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COVID Survivors
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Anybody able to explain why the numbers for people who have caught COVID and survived are hard to find but the exaggerated death numbers are are being reported daily? Wouldn’t it be a lot clearer to put out all the numbers? |
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I think it's quite hard to keep track of recoveries, since some people take months to recover. I have seen sites with stats that show recoveries (sorry, can't remember the website), but just didn't feel they were awfully accurate. Try google, that might come up with something. I'm sure it's published somewhere though!
What you could do is take total number of cases, take away people who have died of / with covid, maybe also take away number of people in hospital and there's your recoveries x |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Op where your evidence of exaggerated death's?
 "
This was on sky news last year, admitted by government officials, unfortunately I didn’t take note of the blokes name. He admitted that officials had put COVID on death certs when that’s not what killed them, a majority of them had tested positive but died by various means. All of this is available for public information. But the survivor rate is not p.s I’m no conspiracy theorist it’s just info what I’ve come across |
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"Op where your evidence of exaggerated death's?
This was on sky news last year, admitted by government officials, unfortunately I didn’t take note of the blokes name. He admitted that officials had put COVID on death certs when that’s not what killed them, a majority of them had tested positive but died by various means. All of this is available for public information. But the survivor rate is not p.s I’m no conspiracy theorist it’s just info what I’ve come across"
Take the daily infected figures, give it three weeks ish and deduct the daily deaths from said infected figure..
There's other ways of doing so..
As for exaggeration, I can't see why they would want to bit respect others differ..
Not much political capital in saying look how badly we've done, that's not to say I trust what they've been up to as all governments spin figures whatever the issue..
The figures that do concern me amongst others are how care homes were abandoned by and left to take positive people back from hospital etc..
How covid has emphasized the inequalities in society etc..
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"Op where your evidence of exaggerated death's?"
I personally know four people who have passed away , heart attacks etc who caught COVID in hospital and so that had to be put on death certificate, and was personally told by both a doctor and a nurse it has been happening , you can have COVID , recover and get knocked over by a bus , if within 28 days have a guess at cause of death
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By *ucka39Man
over a year ago
Newcastle |
The figures have never been accurate this has been a long going issue yet still not been answered and we'll never find out too much hush hush and the fact there was a concern about hospitals having a Do Not Resuscitate on certain patients Don't know if anyone remembers this or what the outcome was |
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"The figures have never been accurate this has been a long going issue yet still not been answered and we'll never find out too much hush hush and the fact there was a concern about hospitals having a Do Not Resuscitate on certain patients Don't know if anyone remembers this or what the outcome was "
There was an enquiry but the person leading it was struck by lightening whilst walking then fell backwards into the road shortly before the bus hit him so it went nowhere
Of course you won’t hear about that in the mainstream media |
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"Op where your evidence of exaggerated death's?I personally know four people who have passed away , heart attacks etc who caught COVID in hospital and so that had to be put on death certificate, and was personally told by both a doctor and a nurse it has been happening , you can have COVID , recover and get knocked over by a bus , if within 28 days have a guess at cause of death "
Getting people who have had a heart attack to hospital is one of the main factors in a positive outcome for that person, obviously without knowing the full medical history it's difficult to say either way how much of an effect catching the virus had on those person's other issues..
It's not a secret that the government has gone down the route of putting covid on death certificates when applicable..
The ONS numbers for last year show an excess of 80+ thousands over the five year average, the claim that deaths are not covid doesn't stack up against that figure.. |
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The 28 day figure was always an estimate. Fortunately there are other ways to look at it - excess mortality, or cause of death on death certificate (which is how any other death is measured).
I think people cling to the 28 days as a way to minimise or delegitimise the catastrophe. There's also a bit of Nirvana fallacy going on - if we can't know the truth 110%, then it's all lies.
We never know anything perfectly. That's just life. |
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"Op where your evidence of exaggerated death's?I personally know four people who have passed away , heart attacks etc who caught COVID in hospital and so that had to be put on death certificate, and was personally told by both a doctor and a nurse it has been happening , you can have COVID , recover and get knocked over by a bus , if within 28 days have a guess at cause of death "
The flip side of that is that if Kate Garraway's husband should due today, covid will not be recorded as cause of death.
I am not sure what you are saying. Everyone who has ever died and will ever die will will die of a heart attack.
I am doubtful that pathologist are writing covid as cause of death for people who came in crushed from a motorway pile up just because they had a covid diagnosis in the past 28 days. I could be convinced by the evidence though. |
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"Op where your evidence of exaggerated death's?I personally know four people who have passed away , heart attacks etc who caught COVID in hospital and so that had to be put on death certificate, and was personally told by both a doctor and a nurse it has been happening , you can have COVID , recover and get knocked over by a bus , if within 28 days have a guess at cause of death
The flip side of that is that if Kate Garraway's husband should due today, covid will not be recorded as cause of death.
I am not sure what you are saying. Everyone who has ever died and will ever die will will die of a heart attack.
I am doubtful that pathologist are writing covid as cause of death for people who came in crushed from a motorway pile up just because they had a covid diagnosis in the past 28 days. I could be convinced by the evidence though."
