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Covert attempt for "herd immunity"
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"I ha e had this impression ever since the announcement that all restrictions would be lifted and then changing travel international travel restrictions and no longer checking arrivals. Nog just me it seems. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/23/ministers-letting-young-people-catch-covid-to-prepare-for-winter-sage-adviser-claims" I don’t think that there is anything covert about it. The vast majority of those who are going to be vaccinated have been and if e ever want to get back to anything like a normal life we have to do what we are doing now. | |||
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"It's not covert at all, and it's not responsible before people have had the chance to be protected from *both* jabs " There are vast amounts of younger people who won’t have the jab for one reason or another. This means the only way out of this is to for those younger people who on the whole won’t become seriously ill or die is to catch it. Like it or not people are going to have to go along with this the only other option is to keep people locked down forever. | |||
"It's not covert at all, and it's not responsible before people have had the chance to be protected from *both* jabs There are vast amounts of younger people who won’t have the jab for one reason or another. This means the only way out of this is to for those younger people who on the whole won’t become seriously ill or die is to catch it. Like it or not people are going to have to go along with this the only other option is to keep people locked down forever. " 90% of adults have had their first dose. It's not "vast" | |||
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"It's not covert at all, and it's not responsible before people have had the chance to be protected from *both* jabs There are vast amounts of younger people who won’t have the jab for one reason or another. This means the only way out of this is to for those younger people who on the whole won’t become seriously ill or die is to catch it. Like it or not people are going to have to go along with this the only other option is to keep people locked down forever. " "young" people have not even been given the opportunity to have both jabs yet. This is not covert in any way at all and it's yet more taking the piss out of our youngsters. They will not forget their shabby treatment. It's not the only course by a long way. It's the laziest and easiest course. It's reckless and in my opinion criminally negligent. Still at least we had the euros.... | |||
"yup, no surprise hearing this confirmed bit of a gamble but I'm up for a gamble, let's see how it plays out" Yeah everyone enjoys buying a raffle ticket or putting a quid on the gee-gees. Not so sure about gambling on the health of the entire nation so that I can go to the pub in July, when it would have been just as easy to wait a couple of months and really finish the vaccination job... Still a few thousand kids dead or crippled, who gives a fuck as long as we enjoy the thrill of throwing the dice, they were probably all poorly anyway, wouldn't have lived past 60... | |||
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"yup, no surprise hearing this confirmed bit of a gamble but I'm up for a gamble, let's see how it plays out Yeah everyone enjoys buying a raffle ticket or putting a quid on the gee-gees. Not so sure about gambling on the health of the entire nation so that I can go to the pub in July, when it would have been just as easy to wait a couple of months and really finish the vaccination job... Still a few thousand kids dead or crippled, who gives a fuck as long as we enjoy the thrill of throwing the dice, they were probably all poorly anyway, wouldn't have lived past 60..." Why wait when the "young" and healthy have a much higher survival rate than the "old". The vaccine doesn't stop transmission. It decreases the chance of becoming terminally ill if infected. If the healthy are less likely to become terminally ill why force them to take a vaccine that is essentially still in medical trials?. We are becoming a society that has gone from being open and accepting to all. To a society that judges and isolates those that has their own opinion and don't conform with government guidelines | |||
"yup, no surprise hearing this confirmed bit of a gamble but I'm up for a gamble, let's see how it plays out Yeah everyone enjoys buying a raffle ticket or putting a quid on the gee-gees. Not so sure about gambling on the health of the entire nation so that I can go to the pub in July, when it would have been just as easy to wait a couple of months and really finish the vaccination job... Still a few thousand kids dead or crippled, who gives a fuck as long as we enjoy the thrill of throwing the dice, they were probably all poorly anyway, wouldn't have lived past 60... Why wait when the "young" and healthy have a much higher survival rate than the "old". The vaccine doesn't stop transmission. It decreases the chance of becoming terminally ill if infected. If the healthy are less likely to become terminally ill why force them to take a vaccine that is essentially still in medical trials?. We are becoming a society that has gone from being open and accepting to all. To a society that judges and isolates those that has their own opinion and don't conform with government guidelines " Did i say i was forcing anyone to take a vaccine? There are currently 46 million people in the uk who have indicated that they certainly want to be vaccinated, by having taken the first dose. But only 36 million have had the second dose yet. So that's 10 million adults who definitely wish to be protected by vaccines, who are not yet fully protected. There are also 370,000 children who have been identified as being highly vulnerable to covid and will be offered vaccines, but as of yet very few of these have been done. Ten million adults. 370,000 children. None of these are being forced to take vaccines. All of them are at risk. But in the full knowledge that cases of the delta variant are exploding everywhere in the country, Johnson and his cabinet of horrors have discarded all legal restrictions, essentially saying that none of these people matter. They have told people that masks can be thrown away, crowd together as much as you like. They have loud and clear sent a message that anyone who is still vulnerable are on their own, fuck 'em, let 'em die. You said "We are becoming a society that has gone from being open and accepting to all. To a society that judges and isolates those that has their own opinion and don't conform with government guidelines." But what you are really saying is that you are not willing to even wear a bit of cloth over your face when you are on a crowded bus. You're not willing to turn your head if you sneeze, that it is your "right" to pass any germs you have along to others. We have actually gone from being a society that cared for the elderly, the infirm, the children, to one that says fuck it let them die, not my problem, don't give a shit, they would be better off dead anyway. A society full of people that say "I don't want protection from a disease, and I'm not even going to allow people that have said they want protection, the chance to get that protection." You say "why force them to take a vaccine" but your actions say "I'm going to deny them the opportunity to take a vaccine". UK government has failed. UK society has failed. Decent people have just not cared enough to stop corrupt, venal, self-centred, indecent people. We are all to blame. Maybe covid is what we all deserve. | |||
"yup, no surprise hearing this confirmed bit of a gamble but I'm up for a gamble, let's see how it plays out Yeah everyone enjoys buying a raffle ticket or putting a quid on the gee-gees. Not so sure about gambling on the health of the entire nation so that I can go to the pub in July, when it would have been just as easy to wait a couple of months and really finish the vaccination job... Still a few thousand kids dead or crippled, who gives a fuck as long as we enjoy the thrill of throwing the dice, they were probably all poorly anyway, wouldn't have lived past 60... Why wait when the "young" and healthy have a much higher survival rate than the "old". The vaccine doesn't stop transmission. It decreases the chance of becoming terminally ill if infected. If the healthy are less likely to become terminally ill why force them to take a vaccine that is essentially still in medical trials?. We are becoming a society that has gone from being open and accepting to all. To a society that judges and isolates those that has their own opinion and don't conform with government guidelines Did i say i was forcing anyone to take a vaccine? There are currently 46 million people in the uk who have indicated that they certainly want to be vaccinated, by having taken the first dose. But only 36 million have had the second dose yet. So that's 10 million adults who definitely wish to be protected by vaccines, who are not yet fully protected. There are also 370,000 children who have been identified as being highly vulnerable to covid and will be offered vaccines, but as of yet very few of these have been done. Ten million adults. 370,000 children. None of these are being forced to take vaccines. All of them are at risk. But in the full knowledge that cases of the delta variant are exploding everywhere in the country, Johnson and his cabinet of horrors have discarded all legal restrictions, essentially saying that none of these people matter. They have told people that masks can be thrown away, crowd together as much as you like. They have loud and clear sent a message that anyone who is still vulnerable are on their own, fuck 'em, let 'em die. You said "We are becoming a society that has gone from being open and accepting to all. To a society that judges and isolates those that has their own opinion and don't conform with government guidelines." But what you are really saying is that you are not willing to even wear a bit of cloth over your face when you are on a crowded bus. You're not willing to turn your head if you sneeze, that it is your "right" to pass any germs you have along to others. We have actually gone from being a society that cared for the elderly, the infirm, the children, to one that says fuck it let them die, not my problem, don't give a shit, they would be better off dead anyway. A society full of people that say "I don't want protection from a disease, and I'm not even going to allow people that have said they want protection, the chance to get that protection." You say "why force them to take a vaccine" but your actions say "I'm going to deny them the opportunity to take a vaccine". UK government has failed. UK society has failed. Decent people have just not cared enough to stop corrupt, venal, self-centred, indecent people. We are all to blame. Maybe covid is what we all deserve." Waiting until everyone has had the second vaccine takes us into autumn. Things will be fucked again all winter by then. So the gamble is the quicker route to better immunity in the young, and stress test vaccine immunity in the old, while hospitals are not crammed full of people with winter-related illnesses. Anyone over 40 has had time to get both vaccines. You snooze, you lose. | |||
