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Kids Next
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By *dd269 OP Man
over a year ago
Clee |
In two or three months time we will have vaccinated all the adults who are able and willing.
When will they start vaccinating the children?
They’re the spreaders - snotty little buggers - who’d ‘ave ‘em?
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When they've completed clinical trials in the younger age groups. Some children in very high risk groups can be vaccinated "off label" if their medical professionals believe that the benefits outweigh the risks, but I don't think many such examples have been done. |
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It's unethical to provide medical treatments to children, when they haven't been tested on them for safety and it's wasteful of a scarce resource if research hasn't demonstrated that they work.
There's some research active on some of them at least, so we may get results in time.
The vaccines would also need approval for children too.
As the UK isn't now in such a dire emergency, it's not as pressing to need emergency approval changes, based on best estimates, it should be science based. |
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By *uma69Man
over a year ago
stockport |
Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed |
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"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed "
Someone said this on here recently that it's on the information leaflet when you get the jab but this is of course not true. |
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"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed "
I've not been asked this. I will look on the information I get on wednesday when i gladly get my second dose |
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"In two or three months time we will have vaccinated all the adults who are able and willing.
When will they start vaccinating the children?
They’re the spreaders - snotty little buggers - who’d ‘ave ‘em?
"
The return to school would indicate that they aren't spreading this as much... If at all.
For my kids... I'd need a very compelling reason. Such as strong and unambiguous evidence they do spread it. That they are at risk from long term harm if they didn't have it. That it is an effective use of time and resources to vaccinate children. And that it had been thoroughly tested for them. None of which is currently true. We don't need to get carried away with vaccine fever. |
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"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed "
If by trial you mean post trial monitoring, then yes. Same as happens with every other drug. So scary. Regular protocol  |
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"In two or three months time we will have vaccinated all the adults who are able and willing.
When will they start vaccinating the children?
They’re the spreaders - snotty little buggers - who’d ‘ave ‘em?
The return to school would indicate that they aren't spreading this as much... If at all.
For my kids... I'd need a very compelling reason. Such as strong and unambiguous evidence they do spread it. That they are at risk from long term harm if they didn't have it. That it is an effective use of time and resources to vaccinate children. And that it had been thoroughly tested for them. None of which is currently true. We don't need to get carried away with vaccine fever. "
Reports are coming out about Long Covid in children. It's worrying.
The trials are happening. |
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"In two or three months time we will have vaccinated all the adults who are able and willing.
When will they start vaccinating the children?
They’re the spreaders - snotty little buggers - who’d ‘ave ‘em?
"
I'm sure the announced that children will be getting shot in August. |
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"In two or three months time we will have vaccinated all the adults who are able and willing.
When will they start vaccinating the children?
They’re the spreaders - snotty little buggers - who’d ‘ave ‘em?
I'm sure the announced that children will be getting shot in August."
Obviously that should be "getting their shot"  |
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"....and trial either is or has started for 6 to 17 year olds.
I thought they halted the trials on under 18s acpl of weeks ago or have they started them back up again"
That is my understanding to for the Oxford one, along with those aged 18-30 will be given an alternative vaccine.
I will be in no rush to have my child vaccinated unless absolutely necessary. Since September our school has only had four positive results and one of those was a child, all prior to December. Since then we have had 100% negative tests results. When the time comes, my child will make his own decision to have it or not. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"In two or three months time we will have vaccinated all the adults who are able and willing.
When will they start vaccinating the children?
They’re the spreaders - snotty little buggers - who’d ‘ave ‘em?
"
Think you'll find kids are not the only spreaders! |
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"....and trial either is or has started for 6 to 17 year olds.
I thought they halted the trials on under 18s acpl of weeks ago or have they started them back up again"
I believe they are ongoing again. I know a few under 18s that have had their vaccines due to their vulnerability status |
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"to think that kids whom this virus barely brushes should be vaccinated with an experimental jab is nothing short of criminal..."
its safe and tested. And not all kids it barely brushes.
As I said my daughter has applied with my full backing to be part of the under 18s trials |
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"to think that kids whom this virus barely brushes should be vaccinated with an experimental jab is nothing short of criminal...its safe and tested. And not all kids it barely brushes.
As I said my daughter has applied with my full backing to be part of the under 18s trials "
its not safe and has cause ddeaths and injures..of course you wont see that on the MSM ...as for tested its an experimental jab rushed through without being fully tested...
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"to think that kids whom this virus barely brushes should be vaccinated with an experimental jab is nothing short of criminal...its safe and tested. And not all kids it barely brushes.
As I said my daughter has applied with my full backing to be part of the under 18s trials its not safe and has cause ddeaths and injures..of course you wont see that on the MSM ...as for tested its an experimental jab rushed through without being fully tested...
"
I'm sorry but your talking rubbish. It was not rushed through it's been explained many many times.
I help with the vaccine effort.. and proud to be part of it.
I actually do not know anyone who hasn't had the vaccine or who isn't waiting anxiously to have it. I also despite having a very very wide circle of contacts... know no one who has had more than mild issues.
But this is about should kids have It. I think if the trials underway prove positive then yes at least 11 and up they should |
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"to think that kids whom this virus barely brushes should be vaccinated with an experimental jab is nothing short of criminal...its safe and tested. And not all kids it barely brushes.
As I said my daughter has applied with my full backing to be part of the under 18s trials its not safe and has cause ddeaths and injures..of course you wont see that on the MSM ...as for tested its an experimental jab rushed through without being fully tested...
I'm sorry but your talking rubbish. It was not rushed through it's been explained many many times.
I help with the vaccine effort.. and proud to be part of it.
I actually do not know anyone who hasn't had the vaccine or who isn't waiting anxiously to have it. I also despite having a very very wide circle of contacts... know no one who has had more than mild issues.
But this is about should kids have It. I think if the trials underway prove positive then yes at least 11 and up they should"
and the deaths and injuiries..thats false to is it......you need to take your head out of the TV |
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"to think that kids whom this virus barely brushes should be vaccinated with an experimental jab is nothing short of criminal...its safe and tested. And not all kids it barely brushes.
As I said my daughter has applied with my full backing to be part of the under 18s trials its not safe and has cause ddeaths and injures..of course you wont see that on the MSM ...as for tested its an experimental jab rushed through without being fully tested...
I'm sorry but your talking rubbish. It was not rushed through it's been explained many many times.
I help with the vaccine effort.. and proud to be part of it.
I actually do not know anyone who hasn't had the vaccine or who isn't waiting anxiously to have it. I also despite having a very very wide circle of contacts... know no one who has had more than mild issues.
But this is about should kids have It. I think if the trials underway prove positive then yes at least 11 and up they shouldand the deaths and injuiries..thats false to is it......you need to take your head out of the TV "
I shall stick to medical journals. Yes there have been a few deaths but out of the number of vaccines given the odds are ridiculous.. talking 0.0000 something. I did read the actual figures. And that's just deaths within 28 days of having the vaccine. Doesnt mean it was actually the vaccine.
I looked into it a lot when the blood clot concern came out. As I am at high risk of them and had already had my first AstraZeneca dose and was due to have my 2nd.. so I looked into it a lot.
I also am part of several studies that are helping with understanding the vaccine and the virus. |
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"to think that kids whom this virus barely brushes should be vaccinated with an experimental jab is nothing short of criminal...its safe and tested. And not all kids it barely brushes.
As I said my daughter has applied with my full backing to be part of the under 18s trials its not safe and has cause ddeaths and injures..of course you wont see that on the MSM ...as for tested its an experimental jab rushed through without being fully tested...
I'm sorry but your talking rubbish. It was not rushed through it's been explained many many times.
I help with the vaccine effort.. and proud to be part of it.
I actually do not know anyone who hasn't had the vaccine or who isn't waiting anxiously to have it. I also despite having a very very wide circle of contacts... know no one who has had more than mild issues.
But this is about should kids have It. I think if the trials underway prove positive then yes at least 11 and up they shouldand the deaths and injuiries..thats false to is it......you need to take your head out of the TV I shall stick to medical journals. Yes there have been a few deaths but out of the number of vaccines given the odds are ridiculous.. talking 0.0000 something. I did read the actual figures. And that's just deaths within 28 days of having the vaccine. Doesnt mean it was actually the vaccine.
I looked into it a lot when the blood clot concern came out. As I am at high risk of them and had already had my first AstraZeneca dose and was due to have my 2nd.. so I looked into it a lot.
I also am part of several studies that are helping with understanding the vaccine and the virus. "
sure they are counting covid deaths as anyone who dies within 28 days of a positive test..even if you fall off a ladder in that time..utter horse shit we are living through....if you are one of those that believ the worlds population need to be vaccinated for a virus that kills 0.0075 of those who come in contact with and effects mainly the elderly with serious co-morbidities then you my dear are a part of the problem here |
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https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting
I have had covid. It was the most awful thing I've ever had
I've lost several friends and colleagues to it, a few family members and seeing more and more fit and healthy people suffering from long covid.
The vaccine is helping .. it doesn't just protect the person who takes it but helps to stop the spread too. I'd take the vaccine over the risk of having covid any time. Glad I've had both of mine now. The positive effect its had in care homes across the county is remarkable |
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"In two or three months time we will have vaccinated all the adults who are able and willing.
When will they start vaccinating the children?
They’re the spreaders - snotty little buggers - who’d ‘ave ‘em?
I'm sure the announced that children will be getting shot in August.
Obviously that should be "getting their shot" "
In some cases your original statement may be better... |
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"to think that kids whom this virus barely brushes should be vaccinated with an experimental jab is nothing short of criminal...its safe and tested. And not all kids it barely brushes.
As I said my daughter has applied with my full backing to be part of the under 18s trials its not safe and has cause ddeaths and injures..of course you wont see that on the MSM ...as for tested its an experimental jab rushed through without being fully tested...
I'm sorry but your talking rubbish. It was not rushed through it's been explained many many times.
I help with the vaccine effort.. and proud to be part of it.
I actually do not know anyone who hasn't had the vaccine or who isn't waiting anxiously to have it. I also despite having a very very wide circle of contacts... know no one who has had more than mild issues.