It isn't just heart attacks though. I know 2 people personally who have died "with covid" both had stage 4 cancer and were given less than 12 months to live at a best case scenario. Covid didn't kill them but covid is on both certificates.
There's defo cases of deaths being counted where they shouldn't. There's no big conspiracy though. It's unfortunately just the system they have put in place. If you throw out a big enough net you're bound to catch some things you weren't intending too. |
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"Op where your evidence of exaggerated death's?I personally know four people who have passed away , heart attacks etc who caught COVID in hospital and so that had to be put on death certificate, and was personally told by both a doctor and a nurse it has been happening , you can have COVID , recover and get knocked over by a bus , if within 28 days have a guess at cause of death
The flip side of that is that if Kate Garraway's husband should due today, covid will not be recorded as cause of death.
I am not sure what you are saying. Everyone who has ever died and will ever die will will die of a heart attack.
I am doubtful that pathologist are writing covid as cause of death for people who came in crushed from a motorway pile up just because they had a covid diagnosis in the past 28 days. I could be convinced by the evidence though.It isn't just heart attacks though. I know 2 people personally who have died "with covid" both had stage 4 cancer and were given less than 12 months to live at a best case scenario. Covid didn't kill them but covid is on both certificates.
There's defo cases of deaths being counted where they shouldn't. There's no big conspiracy though. It's unfortunately just the system they have put in place. If you throw out a big enough net you're bound to catch some things you weren't intending too."
Did Covid accelerate or exacerbate their death?
Say I'm diagnosed with cancer, given 6 months to live. 6 weeks later I'm hit by a bus, bleed out and die. Is it incorrect to say I was killed in a road traffic accident? |
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"Op where your evidence of exaggerated death's?I personally know four people who have passed away , heart attacks etc who caught COVID in hospital and so that had to be put on death certificate, and was personally told by both a doctor and a nurse it has been happening , you can have COVID , recover and get knocked over by a bus , if within 28 days have a guess at cause of death "
That's bollocks. It will be recorded as a Co-morbidity because you had it within 28 days but not as cause of death, especially in your scenario. |
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First thing anyone asks I've found if a loved one dies is "was it covid" not how did they for and I think a lot of deaths have been put down to covid because it is easier to do that rather than investigate the real causes and cheaper |
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Alot of the shall we say natural death rate. And the addition of Covid related deaths. The stats for covid death are also included for example to someone who died of natural causes is also in turn tagged as possible covid related in this instance gives as mentioned before inflamed figures. In relation to recoveries numbers this is hard to quantify as many have actually had covid but never knew they would be within the recoveries but unknown number |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I know about 20 people who have had confirmed COVID, three of which have died, two was in their 80’s lots of health problems (one had emphysema, not sure of other chap, but he was always in hospital) and the other was in 50s, obsessed with gym and fitness, literally healthier than prob all of us, yet caught it in hospital on a routine scan, died two weeks later.
It’s a horrible virus, it’s literally hit and miss how you are going to be affected, I think had it in the early days, affected all my muscles, felt as tired as anything yet my flat mate who I caught it off was absolutely fine, just a bit run down. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I also don’t trust the way the deaths are being reported, you could have a positive COVID test 27 days before, then die in a car crash and you will be counted. Numbers definitely strange however and I 100% believe people are dying in numbers because of it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Op where your evidence of exaggerated death's?I personally know four people who have passed away , heart attacks etc who caught COVID in hospital and so that had to be put on death certificate, and was personally told by both a doctor and a nurse it has been happening , you can have COVID , recover and get knocked over by a bus , if within 28 days have a guess at cause of death "
yea it is possible, but how many people get knocked over by a bus daily, even less when less people on the street during a stay at home order i would imagine, and then how many of them do you think had covid and had recovered in the last 28 days before being run over
just because something is possible does not mean its realistic or high volume |
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"Op where your evidence of exaggerated death's?I personally know four people who have passed away , heart attacks etc who caught COVID in hospital and so that had to be put on death certificate, and was personally told by both a doctor and a nurse it has been happening , you can have COVID , recover and get knocked over by a bus , if within 28 days have a guess at cause of death
The flip side of that is that if Kate Garraway's husband should due today, covid will not be recorded as cause of death.
I am not sure what you are saying. Everyone who has ever died and will ever die will will die of a heart attack.
I am doubtful that pathologist are writing covid as cause of death for people who came in crushed from a motorway pile up just because they had a covid diagnosis in the past 28 days. I could be convinced by the evidence though.It isn't just heart attacks though. I know 2 people personally who have died "with covid" both had stage 4 cancer and were given less than 12 months to live at a best case scenario. Covid didn't kill them but covid is on both certificates.
There's defo cases of deaths being counted where they shouldn't. There's no big conspiracy though. It's unfortunately just the system they have put in place. If you throw out a big enough net you're bound to catch some things you weren't intending too.
Did Covid accelerate or exacerbate their death?
Say I'm diagnosed with cancer, given 6 months to live. 6 weeks later I'm hit by a bus, bleed out and die. Is it incorrect to say I was killed in a road traffic accident?"
That's a case of clearly being killed in an accident. Someone being very poorly in hospital/hospice for at least two months prior to catching covid to be then put down as a covid death is a different scenario in my opinion, unfortunately both the families dealing with it feel similar and don't believe covid should be a factor on their loved ones death certs.
