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At what point....
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"Will people be given the opportunity to exercise their own discretion regarding Covid? Or can we expect government to continue to decide for us?"
Its all about control ,give your hard fought freedoms away and it’s not so easy to get it back
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Once we have all had the opportunity to have the jabs surely it is then down to individual choice? That said it doesn't give immunity so do we have to wait for mass immunisation? People already ignoring masks and social distancing etc so is it time for govt to say get on with it and make your own risk assessment? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The original emergency powers were for maximum 2 years I believe.
There will probably still be restrictions in some form until Spring 22.
There are still people at risk, who have not yet been able to receive both doses of vaccine. |
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"The original emergency powers were for maximum 2 years I believe.
There will probably still be restrictions in some form until Spring 22.
There are still people at risk, who have not yet been able to receive both doses of vaccine."
If people choose not to take the vaccine that surely is their choice, as are the consequences if they suffer illness as a result. Not a reason to keep the country in a state of permanent restrictions. |
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"We should be already, it's criminal to destroy so many lives so needlessly.  Working on outdated figures to justify not giving us our freedoms back "
Yes I don't know how they repeatedly get away with that.  |
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I think it made good sense with the rising numbers to delay the last bit for a few weeks.. as with the over 18s being able to get their first vaccine from next week, by the new date most should have at least had their first vaccine... and we will be a lot further into people being fully vaccinated.
To be honest we did well to get to this stage of things being lifted without delay. X |
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"We should be already, it's criminal to destroy so many lives so needlessly. Working on outdated figures to justify not giving us our freedoms back
Yes I don't know how they repeatedly get away with that. "
Have you ever seen the film 1984 ? Suggest anyone who hasn’t try to view it , it’s a glimpse into how your life can be totally controlled |
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Ask the 125,000 who died whether people should be able to use their own discretion. Oh no, you can’t they died.
By all means make your own choices, but don’t go out and infect others with the potential to kill them.
“Personal freedom” does not give you the right to endanger others - they have freedoms as well as you & their freedoms are as valuable as yours… |
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"We should be already, it's criminal to destroy so many lives so needlessly. Working on outdated figures to justify not giving us our freedoms back
Yes I don't know how they repeatedly get away with that. Have you ever seen the film 1984 ? Suggest anyone who hasn’t try to view it , it’s a glimpse into how your life can be totally controlled "
Yes, I find myself quoting Orwell all the time lately.....  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ask the 125,000 who died whether people should be able to use their own discretion. Oh no, you can’t they died.
By all means make your own choices, but don’t go out and infect others with the potential to kill them.
“Personal freedom” does not give you the right to endanger others - they have freedoms as well as you & their freedoms are as valuable as yours…"
My double vaxxed workmate has been bed ridden for three weeks with the virus.
That he caught from his double vaxxed mother who is hanging onto dear life in hospital.His last words to me last week were.."I can't believe this has happened to me". |
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"Ask the 125,000 who died whether people should be able to use their own discretion. Oh no, you can’t they died.
By all means make your own choices, but don’t go out and infect others with the potential to kill them.
“Personal freedom” does not give you the right to endanger others - they have freedoms as well as you & their freedoms are as valuable as yours…
My double vaxxed workmate has been bed ridden for three weeks with the virus.
That he caught from his double vaxxed mother who is hanging onto dear life in hospital.His last words to me last week were.."I can't believe this has happened to me"."
So are you saying the vaccine does not work ? |
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"Ask the 125,000 who died whether people should be able to use their own discretion. Oh no, you can’t they died.
By all means make your own choices, but don’t go out and infect others with the potential to kill them.
“Personal freedom” does not give you the right to endanger others - they have freedoms as well as you & their freedoms are as valuable as yours…
My double vaxxed workmate has been bed ridden for three weeks with the virus.
That he caught from his double vaxxed mother who is hanging onto dear life in hospital.His last words to me last week were.."I can't believe this has happened to me"."
Ouch. |
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Over the past year, the mortality rate in the UK has been 20% higher than normal. It is coming down, but it won’t stop just because people have been vaccinated.
It will reduce the number of deaths, reduce the severity of catching Covid and make it easier to recover. The more people who have the vaccine the less chance for the Virus to spread, it will reduce the R rate and people will then be less likely to be ill.
Avoiding the vaccine does the opposite.
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"Over the past year, the mortality rate in the UK has been 20% higher than normal. It is coming down, but it won’t stop just because people have been vaccinated.
***"
why do people keep asking this all the time ?is it like a game to try and trigger some big reveal and prove AVs were right all along?
course the vaccine works !but probably not in the way anti vaxxers think it does..if they actually did some research a bit they might stop asking the same question over and over..
getting a bit tiresome seeing it all the time frankly..
It will reduce the number of deaths, reduce the severity of catching Covid and make it easier to recover. The more people who have the vaccine the less chance for the Virus to spread, it will reduce the R rate and people will then be less likely to be ill.
Avoiding the vaccine does the opposite.
"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Over the past year, the mortality rate in the UK has been 20% higher than normal. It is coming down, but it won’t stop just because people have been vaccinated.
It will reduce the number of deaths, reduce the severity of catching Covid and make it easier to recover. The more people who have the vaccine the less chance for the Virus to spread, it will reduce the R rate and people will then be less likely to be ill.
Avoiding the vaccine does the opposite.
"
Not for him and his mother.
Time will tell in the long term. |
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"Over the past year, the mortality rate in the UK has been 20% higher than normal. It is coming down, but it won’t stop just because people have been vaccinated.
It will reduce the number of deaths, reduce the severity of catching Covid and make it easier to recover. The more people who have the vaccine the less chance for the Virus to spread, it will reduce the R rate and people will then be less likely to be ill.
