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Illegal Immigrants,
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"How many in this country that will not be getting any jabs? To do so lends them liable to be caught. The hidden disease spreaders. " Insist they wear a condom amd you’ll be ok  | |||
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"How many in this country that will not be getting any jabs? To do so lends them liable to be caught. The hidden disease spreaders. Insist they wear a condom amd you’ll be ok " | |||
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"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us." That’ll be that thread sorted...... But I bet it’s not  | |||
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"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. That’ll be that thread sorted...... But I bet it’s not "Lol | |||
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"How many in this country that will not be getting any jabs? To do so lends them liable to be caught. The hidden disease spreaders. Insist they wear a condom amd you’ll be ok "
Would add, Op wait till after lockdown before you go looking to meet these 'disease spreaders'.. | |||
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"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. That’ll be that thread sorted...... But I bet it’s not "Nothing to see here lol  | |||
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"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. That’ll be that thread sorted...... But I bet it’s not
Nothing to see here lol "Apart from the racist c... | |||
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"How many in this country that will not be getting any jabs? To do so lends them liable to be caught. The hidden disease spreaders. " Because they're the problem, not the tiny minded natives of this fine nation, right Terry?  | |||
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"It is thought that undocumented imigrants account for around 1% of the total population of the UK. The impact that their "not being vaccinated" would have on the total health of the population is negligible. Cal" | |||
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"How many in this country that will not be getting any jabs? To do so lends them liable to be caught. The hidden disease spreaders. " Why did you post this Terry? | |||
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"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us." Yes they have. I saw that in Southampton the street homeless healthcare team were offering jabs straight away to the homeless regardless of immigration status or being registered with a doctor. | |||
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"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. ------- Yes they have. I saw that in Southampton the street homeless healthcare team were offering jabs straight away to the homeless regardless of immigration status or being registered with a doctor. " I hadn't heard about this, but "that's great" Cal | |||
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"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. Yes they have. I saw that in Southampton the street homeless healthcare team were offering jabs straight away to the homeless regardless of immigration status or being registered with a doctor. " Good, the OP can rest easy now | |||
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"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. ------- Yes they have. I saw that in Southampton the street homeless healthcare team were offering jabs straight away to the homeless regardless of immigration status or being registered with a doctor. I hadn't heard about this, but "that's great" Cal" They were offering in the day center yesterday and have been doing street clinics as the feeling is its better to go to were people who might be very unlikely to engage with services are. | |||
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"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. ------- Yes they have. I saw that in Southampton the street homeless healthcare team were offering jabs straight away to the homeless regardless of immigration status or being registered with a doctor. I hadn't heard about this, but "that's great" Cal" Same up here in Greater Manchester, the councils have been working with their homeless support teams to get the vaccines out ASAP. | |||
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"How many in this country that will not be getting any jabs? To do so lends them liable to be caught. The hidden disease spreaders. " Not going as planned? | |||
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"Maybe they’ll come for his NHS next? Or a 2 bed flat that he doesn’t need himself anyway?" Or maybe they'll train to be the doctor or nurse who saves his life as a part of the NHS in a couple of years time. | |||
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"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. That’ll be that thread sorted...... But I bet it’s not
Nothing to see here lol
Apart from the racist c..."A concern over immigration- legal or not, is not racist. | |||
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"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. ------- Yes they have. I saw that in Southampton the street homeless healthcare team were offering jabs straight away to the homeless regardless of immigration status or being registered with a doctor. I hadn't heard about this, but "that's great" Cal Same up here in Greater Manchester, the councils have been working with their homeless support teams to get the vaccines out ASAP." Yes I have to say the vaccine roll out and the fact "hard to reach" groups are being focused on is definitely a very good thing. | |||
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"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. That’ll be that thread sorted...... But I bet it’s not
Nothing to see here lol
Apart from the racist c...
A concern over immigration- legal or not, is not racist. "Calling them Disease spreaders on the other hand... | |||
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"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. That’ll be that thread sorted...... But I bet it’s not
Nothing to see here lol
Apart from the racist c...
A concern over immigration- legal or not, is not racist. "implication of hidden diseases spreaders.. | |||
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"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. That’ll be that thread sorted...... But I bet it’s not
Nothing to see here lol
Apart from the racist c...
A concern over immigration- legal or not, is not racist. "I'd say calling them disease spreaders was probally borderline. | |||
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"It is thought that undocumented imigrants account for around 1% of the total population of the UK. The impact that their "not being vaccinated" would have on the total health of the population is negligible. Cal" | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 18/02/21 17:47:45]" I saw it.
Great minds think a like. | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 18/02/21 17:47:45] I saw it.
Great minds think a like. " | |||
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"Any thing that helps the spread and saves lives is good this should be done at walk in centres as well " I think it will be eventually. | |||
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"Any thing that helps the spread and saves lives is good this should be done at walk in centres as well I think it will be eventually. " I'd like to see the military just roaming the streets with dart guns
Cal | |||
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"Any thing that helps the spread and saves lives is good this should be done at walk in centres as well I think it will be eventually. I'd like to see the military just roaming the streets with dart guns
Cal"To catch all the diggers from here? | |||
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"Any thing that helps the spread and saves lives is good this should be done at walk in centres as well I think it will be eventually. I'd like to see the military just roaming the streets with dart guns
Cal"Sounds like a good plan. | |||
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"Any thing that helps the spread and saves lives is good this should be done at walk in centres as well I think it will be eventually. I'd like to see the military just roaming the streets with dart guns
Cal"I know a vet that could do that  | |||
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"I'm more worried about people flying in." Yep. New Zealand (I’m aware they’re a lot smaller) got it right. And citywide lockdown for 2 detected cases. Hats off to that woman. | |||
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"How many in this country that will not be getting any jabs? To do so lends them liable to be caught. The hidden disease spreaders. " If you’re after a number, I don’t know. If it’s a rhetorical question with any undertones / leading towards division, I’m out. And there are more ‘hidden disease spreaders’ out there, than illegal immigrants. Crazy I know | |||
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"Any thing that helps the spread and saves lives is good this should be done at walk in centres as well I think it will be eventually. I'd like to see the military just roaming the streets with dart guns
Cal
I know a vet that could do that "Get the doggers with dart guns? Think of the poor vers. They have enough PTSD from putting down animals, having them walk through what is essentially a live fabswingers new photo feed is just harsh. | |||
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"How many in this country that will not be getting any jabs? To do so lends them liable to be caught. The hidden disease spreaders. Why did you post this Terry? " Because I have been amongst these people. and I am not a racist, doesn't matter to me colour race or creed. They are Illegal Immigrants who have entered this country and should not be here as many do not contribute to this country. Many only take from us, the legal people in this country. Are they worried about you catching Covid you should ask yourself. That is why I asked the question! | |||
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"It is thought that undocumented imigrants account for around 1% of the total population of the UK. The impact that their "not being vaccinated" would have on the total health of the population is negligible. Cal" So about 700.000 people then. Say 5000 per major city, and if 10% are infected, thats a fair few folk spreading it over a fair few cities but hey, a few folk wanting to meet off here are the real spreaders... and no, im not looking to meet | |||
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"Glad to hear they are actually getting to these people and giving them the Vaccine and I hope they carry on doing it dont forget many of them (the homeless) are UK residents or were, some even fought for this country. YES I will rest easier. Nobody has reported this on the TV that I have seen. " BBC news has at least once. Our local BBC news has more than once | |||
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"Bloody immigrants, coming over here and taking our vaccinations without facing deportation. Terry and Sheila, white British Boomers, are up in arms about such liberties, even though though they're refusing the vaccine because of something someone said about Bill Gates on YouTube." | |||
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"How many in this country that will not be getting any jabs? To do so lends them liable to be caught. The hidden disease spreaders. Why did you post this Terry? Because I have been amongst these people. and I am not a racist, doesn't matter to me colour race or creed. They are Illegal Immigrants who have entered this country and should not be here as many do not contribute to this country. Many only take from us, the legal people in this country. Are they worried about you catching Covid you should ask yourself. That is why I asked the question! " Maybe if hadn't have bombed their homeland or set the middle east on fire..they may have stayed at home? | |||
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"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. ------- Yes they have. I saw that in Southampton the street homeless healthcare team were offering jabs straight away to the homeless regardless of immigration status or being registered with a doctor. I hadn't heard about this, but "that's great" Cal They were offering in the day center yesterday and have been doing street clinics as the feeling is its better to go to were people who might be very unlikely to engage with services are. " Are you saying that they can just walk in to a centre and get a vax when 1000s of Brits are waiting on their turn ? Must surely be BS | |||
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"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. ------- Yes they have. I saw that in Southampton the street homeless healthcare team were offering jabs straight away to the homeless regardless of immigration status or being registered with a doctor. I hadn't heard about this, but "that's great" Cal They were offering in the day center yesterday and have been doing street clinics as the feeling is its better to go to were people who might be very unlikely to engage with services are. Are you saying that they can just walk in to a centre and get a vax when 1000s of Brits are waiting on their turn ? Must surely be BS" They’re.. homeless. Like.. that puts them at severe risk. | |||
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"Bloody immigrants, coming over here and taking our vaccinations without facing deportation. Terry and Sheila, white British Boomers, are up in arms about such liberties, even though though they're refusing the vaccine because of something someone said about Bill Gates on YouTube." | |||
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"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. ------- Yes they have. I saw that in Southampton the street homeless healthcare team were offering jabs straight away to the homeless regardless of immigration status or being registered with a doctor. I hadn't heard about this, but "that's great" Cal They were offering in the day center yesterday and have been doing street clinics as the feeling is its better to go to were people who might be very unlikely to engage with services are. Are you saying that they can just walk in to a centre and get a vax when 1000s of Brits are waiting on their turn ? Must surely be BS" no thats not what I'm saying at all. | |||
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"Glad to hear they are actually getting to these people and giving them the Vaccine and I hope they carry on doing it dont forget many of them (the homeless) are UK residents or were, some even fought for this country. YES I will rest easier. Nobody has reported this on the TV that I have seen. " It was on BBC news 3 days ago. | |||
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"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. ------- Yes they have. I saw that in Southampton the street homeless healthcare team were offering jabs straight away to the homeless regardless of immigration status or being registered with a doctor. I hadn't heard about this, but "that's great" Cal They were offering in the day center yesterday and have been doing street clinics as the feeling is its better to go to were people who might be very unlikely to engage with services are. Are you saying that they can just walk in to a centre and get a vax when 1000s of Brits are waiting on their turn ? Must surely be BS no thats not what I'm saying at all. "But surely that doesn’t matter, because you know, we’re decent people and understand needs and support that people need? No? | |||
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"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. ------- Yes they have. I saw that in Southampton the street homeless healthcare team were offering jabs straight away to the homeless regardless of immigration status or being registered with a doctor. I hadn't heard about this, but "that's great" Cal They were offering in the day center yesterday and have been doing street clinics as the feeling is its better to go to were people who might be very unlikely to engage with services are. Are you saying that they can just walk in to a centre and get a vax when 1000s of Brits are waiting on their turn ? Must surely be BS no thats not what I'm saying at all.
But surely that doesn’t matter, because you know, we’re decent people and understand needs and support that people need? No? "What? I'm say homeless people regardless of immigration status are being offered the vaccine. If someone who has no legal residence (which an undocumented person will not have) they are being offered the vaccine. What I'm not saying is they are ahead of non vaunable white people because these people are vaunable regardless of their status. | |||
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"How many in this country that will not be getting any jabs? To do so lends them liable to be caught. The hidden disease spreaders. Why did you post this Terry? Because I have been amongst these people. and I am not a racist, doesn't matter to me colour race or creed. They are Illegal Immigrants who have entered this country and should not be here as many do not contribute to this country. Many only take from us, the legal people in this country. Are they worried about you catching Covid you should ask yourself. That is why I asked the question! Maybe if hadn't have bombed their homeland or set the middle east on fire..they may have stayed at home?" OR.....stopped ISIS from taking over and destroying the Middle East and killing how many in the homeland and abroad.... | |||
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"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. ------- Yes they have. I saw that in Southampton the street homeless healthcare team were offering jabs straight away to the homeless regardless of immigration status or being registered with a doctor. I hadn't heard about this, but "that's great" Cal They were offering in the day center yesterday and have been doing street clinics as the feeling is its better to go to were people who might be very unlikely to engage with services are. Are you saying that they can just walk in to a centre and get a vax when 1000s of Brits are waiting on their turn ? Must surely be BS no thats not what I'm saying at all.
But surely that doesn’t matter, because you know, we’re decent people and understand needs and support that people need? No?
What? I'm say homeless people regardless of immigration status are being offered the vaccine.
If someone who has no legal residence (which an undocumented person will not have) they are being offered the vaccine.
What I'm not saying is they are ahead of non vaunable white people because these people are vaunable regardless of their status. "I’m agreeing. Because it’s the right thing. | |||
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". What I'm not saying is they are ahead of non vaunable white people because these people are vaunable regardless of their status. " They don’t seem to want them anyway. | |||
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"Bloody immigrants, coming over here and taking our vaccinations without facing deportation. Terry and Sheila, white British Boomers, are up in arms about such liberties, even though though they're refusing the vaccine because of something someone said about Bill Gates on YouTube."