However, I have no better recommendation on how those deaths should be recorded. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Op where your evidence of exaggerated death's?I personally know four people who have passed away , heart attacks etc who caught COVID in hospital and so that had to be put on death certificate, and was personally told by both a doctor and a nurse it has been happening , you can have COVID , recover and get knocked over by a bus , if within 28 days have a guess at cause of death
Getting people who have had a heart attack to hospital is one of the main factors in a positive outcome for that person, obviously without knowing the full medical history it's difficult to say either way how much of an effect catching the virus had on those person's other issues..
It's not a secret that the government has gone down the route of putting covid on death certificates when applicable..
The ONS numbers for last year show an excess of 80+ thousands over the five year average, the claim that deaths are not covid doesn't stack up against that figure.."
100% this
it someone was in hospital alive long enough after a heart attack to catch and be tested for covid, it wasn’t the heart attack that killed them  |
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"Op where your evidence of exaggerated death's?I personally know four people who have passed away , heart attacks etc who caught COVID in hospital and so that had to be put on death certificate, and was personally told by both a doctor and a nurse it has been happening , you can have COVID , recover and get knocked over by a bus , if within 28 days have a guess at cause of death
The flip side of that is that if Kate Garraway's husband should due today, covid will not be recorded as cause of death.
I am not sure what you are saying. Everyone who has ever died and will ever die will will die of a heart attack.
I am doubtful that pathologist are writing covid as cause of death for people who came in crushed from a motorway pile up just because they had a covid diagnosis in the past 28 days. I could be convinced by the evidence though.It isn't just heart attacks though. I know 2 people personally who have died "with covid" both had stage 4 cancer and were given less than 12 months to live at a best case scenario. Covid didn't kill them but covid is on both certificates.
There's defo cases of deaths being counted where they shouldn't. There's no big conspiracy though. It's unfortunately just the system they have put in place. If you throw out a big enough net you're bound to catch some things you weren't intending too."
The point about heart attack is that no matter the underlying cause, it is a heart attack that will kill you.
But how do you know that Covid did not kill these cancer sufferers before their time? Unless you are the doctor treating them on the ward, you would not know. I would be interested to know what qualifications or insight that you possess that enables you to make this call.
Research has shown that people discharged from hospital are 3.5 times as likely as other patients to die within 140 days. If it's covid complications killing these people, they will not be counted among the covid stats. There are no perfect statistical models but it is a fact that we've had more that 80k excess death last year
Res |
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"First thing anyone asks I've found if a loved one dies is "was it covid" not how did they for and I think a lot of deaths have been put down to covid because it is easier to do that rather than investigate the real causes and cheaper"
Is that an opinion based on the evaluation of some available facts? Or is it just a feeling? |
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"I also don’t trust the way the deaths are being reported, you could have a positive COVID test 27 days before, then die in a car crash and you will be counted. Numbers definitely strange however and I 100% believe people are dying in numbers because of it"
Something to consider though - if covid gave someone a stroke while they were driving and they subsequently crashed and died, would you consider covid as contributing to the death?
We've no evidence that numbers are inflated through other reasons, and there's a lot of disinformation based off that.
None the less, and as you've acknowledged, there's a sufficiently high death toll to be concerned with.
Mr KC |
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By *ucka39Man
over a year ago
Newcastle |
"The figures have never been accurate this has been a long going issue yet still not been answered and we'll never find out too much hush hush and the fact there was a concern about hospitals having a Do Not Resuscitate on certain patients Don't know if anyone remembers this or what the outcome was
There was an enquiry but the person leading it was struck by lightening whilst walking then fell backwards into the road shortly before the bus hit him so it went nowhere
Of course you won’t hear about that in the mainstream media "
Might see something about it later in the near future one of those unexplained mysteries  |
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"Op where your evidence of exaggerated death's?I personally know four people who have passed away , heart attacks etc who caught COVID in hospital and so that had to be put on death certificate, and was personally told by both a doctor and a nurse it has been happening , you can have COVID , recover and get knocked over by a bus , if within 28 days have a guess at cause of death
The flip side of that is that if Kate Garraway's husband should due today, covid will not be recorded as cause of death.
I am not sure what you are saying. Everyone who has ever died and will ever die will will die of a heart attack.
I am doubtful that pathologist are writing covid as cause of death for people who came in crushed from a motorway pile up just because they had a covid diagnosis in the past 28 days. I could be convinced by the evidence though.It isn't just heart attacks though. I know 2 people personally who have died "with covid" both had stage 4 cancer and were given less than 12 months to live at a best case scenario. Covid didn't kill them but covid is on both certificates.
There's defo cases of deaths being counted where they shouldn't. There's no big conspiracy though. It's unfortunately just the system they have put in place. If you throw out a big enough net you're bound to catch some things you weren't intending too.
The point about heart attack is that no matter the underlying cause, it is a heart attack that will kill you.
But how do you know that Covid did not kill these cancer sufferers before their time? Unless you are the doctor treating them on the ward, you would not know. I would be interested to know what qualifications or insight that you possess that enables you to make this call."