Avoiding the vaccine does the opposite.
Not for him and his mother.
Time will tell in the long term."
So many anomolies. |
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"Over the past year, the mortality rate in the UK has been 20% higher than normal. It is coming down, but it won’t stop just because people have been vaccinated.
It will reduce the number of deaths, reduce the severity of catching Covid and make it easier to recover. The more people who have the vaccine the less chance for the Virus to spread, it will reduce the R rate and people will then be less likely to be ill.
Avoiding the vaccine does the opposite.
Not for him and his mother.
Time will tell in the long term."
unfortunately we wont know how ill they would have been without the vaccine. Thankfully as more and more people are vaccinated... it will become harder to catch and transmit the virus.
It is unfortunate that some have still caught the virus... which is why when people are being vaccinated they are being reminded to still stick to the restrictions. I've been surprised how many seemed to think that once they had the vaccine they could do as they liked x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ask the 125,000 who died whether people should be able to use their own discretion. Oh no, you can’t they died.
By all means make your own choices, but don’t go out and infect others with the potential to kill them.
“Personal freedom” does not give you the right to endanger others - they have freedoms as well as you & their freedoms are as valuable as yours…"
 |
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"The original emergency powers were for maximum 2 years I believe.
There will probably still be restrictions in some form until Spring 22.
There are still people at risk, who have not yet been able to receive both doses of vaccine."
They'll probably extend because everyone will need boosters etc and new variants. |
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"Ask the 125,000 who died whether people should be able to use their own discretion. Oh no, you can’t they died.
By all means make your own choices, but don’t go out and infect others with the potential to kill them.
“Personal freedom” does not give you the right to endanger others - they have freedoms as well as you & their freedoms are as valuable as yours…"
I guess that's the moral dilemma. Do we need zero deaths to consider it safe to return to some sort of normality. Or do we accept the risk in the same way as flu which is also a virus that kills a lot of people every year. Where does the line get drawn? |
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"Ask the 125,000 who died whether people should be able to use their own discretion. Oh no, you can’t they died.
By all means make your own choices, but don’t go out and infect others with the potential to kill them.
“Personal freedom” does not give you the right to endanger others - they have freedoms as well as you & their freedoms are as valuable as yours…
My double vaxxed workmate has been bed ridden for three weeks with the virus.
That he caught from his double vaxxed mother who is hanging onto dear life in hospital.His last words to me last week were.."I can't believe this has happened to me". So are you saying the vaccine does not work ? "
Or the vaccines did work and she isn’t 6 feet under and he isn’t on a ventilator with his lungs filling with fluid |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ask the 125,000 who died whether people should be able to use their own discretion. Oh no, you can’t they died.
By all means make your own choices, but don’t go out and infect others with the potential to kill them.
“Personal freedom” does not give you the right to endanger others - they have freedoms as well as you & their freedoms are as valuable as yours…
My double vaxxed workmate has been bed ridden for three weeks with the virus.
That he caught from his double vaxxed mother who is hanging onto dear life in hospital.His last words to me last week were.."I can't believe this has happened to me". So are you saying the vaccine does not work ?
Or the vaccines did work and she isn’t 6 feet under and he isn’t on a ventilator with his lungs filling with fluid"
He's one of ten brickies that i employ.
One of them had covid back in Feb and was off work for two weeks without the vax.
This one has been off work three weeks and still feels very ill. |
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"Ask the 125,000 who died whether people should be able to use their own discretion. Oh no, you can’t they died.
By all means make your own choices, but don’t go out and infect others with the potential to kill them.
“Personal freedom” does not give you the right to endanger others - they have freedoms as well as you & their freedoms are as valuable as yours…
My double vaxxed workmate has been bed ridden for three weeks with the virus.
That he caught from his double vaxxed mother who is hanging onto dear life in hospital.His last words to me last week were.."I can't believe this has happened to me". So are you saying the vaccine does not work ?
Or the vaccines did work and she isn’t 6 feet under and he isn’t on a ventilator with his lungs filling with fluid
He's one of ten brickies that i employ.
One of them had covid back in Feb and was off work for two weeks without the vax.
This one has been off work three weeks and still feels very ill."
Not everyone is the same. Some die, some have long covid, some recover quickly and some are asymptomatic. |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"Will people be given the opportunity to exercise their own discretion regarding Covid? Or can we expect government to continue to decide for us?"
Public opinion seems to of shifted towards people wanting the State to look after them and micromanage their lives instead of days gone by where the concept of personal responsibility seemed more popular. |
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"Will people be given the opportunity to exercise their own discretion regarding Covid? Or can we expect government to continue to decide for us?"
I'd argue it's not your decision to make?
Its not about individuals now it's about others..lots of stuff like duty of care /safeguarding/assault through infection all comes into it now..the sensible thing to do is wait until people have been vaccinated then allow people to decide things for themselves.Which is what I favour..regardless releasing everyone before vaccinations have been completed is very foolish..doing it before everything opens up apart from being inpatient and not letting this run it's course also opens up a huge legal can of worms that would start a ridiculous number of legal actions countrywide..
and no one is going to let that happen before they are absolutely sure nothing will come back in them or they at least stand the best chance if it not happening are they? |
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As we've heard, the vaccine is no guarantee of stopping catching it or becoming unwell. So even with 100% vaccinations which we won't get as many folks won't take it, it does beg the question when does the state decide that people have to make their own assessment. I accept its not easy. The state cannot guarantee eternal life so at some point we have to accept we make our own decisions. |
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By *pellboundCouple
over a year ago
Derby and North Wales |
I have a friend who’s father sadly died of a heart attack last year, his death certificate stated that he died of COVID, when this was questioned the response was that it avoided the need of a coroners report, she contested this and the death certificate was corrected.
