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Vaccine deaths
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"Should any death with 28 days of having the vaccine should count as a vaccine death? Seems to work the other way when recording deaths. Discuss.. (nicely if possible) " No, UK should never have been counting for 28 days after covid anyway IMHO | |||
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"If it's shown via autopsy what the specific cause of death was, yes why not.. Might quell some of the misinformation that's evidently bring spread.." Just like they did with covid deaths!!  | |||
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"If it's shown via autopsy what the specific cause of death was, yes why not.. Might quell some of the misinformation that's evidently bring spread.. Just like they did with covid deaths!! "I'm not sure what point you're trying to get to? But if the question is, should we report people who have caught death from any vaccine... Then yes we should. Just like any other cause of death. | |||
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"If it's shown via autopsy what the specific cause of death was, yes why not.. Might quell some of the misinformation that's evidently bring spread.. Just like they did with covid deaths!! " | |||
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"Do you campaign on the risks, complications and deaths of all vaccines to be publicised? (As they all have them) Did you do that before Covid? I know the answer. You didn’t. Hopefully because you knew they are infinitesimally small and so insignificant that putting oxygen on them would actually cost many many more lives by putting people off getting life saving shot. " You're missing the point. | |||
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"Do you campaign on the risks, complications and deaths of all vaccines to be publicised? (As they all have them) Did you do that before Covid? I know the answer. You didn’t. Hopefully because you knew they are infinitesimally small and so insignificant that putting oxygen on them would actually cost many many more lives by putting people off getting life saving shot. " Oh I don't know. I agree that covid vaccines have a huge amount of scrutiny.. I mean when people have their jabs for holidays I can't imagine anyone checking the box and date, or they take their paracetamol or nurofen after the 2 bottles of wine the night before... (how many people die of alcohol poisoning?)... But... I think if this leads to people taking more interest in the consequences of what they put in their body and questioning big pharma more for clarity... I think it's a good thing... And if we did it with oh.... Let's say... Some of the car manufacturers too... Or beauty products and vitamins and supplements or gm and bleached meats..... | |||
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"If it's shown via autopsy what the specific cause of death was, yes why not.. Might quell some of the misinformation that's evidently bring spread.. Just like they did with covid deaths!! "To be fair the people who are recorded as having died due to covid, are not having a positive test and then randomly keeling over 4 weeks later. They are spending time in hospital being treated for the effects of a respiratory virus and dying in hospital. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Do you campaign on the risks, complications and deaths of all vaccines to be publicised? (As they all have them) Did you do that before Covid? I know the answer. You didn’t. Hopefully because you knew they are infinitesimally small and so insignificant that putting oxygen on them would actually cost many many more lives by putting people off getting life saving shot. " | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"If it's shown via autopsy what the specific cause of death was, yes why not.. Might quell some of the misinformation that's evidently bring spread.. Just like they did with covid deaths!!
To be fair the people who are recorded as having died due to covid, are not having a positive test and then randomly keeling over 4 weeks later. "Actually the majority are keeling over within the first few days, if you look at the data plotted on a graph the incidence reduces in a smooth curve. | |||
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"Should any death with 28 days of having the vaccine should count as a vaccine death? Seems to work the other way when recording deaths. Discuss.. (nicely if possible) " No. And it shouldn’t work the other way either. But your infinitely small amount of genuine knowledge about this subject means you probably don’t know enough about the data to suggest that any kind of numbers are being attributed to the virus. Let’s stop blowing up crap we hear online into the majority fact, yeah?  | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"If it's shown via autopsy what the specific cause of death was, yes why not.. Might quell some of the misinformation that's evidently bring spread.. Just like they did with covid deaths!!
To be fair the people who are recorded as having died due to covid, are not having a positive test and then randomly keeling over 4 weeks later. They are spending time in hospital being treated for the effects of a respiratory virus and dying in hospital."
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Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"If it's shown via autopsy what the specific cause of death was, yes why not.. Might quell some of the misinformation that's evidently bring spread.. Just like they did with covid deaths!!
To be fair the people who are recorded as having died due to covid, are not having a positive test and then randomly keeling over 4 weeks later.
Actually the majority are keeling over within the first few days, if you look at the data plotted on a graph the incidence reduces in a smooth curve."I've not seen any graphs of deaths against "infected time", but I have seen reports that most covid deaths happen in hospital. The big demonstration of the severity of covid deaths was the huge spikes compared with the 5 year average. These spikes occurred in line with the first two infection spikes, and equated to around 40% more excess deaths than the figure published as "covid deaths". Currently the weekly deaths (from any cause) are running below the well 5 year average, which again reinforces the concept that these vaccines are not a safety concern. After 70 million jabs, if it was dangerous that would have presented itself in the figures. Cal | |||
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"Should any death with 28 days of having the vaccine should count as a vaccine death? Seems to work the other way when recording deaths. Discuss.. (nicely if possible) No. And it shouldn’t work the other way either. But your infinitely small amount of genuine knowledge about this subject means you probably don’t know enough about the data to suggest that any kind of numbers are being attributed to the virus. Let’s stop blowing up crap we hear online into the majority fact, yeah? "I don't profess to be any kind of expert.. I asked a simple question. | |||
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Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Should any death with 28 days of having the vaccine should count as a vaccine death? Seems to work the other way when recording deaths. Discuss.. (nicely if possible) No. And it shouldn’t work the other way either. But your infinitely small amount of genuine knowledge about this subject means you probably don’t know enough about the data to suggest that any kind of numbers are being attributed to the virus. Let’s stop blowing up crap we hear online into the majority fact, yeah?
I don't profess to be any kind of expert.. I asked a simple question. "No; you said it seems to work the other way when recording deaths as if you spoke from knowledge. It doesn’t work the other way, thats just a few cases reported on the internet. | |||
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"Should any death with 28 days of having the vaccine should count as a vaccine death? Seems to work the other way when recording deaths. Discuss.. (nicely if possible) No. And it shouldn’t work the other way either. But your infinitely small amount of genuine knowledge about this subject means you probably don’t know enough about the data to suggest that any kind of numbers are being attributed to the virus. Let’s stop blowing up crap we hear online into the majority fact, yeah?
I don't profess to be any kind of expert.. I asked a simple question. "Was it really though? The observation that "we do it the other way though?" isn't a question. | |||
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"Do you campaign on the risks, complications and deaths of all vaccines to be publicised? (As they all have them) Did you do that before Covid? I know the answer. You didn’t. Hopefully because you knew they are infinitesimally small and so insignificant that putting oxygen on them would actually cost many many more lives by putting people off getting life saving shot. You're missing the point. " I think everyone sees your point. | |||
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Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"If it's shown via autopsy what the specific cause of death was, yes why not.. Might quell some of the misinformation that's evidently bring spread.. Just like they did with covid deaths!!
To be fair the people who are recorded as having died due to covid, are not having a positive test and then randomly keeling over 4 weeks later.
Actually the majority are keeling over within the first few days, if you look at the data plotted on a graph the incidence reduces in a smooth curve.
I've not seen any graphs of deaths against "infected time", but I have seen reports that most covid deaths happen in hospital.
The big demonstration of the severity of covid deaths was the huge spikes compared with the 5 year average. These spikes occurred in line with the first two infection spikes, and equated to around 40% more excess deaths than the figure published as "covid deaths".
Currently the weekly deaths (from any cause) are running below the well 5 year average, which again reinforces the concept that these vaccines are not a safety concern. After 70 million jabs, if it was dangerous that would have presented itself in the figures.
Cal"Yes. Nightingale hospitals that were built solely for covid patients sat empty and were never used while some normal hospitals were called Nightingale and accepted covid as well as non covid patients by only segregating wards. What could possibly go wrong? I personally know a few people who went in with a stroke, a heart attack, old age related problems covid free and died in a hospital after catching it. In the hospital. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Should any death with 28 days of having the vaccine should count as a vaccine death? Seems to work the other way when recording deaths. Discuss.. (nicely if possible) No. And it shouldn’t work the other way either. But your infinitely small amount of genuine knowledge about this subject means you probably don’t know enough about the data to suggest that any kind of numbers are being attributed to the virus. Let’s stop blowing up crap we hear online into the majority fact, yeah?
I don't profess to be any kind of expert.. I asked a simple question.
Well I think we can all agree that you've successfully shown you're not any kind of expert so well played on that front"It really did take long did it, before a keyboard warrior pipes up. This section of the forum really brings the worst out in people. Can't have a discussion on here without getting lambasted. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Should any death with 28 days of having the vaccine should count as a vaccine death? Seems to work the other way when recording deaths. Discuss.. (nicely if possible) No. And it shouldn’t work the other way either. But your infinitely small amount of genuine knowledge about this subject means you probably don’t know enough about the data to suggest that any kind of numbers are being attributed to the virus. Let’s stop blowing up crap we hear online into the majority fact, yeah?
I don't profess to be any kind of expert.. I asked a simple question.
Well I think we can all agree that you've successfully shown you're not any kind of expert so well played on that front
It really did take long did it, before a keyboard warrior pipes up.
This section of the forum really brings the worst out in people.
Can't have a discussion on here without getting lambasted.
"
Forum name shouldn't be called "virus" it should be called "bullies".
Honestly the amount of hate on here is just ungodly | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Should any death with 28 days of having the vaccine should count as a vaccine death? Seems to work the other way when recording deaths. Discuss.. (nicely if possible) No. And it shouldn’t work the other way either. But your infinitely small amount of genuine knowledge about this subject means you probably don’t know enough about the data to suggest that any kind of numbers are being attributed to the virus. Let’s stop blowing up crap we hear online into the majority fact, yeah?
I don't profess to be any kind of expert.. I asked a simple question.
Well I think we can all agree that you've successfully shown you're not any kind of expert so well played on that front
It really did take long did it, before a keyboard warrior pipes up.
This section of the forum really brings the worst out in people.
Can't have a discussion on here without getting lambasted.
Forum name shouldn't be called "virus" it should be called "bullies".
Honestly the amount of hate on here is just ungodly "It's horrendous.. I'm outta here, leave them to it. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Should any death with 28 days of having the vaccine should count as a vaccine death? Seems to work the other way when recording deaths. Discuss.. (nicely if possible) No. And it shouldn’t work the other way either. But your infinitely small amount of genuine knowledge about this subject means you probably don’t know enough about the data to suggest that any kind of numbers are being attributed to the virus. Let’s stop blowing up crap we hear online into the majority fact, yeah?
I don't profess to be any kind of expert.. I asked a simple question.
Well I think we can all agree that you've successfully shown you're not any kind of expert so well played on that front
It really did take long did it, before a keyboard warrior pipes up.
This section of the forum really brings the worst out in people.
Can't have a discussion on here without getting lambasted.
"Your op was loaded. All we have to work with are the words. Words have meanings. Hence the responses. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Should any death with 28 days of having the vaccine should count as a vaccine death? Seems to work the other way when recording deaths. Discuss.. (nicely if possible) No. And it shouldn’t work the other way either. But your infinitely small amount of genuine knowledge about this subject means you probably don’t know enough about the data to suggest that any kind of numbers are being attributed to the virus. Let’s stop blowing up crap we hear online into the majority fact, yeah?
I don't profess to be any kind of expert.. I asked a simple question.
Well I think we can all agree that you've successfully shown you're not any kind of expert so well played on that front
It really did take long did it, before a keyboard warrior pipes up.
This section of the forum really brings the worst out in people.
Can't have a discussion on here without getting lambasted.
Forum name shouldn't be called "virus" it should be called "bullies".
Honestly the amount of hate on here is just ungodly
It's horrendous.. I'm outta here, leave them to it. "Unfortunately, the mind set on this forum, is you are either with us or against us, it really reminds me of George W Bush making people choose sides, that worked out well didn't it?  | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Do you campaign on the risks, complications and deaths of all vaccines to be publicised? (As they all have them) Did you do that before Covid? I know the answer. You didn’t. Hopefully because you knew they are infinitesimally small and so insignificant that putting oxygen on them would actually cost many many more lives by putting people off getting life saving shot. You're missing the point. " You maybe too! | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"If it's shown via autopsy what the specific cause of death was, yes why not.. Might quell some of the misinformation that's evidently bring spread.. Just like they did with covid deaths!!