As both patients were good friends, I spoke with them almost daily while they still could. I've also talked with both their doctors, nurses and the little family they had left. Covid had little to no effect on them. It was the cancer that killed them. |
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By *ucka39Man
over a year ago
Newcastle |
I also doubt we'll never know the truth behind number of deaths vaccine related because people in general would be more against having theirs but I'm still looking forward to getting mine soon |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I also doubt we'll never know the truth behind number of deaths vaccine related because people in general would be more against having theirs but I'm still looking forward to getting mine soon "
the point of a vaccine is to protect life , so what would be the point in giving it to people if we knew it was killing them?
if the vaccine was killing folk im pretty sure the medical community would speak out about that , i really doubt vaccine deaths are being hushed up to encourage people to take it - would defeat the purpose of having one at all |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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That’s a fair point, I’ve no idea how you select the cause of death for that one.
I cannot see any alternative to the reporting but the numbers are definitely strange. Biggest indicator to see just how many people are dying are the year on year figures, the a definitely up, by the 10,000s, think this is more accurate.
But no mistake, this is a horrible virus, just look at what’s happening to India. That could have been us if we didn’t have the lockdowns. The sooner it fucks off the better. |
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"Op where your evidence of exaggerated death's?I personally know four people who have passed away , heart attacks etc who caught COVID in hospital and so that had to be put on death certificate, and was personally told by both a doctor and a nurse it has been happening , you can have COVID , recover and get knocked over by a bus , if within 28 days have a guess at cause of death
The flip side of that is that if Kate Garraway's husband should due today, covid will not be recorded as cause of death.
I am not sure what you are saying. Everyone who has ever died and will ever die will will die of a heart attack.
I am doubtful that pathologist are writing covid as cause of death for people who came in crushed from a motorway pile up just because they had a covid diagnosis in the past 28 days. I could be convinced by the evidence though.It isn't just heart attacks though. I know 2 people personally who have died "with covid" both had stage 4 cancer and were given less than 12 months to live at a best case scenario. Covid didn't kill them but covid is on both certificates.
There's defo cases of deaths being counted where they shouldn't. There's no big conspiracy though. It's unfortunately just the system they have put in place. If you throw out a big enough net you're bound to catch some things you weren't intending too.
The point about heart attack is that no matter the underlying cause, it is a heart attack that will kill you.
But how do you know that Covid did not kill these cancer sufferers before their time? Unless you are the doctor treating them on the ward, you would not know. I would be interested to know what qualifications or insight that you possess that enables you to make this call.As both patients were good friends, I spoke with them almost daily while they still could. I've also talked with both their doctors, nurses and the little family they had left. Covid had little to no effect on them. It was the cancer that killed them."
So we have to take your word for it that in the middle of a pandemic, these people were in hospital being treated with visitors. And we are being asked to believe that you have such incredible access to ring up these doctors for them to tell you that they lied by putting down covid as cause of death. OK then |
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"Op where your evidence of exaggerated death's?I personally know four people who have passed away , heart attacks etc who caught COVID in hospital and so that had to be put on death certificate, and was personally told by both a doctor and a nurse it has been happening , you can have COVID , recover and get knocked over by a bus , if within 28 days have a guess at cause of death
The flip side of that is that if Kate Garraway's husband should due today, covid will not be recorded as cause of death.
I am not sure what you are saying. Everyone who has ever died and will ever die will will die of a heart attack.
I am doubtful that pathologist are writing covid as cause of death for people who came in crushed from a motorway pile up just because they had a covid diagnosis in the past 28 days. I could be convinced by the evidence though.It isn't just heart attacks though. I know 2 people personally who have died "with covid" both had stage 4 cancer and were given less than 12 months to live at a best case scenario. Covid didn't kill them but covid is on both certificates.
There's defo cases of deaths being counted where they shouldn't. There's no big conspiracy though. It's unfortunately just the system they have put in place. If you throw out a big enough net you're bound to catch some things you weren't intending too.
The point about heart attack is that no matter the underlying cause, it is a heart attack that will kill you.
But how do you know that Covid did not kill these cancer sufferers before their time? Unless you are the doctor treating them on the ward, you would not know. I would be interested to know what qualifications or insight that you possess that enables you to make this call.As both patients were good friends, I spoke with them almost daily while they still could. I've also talked with both their doctors, nurses and the little family they had left. Covid had little to no effect on them. It was the cancer that killed them.
So we have to take your word for it that in the middle of a pandemic, these people were in hospital being treated with visitors. And we are being asked to believe that you have such incredible access to ring up these doctors for them to tell you that they lied by putting down covid as cause of death. OK then"
They were in a hospice at the time of death actually. Zero visitors and no local family. So yes, as a very close friend, I did have access to doctors and mainly nurses. No one is claiming anyone lied 
They were tested for covid due to some staff testing positive, showed barely any symptoms and died weeks later. It was the stage 4 cancer in the throat that killed them, like they were told 8 or so months ago would happen.
I don't require you to take my word for it. My belief in anything doesn't require validation, so you can believe whatever you wish. |
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"Op where your evidence of exaggerated death's?I personally know four people who have passed away , heart attacks etc who caught COVID in hospital and so that had to be put on death certificate, and was personally told by both a doctor and a nurse it has been happening , you can have COVID , recover and get knocked over by a bus , if within 28 days have a guess at cause of death
The flip side of that is that if Kate Garraway's husband should due today, covid will not be recorded as cause of death.