Best comment of the day if not the year. | |||
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"How many in this country that will not be getting any jabs? To do so lends them liable to be caught. The hidden disease spreaders. Why did you post this Terry? Because I have been amongst these people. and I am not a racist, doesn't matter to me colour race or creed. They are Illegal Immigrants who have entered this country and should not be here as many do not contribute to this country. Many only take from us, the legal people in this country. Are they worried about you catching Covid you should ask yourself. That is why I asked the question! Maybe if hadn't have bombed their homeland or set the middle east on fire..they may have stayed at home? OR.....stopped ISIS from taking over and destroying the Middle East and killing how many in the homeland and abroad...." This the same isis we helped to create? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"How many in this country that will not be getting any jabs? To do so lends them liable to be caught. The hidden disease spreaders. Why did you post this Terry? Because I have been amongst these people. and I am not a racist, doesn't matter to me colour race or creed. They are Illegal Immigrants who have entered this country and should not be here as many do not contribute to this country. Many only take from us, the legal people in this country. Are they worried about you catching Covid you should ask yourself. That is why I asked the question! Maybe if hadn't have bombed their homeland or set the middle east on fire..they may have stayed at home? OR.....stopped ISIS from taking over and destroying the Middle East and killing how many in the homeland and abroad.... This the same isis we helped to create?" The ideals have run for centuries, isis is just the latest incarnation... middle east has never seen prolonged peace and its bound to be the fucking English that are to blame lol | |||
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"How many in this country that will not be getting any jabs? To do so lends them liable to be caught. The hidden disease spreaders. Why did you post this Terry? Because I have been amongst these people. and I am not a racist, doesn't matter to me colour race or creed. They are Illegal Immigrants who have entered this country and should not be here as many do not contribute to this country. Many only take from us, the legal people in this country. Are they worried about you catching Covid you should ask yourself. That is why I asked the question! Maybe if hadn't have bombed their homeland or set the middle east on fire..they may have stayed at home? OR.....stopped ISIS from taking over and destroying the Middle East and killing how many in the homeland and abroad.... This the same isis we helped to create? The ideals have run for centuries, isis is just the latest incarnation... middle east has never seen prolonged peace and its bound to be the fucking English that are to blame lol "ISIS came to prominence after the invasion in Iraq. We helped to create a monster and complain when its victims seek shelter. | |||
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"How many in this country that will not be getting any jabs? To do so lends them liable to be caught. The hidden disease spreaders. Why did you post this Terry? Because I have been amongst these people. and I am not a racist, doesn't matter to me colour race or creed. They are Illegal Immigrants who have entered this country and should not be here as many do not contribute to this country. Many only take from us, the legal people in this country. Are they worried about you catching Covid you should ask yourself. That is why I asked the question! Maybe if hadn't have bombed their homeland or set the middle east on fire..they may have stayed at home? OR.....stopped ISIS from taking over and destroying the Middle East and killing how many in the homeland and abroad.... This the same isis we helped to create? The ideals have run for centuries, isis is just the latest incarnation... middle east has never seen prolonged peace and its bound to be the fucking English that are to blame lol
ISIS came to prominence after the invasion in Iraq.
We helped to create a monster and complain when its victims seek shelter."And evolved from which group? Exactly Lol | |||
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"How many in this country that will not be getting any jabs? To do so lends them liable to be caught. The hidden disease spreaders. Why did you post this Terry? Because I have been amongst these people. and I am not a racist, doesn't matter to me colour race or creed. They are Illegal Immigrants who have entered this country and should not be here as many do not contribute to this country. Many only take from us, the legal people in this country. Are they worried about you catching Covid you should ask yourself. That is why I asked the question! Maybe if hadn't have bombed their homeland or set the middle east on fire..they may have stayed at home? OR.....stopped ISIS from taking over and destroying the Middle East and killing how many in the homeland and abroad.... This the same isis we helped to create? The ideals have run for centuries, isis is just the latest incarnation... middle east has never seen prolonged peace and its bound to be the fucking English that are to blame lol
ISIS came to prominence after the invasion in Iraq.
We helped to create a monster and complain when its victims seek shelter.
And evolved from which group? Exactly Lol "Probally the same group who america armed in the 80s | |||
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"How many in this country that will not be getting any jabs? To do so lends them liable to be caught. The hidden disease spreaders. Why did you post this Terry? Because I have been amongst these people. and I am not a racist, doesn't matter to me colour race or creed. They are Illegal Immigrants who have entered this country and should not be here as many do not contribute to this country. Many only take from us, the legal people in this country. Are they worried about you catching Covid you should ask yourself. That is why I asked the question! Maybe if hadn't have bombed their homeland or set the middle east on fire..they may have stayed at home? OR.....stopped ISIS from taking over and destroying the Middle East and killing how many in the homeland and abroad.... This the same isis we helped to create? The ideals have run for centuries, isis is just the latest incarnation... middle east has never seen prolonged peace and its bound to be the fucking English that are to blame lol
ISIS came to prominence after the invasion in Iraq.
We helped to create a monster and complain when its victims seek shelter.
And evolved from which group? Exactly Lol
Probally the same group who america armed in the 80s"Want to name them or just making random statements? | |||
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"How many in this country that will not be getting any jabs? To do so lends them liable to be caught. The hidden disease spreaders. Why did you post this Terry? Because I have been amongst these people. and I am not a racist, doesn't matter to me colour race or creed. They are Illegal Immigrants who have entered this country and should not be here as many do not contribute to this country. Many only take from us, the legal people in this country. Are they worried about you catching Covid you should ask yourself. That is why I asked the question! Maybe if hadn't have bombed their homeland or set the middle east on fire..they may have stayed at home? OR.....stopped ISIS from taking over and destroying the Middle East and killing how many in the homeland and abroad.... This the same isis we helped to create? The ideals have run for centuries, isis is just the latest incarnation... middle east has never seen prolonged peace and its bound to be the fucking English that are to blame lol
ISIS came to prominence after the invasion in Iraq.
We helped to create a monster and complain when its victims seek shelter.
And evolved from which group? Exactly Lol
Probally the same group who america armed in the 80s
Want to name them or just making random statements? "The Taliban/Mujihadeen in Afghanistan | |||
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"How many in this country that will not be getting any jabs? To do so lends them liable to be caught. The hidden disease spreaders. Why did you post this Terry? Because I have been amongst these people. and I am not a racist, doesn't matter to me colour race or creed. They are Illegal Immigrants who have entered this country and should not be here as many do not contribute to this country. Many only take from us, the legal people in this country. Are they worried about you catching Covid you should ask yourself. That is why I asked the question! Maybe if hadn't have bombed their homeland or set the middle east on fire..they may have stayed at home? OR.....stopped ISIS from taking over and destroying the Middle East and killing how many in the homeland and abroad.... This the same isis we helped to create? The ideals have run for centuries, isis is just the latest incarnation... middle east has never seen prolonged peace and its bound to be the fucking English that are to blame lol
ISIS came to prominence after the invasion in Iraq.
We helped to create a monster and complain when its victims seek shelter.
And evolved from which group? Exactly Lol
Probally the same group who america armed in the 80s
Want to name them or just making random statements? "Maybe do some reading? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"How many in this country that will not be getting any jabs? To do so lends them liable to be caught. The hidden disease spreaders. Why did you post this Terry? Because I have been amongst these people. and I am not a racist, doesn't matter to me colour race or creed. They are Illegal Immigrants who have entered this country and should not be here as many do not contribute to this country. Many only take from us, the legal people in this country. Are they worried about you catching Covid you should ask yourself. That is why I asked the question! Maybe if hadn't have bombed their homeland or set the middle east on fire..they may have stayed at home? OR.....stopped ISIS from taking over and destroying the Middle East and killing how many in the homeland and abroad.... This the same isis we helped to create? The ideals have run for centuries, isis is just the latest incarnation... middle east has never seen prolonged peace and its bound to be the fucking English that are to blame lol
ISIS came to prominence after the invasion in Iraq.
We helped to create a monster and complain when its victims seek shelter.
And evolved from which group? Exactly Lol
Probally the same group who america armed in the 80s
Want to name them or just making random statements?
The Taliban/Mujihadeen in Afghanistan "Isis came from al qaeda who came from jihad, originally al jihad. ... who originally used to terrorise Egypt.... im not going any further.... Google it or watch life of brian its pretty much the same lol | |||
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"How many in this country that will not be getting any jabs? To do so lends them liable to be caught. The hidden disease spreaders. Why did you post this Terry? Because I have been amongst these people. and I am not a racist, doesn't matter to me colour race or creed. They are Illegal Immigrants who have entered this country and should not be here as many do not contribute to this country. Many only take from us, the legal people in this country. Are they worried about you catching Covid you should ask yourself. That is why I asked the question! Maybe if hadn't have bombed their homeland or set the middle east on fire..they may have stayed at home? OR.....stopped ISIS from taking over and destroying the Middle East and killing how many in the homeland and abroad.... This the same isis we helped to create? The ideals have run for centuries, isis is just the latest incarnation... middle east has never seen prolonged peace and its bound to be the fucking English that are to blame lol
ISIS came to prominence after the invasion in Iraq.
We helped to create a monster and complain when its victims seek shelter.
And evolved from which group? Exactly Lol
Probally the same group who america armed in the 80s
Want to name them or just making random statements?
Maybe do some reading?"That's the problem you don't lol | |||
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"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known "I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol | |||
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"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol "We (the West) funded, trained and equipped the Afghan Mujihadeen against the Soviets in the 1980s. Alqaeda sprung from there. The Taliban sprung from there. Etc. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, until they turn on you. | |||
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"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. That’ll be that thread sorted...... But I bet it’s not
Nothing to see here lol
Apart from the racist c..."Yep anyone who mentions illegal immigrants must be racist | |||
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"How many in this country that will not be getting any jabs? To do so lends them liable to be caught. The hidden disease spreaders. Why did you post this Terry? Because I have been amongst these people. and I am not a racist, doesn't matter to me colour race or creed. They are Illegal Immigrants who have entered this country and should not be here as many do not contribute to this country. Many only take from us, the legal people in this country. Are they worried about you catching Covid you should ask yourself. That is why I asked the question! Maybe if hadn't have bombed their homeland or set the middle east on fire..they may have stayed at home? OR.....stopped ISIS from taking over and destroying the Middle East and killing how many in the homeland and abroad.... This the same isis we helped to create? The ideals have run for centuries, isis is just the latest incarnation... middle east has never seen prolonged peace and its bound to be the fucking English that are to blame lol
ISIS came to prominence after the invasion in Iraq.
We helped to create a monster and complain when its victims seek shelter.
And evolved from which group? Exactly Lol
Probally the same group who america armed in the 80s
Want to name them or just making random statements?
Maybe do some reading?
That's the problem you don't lol "Right. | |||
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"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol
We (the West) funded, trained and equipped the Afghan Mujihadeen against the Soviets in the 1980s. Alqaeda sprung from there. The Taliban sprung from there. Etc. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, until they turn on you."Zbigniew Brzezinski by his own admission pulled Russia into Afghanistan to give them their Vietnam. Good old Brzezinski, Jimmy Carter National Security Adviser. | |||
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"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. That’ll be that thread sorted...... But I bet it’s not
Nothing to see here lol
Apart from the racist c...
Yep anyone who mentions illegal immigrants must be racist"As has been mentioned..I think it was something to do with him calling them disease spreaders which caused some concern. | |||
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"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol "So let me see what history tells us. Two crusades against brown people, near total genocide or an entire race (mesoamericans), inquisitions and religious persecution, force conversions, 300 years of industrial chattel slavery of an entire race, colonisation and destruction on every continent not their own, two world wars, concentration camp (invented by the British) butcher of 5 million Vietnamese to save them from communism. A continent that have only learn to live in peace since 1945. Much fucked up ideals, don't you think? Or is your reading of history limited to the past ten years? | |||
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"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol
So let me see what history tells us. Two crusades against brown people, near total genocide or an entire race (mesoamericans), inquisitions and religious persecution, force conversions, 300 years of industrial chattel slavery of an entire race, colonisation and destruction on every continent not their own, two world wars, concentration camp (invented by the British) butcher of 5 million Vietnamese to save them from communism. A continent that have only learn to live in peace since 1945.
Much fucked up ideals, don't you think? Or is your reading of history limited to the past ten years?"Lol don't bring facts into this, you'll upset people | |||
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"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol
So let me see what history tells us. Two crusades against brown people, near total genocide or an entire race (mesoamericans), inquisitions and religious persecution, force conversions, 300 years of industrial chattel slavery of an entire race, colonisation and destruction on every continent not their own, two world wars, concentration camp (invented by the British) butcher of 5 million Vietnamese to save them from communism. A continent that have only learn to live in peace since 1945.
Much fucked up ideals, don't you think? Or is your reading of history limited to the past ten years?
Lol don't bring facts into this, you'll upset people "I can't help myself | |||
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"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol
So let me see what history tells us. Two crusades against brown people, near total genocide or an entire race (mesoamericans), inquisitions and religious persecution, force conversions, 300 years of industrial chattel slavery of an entire race, colonisation and destruction on every continent not their own, two world wars, concentration camp (invented by the British) butcher of 5 million Vietnamese to save them from communism. A continent that have only learn to live in peace since 1945.
Much fucked up ideals, don't you think? Or is your reading of history limited to the past ten years?
