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How very grim...
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"prob think its the best way to pull up all the sanctimonious virtue signalers on here?" Possibly best if those who don't want to read threads, but just be unpleasant, would stop reading. | |||
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"prob think its the best way to pull up all the sanctimonious virtue signalers on here?" What, by sending nonsense? Yes, that will show these people doing good and daring to speak about it. Have some twaddle! (Apparently - my filters don't allow for it) | |||
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"It is awful Charli. In my charitable moments I try to believe that they might at core be people frightened by something that is out of their control. A contagion spreading so fast that by the time they even realise it is in their area, it has already infected too many to ever eradicate it. It is something that too many people are not adequately equipped to properly understand, and when the scientists tell them that there is no instant comforting solution, they instead cling onto the words of charlatans who assure them of the efficacy of a miracle drug, just £50 for these wonder tablets and your family will be safe! They blame science, or foreigners, or doctors for failing to "make it go away", for not being able to "just open everything up again, put everything back to normal". In my darker moments I feel despair at the sad state of some human beings, who choose to be just plain nasty to others. " Yes, a mixture of pity yet disgust... nicely put x | |||
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"I know the virus threads have been for many months quite a volatile place where one posts at their own peril. What I don’t understand is this though, why some obviously real life, fully verified and long standing swingers wish not to engage on thread but instead send vile and damn right offensive messages to peoples inboxes. I’ve had plenty over the past 16 months, lots of armchair statisticians, self declared scientific minds who feel they are justified to undermine myself or more importantly the sadness I’ve seen in individuals stories over this period. I know I’m not alone in this kind of abuse, I know plenty of other people have received similar garbage but what I struggle to understand is just why people would be so sick, so ridiculously vile and insensitive in their comments whilst in turn being so cowardly in their manner of communication? " They have nothing to add of value to a public forum so they assume you require it in your inbox instead, I have also had it, I tend to just ask them to stop messaging me, if they don't, I block them. I'm confident in the choices I've made regarding covid and the vaccines, and I stand by the opinion that everyone should be vaccinated if they are medically able. I will not be shouted down by these cretins and mostly laugh at their attempts to do so. Stand strong, ignore the idiots and know that you're doing what's right and can hold your head high! | |||
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"I know the virus threads have been for many months quite a volatile place where one posts at their own peril. What I don’t understand is this though, why some obviously real life, fully verified and long standing swingers wish not to engage on thread but instead send vile and damn right offensive messages to peoples inboxes. I’ve had plenty over the past 16 months, lots of armchair statisticians, self declared scientific minds who feel they are justified to undermine myself or more importantly the sadness I’ve seen in individuals stories over this period. I know I’m not alone in this kind of abuse, I know plenty of other people have received similar garbage but what I struggle to understand is just why people would be so sick, so ridiculously vile and insensitive in their comments whilst in turn being so cowardly in their manner of communication? " Though Charlie what you are forgetting, and I replied to your posts both publicly, then when appropriate, privately, the appropriate time being when heated discussion ensues and a gang of followers jumps in. My discussions with you were courteous, questioning, honest and without malice. You and your supporters at the time were happy to dish out abuse…. No one could question your statements, your word was and you still believe is law! You mention in there undermining you….. I can fully understand an outburst regarding vindictive attack, but undermining you? That’s.. sort of …debate… unless you believe you aren’t to be questioned? So maybe those … long-standing swingers…. Maybe they oppose your idea, your tone, maybe they’re knobheads and maybe their replies are borne from the abusive messages delivered in some of your posts? | |||
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"prob think its the best way to pull up all the sanctimonious virtue signalers on here?" I was going to reply to Charli perhaps it's because some people simply are just cunts..  for elucidating much more than I might ever have if I had actually said that.. | |||
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"I know the virus threads have been for many months quite a volatile place where one posts at their own peril. What I don’t understand is this though, why some obviously real life, fully verified and long standing swingers wish not to engage on thread but instead send vile and damn right offensive messages to peoples inboxes. I’ve had plenty over the past 16 months, lots of armchair statisticians, self declared scientific minds who feel they are justified to undermine myself or more importantly the sadness I’ve seen in individuals stories over this period. I know I’m not alone in this kind of abuse, I know plenty of other people have received similar garbage but what I struggle to understand is just why people would be so sick, so ridiculously vile and insensitive in their comments whilst in turn being so cowardly in their manner of communication? " Horrible, how shameful. 
