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Double vaxxed - died of covid
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"https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated Guardian still spinning this as hard as they can however the stats are 13th June: 29% out of the 42 people had been double vaxx (died of covid) 25th June: 50 / 117 (dead through covid) with 60% been vaxxed What started as a vax the over 70's to protect them has morphed into 50 % of the under 30 population of UK now having taken a vax " No it never started as a avax to protect the over 70s. From the very beginning they were talking about the achieving a wall of protection. Ignoring this is spinning too. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated Guardian still spinning this as hard as they can however the stats are 13th June: 29% out of the 42 people had been double vaxx (died of covid) 25th June: 50 / 117 (dead through covid) with 60% been vaxxed What started as a vax the over 70's to protect them has morphed into 50 % of the under 30 population of UK now having taken a vax " The thing with this data is that it doesn't really tell us much. We already know that the vaccines are not 100% effective. The data tells us nothing about how many people didn't get infected, or only had mild symptoms, or had serious symptoms but survived. It seems like a "sensational" narrative to push. Cal | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated Guardian still spinning this as hard as they can however the stats are 13th June: 29% out of the 42 people had been double vaxx (died of covid) 25th June: 50 / 117 (dead through covid) with 60% been vaxxed What started as a vax the over 70's to protect them has morphed into 50 % of the under 30 population of UK now having taken a vax No it never started as a avax to protect the over 70s. From the very beginning they were talking about the achieving a wall of protection. Ignoring this is spinning too." False It was always about protected the 75 plus / vulnerable/ care homes as these were the ones it affected, not the under 60 / 50 / 40 /30 and certainly kids Don't lie, it does not help with debate | |||
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"I think people who have had covid should be exempt ,as the best defence has always been natural immunity, But they will also be forced to take it thus stripping any plasma from them that could be used to save a life " I heard mention of a study recently, admittedly only a very small one so preliminary, that suggested that case fatality rate for reinfection with Covid was about 3%, so higher than first infection. And plasma isn't recommended in favour of monoclonals, I believe. (At least that's true in the US, I get a lot of US virus material) | |||
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"I think people who have had covid should be exempt ,as the best defence has always been natural immunity, But they will also be forced to take it thus stripping any plasma from them that could be used to save a life " How does taking a vaccine strip you of plasma?! And if referring to convalescent plasma donation, this was experimental and shown to be of no benefit. The NHS has stopped taking donations and it is not being used. Some studies actually observed detrimental impacts to the use of convalescent plasma, including blood clots being more frequent. By the way, I volunteered to donate to the plasma studies (but was rejected for having wee-dy veins), so personally was supportive of the efforts to research it. Article to look for: From: The Lancet Title: Convalescent plasma in patients hospitalised with COVID-19 Authors: Sean T H Liu and Judith A Aberg Published: May 14, 2021 | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated Guardian still spinning this as hard as they can however the stats are 13th June: 29% out of the 42 people had been double vaxx (died of covid) 25th June: 50 / 117 (dead through covid) with 60% been vaxxed What started as a vax the over 70's to protect them has morphed into 50 % of the under 30 population of UK now having taken a vax " A good friend of mine died in a car crash, and he was wearing a seatbelt  | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated Guardian still spinning this as hard as they can however the stats are 13th June: 29% out of the 42 people had been double vaxx (died of covid) 25th June: 50 / 117 (dead through covid) with 60% been vaxxed What started as a vax the over 70's to protect them has morphed into 50 % of the under 30 population of UK now having taken a vax No it never started as a avax to protect the over 70s. From the very beginning they were talking about the achieving a wall of protection. Ignoring this is spinning too. False It was always about protected the 75 plus / vulnerable/ care homes as these were the ones it affected, not the under 60 / 50 / 40 /30 and certainly kids Don't lie, it does not help with debate " The JCVI said immediately upon the approval of the Pfizer vaccine that we'd be attempting to vaccinate as many of the adult population as possible, starting with the most vulnerable, so they created the 9 vulnerable categories and we started with group 1 (over 80s and healthcare workers) and moved down to group 9 (50-59s). The JCVI then decided we should continue to work down the age groups, rather than target occupational groups, as other countries have done. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated Guardian still spinning this as hard as they can however the stats are 13th June: 29% out of the 42 people had been double vaxx (died of covid) 25th June: 50 / 117 (dead through covid) with 60% been vaxxed What started as a vax the over 70's to protect them has morphed into 50 % of the under 30 population of UK now having taken a vax No it never started as a avax to protect the over 70s. From the very beginning they were talking about the achieving a wall of protection. Ignoring this is spinning too. False It was always about protected the 75 plus / vulnerable/ care homes as these were the ones it affected, not the under 60 / 50 / 40 /30 and certainly kids Don't lie, it does not help with debate " Dated Dec 7, 2020. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/07/uk-to-rollout-covid-vaccine-tuesday.html An 81-year-old man named William Shakespeare became the second person to get the vaccine. He was inoculated in Coventry. “No, no, not nervous at all,” said Shakespeare, who lives in Warwickshire. “I’m very apprehensive about the side effects ... but there’s a small chance of that.” Now, the vaccine will be given to front-line health workers, nursing home workers and those ages over 80, before it is given more widely among the U.K. population. From the beginning the plan was for the vaccine to be administered widely among the UK. You can provide news articles from reliable sources (that is not youtube, fb etc) at the beginning of the vaccination back in December 2020 that support what you say. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated Guardian still spinning this as hard as they can however the stats are 13th June: 29% out of the 42 people had been double vaxx (died of covid) 25th June: 50 / 117 (dead through covid) with 60% been vaxxed What started as a vax the over 70's to protect them has morphed into 50 % of the under 30 population of UK now having taken a vax No it never started as a avax to protect the over 70s. From the very beginning they were talking about the achieving a wall of protection. Ignoring this is spinning too. False It was always about protected the 75 plus / vulnerable/ care homes as these were the ones it affected, not the under 60 / 50 / 40 /30 and certainly kids Don't lie, it does not help with debate " https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/priority-groups-for-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-advice-from-the-jcvi-2-december-2020/priority-groups-for-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-advice-from-the-jcvi-2-december-2020 This document from the end of 2020 suggests that the thinking then was to vaccinate high risk/exposure careers early on. Taking from the list on this very government site, how many in the following professions are over 75? "First responders, the military, those involved in the justice system, teachers, transport workers, public servants essential to the pandemic response." | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated Guardian still spinning this as hard as they can however the stats are 13th June: 29% out of the 42 people had been double vaxx (died of covid) 25th June: 50 / 117 (dead through covid) with 60% been vaxxed What started as a vax the over 70's to protect them has morphed into 50 % of the under 30 population of UK now having taken a vax No it never started as a avax to protect the over 70s. From the very beginning they were talking about the achieving a wall of protection. Ignoring this is spinning too. False It was always about protected the 75 plus / vulnerable/ care homes as these were the ones it affected, not the under 60 / 50 / 40 /30 and certainly kids Don't lie, it does not help with debate The JCVI said immediately upon the approval of the Pfizer vaccine that we'd be attempting to vaccinate as many of the adult population as possible, starting with the most vulnerable, so they created the 9 vulnerable categories and we started with group 1 (over 80s and healthcare workers) and moved down to group 9 (50-59s). The JCVI then decided we should continue to work down the age groups, rather than target occupational groups, as other countries have done." To add to my comment above: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-covid-19-vaccines-delivery-plan/uk-covid-19-vaccines-delivery-plan | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated Guardian still spinning this as hard as they can however the stats are 13th June: 29% out of the 42 people had been double vaxx (died of covid) 25th June: 50 / 117 (dead through covid) with 60% been vaxxed What started as a vax the over 70's to protect them has morphed into 50 % of the under 30 population of UK now having taken a vax No it never started as a avax to protect the over 70s. From the very beginning they were talking about the achieving a wall of protection. Ignoring this is spinning too. False It was always about protected the 75 plus / vulnerable/ care homes as these were the ones it affected, not the under 60 / 50 / 40 /30 and certainly kids Don't lie, it does not help with debate " To accuse others of lying when you've quoted something so wrong is a tad ironic.. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated Guardian still spinning this as hard as they can however the stats are 13th June: 29% out of the 42 people had been double vaxx (died of covid) 25th June: 50 / 117 (dead through covid) with 60% been vaxxed What started as a vax the over 70's to protect them has morphed into 50 % of the under 30 population of UK now having taken a vax No it never started as a avax to protect the over 70s. From the very beginning they were talking about the achieving a wall of protection. Ignoring this is spinning too. False It was always about protected the 75 plus / vulnerable/ care homes as these were the ones it affected, not the under 60 / 50 / 40 /30 and certainly kids Don't lie, it does not help with debate " Sorry but you're wrong. Every "rollout" schedule that the government published (from november) stated that it would start with over 80's, healthcare workers & Vulnerable, and then progress incrementally through the adult population. Cal | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated Guardian still spinning this as hard as they can however the stats are 13th June: 29% out of the 42 people had been double vaxx (died of covid) 25th June: 50 / 117 (dead through covid) with 60% been vaxxed What started as a vax the over 70's to protect them has morphed into 50 % of the under 30 population of UK now having taken a vax No it never started as a avax to protect the over 70s. From the very beginning they were talking about the achieving a wall of protection. Ignoring this is spinning too. False It was always about protected the 75 plus / vulnerable/ care homes as these were the ones it affected, not the under 60 / 50 / 40 /30 and certainly kids Don't lie, it does not help with debate " It certainly helps with the debate but it does not help towards the direction you try to spin it. You used the words spin, false and lies, not me. | |||
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"The problem with these threads…. Everyones a bleedin expert with expert opinions…..lets all hide for another 24 months so…. In my expert opinion…." You don't need to be an expert, just have basic research skills and a modicum of common sense. Everyone wants things to get back to normal, we just have differing opinions as to when the risk is low enough. Cal | |||
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"The problem with these threads…. Everyones a bleedin expert with expert opinions…..lets all hide for another 24 months so…. In my expert opinion…. You don't need to be an expert, just have basic research skills and a modicum of common sense. Everyone wants things to get back to normal, we just have differing opinions as to when the risk is low enough. Cal" My search was 'vaccine rollout 2020'. As in, I was hoping for a document from 2020 indicating the proposals at that time. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated Guardian still spinning this as hard as they can however the stats are Can't say much more.. 13th June: 29% out of the 42 people had been double vaxx (died of covid) 25th June: 50 / 117 (dead through covid) with 60% been vaxxed What started as a vax the over 70's to protect them has morphed into 50 % of the under 30 population of UK now having taken a vax A good friend of mine died in a car crash, and he was wearing a seatbelt " | |||
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"I think people who have had covid should be exempt ,as the best defence has always been natural immunity, But they will also be forced to take it thus stripping any plasma from them that could be used to save a life " I think this was already debunked as it turned out the antibodies only lasted three months or so. I think the vaccines induce a much stronger immune response. They don't know how long protection will last but if you can get away with just one annual booster, that's already better than just recovering naturally. | |||
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"1) the plan has always been to vaccinate the adult population 2) vaccination helps reduce spread and so helps reduce opportunities for mutation 3) the only way the pandemic ends is when either the virus mutates and the dominant strain is less virulent and serious OR we reach effective herd immunity through vaccinations 4) being "exempt" because you have already had the virus implies the vaccine is compulsory - which it isn't 5) we dont know if the vaccine outperforms protection achieved from a previous infection but why wait to find out? " Of course having natural immunity always is better than a manufacturered one, don't be so naive. | |||
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"1) the plan has always been to vaccinate the adult population 2) vaccination helps reduce spread and so helps reduce opportunities for mutation 3) the only way the pandemic ends is when either the virus mutates and the dominant strain is less virulent and serious OR we reach effective herd immunity through vaccinations 4) being "exempt" because you have already had the virus implies the vaccine is compulsory - which it isn't 5) we dont know if the vaccine outperforms protection achieved from a previous infection but why wait to find out? Of course having natural immunity always is better than a manufacturered one, don't be so naive. " How do you know that, and on what data do you base that claim? | |||
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"I think people who have had covid should be exempt ,as the best defence has always been natural immunity, But they will also be forced to take it thus stripping any plasma from them that could be used to save a life I think this was already debunked as it turned out the antibodies only lasted three months or so. I think the vaccines induce a much stronger immune response. They don't know how long protection will last but if you can get away with just one annual booster, that's already better than just recovering naturally." It was never debunked One paper does not make it debunked If so you could point to studies that show with some viruses immunity has been known to last 16 years | |||
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"1) the plan has always been to vaccinate the adult population 2) vaccination helps reduce spread and so helps reduce opportunities for mutation 3) the only way the pandemic ends is when either the virus mutates and the dominant strain is less virulent and serious OR we reach effective herd immunity through vaccinations 4) being "exempt" because you have already had the virus implies the vaccine is compulsory - which it isn't 5) we dont know if the vaccine outperforms protection achieved from a previous infection but why wait to find out? Of course having natural immunity always is better than a manufacturered one, don't be so naive. How do you know that, and on what data do you base that claim?" So a manufactured vax is better then natural immunity ? | |||