To be fair the people who are recorded as having died due to covid, are not having a positive test and then randomly keeling over 4 weeks later.
Actually the majority are keeling over within the first few days, if you look at the data plotted on a graph the incidence reduces in a smooth curve.
I've not seen any graphs of deaths against "infected time", but I have seen reports that most covid deaths happen in hospital.
The big demonstration of the severity of covid deaths was the huge spikes compared with the 5 year average. These spikes occurred in line with the first two infection spikes, and equated to around 40% more excess deaths than the figure published as "covid deaths".
Currently the weekly deaths (from any cause) are running below the well 5 year average, which again reinforces the concept that these vaccines are not a safety concern. After 70 million jabs, if it was dangerous that would have presented itself in the figures.
Cal
Yes. Nightingale hospitals that were built solely for covid patients sat empty and were never used while some normal hospitals were called Nightingale and accepted covid as well as non covid patients by only segregating wards.
What could possibly go wrong?
I personally know a few people who went in with a stroke, a heart attack, old age related problems covid free and died in a hospital after catching it. In the hospital.
"Nightingale hospitals were a bit of a White Elephant. Like many things conceived by politicians, the basic idea was ok but the reality was not. There was never enough trained professionals available to staff them. If there had been, and all covid patients went to Nightingale hospitals, then lives would have been saved. Thankfully though, we never reached the point (thanks to lockdowns) where there wasn't enough capacity in hospitals to take the patients. | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"If it's shown via autopsy what the specific cause of death was, yes why not.. Might quell some of the misinformation that's evidently bring spread.. Just like they did with covid deaths!!
To be fair the people who are recorded as having died due to covid, are not having a positive test and then randomly keeling over 4 weeks later.
Actually the majority are keeling over within the first few days, if you look at the data plotted on a graph the incidence reduces in a smooth curve.
I've not seen any graphs of deaths against "infected time", but I have seen reports that most covid deaths happen in hospital.
The big demonstration of the severity of covid deaths was the huge spikes compared with the 5 year average. These spikes occurred in line with the first two infection spikes, and equated to around 40% more excess deaths than the figure published as "covid deaths".
Currently the weekly deaths (from any cause) are running below the well 5 year average, which again reinforces the concept that these vaccines are not a safety concern. After 70 million jabs, if it was dangerous that would have presented itself in the figures.
Cal
Yes. Nightingale hospitals that were built solely for covid patients sat empty and were never used while some normal hospitals were called Nightingale and accepted covid as well as non covid patients by only segregating wards.
What could possibly go wrong?
I personally know a few people who went in with a stroke, a heart attack, old age related problems covid free and died in a hospital after catching it. In the hospital.
Nightingale hospitals were a bit of a White Elephant. Like many things conceived by politicians, the basic idea was ok but the reality was not. There was never enough trained professionals available to staff them. If there had been, and all covid patients went to Nightingale hospitals, then lives would have been saved.
Thankfully though, we never reached the point (thanks to lockdowns) where there wasn't enough capacity in hospitals to take the patients. "Yes, because those who went in without covid and died from catching it in the hospital were freeing up them beds quite efficiently. Also are you saying that government didn't have enough funds to ship some extra staff over from other countries? That same government who made millions dissappear?  please tell me more about how genuinely they've been trying to "save lives" | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"Should any death with 28 days of having the vaccine should count as a vaccine death? Seems to work the other way when recording deaths. Discuss.. (nicely if possible) No. And it shouldn’t work the other way either. But your infinitely small amount of genuine knowledge about this subject means you probably don’t know enough about the data to suggest that any kind of numbers are being attributed to the virus. Let’s stop blowing up crap we hear online into the majority fact, yeah?
I don't profess to be any kind of expert.. I asked a simple question.
Well I think we can all agree that you've successfully shown you're not any kind of expert so well played on that front
It really did take long did it, before a keyboard warrior pipes up.
This section of the forum really brings the worst out in people.
Can't have a discussion on here without getting lambasted.
Your op was loaded. All we have to work with are the words. Words have meanings. Hence the responses. "I think she is talking about the post she quoted which was nasty and against forum rules | |||
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"https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathssolelyfromcovid19ratherthandeathswithin28daysofapositivetest (Mods - link to government site). " I can read | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathssolelyfromcovid19ratherthandeathswithin28daysofapositivetest (Mods - link to government site). I can read"  | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathssolelyfromcovid19ratherthandeathswithin28daysofapositivetest (Mods - link to government site). I can read" Oh I see what this is about now....no need to tell mods which links are allowed on a thread, they know. Having a ban previously for a link that isn't allowed is not the mods fault. They don't make people post it. | |||
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"If it's shown via autopsy what the specific cause of death was, yes why not.. Might quell some of the misinformation that's evidently bring spread.. Just like they did with covid deaths!!
To be fair the people who are recorded as having died due to covid, are not having a positive test and then randomly keeling over 4 weeks later.
Actually the majority are keeling over within the first few days, if you look at the data plotted on a graph the incidence reduces in a smooth curve.
I've not seen any graphs of deaths against "infected time", but I have seen reports that most covid deaths happen in hospital.
The big demonstration of the severity of covid deaths was the huge spikes compared with the 5 year average. These spikes occurred in line with the first two infection spikes, and equated to around 40% more excess deaths than the figure published as "covid deaths".
Currently the weekly deaths (from any cause) are running below the well 5 year average, which again reinforces the concept that these vaccines are not a safety concern. After 70 million jabs, if it was dangerous that would have presented itself in the figures.
Cal
Yes. Nightingale hospitals that were built solely for covid patients sat empty and were never used while some normal hospitals were called Nightingale and accepted covid as well as non covid patients by only segregating wards.
What could possibly go wrong?
I personally know a few people who went in with a stroke, a heart attack, old age related problems covid free and died in a hospital after catching it. In the hospital.
Nightingale hospitals were a bit of a White Elephant. Like many things conceived by politicians, the basic idea was ok but the reality was not. There was never enough trained professionals available to staff them. If there had been, and all covid patients went to Nightingale hospitals, then lives would have been saved.
Thankfully though, we never reached the point (thanks to lockdowns) where there wasn't enough capacity in hospitals to take the patients.
Yes, because those who went in without covid and died from catching it in the hospital were freeing up them beds quite efficiently.
Also are you saying that government didn't have enough funds to ship some extra staff over from other countries? That same government who made millions dissappear? please tell me more about how genuinely they've been trying to "save lives" "I believe that the other countries actually needed their medical staff too. The NHS was already struggling for staff without these additional roles. Although you are trying to mock me, your comment actually just reinforces what I said. I am not in any way supporting Boris, and completely agree that various members of his government have make an absolute mint out of the situation. Cal | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"If it's shown via autopsy what the specific cause of death was, yes why not.. Might quell some of the misinformation that's evidently bring spread.. Just like they did with covid deaths!!
To be fair the people who are recorded as having died due to covid, are not having a positive test and then randomly keeling over 4 weeks later.
Actually the majority are keeling over within the first few days, if you look at the data plotted on a graph the incidence reduces in a smooth curve.
I've not seen any graphs of deaths against "infected time", but I have seen reports that most covid deaths happen in hospital.
The big demonstration of the severity of covid deaths was the huge spikes compared with the 5 year average. These spikes occurred in line with the first two infection spikes, and equated to around 40% more excess deaths than the figure published as "covid deaths".
Currently the weekly deaths (from any cause) are running below the well 5 year average, which again reinforces the concept that these vaccines are not a safety concern. After 70 million jabs, if it was dangerous that would have presented itself in the figures.
Cal
Yes. Nightingale hospitals that were built solely for covid patients sat empty and were never used while some normal hospitals were called Nightingale and accepted covid as well as non covid patients by only segregating wards.
What could possibly go wrong?
I personally know a few people who went in with a stroke, a heart attack, old age related problems covid free and died in a hospital after catching it. In the hospital.
Nightingale hospitals were a bit of a White Elephant. Like many things conceived by politicians, the basic idea was ok but the reality was not. There was never enough trained professionals available to staff them. If there had been, and all covid patients went to Nightingale hospitals, then lives would have been saved.
Thankfully though, we never reached the point (thanks to lockdowns) where there wasn't enough capacity in hospitals to take the patients. "If you add the word safely to take the patients is it still a accurate statement? | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"If it's shown via autopsy what the specific cause of death was, yes why not.. Might quell some of the misinformation that's evidently bring spread.. Just like they did with covid deaths!!
To be fair the people who are recorded as having died due to covid, are not having a positive test and then randomly keeling over 4 weeks later.
Actually the majority are keeling over within the first few days, if you look at the data plotted on a graph the incidence reduces in a smooth curve.
I've not seen any graphs of deaths against "infected time", but I have seen reports that most covid deaths happen in hospital.
The big demonstration of the severity of covid deaths was the huge spikes compared with the 5 year average. These spikes occurred in line with the first two infection spikes, and equated to around 40% more excess deaths than the figure published as "covid deaths".
Currently the weekly deaths (from any cause) are running below the well 5 year average, which again reinforces the concept that these vaccines are not a safety concern. After 70 million jabs, if it was dangerous that would have presented itself in the figures.
Cal
Yes. Nightingale hospitals that were built solely for covid patients sat empty and were never used while some normal hospitals were called Nightingale and accepted covid as well as non covid patients by only segregating wards.
What could possibly go wrong?
I personally know a few people who went in with a stroke, a heart attack, old age related problems covid free and died in a hospital after catching it. In the hospital.
Nightingale hospitals were a bit of a White Elephant. Like many things conceived by politicians, the basic idea was ok but the reality was not. There was never enough trained professionals available to staff them. If there had been, and all covid patients went to Nightingale hospitals, then lives would have been saved.
Thankfully though, we never reached the point (thanks to lockdowns) where there wasn't enough capacity in hospitals to take the patients.
Yes, because those who went in without covid and died from catching it in the hospital were freeing up them beds quite efficiently.
Also are you saying that government didn't have enough funds to ship some extra staff over from other countries? That same government who made millions dissappear? please tell me more about how genuinely they've been trying to "save lives" "I think "Also are you saying that government didn't have enough funds to ship some extra staff over from other countries?" is the flaw in your argument, bearing in mind every other country was in the same boat regarding trained and skilled staff to deal with their own Covid situations. Regarding the Nightingale hospitals, I'm glad we had them but didn't have to use them, opposed to not having them and needing them. E | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"If it's shown via autopsy what the specific cause of death was, yes why not.. Might quell some of the misinformation that's evidently bring spread.. Just like they did with covid deaths!!
To be fair the people who are recorded as having died due to covid, are not having a positive test and then randomly keeling over 4 weeks later.
Actually the majority are keeling over within the first few days, if you look at the data plotted on a graph the incidence reduces in a smooth curve.
I've not seen any graphs of deaths against "infected time", but I have seen reports that most covid deaths happen in hospital.
The big demonstration of the severity of covid deaths was the huge spikes compared with the 5 year average. These spikes occurred in line with the first two infection spikes, and equated to around 40% more excess deaths than the figure published as "covid deaths".
Currently the weekly deaths (from any cause) are running below the well 5 year average, which again reinforces the concept that these vaccines are not a safety concern. After 70 million jabs, if it was dangerous that would have presented itself in the figures.
Cal
Yes. Nightingale hospitals that were built solely for covid patients sat empty and were never used while some normal hospitals were called Nightingale and accepted covid as well as non covid patients by only segregating wards.
What could possibly go wrong?
I personally know a few people who went in with a stroke, a heart attack, old age related problems covid free and died in a hospital after catching it. In the hospital.
Nightingale hospitals were a bit of a White Elephant. Like many things conceived by politicians, the basic idea was ok but the reality was not. There was never enough trained professionals available to staff them. If there had been, and all covid patients went to Nightingale hospitals, then lives would have been saved.
