decision and get on with life. Medical advice usually is supported with facts. What I heard wasn’t because he didn’t know. He said the words “we don’t know” Ok great I’ll try that…. He was advising you. Honestly, it sounds like. So, he was doing his job? If you asked your doctor if taking a tablet would make your head fall off and he said no idea but you should still probably take it because it stops your arm falling off and you take it, then that says a lot more about you than it does about me. ... Umm. Ok
Maybe Jenner should have been stopped from developing the smallpox vaccine because maybe Hitler would have died of smallpox in his youth
Maybe the smallpox vaccine will cause our descendants with epigenetic damage to give birth to calves. (Combination of current MMR scaremongering and the anti smallpox vaccine scaremongering)
Maybe someone's car will explode today and kill them. Or their house fall down.
If we live based on what if and silly made up hypotheticals we wouldn't get out of bed. Or even into bed because maybe both the bed and the building are structurally unsound and will cause a prolonged agonising death when they collapse
... Or we go, what's the risk, what's the benefit, what's the level of uncertainty, and we make an informed decision on that basis.
I’d make an informed decision if I’d been informed. He said he doesn’t know. It could be 0.5% chance it could be 90%
What if it’s 90%?
Honestly you’re just looking to poke at someone. What I’ve said is perfectly reasonable to anyone who has any kind of objective reasoning capability
Genuinely. I'm curious as to the difference between a sales pitch and medical advice.
Statistics exist on the risk of adverse effects. I'm sorry if the doctor didn't know them. But ultimately we don't know everything or everyone's individual risk.
The sales pitch was the fluff rather than advice. He got confused, stumbled over his words and sounded like he wasn’t sure what else he could say to me. So he began saying the “vaccine is the best possible current protection against Covid” which I don’t dispute or fault. But he didn’t give me any actual advice. He was very careful not to say “I think you should go ahead and have it” and make it personal to me in any way. It was quite alarming. I may indeed go see the nurse instead.
The advice he gave you was; "the vaccine is the best possible current protection against Covid”
The choice to have it or not is down to you/each of us.
I suspect if there was a genuine medical reason why you personally shouldn't get the vaccine he'd have said so.
I have a bit of sympathy for GPs, they're caught between a rock and a hard place.
We want absolutes. They're not that simple to give.
E
No that wasn’t advice. That was the sales pitch. Gareth Southgate said the exact same thing.
I didn’t go to see him for the collective. I went for myself as an individual. I didn’t ask for an absolute a bloody estimate would have done.
He didn’t know. He had No idea at all
And you’re telling me you think taking a risk that’s somewhere between 0 and 100 percent is worth it. Well thank you for your advice I’ll be sure to take it into consideration along with Gareth’s. "I think, if I wasn't satisfied with a GPs response I'd get a second opinion from another GP. If "the vaccine is the best possible current protection against Covid” isn't advice, I really don't know what is. E | |||
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"Why don’t you get further opinions and ask to speak to different doctors if your not happy with your own and their response?
Taking it and not taking it- risks either way. At least that way you’d be able to make a decision your happy with x "Oh hello L, fancy seeing you here! | |||
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"Why don’t you get further opinions and ask to speak to different doctors if your not happy with your own and their response?
