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What's the point
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"Vaccine doesn't stop you having and spreading covid" Watch this space, data coming in suggesting otherwise. (Also, almost none of the vaccines we have are tested for that, it's a false comparison point) | |||
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"In having a vaccine passport if we still have to provide a negative covid test? Or are some countries letting people in on a vaccine passport alone? " Being vaccinated gives you protection from serious illness, and does give a certain amount of protection in carrying the virus but transmission can still occur especially with new and more dangerous variants so a negative test might still be required from countries on entry. It is only when all nations have a successful vaccine programme will things bet back to normal | |||
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"Vaccine doesn't stop you having and spreading covid" I'm fairly sure that current thinking is now changed and that certainly the first jab does a lot to stop it.. We will see on the coming weeks once the papers come out I guess.. | |||
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"What passport it’s a piece of paper saying you have had jab and date for second and no it doesn’t stop you catching it or spreading it it was designed to lower symptoms bit like flu jab" I'm guessing that it would be an app, for added security | |||
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"Vaccine passports to go into a restaurant, theatre etc will never happen. They are unworkable and more importantly they would be discriminatory. If challenged in a court of law no judge would rule it as lawful. The only vaccine proof that could be required is to enter another country which will definitely happen but totally understandble." The entire point of vaccine passports is to discriminate. Given vaccine mandates are permissible under some circumstances under ECHR jurisprudence, I'm quite certain that lesser interference would be permitted. I'm entirely in favour of protecting those who cannot be vaccinated, or for whom the vaccine does not afford protection, from the donwanna Bill Gates I did my research sheeple brigade. | |||
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"In having a vaccine passport if we still have to provide a negative covid test? Or are some countries letting people in on a vaccine passport alone? " I think its being made up on the hoof. And I'm not saying that to take the pee. Its a novel situation for the globe to manage. So to an extent we have to feel our way through this. The obvious idea being to control movements so future spread is controlled and minimised. Makes sense. As for practical application. I see our smart phones / devices being used a lot more to prove validations/ bona fides. | |||
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"In having a vaccine passport if we still have to provide a negative covid test? Or are some countries letting people in on a vaccine passport alone? I think its being made up on the hoof. And I'm not saying that to take the pee. Its a novel situation for the globe to manage. So to an extent we have to feel our way through this. The obvious idea being to control movements so future spread is controlled and minimised. Makes sense. As for practical application. I see our smart phones / devices being used a lot more to prove validations/ bona fides. " Furthermore I think if people want their freedoms, they are going to have to submit to more controls in ours and other countries. And there's huge risk of abuse in that...but again... Its nothing that Google and book face and amazon and Air time providers haven't been doing for 10 or more years. | |||
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"In having a vaccine passport if we still have to provide a negative covid test? Or are some countries letting people in on a vaccine passport alone? I think its being made up on the hoof. And I'm not saying that to take the pee. Its a novel situation for the globe to manage. So to an extent we have to feel our way through this. The obvious idea being to control movements so future spread is controlled and minimised. Makes sense. As for practical application. I see our smart phones / devices being used a lot more to prove validations/ bona fides. " Absolutely. When novel situations arise, things take time to develop and normalise. Most of us are old enough to remember the growing pains of the early internet (in public use), for example. Legally, many jurisdictions are still grappling with the changes in the environment and how to deal with new situations. It's unsurprising that this is all in early development. | |||
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"In having a vaccine passport if we still have to provide a negative covid test? Or are some countries letting people in on a vaccine passport alone? I think its being made up on the hoof. And I'm not saying that to take the pee. Its a novel situation for the globe to manage. So to an extent we have to feel our way through this. The obvious idea being to control movements so future spread is controlled and minimised. Makes sense. As for practical application. I see our smart phones / devices being used a lot more to prove validations/ bona fides. Furthermore I think if people want their freedoms, they are going to have to submit to more controls in ours and other countries. And there's huge risk of abuse in that...but again... Its nothing that Google and book face and amazon and Air time providers haven't been doing for 10 or more years. " Yup, agreed. Individual liberty depends on communal responsibility. We ignore this at cost to ourselves and everyone else. | |||
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"Vaccine doesn't stop you having and spreading covid I'm fairly sure that current thinking is now changed and that certainly the first jab does a lot to stop it.. We will see on the coming weeks once the papers come out I guess.. " yes this is right  I find it amazing why some people don't seem to have kept up-to-date with the current facts about the vaccines  | |||
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"In having a vaccine passport if we still have to provide a negative covid test? Or are some countries letting people in on a vaccine passport alone? " the vaccine passport proposed has noting to do with travel yet, it is to merely access services like pubs that you could before covid happened, its a huge opening door into removing all rights, liberties and freedoms because it then allows government to deem what's 'safe and best' for the public without consultation and above all personal circumstances. I have no issue with a stamp in your passport saying you've been vax'd to travel to low vax'd countries and a test upon return. travel abroad with the exception of seeking asylum is a luxury and far to much of it done tbh. in terms of the vaccine, if folk want to take it that's fine, the vaccine protects YOU from serious illness, it helps your body to cope with any new infections and a bare basis for variant identification allowing for lesser symptoms and energy required to fight it. there has been some evidence to suggest it lowers transmission, but not entirely, as with everything there is always risk and nothing is 100% other than being alive or dead, which from corona has a 1% chance. it does not protect not someone else who hasn't had it so why would you need to worry or care over their choice or inability to have the vaccine....you know that includes folk who are immune suppressed due to transplants etc. you will literally end up with a fractioned society like we did with 'white' and 'coloured' bars, workplaces and access to services once private businesses start this, considering most gov sectors are now outsourced they with follow, literally no access anywhere. just look to African countries to see what that does. except this will become vax'd bars vs non vax'd, it has happened so many times o=in history yet we still haven't learned this lesson. Division is not the answer...it only leads down one road to civil unrest and wars. and before anyone start with the 'well you shouldn't be given treatment for refusing a vaccine, May I remind you this body is THE only vessel with you for life, if it goes so do you therefore what you put in it, how you treat it and care for it is down to personal choice. There are many whom made their conditions worse if not fatal by being victims of bad personal choice on the body front that. Age, weight and other medical conditions (mostly alzimers & dementia) were the largest factors. All 3 also have affected mindsets which if you study the brain you'll know willpower is mighty as is placebo. Maybe we should all take the personal choice to care for these vessels for life and to understand that there are serious consequences if you don't. How many were petrified due to the level of media coverage on stats we DO NOT usually hear on a daily basis....thousands have always died daily in UK, that grows as the population grows and ages, we just didn't have it in our faces hourly. for instance over this whole pandemic we know lots of people have died and these are a family member to someone (that is unavoidable) yet 0.15% of population is a lot easier on the mind that 100k. Truth is we'll never know how much the fear affected peoples ability to fight off the virus. (there's proof of this in cancer patients and other serious illness, a determination to defy death). the other is how we perceive death itself that has changed over the past century with spiritual beliefs falling from peoples lives. There's a lot to be said psychology wise as to how this narrative has been told over a virus with over 99% survival rate. This virus and how people/govs etc responded has certainly evoked the biggest psychological and social experiment in human history and we are all a part of it, like it or not. yeah my brains wired this morn soz. basically society is far to complex and consequences to great to allow it into society. | |||
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" I'm guessing that it would be an app, for added security " That presupposes that everyone is a smartphone user and, if so,comfortable with 'Brave New World' type apps. Who knows what procedures some QR codes could set in motion? There is an awful lot for people to take on trust. | |||
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"In having a vaccine passport if we still have to provide a negative covid test? Or are some countries letting people in on a vaccine passport alone? I think its being made up on the hoof. And I'm not saying that to take the pee. Its a novel situation for the globe to manage. So to an extent we have to feel our way through this. The obvious idea being to control movements so future spread is controlled and minimised. Makes sense. As for practical application. I see our smart phones / devices being used a lot more to prove validations/ bona fides. Furthermore I think if people want their freedoms, they are going to have to submit to more controls in ours and other countries. And there's huge risk of abuse in that...but again... Its nothing that Google and book face and amazon and Air time providers haven't been doing for 10 or more years. " Plus banks and retailers. Use your card in a shop then that retailer, the retailers bank and your bank know where you have been. CCTV is everywhere. Average speed cameras log every vehicle. | |||
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"Vaccine doesn't stop you having and spreading covid I'm fairly sure that current thinking is now changed and that certainly the first jab does a lot to stop it.. We will see on the coming weeks once the papers come out I guess.. yes this is right I find it amazing why some people don't seem to have kept up-to-date with the current facts about the vaccines "On the one hand, it's not that surprising. On the other hand, I wonder if it's a new anti vax talking point. "It doesn't do what it's not measured to do, therefore it's useless! Toxins infertility VAERS mercury freedom blah blah blah sheeple" | |||
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" I'm guessing that it would be an app, for added security That presupposes that everyone is a smartphone user and, if so,comfortable with 'Brave New World' type apps. Who knows what procedures some QR codes could set in motion? There is an awful lot for people to take on trust." i have smart phone but very basic permissions allowed, vpn, no qr code reader & ain't downloading anything that tracks me because I have a beasty stalker ex who is a hacking mad man. no thanks...I'd rather he couldn't find me thanks, he's far more likely to kill me than covid is. Gov leaks waaay too many details to 3rd parties already I do not need my daily whereabouts know...and no police are useless. there's one example of the opposite of what most people think is a safe thing to do. | |||
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" I'm guessing that it would be an app, for added security That presupposes that everyone is a smartphone user and, if so,comfortable with 'Brave New World' type apps. Who knows what procedures some QR codes could set in motion? There is an awful lot for people to take on trust." Everyone used to use horse and cart but its less popular these days. I mentioned elsewhere that my dad is not into technology but there comes a point where one does have to adapt or be left behind. If you dont adopt this principle then you would still believe that women are inferior to men, white people are better than other people, no one should be other than heterosexual, the list is endless. If the UK was like China or other one party dictatorship states then yes a real reason to worry about QR tech. Here (UK) there is an election every 5 years and there is not a massive state police force in operation to crack down on every miscreant. | |||
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" I'm guessing that it would be an app, for added security That presupposes that everyone is a smartphone user and, if so,comfortable with 'Brave New World' type apps. Who knows what procedures some QR codes could set in motion? There is an awful lot for people to take on trust. Everyone used to use horse and cart but its less popular these days. I mentioned elsewhere that my dad is not into technology but there comes a point where one does have to adapt or be left behind. If you dont adopt this principle then you would still believe that women are inferior to men, white people are better than other people, no one should be other than heterosexual, the list is endless. If the UK was like China or other one party dictatorship states then yes a real reason to worry about QR tech. Here (UK) there is an election every 5 years and there is not a massive state police force in operation to crack down on every miscreant." It's not a huge ask to build in safeguarding with new technology. And it's ridiculous to say we can't develop new technology because we don't know what bad things would happen. People were opposed to women on trains because high speeds might cause their uterii to come out. It's the same argument. | |||
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" I'm guessing that it would be an app, for added security That presupposes that everyone is a smartphone user and, if so,comfortable with 'Brave New World' type apps. Who knows what procedures some QR codes could set in motion? There is an awful lot for people to take on trust. Everyone used to use horse and cart but its less popular these days. I mentioned elsewhere that my dad is not into technology but there comes a point where one does have to adapt or be left behind. If you dont adopt this principle then you would still believe that women are inferior to men, white people are better than other people, no one should be other than heterosexual, the list is endless. If the UK was like China or other one party dictatorship states then yes a real reason to worry about QR tech. Here (UK) there is an election every 5 years and there is not a massive state police force in operation to crack down on every miscreant. It's not a huge ask to build in safeguarding with new technology. And it's ridiculous to say we can't develop new technology because we don't know what bad things would happen. People were opposed to women on trains because high speeds might cause their uterii to come out. It's the same argument." When you hear the term “the good old days” i think to myself that its good that people can think that way because if you analyse it the good old days generally were shit. | |||
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" I'm guessing that it would be an app, for added security That presupposes that everyone is a smartphone user and, if so,comfortable with 'Brave New World' type apps. Who knows what procedures some QR codes could set in motion? There is an awful lot for people to take on trust. Everyone used to use horse and cart but its less popular these days. I mentioned elsewhere that my dad is not into technology but there comes a point where one does have to adapt or be left behind. If you dont adopt this principle then you would still believe that women are inferior to men, white people are better than other people, no one should be other than heterosexual, the list is endless. If the UK was like China or other one party dictatorship states then yes a real reason to worry about QR tech. Here (UK) there is an election every 5 years and there is not a massive state police force in operation to crack down on every miscreant. It's not a huge ask to build in safeguarding with new technology. And it's ridiculous to say we can't develop new technology because we don't know what bad things would happen. People were opposed to women on trains because high speeds might cause their uterii to come out. It's the same argument. When you hear the term “the good old days” i think to myself that its good that people can think that way because if you analyse it the good old days generally were shit." Nostalgia ain't what it used to be, eh? | |||
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"Not all countries are using the same vaccines though, what happens when China or Russia demand that you have their vaccine in order to enter as they don't trust ours, sticking to tests to enter is logistically simpler and have the vaccine for your own health and probably travel insurance purposes " Where trial data exists, I'm sure that that can be used to validate vaccines from other countries. (The Russian vaccine looks good as far as I can remember) Where it doesn't - well, I'm glad that's not my job 
My guess would be that testing, quarantine and vaccination will be a short term solution (in terms of geopolitics, though, short term might still be years). I can imagine vaccination being a medium term requirement. | |||
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"Vaccine doesn't stop you having and spreading covid I'm fairly sure that current thinking is now changed and that certainly the first jab does a lot to stop it.. We will see on the coming weeks once the papers come out I guess.. yes this is right I find it amazing why some people don't seem to have kept up-to-date with the current facts about the vaccines "It's crazy isnt the amount of fab posters still saying the vaccines don't prevent transmission is quite frankly shocking. Do they live in caves seriously?? Or are they holding on that out dated statement as their excuse to to not get vaccinated still? KJ | |||
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"Vaccine doesn't stop you having and spreading covid I'm fairly sure that current thinking is now changed and that certainly the first jab does a lot to stop it.. We will see on the coming weeks once the papers come out I guess.. yes this is right I find it amazing why some people don't seem to have kept up-to-date with the current facts about the vaccines
It's crazy isnt the amount of fab posters still saying the vaccines don't prevent transmission is quite frankly shocking. Do they live in caves seriously??