But this is about should kids have It. I think if the trials underway prove positive then yes at least 11 and up they shouldand the deaths and injuiries..thats false to is it......you need to take your head out of the TV I shall stick to medical journals. Yes there have been a few deaths but out of the number of vaccines given the odds are ridiculous.. talking 0.0000 something. I did read the actual figures. And that's just deaths within 28 days of having the vaccine. Doesnt mean it was actually the vaccine.
I looked into it a lot when the blood clot concern came out. As I am at high risk of them and had already had my first AstraZeneca dose and was due to have my 2nd.. so I looked into it a lot.
I also am part of several studies that are helping with understanding the vaccine and the virus. sure they are counting covid deaths as anyone who dies within 28 days of a positive test..even if you fall off a ladder in that time..utter horse shit we are living through....if you are one of those that believ the worlds population need to be vaccinated for a virus that kills 0.0075 of those who come in contact with and effects mainly the elderly with serious co-morbidities then you my dear are a part of the problem here "
If not believing this nonsense is being part of the problem, then I am delighted to be part of the problem |
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By *nmkinkCouple
over a year ago
Birmingham |
"to think that kids whom this virus barely brushes should be vaccinated with an experimental jab is nothing short of criminal...its safe and tested. And not all kids it barely brushes.
As I said my daughter has applied with my full backing to be part of the under 18s trials its not safe and has cause ddeaths and injures..of course you wont see that on the MSM ...as for tested its an experimental jab rushed through without being fully tested...
I'm sorry but your talking rubbish. It was not rushed through it's been explained many many times.
I help with the vaccine effort.. and proud to be part of it.
I actually do not know anyone who hasn't had the vaccine or who isn't waiting anxiously to have it. I also despite having a very very wide circle of contacts... know no one who has had more than mild issues.
But this is about should kids have It. I think if the trials underway prove positive then yes at least 11 and up they shouldand the deaths and injuiries..thats false to is it......you need to take your head out of the TV I shall stick to medical journals. Yes there have been a few deaths but out of the number of vaccines given the odds are ridiculous.. talking 0.0000 something. I did read the actual figures. And that's just deaths within 28 days of having the vaccine. Doesnt mean it was actually the vaccine.
I looked into it a lot when the blood clot concern came out. As I am at high risk of them and had already had my first AstraZeneca dose and was due to have my 2nd.. so I looked into it a lot.
I also am part of several studies that are helping with understanding the vaccine and the virus. sure they are counting covid deaths as anyone who dies within 28 days of a positive test..even if you fall off a ladder in that time..utter horse shit we are living through....if you are one of those that believ the worlds population need to be vaccinated for a virus that kills 0.0075 of those who come in contact with and effects mainly the elderly with serious co-morbidities then you my dear are a part of the problem here "
Always good to hear the coherent views of an expert  |
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By *rman82Man
over a year ago
Manchester |
"In two or three months time we will have vaccinated all the adults who are able and willing.
When will they start vaccinating the children?
They’re the spreaders - snotty little buggers - who’d ‘ave ‘em?
The return to school would indicate that they aren't spreading this as much... If at all.
For my kids... I'd need a very compelling reason. Such as strong and unambiguous evidence they do spread it. That they are at risk from long term harm if they didn't have it. That it is an effective use of time and resources to vaccinate children. And that it had been thoroughly tested for them. None of which is currently true. We don't need to get carried away with vaccine fever. "
Couldn’t agree more... |
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By *rman82Man
over a year ago
Manchester |
"In two or three months time we will have vaccinated all the adults who are able and willing.
When will they start vaccinating the children?
They’re the spreaders - snotty little buggers - who’d ‘ave ‘em?
The return to school would indicate that they aren't spreading this as much... If at all.
For my kids... I'd need a very compelling reason. Such as strong and unambiguous evidence they do spread it. That they are at risk from long term harm if they didn't have it. That it is an effective use of time and resources to vaccinate children. And that it had been thoroughly tested for them. None of which is currently true. We don't need to get carried away with vaccine fever.
Reports are coming out about Long Covid in children. It's worrying.
The trials are happening."
Couldn’t disagree more... |
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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago
Dudley |
"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed "
No they aren't, that's just some crap you read on facebook. People signed up for the clinical trials, it's those people that will be in the trials until 2023. |
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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago
Dudley |
"In two or three months time we will have vaccinated all the adults who are able and willing.
When will they start vaccinating the children?
They’re the spreaders - snotty little buggers - who’d ‘ave ‘em?
The return to school would indicate that they aren't spreading this as much... If at all.
For my kids... I'd need a very compelling reason. Such as strong and unambiguous evidence they do spread it. That they are at risk from long term harm if they didn't have it. That it is an effective use of time and resources to vaccinate children. And that it had been thoroughly tested for them. None of which is currently true. We don't need to get carried away with vaccine fever. "
Agreed, I will see what the situation is like when the time comes, although my daughter, at the age of 16, can make the decision herself. |
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By *ady LickWoman
over a year ago
Northampton Somewhere |
"In two or three months time we will have vaccinated all the adults who are able and willing.
When will they start vaccinating the children?
They’re the spreaders - snotty little buggers - who’d ‘ave ‘em?
The return to school would indicate that they aren't spreading this as much... If at all.
For my kids... I'd need a very compelling reason. Such as strong and unambiguous evidence they do spread it. That they are at risk from long term harm if they didn't have it. That it is an effective use of time and resources to vaccinate children. And that it had been thoroughly tested for them. None of which is currently true. We don't need to get carried away with vaccine fever.
Agreed, I will see what the situation is like when the time comes, although my daughter, at the age of 16, can make the decision herself. "
How would you feel if she didn't want it? Just interested because you seem to be pretty adamant on most threads that everyone should have the vaccine if they can. |
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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago
Dudley |
"In two or three months time we will have vaccinated all the adults who are able and willing.
When will they start vaccinating the children?
They’re the spreaders - snotty little buggers - who’d ‘ave ‘em?
The return to school would indicate that they aren't spreading this as much... If at all.
For my kids... I'd need a very compelling reason. Such as strong and unambiguous evidence they do spread it. That they are at risk from long term harm if they didn't have it. That it is an effective use of time and resources to vaccinate children. And that it had been thoroughly tested for them. None of which is currently true. We don't need to get carried away with vaccine fever.
Agreed, I will see what the situation is like when the time comes, although my daughter, at the age of 16, can make the decision herself.
How would you feel if she didn't want it? Just interested because you seem to be pretty adamant on most threads that everyone should have the vaccine if they can."
That's a good question, obviously I would explain my point of view, tell her why it is important for everyone that is able to, be vaccinated. I would also show her the data about side effects etc.
I went through this with her with the HPV vaccine, she didn't want it because she doesn't like needles, so we sat down and researched it, looked at the pros and cons, after that she decided that the pros far outweighed the cons and she had both jabs. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed "
That’s utter tosh |
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"to think that kids whom this virus barely brushes should be vaccinated with an experimental jab is nothing short of criminal...its safe and tested. And not all kids it barely brushes.
As I said my daughter has applied with my full backing to be part of the under 18s trials its not safe and has cause ddeaths and injures..of course you wont see that on the MSM ...as for tested its an experimental jab rushed through without being fully tested...
I'm sorry but your talking rubbish. It was not rushed through it's been explained many many times.
I help with the vaccine effort.. and proud to be part of it.
I actually do not know anyone who hasn't had the vaccine or who isn't waiting anxiously to have it. I also despite having a very very wide circle of contacts... know no one who has had more than mild issues.
But this is about should kids have It. I think if the trials underway prove positive then yes at least 11 and up they shouldand the deaths and injuiries..thats false to is it......you need to take your head out of the TV I shall stick to medical journals. Yes there have been a few deaths but out of the number of vaccines given the odds are ridiculous.. talking 0.0000 something. I did read the actual figures. And that's just deaths within 28 days of having the vaccine. Doesnt mean it was actually the vaccine.
I looked into it a lot when the blood clot concern came out. As I am at high risk of them and had already had my first AstraZeneca dose and was due to have my 2nd.. so I looked into it a lot.
I also am part of several studies that are helping with understanding the vaccine and the virus. sure they are counting covid deaths as anyone who dies within 28 days of a positive test..even if you fall off a ladder in that time..utter horse shit we are living through....if you are one of those that believ the worlds population need to be vaccinated for a virus that kills 0.0075 of those who come in contact with and effects mainly the elderly with serious co-morbidities then you my dear are a part of the problem here "
In this country, we are very privileged to have experienced the pandemic from a "protected" point of view, and with a great health service. If you check out what is happening in Brasil and India, you will see how different is COULD be.
Cal |
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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago
Dudley |
"Very sensible approach. You are obviously an intelligent and concerned mother, giving sensible good advice to a daughter who is also well brought up and open to reasoned argument."
Thankyou. |
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"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
No they aren't, that's just some crap you read on facebook. People signed up for the clinical trials, it's those people that will be in the trials until 2023. "
No telling some people that though. |
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"to think that kids whom this virus barely brushes should be vaccinated with an experimental jab is nothing short of criminal..."
There are many approved vaccines and are beyond the stages of being experimental for most of the population, ie adults. After further research trials, if evidence is good for safety and efficacy, then it's not in the slightest bit 'criminal' or unwise, to vaccinate people who have contact with others. The vaccines show good promise to reduce the numbers of infected people, so it's smart to increase the benefits of such security, as the country relaxes more restrictions and gets everyone together again. |
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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago
Dudley |
"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
No they aren't, that's just some crap you read on facebook. People signed up for the clinical trials, it's those people that will be in the trials until 2023.
No telling some people that though."
It's crazy, they say that it states on the vaccine information leaflet that you're taking part in a trial, it literally doesn't say that anywhere but they still spout it out as if it's a fact. |
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"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
No they aren't, that's just some crap you read on facebook. People signed up for the clinical trials, it's those people that will be in the trials until 2023.
No telling some people that though.
It's crazy, they say that it states on the vaccine information leaflet that you're taking part in a trial, it literally doesn't say that anywhere but they still spout it out as if it's a fact. "
I think if it was experimental in the leaflet I may have noticed it. I've read the leaflet for all of them now |
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"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
No they aren't, that's just some crap you read on facebook. People signed up for the clinical trials, it's those people that will be in the trials until 2023.