I am not sure what you are saying. Everyone who has ever died and will ever die will will die of a heart attack.
I am doubtful that pathologist are writing covid as cause of death for people who came in crushed from a motorway pile up just because they had a covid diagnosis in the past 28 days. I could be convinced by the evidence though.It isn't just heart attacks though. I know 2 people personally who have died "with covid" both had stage 4 cancer and were given less than 12 months to live at a best case scenario. Covid didn't kill them but covid is on both certificates.
There's defo cases of deaths being counted where they shouldn't. There's no big conspiracy though. It's unfortunately just the system they have put in place. If you throw out a big enough net you're bound to catch some things you weren't intending too.
Did Covid accelerate or exacerbate their death?
Say I'm diagnosed with cancer, given 6 months to live. 6 weeks later I'm hit by a bus, bleed out and die. Is it incorrect to say I was killed in a road traffic accident?That's a case of clearly being killed in an accident. Someone being very poorly in hospital/hospice for at least two months prior to catching covid to be then put down as a covid death is a different scenario in my opinion, unfortunately both the families dealing with it feel similar and don't believe covid should be a factor on their loved ones death certs.
However, I have no better recommendation on how those deaths should be recorded. "
I'm not sure why what patients or their families feel has any bearing on causes of death.
Or why we don't worry about the people with unknown causes of death, or vague ones like pneumonia, who were never tested for Covid. Maybe the death rate is underestimated. |
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"Op where your evidence of exaggerated death's?I personally know four people who have passed away , heart attacks etc who caught COVID in hospital and so that had to be put on death certificate, and was personally told by both a doctor and a nurse it has been happening , you can have COVID , recover and get knocked over by a bus , if within 28 days have a guess at cause of death
The flip side of that is that if Kate Garraway's husband should due today, covid will not be recorded as cause of death.
I am not sure what you are saying. Everyone who has ever died and will ever die will will die of a heart attack.
I am doubtful that pathologist are writing covid as cause of death for people who came in crushed from a motorway pile up just because they had a covid diagnosis in the past 28 days. I could be convinced by the evidence though.It isn't just heart attacks though. I know 2 people personally who have died "with covid" both had stage 4 cancer and were given less than 12 months to live at a best case scenario. Covid didn't kill them but covid is on both certificates.
There's defo cases of deaths being counted where they shouldn't. There's no big conspiracy though. It's unfortunately just the system they have put in place. If you throw out a big enough net you're bound to catch some things you weren't intending too.
Did Covid accelerate or exacerbate their death?
Say I'm diagnosed with cancer, given 6 months to live. 6 weeks later I'm hit by a bus, bleed out and die. Is it incorrect to say I was killed in a road traffic accident?That's a case of clearly being killed in an accident. Someone being very poorly in hospital/hospice for at least two months prior to catching covid to be then put down as a covid death is a different scenario in my opinion, unfortunately both the families dealing with it feel similar and don't believe covid should be a factor on their loved ones death certs.
However, I have no better recommendation on how those deaths should be recorded.
I'm not sure why what patients or their families feel has any bearing on causes of death.
Or why we don't worry about the people with unknown causes of death, or vague ones like pneumonia, who were never tested for Covid. Maybe the death rate is underestimated."
They don't believe covid impacted their loved ones death. A positive test doesn't mean it played any part, especially when no symptoms were present.
I agree, maybe the death rate is underestimated it could easily swing both ways. |
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"Op where your evidence of exaggerated death's?I personally know four people who have passed away , heart attacks etc who caught COVID in hospital and so that had to be put on death certificate, and was personally told by both a doctor and a nurse it has been happening , you can have COVID , recover and get knocked over by a bus , if within 28 days have a guess at cause of death
The flip side of that is that if Kate Garraway's husband should due today, covid will not be recorded as cause of death.
I am not sure what you are saying. Everyone who has ever died and will ever die will will die of a heart attack.
I am doubtful that pathologist are writing covid as cause of death for people who came in crushed from a motorway pile up just because they had a covid diagnosis in the past 28 days. I could be convinced by the evidence though.It isn't just heart attacks though. I know 2 people personally who have died "with covid" both had stage 4 cancer and were given less than 12 months to live at a best case scenario. Covid didn't kill them but covid is on both certificates.
There's defo cases of deaths being counted where they shouldn't. There's no big conspiracy though. It's unfortunately just the system they have put in place. If you throw out a big enough net you're bound to catch some things you weren't intending too.
Did Covid accelerate or exacerbate their death?
Say I'm diagnosed with cancer, given 6 months to live. 6 weeks later I'm hit by a bus, bleed out and die. Is it incorrect to say I was killed in a road traffic accident?That's a case of clearly being killed in an accident. Someone being very poorly in hospital/hospice for at least two months prior to catching covid to be then put down as a covid death is a different scenario in my opinion, unfortunately both the families dealing with it feel similar and don't believe covid should be a factor on their loved ones death certs.
However, I have no better recommendation on how those deaths should be recorded.