I've been lucky, I've had nothing but courteous messages of thanks and support by private message, which is always nice. | |||
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"prob think its the best way to pull up all the sanctimonious virtue signalers on here?" Green arrow, just from this account, doesn't signal any virtue. Unlike others who offer great positive contributions to our society.  | |||
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"prob think its the best way to pull up all the sanctimonious virtue signalers on here? Green arrow, just from this account, doesn't signal any virtue. Unlike others who offer great positive contributions to our society. "Lol, indeed | |||
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"I’ll revisit the OP. I have no idea Charli, why anyone sends you abusive messages. " Probably best to revisit it, justifying your armchair judgements from 9 months ago wouldn’t do you many favours would it. | |||
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 , have a nice day all you lovely people out there in fab land xxx | |||
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"As well as reasons pointed out on here I think there is a more straightforward reason “genuine swingers” might send private messages instead of posting in forum... They don’t want to risk a ban or having any shade cast on them that may hamper future swinging opportunities! A lot of people lurk rather than post across all the different forums, not just the virus. TBH part of me (Mr) wishes I hadn’t fallen down the dark hole that is the virus forum, but idle hands and all that! I post less now (same with other social media platforms) as it was affecting my mood, making me cross. I enjoy a good debate and at times have been known to play devil’s advocate or take a contrary view just to get things going. I abhor the tribalistic, black & white viewpoints that are propagated by social media. Life not binary. It has many flavours, shades, colours. Even the vaccine discussion is not binary with a right and a wrong. I would argue that vaccine evangelists are (almost) as dangerous as anti-vax conspiracy theorists. I don’t know where on the scale the truth is but I am certain it isn’t at either end. I welcomed Sky coining the phrase “vaccine hesitant” as it at last afforded some respect to those who dud have blind faith and wanted to ask eminently sensible questions without being lumped in with anti-vax nutters! However, I have started to observe a gradual erosion of that respect for the hesitant too (in these forums) with sometimes mob mentality and a pile on (by some). This all comes with a delicious slice of irony from a (swinging) community that are supposedly so tolerant of divergent beliefs and lifestyle preferences. And I do agree that the Virus forum has a number of people who most certainly are virtue signalling. I also agree that the forums seem to have become a target for anti-vax disinformation spreaders too! I just wish we could all be a bit nicer and more respectful to each other. It is really easy to be a keyboard warrior but I guarantee if we were all face-to-face debating there would be much better attitudes and behaviour! Anyway, rambled again, sucked into the virus forum again! Take care folks and be kind!" Very much agree with what you wrote there. There is definitely a mob mentality in the virus forum. | |||
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"It's been very unnerving reading the disintegration of what I would class as morals and compassion over the past year or so. What started off as light hearted banter then the realisation that the virus was and is a hell of a lot more serious than most of us first realised. Complacency by many assuming that as a nation stuff like this just doesn't happen to us. Fear and anxiety, ignorance and stupidity. The biggest culprit for all of these issues is the internet and the way that disinformation can spread like wildfire and the almost trendy fashion of jumping on the"scamdemic" bandwagon because it helps people justify their belligerent and self centered "me first and only me" mentality despite all of the evidence to the contrary. I'm not saying for a minute that everything we have heard from the government has been correct or 100% the truth,but as a people we only need to know enough to make sure we are doing what is asked. I have had some ridiculous messages trying to point out that it's all lies. I've yet to read anything or see any undeniable evidence to prove that the virus isn't what it seems. But once that we'll run dry they moved onto the anti vaccine bandwagon,and now the fear mongering bandwagon. It's all akin to a child throwing a tantrum and laying on the floor kicking and screaming because they can't get their own way. I appreciate people are scared and more so now with all the anti vaccine nonsense about. If people choose not to vaccinate than there's little I can do but once again as I have said previously it's not just about them. One thing that really set the tone from the beginning was the whole"well it's only old people who are dying so what should I care" something that I read countless times and to a certain degree still do. I'm not a nasty person and don't wish ill of anyone but for the life of me I am struggling to understand and be sympathetic towards people who give information gleamed from random Facebook posts and making anti everything post's based on their own political agenda. I despair for the future of humanity. Peace and love to all xx" well ran dry. Not we'll | |||
