FabSwingers.com > Forums > Virus > No jab=No pub
No jab=No pub
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Lu 
(Stupid idea tho imo. You can't force people to put things in their body. And no...im not an anti-vaxer) | |||
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"What do peeps think?" Stupid | |||
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"I will piss people off but I agree....but you can't implement that rule until most have had the jab" What about those who can't have it? For health reasons. Or those who have too much anxiety over putting something into their body without any knowledge of the long term side effects? They never get to go to the pub again? Lu | |||
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"Put it in the virus forum
Lu
(Stupid idea tho imo. You can't force people to put things in their body. And no...im not an anti-vaxer)"I agree with both parts Wrong forum And can't force people to vaccinate. But choosing to not get vaccinated could include consequences, such as not being allowed to join an indoor social gathering, such as a pub. Beer is not a human right. | |||
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"Put it in the virus forum
Lu
(Stupid idea tho imo. You can't force people to put things in their body. And no...im not an anti-vaxer)
I agree with both parts
Wrong forum
And can't force people to vaccinate.
But choosing to not get vaccinated could include consequences, such as not being allowed to join an indoor social gathering, such as a pub. Beer is not a human right."Beer isn't. But is being able to socialise with your friends? Would there be pubs for the "unvaccinated"? | |||
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"The government will do a u turn. It is not enforceable. Given that most people who frequent pubs are between 20-40’s, there would be no point pubs re opening if there was an attempt to implement this. Stupid idea."
This. | |||
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"The government will do a u turn. It is not enforceable. Given that most people who frequent pubs are between 20-40’s, there would be no point pubs re opening if there was an attempt to implement this. Stupid idea.
This."Why would the government need too do a U turn on something that isn’t government policy. Boris was asked a question about vac passports and answered that as far as pubs were concerned it would be up to landlords who they let in their pubs. Pretty much like it always has been. Or has there been an announcement since that I missed. If so disregard the above. | |||
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"How will this be executed? Will they need more staff to do checks? Logistics might be too difficult to pull off ? " I'm not gonna express a pro or anti view but listening to a lot of comment from pub workers etc this morning there's no practical way this is going to happen, not worth worrying about. | |||
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"What do peeps think?" Don't go to pubs or clubs but it's reassuring to know I've had my 1st jab and second one is coming up in a few days! Doing my bit to help the spread | |||
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"The government will do a u turn. It is not enforceable. Given that most people who frequent pubs are between 20-40’s, there would be no point pubs re opening if there was an attempt to implement this. Stupid idea.
This.
Why would the government need too do a U turn on something that isn’t government policy.
Boris was asked a question about vac passports and answered that as far as pubs were concerned it would be up to landlords who they let in their pubs.
Pretty much like it always has been.
Or has there been an announcement since that I missed. If so disregard the above. "Someone understands.
Some in the hospitality sector are for it, many are against it.
And I'm sure that the hospitality sector isn't going to cut off the majority of the under 40s! | |||
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"A lot of people are missing a couple of crucial points: Firstly they are focussing on people's right not to be vaccinated which of course is valid - but - what about people who cannot be vaccinated? They don't have that choice. The other point is the vaccine itself. It 'merely' - we are told - strengthens the body's ability to survive Covid with the added 'bonus' of hopefully keeping people out of hospital. It does not stop people catching it. Does not stop people spreading it. Pub landlords are obviously - with headlines like "87,000 pints poured down drain" headlines doing the rounds - looking for an 'edge' to open and stay open. No one can blame them for that. However, in the 'rush' to re-open we are in danger of losing sight of the actual facts as I've outlined above. The elephant in the room in all of this is that a non-vaccinated person is no more a risk to other drinkers than a vaccinated. A point Prof Chris Witty keeps trying to make but the media don't pick up on it - cos its not 'controversial' enough and doesn't sell papers or clicks. We need to have the actual facts outlined clearly so everyone is informed. " I think facts were one of the first casualties of this pandemic | |||
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"A lot of people are missing a couple of crucial points: Firstly they are focussing on people's right not to be vaccinated which of course is valid - but - what about people who cannot be vaccinated? They don't have that choice. The other point is the vaccine itself. It 'merely' - we are told - strengthens the body's ability to survive Covid with the added 'bonus' of hopefully keeping people out of hospital. It does not stop people catching it. Does not stop people spreading it. Pub landlords are obviously - with headlines like "87,000 pints poured down drain" headlines doing the rounds - looking for an 'edge' to open and stay open. No one can blame them for that. However, in the 'rush' to re-open we are in danger of losing sight of the actual facts as I've outlined above. The elephant in the room in all of this is that a non-vaccinated person is no more a risk to other drinkers than a vaccinated. A point Prof Chris Witty keeps trying to make but the media don't pick up on it - cos its not 'controversial' enough and doesn't sell papers or clicks. We need to have the actual facts outlined clearly so everyone is informed. I think facts were one of the first casualties of this pandemic" . Absolutely. This is the problem. Even BoJo's slurred waffle yesterday has been woefully misquoted. Mainly by the media to sell there story and conspiracy theorists in a "See? I bloody told ya!" rant! | |||
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"A lot of people are missing a couple of crucial points: Firstly they are focussing on people's right not to be vaccinated which of course is valid - but - what about people who cannot be vaccinated? They don't have that choice. The other point is the vaccine itself. It 'merely' - we are told - strengthens the body's ability to survive Covid with the added 'bonus' of hopefully keeping people out of hospital. It does not stop people catching it. Does not stop people spreading it. Pub landlords are obviously - with headlines like "87,000 pints poured down drain" headlines doing the rounds - looking for an 'edge' to open and stay open. No one can blame them for that. However, in the 'rush' to re-open we are in danger of losing sight of the actual facts as I've outlined above. The elephant in the room in all of this is that a non-vaccinated person is no more a risk to other drinkers than a vaccinated. A point Prof Chris Witty keeps trying to make but the media don't pick up on it - cos its not 'controversial' enough and doesn't sell papers or clicks. We need to have the actual facts outlined clearly so everyone is informed. I think facts were one of the first casualties of this pandemic . Absolutely. This is the problem. Even BoJo's slurred waffle yesterday has been woefully misquoted. Mainly by the media to sell there story and conspiracy theorists in a "See? I bloody told ya!" rant! " I'm not sure he was tbh He was asked if you need a vaccine passport to go the pub and he said it may be upto the landlord. So obviously the media are saying you may need one to go the pub. | |||
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"What do peeps think?" I can just see all those over 70 year olds rushing to the pub, as they will be the only ones with 2 jabs.... Not 2 jags... That was yesterday's thread. It's a good idea in theory. In practise never ever gonna work. We don't have the right demographic vaccinated. We don't behave as a society when we are prohibited from doing anything, we don't enforce anything, and we don't have a system that could operate it accurately. Not forgetting overseas tourists, visitors, travellers, the undocumented.. | |||
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"A lot of people are missing a couple of crucial points: Firstly they are focussing on people's right not to be vaccinated which of course is valid - but - what about people who cannot be vaccinated? They don't have that choice. The other point is the vaccine itself. It 'merely' - we are told - strengthens the body's ability to survive Covid with the added 'bonus' of hopefully keeping people out of hospital. It does not stop people catching it. Does not stop people spreading it. Pub landlords are obviously - with headlines like "87,000 pints poured down drain" headlines doing the rounds - looking for an 'edge' to open and stay open. No one can blame them for that. However, in the 'rush' to re-open we are in danger of losing sight of the actual facts as I've outlined above. The elephant in the room in all of this is that a non-vaccinated person is no more a risk to other drinkers than a vaccinated. A point Prof Chris Witty keeps trying to make but the media don't pick up on it - cos its not 'controversial' enough and doesn't sell papers or clicks. We need to have the actual facts outlined clearly so everyone is informed. I think facts were one of the first casualties of this pandemic . Absolutely. This is the problem. Even BoJo's slurred waffle yesterday has been woefully misquoted. Mainly by the media to sell there story and conspiracy theorists in a "See? I bloody told ya!" rant! I'm not sure he was tbh He was asked if you need a vaccine passport to go the pub and he said it may be upto the landlord. So obviously the media are saying you may need one to go the pub." The crucial word is 'MAY'. The press and some areas of social media have turned that into 'WILL'. This is what's causing the confusion. The good 'ol ambiguity of politicians eh? | |||
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"A lot of people are missing a couple of crucial points: Firstly they are focussing on people's right not to be vaccinated which of course is valid - but - what about people who cannot be vaccinated? They don't have that choice. The other point is the vaccine itself. It 'merely' - we are told - strengthens the body's ability to survive Covid with the added 'bonus' of hopefully keeping people out of hospital. It does not stop people catching it. Does not stop people spreading it. Pub landlords are obviously - with headlines like "87,000 pints poured down drain" headlines doing the rounds - looking for an 'edge' to open and stay open. No one can blame them for that. However, in the 'rush' to re-open we are in danger of losing sight of the actual facts as I've outlined above. The elephant in the room in all of this is that a non-vaccinated person is no more a risk to other drinkers than a vaccinated. A point Prof Chris Witty keeps trying to make but the media don't pick up on it - cos its not 'controversial' enough and doesn't sell papers or clicks. We need to have the actual facts outlined clearly so everyone is informed. I think facts were one of the first casualties of this pandemic . Absolutely. This is the problem. Even BoJo's slurred waffle yesterday has been woefully misquoted. Mainly by the media to sell there story and conspiracy theorists in a "See? I bloody told ya!" rant! I'm not sure he was tbh He was asked if you need a vaccine passport to go the pub and he said it may be upto the landlord. So obviously the media are saying you may need one to go the pub. The crucial word is 'MAY'. The press and some areas of social media have turned that into 'WILL'. This is what's causing the confusion. The good 'ol ambiguity of politicians eh? " But what do you expect them to do? That's exactly what he is saying? It seems to be one of those test the water type of situations. | |||
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"Are people going to avoid unvaccinated family members when the rule of six or two households mixing comes in? I will be seeing our son and daughter without any concerns. " Because others are having the jab so you can see your family | |||
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"Hmm, no overly d*unk and noisy 20 somethings in the pub. Yes, I think I could get behind that. " I appreciate its tongue in cheek. But let's not lose sight of the fact that generation are the ones who we will be asking to pay our pensions and look after us. That's the same generation who have been taken through brexit (no need to debate remain or leave), have had uni educations fucked up, have been locked down to save the elderly even though they are at very little risk themselves. Give em a break. If I was then I'd have my own pub and keep all the old fuckers like me out of it. | |||
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"Hmm, no overly d*unk and noisy 20 somethings in the pub. Yes, I think I could get behind that. I appreciate its tongue in cheek. But let's not lose sight of the fact that generation are the ones who we will be asking to pay our pensions and look after us. That's the same generation who have been taken through brexit (no need to debate remain or leave), have had uni educations fucked up, have been locked down to save the elderly even though they are at very little risk themselves. Give em a break. If I was then I'd have my own pub and keep all the old fuckers like me out of it. " We have all made sacrifices for the greater good. | |||
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"Put it in the virus forum
Lu
(Stupid idea tho imo. You can't force people to put things in their body. And no...im not an anti-vaxer)
I agree with both parts
Wrong forum
And can't force people to vaccinate.
