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Vaccination eradicated smallpox
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Smallpox is far less infectious than influenza, and we know SARS-CoV-2 is far MORE infectious than flu. The herd immunity required to stave off smallpox vs this virus is very, very different. Also the mechanics of spread and the nature of modern mass transportation, very densely populated areas etc etc make it very much more difficult eradicate SARS-CoV-2 compared to smallpox, unfortunately. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Smallpox is far less infectious than influenza, and we know SARS-CoV-2 is far MORE infectious than flu. The herd immunity required to stave off smallpox vs this virus is very, very different. Also the mechanics of spread and the nature of modern mass transportation, very densely populated areas etc etc make it very much more difficult eradicate SARS-CoV-2 compared to smallpox, unfortunately. "
Oh it wouldn't be easy. But I can dream. New Zealand basically eradicated it. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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You're likely correct this thing is here to stay. But we've made such huge strides against Covid in such a short time with the vaccines. That gives a hint of what could be done if we all worked together against a global problem. |
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"Smallpox is far less infectious than influenza, and we know SARS-CoV-2 is far MORE infectious than flu. The herd immunity required to stave off smallpox vs this virus is very, very different. Also the mechanics of spread and the nature of modern mass transportation, very densely populated areas etc etc make it very much more difficult eradicate SARS-CoV-2 compared to smallpox, unfortunately.
Oh it wouldn't be easy. But I can dream. New Zealand basically eradicated it. "
But they haven't really. They've put up physical barriers, effectively, by shutting down and stopping travel. Their population is massively susceptible and it would kick off big time if a couple of asymptomatic spreaders got through. They've had several cases of spread from quarantinees to staff - that just shows that in the face of very stringent measures to prevent people interacting, this virus still gets through. Unless NZ and others step up with vaccines, the second they reopen borders etc, it will take hold. Almost their entire population is susceptible..... |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I do wonder what would have happened if there were a smallpox pandemic today. Would people run around screaming they don't have to take the smallpox vaccine if they don't want to? |
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"I do wonder what would have happened if there were a smallpox pandemic today. Would people run around screaming they don't have to take the smallpox vaccine if they don't want to? "
They did at the time |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Smallpox is far less infectious than influenza, and we know SARS-CoV-2 is far MORE infectious than flu. The herd immunity required to stave off smallpox vs this virus is very, very different. Also the mechanics of spread and the nature of modern mass transportation, very densely populated areas etc etc make it very much more difficult eradicate SARS-CoV-2 compared to smallpox, unfortunately.
Oh it wouldn't be easy. But I can dream. New Zealand basically eradicated it.
But they haven't really. They've put up physical barriers, effectively, by shutting down and stopping travel. Their population is massively susceptible and it would kick off big time if a couple of asymptomatic spreaders got through. They've had several cases of spread from quarantinees to staff - that just shows that in the face of very stringent measures to prevent people interacting, this virus still gets through. Unless NZ and others step up with vaccines, the second they reopen borders etc, it will take hold. Almost their entire population is susceptible....."
That's why Covid eradication would have to be a true global effort. Much like with smallpox.
(I don't think we will see off Covid completely. But I'd really love to be wrong.) |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I do wonder what would have happened if there were a smallpox pandemic today. Would people run around screaming they don't have to take the smallpox vaccine if they don't want to?
They did at the time"
First I've heard of that. Source? |
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"I do wonder what would have happened if there were a smallpox pandemic today. Would people run around screaming they don't have to take the smallpox vaccine if they don't want to?
They did at the time
First I've heard of that. Source?"
Can't remember off the top of my head, but I read about riots in poorer parts of Canada when the smallpox vaccine was mandated there. Also one of the very first anti vax myths was that the smallpox vaccine would turn people into cows. |
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"I do wonder what would have happened if there were a smallpox pandemic today. Would people run around screaming they don't have to take the smallpox vaccine if they don't want to?
They did at the time
First I've heard of that. Source?"
At the very start of variolation with cowpox secretions, people resisted having it done because they thought it would turn them into cows. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I do wonder what would have happened if there were a smallpox pandemic today. Would people run around screaming they don't have to take the smallpox vaccine if they don't want to?
They did at the time
First I've heard of that. Source?
Can't remember off the top of my head, but I read about riots in poorer parts of Canada when the smallpox vaccine was mandated there. Also one of the very first anti vax myths was that the smallpox vaccine would turn people into cows. "
Haha I can just picture the facebook pics and diagrams showing that... now I'm depressed. *sigh* |
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"I'd be interested to hear how the mad "cow"spiracy theory was countered. We desperately need counters to conspiracy theories today."
Laws making it mandatory, would be my guess. Like actually mandatory for everyone. Not restrictions on venues or jobs.
The UK had the first vaccine mandate in history. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I'd be interested to hear how the mad "cow"spiracy theory was countered. We desperately need counters to conspiracy theories today.
Laws making it mandatory, would be my guess. Like actually mandatory for everyone. Not restrictions on venues or jobs.
The UK had the first vaccine mandate in history."
They'll never do that for Covid here. And they probably should. |
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"I'd be interested to hear how the mad "cow"spiracy theory was countered. We desperately need counters to conspiracy theories today.
Laws making it mandatory, would be my guess. Like actually mandatory for everyone. Not restrictions on venues or jobs.
The UK had the first vaccine mandate in history.
They'll never do that for Covid here. And they probably should."
I suspect that we'll see a cultural shift on vaccination. Whether it goes that far, I don't know. |
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"I'd be interested to hear how the mad "cow"spiracy theory was countered. We desperately need counters to conspiracy theories today."
I’m pretty sure they just vaccinated as many as they could “literally” get their hands on |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I'd be interested to hear how the mad "cow"spiracy theory was countered. We desperately need counters to conspiracy theories today.
Laws making it mandatory, would be my guess. Like actually mandatory for everyone. Not restrictions on venues or jobs.
The UK had the first vaccine mandate in history.
They'll never do that for Covid here. And they probably should.
I suspect that we'll see a cultural shift on vaccination. Whether it goes that far, I don't know."
I really doubt we'll ever get to mandated Covid vaccines. There are too many loud voices screaming too loudly against such things. |
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I believe we will eradicate it in time, but it's going to take some very novel medical technology and research to achieve, and some serious testing. Which I suspect may be fast-tracked because...pandemic. After all, the vaccines were fast-tracked.
I am referring to gene-editing, CRISPR-technology.
But not for humans.
For the virus itself.
The way I see it, we could go through endless cycles of vaccines ad infinitum, constantly trying to boost our immune systems to deal with the latest variant. We're always playing catch up. We're treating the symptoms and our response, but not the virus itself.
I would encourage research that takes each known strain and genetically injects a modification which renders it inviolate and harmless. Incapable of survival.
I'm not sure how feasible this is, since my understanding is that the virus is "inert" without a host. It lies dormant, until a host activates it.
So you probably would have to CRISPR-edit our DNA anyway.
At which point, we'd just enhance our immune systems anyway to be completely resistant.
I dunno. Just mulling really.
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"I'd be interested to hear how the mad "cow"spiracy theory was countered. We desperately need counters to conspiracy theories today.
Laws making it mandatory, would be my guess. Like actually mandatory for everyone. Not restrictions on venues or jobs.
The UK had the first vaccine mandate in history.
They'll never do that for Covid here. And they probably should.
I suspect that we'll see a cultural shift on vaccination. Whether it goes that far, I don't know.
I really doubt we'll ever get to mandated Covid vaccines. There are too many loud voices screaming too loudly against such things."
I think it's too soon to say what will arise from this shit show |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I'd be interested to hear how the mad "cow"spiracy theory was countered. We desperately need counters to conspiracy theories today.
Laws making it mandatory, would be my guess. Like actually mandatory for everyone. Not restrictions on venues or jobs.
The UK had the first vaccine mandate in history.
They'll never do that for Covid here. And they probably should.
I suspect that we'll see a cultural shift on vaccination. Whether it goes that far, I don't know.
I really doubt we'll ever get to mandated Covid vaccines. There are too many loud voices screaming too loudly against such things.
I think it's too soon to say what will arise from this shit show"
I'll be v happy to be proved wrong in my scepticism. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I believe we will eradicate it in time, but it's going to take some very novel medical technology and research to achieve, and some serious testing. Which I suspect may be fast-tracked because...pandemic. After all, the vaccines were fast-tracked.
I am referring to gene-editing, CRISPR-technology.
But not for humans.
For the virus itself.
The way I see it, we could go through endless cycles of vaccines ad infinitum, constantly trying to boost our immune systems to deal with the latest variant. We're always playing catch up. We're treating the symptoms and our response, but not the virus itself.
I would encourage research that takes each known strain and genetically injects a modification which renders it inviolate and harmless. Incapable of survival.
I'm not sure how feasible this is, since my understanding is that the virus is "inert" without a host. It lies dormant, until a host activates it.
So you probably would have to CRISPR-edit our DNA anyway.
At which point, we'd just enhance our immune systems anyway to be completely resistant.
I dunno. Just mulling really.
"
That's some interesting mulling, in all fairness. |
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"Smallpox was an awful disease. Through science and a global vaccination program, we eradicated it.
Could we one day do the same with Covid?"
The main issue is covid is far more prone to mutation.