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"It's not covert at all, and it's not responsible before people have had the chance to be protected from *both* jabs There are vast amounts of younger people who won’t have the jab for one reason or another. This means the only way out of this is to for those younger people who on the whole won’t become seriously ill or die is to catch it. Like it or not people are going to have to go along with this the only other option is to keep people locked down forever. " and how many young people have died from the virus do you know??? When the average age of death is 82 with underlying illness.. | |||
"It's not covert at all, and it's not responsible before people have had the chance to be protected from *both* jabs There are vast amounts of younger people who won’t have the jab for one reason or another. This means the only way out of this is to for those younger people who on the whole won’t become seriously ill or die is to catch it. Like it or not people are going to have to go along with this the only other option is to keep people locked down forever. and how many young people have died from the virus do you know??? When the average age of death is 82 with underlying illness.. " Average figure is just that "average" It doesn't mean younger people have not died from the virus. They have, as have older than "average". It appears that some people don't understand how average figures are made up and just see the age then think it's just people in 80's dying. My son is 30, he's previously had chemo and could die from Covid. Got his 2nd Jab yesterday. Replicate that across the country, younger people who are vunerable but weren't considered so by NHS, lots of people at risk. We need to open up before flu season but we also need to proceed with caution until all who want it have had 2 jabs. | |||
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"It's not covert at all, and it's not responsible before people have had the chance to be protected from *both* jabs There are vast amounts of younger people who won’t have the jab for one reason or another. This means the only way out of this is to for those younger people who on the whole won’t become seriously ill or die is to catch it. Like it or not people are going to have to go along with this the only other option is to keep people locked down forever. and how many young people have died from the virus do you know??? When the average age of death is 82 with underlying illness.. Average figure is just that "average" It doesn't mean younger people have not died from the virus. They have, as have older than "average". It appears that some people don't understand how average figures are made up and just see the age then think it's just people in 80's dying. My son is 30, he's previously had chemo and could die from Covid. Got his 2nd Jab yesterday. Replicate that across the country, younger people who are vunerable but weren't considered so by NHS, lots of people at risk. We need to open up before flu season but we also need to proceed with caution until all who want it have had 2 jabs. " I wish your son health x | |||
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"What's Israel doing?" Israel is an interesting one. They have used the Pfizer vaccine at the 3 weeks interval between doses. The efficacy appears to be waining faster than over here where we went for the longer intervals. Recent studies appear to show that 8 weeks gives the best efficacy. | |||
"It's not covert at all, and it's not responsible before people have had the chance to be protected from *both* jabs There are vast amounts of younger people who won’t have the jab for one reason or another. This means the only way out of this is to for those younger people who on the whole won’t become seriously ill or die is to catch it. " Tell that to the youngsters in Hospital at the minute. It also seems in England alone it is 1 in 75 having Covid...but for the younger age group it is 1 in 29 | |||
"yup, no surprise hearing this confirmed bit of a gamble but I'm up for a gamble, let's see how it plays out Yeah everyone enjoys buying a raffle ticket or putting a quid on the gee-gees. Not so sure about gambling on the health of the entire nation so that I can go to the pub in July, when it would have been just as easy to wait a couple of months and really finish the vaccination job... Still a few thousand kids dead or crippled, who gives a fuck as long as we enjoy the thrill of throwing the dice, they were probably all poorly anyway, wouldn't have lived past 60..."  | |||
"ONS data now shows more than 90% immunity in the UK. In vulnerable age groups it is close to 100% https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveyantibodyandvaccinationdatafortheuk/21july2021 " The ONS figures do not refer to "immunity". It refers to the presence of antibodies. That is not the same thing at all. You can catch, pass on, get severely ill or die even with antibodies present. This is offering false security. People are being admitted to hospital with Covid after two vaccinations. | |||
"If people are too scared to go out then stay home, let the rest of us get on with living." I agree. They can hide under their beds. Make it an air raid shelter from a deadly virus that you need a dodgy test to show you have it.. Stay home stay safe. Stay scared. The fear factors working unless you wake up very soon | |||
"If people are too scared to go out then stay home, let the rest of us get on with living.I agree. They can hide under their beds. Make it an air raid shelter from a deadly virus that you need a dodgy test to show you have it.. Stay home stay safe. Stay scared. The fear factors working unless you wake up very soon " I'm perfectly able to assess the situation myself and make my own risk assessment, and the repetition of the idea that we're hysterical and brainwashed is a bit boring, not to mention condescending. | |||
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"I am really surprised at some of the posts on this thread at this point in a global pandemic. Between assertions that it is not serious to vaccinaction providing immunity to accusing people being cautious of doing so out of fear and ignorance it's as if people just don't want to know. We seem to have got to the point where people get impatient at a junction and at someplint just pull out dangerously. If the government want to gamble with herd immunity then it should have the courtesy of telling us." I agree | |||
"If people are too scared to go out then stay home, let the rest of us get on with living.I agree. They can hide under their beds. Make it an air raid shelter from a deadly virus that you need a dodgy test to show you have it.. Stay home stay safe. Stay scared. The fear factors working unless you wake up very soon " fully agree; stay inside a keep death at arms length ! And follow the science and open your window in the middle of winter to keep you safe ; the lunatics are running the asylum! Death comes to us all at some point; no one escapes it , not even those locked up in their wardrobe hiding from delta (or is Beta !) (or Omega) | |||
"It's not covert at all, and it's not responsible before people have had the chance to be protected from *both* jabs There are vast amounts of younger people who won’t have the jab for one reason or another. This means the only way out of this is to for those younger people who on the whole won’t become seriously ill or die is to catch it. Like it or not people are going to have to go along with this the only other option is to keep people locked down forever. and how many young people have died from the virus do you know??? When the average age of death is 82 with underlying illness.. " How many more times.. Its not just about surviving it... Its what damage it does to cognitive abilities.. To organs... To respiratory systems... So a society is perfectly happy taking a gamble on the future health of your children... Yeah that's civilised. | |||
"It's not covert at all, and it's not responsible before people have had the chance to be protected from *both* jabs There are vast amounts of younger people who won’t have the jab for one reason or another. This means the only way out of this is to for those younger people who on the whole won’t become seriously ill or die is to catch it. Like it or not people are going to have to go along with this the only other option is to keep people locked down forever. and how many young people have died from the virus do you know??? When the average age of death is 82 with underlying illness.. How many more times.. Its not just about surviving it... Its what damage it does to cognitive abilities.. To organs... To respiratory systems... So a society is perfectly happy taking a gamble on the future health of your children... Yeah that's civilised. "  | |||