But choosing to not get vaccinated could include consequences, such as not being allowed to join an indoor social gathering, such as a pub. Beer is not a human right."It is in bavaria | |||
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"I dunno. Can there be dirty pubs for all the poor souls yet to be jabbed but still gasping for a pint and a pork pie. I sense a division coming on "I think the division on this is that we are debating something that is hypothetical and nowhere near a policy and is a question posed by the op who with all due respect does not male policy . Rather like discussing should the sped limit on a motorway be dropped to 50mph...never gonna happen but good debate. | |||
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"Don't overcomplicate things, leave it up to individual landlords. Their pub, their rules." Is that not what the pm replied? | |||
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"What do peeps think?" I’d rather see those on benefits excluded from pubs and only those who have to fund them via the tax system allowed in. There’s a lot whinging about not being able to afford food for themselves or their kids but not cutting out non essential spending. How’s that for a controversial statement Lol | |||
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"What do peeps think? I’d rather see those on benefits excluded from pubs and only those who have to fund them via the tax system allowed in. There’s a lot whinging about not being able to afford food for themselves or their kids but not cutting out non essential spending. How’s that for a controversial statement Lol" wow. | |||
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"I don't care if people throw abuse my way, but until the pandemic clears up even more, and we are in a safe spot, this should be a regular thing for places of social gatherings. " What the safe spot ? | |||
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"Put it in the virus forum
Lu
(Stupid idea tho imo. You can't force people to put things in their body. And no...im not an anti-vaxer)"oh yess well done i am in full agreement as we suposed to live in a free counrty if they do it every one should boycot pubs | |||
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"Great idea in principle. However, I would change the rule a little bit. I would make it.. No proof of Covid positive.. So.. Testing results. Given a lot of people currently get tested twice a week its going to be fairly easy to have those results on an app? Kind of like another version of test and trace app? Could even modify it to work in a different way? Something maybe you can show or scan to get into the pub.. Double vaccination is great but we still need proof someone is Covid free.. And everyone can get tested quickly each week so there's no delay. Each week everyone needs to update their test results and if you fail you go self isolation..no pub, holiday, flights,work, cinema etc That way it will work.. And most of us can get back to Living a little bit like we used to Only people who would struggle would be those refusing to be tested.. And I can't see any justification for that at all. " Wawawa freedom Wawawa nazi commies Wawawa Boris | |||
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" Wawawa freedom Wawawa nazi commies Wawawa Boris " "I rely on societal infrastructure to keep me safe, but I refuse to participate in it. If you suggest I should help then you're Satan himself." | |||
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"Cannot happen till all groups are vsccinated,also pub staff young so this could be a while.Alao not all have smartphones in older age groups so very complicated. I think we are more likely to go down a road of restricted numbers and seating only as it is not workable. My own view is it is a great idea in principle but unworkable. Also need other forms of proof than an app same goes for flying on this one" I'm sure systems are possible, but it'd have to be centralised | |||
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"Cannot happen till all groups are vsccinated,also pub staff young so this could be a while.Alao not all have smartphones in older age groups so very complicated. I think we are more likely to go down a road of restricted numbers and seating only as it is not workable. My own view is it is a great idea in principle but unworkable. Also need other forms of proof than an app same goes for flying on this one I'm sure systems are possible, but it'd have to be centralised" Oh fuck... We don't have a good track record of that do we! Still I know a company that can.... | |||
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"Cannot happen till all groups are vsccinated,also pub staff young so this could be a while.Alao not all have smartphones in older age groups so very complicated. I think we are more likely to go down a road of restricted numbers and seating only as it is not workable. My own view is it is a great idea in principle but unworkable. Also need other forms of proof than an app same goes for flying on this one I'm sure systems are possible, but it'd have to be centralised Oh fuck... We don't have a good track record of that do we! Still I know a company that can.... " Lol | |||
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"Great idea in principle. However, I would change the rule a little bit. I would make it.. No proof of Covid positive.. So.. Testing results. Given a lot of people currently get tested twice a week its going to be fairly easy to have those results on an app? Kind of like another version of test and trace app? Could even modify it to work in a different way? Something maybe you can show or scan to get into the pub.. Double vaccination is great but we still need proof someone is Covid free.. And everyone can get tested quickly each week so there's no delay. Each week everyone needs to update their test results and if you fail you go self isolation..no pub, holiday, flights,work, cinema etc That way it will work.. And most of us can get back to Living a little bit like we used to Only people who would struggle would be those refusing to be tested.. And I can't see any justification for that at all. Wawawa freedom Wawawa nazi commies Wawawa Boris " Try reading the comment.. Before making silly noises.. Though to be fair those Re the noises Boris makes.. So you are at least right on one thing! | |||
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"How will this be executed? Will they need more staff to do checks? Logistics might be too difficult to pull off ? " They'll use the chip that's in the vaccine to monitor people  | |||
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"Not a chance. The pubs have been struggling and largely neglected financially over the past year, most of them are barely managing to stay afloat. They certainly won’t be turning customers away. Do you have money? Come on in." Actually I think you will be surprised | |||
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"Not a chance. The pubs have been struggling and largely neglected financially over the past year, most of them are barely managing to stay afloat. They certainly won’t be turning customers away. Do you have money? Come on in. Actually I think you will be surprised " It'll depend on public opinion, insurer demands, and a number of other things. I think it is doable in theory. | |||
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"How will this be executed? Will they need more staff to do checks? Logistics might be too difficult to pull off ? They'll use the chip that's in the vaccine to monitor people "If you hear a beep as you walk through suspicious looking barriers you'll know you're chip is activated. | |||
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"What will you show, a lttle hand written card, just print your own or buy one on facebook, there'll be hundreds for sale an hour after this rule was introduced. If you can't Police it, don't introduce it. "Money can be forged too. Online banking hacked. We should abolish money, it's not foolproof and systems have had to develop to minimise fraud  | |||
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"What do peeps think?" I think people are missing one vital piece of information. One that the MD of Shepherd Neame Brewery just highlighted in Radio 4 No Punters = No Profit As he says they want as many bums on seats as possible. Turning away customers after 12 months of impeded trade is the LAST thing the trade wants. | |||
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"Whilst it is not good to divide people even more into groups. I guess it just affects those that goes to the pubs, to have the jab or not." It won’t just be pubs though, it will spread through all aspects of life, you don’t need to be a drinker for this to affect you or your family time. | |||
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"Whilst it is not good to divide people even more into groups. I guess it just affects those that goes to the pubs, to have the jab or not." The division exists. Why not protect those who aren't protected by the jab, rather than excluding them? | |||
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"Whilst it is not good to divide people even more into groups. I guess it just affects those that goes to the pubs, to have the jab or not." People like your good-self miss the pint time and time and time again. You all talk of having the jab as a 'choice'. As in its binary as to whether someone of their own volition gets it or not. The actual reality is that some people cannot have the jab. Or are advised strongly not to risk having it. So we have a situation where - according to your comment - people who are unable to be vaccinated have to be banned from pubs. Now if that is what has to be proposed then it needs to be made VERY clear that is what is happening. Do we have a world that discriminates people for a reason that is out of their control? | |||
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"Never going to happen more scaremongering by the news channels " | |||
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"Whilst it is not good to divide people even more into groups. I guess it just affects those that goes to the pubs, to have the jab or not. People like your good-self miss the pint time and time and time again. You all talk of having the jab as a 'choice'. As in its binary as to whether someone of their own volition gets it or not. The actual reality is that some people cannot have the jab. Or are advised strongly not to risk having it. So we have a situation where - according to your comment - people who are unable to be vaccinated have to be banned from pubs. Now if that is what has to be proposed then it needs to be made VERY clear that is what is happening. Do we have a world that discriminates people for a reason that is out of their control? " Nope. We have a world where we look to models of vaccine mandates that have existed for decades, and offer an exemption for those who cannot be vaccinated and get a sign off from the NHS. We only exclude those who donwanna | |||
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"What will you show, a lttle hand written card, just print your own or buy one on facebook, there'll be hundreds for sale an hour after this rule was introduced. If you can't Police it, don't introduce it.