I'm not sure why what patients or their families feel has any bearing on causes of death.
Or why we don't worry about the people with unknown causes of death, or vague ones like pneumonia, who were never tested for Covid. Maybe the death rate is underestimated.They don't believe covid impacted their loved ones death. A positive test doesn't mean it played any part, especially when no symptoms were present.
I agree, maybe the death rate is underestimated it could easily swing both ways."
And the relatives have medical qualifications in order to judge this? |
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"Op where your evidence of exaggerated death's?I personally know four people who have passed away , heart attacks etc who caught COVID in hospital and so that had to be put on death certificate, and was personally told by both a doctor and a nurse it has been happening , you can have COVID , recover and get knocked over by a bus , if within 28 days have a guess at cause of death
The flip side of that is that if Kate Garraway's husband should due today, covid will not be recorded as cause of death.
I am not sure what you are saying. Everyone who has ever died and will ever die will will die of a heart attack.
I am doubtful that pathologist are writing covid as cause of death for people who came in crushed from a motorway pile up just because they had a covid diagnosis in the past 28 days. I could be convinced by the evidence though.It isn't just heart attacks though. I know 2 people personally who have died "with covid" both had stage 4 cancer and were given less than 12 months to live at a best case scenario. Covid didn't kill them but covid is on both certificates.
There's defo cases of deaths being counted where they shouldn't. There's no big conspiracy though. It's unfortunately just the system they have put in place. If you throw out a big enough net you're bound to catch some things you weren't intending too.
Did Covid accelerate or exacerbate their death?
Say I'm diagnosed with cancer, given 6 months to live. 6 weeks later I'm hit by a bus, bleed out and die. Is it incorrect to say I was killed in a road traffic accident?That's a case of clearly being killed in an accident. Someone being very poorly in hospital/hospice for at least two months prior to catching covid to be then put down as a covid death is a different scenario in my opinion, unfortunately both the families dealing with it feel similar and don't believe covid should be a factor on their loved ones death certs.
However, I have no better recommendation on how those deaths should be recorded.
I'm not sure why what patients or their families feel has any bearing on causes of death.
Or why we don't worry about the people with unknown causes of death, or vague ones like pneumonia, who were never tested for Covid. Maybe the death rate is underestimated.They don't believe covid impacted their loved ones death. A positive test doesn't mean it played any part, especially when no symptoms were present.
I agree, maybe the death rate is underestimated it could easily swing both ways.
And the relatives have medical qualifications in order to judge this?"
no clue, I'm not particularly close to the rest of the family as they aren't local.
It's a moot point though, zero post mortem so covid is added to the death cert purely because of a positive test. It has no medical basis, its statistical at the core. |
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"Op where your evidence of exaggerated death's?I personally know four people who have passed away , heart attacks etc who caught COVID in hospital and so that had to be put on death certificate, and was personally told by both a doctor and a nurse it has been happening , you can have COVID , recover and get knocked over by a bus , if within 28 days have a guess at cause of death
The flip side of that is that if Kate Garraway's husband should due today, covid will not be recorded as cause of death.
I am not sure what you are saying. Everyone who has ever died and will ever die will will die of a heart attack.
I am doubtful that pathologist are writing covid as cause of death for people who came in crushed from a motorway pile up just because they had a covid diagnosis in the past 28 days. I could be convinced by the evidence though.It isn't just heart attacks though. I know 2 people personally who have died "with covid" both had stage 4 cancer and were given less than 12 months to live at a best case scenario. Covid didn't kill them but covid is on both certificates.
There's defo cases of deaths being counted where they shouldn't. There's no big conspiracy though. It's unfortunately just the system they have put in place. If you throw out a big enough net you're bound to catch some things you weren't intending too.
Did Covid accelerate or exacerbate their death?
Say I'm diagnosed with cancer, given 6 months to live. 6 weeks later I'm hit by a bus, bleed out and die. Is it incorrect to say I was killed in a road traffic accident?That's a case of clearly being killed in an accident. Someone being very poorly in hospital/hospice for at least two months prior to catching covid to be then put down as a covid death is a different scenario in my opinion, unfortunately both the families dealing with it feel similar and don't believe covid should be a factor on their loved ones death certs.
However, I have no better recommendation on how those deaths should be recorded.
I'm not sure why what patients or their families feel has any bearing on causes of death.
Or why we don't worry about the people with unknown causes of death, or vague ones like pneumonia, who were never tested for Covid. Maybe the death rate is underestimated.They don't believe covid impacted their loved ones death. A positive test doesn't mean it played any part, especially when no symptoms were present.
I agree, maybe the death rate is underestimated it could easily swing both ways.
And the relatives have medical qualifications in order to judge this?no clue, I'm not particularly close to the rest of the family as they aren't local.
It's a moot point though, zero post mortem so covid is added to the death cert purely because of a positive test. It has no medical basis, its statistical at the core."
This is in part how death certificates are done, always has been. Most people don't get post mortems.