Or are they holding on that out dated statement as their excuse to to not get vaccinated still?
KJ"I mean, the same people talk about thalidomide. A bad thing happened with medicine once therefore (insert bullshit here). Buildings occasionally collapse, cars occasionally blow up. Walk everywhere and sleep outside, it's the only way. | |||
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"Vaccine doesn't stop you having and spreading covid I'm fairly sure that current thinking is now changed and that certainly the first jab does a lot to stop it.. We will see on the coming weeks once the papers come out I guess.. yes this is right I find it amazing why some people don't seem to have kept up-to-date with the current facts about the vaccines
It's crazy isnt the amount of fab posters still saying the vaccines don't prevent transmission is quite frankly shocking. Do they live in caves seriously??
Or are they holding on that out dated statement as their excuse to to not get vaccinated still?
KJ
I mean, the same people talk about thalidomide. A bad thing happened with medicine once therefore (insert bullshit here).
Buildings occasionally collapse, cars occasionally blow up. Walk everywhere and sleep outside, it's the only way." Crazy isn't it!
I had to explain to one of these types who saw the thalidomide warnings against getting a vaccine on Facebook that thalidomide was not an actual vaccine just a drug use for a number of things just like all the other drugs we take. Sadly it had terrible consequences.
If he was (now educated on thalidomide) to follow his logic to its logical conclusion surely that would mean not taking ANY form of medication ever again. Considering this individual takes a range of medication designed to keep him alive in the long term I sadly think the point was still very much lost on him.
KJ | |||
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"Vaccine doesn't stop you having and spreading covid I'm fairly sure that current thinking is now changed and that certainly the first jab does a lot to stop it.. We will see on the coming weeks once the papers come out I guess.. yes this is right I find it amazing why some people don't seem to have kept up-to-date with the current facts about the vaccines
It's crazy isnt the amount of fab posters still saying the vaccines don't prevent transmission is quite frankly shocking. Do they live in caves seriously??
Or are they holding on that out dated statement as their excuse to to not get vaccinated still?
KJ
I mean, the same people talk about thalidomide. A bad thing happened with medicine once therefore (insert bullshit here).
Buildings occasionally collapse, cars occasionally blow up. Walk everywhere and sleep outside, it's the only way.
Crazy isn't it!
I had to explain to one of these types who saw the thalidomide warnings against getting a vaccine on Facebook that thalidomide was not an actual vaccine just a drug use for a number of things just like all the other drugs we take. Sadly it had terrible consequences.
If he was (now educated on thalidomide) to follow his logic to its logical conclusion surely that would mean not taking ANY form of medication ever again. Considering this individual takes a range of medication designed to keep him alive in the long term I sadly think the point was still very much lost on him.
KJ"But logic doesn't apply because reasons which don't bear out. The evidence has been suppressed. Wake up sheeple! | |||
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"In having a vaccine passport if we still have to provide a negative covid test? Or are some countries letting people in on a vaccine passport alone? the vaccine passport proposed has noting to do with travel yet, it is to merely access services like pubs that you could before covid happened, its a huge opening door into removing all rights, liberties and freedoms because it then allows government to deem what's 'safe and best' for the public without consultation and above all personal circumstances. I have no issue with a stamp in your passport saying you've been vax'd to travel to low vax'd countries and a test upon return. travel abroad with the exception of seeking asylum is a luxury and far to much of it done tbh. in terms of the vaccine, if folk want to take it that's fine, the vaccine protects YOU from serious illness, it helps your body to cope with any new infections and a bare basis for variant identification allowing for lesser symptoms and energy required to fight it. there has been some evidence to suggest it lowers transmission, but not entirely, as with everything there is always risk and nothing is 100% other than being alive or dead, which from corona has a 1% chance. it does not protect not someone else who hasn't had it so why would you need to worry or care over their choice or inability to have the vaccine....you know that includes folk who are immune suppressed due to transplants etc. you will literally end up with a fractioned society like we did with 'white' and 'coloured' bars, workplaces and access to services once private businesses start this, considering most gov sectors are now outsourced they with follow, literally no access anywhere. just look to African countries to see what that does. except this will become vax'd bars vs non vax'd, it has happened so many times o=in history yet we still haven't learned this lesson. Division is not the answer...it only leads down one road to civil unrest and wars. and before anyone start with the 'well you shouldn't be given treatment for refusing a vaccine, May I remind you this body is THE only vessel with you for life, if it goes so do you therefore what you put in it, how you treat it and care for it is down to personal choice. There are many whom made their conditions worse if not fatal by being victims of bad personal choice on the body front that. Age, weight and other medical conditions (mostly alzimers & dementia) were the largest factors. All 3 also have affected mindsets which if you study the brain you'll know willpower is mighty as is placebo. Maybe we should all take the personal choice to care for these vessels for life and to understand that there are serious consequences if you don't. How many were petrified due to the level of media coverage on stats we DO NOT usually hear on a daily basis....thousands have always died daily in UK, that grows as the population grows and ages, we just didn't have it in our faces hourly. for instance over this whole pandemic we know lots of people have died and these are a family member to someone (that is unavoidable) yet 0.15% of population is a lot easier on the mind that 100k. Truth is we'll never know how much the fear affected peoples ability to fight off the virus. (there's proof of this in cancer patients and other serious illness, a determination to defy death). the other is how we perceive death itself that has changed over the past century with spiritual beliefs falling from peoples lives. There's a lot to be said psychology wise as to how this narrative has been told over a virus with over 99% survival rate. This virus and how people/govs etc responded has certainly evoked the biggest psychological and social experiment in human history and we are all a part of it, like it or not. yeah my brains wired this morn soz. basically society is far to complex and consequences to great to allow it into society." 99% survival doesn't really convey the scale of the problem though. People have long covid and organ damage months after and for the rest of their lives. A high proportion of people discharged from hospital need readmission within a couple of months. If you just look at death within 28 days of a test, we get a narrow understanding of the devastation. The concept of the passports could potentially just be used for occasional events or if a crisis recurred, for example. We already have a covid app, which millions are happy to use. There will be restrictions for some, as there are different ones today. It depends on the extent of the mitigation that we are willing to make, to get life to be more satisfying and healthy for more people again. The ultra right wing politician's are against it here. But it's been very successful in Israel, where they are more advanced with vaccine rollout and reopening society, unless you are Palestinian. | |||
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"I also think it's pretty wild to compare apartheid to "I can't go to some venues because I choose not to get a jab" Actions have consequences. Choosing not to get a vaccination is not an innate characteristic. It's a choice." As someone who was in South Africa in March 2020 and spent time in Langa Township I find the comparison incredibly distasteful tbh. KJ | |||
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"Not all countries are using the same vaccines though, what happens when China or Russia demand that you have their vaccine in order to enter as they don't trust ours, sticking to tests to enter is logistically simpler and have the vaccine for your own health and probably travel insurance purposes " As I said above, for a good long while each country is going to have its own set of random and nonsensical travel requirements. The simple answer for eg. Russia demanding that travellers must take the Russian vaccine, would be for travellers to not go to Russia. Likewise there will be europeans that will not come to the UK because we will have stupid rules, and british that won't be able to go to Europe unless they follow what we might regard as their stupid rules. This is the way the world has ever been. As a human being, nobody has a "right" to go anywhere or do anything, whether it be travelling across the world or going down the pub. One million years ago you had a "right" if you were the caveman with the biggest club, at least until another caveman came along and invented the pointed stick. Now your "rights" are things negotiated between governments on a quid pro quo basis, and are changed the moment one party or the other decides they would rather do it a different way. There is no right or wrong to "rights", there is just communal consensus. If the consensus is that there is a dangerous disease going around, and that vaccination is better (rightly or wrongly) then passports, tests, quarantines it will be... | |||
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"Not all countries are using the same vaccines though, what happens when China or Russia demand that you have their vaccine in order to enter as they don't trust ours, sticking to tests to enter is logistically simpler and have the vaccine for your own health and probably travel insurance purposes " Personally i would not being going to Russia or China at anytime. I doubt they would insist on vaccinating when you turn up there as that would be ineffective as it takes time to fully work and who in their right mind would say “hell yes, jab be now”. | |||
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"Not all countries are using the same vaccines though, what happens when China or Russia demand that you have their vaccine in order to enter as they don't trust ours, sticking to tests to enter is logistically simpler and have the vaccine for your own health and probably travel insurance purposes Personally i would not being going to Russia or China at anytime. I doubt they would insist on vaccinating when you turn up there as that would be ineffective as it takes time to fully work and who in their right mind would say “hell yes, jab be now”. " That's not actually how vaccine passports work. If you need eg yellow fever jab to travel to a country, but you turn up without, they don't just jab you there and then, saying "you're okay now, welcome to the country". If you don't satisfy the travel requirements, then the airline will not carry you; if you do evade the airline checks and arrive at the country, then they will just put you on the first plane back to your origin (if you are lucky) or they will sling your arse into jail. | |||
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"Vaccine doesn't stop you having and spreading covid" Nobody knows either way as yet | |||
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"I also think it's pretty wild to compare apartheid to "I can't go to some venues because I choose not to get a jab" Actions have consequences. Choosing not to get a vaccination is not an innate characteristic. It's a choice. As someone who was in South Africa in March 2020 and spent time in Langa Township I find the comparison incredibly distasteful tbh. KJ" I think it's a sign of lack of perspective and empathy. | |||
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"It’s all still too early to say, some country’s might want proof that you have had the jabs , some might not , but getting tested will be the norm to get into countries and concerts , football matches etc " Last I heard, the government were leaving it up to private businesses. I suppose it'll depend on them weighing up hassle, public attitudes, insurance, etc. | |||
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"A vaccine passport is a form of coercion to get you to vaccinate. They can't make you get vaccinated and they can't discriminate against you if you don't. The idea gets planted in your subconscious that somehow a vaccine passport will provide you with greater freedoms than you currently have therefore you will willingly get vaccinated. In Ireland, they are allowing( yes-ALLOWING) two people who have been vaccinated to meet up indoors. Since when was it illegal or not allowed for two people to meet up! I have no view only way or the other about the vaccines and what people should do. I will choose to not get vaccinated unless I have to. For example, if I want to travel to Australia I will get the vaccine-not to give me immunity from the bug but to get me through passport control. " It may currently be illegal under Covid restrictions. And I believe that it is legal to "discriminate" against those who refuse vaccination. Personally, I'm here for it. | |||
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"I think passports will be very useful for bars/ clubs/ indoor venues within the UK The trouble is going abroad where you may have different variants present and your vaccine may/ may not be as effective- so PCR testing will still be helpful until the overall incidence of Covid gradually decreases. It really will depend on how countries manage to keep cases low long term." I suspect that's coming. International will be interesting, particularly with different vaccines approved. Variants, I've heard that T cell immunity is not reduced by any of the new variants, which is promising, but of course we'll need to keep on top of it. | |||
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"A vaccine passport is a form of coercion to get you to vaccinate. They can't make you get vaccinated and they can't discriminate against you if you don't. The idea gets planted in your subconscious that somehow a vaccine passport will provide you with greater freedoms than you currently have therefore you will willingly get vaccinated. In Ireland, they are allowing( yes-ALLOWING) two people who have been vaccinated to meet up indoors. Since when was it illegal or not allowed for two people to meet up! I have no view only way or the other about the vaccines and what people should do. I will choose to not get vaccinated unless I have to. For example, if I want to travel to Australia I will get the vaccine-not to give me immunity from the bug but to get me through passport control. " What fundamental right do you have to not be discriminated against? None. All rights are just a consensus of basic standards among the people in a society. There are LAWS, which are just a codification of the current consensus, written in a (supposedly) clear, complete and unambiguous way. All laws are subject to change the moment that whatever authority happens to hold control decides they should. Of course if the authority makes changes that enough of the people disagree with, then sooner or later the authority might cease to be the authority. In the time of a pandemic plague the authority will do whatever it deems fit as actions to combat that plague. The authority has to then at some point answer to the people for the actions it has taken - who may or may not have the resources needed to bring responsibility to that authority (eg. North Korea, Russia, China - the only way that the people will make their authority change their minds would be by overturning the authority). Of course in this country we used to have a higher authority than our own government available to us, and a concept of a human rights act, which gave a pathway via which citizens could appeal against measures imposed by government. Unfortunately this was just a law, and over the last few years we had a series of votes where the majority of those going to the polls said "we don't want this nasty human rights act, we don't want anybody above our government, we want independence, we want freedom, we want Mr Johnson to tell us what we can and cannot do". Suck it up. You don't have rights, I don't have rights, we all just get to do what Mr Johnson says we can do. If you don't agree with the vaccination that Mr Johnson is now saying is a good thing, then form a political party, gather followers, get yourself elected by majority, ban vaccines. Careful though, if enough people start dying and then say, you know what, maybe the vaccines were okay, then your political party will be the ones that have to answer to the people. So it goes. So it has always gone. | |||
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"Vaccine doesn't stop you having and spreading covid" if so why bother to have the jab seems daft | |||
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"What passport it’s a piece of paper saying you have had jab and date for second and no it doesn’t stop you catching it or spreading it it was designed to lower symptoms bit like flu jab" Great to see someone with some common sence well done | |||
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"What passport it’s a piece of paper saying you have had jab and date for second and no it doesn’t stop you catching it or spreading it it was designed to lower symptoms bit like flu jab Great to see someone with some common sence well done" I wasn't aware "common sense" meant "not up to date with the research". Huh. Every day is a school day. | |||
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"Vaccine doesn't stop you having and spreading covid if so why bother to have the jab seems daft" daft? | |||
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I'll be facing this personally no doubt when I ask my gp for a letter confirming vaccination for international travel (guessing it'll be a requirement this year) and I'll take £20 because it's always £20 for a letter.