Lol don't bring facts into this, you'll upset people
I can't help myself"Me neither  | |||
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"oh leave them alone. there's people like me struggling to get access, all because i refuse to be beaten around the head" What?? | |||
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"Bloody immigrants, coming over here and taking our vaccinations without facing deportation. Terry and Sheila, white British Boomers, are up in arms about such liberties, even though though they're refusing the vaccine because of something someone said about Bill Gates on YouTube." | |||
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"How many in this country that will not be getting any jabs? To do so lends them liable to be caught. The hidden disease spreaders. Why did you post this Terry? Because I have been amongst these people. and I am not a racist, doesn't matter to me colour race or creed. They are Illegal Immigrants who have entered this country and should not be here as many do not contribute to this country. Many only take from us, the legal people in this country. Are they worried about you catching Covid you should ask yourself. That is why I asked the question! " Wow. Just WOW | |||
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"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol
So let me see what history tells us. Two crusades against brown people, near total genocide or an entire race (mesoamericans), inquisitions and religious persecution, force conversions, 300 years of industrial chattel of an entire race, colonisation and destruction on every continent not their own, two world wars, concentration camp (invented by the British) butcher of 5 million Vietnamese to save them from communism. A continent that have only learn to live in peace since 1945.
Much fucked up ideals, don't you think? Or is your reading of history limited to the past ten years?"We like to believe we're the civilised ones, why would anyone possibly want to hurt us? | |||
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"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol
So let me see what history tells us. Two crusades against brown people, near total genocide or an entire race (mesoamericans), inquisitions and religious persecution, force conversions, 300 years of industrial chattel of an entire race, colonisation and destruction on every continent not their own, two world wars, concentration camp (invented by the British) butcher of 5 million Vietnamese to save them from communism. A continent that have only learn to live in peace since 1945.
Much fucked up ideals, don't you think? Or is your reading of history limited to the past ten years? We like to believe we're the civilised ones, why would anyone possibly want to hurt us? "And maybe if we understood, we could be more proactive in fixing the mess. Hey ho. | |||
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"How many in this country that will not be getting any jabs? To do so lends them liable to be caught. The hidden disease spreaders. " I mean you can be vaccinated and still carry/spread the ronies so this post is a bit null and void  | |||
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"How many in this country that will not be getting any jabs? To do so lends them liable to be caught. The hidden disease spreaders. Why did you post this Terry? Because I have been amongst these people. and I am not a racist, doesn't matter to me colour race or creed. They are Illegal Immigrants who have entered this country and should not be here as many do not contribute to this country. Many only take from us, the legal people in this country. Are they worried about you catching Covid you should ask yourself. That is why I asked the question! " It’s crazy that we define a country by the person that put the flag there first and claimed it as a country then set all these rules which don’t coincide with people’s freedom on earth. Even crazier people are so negative towards people risking their lives fleeing a country where they are put through hell each day. I always like to think if it was me or a family member that was trying to free themselves from a life where they feared death everyday that people would react the way you seem to | |||
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"How many in this country that will not be getting any jabs? To do so lends them liable to be caught. The hidden disease spreaders. Why did you post this Terry? Because I have been amongst these people. and I am not a racist, doesn't matter to me colour race or creed. They are Illegal Immigrants who have entered this country and should not be here as many do not contribute to this country. Many only take from us, the legal people in this country. Are they worried about you catching Covid you should ask yourself. That is why I asked the question! It’s crazy that we define a country by the person that put the flag there first and claimed it as a country then set all these rules which don’t coincide with people’s freedom on earth. Even crazier people are so negative towards people risking their lives fleeing a country where they are put through hell each day. I always like to think if it was me or a family member that was trying to free themselves from a life where they feared death everyday that people would react the way you seem to " From France? | |||
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" From France? " Am I? No sir | |||
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"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol
So let me see what history tells us. Two crusades against brown people, near total genocide or an entire race (mesoamericans), inquisitions and religious persecution, force conversions, 300 years of industrial chattel slavery of an entire race, colonisation and destruction on every continent not their own, two world wars, concentration camp (invented by the British) butcher of 5 million Vietnamese to save them from communism. A continent that have only learn to live in peace since 1945.
Much fucked up ideals, don't you think? Or is your reading of history limited to the past ten years?"And then the cheeky bastards come over here! | |||
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"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol
So let me see what history tells us. Two crusades against brown people, near total genocide or an entire race (mesoamericans), inquisitions and religious persecution, force conversions, 300 years of industrial chattel slavery of an entire race, colonisation and destruction on every continent not their own, two world wars, concentration camp (invented by the British) butcher of 5 million Vietnamese to save them from communism. A continent that have only learn to live in peace since 1945.
Much fucked up ideals, don't you think? Or is your reading of history limited to the past ten years?"OK, that's a few chunks of history over a 500 year span. Let's observe that you started with the Spanish committing genocide there. And let's not mention Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot as that doesn't quite fit the narrative. Yet it's so often us British self flagellating. I posted in the politics thread before, America made things worse, but the Middle East was fucked as soon as France started selling nuclear tech to Iran in the 1970s. | |||
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"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol
So let me see what history tells us. Two crusades against brown people, near total genocide or an entire race (mesoamericans), inquisitions and religious persecution, force conversions, 300 years of industrial chattel slavery of an entire race, colonisation and destruction on every continent not their own, two world wars, concentration camp (invented by the British) butcher of 5 million Vietnamese to save them from communism. A continent that have only learn to live in peace since 1945.
Much fucked up ideals, don't you think? Or is your reading of history limited to the past ten years?
OK, that's a few chunks of history over a 500 year span. Let's observe that you started with the Spanish committing genocide there. And let's not mention Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot as that doesn't quite fit the narrative.
Yet it's so often us British self flagellating.
I posted in the politics thread before, America made things worse, but the Middle East was fucked as soon as France started selling
nuclear tech to Iran in the 1970s."I think the point is,America and the UK's recent adventures in the middle east ,have directly led to a rise in extremism and terror. The middle east was already simmering,we set it on fire and then complain when people try to come here too escape. | |||
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"And all the potted history is very interesting but isn't it getting a bit off topic? Which I believe was the unquantified number and unknown health risk of illegal aliens. The causation of any number of terrorist movements or political parties in especially the Middle East, as interesting as it is, wasn't really the question. " True But the initial post was also about the number of immigrants here. But it is going off piste a bit. | |||
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"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol
So let me see what history tells us. Two crusades against brown people, near total genocide or an entire race (mesoamericans), inquisitions and religious persecution, force conversions, 300 years of industrial chattel slavery of an entire race, colonisation and destruction on every continent not their own, two world wars, concentration camp (invented by the British) butcher of 5 million Vietnamese to save them from communism. A continent that have only learn to live in peace since 1945.
Much fucked up ideals, don't you think? Or is your reading of history limited to the past ten years?
OK, that's a few chunks of history over a 500 year span. Let's observe that you started with the Spanish committing genocide there. And let's not mention Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot as that doesn't quite fit the narrative.
Yet it's so often us British self flagellating.
I posted in the politics thread before, America made things worse, but the Middle East was fucked as soon as France started selling
nuclear tech to Iran in the 1970s."Since you missed my point, let me be clear. No people/region/faith have a monopoly on fucked up ideals. But if you want to make the case that other people are more fucked up than yours, then you should know your history for at least the last 3000 years - see, I started with the crusades. Sure, Moa and Stalin and Pol Pot were devils but at least they kept it in the family for the most part. My point is that if you want to "Otherise" people and make then seems violent and warlike, then you should check you story first. No people have exported violence and plunder like European going back to the Romans. Until WW2 left the continent in ruins, Europe was always fighting one war or the other amongst themselves while the rest of the world looked on. So if you want to call other regions fucked up, then look at the complete picture. Almost every single conflict in the world today - including those in Middle East - is a hangover of European colonisation and their straight line borders. So really people should get over their exceptionalism. | |||
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"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol
So let me see what history tells us. Two crusades against brown people, near total genocide or an entire race (mesoamericans), inquisitions and religious persecution, force conversions, 300 years of industrial chattel slavery of an entire race, colonisation and destruction on every continent not their own, two world wars, concentration camp (invented by the British) butcher of 5 million Vietnamese to save them from communism. A continent that have only learn to live in peace since 1945.
Much fucked up ideals, don't you think? Or is your reading of history limited to the past ten years?
OK, that's a few chunks of history over a 500 year span. Let's observe that you started with the Spanish committing genocide there. And let's not mention Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot as that doesn't quite fit the narrative.
Yet it's so often us British self flagellating.
I posted in the politics thread before, America made things worse, but the Middle East was fucked as soon as France started selling
nuclear tech to Iran in the 1970s.
Since you missed my point, let me be clear. No people/region/faith have a monopoly on fucked up ideals. But if you want to make the case that other people are more fucked up than yours, then you should know your history for at least the last 3000 years - see, I started with the crusades. Sure, Moa and Stalin and Pol Pot were devils but at least they kept it in the family for the most part.
My point is that if you want to "Otherise" people and make then seems violent and warlike, then you should check you story first. No people have exported violence and plunder like European going back to the Romans. Until WW2 left the continent in ruins, Europe was always fighting one war or the other amongst themselves while the rest of the world looked on. So if you want to call other regions fucked up, then look at the complete picture. Almost every single conflict in the world today - including those in Middle East - is a hangover of European colonisation and their straight line borders.
So really people should get over their exceptionalism."Bravo, sir | |||
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"its gone off topic and become a history lesson because people want to blame the usa or whoever for all the problems in the world. Many countries have never sorted their own shit and are in a constant state of flux. Singapore is an example of how quickly a country can turn around, would you be happy to use medical facilities in singapore yes, how many singapore illegals in uk? none, hence we dont have to debate if they should or shouldnt get vaccines allocated. The western world isnt responsible for everyone on the planet. "Spectacularly missing the point. How do you know there are no Singapore illegals here? | |||
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"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol
So let me see what history tells us. Two crusades against brown people, near total genocide or an entire race (mesoamericans), inquisitions and religious persecution, force conversions, 300 years of industrial chattel slavery of an entire race, colonisation and destruction on every continent not their own, two world wars, concentration camp (invented by the British) butcher of 5 million Vietnamese to save them from communism. A continent that have only learn to live in peace since 1945.
Much fucked up ideals, don't you think? Or is your reading of history limited to the past ten years?
OK, that's a few chunks of history over a 500 year span. Let's observe that you started with the Spanish committing genocide there. And let's not mention Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot as that doesn't quite fit the narrative.
Yet it's so often us British self flagellating.
I posted in the politics thread before, America made things worse, but the Middle East was fucked as soon as France started selling
nuclear tech to Iran in the 1970s.
I think the point is,America and the UK's recent adventures in the middle east ,have directly led to a rise in extremism and terror.
The middle east was already simmering,we set it on fire and then complain when people try to come here too escape."Good point. Most people don't know what they are talking about! Al Qaeda is Arabic for "The Database" (a close translation). When Bin Laden was fight the Soviets, he was the "good guy" and kept a database of fighters for that cause. When that war ended, he wanted Americans out of Muslim land so he used his database against them. But we are told that people are just evil and hate the west. How many people know that the root of the tension with Iran is because The West overthrew their democratically elected govt and installed the friendly Shah? The moral of the story is leave people alone. They are here because you went there and fucked up | |||
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"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol
So let me see what history tells us. Two crusades against brown people, near total genocide or an entire race (mesoamericans), inquisitions and religious persecution, force conversions, 300 years of industrial chattel slavery of an entire race, colonisation and destruction on every continent not their own, two world wars, concentration camp (invented by the British) butcher of 5 million Vietnamese to save them from communism. A continent that have only learn to live in peace since 1945.
Much fucked up ideals, don't you think? Or is your reading of history limited to the past ten years?
OK, that's a few chunks of history over a 500 year span. Let's observe that you started with the Spanish committing genocide there. And let's not mention Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot as that doesn't quite fit the narrative.
Yet it's so often us British self flagellating.
I posted in the politics thread before, America made things worse, but the Middle East was fucked as soon as France started selling
nuclear tech to Iran in the 1970s.
Since you missed my point, let me be clear. No people/region/faith have a monopoly on fucked up ideals. But if you want to make the case that other people are more fucked up than yours, then you should know your history for at least the last 3000 years - see, I started with the crusades. Sure, Moa and Stalin and Pol Pot were devils but at least they kept it in the family for the most part.
My point is that if you want to "Otherise" people and make then seems violent and warlike, then you should check you story first. No people have exported violence and plunder like European going back to the Romans. Until WW2 left the continent in ruins, Europe was always fighting one war or the other amongst themselves while the rest of the world looked on. So if you want to call other regions fucked up, then look at the complete picture. Almost every single conflict in the world today - including those in Middle East - is a hangover of European colonisation and their straight line borders.
So really people should get over their exceptionalism."So there was no war in China, Japan, Mongolia, Africa. Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, the levant etc.. through the ages. That's good to hear. | |||
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"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol
So let me see what history tells us. Two crusades against brown people, near total genocide or an entire race (mesoamericans), inquisitions and religious persecution, force conversions, 300 years of industrial chattel slavery of an entire race, colonisation and destruction on every continent not their own, two world wars, concentration camp (invented by the British) butcher of 5 million Vietnamese to save them from communism. A continent that have only learn to live in peace since 1945.
Much fucked up ideals, don't you think? Or is your reading of history limited to the past ten years?
OK, that's a few chunks of history over a 500 year span. Let's observe that you started with the Spanish committing genocide there. And let's not mention Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot as that doesn't quite fit the narrative.
Yet it's so often us British self flagellating.
I posted in the politics thread before, America made things worse, but the Middle East was fucked as soon as France started selling
nuclear tech to Iran in the 1970s.