Thankfully though, we never reached the point (thanks to lockdowns) where there wasn't enough capacity in hospitals to take the patients.
Yes, because those who went in without covid and died from catching it in the hospital were freeing up them beds quite efficiently.
Also are you saying that government didn't have enough funds to ship some extra staff over from other countries? That same government who made millions dissappear? please tell me more about how genuinely they've been trying to "save lives"
I think "Also are you saying that government didn't have enough funds to ship some extra staff over from other countries?" is the flaw in your argument, bearing in mind every other country was in the same boat regarding trained and skilled staff to deal with their own Covid situations.
Regarding the Nightingale hospitals, I'm glad we had them but didn't have to use them, opposed to not having them and needing them.
E"Or having them on standby and then having to use them... | |||
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"https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathssolelyfromcovid19ratherthandeathswithin28daysofapositivetest (Mods - link to government site). I can read " | |||
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Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathssolelyfromcovid19ratherthandeathswithin28daysofapositivetest (Mods - link to government site). I can read" Sorry for stating the absolutely obvious, Rugby!  | |||
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"**BACK UP AND REWIND** Does anybody know the after effects from the vaccine's just say after 12months, 18months, 24 months or in the long run how it may effect the future generation. " How would they.? Anybody know the after effects of having covid after 1 2 3 years? | |||
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"**BACK UP AND REWIND** Does anybody know the after effects from the vaccine's just say after 12months, 18months, 24 months or in the long run how it may effect the future generation. " Of course not. However, these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime. They've been rigorousley tested and trialled, the results recorded and "signed off", the vaccines have been approved in every country they're being used in. Risk mitigation. We do it every day, just not under this much of a microscope. E | |||
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"**BACK UP AND REWIND** Does anybody know the after effects from the vaccine's just say after 12months, 18months, 24 months or in the long run how it may effect the future generation. " The absolute answer for many new things is that we can't have a 100% certainty for the future. This includes each of these new vaccines. What can guide us, as well as the formulation of public policies etc, is our prior experience and expertise. With decades of vaccine experience behind us, we have amassed good levels of understanding of them and how they impact on us and our health. Overall, side-effects are typically evident in the short term, rather than the opposite - that alone can allay the prospect of a substantial doomsday scenario, where catastrophic levels of probability exists for most problems being yet to be known. The technologies behind each of them are known, so we have that compound knowledge too, which is really supportive. | |||
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"If it's shown via autopsy what the specific cause of death was, yes why not.. Might quell some of the misinformation that's evidently bring spread.. Just like they did with covid deaths!!
To be fair the people who are recorded as having died due to covid, are not having a positive test and then randomly keeling over 4 weeks later.
Actually the majority are keeling over within the first few days, if you look at the data plotted on a graph the incidence reduces in a smooth curve.
I've not seen any graphs of deaths against "infected time", but I have seen reports that most covid deaths happen in hospital.
The big demonstration of the severity of covid deaths was the huge spikes compared with the 5 year average. These spikes occurred in line with the first two infection spikes, and equated to around 40% more excess deaths than the figure published as "covid deaths".
Currently the weekly deaths (from any cause) are running below the well 5 year average, which again reinforces the concept that these vaccines are not a safety concern. After 70 million jabs, if it was dangerous that would have presented itself in the figures.
Cal
Yes. Nightingale hospitals that were built solely for covid patients sat empty and were never used while some normal hospitals were called Nightingale and accepted covid as well as non covid patients by only segregating wards.
What could possibly go wrong?
I personally know a few people who went in with a stroke, a heart attack, old age related problems covid free and died in a hospital after catching it. In the hospital.
Nightingale hospitals were a bit of a White Elephant. Like many things conceived by politicians, the basic idea was ok but the reality was not. There was never enough trained professionals available to staff them. If there had been, and all covid patients went to Nightingale hospitals, then lives would have been saved.
Thankfully though, we never reached the point (thanks to lockdowns) where there wasn't enough capacity in hospitals to take the patients.
Yes, because those who went in without covid and died from catching it in the hospital were freeing up them beds quite efficiently.
Also are you saying that government didn't have enough funds to ship some extra staff over from other countries? That same government who made millions dissappear? please tell me more about how genuinely they've been trying to "save lives"
I believe that the other countries actually needed their medical staff too. The NHS was already struggling for staff without these additional roles.
Although you are trying to mock me, your comment actually just reinforces what I said. I am not in any way supporting Boris, and completely agree that various members of his government have make an absolute mint out of the situation.
Cal"So recruiting care workers from other countries to replace those who don't want to get vaccinated is perfectly okay. Other countries don't need them as much, but when it comes to nhs staff - it is not okay. Other countries need them. Got it
I am not trying to mock anyone, I'm just sick and tired of being mocked by people who love pointing fingers at the innocent. | |||
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" However, these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime. " How have these vaccines received more scrutiny than the approval process requires? | |||
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"Do you campaign on the risks, complications and deaths of all vaccines to be publicised? (As they all have them) Did you do that before Covid? I know the answer. You didn’t. Hopefully because you knew they are infinitesimally small and so insignificant that putting oxygen on them would actually cost many many more lives by putting people off getting life saving shot. " | |||
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" However, these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime. How have these vaccines received more scrutiny than the approval process requires?" Where does the post you're quoting say that? E | |||
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"Should any death with 28 days of having the vaccine should count as a vaccine death? Seems to work the other way when recording deaths. Discuss.. (nicely if possible) No. And it shouldn’t work the other way either. But your infinitely small amount of genuine knowledge about this subject means you probably don’t know enough about the data to suggest that any kind of numbers are being attributed to the virus. Let’s stop blowing up crap we hear online into the majority fact, yeah? "Well said. Could not have put it better myself. More attempt at scaremongering. Leys wait for the evidential facts are out there to see if concerns should be raised or not | |||
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"If it's shown via autopsy what the specific cause of death was, yes why not.. Might quell some of the misinformation that's evidently bring spread.. Just like they did with covid deaths!!
To be fair the people who are recorded as having died due to covid, are not having a positive test and then randomly keeling over 4 weeks later.
Actually the majority are keeling over within the first few days, if you look at the data plotted on a graph the incidence reduces in a smooth curve.
I've not seen any graphs of deaths against "infected time", but I have seen reports that most covid deaths happen in hospital.
The big demonstration of the severity of covid deaths was the huge spikes compared with the 5 year average. These spikes occurred in line with the first two infection spikes, and equated to around 40% more excess deaths than the figure published as "covid deaths".
Currently the weekly deaths (from any cause) are running below the well 5 year average, which again reinforces the concept that these vaccines are not a safety concern. After 70 million jabs, if it was dangerous that would have presented itself in the figures.
Cal
Yes. Nightingale hospitals that were built solely for covid patients sat empty and were never used while some normal hospitals were called Nightingale and accepted covid as well as non covid patients by only segregating wards.
What could possibly go wrong?
I personally know a few people who went in with a stroke, a heart attack, old age related problems covid free and died in a hospital after catching it. In the hospital.
Nightingale hospitals were a bit of a White Elephant. Like many things conceived by politicians, the basic idea was ok but the reality was not. There was never enough trained professionals available to staff them. If there had been, and all covid patients went to Nightingale hospitals, then lives would have been saved.
Thankfully though, we never reached the point (thanks to lockdowns) where there wasn't enough capacity in hospitals to take the patients. "Very true thank the Lord but we were very close | |||
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" However, these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime. How have these vaccines received more scrutiny than the approval process requires? Where does the post you're quoting say that? E" "Of course not. However, these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime. They've been rigorousley tested and trialled, the results recorded and "signed off", the vaccines have been approved in every country they're being used in. Risk mitigation. We do it every day, just not under this much of a microscope. E“ | |||
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" However, these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime. How have these vaccines received more scrutiny than the approval process requires? Where does the post you're quoting say that? E "Of course not. However, these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime. They've been rigorousley tested and trialled, the results recorded and "signed off", the vaccines have been approved in every country they're being used in. Risk mitigation. We do it every day, just not under this much of a microscope. E“ " So my post doesn't say "these vaccines received more scrutiny than the approval process requires?" Thanks, I thought I was losing my mind. Appreciated. E | |||
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" However, these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime. How have these vaccines received more scrutiny than the approval process requires? Where does the post you're quoting say that? E "Of course not. However, these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime. They've been rigorousley tested and trialled, the results recorded and "signed off", the vaccines have been approved in every country they're being used in. Risk mitigation. We do it every day, just not under this much of a microscope. E“ So my post doesn't say "these vaccines received more scrutiny than the approval process requires?" Thanks, I thought I was losing my mind. Appreciated. E" No, you worded it as “ these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime” More scrutiny than any other…. So, how much more scrutiny than any other vaccine …what have they done that is more than they have done for other vaccines ? | |||
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"Even if it's true you'll never find out because big pharma is way too powerful " | |||
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"**BACK UP AND REWIND** Does anybody know the after effects from the vaccine's just say after 12months, 18months, 24 months or in the long run how it may effect the future generation. " frankly I think people are past caring.I know I am!..life is full of risk..you smoke, drink, stand on tall buildings, climb something ,drive too fast just once maybe to test the new car/bike out? , get into a fight, swim after eating..or fall over and split your skull after a cheeky vimto or two .Maybe nasty tackle on a Sunday morning at the footy or rugger or even just fall over the dog on a nice walk ! point is no one sits and thinks about the risk of doing 'life' things if we did we would do nothing at all would we?.and if we don't do the vaccine thing that's what will happen..we will keep doing nothing which is not the way anyone wants to spend their lives..sure we could sit indoors watching box sets and playing games forever..but how tedious and wasteful of a life that would be!far better to bite the bullet take whatever risk there is or isn't associated with this vaccine and just get on with living again which is what I think most of the population now want to do..the people who don't take the vaccine are frankly just now slowing everyone and everything else down now..which becomes both more tedious and irritating to me by the day | |||
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" However, these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime. How have these vaccines received more scrutiny than the approval process requires? Where does the post you're quoting say that? E "Of course not. However, these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime. They've been rigorousley tested and trialled, the results recorded and "signed off", the vaccines have been approved in every country they're being used in. Risk mitigation. We do it every day, just not under this much of a microscope. E“ So my post doesn't say "these vaccines received more scrutiny than the approval process requires?" Thanks, I thought I was losing my mind. Appreciated. E No, you worded it as “ these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime” More scrutiny than any other…. So, how much more scrutiny than any other vaccine …what have they done that is more than they have done for other vaccines ?" Who are "they"? I'm aware you're trying to put words I didn't say into my mouth. E | |||
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" However, these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime. How have these vaccines received more scrutiny than the approval process requires? Where does the post you're quoting say that? E "Of course not. However, these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime. They've been rigorousley tested and trialled, the results recorded and "signed off", the vaccines have been approved in every country they're being used in. Risk mitigation. We do it every day, just not under this much of a microscope. E“ So my post doesn't say "these vaccines received more scrutiny than the approval process requires?" Thanks, I thought I was losing my mind. Appreciated. E No, you worded it as “ these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime” More scrutiny than any other…. So, how much more scrutiny than any other vaccine …what have they done that is more than they have done for other vaccines ? Who are "they"? I'm aware you're trying to put words I didn't say into my mouth. E" what have the MHRA scrutinised more for these vaccines than they, the MHRA, scrutinised for all other vaccines in our lifetime? | |||