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"1) the plan has always been to vaccinate the adult population 2) vaccination helps reduce spread and so helps reduce opportunities for mutation 3) the only way the pandemic ends is when either the virus mutates and the dominant strain is less virulent and serious OR we reach effective herd immunity through vaccinations 4) being "exempt" because you have already had the virus implies the vaccine is compulsory - which it isn't 5) we dont know if the vaccine outperforms protection achieved from a previous infection but why wait to find out? Of course having natural immunity always is better than a manufacturered one, don't be so naive. " The immunity is created naturally by your immune system. The only difference is the vaccine shows a "pretend" virus rather than the real one. Cal | |||
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"Sorry but you're wrong. Every "rollout" schedule that the government published (from november) stated that it would start with over 80's, healthcare workers & Vulnerable, and then progress incrementally through the adult population. Cal" This. Didn't have time to do much digging but this is from 11/20: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54873105 Long story short, what Cal said. | |||
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"1) the plan has always been to vaccinate the adult population 2) vaccination helps reduce spread and so helps reduce opportunities for mutation 3) the only way the pandemic ends is when either the virus mutates and the dominant strain is less virulent and serious OR we reach effective herd immunity through vaccinations 4) being "exempt" because you have already had the virus implies the vaccine is compulsory - which it isn't 5) we dont know if the vaccine outperforms protection achieved from a previous infection but why wait to find out? Of course having natural immunity always is better than a manufacturered one, don't be so naive. How do you know that, and on what data do you base that claim? So a manufactured vax is better then natural immunity ? " In some cases it may well be. Take the HPV vaccine. Sterilising immunity, permanent. Bonus, no cancer from that particular stuff. Covid, don't know, but I referred to a paper (I heard about on the most recent This Week in Virology clinical update) that suggests that immunity wanes with Covid and reinfection can be fatal. | |||
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"Sorry but you're wrong. Every "rollout" schedule that the government published (from november) stated that it would start with over 80's, healthcare workers & Vulnerable, and then progress incrementally through the adult population. Cal This. Didn't have time to do much digging but this is from 11/20: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54873105 Long story short, what Cal said. " Bit like 2 weeks to flatten the curve ? It was never about the under 75 but now they will soon be coming for the kids I wonder come October when we go into full lockdown and the entire UK population has had 2 jabs how it will be justified. ? Another variant? Not enough pets had the jab? Babies ? | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sorry but you're wrong. Every "rollout" schedule that the government published (from november) stated that it would start with over 80's, healthcare workers & Vulnerable, and then progress incrementally through the adult population. Cal This. Didn't have time to do much digging but this is from 11/20: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54873105 Long story short, what Cal said. Bit like 2 weeks to flatten the curve ? It was never about the under 75 but now they will soon be coming for the kids I wonder come October when we go into full lockdown and the entire UK population has had 2 jabs how it will be justified. ? Another variant? Not enough pets had the jab? Babies ?" Did you not pay attention to the many links with evidence above, that the plan was always to vaccinate the entire adult population? | |||
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"1) the plan has always been to vaccinate the adult population 2) vaccination helps reduce spread and so helps reduce opportunities for mutation 3) the only way the pandemic ends is when either the virus mutates and the dominant strain is less virulent and serious OR we reach effective herd immunity through vaccinations 4) being "exempt" because you have already had the virus implies the vaccine is compulsory - which it isn't 5) we dont know if the vaccine outperforms protection achieved from a previous infection but why wait to find out? Of course having natural immunity always is better than a manufacturered one, don't be so naive. How do you know that, and on what data do you base that claim? So a manufactured vax is better then natural immunity ? In some cases it may well be. Take the HPV vaccine. Sterilising immunity, permanent. Bonus, no cancer from that particular stuff. Covid, don't know, but I referred to a paper (I heard about on the most recent This Week in Virology clinical update) that suggests that immunity wanes with Covid and reinfection can be fatal." The Hpv vaccine works totally different to a covid based vax. And of course wasn't put together in 3 to 6 months with zero studies | |||
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"Sorry but you're wrong. Every "rollout" schedule that the government published (from november) stated that it would start with over 80's, healthcare workers & Vulnerable, and then progress incrementally through the adult population. Cal This. Didn't have time to do much digging but this is from 11/20: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54873105 Long story short, what Cal said. Bit like 2 weeks to flatten the curve ? It was never about the under 75 but now they will soon be coming for the kids I wonder come October when we go into full lockdown and the entire UK population has had 2 jabs how it will be justified. ? Another variant? Not enough pets had the jab? Babies ? Did you not pay attention to the many links with evidence above, that the plan was always to vaccinate the entire adult population?" It was never the entire population I'm the beginning, that grew when they see how easy it would be ,how compliant people were | |||
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"1) the plan has always been to vaccinate the adult population 2) vaccination helps reduce spread and so helps reduce opportunities for mutation 3) the only way the pandemic ends is when either the virus mutates and the dominant strain is less virulent and serious OR we reach effective herd immunity through vaccinations 4) being "exempt" because you have already had the virus implies the vaccine is compulsory - which it isn't 5) we dont know if the vaccine outperforms protection achieved from a previous infection but why wait to find out? Of course having natural immunity always is better than a manufacturered one, don't be so naive. How do you know that, and on what data do you base that claim? So a manufactured vax is better then natural immunity ? In some cases it may well be. Take the HPV vaccine. Sterilising immunity, permanent. Bonus, no cancer from that particular stuff. Covid, don't know, but I referred to a paper (I heard about on the most recent This Week in Virology clinical update) that suggests that immunity wanes with Covid and reinfection can be fatal. The Hpv vaccine works totally different to a covid based vax. And of course wasn't put together in 3 to 6 months with zero studies " You asked about vaccines. I answered about vaccines. I don't know about the Covid vaccines - they might vary, being different, but I'm not the one making a claim about the superiority of immune response. And you are aware that there were huge global trials for the approved vaccines? Which is why they were approved? | |||
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"I think people who have had covid should be exempt ,as the best defence has always been natural immunity, But they will also be forced to take it thus stripping any plasma from them that could be used to save a life I think this was already debunked as it turned out the antibodies only lasted three months or so. I think the vaccines induce a much stronger immune response. They don't know how long protection will last but if you can get away with just one annual booster, that's already better than just recovering naturally. It was never debunked One paper does not make it debunked If so you could point to studies that show with some viruses immunity has been known to last 16 years " You can't compare vaccines in that manner. I had my Hepatitis A and B vaccines and boosters years ago and by the five year review, my Hep A antibodies were borderline and I had another booster, but my Hep B antibodies were ten times higher than they expect at year five. Different vaccines, different people, different immune responses. You can't do a straight comparison. I probably won't need another Hep B booster for the rest of my life. Even if there's only one study showing that naturally infected people lose their protection after three months, that's one study more than there is saying otherwise and the current consensus is that you'll only need one booster per year. That's a benefit of an additional nine months each year through the artificially stimulated response over taking your chances with your immune system. Could be different though. Some people might become super resistant like I am with Hep B, some might have a low response like I did with Hep A. It's clear at this stage though that vaccines offer longer lasting protection than naturally fighting off the infection. | |||
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"1) the plan has always been to vaccinate the adult population 2) vaccination helps reduce spread and so helps reduce opportunities for mutation 3) the only way the pandemic ends is when either the virus mutates and the dominant strain is less virulent and serious OR we reach effective herd immunity through vaccinations 4) being "exempt" because you have already had the virus implies the vaccine is compulsory - which it isn't 5) we dont know if the vaccine outperforms protection achieved from a previous infection but why wait to find out? Of course having natural immunity always is better than a manufacturered one, don't be so naive. The immunity is created naturally by your immune system. The only difference is the vaccine shows a "pretend" virus rather than the real one. Cal" That is good to know, and if that is the case then the people who can show they have natural immunity, could be treated the same as the double vaccinated as far as covid passports and etc may go. | |||
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"Sorry but you're wrong. Every "rollout" schedule that the government published (from november) stated that it would start with over 80's, healthcare workers & Vulnerable, and then progress incrementally through the adult population. Cal This. Didn't have time to do much digging but this is from 11/20: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54873105 Long story short, what Cal said. Bit like 2 weeks to flatten the curve ? It was never about the under 75 but now they will soon be coming for the kids I wonder come October when we go into full lockdown and the entire UK population has had 2 jabs how it will be justified. ? Another variant? Not enough pets had the jab? Babies ? Did you not pay attention to the many links with evidence above, that the plan was always to vaccinate the entire adult population? It was never the entire population I'm the beginning, that grew when they see how easy it would be ,how compliant people were " Then why does all the evidence we've provided to you say the opposite? | |||
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"Sorry but you're wrong. Every "rollout" schedule that the government published (from november) stated that it would start with over 80's, healthcare workers & Vulnerable, and then progress incrementally through the adult population. Cal This. Didn't have time to do much digging but this is from 11/20: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54873105 Long story short, what Cal said. Bit like 2 weeks to flatten the curve ? It was never about the under 75 but now they will soon be coming for the kids I wonder come October when we go into full lockdown and the entire UK population has had 2 jabs how it will be justified. ? Another variant? Not enough pets had the jab? Babies ? Did you not pay attention to the many links with evidence above, that the plan was always to vaccinate the entire adult population?" A little like ... The vax won't be compulsory Yet we all knew it would be Now the government seen how many easy comply so the compulsory orders are starting to roll out. To think the government can force medical procedures on people is terrifying, but say its for the ,"greater good" gets it pushed through (even though covid mortally rates are so low for under 75) | |||
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" It was never about the under 75 but now they will soon be coming for the kids I wonder come October when we go into full lockdown and the entire UK population has had 2 jabs how it will be justified. ? Another variant? Not enough pets had the jab? Babies ?" 1. Nobody is "coming for the kids". Tbe vaccine will be made available to under 16s. Parents will devide whether or not they are happy for their children to be vaccinated. 2. The most vulnerable may need a booster in a similar way to the annual flu vaccine. 3. There's literally thousands of variants. Most are minor, its only a small number that are deemed to be a problem. Fortunately, the vaccines have proven effective against them. 4. Pets and babies? I honestly know what to say  | |||
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"Sorry but you're wrong. Every "rollout" schedule that the government published (from november) stated that it would start with over 80's, healthcare workers & Vulnerable, and then progress incrementally through the adult population. Cal This. Didn't have time to do much digging but this is from 11/20: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54873105 Long story short, what Cal said. Bit like 2 weeks to flatten the curve ? It was never about the under 75 but now they will soon be coming for the kids I wonder come October when we go into full lockdown and the entire UK population has had 2 jabs how it will be justified. ? Another variant? Not enough pets had the jab? Babies ? Did you not pay attention to the many links with evidence above, that the plan was always to vaccinate the entire adult population? A little like ... The vax won't be compulsory Yet we all knew it would be Now the government seen how many easy comply so the compulsory orders are starting to roll out. To think the government can force medical procedures on people is terrifying, but say its for the ,"greater good" gets it pushed through (even though covid mortally rates are so low for under 75)" No, a bit like "here is our plan to roll out the vaccine to the adult population." "We are rolling out the vaccine to the adult population." | |||
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" It was never about the under 75 but now they will soon be coming for the kids I wonder come October when we go into full lockdown and the entire UK population has had 2 jabs how it will be justified. ? Another variant? Not enough pets had the jab? Babies ? 1. Nobody is "coming for the kids". Tbe vaccine will be made available to under 16s. Parents will devide whether or not they are happy for their children to be vaccinated. 2. The most vulnerable may need a booster in a similar way to the annual flu vaccine. 3. There's literally thousands of variants. Most are minor, its only a small number that are deemed to be a problem. Fortunately, the vaccines have proven effective against them. 4. Pets and babies? I honestly know what to say "They will make it mandatory for kids eventually. The pets was tounge and cheek but I see that one flew over you | |||
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"I think people who have had covid should be exempt ,as the best defence has always been natural immunity, But they will also be forced to take it thus stripping any plasma from them that could be used to save a life " I had covid. I wasn't forced to get the vaccine. I chose to have it when it was offered to me. | |||
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"And the vaccine isn't mandatory nor will it be. It will be necessary for specific jobs, as other inoculations are." It's starting in care homes ,also hospitals, and will spread. | |||
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" It was never about the under 75 but now they will soon be coming for the kids I wonder come October when we go into full lockdown and the entire UK population has had 2 jabs how it will be justified. ? Another variant? Not enough pets had the jab? Babies ? 1. Nobody is "coming for the kids". Tbe vaccine will be made available to under 16s. Parents will devide whether or not they are happy for their children to be vaccinated. 2. The most vulnerable may need a booster in a similar way to the annual flu vaccine. 3. There's literally thousands of variants. Most are minor, its only a small number that are deemed to be a problem. Fortunately, the vaccines have proven effective against them. 4. Pets and babies? I honestly know what to say
They will make it mandatory for kids eventually.
