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checking vaccinations on phones
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I am truly struggling with this, if you have not had a vaccine you will be a social pariah, some people can't have the vaccinations because of underlying health reasons, also the vaccinations do not stop you catching, carrying or passing on the virus.
As I said I'm struggling with this idea that you will need to prove you have been vaccinated to carry on normal life. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am truly struggling with this, if you have not had a vaccine you will be a social pariah, some people can't have the vaccinations because of underlying health reasons, also the vaccinations do not stop you catching, carrying or passing on the virus.
As I said I'm struggling with this idea that you will need to prove you have been vaccinated to carry on normal life. "
You aren't alone. I'm struggling to see why people don't understand the vaccination properly either. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am truly struggling with this, if you have not had a vaccine you will be a social pariah, some people can't have the vaccinations because of underlying health reasons, also the vaccinations do not stop you catching, carrying or passing on the virus.
As I said I'm struggling with this idea that you will need to prove you have been vaccinated to carry on normal life. "
. I don’t believe for one minute that you will have to prove anything. From the end of june, hopefully, life will return to normal and your health decisions will be your own responsibility. Those who don’t want to risk anything can opt out of life if they choose to. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am truly struggling with this, if you have not had a vaccine you will be a social pariah, some people can't have the vaccinations because of underlying health reasons, also the vaccinations do not stop you catching, carrying or passing on the virus.
As I said I'm struggling with this idea that you will need to prove you have been vaccinated to carry on normal life.
You aren't alone. I'm struggling to see why people don't understand the vaccination properly either."
 |
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By *litterbabeWoman
over a year ago
hiding from cock pics. |
As I understand it, it makes little difference whether you have had the vaccine or not.
You can still catch covid and you can still transmitted covid.
The difference it makes is that you are going to have most likely less symptoms and be less of a burden on the NHS. |
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By *lan157Man
over a year ago
a village near Haywards Heath in East Sussex |
"and so can them that choose no too have the vaccine!!!
why should we go too a club and play a game of roulette in thinking who and hasn't had the vaccine"
You don't have to go to a club . just check vaccine certificates of people you wish to converse with through other methods of meeting people. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"and so can them that choose no too have the vaccine!!!
why should we go too a club and play a game of roulette in thinking who and hasn't had the vaccine"
If you have had the vaccination why are you playing roulette?
Or are you not having the vaccination so only want to meet people that have had it?
You can still catch, carry and transmit covid if you have had the vaccinations.
The whole point of the vaccination is to lessen the burden on NHS and economy by stopping people getting really sick with covid |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As I understand it, it makes little difference whether you have had the vaccine or not.
You can still catch covid and you can still transmitted covid.
The difference it makes is that you are going to have most likely less symptoms and be less of a burden on the NHS."
|
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"we really do hope that too get in clubs you must of had the vaccinations,and this must be applied as club ruling too get in!!!
"
Absolute nonsense ! People are acting like the vaccine is the be all and end all of covid. |
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I'm really not sure what would be the point. A vaccine doesn't necessarily stop you getting the virus or spreading it. You could still be a risk to others in a club or at risk yourself with a vaccine. All a vaccination certificate shows is you have been vaccinated and thus less likely to get harsher symptoms. So this idea to me seems daft. Unless it's goal is to help force vaccine compliance in the population rather than to protect individuals entering. Seems to me all you can do is either accept the risk in a low infection rate environment or not allow entrance without proof of negative test. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm really not sure what would be the point. A vaccine doesn't necessarily stop you getting the virus or spreading it. You could still be a risk to others in a club or at risk yourself with a vaccine. All a vaccination certificate shows is you have been vaccinated and thus less likely to get harsher symptoms. So this idea to me seems daft. Unless it's goal is to help force vaccine compliance in the population rather than to protect individuals entering. Seems to me all you can do is either accept the risk in a low infection rate environment or not allow entrance without proof of negative test."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The latest research shows that people who have had the vaccine are less likely to pass it on to others, I can't understand why people wouldn't have the vaccine |
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By *asIsaCouple
over a year ago
harrow |
"As I understand it, it makes little difference whether you have had the vaccine or not.
You can still catch covid and you can still transmitted covid.
The difference it makes is that you are going to have most likely less symptoms and be less of a burden on the NHS."
Latest figures for both Pfizer and AZ indicate an approx reduction in transmission of 75% which is huge so yes you can still catch and transmit covid but it will be 75% safer |
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Early data suggests that the vaccines will reduce transmission too, partly because they will prevent replication of the virus and therefore reduce viral load. Historically this would be typical expectation of a vaccination programme against any virus too. But it is far too early to be certain of this and the new strains present an ongoing risk. Until the whole worl had been vaccinated 2-3 times and a global vaccination programme can get ahead of the mutations to squash soon after they emerge (maybe 4-5 years, possibly longer), then life will never return to normal, but will of course get better and open up in this country at least. The threat is emergence of new strains imported from low-middle income countries where vaccination programmes will be minimal. We will have to live with that risk for a long time. |
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"As I understand it, it makes little difference whether you have had the vaccine or not.
You can still catch covid and you can still transmitted covid.
The difference it makes is that you are going to have most likely less symptoms and be less of a burden on the NHS.