"A very high presence of antibodies within the population is the aim. The higher the presence, the lower the rate of hospitalisation for those who do become infected. The percentage of hospitalisations to infections is currently at 2.5% and reducing the more natural and vaccine immunity increases." England currently has 702 people in hospital who have tested positive for the virus. That is out of a population of 56 Million people. Scotland has a total of 74 people in hospital who have tested positive for Covid. Out of a population of 6 Million people. There are only 14 people in England in hospital with Covid who are not known to have underlying health conditions. Scotland has less than 5 who fall into that category. We have 12 Million people now on the NHS waiting list needing treatment. In Feb 2020 there were only 1,400 people who had been waiting over a year for treatment. | |||
"If people are too scared to go out then stay home, let the rest of us get on with living." Selfish much? | |||
"ONS data now shows more than 90% immunity in the UK. In vulnerable age groups it is close to 100% https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveyantibodyandvaccinationdatafortheuk/21july2021 " What do you mean by immunity? Unable to be infected? So over 90 percent can't catch it...? Yet infection rates are going through the roof. Something doesn't add up. | |||
"A very high presence of antibodies within the population is the aim. The higher the presence, the lower the rate of hospitalisation for those who do become infected. The percentage of hospitalisations to infections is currently at 2.5% and reducing the more natural and vaccine immunity increases. England currently has 702 people in hospital who have tested positive for the virus. That is out of a population of 56 Million people. Scotland has a total of 74 people in hospital who have tested positive for Covid. Out of a population of 6 Million people. There are only 14 people in England in hospital with Covid who are not known to have underlying health conditions. Scotland has less than 5 who fall into that category. We have 12 Million people now on the NHS waiting list needing treatment. In Feb 2020 there were only 1,400 people who had been waiting over a year for treatment. " Gee, I wonder why the NHS has been slammed this year or so...  | |||
"ONS data now shows more than 90% immunity in the UK. In vulnerable age groups it is close to 100% https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveyantibodyandvaccinationdatafortheuk/21july2021 What do you mean by immunity? Unable to be infected? So over 90 percent can't catch it...? Yet infection rates are going through the roof. Something doesn't add up. " As pointed out earlier I misused the term immunity . High infection rates do not now equate to high rates of hospitalisation and death | |||
"A very high presence of antibodies within the population is the aim. The higher the presence, the lower the rate of hospitalisation for those who do become infected. The percentage of hospitalisations to infections is currently at 2.5% and reducing the more natural and vaccine immunity increases. England currently has 702 people in hospital who have tested positive for the virus. That is out of a population of 56 Million people. Scotland has a total of 74 people in hospital who have tested positive for Covid. Out of a population of 6 Million people. There are only 14 people in England in hospital with Covid who are not known to have underlying health conditions. Scotland has less than 5 who fall into that category. We have 12 Million people now on the NHS waiting list needing treatment. In Feb 2020 there were only 1,400 people who had been waiting over a year for treatment. " And what is stopping the nhs from processing the backlog? It's not that the nhs is only able to do one thing or the other. Is it? | |||
"ONS data now shows more than 90% immunity in the UK. In vulnerable age groups it is close to 100% https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveyantibodyandvaccinationdatafortheuk/21july2021 What do you mean by immunity? Unable to be infected? So over 90 percent can't catch it...? Yet infection rates are going through the roof. Something doesn't add up. As pointed out earlier I misused the term immunity . High infection rates do not now equate to high rates of hospitalisation and death " Ah OK. A Very different thing. I wonder how much of the change is down to it being summer and outside living and lower viral loads compared to inside living and winter. Let's hope. | |||
"ONS data now shows more than 90% immunity in the UK. In vulnerable age groups it is close to 100% https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveyantibodyandvaccinationdatafortheuk/21july2021 What do you mean by immunity? Unable to be infected? So over 90 percent can't catch it...? Yet infection rates are going through the roof. Something doesn't add up. As pointed out earlier I misused the term immunity . High infection rates do not now equate to high rates of hospitalisation and death Ah OK. A Very different thing. I wonder how much of the change is down to it being summer and outside living and lower viral loads compared to inside living and winter. Let's hope. " It's also becoming very clear that hospitalisations and deaths are not the only medium or long term problems caused by Covid infections, and yet we continue to carry on, seeming to ignore them. | |||
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"Fear and scaring people. As most of sage group is made up of behavioral insights people.. Including Chris Whitty. How long are you prepared to live in FEAR. " I'm happy making my own evaluation and trusting my own judgement, thank you. | |||
"A very high presence of antibodies within the population is the aim. The higher the presence, the lower the rate of hospitalisation for those who do become infected. The percentage of hospitalisations to infections is currently at 2.5% and reducing the more natural and vaccine immunity increases. England currently has 702 people in hospital who have tested positive for the virus. That is out of a population of 56 Million people. Scotland has a total of 74 people in hospital who have tested positive for Covid. Out of a population of 6 Million people. There are only 14 people in England in hospital with Covid who are not known to have underlying health conditions. Scotland has less than 5 who fall into that category. We have 12 Million people now on the NHS waiting list needing treatment. In Feb 2020 there were only 1,400 people who had been waiting over a year for treatment. " Weird. The government thinks that there are 5,001 with 699 on ventilation. There are 3193 ICU beds in total. https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare What happens if those people on waiting lists are in hospital and are I fected with Covid? | |||
"Fear and scaring people. As most of sage group is made up of behavioral insights people.. Including Chris Whitty. How long are you prepared to live in FEAR. " Fear of your own serious illness or death and those of others? That is the definition of mortal danger. You are serious mocking peoe for being concerned about that? If you are in a situation where the risk is higher, as now, you take more care. You can choose to dive into the deep end of a pool or the shallow end. One option is more sensible. Does the other option means that you are "not scared"? | |||
"ONS data now shows more than 90% immunity in the UK. In vulnerable age groups it is close to 100% https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveyantibodyandvaccinationdatafortheuk/21july2021 What do you mean by immunity? Unable to be infected? So over 90 percent can't catch it...? Yet infection rates are going through the roof. Something doesn't add up. As pointed out earlier I misused the term immunity . High infection rates do not now equate to high rates of hospitalisation and death " A smaller proportion of a bigger number is still a big number. That is clear, right? | |||
"I am really surprised at some of the posts on this thread at this point in a global pandemic. Between assertions that it is not serious to vaccinaction providing immunity to accusing people being cautious of doing so out of fear and ignorance it's as if people just don't want to know. We seem to have got to the point where people get impatient at a junction and at someplint just pull out dangerously. If the government want to gamble with herd immunity then it should have the courtesy of telling us." I completely agree. I am chuffed off at being lied to by the government. They should be serving us ( they are public servants after all) not themselves and their political career | |||
" Waiting until everyone has had the second vaccine takes us into autumn. Things will be fucked again all winter by then. So the gamble is the quicker route to better immunity in the young, and stress test vaccine immunity in the old, while hospitals are not crammed full of people with winter-related illnesses. Anyone over 40 has had time to get both vaccines. You snooze, you lose. " So let me get this straight: 1. Covid vaccines cannot possibly be safe because they haven't been around for ten years, and it's impossible to know whether there could be someone has a funny turn three generations down the line, despite these vaccines being the most studied medical treatment in the history of mankind, so this is a totally unacceptable risk. 2. It's a perfectly acceptable "gamble" to dump all protective measures and expose millions of adults and children to a virus that we absolutely know will kill some of them, cripple many more, and cause lasting neurological problems in lots of them, effects that have all been proven by medical studies all over the world (and in the case of deaths, by counting the body bags), a gamble that the majority of the medical community have stated is totally unethical experimentation on a population that have been given no choice about the matter. And this gamble is perfectly fine because it's inconvenient to have to wear masks on public transport and in supermarkets through the summer. I can have sympathy with the view that vaccines might seem a bit scary, especially when there has been a massive campaign of misinformation by grifters that seek to sell their alternative snake oil remedies. I can however have no sympathy with any person that simultaneously says "I refuse to do anything for the protection of others" and "I want millions of people to be infected with a dangerous disease, to get it out of the way and make THEM develop herd immunity for MY benefit". That attitude is totally repulsive and vile. If YOU want other people to be exposed to covid for your convenience, could I suggest that you first go down to your local covid ward and spend a few days there unmasked picking up a really strong dose of the virus yourself. Every single person espousing herd immunity through exposure - go stand at the front of the queue, get a shot of pure covid virus, take your granny, take your children. It's a "gamble", but hey, you like a gamble. | |||