No telling some people that though.
It's crazy, they say that it states on the vaccine information leaflet that you're taking part in a trial, it literally doesn't say that anywhere but they still spout it out as if it's a fact. "
Sheeple have this habit of baa baa repeating the nonsense that they hear somewhere or other, like Facebook etc Keeley and don't engage their thinking abilities  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
That’s utter tosh"
Nope they are absolutely right. These are mRNA injections not officially vaccinations and are in experimental trials until 2023. Also the pharmaceutical companies have negotiated 'non liabity' clauses. Please check for yourself. |
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"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
That’s utter tosh
Nope they are absolutely right. These are mRNA injections not officially vaccinations and are in experimental trials until 2023. Also the pharmaceutical companies have negotiated 'non liabity' clauses. Please check for yourself. "
I've just checked. They aren't experimental and aren't still in trials.
https://www.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL1N2M70MW
As for getting the non liability clause... so? It makes no difference to us as it means the governments are taking on the responsibility not the company.
The governments have asked them not to make a profit from the vaccine which they agreed to, so even if one person had an adverse reaction and sued them, they would end up at a financial loss.
No company would ever put themselves at that risk, and I can't blame them. |
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"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
That’s utter tosh
Nope they are absolutely right. These are mRNA injections not officially vaccinations and are in experimental trials until 2023. Also the pharmaceutical companies have negotiated 'non liabity' clauses. Please check for yourself. "
Not all the vaccines use the mRNA platform and irrespective, any substance that when injected stimulates an immune response to a specific antigen, is a vaccine. Ergo, all the vaccines are, somewhat unsurprisingly, vaccines.
Trials bit has been covered above.
See what Cockosaurus said about the liability thing. |
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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago
Dudley |
"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
That’s utter tosh
Nope they are absolutely right. These are mRNA injections not officially vaccinations and are in experimental trials until 2023. Also the pharmaceutical companies have negotiated 'non liabity' clauses. Please check for yourself. "
The non liability clause is quite common in these situations.
Please check for yourself the accuracy of what you're posting. |
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"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
No they aren't, that's just some crap you read on facebook. People signed up for the clinical trials, it's those people that will be in the trials until 2023.
No telling some people that though.
It's crazy, they say that it states on the vaccine information leaflet that you're taking part in a trial, it literally doesn't say that anywhere but they still spout it out as if it's a fact. "
Its common sense I would say.. There's no way to avoid being a Guinea pig in a big experiment.. So may as well just get on with it.. Life's too short at the end of the day. |
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"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
That’s utter tosh
Nope they are absolutely right. These are mRNA injections not officially vaccinations and are in experimental trials until 2023. Also the pharmaceutical companies have negotiated 'non liabity' clauses. Please check for yourself. "
The mRNA vaccines are - surprise, surprise - actually vaccines.
All of the vaccines for Sars-Cov-2 are covered by the same compensation scheme as other vaccines in the UK. I can't speak for some of the claptrap that gets posted ad nauseum on the likes of social media, as that's laughable and highly dangerous in the effects that it is.
Best to seek appropriate, meaningful details via respected scientific literature or the government's own websites, which is freely available. |
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"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
That’s utter tosh
Nope they are absolutely right. These are mRNA injections not officially vaccinations and are in experimental trials until 2023. Also the pharmaceutical companies have negotiated 'non liabity' clauses. Please check for yourself. "
People posting such things should reference their sources, to credible agencies. Otherwise, repeated pasting of things that are alarming and have no basis in reality, are harmful to everyone. |
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"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
That’s utter tosh
Nope they are absolutely right. These are mRNA injections not officially vaccinations and are in experimental trials until 2023. Also the pharmaceutical companies have negotiated 'non liabity' clauses. Please check for yourself. "
I've checked for myself and this is not true. |
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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago
Dudley |
"You wouldn't believe the amount of utter bollocks I'm receiving in private messages based around this thread...I despair sometimes. "
Yeah I've had a few unpleasant messages, I just giggle to myself. |
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"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
That’s utter tosh
Nope they are absolutely right. These are mRNA injections not officially vaccinations and are in experimental trials until 2023. Also the pharmaceutical companies have negotiated 'non liabity' clauses. Please check for yourself. I've checked for myself and this is not true. "
What exactly did you check? And What exactly isn’t true?  |
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"You wouldn't believe the amount of utter bollocks I'm receiving in private messages based around this thread...I despair sometimes. "
I’ve had a few, I just tell them to keep it to the thread, ask in here and I’ll answer it but they never do |
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"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
That’s utter tosh
Nope they are absolutely right. These are mRNA injections not officially vaccinations and are in experimental trials until 2023. Also the pharmaceutical companies have negotiated 'non liabity' clauses. Please check for yourself. I've checked for myself and this is not true.
What exactly did you check? And What exactly isn’t true? "
The vaccinations are proper vaccines.... they are not experimental ( unless you were part of the trials already) the non liability is the same as others, they are subject to the vaccine damage program |
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"You wouldn't believe the amount of utter bollocks I'm receiving in private messages based around this thread...I despair sometimes.
I’ve had a few, I just tell them to keep it to the thread, ask in here and I’ll answer it but they never do "
Odd that I've had none.
Are they just picking on the women as they think they are an easier target (definitely not true)?
I'm going to get loads now aren't I?  |
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"You wouldn't believe the amount of utter bollocks I'm receiving in private messages based around this thread...I despair sometimes.
I’ve had a few, I just tell them to keep it to the thread, ask in here and I’ll answer it but they never do
Odd that I've had none.
Are they just picking on the women as they think they are an easier target (definitely not true)?
I'm going to get loads now aren't I? "
Shall we send one so you don't feel left out?! |
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"You wouldn't believe the amount of utter bollocks I'm receiving in private messages based around this thread...I despair sometimes.
I’ve had a few, I just tell them to keep it to the thread, ask in here and I’ll answer it but they never do
Odd that I've had none.
Are they just picking on the women as they think they are an easier target (definitely not true)?
I'm going to get loads now aren't I?
Shall we send one so you don't feel left out?!"
As long as it's not mean  |
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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago
Dudley |
"You wouldn't believe the amount of utter bollocks I'm receiving in private messages based around this thread...I despair sometimes.
I’ve had a few, I just tell them to keep it to the thread, ask in here and I’ll answer it but they never do
Odd that I've had none.
Are they just picking on the women as they think they are an easier target (definitely not true)?
I'm going to get loads now aren't I? "
That's hilarious, I don't think anyone that's met me would ever think I'm an easy target |
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"You wouldn't believe the amount of utter bollocks I'm receiving in private messages based around this thread...I despair sometimes.
I’ve had a few, I just tell them to keep it to the thread, ask in here and I’ll answer it but they never do
Odd that I've had none.
Are they just picking on the women as they think they are an easier target (definitely not true)?
I'm going to get loads now aren't I?
That's hilarious, I don't think anyone that's met me would ever think I'm an easy target "
I've never met you, but I kind of guessed you wouldn't be |
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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago
Dudley |
"You wouldn't believe the amount of utter bollocks I'm receiving in private messages based around this thread...I despair sometimes.
I’ve had a few, I just tell them to keep it to the thread, ask in here and I’ll answer it but they never do
Odd that I've had none.
Are they just picking on the women as they think they are an easier target (definitely not true)?
I'm going to get loads now aren't I?
That's hilarious, I don't think anyone that's met me would ever think I'm an easy target
I've never met you, but I kind of guessed you wouldn't be "
 |
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"You wouldn't believe the amount of utter bollocks I'm receiving in private messages based around this thread...I despair sometimes.
I’ve had a few, I just tell them to keep it to the thread, ask in here and I’ll answer it but they never do "
Good advice, I'll do this in future |
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"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
That’s utter tosh
Nope they are absolutely right. These are mRNA injections not officially vaccinations and are in experimental trials until 2023. Also the pharmaceutical companies have negotiated 'non liabity' clauses. Please check for yourself. I've checked for myself and this is not true.
What exactly did you check? And What exactly isn’t true?
The vaccinations are proper vaccines.... they are not experimental ( unless you were part of the trials already) the non liability is the same as others, they are subject to the vaccine damage program "
Did you also check that the BioNTech coronavirus vaccine has been given an “estimated study completion date” of Jan. 31, 2023.. and for the COVID-19 vaccine created by Moderna, studies are expected to end on Oct. 27, 2022?? links pasted below
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728?term=NCT04368728&draw=2&rank=1
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04470427?term=NCT04470427&draw=2&rank=1
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"In two or three months time we will have vaccinated all the adults who are able and willing.
When will they start vaccinating the children?
They’re the spreaders - snotty little buggers - who’d ‘ave ‘em?
"
Well not really. They shut the schools and it still spread and rates went up. Similar to when we all claimed shut the pubs, yet rates still went up.
I've been sceptical for adults and the hastily put together vaccine, (I will have it on the basis it will be required to go places).
Children? Good luck with that one. There is a growing group of people that still won't immunise their children even with tried and well tested common vaccines, so I think and totally understand concerns around this one and kids.
I'm no antivaccer by any means, I would encourage anyone to get theirs but children that don't have a choice, I'd want to see a lot more evidence and testings first. |
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"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
That’s utter tosh
Nope they are absolutely right. These are mRNA injections not officially vaccinations and are in experimental trials until 2023. Also the pharmaceutical companies have negotiated 'non liabity' clauses. Please check for yourself. I've checked for myself and this is not true.
What exactly did you check? And What exactly isn’t true?
The vaccinations are proper vaccines.... they are not experimental ( unless you were part of the trials already) the non liability is the same as others, they are subject to the vaccine damage program
Did you also check that the BioNTech coronavirus vaccine has been given an “estimated study completion date” of Jan. 31, 2023.. and for the COVID-19 vaccine created by Moderna, studies are expected to end on Oct. 27, 2022?? links pasted below
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728?term=NCT04368728&draw=2&rank=1
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04470427?term=NCT04470427&draw=2&rank=1
"
The links you provide are the standard American system that lists all clinical trials. Those vaccines are approved in the UK, which is done by the MHRA. As we're in the UK, the meaningful regulations etc are here. Those vaccines also have UK compensation coverage, that's at the same full level as other vaccines.