Money can be forged too. Online banking hacked.
We should abolish money, it's not foolproof and systems have had to develop to minimise fraud "Lets use bitcoin... Or chickens... When we all go veggie there will be loads of them spare. | |||
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"Whilst it is not good to divide people even more into groups. I guess it just affects those that goes to the pubs, to have the jab or not. People like your good-self miss the pint time and time and time again. You all talk of having the jab as a 'choice'. As in its binary as to whether someone of their own volition gets it or not. The actual reality is that some people cannot have the jab. Or are advised strongly not to risk having it. So we have a situation where - according to your comment - people who are unable to be vaccinated have to be banned from pubs. Now if that is what has to be proposed then it needs to be made VERY clear that is what is happening. Do we have a world that discriminates people for a reason that is out of their control? " the amount of ppl who have been advised NOT to get the vaccine I think would be exempt from not being allowed into pubs etc and probably will have some sort of excemption document , after all they would be far safer in a pub etc surrounded by vaccinated people | |||
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"What will you show, a lttle hand written card, just print your own or buy one on facebook, there'll be hundreds for sale an hour after this rule was introduced. If you can't Police it, don't introduce it.
Money can be forged too. Online banking hacked.
We should abolish money, it's not foolproof and systems have had to develop to minimise fraud
Lets use bitcoin... Or chickens... When we all go veggie there will be loads of them spare. "Lol. Let's abolish anything that isn't 100% guaranteed foolproof. If it's good enough for vaccines and lockdowns it's good enough for anything else Is your car 102% guaranteed to never fail? No? Worthless hunk of trash. Chuck it out Are all criminal laws always perfectly enforced? No? Abolish them. Are houses always perfectly safe? Clearly not. We need to live in the woods. | |||
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"Whilst it is not good to divide people even more into groups. I guess it just affects those that goes to the pubs, to have the jab or not. People like your good-self miss the pint time and time and time again. You all talk of having the jab as a 'choice'. As in its binary as to whether someone of their own volition gets it or not. The actual reality is that some people cannot have the jab. Or are advised strongly not to risk having it. So we have a situation where - according to your comment - people who are unable to be vaccinated have to be banned from pubs. Now if that is what has to be proposed then it needs to be made VERY clear that is what is happening. Do we have a world that discriminates people for a reason that is out of their control? the amount of ppl who have been advised NOT to get the vaccine I think would be exempt from not being allowed into pubs etc and probably will have some sort of excemption document , after all they would be far safer in a pub etc surrounded by vaccinated people "This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares. You say people will be 'safer'. They won't. The vaccine - as outlined very clearly - acts as a 'booster' to give the body better chance of surviving. It does not stop anyone catching it. It does not stop vaccinated people spreading it. Now if they start to talk about being tested before you can say go for a pint then they may, just may, have a valid point. | |||
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"Whilst it is not good to divide people even more into groups. I guess it just affects those that goes to the pubs, to have the jab or not. People like your good-self miss the pint time and time and time again. You all talk of having the jab as a 'choice'. As in its binary as to whether someone of their own volition gets it or not. The actual reality is that some people cannot have the jab. Or are advised strongly not to risk having it. So we have a situation where - according to your comment - people who are unable to be vaccinated have to be banned from pubs. Now if that is what has to be proposed then it needs to be made VERY clear that is what is happening. Do we have a world that discriminates people for a reason that is out of their control? the amount of ppl who have been advised NOT to get the vaccine I think would be exempt from not being allowed into pubs etc and probably will have some sort of excemption document , after all they would be far safer in a pub etc surrounded by vaccinated people
This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares.
You say people will be 'safer'. They won't. The vaccine - as outlined very clearly - acts as a 'booster' to give the body better chance of surviving. It does not stop anyone catching it. It does not stop vaccinated people spreading it.
Now if they start to talk about being tested before you can say go for a pint then they may, just may, have a valid point. "The studies are coming out which suggest that they reduce transmission, the same as the childhood vaccines do. Hope this helps | |||
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"I think it's a ridonkulous idea. My 19 year old son and his mates probably won't be able to go out for the rest of the year! I haven't read the whole thread but have any public and commented on how they feel?" Agree, as said earlier unless this isn’t bought in until after every adult has been offered it, too much of society is excluded | |||
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"Vaccine apartheid "Refusing a vaccine is definitely a thing you can't change  | |||
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"I think it's a ridonkulous idea. My 19 year old son and his mates probably won't be able to go out for the rest of the year! I haven't read the whole thread but have any public and commented on how they feel?" *publicans* | |||
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"Whilst it is not good to divide people even more into groups. I guess it just affects those that goes to the pubs, to have the jab or not. People like your good-self miss the pint time and time and time again. You all talk of having the jab as a 'choice'. As in its binary as to whether someone of their own volition gets it or not. The actual reality is that some people cannot have the jab. Or are advised strongly not to risk having it. So we have a situation where - according to your comment - people who are unable to be vaccinated have to be banned from pubs. Now if that is what has to be proposed then it needs to be made VERY clear that is what is happening. Do we have a world that discriminates people for a reason that is out of their control? the amount of ppl who have been advised NOT to get the vaccine I think would be exempt from not being allowed into pubs etc and probably will have some sort of excemption document , after all they would be far safer in a pub etc surrounded by vaccinated people
This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares.
You say people will be 'safer'. They won't. The vaccine - as outlined very clearly - acts as a 'booster' to give the body better chance of surviving. It does not stop anyone catching it. It does not stop vaccinated people spreading it.
Now if they start to talk about being tested before you can say go for a pint then they may, just may, have a valid point.
The studies are coming out which suggest that they reduce transmission, the same as the childhood vaccines do. Hope this helps "I've been watching this very carefully. The manufacturers say they 'hope' it will reduce transmission but there hasn't been any conclusive evidence. Given that the vaccine is designed to work the way it does I'm not holding my breath. The official briefings have not confirmed anything. If anything the opposite. Hey if it turns out it does then great! | |||
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"Whilst it is not good to divide people even more into groups. I guess it just affects those that goes to the pubs, to have the jab or not. People like your good-self miss the pint time and time and time again. You all talk of having the jab as a 'choice'. As in its binary as to whether someone of their own volition gets it or not. The actual reality is that some people cannot have the jab. Or are advised strongly not to risk having it. So we have a situation where - according to your comment - people who are unable to be vaccinated have to be banned from pubs. Now if that is what has to be proposed then it needs to be made VERY clear that is what is happening. Do we have a world that discriminates people for a reason that is out of their control? the amount of ppl who have been advised NOT to get the vaccine I think would be exempt from not being allowed into pubs etc and probably will have some sort of excemption document , after all they would be far safer in a pub etc surrounded by vaccinated people
This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares.
You say people will be 'safer'. They won't. The vaccine - as outlined very clearly - acts as a 'booster' to give the body better chance of surviving. It does not stop anyone catching it. It does not stop vaccinated people spreading it.
Now if they start to talk about being tested before you can say go for a pint then they may, just may, have a valid point.
The studies are coming out which suggest that they reduce transmission, the same as the childhood vaccines do. Hope this helps
I've been watching this very carefully. The manufacturers say they 'hope' it will reduce transmission but there hasn't been any conclusive evidence. Given that the vaccine is designed to work the way it does I'm not holding my breath. The official briefings have not confirmed anything. If anything the opposite.
Hey if it turns out it does then great! "The studies are ongoing but promising so far. It's also important to note that most of the "regular" vaccines were never tested for transmission, just symptom reduction. And yet here we aren't, with the measles outbreaks. Who knew | |||
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"What will you show, a lttle hand written card, just print your own or buy one on facebook, there'll be hundreds for sale an hour after this rule was introduced. If you can't Police it, don't introduce it.
Money can be forged too. Online banking hacked.
We should abolish money, it's not foolproof and systems have had to develop to minimise fraud
Lets use bitcoin... Or chickens... When we all go veggie there will be loads of them spare.
Lol.
Let's abolish anything that isn't 100% guaranteed foolproof. If it's good enough for vaccines and lockdowns it's good enough for anything else
Is your car 102% guaranteed to never fail? No? Worthless hunk of trash. Chuck it out
Are all criminal laws always perfectly enforced? No? Abolish them.
Are houses always perfectly safe? Clearly not. We need to live in the woods."Can you guarantee you won’t hurt anyone when you drive your car ? Abolish cars , can you guarantee 100 per cent safety on planes ? The list goes on and on | |||
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"What will you show, a lttle hand written card, just print your own or buy one on facebook, there'll be hundreds for sale an hour after this rule was introduced. If you can't Police it, don't introduce it.
Money can be forged too. Online banking hacked.
We should abolish money, it's not foolproof and systems have had to develop to minimise fraud
Lets use bitcoin... Or chickens... When we all go veggie there will be loads of them spare.
Lol.
Let's abolish anything that isn't 100% guaranteed foolproof. If it's good enough for vaccines and lockdowns it's good enough for anything else
Is your car 102% guaranteed to never fail? No? Worthless hunk of trash. Chuck it out
Are all criminal laws always perfectly enforced? No? Abolish them.