Smallpox was an incredibly stable disease: someone who got it in the 19th century got sick with a strain identical to that which was killing humans when the pyramids were first being built. As such there was no issue with a mutation countering the vaccine |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Smallpox was an awful disease. Through science and a global vaccination program, we eradicated it.
Could we one day do the same with Covid?
The main issue is covid is far more prone to mutation.
Smallpox was an incredibly stable disease: someone who got it in the 19th century got sick with a strain identical to that which was killing humans when the pyramids were first being built. As such there was no issue with a mutation countering the vaccine"
And we just opened the country despite high infection rates, creating a breeding ground for Covid mutations.  |
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By *ynecplCouple
over a year ago
Newcastle upon Tyne |
Australia and New Zealand and in a very difficult situation they are struggling to get their populations to get vaccinated and can't open their borders due to the fact that it would sweep through their population fast. Rather like us they are also experiencing what they are calling Imminity debt because the lockdowns have also seen a massive increase in other respiratory diseases.
Australia are worried they will not be able to open their border until late 2022 or even 2023 at which point their economy will be on it knees. |
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"Australia and New Zealand and in a very difficult situation they are struggling to get their populations to get vaccinated and can't open their borders due to the fact that it would sweep through their population fast. Rather like us they are also experiencing what they are calling Imminity debt because the lockdowns have also seen a massive increase in other respiratory diseases.
Australia are worried they will not be able to open their border until late 2022 or even 2023 at which point their economy will be on it knees."
Just shows how they got it wrong |
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By *ynecplCouple
over a year ago
Newcastle upon Tyne |
"Australia and New Zealand and in a very difficult situation they are struggling to get their populations to get vaccinated and can't open their borders due to the fact that it would sweep through their population fast. Rather like us they are also experiencing what they are calling Imminity debt because the lockdowns have also seen a massive increase in other respiratory diseases.
Australia are worried they will not be able to open their border until late 2022 or even 2023 at which point their economy will be on it knees. Just shows how they got it wrong "
Doesn't mean it was wrong but proves that regardless of approach they all bring issues and challenges. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Australia and New Zealand and in a very difficult situation they are struggling to get their populations to get vaccinated and can't open their borders due to the fact that it would sweep through their population fast. Rather like us they are also experiencing what they are calling Imminity debt because the lockdowns have also seen a massive increase in other respiratory diseases.
Australia are worried they will not be able to open their border until late 2022 or even 2023 at which point their economy will be on it knees. Just shows how they got it wrong "
Just shows that you cannot have only one approach to fighting Covid, lockdowns (or restrictions as we have had) need to be in conjunction with borders being closed and a vaccination drive. You can’t place all your eggs in one basket. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Smallpox was an awful disease. Through science and a global vaccination program, we eradicated it.
Could we one day do the same with Covid?"
Smallpox was never eradicated
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The main issue is covid is far more prone to mutation.
Smallpox was an incredibly stable disease: someone who got it in the 19th century got sick with a strain identical to that which was killing humans when the pyramids were first being built. As such there was no issue with a mutation countering the vaccine"
Very good point! |
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Unfortunately things like this will never be fully irradicated due to no financial incentive to do so. Vaccines and treatments cost less to administer and in some countries cost the recipient Their life savings several times over |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Smallpox is far less infectious than influenza, and we know SARS-CoV-2 is far MORE infectious than flu. The herd immunity required to stave off smallpox vs this virus is very, very different. Also the mechanics of spread and the nature of modern mass transportation, very densely populated areas etc etc make it very much more difficult eradicate SARS-CoV-2 compared to smallpox, unfortunately. "
The Case Fatality Rate of Sars-CoV-2 is 1.4%
The Case Fatality Rate of smallpox was 30%
The Case Fatality Rate of Rabies, if untreated, is 99%
The reproduction Number (RO) is an indicator of the contagiousness or transmissibility of infection.
The Reproduction Number (RO) of smallpox was 5 to 7
The Reproduction Number of Sars-CoV-2 is 1.5 to 3.5
The Reproduction Number of Measles is 12 to 18 |
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"Smallpox is far less infectious than influenza, and we know SARS-CoV-2 is far MORE infectious than flu. The herd immunity required to stave off smallpox vs this virus is very, very different. Also the mechanics of spread and the nature of modern mass transportation, very densely populated areas etc etc make it very much more difficult eradicate SARS-CoV-2 compared to smallpox, unfortunately.
The Case Fatality Rate of Sars-CoV-2 is 1.4%
The Case Fatality Rate of smallpox was 30%
The Case Fatality Rate of Rabies, if untreated, is 99%
The reproduction Number (RO) is an indicator of the contagiousness or transmissibility of infection.
The Reproduction Number (RO) of smallpox was 5 to 7
The Reproduction Number of Sars-CoV-2 is 1.5 to 3.5
The Reproduction Number of Measles is 12 to 18"
I think we have to be careful when comparing diseases.
I don't have the scientific knowledge to explain correctly, but the diseases and vaccines required work differently.
So for example all diseases can mutate but small pox and measles seem to be more stable. Therefore a vaccine gives life long coverage.
Also the infections travel differently so I believe small pox was primarily by touch.
Covid is air Bourne and is for the moment mutating, it may stabilise like other diseases or may mutate like flu.
So that will determine how impactful science can be at managing or eradicating.
The other issue is covid being transmissible without symptoms. |
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"Smallpox was an awful disease. Through science and a global vaccination program, we eradicated it.
Could we one day do the same with Covid?"
Maybe... But I think we need to be cautious with the thinking that because one vaccine was the answer for one disease, therefore all vaccines are the answer for all diseases. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Smallpox was an awful disease. Through science and a global vaccination program, we eradicated it.
Could we one day do the same with Covid?
Smallpox was never eradicated
I'm sorry?  "
I know. *sigh* |
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I think the most important thing to remember is.. To find out if the vaccine worked someone had to take a punt on it, try it out on someone.. And without that we would still have the thing!
Bottom line unless we try to use medicines and take risks with vaccinations we have no way of knowing if anything will work..
Same as the situation we are in today! |
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"Smallpox was an awful disease. Through science and a global vaccination program, we eradicated it.
Could we one day do the same with Covid?
Smallpox was never eradicated
I'm sorry?
I know. *sigh*
"
I suppose that it isn't totally eradicated, as there are samples in Russia and the US.
But "in the wild" it certainly seems to be. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Smallpox was an awful disease. Through science and a global vaccination program, we eradicated it.
Could we one day do the same with Covid?
Smallpox was never eradicated
I'm sorry?
I know. *sigh*
I suppose that it isn't totally eradicated, as there are samples in Russia and the US.
But "in the wild" it certainly seems to be."
George Soros and the space lizards of the New World Order have a stock too, you can be sure of it! It’s all a globalist conspiracy created by the bankers (and other anti-Semitic dog whistles). |
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R0 of smallpox is estimated to be around 3, could be up to 6
R0 of the original strain of SARS-CoV-2 is around 3; the Delta strain is estimated to have an R0 of 6 (at least).
Smallpox was predominantly physical, face-to-face, prolonged contact, with a need to touch infected body fluids on a person, their clothes, bedding etc. It was not respiratory droplet or aerosol spread in the air.
The high infectiousness of the current strains of SARS-CoV-2, coupled with the mechanism of spread make it, in the 21st century, much more of a challenge than smallpox.
Smallpox spread easily in crowded accommodation, where people handled infected clothing/bedding of sufferers. We have a highly infectious respiratory virus which spreads easily on modern crowded public transport; in sports stadia; concert venues; nightclubs etc, none of which existed at the height of the smallpox epidemics AND someone with active smallpox was identifiable by the disfiguring pustules. We cannot identify those infected with SARS-CoV-2 by just looking at them and most people are most infectious at the start of their period of disease, when the symptoms are, generally, least severe and many people are able to go about their business ("it's only hayfever/a little cough" etc). |
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"Smallpox is far less infectious than influenza, and we know SARS-CoV-2 is far MORE infectious than flu. The herd immunity required to stave off smallpox vs this virus is very, very different. Also the mechanics of spread and the nature of modern mass transportation, very densely populated areas etc etc make it very much more difficult eradicate SARS-CoV-2 compared to smallpox, unfortunately.
Oh it wouldn't be easy. But I can dream. New Zealand basically eradicated it. "
New Zealand never let it get a foothold. Problem is they can’t sustain a quarantine wall on everyone entering forever.... Covid will be with us for a very long time. It is easily transmitted and the human bodies immune response to either infection or vaccination is quite short lived and not 100% effective. Even if we pull case numbers right down there will always be a background pool of infected from which it will again break out |
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"Smallpox is far less infectious than influenza, and we know SARS-CoV-2 is far MORE infectious than flu. The herd immunity required to stave off smallpox vs this virus is very, very different. Also the mechanics of spread and the nature of modern mass transportation, very densely populated areas etc etc make it very much more difficult eradicate SARS-CoV-2 compared to smallpox, unfortunately.
Oh it wouldn't be easy. But I can dream. New Zealand basically eradicated it.