Ongoing research continues for extra data, such as on their effectiveness with children. Initial volunteers are also monitored for extended periods, which allows us to find out how long the immunity lasts for etc. |
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"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
That’s utter tosh
Nope they are absolutely right. These are mRNA injections not officially vaccinations and are in experimental trials until 2023. Also the pharmaceutical companies have negotiated 'non liabity' clauses. Please check for yourself. I've checked for myself and this is not true.
What exactly did you check? And What exactly isn’t true?
The vaccinations are proper vaccines.... they are not experimental ( unless you were part of the trials already) the non liability is the same as others, they are subject to the vaccine damage program
Did you also check that the BioNTech coronavirus vaccine has been given an “estimated study completion date” of Jan. 31, 2023.. and for the COVID-19 vaccine created by Moderna, studies are expected to end on Oct. 27, 2022?? links pasted below
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728?term=NCT04368728&draw=2&rank=1
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04470427?term=NCT04470427&draw=2&rank=1
The links you provide are the standard American system that lists all clinical trials. Those vaccines are approved in the UK, which is done by the MHRA. As we're in the UK, the meaningful regulations etc are here. Those vaccines also have UK compensation coverage, that's at the same full level as other vaccines.
Ongoing research continues for extra data, such as on their effectiveness with children. Initial volunteers are also monitored for extended periods, which allows us to find out how long the immunity lasts for etc. "
Ok.. thanks for clarifying.. so much mix information out there |
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"You wouldn't believe the amount of utter bollocks I'm receiving in private messages based around this thread...I despair sometimes.
I’ve had a few, I just tell them to keep it to the thread, ask in here and I’ll answer it but they never do
Odd that I've had none.
Are they just picking on the women as they think they are an easier target (definitely not true)?
I'm going to get loads now aren't I?
Shall we send one so you don't feel left out?!
As long as it's not mean "
I fell asleep, so no crazy message, soz Cockasaurus |
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"You wouldn't believe the amount of utter bollocks I'm receiving in private messages based around this thread...I despair sometimes.
I’ve had a few, I just tell them to keep it to the thread, ask in here and I’ll answer it but they never do
Odd that I've had none.
Are they just picking on the women as they think they are an easier target (definitely not true)?
I'm going to get loads now aren't I?
Shall we send one so you don't feel left out?!
As long as it's not mean
I fell asleep, so no crazy message, soz Cockasaurus "
Tch! I'll let you off this time |
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"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
That’s utter tosh
Nope they are absolutely right. These are mRNA injections not officially vaccinations and are in experimental trials until 2023. Also the pharmaceutical companies have negotiated 'non liabity' clauses. Please check for yourself. I've checked for myself and this is not true.
What exactly did you check? And What exactly isn’t true?
The vaccinations are proper vaccines.... they are not experimental ( unless you were part of the trials already) the non liability is the same as others, they are subject to the vaccine damage program
Did you also check that the BioNTech coronavirus vaccine has been given an “estimated study completion date” of Jan. 31, 2023.. and for the COVID-19 vaccine created by Moderna, studies are expected to end on Oct. 27, 2022?? links pasted below
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728?term=NCT04368728&draw=2&rank=1
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04470427?term=NCT04470427&draw=2&rank=1
The links you provide are the standard American system that lists all clinical trials. Those vaccines are approved in the UK, which is done by the MHRA. As we're in the UK, the meaningful regulations etc are here. Those vaccines also have UK compensation coverage, that's at the same full level as other vaccines.
Ongoing research continues for extra data, such as on their effectiveness with children. Initial volunteers are also monitored for extended periods, which allows us to find out how long the immunity lasts for etc.
Ok.. thanks for clarifying.. so much mix information out there "
. You're welcome. A lot of agencies are using this period to cause unrest, by showing uncertainty and trying to stop us being as confident as we can be, as we start to lead out into the new safer world. |
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"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
That’s utter tosh
Nope they are absolutely right. These are mRNA injections not officially vaccinations and are in experimental trials until 2023. Also the pharmaceutical companies have negotiated 'non liabity' clauses. Please check for yourself. I've checked for myself and this is not true.
What exactly did you check? And What exactly isn’t true?
The vaccinations are proper vaccines.... they are not experimental ( unless you were part of the trials already) the non liability is the same as others, they are subject to the vaccine damage program
Did you also check that the BioNTech coronavirus vaccine has been given an “estimated study completion date” of Jan. 31, 2023.. and for the COVID-19 vaccine created by Moderna, studies are expected to end on Oct. 27, 2022?? links pasted below
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728?term=NCT04368728&draw=2&rank=1
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04470427?term=NCT04470427&draw=2&rank=1
The links you provide are the standard American system that lists all clinical trials. Those vaccines are approved in the UK, which is done by the MHRA. As we're in the UK, the meaningful regulations etc are here. Those vaccines also have UK compensation coverage, that's at the same full level as other vaccines.
Ongoing research continues for extra data, such as on their effectiveness with children. Initial volunteers are also monitored for extended periods, which allows us to find out how long the immunity lasts for etc. "
thanks for replying. It seems so many are grabbing data and trying to make it fit |
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By *DGF20Man
over a year ago
Dublin |
Kids should be taken immediately from parents who are happy to vaccinate their kids with untested vaccine, btw what symptoms kids have? Probably none, so for fuck sake leave the kids away from this idea |
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"Kids should be taken immediately from parents who are happy to vaccinate their kids with untested vaccine, btw what symptoms kids have? Probably none, so for fuck sake leave the kids away from this idea "
"Probably none"?
I'm glad to see you've done your research. Maybe you should do some more |
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By *d6869Man
over a year ago
Aberdeen |
"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
That’s utter tosh
Nope they are absolutely right. These are mRNA injections not officially vaccinations and are in experimental trials until 2023. Also the pharmaceutical companies have negotiated 'non liabity' clauses. Please check for yourself.
I've just checked. They aren't experimental and aren't still in trials.
https://www.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL1N2M70MW
As for getting the non liability clause... so? It makes no difference to us as it means the governments are taking on the responsibility not the company.
The governments have asked them not to make a profit from the vaccine which they agreed to, so even if one person had an adverse reaction and sued them, they would end up at a financial loss.
No company would ever put themselves at that risk, and I can't blame them. "
They will make profit at some point |
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"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
That’s utter tosh
Nope they are absolutely right. These are mRNA injections not officially vaccinations and are in experimental trials until 2023. Also the pharmaceutical companies have negotiated 'non liabity' clauses. Please check for yourself.
I've just checked. They aren't experimental and aren't still in trials.
https://www.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL1N2M70MW
As for getting the non liability clause... so? It makes no difference to us as it means the governments are taking on the responsibility not the company.
The governments have asked them not to make a profit from the vaccine which they agreed to, so even if one person had an adverse reaction and sued them, they would end up at a financial loss.
No company would ever put themselves at that risk, and I can't blame them.
They will make profit at some point"
I mean yeah, businesses make profit.
Welcome to capitalism |
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"Kids should be taken immediately from parents who are happy to vaccinate their kids with untested vaccine, btw what symptoms kids have? Probably none, so for fuck sake leave the kids away from this idea "
Kids should be protected from parents who have crazy ideas and don't protect them against diseases that could have life changing effects into adulthood. Once a vaccine has been proved safe, use it for Christ's sake.
I bloody wish that chicken pox vaccine had been invented when I was a kid, instead I got infected with that miserable disease. So what, it's just a kids illness you say? Except it lays dormant in your body forever, and every few years pops up as a crippling outbreak of shingles. Last year it flared across my head and face, agony to touch, and the doctor warned me that if it got into my eyes there was serious danger of blindness. Fortunately I do believe in science, and my body responded well to the (no doubt still experimental in your mind because they've only been around ten years or so) antiviral drugs, so this time I was all okay again in as little as a month. Before antiviral science, shingles could gives years of pain and even kill.
We have no idea of the long term effects of covid on kids, but can be assured they won't be good. Disability, loss of fertility, long term fatigue, respiratory problems, liver damage? All very possible. So don't give your kids a reason to hate you in later life, as soon as there is proven safe treatment available, get your kids protected! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Kids should be taken immediately from parents who are happy to vaccinate their kids with untested vaccine, btw what symptoms kids have? Probably none, so for fuck sake leave the kids away from this idea
Kids should be protected from parents who have crazy ideas and don't protect them against diseases that could have life changing effects into adulthood. Once a vaccine has been proved safe, use it for Christ's sake.
I bloody wish that chicken pox vaccine had been invented when I was a kid, instead I got infected with that miserable disease. So what, it's just a kids illness you say? Except it lays dormant in your body forever, and every few years pops up as a crippling outbreak of shingles. Last year it flared across my head and face, agony to touch, and the doctor warned me that if it got into my eyes there was serious danger of blindness. Fortunately I do believe in science, and my body responded well to the (no doubt still experimental in your mind because they've only been around ten years or so) antiviral drugs, so this time I was all okay again in as little as a month. Before antiviral science, shingles could gives years of pain and even kill.
We have no idea of the long term effects of covid on kids, but can be assured they won't be good. Disability, loss of fertility, long term fatigue, respiratory problems, liver damage? All very possible. So don't give your kids a reason to hate you in later life, as soon as there is proven safe treatment available, get your kids protected!"
My kids will not be having the vaccine. They don’t have the flu spray either every year. If they hate me in later life because I didn’t give it to them then il take that in my stride but I somehow think she won’t end up with a deep sense of hatred for me over a vaccination. |
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By *anky_PankyWoman
over a year ago
Filthy Fuckeryville |
I also live in the states and back in Feb/Mar they started vaccinating some teenage school kids on a voluntary basis as a trial. The kids they interviewed were all very proud to be helping out and they saw it as a service to their elders and country!
Thats a very American thing though - comes from a religious upbringing I think which some parts of Midwest are very religious. When I was asked which church I attended and my reply was that I didn't, I was seriously frowned at  |
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By *oulustCouple
over a year ago
kent |
After shutting and destroying businesses and livelihoods across the country it’s pretty much now become apparent that most of the spreading happened in care homes and hospitals.