The pets was tounge and cheek but I see that one flew over you
"We don't have a mandatory vaccine programme in the UK, so l think your worries on that are unfounded. | |||
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"I think people who have had covid should be exempt ,as the best defence has always been natural immunity, But they will also be forced to take it thus stripping any plasma from them that could be used to save a life I had covid. I wasn't forced to get the vaccine. I chose to have it when it was offered to me. " Congratulations | |||
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"And the vaccine isn't mandatory nor will it be. It will be necessary for specific jobs, as other inoculations are. It's starting in care homes ,also hospitals, and will spread. " I'll worry about that (or not) when I see any evidence for it. | |||
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" It was never about the under 75 but now they will soon be coming for the kids I wonder come October when we go into full lockdown and the entire UK population has had 2 jabs how it will be justified. ? Another variant? Not enough pets had the jab? Babies ? 1. Nobody is "coming for the kids". Tbe vaccine will be made available to under 16s. Parents will devide whether or not they are happy for their children to be vaccinated. 2. The most vulnerable may need a booster in a similar way to the annual flu vaccine. 3. There's literally thousands of variants. Most are minor, its only a small number that are deemed to be a problem. Fortunately, the vaccines have proven effective against them. 4. Pets and babies? I honestly know what to say
They will make it mandatory for kids eventually.
The pets was tounge and cheek but I see that one flew over you
We don't have a mandatory vaccine programme in the UK, so l think your worries on that are unfounded."We will | |||
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" It was never about the under 75 but now they will soon be coming for the kids I wonder come October when we go into full lockdown and the entire UK population has had 2 jabs how it will be justified. ? Another variant? Not enough pets had the jab? Babies ? 1. Nobody is "coming for the kids". Tbe vaccine will be made available to under 16s. Parents will devide whether or not they are happy for their children to be vaccinated. 2. The most vulnerable may need a booster in a similar way to the annual flu vaccine. 3. There's literally thousands of variants. Most are minor, its only a small number that are deemed to be a problem. Fortunately, the vaccines have proven effective against them. 4. Pets and babies? I honestly know what to say
They will make it mandatory for kids eventually.
The pets was tounge and cheek but I see that one flew over you
We don't have a mandatory vaccine programme in the UK, so l think your worries on that are unfounded.
We will "What makes you think that? | |||
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"And the vaccine isn't mandatory nor will it be. It will be necessary for specific jobs, as other inoculations are. It's starting in care homes ,also hospitals, and will spread. I'll worry about that (or not) when I see any evidence for it." Care homes from oct have a 16 week window or not allowed to work in them. So end of Jan/ Feb you are out of work or looking for a new job in an already stretched area. So what about the black Community..?? Many don't want the vaccine, many agencies around me are almost 100% black, so they lose their jobs? And all this whilst 100% of care patients have had the 2 jabs (that apparently work) It makes zero sense | |||
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"And the vaccine isn't mandatory nor will it be. It will be necessary for specific jobs, as other inoculations are. It's starting in care homes ,also hospitals, and will spread. I'll worry about that (or not) when I see any evidence for it. Care homes from oct have a 16 week window or not allowed to work in them. So end of Jan/ Feb you are out of work or looking for a new job in an already stretched area. So what about the black Community..?? Many don't want the vaccine, many agencies around me are almost 100% black, so they lose their jobs? And all this whilst 100% of care patients have had the 2 jabs (that apparently work) It makes zero sense " Elderly people are less likely to mount an immune response and need protection. And "work" doesn't mean "perfect". Care and healthcare workers have enhanced duty of care to their patients that others do not have in their professional and personal lives. It makes complete sense, and the scaremongering over "it'll be everyone and even your dog" is absurd. | |||
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"I think people who have had covid should be exempt ,as the best defence has always been natural immunity, But they will also be forced to take it thus stripping any plasma from them that could be used to save a life " they cant force you to take it | |||
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"Ive mixed with people who had covid and im in high risk group ,ive been swabbed and had blood taken and not had it or a carrier, so all you covid expects on here work that out ,my last swob was 4 weeks ago negative..." Excellent news that you have been so lucky. It is even possible that you happen to belong to some genetic group with a natural level of resistance to the SARS-Cov-2 virus. I imagine that in the fullness of time there will be studies and research into this possibility. There are always well documented cases of individuals not being affected by particular diseases or environmental conditions - we all know of some relative who lived to be 85 in spite of smoking 40 cigarettes a day- my own father has survived tuberculosis, prostate cancer, falling off a motorway bridge during construction, a gas explosion, and a spinal injury that should have crippled him. This does not make the dangers of smoking, falling off motorway bridges or covid any less real. Hoping for all to be safe and live long happy lives. Xx | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated Guardian still spinning this as hard as they can however the stats are 13th June: 29% out of the 42 people had been double vaxx (died of covid) 25th June: 50 / 117 (dead through covid) with 60% been vaxxed What started as a vax the over 70's to protect them has morphed into 50 % of the under 30 population of UK now having taken a vax No it never started as a avax to protect the over 70s. From the very beginning they were talking about the achieving a wall of protection. Ignoring this is spinning too. False It was always about protected the 75 plus / vulnerable/ care homes as these were the ones it affected, not the under 60 / 50 / 40 /30 and certainly kids Don't lie, it does not help with debate " I'm sorry but you are wrong! The government have always said they wanted to offer the whole adult population a vaccine as soon as possible. The over 50's and those who had some underlying conditions where priority. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated Guardian still spinning this as hard as they can however the stats are 13th June: 29% out of the 42 people had been double vaxx (died of covid) 25th June: 50 / 117 (dead through covid) with 60% been vaxxed What started as a vax the over 70's to protect them has morphed into 50 % of the under 30 population of UK now having taken a vax " a) spin B) the interesting thing is that people only ever quote the deaths…There are 2 sets of figures that come out every week.. the death figures and the hospitalisation figures… Go and check those… See … another person last week basically started the exact same thread, and again only used the death figures to make a summation And they rightly got slapped down…. | |||
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"I think people who have had covid should be exempt ,as the best defence has always been natural immunity, But they will also be forced to take it thus stripping any plasma from them that could be used to save a life I had covid. I wasn't forced to get the vaccine. I chose to have it when it was offered to me. Congratulations " Thanks | |||
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"And the vaccine isn't mandatory nor will it be. It will be necessary for specific jobs, as other inoculations are. It's starting in care homes ,also hospitals, and will spread. I'll worry about that (or not) when I see any evidence for it. Care homes from oct have a 16 week window or not allowed to work in them. So end of Jan/ Feb you are out of work or looking for a new job in an already stretched area. So what about the black Community..?? Many don't want the vaccine, many agencies around me are almost 100% black, so they lose their jobs? And all this whilst 100% of care patients have had the 2 jabs (that apparently work) It makes zero sense " If people choose not to have the vaccine and want to work in a profession that requires it, they have chosen not to work in that profession any longer by no longer suitable for the position. You forget, employees in care homes are exactly that, caring for people at their home, those vulnerable people deserve to be cared for by people who have taken every precaution possible to keep them safe. | |||
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"And the vaccine isn't mandatory nor will it be. It will be necessary for specific jobs, as other inoculations are. It's starting in care homes ,also hospitals, and will spread. I'll worry about that (or not) when I see any evidence for it. Care homes from oct have a 16 week window or not allowed to work in them. So end of Jan/ Feb you are out of work or looking for a new job in an already stretched area. So what about the black Community..?? Many don't want the vaccine, many agencies around me are almost 100% black, so they lose their jobs? And all this whilst 100% of care patients have had the 2 jabs (that apparently work) It makes zero sense " Are black people not allowed the vaccine then? You make zero sense lol | |||
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"And the vaccine isn't mandatory nor will it be. It will be necessary for specific jobs, as other inoculations are. It's starting in care homes ,also hospitals, and will spread. I'll worry about that (or not) when I see any evidence for it. Care homes from oct have a 16 week window or not allowed to work in them. So end of Jan/ Feb you are out of work or looking for a new job in an already stretched area. So what about the black Community..?? Many don't want the vaccine, many agencies around me are almost 100% black, so they lose their jobs? And all this whilst 100% of care patients have had the 2 jabs (that apparently work) It makes zero sense " Just because you have 2 jabs doesn't mean you are totally immune. Its not rocket science. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated Guardian still spinning this as hard as they can however the stats are 13th June: 29% out of the 42 people had been double vaxx (died of covid) 25th June: 50 / 117 (dead through covid) with 60% been vaxxed What started as a vax the over 70's to protect them has morphed into 50 % of the under 30 population of UK now having taken a vax No it never started as a avax to protect the over 70s. From the very beginning they were talking about the achieving a wall of protection. Ignoring this is spinning too. False It was always about protected the 75 plus / vulnerable/ care homes as these were the ones it affected, not the under 60 / 50 / 40 /30 and certainly kids Don't lie, it does not help with debate " She isn't. The plan was to vaccinate everyone not just the over 70's | |||
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"1) the plan has always been to vaccinate the adult population 2) vaccination helps reduce spread and so helps reduce opportunities for mutation 3) the only way the pandemic ends is when either the virus mutates and the dominant strain is less virulent and serious OR we reach effective herd immunity through vaccinations 4) being "exempt" because you have already had the virus implies the vaccine is compulsory - which it isn't 5) we dont know if the vaccine outperforms protection achieved from a previous infection but why wait to find out? Of course having natural immunity always is better than a manufacturered one, don't be so naive. " The vaccines only help the body to create a natural immunity. Students suggest that the natural immunity created after a full vaccine course of treatment is stronger than that gained from infection. | |||
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"1) the plan has always been to vaccinate the adult population 2) vaccination helps reduce spread and so helps reduce opportunities for mutation 3) the only way the pandemic ends is when either the virus mutates and the dominant strain is less virulent and serious OR we reach effective herd immunity through vaccinations 4) being "exempt" because you have already had the virus implies the vaccine is compulsory - which it isn't 5) we dont know if the vaccine outperforms protection achieved from a previous infection but why wait to find out? Of course having natural immunity always is better than a manufacturered one, don't be so naive. The immunity is created naturally by your immune system. The only difference is the vaccine shows a "pretend" virus rather than the real one. Cal That is good to know, and if that is the case then the people who can show they have natural immunity, could be treated the same as the double vaccinated as far as covid passports and etc may go." The reason that people who have had Covid can still benefit from having a vaccine is due to the way that the body's immune system works. When it is called on to respond to a threat multiple times then the immune response is bolstered. This ensures a more stronger, faster and longer lasting response. This is the same reason for giving the vaccines in two doses rather than having it all in one go. Several scientists have recommended that previously infected people would benefit from just one dose, the government however felt that it was simpler to stick with "one strategy for all". Cal | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated Guardian still spinning this as hard as they can however the stats are 13th June: 29% out of the 42 people had been double vaxx (died of covid) 25th June: 50 / 117 (dead through covid) with 60% been vaxxed What started as a vax the over 70's to protect them has morphed into 50 % of the under 30 population of UK now having taken a vax No it never started as a avax to protect the over 70s. From the very beginning they were talking about the achieving a wall of protection. Ignoring this is spinning too. False It was always about protected the 75 plus / vulnerable/ care homes as these were the ones it affected, not the under 60 / 50 / 40 /30 and certainly kids Don't lie, it does not help with debate " ?? What nonsense. That group was rightly prioritised but it was always going to be offered to everyone. | |||