The fact that it's only an issue because of Covid gets my hackles up. Why is it not an issue otherwise? |
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"Op where your evidence of exaggerated death's?I personally know four people who have passed away , heart attacks etc who caught COVID in hospital and so that had to be put on death certificate, and was personally told by both a doctor and a nurse it has been happening , you can have COVID , recover and get knocked over by a bus , if within 28 days have a guess at cause of death
The flip side of that is that if Kate Garraway's husband should due today, covid will not be recorded as cause of death.
I am not sure what you are saying. Everyone who has ever died and will ever die will will die of a heart attack.
I am doubtful that pathologist are writing covid as cause of death for people who came in crushed from a motorway pile up just because they had a covid diagnosis in the past 28 days. I could be convinced by the evidence though.It isn't just heart attacks though. I know 2 people personally who have died "with covid" both had stage 4 cancer and were given less than 12 months to live at a best case scenario. Covid didn't kill them but covid is on both certificates.
There's defo cases of deaths being counted where they shouldn't. There's no big conspiracy though. It's unfortunately just the system they have put in place. If you throw out a big enough net you're bound to catch some things you weren't intending too.
Did Covid accelerate or exacerbate their death?
Say I'm diagnosed with cancer, given 6 months to live. 6 weeks later I'm hit by a bus, bleed out and die. Is it incorrect to say I was killed in a road traffic accident?That's a case of clearly being killed in an accident. Someone being very poorly in hospital/hospice for at least two months prior to catching covid to be then put down as a covid death is a different scenario in my opinion, unfortunately both the families dealing with it feel similar and don't believe covid should be a factor on their loved ones death certs.
However, I have no better recommendation on how those deaths should be recorded.
I'm not sure why what patients or their families feel has any bearing on causes of death.
Or why we don't worry about the people with unknown causes of death, or vague ones like pneumonia, who were never tested for Covid. Maybe the death rate is underestimated.They don't believe covid impacted their loved ones death. A positive test doesn't mean it played any part, especially when no symptoms were present.
I agree, maybe the death rate is underestimated it could easily swing both ways.
And the relatives have medical qualifications in order to judge this?no clue, I'm not particularly close to the rest of the family as they aren't local.
It's a moot point though, zero post mortem so covid is added to the death cert purely because of a positive test. It has no medical basis, its statistical at the core.
This is in part how death certificates are done, always has been. Most people don't get post mortems.
The fact that it's only an issue because of Covid gets my hackles up. Why is it not an issue otherwise?"
I've never had a personal interaction with it to become an issue for myself? Maybe it should be addressed or maybe data collection at that level is bound to have its flaws.
I'm just giving my personal experience with the "within 28 days" of the stats. |
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By *ucka39Man
over a year ago
Newcastle |
"I also doubt we'll never know the truth behind number of deaths vaccine related because people in general would be more against having theirs but I'm still looking forward to getting mine soon
the point of a vaccine is to protect life , so what would be the point in giving it to people if we knew it was killing them?
if the vaccine was killing folk im pretty sure the medical community would speak out about that , i really doubt vaccine deaths are being hushed up to encourage people to take it - would defeat the purpose of having one at all "
I'm guessing you know if there is any long term effects from the vaccine and I mean by illnesses created from this like past experiences that people occurred which ended up being life changing |
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"Op where your evidence of exaggerated death's?I personally know four people who have passed away , heart attacks etc who caught COVID in hospital and so that had to be put on death certificate, and was personally told by both a doctor and a nurse it has been happening , you can have COVID , recover and get knocked over by a bus , if within 28 days have a guess at cause of death
The flip side of that is that if Kate Garraway's husband should due today, covid will not be recorded as cause of death.
I am not sure what you are saying. Everyone who has ever died and will ever die will will die of a heart attack.
I am doubtful that pathologist are writing covid as cause of death for people who came in crushed from a motorway pile up just because they had a covid diagnosis in the past 28 days. I could be convinced by the evidence though.It isn't just heart attacks though. I know 2 people personally who have died "with covid" both had stage 4 cancer and were given less than 12 months to live at a best case scenario. Covid didn't kill them but covid is on both certificates.
There's defo cases of deaths being counted where they shouldn't. There's no big conspiracy though. It's unfortunately just the system they have put in place. If you throw out a big enough net you're bound to catch some things you weren't intending too.
Did Covid accelerate or exacerbate their death?
Say I'm diagnosed with cancer, given 6 months to live. 6 weeks later I'm hit by a bus, bleed out and die. Is it incorrect to say I was killed in a road traffic accident?That's a case of clearly being killed in an accident. Someone being very poorly in hospital/hospice for at least two months prior to catching covid to be then put down as a covid death is a different scenario in my opinion, unfortunately both the families dealing with it feel similar and don't believe covid should be a factor on their loved ones death certs.
However, I have no better recommendation on how those deaths should be recorded.
I'm not sure why what patients or their families feel has any bearing on causes of death.
Or why we don't worry about the people with unknown causes of death, or vague ones like pneumonia, who were never tested for Covid. Maybe the death rate is underestimated.They don't believe covid impacted their loved ones death. A positive test doesn't mean it played any part, especially when no symptoms were present.
I agree, maybe the death rate is underestimated it could easily swing both ways.
And the relatives have medical qualifications in order to judge this?no clue, I'm not particularly close to the rest of the family as they aren't local.
It's a moot point though, zero post mortem so covid is added to the death cert purely because of a positive test. It has no medical basis, its statistical at the core.