Which of course should come as no surprise really. |
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"Kids should be taken immediately from parents who are happy to vaccinate their kids with untested vaccine, btw what symptoms kids have? Probably none, so for fuck sake leave the kids away from this idea "
Wow so my kids should be taken away as my 14 year old has with my blessing applied to test the vaccine. She feels it will be a good thing. 1 in 3 people I think it is has no symptoms. Hence she is testing 3 times a week. She wants to have the vaccine to protect herself and her vulnerable friends and family. I fully support her.. besides the fact it is actually not untested... just not been tested on many kids in this country as yet. |
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"I also live in the states and back in Feb/Mar they started vaccinating some teenage school kids on a voluntary basis as a trial. The kids they interviewed were all very proud to be helping out and they saw it as a service to their elders and country!
Thats a very American thing though - comes from a religious upbringing I think which some parts of Midwest are very religious. When I was asked which church I attended and my reply was that I didn't, I was seriously frowned at "
It can be an Australian thing, too - with or without the religion. |
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"After shutting and destroying businesses and livelihoods across the country it’s pretty much now become apparent that most of the spreading happened in care homes and hospitals.
Which of course should come as no surprise really."
Things have varied along the course of the pandemic, with initial problems in the NHS, which discharged infected patients to care homes. These last few months have been different. Currently younger people, including children over 22, and especially men, are a key demographic where infections have been acquired.
You bemoan the effect on businesses, pointing to care homes and the NHS. They made grave early mistakes. The virus was already seeded around the country, staff in the care homes, for example too, don't just exist at work and home - they have broader lives, mixing elsewhere.
We have just 2 key tools to reduce infections and the impact on our lives -
1. Restrictions, a la lockdown etc
2. Vaccines
The vaccines are a more recent success but think back a few weeks to after Christmas. Infections were everywhere, amongst the whole of society, especially working people. If you'd wanted greater exponential growth in infections, you'd have done nothing, keeping all relaxations going. This is what Brazil did. And its what India did, after declaring it had beaten the virus, after the first wave. They're not success stories and thank god that the UK imported restrictions, otherwise we would have been in that camp.
Restrictions and vaccines, that's all we have. |
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"You'd need to be mental to let them spike your kids with that shit! "
If they are thoroughly tested and effective, then they are potentially a successful way to keep our society in good health and prosperity. |
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"Kids should be taken immediately from parents who are happy to vaccinate their kids with untested vaccine, btw what symptoms kids have? Probably none, so for fuck sake leave the kids away from this idea "
This virus, like others, needs people to get infected and to infect others. Even if kids didn't get any symptoms - though they do - they act as a source of infection to adults and other kids.
Currently, the 12+ age group is an important source of the virus being passed around. Not everyone can be vaccinated, soif the healthiest amongst us gets it, it helps to protect them, whilst being negligible to kids due to their strength and resilience. |
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"Kids should be taken immediately from parents who are happy to vaccinate their kids with untested vaccine, btw what symptoms kids have? Probably none, so for fuck sake leave the kids away from this idea
Wow so my kids should be taken away as my 14 year old has with my blessing applied to test the vaccine. She feels it will be a good thing. 1 in 3 people I think it is has no symptoms. Hence she is testing 3 times a week. She wants to have the vaccine to protect herself and her vulnerable friends and family. I fully support her.. besides the fact it is actually not untested... just not been tested on many kids in this country as yet. "
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"Kids should be taken immediately from parents who are happy to vaccinate their kids with untested vaccine, btw what symptoms kids have? Probably none, so for fuck sake leave the kids away from this idea
This virus, like others, needs people to get infected and to infect others. Even if kids didn't get any symptoms - though they do - they act as a source of infection to adults and other kids.
Currently, the 12+ age group is an important source of the virus being passed around. Not everyone can be vaccinated, soif the healthiest amongst us gets it, it helps to protect them, whilst being negligible to kids due to their strength and resilience. "
I wonder whether these people who resist vaccine trials support permanent lockdown. Because that isn't terrible for children at all |
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By *d6869Man
over a year ago
Aberdeen |
"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
That’s utter tosh
Nope they are absolutely right. These are mRNA injections not officially vaccinations and are in experimental trials until 2023. Also the pharmaceutical companies have negotiated 'non liabity' clauses. Please check for yourself.
I've just checked. They aren't experimental and aren't still in trials.
https://www.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL1N2M70MW
As for getting the non liability clause... so? It makes no difference to us as it means the governments are taking on the responsibility not the company.
The governments have asked them not to make a profit from the vaccine which they agreed to, so even if one person had an adverse reaction and sued them, they would end up at a financial loss.
No company would ever put themselves at that risk, and I can't blame them.
They will make profit at some point
I mean yeah, businesses make profit.
Welcome to capitalism "
Not free market capitalism, but that’s for another discussion |
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"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
That’s utter tosh
Nope they are absolutely right. These are mRNA injections not officially vaccinations and are in experimental trials until 2023. Also the pharmaceutical companies have negotiated 'non liabity' clauses. Please check for yourself.
I've just checked. They aren't experimental and aren't still in trials.
https://www.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL1N2M70MW
As for getting the non liability clause... so? It makes no difference to us as it means the governments are taking on the responsibility not the company.
The governments have asked them not to make a profit from the vaccine which they agreed to, so even if one person had an adverse reaction and sued them, they would end up at a financial loss.
No company would ever put themselves at that risk, and I can't blame them.
They will make profit at some point
I mean yeah, businesses make profit.
Welcome to capitalism
Not free market capitalism, but that’s for another discussion "
You're right, it is another conversation.
But... businesses make profit for stuff that's in demand. Unless you want to seize the means of production etc then that's just the way it goes. |
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"Kids should be taken immediately from parents who are happy to vaccinate their kids with untested vaccine, btw what symptoms kids have? Probably none, so for fuck sake leave the kids away from this idea
This virus, like others, needs people to get infected and to infect others. Even if kids didn't get any symptoms - though they do - they act as a source of infection to adults and other kids.
Currently, the 12+ age group is an important source of the virus being passed around. Not everyone can be vaccinated, soif the healthiest amongst us gets it, it helps to protect them, whilst being negligible to kids due to their strength and resilience. "
Do you have any evidence that the 12+ age group is an important source of the virus being passed around?
|
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"Pfizer are going to be offering children 12+ a single dose with 100% efficacy. This popped up on my phone as a news update earlier.
100% ~ really?  "
I haven't seen the source for this, but what this kind of thing means is that the people studied responded 100% to the intervention. |
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"https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/31/covid-vaccine-pfizer-says-shot-is-100percent-effective-in-kids-ages-12-to-15.html"
No Covid infections in the children who received the Pfizer, is I'm pretty sure what the 100% means. (Although it'd take the paper and people more scientifically literate than me to elaborate further)
I think it's brilliant news |
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"Pfizer are going to be offering children 12+ a single dose with 100% efficacy. This popped up on my phone as a news update earlier.
100% ~ really? "
Children 12plus are pretty unlikely to be infected anyway... With or without a jab. Not sure why we are even discussing kids when only 25% of the population are fully vaccinated. Let's focus on the ones who are more likely to get it and suffer with it.
How many 12 year olds have died of it or have long covid symptoms? |
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"Pfizer are going to be offering children 12+ a single dose with 100% efficacy. This popped up on my phone as a news update earlier.
100% ~ really?
Children 12plus are pretty unlikely to be infected anyway... With or without a jab. Not sure why we are even discussing kids when only 25% of the population are fully vaccinated. Let's focus on the ones who are more likely to get it and suffer with it.
How many 12 year olds have died of it or have long covid symptoms? "
It's a US study and will be coming up at some stage.
Long Covid in children has happened. |
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By *ady LickWoman
over a year ago
Northampton Somewhere |
"Pfizer are going to be offering children 12+ a single dose with 100% efficacy. This popped up on my phone as a news update earlier.
100% ~ really?
Children 12plus are pretty unlikely to be infected anyway... With or without a jab. Not sure why we are even discussing kids when only 25% of the population are fully vaccinated. Let's focus on the ones who are more likely to get it and suffer with it.
How many 12 year olds have died of it or have long covid symptoms? "
I'm pleased it's up for discussion as I have 3 kids I have in the 12+ group. |
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By *dd269 OP Man
over a year ago
Clee |
"Kids should be taken immediately from parents who are happy to vaccinate their kids with untested vaccine, btw what symptoms kids have? Probably none, so for fuck sake leave the kids away from this idea
Kids should be protected from parents who have crazy ideas and don't protect them against diseases that could have life changing effects into adulthood. Once a vaccine has been proved safe, use it for Christ's sake.
I bloody wish that chicken pox vaccine had been invented when I was a kid, instead I got infected with that miserable disease. So what, it's just a kids illness you say? Except it lays dormant in your body forever, and every few years pops up as a crippling outbreak of shingles. Last year it flared across my head and face, agony to touch, and the doctor warned me that if it got into my eyes there was serious danger of blindness. Fortunately I do believe in science, and my body responded well to the (no doubt still experimental in your mind because they've only been around ten years or so) antiviral drugs, so this time I was all okay again in as little as a month. Before antiviral science, shingles could gives years of pain and even kill.
We have no idea of the long term effects of covid on kids, but can be assured they won't be good. Disability, loss of fertility, long term fatigue, respiratory problems, liver damage? All very possible. So don't give your kids a reason to hate you in later life, as soon as there is proven safe treatment available, get your kids protected!"
Well said |
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By *uma69Man
over a year ago
stockport |
"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
If by trial you mean post trial monitoring, then yes. Same as happens with every other drug. So scary. Regular protocol "
The FDA have only given the jabs emergency use authorisation and have said they will not approve them so the same as every other drug regular protocol my arse
He comes another 48 hrs ban for repling to you in forum but they will say I've tried to contact someone who has blocked me really
As I have already pointed out if you have blocked me you shouldn't be able to comment on my posts either end off
Admin go ahead and remove this post as you know you will and also leave her comment up and posted talked about double standards and censoring |
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By *uma69Man
over a year ago
stockport |
"Pfizer are going to be offering children 12+ a single dose with 100% efficacy. This popped up on my phone as a news update earlier.
100% ~ really?