Are houses always perfectly safe? Clearly not. We need to live in the woods. Can you guarantee you won’t hurt anyone when you drive your car ? Abolish cars , can you guarantee 100 per cent safety on planes ? The list goes on and on " | |||
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"What will you show, a lttle hand written card, just print your own or buy one on facebook, there'll be hundreds for sale an hour after this rule was introduced. If you can't Police it, don't introduce it.
Money can be forged too. Online banking hacked.
We should abolish money, it's not foolproof and systems have had to develop to minimise fraud
Lets use bitcoin... Or chickens... When we all go veggie there will be loads of them spare.
Lol.
Let's abolish anything that isn't 100% guaranteed foolproof. If it's good enough for vaccines and lockdowns it's good enough for anything else
Is your car 102% guaranteed to never fail? No? Worthless hunk of trash. Chuck it out
Are all criminal laws always perfectly enforced? No? Abolish them.
Are houses always perfectly safe? Clearly not. We need to live in the woods. Can you guarantee you won’t hurt anyone when you drive your car ? Abolish cars , can you guarantee 100 per cent safety on planes ? The list goes on and on "I don't drive, so yeah I can
But if we demand vaccines are 115% safe, we should demand it of everything. Holidays, alcohol... | |||
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"Whilst it is not good to divide people even more into groups. I guess it just affects those that goes to the pubs, to have the jab or not. People like your good-self miss the pint time and time and time again. You all talk of having the jab as a 'choice'. As in its binary as to whether someone of their own volition gets it or not. The actual reality is that some people cannot have the jab. Or are advised strongly not to risk having it. So we have a situation where - according to your comment - people who are unable to be vaccinated have to be banned from pubs. Now if that is what has to be proposed then it needs to be made VERY clear that is what is happening. Do we have a world that discriminates people for a reason that is out of their control? " No. I wouldnt miss it as such, as I dont drink, but yes they would need to be very clear about it, cos some are exempt from it and would want to go. | |||
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"What will you show, a lttle hand written card, just print your own or buy one on facebook, there'll be hundreds for sale an hour after this rule was introduced. If you can't Police it, don't introduce it.
Money can be forged too. Online banking hacked.
We should abolish money, it's not foolproof and systems have had to develop to minimise fraud "Think it's a bit more difficult to print a £20 note that can pass muster than a vaccine card. So, don't think we should ban cash put it's being used less and less. Vaccine cards would probably be around for a short amount of time, compared to cash so wouldn't be worth the investment in chip cards and reader, unless national ID cards issued with medical and vaccine records built in. Paul's had a vaccine certificate for years but says officials generally only give it a glance or not at all. | |||
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"What will you show, a lttle hand written card, just print your own or buy one on facebook, there'll be hundreds for sale an hour after this rule was introduced. If you can't Police it, don't introduce it.
Money can be forged too. Online banking hacked.
We should abolish money, it's not foolproof and systems have had to develop to minimise fraud
Think it's a bit more difficult to print a £20 note that can pass muster than a vaccine card.
So, don't think we should ban cash put it's being used less and less.
Vaccine cards would probably be around for a short amount of time, compared to cash so wouldn't be worth the investment in chip cards and reader, unless national ID cards issued with medical and vaccine records built in.
Paul's had a vaccine certificate for years but says officials generally only give it a glance or not at all. "It's funny you think that the cards in place would be used for this sort of thing. | |||
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"Should have a chip implanted when have vaccine with your bank details. You then prove you have been vaccinated and buy beer with a swipe of your hand." That would be a great idea especially as phones with vaccine passports could be lost
I wonder if they've ever considered an ID chip with vaccine and bank details so no need for cash any longer  | |||
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"Whilst it is not good to divide people even more into groups. I guess it just affects those that goes to the pubs, to have the jab or not. People like your good-self miss the pint time and time and time again. You all talk of having the jab as a 'choice'. As in its binary as to whether someone of their own volition gets it or not. The actual reality is that some people cannot have the jab. Or are advised strongly not to risk having it. So we have a situation where - according to your comment - people who are unable to be vaccinated have to be banned from pubs. Now if that is what has to be proposed then it needs to be made VERY clear that is what is happening. Do we have a world that discriminates people for a reason that is out of their control? the amount of ppl who have been advised NOT to get the vaccine I think would be exempt from not being allowed into pubs etc and probably will have some sort of excemption document , after all they would be far safer in a pub etc surrounded by vaccinated people
This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares.
You say people will be 'safer'. They won't. The vaccine - as outlined very clearly - acts as a 'booster' to give the body better chance of surviving. It does not stop anyone catching it. It does not stop vaccinated people spreading it.
Now if they start to talk about being tested before you can say go for a pint then they may, just may, have a valid point. "I suggest maybe watch some media regarding the covid figures to date , just for a snippet 63 reported deaths in last 28 days , not so long ago it was reporting going towards 2000 a day , hope this helps | |||
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"With regard to testing & results, work asks employees to test twice a week, you register with NHS & post results, there thus exists an official record of recent tests & results, no need for crony involvement, Serco etc." Yup. And I don't think "this could be an opportunity for a grubby organisation" is a reason why it wouldn't work anyway. | |||
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" This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares. You say people will be 'safer'. They won't. The vaccine - as outlined very clearly - acts as a 'booster' to give the body better chance of surviving. It does not stop anyone catching it. It does not stop vaccinated people spreading it. " I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab | |||
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"I think chairman Boris was just talking off the cuff once more. I interpreted his comment as him suggesting that the government would not enforce such a rule but landlords could do so if they chose to do so. What I am certain of is that the standard of questions posed by the media during covid has verged on the side of puerile and inane at times. Politicians are a desperate bunch at the best of times but sometimes they should just defer answering a question and reply officially at a later point having given due consideration." I think they need to take a bit of responsibility for the things they stir up. Some of which are quite dangerous. | |||
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"If it gives pubs the potential for getting more customers in and more revenue, it should be their choice. They could perhaps have separate areas for those who haven't had the jab. " Why all the fuss? If you want to have the jab and go to the pub, why not and if there are people who haven't had the vaccine, why worry because you have | |||
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"Should have a chip implanted when have vaccine with your bank details. You then prove you have been vaccinated and buy beer with a swipe of your hand. That would be a great idea especially as phones with vaccine passports could be lost
I wonder if they've ever considered an ID chip with vaccine and bank details so no need for cash any longer "Lots of one armed people yikes | |||
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"Should have a chip implanted when have vaccine with your bank details. You then prove you have been vaccinated and buy beer with a swipe of your hand. That would be a great idea especially as phones with vaccine passports could be lost
I wonder if they've ever considered an ID chip with vaccine and bank details so no need for cash any longer "You mean exactly like a mobile phone that everyone carries with them at all times already? | |||
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"A lot of people are missing a couple of crucial points: Firstly they are focussing on people's right not to be vaccinated which of course is valid - but - what about people who cannot be vaccinated? They don't have that choice. The other point is the vaccine itself. It 'merely' - we are told - strengthens the body's ability to survive Covid with the added 'bonus' of hopefully keeping people out of hospital. It does not stop people catching it. Does not stop people spreading it. Pub landlords are obviously - with headlines like "87,000 pints poured down drain" headlines doing the rounds - looking for an 'edge' to open and stay open. No one can blame them for that. However, in the 'rush' to re-open we are in danger of losing sight of the actual facts as I've outlined above. The elephant in the room in all of this is that a non-vaccinated person is no more a risk to other drinkers than a vaccinated. A point Prof Chris Witty keeps trying to make but the media don't pick up on it - cos its not 'controversial' enough and doesn't sell papers or clicks. We need to have the actual facts outlined clearly so everyone is informed. I think facts were one of the first casualties of this pandemic . Absolutely. This is the problem. Even BoJo's slurred waffle yesterday has been woefully misquoted. Mainly by the media to sell there story and conspiracy theorists in a "See? I bloody told ya!" rant! I'm not sure he was tbh He was asked if you need a vaccine passport to go the pub and he said it may be upto the landlord. So obviously the media are saying you may need one to go the pub. The crucial word is 'MAY'. The press and some areas of social media have turned that into 'WILL'. This is what's causing the confusion. The good 'ol ambiguity of politicians eh? " The pressitutes will run wild on this as they do with any half story | |||
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"This will never happen. Vaccine passports is an old crazy tin hatted nutjob conspriracy theory." Probably multi-use, including by thousands of organisations around the world, including for travel. It's those against progress who are spinning the conspiracies, as you emphasise. | |||
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"What do peeps think?" Opportunity to make money selling fake passports on ebay, amazon | |||
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" This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares. You say people will be 'safer'. They won't. The vaccine - as outlined very clearly - acts as a 'booster' to give the body better chance of surviving. It does not stop anyone catching it. It does not stop vaccinated people spreading it. I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab " What’s there risk after the jab ? Guess it’s something like 000000.1 for under 60 | |||
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"I will piss people off but I agree....but you can't implement that rule until most have had the jab What about those who can't have it? For health reasons. Or those who have too much anxiety over putting something into their body without any knowledge of the long term side effects? They never get to go to the pub again? Lu "Based on reactions by the majority of people towards anybody who is dubious about the vaccines for whatever their reason may be, they will just have to live with being slandered and ridiculed. | |||
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" This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares. You say people will be 'safer'. They won't. The vaccine - as outlined very clearly - acts as a 'booster' to give the body better chance of surviving. It does not stop anyone catching it. It does not stop vaccinated people spreading it. I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab What’s there risk after the jab ? Guess it’s something like 000000.1 for under 60 " Call me a pedant but it doesn't matter how many zeros you put before the decimal point. Or what a risk of 0.1 means. | |||