This is in part how death certificates are done, always has been. Most people don't get post mortems.
The fact that it's only an issue because of Covid gets my hackles up. Why is it not an issue otherwise?I've never had a personal interaction with it to become an issue for myself? Maybe it should be addressed or maybe data collection at that level is bound to have its flaws.
I'm just giving my personal experience with the "within 28 days" of the stats. "
There are other measures.
I had a relative who died of a massive heart attack - a small barely detected cancer was on his death certificate too. That's the way these things work. |
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"Oh, after reading the rest it is the whole ran over by a bus thing
I really don't know why inflating numbers of deaths would be a good thing for the Gov to do"
The argument of those that think the figures are inflated is:
Higher infection and death figures create fear. This fear allows "them" to control the people into staying at home and wearing masks
Personally I can't think of any reason why "they" want us to stay at home and wear masks.. and drastically reduce the amount of tax we pay?
Cal |
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"Oh, after reading the rest it is the whole ran over by a bus thing
I really don't know why inflating numbers of deaths would be a good thing for the Gov to do
The argument of those that think the figures are inflated is:
Higher infection and death figures create fear. This fear allows "them" to control the people into staying at home and wearing masks
Personally I can't think of any reason why "they" want us to stay at home and wear masks.. and drastically reduce the amount of tax we pay?
Cal"
The Tories really enjoy massive welfare bills and throwing a wrecking ball through the economy. Apparently.
On what planet  |
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Can someone please explain to me why the government would lie about the death rate and lock down a country for no reason costing them billions and thousands of jobs all I hear is that the government are lying about Covid it just doesn’t make sense for those of you that know better than me please explain |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I also doubt we'll never know the truth behind number of deaths vaccine related because people in general would be more against having theirs but I'm still looking forward to getting mine soon
the point of a vaccine is to protect life , so what would be the point in giving it to people if we knew it was killing them?
if the vaccine was killing folk im pretty sure the medical community would speak out about that , i really doubt vaccine deaths are being hushed up to encourage people to take it - would defeat the purpose of having one at all
I'm guessing you know if there is any long term effects from the vaccine and I mean by illnesses created from this like past experiences that people occurred which ended up being life changing"
i have no idea what you actually asked me there sorry , it sounds like you might be asking me to predict the future which is ridiculous and speculation of as yet future hypothetical illness not what i was posting about - i replied to a comment about vaccine related deaths which other than the very few blood clot cases which we have heard about, i dont believe exist |
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Isn’t it easy to work out the number of survivors? Those testing positive less those who have sadly died?
Media focus on the negative as this is where the story is. Also, if the public thought that significantly more survived than died, there is a huge danger that complacency would be even higher, and people would be even less sensible (like those on fab who clearly still meet - dicks!) |
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A quick google has given me -
4.42 million reported infections in the UK with 128 thousand deaths.
You can add to that people who were asymptomatic and those who felt a bit fluey and were never tested.
Or do you mean those hospitalised? |
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"Oh, after reading the rest it is the whole ran over by a bus thing
I really don't know why inflating numbers of deaths would be a good thing for the Gov to do
The argument of those that think the figures are inflated is:
Higher infection and death figures create fear. This fear allows "them" to control the people into staying at home and wearing masks
Personally I can't think of any reason why "they" want us to stay at home and wear masks.. and drastically reduce the amount of tax we pay?
Cal
The Tories really enjoy massive welfare bills and throwing a wrecking ball through the economy. Apparently.
On what planet "
It's the new poster for the next election, we made it all up to get your vote.. |
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"Oh, after reading the rest it is the whole ran over by a bus thing
I really don't know why inflating numbers of deaths would be a good thing for the Gov to do
The argument of those that think the figures are inflated is:
Higher infection and death figures create fear. This fear allows "them" to control the people into staying at home and wearing masks
Personally I can't think of any reason why "they" want us to stay at home and wear masks.. and drastically reduce the amount of tax we pay?
Cal
The Tories really enjoy massive welfare bills and throwing a wrecking ball through the economy. Apparently.
On what planet
It's the new poster for the next election, we made it all up to get your vote.. "
|
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"Op where your evidence of exaggerated death's?I personally know four people who have passed away , heart attacks etc who caught COVID in hospital and so that had to be put on death certificate, and was personally told by both a doctor and a nurse it has been happening , you can have COVID , recover and get knocked over by a bus , if within 28 days have a guess at cause of death "
Heart attacks are often caused by blood clots. Covid causes blood clots. Covid causes heart attacks (and strokes, and kidney failure, and lung injury, and a bunch of other life threatening damage). |
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I think one thing the UK can't be accused of is exaggerated covid figures, there may be some different figures based on varying criteria, but if we missed just one death it would be front and centre of every media outlet.
I couldn't be as confident of some other nations and how they have been reporting covid figures. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I'm a survivor. Still have long covid alongside breathing problems due to also having pneumonia of the lungs at the time.
Doctors have been useless.
No covid support at all.
Had my 1st jab which made me throw my guts up the next day. See what happens soon as I'm skint and need work, yet can't do my usual role.
I'll admit to hating wearing masks as I can't breath with then on too well now.
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