Children 12plus are pretty unlikely to be infected anyway... With or without a jab. Not sure why we are even discussing kids when only 25% of the population are fully vaccinated. Let's focus on the ones who are more likely to get it and suffer with it.
How many 12 year olds have died of it or have long covid symptoms?
I'm pleased it's up for discussion as I have 3 kids I have in the 12+ group."
Do some research away from the main stream before you even consider getting your kids jabbed with this experimental gene therapy which they say is a vaccine but doesn't met the CDCs own definition of a vaccine google it for your self |
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"Pfizer are going to be offering children 12+ a single dose with 100% efficacy. This popped up on my phone as a news update earlier.
100% ~ really?
Children 12plus are pretty unlikely to be infected anyway... With or without a jab. Not sure why we are even discussing kids when only 25% of the population are fully vaccinated. Let's focus on the ones who are more likely to get it and suffer with it.
How many 12 year olds have died of it or have long covid symptoms?
I'm pleased it's up for discussion as I have 3 kids I have in the 12+ group.
Do some research away from the main stream before you even consider getting your kids jabbed with this experimental gene therapy which they say is a vaccine but doesn't met the CDCs own definition of a vaccine google it for your self "
how many times do you need telling it's not gene therapy. It takes very little effort to research this. Although to get my son to have it I did have to research it further.
The covid vaccine has passed all the same tests as a normal vaccine would. Please stop spreading such potentially damaging false information.
My 14 year old will be having the vaccine. Her choice but if she said no I would as her mother try to change her mind. |
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"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
If by trial you mean post trial monitoring, then yes. Same as happens with every other drug. So scary. Regular protocol
The FDA have only given the jabs emergency use authorisation and have said they will not approve them so the same as every other drug regular protocol my arse
He comes another 48 hrs ban for repling to you in forum but they will say I've tried to contact someone who has blocked me really
As I have already pointed out if you have blocked me you shouldn't be able to comment on my posts either end off
Admin go ahead and remove this post as you know you will and also leave her comment up and posted talked about double standards and censoring "
If you read the forum rules properly you will find that what is actually not allowed is using the forum to make personal comment to or about someone that has blocked you, also not allowed is talking about the block. However it is perfectly allowable to make pertinant reply to a posting where relevant to the topic of the thread, correcting misinformation, pointing out errors of fact etc. The forum does not give any freedom to post conspiracy theories and other nonsense unchallenged on the basis of a block between poster and challenger. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"In two or three months time we will have vaccinated all the adults who are able and willing.
When will they start vaccinating the children?
They’re the spreaders - snotty little buggers - who’d ‘ave ‘em?
The return to school would indicate that they aren't spreading this as much... If at all.
For my kids... I'd need a very compelling reason. Such as strong and unambiguous evidence they do spread it. That they are at risk from long term harm if they didn't have it. That it is an effective use of time and resources to vaccinate children. And that it had been thoroughly tested for them. None of which is currently true. We don't need to get carried away with vaccine fever. "
Whoah careful! That there sounds like pro-choice, you might get accused of vaccine hesitancy (or anti-vax). |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
That’s utter tosh
Nope they are absolutely right. These are mRNA injections not officially vaccinations and are in experimental trials until 2023. Also the pharmaceutical companies have negotiated 'non liabity' clauses. Please check for yourself.
I've just checked. They aren't experimental and aren't still in trials.
https://www.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL1N2M70MW
As for getting the non liability clause... so? It makes no difference to us as it means the governments are taking on the responsibility not the company.
The governments have asked them not to make a profit from the vaccine which they agreed to, so even if one person had an adverse reaction and sued them, they would end up at a financial loss.
No company would ever put themselves at that risk, and I can't blame them. "
Actually the Govt removing liability from big pharma DOES affect us. If any of us do develop long term medical conditions as a result of one of these vaccines, the payout is capped at the Govt level. Something around £150k. It basically prevents multi £million payouts. The Govt has decided what your health is worth and £150k for rest of your life (a child could mean 70-80yrs) is not very much at all. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
That’s utter tosh
Nope they are absolutely right. These are mRNA injections not officially vaccinations and are in experimental trials until 2023. Also the pharmaceutical companies have negotiated 'non liabity' clauses. Please check for yourself.
I've just checked. They aren't experimental and aren't still in trials.
https://www.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL1N2M70MW
As for getting the non liability clause... so? It makes no difference to us as it means the governments are taking on the responsibility not the company.
The governments have asked them not to make a profit from the vaccine which they agreed to, so even if one person had an adverse reaction and sued them, they would end up at a financial loss.
No company would ever put themselves at that risk, and I can't blame them.
They will make profit at some point
I mean yeah, businesses make profit.
Welcome to capitalism "
Hmmm that response isn’t quite right though. A state mandated vaccination programme - yes before anyone jumps it ISN’T mandatory here BUT if things like Covid Passports for domestic use come into force that IS mandating by stealth - means there is no consumer choice. It means these companies have a govt licence to print money as the population will have to “consume” their product. There WILL be annual boosters and the HUGE bill will be met by the taxpayers.
On a slight tangent - In the UK this could help to make the NHS “unviable” and further accelerate privatisation. Next step will be USA style health insurance. That will no doubt enforce vaccination as a pre-requisite for health cover - oh and good luck with getting cover for any of those pre-existing conditions!4 |
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"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
That’s utter tosh
Nope they are absolutely right. These are mRNA injections not officially vaccinations and are in experimental trials until 2023. Also the pharmaceutical companies have negotiated 'non liabity' clauses. Please check for yourself.
I've just checked. They aren't experimental and aren't still in trials.
https://www.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL1N2M70MW
As for getting the non liability clause... so? It makes no difference to us as it means the governments are taking on the responsibility not the company.
The governments have asked them not to make a profit from the vaccine which they agreed to, so even if one person had an adverse reaction and sued them, they would end up at a financial loss.
No company would ever put themselves at that risk, and I can't blame them.
They will make profit at some point
I mean yeah, businesses make profit.
Welcome to capitalism
Hmmm that response isn’t quite right though. A state mandated vaccination programme - yes before anyone jumps it ISN’T mandatory here BUT if things like Covid Passports for domestic use come into force that IS mandating by stealth - means there is no consumer choice. It means these companies have a govt licence to print money as the population will have to “consume” their product. There WILL be annual boosters and the HUGE bill will be met by the taxpayers.
On a slight tangent - In the UK this could help to make the NHS “unviable” and further accelerate privatisation. Next step will be USA style health insurance. That will no doubt enforce vaccination as a pre-requisite for health cover - oh and good luck with getting cover for any of those pre-existing conditions!4"
That's a massive leap. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"to think that kids whom this virus barely brushes should be vaccinated with an experimental jab is nothing short of criminal..."
Agree. Long term effects not know either. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
That’s utter tosh
Nope they are absolutely right. These are mRNA injections not officially vaccinations and are in experimental trials until 2023. Also the pharmaceutical companies have negotiated 'non liabity' clauses. Please check for yourself.
I've just checked. They aren't experimental and aren't still in trials.
https://www.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL1N2M70MW
As for getting the non liability clause... so? It makes no difference to us as it means the governments are taking on the responsibility not the company.
The governments have asked them not to make a profit from the vaccine which they agreed to, so even if one person had an adverse reaction and sued them, they would end up at a financial loss.
No company would ever put themselves at that risk, and I can't blame them.
They will make profit at some point
I mean yeah, businesses make profit.
Welcome to capitalism
Hmmm that response isn’t quite right though. A state mandated vaccination programme - yes before anyone jumps it ISN’T mandatory here BUT if things like Covid Passports for domestic use come into force that IS mandating by stealth - means there is no consumer choice. It means these companies have a govt licence to print money as the population will have to “consume” their product. There WILL be annual boosters and the HUGE bill will be met by the taxpayers.
On a slight tangent - In the UK this could help to make the NHS “unviable” and further accelerate privatisation. Next step will be USA style health insurance. That will no doubt enforce vaccination as a pre-requisite for health cover - oh and good luck with getting cover for any of those pre-existing conditions!4
That's a massive leap."
Seriously it isn’t.
We could have a change of Govt that might stop it but if you look into our current set of ministers (inc Hancock) you will see what their views are (it’s all about money and they can see bank). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"to think that kids whom this virus barely brushes should be vaccinated with an experimental jab is nothing short of criminal...
Agree. Long term effects not know either. "
Agreed, no injection for me or my children. |
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"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
That’s utter tosh
Nope they are absolutely right. These are mRNA injections not officially vaccinations and are in experimental trials until 2023. Also the pharmaceutical companies have negotiated 'non liabity' clauses. Please check for yourself.
I've just checked. They aren't experimental and aren't still in trials.
https://www.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL1N2M70MW
As for getting the non liability clause... so? It makes no difference to us as it means the governments are taking on the responsibility not the company.
The governments have asked them not to make a profit from the vaccine which they agreed to, so even if one person had an adverse reaction and sued them, they would end up at a financial loss.
No company would ever put themselves at that risk, and I can't blame them.
They will make profit at some point
I mean yeah, businesses make profit.
Welcome to capitalism
Hmmm that response isn’t quite right though. A state mandated vaccination programme - yes before anyone jumps it ISN’T mandatory here BUT if things like Covid Passports for domestic use come into force that IS mandating by stealth - means there is no consumer choice. It means these companies have a govt licence to print money as the population will have to “consume” their product. There WILL be annual boosters and the HUGE bill will be met by the taxpayers.
On a slight tangent - In the UK this could help to make the NHS “unviable” and further accelerate privatisation. Next step will be USA style health insurance. That will no doubt enforce vaccination as a pre-requisite for health cover - oh and good luck with getting cover for any of those pre-existing conditions!4
That's a massive leap.
Seriously it isn’t.
We could have a change of Govt that might stop it but if you look into our current set of ministers (inc Hancock) you will see what their views are (it’s all about money and they can see bank)."
I agree that that's what the government wants.
I don't see how vaccine payouts working as they've always worked, the business models of the companies that supply the NHS working as they've always worked, a new vaccine, and an uncertain future re a new virus leads to the privatisation of the NHS.