Latest figures for both Pfizer and AZ indicate an approx reduction in transmission of 75% which is huge so yes you can still catch and transmit covid but it will be 75% safer"
I had my vaccine this morning Pfizer ... and the figures are now sitting at 85% at not contracting or transmitting |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As I understand it, it makes little difference whether you have had the vaccine or not.
You can still catch covid and you can still transmitted covid.
The difference it makes is that you are going to have most likely less symptoms and be less of a burden on the NHS."
Well said |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why don't we just wait and see what the Government and local public health guidelines stipulate as a minimum requirement for venues to open before we speculate ourselves into a frenzy hey? "
It must be a worry for you guys for the possible loss of footfall of people who won't go to a club again if a vaxx is needed for entry? |
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By *indergirlWoman
over a year ago
somewhere, someplace |
"we really do hope that too get in clubs you must of had the vaccinations,and this must be applied as club ruling too get in!!!
How do you check a vaccine on phones?"
I can access my vaccination record on an app for my doctor's |
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"we really do hope that too get in clubs you must of had the vaccinations,and this must be applied as club ruling too get in!!!
I’m not taking any vaccine "
then I suggest you won't be getting into any clubs then ( hopefully) and frankly are not much good at supporting everyone else to get back to living a normal life .. *boos |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Don't take vaccine if you don't want to. Opt out. But also then opt out of receiving any life saving treatment if you catch the vaccine later.."
Not everyone who has the vaccine will need life saving treatment, some will be fine. |
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Vaccination may help you to not get infected at all and to be less infectious to other people. The precise specific benefits of each vaccine are still being researched but appears likely that it's more than just protecting the NHS and prevention of serious illness and death from infection.
The details of how the broad milestones will be implemented may of course change, as could their dates. Private organisations are also able to instigate their own measures too. It's worth keeping an open mind, as we could find out a lot more, as time passes.
It's going to be difficult to prove any status, without an official means to do so. There's no specific plan at present to create 1, that I know of. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I am truly struggling with this, if you have not had a vaccine you will be a social pariah, some people can't have the vaccinations because of underlying health reasons, also the vaccinations do not stop you catching, carrying or passing on the virus.
As I said I'm struggling with this idea that you will need to prove you have been vaccinated to carry on normal life. . I don’t believe for one minute that you will have to prove anything. From the end of june, hopefully, life will return to normal and your health decisions will be your own responsibility. Those who don’t want to risk anything can opt out of life if they choose to. "
It depends on whether you're talking domestically or further afield. I can't see International destinations turning around and saying "oh it's ok, you're from the UK which isn't using proof of vaccination, so come on in". I can see proof of vaccination being compulsory in order to travel abroad, or proof of medical inability.
Which means, if those that chose not to have the vaccine won't be able to travel, so be it. As was said freedom of choice doesn't include freedom from consequence. It may seem harsh but it's also reality and those affected will still be able to get the vaccine if they want their holiday abroad. |
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It's irrelevant what decision the government does or doesn't make with regards to vaccine passports. Private establishments can enforce their own rules without government announcements. The same will apply to foreign travel. Other countries will insist upon it so airlines will follow suit. It's inevitable that clubs over here will install a similar policy if public confidence is greater. Just get vaccinated, simple. |
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By *weedeldumbCouple (MM)
over a year ago
Leeds & Harrogate |
"we really do hope that too get in clubs you must of had the vaccinations,and this must be applied as club ruling too get in!!!
"
As people have already been correctly saying the main issue lies with a large misunderstanding of how the vaccine works and also the legal implications involved here. Particularly with people's rights that are etched in stone in law.
As for the vaccine I can't really add to what people have correctly described, however, on the legal side what the media is 'forgetting' to tell everyone (in their scaremongering tactic haste to increase viewers and readers) is that a 'vaccine passport' would be in direct contravention of the Council of Europe (no that's NOT the EU they are VERY different) and they have already considered this very point:
It is an established principle in English Law that an individual with the capacity to consent cannot and should not be compelled to have any medical treatment against their wishes.
This is further explained by explaining Informed Consent.
The Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 (section 45E) provides that Regulations made under certain sections of that Act “may not include provision requiring a person to undergo medical treatment …. “Medical treatment” includes vaccinations and other
prophylactic treatment”.
The Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe passed Resolution
number 2361 of 2021 on 27 January 2021i
, in which it was stated that:
6.1 Paragraph 7.3.1 - ensure that citizens are informed that the vaccination is NOT mandatory and that no one is politically, socially, or otherwise pressured to get themselves vaccinated, if they do not wish to do so themselves.
6.2 Paragraph 7.3.2 - ensure that no one is discriminated against for not having been
vaccinated, due to possible health risks or not wanting to be vaccinated.
So this is why the Gov responded very clearly to a petition made (well over 360,000 signatures) to reassure there would not be vaccine passports of any kind.
The situation boils down to one simple premise. Life has risks and cannot ever be 100% risk free. Sure, you can take steps to eliminate risk (as is done) but there are no cast iron guarantees. Therefore, and I appreciate this might not be the answer the author and others want to hear, but the only way to avoid any health risks from clubs is to not go. Its as simple as that.
|
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"we really do hope that too get in clubs you must of had the vaccinations,and this must be applied as club ruling too get in!!!