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" This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares. You say people will be 'safer'. They won't. The vaccine - as outlined very clearly - acts as a 'booster' to give the body better chance of surviving. It does not stop anyone catching it. It does not stop vaccinated people spreading it. I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab What’s there risk after the jab ? Guess it’s something like 000000.1 for under 60 Call me a pedant but it doesn't matter how many zeros you put before the decimal point. Or what a risk of 0.1 means. " Yeah 00000000.1 is the same as 0.1. And risk of what? A pimple? Nuclear apocalypse? | |||
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" This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares. You say people will be 'safer'. They won't. The vaccine - as outlined very clearly - acts as a 'booster' to give the body better chance of surviving. It does not stop anyone catching it. It does not stop vaccinated people spreading it. I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab What’s there risk after the jab ? Guess it’s something like 000000.1 for under 60 Call me a pedant but it doesn't matter how many zeros you put before the decimal point. Or what a risk of 0.1 means. Yeah 00000000.1 is the same as 0.1. And risk of what? A pimple? Nuclear apocalypse?" The risk is very very low ,the oooooo, 1 was to emphasise how low the risk of dying from Covid after being vaccinated, don’t forget the average age of Covid death is 82.4 and age of life expectancy is 81 | |||
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" This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares. You say people will be 'safer'. They won't. The vaccine - as outlined very clearly - acts as a 'booster' to give the body better chance of surviving. It does not stop anyone catching it. It does not stop vaccinated people spreading it. I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab What’s there risk after the jab ? Guess it’s something like 000000.1 for under 60 Call me a pedant but it doesn't matter how many zeros you put before the decimal point. Or what a risk of 0.1 means. Yeah 00000000.1 is the same as 0.1. And risk of what? A pimple? Nuclear apocalypse? The risk is very very low ,the oooooo, 1 was to emphasise how low the risk of dying from Covid after being vaccinated, don’t forget the average age of Covid death is 82.4 and age of life expectancy is 81 " I'm afraid numbers mean things, they're not decorative. And death isn't the only bad outcome from Covid. Some people are disabled a year on. Hope it helps you to learn that. | |||
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" This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares. You say people will be 'safer'. They won't. The vaccine - as outlined very clearly - acts as a 'booster' to give the body better chance of surviving. It does not stop anyone catching it. It does not stop vaccinated people spreading it. I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab What’s there risk after the jab ? Guess it’s something like 000000.1 for under 60 Call me a pedant but it doesn't matter how many zeros you put before the decimal point. Or what a risk of 0.1 means. Yeah 00000000.1 is the same as 0.1. And risk of what? A pimple? Nuclear apocalypse? The risk is very very low ,the oooooo, 1 was to emphasise how low the risk of dying from Covid after being vaccinated, don’t forget the average age of Covid death is 82.4 and age of life expectancy is 81 I'm afraid numbers mean things, they're not decorative. And death isn't the only bad outcome from Covid. Some people are disabled a year on. Hope it helps you to learn that." Thanks for your wise words feel so informed now | |||
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" This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares. You say people will be 'safer'. They won't. The vaccine - as outlined very clearly - acts as a 'booster' to give the body better chance of surviving. It does not stop anyone catching it. It does not stop vaccinated people spreading it. I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab What’s there risk after the jab ? Guess it’s something like 000000.1 for under 60 Call me a pedant but it doesn't matter how many zeros you put before the decimal point. Or what a risk of 0.1 means. Yeah 00000000.1 is the same as 0.1. And risk of what? A pimple? Nuclear apocalypse? The risk is very very low ,the oooooo, 1 was to emphasise how low the risk of dying from Covid after being vaccinated, don’t forget the average age of Covid death is 82.4 and age of life expectancy is 81 I'm afraid numbers mean things, they're not decorative. And death isn't the only bad outcome from Covid. Some people are disabled a year on. Hope it helps you to learn that. Thanks for your wise words feel so informed now " I hope it makes a difference. We don't want to be spreading nonsense, do we? | |||
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" This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares. You say people will be 'safer'. They won't. The vaccine - as outlined very clearly - acts as a 'booster' to give the body better chance of surviving. It does not stop anyone catching it. It does not stop vaccinated people spreading it. I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab What’s there risk after the jab ? Guess it’s something like 000000.1 for under 60 Call me a pedant but it doesn't matter how many zeros you put before the decimal point. Or what a risk of 0.1 means. Yeah 00000000.1 is the same as 0.1. And risk of what? A pimple? Nuclear apocalypse? The risk is very very low ,the oooooo, 1 was to emphasise how low the risk of dying from Covid after being vaccinated, don’t forget the average age of Covid death is 82.4 and age of life expectancy is 81 " Anyone can make numbers up. Its fine having a different opinion. But making up a number to support it without evidence is well... Making it up. I do agree though that the risks appear to be much lower having been vaccinated and also that for the ages groups most likely to be in a pub... Its a very low risk indeed. And apart from anything... Its only a hypothetical post... Nobody in govt is saying it is needed... Its just media shite. | |||
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" This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares. You say people will be 'safer'. They won't. The vaccine - as outlined very clearly - acts as a 'booster' to give the body better chance of surviving. It does not stop anyone catching it. It does not stop vaccinated people spreading it. I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab What’s there risk after the jab ? Guess it’s something like 000000.1 for under 60 Call me a pedant but it doesn't matter how many zeros you put before the decimal point. Or what a risk of 0.1 means. Yeah 00000000.1 is the same as 0.1. And risk of what? A pimple? Nuclear apocalypse? The risk is very very low ,the oooooo, 1 was to emphasise how low the risk of dying from Covid after being vaccinated, don’t forget the average age of Covid death is 82.4 and age of life expectancy is 81 Anyone can make numbers up. Its fine having a different opinion. But making up a number to support it without evidence is well... Making it up. I do agree though that the risks appear to be much lower having been vaccinated and also that for the ages groups most likely to be in a pub... Its a very low risk indeed. And apart from anything... Its only a hypothetical post... Nobody in govt is saying it is needed... Its just media shite. " Ok we need someone who’s good at maths and definite figures as some suggest before vaccine you had a 99.3 chance of survival ,now the vaccine offers 90 per cent chance on top of that , what is the chances now for someone under 60 ? | |||
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" This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares. You say people will be 'safer'. They won't. The vaccine - as outlined very clearly - acts as a 'booster' to give the body better chance of surviving. It does not stop anyone catching it. It does not stop vaccinated people spreading it. I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab What’s there risk after the jab ? Guess it’s something like 000000.1 for under 60 Call me a pedant but it doesn't matter how many zeros you put before the decimal point. Or what a risk of 0.1 means. Yeah 00000000.1 is the same as 0.1. And risk of what? A pimple? Nuclear apocalypse? The risk is very very low ,the oooooo, 1 was to emphasise how low the risk of dying from Covid after being vaccinated, don’t forget the average age of Covid death is 82.4 and age of life expectancy is 81 Anyone can make numbers up. Its fine having a different opinion. But making up a number to support it without evidence is well... Making it up. I do agree though that the risks appear to be much lower having been vaccinated and also that for the ages groups most likely to be in a pub... Its a very low risk indeed. And apart from anything... Its only a hypothetical post... Nobody in govt is saying it is needed... Its just media shite. Ok we need someone who’s good at maths and definite figures as some suggest before vaccine you had a 99.3 chance of survival ,now the vaccine offers 90 per cent chance on top of that , what is the chances now for someone under 60 ? " A lot of the numbers floating around are complete made up bullcrap. Or were accurate 12 months ago but no longer valid as the situation has changed significantly. Or they are deliberately twisted or vague to help support someone's argument... Which pretty much distills into 2 camps.... One that wants to unlock everything and take their chances and the others who want to stay isolating until the infections are lower and vaccinations are higher. I have never seen (and have looked hard) numbers as you suggest that say if you're male and white and under 60...youre chances of being infected are.... Xxxx if you're black female under 40 your chances of being infected are.. Yyy. Would be helpful to have these to help people choose what risks they want to take. | |||
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" This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares. You say people will be 'safer'. They won't. The vaccine - as outlined very clearly - acts as a 'booster' to give the body better chance of surviving. It does not stop anyone catching it. It does not stop vaccinated people spreading it. I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab What’s there risk after the jab ? Guess it’s something like 000000.1 for under 60 Call me a pedant but it doesn't matter how many zeros you put before the decimal point. Or what a risk of 0.1 means. Yeah 00000000.1 is the same as 0.1. And risk of what? A pimple? Nuclear apocalypse? The risk is very very low ,the oooooo, 1 was to emphasise how low the risk of dying from Covid after being vaccinated, don’t forget the average age of Covid death is 82.4 and age of life expectancy is 81 Anyone can make numbers up. Its fine having a different opinion. But making up a number to support it without evidence is well... Making it up. I do agree though that the risks appear to be much lower having been vaccinated and also that for the ages groups most likely to be in a pub... Its a very low risk indeed. And apart from anything... Its only a hypothetical post... Nobody in govt is saying it is needed... Its just media shite. Ok we need someone who’s good at maths and definite figures as some suggest before vaccine you had a 99.3 chance of survival ,now the vaccine offers 90 per cent chance on top of that , what is the chances now for someone under 60 ? A lot of the numbers floating around are complete made up bullcrap. Or were accurate 12 months ago but no longer valid as the situation has changed significantly. Or they are deliberately twisted or vague to help support someone's argument... Which pretty much distills into 2 camps.... One that wants to unlock everything and take their chances and the others who want to stay isolating until the infections are lower and vaccinations are higher. I have never seen (and have looked hard) numbers as you suggest that say if you're male and white and under 60...youre chances of being infected are.... Xxxx if you're black female under 40 your chances of being infected are.. Yyy. Would be helpful to have these to help people choose what risks they want to take. " There has been figures broken down by age but lately they are not easily found, but would suggest the risk now of dying of Covid if under 60 is very low with the vaccine now been given to so many , unless others know that’s not true ? We can only base our uniformed opinions by what we are told or lately what we are not told | |||