Since you missed my point, let me be clear. No people/region/faith have a monopoly on fucked up ideals. But if you want to make the case that other people are more fucked up than yours, then you should know your history for at least the last 3000 years - see, I started with the crusades. Sure, Moa and Stalin and Pol Pot were devils but at least they kept it in the family for the most part.
My point is that if you want to "Otherise" people and make then seems violent and warlike, then you should check you story first. No people have exported violence and plunder like European going back to the Romans. Until WW2 left the continent in ruins, Europe was always fighting one war or the other amongst themselves while the rest of the world looked on. So if you want to call other regions fucked up, then look at the complete picture. Almost every single conflict in the world today - including those in Middle East - is a hangover of European colonisation and their straight line borders.
So really people should get over their exceptionalism."And I have a big problem with you lumping the most diverse set of cultures on the planet into one homogenous "European" cult as if anyone and everyone on fab had anything to do with Columbus for example. I respectfully point you at the history of the West Africa Squadron if you want to rubbish exceptionalism. | |||
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"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol
So let me see what history tells us. Two crusades against brown people, near total genocide or an entire race (mesoamericans), inquisitions and religious persecution, force conversions, 300 years of industrial chattel slavery of an entire race, colonisation and destruction on every continent not their own, two world wars, concentration camp (invented by the British) butcher of 5 million Vietnamese to save them from communism. A continent that have only learn to live in peace since 1945.
Much fucked up ideals, don't you think? Or is your reading of history limited to the past ten years?
OK, that's a few chunks of history over a 500 year span. Let's observe that you started with the Spanish committing genocide there. And let's not mention Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot as that doesn't quite fit the narrative.
Yet it's so often us British self flagellating.
I posted in the politics thread before, America made things worse, but the Middle East was fucked as soon as France started selling
nuclear tech to Iran in the 1970s.
I think the point is,America and the UK's recent adventures in the middle east ,have directly led to a rise in extremism and terror.
The middle east was already simmering,we set it on fire and then complain when people try to come here too escape.
Good point. Most people don't know what they are talking about! Al Qaeda is Arabic for "The Database" (a close translation). When Bin Laden was fight the Soviets, he was the "good guy" and kept a database of fighters for that cause. When that war ended, he wanted Americans out of Muslim land so he used his database against them. But we are told that people are just evil and hate the west. How many people know that the root of the tension with Iran is because The West overthrew their democratically elected govt and installed the friendly Shah?
The moral of the story is leave people alone. They are here because you went there and fucked up"I think people are happy to just pick and choose what bits of history they believe. I'm not sure how you can have even a basic grasp of the west involments and then say we bear no responsibility whatsoever. But anyway..free jabs seems a sensible move. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"its gone off topic and become a history lesson because people want to blame the usa or whoever for all the problems in the world. Many countries have never sorted their own shit and are in a constant state of flux. Singapore is an example of how quickly a country can turn around, would you be happy to use medical facilities in singapore yes, how many singapore illegals in uk? none, hence we dont have to debate if they should or shouldnt get vaccines allocated. The western world isnt responsible for everyone on the planet.
------
Spectacularly missing the point.
How do you know there are no Singapore illegals here?"There are various charities that help imigrants of any category, they keep a record of different demographics. In addition, figures are extrapolated from the people who are "found" by the authorities. Singapore is not listed as a common source of immigration to the UK, Singapore is actually a common destination for immigration. Cal | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol
So let me see what history tells us. Two crusades against brown people, near total genocide or an entire race (mesoamericans), inquisitions and religious persecution, force conversions, 300 years of industrial chattel slavery of an entire race, colonisation and destruction on every continent not their own, two world wars, concentration camp (invented by the British) butcher of 5 million Vietnamese to save them from communism. A continent that have only learn to live in peace since 1945.
Much fucked up ideals, don't you think? Or is your reading of history limited to the past ten years?
OK, that's a few chunks of history over a 500 year span. Let's observe that you started with the Spanish committing genocide there. And let's not mention Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot as that doesn't quite fit the narrative.
Yet it's so often us British self flagellating.
I posted in the politics thread before, America made things worse, but the Middle East was fucked as soon as France started selling
nuclear tech to Iran in the 1970s.
I think the point is,America and the UK's recent adventures in the middle east ,have directly led to a rise in extremism and terror.
The middle east was already simmering,we set it on fire and then complain when people try to come here too escape.
Good point. Most people don't know what they are talking about! Al Qaeda is Arabic for "The Database" (a close translation). When Bin Laden was fight the Soviets, he was the "good guy" and kept a database of fighters for that cause. When that war ended, he wanted Americans out of Muslim land so he used his database against them. But we are told that people are just evil and hate the west. How many people know that the root of the tension with Iran is because The West overthrew their democratically elected govt and installed the friendly Shah?
The moral of the story is leave people alone. They are here because you went there and fucked up"That's an interesting view. What are your thoughts on external intervention on for example the Rwandan genocide or the Serbian / Bosnian massacres and whether the UN should have intervened to attempt to stop the slaughter of millions due to their race / religion? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"its gone off topic and become a history lesson because people want to blame the usa or whoever for all the problems in the world. Many countries have never sorted their own shit and are in a constant state of flux. Singapore is an example of how quickly a country can turn around, would you be happy to use medical facilities in singapore yes, how many singapore illegals in uk? none, hence we dont have to debate if they should or shouldnt get vaccines allocated. The western world isnt responsible for everyone on the planet.
------
Spectacularly missing the point.
How do you know there are no Singapore illegals here?
There are various charities that help imigrants of any category, they keep a record of different demographics. In addition, figures are extrapolated from the people who are "found" by the authorities.
Singapore is not listed as a common source of immigration to the UK, Singapore is actually a common destination for immigration.
Cal"Doesnt mean there are non here whatsoever surely? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol
So let me see what history tells us. Two crusades against brown people, near total genocide or an entire race (mesoamericans), inquisitions and religious persecution, force conversions, 300 years of industrial chattel slavery of an entire race, colonisation and destruction on every continent not their own, two world wars, concentration camp (invented by the British) butcher of 5 million Vietnamese to save them from communism. A continent that have only learn to live in peace since 1945.
Much fucked up ideals, don't you think? Or is your reading of history limited to the past ten years?
OK, that's a few chunks of history over a 500 year span. Let's observe that you started with the Spanish committing genocide there. And let's not mention Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot as that doesn't quite fit the narrative.
Yet it's so often us British self flagellating.
I posted in the politics thread before, America made things worse, but the Middle East was fucked as soon as France started selling
nuclear tech to Iran in the 1970s.
I think the point is,America and the UK's recent adventures in the middle east ,have directly led to a rise in extremism and terror.
The middle east was already simmering,we set it on fire and then complain when people try to come here too escape.
Good point. Most people don't know what they are talking about! Al Qaeda is Arabic for "The Database" (a close translation). When Bin Laden was fight the Soviets, he was the "good guy" and kept a database of fighters for that cause. When that war ended, he wanted Americans out of Muslim land so he used his database against them. But we are told that people are just evil and hate the west. How many people know that the root of the tension with Iran is because The West overthrew their democratically elected govt and installed the friendly Shah?
The moral of the story is leave people alone. They are here because you went there and fucked up
I think people are happy to just pick and choose what bits of history they believe.
I'm not sure how you can have even a basic grasp of the west involments and then say we bear no responsibility whatsoever.
But anyway..free jabs seems a sensible move.
"Literally nobody has said the West bears no responsibility. Simple history of the world - Everyone has been invaded and everyone has tried to kill everyone else. (Apart from Thailand. Never been invaded and hence a land of smiles). | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol
So let me see what history tells us. Two crusades against brown people, near total genocide or an entire race (mesoamericans), inquisitions and religious persecution, force conversions, 300 years of industrial chattel slavery of an entire race, colonisation and destruction on every continent not their own, two world wars, concentration camp (invented by the British) butcher of 5 million Vietnamese to save them from communism. A continent that have only learn to live in peace since 1945.
Much fucked up ideals, don't you think? Or is your reading of history limited to the past ten years?
OK, that's a few chunks of history over a 500 year span. Let's observe that you started with the Spanish committing genocide there. And let's not mention Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot as that doesn't quite fit the narrative.
Yet it's so often us British self flagellating.
I posted in the politics thread before, America made things worse, but the Middle East was fucked as soon as France started selling
nuclear tech to Iran in the 1970s.
Since you missed my point, let me be clear. No people/region/faith have a monopoly on fucked up ideals. But if you want to make the case that other people are more fucked up than yours, then you should know your history for at least the last 3000 years - see, I started with the crusades. Sure, Moa and Stalin and Pol Pot were devils but at least they kept it in the family for the most part.
My point is that if you want to "Otherise" people and make then seems violent and warlike, then you should check you story first. No people have exported violence and plunder like European going back to the Romans. Until WW2 left the continent in ruins, Europe was always fighting one war or the other amongst themselves while the rest of the world looked on. So if you want to call other regions fucked up, then look at the complete picture. Almost every single conflict in the world today - including those in Middle East - is a hangover of European colonisation and their straight line borders.
So really people should get over their exceptionalism.
So there was no war in China, Japan, Mongolia, Africa. Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, the levant etc.. through the ages. That's good to hear. "OK. Let me make it simple. The response was to a post implying that the people of the Middle East are by nature more fucked up that everyone else. My post was just to balance the ledger to show that brown people do not have a monopoly on fucked up violent ideas. Do you understand now? No set of people or region in more fucked up than the other when it comes to be brutal. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Simple history of the world - Everyone has been invaded and everyone has tried to kill everyone else. (Apart from Thailand. Never been invaded and hence a land of smiles). " Actually Japan invaded Thailand | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Simple history of the world - Everyone has been invaded and everyone has tried to kill everyone else. (Apart from Thailand. Never been invaded and hence a land of smiles). Actually Japan invaded Thailand " Actually no. It was technically allied with Japan at the time and hence wasn't invaded. When it comes to history I'm kind of a big deal on these boards. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Spectacularly missing the point. How do you know there are no Singapore illegals here? -------------------------- There are various charities that help imigrants of any category, they keep a record of different demographics. In addition, figures are extrapolated from the people who are "found" by the authorities. Singapore is not listed as a common source of immigration to the UK, Singapore is actually a common destination for immigration. Cal ----------------------- Doesnt mean there are non here whatsoever surely?" Don't call me Shirley...
The issue with undocumented immigration, is the lack of records. Obviously it is difficult to prove or disprove the existence of people who don't want to be found, but the likelihood is low due to there being limited reasons for people to flee Singapore. On the other hand though there are British people living as "illegal imigrants" in many countries around the world, so it is possible that there are people from other stable countries who are here illegal too.
Cal | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol
So let me see what history tells us. Two crusades against brown people, near total genocide or an entire race (mesoamericans), inquisitions and religious persecution, force conversions, 300 years of industrial chattel very of an entire race, colonisation and destruction on every continent not their own, two world wars, concentration camp (invented by the British) butcher of 5 million Vietnamese to save them from communism. A continent that have only learn to live in peace since 1945.
Much fucked up ideals, don't you think? Or is your reading of history limited to the past ten years?
OK, that's a few chunks of history over a 500 year span. Let's observe that you started with the Spanish committing genocide there. And let's not mention Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot as that doesn't quite fit the narrative.
Yet it's so often us British self flagellating.
I posted in the politics thread before, America made things worse, but the Middle East was fucked as soon as France started selling
nuclear tech to Iran in the 1970s.
Since you missed my point, let me be clear. No people/region/faith have a monopoly on fucked up ideals. But if you want to make the case that other people are more fucked up than yours, then you should know your history for at least the last 3000 years - see, I started with the crusades. Sure, Moa and Stalin and Pol Pot were devils but at least they kept it in the family for the most part.
My point is that if you want to "Otherise" people and make then seems violent and warlike, then you should check you story first. No people have exported violence and plunder like European going back to the Romans. Until WW2 left the continent in ruins, Europe was always fighting one war or the other amongst themselves while the rest of the world looked on. So if you want to call other regions fucked up, then look at the complete picture. Almost every single conflict in the world today - including those in Middle East - is a hangover of European colonisation and their straight line borders.
So really people should get over their exceptionalism.
So there was no war in China, Japan, Mongolia, Africa. Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, the levant etc.. through the ages. That's good to hear.
OK. Let me make it simple. The response was to a post implying that the people of the Middle East are by nature more fucked up that everyone else. My post was just to balance the ledger to show that brown people do not have a monopoly on fucked up violent ideas.
Do you understand now? No set of people or region in more fucked up than the other when it comes to be brutal.
"Well when you put it using those words. Yes of course it makes sense. There are however areas of the planet which over the years have been more susceptible to internal and external wars... The balkans... And yes the middle east to name but two. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
Small picture: people are here who can spread germs. Let's vaccinate them
Medium picture: geopolitical instability might cause immigration irregularities
Bigger picture: there's huge context to geopolitical instability and we should look to our part in that rather than shrugging it off, so we can be better global citizens and maybe try to fix shit.
Shrug. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Well this went as well as I expected
Small picture: people are here who can spread germs. Let's vaccinate them
Medium picture: geopolitical instability might cause immigration irregularities
Bigger picture: there's huge context to geopolitical instability and we should look to our part in that rather than shrugging it off, so we can be better global citizens and maybe try to fix shit.
Shrug."