New Zealand never let it get a foothold. Problem is they can’t sustain a quarantine wall on everyone entering forever.... Covid will be with us for a very long time. It is easily transmitted and the human bodies immune response to either infection or vaccination is quite short lived and not 100% effective. Even if we pull case numbers right down there will always be a background pool of infected from which it will again break out "
And they can vaccinate rather than letting it rip. What an excellent position to be in. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Smallpox is far less infectious than influenza, and we know SARS-CoV-2 is far MORE infectious than flu. The herd immunity required to stave off smallpox vs this virus is very, very different. Also the mechanics of spread and the nature of modern mass transportation, very densely populated areas etc etc make it very much more difficult eradicate SARS-CoV-2 compared to smallpox, unfortunately.
Oh it wouldn't be easy. But I can dream. New Zealand basically eradicated it.
New Zealand never let it get a foothold. Problem is they can’t sustain a quarantine wall on everyone entering forever.... Covid will be with us for a very long time. It is easily transmitted and the human bodies immune response to either infection or vaccination is quite short lived and not 100% effective. Even if we pull case numbers right down there will always be a background pool of infected from which it will again break out
And they can vaccinate rather than letting it rip. What an excellent position to be in."
Yup |
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"Smallpox is far less infectious than influenza, and we know SARS-CoV-2 is far MORE infectious than flu. The herd immunity required to stave off smallpox vs this virus is very, very different. Also the mechanics of spread and the nature of modern mass transportation, very densely populated areas etc etc make it very much more difficult eradicate SARS-CoV-2 compared to smallpox, unfortunately.
Oh it wouldn't be easy. But I can dream. New Zealand basically eradicated it.
New Zealand never let it get a foothold. Problem is they can’t sustain a quarantine wall on everyone entering forever.... Covid will be with us for a very long time. It is easily transmitted and the human bodies immune response to either infection or vaccination is quite short lived and not 100% effective. Even if we pull case numbers right down there will always be a background pool of infected from which it will again break out
And they can vaccinate rather than letting it rip. What an excellent position to be in."
NZ are far behind us in vaccination. Everyone over 18 here should now have had the opportunity for at least one vaccination... so it is us that have vaccinated before letting it rip! |
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"Smallpox is far less infectious than influenza, and we know SARS-CoV-2 is far MORE infectious than flu. The herd immunity required to stave off smallpox vs this virus is very, very different. Also the mechanics of spread and the nature of modern mass transportation, very densely populated areas etc etc make it very much more difficult eradicate SARS-CoV-2 compared to smallpox, unfortunately.
Oh it wouldn't be easy. But I can dream. New Zealand basically eradicated it.
New Zealand never let it get a foothold. Problem is they can’t sustain a quarantine wall on everyone entering forever.... Covid will be with us for a very long time. It is easily transmitted and the human bodies immune response to either infection or vaccination is quite short lived and not 100% effective. Even if we pull case numbers right down there will always be a background pool of infected from which it will again break out
And they can vaccinate rather than letting it rip. What an excellent position to be in.
NZ are far behind us in vaccination. Everyone over 18 here should now have had the opportunity for at least one vaccination... so it is us that have vaccinated before letting it rip!"
The UK has let it rip throughout and has had one of the worst responses in the world. And are now really letting it rip before most of the under 40s are fully protected.
New Zealand suppressed it and has suffered almost no death, disability, or lockdown.
If you adjust for population, if NZ had had a death rate like the UK, 9900 Kiwis would have died.
Let me remind you that their death toll stands at *twenty six*. |
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"Smallpox is far less infectious than influenza, and we know SARS-CoV-2 is far MORE infectious than flu. The herd immunity required to stave off smallpox vs this virus is very, very different. Also the mechanics of spread and the nature of modern mass transportation, very densely populated areas etc etc make it very much more difficult eradicate SARS-CoV-2 compared to smallpox, unfortunately.
Oh it wouldn't be easy. But I can dream. New Zealand basically eradicated it.
New Zealand never let it get a foothold. Problem is they can’t sustain a quarantine wall on everyone entering forever.... Covid will be with us for a very long time. It is easily transmitted and the human bodies immune response to either infection or vaccination is quite short lived and not 100% effective. Even if we pull case numbers right down there will always be a background pool of infected from which it will again break out
And they can vaccinate rather than letting it rip. What an excellent position to be in.
NZ are far behind us in vaccination. Everyone over 18 here should now have had the opportunity for at least one vaccination... so it is us that have vaccinated before letting it rip!
The UK has let it rip throughout and has had one of the worst responses in the world. And are now really letting it rip before most of the under 40s are fully protected.
New Zealand suppressed it and has suffered almost no death, disability, or lockdown.
If you adjust for population, if NZ had had a death rate like the UK, 9900 Kiwis would have died.
Let me remind you that their death toll stands at *twenty six*."
There are two points here..
1) NZ was fortunate and had the luxury of isolating itself before the virus got a foothold. We could and hindsight shows we should have done more sooner to prevent importing new cases but even in early feb 2020 we had enough domestic transmission already occurring that eradication was already impossible.
2) it’s now unavoidable that almost everyone is going to catch it at some point. We are further into that process. NZ will eventually have to choose between letting covid rip in a largely vaccinated population, as we are now, or keeping itself isolated for ever!
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"Smallpox is far less infectious than influenza, and we know SARS-CoV-2 is far MORE infectious than flu. The herd immunity required to stave off smallpox vs this virus is very, very different. Also the mechanics of spread and the nature of modern mass transportation, very densely populated areas etc etc make it very much more difficult eradicate SARS-CoV-2 compared to smallpox, unfortunately.
Oh it wouldn't be easy. But I can dream. New Zealand basically eradicated it.
New Zealand never let it get a foothold. Problem is they can’t sustain a quarantine wall on everyone entering forever.... Covid will be with us for a very long time. It is easily transmitted and the human bodies immune response to either infection or vaccination is quite short lived and not 100% effective. Even if we pull case numbers right down there will always be a background pool of infected from which it will again break out
And they can vaccinate rather than letting it rip. What an excellent position to be in.
NZ are far behind us in vaccination. Everyone over 18 here should now have had the opportunity for at least one vaccination... so it is us that have vaccinated before letting it rip!
The UK has let it rip throughout and has had one of the worst responses in the world. And are now really letting it rip before most of the under 40s are fully protected.
New Zealand suppressed it and has suffered almost no death, disability, or lockdown.
If you adjust for population, if NZ had had a death rate like the UK, 9900 Kiwis would have died.
Let me remind you that their death toll stands at *twenty six*.
There are two points here..
1) NZ was fortunate and had the luxury of isolating itself before the virus got a foothold. We could and hindsight shows we should have done more sooner to prevent importing new cases but even in early feb 2020 we had enough domestic transmission already occurring that eradication was already impossible.
2) it’s now unavoidable that almost everyone is going to catch it at some point. We are further into that process. NZ will eventually have to choose between letting covid rip in a largely vaccinated population, as we are now, or keeping itself isolated for ever!
"
New Zealand had intelligent leadership and did the right thing, while the UK refused to do so at every stage.
New Zealand can live normal lives in isolation without Covid, and have done for about a year now.
New Zealand can vaccinate before letting Covid in. And can watch and learn from our mistakes because they're not in an emergency.
I'm sure all the dead Brits are grateful for the vaccine program though. Christ, you could be alive and well waiting for a vaccine in New Zealand. How awful. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Smallpox is far less infectious than influenza, and we know SARS-CoV-2 is far MORE infectious than flu. The herd immunity required to stave off smallpox vs this virus is very, very different. Also the mechanics of spread and the nature of modern mass transportation, very densely populated areas etc etc make it very much more difficult eradicate SARS-CoV-2 compared to smallpox, unfortunately.
Oh it wouldn't be easy. But I can dream. New Zealand basically eradicated it.
New Zealand never let it get a foothold. Problem is they can’t sustain a quarantine wall on everyone entering forever.... Covid will be with us for a very long time. It is easily transmitted and the human bodies immune response to either infection or vaccination is quite short lived and not 100% effective. Even if we pull case numbers right down there will always be a background pool of infected from which it will again break out
And they can vaccinate rather than letting it rip. What an excellent position to be in.
NZ are far behind us in vaccination. Everyone over 18 here should now have had the opportunity for at least one vaccination... so it is us that have vaccinated before letting it rip!
The UK has let it rip throughout and has had one of the worst responses in the world. And are now really letting it rip before most of the under 40s are fully protected.
New Zealand suppressed it and has suffered almost no death, disability, or lockdown.
If you adjust for population, if NZ had had a death rate like the UK, 9900 Kiwis would have died.
Let me remind you that their death toll stands at *twenty six*.
There are two points here..
1) NZ was fortunate and had the luxury of isolating itself before the virus got a foothold. We could and hindsight shows we should have done more sooner to prevent importing new cases but even in early feb 2020 we had enough domestic transmission already occurring that eradication was already impossible.
2) it’s now unavoidable that almost everyone is going to catch it at some point. We are further into that process. NZ will eventually have to choose between letting covid rip in a largely vaccinated population, as we are now, or keeping itself isolated for ever!
New Zealand had intelligent leadership and did the right thing, while the UK refused to do so at every stage.
New Zealand can live normal lives in isolation without Covid, and have done for about a year now.
New Zealand can vaccinate before letting Covid in. And can watch and learn from our mistakes because they're not in an emergency.
I'm sure all the dead Brits are grateful for the vaccine program though. Christ, you could be alive and well waiting for a vaccine in New Zealand. How awful."