Taking it and not taking it- risks either way. At least that way you’d be able to make a decision your happy with x
Oh hello L, fancy seeing you here! " | |||
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"Whose one the right side of history..state your case backed by facts with a link to your sources. No media sources (bbc/red top papers) unless direct quotes from academics/organisations Lets settle this debate ( or at least attempt to) "This titels wrong not everyone not having the jab is anti vaccine some have medical reasons or feeling like this particular vaccine is stripping rights away or no clear evidence to what it does or that these vaccines have no side effects last I heard from the government but I have heard of loads of side effects and this blatant segregation and attack to those who are sceptical is wrong there doing what they believe is right for them. | |||
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"Given that we largely can't post links in the forum *except* for media, I'm not sure how this is possible. Have to just use old fashioned citations of printed academic journals then. But there must be agreement on the referencing standard used to keep all posts on equal footing. Given that we are in the UK I suggest that everyone should use the Harvard referencing style as standardised in "British Standard BS ISO 690:2010 Information and documentation. Guidelines for bibliographic references and citations to information resources." "What he said | |||
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"Whose one the right side of history..state your case backed by facts with a link to your sources. No media sources (bbc/red top papers) unless direct quotes from academics/organisations Lets settle this debate ( or at least attempt to)
This titels wrong not everyone not having the jab is anti vaccine some have medical reasons or feeling like this particular vaccine is stripping rights away or no clear evidence to what it does or that these vaccines have no side effects last I heard from the government but I have heard of loads of side effects and this blatant segregation and attack to those who are sceptical is wrong there doing what they believe is right for them. "If all of this has proved anything it's that your personal decisions can be discounted if the mob decide. We have government officials comparing non vaxxed people to d*unk drivers... its only a matter of time before they outright call people not vaxxed murderers | |||
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"Whose one the right side of history..state your case backed by facts with a link to your sources. No media sources (bbc/red top papers) unless direct quotes from academics/organisations Lets settle this debate ( or at least attempt to)
This titels wrong not everyone not having the jab is anti vaccine some have medical reasons or feeling like this particular vaccine is stripping rights away or no clear evidence to what it does or that these vaccines have no side effects last I heard from the government but I have heard of loads of side effects and this blatant segregation and attack to those who are sceptical is wrong there doing what they believe is right for them. "If someone is sceptical they probably haven't made a decision. The best thing to do is get some information from reliable and reputable sources and remove that scepticism. Become an informed individual. E | |||
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"Whose one the right side of history..state your case backed by facts with a link to your sources. No media sources (bbc/red top papers) unless direct quotes from academics/organisations Lets settle this debate ( or at least attempt to)
This titels wrong not everyone not having the jab is anti vaccine some have medical reasons or feeling like this particular vaccine is stripping rights away or no clear evidence to what it does or that these vaccines have no side effects last I heard from the government but I have heard of loads of side effects and this blatant segregation and attack to those who are sceptical is wrong there doing what they believe is right for them.
If all of this has proved anything it's that your personal decisions can be discounted if the mob decide.
We have government officials comparing non vaxxed people to d*unk drivers... its only a matter of time before they outright call people not vaxxed murderers"If we're going to talk in extremes to make a point..... Person A is deliberately and wilfully unvaccinated (as opposed to medically exempt), catches Covid, gives it to someone else, who dies. What would you call Person A? E | |||
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"Whose one the right side of history..state your case backed by facts with a link to your sources. No media sources (bbc/red top papers) unless direct quotes from academics/organisations Lets settle this debate ( or at least attempt to)
Your very first few words "Whose one the right side of history" suggest your mind is already made up.
Given that people have posted credible links to many of your previous comments, and you've completely ignored them, there seems little point to your thread.
E"I didn't know this if you refuse to look at both sides how can you even class this as your choice you followed the crowd got your incentives and shinny things and you think all is good not actually stopping to think why are these incentives needed or why is so much of whats reported changing daily. 6 months ago Wu han lab making corona was a conspiracy and banned from being mentioned on social media now actually being investigated as a potential reality to the cause of the virus open your mind and eyes observe what's around you and decide from there like a scientist not a child doing what it's told by big brother lol | |||
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"Whose one the right side of history..state your case backed by facts with a link to your sources. No media sources (bbc/red top papers) unless direct quotes from academics/organisations Lets settle this debate ( or at least attempt to)
This titels wrong not everyone not having the jab is anti vaccine some have medical reasons or feeling like this particular vaccine is stripping rights away or no clear evidence to what it does or that these vaccines have no side effects last I heard from the government but I have heard of loads of side effects and this blatant segregation and attack to those who are sceptical is wrong there doing what they believe is right for them.