A sensible approach. The bigger picture may even reduce some of the self negative aspects of people who then develop into those seeing such diversity as division. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol
So let me see what history tells us. Two crusades against brown people, near total genocide or an entire race (mesoamericans), inquisitions and religious persecution, force conversions, 300 years of industrial chattel very of an entire race, colonisation and destruction on every continent not their own, two world wars, concentration camp (invented by the British) butcher of 5 million Vietnamese to save them from communism. A continent that have only learn to live in peace since 1945.
Much fucked up ideals, don't you think? Or is your reading of history limited to the past ten years?
OK, that's a few chunks of history over a 500 year span. Let's observe that you started with the Spanish committing genocide there. And let's not mention Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot as that doesn't quite fit the narrative.
Yet it's so often us British self flagellating.
I posted in the politics thread before, America made things worse, but the Middle East was fucked as soon as France started selling
nuclear tech to Iran in the 1970s.
Since you missed my point, let me be clear. No people/region/faith have a monopoly on fucked up ideals. But if you want to make the case that other people are more fucked up than yours, then you should know your history for at least the last 3000 years - see, I started with the crusades. Sure, Moa and Stalin and Pol Pot were devils but at least they kept it in the family for the most part.
My point is that if you want to "Otherise" people and make then seems violent and warlike, then you should check you story first. No people have exported violence and plunder like European going back to the Romans. Until WW2 left the continent in ruins, Europe was always fighting one war or the other amongst themselves while the rest of the world looked on. So if you want to call other regions fucked up, then look at the complete picture. Almost every single conflict in the world today - including those in Middle East - is a hangover of European colonisation and their straight line borders.
So really people should get over their exceptionalism.
So there was no war in China, Japan, Mongolia, Africa. Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, the levant etc.. through the ages. That's good to hear.
OK. Let me make it simple. The response was to a post implying that the people of the Middle East are by nature more fucked up that everyone else. My post was just to balance the ledger to show that brown people do not have a monopoly on fucked up violent ideas.
Do you understand now? No set of people or region in more fucked up than the other when it comes to be brutal.
Well when you put it using those words. Yes of course it makes sense. There are however areas of the planet which over the years have been more susceptible to internal and external wars... The balkans... And yes the middle east to name but two. "Which makes sense for the west to constantly poke its nose in,in the case of the middle east. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Well this went as well as I expected
Small picture: people are here who can spread germs. Let's vaccinate them
Medium picture: geopolitical instability might cause immigration irregularities
Bigger picture: there's huge context to geopolitical instability and we should look to our part in that rather than shrugging it off, so we can be better global citizens and maybe try to fix shit.
Shrug.
A sensible approach. The bigger picture may even reduce some of the self negative aspects of people who then develop into those seeing such diversity as division. "God yes. Imagine trying to fix it and maybe having people want to work together, rather than alienating them. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Well this went as well as I expected
Small picture: people are here who can spread germs. Let's vaccinate them
Medium picture: geopolitical instability might cause immigration irregularities
Bigger picture: there's huge context to geopolitical instability and we should look to our part in that rather than shrugging it off, so we can be better global citizens and maybe try to fix shit.
Shrug.
A sensible approach. The bigger picture may even reduce some of the self negative aspects of people who then develop into those seeing such diversity as division. "nice summary, however there was a doctor on radio saying its not her job to decide who can and who cant use nhs, callers quickly pointed out her first loyalty should be to be people that actually keep her in a job via their taxes. but yes if we could vaccinate the world tomorrow that would be great but we cant | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol
So let me see what history tells us. Two crusades against brown people, near total genocide or an entire race (mesoamericans), inquisitions and religious persecution, force conversions, 300 years of industrial chattel very of an entire race, colonisation and destruction on every continent not their own, two world wars, concentration camp (invented by the British) butcher of 5 million Vietnamese to save them from communism. A continent that have only learn to live in peace since 1945.
Much fucked up ideals, don't you think? Or is your reading of history limited to the past ten years?
OK, that's a few chunks of history over a 500 year span. Let's observe that you started with the Spanish committing genocide there. And let's not mention Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot as that doesn't quite fit the narrative.
Yet it's so often us British self flagellating.
I posted in the politics thread before, America made things worse, but the Middle East was fucked as soon as France started selling
nuclear tech to Iran in the 1970s.
Since you missed my point, let me be clear. No people/region/faith have a monopoly on fucked up ideals. But if you want to make the case that other people are more fucked up than yours, then you should know your history for at least the last 3000 years - see, I started with the crusades. Sure, Moa and Stalin and Pol Pot were devils but at least they kept it in the family for the most part.
My point is that if you want to "Otherise" people and make then seems violent and warlike, then you should check you story first. No people have exported violence and plunder like European going back to the Romans. Until WW2 left the continent in ruins, Europe was always fighting one war or the other amongst themselves while the rest of the world looked on. So if you want to call other regions fucked up, then look at the complete picture. Almost every single conflict in the world today - including those in Middle East - is a hangover of European colonisation and their straight line borders.
So really people should get over their exceptionalism.
So there was no war in China, Japan, Mongolia, Africa. Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, the levant etc.. through the ages. That's good to hear.
OK. Let me make it simple. The response was to a post implying that the people of the Middle East are by nature more fucked up that everyone else. My post was just to balance the ledger to show that brown people do not have a monopoly on fucked up violent ideas.
Do you understand now? No set of people or region in more fucked up than the other when it comes to be brutal.
Well when you put it using those words. Yes of course it makes sense. There are however areas of the planet which over the years have been more susceptible to internal and external wars... The balkans... And yes the middle east to name but two.
Which makes sense for the west to constantly poke its nose in,in the case of the middle east."Well there's a challenge... Balancing when and how to intervene if at all. How civilised would we be if we sat back as an example and let assad commit genocide? Do we sit and watch as they slaughter innocents or do we "intervene" to attempt to help resolution... Or closer to home.... The northern Ireland situation. UN peacekeeping... Have they ever helped a situation? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Well this went as well as I expected
Small picture: people are here who can spread germs. Let's vaccinate them
Medium picture: geopolitical instability might cause immigration irregularities
Bigger picture: there's huge context to geopolitical instability and we should look to our part in that rather than shrugging it off, so we can be better global citizens and maybe try to fix shit.
Shrug.
A sensible approach. The bigger picture may even reduce some of the self negative aspects of people who then develop into those seeing such diversity as division.
God yes. Imagine trying to fix it and maybe having people want to work together, rather than alienating them."This  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol
So let me see what history tells us. Two crusades against brown people, near total genocide or an entire race (mesoamericans), inquisitions and religious persecution, force conversions, 300 years of industrial chattel very of an entire race, colonisation and destruction on every continent not their own, two world wars, concentration camp (invented by the British) butcher of 5 million Vietnamese to save them from communism. A continent that have only learn to live in peace since 1945.
Much fucked up ideals, don't you think? Or is your reading of history limited to the past ten years?
OK, that's a few chunks of history over a 500 year span. Let's observe that you started with the Spanish committing genocide there. And let's not mention Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot as that doesn't quite fit the narrative.
Yet it's so often us British self flagellating.
I posted in the politics thread before, America made things worse, but the Middle East was fucked as soon as France started selling
nuclear tech to Iran in the 1970s.
Since you missed my point, let me be clear. No people/region/faith have a monopoly on fucked up ideals. But if you want to make the case that other people are more fucked up than yours, then you should know your history for at least the last 3000 years - see, I started with the crusades. Sure, Moa and Stalin and Pol Pot were devils but at least they kept it in the family for the most part.
My point is that if you want to "Otherise" people and make then seems violent and warlike, then you should check you story first. No people have exported violence and plunder like European going back to the Romans. Until WW2 left the continent in ruins, Europe was always fighting one war or the other amongst themselves while the rest of the world looked on. So if you want to call other regions fucked up, then look at the complete picture. Almost every single conflict in the world today - including those in Middle East - is a hangover of European colonisation and their straight line borders.
So really people should get over their exceptionalism.
So there was no war in China, Japan, Mongolia, Africa. Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, the levant etc.. through the ages. That's good to hear.
OK. Let me make it simple. The response was to a post implying that the people of the Middle East are by nature more fucked up that everyone else. My post was just to balance the ledger to show that brown people do not have a monopoly on fucked up violent ideas.
Do you understand now? No set of people or region in more fucked up than the other when it comes to be brutal.
Well when you put it using those words. Yes of course it makes sense. There are however areas of the planet which over the years have been more susceptible to internal and external wars... The balkans... And yes the middle east to name but two.
Which makes sense for the west to constantly poke its nose in,in the case of the middle east."Well it was unanswered earlier in the thread - are we poking our nose in if we have boots on the ground in Rwanda? Balkans? Myanmar? Loads of liberals were begging us to do "something" about Syria. I'm just reacting to the notions that "we" (the evil West or something) caused all the trouble in the world and "we" should sort it out. Without causing more instability of course. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Well this went as well as I expected
Small picture: people are here who can spread germs. Let's vaccinate them
Medium picture: geopolitical instability might cause immigration irregularities
Bigger picture: there's huge context to geopolitical instability and we should look to our part in that rather than shrugging it off, so we can be better global citizens and maybe try to fix shit.
Shrug.
A sensible approach. The bigger picture may even reduce some of the self negative aspects of people who then develop into those seeing such diversity as division.
nice summary, however there was a doctor on radio saying its not her job to decide who can and who cant use nhs, callers quickly pointed out her first loyalty should be to be people that actually keep her in a job via their taxes.
but yes if we could vaccinate the world tomorrow that would be great but we cant "Her first loyalty is to public health in the UK, which is threatened by the unvaccinated. The virus doesn't care if a person pays taxes or not when it spreads 
By jabbing undocumented immigrants, we also protect ourselves. It's self interest | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. That’ll be that thread sorted...... But I bet it’s not
Nothing to see here lol
Apart from the racist c...
A concern over immigration- legal or not, is not racist. "Well, actually it *can* be. Plenty of examples of it through history. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol
So let me see what history tells us. Two crusades against brown people, near total genocide or an entire race (mesoamericans), inquisitions and religious persecution, force conversions, 300 years of industrial chattel very of an entire race, colonisation and destruction on every continent not their own, two world wars, concentration camp (invented by the British) butcher of 5 million Vietnamese to save them from communism. A continent that have only learn to live in peace since 1945.
Much fucked up ideals, don't you think? Or is your reading of history limited to the past ten years?
OK, that's a few chunks of history over a 500 year span. Let's observe that you started with the Spanish committing genocide there. And let's not mention Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot as that doesn't quite fit the narrative.
Yet it's so often us British self flagellating.
I posted in the politics thread before, America made things worse, but the Middle East was fucked as soon as France started selling
nuclear tech to Iran in the 1970s.
Since you missed my point, let me be clear. No people/region/faith have a monopoly on fucked up ideals. But if you want to make the case that other people are more fucked up than yours, then you should know your history for at least the last 3000 years - see, I started with the crusades. Sure, Moa and Stalin and Pol Pot were devils but at least they kept it in the family for the most part.
My point is that if you want to "Otherise" people and make then seems violent and warlike, then you should check you story first. No people have exported violence and plunder like European going back to the Romans. Until WW2 left the continent in ruins, Europe was always fighting one war or the other amongst themselves while the rest of the world looked on. So if you want to call other regions fucked up, then look at the complete picture. Almost every single conflict in the world today - including those in Middle East - is a hangover of European colonisation and their straight line borders.
So really people should get over their exceptionalism.
So there was no war in China, Japan, Mongolia, Africa. Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, the levant etc.. through the ages. That's good to hear.
OK. Let me make it simple. The response was to a post implying that the people of the Middle East are by nature more fucked up that everyone else. My post was just to balance the ledger to show that brown people do not have a monopoly on fucked up violent ideas.
Do you understand now? No set of people or region in more fucked up than the other when it comes to be brutal.
Well when you put it using those words. Yes of course it makes sense. There are however areas of the planet which over the years have been more susceptible to internal and external wars... The balkans... And yes the middle east to name but two.
Which makes sense for the west to constantly poke its nose in,in the case of the middle east.
Well there's a challenge... Balancing when and how to intervene if at all. How civilised would we be if we sat back as an example and let assad commit genocide? Do we sit and watch as they slaughter innocents or do we "intervene" to attempt to help resolution... Or closer to home.... The northern Ireland situation. UN peacekeeping... Have they ever helped a situation? "Good point. But has our intervention helped the Syrian people? Let's say that Assad, the brutal man that he is, had killed 100,000 to quell the rebellion. How does that butcher's bill compare with the future of Dave and Barack effort? I fear that intervention almost always ended up causing a bigger butcher's bill. I say leave people to find their way - not arming one side against another | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Well this went as well as I expected
Small picture: people are here who can spread germs. Let's vaccinate them
Medium picture: geopolitical instability might cause immigration irregularities
Bigger picture: there's huge context to geopolitical instability and we should look to our part in that rather than shrugging it off, so we can be better global citizens and maybe try to fix shit.
Shrug.
A sensible approach. The bigger picture may even reduce some of the self negative aspects of people who then develop into those seeing such diversity as division.
nice summary, however there was a doctor on radio saying its not her job to decide who can and who cant use nhs, callers quickly pointed out her first loyalty should be to be people that actually keep her in a job via their taxes.
but yes if we could vaccinate the world tomorrow that would be great but we cant
Her first loyalty is to public health in the UK, which is threatened by the unvaccinated. The virus doesn't care if a person pays taxes or not when it spreads
By jabbing undocumented immigrants, we also protect ourselves. It's self interest "You say that, but sadly the average person doesn't see it that way, or that's how it comes across. It's crushing really, I deal with that mindset so often on family zoom calls. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Well this went as well as I expected
Small picture: people are here who can spread germs. Let's vaccinate them
Medium picture: geopolitical instability might cause immigration irregularities
Bigger picture: there's huge context to geopolitical instability and we should look to our part in that rather than shrugging it off, so we can be better global citizens and maybe try to fix shit.