As people have already been correctly saying the main issue lies with a large misunderstanding of how the vaccine works and also the legal implications involved here. Particularly with people's rights that are etched in stone in law.
As for the vaccine I can't really add to what people have correctly described, however, on the legal side what the media is 'forgetting' to tell everyone (in their scaremongering tactic haste to increase viewers and readers) is that a 'vaccine passport' would be in direct contravention of the Council of Europe (no that's NOT the EU they are VERY different) and they have already considered this very point:
It is an established principle in English Law that an individual with the capacity to consent cannot and should not be compelled to have any medical treatment against their wishes.
This is further explained by explaining Informed Consent.
The Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 (section 45E) provides that Regulations made under certain sections of that Act “may not include provision requiring a person to undergo medical treatment …. “Medical treatment” includes vaccinations and other
prophylactic treatment”.
The Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe passed Resolution
number 2361 of 2021 on 27 January 2021i
, in which it was stated that:
6.1 Paragraph 7.3.1 - ensure that citizens are informed that the vaccination is NOT mandatory and that no one is politically, socially, or otherwise pressured to get themselves vaccinated, if they do not wish to do so themselves.
6.2 Paragraph 7.3.2 - ensure that no one is discriminated against for not having been
vaccinated, due to possible health risks or not wanting to be vaccinated.
So this is why the Gov responded very clearly to a petition made (well over 360,000 signatures) to reassure there would not be vaccine passports of any kind.
The situation boils down to one simple premise. Life has risks and cannot ever be 100% risk free. Sure, you can take steps to eliminate risk (as is done) but there are no cast iron guarantees. Therefore, and I appreciate this might not be the answer the author and others want to hear, but the only way to avoid any health risks from clubs is to not go. Its as simple as that.
"
I’m glad someone has pointed this out. The general opinion lately of get vaccinated or be outcast is quite alarming. The pitchfork mentality is very strong here. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"we really do hope that too get in clubs you must of had the vaccinations,and this must be applied as club ruling too get in!!!
As people have already been correctly saying the main issue lies with a large misunderstanding of how the vaccine works and also the legal implications involved here. Particularly with people's rights that are etched in stone in law.
As for the vaccine I can't really add to what people have correctly described, however, on the legal side what the media is 'forgetting' to tell everyone (in their scaremongering tactic haste to increase viewers and readers) is that a 'vaccine passport' would be in direct contravention of the Council of Europe (no that's NOT the EU they are VERY different) and they have already considered this very point:
It is an established principle in English Law that an individual with the capacity to consent cannot and should not be compelled to have any medical treatment against their wishes.
This is further explained by explaining Informed Consent.
The Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 (section 45E) provides that Regulations made under certain sections of that Act “may not include provision requiring a person to undergo medical treatment …. “Medical treatment” includes vaccinations and other
prophylactic treatment”.
The Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe passed Resolution
number 2361 of 2021 on 27 January 2021i
, in which it was stated that:
6.1 Paragraph 7.3.1 - ensure that citizens are informed that the vaccination is NOT mandatory and that no one is politically, socially, or otherwise pressured to get themselves vaccinated, if they do not wish to do so themselves.
6.2 Paragraph 7.3.2 - ensure that no one is discriminated against for not having been
vaccinated, due to possible health risks or not wanting to be vaccinated.
So this is why the Gov responded very clearly to a petition made (well over 360,000 signatures) to reassure there would not be vaccine passports of any kind.
The situation boils down to one simple premise. Life has risks and cannot ever be 100% risk free. Sure, you can take steps to eliminate risk (as is done) but there are no cast iron guarantees. Therefore, and I appreciate this might not be the answer the author and others want to hear, but the only way to avoid any health risks from clubs is to not go. Its as simple as that.
"
Wow I appreciate that thank you |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"we really do hope that too get in clubs you must of had the vaccinations,and this must be applied as club ruling too get in!!!
As people have already been correctly saying the main issue lies with a large misunderstanding of how the vaccine works and also the legal implications involved here. Particularly with people's rights that are etched in stone in law.
As for the vaccine I can't really add to what people have correctly described, however, on the legal side what the media is 'forgetting' to tell everyone (in their scaremongering tactic haste to increase viewers and readers) is that a 'vaccine passport' would be in direct contravention of the Council of Europe (no that's NOT the EU they are VERY different) and they have already considered this very point:
It is an established principle in English Law that an individual with the capacity to consent cannot and should not be compelled to have any medical treatment against their wishes.
This is further explained by explaining Informed Consent.
The Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 (section 45E) provides that Regulations made under certain sections of that Act “may not include provision requiring a person to undergo medical treatment …. “Medical treatment” includes vaccinations and other
prophylactic treatment”.
The Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe passed Resolution
number 2361 of 2021 on 27 January 2021i
, in which it was stated that:
6.1 Paragraph 7.3.1 - ensure that citizens are informed that the vaccination is NOT mandatory and that no one is politically, socially, or otherwise pressured to get themselves vaccinated, if they do not wish to do so themselves.
6.2 Paragraph 7.3.2 - ensure that no one is discriminated against for not having been
vaccinated, due to possible health risks or not wanting to be vaccinated.