We shouldn’t believe the death rate figures as they are distorted, why I am not sure?
I understand that the government has a duty to protect the NHS |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The uk governmen is a plc... Check it out on companies house.
And as of last year... They dissolved.
So... There is no government.... Can someone with more knowledge shed any light? |
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"The uk governmen is a plc... Check it out on companies house.
And as of last year... They dissolved.
So... There is no government.... Can someone with more knowledge shed any light?"
judging by some of your previous posts?
I would suggest you take a bit more water with it from now on ! |
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"Will people be given the opportunity to exercise their own discretion regarding Covid? Or can we expect government to continue to decide for us?"
Keep expecting and just get on with it. No point whining  |
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Yep OP but you need to be careful that you are not slipping from your rights to removing the rights of other vulnerable people. Its easy to say I've had my jabs etc so I will take the risk but it isn't your risk - it is some other poor sods risk. |
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"Yep OP but you need to be careful that you are not slipping from your rights to removing the rights of other vulnerable people. Its easy to say I've had my jabs etc so I will take the risk but it isn't your risk - it is some other poor sods risk."
It's a great point, once everyone has been offered the vaccine, whether they have chosen to take it or not, is that the time to make citizens responsible for managing their own risk? If not, when do we stop relying on the state to make decisions for us? It's a fine balance. I think we must be close to the point where govt has done their bit. |
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"Yep OP but you need to be careful that you are not slipping from your rights to removing the rights of other vulnerable people. Its easy to say I've had my jabs etc so I will take the risk but it isn't your risk - it is some other poor sods risk.
It's a great point, once everyone has been offered the vaccine, whether they have chosen to take it or not, is that the time to make citizens responsible for managing their own risk? If not, when do we stop relying on the state to make decisions for us? It's a fine balance. I think we must be close to the point where govt has done their bit."
When everyone who can be vaccinated, and wants to be vaccinated, has been vaccinated. And suitable measures are in place to provide protection for those who would like to be vaccinated but cannot be. And some halfway sensible border control measures are implemented to avoid continually importing new versions of the virus. And new cases, hospitalisations and deaths are low, AND STILL GOING DOWN.
That is the time to reduce restrictions and try to get everything back to normal.
But at any time when CASES ARE GOING UP as they are at the moment, it is criminally negligent to relax any restrictions.
When you've got a runaway vehicle, and you've been braking hard to stop it, you don't take your foot off while you're still on a downhill slope. This does not take rocket science to understand. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Some good points. And highlights the problem, each time we see a small upward spike in cases can we expect further lockdowns. When does the action outweigh the risk?"
I would say around about march last year |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Had first jab early march... Daughter (primary school teacher lives with me) contracted covid from infected child... Two days later i get it.. We are both well as is her mother and sister... I am now fully jabbed... But owing to gov shite daughter just had first jab ( she is 25) |
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As someone suggested earlier we will get back to normal when we can treat covid like flu. Ie around 5000 deaths a year. We are miles away from that at the moment. The only game in town is vaccines. Younger people who have a pretty low risk of being badly affected need to get the vaccine either to protect vulnerable people or for more selfish reasons to get life back to normal sooner. The alternative is restrictions and more lockdowns. |
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"Had first jab early march... Daughter (primary school teacher lives with me) contracted covid from infected child... Two days later i get it.. We are both well as is her mother and sister... I am now fully jabbed... But owing to gov shite daughter just had first jab ( she is 25) "
why is your daughter getting vaccinated at 25 ' government shite'?
There doesn't seem to be any reason to complain ?especially when some countries are still struggling to get their older generation vaccinated let alone young ones |
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"Had first jab early march... Daughter (primary school teacher lives with me) contracted covid from infected child... Two days later i get it.. We are both well as is her mother and sister... I am now fully jabbed... But owing to gov shite daughter just had first jab ( she is 25) "
There are many who think that school staff should have been vaccinated as a priority group, it would certainly have facilitated keeping schools open. It seems however that the government's modelling suggesting that vaccinating the most vulnerable was the biggest priority.
Cal |
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"Will people be given the opportunity to exercise their own discretion regarding Covid? Or can we expect government to continue to decide for us?"
Christ I hope not, because humans are fundamentally flawed as a species and act in their own best interests and not the interests of others. We are hard-coded to do so.
Granted some are able to reprogram themselves to be empathic and value the needs of others too, and give them a fair weighting, but that is by no means a given.
Like William Golding's Lord Of the Flies, the extremes are comprised of 2 groups (with a neutral third group if you count the littleuns) :
Ralph's Group seek order and control. They want to seek fire/shelter and put in to place plans that will rescue all the boys.
Jack's Group seek immediate gratification. They want to hunt meat.
Ralph was about democracy and taking responsibility. Jack was about chaos and ruling by force.
The neutral boys, the 3rd party, just wanted to be told what to do.
Covid is in many ways like Lord of The Flies.
There are many Ralphs (Eg, the Government and other elected bodies), trying to manage the whole shit show.
There are many Jacks, who are vehemently against the whole shit show, and feel their sole needs and wants are their prime directive.
And there are a great many of the "Littleuns", who just want to be told what to do.
It's telling that at the end of the book, Jack's group is by far the largest.
Ralph ruled by reason and thought, and wanted people to take responsibility.
Jack ruled by fear and force. There was no responsibility.
The latter group saw the most followers.
I think the book summed up human nature depressingly well.