It'll only take hours for someone to produce and sell forged proof of vaccines so I don't see how it'll be more than a placebo at the pub door. | |||
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"national ID cards under the guise of health concerns " Funny enough. I found my mum and dad's old Id cards from the 50s...you know those freedoms they fought for and we have lost... Well they had Id cards and ration books.... I found those too. You needed an ID card to claim your rations. They were OK with that. | |||
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"Was anyone ever asked for ID before they had the vaccine? I certainly wasn't. So 31m people vaccinated, and they are still discussing forms of 'proof of vaccine'. It's hard enough to get your hospital to update your GP after an admission, let alone get a post dated proof of vaccine
I'll be facing this personally no doubt when I ask my gp for a letter confirming vaccination for international travel (guessing it'll be a requirement this year) and I'll take £20 because it's always £20 for a letter.
It'll only take hours for someone to produce and sell forged proof of vaccines so I don't see how it'll be more than a placebo at the pub door."Which is why I think they will end up being a digital health passport on our phones. | |||
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" Which is why I think they will end up being a digital health passport on our phones. " May have to glue it inside the back cover of my Nokia 1101 | |||
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"Was anyone ever asked for ID before they had the vaccine? I certainly wasn't. So 31m people vaccinated, and they are still discussing forms of 'proof of vaccine'. It's hard enough to get your hospital to update your GP after an admission, let alone get a post dated proof of vaccine
I'll be facing this personally no doubt when I ask my gp for a letter confirming vaccination for international travel (guessing it'll be a requirement this year) and I'll take £20 because it's always £20 for a letter.
It'll only take hours for someone to produce and sell forged proof of vaccines so I don't see how it'll be more than a placebo at the pub door.
Which is why I think they will end up being a digital health passport on our phones. "I think a card will be more likely tbh. It'd have to be government issued to minimise fraud, but that doesn't seem insurmountable. | |||
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" Which is why I think they will end up being a digital health passport on our phones. May have to glue it inside the back cover of my Nokia 1101 " They don't make em like that anymore.. | |||
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" Which is why I think they will end up being a digital health passport on our phones. May have to glue it inside the back cover of my Nokia 1101 They don't make em like that anymore.. " Definitely not. - sent from my Nokia 9 | |||
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"Vaccine doesn't stop you having and spreading covid" They told at the start they were not sure if it stopped you spreading it. Thoughts now from research are saying it does reduce (although not completely stop) the chance of transmission. | |||
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"Vaccine doesn't stop you having and spreading covid They told at the start they were not sure if it stopped you spreading it. Thoughts now from research are saying it does reduce (although not completely stop) the chance of transmission. " Well I'm intrigued to understand from those who ask what's the point...? What in their opinion has caused the infection rates, the hospitalisations, those requiring ICU and the daily deaths to drop from 2000 to 50.? Is it the amazingly well respected lock down.? Or could it be the vaccine? Or perhaps both? | |||
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"I also think it's pretty wild to compare apartheid to "I can't go to some venues because I choose not to get a jab" Actions have consequences. Choosing not to get a vaccination is not an innate characteristic. It's a choice." we've been round this before. there is no way long term effects have been tested because for one we've only had them since last year, that is some peoples concerns & rightly so because it is THEM we have to live with the consequences if there is. THAT HAS TO REMAIN PERSONAL CHOICE. to then turn round and say well if you don't you can't be a part of the society is segregation as described above and nothing else. that was the point I was making about the 99% survival rate, all this for something the vast majority will not be affected by. once this is in pubs, do you really think it will stop there? just look across the past year at things folk like me have warned about and told over reacting or we don't have a dictatorship, won't happen here, well it did and it has and still is. Extending covid laws for 6 mths just so we can keep them just in time for winter virus season/x-mas when they'll tell us there is another massive variant on the loose and we must lock down again to prevent a few from dying, regardless of the effects on the masses. I mean why wouldn't they since they now know how to get us to behave like good little boys and girls and to do what our parent (aka Gov) tells us 'cos they know best right? as for long covid, yes I get there are some, not most, not all, a very small proportion who suffer this, loss of smell, fatigue, reduced lung capacity (it's a muscle exercise it) etc, we don't know if that is a life time thing or not yet so you cannot be a basis the passport decision on that. As for having a long term recover from being on a ventilator well that happens regardless of why you were on it because it effectively shuts the body down to bare min workings so it can fight the infection/virus/heal, you always have lung issues, muscle degradation etc with those due to the nature of the ventilator, that has nothing at all to do with the virus. I think a lot forget the science is not fact, it is only fact until we know otherwise, therefore following just the science on an unknown isn't static. there is more evidence showing PCR tests cycled too high leading to false positives (we knew this because all other viruses disappeared and everything was classed as covid.) which also means the numbers are wrong. the death numbers themselves are from people who died WITH covid not necessarily from it, many died as i said with dementia & alzimers or other complications, the virus was just the tipping point! and oh lord if I hear of another person saying my healthy so & so died from it...them you see a photo of an over weight person...sorry that is not a medically healthy person end of. We know this and yet 2/3's of UK are in that category. Do we make them all run on tread mills and eat salads to make sure they don't die of their choices....NO! why? because its degrading/body shaming and it's personal choice, they are not excluded from anywhere are they? so why would a healthy person with no vax be? just 'cos the rest want to treat their bodies like shit which puts THEM more at risk of Covid than another. FYI haven't heard nothing bout smoking being a side factor to covid deaths so not comparable. are you starting to see the real issue now? how about we make sure our own asses are medically healthy before trying to force/coerce internal medical treatments upon others. (regardless of root why, unless unchangable, but we know most are changable so let's not kid ourselves) | |||
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"Vaccine doesn't stop you having and spreading covid They told at the start they were not sure if it stopped you spreading it. Thoughts now from research are saying it does reduce (although not completely stop) the chance of transmission. Well I'm intrigued to understand from those who ask what's the point...? What in their opinion has caused the infection rates, the hospitalisations, those requiring ICU and the daily deaths to drop from 2000 to 50.? Is it the amazingly well respected lock down.? Or could it be the vaccine? Or perhaps both? " Exactly and I struggle to understand the mentality of people who think having a vaccine passport is not of some benefit in keeping us all safe. Human rights my ass. Human right issues should be kept for the battlefields of Yemen or persecutions of certain ethnic populations in countries. It's only going to involve getting a simple app on your phone, no more troublesome than having pa bank or shopping app on your phone. Some people just don't get it.... | |||
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"It’s all still too early to say, some country’s might want proof that you have had the jabs , some might not , but getting tested will be the norm to get into countries and concerts , football matches etc Last I heard, the government were leaving it up to private businesses. I suppose it'll depend on them weighing up hassle, public attitudes, insurance, etc." there is talk of large fines businesses for refusing so that's not a choice really is it. that's the problem! We're being forced to choose either this or that, they are trying to make it so there is not a choice to opt out of it. | |||
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"It’s all still too early to say, some country’s might want proof that you have had the jabs , some might not , but getting tested will be the norm to get into countries and concerts , football matches etc Last I heard, the government were leaving it up to private businesses. I suppose it'll depend on them weighing up hassle, public attitudes, insurance, etc. there is talk of large fines businesses for refusing so that's not a choice really is it. that's the problem! We're being forced to choose either this or that, they are trying to make it so there is not a choice to opt out of it. " Yeah for it to work local authorities will have to have it as part of their licencing regulations, leaving it up to individual landlords would not work. | |||
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"Vaccine doesn't stop you having and spreading covid They told at the start they were not sure if it stopped you spreading it. Thoughts now from research are saying it does reduce (although not completely stop) the chance of transmission. Well I'm intrigued to understand from those who ask what's the point...? What in their opinion has caused the infection rates, the hospitalisations, those requiring ICU and the daily deaths to drop from 2000 to 50.? Is it the amazingly well respected lock down.? Or could it be the vaccine? Or perhaps both? Exactly and I struggle to understand the mentality of people who think having a vaccine passport is not of some benefit in keeping us all safe. Human rights my ass. Human right issues should be kept for the battlefields of Yemen or persecutions of certain ethnic populations in countries. It's only going to involve getting a simple app on your phone, no more troublesome than having pa bank or shopping app on your phone. Some people just don't get it...." this is the exact issue! you think it is just an app but it's not, it is so much more just like the Jew thought it was just a pretty yellow star, until they were forced to show their papers everywhere to get access to basic amenities, excluded from some for just being Jewish, separated families as a result and separate communities persecuted in the end for it....sound familiar? and as for human right, those are the highest of all and allow you: a right to primary education, a right to choose your career, a right to choose your religion freely and worship, a right to choose where you live, a right to choose what medical treatment you have, a right to a private life, a right to marry a right to be protected from discrimination (race, religion, sexuality, gender etc) a right to protected from harm (by this they mean from other humans physical body harm (not medical) & mentally) (FYI viruses are not include in that due to their invisible nature and ability to mutate, nor can a pick location fully be determined (hence track & trace feck ups) except knowingly passed on HIV because HIV has 100% kill rate if not treated). etc etc etc basically so many things you, me , we all that for granted every day will be affected by this passport, all stripped away in the blink of an eye. as for thinking out gov members aint capable of it...go look who hilter was to start with, he was a low level nobody...took him decades (not months or days or even a few years) to work up to his level of influence that drove the war, now the whole planet knows his name. | |||
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"Vaccine doesn't stop you having and spreading covid They told at the start they were not sure if it stopped you spreading it. Thoughts now from research are saying it does reduce (although not completely stop) the chance of transmission. Well I'm intrigued to understand from those who ask what's the point...? What in their opinion has caused the infection rates, the hospitalisations, those requiring ICU and the daily deaths to drop from 2000 to 50.? Is it the amazingly well respected lock down.? Or could it be the vaccine? Or perhaps both? Exactly and I struggle to understand the mentality of people who think having a vaccine passport is not of some benefit in keeping us all safe. Human rights my ass. Human right issues should be kept for the battlefields of Yemen or persecutions of certain ethnic populations in countries. It's only going to involve getting a simple app on your phone, no more troublesome than having pa bank or shopping app on your phone. Some people just don't get it.... this is the exact issue! you think it is just an app but it's not, it is so much more just like the Jew thought it was just a pretty yellow star, until they were forced to show their papers everywhere to get access to basic amenities, excluded from some for just being Jewish, separated families as a result and separate communities persecuted in the end for it....sound familiar? and as for human right, those are the highest of all and allow you: a right to primary education, a right to choose your career, a right to choose your religion freely and worship, a right to choose where you live, a right to choose what medical treatment you have, a right to a private life, a right to marry a right to be protected from discrimination (race, religion, sexuality, gender etc) a right to protected from harm (by this they mean from other humans physical body harm (not medical) & mentally) (FYI viruses are not include in that due to their invisible nature and ability to mutate, nor can a pick location fully be determined (hence track & trace feck ups) except knowingly passed on HIV because HIV has 100% kill rate if not treated). etc etc etc basically so many things you, me , we all that for granted every day will be affected by this passport, all stripped away in the blink of an eye. as for thinking out gov members aint capable of it...go look who hilter was to start with, he was a low level nobody...took him decades (not months or days or even a few years) to work up to his level of influence that drove the war, now the whole planet knows his name." Yep. It's just like the persecution and murder of the Jews by nazi Germany right enough. | |||
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"A vaccine passport is a form of coercion to get you to vaccinate. They can't make you get vaccinated and they can't discriminate against you if you don't. The idea gets planted in your subconscious that somehow a vaccine passport will provide you with greater freedoms than you currently have therefore you will willingly get vaccinated. In Ireland, they are allowing( yes-ALLOWING) two people who have been vaccinated to meet up indoors. Since when was it illegal or not allowed for two people to meet up! I have no view only way or the other about the vaccines and what people should do. I will choose to not get vaccinated unless I have to. For example, if I want to travel to Australia I will get the vaccine-not to give me immunity from the bug but to get me through passport control. It may currently be illegal under Covid restrictions. And I believe that it is legal to "discriminate" against those who refuse vaccination. Personally, I'm here for it." No, it is not, you cannot force any medical treatment on anyone! simple. you open that door & it'll allow them to force all sorts of medical treatments upon society. | |||
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" this is the exact issue! you think it is just an app but it's not, it is so much more just like the Jew thought it was just a pretty yellow star, until they were forced to show their papers everywhere to get access to basic amenities, excluded from some for just being Jewish, separated families as a result and separate communities persecuted in the end for it....sound familiar? ." Why does this have to be dragged out every fucking time??? This is absolutely nothing like the situation in Nazi Germany and occupied Europe in the 30s and 40s. For a start, the persecution came first and by the time stars were imposed, it was pretty fucking obvious that it wasn't for aesthetic reasons. Jews had been persecuted in Europe for years before anyone had even heard of a jumped up little man from Austria. Pogroms happened across Europe, but especially in Eastern Europe, throughout the early 20th century and by the 30s, many Jewish refugees were in Germany and other countries. Why do you think they were singled out as a group? Expelled from their native countries and unwelcome in the new one etc. I am sick to the back teeth of the systematic, state sponsored ethnic cleansing of the Jews and other groups being effectively belittled by it being compared to anything happening around this pandemic. Every January, I sit and listen to the 140.000 Namen Lezen, from Camp Westerbork in the Netherlands and I listen for the names of my family who were deported from there to Dachau, Sobibor and Auschwitz. It really upsets me that the second someone wants to question the Covid restrictions, the immediate comparison is with what happened to my family. | |||