I do see why you're concerned, but you're gathering disparate concerns and going somewhere that's unwarranted. Not everything is a plot. |
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"to think that kids whom this virus barely brushes should be vaccinated with an experimental jab is nothing short of criminal...
Agree. Long term effects not know either. "
The long term effects of not using vaccines are well known though... |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
That’s utter tosh
Nope they are absolutely right. These are mRNA injections not officially vaccinations and are in experimental trials until 2023. Also the pharmaceutical companies have negotiated 'non liabity' clauses. Please check for yourself.
I've just checked. They aren't experimental and aren't still in trials.
https://www.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL1N2M70MW
As for getting the non liability clause... so? It makes no difference to us as it means the governments are taking on the responsibility not the company.
The governments have asked them not to make a profit from the vaccine which they agreed to, so even if one person had an adverse reaction and sued them, they would end up at a financial loss.
No company would ever put themselves at that risk, and I can't blame them.
They will make profit at some point
I mean yeah, businesses make profit.
Welcome to capitalism
Hmmm that response isn’t quite right though. A state mandated vaccination programme - yes before anyone jumps it ISN’T mandatory here BUT if things like Covid Passports for domestic use come into force that IS mandating by stealth - means there is no consumer choice. It means these companies have a govt licence to print money as the population will have to “consume” their product. There WILL be annual boosters and the HUGE bill will be met by the taxpayers.
On a slight tangent - In the UK this could help to make the NHS “unviable” and further accelerate privatisation. Next step will be USA style health insurance. That will no doubt enforce vaccination as a pre-requisite for health cover - oh and good luck with getting cover for any of those pre-existing conditions!4
That's a massive leap.
Seriously it isn’t.
We could have a change of Govt that might stop it but if you look into our current set of ministers (inc Hancock) you will see what their views are (it’s all about money and they can see bank).
I agree that that's what the government wants.
I don't see how vaccine payouts working as they've always worked, the business models of the companies that supply the NHS working as they've always worked, a new vaccine, and an uncertain future re a new virus leads to the privatisation of the NHS.
I do see why you're concerned, but you're gathering disparate concerns and going somewhere that's unwarranted. Not everything is a plot."
I didn’t say it was a plot. That would be crazy tinfoil hat time. It would require global cooperation and collaboration on a scale that was unprecedented (and I doubt 99% of the countries of the world care much about our NHS either way).
My point (perhaps badly mad) is that the opportunists running the UK will see a chance for further leverage to achieve their goals.
In the same way that both Brexit and the Covid emergency have provided opportunities to push through legislation (or as per their modus operandi piggyback seemingly innocuous clauses into disparate pieces of legislation to create a legal framework that provides sufficient latitude for them to further achieve their goals). |
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"Who ever gets the jab is in a clinical trail until 2023 why do you think they ask if they can contact for 2 years go and look yourself it's on emergency use only so not approved or licensed
That’s utter tosh
Nope they are absolutely right. These are mRNA injections not officially vaccinations and are in experimental trials until 2023. Also the pharmaceutical companies have negotiated 'non liabity' clauses. Please check for yourself.
I've just checked. They aren't experimental and aren't still in trials.
https://www.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL1N2M70MW
As for getting the non liability clause... so? It makes no difference to us as it means the governments are taking on the responsibility not the company.
The governments have asked them not to make a profit from the vaccine which they agreed to, so even if one person had an adverse reaction and sued them, they would end up at a financial loss.
No company would ever put themselves at that risk, and I can't blame them.
They will make profit at some point
I mean yeah, businesses make profit.
Welcome to capitalism
Hmmm that response isn’t quite right though. A state mandated vaccination programme - yes before anyone jumps it ISN’T mandatory here BUT if things like Covid Passports for domestic use come into force that IS mandating by stealth - means there is no consumer choice. It means these companies have a govt licence to print money as the population will have to “consume” their product. There WILL be annual boosters and the HUGE bill will be met by the taxpayers.
On a slight tangent - In the UK this could help to make the NHS “unviable” and further accelerate privatisation. Next step will be USA style health insurance. That will no doubt enforce vaccination as a pre-requisite for health cover - oh and good luck with getting cover for any of those pre-existing conditions!4
That's a massive leap.
Seriously it isn’t.
We could have a change of Govt that might stop it but if you look into our current set of ministers (inc Hancock) you will see what their views are (it’s all about money and they can see bank).
I agree that that's what the government wants.
I don't see how vaccine payouts working as they've always worked, the business models of the companies that supply the NHS working as they've always worked, a new vaccine, and an uncertain future re a new virus leads to the privatisation of the NHS.
I do see why you're concerned, but you're gathering disparate concerns and going somewhere that's unwarranted. Not everything is a plot.
I didn’t say it was a plot. That would be crazy tinfoil hat time. It would require global cooperation and collaboration on a scale that was unprecedented (and I doubt 99% of the countries of the world care much about our NHS either way).
My point (perhaps badly mad) is that the opportunists running the UK will see a chance for further leverage to achieve their goals.
In the same way that both Brexit and the Covid emergency have provided opportunities to push through legislation (or as per their modus operandi piggyback seemingly innocuous clauses into disparate pieces of legislation to create a legal framework that provides sufficient latitude for them to further achieve their goals). "
Ok, that's fair. I do know that opportunists will use moments like these, and I agree are doing so.
But on the other hand - capitalism is the model underpinning pharmaceuticals and therefore the NHS does rely on it. And vaccine passports are a public health measure - one which has been taken instead of mandating (which is possible in a democratic society and permissible under the human rights laws we live under).
I'm very worried about this government, but I don't think attacking everything serves a purpose. I follow people like the Good Law Project - going after corruption. I personally think vaccine passports serve a valid purpose (providing spaces where those who can't be vaccinated can be safe in public again) - and the international bit is out of our hands at any rate. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
@_naswingdress I too follow the Good Law Project and yes they doing great work.
Not sure where you get the “attack everything” from? I am no fan of this Govt but credit where it is due - the vaccination programme (and early purchase) has worked well. Little else has. Sadly I remain sceptical on altruistic motivation as I suspect Ministers/Cronies/Party donors are making money from it.
Of course NHS relies on big pharma and of course they need to make profits BUT have you seen the comparison of drug prices between UK and USA? The NHS have a price cap that can be 10 times lower and THAT was a big bone of contention for Trump. |
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"@_naswingdress I too follow the Good Law Project and yes they doing great work.
Not sure where you get the “attack everything” from? I am no fan of this Govt but credit where it is due - the vaccination programme (and early purchase) has worked well. Little else has. Sadly I remain sceptical on altruistic motivation as I suspect Ministers/Cronies/Party donors are making money from it.
Of course NHS relies on big pharma and of course they need to make profits BUT have you seen the comparison of drug prices between UK and USA? The NHS have a price cap that can be 10 times lower and THAT was a big bone of contention for Trump."
Attack everything = assuming that public health measures are for nefarious purposes, sort of thing.
I do know about the price differences and I agree. I think we mostly agree on the government - I just think you're reaching. I think the public health measures are a good thing done by bad people. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
Not sure why I am reaching in your view but respect your opinion. As for me:
1) In the UK Executive we have Ministers who are supportive of NHS privatisation who have received “donations” from various lobby groups that are very pro-private healthcare and privatisation of NHS.
2) The Covid emergency powers have provided an opportunity for same Executive to bypass usual procurement scrutiny resulting in the largest transfer of state assets (tax monies) into private hands (of their donors, cronies and family members) in history.
3) The vaccine programme further provides opportunities to monetise surrounding processes as well as massively enhance the share price (ergo dividends) of big pharma (note Sunak, for example, refused to disclose whether he holds shares in any of the vaccine producers).
4) Price reduction/freezes on vaccine price is only temporary. The big pay day is down the line through the booster programme. A cost that the NHS did not have to previously cover.
Not much reaching there!
Always follow the money. Always! |
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"Not sure why I am reaching in your view but respect your opinion. As for me:
1) In the UK Executive we have Ministers who are supportive of NHS privatisation who have received “donations” from various lobby groups that are very pro-private healthcare and privatisation of NHS.
2) The Covid emergency powers have provided an opportunity for same Executive to bypass usual procurement scrutiny resulting in the largest transfer of state assets (tax monies) into private hands (of their donors, cronies and family members) in history.
3) The vaccine programme further provides opportunities to monetise surrounding processes as well as massively enhance the share price (ergo dividends) of big pharma (note Sunak, for example, refused to disclose whether he holds shares in any of the vaccine producers).
4) Price reduction/freezes on vaccine price is only temporary. The big pay day is down the line through the booster programme. A cost that the NHS did not have to previously cover.
Not much reaching there!
Always follow the money. Always! "
I largely agree - but there's a new medical need, and therefore it needs to be met. While I worry about our government, what are we supposed to do? Be outliers by not treating it or not complying with emerging norms around controlling Covid?
Money is involved because we live under capitalism. While I'd prefer that it not be so grubby, I'm not sure what the solution would be. |
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"Not sure why I am reaching in your view but respect your opinion. As for me:
1) In the UK Executive we have Ministers who are supportive of NHS privatisation who have received “donations” from various lobby groups that are very pro-private healthcare and privatisation of NHS.
2) The Covid emergency powers have provided an opportunity for same Executive to bypass usual procurement scrutiny resulting in the largest transfer of state assets (tax monies) into private hands (of their donors, cronies and family members) in history.
3) The vaccine programme further provides opportunities to monetise surrounding processes as well as massively enhance the share price (ergo dividends) of big pharma (note Sunak, for example, refused to disclose whether he holds shares in any of the vaccine producers).
4) Price reduction/freezes on vaccine price is only temporary. The big pay day is down the line through the booster programme. A cost that the NHS did not have to previously cover.
Not much reaching there!
Always follow the money. Always! "
Re 1...i don't understand. Bits of the NHS are an absolute car crash. The NHS gets awaybwith god awful service, quality because it is the NHS. "Awww I don't want to be a nuisance, they are doing their best". Well often times they are doing very far from their best. Now that's not to discount the fantastic things that they do too. But in an organisation as huge and far reaching as brand NHS it is not surprising that there are extremes. So for me.. What's wrong with finding the best way to deliver consistently good service? And what's wrong with pointing out that it has deficiencies as it currently exists?