"ONS data now shows more than 90% immunity in the UK. In vulnerable age groups it is close to 100% https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveyantibodyandvaccinationdatafortheuk/21july2021 What do you mean by immunity? Unable to be infected? So over 90 percent can't catch it...? Yet infection rates are going through the roof. Something doesn't add up. As pointed out earlier I misused the term immunity . High infection rates do not now equate to high rates of hospitalisation and death A smaller proportion of a bigger number is still a big number. That is clear, right?" ... and how many times bigger would that number need to be before the smaller portion would be greater than a larger portion of an even bigger number? the context - peak infections in January and rate of hospitalisations compared with current peak infections and the current rate of hospitalisations. | |||
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"I am really surprised at some of the posts on this thread at this point in a global pandemic. Between assertions that it is not serious to vaccinaction providing immunity to accusing people being cautious of doing so out of fear and ignorance it's as if people just don't want to know. We seem to have got to the point where people get impatient at a junction and at someplint just pull out dangerously. If the government want to gamble with herd immunity then it should have the courtesy of telling us. I completely agree. I am chuffed off at being lied to by the government. They should be serving us ( they are public servants after all) not themselves and their political career " Whilst there are many things I can pick the government up on, I don't get this issue of people thinking this has been done covertly. It was widely advertised for June, then delayed to July and was publicly announced in TV press conferences and in Parliament. The fact that some people are blind to these announcements, seems to indicate a lack of interest in social and civic life. Are people expecting the PM, to individually knock on every door and explain at length. All the information about the releasing of restrictions is out there on gov.uk and questions about it were put to the politicians and scientists and were answered. There is no silver bullet and there is no golden moment for removing of restrictions. The vaccine is as wide spread as it can be and every adult has had the choice. You can literally go on line now and book a jab for tomorrow. Some seem to think this disease can be eradicated, it can't so you have to pick a time that is least risky. Its never going to be a no risk decision what ever is decided. | |||
"I am really surprised at some of the posts on this thread at this point in a global pandemic. Between assertions that it is not serious to vaccinaction providing immunity to accusing people being cautious of doing so out of fear and ignorance it's as if people just don't want to know. We seem to have got to the point where people get impatient at a junction and at someplint just pull out dangerously. If the government want to gamble with herd immunity then it should have the courtesy of telling us. I completely agree. I am chuffed off at being lied to by the government. They should be serving us ( they are public servants after all) not themselves and their political career Whilst there are many things I can pick the government up on, I don't get this issue of people thinking this has been done covertly. It was widely advertised for June, then delayed to July and was publicly announced in TV press conferences and in Parliament. The fact that some people are blind to these announcements, seems to indicate a lack of interest in social and civic life. Are people expecting the PM, to individually knock on every door and explain at length. All the information about the releasing of restrictions is out there on gov.uk and questions about it were put to the politicians and scientists and were answered. There is no silver bullet and there is no golden moment for removing of restrictions. The vaccine is as wide spread as it can be and every adult has had the choice. You can literally go on line now and book a jab for tomorrow. Some seem to think this disease can be eradicated, it can't so you have to pick a time that is least risky. Its never going to be a no risk decision what ever is decided. " Maybe after all adults have had a chance to be fully vaccinated. Rather than this halfway house which is apparently a breeding ground for vaccine evasion. Which is why the world looks on in horror. | |||
"I am really surprised at some of the posts on this thread at this point in a global pandemic. Between assertions that it is not serious to vaccinaction providing immunity to accusing people being cautious of doing so out of fear and ignorance it's as if people just don't want to know. We seem to have got to the point where people get impatient at a junction and at someplint just pull out dangerously. If the government want to gamble with herd immunity then it should have the courtesy of telling us. I completely agree. I am chuffed off at being lied to by the government. They should be serving us ( they are public servants after all) not themselves and their political career Whilst there are many things I can pick the government up on, I don't get this issue of people thinking this has been done covertly. It was widely advertised for June, then delayed to July and was publicly announced in TV press conferences and in Parliament. The fact that some people are blind to these announcements, seems to indicate a lack of interest in social and civic life. Are people expecting the PM, to individually knock on every door and explain at length. All the information about the releasing of restrictions is out there on gov.uk and questions about it were put to the politicians and scientists and were answered. There is no silver bullet and there is no golden moment for removing of restrictions. The vaccine is as wide spread as it can be and every adult has had the choice. You can literally go on line now and book a jab for tomorrow. Some seem to think this disease can be eradicated, it can't so you have to pick a time that is least risky. Its never going to be a no risk decision what ever is decided. " It's not being called a herd immunity strategy is it? The only effect of removing all mask wearing regulations is to increase spread. There is no economic benefit at all. Track and trace is pretty much being switched off for a swathe of jobs. It is being made our responsibility. Just like last time. There is no vaccine status checking of peoe entering the UK, again I creasing the chance of spread. It is covert because there appears to be an attempt to maximise spread and no explicit acknowledgement of that fact. | |||
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"ONS data now shows more than 90% immunity in the UK. In vulnerable age groups it is close to 100% https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveyantibodyandvaccinationdatafortheuk/21july2021 What do you mean by immunity? Unable to be infected? So over 90 percent can't catch it...? Yet infection rates are going through the roof. Something doesn't add up. As pointed out earlier I misused the term immunity . High infection rates do not now equate to high rates of hospitalisation and death A smaller proportion of a bigger number is still a big number. That is clear, right? ... and how many times bigger would that number need to be before the smaller portion would be greater than a larger portion of an even bigger number? the context - peak infections in January and rate of hospitalisations compared with current peak infections and the current rate of hospitalisations." I don't know, but we are finding out very quickly aren't we? We may be fine, but is an uncalculated, highly political gamble. Lots of people very happy to gamble with other people's health, as nobody ever believes that it will effect them or those they care about... | |||