So by giving people the opportunity to exercise their own responsibility, will ultimately see the majority abdicate said responsibility to others, in order for them to live in chaos, under an illusion of safety, doing what they will. This is not a group that will progressively defeat the pandemic, because their goals are not aligned outside their own immediate needs. Can you rationalise with an irrational group ? Unlikely.
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"The uk governmen is a plc... Check it out on companies house.
And as of last year... They dissolved.
So... There is no government.... Can someone with more knowledge shed any light?"
You're right, they are a coperation, everything is registered as a coperation, the council who ask you for for council tax, even police stations are registered businesses ! |
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We ha3had considerable discretion throughout this pandemic, including whether you would follow simple, common sense tactics to help to protest the health and lives of yourself and others, everything from washing hands and how you lived at home. Even whether you took medical treatment if sick.
The continuous bleating about finding simple things a gigantic problem, when we are almost devoid of restrictions, does nobody any good whatsoever. The rabid mobs chasing reporters etc, show the levels of dangerous irresponsibility that too many have allowed themselves to fester with. They need to give themselves a good shake and to wake up |
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"The uk governmen is a plc... Check it out on companies house.
And as of last year... They dissolved.
So... There is no government.... Can someone with more knowledge shed any light?"
I don't think your points are really adding much, apart from borderline conspiracy territory alerts. You could look up and learn more about the processes and structure of the UK government, as it would probably be helpful to start from scratch. These things predate PLCs etc. You could perhaps take a walk on the wild side, within the Politics forum area too. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We ha3had considerable discretion throughout this pandemic, including whether you would follow simple, common sense tactics to help to protest the health and lives of yourself and others, everything from washing hands and how you lived at home. Even whether you took medical treatment if sick.
The continuous bleating about finding simple things a gigantic problem, when we are almost devoid of restrictions, does nobody any good whatsoever. The rabid mobs chasing reporters etc, show the levels of dangerous irresponsibility that too many have allowed themselves to fester with. They need to give themselves a good shake and to wake up"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ask the 125,000 who died whether people should be able to use their own discretion. Oh no, you can’t they died.
By all means make your own choices, but don’t go out and infect others with the potential to kill them.
“Personal freedom” does not give you the right to endanger others - they have freedoms as well as you & their freedoms are as valuable as yours…
My double vaxxed workmate has been bed ridden for three weeks with the virus.
That he caught from his double vaxxed mother who is hanging onto dear life in hospital.His last words to me last week were.."I can't believe this has happened to me". So are you saying the vaccine does not work ? "
Scary this isn't being reported in the media |
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"Ask the 125,000 who died whether people should be able to use their own discretion. Oh no, you can’t they died.
By all means make your own choices, but don’t go out and infect others with the potential to kill them.
“Personal freedom” does not give you the right to endanger others - they have freedoms as well as you & their freedoms are as valuable as yours…
My double vaxxed workmate has been bed ridden for three weeks with the virus.
That he caught from his double vaxxed mother who is hanging onto dear life in hospital.His last words to me last week were.."I can't believe this has happened to me". So are you saying the vaccine does not work ?
Scary this isn't being reported in the media "
What has been confirmed by the scientific community & reported in the media is "95% of all current covid deaths are people who have not had both jabs".
CAl |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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So a lot of times during this pandemic, I have said there will come a time we need to have a conversation. That time is obviously now. The way I see it we have a few options.
1. Play hokey y lockdown for the foreseeable future (5+ years)
This is my least favourite option as it will mean life as we knew it is forever sacrificed to save a (relative) small amount of lives. Also people are brushing over the human rights violations of countries currently employing this.
2. Accept that like any other fatal disease we are going to loose lives, and attempt to live alongside covid
I am fine with this, but worry if the NHS can cope during winter. Would we decide to introduce another tax or maybe increase NI contributions so we can pay staff more and ultimately hire more staff.
3. Have annual restrictions and only open up fully for 5 months a year.
I don't like this option as it doesn't do any favours for global economy. It also may push us into a dsytopian way of living. A disaster for mental health
4. Open up fully, but make international travel implausible for most.
This option makes the most sense not only for covid but for the planet. Do I like it, not one bit. Do I accept it may be for best maybe. I'll be watching the data of here closely but when we open up aviation it makes sense that new variants will rear there heads. It could take a generation to give the globe some kind of protection. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ask the 125,000 who died whether people should be able to use their own discretion. Oh no, you can’t they died.
By all means make your own choices, but don’t go out and infect others with the potential to kill them.
“Personal freedom” does not give you the right to endanger others - they have freedoms as well as you & their freedoms are as valuable as yours…
My double vaxxed workmate has been bed ridden for three weeks with the virus.
That he caught from his double vaxxed mother who is hanging onto dear life in hospital.His last words to me last week were.."I can't believe this has happened to me". So are you saying the vaccine does not work ?
Scary this isn't being reported in the media
What has been confirmed by the scientific community & reported in the media is "95% of all current covid deaths are people who have not had both jabs".
CAl"
That's a good statistic and I'm glad that is being talked about. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"So a lot of times during this pandemic, I have said there will come a time we need to have a conversation. That time is obviously now. The way I see it we have a few options.
1. Play hokey y lockdown for the foreseeable future (5+ years)
This is my least favourite option as it will mean life as we knew it is forever sacrificed to save a (relative) small amount of lives. Also people are brushing over the human rights violations of countries currently employing this.
2. Accept that like any other fatal disease we are going to loose lives, and attempt to live alongside covid
I am fine with this, but worry if the NHS can cope during winter. Would we decide to introduce another tax or maybe increase NI contributions so we can pay staff more and ultimately hire more staff.