If all of this has proved anything it's that your personal decisions can be discounted if the mob decide.
We have government officials comparing non vaxxed people to d*unk drivers... its only a matter of time before they outright call people not vaxxed murderers"Personal decisions have always been over ridden by the masses. I find it amazing people only just realise this. On a basic level, I can't chose to drive a car without a licence, on a bigger scale the government can force me out of my own home (compulsory purchase orders). Rights are not absolute, you only have the rights given to you by others. If society decides to revoke those rights then that is the way it goes. You used to have the right to travel without a photo passport, now you need one. | |||
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"Whose one the right side of history..state your case backed by facts with a link to your sources. No media sources (bbc/red top papers) unless direct quotes from academics/organisations Lets settle this debate ( or at least attempt to)
Your very first few words "Whose one the right side of history" suggest your mind is already made up.
Given that people have posted credible links to many of your previous comments, and you've completely ignored them, there seems little point to your thread.
E
I didn't know this if you refuse to look at both sides how can you even class this as your choice you followed the crowd got your incentives and shinny things and you think all is good not actually stopping to think why are these incentives needed or why is so much of whats reported changing daily. 6 months ago Wu han lab making corona was a conspiracy and banned from being mentioned on social media now actually being investigated as a potential reality to the cause of the virus open your mind and eyes observe what's around you and decide from there like a scientist not a child doing what it's told by big brother lol "I researched in detail and looked at both sides of an argument before choosing wether or not to have a vaccine. Just because some chose to have it, doesn’t mean they have followed a crowd, have taken incentives or are too silly to see balanced arguments. It’s comments like these that divide rather than allow people to engage. | |||
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"Whose one the right side of history..state your case backed by facts with a link to your sources. No media sources (bbc/red top papers) unless direct quotes from academics/organisations Lets settle this debate ( or at least attempt to)
Your very first few words "Whose one the right side of history" suggest your mind is already made up.
Given that people have posted credible links to many of your previous comments, and you've completely ignored them, there seems little point to your thread.
E
I didn't know this if you refuse to look at both sides how can you even class this as your choice you followed the crowd got your incentives and shinny things and you think all is good not actually stopping to think why are these incentives needed or why is so much of whats reported changing daily. 6 months ago Wu han lab making corona was a conspiracy and banned from being mentioned on social media now actually being investigated as a potential reality to the cause of the virus open your mind and eyes observe what's around you and decide from there like a scientist not a child doing what it's told by big brother lol "There aren't two "sides" to this. It's not Chelsea V Manchester City where both have an equal chance of winning. There is information from credible sources within the scientific community, people with decades of relevant experience in their fields, and Spotty Dave who sits in a room above his mums garage, sat in his pants, while posting drivel on social media. If anyone's reference source is Spotty Dave, or a host of discredited and debunked theorists they really need to adjust their thought processes. E | |||
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"Whose one the right side of history..state your case backed by facts with a link to your sources. No media sources (bbc/red top papers) unless direct quotes from academics/organisations Lets settle this debate ( or at least attempt to)
Your very first few words "Whose one the right side of history" suggest your mind is already made up.
Given that people have posted credible links to many of your previous comments, and you've completely ignored them, there seems little point to your thread.
E
I didn't know this if you refuse to look at both sides how can you even class this as your choice you followed the crowd got your incentives and shinny things and you think all is good not actually stopping to think why are these incentives needed or why is so much of whats reported changing daily. 6 months ago Wu han lab making corona was a conspiracy and banned from being mentioned on social media now actually being investigated as a potential reality to the cause of the virus open your mind and eyes observe what's around you and decide from there like a scientist not a child doing what it's told by big brother lol
I researched in detail and looked at both sides of an argument before choosing wether or not to have a vaccine.
Just because some chose to have it, doesn’t mean they have followed a crowd, have taken incentives or are too silly to see balanced arguments.