A very different demographic though, it doesnt have a land link with another country and is about 2500 miles from the nearest one not 22 miles and is not a world international hub so its much easier to isolate.Its also about 10% larger than the uk with about 63 million less people .
I wold hazard a guess that they are also not getting 8000 untested people arriving illegally every year either.
Its impossible to compare the 2 countries. |
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"Smallpox is far less infectious than influenza, and we know SARS-CoV-2 is far MORE infectious than flu. The herd immunity required to stave off smallpox vs this virus is very, very different. Also the mechanics of spread and the nature of modern mass transportation, very densely populated areas etc etc make it very much more difficult eradicate SARS-CoV-2 compared to smallpox, unfortunately.
Oh it wouldn't be easy. But I can dream. New Zealand basically eradicated it.
New Zealand never let it get a foothold. Problem is they can’t sustain a quarantine wall on everyone entering forever.... Covid will be with us for a very long time. It is easily transmitted and the human bodies immune response to either infection or vaccination is quite short lived and not 100% effective. Even if we pull case numbers right down there will always be a background pool of infected from which it will again break out
And they can vaccinate rather than letting it rip. What an excellent position to be in.
NZ are far behind us in vaccination. Everyone over 18 here should now have had the opportunity for at least one vaccination... so it is us that have vaccinated before letting it rip!
The UK has let it rip throughout and has had one of the worst responses in the world. And are now really letting it rip before most of the under 40s are fully protected.
New Zealand suppressed it and has suffered almost no death, disability, or lockdown.
If you adjust for population, if NZ had had a death rate like the UK, 9900 Kiwis would have died.
Let me remind you that their death toll stands at *twenty six*.
There are two points here..
1) NZ was fortunate and had the luxury of isolating itself before the virus got a foothold. We could and hindsight shows we should have done more sooner to prevent importing new cases but even in early feb 2020 we had enough domestic transmission already occurring that eradication was already impossible.
2) it’s now unavoidable that almost everyone is going to catch it at some point. We are further into that process. NZ will eventually have to choose between letting covid rip in a largely vaccinated population, as we are now, or keeping itself isolated for ever!
New Zealand had intelligent leadership and did the right thing, while the UK refused to do so at every stage.
New Zealand can live normal lives in isolation without Covid, and have done for about a year now.
New Zealand can vaccinate before letting Covid in. And can watch and learn from our mistakes because they're not in an emergency.
I'm sure all the dead Brits are grateful for the vaccine program though. Christ, you could be alive and well waiting for a vaccine in New Zealand. How awful.A very different demographic though, it doesnt have a land link with another country and is about 2500 miles from the nearest one not 22 miles and is not a world international hub so its much easier to isolate.Its also about 10% larger than the uk with about 63 million less people .
I wold hazard a guess that they are also not getting 8000 untested people arriving illegally every year either.
Its impossible to compare the 2 countries. "
So the UK isn't a sovereign nation with the power to close its borders and handle a few thousand irregular migrations?
I thought it was a great and mighty nation. And that Brexit meant sovereignty.
Honestly people, be honest with yourselves. The UK has phenomenonally fucked this up. |
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"Smallpox is far less infectious than influenza, and we know SARS-CoV-2 is far MORE infectious than flu. The herd immunity required to stave off smallpox vs this virus is very, very different. Also the mechanics of spread and the nature of modern mass transportation, very densely populated areas etc etc make it very much more difficult eradicate SARS-CoV-2 compared to smallpox, unfortunately.
Oh it wouldn't be easy. But I can dream. New Zealand basically eradicated it.
New Zealand never let it get a foothold. Problem is they can’t sustain a quarantine wall on everyone entering forever.... Covid will be with us for a very long time. It is easily transmitted and the human bodies immune response to either infection or vaccination is quite short lived and not 100% effective. Even if we pull case numbers right down there will always be a background pool of infected from which it will again break out
And they can vaccinate rather than letting it rip. What an excellent position to be in.
NZ are far behind us in vaccination. Everyone over 18 here should now have had the opportunity for at least one vaccination... so it is us that have vaccinated before letting it rip!
The UK has let it rip throughout and has had one of the worst responses in the world. And are now really letting it rip before most of the under 40s are fully protected.
New Zealand suppressed it and has suffered almost no death, disability, or lockdown.
If you adjust for population, if NZ had had a death rate like the UK, 9900 Kiwis would have died.
Let me remind you that their death toll stands at *twenty six*.
There are two points here..
1) NZ was fortunate and had the luxury of isolating itself before the virus got a foothold. We could and hindsight shows we should have done more sooner to prevent importing new cases but even in early feb 2020 we had enough domestic transmission already occurring that eradication was already impossible.
2) it’s now unavoidable that almost everyone is going to catch it at some point. We are further into that process. NZ will eventually have to choose between letting covid rip in a largely vaccinated population, as we are now, or keeping itself isolated for ever!
New Zealand had intelligent leadership and did the right thing, while the UK refused to do so at every stage.
New Zealand can live normal lives in isolation without Covid, and have done for about a year now.
New Zealand can vaccinate before letting Covid in. And can watch and learn from our mistakes because they're not in an emergency.
I'm sure all the dead Brits are grateful for the vaccine program though. Christ, you could be alive and well waiting for a vaccine in New Zealand. How awful.A very different demographic though, it doesnt have a land link with another country and is about 2500 miles from the nearest one not 22 miles and is not a world international hub so its much easier to isolate.Its also about 10% larger than the uk with about 63 million less people .
I wold hazard a guess that they are also not getting 8000 untested people arriving illegally every year either.
Its impossible to compare the 2 countries. "
 |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Smallpox is far less infectious than influenza, and we know SARS-CoV-2 is far MORE infectious than flu. The herd immunity required to stave off smallpox vs this virus is very, very different. Also the mechanics of spread and the nature of modern mass transportation, very densely populated areas etc etc make it very much more difficult eradicate SARS-CoV-2 compared to smallpox, unfortunately.
Oh it wouldn't be easy. But I can dream. New Zealand basically eradicated it.
New Zealand never let it get a foothold. Problem is they can’t sustain a quarantine wall on everyone entering forever.... Covid will be with us for a very long time. It is easily transmitted and the human bodies immune response to either infection or vaccination is quite short lived and not 100% effective. Even if we pull case numbers right down there will always be a background pool of infected from which it will again break out
And they can vaccinate rather than letting it rip. What an excellent position to be in.
NZ are far behind us in vaccination. Everyone over 18 here should now have had the opportunity for at least one vaccination... so it is us that have vaccinated before letting it rip!
The UK has let it rip throughout and has had one of the worst responses in the world. And are now really letting it rip before most of the under 40s are fully protected.
New Zealand suppressed it and has suffered almost no death, disability, or lockdown.
If you adjust for population, if NZ had had a death rate like the UK, 9900 Kiwis would have died.
Let me remind you that their death toll stands at *twenty six*.
There are two points here..
1) NZ was fortunate and had the luxury of isolating itself before the virus got a foothold. We could and hindsight shows we should have done more sooner to prevent importing new cases but even in early feb 2020 we had enough domestic transmission already occurring that eradication was already impossible.
2) it’s now unavoidable that almost everyone is going to catch it at some point. We are further into that process. NZ will eventually have to choose between letting covid rip in a largely vaccinated population, as we are now, or keeping itself isolated for ever!
New Zealand had intelligent leadership and did the right thing, while the UK refused to do so at every stage.
New Zealand can live normal lives in isolation without Covid, and have done for about a year now.
New Zealand can vaccinate before letting Covid in. And can watch and learn from our mistakes because they're not in an emergency.
I'm sure all the dead Brits are grateful for the vaccine program though. Christ, you could be alive and well waiting for a vaccine in New Zealand. How awful.A very different demographic though, it doesnt have a land link with another country and is about 2500 miles from the nearest one not 22 miles and is not a world international hub so its much easier to isolate.Its also about 10% larger than the uk with about 63 million less people .
I wold hazard a guess that they are also not getting 8000 untested people arriving illegally every year either.
Its impossible to compare the 2 countries.
So the UK isn't a sovereign nation with the power to close its borders and handle a few thousand irregular migrations?
I thought it was a great and mighty nation. And that Brexit meant sovereignty.
Honestly people, be honest with yourselves. The UK has phenomenonally fucked this up."
All countries have the power to do that yet they seem to have the same problem. I am very pleased that NZ managed so well but as i said more down to demographics population and the fact most imports come by boat. |
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"Smallpox is far less infectious than influenza, and we know SARS-CoV-2 is far MORE infectious than flu. The herd immunity required to stave off smallpox vs this virus is very, very different. Also the mechanics of spread and the nature of modern mass transportation, very densely populated areas etc etc make it very much more difficult eradicate SARS-CoV-2 compared to smallpox, unfortunately.
Oh it wouldn't be easy. But I can dream. New Zealand basically eradicated it.
New Zealand never let it get a foothold. Problem is they can’t sustain a quarantine wall on everyone entering forever.... Covid will be with us for a very long time. It is easily transmitted and the human bodies immune response to either infection or vaccination is quite short lived and not 100% effective. Even if we pull case numbers right down there will always be a background pool of infected from which it will again break out
And they can vaccinate rather than letting it rip. What an excellent position to be in.