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"1) the plan has always been to vaccinate the adult population 2) vaccination helps reduce spread and so helps reduce opportunities for mutation 3) the only way the pandemic ends is when either the virus mutates and the dominant strain is less virulent and serious OR we reach effective herd immunity through vaccinations 4) being "exempt" because you have already had the virus implies the vaccine is compulsory - which it isn't 5) we dont know if the vaccine outperforms protection achieved from a previous infection but why wait to find out? Of course having natural immunity always is better than a manufacturered one, don't be so naive. How do you know that, and on what data do you base that claim? So a manufactured vax is better then natural immunity ? " Isnt it strange how the people who want to depopulate the planet are the same people that want to give you a life saving vaccine. | |||
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"1) the plan has always been to vaccinate the adult population 2) vaccination helps reduce spread and so helps reduce opportunities for mutation 3) the only way the pandemic ends is when either the virus mutates and the dominant strain is less virulent and serious OR we reach effective herd immunity through vaccinations 4) being "exempt" because you have already had the virus implies the vaccine is compulsory - which it isn't 5) we dont know if the vaccine outperforms protection achieved from a previous infection but why wait to find out? Of course having natural immunity always is better than a manufacturered one, don't be so naive. How do you know that, and on what data do you base that claim? So a manufactured vax is better then natural immunity ? In some cases it may well be. Take the HPV vaccine. Sterilising immunity, permanent. Bonus, no cancer from that particular stuff. Covid, don't know, but I referred to a paper (I heard about on the most recent This Week in Virology clinical update) that suggests that immunity wanes with Covid and reinfection can be fatal. The Hpv vaccine works totally different to a covid based vax. And of course wasn't put together in 3 to 6 months with zero studies You asked about vaccines. I answered about vaccines. I don't know about the Covid vaccines - they might vary, being different, but I'm not the one making a claim about the superiority of immune response. And you are aware that there were huge global trials for the approved vaccines? Which is why they were approved?" Approve for emergency use only. Btw,it didnt work well in the animal trials did it,all the animals died so they halted the trials. | |||
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"1) the plan has always been to vaccinate the adult population 2) vaccination helps reduce spread and so helps reduce opportunities for mutation 3) the only way the pandemic ends is when either the virus mutates and the dominant strain is less virulent and serious OR we reach effective herd immunity through vaccinations 4) being "exempt" because you have already had the virus implies the vaccine is compulsory - which it isn't 5) we dont know if the vaccine outperforms protection achieved from a previous infection but why wait to find out? Of course having natural immunity always is better than a manufacturered one, don't be so naive. How do you know that, and on what data do you base that claim? So a manufactured vax is better then natural immunity ? In some cases it may well be. Take the HPV vaccine. Sterilising immunity, permanent. Bonus, no cancer from that particular stuff. Covid, don't know, but I referred to a paper (I heard about on the most recent This Week in Virology clinical update) that suggests that immunity wanes with Covid and reinfection can be fatal. The Hpv vaccine works totally different to a covid based vax. And of course wasn't put together in 3 to 6 months with zero studies You asked about vaccines. I answered about vaccines. I don't know about the Covid vaccines - they might vary, being different, but I'm not the one making a claim about the superiority of immune response. And you are aware that there were huge global trials for the approved vaccines? Which is why they were approved? Approve for emergency use only. Btw,it didnt work well in the animal trials did it,all the animals died so they halted the trials." I’m starting to wonder how much of these posts are supposed to be satirical but they’ve not quite worked out how humour works? | |||
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" It was never about the under 75 but now they will soon be coming for the kids I wonder come October when we go into full lockdown and the entire UK population has had 2 jabs how it will be justified. ? Another variant? Not enough pets had the jab? Babies ? 1. Nobody is "coming for the kids". Tbe vaccine will be made available to under 16s. Parents will devide whether or not they are happy for their children to be vaccinated. 2. The most vulnerable may need a booster in a similar way to the annual flu vaccine. 3. There's literally thousands of variants. Most are minor, its only a small number that are deemed to be a problem. Fortunately, the vaccines have proven effective against them. 4. Pets and babies? I honestly know what to say
They will make it mandatory for kids eventually.
The pets was tounge and cheek but I see that one flew over you
We don't have a mandatory vaccine programme in the UK, so l think your worries on that are unfounded.
We will
What makes you think that?"Forced compliance.and dont ask for an explanation as its self explanatory. | |||
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"1) the plan has always been to vaccinate the adult population 2) vaccination helps reduce spread and so helps reduce opportunities for mutation 3) the only way the pandemic ends is when either the virus mutates and the dominant strain is less virulent and serious OR we reach effective herd immunity through vaccinations 4) being "exempt" because you have already had the virus implies the vaccine is compulsory - which it isn't 5) we dont know if the vaccine outperforms protection achieved from a previous infection but why wait to find out? Of course having natural immunity always is better than a manufacturered one, don't be so naive. How do you know that, and on what data do you base that claim? So a manufactured vax is better then natural immunity ? Isnt it strange how the people who want to depopulate the planet are the same people that want to give you a life saving vaccine." so they want to kill off 80% of the world population? Bit of a wild accusation really. The vaccine has been tested. Same as other vaccines. Just in this case money was no object.. the world worked together and finding volunteers was not an issue x | |||
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"And the vaccine isn't mandatory nor will it be. It will be necessary for specific jobs, as other inoculations are. It's starting in care homes ,also hospitals, and will spread. I'll worry about that (or not) when I see any evidence for it. Care homes from oct have a 16 week window or not allowed to work in them. So end of Jan/ Feb you are out of work or looking for a new job in an already stretched area. So what about the black Community..?? Many don't want the vaccine, many agencies around me are almost 100% black, so they lose their jobs? And all this whilst 100% of care patients have had the 2 jabs (that apparently work) It makes zero sense If people choose not to have the vaccine and want to work in a profession that requires it, they have chosen not to work in that profession any longer by no longer suitable for the position. You forget, employees in care homes are exactly that, caring for people at their home, those vulnerable people deserve to be cared for by people who have taken every precaution possible to keep them safe. " I do worry also. I can see a lot of staff leaving. I know many who have already put there notices in. Many with years of experience. People we really need to keep. Personally I don't think it should be mandatory. For many reasons. Were im at, staff Vax levels are higher than than residents at over 95%. More than enough for herd immunity. I'm not sure if many of you have ever had to care for someone with covid? It is terrible for them, struggling to breath, mentally worrying what will happen to them, being isolated among others. Neither is it for the staff that knowingly went in to look after these people, day after day after day. Remember at the start of all this we really didn't know what was going on, how bad it was, had inadequate PPE, much was kindly made by local schools, when people were really pulling together. Yet they went in to look after them, putting themselves at risk, hosing ourselves down in the garden when we got home to keep our families safe too. Working 7 days a week covering shifts, or if got a day off using it at one them drive thru test centers to protect them. Whiles everyone else was enjoying the fantastic summer. I for one would have loved to go on furlongh for them months on end, and get another job to tide myself along. But we were needed. Critical staff we were told. Clap for the NHS (oh and careers) , deservingly so. Here's a shitty pin badge to say thanks. But for all that sacrifice, there now getting given the finger from a government who clearly doesn't follow the rules themselves. Staff will leave, in there thousands, by choice or forced, into the benefits system probably, and yes they may be replaced in time, by people new to the profession, but at what cost? I wonder why they aren't doing this with the NHS at the same time? And changing rules on protests? I think people should take up the Vax, but should not be forced. Genuinely fell sorry for these people. Thanks but fuck off now. | |||
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"You are correct stating that antibodies do not 'last forever' you body doesnt like wasting energy making these when it doesnt have to! However your t cells which make the antibidies 'remember' the virus type and are on standby to manufacture more antibodies as soon as they are needed (on demand as it were)! So they are not lying when they quote the antibody fade but NOT telling the while story..... wonder why. ...? " One innocent reason is that T cell responses are much harder to measure. | |||
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"You are correct stating that antibodies do not 'last forever' you body doesnt like wasting energy making these when it doesnt have to! However your t cells which make the antibidies 'remember' the virus type and are on standby to manufacture more antibodies as soon as they are needed (on demand as it were)! So they are not lying when they quote the antibody fade but NOT telling the while story..... wonder why. ...? " They are telling the whole story but only in scientific journals. Joe public stops reading after a couple of lines so they just give you the basics. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated Guardian still spinning this as hard as they can however the stats are 13th June: 29% out of the 42 people had been double vaxx (died of covid) 25th June: 50 / 117 (dead through covid) with 60% been vaxxed What started as a vax the over 70's to protect them has morphed into 50 % of the under 30 population of UK now having taken a vax " This doesn't tell us much, as in the people who had been jab"d and died, at what stage were they given the Jab, was it a recent thing before catching Covid and before full immunity was realised, what were their state of health etc: Seems like another story made for the anti vax brigade. The only way out of this is for the majority of the population being vaccinated. Statistics prove that vaccination is preventing hospital admissions and deaths.The only route to getting back to normal life. Don't anyone believe this bunch of irresponsible ani vax numbskulls | |||
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"I thought the plan was always to vaccinate at least all adults. I certainly looked forward to receiving my vaccination, at a not especially vulnerable 35, when I heard that the vaccines were being approved." *approved in emergency use...still to be fully tested btw  | |||
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"I thought the plan was always to vaccinate at least all adults. I certainly looked forward to receiving my vaccination, at a not especially vulnerable 35, when I heard that the vaccines were being approved. *approved in emergency use...still to be fully tested btw "They've been tested to a level that meets the requirements and standards set by the MRHA and ditto in other countries.. That'll do.. | |||
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"I thought the plan was always to vaccinate at least all adults. I certainly looked forward to receiving my vaccination, at a not especially vulnerable 35, when I heard that the vaccines were being approved. *approved in emergency use...still to be fully tested btw "What do you think phase 3 trials are for? What do you think constitutes fully tested? Like the above, they've met my standards. I believe Moderna and Pfizer are seeking full FDA (US only obviously) approval later this year. | |||