So this is why the Gov responded very clearly to a petition made (well over 360,000 signatures) to reassure there would not be vaccine passports of any kind.
The situation boils down to one simple premise. Life has risks and cannot ever be 100% risk free. Sure, you can take steps to eliminate risk (as is done) but there are no cast iron guarantees. Therefore, and I appreciate this might not be the answer the author and others want to hear, but the only way to avoid any health risks from clubs is to not go. Its as simple as that.
I’m glad someone has pointed this out. The general opinion lately of get vaccinated or be outcast is quite alarming. The pitchfork mentality is very strong here. "
The argument is eloquently put, but it still doesn't adress the point that 'if' other countries decide they want to safeguard their populations with the use of vaccine proof by international travellers, then like it or not you'll have to show that proof if you want to travel. It's already compulsory for certain countries, in the form of yellow fever and other disease vaccinations which you have to prove in order to enter, so the legalities mentioned don't prevent it in those cases? |
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"we really do hope that too get in clubs you must of had the vaccinations,and this must be applied as club ruling too get in!!!
"
Unfortunately the effectiveness and power of the vaccines has been over-stated quite drastically.
Many on here are wanting everyone to be vaccinated before being allowed to enter a club on the belief that the club will be Covid (or any disease for that matter) free. It won't. The only way to achieve that 'utopia' is by not having any human beings attend. Like at the moment.
Unfortunately there isn't a 'one fix' answer to what people would ideally like to happen. It does concern me that people have this concept that clubs were all disease free pre-Covid. They weren't. They never have been and likely never will be.
I perfectly understand what people are seeking. I'd like it too. But the actual reality is, we will have to all agree at some point, far different. |
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"we really do hope that too get in clubs you must of had the vaccinations,and this must be applied as club ruling too get in!!!
As people have already been correctly saying the main issue lies with a large misunderstanding of how the vaccine works and also the legal implications involved here. Particularly with people's rights that are etched in stone in law.
As for the vaccine I can't really add to what people have correctly described, however, on the legal side what the media is 'forgetting' to tell everyone (in their scaremongering tactic haste to increase viewers and readers) is that a 'vaccine passport' would be in direct contravention of the Council of Europe (no that's NOT the EU they are VERY different) and they have already considered this very point:
It is an established principle in English Law that an individual with the capacity to consent cannot and should not be compelled to have any medical treatment against their wishes.
This is further explained by explaining Informed Consent.
The Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 (section 45E) provides that Regulations made under certain sections of that Act “may not include provision requiring a person to undergo medical treatment …. “Medical treatment” includes vaccinations and other
prophylactic treatment”.
The Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe passed Resolution
number 2361 of 2021 on 27 January 2021i
, in which it was stated that:
6.1 Paragraph 7.3.1 - ensure that citizens are informed that the vaccination is NOT mandatory and that no one is politically, socially, or otherwise pressured to get themselves vaccinated, if they do not wish to do so themselves.
6.2 Paragraph 7.3.2 - ensure that no one is discriminated against for not having been
vaccinated, due to possible health risks or not wanting to be vaccinated.
So this is why the Gov responded very clearly to a petition made (well over 360,000 signatures) to reassure there would not be vaccine passports of any kind.
The situation boils down to one simple premise. Life has risks and cannot ever be 100% risk free. Sure, you can take steps to eliminate risk (as is done) but there are no cast iron guarantees. Therefore, and I appreciate this might not be the answer the author and others want to hear, but the only way to avoid any health risks from clubs is to not go. Its as simple as that.
"
Oh ffs.
The vaccine is not mandatory. The UK government are not mandating it.
This does not mean that other governments might not mandate it for their citizens or for visitors.
It also doesn't mean that businesses or establishments may not set their own private policies.
Your choice is yours. Your choice comes with consequences. That's not me being evil vaccine forcer, that's literally how the world works with everything. |
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Also, as I've noted many times before, the European Court of Human Rights allows cobsiderable scope for countries to mandate vaccines.
See "Do compulsory vaccinations against COVID-19 violate human rights?
An assessment of the measure’s compatibility with the European Convention on Human Rights" 02.12.2020 on Völkerrechtsblog |
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By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"Why don't we just wait and see what the Government and local public health guidelines stipulate as a minimum requirement for venues to open before we speculate ourselves into a frenzy hey? "
Sounds reasonable |
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By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"Early data suggests that the vaccines will reduce transmission too, partly because they will prevent replication of the virus and therefore reduce viral load. Historically this would be typical expectation of a vaccination programme against any virus too. But it is far too early to be certain of this and the new strains present an ongoing risk. Until the whole worl had been vaccinated 2-3 times and a global vaccination programme can get ahead of the mutations to squash soon after they emerge (maybe 4-5 years, possibly longer), then life will never return to normal, but will of course get better and open up in this country at least. The threat is emergence of new strains imported from low-middle income countries where vaccination programmes will be minimal. We will have to live with that risk for a long time."
|
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"we really do hope that too get in clubs you must of had the vaccinations,and this must be applied as club ruling too get in!!!