NZ are far behind us in vaccination. Everyone over 18 here should now have had the opportunity for at least one vaccination... so it is us that have vaccinated before letting it rip!
The UK has let it rip throughout and has had one of the worst responses in the world. And are now really letting it rip before most of the under 40s are fully protected.
New Zealand suppressed it and has suffered almost no death, disability, or lockdown.
If you adjust for population, if NZ had had a death rate like the UK, 9900 Kiwis would have died.
Let me remind you that their death toll stands at *twenty six*.
There are two points here..
1) NZ was fortunate and had the luxury of isolating itself before the virus got a foothold. We could and hindsight shows we should have done more sooner to prevent importing new cases but even in early feb 2020 we had enough domestic transmission already occurring that eradication was already impossible.
2) it’s now unavoidable that almost everyone is going to catch it at some point. We are further into that process. NZ will eventually have to choose between letting covid rip in a largely vaccinated population, as we are now, or keeping itself isolated for ever!
New Zealand had intelligent leadership and did the right thing, while the UK refused to do so at every stage.
New Zealand can live normal lives in isolation without Covid, and have done for about a year now.
New Zealand can vaccinate before letting Covid in. And can watch and learn from our mistakes because they're not in an emergency.
I'm sure all the dead Brits are grateful for the vaccine program though. Christ, you could be alive and well waiting for a vaccine in New Zealand. How awful.A very different demographic though, it doesnt have a land link with another country and is about 2500 miles from the nearest one not 22 miles and is not a world international hub so its much easier to isolate.Its also about 10% larger than the uk with about 63 million less people .
I wold hazard a guess that they are also not getting 8000 untested people arriving illegally every year either.
Its impossible to compare the 2 countries.
So the UK isn't a sovereign nation with the power to close its borders and handle a few thousand irregular migrations?
I thought it was a great and mighty nation. And that Brexit meant sovereignty.
Honestly people, be honest with yourselves. The UK has phenomenonally fucked this up.All countries have the power to do that yet they seem to have the same problem. I am very pleased that NZ managed so well but as i said more down to demographics population and the fact most imports come by boat."
So the UK could have closed the border?
Does the UK not have the intellect to come up with an alternative system for importation during a crisis, or the manpower to implement it? |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Smallpox is far less infectious than influenza, and we know SARS-CoV-2 is far MORE infectious than flu. The herd immunity required to stave off smallpox vs this virus is very, very different. Also the mechanics of spread and the nature of modern mass transportation, very densely populated areas etc etc make it very much more difficult eradicate SARS-CoV-2 compared to smallpox, unfortunately.
Oh it wouldn't be easy. But I can dream. New Zealand basically eradicated it.
New Zealand never let it get a foothold. Problem is they can’t sustain a quarantine wall on everyone entering forever.... Covid will be with us for a very long time. It is easily transmitted and the human bodies immune response to either infection or vaccination is quite short lived and not 100% effective. Even if we pull case numbers right down there will always be a background pool of infected from which it will again break out
And they can vaccinate rather than letting it rip. What an excellent position to be in.
NZ are far behind us in vaccination. Everyone over 18 here should now have had the opportunity for at least one vaccination... so it is us that have vaccinated before letting it rip!
The UK has let it rip throughout and has had one of the worst responses in the world. And are now really letting it rip before most of the under 40s are fully protected.
New Zealand suppressed it and has suffered almost no death, disability, or lockdown.
If you adjust for population, if NZ had had a death rate like the UK, 9900 Kiwis would have died.
Let me remind you that their death toll stands at *twenty six*.
There are two points here..
1) NZ was fortunate and had the luxury of isolating itself before the virus got a foothold. We could and hindsight shows we should have done more sooner to prevent importing new cases but even in early feb 2020 we had enough domestic transmission already occurring that eradication was already impossible.
2) it’s now unavoidable that almost everyone is going to catch it at some point. We are further into that process. NZ will eventually have to choose between letting covid rip in a largely vaccinated population, as we are now, or keeping itself isolated for ever!
New Zealand had intelligent leadership and did the right thing, while the UK refused to do so at every stage.
New Zealand can live normal lives in isolation without Covid, and have done for about a year now.
New Zealand can vaccinate before letting Covid in. And can watch and learn from our mistakes because they're not in an emergency.
I'm sure all the dead Brits are grateful for the vaccine program though. Christ, you could be alive and well waiting for a vaccine in New Zealand. How awful.A very different demographic though, it doesnt have a land link with another country and is about 2500 miles from the nearest one not 22 miles and is not a world international hub so its much easier to isolate.Its also about 10% larger than the uk with about 63 million less people .
I wold hazard a guess that they are also not getting 8000 untested people arriving illegally every year either.
Its impossible to compare the 2 countries.
So the UK isn't a sovereign nation with the power to close its borders and handle a few thousand irregular migrations?
I thought it was a great and mighty nation. And that Brexit meant sovereignty.
Honestly people, be honest with yourselves. The UK has phenomenonally fucked this up.All countries have the power to do that yet they seem to have the same problem. I am very pleased that NZ managed so well but as i said more down to demographics population and the fact most imports come by boat.
So the UK could have closed the border?
Does the UK not have the intellect to come up with an alternative system for importation during a crisis, or the manpower to implement it?"
Unfortunatly it came to close to brexit and the uk is to reliant on goods coming across from France and to answer your question no . |
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So, in summary, with no comparison because that's forbidden
The UK did not close its borders despite centuries of knowledge about quarantine
The UK cannot control its borders
The UK did not implement alternatives to importation (such as quarantine zones)
The UK did not install ventilation in schools
The UK did not top up support for self isolation
The UK is not rolling out universal vaccines down to 12, despite them being approved
The UK is the first nation to let it rip before we've hit a level of population immunity deemed sufficient.
And, remembering that no comparison is permitted, the UK has a vaccination program. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"So, in summary, with no comparison because that's forbidden
The UK did not close its borders despite centuries of knowledge about quarantine
The UK cannot control its borders
The UK did not implement alternatives to importation (such as quarantine zones)
The UK did not install ventilation in schools
The UK did not top up support for self isolation
The UK is not rolling out universal vaccines down to 12, despite them being approved
The UK is the first nation to let it rip before we've hit a level of population immunity deemed sufficient.
And, remembering that no comparison is permitted, the UK has a vaccination program."
I did not say it was forbidden just that its very naïve to even think the two countries are the same. I was pointing out some of the differences you obviously dont think there are or are just looking for confrontation either way that was what my post was pointing out. |
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"Smallpox is far less infectious than influenza, and we know SARS-CoV-2 is far MORE infectious than flu. The herd immunity required to stave off smallpox vs this virus is very, very different. Also the mechanics of spread and the nature of modern mass transportation, very densely populated areas etc etc make it very much more difficult eradicate SARS-CoV-2 compared to smallpox, unfortunately.
Oh it wouldn't be easy. But I can dream. New Zealand basically eradicated it.
New Zealand never let it get a foothold. Problem is they can’t sustain a quarantine wall on everyone entering forever.... Covid will be with us for a very long time. It is easily transmitted and the human bodies immune response to either infection or vaccination is quite short lived and not 100% effective. Even if we pull case numbers right down there will always be a background pool of infected from which it will again break out
And they can vaccinate rather than letting it rip. What an excellent position to be in.
NZ are far behind us in vaccination. Everyone over 18 here should now have had the opportunity for at least one vaccination... so it is us that have vaccinated before letting it rip!
The UK has let it rip throughout and has had one of the worst responses in the world. And are now really letting it rip before most of the under 40s are fully protected.
New Zealand suppressed it and has suffered almost no death, disability, or lockdown.
If you adjust for population, if NZ had had a death rate like the UK, 9900 Kiwis would have died.
Let me remind you that their death toll stands at *twenty six*.
There are two points here..
1) NZ was fortunate and had the luxury of isolating itself before the virus got a foothold. We could and hindsight shows we should have done more sooner to prevent importing new cases but even in early feb 2020 we had enough domestic transmission already occurring that eradication was already impossible.
2) it’s now unavoidable that almost everyone is going to catch it at some point. We are further into that process. NZ will eventually have to choose between letting covid rip in a largely vaccinated population, as we are now, or keeping itself isolated for ever!
New Zealand had intelligent leadership and did the right thing, while the UK refused to do so at every stage.
New Zealand can live normal lives in isolation without Covid, and have done for about a year now.
New Zealand can vaccinate before letting Covid in. And can watch and learn from our mistakes because they're not in an emergency.
I'm sure all the dead Brits are grateful for the vaccine program though. Christ, you could be alive and well waiting for a vaccine in New Zealand. How awful.A very different demographic though, it doesnt have a land link with another country and is about 2500 miles from the nearest one not 22 miles and is not a world international hub so its much easier to isolate.Its also about 10% larger than the uk with about 63 million less people .
I wold hazard a guess that they are also not getting 8000 untested people arriving illegally every year either.
Its impossible to compare the 2 countries.
So the UK isn't a sovereign nation with the power to close its borders and handle a few thousand irregular migrations?
I thought it was a great and mighty nation. And that Brexit meant sovereignty.
Honestly people, be honest with yourselves. The UK has phenomenonally fucked this up.All countries have the power to do that yet they seem to have the same problem. I am very pleased that NZ managed so well but as i said more down to demographics population and the fact most imports come by boat.
So the UK could have closed the border?