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"Our World in Data suggests that if you're over 19, your risk of death (assuming no other problems exist, which is insane) is above 0.1%. Over the course of the pandemic, the case fatality rate in the UK has been as high as 14% and is currently over 2%. Again this is excluding long term health effects, disability which may also threaten the NHS's ability to cope and take people out of the workforce. Sounds like the statistics quoted above are pish" And your source for your figures ? | |||
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"Our World in Data suggests that if you're over 19, your risk of death (assuming no other problems exist, which is insane) is above 0.1%. Over the course of the pandemic, the case fatality rate in the UK has been as high as 14% and is currently over 2%. Again this is excluding long term health effects, disability which may also threaten the NHS's ability to cope and take people out of the workforce. Sounds like the statistics quoted above are pish And your source for your figures ? " Our World in Data. | |||
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"Unfortunately I can't link - you know, forum rules and all that." Yes understand that , BBC reported figures are for under 40s the risk of death of those who had Covid was 0.1 per cent and rises to 5 per cent for over 80s ,these figures where before vaccine rolled out this was the imperial college of London’s figures | |||
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"Unfortunately I can't link - you know, forum rules and all that. Yes understand that , BBC reported figures are for under 40s the risk of death of those who had Covid was 0.1 per cent and rises to 5 per cent for over 80s ,these figures where before vaccine rolled out this was the imperial college of London’s figures " The data I'm looking at suggests at least double that in your 30s and more in your 40s. Even if you forget - as I'm sure we can't - that long Covid is devastating in many people. | |||
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"Unfortunately I can't link - you know, forum rules and all that. Yes understand that , BBC reported figures are for under 40s the risk of death of those who had Covid was 0.1 per cent and rises to 5 per cent for over 80s ,these figures where before vaccine rolled out this was the imperial college of London’s figures The data I'm looking at suggests at least double that in your 30s and more in your 40s. Even if you forget - as I'm sure we can't - that long Covid is devastating in many people." We are only as good as the figures we read, but it’s well know and sure you agree that the average age of death of Covid is 82.4 and the average life expectancy is 81 , now that does suggest that the older population are most at risk but now most have been vaccinated and supposedly the vaccine cuts you risk of dying by 90per cent what risk is there to people ? Negligible we would suggest | |||
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"Unfortunately I can't link - you know, forum rules and all that. Yes understand that , BBC reported figures are for under 40s the risk of death of those who had Covid was 0.1 per cent and rises to 5 per cent for over 80s ,these figures where before vaccine rolled out this was the imperial college of London’s figures The data I'm looking at suggests at least double that in your 30s and more in your 40s. Even if you forget - as I'm sure we can't - that long Covid is devastating in many people. We are only as good as the figures we read, but it’s well know and sure you agree that the average age of death of Covid is 82.4 and the average life expectancy is 81 , now that does suggest that the older population are most at risk but now most have been vaccinated and supposedly the vaccine cuts you risk of dying by 90per cent what risk is there to people ? Negligible we would suggest " The ONS suggests your average age of death is accurate. However, given that death is not the only bad outcome, I'd have to disagree. Long Covid is documented in all age groups, including children. Some people a year on suffer significant cognitive deficits and even things like being unable to climb a flight of stairs without a break. So the risk is substantial. Given how often you post about the looming economic catastrophe once furlough ends, we'd better not compound it by adding a significant disability toll to the mix. I'm sure you'll agree. We both just care about the best thing for this country and the health of the people, after all | |||
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"Just look at how vaccines have eradicated diseases like Polio. Diptheria. Smallpox. and several other diseases." Smallpox is the ONLY disease to have been successfully eradicated by vaccination - polio, diptheria and all the others are still around, simply rare in the Western world, but fairly common elsewhere... | |||
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"Just look at how vaccines have eradicated diseases like Polio. Diptheria. Smallpox. and several other diseases. Smallpox is the ONLY disease to have been successfully eradicated by vaccination - polio, diptheria and all the others are still around, simply rare in the Western world, but fairly common elsewhere..." Polio is approaching eradication. | |||
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"Just look at how vaccines have eradicated diseases like Polio. Diptheria. Smallpox. and several other diseases. Smallpox is the ONLY disease to have been successfully eradicated by vaccination - polio, diptheria and all the others are still around, simply rare in the Western world, but fairly common elsewhere..." I rest my case. Where vaccinations take place diseases are eradicated. Hence western world clear | |||
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"Just look at how vaccines have eradicated diseases like Polio. Diptheria. Smallpox. and several other diseases. Smallpox is the ONLY disease to have been successfully eradicated by vaccination - polio, diptheria and all the others are still around, simply rare in the Western world, but fairly common elsewhere... I rest my case. Where vaccinations take place diseases are eradicated. Hence western world clear " Vaccines are one of the greatest inventions in history, I think | |||
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"Government should be making it illegal to ask about your medical history never mind encouraging people to ask private information " Agree totally | |||
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" This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares. You say people will be 'safer'. They won't. The vaccine - as outlined very clearly - acts as a 'booster' to give the body better chance of surviving. It does not stop anyone catching it. It does not stop vaccinated people spreading it. I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab " Okay, the deal is this: 1. Covid-19 is very very contagious to unvaccinated people. If you are not vaccinated and you spend any amount of time in close proximity with someone who is actively infected with covid and in the virus shedding phase, then there is a very high likelihood of you catching it. This applies across ALL age groups as far as we can tell. The proof of this is that the initial infection of one person, probably in China, spread exponentially with a doubling period of three to four days and very quickly infected every country. 2. Without using vaccination, the only way to slow the exponential spread of covid is to enforce quite draconian infection control measures - masking, hand cleaning, social distancing, disinfection of surfaces, lock downs. We have seen that even these infection control measures are unable to reduce infection numbers to zero, merely to cut the rate, and as soon as the control measures are weakened the growth resumes on the exponential pattern again. 3. The illness caused by covid in unvaccinated people varies considerably with strong correlation to age and underlying conditions. Depending on availability of medical treatment, the death rate across full population caused by the CURRENT strains of covid appears to be anything from 0.1% up to 15%. At present with treatments available in the UK, the death rate appears to be averaging about 2%. The majority of those dying are older people, but not all. There is also a considerably higher rate of serious long term illness and disability occurring in younger people. [Does anyone have any decent figures for this? The government/media seem to say very little on this topic, possibly because while 130,000 dead is damning, having ten or twenty or more times this with long term disability would be utterly crucifying for them]. 4. Unvaccinated people suffering from covid have very high likelihood of shedding high levels of the virus into the atmosphere, apparently even if not showing serious symptoms themselves. This all contributes to the very high infection rate unless draconian infection control procedures are enforced. All the above is very bad already, although the correlation of serious illness/death with age and underlying conditions has led to large number of younger/fitter members of the population appearing to not give a toss, and being quite happy to let the pandemic continue because they feel they personally are in little danger. However: 5. The raw mutation rate of the coronavirus family of viruses is low, which under normal conditions would mean that new strains would be very slow to emerge. But across the globe there have been over a hundred million confirmed cases of covid, probably many more unconfirmed or with low symptomology. Every single one of these cases gives a chance for viral mutation to occur. Low mutation rate multiplied by high number of cases = high rate of new strains emerging. This is very serious, because sooner or later there is almost certain to be strains evolving that are any of (a) more deadly to younger people, (b) resistant to the current treatments, (c) more infectious, (d) resistant to the current vaccines. Point (d) is especially bad because although we are told that the vaccines can be tweaked for new strains, there is a danger that strains may emerge faster than the vaccines can be caught up, and the world will be perpetually on the covid treadmill until some really bad strain emerges and kills huge numbers of the population. NOTE: There has probably never been any virus before that has been simultaneously infecting such a high number of people, since the advent of high speed global movement. Things like the black death and the spanish flu killed millions, but global movement was considerably slower, so that while variants would emerge, those variants would largely remain regional. With covid we see every new variant having global reach within only days. But vaccines can help, and it is incredibly vital that the maximum possible amount of the population are vaccinated: 6. Vaccinated people are much less likely to die or have serious illness. This is good news to older people and those with underlying conditions. By itself this appears to be less vital for younger people [ref. "There's bugger all chance of it killing me, so why should I bother with a vaccine?"]. However issues 1 through 5 above remain - sooner or later covid will explode again, with high likelihood of more dangerous strains emerging, at which time those young/fit people may start dropping by the million. 7. What has been definitely proven now is that although vaccination does not 100% absolutely prevent any particular person catching the virus, being ill, or spreading the virus, it does considerably reduce the chance of catching and spreading. Vaccinated people are less likely to catch covid than unvaccinated people. Vaccinated covid sufferers infect fewer people than unvaccinated covid sufferers. This means that AS LONG AS ENOUGH PEOPLE GET VACCINATED we can throw away all the masks, end the lockdowns, go back to the pub, and the week-on-week infection numbers will still go down rather than going up. This is the HERD IMMUNITY effect, where the disease dies down to the extent that even the unvaccinated people are protected because the likelihood of exposure to an ill person becomes very low. 8. IF AND ONLY IF the global number of cases falls, then the emergence of new strains will happen at slower and slower rates. Which removes the danger of new strains coming faster than vaccines can be tweaked. Which allows more people to be vaccinated before the vaccines need tweaking again. Which reduces the number of cases further etc. This is probably the most important thing because this REDUCES THE CHANCE OF ANY ULTRA DEADLY STRAIN EMERGING. The moral of this story is this: If everyone who can be vaccinated, does get vaccinated, then there is a halfway good chance of the world emerging from the gloom, everyone chucking the masks, and something like normal life resuming. BUT if too many people say "nah, I don't need a vaccine, I'll be okay" then there is a horrible chance that we will never get back to normal, and a growing chance of death on a scale that would dwarf the last twelve months. | |||