"
The issue clubs have in trying to instigate such rules, which on the face of it seems a good idea, is that not everyone can have the vaccine. Even if they want it. The club will be faced with potentially discriminating against what could be a perfectly healthy person from entry on the grounds of a factor they have no ability to change. Big no-no.
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"we really do hope that too get in clubs you must of had the vaccinations,and this must be applied as club ruling too get in!!!
The issue clubs have in trying to instigate such rules, which on the face of it seems a good idea, is that not everyone can have the vaccine. Even if they want it. The club will be faced with potentially discriminating against what could be a perfectly healthy person from entry on the grounds of a factor they have no ability to change. Big no-no.
"
That's really, spectacularly easy. Precedent exists in countries where mandates exist.
You are provided entry upon proof of vaccination or medical exemption.
As people keep saying, nothing is without risk. I'm happy to take the risk that the medically exempt pose: it's small and it's not preventable without discrimination. |
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"we really do hope that too get in clubs you must of had the vaccinations,and this must be applied as club ruling too get in!!!
Unfortunately the effectiveness and power of the vaccines has been over-stated quite drastically.
Many on here are wanting everyone to be vaccinated before being allowed to enter a club on the belief that the club will be Covid (or any disease for that matter) free. It won't. The only way to achieve that 'utopia' is by not having any human beings attend. Like at the moment.
Unfortunately there isn't a 'one fix' answer to what people would ideally like to happen. It does concern me that people have this concept that clubs were all disease free pre-Covid. They weren't. They never have been and likely never will be.
I perfectly understand what people are seeking. I'd like it too. But the actual reality is, we will have to all agree at some point, far different. "
Its the test that should be made compulsory, once they have worked out the viral loads in transmission on the studies, the tests can be tweaked. I would expect people to pay for one at the door before they go in, same as all travelling abroad should be.
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By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
" Therefore, and I appreciate this might not be the answer the author and others want to hear, but the only way to avoid any health risks from clubs is to not go. Its as simple as that.
Oh ffs.
The vaccine is not mandatory. The UK government are not mandating it.
This does not mean that other governments might not mandate it for their citizens or for visitors.
It also doesn't mean that businesses or establishments may not set their own private policies.
Your choice is yours. Your choice comes with consequences. That's not me being evil vaccine forcer, that's literally how the world works with everything."
Yep, foreign governments and private business may be able to make it mandatory in certain scenarios.
Insurance companies can also make it a requirement before they give you cover in some instances. |
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" Therefore, and I appreciate this might not be the answer the author and others want to hear, but the only way to avoid any health risks from clubs is to not go. Its as simple as that.
Oh ffs.
The vaccine is not mandatory. The UK government are not mandating it.
This does not mean that other governments might not mandate it for their citizens or for visitors.
It also doesn't mean that businesses or establishments may not set their own private policies.
Your choice is yours. Your choice comes with consequences. That's not me being evil vaccine forcer, that's literally how the world works with everything.
Yep, foreign governments and private business may be able to make it mandatory in certain scenarios.
Insurance companies can also make it a requirement before they give you cover in some instances. "
I think some people equate "people think I made the wrong decision" with, like, literal forcible vaccination in a police state.
There's many, many steps in between those things.
People are allowed to think what they like about other's choices, businesses and establishments may be allowed to deny employment or entry based on vaccination status (unclear at the moment), other countries can and will impose requirements on those who aren't vaccinated.
... And it's still your choice whether you get the vaccine or not. |
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"The vaccine just lower the symptoms, a person still have to have a mask and keep there distance."
It's very exciting: studies are showing that this is a cautious approach and that viral replication and transmission look like they're reduced by the vaccines.
We just need enough people vaccinated  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The vaccine just lower the symptoms, a person still have to have a mask and keep there distance."
It's looking more and more likely that the vaccines currently being used In the UK do stop transmission quite considerably.
Also the government have announced they are looking in to the possibility of vaccine passport to be able to get into certain venues. |
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"The vaccine just lower the symptoms, a person still have to have a mask and keep there distance.
It's looking more and more likely that the vaccines currently being used In the UK do stop transmission quite considerably.
Also the government have announced they are looking in to the possibility of vaccine passport to be able to get into certain venues."
I also heard recently that none of the classic vaccines - measles, polio, etc - were never tested for transmission reduction, only reducing severity of disease.
Obviously if the Covid vaccines aren't worthwhile if they don't reduce transmission, then measles (R0 of 15-20 versus Covid R0 of 2-3) is worse and measles is everywhere.
Isn't it?
... Umm... Measles... Where are you? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The vaccine just lower the symptoms, a person still have to have a mask and keep there distance.
It's looking more and more likely that the vaccines currently being used In the UK do stop transmission quite considerably.
Also the government have announced they are looking in to the possibility of vaccine passport to be able to get into certain venues."
The vaccine passport is an old crazy tin hatted conspiracy theory, it will never happen. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The vaccine just lower the symptoms, a person still have to have a mask and keep there distance.
It's looking more and more likely that the vaccines currently being used In the UK do stop transmission quite considerably.
Also the government have announced they are looking in to the possibility of vaccine passport to be able to get into certain venues.
The vaccine passport is an old crazy tin hatted conspiracy theory, it will never happen."