Does the UK not have the intellect to come up with an alternative system for importation during a crisis, or the manpower to implement it?Unfortunatly it came to close to brexit and the uk is to reliant on goods coming across from France and to answer your question no . "
So any measures to enforce border hygeine into the UK are utterly impossible because of a brexit based on controlling our borders, which we cannot do because of brexit, and because of reliance on goods coming from Europe which we have brexited from because we cannot do without Europe?
Also it is too large an intellectual challenge to come up with a plan such as large lorry parks near the channel crossing points where lorry trailers could be unhooked and switched to cabs from the receiving country, and the foreign cabs could pick up trailers to take back to the continent, all without foreign drivers ever getting out of their cabs on uk soil. If only we had some large lorry parks like that, which would also be useful points for performing customs checks and the like. No doubt that is also physically impossible because brexit.
How useful to be able to blame piss poor response to covid on brexit, and to be able to blame all economic losses of brexit on covid. Of course as these events happened under the watch of two different governments, we will never be able to determine whether all of the woes of the country for the next 20 years are due to the problems caused by the brexit of the tory government under Boris Johnson, or due to the impossible job of managing covid that was inherited by the tory government under Alexander Johnson because of the poor brexit arrangements of Boris Johnson... |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Smallpox is far less infectious than influenza, and we know SARS-CoV-2 is far MORE infectious than flu. The herd immunity required to stave off smallpox vs this virus is very, very different. Also the mechanics of spread and the nature of modern mass transportation, very densely populated areas etc etc make it very much more difficult eradicate SARS-CoV-2 compared to smallpox, unfortunately.
Oh it wouldn't be easy. But I can dream. New Zealand basically eradicated it.
New Zealand never let it get a foothold. Problem is they can’t sustain a quarantine wall on everyone entering forever.... Covid will be with us for a very long time. It is easily transmitted and the human bodies immune response to either infection or vaccination is quite short lived and not 100% effective. Even if we pull case numbers right down there will always be a background pool of infected from which it will again break out
And they can vaccinate rather than letting it rip. What an excellent position to be in.
NZ are far behind us in vaccination. Everyone over 18 here should now have had the opportunity for at least one vaccination... so it is us that have vaccinated before letting it rip!
The UK has let it rip throughout and has had one of the worst responses in the world. And are now really letting it rip before most of the under 40s are fully protected.
New Zealand suppressed it and has suffered almost no death, disability, or lockdown.
If you adjust for population, if NZ had had a death rate like the UK, 9900 Kiwis would have died.
Let me remind you that their death toll stands at *twenty six*.
There are two points here..
1) NZ was fortunate and had the luxury of isolating itself before the virus got a foothold. We could and hindsight shows we should have done more sooner to prevent importing new cases but even in early feb 2020 we had enough domestic transmission already occurring that eradication was already impossible.
2) it’s now unavoidable that almost everyone is going to catch it at some point. We are further into that process. NZ will eventually have to choose between letting covid rip in a largely vaccinated population, as we are now, or keeping itself isolated for ever!
New Zealand had intelligent leadership and did the right thing, while the UK refused to do so at every stage.
New Zealand can live normal lives in isolation without Covid, and have done for about a year now.
New Zealand can vaccinate before letting Covid in. And can watch and learn from our mistakes because they're not in an emergency.
I'm sure all the dead Brits are grateful for the vaccine program though. Christ, you could be alive and well waiting for a vaccine in New Zealand. How awful.A very different demographic though, it doesnt have a land link with another country and is about 2500 miles from the nearest one not 22 miles and is not a world international hub so its much easier to isolate.Its also about 10% larger than the uk with about 63 million less people .
I wold hazard a guess that they are also not getting 8000 untested people arriving illegally every year either.
Its impossible to compare the 2 countries.
So the UK isn't a sovereign nation with the power to close its borders and handle a few thousand irregular migrations?
I thought it was a great and mighty nation. And that Brexit meant sovereignty.
Honestly people, be honest with yourselves. The UK has phenomenonally fucked this up.All countries have the power to do that yet they seem to have the same problem. I am very pleased that NZ managed so well but as i said more down to demographics population and the fact most imports come by boat.
So the UK could have closed the border?
Does the UK not have the intellect to come up with an alternative system for importation during a crisis, or the manpower to implement it?Unfortunatly it came to close to brexit and the uk is to reliant on goods coming across from France and to answer your question no .
So any measures to enforce border hygeine into the UK are utterly impossible because of a brexit based on controlling our borders, which we cannot do because of brexit, and because of reliance on goods coming from Europe which we have brexited from because we cannot do without Europe?
Also it is too large an intellectual challenge to come up with a plan such as large lorry parks near the channel crossing points where lorry trailers could be unhooked and switched to cabs from the receiving country, and the foreign cabs could pick up trailers to take back to the continent, all without foreign drivers ever getting out of their cabs on uk soil. If only we had some large lorry parks like that, which would also be useful points for performing customs checks and the like. No doubt that is also physically impossible because brexit.
How useful to be able to blame piss poor response to covid on brexit, and to be able to blame all economic losses of brexit on covid. Of course as these events happened under the watch of two different governments, we will never be able to determine whether all of the woes of the country for the next 20 years are due to the problems caused by the brexit of the tory government under Boris Johnson, or due to the impossible job of managing covid that was inherited by the tory government under Alexander Johnson because of the poor brexit arrangements of Boris Johnson..."
Interesting you only pick up on one point and totally disregard the others.Yes im sure this could have been implemented over time but personally i think there would have been a national outcry when the shops were empty of food and medicines during the time it took suppliers to implement it.
The point i was making to the other poster is that the uk supply chain is totally different from the NZ one and if im wrong please point out where. |
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"Smallpox is far less infectious than influenza, and we know SARS-CoV-2 is far MORE infectious than flu. The herd immunity required to stave off smallpox vs this virus is very, very different. Also the mechanics of spread and the nature of modern mass transportation, very densely populated areas etc etc make it very much more difficult eradicate SARS-CoV-2 compared to smallpox, unfortunately.
Oh it wouldn't be easy. But I can dream. New Zealand basically eradicated it.
New Zealand never let it get a foothold. Problem is they can’t sustain a quarantine wall on everyone entering forever.... Covid will be with us for a very long time. It is easily transmitted and the human bodies immune response to either infection or vaccination is quite short lived and not 100% effective. Even if we pull case numbers right down there will always be a background pool of infected from which it will again break out
And they can vaccinate rather than letting it rip. What an excellent position to be in.
NZ are far behind us in vaccination. Everyone over 18 here should now have had the opportunity for at least one vaccination... so it is us that have vaccinated before letting it rip!
The UK has let it rip throughout and has had one of the worst responses in the world. And are now really letting it rip before most of the under 40s are fully protected.
New Zealand suppressed it and has suffered almost no death, disability, or lockdown.
If you adjust for population, if NZ had had a death rate like the UK, 9900 Kiwis would have died.
Let me remind you that their death toll stands at *twenty six*.
There are two points here..
1) NZ was fortunate and had the luxury of isolating itself before the virus got a foothold. We could and hindsight shows we should have done more sooner to prevent importing new cases but even in early feb 2020 we had enough domestic transmission already occurring that eradication was already impossible.
2) it’s now unavoidable that almost everyone is going to catch it at some point. We are further into that process. NZ will eventually have to choose between letting covid rip in a largely vaccinated population, as we are now, or keeping itself isolated for ever!
New Zealand had intelligent leadership and did the right thing, while the UK refused to do so at every stage.
New Zealand can live normal lives in isolation without Covid, and have done for about a year now.
New Zealand can vaccinate before letting Covid in. And can watch and learn from our mistakes because they're not in an emergency.
I'm sure all the dead Brits are grateful for the vaccine program though. Christ, you could be alive and well waiting for a vaccine in New Zealand. How awful.A very different demographic though, it doesnt have a land link with another country and is about 2500 miles from the nearest one not 22 miles and is not a world international hub so its much easier to isolate.Its also about 10% larger than the uk with about 63 million less people .
I wold hazard a guess that they are also not getting 8000 untested people arriving illegally every year either.
Its impossible to compare the 2 countries.
So the UK isn't a sovereign nation with the power to close its borders and handle a few thousand irregular migrations?
I thought it was a great and mighty nation. And that Brexit meant sovereignty.
Honestly people, be honest with yourselves. The UK has phenomenonally fucked this up.All countries have the power to do that yet they seem to have the same problem. I am very pleased that NZ managed so well but as i said more down to demographics population and the fact most imports come by boat.
So the UK could have closed the border?
Does the UK not have the intellect to come up with an alternative system for importation during a crisis, or the manpower to implement it?Unfortunatly it came to close to brexit and the uk is to reliant on goods coming across from France and to answer your question no .
So any measures to enforce border hygeine into the UK are utterly impossible because of a brexit based on controlling our borders, which we cannot do because of brexit, and because of reliance on goods coming from Europe which we have brexited from because we cannot do without Europe?
Also it is too large an intellectual challenge to come up with a plan such as large lorry parks near the channel crossing points where lorry trailers could be unhooked and switched to cabs from the receiving country, and the foreign cabs could pick up trailers to take back to the continent, all without foreign drivers ever getting out of their cabs on uk soil. If only we had some large lorry parks like that, which would also be useful points for performing customs checks and the like. No doubt that is also physically impossible because brexit.