It’s comments like these that divide rather than allow people to engage. "Quite. Not everyone who agrees with the "mainstream" is an unthinking sheeple. Some of us have it a great deal of thought. | |||
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"Whose one the right side of history..state your case backed by facts with a link to your sources. No media sources (bbc/red top papers) unless direct quotes from academics/organisations Lets settle this debate ( or at least attempt to)
Your very first few words "Whose one the right side of history" suggest your mind is already made up.
Given that people have posted credible links to many of your previous comments, and you've completely ignored them, there seems little point to your thread.
E
I didn't know this if you refuse to look at both sides how can you even class this as your choice you followed the crowd got your incentives and shinny things and you think all is good not actually stopping to think why are these incentives needed or why is so much of whats reported changing daily. 6 months ago Wu han lab making corona was a conspiracy and banned from being mentioned on social media now actually being investigated as a potential reality to the cause of the virus open your mind and eyes observe what's around you and decide from there like a scientist not a child doing what it's told by big brother lol
There aren't two "sides" to this. It's not Chelsea V Manchester City where both have an equal chance of winning.
There is information from credible sources within the scientific community, people with decades of relevant experience in their fields, and Spotty Dave who sits in a room above his mums garage, sat in his pants, while posting drivel on social media.
If anyone's reference source is Spotty Dave, or a host of discredited and debunked theorists they really need to adjust their thought processes.
E "I never listen to Spotty Dave. My goto for reliable information is Pimple Pete | |||
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"I’ve had both my jabs purely as it means I don’t have to isolate on returning from work and it means I can spend more time with my daughter. But it doesn’t stop you catching it and doesn’t stop you spreading it so not really sure what it dose do ?? And all these people quoting doctors just remember for a long long time doctors actually encouraged smoking as being good for you. So I can understand the people who doubt vaccinates that haven’t been extensively tested. Oh yeh and I also had covid pre vaccine so know what it’s like too and Being type 2 diabetic it should have hit me hard but didn’t. " It works the same as almost any other vaccine we have - reducing severe disease and death. | |||
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"But if we can still catch it and still transmit it then why do we no longer need to isolate? " Ask the government. They make that decision. | |||
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" It works the same as almost any other vaccine we have - reducing severe disease and death." How many deaths do you think occurred purely from covid? Zero pre existing health issues, just covid. It's not as many as the BBC would like you to think. It's not even half | |||
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" It works the same as almost any other vaccine we have - reducing severe disease and death. How many deaths do you think occurred purely from covid? Zero pre existing health issues, just covid. It's not as many as the BBC would like you to think. It's not even half " Pre existing health condition doesn’t mean on deaths door already. You’d be surprised how many of us have them until it’s made known in matters of life and death. Madness attitude. | |||
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" It works the same as almost any other vaccine we have - reducing severe disease and death. How many deaths do you think occurred purely from covid? Zero pre existing health issues, just covid. It's not as many as the BBC would like you to think. It's not even half Pre existing health condition doesn’t mean on deaths door already. You’d be surprised how many of us have them until it’s made known in matters of life and death. Madness attitude. " I know what a pre existing health condition is... So again how many deaths caused solely from c-19 So somebody like myself who's only health concerns are bones I broke as a kid.. How many people like that died from covid | |||
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" It works the same as almost any other vaccine we have - reducing severe disease and death. How many deaths do you think occurred purely from covid? Zero pre existing health issues, just covid. It's not as many as the BBC would like you to think. It's not even half " So it's ok by you that people with pre-existing conditions die a slow agonising death, or end up disabled? That the NHS is overrun, its staff traumatised? That while they're dealing with all of this, operations are cancelled, cancer treatments delayed, other services are emergency only? Or did RT not feed you that information along with the chant of the free independent thinker? "We are all individuals. Pre existing conditions. May Putin be praised. Snowflake" | |||