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" However, these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime. How have these vaccines received more scrutiny than the approval process requires? Where does the post you're quoting say that? E "Of course not. However, these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime. They've been rigorousley tested and trialled, the results recorded and "signed off", the vaccines have been approved in every country they're being used in. Risk mitigation. We do it every day, just not under this much of a microscope. E“ So my post doesn't say "these vaccines received more scrutiny than the approval process requires?" Thanks, I thought I was losing my mind. Appreciated. E No, you worded it as “ these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime” More scrutiny than any other…. So, how much more scrutiny than any other vaccine …what have they done that is more than they have done for other vaccines ? Who are "they"? I'm aware you're trying to put words I didn't say into my mouth. E what have the MHRA scrutinised more for these vaccines than they, the MHRA, scrutinised for all other vaccines in our lifetime? " Can you point to where I stated the MHRA, or any regulatory authority for that matter? E | |||
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" However, these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime. How have these vaccines received more scrutiny than the approval process requires? Where does the post you're quoting say that? E "Of course not. However, these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime. They've been rigorousley tested and trialled, the results recorded and "signed off", the vaccines have been approved in every country they're being used in. Risk mitigation. We do it every day, just not under this much of a microscope. E“ So my post doesn't say "these vaccines received more scrutiny than the approval process requires?" Thanks, I thought I was losing my mind. Appreciated. E No, you worded it as “ these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime” More scrutiny than any other…. So, how much more scrutiny than any other vaccine …what have they done that is more than they have done for other vaccines ? Who are "they"? I'm aware you're trying to put words I didn't say into my mouth. E what have the MHRA scrutinised more for these vaccines than they, the MHRA, scrutinised for all other vaccines in our lifetime? Can you point to where I stated the MHRA, or any regulatory authority for that matter? E" Who then is undertaking the scrutiny you refer to when you said, “ these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime.“? | |||
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"**BACK UP AND REWIND** Does anybody know the after effects from the vaccine's just say after 12months, 18months, 24 months or in the long run how it may effect the future generation. " Bearing in mind that the beginning of the vaccine trials started in March 2020, there actually is 15 months of "long term" data. | |||
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" However, these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime. How have these vaccines received more scrutiny than the approval process requires? Where does the post you're quoting say that? E "Of course not. However, these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime. They've been rigorousley tested and trialled, the results recorded and "signed off", the vaccines have been approved in every country they're being used in. Risk mitigation. We do it every day, just not under this much of a microscope. E“ So my post doesn't say "these vaccines received more scrutiny than the approval process requires?" Thanks, I thought I was losing my mind. Appreciated. E No, you worded it as “ these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime” More scrutiny than any other…. So, how much more scrutiny than any other vaccine …what have they done that is more than they have done for other vaccines ? Who are "they"? I'm aware you're trying to put words I didn't say into my mouth. E what have the MHRA scrutinised more for these vaccines than they, the MHRA, scrutinised for all other vaccines in our lifetime? Can you point to where I stated the MHRA, or any regulatory authority for that matter? E Who then is undertaking the scrutiny you refer to when you said, “ these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime.“?" Various organisations have been actively pushing questionnaires and surveys at people who have had "any" side-effects to their jab. I have seen links on various social media sites as well as mainstream news sites. These links have been to NHS and Public Health England. Other countries are obviously doing their own, and I have seen links to a CDC one and one from ECDC who I believe are a European health organisation. Cal | |||
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" However, these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime. How have these vaccines received more scrutiny than the approval process requires? Where does the post you're quoting say that? E "Of course not. However, these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime. They've been rigorousley tested and trialled, the results recorded and "signed off", the vaccines have been approved in every country they're being used in. Risk mitigation. We do it every day, just not under this much of a microscope. E“ So my post doesn't say "these vaccines received more scrutiny than the approval process requires?" Thanks, I thought I was losing my mind. Appreciated. E No, you worded it as “ these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime” More scrutiny than any other…. So, how much more scrutiny than any other vaccine …what have they done that is more than they have done for other vaccines ? Who are "they"? I'm aware you're trying to put words I didn't say into my mouth. E what have the MHRA scrutinised more for these vaccines than they, the MHRA, scrutinised for all other vaccines in our lifetime? Can you point to where I stated the MHRA, or any regulatory authority for that matter? E Who then is undertaking the scrutiny you refer to when you said, “ these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime.“? Various organisations have been actively pushing questionnaires and surveys at people who have had "any" side-effects to their jab. I have seen links on various social media sites as well as mainstream news sites. These links have been to NHS and Public Health England. Other countries are obviously doing their own, and I have seen links to a CDC one and one from ECDC who I believe are a European health organisation. Cal"
Covid Zoe have been doing surveys on many issues related to the virus, diet to mental health etc..
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"**BACK UP AND REWIND** Does anybody know the after effects from the vaccine's just say after 12months, 18months, 24 months or in the long run how it may effect the future generation. frankly I think people are past caring.I know I am!..life is full of risk..you smoke, drink, stand on tall buildings, climb something ,drive too fast just once maybe to test the new car/bike out? , get into a fight, swim after eating..or fall over and split your skull after a cheeky vimto or two .Maybe nasty tackle on a Sunday morning at the footy or rugger or even just fall over the dog on a nice walk ! point is no one sits and thinks about the risk of doing 'life' things if we did we would do nothing at all would we?.and if we don't do the vaccine thing that's what will happen..we will keep doing nothing which is not the way anyone wants to spend their lives..sure we could sit indoors watching box sets and playing games forever..but how tedious and wasteful of a life that would be!far better to bite the bullet take whatever risk there is or isn't associated with this vaccine and just get on with living again which is what I think most of the population now want to do..the people who don't take the vaccine are frankly just now slowing everyone and everything else down now..which becomes both more tedious and irritating to me by the day " There are plenty of people who want the vaccine and can't get it.... Why are we wasting breath and energy on people who don't.? When we've done everyone who wants it twice and a booster for winter..... Until then we don't need to worry about those who can't or don't want it. | |||
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" However, these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime. How have these vaccines received more scrutiny than the approval process requires? Where does the post you're quoting say that? E "Of course not. However, these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime. They've been rigorousley tested and trialled, the results recorded and "signed off", the vaccines have been approved in every country they're being used in. Risk mitigation. We do it every day, just not under this much of a microscope. E“ So my post doesn't say "these vaccines received more scrutiny than the approval process requires?" Thanks, I thought I was losing my mind. Appreciated. E No, you worded it as “ these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime” More scrutiny than any other…. So, how much more scrutiny than any other vaccine …what have they done that is more than they have done for other vaccines ? Who are "they"? I'm aware you're trying to put words I didn't say into my mouth. E what have the MHRA scrutinised more for these vaccines than they, the MHRA, scrutinised for all other vaccines in our lifetime? Can you point to where I stated the MHRA, or any regulatory authority for that matter? E Who then is undertaking the scrutiny you refer to when you said, “ these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime.“? Various organisations have been actively pushing questionnaires and surveys at people who have had "any" side-effects to their jab. I have seen links on various social media sites as well as mainstream news sites. These links have been to NHS and Public Health England. Other countries are obviously doing their own, and I have seen links to a CDC one and one from ECDC who I believe are a European health organisation. Cal" Totally agree. I just wonder though if it is wholly truthful if we start suggesting, with whatever wording it may be, that these vaccines are in some way even more scrutinised than others that have come before them. Vaccines are safe because they have all been subjected to the same process/programme - there is no need to over egg the pudding. | |||
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"Should any death with 28 days of having the vaccine should count as a vaccine death? Seems to work the other way when recording deaths. Discuss.. (nicely if possible) No. And it shouldn’t work the other way either. But your infinitely small amount of genuine knowledge about this subject means you probably don’t know enough about the data to suggest that any kind of numbers are being attributed to the virus. Let’s stop blowing up crap we hear online into the majority fact, yeah?
I don't profess to be any kind of expert.. I asked a simple question.
Well I think we can all agree that you've successfully shown you're not any kind of expert so well played on that front
It really did take long did it, before a keyboard warrior pipes up.
This section of the forum really brings the worst out in people.
Can't have a discussion on here without getting lambasted.
"I am prepared to have a conversation with anyone about the vaccine as long as you have a fundamental understanding of what the vaccine purpose actually is …. Anyone who keeps harping on about deaths in relation to covid and the vaccine doesn’t have that understanding | |||
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" However, these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime. How have these vaccines received more scrutiny than the approval process requires? Where does the post you're quoting say that? E "Of course not. However, these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime. They've been rigorousley tested and trialled, the results recorded and "signed off", the vaccines have been approved in every country they're being used in. Risk mitigation. We do it every day, just not under this much of a microscope. E“ So my post doesn't say "these vaccines received more scrutiny than the approval process requires?" Thanks, I thought I was losing my mind. Appreciated. E No, you worded it as “ these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime” More scrutiny than any other…. So, how much more scrutiny than any other vaccine …what have they done that is more than they have done for other vaccines ? Who are "they"? I'm aware you're trying to put words I didn't say into my mouth. E what have the MHRA scrutinised more for these vaccines than they, the MHRA, scrutinised for all other vaccines in our lifetime? Can you point to where I stated the MHRA, or any regulatory authority for that matter? E Who then is undertaking the scrutiny you refer to when you said, “ these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime.“? Various organisations have been actively pushing questionnaires and surveys at people who have had "any" side-effects to their jab. I have seen links on various social media sites as well as mainstream news sites. These links have been to NHS and Public Health England. Other countries are obviously doing their own, and I have seen links to a CDC one and one from ECDC who I believe are a European health organisation. Cal Totally agree. I just wonder though if it is wholly truthful if we start suggesting, with whatever wording it may be, that these vaccines are in some way even more scrutinised than others that have come before them. Vaccines are safe because they have all been subjected to the same process/programme - there is no need to over egg the pudding. " You're right. I think the semantics of our language are what win or lose credibility. Vaccines are safe? Or vaccines are very very low risk? Or better still... Vaccines are 1 in 1000 has side effects.. 1 in 10000 has serious side effects 1 in 100000 has life changing side effects 1 in 1000000 dies... (numbers made up)... Lets not hide the data, or be creative or biased with how it is collected... Let's win the argument by providing cold hard facts. | |||
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"Should any death with 28 days of having the vaccine should count as a vaccine death? Seems to work the other way when recording deaths. Discuss.. (nicely if possible) No. And it shouldn’t work the other way either. But your infinitely small amount of genuine knowledge about this subject means you probably don’t know enough about the data to suggest that any kind of numbers are being attributed to the virus. Let’s stop blowing up crap we hear online into the majority fact, yeah?
I don't profess to be any kind of expert.. I asked a simple question.
Well I think we can all agree that you've successfully shown you're not any kind of expert so well played on that front
It really did take long did it, before a keyboard warrior pipes up.
This section of the forum really brings the worst out in people.
Can't have a discussion on here without getting lambasted.
Forum name shouldn't be called "virus" it should be called "bullies".
Honestly the amount of hate on here is just ungodly "This. | |||
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"Should any death with 28 days of having the vaccine should count as a vaccine death? Seems to work the other way when recording deaths. Discuss.. (nicely if possible) " Regardless of which measure is settled on there should without question be a fully consistent approach to enable a direct comparison. That is the ONLY way to address myths and misinformation and allow anyone who is vaccine hesitant to make an informed decision. | |||
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"**BACK UP AND REWIND** Does anybody know the after effects from the vaccine's just say after 12months, 18months, 24 months or in the long run how it may effect the future generation. Of course not. However, these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime. " Others would disagree with that statement and say there are gaping holes in the data collected, scrutiny thereof, and lack of transparency. | |||
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"If it's shown via autopsy what the specific cause of death was, yes why not.. Might quell some of the misinformation that's evidently bring spread.. Just like they did with covid deaths!!
To be fair the people who are recorded as having died due to covid, are not having a positive test and then randomly keeling over 4 weeks later.
Actually the majority are keeling over within the first few days, if you look at the data plotted on a graph the incidence reduces in a smooth curve.
I've not seen any graphs of deaths against "infected time", but I have seen reports that most covid deaths happen in hospital.
The big demonstration of the severity of covid deaths was the huge spikes compared with the 5 year average. These spikes occurred in line with the first two infection spikes, and equated to around 40% more excess deaths than the figure published as "covid deaths".