Shrug.
A sensible approach. The bigger picture may even reduce some of the self negative aspects of people who then develop into those seeing such diversity as division.
nice summary, however there was a doctor on radio saying its not her job to decide who can and who cant use nhs, callers quickly pointed out her first loyalty should be to be people that actually keep her in a job via their taxes.
but yes if we could vaccinate the world tomorrow that would be great but we cant
Her first loyalty is to public health in the UK, which is threatened by the unvaccinated. The virus doesn't care if a person pays taxes or not when it spreads
By jabbing undocumented immigrants, we also protect ourselves. It's self interest
You say that, but sadly the average person doesn't see it that way, or that's how it comes across.
It's crushing really, I deal with that mindset so often on family zoom calls."I know. I know I'm pissing into the wind. But I try, and shower regularly. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Well this went as well as I expected
Small picture: people are here who can spread germs. Let's vaccinate them
Medium picture: geopolitical instability might cause immigration irregularities
Bigger picture: there's huge context to geopolitical instability and we should look to our part in that rather than shrugging it off, so we can be better global citizens and maybe try to fix shit.
Shrug.
A sensible approach. The bigger picture may even reduce some of the self negative aspects of people who then develop into those seeing such diversity as division.
nice summary, however there was a doctor on radio saying its not her job to decide who can and who cant use nhs, callers quickly pointed out her first loyalty should be to be people that actually keep her in a job via their taxes.
but yes if we could vaccinate the world tomorrow that would be great but we cant
Her first loyalty is to public health in the UK, which is threatened by the unvaccinated. The virus doesn't care if a person pays taxes or not when it spreads
By jabbing undocumented immigrants, we also protect ourselves. It's self interest "But you have to look at specific examples rather than generalise. If it's putting a 25 year old homeless fruit picker in the queue ahead of a 55 year old shelf stacker, then no, that's not optimal for the health of Everyone. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Well this went as well as I expected
Small picture: people are here who can spread germs. Let's vaccinate them
Medium picture: geopolitical instability might cause immigration irregularities
Bigger picture: there's huge context to geopolitical instability and we should look to our part in that rather than shrugging it off, so we can be better global citizens and maybe try to fix shit.
Shrug.
A sensible approach. The bigger picture may even reduce some of the self negative aspects of people who then develop into those seeing such diversity as division.
nice summary, however there was a doctor on radio saying its not her job to decide who can and who cant use nhs, callers quickly pointed out her first loyalty should be to be people that actually keep her in a job via their taxes.
but yes if we could vaccinate the world tomorrow that would be great but we cant
Her first loyalty is to public health in the UK, which is threatened by the unvaccinated. The virus doesn't care if a person pays taxes or not when it spreads
By jabbing undocumented immigrants, we also protect ourselves. It's self interest
But you have to look at specific examples rather than generalise. If it's putting a 25 year old homeless fruit picker in the queue ahead of a 55 year old shelf stacker, then no, that's not optimal for the health of Everyone. "I'm talking in general terms. The specifics are government and NHS policy. It is in the interests of all of us for everyone to be jabbed, regardless of their paperwork. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol
So let me see what history tells us. Two crusades against brown people, near total genocide or an entire race (mesoamericans), inquisitions and religious persecution, force conversions, 300 years of industrial chattel very of an entire race, colonisation and destruction on every continent not their own, two world wars, concentration camp (invented by the British) butcher of 5 million Vietnamese to save them from communism. A continent that have only learn to live in peace since 1945.
Much fucked up ideals, don't you think? Or is your reading of history limited to the past ten years?
OK, that's a few chunks of history over a 500 year span. Let's observe that you started with the Spanish committing genocide there. And let's not mention Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot as that doesn't quite fit the narrative.
Yet it's so often us British self flagellating.
I posted in the politics thread before, America made things worse, but the Middle East was fucked as soon as France started selling
nuclear tech to Iran in the 1970s.
Since you missed my point, let me be clear. No people/region/faith have a monopoly on fucked up ideals. But if you want to make the case that other people are more fucked up than yours, then you should know your history for at least the last 3000 years - see, I started with the crusades. Sure, Moa and Stalin and Pol Pot were devils but at least they kept it in the family for the most part.
My point is that if you want to "Otherise" people and make then seems violent and warlike, then you should check you story first. No people have exported violence and plunder like European going back to the Romans. Until WW2 left the continent in ruins, Europe was always fighting one war or the other amongst themselves while the rest of the world looked on. So if you want to call other regions fucked up, then look at the complete picture. Almost every single conflict in the world today - including those in Middle East - is a hangover of European colonisation and their straight line borders.
So really people should get over their exceptionalism.
So there was no war in China, Japan, Mongolia, Africa. Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, the levant etc.. through the ages. That's good to hear.
OK. Let me make it simple. The response was to a post implying that the people of the Middle East are by nature more fucked up that everyone else. My post was just to balance the ledger to show that brown people do not have a monopoly on fucked up violent ideas.
Do you understand now? No set of people or region in more fucked up than the other when it comes to be brutal.
Well when you put it using those words. Yes of course it makes sense. There are however areas of the planet which over the years have been more susceptible to internal and external wars... The balkans... And yes the middle east to name but two. "Over the last 40 years, sure the Balkans and Middle East have been more "susceptible" to conflict. Go back a bit further and it was another part of the world which was warring... the point is this sense of exceptionalism is bullshit. The idea that "those other people", whoever they are or wherever they're from, are inherently more savage than us is bullshit. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"As far as vaccines go everyone should get one here or abroad and as far as the title illegal if they have skills and are prepared to work and offer something to society isn't it time we made them legal immigrants no matter how they got here. "
As a legal immigrant who has had many many rounds with the Home Office... I wish | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. That’ll be that thread sorted...... But I bet it’s not
Nothing to see here lol
Apart from the racist c...
A concern over immigration- legal or not, is not racist.
Well, actually it *can* be.
Plenty of examples of it through history."Agreed it can be but why do some people automatically assume it is? It might just be the fact they're illegal regardless of race | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"As far as vaccines go everyone should get one here or abroad and as far as the title illegal if they have skills and are prepared to work and offer something to society isn't it time we made them legal immigrants no matter how they got here. " and there should also be unicorns and world peace | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. That’ll be that thread sorted...... But I bet it’s not
Nothing to see here lol
Apart from the racist c...
A concern over immigration- legal or not, is not racist.
Well, actually it *can* be.
Plenty of examples of it through history.
Agreed it can be but why do some people automatically assume it is? It might just be the fact they're illegal regardless of race"The idea that people can be illegal is rather bizarre really. Cal | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. That’ll be that thread sorted...... But I bet it’s not
Nothing to see here lol
Apart from the racist c...
A concern over immigration- legal or not, is not racist.
Well, actually it *can* be.
Plenty of examples of it through history.
Agreed it can be but why do some people automatically assume it is? It might just be the fact they're illegal regardless of race
The idea that people can be illegal is rather bizarre really.
Cal"In a perfect world you are right. All round to your house then? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol
So let me see what history tells us. Two crusades against brown people, near total genocide or an entire race (mesoamericans), inquisitions and religious persecution, force conversions, 300 years of industrial chattel very of an entire race, colonisation and destruction on every continent not their own, two world wars, concentration camp (invented by the British) butcher of 5 million Vietnamese to save them from communism. A continent that have only learn to live in peace since 1945.
Much fucked up ideals, don't you think? Or is your reading of history limited to the past ten years?
OK, that's a few chunks of history over a 500 year span. Let's observe that you started with the Spanish committing genocide there. And let's not mention Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot as that doesn't quite fit the narrative.
Yet it's so often us British self flagellating.
I posted in the politics thread before, America made things worse, but the Middle East was fucked as soon as France started selling
nuclear tech to Iran in the 1970s.
Since you missed my point, let me be clear. No people/region/faith have a monopoly on fucked up ideals. But if you want to make the case that other people are more fucked up than yours, then you should know your history for at least the last 3000 years - see, I started with the crusades. Sure, Moa and Stalin and Pol Pot were devils but at least they kept it in the family for the most part.
My point is that if you want to "Otherise" people and make then seems violent and warlike, then you should check you story first. No people have exported violence and plunder like European going back to the Romans. Until WW2 left the continent in ruins, Europe was always fighting one war or the other amongst themselves while the rest of the world looked on. So if you want to call other regions fucked up, then look at the complete picture. Almost every single conflict in the world today - including those in Middle East - is a hangover of European colonisation and their straight line borders.
So really people should get over their exceptionalism.
So there was no war in China, Japan, Mongolia, Africa. Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, the levant etc.. through the ages. That's good to hear.
OK. Let me make it simple. The response was to a post implying that the people of the Middle East are by nature more fucked up that everyone else. My post was just to balance the ledger to show that brown people do not have a monopoly on fucked up violent ideas.
Do you understand now? No set of people or region in more fucked up than the other when it comes to be brutal.
Well when you put it using those words. Yes of course it makes sense. There are however areas of the planet which over the years have been more susceptible to internal and external wars... The balkans... And yes the middle east to name but two.
Which makes sense for the west to constantly poke its nose in,in the case of the middle east.
Well there's a challenge... Balancing when and how to intervene if at all. How civilised would we be if we sat back as an example and let assad commit genocide? Do we sit and watch as they slaughter innocents or do we "intervene" to attempt to help resolution... Or closer to home.... The northern Ireland situation. UN peacekeeping... Have they ever helped a situation? "Its not that clear cut. When we do intervened there is often a reason behind it. It's very rarely a moral obligation | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol
So let me see what history tells us. Two crusades against brown people, near total genocide or an entire race (mesoamericans), inquisitions and religious persecution, force conversions, 300 years of industrial chattel very of an entire race, colonisation and destruction on every continent not their own, two world wars, concentration camp (invented by the British) butcher of 5 million Vietnamese to save them from communism. A continent that have only learn to live in peace since 1945.
Much fucked up ideals, don't you think? Or is your reading of history limited to the past ten years?
OK, that's a few chunks of history over a 500 year span. Let's observe that you started with the Spanish committing genocide there. And let's not mention Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot as that doesn't quite fit the narrative.
Yet it's so often us British self flagellating.
I posted in the politics thread before, America made things worse, but the Middle East was fucked as soon as France started selling
nuclear tech to Iran in the 1970s.
Since you missed my point, let me be clear. No people/region/faith have a monopoly on fucked up ideals. But if you want to make the case that other people are more fucked up than yours, then you should know your history for at least the last 3000 years - see, I started with the crusades. Sure, Moa and Stalin and Pol Pot were devils but at least they kept it in the family for the most part.
My point is that if you want to "Otherise" people and make then seems violent and warlike, then you should check you story first. No people have exported violence and plunder like European going back to the Romans. Until WW2 left the continent in ruins, Europe was always fighting one war or the other amongst themselves while the rest of the world looked on. So if you want to call other regions fucked up, then look at the complete picture. Almost every single conflict in the world today - including those in Middle East - is a hangover of European colonisation and their straight line borders.
So really people should get over their exceptionalism.
So there was no war in China, Japan, Mongolia, Africa. Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, the levant etc.. through the ages. That's good to hear.
OK. Let me make it simple. The response was to a post implying that the people of the Middle East are by nature more fucked up that everyone else. My post was just to balance the ledger to show that brown people do not have a monopoly on fucked up violent ideas.
Do you understand now? No set of people or region in more fucked up than the other when it comes to be brutal.
Well when you put it using those words. Yes of course it makes sense. There are however areas of the planet which over the years have been more susceptible to internal and external wars... The balkans... And yes the middle east to name but two.
Which makes sense for the west to constantly poke its nose in,in the case of the middle east.
Well it was unanswered earlier in the thread - are we poking our nose in if we have boots on the ground in Rwanda? Balkans? Myanmar?
Loads of liberals were begging us to do "something" about Syria.
I'm just reacting to the notions that "we" (the evil West or something) caused all the trouble in the world and "we" should sort it out. Without causing more instability of course. "We haven't helped the situation at all. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. That’ll be that thread sorted...... But I bet it’s not
Nothing to see here lol
Apart from the racist c...
A concern over immigration- legal or not, is not racist.
Well, actually it *can* be.
Plenty of examples of it through history.
Agreed it can be but why do some people automatically assume it is? It might just be the fact they're illegal regardless of race
The idea that people can be illegal is rather bizarre really.
Cal
In a perfect world you are right. All round to your house then? "That makes no sense | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. That’ll be that thread sorted...... But I bet it’s not
Nothing to see here lol
Apart from the racist c...
A concern over immigration- legal or not, is not racist.
Well, actually it *can* be.
Plenty of examples of it through history.
Agreed it can be but why do some people automatically assume it is? It might just be the fact they're illegal regardless of race
The idea that people can be illegal is rather bizarre really.
Cal"Ok, people who have entered the country illegally, I stand corrected | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol
So let me see what history tells us. Two crusades against brown people, near total genocide or an entire race (mesoamericans), inquisitions and religious persecution, force conversions, 300 years of industrial chattel very of an entire race, colonisation and destruction on every continent not their own, two world wars, concentration camp (invented by the British) butcher of 5 million Vietnamese to save them from communism. A continent that have only learn to live in peace since 1945.