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"It's been very unnerving reading the disintegration of what I would class as morals and compassion over the past year or so. What started off as light hearted banter then the realisation that the virus was and is a hell of a lot more serious than most of us first realised. Complacency by many assuming that as a nation stuff like this just doesn't happen to us. Fear and anxiety, ignorance and stupidity. The biggest culprit for all of these issues is the internet and the way that disinformation can spread like wildfire and the almost trendy fashion of jumping on the"scamdemic" bandwagon because it helps people justify their belligerent and self centered "me first and only me" mentality despite all of the evidence to the contrary. I'm not saying for a minute that everything we have heard from the government has been correct or 100% the truth,but as a people we only need to know enough to make sure we are doing what is asked. I have had some ridiculous messages trying to point out that it's all lies. I've yet to read anything or see any undeniable evidence to prove that the virus isn't what it seems. But once that we'll run dry they moved onto the anti vaccine bandwagon,and now the fear mongering bandwagon. It's all akin to a child throwing a tantrum and laying on the floor kicking and screaming because they can't get their own way. I appreciate people are scared and more so now with all the anti vaccine nonsense about. If people choose not to vaccinate than there's little I can do but once again as I have said previously it's not just about them. One thing that really set the tone from the beginning was the whole"well it's only old people who are dying so what should I care" something that I read countless times and to a certain degree still do. I'm not a nasty person and don't wish ill of anyone but for the life of me I am struggling to understand and be sympathetic towards people who give information gleamed from random Facebook posts and making anti everything post's based on their own political agenda. I despair for the future of humanity. Peace and love to all xx" Well said. | |||
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"“I'm not saying for a minute that everything we have heard from the government has been correct or 100% the truth,but as a people we only need to know enough to make sure we are doing what is asked.” Therein lays one of the key problems of our time. We KNOW politicians lie and over past decade we have had things like the Iraq/WMD, expenses scandal, Brexit lies and misinformation (both sides), and now Covid. So the mistrust of govt and authority is probably at an all time high. Plus, if Cummings is to be believed today at Select Committee, then the corruption and ineptitude of this govt is unprecedented. They have sown confusion with poor communication and lack of timely decision making. Apparently Johnson said Covid was nothing to worry about as only killing over 80s! So with this background you cannot really blame people for not trusting or believing the govt. " See the thing I have with it is - I don't believe the government either. Not for a minute. But doctors, the NHS? Since when are they renowned liars who kick puppies and hate us for our freedom? My line from as early as I've paid attention has been trust the doctors and scientists, ignore the government. | |||
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"It's been very unnerving reading the disintegration of what I would class as morals and compassion over the past year or so. What started off as light hearted banter then the realisation that the virus was and is a hell of a lot more serious than most of us first realised. Complacency by many assuming that as a nation stuff like this just doesn't happen to us. Fear and anxiety, ignorance and stupidity. The biggest culprit for all of these issues is the internet and the way that disinformation can spread like wildfire and the almost trendy fashion of jumping on the"scamdemic" bandwagon because it helps people justify their belligerent and self centered "me first and only me" mentality despite all of the evidence to the contrary. I'm not saying for a minute that everything we have heard from the government has been correct or 100% the truth,but as a people we only need to know enough to make sure we are doing what is asked. I have had some ridiculous messages trying to point out that it's all lies. I've