Currently the weekly deaths (from any cause) are running below the well 5 year average, which again reinforces the concept that these vaccines are not a safety concern. After 70 million jabs, if it was dangerous that would have presented itself in the figures.
Cal
Yes. Nightingale hospitals that were built solely for covid patients sat empty and were never used while some normal hospitals were called Nightingale and accepted covid as well as non covid patients by only segregating wards.
What could possibly go wrong?
I personally know a few people who went in with a stroke, a heart attack, old age related problems covid free and died in a hospital after catching it. In the hospital.
Nightingale hospitals were a bit of a White Elephant. Like many things conceived by politicians, the basic idea was ok but the reality was not. There was never enough trained professionals available to staff them. If there had been, and all covid patients went to Nightingale hospitals, then lives would have been saved.
Thankfully though, we never reached the point (thanks to lockdowns) where there wasn't enough capacity in hospitals to take the patients. "Actually the Nightingales served two purposes: 1. Political propaganda (hey look what we are doing aren't we great - but hey ignore lack of staff or even adequate toilets) 2. Another opportunity to monetise the crisis for Tory cronies (check out which companies secured the refit contracts and their connections) | |||
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"My dad died from spinal cancer a year ago and for some reason they put him down as a covid death. So I don't believe anythin anyone tells me. " I've heard of many similar cases - the true death toll is way lower than claimed, particularly aside from co-morbidities. | |||
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"Should any death with 28 days of having the vaccine should count as a vaccine death? Seems to work the other way when recording deaths. Discuss.. (nicely if possible) " Anyone who died within 28 days of a positive test was treated as a covid fatality. I'll not get into the particulars of the flawed PCR testing with high cycle threshold. It's only fair that anyone who is deceased within 28 days of being jabbed (first or second) with no serious underlying health conditions should be subjected to a rigorous autopsy to determine exact cause of death. | |||
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"**BACK UP AND REWIND** Does anybody know the after effects from the vaccine's just say after 12months, 18months, 24 months or in the long run how it may effect the future generation. frankly I think people are past caring.I know I am!..life is full of risk..you smoke, drink, stand on tall buildings, climb something ,drive too fast just once maybe to test the new car/bike out? , get into a fight, swim after eating..or fall over and split your skull after a cheeky vimto or two .Maybe nasty tackle on a Sunday morning at the footy or rugger or even just fall over the dog on a nice walk ! point is no one sits and thinks about the risk of doing 'life' things if we did we would do nothing at all would we?.and if we don't do the vaccine thing that's what will happen..we will keep doing nothing which is not the way anyone wants to spend their lives..sure we could sit indoors watching box sets and playing games forever..but how tedious and wasteful of a life that would be!far better to bite the bullet take whatever risk there is or isn't associated with this vaccine and just get on with living again which is what I think most of the population now want to do..the people who don't take the vaccine are frankly just now slowing everyone and everything else down now..which becomes both more tedious and irritating to me by the day There are plenty of people who want the vaccine and can't get it.... Why are we wasting breath and energy on people who don't.? When we've done everyone who wants it twice and a booster for winter..... Until then we don't need to worry about those who can't or don't want it. " why you so worried about us who don't want the jab? If your vaccinated you have no worries have you cos your vaccinated..thats if it actually works and id love to see what effects it has on you in a year or 5 down the line . | |||
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"Should any death with 28 days of having the vaccine should count as a vaccine death? Seems to work the other way when recording deaths. Discuss.. (nicely if possible) Regardless of which measure is settled on there should without question be a fully consistent approach to enable a direct comparison. That is the ONLY way to address myths and misinformation and allow anyone who is vaccine hesitant to make an informed decision. " Begs the question why they haven't standardised the reporting and made it available... Its really not that hard to do. For example one agreed set of age ranges....rather than a different set every week. | |||
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"Should any death with 28 days of having the vaccine should count as a vaccine death? Seems to work the other way when recording deaths. Discuss.. (nicely if possible) Anyone who died within 28 days of a positive test was treated as a covid fatality. I'll not get into the particulars of the flawed PCR testing with high cycle threshold. It's only fair that anyone who is deceased within 28 days of being jabbed (first or second) with no serious underlying health conditions should be subjected to a rigorous autopsy to determine exact cause of death." No that's simply not true. Lazy journos and lazy readers interpreted it that way. Or those with an agenda. After the first few months the reports were always reported on gov website as those who have died within 28 days of a positive covid test. Anything else you make of that information is down to you or others who either didn't understand that fact or chose to ignore it. | |||
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"Should any death with 28 days of having the vaccine should count as a vaccine death? Seems to work the other way when recording deaths. Discuss.. (nicely if possible) Regardless of which measure is settled on there should without question be a fully consistent approach to enable a direct comparison. That is the ONLY way to address myths and misinformation and allow anyone who is vaccine hesitant to make an informed decision. Begs the question why they haven't standardised the reporting and made it available... Its really not that hard to do. For example one agreed set of age ranges....rather than a different set every week. " One of the issues is that those propagating the misinformation also force the idea that nothing from any mainstream platforms can be believed. The way to address misinformation is to provide proof of the genuine information, but if you've been conditioned to not accept it, there is no changing of minds. Cal | |||
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"**BACK UP AND REWIND** Does anybody know the after effects from the vaccine's just say after 12months, 18months, 24 months or in the long run how it may effect the future generation. frankly I think people are past caring.I know I am!..life is full of risk..you smoke, drink, stand on tall buildings, climb something ,drive too fast just once maybe to test the new car/bike out? , get into a fight, swim after eating..or fall over and split your skull after a cheeky vimto or two .Maybe nasty tackle on a Sunday morning at the footy or rugger or even just fall over the dog on a nice walk ! point is no one sits and thinks about the risk of doing 'life' things if we did we would do nothing at all would we?.and if we don't do the vaccine thing that's what will happen..we will keep doing nothing which is not the way anyone wants to spend their lives..sure we could sit indoors watching box sets and playing games forever..but how tedious and wasteful of a life that would be!far better to bite the bullet take whatever risk there is or isn't associated with this vaccine and just get on with living again which is what I think most of the population now want to do..the people who don't take the vaccine are frankly just now slowing everyone and everything else down now..which becomes both more tedious and irritating to me by the day There are plenty of people who want the vaccine and can't get it.... Why are we wasting breath and energy on people who don't.? When we've done everyone who wants it twice and a booster for winter..... Until then we don't need to worry about those who can't or don't want it. why you so worried about us who don't want the jab? If your vaccinated you have no worries have you cos your vaccinated..thats if it actually works and id love to see what effects it has on you in a year or 5 down the line . " I persona couldn't give a hoot about those who make an informed decision not to get a vaccine. Hence my initial comment. And I do think its important to keep reviewing what if any Consequences there may be in 5 10 15 years time. And also what of any the effects of covid are in 5 10 15 years time. The important thing is transparency, data and quality communication. | |||
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"**BACK UP AND REWIND** Does anybody know the after effects from the vaccine's just say after 12months, 18months, 24 months or in the long run how it may effect the future generation. Of course not. However, these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime. Others would disagree with that statement and say there are gaping holes in the data collected, scrutiny thereof, and lack of transparency. " But not offer any evidence to backup their accusations? | |||
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"Should any death with 28 days of having the vaccine should count as a vaccine death? Seems to work the other way when recording deaths. Discuss.. (nicely if possible) Anyone who died within 28 days of a positive test was treated as a covid fatality. I'll not get into the particulars of the flawed PCR testing with high cycle threshold. It's only fair that anyone who is deceased within 28 days of being jabbed (first or second) with no serious underlying health conditions should be subjected to a rigorous autopsy to determine exact cause of death." For a direct comparison you would need to include everyone with serious underlying conditions. Rare blood clotting conditions are one thing, hard to differentiate strokes, heart attacks and blood clots in middle aged people - it should become more apparent the younger they get I would think. Teens should not be getting cardiomyopathy in any great number. | |||
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"**BACK UP AND REWIND** Does anybody know the after effects from the vaccine's just say after 12months, 18months, 24 months or in the long run how it may effect the future generation. frankly I think people are past caring.I know I am!..life is full of risk..you smoke, drink, stand on tall buildings, climb something ,drive too fast just once maybe to test the new car/bike out? , get into a fight, swim after eating..or fall over and split your skull after a cheeky vimto or two .Maybe nasty tackle on a Sunday morning at the footy or rugger or even just fall over the dog on a nice walk ! point is no one sits and thinks about the risk of doing 'life' things if we did we would do nothing at all would we?.and if we don't do the vaccine thing that's what will happen..we will keep doing nothing which is not the way anyone wants to spend their lives..sure we could sit indoors watching box sets and playing games forever..but how tedious and wasteful of a life that would be!far better to bite the bullet take whatever risk there is or isn't associated with this vaccine and just get on with living again which is what I think most of the population now want to do..the people who don't take the vaccine are frankly just now slowing everyone and everything else down now..which becomes both more tedious and irritating to me by the day There are plenty of people who want the vaccine and can't get it.... Why are we wasting breath and energy on people who don't.? When we've done everyone who wants it twice and a booster for winter..... Until then we don't need to worry about those who can't or don't want it. why you so worried about us who don't want the jab? If your vaccinated you have no worries have you cos your vaccinated..thats if it actually works and id love to see what effects it has on you in a year or 5 down the line . " Unfortunately we don't have a time machine to go forward 5 years. And equally we have no idea of the long term effects of catching covid especially asymptomatic covid. We have no idea of the effect long term of having covid antibodies be it from a vaccine or from natural infection. Anything else apart from antibodies in the vaccines should have left the body after a fairly short time. | |||
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"**BACK UP AND REWIND** Does anybody know the after effects from the vaccine's just say after 12months, 18months, 24 months or in the long run how it may effect the future generation. Of course not. However, these vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other in our lifetime. Others would disagree with that statement and say there are gaping holes in the data collected, scrutiny thereof, and lack of transparency. But not offer any evidence to backup their accusations?" Did you read what I wrote? You don't provide evidence for a call for more detailed data collection over a broader range of perameters. If you mean evidence of the call, I quoted the paper weeks ago when I saw it, listing the data required not currently being collected. | |||
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"Back to the original post - yes, it would only be fair to count the vaccine death toll same way as the virus death toll also publicly announce it daily! It would be extremely reassuing to those who are on the fence - they would see for themselves that vaccines are very safe to get and live with. If something works and is bulletproof why hide it? Why use random celebrities endorsements and Internet bullies instead of hard data? " Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you are saying here.... What do you mean by vaccine death toll? Are you suggesting: 1. ...that large numbers are dying because of the vaccine itself? Or: 2. ...people who have been vaccinated but are still dying from Covid? If it's 1. then the numbers are insignificantly small. If it's 2. then the data is there, though obviously data from new variants may be more scant and subject to ongoing revision -hence recent statements regarding the Delta variant released this week (underlining the fact that the vaccines are significantly effective against the Delata variant -but NOT 100%). I don't uderstand what you think is being hidden. | |||
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"**BACK UP AND REWIND** Does anybody know the after effects from the vaccine's just say after 12months, 18months, 24 months or in the long run how it may effect the future generation. frankly I think people are past caring.I know I am!..life is full of risk..you smoke, drink, stand on tall buildings, climb something ,drive too fast just once maybe to test the new car/bike out? , get into a fight, swim after eating..or fall over and split your skull after a cheeky vimto or two .Maybe nasty tackle on a Sunday morning at the footy or rugger or even just fall over the dog on a nice walk ! point is no one sits and thinks about the risk of doing 'life' things if we did we would do nothing at all would we?.and if we don't do the vaccine thing that's what will happen..we will keep doing nothing which is not the way anyone wants to spend their lives..sure we could sit indoors watching box sets and playing games forever..but how tedious and wasteful of a life that would be!far better to bite the bullet take whatever risk there is or isn't associated with this vaccine and just get on with living again which is what I think most of the population now want to do..the people who don't take the vaccine are frankly just now slowing everyone and everything else down now..which becomes both more tedious and irritating to me by the day There are plenty of people who want the vaccine and can't get it.... Why are we wasting breath and energy on people who don't.? When we've done everyone who wants it twice and a booster for winter..... Until then we don't need to worry about those who can't or don't want it. why you so worried about us who don't want the jab? If your vaccinated you have no worries have you cos your vaccinated..thats if it actually works and id love to see what effects it has on you in a year or 5 down the line . Unfortunately we don't have a time machine to go forward 5 years. And equally we have no idea of the long term effects of catching covid especially asymptomatic covid. We have no idea of the effect long term of having covid antibodies be it from a vaccine or from natural infection. Anything else apart from antibodies in the vaccines should have left the body after a fairly short time. " The antibodies only come when there is an infection | |||
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"**BACK UP AND REWIND** Does anybody know the after effects from the vaccine's just say after 12months, 18months, 24 months or in the long run how it may effect the future generation. frankly I think people are past caring.I know I am!..life is full of risk..you smoke, drink, stand on tall buildings, climb something ,drive too fast just once maybe to test the new car/bike out? , get into a fight, swim after eating..or fall over and split your skull after a cheeky vimto or two .Maybe nasty tackle on a Sunday morning at the footy or rugger or even just fall over the dog on a nice walk ! point is no one sits and thinks about the risk of doing 'life' things if we did we would do nothing at all would we?.and if we don't do the vaccine thing that's what will happen..we will keep doing nothing which is not the way anyone wants to spend their lives..sure we could sit indoors watching box sets and playing games forever..but how tedious and wasteful of a life that would be!far better to bite the bullet take whatever risk there is or isn't associated with this vaccine and just get on with living again which is what I think most of the population now want to do..the people who don't take the vaccine are frankly just now slowing everyone and everything else down now..which becomes both more tedious and irritating to me by the day There are plenty of people who want the vaccine and can't get it.... Why are we wasting breath and energy on people who don't.? When we've done everyone who wants it twice and a booster for winter..... Until then we don't need to worry about those who can't or don't want it. why you so worried about us who don't want the jab? If your vaccinated you have no worries have you cos your vaccinated..thats if it actually works and id love to see what effects it has on you in a year or 5 down the line . Unfortunately we don't have a time machine to go forward 5 years. And equally we have no idea of the long term effects of catching covid especially asymptomatic covid. We have no idea of the effect long term of having covid antibodies be it from a vaccine or from natural infection. Anything else apart from antibodies in the vaccines should have left the body after a fairly short time. " That is disputed though, evidence grows for longer effects in more tissues, hence the raising of concerns. | |||