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" This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares. You say people will be 'safer'. They won't. The vaccine - as outlined very clearly - acts as a 'booster' to give the body better chance of surviving. It does not stop anyone catching it. It does not stop vaccinated people spreading it. I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab Okay, the deal is this: 1. Covid-19 is very very contagious to unvaccinated people. If you are not vaccinated and you spend any amount of time in close proximity with someone who is actively infected with covid and in the virus shedding phase, then there is a very high likelihood of you catching it. This applies across ALL age groups as far as we can tell. The proof of this is that the initial infection of one person, probably in China, spread exponentially with a doubling period of three to four days and very quickly infected every country. 2. Without using vaccination, the only way to slow the exponential spread of covid is to enforce quite draconian infection control measures - masking, hand cleaning, social distancing, disinfection of surfaces, lock downs. We have seen that even these infection control measures are unable to reduce infection numbers to zero, merely to cut the rate, and as soon as the control measures are weakened the growth resumes on the exponential pattern again. 3. The illness caused by covid in unvaccinated people varies considerably with strong correlation to age and underlying conditions. Depending on availability of medical treatment, the death rate across full population caused by the CURRENT strains of covid appears to be anything from 0.1% up to 15%. At present with treatments available in the UK, the death rate appears to be averaging about 2%. The majority of those dying are older people, but not all. There is also a considerably higher rate of serious long term illness and disability occurring in younger people. [Does anyone have any decent figures for this? The government/media seem to say very little on this topic, possibly because while 130,000 dead is damning, having ten or twenty or more times this with long term disability would be utterly crucifying for them]. 4. Unvaccinated people suffering from covid have very high likelihood of shedding high levels of the virus into the atmosphere, apparently even if not showing serious symptoms themselves. This all contributes to the very high infection rate unless draconian infection control procedures are enforced. All the above is very bad already, although the correlation of serious illness/death with age and underlying conditions has led to large number of younger/fitter members of the population appearing to not give a toss, and being quite happy to let the pandemic continue because they feel they personally are in little danger. However: 5. The raw mutation rate of the coronavirus family of viruses is low, which under normal conditions would mean that new strains would be very slow to emerge. But across the globe there have been over a hundred million confirmed cases of covid, probably many more unconfirmed or with low symptomology. Every single one of these cases gives a chance for viral mutation to occur. Low mutation rate multiplied by high number of cases = high rate of new strains emerging. This is very serious, because sooner or later there is almost certain to be strains evolving that are any of (a) more deadly to younger people, (b) resistant to the current treatments, (c) more infectious, (d) resistant to the current vaccines. Point (d) is especially bad because although we are told that the vaccines can be tweaked for new strains, there is a danger that strains may emerge faster than the vaccines can be caught up, and the world will be perpetually on the covid treadmill until some really bad strain emerges and kills huge numbers of the population. NOTE: There has probably never been any virus before that has been simultaneously infecting such a high number of people, since the advent of high speed global movement. Things like the black death and the spanish flu killed millions, but global movement was considerably slower, so that while variants would emerge, those variants would largely remain regional. With covid we see every new variant having global reach within only days. But vaccines can help, and it is incredibly vital that the maximum possible amount of the population are vaccinated: 6. Vaccinated people are much less likely to die or have serious illness. This is good news to older people and those with underlying conditions. By itself this appears to be less vital for younger people [ref. "There's bugger all chance of it killing me, so why should I bother with a vaccine?"]. However issues 1 through 5 above remain - sooner or later covid will explode again, with high likelihood of more dangerous strains emerging, at which time those young/fit people may start dropping by the million. 7. What has been definitely proven now is that although vaccination does not 100% absolutely prevent any particular person catching the virus, being ill, or spreading the virus, it does considerably reduce the chance of catching and spreading. Vaccinated people are less likely to catch covid than unvaccinated people. Vaccinated covid sufferers infect fewer people than unvaccinated covid sufferers. This means that AS LONG AS ENOUGH PEOPLE GET VACCINATED we can throw away all the masks, end the lockdowns, go back to the pub, and the week-on-week infection numbers will still go down rather than going up. This is the HERD IMMUNITY effect, where the disease dies down to the extent that even the unvaccinated people are protected because the likelihood of exposure to an ill person becomes very low. 8. IF AND ONLY IF the global number of cases falls, then the emergence of new strains will happen at slower and slower rates. Which removes the danger of new strains coming faster than vaccines can be tweaked. Which allows more people to be vaccinated before the vaccines need tweaking again. Which reduces the number of cases further etc. This is probably the most important thing because this REDUCES THE CHANCE OF ANY ULTRA DEADLY STRAIN EMERGING. The moral of this story is this: If everyone who can be vaccinated, does get vaccinated, then there is a halfway good chance of the world emerging from the gloom, everyone chucking the masks, and something like normal life resuming. BUT if too many people say "nah, I don't need a vaccine, I'll be okay" then there is a horrible chance that we will never get back to normal, and a growing chance of death on a scale that would dwarf the last twelve months."
Deserves to be read with an open mind and understood by us all. | |||
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" This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares. You say people will be 'safer'. They won't. The vaccine - as outlined very clearly - acts as a 'booster' to give the body better chance of surviving. It does not stop anyone catching it. It does not stop vaccinated people spreading it. I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab Okay, the deal is this: 1. Covid-19 is very very contagious to unvaccinated people. If you are not vaccinated and you spend any amount of time in close proximity with someone who is actively infected with covid and in the virus shedding phase, then there is a very high likelihood of you catching it. This applies across ALL age groups as far as we can tell. The proof of this is that the initial infection of one person, probably in China, spread exponentially with a doubling period of three to four days and very quickly infected every country. 2. Without using vaccination, the only way to slow the exponential spread of covid is to enforce quite draconian infection control measures - masking, hand cleaning, social distancing, disinfection of surfaces, lock downs. We have seen that even these infection control measures are unable to reduce infection numbers to zero, merely to cut the rate, and as soon as the control measures are weakened the growth resumes on the exponential pattern again. 3. The illness caused by covid in unvaccinated people varies considerably with strong correlation to age and underlying conditions. Depending on availability of medical treatment, the death rate across full population caused by the CURRENT strains of covid appears to be anything from 0.1% up to 15%. At present with treatments available in the UK, the death rate appears to be averaging about 2%. The majority of those dying are older people, but not all. There is also a considerably higher rate of serious long term illness and disability occurring in younger people. [Does anyone have any decent figures for this? The government/media seem to say very little on this topic, possibly because while 130,000 dead is damning, having ten or twenty or more times this with long term disability would be utterly crucifying for them]. 4. Unvaccinated people suffering from covid have very high likelihood of shedding high levels of the virus into the atmosphere, apparently even if not showing serious symptoms themselves. This all contributes to the very high infection rate unless draconian infection control procedures are enforced. All the above is very bad already, although the correlation of serious illness/death with age and underlying conditions has led to large number of younger/fitter members of the population appearing to not give a toss, and being quite happy to let the pandemic continue because they feel they personally are in little danger. However: 5. The raw mutation rate of the coronavirus family of viruses is low, which under normal conditions would mean that new strains would be very slow to emerge. But across the globe there have been over a hundred million confirmed cases of covid, probably many more unconfirmed or with low symptomology. Every single one of these cases gives a chance for viral mutation to occur. Low mutation rate multiplied by high number of cases = high rate of new strains emerging. This is very serious, because sooner or later there is almost certain to be strains evolving that are any of (a) more deadly to younger people, (b) resistant to the current treatments, (c) more infectious, (d) resistant to the current vaccines. Point (d) is especially bad because although we are told that the vaccines can be tweaked for new strains, there is a danger that strains may emerge faster than the vaccines can be caught up, and the world will be perpetually on the covid treadmill until some really bad strain emerges and kills huge numbers of the population. NOTE: There has probably never been any virus before that has been simultaneously infecting such a high number of people, since the advent of high speed global movement. Things like the black death and the spanish flu killed millions, but global movement was considerably slower, so that while variants would emerge, those variants would largely remain regional. With covid we see every new variant having global reach within only days. But vaccines can help, and it is incredibly vital that the maximum possible amount of the population are vaccinated: 6. Vaccinated people are much less likely to die or have serious illness. This is good news to older people and those with underlying conditions. By itself this appears to be less vital for younger people [ref. "There's bugger all chance of it killing me, so why should I bother with a vaccine?"]. However issues 1 through 5 above remain - sooner or later covid will explode again, with high likelihood of more dangerous strains emerging, at which time those young/fit people may start dropping by the million. 7. What has been definitely proven now is that although vaccination does not 100% absolutely prevent any particular person catching the virus, being ill, or spreading the virus, it does considerably reduce the chance of catching and spreading. Vaccinated people are less likely to catch covid than unvaccinated people. Vaccinated covid sufferers infect fewer people than unvaccinated covid sufferers. This means that AS LONG AS ENOUGH PEOPLE GET VACCINATED we can throw away all the masks, end the lockdowns, go back to the pub, and the week-on-week infection numbers will still go down rather than going up. This is the HERD IMMUNITY effect, where the disease dies down to the extent that even the unvaccinated people are protected because the likelihood of exposure to an ill person becomes very low. 8. IF AND ONLY IF the global number of cases falls, then the emergence of new strains will happen at slower and slower rates. Which removes the danger of new strains coming faster than vaccines can be tweaked. Which allows more people to be vaccinated before the vaccines need tweaking again. Which reduces the number of cases further etc. This is probably the most important thing because this REDUCES THE CHANCE OF ANY ULTRA DEADLY STRAIN EMERGING. The moral of this story is this: If everyone who can be vaccinated, does get vaccinated, then there is a halfway good chance of the world emerging from the gloom, everyone chucking the masks, and something like normal life resuming. BUT if too many people say "nah, I don't need a vaccine, I'll be okay" then there is a horrible chance that we will never get back to normal, and a growing chance of death on a scale that would dwarf the last twelve months.