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"I thought the plan was always to vaccinate at least all adults. I certainly looked forward to receiving my vaccination, at a not especially vulnerable 35, when I heard that the vaccines were being approved. *approved in emergency use...still to be fully tested btw "Still misunderstanding what that actually means. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated Guardian still spinning this as hard as they can however the stats are 13th June: 29% out of the 42 people had been double vaxx (died of covid) 25th June: 50 / 117 (dead through covid) with 60% been vaxxed What started as a vax the over 70's to protect them has morphed into 50 % of the under 30 population of UK now having taken a vax " How many people who aren’t double jabbed have died with COVID? | |||
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"I thought the plan was always to vaccinate at least all adults. I certainly looked forward to receiving my vaccination, at a not especially vulnerable 35, when I heard that the vaccines were being approved. *approved in emergency use...still to be fully tested btw "If you truly believe that the vaccines haven't been fully tested, can you just run us through what tests you think are missing? | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated Guardian still spinning this as hard as they can however the stats are 13th June: 29% out of the 42 people had been double vaxx (died of covid) 25th June: 50 / 117 (dead through covid) with 60% been vaxxed What started as a vax the over 70's to protect them has morphed into 50 % of the under 30 population of UK now having taken a vax " Fact: more than half of people who die today will have been vaccinated. | |||
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"They died of the vax, its an immune system destroying gene therapy not a vaccine" Would you be so kind as to share your evidence of this? Possibly a legitimate scientific paper? | |||
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"They died of the vax, its an immune system destroying gene therapy not a vaccine Would you be so kind as to share your evidence of this? Possibly a legitimate scientific paper?" Don't make plans around this, I think you're going to be waiting a very long time indeed. | |||
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"To be clear. High percentage of older people have been vaccinated. The majority of people who die everyday are old people. As vaccination increases, the vaccinated will make up an increasing proportion of the dead. It's simple mathematics. " Unfortunately this is a good example of how statistics can be used to reinforce those who are anti vaccination. They will latch onto the increasing numbers/percentages of the elderly that die who are vaccinated and then say “look vaccines dont work” despite the fact that a person is 99 years old | |||
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"To be clear. High percentage of older people have been vaccinated. The majority of people who die everyday are old people. As vaccination increases, the vaccinated will make up an increasing proportion of the dead. It's simple mathematics. Unfortunately this is a good example of how statistics can be used to reinforce those who are anti vaccination. They will latch onto the increasing numbers/percentages of the elderly that die who are vaccinated and then say “look vaccines dont work” despite the fact that a person is 99 years old " Yes. Correlation doesn't equal causation. In the Moderna study someone reported the side effects associated with being struck by lightning. Hint: the jab does not cause lightning strikes. But they had to report it | |||
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"To be clear. High percentage of older people have been vaccinated. The majority of people who die everyday are old people. As vaccination increases, the vaccinated will make up an increasing proportion of the dead. It's simple mathematics. Unfortunately this is a good example of how statistics can be used to reinforce those who are anti vaccination. They will latch onto the increasing numbers/percentages of the elderly that die who are vaccinated and then say “look vaccines dont work” despite the fact that a person is 99 years old Yes. Correlation doesn't equal causation. In the Moderna study someone reported the side effects associated with being struck by lightning. Hint: the jab does not cause lightning strikes. But they had to report it " Once people figure out that “correlation doesn’t equal causation” then conspiracy theories struggle to hold any water. | |||
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"To be clear. High percentage of older people have been vaccinated. The majority of people who die everyday are old people. As vaccination increases, the vaccinated will make up an increasing proportion of the dead. It's simple mathematics. Unfortunately this is a good example of how statistics can be used to reinforce those who are anti vaccination. They will latch onto the increasing numbers/percentages of the elderly that die who are vaccinated and then say “look vaccines dont work” despite the fact that a person is 99 years old Yes. Correlation doesn't equal causation. In the Moderna study someone reported the side effects associated with being struck by lightning. Hint: the jab does not cause lightning strikes. But they had to report it Once people figure out that “correlation doesn’t equal causation” then conspiracy theories struggle to hold any water. " Mmhm. | |||
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"1) the plan has always been to vaccinate the adult population 2) vaccination helps reduce spread and so helps reduce opportunities for mutation 3) the only way the pandemic ends is when either the virus mutates and the dominant strain is less virulent and serious OR we reach effective herd immunity through vaccinations 4) being "exempt" because you have already had the virus implies the vaccine is compulsory - which it isn't 5) we dont know if the vaccine outperforms protection achieved from a previous infection but why wait to find out? Of course having natural immunity always is better than a manufacturered one, don't be so naive. How do you know that, and on what data do you base that claim? So a manufactured vax is better then natural immunity ? Isnt it strange how the people who want to depopulate the planet are the same people that want to give you a life saving vaccine." Source for this information please? | |||
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"1) the plan has always been to vaccinate the adult population 2) vaccination helps reduce spread and so helps reduce opportunities for mutation 3) the only way the pandemic ends is when either the virus mutates and the dominant strain is less virulent and serious OR we reach effective herd immunity through vaccinations 4) being "exempt" because you have already had the virus implies the vaccine is compulsory - which it isn't 5) we dont know if the vaccine outperforms protection achieved from a previous infection but why wait to find out? Of course having natural immunity always is better than a manufacturered one, don't be so naive. How do you know that, and on what data do you base that claim? So a manufactured vax is better then natural immunity ? In some cases it may well be. Take the HPV vaccine. Sterilising immunity, permanent. Bonus, no cancer from that particular stuff. Covid, don't know, but I referred to a paper (I heard about on the most recent This Week in Virology clinical update) that suggests that immunity wanes with Covid and reinfection can be fatal. The Hpv vaccine works totally different to a covid based vax. And of course wasn't put together in 3 to 6 months with zero studies You asked about vaccines. I answered about vaccines. I don't know about the Covid vaccines - they might vary, being different, but I'm not the one making a claim about the superiority of immune response. And you are aware that there were huge global trials for the approved vaccines? Which is why they were approved? Approve for emergency use only. Btw,it didnt work well in the animal trials did it,all the animals died so they halted the trials." Source for this information please? | |||
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" It was never about the under 75 but now they will soon be coming for the kids I wonder come October when we go into full lockdown and the entire UK population has had 2 jabs how it will be justified. ? Another variant? Not enough pets had the jab? Babies ? 1. Nobody is "coming for the kids". Tbe vaccine will be made available to under 16s. Parents will devide whether or not they are happy for their children to be vaccinated. 2. The most vulnerable may need a booster in a similar way to the annual flu vaccine. 3. There's literally thousands of variants. Most are minor, its only a small number that are deemed to be a problem. Fortunately, the vaccines have proven effective against them. 4. Pets and babies? I honestly know what to say
They will make it mandatory for kids eventually.
The pets was tounge and cheek but I see that one flew over you
We don't have a mandatory vaccine programme in the UK, so l think your worries on that are unfounded.
We will
What makes you think that?
Forced compliance.and dont ask for an explanation as its self explanatory."Source for this information please? | |||
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"To be clear. High percentage of older people have been vaccinated. The majority of people who die everyday are old people. As vaccination increases, the vaccinated will make up an increasing proportion of the dead. It's simple mathematics. Unfortunately this is a good example of how statistics can be used to reinforce those who are anti vaccination. They will latch onto the increasing numbers/percentages of the elderly that die who are vaccinated and then say “look vaccines dont work” despite the fact that a person is 99 years old Yes. Correlation doesn't equal causation. In the Moderna study someone reported the side effects associated with being struck by lightning. Hint: the jab does not cause lightning strikes. But they had to report it Once people figure out that “correlation doesn’t equal causation” then conspiracy theories struggle to hold any water. Mmhm." Don’t get me wrong that doesn’t mean they won’t keep making stuff up  | |||
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"To be clear. High percentage of older people have been vaccinated. The majority of people who die everyday are old people. As vaccination increases, the vaccinated will make up an increasing proportion of the dead. It's simple mathematics. " Absolutely. And if we ever reach the point of 100% vaccination, we can guarantee that 100% of the people who die will have been vaccinated. Likewise 100% of the people who die in England have been breathing English air and using English water. Furthermore, 100% of the people who die in Ipswich, have visited Ipswich! People really should stop going there, the place is obviously lethal!  | |||
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"To be clear. High percentage of older people have been vaccinated. The majority of people who die everyday are old people. As vaccination increases, the vaccinated will make up an increasing proportion of the dead. It's simple mathematics. Absolutely. And if we ever reach the point of 100% vaccination, we can guarantee that 100% of the people who die will have been vaccinated. Likewise 100% of the people who die in England have been breathing English air and using English water. Furthermore, 100% of the people who die in Ipswich, have visited Ipswich! People really should stop going there, the place is obviously lethal! "lol you should risk a trip to Essex that has left me with many health issues both physical and mental after 40 years there, it's that bad I moved to Lincolnshire  | |||
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On the subject of the 'pandemic' its wirth researching how many cremations and burials have occurred over the last 5 years or so and comparing... the figures suggest that we are actually below average over 2021-22 which begs the question wheres the pandemic.....? | |||
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"Very true although you have tonlook beneath the main stream media for the full story and statistics. As you say not many will bother Im afraid
On the subject of the 'pandemic' its wirth researching how many cremations and burials have occurred over the last 5 years or so and comparing... the figures suggest that we are actually below average over 2021-22 which begs the question wheres the pandemic.....?"That's really interesting, where could I find those figures please? | |||
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"Very true although you have tonlook beneath the main stream media for the full story and statistics. As you say not many will bother Im afraid
On the subject of the 'pandemic' its wirth researching how many cremations and burials have occurred over the last 5 years or so and comparing... the figures suggest that we are actually below average over 2021-22 which begs the question wheres the pandemic.....?"Did you look into Viking burials too, they were quite the big thing at one point. | |||
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"Very true although you have tonlook beneath the main stream media for the full story and statistics. As you say not many will bother Im afraid
On the subject of the 'pandemic' its wirth researching how many cremations and burials have occurred over the last 5 years or so and comparing... the figures suggest that we are actually below average over 2021-22 which begs the question wheres the pandemic.....?"Very true | |||
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"Very true although you have tonlook beneath the main stream media for the full story and statistics. As you say not many will bother Im afraid
On the subject of the 'pandemic' its wirth researching how many cremations and burials have occurred over the last 5 years or so and comparing... the figures suggest that we are actually below average over 2021-22 which begs the question wheres the pandemic.....?