3. Have annual restrictions and only open up fully for 5 months a year.
I don't like this option as it doesn't do any favours for global economy. It also may push us into a dsytopian way of living. A disaster for mental health
4. Open up fully, but make international travel implausible for most.
This option makes the most sense not only for covid but for the planet. Do I like it, not one bit. Do I accept it may be for best maybe. I'll be watching the data of here closely but when we open up aviation it makes sense that new variants will rear there heads. It could take a generation to give the globe some kind of protection. "
Point 2 - you’re having a laugh? People in the UK want low taxes and accept underfunded public services (including moaning about public sector pay) but then complain when the service they get is sub standard! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We should be already, it's criminal to destroy so many lives so needlessly. Working on outdated figures to justify not giving us our freedoms back
Yes I don't know how they repeatedly get away with that. Have you ever seen the film 1984 ? Suggest anyone who hasn’t try to view it , it’s a glimpse into how your life can be totally controlled "
Nah I'm good thanks. We arent being controlled. We are being kept alive by a few restrictions. Dnt dramatise the situation |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We should be already, it's criminal to destroy so many lives so needlessly. Working on outdated figures to justify not giving us our freedoms back
Yes I don't know how they repeatedly get away with that. Have you ever seen the film 1984 ? Suggest anyone who hasn’t try to view it , it’s a glimpse into how your life can be totally controlled
Nah I'm good thanks. We arent being controlled. We are being kept alive by a few restrictions. Dnt dramatise the situation"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Will people be given the opportunity to exercise their own discretion regarding Covid? Or can we expect government to continue to decide for us?Its all about control ,give your hard fought freedoms away and it’s not so easy to get it back "
Please explain how your under control? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So a lot of times during this pandemic, I have said there will come a time we need to have a conversation. That time is obviously now. The way I see it we have a few options.
1. Play hokey y lockdown for the foreseeable future (5+ years)
This is my least favourite option as it will mean life as we knew it is forever sacrificed to save a (relative) small amount of lives. Also people are brushing over the human rights violations of countries currently employing this.
2. Accept that like any other fatal disease we are going to loose lives, and attempt to live alongside covid
I am fine with this, but worry if the NHS can cope during winter. Would we decide to introduce another tax or maybe increase NI contributions so we can pay staff more and ultimately hire more staff.
3. Have annual restrictions and only open up fully for 5 months a year.
I don't like this option as it doesn't do any favours for global economy. It also may push us into a dsytopian way of living. A disaster for mental health
4. Open up fully, but make international travel implausible for most.
This option makes the most sense not only for covid but for the planet. Do I like it, not one bit. Do I accept it may be for best maybe. I'll be watching the data of here closely but when we open up aviation it makes sense that new variants will rear there heads. It could take a generation to give the globe some kind of protection.
Point 2 - you’re having a laugh? People in the UK want low taxes and accept underfunded public services (including moaning about public sector pay) but then complain when the service they get is sub standard!"
I agree this will be the reaction, but I can see no other way of it working. The NHS came excruciatingly close to collapsing in on itself this winter and in my opinion if people want to have freedom that may have to come at a cost. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We should be already, it's criminal to destroy so many lives so needlessly. Working on outdated figures to justify not giving us our freedoms back
Yes I don't know how they repeatedly get away with that. Have you ever seen the film 1984 ? Suggest anyone who hasn’t try to view it , it’s a glimpse into how your life can be totally controlled
Nah I'm good thanks. We arent being controlled. We are being kept alive by a few restrictions. Dnt dramatise the situation"
So by its definition. Restrictions control behaviour. It's necessary to curb the flow of the virus, but it's still control.
Secondly. The restrictions are not necessarily keeping us alive. They are keeping our loved ones alive. Giving us the extra years that we're promised before the pandemic. If we are going to accuse people of dramatisation we have to be honest about why we have accepted restrictions to our life. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
If this Govt has its way, the NHS is finished.
Dido Harding has applied to be head of NHS. Strangely her husband is John Penrose MP who is a member of the 1828 group who called for NHS to be scrapped in favour of private medical insurance. Hmmmm! |
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"Ask the 125,000 who died whether people should be able to use their own discretion. Oh no, you can’t they died.
By all means make your own choices, but don’t go out and infect others with the potential to kill them.
“Personal freedom” does not give you the right to endanger others - they have freedoms as well as you & their freedoms are as valuable as yours…
My double vaxxed workmate has been bed ridden for three weeks with the virus.
That he caught from his double vaxxed mother who is hanging onto dear life in hospital.His last words to me last week were.."I can't believe this has happened to me". So are you saying the vaccine does not work ?
Scary this isn't being reported in the media
What has been confirmed by the scientific community & reported in the media is "95% of all current covid deaths are people who have not had both jabs".
CAl"
Some of these people aren't getting the chance to get their second jab because the first one is killing them off ! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If this Govt has its way, the NHS is finished.
Dido Harding has applied to be head of NHS. Strangely her husband is John Penrose MP who is a member of the 1828 group who called for NHS to be scrapped in favour of private medical insurance. Hmmmm!"
If this happens the NHS is gone. How can they let her fail on such a monumental scale (track and trace) then give her a bigger job. That would be a phenomenal scandal |
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The most over used word since this all began is "Freedom" and most of our so called "Freedoms" have already been eroded over the years and 99% haven't even noticed as it won't affect them ! and with the new crime bill one of our most basic of rights will soon be gone so...  |
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"Will people be given the opportunity to exercise their own discretion regarding Covid? Or can we expect government to continue to decide for us?Its all about control ,give your hard fought freedoms away and it’s not so easy to get it back
Please explain how your under control?"
LoL you don’t know |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"If this Govt has its way, the NHS is finished.
Dido Harding has applied to be head of NHS. Strangely her husband is John Penrose MP who is a member of the 1828 group who called for NHS to be scrapped in favour of private medical insurance. Hmmmm!