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" It works the same as almost any other vaccine we have - reducing severe disease and death. How many deaths do you think occurred purely from covid? Zero pre existing health issues, just covid. It's not as many as the BBC would like you to think. It's not even half So it's ok by you that people with pre-existing conditions die a slow agonising death, or end up disabled? That the NHS is overrun, its staff traumatised? That while they're dealing with all of this, operations are cancelled, cancer treatments delayed, other services are emergency only? Or did RT not feed you that information along with the chant of the free independent thinker? "We are all individuals. Pre existing conditions. May Putin be praised. Snowflake"" What hospitals were overwhelmed? During the worst part of the pandemic nhs staff were dancing on tiktok with no masks and reporting that their wards were empty. If anything the covid situation sped up waiting times in my experience. I had to take members of my kitchen to a&e twice during all this and both time was in and out quicker than a hairdressers... when I had covid I was dealt with on video call... | |||
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" It works the same as almost any other vaccine we have - reducing severe disease and death. How many deaths do you think occurred purely from covid? Zero pre existing health issues, just covid. It's not as many as the BBC would like you to think. It's not even half So it's ok by you that people with pre-existing conditions die a slow agonising death, or end up disabled? That the NHS is overrun, its staff traumatised? That while they're dealing with all of this, operations are cancelled, cancer treatments delayed, other services are emergency only? Or did RT not feed you that information along with the chant of the free independent thinker? "We are all individuals. Pre existing conditions. May Putin be praised. Snowflake" What hospitals were overwhelmed? During the worst part of the pandemic nhs staff were dancing on tiktok with no masks and reporting that their wards were empty. If anything the covid situation sped up waiting times in my experience. I had to take members of my kitchen to a&e twice during all this and both time was in and out quicker than a hairdressers... when I had covid I was dealt with on video call..." Ok. If you say so. | |||
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" It works the same as almost any other vaccine we have - reducing severe disease and death. How many deaths do you think occurred purely from covid? Zero pre existing health issues, just covid. It's not as many as the BBC would like you to think. It's not even half So it's ok by you that people with pre-existing conditions die a slow agonising death, or end up disabled? That the NHS is overrun, its staff traumatised? That while they're dealing with all of this, operations are cancelled, cancer treatments delayed, other services are emergency only? Or did RT not feed you that information along with the chant of the free independent thinker? "We are all individuals. Pre existing conditions. May Putin be praised. Snowflake" What hospitals were overwhelmed? During the worst part of the pandemic nhs staff were dancing on tiktok with no masks and reporting that their wards were empty. If anything the covid situation sped up waiting times in my experience. I had to take members of my kitchen to a&e twice during all this and both time was in and out quicker than a hairdressers... when I had covid I was dealt with on video call... Ok. If you say so. " Oh no actual comeback then is that because you know that all the things I just posted are true and easily findable on youtube/tiktok/twitter/Instagram and the death rate is actually lower than 10k for c-19 exclusive deaths, and the weekly death rate as of 2 weeks ago was less than double digits | |||
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"Quite literally kicking off outside the BBC. Silly fuckers. " The license fee gone up again. | |||
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"Alex bedfield, the voice of reason. He posted a video claiming that it’s only a 55% 45% split between the people currently in hospital with covid, vaccinated / non vaccinated. Still a strong no from me "We did the sums on that. 0.5% of the vaccinated were in hospital as compared to 5.5% of the unvaccinated. That's an eleven fold difference. | |||