Its been announced today that a review into vaccine passports has started and being headed up by Michael Gove. Its not a conspiracy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The vaccine just lower the symptoms, a person still have to have a mask and keep there distance.
It's looking more and more likely that the vaccines currently being used In the UK do stop transmission quite considerably.
Also the government have announced they are looking in to the possibility of vaccine passport to be able to get into certain venues.
The vaccine passport is an old crazy tin hatted conspiracy theory, it will never happen.
Its been announced today that a review into vaccine passports has started and being headed up by Michael Gove. Its not a conspiracy. "
So the tin hatted conspriracy nutters are right about vaccine passports |
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"The vaccine just lower the symptoms, a person still have to have a mask and keep there distance.
It's looking more and more likely that the vaccines currently being used In the UK do stop transmission quite considerably.
Also the government have announced they are looking in to the possibility of vaccine passport to be able to get into certain venues.
The vaccine passport is an old crazy tin hatted conspiracy theory, it will never happen.
Its been announced today that a review into vaccine passports has started and being headed up by Michael Gove. Its not a conspiracy.
So the tin hatted conspriracy nutters are right about vaccine passports "
Positions change. Shocking  |
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"we really do hope that too get in clubs you must of had the vaccinations,and this must be applied as club ruling too get in!!!
As people have already been correctly saying the main issue lies with a large misunderstanding of how the vaccine works and also the legal implications involved here. Particularly with people's rights that are etched in stone in law.
As for the vaccine I can't really add to what people have correctly described, however, on the legal side what the media is 'forgetting' to tell everyone (in their scaremongering tactic haste to increase viewers and readers) is that a 'vaccine passport' would be in direct contravention of the Council of Europe (no that's NOT the EU they are VERY different) and they have already considered this very point:
It is an established principle in English Law that an individual with the capacity to consent cannot and should not be compelled to have any medical treatment against their wishes.
This is further explained by explaining Informed Consent.
The Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 (section 45E) provides that Regulations made under certain sections of that Act “may not include provision requiring a person to undergo medical treatment …. “Medical treatment” includes vaccinations and other
prophylactic treatment”.
The Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe passed Resolution
number 2361 of 2021 on 27 January 2021i
, in which it was stated that:
6.1 Paragraph 7.3.1 - ensure that citizens are informed that the vaccination is NOT mandatory and that no one is politically, socially, or otherwise pressured to get themselves vaccinated, if they do not wish to do so themselves.
6.2 Paragraph 7.3.2 - ensure that no one is discriminated against for not having been
vaccinated, due to possible health risks or not wanting to be vaccinated.
So this is why the Gov responded very clearly to a petition made (well over 360,000 signatures) to reassure there would not be vaccine passports of any kind.
The situation boils down to one simple premise. Life has risks and cannot ever be 100% risk free. Sure, you can take steps to eliminate risk (as is done) but there are no cast iron guarantees. Therefore, and I appreciate this might not be the answer the author and others want to hear, but the only way to avoid any health risks from clubs is to not go. Its as simple as that.
I’m glad someone has pointed this out. The general opinion lately of get vaccinated or be outcast is quite alarming. The pitchfork mentality is very strong here.
The argument is eloquently put, but it still doesn't adress the point that 'if' other countries decide they want to safeguard their populations with the use of vaccine proof by international travellers, then like it or not you'll have to show that proof if you want to travel. It's already compulsory for certain countries, in the form of yellow fever and other disease vaccinations which you have to prove in order to enter, so the legalities mentioned don't prevent it in those cases?"
Different countries have different laws.
You have to abide by local laws. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The vaccine just lower the symptoms, a person still have to have a mask and keep there distance.
It's looking more and more likely that the vaccines currently being used In the UK do stop transmission quite considerably.
Also the government have announced they are looking in to the possibility of vaccine passport to be able to get into certain venues."
Boris has said that nobody should be discriminated against for not having a vaccination?
Begs the question why have a passport in the first place |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"we really do hope that too get in clubs you must of had the vaccinations,and this must be applied as club ruling too get in!!!
As people have already been correctly saying the main issue lies with a large misunderstanding of how the vaccine works and also the legal implications involved here. Particularly with people's rights that are etched in stone in law.
As for the vaccine I can't really add to what people have correctly described, however, on the legal side what the media is 'forgetting' to tell everyone (in their scaremongering tactic haste to increase viewers and readers) is that a 'vaccine passport' would be in direct contravention of the Council of Europe (no that's NOT the EU they are VERY different) and they have already considered this very point:
It is an established principle in English Law that an individual with the capacity to consent cannot and should not be compelled to have any medical treatment against their wishes.
This is further explained by explaining Informed Consent.
The Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 (section 45E) provides that Regulations made under certain sections of that Act “may not include provision requiring a person to undergo medical treatment …. “Medical treatment” includes vaccinations and other
prophylactic treatment”.
The Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe passed Resolution
number 2361 of 2021 on 27 January 2021i
, in which it was stated that:
6.1 Paragraph 7.3.1 - ensure that citizens are informed that the vaccination is NOT mandatory and that no one is politically, socially, or otherwise pressured to get themselves vaccinated, if they do not wish to do so themselves.
6.2 Paragraph 7.3.2 - ensure that no one is discriminated against for not having been
vaccinated, due to possible health risks or not wanting to be vaccinated.