That's really interesting, where could I find those figures please?"Freedom of information you can write to the crematoriums requesting the info ... the same as the Health Authority Boards you can write asking what their Covid death numbers are | |||
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"Very true although you have tonlook beneath the main stream media for the full story and statistics. As you say not many will bother Im afraid
On the subject of the 'pandemic' its wirth researching how many cremations and burials have occurred over the last 5 years or so and comparing... the figures suggest that we are actually below average over 2021-22 which begs the question wheres the pandemic.....?
That's really interesting, where could I find those figures please?
Freedom of information you can write to the crematoriums requesting the info ... the same as the Health Authority Boards you can write asking what their Covid death numbers are "Temporary morgues were in place last year because the existing infrastructure couldn't cope https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/17/coronavirus-crisis-puts-pressure-on-crematoria-and-morgues-in-uk There were contingency measures as fears of overrun funeral services existed https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53566971 ... Two minute search. Obviously old articles, but I'm not sure the claim holds up. | |||
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"Very true although you have tonlook beneath the main stream media for the full story and statistics. As you say not many will bother Im afraid
On the subject of the 'pandemic' its wirth researching how many cremations and burials have occurred over the last 5 years or so and comparing... the figures suggest that we are actually below average over 2021-22 which begs the question wheres the pandemic.....?"There were according to the ONS about 87,000 extra deaths last year that were due to covid and that was on top of about 460,000 'normal' or none covid deaths.. Be interested to see what your source is for your claims please? | |||
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"Very true although you have tonlook beneath the main stream media for the full story and statistics. As you say not many will bother Im afraid
On the subject of the 'pandemic' its wirth researching how many cremations and burials have occurred over the last 5 years or so and comparing... the figures suggest that we are actually below average over 2021-22 which begs the question wheres the pandemic.....?
There were according to the ONS about 87,000 extra deaths last year that were due to covid and that was on top of about 460,000 'normal' or none covid deaths..
Be interested to see what your source is for your claims please?"My guess would be their source is a combination of YouTube and poor maths. | |||
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"1) the plan has always been to vaccinate the adult population 2) vaccination helps reduce spread and so helps reduce opportunities for mutation 3) the only way the pandemic ends is when either the virus mutates and the dominant strain is less virulent and serious OR we reach effective herd immunity through vaccinations 4) being "exempt" because you have already had the virus implies the vaccine is compulsory - which it isn't 5) we dont know if the vaccine outperforms protection achieved from a previous infection but why wait to find out? Of course having natural immunity always is better than a manufacturered one, don't be so naive. How do you know that, and on what data do you base that claim? So a manufactured vax is better then natural immunity ? Isnt it strange how the people who want to depopulate the planet are the same people that want to give you a life saving vaccine. Source for this information please?" Haha you gotta laugh, I had some nutjob message me about pharmaceutical companies and their big plan re depopulation. Haha I had to laugh. Pharmaceutical companies I thought were relentless in in pursuit of profit, and if they were depopulising the planet it seems to me less people less profit for them. But no for some people this is all one big ploy. I wonder if these people just live in a world where they watch the xfiles 24/7 | |||
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"You are correct stating that antibodies do not 'last forever' you body doesnt like wasting energy making these when it doesnt have to! However your t cells which make the antibidies 'remember' the virus type and are on standby to manufacture more antibodies as soon as they are needed (on demand as it were)! So they are not lying when they quote the antibody fade but NOT telling the while story..... wonder why. ...? " T-cells do not manufacture antibodies. B-cells differentiate into plasma cells, which produce antibodies. B-memory cells can remain in the lymphatic system for varying amounts of time (depending on the antigen they recognise) and quickly start differentiating into plasma cells again if they come into contact with their antigen again. T-cells are mainly involved in assisting in what's called "antigen presentation" and in cytotoxicity (killing infected cells). There are subsets of T-cells called memory T-cells, but our understanding of these is far less clear than for the B-cell subsets and for cytotoxic (CD8+) T-cells and for T-helper (CD4+) cells. It is likely that some aspect of enduring immunity is provided by T-memory cells, but all these do is assist in activating the B-cells. It requires specifically activated B-cells to produce antibodies. | |||
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"1) the plan has always been to vaccinate the adult population 2) vaccination helps reduce spread and so helps reduce opportunities for mutation 3) the only way the pandemic ends is when either the virus mutates and the dominant strain is less virulent and serious OR we reach effective herd immunity through vaccinations 4) being "exempt" because you have already had the virus implies the vaccine is compulsory - which it isn't 5) we dont know if the vaccine outperforms protection achieved from a previous infection but why wait to find out? Of course having natural immunity always is better than a manufacturered one, don't be so naive. How do you know that, and on what data do you base that claim? So a manufactured vax is better then natural immunity ? Isnt it strange how the people who want to depopulate the planet are the same people that want to give you a life saving vaccine. Source for this information please? Haha you gotta laugh, I had some nutjob message me about pharmaceutical companies and their big plan re depopulation. Haha I had to laugh. Pharmaceutical companies I thought were relentless in in pursuit of profit, and if they were depopulising the planet it seems to me less people less profit for them. But no for some people this is all one big ploy. I wonder if these people just live in a world where they watch the xfiles 24/7" I used to love X files. However I also can’t understand how big Pharma would be making more money by killing off the old and vulnerable. Have you seen how many meds the average OAP is taking?!! | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated Guardian still spinning this as hard as they can however the stats are 13th June: 29% out of the 42 people had been double vaxx (died of covid) 25th June: 50 / 117 (dead through covid) with 60% been vaxxed What started as a vax the over 70's to protect them has morphed into 50 % of the under 30 population of UK now having taken a vax " Half a story, well done | |||
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"I thought the plan was always to vaccinate at least all adults. I certainly looked forward to receiving my vaccination, at a not especially vulnerable 35, when I heard that the vaccines were being approved. *approved in emergency use...still to be fully tested btw "not even approved for emergency use, just authorised | |||
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"I thought the plan was always to vaccinate at least all adults. I certainly looked forward to receiving my vaccination, at a not especially vulnerable 35, when I heard that the vaccines were being approved. *approved in emergency use...still to be fully tested btw
not even approved for emergency use, just authorised"Other than semantics, what is the difference between approved and authorised? You will find the term "authorised" in all the patient information leaflets and summary of product characteristics documents for all medicines. A random example of a prescription medication SpC: For esomeprazole, 20 and 40mg hard gastro-resistant capsules: 7. Marketing authorisation holder Aristo Pharma GmbH Wallenroder Straße 8-10 13435 Berlin Germany 8. Marketing authorisation number(s) PL 40546/0001 (20 mg) PL 40546/0002 (40 mg) 9. Date of first authorisation/renewal of the authorisation 19.07.2012 | |||
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"I thought the plan was always to vaccinate at least all adults. I certainly looked forward to receiving my vaccination, at a not especially vulnerable 35, when I heard that the vaccines were being approved. *approved in emergency use...still to be fully tested btw
not even approved for emergency use, just authorised
Other than semantics, what is the difference between approved and authorised?
You will find the term "authorised" in all the patient information leaflets and summary of product characteristics documents for all medicines.
A random example of a prescription medication SpC:
For esomeprazole, 20 and 40mg hard gastro-resistant capsules:
7. Marketing authorisation holder
Aristo Pharma GmbH
Wallenroder Straße 8-10
13435 Berlin
Germany
8. Marketing authorisation number(s)
PL 40546/0001 (20 mg)
PL 40546/0002 (40 mg)
9. Date of first authorisation/renewal of the authorisation
19.07.2012"The way i read it is that an office bod or politician could authorise something but it would have to pass certain professional standards to be approved | |||
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"I thought the plan was always to vaccinate at least all adults. I certainly looked forward to receiving my vaccination, at a not especially vulnerable 35, when I heard that the vaccines were being approved. *approved in emergency use...still to be fully tested btw
not even approved for emergency use, just authorised
Other than semantics, what is the difference between approved and authorised?
You will find the term "authorised" in all the patient information leaflets and summary of product characteristics documents for all medicines.
A random example of a prescription medication SpC:
For esomeprazole, 20 and 40mg hard gastro-resistant capsules:
7. Marketing authorisation holder
Aristo Pharma GmbH
Wallenroder Straße 8-10
13435 Berlin
Germany
8. Marketing authorisation number(s)
PL 40546/0001 (20 mg)
PL 40546/0002 (40 mg)
9. Date of first authorisation/renewal of the authorisation
19.07.2012
The way i read it is that an office bod or politician could authorise something but it would have to pass certain professional standards to be approved"They have most definitely been approved... this is a very informative link with lots of links on it to more info https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/safety-and-side-effects/ | |||
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"I thought the plan was always to vaccinate at least all adults. I certainly looked forward to receiving my vaccination, at a not especially vulnerable 35, when I heard that the vaccines were being approved. *approved in emergency use...still to be fully tested btw
not even approved for emergency use, just authorised
Other than semantics, what is the difference between approved and authorised?
You will find the term "authorised" in all the patient information leaflets and summary of product characteristics documents for all medicines.
A random example of a prescription medication SpC:
For esomeprazole, 20 and 40mg hard gastro-resistant capsules:
7. Marketing authorisation holder
Aristo Pharma GmbH
Wallenroder Straße 8-10
13435 Berlin
Germany
8. Marketing authorisation number(s)
PL 40546/0001 (20 mg)
PL 40546/0002 (40 mg)
9. Date of first authorisation/renewal of the authorisation
19.07.2012
The way i read it is that an office bod or politician could authorise something but it would have to pass certain professional standards to be approved"Nope. All medicines and medical devices are authorised for use in the UK by the MHRA (if they meet the requisite standard). You will find no reference to approval anywhere on the documentation pertaining to medicines etc. Check out the package leaflet of any meds you have at home (incl. OTC things like paracetamol) and you will see. So, yes, the vaccines are authorised for emergency use, which has no ulterior meaning at all. | |||
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"I thought the plan was always to vaccinate at least all adults. I certainly looked forward to receiving my vaccination, at a not especially vulnerable 35, when I heard that the vaccines were being approved. *approved in emergency use...still to be fully tested btw
not even approved for emergency use, just authorised
Other than semantics, what is the difference between approved and authorised?