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"national ID cards under the guise of health concerns Funny enough. I found my mum and dad's old Id cards from the 50s...you know those freedoms they fought for and we have lost... Well they had Id cards and ration books.... I found those too. You needed an ID card to claim your rations. They were OK with that. " rations during war when Europe's crops were ripped to mud & our weren't much better, those ones, yes.. We have food and the virus is not affecting food to the point it would cause mass starvation. FYI they were still allowed to have dances and see friends & hug etc. they weren't segregated at home permanently for a year, they could go to work and come home again! | |||
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"national ID cards under the guise of health concerns Funny enough. I found my mum and dad's old Id cards from the 50s...you know those freedoms they fought for and we have lost... Well they had Id cards and ration books.... I found those too. You needed an ID card to claim your rations. They were OK with that. rations during war when Europe's crops were ripped to mud & our weren't much better, those ones, yes.. We have food and the virus is not affecting food to the point it would cause mass starvation. FYI they were still allowed to have dances and see friends & hug etc. they weren't segregated at home permanently for a year, they could go to work and come home again!" Men and women were compelled by law to place their lives in danger, for the good of the nation. You could not easily refuse. Many freedoms were curtailed to try and secure the victory. | |||
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" this is the exact issue! you think it is just an app but it's not, it is so much more just like the Jew thought it was just a pretty yellow star, until they were forced to show their papers everywhere to get access to basic amenities, excluded from some for just being Jewish, separated families as a result and separate communities persecuted in the end for it....sound familiar? . Why does this have to be dragged out every fucking time??? This is absolutely nothing like the situation in Nazi Germany and occupied Europe in the 30s and 40s. For a start, the persecution came first and by the time stars were imposed, it was pretty fucking obvious that it wasn't for aesthetic reasons. Jews had been persecuted in Europe for years before anyone had even heard of a jumped up little man from Austria. Pogroms happened across Europe, but especially in Eastern Europe, throughout the early 20th century and by the 30s, many Jewish refugees were in Germany and other countries. Why do you think they were singled out as a group? Expelled from their native countries and unwelcome in the new one etc. I am sick to the back teeth of the systematic, state sponsored ethnic cleansing of the Jews and other groups being effectively belittled by it being compared to anything happening around this pandemic. Every January, I sit and listen to the 140.000 Namen Lezen, from Camp Westerbork in the Netherlands and I listen for the names of my family who were deported from there to Dachau, Sobibor and Auschwitz. It really upsets me that the second someone wants to question the Covid restrictions, the immediate comparison is with what happened to my family. " you misunderstand my intention, and you are far from the only one with a messy history. I won't apologise for something I did not do however, I do not with a repeat of anything like it. none, held the influence of Hilter was what I was saying, he drove the camps and many more severe abuses, those were not before the 30's, those were Hilter. Stalin did similar, Kim Jung Un does too. it is an example to display how human rights get abused under the premise of 'safety' from a particular segment of society regardless of if it was jews, coloured, natives, Cath/prods etc. they all fell foul of the same divisional rhetoric that is appearing in our society now...and for gods sake we know that history repeats itself, just how many times do we need to see history repeating before it happens instead of fobbing it off as nonsense. I can't get off this planet & nor can you, we're all suck here to deal with it. | |||
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"national ID cards under the guise of health concerns Funny enough. I found my mum and dad's old Id cards from the 50s...you know those freedoms they fought for and we have lost... Well they had Id cards and ration books.... I found those too. You needed an ID card to claim your rations. They were OK with that. rations during war when Europe's crops were ripped to mud & our weren't much better, those ones, yes.. We have food and the virus is not affecting food to the point it would cause mass starvation. FYI they were still allowed to have dances and see friends & hug etc. they weren't segregated at home permanently for a year, they could go to work and come home again! Men and women were compelled by law to place their lives in danger, for the good of the nation. You could not easily refuse. Many freedoms were curtailed to try and secure the victory. " victory over other humans with guns, bombs, gas & nukes etc not a natural virus! | |||
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"Before you risk sounding any more ill informed about the history of the persecution of the Jews in Europe in the first part of the 20th century, please go and read about it. Anti Jewish sentiment existed already in society well before Hitler had finished his stint in the WW1 trenches and the Nazis commenced immediate and very obvious state sponsored persecution in 1933 upon taking office. It wasn't hidden or dressed up. It was obvious and overt. The Final Solution was the brainchild of other leading Nazis (the actual mechanisms and logistics). To suggest one man was singularly responsible is ludicrous. He was supported and aided by the people around him who were just as racist and horrific as him. Men like Eichmann, Goering, Goebbels, Heydrich etc. If it had been just one nutty man, he'd never have managed it. The anti Jewish sentiment was well established before 1933 and to suggest that events prior to the commencement of the Nazi rule are not relevant is to completely lack conceptual understanding of why or how the Nazis achieved election through democratic means. Oh, and the only nukes in WW2 were the ones the Americans dropped on Japan ""To suggest one man was singularly responsible is ludicrous. He was supported and aided by the people around him who were just as racist and horrific as him. Men like Eichmann, Goering, Goebbels, Heydrich etc. If it had been just one nutty man, he'd never have managed it." this was the point I was trying to make, it takes a divided society to allow these abuses and they are on the way, we already have division, just in this one year, driven by the leaders of this country and other influential peoples. Moreso that the who did what to whom when. the native American genocide was much larger than the Jewish one but we never talk about that, Canada is very intolerant of natives to the point they still had them in reduction camps in the 90's, like the Chinese gov have the Ugyer's in now. (yes that lovely country we think of is actually very small minded and racist, thousands of women go missing and are never investigated etc it's horrible). P.s. don't like America's ways (jumped up, greedy & power hungry), they are all from immigrants if not natives, all stole their land etc. British history I'm ashamed of especially as it is US who have done much over the centuries & all over the world. I'm of the mindset. no person can actually own land, it's here before you and after you and not just for you, so you cannot own it, merely be a caretaker of it. Its a human construct to own things and pay for things. nature gives them relatively freely and we charge...hmm. | |||
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"Vaccine doesn't stop you having and spreading covid I'm fairly sure that current thinking is now changed and that certainly the first jab does a lot to stop it.. We will see on the coming weeks once the papers come out I guess.. " | |||
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"national ID cards under the guise of health concerns Funny enough. I found my mum and dad's old Id cards from the 50s...you know those freedoms they fought for and we have lost... Well they had Id cards and ration books.... I found those too. You needed an ID card to claim your rations. They were OK with that. rations during war when Europe's crops were ripped to mud & our weren't much better, those ones, yes.. We have food and the virus is not affecting food to the point it would cause mass starvation. FYI they were still allowed to have dances and see friends & hug etc. they weren't segregated at home permanently for a year, they could go to work and come home again!" So if they can have dances and hug id cards are OK then? | |||
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"Doesn't matter if your vaxed or not the government will Continue to lie and restrict movements as they like to control us First thing they said was we need to protect the elderly and vulnerable before we could move on That's been done via vaccines so now they decide to control other things such as concerts travel Can't really see many over 65s at either of those Restrict our movements but carry on allowing others to enter that's a great idea only 39 countries need to be quarantined when entering UK All just a control thing and just sick of it all now " Not really thought about it at that level. When you say it like that I'm concerned. I'm 41, had both jabs, desperate for a little normality, seems all the things I want to go off and do will be more hassle than it's worth. I've done everything that's been asked of me, starting to feel a bit mugged off now | |||
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" this is the exact issue! you think it is just an app but it's not, it is so much more just like the Jew thought it was just a pretty yellow star, until they were forced to show their papers everywhere to get access to basic amenities, excluded from some for just being Jewish, separated families as a result and separate communities persecuted in the end for it....sound familiar? . Why does this have to be dragged out every fucking time??? This is absolutely nothing like the situation in Nazi Germany and occupied Europe in the 30s and 40s. For a start, the persecution came first and by the time stars were imposed, it was pretty fucking obvious that it wasn't for aesthetic reasons. Jews had been persecuted in Europe for years before anyone had even heard of a jumped up little man from Austria. Pogroms happened across Europe, but especially in Eastern Europe, throughout the early 20th century and by the 30s, many Jewish refugees were in Germany and other countries. Why do you think they were singled out as a group? Expelled from their native countries and unwelcome in the new one etc. I am sick to the back teeth of the systematic, state sponsored ethnic cleansing of the Jews and other groups being effectively belittled by it being compared to anything happening around this pandemic. Every January, I sit and listen to the 140.000 Namen Lezen, from Camp Westerbork in the Netherlands and I listen for the names of my family who were deported from there to Dachau, Sobibor and Auschwitz. It really upsets me that the second someone wants to question the Covid restrictions, the immediate comparison is with what happened to my family. " *Standing ovation* This is not the Holocaust. It is not Apartheid. | |||
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"Vaccine doesn't stop you having and spreading covid" You got it
What is the definition of a vaccine - NOT what they are calling a vaccine that's for sure - it's simply gene therapy | |||
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"Vaccine doesn't stop you having and spreading covid You got it
What is the definition of a vaccine - NOT what they are calling a vaccine that's for sure - it's simply gene therapy "Just like most of the vaccines we have, then  | |||
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"Vaccine doesn't stop you having and spreading covid You got it
What is the definition of a vaccine - NOT what they are calling a vaccine that's for sure - it's simply gene therapy
Just like most of the vaccines we have, then "Not at all, but there is no true vaccine for the 19th strain of Covid - never will be as with the Rhinovirus
It's just the definition of the word vaccine does not apply to what people that are willing to have injected into them for this virus. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Vaccine doesn't stop you having and spreading covid You got it
What is the definition of a vaccine - NOT what they are calling a vaccine that's for sure - it's simply gene therapy
Just like most of the vaccines we have, then
Not at all, but there is no true vaccine for the 19th strain of Covid - never will be as with the Rhinovirus
It's just the definition of the word vaccine does not apply to what people that are willing to have injected into them for this virus."Oh? How do you figure that? You do know that the polio vaccine doesn't stop infection? Which is why we have vaccine induced polio? The vast majority of our vaccines only stop disease or severe disease (polio only tested to stop polio) It's almost like this is a made up problem | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Vaccine doesn't stop you having and spreading covid You got it
What is the definition of a vaccine - NOT what they are calling a vaccine that's for sure - it's simply gene therapy
Just like most of the vaccines we have, then
Not at all, but there is no true vaccine for the 19th strain of Covid - never will be as with the Rhinovirus
It's just the definition of the word vaccine does not apply to what people that are willing to have injected into them for this virus."I'm not sure what the point is here. But have a ponder what do you think has reduced the infection rates from 70k a day at the start of the year to 4k a day now. What do you think has reduced hospital admissions from 4k per day to approx 250 per day now. Better still what has happened in the last 3 months to reduce the deaths from 1500 a day to 50 a day now. Give it whatever label you wish but it's been a massive step in the right direction. | |||
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"Tend to avoid the forums lately, especially this Virus forum but popped into this thread and... ...it reminded me why I decided to avoid. Admit I have not read every post (too many) but certainly most to get a feel and yep the tribalism is as strong as ever. Why is everyone on a scale of 1 to 10 either a 1 or a 10? What happened to 2-9? Why black and white? What happened to shades if grey? We are dealing with some very complex interlinked issues in the UK (World) right now. Nothing should be viewed in total isolation. Of course there will be some very sensible arguments for vaccine passports/proof of vax card etc. Of course there will be some equally valid counter arguments. There IS a gradual erosion of our civil liberties and rights underway in the UK. Much of it is small, seemingly inconsequential or innocuous. But taken as a whole there IS genuine cause for concern. Proof of vax in and of itself (in isolation) seems sensible. Some (many on here) have no problem with that. But it will be yet another of the “death by a 1000 cuts” to rights and it begs many questions or raises further concerns that should not be dismissed out of hand because it doesn’t fit with the agendas of the 1s and 10s... For example (sure there are many more): - what assurances will there be for how the data is used (see recent attempt by govt to sell NHS data) and will there be legal recourse if govt doesn’t stick to it? - what assurances will there be around the purpose and use cases for such a “document” (ie prevent future extension to need it to access public services). - as we KNOW viruses mutate and it is therefore inevitable that people will require an annual covid vaccine booster, that will mean the “proof doc” will need to be updated ergo ongoing mandation. - will there be full disclosure on who in public office (ie those who determine policy and legislation) have financial interests in any company linked to vaccines, test & trace, vax proof docs/apps etc? - will the vax proof doc/app be tamper proof or secure from forgeries? - what if there is no international cooperation and agreement on different vaccine types and some countries insist on specific vaccines? - how will they accommodate ppl who cannot have the vaccine(s) for medical reasons? How will that be signified on the vax proof doc/app? Does that create data protection and privacy issues? Will that create potential employment discrimination issues? Will this create social exclusion issues? And (starting to show linkages, though not going to write an essay)... - will UK citizens have a right to protest to repeal in future? - will UK citizens be able to sue for substantial damages in future if it does turn out that the vaccine(s) has created longer term health issues (I do mean substantial not the Govt cap, so a rhetorical question really cos we know we can’t) - if a UK citizen did want to attempt legal action (eg against their employer who wants to change employment contracts to require vax proof) will they get legal aid to take on the bug corporate? The list goes on and on. I do not trust the current UK govt. The executive are a bunch of proto fascists masquerading as Conservatives to gain opportunistic benefits. Even Thatcher would blanche at their actions and the legislation they have been quietly pushing through (piggybacking clauses into different pieces of seemingly unrelated legislation that as a whole creates a framework to allow the Executive more unfettered and unscrutinised power than ever before). These ARE dangerous times and it would be naive to think otherwise. Final point... Always follow the money! Ask who is getting rich(er) as a result of all that has happened in past year. Not for one moment saying this is all fake or a conspiracy, but it IS classic disaster capitalism and opportunism in full flow! " It's always good when a post makes you stop and reflect. You make good points. I can understand that in a crisis corners sometimes need to be cut. What I don't understand is how lackadaisical with quality and design we have become, and accepting of it. We used to design systems which were rigorously tested, with in built fail safe and redundancy, which were tested to work at edge cases as well as the core in the middle. Where data was secure and encrypted and maintenance policies which ensured it was removed after the agreed time. Now it seems any old thrown together process is a goer. The example (admittedly at the start of the pandemic) of our national reporting being on an out of date and unsupported version of excel typifies the approach. Its disheartening how far we are from where we should be. | |||