Much fucked up ideals, don't you think? Or is your reading of history limited to the past ten years?
OK, that's a few chunks of history over a 500 year span. Let's observe that you started with the Spanish committing genocide there. And let's not mention Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot as that doesn't quite fit the narrative.
Yet it's so often us British self flagellating.
I posted in the politics thread before, America made things worse, but the Middle East was fucked as soon as France started selling
nuclear tech to Iran in the 1970s.
Since you missed my point, let me be clear. No people/region/faith have a monopoly on fucked up ideals. But if you want to make the case that other people are more fucked up than yours, then you should know your history for at least the last 3000 years - see, I started with the crusades. Sure, Moa and Stalin and Pol Pot were devils but at least they kept it in the family for the most part.
My point is that if you want to "Otherise" people and make then seems violent and warlike, then you should check you story first. No people have exported violence and plunder like European going back to the Romans. Until WW2 left the continent in ruins, Europe was always fighting one war or the other amongst themselves while the rest of the world looked on. So if you want to call other regions fucked up, then look at the complete picture. Almost every single conflict in the world today - including those in Middle East - is a hangover of European colonisation and their straight line borders.
So really people should get over their exceptionalism.
So there was no war in China, Japan, Mongolia, Africa. Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, the levant etc.. through the ages. That's good to hear.
OK. Let me make it simple. The response was to a post implying that the people of the Middle East are by nature more fucked up that everyone else. My post was just to balance the ledger to show that brown people do not have a monopoly on fucked up violent ideas.
Do you understand now? No set of people or region in more fucked up than the other when it comes to be brutal.
Well when you put it using those words. Yes of course it makes sense. There are however areas of the planet which over the years have been more susceptible to internal and external wars... The balkans... And yes the middle east to name but two.
Which makes sense for the west to constantly poke its nose in,in the case of the middle east.
Well there's a challenge... Balancing when and how to intervene if at all. How civilised would we be if we sat back as an example and let assad commit genocide? Do we sit and watch as they slaughter innocents or do we "intervene" to attempt to help resolution... Or closer to home.... The northern Ireland situation. UN peacekeeping... Have they ever helped a situation?
Good point. But has our intervention helped the Syrian people? Let's say that Assad, the brutal man that he is, had killed 100,000 to quell the rebellion. How does that butcher's bill compare with the future of Dave and Barack effort? I fear that intervention almost always ended up causing a bigger butcher's bill. I say leave people to find their way - not arming one side against another"So now we are developing the discussion. Let's explore Syria further. Who's intervention? Russia? France? China? America? EU? Britain? That's before you get to Turkey? Israel? Iran? Saudi? Who's intervention helps or hinders? Short term or long term? You see it isn't as simple as a binary? Should we intervene with financial support? With "charity"? What about medicines and health? Or infrastructure? Or to stop slaughter or the use of chemical weapons? My personal opinion is that sometimes it's for the better and sometimes it's for the worse...should we have intervened when Germany invaded Poland and Czech and Austria and when millions of Jews were being slaughtered? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. That’ll be that thread sorted...... But I bet it’s not
Nothing to see here lol
Apart from the racist c...
A concern over immigration- legal or not, is not racist.
Well, actually it *can* be.
Plenty of examples of it through history.
Agreed it can be but why do some people automatically assume it is? It might just be the fact they're illegal regardless of race
The idea that people can be illegal is rather bizarre really.
Cal
In a perfect world you are right. All round to your house then?
That makes no sense ""Those do gooders want to ruin our country by helping outsiders, they can house them and feed them. If they don't have a refugee in their spare room (or their room if they don't have a spare room) right now then their argument is invalid". Not the first time I've seen variations of this. Imagine having opinions on how you want your country to be run, and expressing them. Shocking. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. That’ll be that thread sorted...... But I bet it’s not
Nothing to see here lol
Apart from the racist c...
A concern over immigration- legal or not, is not racist.
Well, actually it *can* be.
Plenty of examples of it through history.
Agreed it can be but why do some people automatically assume it is? It might just be the fact they're illegal regardless of race
The idea that people can be illegal is rather bizarre really.
Cal
In a perfect world you are right. All round to your house then?
That makes no sense
"Those do gooders want to ruin our country by helping outsiders, they can house them and feed them. If they don't have a refugee in their spare room (or their room if they don't have a spare room) right now then their argument is invalid".
Not the first time I've seen variations of this.
Imagine having opinions on how you want your country to be run, and expressing them. Shocking."Said it before. The fact that do gooders has become a derogatory term speaks volumes. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. That’ll be that thread sorted...... But I bet it’s not
Nothing to see here lol
Apart from the racist c...
A concern over immigration- legal or not, is not racist.
Well, actually it *can* be.
Plenty of examples of it through history.
Agreed it can be but why do some people automatically assume it is? It might just be the fact they're illegal regardless of race"At it's simplest... Why do you / we have doors and windows that lock on your house? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol
So let me see what history tells us. Two crusades against brown people, near total genocide or an entire race (mesoamericans), inquisitions and religious persecution, force conversions, 300 years of industrial chattel very of an entire race, colonisation and destruction on every continent not their own, two world wars, concentration camp (invented by the British) butcher of 5 million Vietnamese to save them from communism. A continent that have only learn to live in peace since 1945.
Much fucked up ideals, don't you think? Or is your reading of history limited to the past ten years?
OK, that's a few chunks of history over a 500 year span. Let's observe that you started with the Spanish committing genocide there. And let's not mention Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot as that doesn't quite fit the narrative.
Yet it's so often us British self flagellating.
I posted in the politics thread before, America made things worse, but the Middle East was fucked as soon as France started selling
nuclear tech to Iran in the 1970s.
Since you missed my point, let me be clear. No people/region/faith have a monopoly on fucked up ideals. But if you want to make the case that other people are more fucked up than yours, then you should know your history for at least the last 3000 years - see, I started with the crusades. Sure, Moa and Stalin and Pol Pot were devils but at least they kept it in the family for the most part.
My point is that if you want to "Otherise" people and make then seems violent and warlike, then you should check you story first. No people have exported violence and plunder like European going back to the Romans. Until WW2 left the continent in ruins, Europe was always fighting one war or the other amongst themselves while the rest of the world looked on. So if you want to call other regions fucked up, then look at the complete picture. Almost every single conflict in the world today - including those in Middle East - is a hangover of European colonisation and their straight line borders.
So really people should get over their exceptionalism.
So there was no war in China, Japan, Mongolia, Africa. Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, the levant etc.. through the ages. That's good to hear.
OK. Let me make it simple. The response was to a post implying that the people of the Middle East are by nature more fucked up that everyone else. My post was just to balance the ledger to show that brown people do not have a monopoly on fucked up violent ideas.
Do you understand now? No set of people or region in more fucked up than the other when it comes to be brutal.
Well when you put it using those words. Yes of course it makes sense. There are however areas of the planet which over the years have been more susceptible to internal and external wars... The balkans... And yes the middle east to name but two.
Which makes sense for the west to constantly poke its nose in,in the case of the middle east.
Well there's a challenge... Balancing when and how to intervene if at all. How civilised would we be if we sat back as an example and let assad commit genocide? Do we sit and watch as they slaughter innocents or do we "intervene" to attempt to help resolution... Or closer to home.... The northern Ireland situation. UN peacekeeping... Have they ever helped a situation?
Good point. But has our intervention helped the Syrian people? Let's say that Assad, the brutal man that he is, had killed 100,000 to quell the rebellion. How does that butcher's bill compare with the future of Dave and Barack effort? I fear that intervention almost always ended up causing a bigger butcher's bill. I say leave people to find their way - not arming one side against another
So now we are developing the discussion. Let's explore Syria further. Who's intervention? Russia? France? China? America? EU? Britain? That's before you get to Turkey? Israel? Iran? Saudi? Who's intervention helps or hinders? Short term or long term? You see it isn't as simple as a binary? Should we intervene with financial support? With "charity"? What about medicines and health? Or infrastructure? Or to stop slaughter or the use of chemical weapons? My personal opinion is that sometimes it's for the better and sometimes it's for the worse...should we have intervened when Germany invaded Poland and Czech and Austria and when millions of Jews were being slaughtered? "I think that was the point of the un,so if invention was needed ,it had collective support | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol
So let me see what history tells us. Two crusades against brown people, near total genocide or an entire race (mesoamericans), inquisitions and religious persecution, force conversions, 300 years of industrial chattel very of an entire race, colonisation and destruction on every continent not their own, two world wars, concentration camp (invented by the British) butcher of 5 million Vietnamese to save them from communism. A continent that have only learn to live in peace since 1945.
Much fucked up ideals, don't you think? Or is your reading of history limited to the past ten years?
OK, that's a few chunks of history over a 500 year span. Let's observe that you started with the Spanish committing genocide there. And let's not mention Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot as that doesn't quite fit the narrative.
Yet it's so often us British self flagellating.
I posted in the politics thread before, America made things worse, but the Middle East was fucked as soon as France started selling
nuclear tech to Iran in the 1970s.
Since you missed my point, let me be clear. No people/region/faith have a monopoly on fucked up ideals. But if you want to make the case that other people are more fucked up than yours, then you should know your history for at least the last 3000 years - see, I started with the crusades. Sure, Moa and Stalin and Pol Pot were devils but at least they kept it in the family for the most part.
My point is that if you want to "Otherise" people and make then seems violent and warlike, then you should check you story first. No people have exported violence and plunder like European going back to the Romans. Until WW2 left the continent in ruins, Europe was always fighting one war or the other amongst themselves while the rest of the world looked on. So if you want to call other regions fucked up, then look at the complete picture. Almost every single conflict in the world today - including those in Middle East - is a hangover of European colonisation and their straight line borders.
So really people should get over their exceptionalism.
So there was no war in China, Japan, Mongolia, Africa. Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, the levant etc.. through the ages. That's good to hear.
OK. Let me make it simple. The response was to a post implying that the people of the Middle East are by nature more fucked up that everyone else. My post was just to balance the ledger to show that brown people do not have a monopoly on fucked up violent ideas.
Do you understand now? No set of people or region in more fucked up than the other when it comes to be brutal.
Well when you put it using those words. Yes of course it makes sense. There are however areas of the planet which over the years have been more susceptible to internal and external wars... The balkans... And yes the middle east to name but two.
Which makes sense for the west to constantly poke its nose in,in the case of the middle east.
Well there's a challenge... Balancing when and how to intervene if at all. How civilised would we be if we sat back as an example and let assad commit genocide? Do we sit and watch as they slaughter innocents or do we "intervene" to attempt to help resolution... Or closer to home.... The northern Ireland situation. UN peacekeeping... Have they ever helped a situation?
Good point. But has our intervention helped the Syrian people? Let's say that Assad, the brutal man that he is, had killed 100,000 to quell the rebellion. How does that butcher's bill compare with the future of Dave and Barack effort? I fear that intervention almost always ended up causing a bigger butcher's bill. I say leave people to find their way - not arming one side against another
So now we are developing the discussion. Let's explore Syria further. Who's intervention? Russia? France? China? America? EU? Britain? That's before you get to Turkey? Israel? Iran? Saudi? Who's intervention helps or hinders? Short term or long term? You see it isn't as simple as a binary? Should we intervene with financial support? With "charity"? What about medicines and health? Or infrastructure? Or to stop slaughter or the use of chemical weapons? My personal opinion is that sometimes it's for the better and sometimes it's for the worse...should we have intervened when Germany invaded Poland and Czech and Austria and when millions of Jews were being slaughtered? "We should have intervened BEFORE the slaughter of the Jews (appeasement period). We should have perhaps tried harder in the period 1939-1945 but by then it was rather more difficult to intervene positively. There's a documentary drama about the fact that the Allies debated bombing Auschwitz for a good while in 1944/5. | |||
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"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. That’ll be that thread sorted...... But I bet it’s not
Nothing to see here lol
Apart from the racist c...
A concern over immigration- legal or not, is not racist.
Well, actually it *can* be.
Plenty of examples of it through history.
Agreed it can be but why do some people automatically assume it is? It might just be the fact they're illegal regardless of race
The idea that people can be illegal is rather bizarre really.
Cal
In a perfect world you are right. All round to your house then?
That makes no sense
"Those do gooders want to ruin our country by helping outsiders, they can house them and feed them. If they don't have a refugee in their spare room (or their room if they don't have a spare room) right now then their argument is invalid".
Not the first time I've seen variations of this.
Imagine having opinions on how you want your country to be run, and expressing them. Shocking.
Said it before.
The fact that do gooders has become a derogatory term speaks volumes."Do gooders, virtue signalling. I'm pretty sure if we started talking about do badders and vice signalling people would get upset | |||
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"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. That’ll be that thread sorted...... But I bet it’s not
Nothing to see here lol
Apart from the racist c...
A concern over immigration- legal or not, is not racist.
Well, actually it *can* be.
Plenty of examples of it through history.
Agreed it can be but why do some people automatically assume it is? It might just be the fact they're illegal regardless of race
At it's simplest... Why do you / we have doors and windows that lock on your house? "That's easy keep bogey man out | |||
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"Oh, and we should have allowed Jewish people to flee rather than requiring them to get UK based sponsors etc. We blocked the "mass" influx of Jews trying to leave because of the same racist issues as today "we don't want those bloody foreigners here"." Is it wrong to want Britain for the British? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. That’ll be that thread sorted...... But I bet it’s not
Nothing to see here lol
Apart from the racist c...