You will find the term "authorised" in all the patient information leaflets and summary of product characteristics documents for all medicines.
A random example of a prescription medication SpC:
For esomeprazole, 20 and 40mg hard gastro-resistant capsules:
7. Marketing authorisation holder
Aristo Pharma GmbH
Wallenroder Straße 8-10
13435 Berlin
Germany
8. Marketing authorisation number(s)
PL 40546/0001 (20 mg)
PL 40546/0002 (40 mg)
9. Date of first authorisation/renewal of the authorisation
19.07.2012
The way i read it is that an office bod or politician could authorise something but it would have to pass certain professional standards to be approved"Each country has different legislation and bodies involved with assessment and authorisation. As kinkycouple state, in the UK it is the MHRA. | |||
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"i just looked on the gov site, yes it says temporary autherisation under regulation 174. it wont be approved until tests are satisfactually completed " Have you had a look at your medicine inserts? Prescription or over the counter? You will find all of them use the term "authorised". The word approved simply isn't used. | |||
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"I thought the plan was always to vaccinate at least all adults. I certainly looked forward to receiving my vaccination, at a not especially vulnerable 35, when I heard that the vaccines were being approved. *approved in emergency use...still to be fully tested btw
not even approved for emergency use, just authorised
Other than semantics, what is the difference between approved and authorised?
You will find the term "authorised" in all the patient information leaflets and summary of product characteristics documents for all medicines.
A random example of a prescription medication SpC:
For esomeprazole, 20 and 40mg hard gastro-resistant capsules:
7. Marketing authorisation holder
Aristo Pharma GmbH
Wallenroder Straße 8-10
13435 Berlin
Germany
8. Marketing authorisation number(s)
PL 40546/0001 (20 mg)
PL 40546/0002 (40 mg)
9. Date of first authorisation/renewal of the authorisation
19.07.2012
The way i read it is that an office bod or politician could authorise something but it would have to pass certain professional standards to be approved"So, based on how YOU read things, you feel qualified to say the vaccine shouldn't be used? Or that it isn't safe as its only being used under temporary authorisation? | |||
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"I thought the plan was always to vaccinate at least all adults. I certainly looked forward to receiving my vaccination, at a not especially vulnerable 35, when I heard that the vaccines were being approved. *approved in emergency use...still to be fully tested btw
not even approved for emergency use, just authorised
Other than semantics, what is the difference between approved and authorised?
You will find the term "authorised" in all the patient information leaflets and summary of product characteristics documents for all medicines.
A random example of a prescription medication SpC:
For esomeprazole, 20 and 40mg hard gastro-resistant capsules:
7. Marketing authorisation holder
Aristo Pharma GmbH
Wallenroder Straße 8-10
13435 Berlin
Germany
8. Marketing authorisation number(s)
PL 40546/0001 (20 mg)
PL 40546/0002 (40 mg)
9. Date of first authorisation/renewal of the authorisation
19.07.2012
The way i read it is that an office bod or politician could authorise something but it would have to pass certain professional standards to be approved"Fortunately, this isn't the case. Hope this helps | |||
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"I actually know someone who was double jabbed 3 wks ago & now has Covid with many symptoms...they were hospitalised yesterday "I hope that they recover quickly. Having had a vaccine, they will be in a better position to fight the virus than if they weren't vaccinated. I sincerely hope that it is enough. Cal | |||
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"I actually know someone who was double jabbed 3 wks ago & now has Covid with many symptoms...they were hospitalised yesterday "I got infected despite being double jabbed (got careless). My symptoms were barely noticeable and I did not pass it on to any member of my household. I am not confident that it would have been that good without the vaccine. | |||
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"I actually know someone who was double jabbed 3 wks ago & now has Covid with many symptoms...they were hospitalised yesterday
I hope that they recover quickly. Having had a vaccine, they will be in a better position to fight the virus than if they weren't vaccinated. I sincerely hope that it is enough.
Cal"Absolutely | |||
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"Having the vaccine doesn't make a person invincible. You can still catch Covid, but should experience a less severe disease due to the immunity provided by the vaccine. Not everyone mounts a sufficient immune response to vaccines, so it's also possible that a small number of people will get severe disease, despite having two doses of a vaccine, due to an insufficient immune response. The fact deaths and hospitalisations have remained low in this wave of Delta variant this far, supports the idea that the vaccines are protecting against severe disease (which is what they were designed to do). " | |||
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"1) the plan has always been to vaccinate the adult population 2) vaccination helps reduce spread and so helps reduce opportunities for mutation 3) the only way the pandemic ends is when either the virus mutates and the dominant strain is less virulent and serious OR we reach effective herd immunity through vaccinations 4) being "exempt" because you have already had the virus implies the vaccine is compulsory - which it isn't 5) we dont know if the vaccine outperforms protection achieved from a previous infection but why wait to find out? Of course having natural immunity always is better than a manufacturered one, don't be so naive. How do you know that, and on what data do you base that claim? So a manufactured vax is better then natural immunity ? " You seem to be an expert so can I ask you was the small pox immunity natural? | |||
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"What death rates don't show is what would have been the death rate without a vacinne. If 100% of people were vacinnated then logically 100% of deaths would be from vaccinated people. Looking back to pre vacinne you can see what they death rates were without a vacinne and with a tighter social restrictions than currently. We are no were near the 1000's of deaths a day that was occurring when there was no vacinne. So clearly the vacinne protects society from the huge impacts of the disease but as has always been said its a vacinne its not a sheild. Vacinnes train your own bodies defences to fight the virus, they don't put a wrapper around your body preventing microbes from entering your body. Anyone expecting 100% protection is fooling themselves and potentially others. " Very much. | |||
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"1) the plan has always been to vaccinate the adult population 2) vaccination helps reduce spread and so helps reduce opportunities for mutation 3) the only way the pandemic ends is when either the virus mutates and the dominant strain is less virulent and serious OR we reach effective herd immunity through vaccinations 4) being "exempt" because you have already had the virus implies the vaccine is compulsory - which it isn't 5) we dont know if the vaccine outperforms protection achieved from a previous infection but why wait to find out? Of course having natural immunity always is better than a manufacturered one, don't be so naive. How do you know that, and on what data do you base that claim? So a manufactured vax is better then natural immunity ? In some cases it may well be. Take the HPV vaccine. Sterilising immunity, permanent. Bonus, no cancer from that particular stuff. Covid, don't know, but I referred to a paper (I heard about on the most recent This Week in Virology clinical update) that suggests that immunity wanes with Covid and reinfection can be fatal. The Hpv vaccine works totally different to a covid based vax. And of course wasn't put together in 3 to 6 months with zero studies You asked about vaccines. I answered about vaccines. I don't know about the Covid vaccines - they might vary, being different, but I'm not the one making a claim about the superiority of immune response. And you are aware that there were huge global trials for the approved vaccines? Which is why they were approved? Approve for emergency use only. Btw,it didnt work well in the animal trials did it,all the animals died so they halted the trials." No they didn't. Stop spreading lies and misinformation. The animals were euthanized after the trials as per standard protocols. | |||
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" Vacinnes train your own bodies defences to fight the virus, they don't put a wrapper around your body preventing microbes from entering your body. Anyone expecting 100% protection is fooling themselves and potentially others. " This, in a nutshell.. That many are not informed of such facts has allowed others to exploit the lack of knowledge, the uncertainty of the issue and any fears they may have had prior to .. | |||
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"1) the plan has always been to vaccinate the adult population 2) vaccination helps reduce spread and so helps reduce opportunities for mutation 3) the only way the pandemic ends is when either the virus mutates and the dominant strain is less virulent and serious OR we reach effective herd immunity through vaccinations 4) being "exempt" because you have already had the virus implies the vaccine is compulsory - which it isn't 5) we dont know if the vaccine outperforms protection achieved from a previous infection but why wait to find out? Of course having natural immunity always is better than a manufacturered one, don't be so naive. How do you know that, and on what data do you base that claim? So a manufactured vax is better then natural immunity ? In some cases it may well be. Take the HPV vaccine. Sterilising immunity, permanent. Bonus, no cancer from that particular stuff. Covid, don't know, but I referred to a paper (I heard about on the most recent This Week in Virology clinical update) that suggests that immunity wanes with Covid and reinfection can be fatal. The Hpv vaccine works totally different to a covid based vax. And of course wasn't put together in 3 to 6 months with zero studies You asked about vaccines. I answered about vaccines. I don't know about the Covid vaccines - they might vary, being different, but I'm not the one making a claim about the superiority of immune response. And you are aware that there were huge global trials for the approved vaccines? Which is why they were approved? Approve for emergency use only. Btw,it didnt work well in the animal trials did it,all the animals died so they halted the trials. No they didn't. Stop spreading lies and misinformation. The animals were euthanized after the trials as per standard protocols. " You beat me to it. That's exactly what happened, the animals didn't die from being vaccinated. To say they did is grossly miss-representing the actual facts. E | |||
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"1) the plan has always been to vaccinate the adult population 2) vaccination helps reduce spread and so helps reduce opportunities for mutation 3) the only way the pandemic ends is when either the virus mutates and the dominant strain is less virulent and serious OR we reach effective herd immunity through vaccinations 4) being "exempt" because you have already had the virus implies the vaccine is compulsory - which it isn't 5) we dont know if the vaccine outperforms protection achieved from a previous infection but why wait to find out? Of course having natural immunity always is better than a manufacturered one, don't be so naive. How do you know that, and on what data do you base that claim? So a manufactured vax is better then natural immunity ? In some cases it may well be. Take the HPV vaccine. Sterilising immunity, permanent. Bonus, no cancer from that particular stuff. Covid, don't know, but I referred to a paper (I heard about on the most recent This Week in Virology clinical update) that suggests that immunity wanes with Covid and reinfection can be fatal. The Hpv vaccine works totally different to a covid based vax. And of course wasn't put together in 3 to 6 months with zero studies You asked about vaccines. I answered about vaccines. I don't know about the Covid vaccines - they might vary, being different, but I'm not the one making a claim about the superiority of immune response. And you are aware that there were huge global trials for the approved vaccines? Which is why they were approved? Approve for emergency use only. Btw,it didnt work well in the animal trials did it,all the animals died so they halted the trials. No they didn't. Stop spreading lies and misinformation. The animals were euthanized after the trials as per standard protocols. "
It's very sad that people would say such things, when it's clear that the vaccines went beyond animal testing stages, to Phase 3 Trials on hundreds of thousands of people around the world.
Causing such potential alarm is adding unnecessary distress, when everyone has had a difficult time as it is. | |||
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"1) the plan has always been to vaccinate the adult population 2) vaccination helps reduce spread and so helps reduce opportunities for mutation 3) the only way the pandemic ends is when either the virus mutates and the dominant strain is less virulent and serious OR we reach effective herd immunity through vaccinations 4) being "exempt" because you have already had the virus implies the vaccine is compulsory - which it isn't 5) we dont know if the vaccine outperforms protection achieved from a previous infection but why wait to find out? Of course having natural immunity always is better than a manufacturered one, don't be so naive. How do you know that, and on what data do you base that claim? So a manufactured vax is better then natural immunity ? In some cases it may well be. Take the HPV vaccine. Sterilising immunity, permanent. Bonus, no cancer from that particular stuff. Covid, don't know, but I referred to a paper (I heard about on the most recent This Week in Virology clinical update) that suggests that immunity wanes with Covid and reinfection can be fatal. The Hpv vaccine works totally different to a covid based vax. And of course wasn't put together in 3 to 6 months with zero studies You asked about vaccines. I answered about vaccines. I don't know about the Covid vaccines - they might vary, being different, but I'm not the one making a claim about the superiority of immune response. And you are aware that there were huge global trials for the approved vaccines? Which is why they were approved? Approve for emergency use only. Btw,it didnt work well in the animal trials did it,all the animals died so they halted the trials. No they didn't. Stop spreading lies and misinformation. The animals were euthanized after the trials as per standard protocols.