How useful to be able to blame piss poor response to covid on brexit, and to be able to blame all economic losses of brexit on covid. Of course as these events happened under the watch of two different governments, we will never be able to determine whether all of the woes of the country for the next 20 years are due to the problems caused by the brexit of the tory government under Boris Johnson, or due to the impossible job of managing covid that was inherited by the tory government under Alexander Johnson because of the poor brexit arrangements of Boris Johnson..."
Surely you must have realised now that absolutely nothing is boris johnsons fault?
Schoolboy error that
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"Smallpox is far less infectious than influenza, and we know SARS-CoV-2 is far MORE infectious than flu. The herd immunity required to stave off smallpox vs this virus is very, very different. Also the mechanics of spread and the nature of modern mass transportation, very densely populated areas etc etc make it very much more difficult eradicate SARS-CoV-2 compared to smallpox, unfortunately.
Oh it wouldn't be easy. But I can dream. New Zealand basically eradicated it.
New Zealand never let it get a foothold. Problem is they can’t sustain a quarantine wall on everyone entering forever.... Covid will be with us for a very long time. It is easily transmitted and the human bodies immune response to either infection or vaccination is quite short lived and not 100% effective. Even if we pull case numbers right down there will always be a background pool of infected from which it will again break out
And they can vaccinate rather than letting it rip. What an excellent position to be in.
NZ are far behind us in vaccination. Everyone over 18 here should now have had the opportunity for at least one vaccination... so it is us that have vaccinated before letting it rip!
The UK has let it rip throughout and has had one of the worst responses in the world. And are now really letting it rip before most of the under 40s are fully protected.
New Zealand suppressed it and has suffered almost no death, disability, or lockdown.
If you adjust for population, if NZ had had a death rate like the UK, 9900 Kiwis would have died.
Let me remind you that their death toll stands at *twenty six*.
There are two points here..
1) NZ was fortunate and had the luxury of isolating itself before the virus got a foothold. We could and hindsight shows we should have done more sooner to prevent importing new cases but even in early feb 2020 we had enough domestic transmission already occurring that eradication was already impossible.
2) it’s now unavoidable that almost everyone is going to catch it at some point. We are further into that process. NZ will eventually have to choose between letting covid rip in a largely vaccinated population, as we are now, or keeping itself isolated for ever!
New Zealand had intelligent leadership and did the right thing, while the UK refused to do so at every stage.
New Zealand can live normal lives in isolation without Covid, and have done for about a year now.
New Zealand can vaccinate before letting Covid in. And can watch and learn from our mistakes because they're not in an emergency.
I'm sure all the dead Brits are grateful for the vaccine program though. Christ, you could be alive and well waiting for a vaccine in New Zealand. How awful.A very different demographic though, it doesnt have a land link with another country and is about 2500 miles from the nearest one not 22 miles and is not a world international hub so its much easier to isolate.Its also about 10% larger than the uk with about 63 million less people .
I wold hazard a guess that they are also not getting 8000 untested people arriving illegally every year either.
Its impossible to compare the 2 countries. "
Nah
We just have a unique (in the world)set of circumstances which have led us to this place.
No other country in the world has an aging/overweight/bame/disobedient population apparently
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Small pox like ebola is a victim of it's own "success" it kills you far too quickly and the victim is far too unwell to travel far.
Obviously it's very nasty and you die a particularly nasty death which is why people seemed to have little problem getting vaccinated.
But with COvid because they see the stats versus a sore arm then they seem to think sod it I'll take my chances. |
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"Smallpox is far less infectious than influenza, and we know SARS-CoV-2 is far MORE infectious than flu. The herd immunity required to stave off smallpox vs this virus is very, very different. Also the mechanics of spread and the nature of modern mass transportation, very densely populated areas etc etc make it very much more difficult eradicate SARS-CoV-2 compared to smallpox, unfortunately.
Oh it wouldn't be easy. But I can dream. New Zealand basically eradicated it.
New Zealand never let it get a foothold. Problem is they can’t sustain a quarantine wall on everyone entering forever.... Covid will be with us for a very long time. It is easily transmitted and the human bodies immune response to either infection or vaccination is quite short lived and not 100% effective. Even if we pull case numbers right down there will always be a background pool of infected from which it will again break out
And they can vaccinate rather than letting it rip. What an excellent position to be in.
NZ are far behind us in vaccination. Everyone over 18 here should now have had the opportunity for at least one vaccination... so it is us that have vaccinated before letting it rip!
The UK has let it rip throughout and has had one of the worst responses in the world. And are now really letting it rip before most of the under 40s are fully protected.
New Zealand suppressed it and has suffered almost no death, disability, or lockdown.
If you adjust for population, if NZ had had a death rate like the UK, 9900 Kiwis would have died.
Let me remind you that their death toll stands at *twenty six*.
There are two points here..
1) NZ was fortunate and had the luxury of isolating itself before the virus got a foothold. We could and hindsight shows we should have done more sooner to prevent importing new cases but even in early feb 2020 we had enough domestic transmission already occurring that eradication was already impossible.
2) it’s now unavoidable that almost everyone is going to catch it at some point. We are further into that process. NZ will eventually have to choose between letting covid rip in a largely vaccinated population, as we are now, or keeping itself isolated for ever!
New Zealand had intelligent leadership and did the right thing, while the UK refused to do so at every stage.
New Zealand can live normal lives in isolation without Covid, and have done for about a year now.
New Zealand can vaccinate before letting Covid in. And can watch and learn from our mistakes because they're not in an emergency.
I'm sure all the dead Brits are grateful for the vaccine program though. Christ, you could be alive and well waiting for a vaccine in New Zealand. How awful."
Sorry but we were in a very different position to NZ from the off. We would have needed to lockdown boarders in January and nobody on earth was calling for such drastic action at the point when it might have worked! |
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"Smallpox vaccine was made from an actual virus, covid is not. There is no comparison
What do you think the Covid vaccines are made from, exactly?"
Well are we going to have an in depth discussion about mRNA perhaps?!
Lots of different vaccines, mRNA is just the most advanced, and most importantly easiest to change when the virus mutates.
And know it doesn't change your DNA or any other bollocks like that that the antivaxxers claim. |
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"Smallpox vaccine was made from an actual virus, covid is not. There is no comparison
What do you think the Covid vaccines are made from, exactly?
Well are we going to have an in depth discussion about mRNA perhaps?!
Lots of different vaccines, mRNA is just the most advanced, and most importantly easiest to change when the virus mutates.
And know it doesn't change your DNA or any other bollocks like that that the antivaxxers claim."
I've got my "what's mRNA and other FabFacts" lesson plan at my fingertips
Actually, my lesson tomorrow is on virus structure and an intro the vaccine design, with a focus on the Pfizer-BioNTech because I want them to apply the principles of transcription and translation |
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"Smallpox vaccine was made from an actual virus, covid is not. There is no comparison
What do you think the Covid vaccines are made from, exactly?
Well are we going to have an in depth discussion about mRNA perhaps?!
Lots of different vaccines, mRNA is just the most advanced, and most importantly easiest to change when the virus mutates.
And know it doesn't change your DNA or any other bollocks like that that the antivaxxers claim.
I've got my "what's mRNA and other FabFacts" lesson plan at my fingertips
Actually, my lesson tomorrow is on virus structure and an intro the vaccine design, with a focus on the Pfizer-BioNTech because I want them to apply the principles of transcription and translation "
Oooft. Hot  |
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"Smallpox vaccine was made from an actual virus, covid is not. There is no comparison
What do you think the Covid vaccines are made from, exactly?
Well are we going to have an in depth discussion about mRNA perhaps?!
Lots of different vaccines, mRNA is just the most advanced, and most importantly easiest to change when the virus mutates.
And know it doesn't change your DNA or any other bollocks like that that the antivaxxers claim.
I've got my "what's mRNA and other FabFacts" lesson plan at my fingertips
Actually, my lesson tomorrow is on virus structure and an intro the vaccine design, with a focus on the Pfizer-BioNTech because I want them to apply the principles of transcription and translation "
Excellent!
And amazingly very little has changed since I studied medical microbiology in the 90s.
It's as if think it's all new, it's not. |
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"Smallpox vaccine was made from an actual virus, covid is not. There is no comparison
What do you think the Covid vaccines are made from, exactly?
Well are we going to have an in depth discussion about mRNA perhaps?!
Lots of different vaccines, mRNA is just the most advanced, and most importantly easiest to change when the virus mutates.
And know it doesn't change your DNA or any other bollocks like that that the antivaxxers claim.
I've got my "what's mRNA and other FabFacts" lesson plan at my fingertips
Actually, my lesson tomorrow is on virus structure and an intro the vaccine design, with a focus on the Pfizer-BioNTech because I want them to apply the principles of transcription and translation
Excellent!
And amazingly very little has changed since I studied medical microbiology in the 90s.
It's as if think it's all new, it's not."
I studied micro in the early 2000s |
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"Smallpox vaccine was made from an actual virus, covid is not. There is no comparison
What do you think the Covid vaccines are made from, exactly?
Well are we going to have an in depth discussion about mRNA perhaps?!
Lots of different vaccines, mRNA is just the most advanced, and most importantly easiest to change when the virus mutates.