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" It works the same as almost any other vaccine we have - reducing severe disease and death. How many deaths do you think occurred purely from covid? Zero pre existing health issues, just covid. It's not as many as the BBC would like you to think. It's not even half So it's ok by you that people with pre-existing conditions die a slow agonising death, or end up disabled? That the NHS is overrun, its staff traumatised? That while they're dealing with all of this, operations are cancelled, cancer treatments delayed, other services are emergency only? Or did RT not feed you that information along with the chant of the free independent thinker? "We are all individuals. Pre existing conditions. May Putin be praised. Snowflake" What hospitals were overwhelmed? During the worst part of the pandemic nhs staff were dancing on tiktok with no masks and reporting that their wards were empty. If anything the covid situation sped up waiting times in my experience. I had to take members of my kitchen to a&e twice during all this and both time was in and out quicker than a hairdressers... when I had covid I was dealt with on video call... Ok. If you say so. Oh no actual comeback then is that because you know that all the things I just posted are true and easily findable on youtube/tiktok/twitter/Instagram and the death rate is actually lower than 10k for c-19 exclusive deaths, and the weekly death rate as of 2 weeks ago was less than double digits" Are you citing youtube/tiktok/twitter/Instagram as reliable sources of credible, reputable and reliable information? E | |||
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"I know healthy people with no pre existing conditions floored by covid. Not everyone with a pre existing condition will have a bad reaction either though. I have severe asthma, I've had worse colds/flu/chest infections than what I experienced with covid. Its not a simple matter of, if you dont have A or B, dont worry about it." Never said it was a case of a or b I asked for a number of covid only deaths. My covid was manflu well manflu hits me harder every November... My friend that has to have dialisys (sp?) Monthly was doing yoga after day 3 of being diagnosed. Oh and she refuses the vaccine as she's had covid and has built natural immunity (as far as immunity goes) My 78 year old neighbour never stopped going out and when he had it i was looking after him in a general sense of making sure he was ok but he still got out of bed and as he put it your going to die it's not a preventable thing. | |||
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" It works the same as almost any other vaccine we have - reducing severe disease and death. How many deaths do you think occurred purely from covid? Zero pre existing health issues, just covid. It's not as many as the BBC would like you to think. It's not even half So it's ok by you that people with pre-existing conditions die a slow agonising death, or end up disabled? That the NHS is overrun, its staff traumatised? That while they're dealing with all of this, operations are cancelled, cancer treatments delayed, other services are emergency only? Or did RT not feed you that information along with the chant of the free independent thinker? "We are all individuals. Pre existing conditions. May Putin be praised. Snowflake" What hospitals were overwhelmed? During the worst part of the pandemic nhs staff were dancing on tiktok with no masks and reporting that their wards were empty. If anything the covid situation sped up waiting times in my experience. I had to take members of my kitchen to a&e twice during all this and both time was in and out quicker than a hairdressers... when I had covid I was dealt with on video call... Ok. If you say so. Oh no actual comeback then is that because you know that all the things I just posted are true and easily findable on youtube/tiktok/twitter/Instagram and the death rate is actually lower than 10k for c-19 exclusive deaths, and the weekly death rate as of 2 weeks ago was less than double digits" No, it's because I find your argument ridiculous and based on misinformation disproved months ago. Enjoy your Russian propaganda. From the prestigious science journals TikTok and Instagram | |||
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" It works the same as almost any other vaccine we have - reducing severe disease and death. How many deaths do you think occurred purely from covid? Zero pre existing health issues, just covid. It's not as many as the BBC would like you to think. It's not even half So it's ok by you that people with pre-existing conditions die a slow agonising death, or end up disabled? That the NHS is overrun, its staff traumatised? That while they're dealing with all of this, operations are cancelled, cancer treatments delayed, other services are emergency only? Or did RT not feed you that information along with the chant of the free independent thinker? "We are all individuals. Pre existing conditions. May Putin be praised. Snowflake" What hospitals were overwhelmed? During the worst part of the pandemic nhs staff were dancing on tiktok with no masks and reporting that their wards were empty. If anything the covid situation sped up waiting times in my experience. I had to take members of my kitchen to a&e twice during all this and both time was in and out quicker than a hairdressers... when I had covid I was dealt with on video call... Ok. If you say so. Oh no actual comeback then is that because you know that all the things I just posted are true and easily findable on youtube/tiktok/twitter/Instagram and the death rate is actually lower than 10k for c-19 exclusive deaths, and the weekly death rate as of 2 weeks ago was less than double digits Are you citing youtube/tiktok/twitter/Instagram as reliable sources of credible, reputable and reliable information? E " Why not. | |||