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"national ID cards under the guise of health concerns Funny enough. I found my mum and dad's old Id cards from the 50s...you know those freedoms they fought for and we have lost... Well they had Id cards and ration books.... I found those too. You needed an ID card to claim your rations. They were OK with that. rations during war when Europe's crops were ripped to mud & our weren't much better, those ones, yes.. We have food and the virus is not affecting food to the point it would cause mass starvation. FYI they were still allowed to have dances and see friends & hug etc. they weren't segregated at home permanently for a year, they could go to work and come home again! So if they can have dances and hug id cards are OK then? " They werent excluded from aspects of society is the point. We have been, locked up for a year, told cant touch people, cant stand next to people...all nuts in terms of human behaviour & social skills. I dread to think how babies are after all this. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"national ID cards under the guise of health concerns Funny enough. I found my mum and dad's old Id cards from the 50s...you know those freedoms they fought for and we have lost... Well they had Id cards and ration books.... I found those too. You needed an ID card to claim your rations. They were OK with that. rations during war when Europe's crops were ripped to mud & our weren't much better, those ones, yes.. We have food and the virus is not affecting food to the point it would cause mass starvation. FYI they were still allowed to have dances and see friends & hug etc. they weren't segregated at home permanently for a year, they could go to work and come home again! So if they can have dances and hug id cards are OK then? They werent excluded from aspects of society is the point. We have been, locked up for a year, told cant touch people, cant stand next to people...all nuts in terms of human behaviour & social skills. I dread to think how babies are after all this. " Babies who are still in their families?  | |||
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"Tend to avoid the forums lately, especially this Virus forum but popped into this thread and... ...it reminded me why I decided to avoid. Admit I have not read every post (too many) but certainly most to get a feel and yep the tribalism is as strong as ever. Why is everyone on a scale of 1 to 10 either a 1 or a 10? What happened to 2-9? Why black and white? What happened to shades if grey? We are dealing with some very complex interlinked issues in the UK (World) right now. Nothing should be viewed in total isolation. Of course there will be some very sensible arguments for vaccine passports/proof of vax card etc. Of course there will be some equally valid counter arguments. There IS a gradual erosion of our civil liberties and rights underway in the UK. Much of it is small, seemingly inconsequential or innocuous. But taken as a whole there IS genuine cause for concern. Proof of vax in and of itself (in isolation) seems sensible. Some (many on here) have no problem with that. But it will be yet another of the “death by a 1000 cuts” to rights and it begs many questions or raises further concerns that should not be dismissed out of hand because it doesn’t fit with the agendas of the 1s and 10s... For example (sure there are many more): - what assurances will there be for how the data is used (see recent attempt by govt to sell NHS data) and will there be legal recourse if govt doesn’t stick to it? - what assurances will there be around the purpose and use cases for such a “document” (ie prevent future extension to need it to access public services). - as we KNOW viruses mutate and it is therefore inevitable that people will require an annual covid vaccine booster, that will mean the “proof doc” will need to be updated ergo ongoing mandation. - will there be full disclosure on who in public office (ie those who determine policy and legislation) have financial interests in any company linked to vaccines, test & trace, vax proof docs/apps etc? - will the vax proof doc/app be tamper proof or secure from forgeries? - what if there is no international cooperation and agreement on different vaccine types and some countries insist on specific vaccines? - how will they accommodate ppl who cannot have the vaccine(s) for medical reasons? How will that be signified on the vax proof doc/app? Does that create data protection and privacy issues? Will that create potential employment discrimination issues? Will this create social exclusion issues? And (starting to show linkages, though not going to write an essay)... - will UK citizens have a right to protest to repeal in future? - will UK citizens be able to sue for substantial damages in future if it does turn out that the vaccine(s) has created longer term health issues (I do mean substantial not the Govt cap, so a rhetorical question really cos we know we can’t) - if a UK citizen did want to attempt legal action (eg against their employer who wants to change employment contracts to require vax proof) will they get legal aid to take on the bug corporate? The list goes on and on. I do not trust the current UK govt. The executive are a bunch of proto fascists masquerading as Conservatives to gain opportunistic benefits. Even Thatcher would blanche at their actions and the legislation they have been quietly pushing through (piggybacking clauses into different pieces of seemingly unrelated legislation that as a whole creates a framework to allow the Executive more unfettered and unscrutinised power than ever before). These ARE dangerous times and it would be naive to think otherwise. Final point... Always follow the money! Ask who is getting rich(er) as a result of all that has happened in past year. Not for one moment saying this is all fake or a conspiracy, but it IS classic disaster capitalism and opportunism in full flow! " Thank you, that's what i keep trying to explain. Its not for safety purposes, but for control, slow, steady erosions of rights. | |||
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"national ID cards under the guise of health concerns Funny enough. I found my mum and dad's old Id cards from the 50s...you know those freedoms they fought for and we have lost... Well they had Id cards and ration books.... I found those too. You needed an ID card to claim your rations. They were OK with that. rations during war when Europe's crops were ripped to mud & our weren't much better, those ones, yes.. We have food and the virus is not affecting food to the point it would cause mass starvation. FYI they were still allowed to have dances and see friends & hug etc. they weren't segregated at home permanently for a year, they could go to work and come home again! So if they can have dances and hug id cards are OK then? They werent excluded from aspects of society is the point. We have been, locked up for a year, told cant touch people, cant stand next to people...all nuts in terms of human behaviour & social skills. I dread to think how babies are after all this. Babies who are still in their families? "Babies stuck inside 4 walls for past year who have been stripped of the ability to learn from peers (mum/baby groups etc). It have never been just the parents that interact & teach a child, we all do, first year they learn so much. There's a post in the attachment theory thread that describes some the issues they will face due to the isolation. I cannot be bothered going into it but basically early years interactions can have a knock on effect later in life. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"national ID cards under the guise of health concerns Funny enough. I found my mum and dad's old Id cards from the 50s...you know those freedoms they fought for and we have lost... Well they had Id cards and ration books.... I found those too. You needed an ID card to claim your rations. They were OK with that. rations during war when Europe's crops were ripped to mud & our weren't much better, those ones, yes.. We have food and the virus is not affecting food to the point it would cause mass starvation. FYI they were still allowed to have dances and see friends & hug etc. they weren't segregated at home permanently for a year, they could go to work and come home again! So if they can have dances and hug id cards are OK then? They werent excluded from aspects of society is the point. We have been, locked up for a year, told cant touch people, cant stand next to people...all nuts in terms of human behaviour & social skills. I dread to think how babies are after all this. Babies who are still in their families?
Babies stuck inside 4 walls for past year who have been stripped of the ability to learn from peers (mum/baby groups etc). It have never been just the parents that interact & teach a child, we all do, first year they learn so much.
There's a post in the attachment theory thread that describes some the issues they will face due to the isolation. I cannot be bothered going into it but basically early years interactions can have a knock on effect later in life.
"Yeah I don't think this is high on the list of issues in a pandemic. You may be right, but... pandemic. Priorities change. | |||
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"Tend to avoid the forums lately, especially this Virus forum but popped into this thread and... ...it reminded me why I decided to avoid. Admit I have not read every post (too many) but certainly most to get a feel and yep the tribalism is as strong as ever. Why is everyone on a scale of 1 to 10 either a 1 or a 10? What happened to 2-9? Why black and white? What happened to shades if grey? We are dealing with some very complex interlinked issues in the UK (World) right now. Nothing should be viewed in total isolation. Of course there will be some very sensible arguments for vaccine passports/proof of vax card etc. Of course there will be some equally valid counter arguments. There IS a gradual erosion of our civil liberties and rights underway in the UK. Much of it is small, seemingly inconsequential or innocuous. But taken as a whole there IS genuine cause for concern. Proof of vax in and of itself (in isolation) seems sensible. Some (many on here) have no problem with that. But it will be yet another of the “death by a 1000 cuts” to rights and it begs many questions or raises further concerns that should not be dismissed out of hand because it doesn’t fit with the agendas of the 1s and 10s... For example (sure there are many more): - what assurances will there be for how the data is used (see recent attempt by govt to sell NHS data) and will there be legal recourse if govt doesn’t stick to it? - what assurances will there be around the purpose and use cases for such a “document” (ie prevent future extension to need it to access public services). - as we KNOW viruses mutate and it is therefore inevitable that people will require an annual covid vaccine booster, that will mean the “proof doc” will need to be updated ergo ongoing mandation. - will there be full disclosure on who in public office (ie those who determine policy and legislation) have financial interests in any company linked to vaccines, test & trace, vax proof docs/apps etc? - will the vax proof doc/app be tamper proof or secure from forgeries? - what if there is no international cooperation and agreement on different vaccine types and some countries insist on specific vaccines? - how will they accommodate ppl who cannot have the vaccine(s) for medical reasons? How will that be signified on the vax proof doc/app? Does that create data protection and privacy issues? Will that create potential employment discrimination issues? Will this create social exclusion issues? And (starting to show linkages, though not going to write an essay)... - will UK citizens have a right to protest to repeal in future? - will UK citizens be able to sue for substantial damages in future if it does turn out that the vaccine(s) has created longer term health issues (I do mean substantial not the Govt cap, so a rhetorical question really cos we know we can’t) - if a UK citizen did want to attempt legal action (eg against their employer who wants to change employment contracts to require vax proof) will they get legal aid to take on the bug corporate? The list goes on and on. I do not trust the current UK govt. The executive are a bunch of proto fascists masquerading as Conservatives to gain opportunistic benefits. Even Thatcher would blanche at their actions and the legislation they have been quietly pushing through (piggybacking clauses into different pieces of seemingly unrelated legislation that as a whole creates a framework to allow the Executive more unfettered and unscrutinised power than ever before). These ARE dangerous times and it would be naive to think otherwise. Final point... Always follow the money! Ask who is getting rich(er) as a result of all that has happened in past year. Not for one moment saying this is all fake or a conspiracy, but it IS classic disaster capitalism and opportunism in full flow! " Can we get a standing ovation please?! That has to be the most sensible, keeping it real post I ever read in this here virus forum. Thank you | |||
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"Vaccine passport in not useful because even though he/she has got the jab he/she can still catch it and pass it on. "Seatbelts are not useful because even though he/she is wearing one he/she can still cause an accident... | |||
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"Vaccine passport in not useful because even though he/she has got the jab he/she can still catch it and pass it on.
Seatbelts are not useful because even though he/she is wearing one he/she can still cause an accident..."Housing not useful because cold still gets in | |||
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"Vaccine passport in not useful because even though he/she has got the jab he/she can still catch it and pass it on.
Seatbelts are not useful because even though he/she is wearing one he/she can still cause an accident...
Housing not useful because cold still gets in"My umbrella is fucking useless because my shoes still get wet and houses get flooded... | |||
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"Vaccine passport in not useful because even though he/she has got the jab he/she can still catch it and pass it on.
Seatbelts are not useful because even though he/she is wearing one he/she can still cause an accident...
Housing not useful because cold still gets in
My umbrella is fucking useless because my shoes still get wet and houses get flooded..."Antibiotics are useless because diseases still make people sick | |||
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"Vaccine passport in not useful because even though he/she has got the jab he/she can still catch it and pass it on.
Seatbelts are not useful because even though he/she is wearing one he/she can still cause an accident...
Housing not useful because cold still gets in
My umbrella is fucking useless because my shoes still get wet and houses get flooded...
Antibiotics are useless because diseases still make people sick"Sticking plasters are crap because chain saw accidents... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Vaccine passport in not useful because even though he/she has got the jab he/she can still catch it and pass it on.
Seatbelts are not useful because even though he/she is wearing one he/she can still cause an accident...
Housing not useful because cold still gets in
My umbrella is fucking useless because my shoes still get wet and houses get flooded...
Antibiotics are useless because diseases still make people sick
Sticking plasters are crap because chain saw accidents..."Water is a toxin because overdose is possible | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Vaccine passport in not useful because even though he/she has got the jab he/she can still catch it and pass it on.
Seatbelts are not useful because even though he/she is wearing one he/she can still cause an accident...
Housing not useful because cold still gets in
My umbrella is fucking useless because my shoes still get wet and houses get flooded...
Antibiotics are useless because diseases still make people sick
Sticking plasters are crap because chain saw accidents...
Water is a toxin because overdose is possible"Ooh can I play? Condoms are useless as they are only 98% safe. | |||
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"Vaccine passport in not useful because even though he/she has got the jab he/she can still catch it and pass it on.
Seatbelts are not useful because even though he/she is wearing one he/she can still cause an accident...
Housing not useful because cold still gets in
My umbrella is fucking useless because my shoes still get wet and houses get flooded...
Antibiotics are useless because diseases still make people sick
Sticking plasters are crap because chain saw accidents...
Water is a toxin because overdose is possible
Ooh can I play?
Condoms are useless as they are only 98% safe."Some people say this | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Vaccine passport in not useful because even though he/she has got the jab he/she can still catch it and pass it on.
Seatbelts are not useful because even though he/she is wearing one he/she can still cause an accident...
Housing not useful because cold still gets in
My umbrella is fucking useless because my shoes still get wet and houses get flooded...
Antibiotics are useless because diseases still make people sick
Sticking plasters are crap because chain saw accidents...
Water is a toxin because overdose is possible
Ooh can I play?
Condoms are useless as they are only 98% safe.
Some people say this "Gravity is fake or we wouldn’t be able to fly. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Vaccine passport in not useful because even though he/she has got the jab he/she can still catch it and pass it on.
Seatbelts are not useful because even though he/she is wearing one he/she can still cause an accident...