If this happens the NHS is gone. How can they let her fail on such a monumental scale (track and trace) then give her a bigger job. That would be a phenomenal scandal"
The very same John Penrose MP is the Prime Minister's Anti-Corruption Champion!
I kid you not! Couldn’t make this up! |
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"Ask the 125,000 who died whether people should be able to use their own discretion. Oh no, you can’t they died.
By all means make your own choices, but don’t go out and infect others with the potential to kill them.
“Personal freedom” does not give you the right to endanger others - they have freedoms as well as you & their freedoms are as valuable as yours…
My double vaxxed workmate has been bed ridden for three weeks with the virus.
That he caught from his double vaxxed mother who is hanging onto dear life in hospital.His last words to me last week were.."I can't believe this has happened to me". So are you saying the vaccine does not work ?
Scary this isn't being reported in the media
What has been confirmed by the scientific community & reported in the media is "95% of all current covid deaths are people who have not had both jabs".
CAl
Some of these people aren't getting the chance to get their second jab because the first one is killing them off ! "
this is not true. A quick look at how many 2nd doses have been given show this.
There is a very small risk with the vaccine and it's doing a good job to be fair. I respect anyones right not to have the vaccine but how would you feel If someone listened to the anti vax.. didnt take their vaccine when offered then died or got long covid..??? Mostly this is now affecting the younger generation and seems that they are much more susceptible to long covid. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Will people be given the opportunity to exercise their own discretion regarding Covid? Or can we expect government to continue to decide for us?
Public opinion seems to of shifted towards people wanting the State to look after them and micromanage their lives instead of days gone by where the concept of personal responsibility seemed more popular."
Agree totally, some people have enjoyed this "life holiday" and will be anxious about returning to previous normalities. No shame in that, but i think the issue we will have is the knock on affect it will have on public services etc due to the mental health impact on these people. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We should be already, it's criminal to destroy so many lives so needlessly. Working on outdated figures to justify not giving us our freedoms back
Yes I don't know how they repeatedly get away with that. Have you ever seen the film 1984 ? Suggest anyone who hasn’t try to view it , it’s a glimpse into how your life can be totally controlled
Nah I'm good thanks. We arent being controlled. We are being kept alive by a few restrictions. Dnt dramatise the situation
So by its definition. Restrictions control behaviour. It's necessary to curb the flow of the virus, but it's still control.
Secondly. The restrictions are not necessarily keeping us alive. They are keeping our loved ones alive. Giving us the extra years that we're promised before the pandemic. If we are going to accuse people of dramatisation we have to be honest about why we have accepted restrictions to our life. "
I stick by what I said. The restrictions have helped save lives. Would you rather everyone run amock with travelling in and out of the country. Everything open. It would have been catastrophic in huge proportions. So yes I say again over dramatising being controlled. |
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I'm sure restrictions have helped. Arguably with tighter border controls and Stronger and earlier lock down they would have been more effective. But the question is where do we go from here. What is the metric we should use to say the risk is now a manageable and personal one. |
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"I'm sure restrictions have helped. Arguably with tighter border controls and Stronger and earlier lock down they would have been more effective. But the question is where do we go from here. What is the metric we should use to say the risk is now a manageable and personal one."
Death rate and serious illness rate from covid consistently down at levels equal or lower than other common causes of death, PLUS the R number for covid consistently below 1 so that outbreaks are self damping and not possible for cases to rise exponentially again. Covid is then a background illness same as many others, not an epidemic. |
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"I'm sure restrictions have helped. Arguably with tighter border controls and Stronger and earlier lock down they would have been more effective. But the question is where do we go from here. What is the metric we should use to say the risk is now a manageable and personal one.
Death rate and serious illness rate from covid consistently down at levels equal or lower than other common causes of death, PLUS the R number for covid consistently below 1 so that outbreaks are self damping and not possible for cases to rise exponentially again. Covid is then a background illness same as many others, not an epidemic."
Looking at the ONS data, I think we are already at this point.
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"I'm sure restrictions have helped. Arguably with tighter border controls and Stronger and earlier lock down they would have been more effective. But the question is where do we go from here. What is the metric we should use to say the risk is now a manageable and personal one."
Covid claimed 355 lives in May and is 24th leading case of death , there was 35401 deaths in England in May so 23 diseases conditions killed more ,or put another way Covid killed fewer than 1 per cent ,source ONS
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"I'm sure restrictions have helped. Arguably with tighter border controls and Stronger and earlier lock down they would have been more effective. But the question is where do we go from here. What is the metric we should use to say the risk is now a manageable and personal one. Covid claimed 355 lives in May and is 24th leading case of death , there was 35401 deaths in England in May so 23 diseases conditions killed more ,or put another way Covid killed fewer than 1 per cent ,source ONS "
Which is 'good news' in a perverse way given every number is a loss if lived ones etc but as a comparison it's flawed, I can't be asymptomatic and unknowingly take cancer, heart disease etc home to my family.. |
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"I'm sure restrictions have helped. Arguably with tighter border controls and Stronger and earlier lock down they would have been more effective. But the question is where do we go from here. What is the metric we should use to say the risk is now a manageable and personal one. Covid claimed 355 lives in May and is 24th leading case of death , there was 35401 deaths in England in May so 23 diseases conditions killed more ,or put another way Covid killed fewer than 1 per cent ,source ONS "
"Provisional data show a total of 35,401 deaths registered in England in May 2021. This was 14,021 fewer deaths than in May 2020 and 4,252 deaths fewer than the five-year average (2015 to 2019).
May 2021 was also the second month where deaths in England were below the five-year average (10.7% lower) since August 2020.