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"**BACK UP AND REWIND** Does anybody know the after effects from the vaccine's just say after 12months, 18months, 24 months or in the long run how it may effect the future generation. frankly I think people are past caring.I know I am!..life is full of risk..you smoke, drink, stand on tall buildings, climb something ,drive too fast just once maybe to test the new car/bike out? , get into a fight, swim after eating..or fall over and split your skull after a cheeky vimto or two .Maybe nasty tackle on a Sunday morning at the footy or rugger or even just fall over the dog on a nice walk ! point is no one sits and thinks about the risk of doing 'life' things if we did we would do nothing at all would we?.and if we don't do the vaccine thing that's what will happen..we will keep doing nothing which is not the way anyone wants to spend their lives..sure we could sit indoors watching box sets and playing games forever..but how tedious and wasteful of a life that would be!far better to bite the bullet take whatever risk there is or isn't associated with this vaccine and just get on with living again which is what I think most of the population now want to do..the people who don't take the vaccine are frankly just now slowing everyone and everything else down now..which becomes both more tedious and irritating to me by the day There are plenty of people who want the vaccine and can't get it.... Why are we wasting breath and energy on people who don't.? When we've done everyone who wants it twice and a booster for winter..... Until then we don't need to worry about those who can't or don't want it. why you so worried about us who don't want the jab? If your vaccinated you have no worries have you cos your vaccinated..thats if it actually works and id love to see what effects it has on you in a year or 5 down the line . Unfortunately we don't have a time machine to go forward 5 years. And equally we have no idea of the long term effects of catching covid especially asymptomatic covid. We have no idea of the effect long term of having covid antibodies be it from a vaccine or from natural infection. Anything else apart from antibodies in the vaccines should have left the body after a fairly short time. " I'm fairly certain there is no detriment to having antibodies, they are created by your own body as a response to an antigen. The antibodies from a vaccine are still created by your own body, it's just the antigen that is not "natural". Cal | |||
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"Back to the original post - yes, it would only be fair to count the vaccine death toll same way as the virus death toll also publicly announce it daily! It would be extremely reassuing to those who are on the fence - they would see for themselves that vaccines are very safe to get and live with. If something works and is bulletproof why hide it? Why use random celebrities endorsements and Internet bullies instead of hard data? Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you are saying here.... What do you mean by vaccine death toll? Are you suggesting: 1. ...that large numbers are dying because of the vaccine itself? Or: 2. ...people who have been vaccinated but are still dying from Covid? If it's 1. then the numbers are insignificantly small. " You cannot say that though, with 1200 reported in this country. 5000 in the US and 13000 in Europe. A lot of these if not most are reported by medics in good faith so cannot simply be dismissed as irrelevant. | |||
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"Should any death with 28 days of having the vaccine should count as a vaccine death? Seems to work the other way when recording deaths. Discuss.. (nicely if possible) Regardless of which measure is settled on there should without question be a fully consistent approach to enable a direct comparison. That is the ONLY way to address myths and misinformation and allow anyone who is vaccine hesitant to make an informed decision. Begs the question why they haven't standardised the reporting and made it available... Its really not that hard to do. For example one agreed set of age ranges....rather than a different set every week. " Because they don’t want us to! It is part of the behavioural science toolkit to nudge behaviour. It isn’t misinformation but it is mixed methodologies to maintain a lack of clarity. | |||
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"Should any death with 28 days of having the vaccine should count as a vaccine death? Seems to work the other way when recording deaths. Discuss.. (nicely if possible) " Are people still not aware that the 28 days was just a quick ball park figure. The more accurate covid on the death certificate was also counted, but took longer to collect that data. | |||
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"**BACK UP AND REWIND** Does anybody know the after effects from the vaccine's just say after 12months, 18months, 24 months or in the long run how it may effect the future generation. frankly I think people are past caring.I know I am!..life is full of risk..you smoke, drink, stand on tall buildings, climb something ,drive too fast just once maybe to test the new car/bike out? , get into a fight, swim after eating..or fall over and split your skull after a cheeky vimto or two .Maybe nasty tackle on a Sunday morning at the footy or rugger or even just fall over the dog on a nice walk ! point is no one sits and thinks about the risk of doing 'life' things if we did we would do nothing at all would we?.and if we don't do the vaccine thing that's what will happen..we will keep doing nothing which is not the way anyone wants to spend their lives..sure we could sit indoors watching box sets and playing games forever..but how tedious and wasteful of a life that would be!far better to bite the bullet take whatever risk there is or isn't associated with this vaccine and just get on with living again which is what I think most of the population now want to do..the people who don't take the vaccine are frankly just now slowing everyone and everything else down now..which becomes both more tedious and irritating to me by the day There are plenty of people who want the vaccine and can't get it.... Why are we wasting breath and energy on people who don't.? When we've done everyone who wants it twice and a booster for winter..... Until then we don't need to worry about those who can't or don't want it. why you so worried about us who don't want the jab? If your vaccinated you have no worries have you cos your vaccinated..thats if it actually works and id love to see what effects it has on you in a year or 5 down the line . Unfortunately we don't have a time machine to go forward 5 years. And equally we have no idea of the long term effects of catching covid especially asymptomatic covid. We have no idea of the effect long term of having covid antibodies be it from a vaccine or from natural infection. Anything else apart from antibodies in the vaccines should have left the body after a fairly short time. I'm fairly certain there is no detriment to having antibodies, they are created by your own body as a response to an antigen. The antibodies from a vaccine are still created by your own body, it's just the antigen that is not "natural". Cal" They are only produced when the antigen is there. Then it is remembered from by the t cells. If the virus tries to enter the body again antibodies are then produced again. As your immune system detects the threat. | |||
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"**BACK UP AND REWIND** Does anybody know the after effects from the vaccine's just say after 12months, 18months, 24 months or in the long run how it may effect the future generation. frankly I think people are past caring.I know I am!..life is full of risk..you smoke, drink, stand on tall buildings, climb something ,drive too fast just once maybe to test the new car/bike out? , get into a fight, swim after eating..or fall over and split your skull after a cheeky vimto or two .Maybe nasty tackle on a Sunday morning at the footy or rugger or even just fall over the dog on a nice walk ! point is no one sits and thinks about the risk of doing 'life' things if we did we would do nothing at all would we?.and if we don't do the vaccine thing that's what will happen..we will keep doing nothing which is not the way anyone wants to spend their lives..sure we could sit indoors watching box sets and playing games forever..but how tedious and wasteful of a life that would be!far better to bite the bullet take whatever risk there is or isn't associated with this vaccine and just get on with living again which is what I think most of the population now want to do..the people who don't take the vaccine are frankly just now slowing everyone and everything else down now..which becomes both more tedious and irritating to me by the day There are plenty of people who want the vaccine and can't get it.... Why are we wasting breath and energy on people who don't.? When we've done everyone who wants it twice and a booster for winter..... Until then we don't need to worry about those who can't or don't want it. why you so worried about us who don't want the jab? If your vaccinated you have no worries have you cos your vaccinated..thats if it actually works and id love to see what effects it has on you in a year or 5 down the line . Unfortunately we don't have a time machine to go forward 5 years. And equally we have no idea of the long term effects of catching covid especially asymptomatic covid. We have no idea of the effect long term of having covid antibodies be it from a vaccine or from natural infection. Anything else apart from antibodies in the vaccines should have left the body after a fairly short time. I'm fairly certain there is no detriment to having antibodies, they are created by your own body as a response to an antigen. The antibodies from a vaccine are still created by your own body, it's just the antigen that is not "natural". Cal They are only produced when the antigen is there. Then it is remembered from by the t cells. If the virus tries to enter the body again antibodies are then produced again. As your immune system detects the threat." Yes, I was trying to explain that they are created by your own body rather than introduced by the vaccine. | |||
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" I'll not get into the particulars of the flawed PCR testing with high cycle threshold. " Mainly because you have no idea what a Ct actually is  | |||
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"**BACK UP AND REWIND** Does anybody know the after effects from the vaccine's just say after 12months, 18months, 24 months or in the long run how it may effect the future generation. frankly I think people are past caring.I know I am!..life is full of risk..you smoke, drink, stand on tall buildings, climb something ,drive too fast just once maybe to test the new car/bike out? , get into a fight, swim after eating..or fall over and split your skull after a cheeky vimto or two .Maybe nasty tackle on a Sunday morning at the footy or rugger or even just fall over the dog on a nice walk ! point is no one sits and thinks about the risk of doing 'life' things if we did we would do nothing at all would we?.and if we don't do the vaccine thing that's what will happen..we will keep doing nothing which is not the way anyone wants to spend their lives..sure we could sit indoors watching box sets and playing games forever..but how tedious and wasteful of a life that would be!far better to bite the bullet take whatever risk there is or isn't associated with this vaccine and just get on with living again which is what I think most of the population now want to do..the people who don't take the vaccine are frankly just now slowing everyone and everything else down now..which becomes both more tedious and irritating to me by the day There are plenty of people who want the vaccine and can't get it.... Why are we wasting breath and energy on people who don't.? When we've done everyone who wants it twice and a booster for winter..... Until then we don't need to worry about those who can't or don't want it. why you so worried about us who don't want the jab? If your vaccinated you have no worries have you cos your vaccinated..thats if it actually works and id love to see what effects it has on you in a year or 5 down the line . Unfortunately we don't have a time machine to go forward 5 years. And equally we have no idea of the long term effects of catching covid especially asymptomatic covid. We have no idea of the effect long term of having covid antibodies be it from a vaccine or from natural infection. Anything else apart from antibodies in the vaccines should have left the body after a fairly short time. I'm fairly certain there is no detriment to having antibodies, they are created by your own body as a response to an antigen. The antibodies from a vaccine are still created by your own body, it's just the antigen that is not "natural". Cal They are only produced when the antigen is there. Then it is remembered from by the t cells. If the virus tries to enter the body again antibodies are then produced again. As your immune system detects the threat. Yes, I was trying to explain that they are created by your own body rather than introduced by the vaccine. " My point was that the antibodies leave the your system too and are produced again when the threat returns | |||
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"Back to the original post - yes, it would only be fair to count the vaccine death toll same way as the virus death toll also publicly announce it daily! It would be extremely reassuing to those who are on the fence - they would see for themselves that vaccines are very safe to get and live with. If something works and is bulletproof why hide it? Why use random celebrities endorsements and Internet bullies instead of hard data? Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you are saying here.... What do you mean by vaccine death toll? Are you suggesting: 1. ...that large numbers are dying because of the vaccine itself? Or: 2. ...people who have been vaccinated but are still dying from Covid? If it's 1. then the numbers are insignificantly small. If it's 2. then the data is there, though obviously data from new variants may be more scant and subject to ongoing revision -hence recent statements regarding the Delta variant released this week (underlining the fact that the vaccines are significantly effective against the Delata variant -but NOT 100%). I don't uderstand what you think is being hidden." Number one of course! Anyone who dies of any cause within 28 days of getting a vaccine. Exactly the same as covid deaths are counted: Anyone who dies of any cause within 28 days of testing positive. Fair is fair, no matter how much one may not like the truth. It's not hidden at all, but it's not being publically announced through all media daily. If it was - I'm sure many more people would be eager to get vaccinated!  | |||
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"Should any death with 28 days of having the vaccine should count as a vaccine death? Seems to work the other way when recording deaths. Discuss.. (nicely if possible) Regardless of which measure is settled on there should without question be a fully consistent approach to enable a direct comparison. That is the ONLY way to address myths and misinformation and allow anyone who is vaccine hesitant to make an informed decision. Begs the question why they haven't standardised the reporting and made it available... Its really not that hard to do. For example one agreed set of age ranges....rather than a different set every week. Because they don’t want us to! It is part of the behavioural science toolkit to nudge behaviour. It isn’t misinformation but it is mixed methodologies to maintain a lack of clarity." I agree with what they are doing and agree that some of it is deliberate and some of it is just incompetence. But I don't agree that the outcome... Because it creates space for distrust and misinformation which then is counter intuitive. . And the only reason that makes any sense to me that they do it deliberately is that the significant numbers and the trends in significant numbers are not the way they want them to be. For example they don't want a wave so deny it.... Then scientists unanimously say we need to slow down... So they then need a wave to justify a delay... Then they realise fuck me... There really is a wave... Let's not make it too big as it will show our strategy up as flawed... Or the bullcrap about youngsters that has been going for 16 months and pretty much without any measured data to back it up. | |||
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"B lymphocytes remember previously produced antibodies. T lymphocytes actively destroy infected cells (those with attached antibodies) and also signal the rest of the immune system that an infection is there. Mature T lymphocytes are produced in the Thymus. The same organ that deteriorates with age, so that later in life an aged body is unable to produce sufficient T lymphocytes to fight infection, or cancer, effectively." Thanks for clearing that up. | |||
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"If it's shown via autopsy what the specific cause of death was, yes why not.. Might quell some of the misinformation that's evidently bring spread.. Just like they did with covid deaths!!