So this is why the Gov responded very clearly to a petition made (well over 360,000 signatures) to reassure there would not be vaccine passports of any kind.
The situation boils down to one simple premise. Life has risks and cannot ever be 100% risk free. Sure, you can take steps to eliminate risk (as is done) but there are no cast iron guarantees. Therefore, and I appreciate this might not be the answer the author and others want to hear, but the only way to avoid any health risks from clubs is to not go. Its as simple as that.
I’m glad someone has pointed this out. The general opinion lately of get vaccinated or be outcast is quite alarming. The pitchfork mentality is very strong here.
The argument is eloquently put, but it still doesn't adress the point that 'if' other countries decide they want to safeguard their populations with the use of vaccine proof by international travellers, then like it or not you'll have to show that proof if you want to travel. It's already compulsory for certain countries, in the form of yellow fever and other disease vaccinations which you have to prove in order to enter, so the legalities mentioned don't prevent it in those cases?
Different countries have different laws.
You have to abide by local laws."
Precisely, so if say France decide by law you need vaccination proof to enter their country, you have to abide by their law and provide vaccination proof. |
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"The vaccine just lower the symptoms, a person still have to have a mask and keep there distance.
It's looking more and more likely that the vaccines currently being used In the UK do stop transmission quite considerably.
Also the government have announced they are looking in to the possibility of vaccine passport to be able to get into certain venues.
Boris has said that nobody should be discriminated against for not having a vaccination?
Begs the question why have a passport in the first place "
Yes. If vaccine passports come in in the UK, it will by definition imply differentiating those who haven't had a vaccine.
Either it won't come in or it'll amount to "congratulations, you have a certificate saying you're a human" (has been vaccinated, can't be vaccinated, has refused the vaccine is 100% of the population) |
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By *sm265Woman
over a year ago
Shangri-la |
"we really do hope that too get in clubs you must of had the vaccinations,and this must be applied as club ruling too get in!!!
As people have already been correctly saying the main issue lies with a large misunderstanding of how the vaccine works and also the legal implications involved here. Particularly with people's rights that are etched in stone in law.
As for the vaccine I can't really add to what people have correctly described, however, on the legal side what the media is 'forgetting' to tell everyone (in their scaremongering tactic haste to increase viewers and readers) is that a 'vaccine passport' would be in direct contravention of the Council of Europe (no that's NOT the EU they are VERY different) and they have already considered this very point:
It is an established principle in English Law that an individual with the capacity to consent cannot and should not be compelled to have any medical treatment against their wishes.
This is further explained by explaining Informed Consent.
The Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 (section 45E) provides that Regulations made under certain sections of that Act “may not include provision requiring a person to undergo medical treatment …. “Medical treatment” includes vaccinations and other
prophylactic treatment”.
The Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe passed Resolution
number 2361 of 2021 on 27 January 2021i
, in which it was stated that:
6.1 Paragraph 7.3.1 - ensure that citizens are informed that the vaccination is NOT mandatory and that no one is politically, socially, or otherwise pressured to get themselves vaccinated, if they do not wish to do so themselves.
6.2 Paragraph 7.3.2 - ensure that no one is discriminated against for not having been
vaccinated, due to possible health risks or not wanting to be vaccinated.
So this is why the Gov responded very clearly to a petition made (well over 360,000 signatures) to reassure there would not be vaccine passports of any kind.
The situation boils down to one simple premise. Life has risks and cannot ever be 100% risk free. Sure, you can take steps to eliminate risk (as is done) but there are no cast iron guarantees. Therefore, and I appreciate this might not be the answer the author and others want to hear, but the only way to avoid any health risks from clubs is to not go. Its as simple as that.
I’m glad someone has pointed this out. The general opinion lately of get vaccinated or be outcast is quite alarming. The pitchfork mentality is very strong here.
The argument is eloquently put, but it still doesn't adress the point that 'if' other countries decide they want to safeguard their populations with the use of vaccine proof by international travellers, then like it or not you'll have to show that proof if you want to travel. It's already compulsory for certain countries, in the form of yellow fever and other disease vaccinations which you have to prove in order to enter, so the legalities mentioned don't prevent it in those cases?
Different countries have different laws.
You have to abide by local laws.
Precisely, so if say France decide by law you need vaccination proof to enter their country, you have to abide by their law and provide vaccination proof."
But you don't have to go to France |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"we really do hope that too get in clubs you must of had the vaccinations,and this must be applied as club ruling too get in!!!
As people have already been correctly saying the main issue lies with a large misunderstanding of how the vaccine works and also the legal implications involved here. Particularly with people's rights that are etched in stone in law.
As for the vaccine I can't really add to what people have correctly described, however, on the legal side what the media is 'forgetting' to tell everyone (in their scaremongering tactic haste to increase viewers and readers) is that a 'vaccine passport' would be in direct contravention of the Council of Europe (no that's NOT the EU they are VERY different) and they have already considered this very point:
It is an established principle in English Law that an individual with the capacity to consent cannot and should not be compelled to have any medical treatment against their wishes.
This is further explained by explaining Informed Consent.
The Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 (section 45E) provides that Regulations made under certain sections of that Act “may not include provision requiring a person to undergo medical treatment …. “Medical treatment” includes vaccinations and other
prophylactic treatment”.
The Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe passed Resolution
number 2361 of 2021 on 27 January 2021i
, in which it was stated that:
6.1 Paragraph 7.3.1 - ensure that citizens are informed that the vaccination is NOT mandatory and that no one is politically, socially, or otherwise pressured to get themselves vaccinated, if they do not wish to do so themselves.
6.2 Paragraph 7.3.2 - ensure that no one is discriminated against for not having been
vaccinated, due to possible health risks or not wanting to be vaccinated.
So this is why the Gov responded very clearly to a petition made (well over 360,000 signatures) to reassure there would not be vaccine passports of any kind.
The situation boils down to one simple premise. Life has risks and cannot ever be 100% risk free. Sure, you can take steps to eliminate risk (as is done) but there are no cast iron guarantees. Therefore, and I appreciate this might not be the answer the author and others want to hear, but the only way to avoid any health risks from clubs is to not go. Its as simple as that.
I’m glad someone has pointed this out. The general opinion lately of get vaccinated or be outcast is quite alarming. The pitchfork mentality is very strong here.
The argument is eloquently put, but it still doesn't adress the point that 'if' other countries decide they want to safeguard their populations with the use of vaccine proof by international travellers, then like it or not you'll have to show that proof if you want to travel. It's already compulsory for certain countries, in the form of yellow fever and other disease vaccinations which you have to prove in order to enter, so the legalities mentioned don't prevent it in those cases?
Different countries have different laws.
You have to abide by local laws.
Precisely, so if say France decide by law you need vaccination proof to enter their country, you have to abide by their law and provide vaccination proof.
But you don't have to go to France "
You don't 'have' to go anywhere on holiday, but the vast majority of people surprisingly enjoy getting away. |
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"
But you don't have to go to France
You don't 'have' to go anywhere on holiday, but the vast majority of people surprisingly enjoy getting away."
You also don't have to go to sporting events, swinging clubs, pubs, or whatever other establishment might consider bringing such a rule in. |
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"The latest research shows that people who have had the vaccine are less likely to pass it on to others, I can't understand why people wouldn't have the vaccine"
I seid the same on another thred(and also got ignored lol) why would someone who can take it, not take it knowing it will keep there frinds and familys safe, just a little thing for them to think about even Trump could see the bigger picture and had it  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The latest research shows that people who have had the vaccine are less likely to pass it on to others, I can't understand why people wouldn't have the vaccine
I seid the same on another thred(and also got ignored lol) why would someone who can take it, not take it knowing it will keep there frinds and familys safe, just a little thing for them to think about even Trump could see the bigger picture and had it "
|
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"I am truly struggling with this, if you have not had a vaccine you will be a social pariah, some people can't have the vaccinations because of underlying health reasons, also the vaccinations do not stop you catching, carrying or passing on the virus.
As I said I'm struggling with this idea that you will need to prove you have been vaccinated to carry on normal life. . I don’t believe for one minute that you will have to prove anything. From the end of june, hopefully, life will return to normal and your health decisions will be your own responsibility. Those who don’t want to risk anything can opt out of life if they choose to. "
I'd say the opposite is true.. People will be forced to opt out initially and then things will change
Think about this..
If more people who have been vaccinated object to businesses without checks or tests and decide to boycott those places because of that.
Then the businesses get less business and make less money don't they? No business owner will allow that.
So logically they will then be stopping the people who aren't vaccinated or refuse testing coming in to their establishments won't they!
Which will mean only people who can prove they are in good health will be admitted.. For a while at least
Its whoever holds the majority that will win this and the majority of ' popular opinion' situations the just the people standing up for their rights etc will be very much in the minority etc
So.. I CAN actually see this or a variation of it happening by this time next year . And that isn't such a bad thing as far as I'm concerned.
|
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"So when will most of had both jabs and possibly a booster.
Or ate you thinking one jab good to go. Not seen numbers but how meany have had both jabs?"
About 600k have had two jabs so far, last I looked.
I'm not moving forward until I've had two jabs plus mounted immunity. |
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"and so can them that choose no too have the vaccine!!!
why should we go too a club and play a game of roulette in thinking who and hasn't had the vaccine"
We are all playing roulette at clubs with STD's A condom offers some protection but isn't 100% the same as the vaccine isn't |
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"and so can them that choose no too have the vaccine!!!
why should we go too a club and play a game of roulette in thinking who and hasn't had the vaccine
We are all playing roulette at clubs with STD's A condom offers some protection but isn't 100% the same as the vaccine isn't "
Yup.
Condoms reduce risk. Vaccines reduce risk. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The latest research shows that people who have had the vaccine are less likely to pass it on to others, I can't understand why people wouldn't have the vaccine"
I have a friend on immuno supression drugs for other condition and his consultant told him that theres no point him having covid jabs because it won't work as his strong meds would kill it off. |
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I have to prove i hve had some vaccines to travel to or between other countries, why is the thought of proving you have had a covid vaccine any different?
And why not apply the same to venues, clubs, theatres?
Like a country protecting its population, employers have a duty of care to their staff and customers to protect them from harm..
Its really a no brainer. |
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