Housing not useful because cold still gets in
My umbrella is fucking useless because my shoes still get wet and houses get flooded...
Antibiotics are useless because diseases still make people sick
Sticking plasters are crap because chain saw accidents...
Water is a toxin because overdose is possible
Ooh can I play?
Condoms are useless as they are only 98% safe.
Some people say this
Gravity is fake or we wouldn’t be able to fly."Lol. Nah. Planes are 100% dangerous because gravity exists plus occasionally crashes happen | |||
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" I dread to think how babies are after all this. " With a bit of luck, fewer of them will have been born. I read somewhere that, surprisingly, conceptions arising from lockdown boredom have not been as many as expected. | |||
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"Vaccine passports to go into a restaurant, theatre etc will never happen. They are unworkable and more importantly they would be discriminatory. If challenged in a court of law no judge would rule it as lawful. The only vaccine proof that could be required is to enter another country which will definitely happen but totally understandble." They will I think happen Put it like this my family won't be visiting anywhere to eat or drink until we know everyone in the same building has been tested safe I'm pretty sure most people will be thinking the same.. Because getting Covid will mean 10 days self isolation unpaid.. And no one wants to lose anymore money So I think testing in all pubs and restaurants will eventually come into force for that reason | |||
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"Not all countries are using the same vaccines though, what happens when China or Russia demand that you have their vaccine in order to enter as they don't trust ours, sticking to tests to enter is logistically simpler and have the vaccine for your own health and probably travel insurance purposes " They won't.. They will ask that you test before leaving and arriving.. If you fail you don't travel or if yiu get home and fail you self isolate at your own expense Its a really simple system everyone is making far too complicated I think | |||
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"Vaccine passports to go into a restaurant, theatre etc will never happen. They are unworkable and more importantly they would be discriminatory. If challenged in a court of law no judge would rule it as lawful. The only vaccine proof that could be required is to enter another country which will definitely happen but totally understandble. They will I think happen Put it like this my family won't be visiting anywhere to eat or drink until we know everyone in the same building has been tested safe I'm pretty sure most people will be thinking the same.. Because getting Covid will mean 10 days self isolation unpaid.. And no one wants to lose anymore money So I think testing in all pubs and restaurants will eventually come into force for that reason " It will be interesting what the public make of it. I'll certainly favour places that exclude those who choose not to be vaccinated. | |||
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"Vaccine passport in not useful because even though he/she has got the jab he/she can still catch it and pass it on.
Seatbelts are not useful because even though he/she is wearing one he/she can still cause an accident...
Housing not useful because cold still gets in
My umbrella is fucking useless because my shoes still get wet and houses get flooded...
Antibiotics are useless because diseases still make people sick
Sticking plasters are crap because chain saw accidents...
Water is a toxin because overdose is possible
Ooh can I play?
Condoms are useless as they are only 98% safe.
Some people say this
Gravity is fake or we wouldn’t be able to fly.
Lol. Nah. Planes are 100% dangerous because gravity exists plus occasionally crashes happen"Interesting perspective... | |||
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" They won't.. They will ask that you test before leaving and arriving.. If you fail you don't travel or if yiu get home and fail you self isolate at your own expense Its a really simple system everyone is making far too complicated I think " I suspect that a good proportion of travellers who haven't had to put up with many obstacles in the past just won't bother any more. The cost of testing is not insignificant,nor might be the cost of quarantining. Add to that a general increase in fares in order to recoup losses. Mass travel in recent decades has been aided by low prices. Whether simple or complicated there comes a time when one more obstacle becomes too many. It's called the last straw! | |||
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" They won't.. They will ask that you test before leaving and arriving.. If you fail you don't travel or if yiu get home and fail you self isolate at your own expense Its a really simple system everyone is making far too complicated I think I suspect that a good proportion of travellers who haven't had to put up with many obstacles in the past just won't bother any more. The cost of testing is not insignificant,nor might be the cost of quarantining. Add to that a general increase in fares in order to recoup losses. Mass travel in recent decades has been aided by low prices. Whether simple or complicated there comes a time when one more obstacle becomes too many. It's called the last straw! " Long term we'll see what happens. For the moment, there are good reasons to discourage recreational travel. | |||
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"In having a vaccine passport if we still have to provide a negative covid test? Or are some countries letting people in on a vaccine passport alone? " For one thing it will prevent you being hospitalised in Sharm el sheikh with COVID. | |||
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"Travel I can understand. Domestically, why are we needing a vaccine passport for pubs and events? The vaccine rollout is going well. How can we spread something domestically if the majority are immunised? So confused with that. " I imagine it's to give peoe confidence that they can attend safely? Amongst other things.. Funny enough I've heard of more people catching it the last 2 weeks (4...2 married couples, all 4 vaccinated) than in the previous 2 months. Theres still a lot of it about. But hopefully going in the right direction. | |||
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"It’s most likely if it happens be inclusive on the nhs app." Genuine question. Do you really think putting something as significant would have credibility with NHS branding on it? I mean the nhs does and has done some amazing things but is also woefully inept at some other things. Getting the administration of peoples details such as correct name spelling, address, appointment times etc correct being one of those, sending letters, texts etc. | |||
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"In having a vaccine passport if we still have to provide a negative covid test? Or are some countries letting people in on a vaccine passport alone? " Covid test will be a licence to print money probably adding £400 to an holiday . | |||
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"In having a vaccine passport if we still have to provide a negative covid test? Or are some countries letting people in on a vaccine passport alone? Covid test will be a licence to print money probably adding £400 to an holiday . " This worries me, we are a family of 6. Not sure we can afford to go if we all have to pay for tests (including the kids) 
We have 2 holidays to Egypt booked (old bookings that have been moved) one this coming November and next April | |||
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"It’s most likely if it happens be inclusive on the nhs app. Genuine question. Do you really think putting something as significant would have credibility with NHS branding on it? I mean the nhs does and has done some amazing things but is also woefully inept at some other things. Getting the administration of peoples details such as correct name spelling, address, appointment times etc correct being one of those, sending letters, texts etc. " The “NHS” is increasingly a “brand” and is certainly now an almost completely decentralised federation of separate health trusts with local autonomy. It is one of the ways it has been increasingly privatised by stealth over the years (check the small print in MANY of the services you may receive purporting to be the “NHS”. The track and trace app being a perfect example. The media and govt called it “NHS Track & Trace” but have a look at who developed the actual app then look at which companies are running (for a very substantial fee) the non digital aspects. Anyway - back on topic. Note this morning old Johnson has backtracked, again! Now saying no vax passport/proof for pubs, bars and restaurants. Only for larger crowds such as cinema, theatre, sporting events. I can see a statistical logic at play there. If (big IF) that becomes the de-facto position I have to ask all those above who claimed they would not go to a pub/restaurant that did not have vax proof requirement = “what you gonna do now?” | |||
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"In having a vaccine passport if we still have to provide a negative covid test? Or are some countries letting people in on a vaccine passport alone? the vaccine passport proposed has noting to do with travel yet, it is to merely access services like pubs that you could before covid happened, its a huge opening door into removing all rights, liberties and freedoms because it then allows government to deem what's 'safe and best' for the public without consultation and above all personal circumstances. I have no issue with a stamp in your passport saying you've been vax'd to travel to low vax'd countries and a test upon return. travel abroad with the exception of seeking asylum is a luxury and far to much of it done tbh. in terms of the vaccine, if folk want to take it that's fine, the vaccine protects YOU from serious illness, it helps your body to cope with any new infections and a bare basis for variant identification allowing for lesser symptoms and energy required to fight it. there has been some evidence to suggest it lowers transmission, but not entirely, as with everything there is always risk and nothing is 100% other than being alive or dead, which from corona has a 1% chance. it does not protect not someone else who hasn't had it so why would you need to worry or care over their choice or inability to have the vaccine....you know that includes folk who are immune suppressed due to transplants etc. you will literally end up with a fractioned society like we did with 'white' and 'coloured' bars, workplaces and access to services once private businesses start this, considering most gov sectors are now outsourced they with follow, literally no access anywhere. just look to African countries to see what that does. except this will become vax'd bars vs non vax'd, it has happened so many times o=in history yet we still haven't learned this lesson. Division is not the answer...it only leads down one road to civil unrest and wars. and before anyone start with the 'well you shouldn't be given treatment for refusing a vaccine, May I remind you this body is THE only vessel with you for life, if it goes so do you therefore what you put in it, how you treat it and care for it is down to personal choice. There are many whom made their conditions worse if not fatal by being victims of bad personal choice on the body front that. Age, weight and other medical conditions (mostly alzimers & dementia) were the largest factors. All 3 also have affected mindsets which if you study the brain you'll know willpower is mighty as is placebo. Maybe we should all take the personal choice to care for these vessels for life and to understand that there are serious consequences if you don't. How many were petrified due to the level of media coverage on stats we DO NOT usually hear on a daily basis....thousands have always died daily in UK, that grows as the population grows and ages, we just didn't have it in our faces hourly. for instance over this whole pandemic we know lots of people have died and these are a family member to someone (that is unavoidable) yet 0.15% of population is a lot easier on the mind that 100k. Truth is we'll never know how much the fear affected peoples ability to fight off the virus. (there's proof of this in cancer patients and other serious illness, a determination to defy death). the other is how we perceive death itself that has changed over the past century with spiritual beliefs falling from peoples lives. There's a lot to be said psychology wise as to how this narrative has been told over a virus with over 99% survival rate. This virus and how people/govs etc responded has certainly evoked the biggest psychological and social experiment in human history and we are all a part of it, like it or not. yeah my brains wired this morn soz. basically society is far to complex and consequences to great to allow it into society." Makes a refreshing change to see sense talked in here, I agree with most of what you say | |||
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"Its the start of an id card in britain again. even a voluntary system could become compulsory. Being required to carry ID cards at all times and show them to the authorities on demand is not a very British tradition The plastic wallet cards were the size of a credit card and showed the holder’s photograph or pass hologram, name, date of birth, nationality and immigration status. A secure electronic chip held their biometric details, including fingerprints, and a digital facial image. The private sector wants to do lots of things, but often wants to do it to kind of get market share, get access to consumer data. He adds that the involvement of the private sector would raise concerns about access to data and how much information should be stored. The government’s publication this week said many of the ideas it has heard about digital IDs have come from the private sector and not enough public engagement has happened." The National Identity Card that was starting to roll out on a VOLUNTARY basis in 2010 (before being cancelled by the new coalition govt - literally their first piece of legislation) held far less information than the private sector already held at the time. Tesco Clubcard knew more about you! | |||
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"The National Identity Card that was starting to roll out on a VOLUNTARY basis in 2010 (before being cancelled by the new coalition govt - literally their first piece of legislation) held far less information than the private sector already held at the time. Tesco Clubcard knew more about you!" it wasnt cancelled as its gov.verify it was also reintroduced in 2018 you will find it under the regester post Privacy, security fears about ID cards? UK.gov's digital bod has one simple solution: 'Get over it' another place is wired No, Dominic Cummings isn't plotting to bring back ID cards im not allowed to link the pages but the page details will take you there | |||
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"The National Identity Card that was starting to roll out on a VOLUNTARY basis in 2010 (before being cancelled by the new coalition govt - literally their first piece of legislation) held far less information than the private sector already held at the time. Tesco Clubcard knew more about you! it wasnt cancelled as its gov.verify it was also reintroduced in 2018 you will find it under the regester post Privacy, security fears about ID cards? UK.gov's digital bod has one simple solution: 'Get over it' another place is wired No, Dominic Cummings isn't plotting to bring back ID cards im not allowed to link the pages but the page details will take you there" It WAS cancelled BUT you are quite correct that GOV.UK Verify was built on existing tech and policy etc. Basically it was revived in a different form and evolved. | |||
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"It’s most likely if it happens be inclusive on the nhs app. Genuine question. Do you really think putting something as significant would have credibility with NHS branding on it? I mean the nhs does and has done some amazing things but is also woefully inept at some other things. Getting the administration of peoples details such as correct name spelling, address, appointment times etc correct being one of those, sending letters, texts etc. The “NHS” is increasingly a “brand” and is certainly now an almost completely decentralised federation of separate health trusts with local autonomy. It is one of the ways it has been increasingly privatised by stealth over the years (check the small print in MANY of the services you may receive purporting to be the “NHS”. The track and trace app being a perfect example. The media and govt called it “NHS Track & Trace” but have a look at who developed the actual app then look at which companies are running (for a very substantial fee) the non digital aspects. Anyway - back on topic. Note this morning old Johnson has backtracked, again! Now saying no vax passport/proof for pubs, bars and restaurants. Only for larger crowds such as cinema, theatre, sporting events. I can see a statistical logic at play there. If (big IF) that becomes the de-facto position I have to ask all those above who claimed they would not go to a pub/restaurant that did not have vax proof requirement = “what you gonna do now?”" Adapt? | |||
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"The National Identity Card that was starting to roll out on a VOLUNTARY basis in 2010 (before being cancelled by the new coalition govt - literally their first piece of legislation) held far less information than the private sector already held at the time. Tesco Clubcard knew more about you! it wasnt cancelled as its gov.verify it was also reintroduced in 2018 you will find it under the regester post Privacy, security fears about ID cards? UK.gov's digital bod has one simple solution: 'Get over it' another place is wired No, Dominic Cummings isn't plotting to bring back ID cards im not allowed to link the pages but the page details will take you there" What's the issue with carrying Id with you? I'm mystified. I could understand it if nobody had a phone or credit card or membership card or driving license or passport or amazon account or Spotify or points card. I could understand it if we were the first country to demand Id. I could also understand it if there was any legal advantage to not carrying I'd with you. None of which are true. Either we carry it or tech will be invented that takes it out of our hand. As a corollary, what do people do when they travel to countries that demand you carry Id with you at all times? | |||
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"Btw, I have a UK national ID card. Foreign resident. Lol I'm quite sure that could be rolled out. Maybe a less intrusive version than I've lived with for the last decade "To steal a saying from a long time ago: Flipping Aussies, oversexed, overpaid and over here   | |||