Well said
To be fair the people who are recorded as having died due to covid, are not having a positive test and then randomly keeling over 4 weeks later.
Actually the majority are keeling over within the first few days, if you look at the data plotted on a graph the incidence reduces in a smooth curve.
I've not seen any graphs of deaths against "infected time", but I have seen reports that most covid deaths happen in hospital.
The big demonstration of the severity of covid deaths was the huge spikes compared with the 5 year average. These spikes occurred in line with the first two infection spikes, and equated to around 40% more excess deaths than the figure published as "covid deaths".
Currently the weekly deaths (from any cause) are running below the well 5 year average, which again reinforces the concept that these vaccines are not a safety concern. After 70 million jabs, if it was dangerous that would have presented itself in the figures.
Cal
Yes. Nightingale hospitals that were built solely for covid patients sat empty and were never used while some normal hospitals were called Nightingale and accepted covid as well as non covid patients by only segregating wards.
What could possibly go wrong?
I personally know a few people who went in with a stroke, a heart attack, old age related problems covid free and died in a hospital after catching it. In the hospital.
Nightingale hospitals were a bit of a White Elephant. Like many things conceived by politicians, the basic idea was ok but the reality was not. There was never enough trained professionals available to staff them. If there had been, and all covid patients went to Nightingale hospitals, then lives would have been saved.
Thankfully though, we never reached the point (thanks to lockdowns) where there wasn't enough capacity in hospitals to take the patients.
Yes, because those who went in without covid and died from catching it in the hospital were freeing up them beds quite efficiently.
Also are you saying that government didn't have enough funds to ship some extra staff over from other countries? That same government who made millions dissappear? please tell me more about how genuinely they've been trying to "save lives"
I think "Also are you saying that government didn't have enough funds to ship some extra staff over from other countries?" is the flaw in your argument, bearing in mind every other country was in the same boat regarding trained and skilled staff to deal with their own Covid situations.
Regarding the Nightingale hospitals, I'm glad we had them but didn't have to use them, opposed to not having them and needing them.
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"I think that it's time now to just ignore and forget about anyone that doesn't want to be vaccinated. Leave them be, no point in wasting energy trying to persuade anybody. Let's concentrate instead on getting vaccines into the overwhelming majority that want to be jabbed, so that we can all get our lives back on track. However any quack doctors that spread misinformation and deliberately try to derail the efforts to save lives and rebuild the economy should be cracked down on and censured. Any pedalling "cures" that are no such thing should be investigated for medical malpractice, if found to have profited from causing harm then should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. If someone just quietly wants to disbelieve in treatment that could save their life, well there is no point in trying to force anything upon them. As long as they live (or die) with the consequences of their decision, and are not actively harming others, just give their vaccine dose to someone that does want it." Although I fully agree with your intentions um afraid I can't fully agree. Their decision does affect others as the none vaccinated could be spreading the virus covertly. They are the problem and they should be held accountable. | |||
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"I think that it's time now to just ignore and forget about anyone that doesn't want to be vaccinated. Leave them be, no point in wasting energy trying to persuade anybody. Let's concentrate instead on getting vaccines into the overwhelming majority that want to be jabbed, so that we can all get our lives back on track. However any quack doctors that spread misinformation and deliberately try to derail the efforts to save lives and rebuild the economy should be cracked down on and censured. Any pedalling "cures" that are no such thing should be investigated for medical malpractice, if found to have profited from causing harm then should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. If someone just quietly wants to disbelieve in treatment that could save their life, well there is no point in trying to force anything upon them. As long as they live (or die) with the consequences of their decision, and are not actively harming others, just give their vaccine dose to someone that does want it. Although I fully agree with your intentions um afraid I can't fully agree. Their decision does affect others as the none vaccinated could be spreading the virus covertly. They are the problem and they should be held accountable." I totally agree about the danger of them contributing to the spread. However it does seem that the vax takeup is very considerable so hopefully we can achieve some measure of herd immunity regardless. I just feel that we're getting to a point where it is becoming counter-productive even having the discussion with the anti-vaxxers, to some extent it would be better to just deny the oxygen of publicity. Let anyone that clearly states they don't want to be vaccinated get on with their lives, but crack down hard on any that insist on spreading misinformation, and especially hard on any of the quack medical practices that actively hurt people. | |||
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"I think that it's time now to just ignore and forget about anyone that doesn't want to be vaccinated. Leave them be, no point in wasting energy trying to persuade anybody. Let's concentrate instead on getting vaccines into the overwhelming majority that want to be jabbed, so that we can all get our lives back on track. However any quack doctors that spread misinformation and deliberately try to derail the efforts to save lives and rebuild the economy should be cracked down on and censured. Any pedalling "cures" that are no such thing should be investigated for medical malpractice, if found to have profited from causing harm then should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. If someone just quietly wants to disbelieve in treatment that could save their life, well there is no point in trying to force anything upon them. As long as they live (or die) with the consequences of their decision, and are not actively harming others, just give their vaccine dose to someone that does want it. Although I fully agree with your intentions um afraid I can't fully agree. Their decision does affect others as the none vaccinated could be spreading the virus covertly. They are the problem and they should be held accountable. I totally agree about the danger of them contributing to the spread. However it does seem that the vax takeup is very considerable so hopefully we can achieve some measure of herd immunity regardless. I just feel that we're getting to a point where it is becoming counter-productive even having the discussion with the anti-vaxxers, to some extent it would be better to just deny the oxygen of publicity. Let anyone that clearly states they don't want to be vaccinated get on with their lives, but crack down hard on any that insist on spreading misinformation, and especially hard on any of the quack medical practices that actively hurt people." Well said and I will agree with this. It is clearly pointless in trying to negotiate or convert the unconvertable. They have their believes and opinions.....as wrong as they maybe. Lets just arm and take the dickheads out. Society doesn't need them. As we cant realistically do this lets just prevent them from operating in society as they clearly don't want to be part of a reasonable and sensible society that looks out for and cares for each other. | |||
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"I think that it's time now to just ignore and forget about anyone that doesn't want to be vaccinated. Leave them be, no point in wasting energy trying to persuade anybody. Let's concentrate instead on getting vaccines into the overwhelming majority that want to be jabbed, so that we can all get our lives back on track. However any quack doctors that spread misinformation and deliberately try to derail the efforts to save lives and rebuild the economy should be cracked down on and censured. Any pedalling "cures" that are no such thing should be investigated for medical malpractice, if found to have profited from causing harm then should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. If someone just quietly wants to disbelieve in treatment that could save their life, well there is no point in trying to force anything upon them. As long as they live (or die) with the consequences of their decision, and are not actively harming others, just give their vaccine dose to someone that does want it. Although I fully agree with your intentions um afraid I can't fully agree. Their decision does affect others as the none vaccinated could be spreading the virus covertly. They are the problem and they should be held accountable. I totally agree about the danger of them contributing to the spread. However it does seem that the vax takeup is very considerable so hopefully we can achieve some measure of herd immunity regardless. I just feel that we're getting to a point where it is becoming counter-productive even having the discussion with the anti-vaxxers, to some extent it would be better to just deny the oxygen of publicity. Let anyone that clearly states they don't want to be vaccinated get on with their lives, but crack down hard on any that insist on spreading misinformation, and especially hard on any of the quack medical practices that actively hurt people. Well said and I will agree with this. It is clearly pointless in trying to negotiate or convert the unconvertable. They have their believes and opinions.....as wrong as they maybe. Lets just arm and take the dickheads out. Society doesn't need them. As we cant realistically do this lets just prevent them from operating in society as they clearly don't want to be part of a reasonable and sensible society that looks out for and cares for each other." Covid in cause of deaths Currently ranking 24th Source: ONS and NHS Go figure | |||
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"I think that it's time now to just ignore and forget about anyone that doesn't want to be vaccinated. Leave them be, no point in wasting energy trying to persuade anybody. Let's concentrate instead on getting vaccines into the overwhelming majority that want to be jabbed, so that we can all get our lives back on track. However any quack doctors that spread misinformation and deliberately try to derail the efforts to save lives and rebuild the economy should be cracked down on and censured. Any pedalling "cures" that are no such thing should be investigated for medical malpractice, if found to have profited from causing harm then should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. If someone just quietly wants to disbelieve in treatment that could save their life, well there is no point in trying to force anything upon them. As long as they live (or die) with the consequences of their decision, and are not actively harming others, just give their vaccine dose to someone that does want it. Although I fully agree with your intentions um afraid I can't fully agree. Their decision does affect others as the none vaccinated could be spreading the virus covertly. They are the problem and they should be held accountable. I totally agree about the danger of them contributing to the spread. However it does seem that the vax takeup is very considerable so hopefully we can achieve some measure of herd immunity regardless. I just feel that we're getting to a point where it is becoming counter-productive even having the discussion with the anti-vaxxers, to some extent it would be better to just deny the oxygen of publicity. Let anyone that clearly states they don't want to be vaccinated get on with their lives, but crack down hard on any that insist on spreading misinformation, and especially hard on any of the quack medical practices that actively hurt people. Well said and I will agree with this. It is clearly pointless in trying to negotiate or convert the unconvertable. They have their believes and opinions.....as wrong as they maybe. Lets just arm and take the dickheads out. Society doesn't need them. As we cant realistically do this lets just prevent them from operating in society as they clearly don't want to be part of a reasonable and sensible society that looks out for and cares for each other. Covid in cause of deaths Currently ranking 24th Source: ONS and NHS Go figure "Again…. Misrepresenting what the point of the vaccine actually is…. So tell me…. What is the primary purpose of the vaccine… it’s a simple answer! | |||
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" It is clearly pointless in trying to negotiate or convert the unconvertable. They have their believes and opinions.....as wrong as they maybe. Lets just arm and take the dickheads out. Society doesn't need them. As we cant realistically do this lets just prevent them from operating in society as they clearly don't want to be part of a reasonable and sensible society that looks out for and cares for each other." You have done a good job encompassed everything that is not reasonable in a civilised and caring society. What do you suggest we do once we have marginalised a section of society? You don't want them near you do how do you indentfy them? How about making them sew some kind of symbol on their clothing so you can cross the road out of the way, maybe paint the same symbol on the businesses and house doors so you know to avoid. Or better still as they are so not welcome in your utopian society and maginalised how about we don't just go the whole hog and create a ghetto and make them all live together. | |||