" Waiting until everyone has had the second vaccine takes us into autumn. Things will be fucked again all winter by then. So the gamble is the quicker route to better immunity in the young, and stress test vaccine immunity in the old, while hospitals are not crammed full of people with winter-related illnesses. Anyone over 40 has had time to get both vaccines. You snooze, you lose. So let me get this straight: 1. Covid vaccines cannot possibly be safe because they haven't been around for ten years, and it's impossible to know whether there could be someone has a funny turn three generations down the line, despite these vaccines being the most studied medical treatment in the history of mankind, so this is a totally unacceptable risk. 2. It's a perfectly acceptable "gamble" to dump all protective measures and expose millions of adults and children to a virus that we absolutely know will kill some of them, cripple many more, and cause lasting neurological problems in lots of them, effects that have all been proven by medical studies all over the world (and in the case of deaths, by counting the body bags), a gamble that the majority of the medical community have stated is totally unethical experimentation on a population that have been given no choice about the matter. And this gamble is perfectly fine because it's inconvenient to have to wear masks on public transport and in supermarkets through the summer. I can have sympathy with the view that vaccines might seem a bit scary, especially when there has been a massive campaign of misinformation by grifters that seek to sell their alternative snake oil remedies. I can however have no sympathy with any person that simultaneously says "I refuse to do anything for the protection of others" and "I want millions of people to be infected with a dangerous disease, to get it out of the way and make THEM develop herd immunity for MY benefit". That attitude is totally repulsive and vile. If YOU want other people to be exposed to covid for your convenience, could I suggest that you first go down to your local covid ward and spend a few days there unmasked picking up a really strong dose of the virus yourself. Every single person espousing herd immunity through exposure - go stand at the front of the queue, get a shot of pure covid virus, take your granny, take your children. It's a "gamble", but hey, you like a gamble. " Had it already, thanks Shouldn't think I'll catch it again for a good few years Not so confident about you lot who are taking the vaccine route but that's the gamble, again, isn't it. There might be a better vaccine later on. Then again, it might mutate to a more dangerous form, as it has already done with delta variant. As for kids and vaccines - that really is a difficult choice for parents. All of life really. Choices and risk. | |||
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"ONS data now shows more than 90% immunity in the UK. In vulnerable age groups it is close to 100% https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveyantibodyandvaccinationdatafortheuk/21july2021 What do you mean by immunity? Unable to be infected? So over 90 percent can't catch it...? Yet infection rates are going through the roof. Something doesn't add up. As pointed out earlier I misused the term immunity . High infection rates do not now equate to high rates of hospitalisation and death A smaller proportion of a bigger number is still a big number. That is clear, right? ... and how many times bigger would that number need to be before the smaller portion would be greater than a larger portion of an even bigger number? the context - peak infections in January and rate of hospitalisations compared with current peak infections and the current rate of hospitalisations. I don't know, but we are finding out very quickly aren't we? We may be fine, but is an uncalculated, highly political gamble. Lots of people very happy to gamble with other people's health, as nobody ever believes that it will effect them or those they care about..." As I've just said on a new thread, every person volunteering others for mass exposure to covid, should first go get themselves and their family infected. If they want others to become immune through becoming ill, then let them lead by example. | |||
"ONS data now shows more than 90% immunity in the UK. In vulnerable age groups it is close to 100% https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveyantibodyandvaccinationdatafortheuk/21july2021 What do you mean by immunity? Unable to be infected? So over 90 percent can't catch it...? Yet infection rates are going through the roof. Something doesn't add up. As pointed out earlier I misused the term immunity . High infection rates do not now equate to high rates of hospitalisation and death A smaller proportion of a bigger number is still a big number. That is clear, right? ... and how many times bigger would that number need to be before the smaller portion would be greater than a larger portion of an even bigger number? the context - peak infections in January and rate of hospitalisations compared with current peak infections and the current rate of hospitalisations. I don't know, but we are finding out very quickly aren't we? We may be fine, but is an uncalculated, highly political gamble. Lots of people very happy to gamble with other people's health, as nobody ever believes that it will effect them or those they care about..." I've heard that there was a huge jump in Parkinson's in the years following the 1918 pandemic. I know they're very different diseases, but I read this morning that a marker for Parkinson's has been seen in people recovering from Covid. Plus ongoing cognitive decline in some, and other things. I don't wish that on anyone, let alone endorse a policy where it's virtually inevitable for a large group of people. | |||
"A very high presence of antibodies within the population is the aim. The higher the presence, the lower the rate of hospitalisation for those who do become infected. The percentage of hospitalisations to infections is currently at 2.5% and reducing the more natural and vaccine immunity increases. England currently has 702 people in hospital who have tested positive for the virus. That is out of a population of 56 Million people. " That is a daily amount | |||
"A very high presence of antibodies within the population is the aim. The higher the presence, the lower the rate of hospitalisation for those who do become infected. The percentage of hospitalisations to infections is currently at 2.5% and reducing the more natural and vaccine immunity increases. England currently has 702 people in hospital who have tested positive for the virus. That is out of a population of 56 Million people. That is a daily amount " I thought that was a bit low | |||
"A very high presence of antibodies within the population is the aim. The higher the presence, the lower the rate of hospitalisation for those who do become infected. The percentage of hospitalisations to infections is currently at 2.5% and reducing the more natural and vaccine immunity increases. England currently has 702 people in hospital who have tested positive for the virus. That is out of a population of 56 Million people. That is a daily amount " That is a daily amount https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare | |||
"Fear and scaring people. As most of sage group is made up of behavioral insights people.. Including Chris Whitty. How long are you prepared to live in FEAR. " Why do you make the huge assumption that people are living in (capital letters ) Fear? Because they don't agree with letting the disease just roll through the population? | |||
"ONS data now shows more than 90% immunity in the UK. In vulnerable age groups it is close to 100% https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveyantibodyandvaccinationdatafortheuk/21july2021 What do you mean by immunity? Unable to be infected? So over 90 percent can't catch it...? Yet infection rates are going through the roof. Something doesn't add up. As pointed out earlier I misused the term immunity . High infection rates do not now equate to high rates of hospitalisation and death A smaller proportion of a bigger number is still a big number. That is clear, right? ... and how many times bigger would that number need to be before the smaller portion would be greater than a larger portion of an even bigger number? the context - peak infections in January and rate of hospitalisations compared with current peak infections and the current rate of hospitalisations. I don't know, but we are finding out very quickly aren't we? We may be fine, but is an uncalculated, highly political gamble. Lots of people very happy to gamble with other people's health, as nobody ever believes that it will effect them or those they care about... As I've just said on a new thread, every person volunteering others for mass exposure to covid, should first go get themselves and their family infected. If they want others to become immune through becoming ill, then let them lead by example." This makes no sense, the vaccine is out there and free to all. People not taking the offer are putting themselves and others at risk. Yet you seem to be blaming those who have done everything to protect society by wearing masks, isolating and getting jabbed. Now you are saying after all that it was pointless as until 100% of people get jabbed we can't move forwards and anyone doing so is a killer. Seems to totally abdicate responsibility from those not taking and personal responsibility to be jabbed instead choosing to blame society for their inaction. | |||
"I am really surprised at some of the posts on this thread at this point in a global pandemic. Between assertions that it is not serious to vaccinaction providing immunity to accusing people being cautious of doing so out of fear and ignorance it's as if people just don't want to know. We seem to have got to the point where people get impatient at a junction and at someplint just pull out dangerously. If the government want to gamble with herd immunity then it should have the courtesy of telling us. I completely agree. I am chuffed off at being lied to by the government. They should be serving us ( they are public servants after all) not themselves and their political career Whilst there are many things I can pick the government up on, I don't get this issue of people thinking this has been done covertly. It was widely advertised for June, then delayed to July and was publicly announced in TV press conferences and in Parliament. The fact that some people are blind to these announcements, seems to indicate a lack of interest in social and civic life. Are people expecting the PM, to individually knock on every door and explain at length. All the information about the releasing of restrictions is out there on gov.uk and questions about it were put to the politicians and scientists and were answered. There is no silver bullet and there is no golden moment for removing of restrictions. The vaccine is as wide spread as it can be and every adult has had the choice. You can literally go on line now and book a jab for tomorrow. Some seem to think this disease can be eradicated, it can't so you have to pick a time that is least risky. Its never going to be a no risk decision what ever is decided. " I'm not sure people.. (OK I can only talk for myself) have an issue so much with releasing restrictions. The issue has been that for 16 months the mantra has been stop the spread save lives... (or variations of that theme)... We had to tolerate huge behavioural modifications to stop the spread and save lives. Society was hugely divided by the messages and laws and police invasions... Locking up students for having parties and so on.. To stop the infections and save lives. And then a switch is flicked and the exact opposite is the message... Infect as many as you can before winter save lives. See how many we can suddenly cram into stadia to save lives.. And nobody has stood up and explained apart from the banality of "if not now... Then when". Nobody has explained that we are choosing to ignore long covid because our vaccine strategy is flawed and can't reach all the people we need it to reach. | |||