Deserves to be read with an open mind and understood by us all. " | |||
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"What will you show, a lttle hand written card, just print your own or buy one on facebook, there'll be hundreds for sale an hour after this rule was introduced. If you can't Police it, don't introduce it.
Money can be forged too. Online banking hacked.
We should abolish money, it's not foolproof and systems have had to develop to minimise fraud
Think it's a bit more difficult to print a £20 note that can pass muster than a vaccine card.
So, don't think we should ban cash put it's being used less and less.
Vaccine cards would probably be around for a short amount of time, compared to cash so wouldn't be worth the investment in chip cards and reader, unless national ID cards issued with medical and vaccine records built in.
Paul's had a vaccine certificate for years but says officials generally only give it a glance or not at all.
It's funny you think that the cards in place would be used for this sort of thing."Didn't mean using the vaccine cards for travel would be used to gain access to pubs, I was just saying there is a form of vaccine card that has been used for years. | |||
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I also think mass testing etc is a good idea, especially earlier on, or if problems start to show again. Could be in conjunction with vaccine status checks. | |||
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"The vaccine thing for pubs won’t be on a piece of card. It’ll be digital." Imagine telling a landlords that before opening their doors to make back some of the cash they have lost during lockdown they will have to cough up for a vaccine card reader and train staff on what to do if some pesky non vaccinated student type tries to get his or her student debt ridden carcass through the door to have a pint. | |||
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"The vaccine thing for pubs won’t be on a piece of card. It’ll be digital. Imagine telling a landlords that before opening their doors to make back some of the cash they have lost during lockdown they will have to cough up for a vaccine card reader and train staff on what to do if some pesky non vaccinated student type tries to get his or her student debt ridden carcass through the door to have a pint. "Well, they won't have to, because on the information we've got, it'll be up to the individual proprietor. But necessity is the mother of invention, and if we poo-pooed everything that didn't yet exist, we'd still be gnawing on raw meat because cooking and fire is all a bit high tech. | |||
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"I would rather take a test every time I want to go to the pub than be bullied into getting vaccinated. Why can't they come up with a way to make that work?" Who's bullying you? Being vaccinated is a choice as is going to the pub. | |||
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"I would rather take a test every time I want to go to the pub than be bullied into getting vaccinated. Why can't they come up with a way to make that work?" It's not bullying, it's a choice. Your choice, their choice. And if it's a choice that some establishments make, it'll be because of the need to establish herd immunity. While individual choice is sacrosanct, it comes with consequences for the people around you. The less people are vaccinated, the less protected we are. And it means those not individually protected by vaccines are in danger. I'm not sure when "consequences for your actions" became bullying (let alone tyranny as some suggest). I would have thought it was life as we all know it, from being toddlers. | |||
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" This is the point that is being missed. I would even venture purposely by the media to stir things up to sell their wares. You say people will be 'safer'. They won't. The vaccine - as outlined very clearly - acts as a 'booster' to give the body better chance of surviving. It does not stop anyone catching it. It does not stop vaccinated people spreading it. I think people have forgotten this and think you are immune to it after having the jab Okay, the deal is this: 1. Covid-19 is very very contagious to unvaccinated people. If you are not vaccinated and you spend any amount of time in close proximity with someone who is actively infected with covid and in the virus shedding phase, then there is a very high likelihood of you catching it. This applies across ALL age groups as far as we can tell. The proof of this is that the initial infection of one person, probably in China, spread exponentially with a doubling period of three to four days and very quickly infected every country. 2. Without using vaccination, the only way to slow the exponential spread of covid is to enforce quite draconian infection control measures - masking, hand cleaning, social distancing, disinfection of surfaces, lock downs. We have seen that even these infection control measures are unable to reduce infection numbers to zero, merely to cut the rate, and as soon as the control measures are weakened the growth resumes on the exponential pattern again. 3. The illness caused by covid in unvaccinated people varies considerably with strong correlation to age and underlying conditions. Depending on availability of medical treatment, the death rate across full population caused by the CURRENT strains of covid appears to be anything from 0.1% up to 15%. At present with treatments available in the UK, the death rate appears to be averaging about 2%. The majority of those dying are older people, but not all. There is also a considerably higher rate of serious long term illness and disability occurring in younger people. [Does anyone have any decent figures for this? The government/media seem to say very little on this topic, possibly because while 130,000 dead is damning, having ten or twenty or more times this with long term disability would be utterly crucifying for them]. 4. Unvaccinated people suffering from covid have very high likelihood of shedding high levels of the virus into the atmosphere, apparently even if not showing serious symptoms themselves. This all contributes to the very high infection rate unless draconian infection control procedures are enforced. All the above is very bad already, although the correlation of serious illness/death with age and underlying conditions has led to large number of younger/fitter members of the population appearing to not give a toss, and being quite happy to let the pandemic continue because they feel they personally are in little danger. However: 5. The raw mutation rate of the coronavirus family of viruses is low, which under normal conditions would mean that new strains would be very slow to emerge. But across the globe there have been over a hundred million confirmed cases of covid, probably many more unconfirmed or with low symptomology. Every single one of these cases gives a chance for viral mutation to occur. Low mutation rate multiplied by high number of cases = high rate of new strains emerging. This is very serious, because sooner or later there is almost certain to be strains evolving that are any of (a) more deadly to younger people, (b) resistant to the current treatments, (c) more infectious, (d) resistant to the current vaccines. Point (d) is especially bad because although we are told that the vaccines can be tweaked for new strains, there is a danger that strains may emerge faster than the vaccines can be caught up, and the world will be perpetually on the covid treadmill until some really bad strain emerges and kills huge numbers of the population. NOTE: There has probably never been any virus before that has been simultaneously infecting such a high number of people, since the advent of high speed global movement. Things like the black death and the spanish flu killed millions, but global movement was considerably slower, so that while variants would emerge, those variants would largely remain regional. With covid we see every new variant having global reach within only days. But vaccines can help, and it is incredibly vital that the maximum possible amount of the population are vaccinated: 6. Vaccinated people are much less likely to die or have serious illness. This is good news to older people and those with underlying conditions. By itself this appears to be less vital for younger people [ref. "There's bugger all chance of it killing me, so why should I bother with a vaccine?"]. However issues 1 through 5 above remain - sooner or later covid will explode again, with high likelihood of more dangerous strains emerging, at which time those young/fit people may start dropping by the million. 7. What has been definitely proven now is that although vaccination does not 100% absolutely prevent any particular person catching the virus, being ill, or spreading the virus, it does considerably reduce the chance of catching and spreading. Vaccinated people are less likely to catch covid than unvaccinated people. Vaccinated covid sufferers infect fewer people than unvaccinated covid sufferers. This means that AS LONG AS ENOUGH PEOPLE GET VACCINATED we can throw away all the masks, end the lockdowns, go back to the pub, and the week-on-week infection numbers will still go down rather than going up. This is the HERD IMMUNITY effect, where the disease dies down to the extent that even the unvaccinated people are protected because the likelihood of exposure to an ill person becomes very low. 8. IF AND ONLY IF the global number of cases falls, then the emergence of new strains will happen at slower and slower rates. Which removes the danger of new strains coming faster than vaccines can be tweaked. Which allows more people to be vaccinated before the vaccines need tweaking again. Which reduces the number of cases further etc. This is probably the most important thing because this REDUCES THE CHANCE OF ANY ULTRA DEADLY STRAIN EMERGING. The moral of this story is this: If everyone who can be vaccinated, does get vaccinated, then there is a halfway good chance of the world emerging from the gloom, everyone chucking the masks, and something like normal life resuming. BUT if too many people say "nah, I don't need a vaccine, I'll be okay" then there is a horrible chance that we will never get back to normal, and a growing chance of death on a scale that would dwarf the last twelve months." Finally, someone with the patience and understanding to put it in a clear and concise manner. Thank you | |||
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