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"I think that it's time now to just ignore and forget about anyone that doesn't want to be vaccinated. Leave them be, no point in wasting energy trying to persuade anybody. Let's concentrate instead on getting vaccines into the overwhelming majority that want to be jabbed, so that we can all get our lives back on track. However any quack doctors that spread misinformation and deliberately try to derail the efforts to save lives and rebuild the economy should be cracked down on and censured. Any pedalling "cures" that are no such thing should be investigated for medical malpractice, if found to have profited from causing harm then should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. If someone just quietly wants to disbelieve in treatment that could save their life, well there is no point in trying to force anything upon them. As long as they live (or die) with the consequences of their decision, and are not actively harming others, just give their vaccine dose to someone that does want it. Although I fully agree with your intentions um afraid I can't fully agree. Their decision does affect others as the none vaccinated could be spreading the virus covertly. They are the problem and they should be held accountable." Playing devil's advocate. Do we know they are the problem here? Or is it flying in 40000 people 6 % of whom test positive on arrival and whom then don't strictly isolate? Or is it not following guidelines or mass events... I suspect non vaccinated are a part of the problem and I suspect there are 10 other reasons. You see so far there is nobody coming out and stating any proven and validated reduction for those vaccinated. Yes there are a few unproven guesstimates that don't stand up when challenged. The answer is not to bully people into it. But to give them unbiased evidence and reasoning as to the benefits of having a vaccine... The evidence that the risks are lower in having it in terms of medical consequences when compared to the risks of not having it and then the fact thta certain opportunities will be afforded to those who have had it that will not be available if they have not and the reasons why... And then you can do no more. You can't reason with the unreasonable but you can at least present a decent argument and I'm not seeing anything approaching a decent argument. And yes we need to crack down hard on agitators and those who spread dangerous and harmful misinformation... Whatever their agenda might be. And that would include the inaccuracies from the pro vax side. | |||
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Your just fucking your immune systems up and a lot are gonna have big heart problems...fact - once a heart muscle dies you are FUCKED, no coming back from that and as for messing with your immune system, I promise that you have NO IMMUNITY for future variants which will leave you screwed for LIFE....fact.
Where as I am immune and will continue to build immunity to all future variants, unlike those sheep that blindly listened to governments,lol.
Please remember this post cos I WILL be coming back to say - 'I told you so'
I have done the research and studying and mark my words those the had the gene therapy jabs won't be so critical of those of us that knew better than to just follow the heard - you'll see | |||
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"This is gonna be a SHOCK within 20 years for those that decided to take a non existent vaccine that is for a variant of the virus that is now EXTINCT anyway
Your just fucking your immune systems up and a lot are gonna have big heart problems...fact - once a heart muscle dies you are FUCKED, no coming back from that and as for messing with your immune system, I promise that you have NO IMMUNITY for future variants which will leave you screwed for LIFE....fact.
Where as I am immune and will continue to build immunity to all future variants, unlike those sheep that blindly listened to governments,lol.
Please remember this post cos I WILL be coming back to say - 'I told you so'
I have done the research and studying and mark my words those the had the gene therapy jabs won't be so critical of those of us that knew better than to just follow the heard - you'll see "us none vaccinated will thrive cos we avnt been scare mongered into have the jab. The government used people's fear of dying to manipulate them into having something done and its just a big farce. You have all followed each other like lambs to the slaughter. New world order you should of looked at the bigger picture | |||
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"This is gonna be a SHOCK within 20 years for those that decided to take a non existent vaccine that is for a variant of the virus that is now EXTINCT anyway
Your just fucking your immune systems up and a lot are gonna have big heart problems...fact - once a heart muscle dies you are FUCKED, no coming back from that and as for messing with your immune system, I promise that you have NO IMMUNITY for future variants which will leave you screwed for LIFE....fact.
Where as I am immune and will continue to build immunity to all future variants, unlike those sheep that blindly listened to governments,lol.
Please remember this post cos I WILL be coming back to say - 'I told you so'
I have done the research and studying and mark my words those the had the gene therapy jabs won't be so critical of those of us that knew better than to just follow the heard - you'll see "More comedy gold on the virus forum. Keep it coming. | |||
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"Do you campaign on the risks, complications and deaths of all vaccines to be publicised? (As they all have them) Did you do that before Covid? I know the answer. You didn’t. Hopefully because you knew they are infinitesimally small and so insignificant that putting oxygen on them would actually cost many many more lives by putting people off getting life saving shot. Oh I don't know. I agree that covid vaccines have a huge amount of scrutiny.. I mean when people have their jabs for holidays I can't imagine anyone checking the box and date, or they take their paracetamol or nurofen after the 2 bottles of wine the night before... (how many people die of alcohol poisoning?)... But... I think if this leads to people taking more interest in the consequences of what they put in their body and questioning big pharma more for clarity... I think it's a good thing... And if we did it with oh.... Let's say... Some of the car manufacturers too... Or beauty products and vitamins and supplements or gm and bleached meats..... " Or bleached anuses (or is it ani? Lol) for that matter | |||
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"Should any death with 28 days of having the vaccine should count as a vaccine death? Seems to work the other way when recording deaths. Discuss.. (nicely if possible) " This is a mute point as the way we are reporting covid either has changed, or is going to change very shortly. I'll try and find the article. But the jist is in hospital because of covid related problems and died due to covid related issues within the last 28 days. | |||
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"This is gonna be a SHOCK within 20 years for those that decided to take a non existent vaccine that is for a variant of the virus that is now EXTINCT anyway
Your just fucking your immune systems up and a lot are gonna have big heart problems...fact - once a heart muscle dies you are FUCKED, no coming back from that and as for messing with your immune system, I promise that you have NO IMMUNITY for future variants which will leave you screwed for LIFE....fact.
Where as I am immune and will continue to build immunity to all future variants, unlike those sheep that blindly listened to governments,lol.
Please remember this post cos I WILL be coming back to say - 'I told you so'
I have done the research and studying and mark my words those the had the gene therapy jabs won't be so critical of those of us that knew better than to just follow the heard - you'll see "What day within the next 20 years do I need to bookmark, just so I can be prepared so to speak for the impending whatever? | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"This is gonna be a SHOCK within 20 years for those that decided to take a non existent vaccine that is for a variant of the virus that is now EXTINCT anyway
Your just fucking your immune systems up and a lot are gonna have big heart problems...fact - once a heart muscle dies you are FUCKED, no coming back from that and as for messing with your immune system, I promise that you have NO IMMUNITY for future variants which will leave you screwed for LIFE....fact.
Where as I am immune and will continue to build immunity to all future variants, unlike those sheep that blindly listened to governments,lol.
Please remember this post cos I WILL be coming back to say - 'I told you so'
I have done the research and studying and mark my words those the had the gene therapy jabs won't be so critical of those of us that knew better than to just follow the heard - you'll see "I'm sorry, but your statement just demonstrates that you don't understand how vaccines or the immune system works. At the most simplistic level, a vaccine just shows "Your Immune System" what the virus looks like. YOUR body then makes antibodies that can be used the next time the immune system sees the same virus. The actual immunity is created by "Your Body", and not the vaccine, and it is exactly the same as the immunity you would create if infected by the actual virus. Having a second dose of the vaccine, forces your immune system to generate more antibodies & increase it's production of the protection (T-Cells) that create the antibodies. This is the same as would happen if you had become infected twice, although a second infection is more difficult through natural processes. If a variant should come along that your immune system doesn't recognise, then it will respond in exactly the same way that it does to ANY unknown bug, this is completely unaffected by any other immunities that you may have. In exactly the same way that having a vaccine against Measles doesn't stop you from having an immunity against German Measles (Rubella). The original strain of the virus is also far from extinct, but that really isn't relevant, as all of the variants so far have been similar enough that the vaccines recognise them as the same thing. Cal | |||
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |||
"This is gonna be a SHOCK within 20 years for those that decided to take a non existent vaccine that is for a variant of the virus that is now EXTINCT anyway
Your just fucking your immune systems up and a lot are gonna have big heart problems...fact - once a heart muscle dies you are FUCKED, no coming back from that and as for messing with your immune system, I promise that you have NO IMMUNITY for future variants which will leave you screwed for LIFE....fact.
Where as I am immune and will continue to build immunity to all future variants, unlike those sheep that blindly listened to governments,lol.
Please remember this post cos I WILL be coming back to say - 'I told you so'
I have done the research and studying and mark my words those the had the gene therapy jabs won't be so critical of those of us that knew better than to just follow the heard - you'll see "do you so stand up shows ... just when I think I've read all the bollocks I can possibly read on here.. someone has to put something even more outlandish. What's worse is your actually crowing... seeing as over 80% of the UK's population has now had the vaccine that has been trialled and tested and is actually working against all variants... I'm not worried | |||
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"I think that it's time now to just ignore and forget about anyone that doesn't want to be vaccinated. Leave them be, no point in wasting energy trying to persuade anybody. Let's concentrate instead on getting vaccines into the overwhelming majority that want to be jabbed, so that we can all get our lives back on track. However any quack doctors that spread misinformation and deliberately try to derail the efforts to save lives and rebuild the economy should be cracked down on and censured. Any pedalling "cures" that are no such thing should be investigated for medical malpractice, if found to have profited from causing harm then should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. If someone just quietly wants to disbelieve in treatment that could save their life, well there is no point in trying to force anything upon them. As long as they live (or die) with the consequences of their decision, and are not actively harming others, just give their vaccine dose to someone that does want it. Although I fully agree with your intentions um afraid I can't fully agree. Their decision does affect others as the none vaccinated could be spreading the virus covertly. They are the problem and they should be held accountable. I totally agree about the danger of them contributing to the spread. However it does seem that the vax takeup is very considerable so hopefully we can achieve some measure of herd immunity regardless. I just feel that we're getting to a point where it is becoming counter-productive even having the discussion with the anti-vaxxers, to some extent it would be better to just deny the oxygen of publicity. Let anyone that clearly states they don't want to be vaccinated get on with their lives, but crack down hard on any that insist on spreading misinformation, and especially hard on any of the quack medical practices that actively hurt people." I think anti vaxers should be given a plant to carry around with them. E | |||
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