"I am really surprised at some of the posts on this thread at this point in a global pandemic. Between assertions that it is not serious to vaccinaction providing immunity to accusing people being cautious of doing so out of fear and ignorance it's as if people just don't want to know. We seem to have got to the point where people get impatient at a junction and at someplint just pull out dangerously. If the government want to gamble with herd immunity then it should have the courtesy of telling us. I completely agree. I am chuffed off at being lied to by the government. They should be serving us ( they are public servants after all) not themselves and their political career Whilst there are many things I can pick the government up on, I don't get this issue of people thinking this has been done covertly. It was widely advertised for June, then delayed to July and was publicly announced in TV press conferences and in Parliament. The fact that some people are blind to these announcements, seems to indicate a lack of interest in social and civic life. Are people expecting the PM, to individually knock on every door and explain at length. All the information about the releasing of restrictions is out there on gov.uk and questions about it were put to the politicians and scientists and were answered. There is no silver bullet and there is no golden moment for removing of restrictions. The vaccine is as wide spread as it can be and every adult has had the choice. You can literally go on line now and book a jab for tomorrow. Some seem to think this disease can be eradicated, it can't so you have to pick a time that is least risky. Its never going to be a no risk decision what ever is decided. It's not being called a herd immunity strategy is it? The only effect of removing all mask wearing regulations is to increase spread. There is no economic benefit at all. Track and trace is pretty much being switched off for a swathe of jobs. It is being made our responsibility. Just like last time. There is no vaccine status checking of peoe entering the UK, again I creasing the chance of spread. It is covert because there appears to be an attempt to maximise spread and no explicit acknowledgement of that fact." | |||
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"I am really surprised at some of the posts on this thread at this point in a global pandemic. Between assertions that it is not serious to vaccinaction providing immunity to accusing people being cautious of doing so out of fear and ignorance it's as if people just don't want to know. We seem to have got to the point where people get impatient at a junction and at someplint just pull out dangerously. If the government want to gamble with herd immunity then it should have the courtesy of telling us. I completely agree. I am chuffed off at being lied to by the government. They should be serving us ( they are public servants after all) not themselves and their political career Whilst there are many things I can pick the government up on, I don't get this issue of people thinking this has been done covertly. It was widely advertised for June, then delayed to July and was publicly announced in TV press conferences and in Parliament. The fact that some people are blind to these announcements, seems to indicate a lack of interest in social and civic life. Are people expecting the PM, to individually knock on every door and explain at length. All the information about the releasing of restrictions is out there on gov.uk and questions about it were put to the politicians and scientists and were answered. There is no silver bullet and there is no golden moment for removing of restrictions. The vaccine is as wide spread as it can be and every adult has had the choice. You can literally go on line now and book a jab for tomorrow. Some seem to think this disease can be eradicated, it can't so you have to pick a time that is least risky. Its never going to be a no risk decision what ever is decided. I'm not sure people.. (OK I can only talk for myself) have an issue so much with releasing restrictions. The issue has been that for 16 months the mantra has been stop the spread save lives... (or variations of that theme)... We had to tolerate huge behavioural modifications to stop the spread and save lives. Society was hugely divided by the messages and laws and police invasions... Locking up students for having parties and so on.. To stop the infections and save lives. And then a switch is flicked and the exact opposite is the message... Infect as many as you can before winter save lives. See how many we can suddenly cram into stadia to save lives.. And nobody has stood up and explained apart from the banality of "if not now... Then when". Nobody has explained that we are choosing to ignore long covid because our vaccine strategy is flawed and can't reach all the people we need it to reach. " Spot on | |||
"I think the narrative at the beginning was wrong, they obviously didn't know the full extent of the Virus ( or if they did they didn't say ) and said it will only affect the old so it gave the youngsters a sense of it won't get me. It does and especially now. The amount of real youngsters getting it ( schoolchildren ) is even more worrying, on two days last week over a hundred schoolchildren had to be admitted to hospital with Covid. You are not immune from it , you may get it bad, you may be left with other conditions if you do get it or die if you are really unlucky and that is whether you have underlying health conditions or not. If you are over 18 and wanted the vaccine, you are not all going to get it until September at the earliest so after youngsters doing what we all did and stayed at home to help fellow human beings, you are now an experiment. I think you have been treated appallingly. As a footnote, having underlying health conditions should not be passed off as " they would have died anyway" Lots of people live with health conditions for many many years, most health conditions are not always terminal" I developed an underlying health condition at 13 and live with it very easily. Assuming I keep taking my pills, it has no other effect on my life. My great grandmother died with (not of) it at 91, and my grandmother is 92 and is in good health with it. | |||
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"I am really surprised at some of the posts on this thread at this point in a global pandemic. Between assertions that it is not serious to vaccinaction providing immunity to accusing people being cautious of doing so out of fear and ignorance it's as if people just don't want to know. We seem to have got to the point where people get impatient at a junction and at someplint just pull out dangerously. If the government want to gamble with herd immunity then it should have the courtesy of telling us. I completely agree. I am chuffed off at being lied to by the government. They should be serving us ( they are public servants after all) not themselves and their political career Whilst there are many things I can pick the government up on, I don't get this issue of people thinking this has been done covertly. It was widely advertised for June, then delayed to July and was publicly announced in TV press conferences and in Parliament. The fact that some people are blind to these announcements, seems to indicate a lack of interest in social and civic life. Are people expecting the PM, to individually knock on every door and explain at length. All the information about the releasing of restrictions is out there on gov.uk and questions about it were put to the politicians and scientists and were answered. There is no silver bullet and there is no golden moment for removing of restrictions. The vaccine is as wide spread as it can be and every adult has had the choice. You can literally go on line now and book a jab for tomorrow. Some seem to think this disease can be eradicated, it can't so you have to pick a time that is least risky. Its never going to be a no risk decision what ever is decided. I'm not sure people.. (OK I can only talk for myself) have an issue so much with releasing restrictions. The issue has been that for 16 months the mantra has been stop the spread save lives... (or variations of that theme)... We had to tolerate huge behavioural modifications to stop the spread and save lives. Society was hugely divided by the messages and laws and police invasions... Locking up students for having parties and so on.. To stop the infections and save lives. And then a switch is flicked and the exact opposite is the message... Infect as many as you can before winter save lives. See how many we can suddenly cram into stadia to save lives.. And nobody has stood up and explained apart from the banality of "if not now... Then when". Nobody has explained that we are choosing to ignore long covid because our vaccine strategy is flawed and can't reach all the people we need it to reach. " It is the same strategy that we use every year for flu. I find it strange that we let 10's of thousands of people die of flu with no restrictions at all and no mass vaccination programme. Yet with a mass vaccination programme (which I believe in and will lead to better outcomes than flu) there is no acceptable level of disease that people can hold up as something we have to live with. I think the difference is its easy to say its too early, it's much harder to put your flag in the sand and say when it would be acceptable in the knowledge that it will still mean someone dies and some will be very very sick. | |||