yet to read anything or see any undeniable evidence to prove that the virus isn't what it seems. But once that we'll run dry they moved onto the anti vaccine bandwagon,and now the fear mongering bandwagon. It's all akin to a child throwing a tantrum and laying on the floor kicking and screaming because they can't get their own way. I appreciate people are scared and more so now with all the anti vaccine nonsense about. If people choose not to vaccinate than there's little I can do but once again as I have said previously it's not just about them. One thing that really set the tone from the beginning was the whole"well it's only old people who are dying so what should I care" something that I read countless times and to a certain degree still do. I'm not a nasty person and don't wish ill of anyone but for the life of me I am struggling to understand and be sympathetic towards people who give information gleamed from random Facebook posts and making anti everything post's based on their own political agenda. I despair for the future of humanity. Peace and love to all xx" That's a great post. I agree with most. I'm not convinced about the fear part of it for a number of reasons. Mostly because we have a nanny system where I don't need to take care or be fearful because I know there is a really good chance that I will be looked after by someone else... Its my right to demand someone carries my fear for me... Etc. I saw genuine fear in my mums eyes when they carted her off to hospital to die of it, an image that haunts me still. Fear of a vaccine? No don't buy that. Fear of a bit of social distancing...? No. We need a massive effort to rebuild our sense of community, our environment, our culture and our values and from that the rest will start to fall into place. But it requires more than we seem prepared to do at the moment. We are at heart a very selfish nation and it doesn't serve us very well. | |||
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"@_naswingdress yes I hear you. I suspect (don’t actually know) most people have more trust in NHS but a lot have an inherent mistrust of big pharma (who are very often funding a lot of the scientists). Of course there are others who simply mistrust “authority” so I guess doctors and NHS falls into that?" Yeah. But I think "not trusting authority" in general is a smaller subset here. I agree the government has done harm here, I'll never disagree on that. But how do we get from there to "scientists and medical professionals (except these special ones we like) are all out to get us"? It boggles the mind | |||
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"@_naswingdress yes I hear you. I suspect (don’t actually know) most people have more trust in NHS but a lot have an inherent mistrust of big pharma (who are very often funding a lot of the scientists). Of course there are others who simply mistrust “authority” so I guess doctors and NHS falls into that? Yeah. But I think "not trusting authority" in general is a smaller subset here. I agree the government has done harm here, I'll never disagree on that. But how do we get from there to "scientists and medical professionals (except these special ones we like) are all out to get us"? It boggles the mind" Maybe looking for logic is the problem? This is emotive, so for some logic doesn’t come into it. It could simply come down to “I don’t trust THEM because they are different from ME and my friends” | |||
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"@_naswingdress yes I hear you. I suspect (don’t actually know) most people have more trust in NHS but a lot have an inherent mistrust of big pharma (who are very often funding a lot of the scientists). Of course there are others who simply mistrust “authority” so I guess doctors and NHS falls into that? Yeah. But I think "not trusting authority" in general is a smaller subset here. I agree the government has done harm here, I'll never disagree on that. But how do we get from there to "scientists and medical professionals (except these special ones we like) are all out to get us"? It boggles the mind Maybe looking for logic is the problem? This is emotive, so for some logic doesn’t come into it. It could simply come down to “I don’t trust THEM because they are different from ME and my friends”" I guess so. But where does that leave us, as a society which is so intricately interconnected and interdependent? Where everything can have a steep learning curve to understand adequately? 21st century meets hunter gatherer tribalism. I genuinely worry. | |||