Lastly and not necessarily to do with the NHS but as a concept... what's wrong with people making a money by delivering needed products or services? |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
@_naswingdress and @backformore
I am not for one moment anti-capitalist. I am personally pretty successful/wealthy compared to maybe 95% of people in the UK thanks to capitalism. However, I strongly believe there are some aspects of a caring and supportive society that should be state provided and healthcare is one of those.
To quote Chris Hedges:
“Capitalists should never be allowed near a healthcare system.
They hold sick children hostage as they force parents to bankrupt themselves in the desperate scramble to pay for medical care.
The sick do not have a choice. Medical care is not a consumable good.
We can choose to buy a used or new car, shop at a boutique or thrift store, but there is no choice between between illness and health.”
Just do some research into the cost of healthcare in the USA. People don’t call ambulances because they will be charged $2000 and forget going to A&E. Just one example. People remortgage or sell homes to pay for cancer treatment because “what’s wrong with making a profit”
Nobody thinks the NHS is perfect but it is a damn sight better than alternative for the vast majority or ordinary people.
Profit has no place in healthcare. Efficiency of course does - but scratch the surface of various NHS branded privately provided services and you will see how they are fleeced already “to make some profit”. Eg. Charged £300 to change a light bulb by outsourced contractor rather than employ a facilities mgr! |
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I agree with you but - how else do we research and manufacture the resources, medicines, etc, that we need?
I think the NHS is a wonderful thing, and long may it continue, adequately funded. But it exists within capitalism. That's just the reality of it. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
I *think* we are agreeing. Of course pharma need to make *some* profit from these vaccines but based on the “mark up” on most other medicines/drugs etc the profit margins end up being obscene and when there is SO much money to be made I DO question the ethics and at very least believe they should be very carefully monitored. |
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"I *think* we are agreeing. Of course pharma need to make *some* profit from these vaccines but based on the “mark up” on most other medicines/drugs etc the profit margins end up being obscene and when there is SO much money to be made I DO question the ethics and at very least believe they should be very carefully monitored."
I think so. I suspect part of it is recouping lost expenses on trials that don't work out.
Liberalisation versus regulation is a tricky business at the best of times, particularly when we throw health into the equation. |
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"@_naswingdress and @backformore
I am not for one moment anti-capitalist. I am personally pretty successful/wealthy compared to maybe 95% of people in the UK thanks to capitalism. However, I strongly believe there are some aspects of a caring and supportive society that should be state provided and healthcare is one of those.
To quote Chris Hedges:
“Capitalists should never be allowed near a healthcare system.
They hold sick children hostage as they force parents to bankrupt themselves in the desperate scramble to pay for medical care.
The sick do not have a choice. Medical care is not a consumable good.
We can choose to buy a used or new car, shop at a boutique or thrift store, but there is no choice between between illness and health.”
Just do some research into the cost of healthcare in the USA. People don’t call ambulances because they will be charged $2000 and forget going to A&E. Just one example. People remortgage or sell homes to pay for cancer treatment because “what’s wrong with making a profit”
Nobody thinks the NHS is perfect but it is a damn sight better than alternative for the vast majority or ordinary people.
Profit has no place in healthcare. Efficiency of course does - but scratch the surface of various NHS branded privately provided services and you will see how they are fleeced already “to make some profit”. Eg. Charged £300 to change a light bulb by outsourced contractor rather than employ a facilities mgr!"
If someone has an outsourcing agreement that permits gross profiteering through the life of said agreement then that is down to the lack of adequate management of the agreement. We worship at the alter of the "free" NHS when most give little thought to how it's funded and ever question the quality of what they receive... Or don't receive.. Because for decades we have been fed a diet of messages of.... Its shit because of the tories underfunding.... Or we can't do better because of the underfunding...or don't expect miracles as we are underfunded...Or we can't clean properly because... (why?) or we can't wash hands between touching patients because...the entire culture is unhealthy.. We tolerate below average because (why?). If there's nobody in the nhs who can manage an outsourcing partner then recruit them or train them.
The comparison doesn't alway's need to be with the extremes of some of the health provision in America. Look at others that achieve good outcomes too.
The nhs as originally conceived when our population was 50m, when employment was full, when average life expectancy was 65 or less and with the British attitude of not being prepared to pay a fair amount for anything is not sustainable. So we need to look at ways of providing a service that keeps us healthy and happy and provides care for those that need it when and where they need it. That costs more than we are apparently prepared to pay.
By any measure of health care we are not performing well. So I would suggest we need to do something differently. Or we will always achieve the same outcome. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"I *think* we are agreeing. Of course pharma need to make *some* profit from these vaccines but based on the “mark up” on most other medicines/drugs etc the profit margins end up being obscene and when there is SO much money to be made I DO question the ethics and at very least believe they should be very carefully monitored.
I think so. I suspect part of it is recouping lost expenses on trials that don't work out.
Liberalisation versus regulation is a tricky business at the best of times, particularly when we throw health into the equation."
.
Yep true. In THIS case (Covid vaccines) Govts have covered the R&D costs (directly I think but certainly indirectly by pre-ordering millions of doses). In addition the pseudo mandation and expected need for boosters means their income stream is guaranteed. |
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"I *think* we are agreeing. Of course pharma need to make *some* profit from these vaccines but based on the “mark up” on most other medicines/drugs etc the profit margins end up being obscene and when there is SO much money to be made I DO question the ethics and at very least believe they should be very carefully monitored.
I think so. I suspect part of it is recouping lost expenses on trials that don't work out.
Liberalisation versus regulation is a tricky business at the best of times, particularly when we throw health into the equation..
Yep true. In THIS case (Covid vaccines) Govts have covered the R&D costs (directly I think but certainly indirectly by pre-ordering millions of doses). In addition the pseudo mandation and expected need for boosters means their income stream is guaranteed."
In this case, yes (although I don't agree with your designation of "pseudo mandation").
The booster thing is a changing situation. Can but see what happens. |
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"I *think* we are agreeing. Of course pharma need to make *some* profit from these vaccines but based on the “mark up” on most other medicines/drugs etc the profit margins end up being obscene and when there is SO much money to be made I DO question the ethics and at very least believe they should be very carefully monitored."
100% agree.
Then is it not about establishing a framework and improving the selection process and management of delivery partners? And writing better contracts. |
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"I *think* we are agreeing. Of course pharma need to make *some* profit from these vaccines but based on the “mark up” on most other medicines/drugs etc the profit margins end up being obscene and when there is SO much money to be made I DO question the ethics and at very least believe they should be very carefully monitored.
100% agree.
Then is it not about establishing a framework and improving the selection process and management of delivery partners? And writing better contracts."
And furthermore... Take it away from party politics completely....have a x party nhs committee or whatever to do what is best. |
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"I *think* we are agreeing. Of course pharma need to make *some* profit from these vaccines but based on the “mark up” on most other medicines/drugs etc the profit margins end up being obscene and when there is SO much money to be made I DO question the ethics and at very least believe they should be very carefully monitored.
100% agree.
Then is it not about establishing a framework and improving the selection process and management of delivery partners? And writing better contracts."
Open tender process, or at least open to a truly independent oversight body. I'd start there. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"I *think* we are agreeing. Of course pharma need to make *some* profit from these vaccines but based on the “mark up” on most other medicines/drugs etc the profit margins end up being obscene and when there is SO much money to be made I DO question the ethics and at very least believe they should be very carefully monitored.
100% agree.
Then is it not about establishing a framework and improving the selection process and management of delivery partners? And writing better contracts.
Open tender process, or at least open to a truly independent oversight body. I'd start there."
Tendering certainly does need tightening up with increased commercial accountability.
One of the biggest problems (in this space) for the public sector is that they do not pay enough to be able to always attract the best (ie commercial procurement and contract lawyers etc). The big companies that bid for contracts have armies of high paid commercial staff who can always ensure contracts are stacked in their favour.
However, public sector procurement IS supposed to be an open tendering process but the govt used Covid emergency powers to circumvent this and look what has happened! |
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"I *think* we are agreeing. Of course pharma need to make *some* profit from these vaccines but based on the “mark up” on most other medicines/drugs etc the profit margins end up being obscene and when there is SO much money to be made I DO question the ethics and at very least believe they should be very carefully monitored.
100% agree.
Then is it not about establishing a framework and improving the selection process and management of delivery partners? And writing better contracts.
Open tender process, or at least open to a truly independent oversight body. I'd start there.
Tendering certainly does need tightening up with increased commercial accountability.
One of the biggest problems (in this space) for the public sector is that they do not pay enough to be able to always attract the best (ie commercial procurement and contract lawyers etc). The big companies that bid for contracts have armies of high paid commercial staff who can always ensure contracts are stacked in their favour.
However, public sector procurement IS supposed to be an open tendering process but the govt used Covid emergency powers to circumvent this and look what has happened!"
Absolutely |
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"I agree with dr campbell, who is abit worried about it, of how their reaction would be."
Does he have published research evidence?
The research currently is looking at the safety and efficacy of the vaccines in these younger people, which is appropriate |
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By *dd269 OP Man
over a year ago
Clee |
Since my original post, I’ve been targeted by an anti-vaxxer troll who DMs me daily. My original post was made because I lost my cousin to covid. His family live in a crowded part of Liverpool, and the virus went through the family like a dose of salts there and took out all the old people before they were vaccinated. |
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"Since my original post, I’ve been targeted by an anti-vaxxer troll who DMs me daily. My original post was made because I lost my cousin to covid. His family live in a crowded part of Liverpool, and the virus went through the family like a dose of salts there and took out all the old people before they were vaccinated."
I'm sorry to hear that. Can't you report them or doesnt that work.? |
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By *dd269 OP Man
over a year ago
Clee |
"Could you block them ?"
Yes I suppose I could block them if I felt at all threatened or intimidated. But I don’t, and his language is still very mild, and so far he’s alone.
I’ve never used a block before, and I won’t start now. |
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"Since my original post, I’ve been targeted by an anti-vaxxer troll who DMs me daily. My original post was made because I lost my cousin to covid. His family live in a crowded part of Liverpool, and the virus went through the family like a dose of salts there and took out all the old people before they were vaccinated."
I'm sorry for your loss. |
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