In Wales in May 2021, there were 2,416 deaths registered, 271 deaths (10.1%) fewer than the May average."
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"I'm sure restrictions have helped. Arguably with tighter border controls and Stronger and earlier lock down they would have been more effective. But the question is where do we go from here. What is the metric we should use to say the risk is now a manageable and personal one.
Death rate and serious illness rate from covid consistently down at levels equal or lower than other common causes of death, PLUS the R number for covid consistently below 1 so that outbreaks are self damping and not possible for cases to rise exponentially again. Covid is then a background illness same as many others, not an epidemic.
Looking at the ONS data, I think we are already at this point.
"
Death and illness rates are low, but R number is consistently above 1, case numbers are doubling every week or so, maybe faster. By definition, this means that delta variant has gone epidemic.
Preliminary data does seem to show that majority of cases are in no jab or one jab population, so it is hoped that continuation of vax programme will knock down the R number generally. But until this has been achieved, criteria for relaxing restrictions are certainly not met, and arguably current status would justify increasing restrictions. |
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"I'm sure restrictions have helped. Arguably with tighter border controls and Stronger and earlier lock down they would have been more effective. But the question is where do we go from here. What is the metric we should use to say the risk is now a manageable and personal one. Covid claimed 355 lives in May and is 24th leading case of death , there was 35401 deaths in England in May so 23 diseases conditions killed more ,or put another way Covid killed fewer than 1 per cent ,source ONS
Which is 'good news' in a perverse way given every number is a loss if lived ones etc but as a comparison it's flawed, I can't be asymptomatic and unknowingly take cancer, heart disease etc home to my family.."
It’s not a comparison it’s fact |
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"I'm sure restrictions have helped. Arguably with tighter border controls and Stronger and earlier lock down they would have been more effective. But the question is where do we go from here. What is the metric we should use to say the risk is now a manageable and personal one. Covid claimed 355 lives in May and is 24th leading case of death , there was 35401 deaths in England in May so 23 diseases conditions killed more ,or put another way Covid killed fewer than 1 per cent ,source ONS
Which is 'good news' in a perverse way given every number is a loss if lived ones etc but as a comparison it's flawed, I can't be asymptomatic and unknowingly take cancer, heart disease etc home to my family.. It’s not a comparison it’s fact"
I'm not saying the data is flawed, first sentence shows that.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Will people be given the opportunity to exercise their own discretion regarding Covid? Or can we expect government to continue to decide for us?"
Tyrannical governments never give up their power. It has to be taken back.
We take it back when people wake up to this scam. People are being led down the garden path by Doris and his lying narcissistic gang.
If they are too stupid to see this then they will suffer the consequences. |
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"Ask the 125,000 who died whether people should be able to use their own discretion. Oh no, you can’t they died.
By all means make your own choices, but don’t go out and infect others with the potential to kill them.
“Personal freedom” does not give you the right to endanger others - they have freedoms as well as you & their freedoms are as valuable as yours…
My double vaxxed workmate has been bed ridden for three weeks with the virus.
That he caught from his double vaxxed mother who is hanging onto dear life in hospital.His last words to me last week were.."I can't believe this has happened to me". So are you saying the vaccine does not work ?
Scary this isn't being reported in the media
What has been confirmed by the scientific community & reported in the media is "95% of all current covid deaths are people who have not had both jabs".
CAl
Some of these people aren't getting the chance to get their second jab because the first one is killing them off ! "
According to any data I can find, only two people in the uk are confirmed to have died because of one of the vaccines
Cal |
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"I'm sure restrictions have helped. Arguably with tighter border controls and Stronger and earlier lock down they would have been more effective. But the question is where do we go from here. What is the metric we should use to say the risk is now a manageable and personal one.
Death rate and serious illness rate from covid consistently down at levels equal or lower than other common causes of death, PLUS the R number for covid consistently below 1 so that outbreaks are self damping and not possible for cases to rise exponentially again. Covid is then a background illness same as many others, not an epidemic.
Looking at the ONS data, I think we are already at this point.
Death and illness rates are low, but R number is consistently above 1, case numbers are doubling every week or so, maybe faster. By definition, this means that delta variant has gone epidemic.
Preliminary data does seem to show that majority of cases are in no jab or one jab population, so it is hoped that continuation of vax programme will knock down the R number generally. But until this has been achieved, criteria for relaxing restrictions are certainly not met, and arguably current status would justify increasing restrictions."
Doubling infections but hospitalisations remaining very low.
A week on since I first mentioned an interesting comparison, the number of hospitals in the UK is still more than people with covid in hospital.
I think in percentage terms it is just under 1% of total NHS bed capacity.
The country needs to start receiving information and lessons on how to accept what the percentages and statistics actually mean. Everything in perspective.
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"I'm sure restrictions have helped. Arguably with tighter border controls and Stronger and earlier lock down they would have been more effective. But the question is where do we go from here. What is the metric we should use to say the risk is now a manageable and personal one.
Death rate and serious illness rate from covid consistently down at levels equal or lower than other common causes of death, PLUS the R number for covid consistently below 1 so that outbreaks are self damping and not possible for cases to rise exponentially again. Covid is then a background illness same as many others, not an epidemic.
Looking at the ONS data, I think we are already at this point.
Death and illness rates are low, but R number is consistently above 1, case numbers are doubling every week or so, maybe faster. By definition, this means that delta variant has gone epidemic.
Preliminary data does seem to show that majority of cases are in no jab or one jab population, so it is hoped that continuation of vax programme will knock down the R number generally. But until this has been achieved, criteria for relaxing restrictions are certainly not met, and arguably current status would justify increasing restrictions.