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"@_naswingdress yes I hear you. I suspect (don’t actually know) most people have more trust in NHS but a lot have an inherent mistrust of big pharma (who are very often funding a lot of the scientists). Of course there are others who simply mistrust “authority” so I guess doctors and NHS falls into that? Yeah. But I think "not trusting authority" in general is a smaller subset here. I agree the government has done harm here, I'll never disagree on that. But how do we get from there to "scientists and medical professionals (except these special ones we like) are all out to get us"? It boggles the mind Maybe looking for logic is the problem? This is emotive, so for some logic doesn’t come into it. It could simply come down to “I don’t trust THEM because they are different from ME and my friends” I guess so. But where does that leave us, as a society which is so intricately interconnected and interdependent? Where everything can have a steep learning curve to understand adequately? 21st century meets hunter gatherer tribalism. I genuinely worry." If I had the answer I could get very rich!!! | |||
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"I know the virus threads have been for many months quite a volatile place where one posts at their own peril. What I don’t understand is this though, why some obviously real life, fully verified and long standing swingers wish not to engage on thread but instead send vile and damn right offensive messages to peoples inboxes. I’ve had plenty over the past 16 months, lots of armchair statisticians, self declared scientific minds who feel they are justified to undermine myself or more importantly the sadness I’ve seen in individuals stories over this period. I know I’m not alone in this kind of abuse, I know plenty of other people have received similar garbage but what I struggle to understand is just why people would be so sick, so ridiculously vile and insensitive in their comments whilst in turn being so cowardly in their manner of communication? " I too have been a victim to this. It's horrendous | |||
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"@_naswingdress yes I hear you. I suspect (don’t actually know) most people have more trust in NHS but a lot have an inherent mistrust of big pharma (who are very often funding a lot of the scientists). Of course there are others who simply mistrust “authority” so I guess doctors and NHS falls into that?" I have to say I hate the term “big Pharma”, why do people automatically correlate wealth with suspicion, mistrust or indeed cat stroking evil genius? Anyone having serious medical issues today for whatever illness is reliant on them and your chances of survival compared to say Victorian times or before are massively better... yes some of that can be accredited to surgery or treatment skills but the vast majority is down to the developments of the drug industry. If you look at any of the worlds leading surgeons in this country, most earn a fortune from work in the private sector, they perhaps reserve a few days a month for almost the pro-Bono cases and the NHS. Whether it’s surgeon or drug producer, if you are the best out there with a skill set that enables you to effectively play god... of course you find wealth, however that’s down to what they do, they save ‘priceless’ lives. It’s worth looking at average life expectancy since the rise of “big pharma” or as perhaps it should just be referred to, the industrialisation of pharmaceutical manufacture. It’s been a key contributor to doubling human life span. | |||
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"@_naswingdress yes I hear you. I suspect (don’t actually know) most people have more trust in NHS but a lot have an inherent mistrust of big pharma (who are very often funding a lot of the scientists). Of course there are others who simply mistrust “authority” so I guess doctors and NHS falls into that? I have to say I hate the term “big Pharma”, why do people automatically correlate wealth with suspicion, mistrust or indeed cat stroking evil genius? Anyone having serious medical issues today for whatever illness is reliant on them and your chances of survival compared to say Victorian times or before are massively better... yes some of that can be accredited to surgery or treatment skills but the vast majority is down to the developments of the drug industry. If you look at any of the worlds leading surgeons in this country, most earn a fortune from work in the private sector, they perhaps reserve a few days a month for almost the pro-Bono cases and the NHS. Whether it’s surgeon or drug producer, if you are the best out there with a skill set that enables you to effectively play god... of course you find wealth, however that’s down to what they do, they save ‘priceless’ lives. It’s worth looking at average life expectancy since the rise of “big pharma” or as perhaps it should just be referred to, the industrialisation of pharmaceutical manufacture. It’s been a key contributor to doubling human life span. "
As I said in another thread, I'd be long dead without it.
I think the pharmaceutical industry probably has its share of problems, but that's why we have medical regulators, doctors, etc. Consumer and patient protection.
Tbh I think most of the "big pharma" problems are more about the problems where it intersects with capitalism. | |||
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