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"Btw, I have a UK national ID card. Foreign resident. Lol I'm quite sure that could be rolled out. Maybe a less intrusive version than I've lived with for the last decade
To steal a saying from a long time ago:
Flipping Aussies, oversexed, overpaid and over here " | |||
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"Tbh I don't always carry my ID card with me, but my bank cards etc identify me. And if I was asked by the police or the authorities for my ID, I'm legally required to provide it. (I just trust that they'd let me go home to get it. I don't carry it around because I don't want it nicked, that shit was expensive)" to be honest providing your id to the police isnt worth nothing. On a police stop they dont have the tech within the vehicle to show a photo license on there system within the car They certainly wont have it via a walk about officer. If someone gives your name falesly you can be arrested for not showing in court. Ive been there it was interesting in not only proving I wasnt in the area, but for the arresting officer to state I was not the person. | |||
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"Tbh I don't always carry my ID card with me, but my bank cards etc identify me. And if I was asked by the police or the authorities for my ID, I'm legally required to provide it. (I just trust that they'd let me go home to get it. I don't carry it around because I don't want it nicked, that shit was expensive) to be honest providing your id to the police isnt worth nothing. On a police stop they dont have the tech within the vehicle to show a photo license on there system within the car They certainly wont have it via a walk about officer. If someone gives your name falesly you can be arrested for not showing in court. Ive been there it was interesting in not only proving I wasnt in the area, but for the arresting officer to state I was not the person." If I don't show my ID when requested I can (theoretically) have my indefinite residence revoked and get my arse deported. If my name was provided falsely I'd get a lawyer. I don't see how people committing fraud has anything to do with the fact that I have an ID card which is way worse than anything being thought up for UK nationals. | |||
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"Vaccine passports to go into a restaurant, theatre etc will never happen. They are unworkable and more importantly they would be discriminatory. If challenged in a court of law no judge would rule it as lawful. The only vaccine proof that could be required is to enter another country which will definitely happen but totally understandble. They will I think happen Put it like this my family won't be visiting anywhere to eat or drink until we know everyone in the same building has been tested safe I'm pretty sure most people will be thinking the same.. Because getting Covid will mean 10 days self isolation unpaid.. And no one wants to lose anymore money So I think testing in all pubs and restaurants will eventually come into force for that reason " This is a problem which should be rectified by creating better conditions when staff are sick i.e. work from home & better ssp, get rid of the use of S/E status via deliveroo etc (in progress via courts) and the zero hours contracts so that workers can stay at home when sick like we always should have. We should not be giving away freedoms and rights because businesses want to mistreat staff! | |||
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"I always said I would support venues with vaccine passports if they applied. Pubs and restaurants are not compulsory or a requirement for life, and I will hang back until I feel the situation is safer." They actually are as they form part of the 'community' withi. The local area and in rural areas are the main meeting places. So they are essential to day to day living. Which every one has a right to access. I am surprise at and with anyone that supports discrimination in society. Large events are quite obvious to the risks, however these should be domestic only atm & risks get lower with every passing day that another is vax'd and less cases reported. | |||
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"I always said I would support venues with vaccine passports if they applied. Pubs and restaurants are not compulsory or a requirement for life, and I will hang back until I feel the situation is safer. They actually are as they form part of the 'community' withi. The local area and in rural areas are the main meeting places. So they are essential to day to day living. Which every one has a right to access. I am surprise at and with anyone that supports discrimination in society. Large events are quite obvious to the risks, however these should be domestic only atm & risks get lower with every passing day that another is vax'd and less cases reported. " I was asked what I would do. It is what I will do - I'll stay away from places where the unvaccinated might congregate. That is my choice and right. The idea that pubs and restaurants are required to live is utterly ludicrous. | |||
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"Tbh I don't always carry my ID card with me, but my bank cards etc identify me. And if I was asked by the police or the authorities for my ID, I'm legally required to provide it. (I just trust that they'd let me go home to get it. I don't carry it around because I don't want it nicked, that shit was expensive) to be honest providing your id to the police isnt worth nothing. On a police stop they dont have the tech within the vehicle to show a photo license on there system within the car They certainly wont have it via a walk about officer. If someone gives your name falesly you can be arrested for not showing in court. Ive been there it was interesting in not only proving I wasnt in the area, but for the arresting officer to state I was not the person. If I don't show my ID when requested I can (theoretically) have my indefinite residence revoked and get my arse deported. If my name was provided falsely I'd get a lawyer. I don't see how people committing fraud has anything to do with the fact that I have an ID card which is way worse than anything being thought up for UK nationals." We already have id in the form of passports, drivers licences & birth certificates, domestic peoples do not need more ID. Most people get one of the other by 18 just for age ID. There is absolutely no need for more, We already have it. You are different as none of your records are held in UK due to being a foreign resident therefore not easily accessed by authorities for means of ID, your passport isnt UK, nor your birth cert & you might not drive so that is why customs give those & is same if a uk resident was to move elsewhere. You are not required to show it to members of the public to access services though, police are a different mater you are legally obliged to give your name & dob. That is all the info you legally need to give though anything else can & will be used against you. I'm 2nd gen so i know the score on those, at one point leaving the country may have meant customs not letting my mum back in as they were randomly revoking right to abode with no restrictions even to those from common wealth countries, not dissimilar to wind rush but not on same scale & they could do that to me if they choose or what has happened to the ex isis bride. So i understand the issues with dual or foreign. This covid passport is different it is for access to areas that are 1. Domestic, part of day to day life & 2. Invades most human rights, of which ALL are entitled to. No one has a right to 0 risk in life as it is impossible to achieve. Covid risk is & always was only a 1% risk to life. That's pretty damn good stats tbh & with the vaccine that risk is now less than 1%. | |||
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"I always said I would support venues with vaccine passports if they applied. Pubs and restaurants are not compulsory or a requirement for life, and I will hang back until I feel the situation is safer. They actually are as they form part of the 'community' withi. The local area and in rural areas are the main meeting places. So they are essential to day to day living. Which every one has a right to access. I am surprise at and with anyone that supports discrimination in society. Large events are quite obvious to the risks, however these should be domestic only atm & risks get lower with every passing day that another is vax'd and less cases reported. " Pubs are so essential for day to day living that over the five years before covid, they were closing down permanently at an average rate of two a day... | |||
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"Tbh I don't always carry my ID card with me, but my bank cards etc identify me. And if I was asked by the police or the authorities for my ID, I'm legally required to provide it. (I just trust that they'd let me go home to get it. I don't carry it around because I don't want it nicked, that shit was expensive) to be honest providing your id to the police isnt worth nothing. On a police stop they dont have the tech within the vehicle to show a photo license on there system within the car They certainly wont have it via a walk about officer. If someone gives your name falesly you can be arrested for not showing in court. Ive been there it was interesting in not only proving I wasnt in the area, but for the arresting officer to state I was not the person. If I don't show my ID when requested I can (theoretically) have my indefinite residence revoked and get my arse deported. If my name was provided falsely I'd get a lawyer. I don't see how people committing fraud has anything to do with the fact that I have an ID card which is way worse than anything being thought up for UK nationals. We already have id in the form of passports, drivers licences & birth certificates, domestic peoples do not need more ID. Most people get one of the other by 18 just for age ID. There is absolutely no need for more, We already have it. You are different as none of your records are held in UK due to being a foreign resident therefore not easily accessed by authorities for means of ID, your passport isnt UK, nor your birth cert & you might not drive so that is why customs give those & is same if a uk resident was to move elsewhere. You are not required to show it to members of the public to access services though, police are a different mater you are legally obliged to give your name & dob. That is all the info you legally need to give though anything else can & will be used against you. I'm 2nd gen so i know the score on those, at one point leaving the country may have meant customs not letting my mum back in as they were randomly revoking right to abode with no restrictions even to those from common wealth countries, not dissimilar to wind rush but not on same scale & they could do that to me if they choose or what has happened to the ex isis bride. So i understand the issues with dual or foreign. This covid passport is different it is for access to areas that are 1. Domestic, part of day to day life & 2. Invades most human rights, of which ALL are entitled to. No one has a right to 0 risk in life as it is impossible to achieve. Covid risk is & always was only a 1% risk to life. That's pretty damn good stats tbh & with the vaccine that risk is now less than 1%. " I am utterly unfazed by vaccine passports. They'll be less invasive than what I have and what most people have, including citizens. | |||
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"I always said I would support venues with vaccine passports if they applied. Pubs and restaurants are not compulsory or a requirement for life, and I will hang back until I feel the situation is safer. They actually are as they form part of the 'community' withi. The local area and in rural areas are the main meeting places. So they are essential to day to day living. Which every one has a right to access. I am surprise at and with anyone that supports discrimination in society. Large events are quite obvious to the risks, however these should be domestic only atm & risks get lower with every passing day that another is vax'd and less cases reported. I was asked what I would do. It is what I will do - I'll stay away from places where the unvaccinated might congregate. That is my choice and right. The idea that pubs and restaurants are required to live is utterly ludicrous." It is your right, it is not your right however to impose those restrictions on others. I take it you have never lived in a rural area, where the there is no cinema, no nightclubs etc the only things there are the pubs & restaurants most are a 2in1, these are the only places for local to go & meet indoors that are not private residences so yes they are essential to social life & day to day life. Both of which are important to access for mental health purposes as we are social creatures. Even those of us who claim to be fine in our own company are seeking out that company either online or within escapism i.e books. No one can spend 100% of their time alone, they literally go mad as a result! This has been shown several hundred times with social animals, typically apes & chimps & even horses that they get depressed, psyhically ill and often commit suicide (a horse smashes its head against a wall if your wondering) as a result of the sepration. It is the same in humans, those who commit suicide lack the connections to others i.e the tribe & feel that its not worth being here. Even those who say being alone in a room full of people are displaying the lack of ability to connect mentally to others (for whatever reason) We currently are trying to omit that humans need other humans to survive & thrive, its the core of us. There had & always will be a risk of viruses etc but rarely does it wipe out entire species without other additional factors involved. | |||
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"I always said I would support venues with vaccine passports if they applied. Pubs and restaurants are not compulsory or a requirement for life, and I will hang back until I feel the situation is safer. They actually are as they form part of the 'community' withi. The local area and in rural areas are the main meeting places. So they are essential to day to day living. Which every one has a right to access. I am surprise at and with anyone that supports discrimination in society. Large events are quite obvious to the risks, however these should be domestic only atm & risks get lower with every passing day that another is vax'd and less cases reported. I was asked what I would do. It is what I will do - I'll stay away from places where the unvaccinated might congregate. That is my choice and right. The idea that pubs and restaurants are required to live is utterly ludicrous. It is your right, it is not your right however to impose those restrictions on others. I take it you have never lived in a rural area, where the there is no cinema, no nightclubs etc the only things there are the pubs & restaurants most are a 2in1, these are the only places for local to go & meet indoors that are not private residences so yes they are essential to social life & day to day life. Both of which are important to access for mental health purposes as we are social creatures. Even those of us who claim to be fine in our own company are seeking out that company either online or within escapism i.e books. No one can spend 100% of their time alone, they literally go mad as a result! This has been shown several hundred times with social animals, typically apes & chimps & even horses that they get depressed, psyhically ill and often commit suicide (a horse smashes its head against a wall if your wondering) as a result of the sepration. It is the same in humans, those who commit suicide lack the connections to others i.e the tribe & feel that its not worth being here. Even those who say being alone in a room full of people are displaying the lack of ability to connect mentally to others (for whatever reason) We currently are trying to omit that humans need other humans to survive & thrive, its the core of us. There had & always will be a risk of viruses etc but rarely does it wipe out entire species without other additional factors involved. " Agreed and you forgot to mention the pub landlords who still need to earn a living to pay bills so debt doesn't add to the solitary worries | |||
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"Tbh I don't always carry my ID card with me, but my bank cards etc identify me. And if I was asked by the police or the authorities for my ID, I'm legally required to provide it. (I just trust that they'd let me go home to get it. I don't carry it around because I don't want it nicked, that shit was expensive) to be honest providing your id to the police isnt worth nothing. On a police stop they dont have the tech within the vehicle to show a photo license on there system within the car They certainly wont have it via a walk about officer. If someone gives your name falesly you can be arrested for not showing in court. Ive been there it was interesting in not only proving I wasnt in the area, but for the arresting officer to state I was not the person. If I don't show my ID when requested I can (theoretically) have my indefinite residence revoked and get my arse deported. If my name was provided falsely I'd get a lawyer. I don't see how people committing fraud has anything to do with the fact that I have an ID card which is way worse than anything being thought up for UK nationals. We already have id in the form of passports, drivers licences & birth certificates, domestic peoples do not need more ID. Most people get one of the other by 18 just for age ID. There is absolutely no need for more, We already have it. You are different as none of your records are held in UK due to being a foreign resident therefore not easily accessed by authorities for means of ID, your passport isnt UK, nor your birth cert & you might not drive so that is why customs give those & is same if a uk resident was to move elsewhere. You are not required to show it to members of the public to access services though, police are a different mater you are legally obliged to give your name & dob. That is all the info you legally need to give though anything else can & will be used against you. I'm 2nd gen so i know the score on those, at one point leaving the country may have meant customs not letting my mum back in as they were randomly revoking right to abode with no restrictions even to those from common wealth countries, not dissimilar to wind rush but not on same scale & they could do that to me if they choose or what has happened to the ex isis bride. So i understand the issues with dual or foreign. This covid passport is different it is for access to areas that are 1. Domestic, part of day to day life & 2. Invades most human rights, of which ALL are entitled to. No one has a right to 0 risk in life as it is impossible to achieve. Covid risk is & always was only a 1% risk to life. That's pretty damn good stats tbh & with the vaccine that risk is now less than 1%. I am utterly unfazed by vaccine passports. They'll be less invasive than what I have and what most people have, including citizens." None of the current id forms have anything medical on them (they may have a code but to an untrained eye i.e member of public, they wouldn't know what it meant i.e. your drivers licence, only police, insurance & dvla know or need to know and that only applies if it affects your ability to drive. They have tried this with likes of autism & adhd claiming they are riskier drivers but due to dvla having own test to prove otherwise i.e. driving test = safe to drive it cannot be made mandatory to declare as most pass with the condition & it causes discrimination from private insurance companies automatically charging more rather than on a case by case basis. | |||