Doubling infections but hospitalisations remaining very low.
A week on since I first mentioned an interesting comparison, the number of hospitals in the UK is still more than people with covid in hospital.
I think in percentage terms it is just under 1% of total NHS bed capacity.
The country needs to start receiving information and lessons on how to accept what the percentages and statistics actually mean. Everything in perspective.
"
Yes, this shows that the vaccine roll-out is ACTUALLY doing what it should |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Will people be given the opportunity to exercise their own discretion regarding Covid? Or can we expect government to continue to decide for us?Its all about control ,give your hard fought freedoms away and it’s not so easy to get it back "
Why is it? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm sure restrictions have helped. Arguably with tighter border controls and Stronger and earlier lock down they would have been more effective. But the question is where do we go from here. What is the metric we should use to say the risk is now a manageable and personal one.
Death rate and serious illness rate from covid consistently down at levels equal or lower than other common causes of death, PLUS the R number for covid consistently below 1 so that outbreaks are self damping and not possible for cases to rise exponentially again. Covid is then a background illness same as many others, not an epidemic.
Looking at the ONS data, I think we are already at this point.
Death and illness rates are low, but R number is consistently above 1, case numbers are doubling every week or so, maybe faster. By definition, this means that delta variant has gone epidemic.
Preliminary data does seem to show that majority of cases are in no jab or one jab population, so it is hoped that continuation of vax programme will knock down the R number generally. But until this has been achieved, criteria for relaxing restrictions are certainly not met, and arguably current status would justify increasing restrictions.
Doubling infections but hospitalisations remaining very low.
A week on since I first mentioned an interesting comparison, the number of hospitals in the UK is still more than people with covid in hospital.
I think in percentage terms it is just under 1% of total NHS bed capacity.
The country needs to start receiving information and lessons on how to accept what the percentages and statistics actually mean. Everything in perspective.
"
Hospitalisations and people on ventilation are rising more rapidly than what I would like |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm sure restrictions have helped. Arguably with tighter border controls and Stronger and earlier lock down they would have been more effective. But the question is where do we go from here. What is the metric we should use to say the risk is now a manageable and personal one.
Death rate and serious illness rate from covid consistently down at levels equal or lower than other common causes of death, PLUS the R number for covid consistently below 1 so that outbreaks are self damping and not possible for cases to rise exponentially again. Covid is then a background illness same as many others, not an epidemic.
Looking at the ONS data, I think we are already at this point.
Death and illness rates are low, but R number is consistently above 1, case numbers are doubling every week or so, maybe faster. By definition, this means that delta variant has gone epidemic.
Preliminary data does seem to show that majority of cases are in no jab or one jab population, so it is hoped that continuation of vax programme will knock down the R number generally. But until this has been achieved, criteria for relaxing restrictions are certainly not met, and arguably current status would justify increasing restrictions.
Doubling infections but hospitalisations remaining very low.
A week on since I first mentioned an interesting comparison, the number of hospitals in the UK is still more than people with covid in hospital.
I think in percentage terms it is just under 1% of total NHS bed capacity.
The country needs to start receiving information and lessons on how to accept what the percentages and statistics actually mean. Everything in perspective.
Hospitalisations and people on ventilation are rising more rapidly than what I would like"
Not among the people who have had both vaccines more than 3 weeks before catching covid.
Only 86 people who fall into that category have been hospitalised, it was just on the news. |
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"Will people be given the opportunity to exercise their own discretion regarding Covid? Or can we expect government to continue to decide for us?Its all about control ,give your hard fought freedoms away and it’s not so easy to get it back "
nothing and nobody is ever free... I dont feel any less free than I did this time last year..
We are all answerable to someone |
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"Hundreds of thousands out for the football last night, people seem to be making their own decisions. Will be interesting to see if there is a spike. "
It will be interesting to see what happens with the whole test events situation as download was this weekend aswell, it could well be these types of events that have an influence on how and when we start to open things back up in the future |
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"Over the past year, the mortality rate in the UK has been 20% higher than normal. It is coming down, but it won’t stop just because people have been vaccinated.
It will reduce the number of deaths, reduce the severity of catching Covid and make it easier to recover. The more people who have the vaccine the less chance for the Virus to spread, it will reduce the R rate and people will then be less likely to be ill.
Avoiding the vaccine does the opposite.
Not for him and his mother.
Time will tell in the long term."
I wish them well
Viral load is a big factor. Send 10 police to detain someone (or 10 antibodies against a single virus particle) and they have a pretty easy task, send 10 police against a surge of 1000 rioters and the rioters can do a lot of damage, perhaps including damage to critical infrastructure before sufficient resources can be deployed to quell them. Exposed to a high enough dose of a pathogen and even the best primed immune system is going to struggle to get the upper hand on any infection.
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By *oonloverWoman
over a year ago
bognor regis |
"Over the past year, the mortality rate in the UK has been 20% higher than normal. It is coming down, but it won’t stop just because people have been vaccinated.
How any of those excess deaths are due to lack of treatment over the past 18 months? I know more people who have died from not getting treatments they needed than I know have tested positive for covid
It will reduce the number of deaths, reduce the severity of catching Covid and make it easier to recover. The more people who have the vaccine the less chance for the Virus to spread, it will reduce the R rate and people will then be less likely to be ill.
Avoiding the vaccine does the opposite.
"
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By *lex46TV/TS
over a year ago
Near Wells |
"Will people be given the opportunity to exercise their own discretion regarding Covid? Or can we expect government to continue to decide for us?"
I'm doing this and have been for a few weeks Double jabbed and our area has 5 cases in 100,000. Admittedly it was zero cases a couple of weeks ago but I take greater risk than that walking out my front gate. |
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