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"I think the narrative at the beginning was wrong, they obviously didn't know the full extent of the Virus ( or if they did they didn't say ) and said it will only affect the old so it gave the youngsters a sense of it won't get me. It does and especially now. The amount of real youngsters getting it ( schoolchildren ) is even more worrying, on two days last week over a hundred schoolchildren had to be admitted to hospital with Covid. You are not immune from it , you may get it bad, you may be left with other conditions if you do get it or die if you are really unlucky and that is whether you have underlying health conditions or not. If you are over 18 and wanted the vaccine, you are not all going to get it until September at the earliest so after youngsters doing what we all did and stayed at home to help fellow human beings, you are now an experiment. I think you have been treated appallingly. As a footnote, having underlying health conditions should not be passed off as " they would have died anyway" Lots of people live with health conditions for many many years, most health conditions are not always terminal" Well said. I feel the youngsters are being taken for fools. It's disgusting. | |||
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"I am really surprised at some of the posts on this thread at this point in a global pandemic. Between assertions that it is not serious to vaccinaction providing immunity to accusing people being cautious of doing so out of fear and ignorance it's as if people just don't want to know. We seem to have got to the point where people get impatient at a junction and at someplint just pull out dangerously. If the government want to gamble with herd immunity then it should have the courtesy of telling us. I completely agree. I am chuffed off at being lied to by the government. They should be serving us ( they are public servants after all) not themselves and their political career Whilst there are many things I can pick the government up on, I don't get this issue of people thinking this has been done covertly. It was widely advertised for June, then delayed to July and was publicly announced in TV press conferences and in Parliament. The fact that some people are blind to these announcements, seems to indicate a lack of interest in social and civic life. Are people expecting the PM, to individually knock on every door and explain at length. All the information about the releasing of restrictions is out there on gov.uk and questions about it were put to the politicians and scientists and were answered. There is no silver bullet and there is no golden moment for removing of restrictions. The vaccine is as wide spread as it can be and every adult has had the choice. You can literally go on line now and book a jab for tomorrow. Some seem to think this disease can be eradicated, it can't so you have to pick a time that is least risky. Its never going to be a no risk decision what ever is decided. I'm not sure people.. (OK I can only talk for myself) have an issue so much with releasing restrictions. The issue has been that for 16 months the mantra has been stop the spread save lives... (or variations of that theme)... We had to tolerate huge behavioural modifications to stop the spread and save lives. Society was hugely divided by the messages and laws and police invasions... Locking up students for having parties and so on.. To stop the infections and save lives. And then a switch is flicked and the exact opposite is the message... Infect as many as you can before winter save lives. See how many we can suddenly cram into stadia to save lives.. And nobody has stood up and explained apart from the banality of "if not now... Then when". Nobody has explained that we are choosing to ignore long covid because our vaccine strategy is flawed and can't reach all the people we need it to reach. It is the same strategy that we use every year for flu. I find it strange that we let 10's of thousands of people die of flu with no restrictions at all and no mass vaccination programme. Yet with a mass vaccination programme (which I believe in and will lead to better outcomes than flu) there is no acceptable level of disease that people can hold up as something we have to live with. I think the difference is its easy to say its too early, it's much harder to put your flag in the sand and say when it would be acceptable in the knowledge that it will still mean someone dies and some will be very very sick. " I can stick a flag in the sand. To start with let the over 18s.. Who have only had access to vaccines for a month or so... Have time to all get vaccinated and then have their second jab after 8 weeks. Before exposing them to a disease that they have been locked up for 18 months infects them. | |||
"I am really surprised at some of the posts on this thread at this point in a global pandemic. Between assertions that it is not serious to vaccinaction providing immunity to accusing people being cautious of doing so out of fear and ignorance it's as if people just don't want to know. We seem to have got to the point where people get impatient at a junction and at someplint just pull out dangerously. If the government want to gamble with herd immunity then it should have the courtesy of telling us. I completely agree. I am chuffed off at being lied to by the government. They should be serving us ( they are public servants after all) not themselves and their political career Whilst there are many things I can pick the government up on, I don't get this issue of people thinking this has been done covertly. It was widely advertised for June, then delayed to July and was publicly announced in TV press conferences and in Parliament. The fact that some people are blind to these announcements, seems to indicate a lack of interest in social and civic life. Are people expecting the PM, to individually knock on every door and explain at length. All the information about the releasing of restrictions is out there on gov.uk and questions about it were put to the politicians and scientists and were answered. There is no silver bullet and there is no golden moment for removing of restrictions. The vaccine is as wide spread as it can be and every adult has had the choice. You can literally go on line now and book a jab for tomorrow. Some seem to think this disease can be eradicated, it can't so you have to pick a time that is least risky. Its never going to be a no risk decision what ever is decided. I'm not sure people.. (OK I can only talk for myself) have an issue so much with releasing restrictions. The issue has been that for 16 months the mantra has been stop the spread save lives... (or variations of that theme)... We had to tolerate huge behavioural modifications to stop the spread and save lives. Society was hugely divided by the messages and laws and police invasions... Locking up students for having parties and so on.. To stop the infections and save lives. And then a switch is flicked and the exact opposite is the message... Infect as many as you can before winter save lives. See how many we can suddenly cram into stadia to save lives.. And nobody has stood up and explained apart from the banality of "if not now... Then when". Nobody has explained that we are choosing to ignore long covid because our vaccine strategy is flawed and can't reach all the people we need it to reach. It is the same strategy that we use every year for flu. I find it strange that we let 10's of thousands of people die of flu with no restrictions at all and no mass vaccination programme. Yet with a mass vaccination programme (which I believe in and will lead to better outcomes than flu) there is no acceptable level of disease that people can hold up as something we have to live with. I think the difference is its easy to say its too early, it's much harder to put your flag in the sand and say when it would be acceptable in the knowledge that it will still mean someone dies and some will be very very sick. " A typical flu year kills around 5 or 6000, a good flu year around 1 to 2000, which is not ideal but as a society we can live with it. If we get a bad flu year where the vaccine isn't as effective that year we see 20 thousand plus. I don't think as a society or even the nhs could cope with 20000 thousand covid deaths year on year. You do ask a valid question though because we are never going to get zero deaths. | |||
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"Tomorrow will be a better day. We will be just fine. "I'll believe it when I see it. | |||
"Covid is not Flu" Correct and measles ain't mumps, cats aint dogs and weasels are not goats. I could go on. | |||
"Covid is not Flu Correct and measles ain't mumps, cats aint dogs and weasels are not goats. I could go on. " Probably take a while to mention everything in the world that is different to something else...but I think you know the point I was making about it not being a good comparison as it isn't the same thing | |||