It's very sad that people would say such things, when it's clear that the vaccines went beyond animal testing stages, to Phase 3 Trials on hundreds of thousands of people around the world.
Causing such potential alarm is adding unnecessary distress, when everyone has had a difficult time as it is. "And now are in post marketing safety monitoring. Not ongoing trials. It's called Phase 4 and yes the longest one is Pfizer running until 2023, but "post marketing" means "now it's out in the public". And how safety monitoring is spun to be nefarious... I don't even know. These myths are so unhelpful. Get the vaccine, don't get the vaccine, but don't lie about it. | |||
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"Google are correct, wards and addition cremetoriums etc prepared in readiness but not utilised as expected, their not lying but not stating that fact. The buried and cremated figures I quoted are not claims but fact check out that. " Source please | |||
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"Very true although you have tonlook beneath the main stream media for the full story and statistics. As you say not many will bother Im afraid
On the subject of the 'pandemic' its wirth researching how many cremations and burials have occurred over the last 5 years or so and comparing... the figures suggest that we are actually below average over 2021-22 which begs the question wheres the pandemic.....?"You are ignoring the 128,000 plus excess deaths we had in 20/21. The uptake in vaccines has also reduced the risk - not taken it away, reduced it. Look around the world, this virus is not going away without vaccines and vaccinations. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated Guardian still spinning this as hard as they can however the stats are 13th June: 29% out of the 42 people had been double vaxx (died of covid) 25th June: 50 / 117 (dead through covid) with 60% been vaxxed What started as a vax the over 70's to protect them has morphed into 50 % of the under 30 population of UK now having taken a vax No it never started as a avax to protect the over 70s. From the very beginning they were talking about the achieving a wall of protection. Ignoring this is spinning too. False It was always about protected the 75 plus / vulnerable/ care homes as these were the ones it affected, not the under 60 / 50 / 40 /30 and certainly kids Don't lie, it does not help with debate " You're certainly right about how lieing doesn't help with debate. Hoist by your own petard. E | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated Guardian still spinning this as hard as they can however the stats are 13th June: 29% out of the 42 people had been double vaxx (died of covid) 25th June: 50 / 117 (dead through covid) with 60% been vaxxed What started as a vax the over 70's to protect them has morphed into 50 % of the under 30 population of UK now having taken a vax " That link says they died with covid not of covid. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated Guardian still spinning this as hard as they can however the stats are 13th June: 29% out of the 42 people had been double vaxx (died of covid) 25th June: 50 / 117 (dead through covid) with 60% been vaxxed What started as a vax the over 70's to protect them has morphed into 50 % of the under 30 population of UK now having taken a vax The thing with this data is that it doesn't really tell us much. We already know that the vaccines are not 100% effective. The data tells us nothing about how many people didn't get infected, or only had mild symptoms, or had serious symptoms but survived. It seems like a "sensational" narrative to push. Cal" Agreed, some of the deceased may not have actually died of covid either. They could have been fully vaccinated, had a positive test in the previous 28 days, and got run over. They might not have symptoms but the fact they fit the criteria mean they get counted as a death with covid positive test in the last 28 days. The figures spouted by the Guardian are just poor editorial crap. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated Guardian still spinning this as hard as they can however the stats are 13th June: 29% out of the 42 people had been double vaxx (died of covid) 25th June: 50 / 117 (dead through covid) with 60% been vaxxed What started as a vax the over 70's to protect them has morphed into 50 % of the under 30 population of UK now having taken a vax That link says they died with covid not of covid." Yes. Funny that | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated Guardian still spinning this as hard as they can however the stats are 13th June: 29% out of the 42 people had been double vaxx (died of covid) 25th June: 50 / 117 (dead through covid) with 60% been vaxxed What started as a vax the over 70's to protect them has morphed into 50 % of the under 30 population of UK now having taken a vax That link says they died with covid not of covid. Yes. Funny that" I was wondering how an article (used to illustrate a negative) that clearly says "with" had somehow been corrupted to "of". Presumably deliberate to illustrate the negative. Strange....... E | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated Guardian still spinning this as hard as they can however the stats are 13th June: 29% out of the 42 people had been double vaxx (died of covid) 25th June: 50 / 117 (dead through covid) with 60% been vaxxed What started as a vax the over 70's to protect them has morphed into 50 % of the under 30 population of UK now having taken a vax That link says they died with covid not of covid. Yes. Funny that I was wondering how an article (used to illustrate a negative) that clearly says "with" had somehow been corrupted to "of". Presumably deliberate to illustrate the negative. Strange....... E " Covid isn't a big deal, people die with Covid via the pandemic bus Vaccines are terrible: people died of Covid after being jabbed (maybe once, maybe twice, maybe before full immune response), definitely of Covid, no other reason | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated Guardian still spinning this as hard as they can however the stats are 13th June: 29% out of the 42 people had been double vaxx (died of covid) 25th June: 50 / 117 (dead through covid) with 60% been vaxxed What started as a vax the over 70's to protect them has morphed into 50 % of the under 30 population of UK now having taken a vax That link says they died with covid not of covid. Yes. Funny that I was wondering how an article (used to illustrate a negative) that clearly says "with" had somehow been corrupted to "of". Presumably deliberate to illustrate the negative. Strange....... E Covid isn't a big deal, people die with Covid via the pandemic bus Vaccines are terrible: people died of Covid after being jabbed (maybe once, maybe twice, maybe before full immune response), definitely of Covid, no other reason" What were you drinking last night!? | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated Guardian still spinning this as hard as they can however the stats are 13th June: 29% out of the 42 people had been double vaxx (died of covid) 25th June: 50 / 117 (dead through covid) with 60% been vaxxed What started as a vax the over 70's to protect them has morphed into 50 % of the under 30 population of UK now having taken a vax That link says they died with covid not of covid. Yes. Funny that I was wondering how an article (used to illustrate a negative) that clearly says "with" had somehow been corrupted to "of". Presumably deliberate to illustrate the negative. Strange....... E Covid isn't a big deal, people die with Covid via the pandemic bus Vaccines are terrible: people died of Covid after being jabbed (maybe once, maybe twice, maybe before full immune response), definitely of Covid, no other reason What were you drinking last night!? "Water
My point stands
That's the way the rhetoric goes, isn't it? If we're talking about Covid it's just a sniffle and they got hit by a bus. Nothing to see here
If it's related to the vaccine then the death is definitely Covid, or vaccine, or both, and should be counted twice for truthiness.
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"A key point the OP missed in the first few comments (forgive me if it's already been talked about) but she said that everyone will be forced to get the vaccine which isn't true, you are under no obligation to get the vaccine." I mean as wild accusations go, it kind of got lost | |||
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"Vaccines have reduced deaths significantly. The more people who get vaccinated, the more deaths will be reduced. It isn’t complicated really. " Yes. Vaccines are very good but not perfect - nothing is. The most vulnerable are the most likely to be vaccinated. I bet if a more complicated analysis happened, you'd see risk numbers plummet. (Maths is not my long suit, I'm not doing it) | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated Guardian still spinning this as hard as they can however the stats are 13th June: 29% out of the 42 people had been double vaxx (died of covid) 25th June: 50 / 117 (dead through covid) with 60% been vaxxed What started as a vax the over 70's to protect them has morphed into 50 % of the under 30 population of UK now having taken a vax The thing with this data is that it doesn't really tell us much. We already know that the vaccines are not 100% effective. The data tells us nothing about how many people didn't get infected, or only had mild symptoms, or had serious symptoms but survived. It seems like a "sensational" narrative to push. Cal Agreed, some of the deceased may not have actually died of covid either. They could have been fully vaccinated, had a positive test in the previous 28 days, and got run over. They might not have symptoms but the fact they fit the criteria mean they get counted as a death with covid positive test in the last 28 days. The figures spouted by the Guardian are just poor editorial crap. " Simply not true. The ONS stats do not include "with" deaths - only "of". Noone dying in a car crash who happens to be covid positive is counted in ONS stats as a covid related death. That myth has been debunked repeatedly. The daily death toll is counted like that but those are rough numbers. Funnily enough, ONS numbers are higher than the "28 day" numbers that include "with" deaths. ONS are the official death toll. The reason it is higher is because many dying hadnt been tested before becoming severely ill. | |||
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"Vavvinations work by reducing your chance of being severely ill. They do not provide immunity. By having as broad a take up as possible we reduce the R number and the virus becomes less transmissable & as a result we have less flareups and we all become safer. The way risk numbers plummet is by people being vaccinated - it happens for many, many diseases around the world. The process is well known, well tested & well understood. The analysis is being done by cleverer people than us certainly "The maths is not that tricky but the difficulty with this forum is that when you talk about risk it's easier to use pictures to illustrate what you are saying. I like to think of the virus as tennis balls fired into a room and humans walking around in velcro. If a tennis ball hits you you have to tear it off the velcro and throw it at someone else. The more balls that hit you the higher your viral load. So the higher chance of you getting severe illness and of passing it on. The vacinne works so that the velcro becomes less sticky. Therefore, the balls tend to fall off onto the floor and then can't be passed on to the next individual. You may still get hit but less often, but the occasional ball may still hit an individual hard or in a vulnerable place. | |||
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"Everything XnicecoupleX is 100% correct. Elvis told me!!" Rowing my boat now to the edge of the earth to see if I fall off!!! | |||
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"World is overpopulated pal I’d never dream of having anything when the government has waived liability " Never had any vaccinations or taken a pain killer I'm guessing? Or any prescription medicine for that matter. E | |||
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"World is overpopulated pal I’d never dream of having anything when the government has waived liability " You do realise thats not true? | |||
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"I think people who have had covid should be exempt ,as the best defence has always been natural immunity, But they will also be forced to take it thus stripping any plasma from them that could be used to save a life " “Stripping any plasma” WTAF are you talking about, that makes ZERO medical sense. As someone who’s a) has had covid, b) is part of a national research study and c) is double moderna jabbed let me also point out that your ‘excerpt’ statement is totally false. My immunity is registering at its highest point ever since my second jab. Well surpassing the figures I had as a recovered covid suffer prior. Please, please stop subscribing to Dr Nick from the Simpsons blogs or YouTube channel. Xxx | |||
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"I think people who have had covid should be exempt ,as the best defence has always been natural immunity, But they will also be forced to take it thus stripping any plasma from them that could be used to save a life " There is no natural immunity, it's a novel virus | |||
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"I just love how all the evidence presented is either from msm or tech/pharma funded institutions. Hilarious "Better than crackpot conspiracy theorists | |||
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"just 2 weeks to flatten the curve & protect the elderly "That's the thing with a novel virus, things can change | |||
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