And know it doesn't change your DNA or any other bollocks like that that the antivaxxers claim.
I've got my "what's mRNA and other FabFacts" lesson plan at my fingertips
Actually, my lesson tomorrow is on virus structure and an intro the vaccine design, with a focus on the Pfizer-BioNTech because I want them to apply the principles of transcription and translation
Oooft. Hot "
 |
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"Smallpox vaccine was made from an actual virus, covid is not. There is no comparison
What do you think the Covid vaccines are made from, exactly?
Well are we going to have an in depth discussion about mRNA perhaps?!
Lots of different vaccines, mRNA is just the most advanced, and most importantly easiest to change when the virus mutates.
And know it doesn't change your DNA or any other bollocks like that that the antivaxxers claim.
I've got my "what's mRNA and other FabFacts" lesson plan at my fingertips
Actually, my lesson tomorrow is on virus structure and an intro the vaccine design, with a focus on the Pfizer-BioNTech because I want them to apply the principles of transcription and translation
Excellent!
And amazingly very little has changed since I studied medical microbiology in the 90s.
It's as if think it's all new, it's not.
I studied micro in the early 2000s "
Spent most of the time looking at poo samples in agar jelly... |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
Ahhh the "but New Zealand is different to us so you can't possibly compare em to us" defenders.
I think it's more the case that certain people don't want to compare New Zeland to us because they did far, far, far better than us with the pandemic. |
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"Ahhh the "but New Zealand is different to us so you can't possibly compare em to us" defenders.
I think it's more the case that certain people don't want to compare New Zeland to us because they did far, far, far better than us with the pandemic."
No. NZ got lucky, they got to see what was necessary before it was too late. By the time the severity of the virus was starting to become apparent we already had a very large pool of infection and domestic transmission, numbers far beyond what we could eradicate through lockdown measures in a free society. |
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"Smallpox was an awful disease. Through science and a global vaccination program, we eradicated it.
Could we one day do the same with Covid?"
nope two totally different things and covid spreads mutates at a far higher rate. In actually fact science already knows that mass vaccination is and will continue to generate further and worse strains of covid. We are now just in a race to try and keep up with them |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Smallpox was an awful disease. Through science and a global vaccination program, we eradicated it.
Could we one day do the same with Covid? nope two totally different things and covid spreads mutates at a far higher rate. In actually fact science already knows that mass vaccination is and will continue to generate further and worse strains of covid. We are now just in a race to try and keep up with them "
Science knows that a mass pandemic is the best way to generate variants of the original virus. vaccination, not so much. In any case, the sars-cov-2 virus, along with other long chain rna virus, have an error-check ability, so evolution is much slower than it would otherwise be. |
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"Ahhh the "but New Zealand is different to us so you can't possibly compare em to us" defenders.
I think it's more the case that certain people don't want to compare New Zeland to us because they did far, far, far better than us with the pandemic.
No. NZ got lucky, they got to see what was necessary before it was too late. By the time the severity of the virus was starting to become apparent we already had a very large pool of infection and domestic transmission, numbers far beyond what we could eradicate through lockdown measures in a free society."
Good rewrite of history. We literally stood watching for a couple of months as it spread from china, around asia, into europe, through italy, through spain, and to us. We did fuck all even while hospitals were overflowing in italy. Over a year later we started a haphazard quarantine, but let thousands walk in from india because bozo wanted a trade opportunity. Now apparently the border guards have been told to not even bother asking people where they are coming from.
NZ didn't get lucky, NZ just had intelligent and responsible government that actually took note of foreign events, consulted real experts and did the sensible thing.
From a BBC news article published last July:
"When did New Zealand bring in border closures?
On 2 February, a man in the Philippines became the first person outside China to die of Covid-19.
At this point, there were no reported cases in New Zealand, but the next day, the country began banning entry to any foreigner coming from or via China. Any New Zealander returning from China had to isolate for 14 days."
NZ started border control after one single person outside china had died! We did absolutely nothing even when thousands were dying in Europe.
NZ were not lucky, they were intelligent. WE were unlucky, in having the worst, stupidest, most venal prime minister and cabinet since parliament was first created. |
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"Smallpox is far less infectious than influenza, and we know SARS-CoV-2 is far MORE infectious than flu. The herd immunity required to stave off smallpox vs this virus is very, very different. Also the mechanics of spread and the nature of modern mass transportation, very densely populated areas etc etc make it very much more difficult eradicate SARS-CoV-2 compared to smallpox, unfortunately.
Oh it wouldn't be easy. But I can dream. New Zealand basically eradicated it.
But they haven't really. They've put up physical barriers, effectively, by shutting down and stopping travel. Their population is massively susceptible and it would kick off big time if a couple of asymptomatic spreaders got through. They've had several cases of spread from quarantinees to staff - that just shows that in the face of very stringent measures to prevent people interacting, this virus still gets through. Unless NZ and others step up with vaccines, the second they reopen borders etc, it will take hold. Almost their entire population is susceptible....."
Exactly, look what is happening in Australia. If they don’t get their population vaccinated Australia and New Zealand are going to have to cut themselves off from the rest of the world for a very long time. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Ahhh the "but New Zealand is different to us so you can't possibly compare em to us" defenders.
I think it's more the case that certain people don't want to compare New Zeland to us because they did far, far, far better than us with the pandemic.
No. NZ got lucky, they got to see what was necessary before it was too late. By the time the severity of the virus was starting to become apparent we already had a very large pool of infection and domestic transmission, numbers far beyond what we could eradicate through lockdown measures in a free society.
Good rewrite of history. We literally stood watching for a couple of months as it spread from china, around asia, into europe, through italy, through spain, and to us. We did fuck all even while hospitals were overflowing in italy. Over a year later we started a haphazard quarantine, but let thousands walk in from india because bozo wanted a trade opportunity. Now apparently the border guards have been told to not even bother asking people where they are coming from.
NZ didn't get lucky, NZ just had intelligent and responsible government that actually took note of foreign events, consulted real experts and did the sensible thing.
From a BBC news article published last July:
"When did New Zealand bring in border closures?
On 2 February, a man in the Philippines became the first person outside China to die of Covid-19.
At this point, there were no reported cases in New Zealand, but the next day, the country began banning entry to any foreigner coming from or via China. Any New Zealander returning from China had to isolate for 14 days."
NZ started border control after one single person outside china had died! We did absolutely nothing even when thousands were dying in Europe.
NZ were not lucky, they were intelligent. WE were unlucky, in having the worst, stupidest, most venal prime minister and cabinet since parliament was first created."
Yup, pretty much.
Except Johnson isn't stupid. He's simply lazy, entitled, self-centred, arrogant, corrupt and utterly uncaring about human life when it comes to anybody who isn't called Boris Johnson. |
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Fingers crossed we don't get any signal for ADE on the current vaccines otherwise it could set vaccine confidence back decades!.
But to be fair I guess we're all in a giant experiment anyhow, it's just a risk this way or that but one things for sure, we really need to get a handle on gain of function research because I'm pretty sure the bad guys everywhere are looking at this and thinking mmmmm it looks a damn site easier than bombs and a whole lot more effective. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'd be interested to hear how the mad "cow"spiracy theory was countered. We desperately need counters to conspiracy theories today.
Laws making it mandatory, would be my guess. Like actually mandatory for everyone. Not restrictions on venues or jobs.
The UK had the first vaccine mandate in history.
They'll never do that for Covid here. And they probably should.
I suspect that we'll see a cultural shift on vaccination. Whether it goes that far, I don't know.
I really doubt we'll ever get to mandated Covid vaccines. There are too many loud voices screaming too loudly against such things."
Because they shouldn't be.
Too many of you live in the now and never think how this legislation could be used in the future. Like we have seen with other legislation brought in years ago that is now being used for stuff it was never meant for. Brought in the first place because people are scared, Patriot act in the US, or the misuse of the terrorism act here for example
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Because they shouldn't be.
Too many of you live in the now and never think how this legislation could be used in the future. Like we have seen with other legislation brought in years ago that is now being used for stuff it was never meant for. Brought in the first place because people are scared, Patriot act in the US, or the misuse of the terrorism act here for example
"
Misuse?
More like intentional.
The people that write legislation are quite adept at writing it so that it can be interpreted by enforcers whichever way they want.
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"I'd be interested to hear how the mad "cow"spiracy theory was countered. We desperately need counters to conspiracy theories today.
Laws making it mandatory, would be my guess. Like actually mandatory for everyone. Not restrictions on venues or jobs.
The UK had the first vaccine mandate in history.
They'll never do that for Covid here. And they probably should.
I suspect that we'll see a cultural shift on vaccination. Whether it goes that far, I don't know.
I really doubt we'll ever get to mandated Covid vaccines. There are too many loud voices screaming too loudly against such things.
Because they shouldn't be.
Too many of you live in the now and never think how this legislation could be used in the future. Like we have seen with other legislation brought in years ago that is now being used for stuff it was never meant for. Brought in the first place because people are scared, Patriot act in the US, or the misuse of the terrorism act here for example
"
So laws that might be underpinned by fear and/or can be abused should be abolished or not brought into place?
Ok
*Control alt delete*
Do you wish you permanently delete all laws?
Do you wish to abolish parliamentary sovereignty?
Press yes to continue and restore to factory default anarchy |
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