"I am really surprised at some of the posts on this thread at this point in a global pandemic. Between assertions that it is not serious to vaccinaction providing immunity to accusing people being cautious of doing so out of fear and ignorance it's as if people just don't want to know. We seem to have got to the point where people get impatient at a junction and at someplint just pull out dangerously. If the government want to gamble with herd immunity then it should have the courtesy of telling us. I completely agree. I am chuffed off at being lied to by the government. They should be serving us ( they are public servants after all) not themselves and their political career Whilst there are many things I can pick the government up on, I don't get this issue of people thinking this has been done covertly. It was widely advertised for June, then delayed to July and was publicly announced in TV press conferences and in Parliament. The fact that some people are blind to these announcements, seems to indicate a lack of interest in social and civic life. Are people expecting the PM, to individually knock on every door and explain at length. All the information about the releasing of restrictions is out there on gov.uk and questions about it were put to the politicians and scientists and were answered. There is no silver bullet and there is no golden moment for removing of restrictions. The vaccine is as wide spread as it can be and every adult has had the choice. You can literally go on line now and book a jab for tomorrow. Some seem to think this disease can be eradicated, it can't so you have to pick a time that is least risky. Its never going to be a no risk decision what ever is decided. I'm not sure people.. (OK I can only talk for myself) have an issue so much with releasing restrictions. The issue has been that for 16 months the mantra has been stop the spread save lives... (or variations of that theme)... We had to tolerate huge behavioural modifications to stop the spread and save lives. Society was hugely divided by the messages and laws and police invasions... Locking up students for having parties and so on.. To stop the infections and save lives. And then a switch is flicked and the exact opposite is the message... Infect as many as you can before winter save lives. See how many we can suddenly cram into stadia to save lives.. And nobody has stood up and explained apart from the banality of "if not now... Then when". Nobody has explained that we are choosing to ignore long covid because our vaccine strategy is flawed and can't reach all the people we need it to reach. It is the same strategy that we use every year for flu. I find it strange that we let 10's of thousands of people die of flu with no restrictions at all and no mass vaccination programme. Yet with a mass vaccination programme (which I believe in and will lead to better outcomes than flu) there is no acceptable level of disease that people can hold up as something we have to live with. I think the difference is its easy to say its too early, it's much harder to put your flag in the sand and say when it would be acceptable in the knowledge that it will still mean someone dies and some will be very very sick. I can stick a flag in the sand. To start with let the over 18s.. Who have only had access to vaccines for a month or so... Have time to all get vaccinated and then have their second jab after 8 weeks. Before exposing them to a disease that they have been locked up for 18 months infects them. " Super no issues with that at least you have a fixed point to work from so the 18th of June was the date it was available to all. So 13th of August would be the date that second vaccines are open to all. Give say 2 week lag to allow people to get it done. So you would have opened up in say mid September? No issues with that and at least it has some logic behind it, but even at that date the virus would still run free, but at least you can be realistic that it is not a risk free choice when ever we do it. | |||
"Covid is not Flu Correct and measles ain't mumps, cats aint dogs and weasels are not goats. I could go on. Probably take a while to mention everything in the world that is different to something else...but I think you know the point I was making about it not being a good comparison as it isn't the same thing" But I was not comparing the diseases I was comparing societies acceptance of risk. I could have picked road deaths or some other disease. In the end as a society we accept that we can't eliminate risk and death. So there comes a point when you have to say if we would allow more risk and death in one scenario, why would we not in another. | |||
"Covid in general is dangerous to the old and those with underlying health problems in , the average age of death from Covid is 82.4 and the average life expectancy in U.K. is 81 , most of those who are at risk off dying have been double jabbed " Nearly half of those hospitalised in the current wave of infection are double jabbed. That hints that the vaccine has lost effectiveness, or is less effective with the delta variant (it is). Of course, the vaccine may well have led to antibodies being produced, but those infected are unable to produce the T cells needed (another fact). There is the other problem with letting it rip: The eventual, almost inevitable, mutations that the virus will advance into. Another feature of this virus is its ability to evade the innate immune system responses. If a new variants evolves that is more effective at evading the innate system, the young will also have more problems. I’ll remind you that most scientists don’t regard global-warming or a rapidly-ageing population as the most likely cause of human extinction, they do regard a virus as being one though. | |||
"Covid is not Flu Correct and measles ain't mumps, cats aint dogs and weasels are not goats. I could go on. Probably take a while to mention everything in the world that is different to something else...but I think you know the point I was making about it not being a good comparison as it isn't the same thing But I was not comparing the diseases I was comparing societies acceptance of risk. I could have picked road deaths or some other disease. In the end as a society we accept that we can't eliminate risk and death. So there comes a point when you have to say if we would allow more risk and death in one scenario, why would we not in another. " Because if by what they have said all along that if we had let this go through the country without any mitigation the death rate would trump any disease or accident I am guessing they will have a number of what they think is an " acceptable" death rate. I personally don't think the one they are expecting of 200 a day is acceptable. Eventually we will get to some people every year will probably die of Covid but hopefully more in line with other risks | |||
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"I ha e had this impression ever since the announcement that all restrictions would be lifted and then changing travel international travel restrictions and no longer checking arrivals. Nog just me it seems. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/23/ministers-letting-young-people-catch-covid-to-prepare-for-winter-sage-adviser-claims" Question.. How do you get herd immunity? Answer by exposure and infection taking place... Issue - there are multiple variants. This means you need to be infected by each variant to acquire herd immunity. The vaccine protects to the majority of the population to the different vaiants so far. Issue - How long does herd immunity last? Answer currently we don't know. SARs, MERS and Covid 2 when experimented with monkeys demonstrated a reduction in antibodies as little as 3 weeks post initial recovery. Additionally at ths time we still dont even know how long the vaccine lasts for either, however it certainly lasts longer the antibodies in the experiments. | |||
"I ha e had this impression ever since the announcement that all restrictions would be lifted and then changing travel international travel restrictions and no longer checking arrivals. Nog just me it seems. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/23/ministers-letting-young-people-catch-covid-to-prepare-for-winter-sage-adviser-claims Question.. How do you get herd immunity? Answer by exposure and infection taking place... Issue - there are multiple variants. This means you need to be infected by each variant to acquire herd immunity. The vaccine protects to the majority of the population to the different vaiants so far. Issue - How long does herd immunity last? Answer currently we don't know. SARs, MERS and Covid 2 when experimented with monkeys demonstrated a reduction in antibodies as little as 3 weeks post initial recovery. Additionally at ths time we still dont even know how long the vaccine lasts for either, however it certainly lasts longer the antibodies in the experiments. " They are still researching the duration and extent of immunity, which will help better with planning and our security. Antibodies are just 1 part of the immune system, though probably what we all know of the most. The complexity of our immune system is wonderful, such that even if available antibodies are lowered, we still carry a memory of the infection and are able to mount a response to it, including ramping up antibody production again. The UK has the conundrum of the younger adults here being due second jabs into September, whilst also being due to start flu jsbs as well as the forecast booster jsbs for the most elderly and vulnerable, from around the same time. This will give younger people whose social lives are potentially sources of increased infection levels, as well as those who are extremely vulnerable to hospitalisation and death, a more protected security, helping the NHS to better recover from its extensive backlog etc. That early autumn jab programme should initiate the delayed full immunity before our more challenging winter period. Covid passports could influence increase in the vaccines uptake at the end of summer, especially amongst younger people, including students. | |||
"A very high presence of antibodies within the population is the aim. The higher the presence, the lower the rate of hospitalisation for those who do become infected. The percentage of hospitalisations to infections is currently at 2.5% and reducing the more natural and vaccine immunity increases. England currently has 702 people in hospital who have tested positive for the virus. That is out of a population of 56 Million people. Scotland has a total of 74 people in hospital who have tested positive for Covid. Out of a population of 6 Million people. There are only 14 people in England in hospital with Covid who are not known to have underlying health conditions. Scotland has less than 5 who fall into that category. We have 12 Million people now on the NHS waiting list needing treatment. In Feb 2020 there were only 1,400 people who had been waiting over a year for treatment. " Wrong 5000 in hospital and approx on ventilator please ensure facts right before posting | |||
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