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"Probably cause on all other threads you have made an issue because individuals want to go out with friends and have a drink " I do, because such a position is fact free and self absorbed. That does not make my decision to avoid the unvaccinated and places they might congregate discrimination. | |||
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"Probably cause on all other threads you have made an issue because individuals want to go out with friends and have a drink I do, because such a position is fact free and self absorbed. That does not make my decision to avoid the unvaccinated and places they might congregate discrimination." Totally agree with u but it also doesn't give you the right to say people who want an end to this are Selfish and unethical | |||
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"Tbh I don't always carry my ID card with me, but my bank cards etc identify me. And if I was asked by the police or the authorities for my ID, I'm legally required to provide it. (I just trust that they'd let me go home to get it. I don't carry it around because I don't want it nicked, that shit was expensive) to be honest providing your id to the police isnt worth nothing. On a police stop they dont have the tech within the vehicle to show a photo license on there system within the car They certainly wont have it via a walk about officer. If someone gives your name falesly you can be arrested for not showing in court. Ive been there it was interesting in not only proving I wasnt in the area, but for the arresting officer to state I was not the person. If I don't show my ID when requested I can (theoretically) have my indefinite residence revoked and get my arse deported. If my name was provided falsely I'd get a lawyer. I don't see how people committing fraud has anything to do with the fact that I have an ID card which is way worse than anything being thought up for UK nationals. We already have id in the form of passports, drivers licences & birth certificates, domestic peoples do not need more ID. Most people get one of the other by 18 just for age ID. There is absolutely no need for more, We already have it. You are different as none of your records are held in UK due to being a foreign resident therefore not easily accessed by authorities for means of ID, your passport isnt UK, nor your birth cert & you might not drive so that is why customs give those & is same if a uk resident was to move elsewhere. You are not required to show it to members of the public to access services though, police are a different mater you are legally obliged to give your name & dob. That is all the info you legally need to give though anything else can & will be used against you. I'm 2nd gen so i know the score on those, at one point leaving the country may have meant customs not letting my mum back in as they were randomly revoking right to abode with no restrictions even to those from common wealth countries, not dissimilar to wind rush but not on same scale & they could do that to me if they choose or what has happened to the ex isis bride. So i understand the issues with dual or foreign. This covid passport is different it is for access to areas that are 1. Domestic, part of day to day life & 2. Invades most human rights, of which ALL are entitled to. No one has a right to 0 risk in life as it is impossible to achieve. Covid risk is & always was only a 1% risk to life. That's pretty damn good stats tbh & with the vaccine that risk is now less than 1%. I am utterly unfazed by vaccine passports. They'll be less invasive than what I have and what most people have, including citizens. None of the current id forms have anything medical on them (they may have a code but to an untrained eye i.e member of public, they wouldn't know what it meant i.e. your drivers licence, only police, insurance & dvla know or need to know and that only applies if it affects your ability to drive. They have tried this with likes of autism & adhd claiming they are riskier drivers but due to dvla having own test to prove otherwise i.e. driving test = safe to drive it cannot be made mandatory to declare as most pass with the condition & it causes discrimination from private insurance companies automatically charging more rather than on a case by case basis. " I'm utterly unfazed. | |||
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"Probably cause on all other threads you have made an issue because individuals want to go out with friends and have a drink I do, because such a position is fact free and self absorbed. That does not make my decision to avoid the unvaccinated and places they might congregate discrimination. Totally agree with u but it also doesn't give you the right to say people who want an end to this are Selfish and unethical " How many drinky-poos is a life worth? Or, how many jolly hols justify an outbreak of a new variant? | |||
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"Probably cause on all other threads you have made an issue because individuals want to go out with friends and have a drink I do, because such a position is fact free and self absorbed. That does not make my decision to avoid the unvaccinated and places they might congregate discrimination. Totally agree with u but it also doesn't give you the right to say people who want an end to this are Selfish and unethical How many drinky-poos is a life worth? Or, how many jolly hols justify an outbreak of a new variant?" Like I've said before I don't drink but I would like to go out for a meal with family or go to cinema or take a holiday I've adhered to the rules throughout this I've remained working during all this so why shouldn't I and others like me want to go back to having a life I've been vaccinated early because of health issues but I've never once missed work even when colleagues were coming down with covid What's saying I can't catch it tomorrow and die from it I'd of lived a great life It's time now to start reopening and trying to get back to some normality | |||
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"Probably cause on all other threads you have made an issue because individuals want to go out with friends and have a drink I do, because such a position is fact free and self absorbed. That does not make my decision to avoid the unvaccinated and places they might congregate discrimination. Totally agree with u but it also doesn't give you the right to say people who want an end to this are Selfish and unethical How many drinky-poos is a life worth? Or, how many jolly hols justify an outbreak of a new variant? Like I've said before I don't drink but I would like to go out for a meal with family or go to cinema or take a holiday I've adhered to the rules throughout this I've remained working during all this so why shouldn't I and others like me want to go back to having a life I've been vaccinated early because of health issues but I've never once missed work even when colleagues were coming down with covid What's saying I can't catch it tomorrow and die from it I'd of lived a great life It's time now to start reopening and trying to get back to some normality " If you have data to support that without another huge outbreak and more economic destruction, then present it to the government. If not, obeying the restrictions is the best and fastest way to get out of this. Even if you're sick of it. Despite your belief, I am enormously sick of it. But I want to minimise the devastation and I am doing my bit. | |||
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"Please explain _eoeclipse. I was asked what I would do, now vaccine passports are not looking likely for pubs. I would avoid those places until I feel the situation is under control. I would stay at home if I lived in central London or the outer Hebrides. I did not say "and apply these restrictions". Please explain why you're riffing on discrimination, when I am asserting my right to do as I please with my leisure time." You said further up the thread you wouldnt visit places that hosted unvax'd people, which yes you are right to do & you can excude yourself if you like, however you are speaking in a fearful manner which implies along with other comments that you would rather everyone was monitored in every aspect of life & discriminated against out of your fear. Not just you btw, lots of folk have been caught up the in the very psychologically aimed media driven fear & i don't blame you, but we need to recify that before it strips everything right, freedom & liberty leaving behind a worldwide dictatorship in its wake. There are many who also see the big long term heading of this unless it is stopped now. It does comes across to me as if you current thinking is "all humans would kill you upon contact" & that just is not the case even with covid. There is much more harm caused by isolation, so many studies into how even being around family, helps the immune system, improves quality of life and keeps brain/will power healthier for longer. I do go off in speals to explain/give background to where my thinking lies in relation to the comment which is why the other areas are brought up. It an response to the comment, not an attack, i get i sometimes come across as stern/blunt its just my method of typing, to the point i always got given the Germans to deal with in work as i'm as blunt as them & don't see it as rude or mean. | |||
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"Please explain _eoeclipse. I was asked what I would do, now vaccine passports are not looking likely for pubs. I would avoid those places until I feel the situation is under control. I would stay at home if I lived in central London or the outer Hebrides. I did not say "and apply these restrictions". Please explain why you're riffing on discrimination, when I am asserting my right to do as I please with my leisure time. You said further up the thread you wouldnt visit places that hosted unvax'd people, which yes you are right to do & you can excude yourself if you like, however you are speaking in a fearful manner which implies along with other comments that you would rather everyone was monitored in every aspect of life & discriminated against out of your fear. Not just you btw, lots of folk have been caught up the in the very psychologically aimed media driven fear & i don't blame you, but we need to recify that before it strips everything right, freedom & liberty leaving behind a worldwide dictatorship in its wake. There are many who also see the big long term heading of this unless it is stopped now. It does comes across to me as if you current thinking is "all humans would kill you upon contact" & that just is not the case even with covid. There is much more harm caused by isolation, so many studies into how even being around family, helps the immune system, improves quality of life and keeps brain/will power healthier for longer. I do go off in speals to explain/give background to where my thinking lies in relation to the comment which is why the other areas are brought up. It an response to the comment, not an attack, i get i sometimes come across as stern/blunt its just my method of typing, to the point i always got given the Germans to deal with in work as i'm as blunt as them & don't see it as rude or mean. " Nope. I will not go to those places. You believe I'm afraid. I am not. You believe I would discriminate out of fear. Fear I do not have. Please explain how my personal risk assessment and personal sense of responsibility leads in any way shape or form to any discrimination. I have my views to which I'm entitled. Me not going to the pub does not hinder your views or choices in any way. | |||
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"Please explain _eoeclipse. I was asked what I would do, now vaccine passports are not looking likely for pubs. I would avoid those places until I feel the situation is under control. I would stay at home if I lived in central London or the outer Hebrides. I did not say "and apply these restrictions". Please explain why you're riffing on discrimination, when I am asserting my right to do as I please with my leisure time. You said further up the thread you wouldnt visit places that hosted unvax'd people, which yes you are right to do & you can excude yourself if you like, however you are speaking in a fearful manner which implies along with other comments that you would rather everyone was monitored in every aspect of life & discriminated against out of your fear. Not just you btw, lots of folk have been caught up the in the very psychologically aimed media driven fear & i don't blame you, but we need to recify that before it strips everything right, freedom & liberty leaving behind a worldwide dictatorship in its wake. There are many who also see the big long term heading of this unless it is stopped now. It does comes across to me as if you current thinking is "all humans would kill you upon contact" & that just is not the case even with covid. There is much more harm caused by isolation, so many studies into how even being around family, helps the immune system, improves quality of life and keeps brain/will power healthier for longer. I do go off in speals to explain/give background to where my thinking lies in relation to the comment which is why the other areas are brought up. It an response to the comment, not an attack, i get i sometimes come across as stern/blunt its just my method of typing, to the point i always got given the Germans to deal with in work as i'm as blunt as them & don't see it as rude or mean. Nope. I will not go to those places. You believe I'm afraid. I am not. You believe I would discriminate out of fear. Fear I do not have. Please explain how my personal risk assessment and personal sense of responsibility leads in any way shape or form to any discrimination. I have my views to which I'm entitled. Me not going to the pub does not hinder your views or choices in any way." maybe not but to suggest a passport for everyone else because in your own words 'won't until you deem it safe' how can you say its not fear when you use the terms 'until it's safe', that instantly implies there is a fear of something there usually of death which as we know in most cases doesn't occur, a possibility it always is with everything. Pretty much the same as a 'beware of the dog' sign implies that the dog is dangerous. you also rip through the threads taking the absolute piss out of folks comments and making them out as if they are thick by using silly analogies. Pretty much every time someone mentions that we cannot be 100% safe. I could go up the thread and others, dig out every bit that implies you would be happy for others to be forced to make you and others with your line of thinking to feel safe and the times you've called people selfish and irresponsible for just about everything which is nothing less than just human behaviour. bear in mind you don't have to be in the country (by your own admission), you choose to live here, others didn't, they were born here and don't have dual or the ability to leave to another land if they don't like it (financial etc) unless they want to go down the asylum route, which currently these are not good enough reason to claim asylum on (YET). | |||
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"Probably cause on all other threads you have made an issue because individuals want to go out with friends and have a drink I do, because such a position is fact free and self absorbed. That does not make my decision to avoid the unvaccinated and places they might congregate discrimination. Totally agree with u but it also doesn't give you the right to say people who want an end to this are Selfish and unethical How many drinky-poos is a life worth? Or, how many jolly hols justify an outbreak of a new variant? Like I've said before I don't drink but I would like to go out for a meal with family or go to cinema or take a holiday I've adhered to the rules throughout this I've remained working during all this so why shouldn't I and others like me want to go back to having a life I've been vaccinated early because of health issues but I've never once missed work even when colleagues were coming down with covid What's saying I can't catch it tomorrow and die from it I'd of lived a great life It's time now to start reopening and trying to get back to some normality " —------- I get what you think you have managed to do /achieve during pandemic.. The thing is.. Others haven't managed as well as you seem to have Quite a few haven't been vaccinated Lots have lost friends and family Some are really struggling with other things just to keep going with the uncertainty of what's coming more than anything else Most people are chucking everything under the horse and trusting the government slow unlocking plans.. May work may not.. That will include checks and balances of a sorts.. And people are kind of just letting that process happen.. For the good of us all. Which.. Means you have to follow the same pattern and do what the rest of us are.. You don't get to pick or decide what you can do.. When so many others can't..it's called showing support and doing your bit. Most of us are in for the long haul.. Suggest you re find your seat and get on with it like the rest of us.. | |||
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"I am amazed by how this thread has gone off on a tangent, reading some of the later entries, they don't seem to have anything to do with the initial question. Just my opinion, that's all." True but that is what makes conversations and debates more interesting. Otherwise most threads would be dead after a dozen posts! I just wish people behaved better on social media. It really does drive behaviour that would not happen if we were all face-to-face. | |||
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"£400 for a test? I don't know anyone that has payed a single penny." It’s not just the cost of a test though is it? There will be extra checks that travel companies/ airlines have to carry out/ extra cleaning on planes in airports and hotels, potentially less passengers to allow for distancing etc etc. The cost of holidays is going to increase massively like it or not. | |||
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"£400 for a test? I don't know anyone that has payed a single penny. It’s not just the cost of a test though is it? There will be extra checks that travel companies/ airlines have to carry out/ extra cleaning on planes in airports and hotels, potentially less passengers to allow for distancing etc etc. The cost of holidays is going to increase massively like it or not. " | |||
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