A concern over immigration- legal or not, is not racist.
Well, actually it *can* be.
Plenty of examples of it through history.
Agreed it can be but why do some people automatically assume it is? It might just be the fact they're illegal regardless of race
The idea that people can be illegal is rather bizarre really.
Cal
In a perfect world you are right. All round to your house then?
That makes no sense "I’m not a fan of borders. However, I guess it’s a consequence of law and order, otherwise it’s open house. | |||
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"Oh, and we should have allowed Jewish people to flee rather than requiring them to get UK based sponsors etc. We blocked the "mass" influx of Jews trying to leave because of the same racist issues as today "we don't want those bloody foreigners here". Is it wrong to want Britain for the British?" How do you define British? | |||
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"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. That’ll be that thread sorted...... But I bet it’s not
Nothing to see here lol
Apart from the racist c...
A concern over immigration- legal or not, is not racist.
Well, actually it *can* be.
Plenty of examples of it through history.
Agreed it can be but why do some people automatically assume it is? It might just be the fact they're illegal regardless of race
The idea that people can be illegal is rather bizarre really.
Cal
----
Ok, people who have entered the country illegally, I stand corrected"Regardless of how it's phrased, the idea that the world is all carved up into chunks and assigned ownership is inherently wrong. People should be able to travel wherever they want to. I'm not saying that people travelling across the world should be entitled to housing or welfare benefits... that's a whole other ballgame. Cal | |||
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"Oh, and we should have allowed Jewish people to flee rather than requiring them to get UK based sponsors etc. We blocked the "mass" influx of Jews trying to leave because of the same racist issues as today "we don't want those bloody foreigners here". Is it wrong to want Britain for the British?" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Oh, and we should have allowed Jewish people to flee rather than requiring them to get UK based sponsors etc. We blocked the "mass" influx of Jews trying to leave because of the same racist issues as today "we don't want those bloody foreigners here". Is it wrong to want Britain for the British?" It's amazing when I talk to people in person who have that view, they tell me I'm British. *Looks at my blue passport with a kangaroo on it* | |||
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"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. That’ll be that thread sorted...... But I bet it’s not
Nothing to see here lol
Apart from the racist c...
A concern over immigration- legal or not, is not racist.
Well, actually it *can* be.
Plenty of examples of it through history.
Agreed it can be but why do some people automatically assume it is? It might just be the fact they're illegal regardless of race
The idea that people can be illegal is rather bizarre really.
Cal
In a perfect world you are right. All round to your house then?
That makes no sense
"Those do gooders want to ruin our country by helping outsiders, they can house them and feed them. If they don't have a refugee in their spare room (or their room if they don't have a spare room) right now then their argument is invalid".
Not the first time I've seen variations of this.
Imagine having opinions on how you want your country to be run, and expressing them. Shocking." yes jeremy clarkson said if he can live anywhere he chooses george clooneys house on lake como.... come one everybody! lol | |||
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"Oh, and we should have allowed Jewish people to flee rather than requiring them to get UK based sponsors etc. We blocked the "mass" influx of Jews trying to leave because of the same racist issues as today "we don't want those bloody foreigners here". Is it wrong to want Britain for the British?" My Great Grandfather, an ethnic Dutch Jew, naturalised in 1915. His passport was British. Was he not British? He was unable to sponsor his Jewish relatives to come from the Netherlands because by 1939, he was retired. He was wealthy but retired. All the family perished - exterminated in Sobibor and Auschwitz Am I British?! Does it matter? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Oh, and we should have allowed Jewish people to flee rather than requiring them to get UK based sponsors etc. We blocked the "mass" influx of Jews trying to leave because of the same racist issues as today "we don't want those bloody foreigners here". Is it wrong to want Britain for the British? It's amazing when I talk to people in person who have that view, they tell me I'm British. *Looks at my blue passport with a kangaroo on it*" Yeah, but you're white AND probably not some "other" religion. And you lot are descendants of "real" Brits anyway 
(Tongue cheek in. Rearrange.....) | |||
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"They've been offered an exemption from immigration enforcement to get the jab. Herd immunity is all of us. That’ll be that thread sorted...... But I bet it’s not
Nothing to see here lol
Apart from the racist c...
A concern over immigration- legal or not, is not racist.
Well, actually it *can* be.
Plenty of examples of it through history.
Agreed it can be but why do some people automatically assume it is? It might just be the fact they're illegal regardless of race
The idea that people can be illegal is rather bizarre really.
Cal
In a perfect world you are right. All round to your house then?
That makes no sense
"Those do gooders want to ruin our country by helping outsiders, they can house them and feed them. If they don't have a refugee in their spare room (or their room if they don't have a spare room) right now then their argument is invalid".
Not the first time I've seen variations of this.
Imagine having opinions on how you want your country to be run, and expressing them. Shocking.
yes jeremy clarkson said if he can live anywhere he chooses george clooneys house on lake como.... come one everybody! lol "I mean if you want to make puerile arguments, knock yourself out. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Oh, and we should have allowed Jewish people to flee rather than requiring them to get UK based sponsors etc. We blocked the "mass" influx of Jews trying to leave because of the same racist issues as today "we don't want those bloody foreigners here". Is it wrong to want Britain for the British? It's amazing when I talk to people in person who have that view, they tell me I'm British. *Looks at my blue passport with a kangaroo on it* Yeah, but you're white AND probably not some "other" religion. And you lot are descendants of "real" Brits anyway
(Tongue cheek in. Rearrange.....)" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Go and read where Alqaeda and Osama bin Laden etc came from. You will find a connection to the Afghan vs Soviet Union conflict of the 1980s, very well known
I'm talking the ideals, it's all a fuck fest and has been since records began because it's all so divided, but we can blame the usa Russia Wales, they never get the blame lol
So let me see what history tells us. Two crusades against brown people, near total genocide or an entire race (mesoamericans), inquisitions and religious persecution, force conversions, 300 years of industrial chattel very of an entire race, colonisation and destruction on every continent not their own, two world wars, concentration camp (invented by the British) butcher of 5 million Vietnamese to save them from communism. A continent that have only learn to live in peace since 1945.
Much fucked up ideals, don't you think? Or is your reading of history limited to the past ten years?
OK, that's a few chunks of history over a 500 year span. Let's observe that you started with the Spanish committing genocide there. And let's not mention Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot as that doesn't quite fit the narrative.
Yet it's so often us British self flagellating.
I posted in the politics thread before, America made things worse, but the Middle East was fucked as soon as France started selling
nuclear tech to Iran in the 1970s.
Since you missed my point, let me be clear. No people/region/faith have a monopoly on fucked up ideals. But if you want to make the case that other people are more fucked up than yours, then you should know your history for at least the last 3000 years - see, I started with the crusades. Sure, Moa and Stalin and Pol Pot were devils but at least they kept it in the family for the most part.
My point is that if you want to "Otherise" people and make then seems violent and warlike, then you should check you story first. No people have exported violence and plunder like European going back to the Romans. Until WW2 left the continent in ruins, Europe was always fighting one war or the other amongst themselves while the rest of the world looked on. So if you want to call other regions fucked up, then look at the complete picture. Almost every single conflict in the world today - including those in Middle East - is a hangover of European colonisation and their straight line borders.
So really people should get over their exceptionalism.
So there was no war in China, Japan, Mongolia, Africa. Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, the levant etc.. through the ages. That's good to hear.
OK. Let me make it simple. The response was to a post implying that the people of the Middle East are by nature more fucked up that everyone else. My post was just to balance the ledger to show that brown people do not have a monopoly on fucked up violent ideas.
Do you understand now? No set of people or region in more fucked up than the other when it comes to be brutal.
Well when you put it using those words. Yes of course it makes sense. There are however areas of the planet which over the years have been more susceptible to internal and external wars... The balkans... And yes the middle east to name but two.
Which makes sense for the west to constantly poke its nose in,in the case of the middle east.
Well there's a challenge... Balancing when and how to intervene if at all. How civilised would we be if we sat back as an example and let assad commit genocide? Do we sit and watch as they slaughter innocents or do we "intervene" to attempt to help resolution... Or closer to home.... The northern Ireland situation. UN peacekeeping... Have they ever helped a situation?
Good point. But has our intervention helped the Syrian people? Let's say that Assad, the brutal man that he is, had killed 100,000 to quell the rebellion. How does that butcher's bill compare with the future of Dave and Barack effort? I fear that intervention almost always ended up causing a bigger butcher's bill. I say leave people to find their way - not arming one side against another
So now we are developing the discussion. Let's explore Syria further. Who's intervention? Russia? France? China? America? EU? Britain? That's before you get to Turkey? Israel? Iran? Saudi? Who's intervention helps or hinders? Short term or long term? You see it isn't as simple as a binary? Should we intervene with financial support? With "charity"? What about medicines and health? Or infrastructure? Or to stop slaughter or the use of chemical weapons? My personal opinion is that sometimes it's for the better and sometimes it's for the worse...should we have intervened when Germany invaded Poland and Czech and Austria and when millions of Jews were being slaughtered?
We should have intervened BEFORE the slaughter of the Jews (appeasement period). We should have perhaps tried harder in the period 1939-1945 but by then it was rather more difficult to intervene positively. There's a documentary drama about the fact that the Allies debated bombing Auschwitz for a good while in 1944/5. "I'm just illustrating. Or trying to that it's very rarely as simple as saying we should keep our noses out (whoever "we" is). It seems to me that some people are saying we should intervene sometimes and not in others and in some matters and not in other matters. Now let's add in other types of intervention that modern technology has given us... Gas, oil, electricity, water (as is the case in China), power, data, cyber security, virus... Yes bio interventions... The list goes on.. I'm not sure we have the luxury or decadence of choosing to ignore what's happening to people in other countries at all times and in all circumstances. | |||
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"If I'm British, can I have my approximately £10k in Home Office fees back? "See. Immigrants thinking they can get everything for free. Told you so *eyeroll*
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"Oh, and we should have allowed Jewish people to flee rather than requiring them to get UK based sponsors etc. We blocked the "mass" influx of Jews trying to leave because of the same racist issues as today "we don't want those bloody foreigners here". Is it wrong to want Britain for the British? My Great Grandfather, an ethnic Dutch Jew, naturalised in 1915. His passport was British. Was he not British? He was unable to sponsor his Jewish relatives to come from the Netherlands because by 1939, he was retired. He was wealthy but retired. All the family perished - exterminated in Sobibor and Auschwitz Am I British?! Does it matter?" Is kc British? Now there's a subject for another thread! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Oh, and we should have allowed Jewish people to flee rather than requiring them to get UK based sponsors etc. We blocked the "mass" influx of Jews trying to leave because of the same racist issues as today "we don't want those bloody foreigners here". Is it wrong to want Britain for the British? My Great Grandfather, an ethnic Dutch Jew, naturalised in 1915. His passport was British. Was he not British? He was unable to sponsor his Jewish relatives to come from the Netherlands because by 1939, he was retired. He was wealthy but retired. All the family perished - exterminated in Sobibor and Auschwitz Am I British?! Does it matter? Is kc British? Now there's a subject for another thread! " Born here. Both parents born here. All Grandparents born here. British passport. "Foreign" Great Grandparents. Discuss.... | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Oh, and we should have allowed Jewish people to flee rather than requiring them to get UK based sponsors etc. We blocked the "mass" influx of Jews trying to leave because of the same racist issues as today "we don't want those bloody foreigners here". Is it wrong to want Britain for the British? "Is it ? | |||
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"If I'm British, can I have my approximately £10k in Home Office fees back?
See. Immigrants thinking they can get everything for free. Told you so *eyeroll*
"
I fucking wish.
My first fucking question on the life in the UK test (after they'd frisked me and checked my glasses for devices, I kid you not) was on the cricket series between Australia and the UK.
If it had been a less intimidating environment I would have shouted "are you fucking kidding me". | |||
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" Born here. Both parents born here. All Grandparents born here. British passport. "Foreign" Great Grandparents. Discuss.... " Swing. Born in Australia. Parents born in Australia. Grandparents born in Australia. All bar one great grandparent born in Australia. All bar five great great grandparents born in Australia. British. Duh | |||
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"Oh, and we should have allowed Jewish people to flee rather than requiring them to get UK based sponsors etc. We blocked the "mass" influx of Jews trying to leave because of the same racist issues as today "we don't want those bloody foreigners here". Is it wrong to want Britain for the British?" So my ancestors gave 200 years of free blood, sweat and tears (literally) to provide much of the commodities on which Britain is built. For the next 130 years, the were kept poor and uneducated as colonials in order to provide cheap labour for said commodities and see and soldiers willing to die for the "mother country". Do you think all of that entitles me to claim part of the inheritance that is modern Britain? We're family after all, even though my side of the family was forced into the unhappy marriage. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Oh, and we should have allowed Jewish people to flee rather than requiring them to get UK based sponsors etc. We blocked the "mass" influx of Jews trying to leave because of the same racist issues as today "we don't want those bloody foreigners here". Is it wrong to want Britain for the British?" So my ancestors gave 200 years of free blood, sweat and tears (literally) to provide much of the commodities on which Britain is built. For the next 130 years, the were kept poor and uneducated as colonials in order to provide cheap labour for said commodities and see and soldiers willing to die for the "mother country". Do you think all of that entitles me to claim part of the inheritance that is modern Britain? We're family after all, even though my side of the family was forced into the unhappy marriage. " My friend, you are as British as anyone else | |||
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