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" It works the same as almost any other vaccine we have - reducing severe disease and death. How many deaths do you think occurred purely from covid? Zero pre existing health issues, just covid. It's not as many as the BBC would like you to think. It's not even half So it's ok by you that people with pre-existing conditions die a slow agonising death, or end up disabled? That the NHS is overrun, its staff traumatised? That while they're dealing with all of this, operations are cancelled, cancer treatments delayed, other services are emergency only? Or did RT not feed you that information along with the chant of the free independent thinker? "We are all individuals. Pre existing conditions. May Putin be praised. Snowflake" What hospitals were overwhelmed? During the worst part of the pandemic nhs staff were dancing on tiktok with no masks and reporting that their wards were empty. If anything the covid situation sped up waiting times in my experience. I had to take members of my kitchen to a&e twice during all this and both time was in and out quicker than a hairdressers... when I had covid I was dealt with on video call... Ok. If you say so. Oh no actual comeback then is that because you know that all the things I just posted are true and easily findable on youtube/tiktok/twitter/Instagram and the death rate is actually lower than 10k for c-19 exclusive deaths, and the weekly death rate as of 2 weeks ago was less than double digits Are you citing youtube/tiktok/twitter/Instagram as reliable sources of credible, reputable and reliable information? E " No I'm quoting them as locations you can go and watch his staff in wards with 1 or 2 beds being used dancing. Or the his workers that were filming on their covid wards showing empty beds asking where all the talk of overwhelmed staff are. | |||
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"I know healthy people with no pre existing conditions floored by covid. Not everyone with a pre existing condition will have a bad reaction either though. I have severe asthma, I've had worse colds/flu/chest infections than what I experienced with covid. Its not a simple matter of, if you dont have A or B, dont worry about it. Never said it was a case of a or b I asked for a number of covid only deaths. My covid was manflu well manflu hits me harder every November... My friend that has to have dialisys (sp?) Monthly was doing yoga after day 3 of being diagnosed. Oh and she refuses the vaccine as she's had covid and has built natural immunity (as far as immunity goes) My 78 year old neighbour never stopped going out and when he had it i was looking after him in a general sense of making sure he was ok but he still got out of bed and as he put it your going to die it's not a preventable thing." Those 2 examples are great. Happy for them... but not everyone’s the same. Lost a colleague (who wasn’t dancing round on tik tok or doing nothing as you said) who had no other health issues... numerous young friends have been extremely poorly. It’s great the people you knew were lucky... maybe you could try see it from others points of _iew | |||
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" It works the same as almost any other vaccine we have - reducing severe disease and death. How many deaths do you think occurred purely from covid? Zero pre existing health issues, just covid. It's not as many as the BBC would like you to think. It's not even half So it's ok by you that people with pre-existing conditions die a slow agonising death, or end up disabled? That the NHS is overrun, its staff traumatised? That while they're dealing with all of this, operations are cancelled, cancer treatments delayed, other services are emergency only? Or did RT not feed you that information along with the chant of the free independent thinker? "We are all individuals. Pre existing conditions. May Putin be praised. Snowflake" What hospitals were overwhelmed? During the worst part of the pandemic nhs staff were dancing on tiktok with no masks and reporting that their wards were empty. If anything the covid situation sped up waiting times in my experience. I had to take members of my kitchen to a&e twice during all this and both time was in and out quicker than a hairdressers... when I had covid I was dealt with on video call... Ok. If you say so. Oh no actual comeback then is that because you know that all the things I just posted are true and easily findable on youtube/tiktok/twitter/Instagram and the death rate is actually lower than 10k for c-19 exclusive deaths, and the weekly death rate as of 2 weeks ago was less than double digits Are you citing youtube/tiktok/twitter/Instagram as reliable sources of credible, reputable and reliable information? E Why not. "To be fair, youtube/tiktok/twitter/Instagram do seem to be the go-to guys for some people. God Bless social media.
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