FabSwingers.com > Forums > Virus > Bosses may be able to demand new staff have jabs, suggests minister . .
Bosses may be able to demand new staff have jabs, suggests minister . .
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"https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-bosses-may-be-able-to-demand-new-staff-have-jabs-suggests-minister-12221398 "Coronavirus: Bosses may be able to demand new staff have jabs, suggests minister. A number of firms say they will not take on new staff who refuse to have the COVID-19 injection on non-medical grounds." In a face-to-face role I kind of agree with this. " As I have said befor this will be driven by the insurance companies It will be the same for lots of things. In Buissness if you want insurance you have to do what they ask | |||
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"Not sure how enforcable it would be though, what if you can't have the jab for medical reasons? , it would become a discrimination case ...." From the OP: "A number of firms say they will not take on new staff who refuse to have the COVID-19 injection on non-medical grounds." | |||
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"It's a lot of fuss over nothing. Most anti-vaxxers aren't high risk, funnily enough. It's easy to say you won't have it when you haven't been offered it and think you risk is low. Once most people have had it and the anti-vaxxers are the only ones left dying they will change their tune too... ah it's been tested on enough people now! And conveniently they will go get it. " I think the vaccine hesitant will fall in this category. The core anti vaxxers will not. But they're a pretty tiny minority | |||
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"Not sure how enforcable it would be though, what if you can't have the jab for medical reasons? , it would become a discrimination case ...." I've never had a job that doesn't require evidence of a set of specific vaccinations. Both private and public sector. | |||
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"So I don't want my immunity to be compromised by religious or other arseholes who don't want to have it for spurious joke reasons. " How does someone not having the vaccine compromise your immunity? | |||
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"Are you all wearing brown shirts in here? Everyone should have the jab or not work? So do you all think those not jabbed should walk around with a badge on to let all the perfectly jabbed people see how unclean they are by being unjabbed? Really in this day of age people are being so discriminatory against people refusing a mere jab talk about equality? Please just re-read what you have all just wrote I have never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life?" We seem to be discussing if something might happen. The only one jumping to brown shirt stuff is you. | |||
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"Are you all wearing brown shirts in here? Everyone should have the jab or not work? So do you all think those not jabbed should walk around with a badge on to let all the perfectly jabbed people see how unclean they are by being unjabbed? Really in this day of age people are being so discriminatory against people refusing a mere jab talk about equality? Please just re-read what you have all just wrote I have never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life?" I think making reference to people wearing a badge intimating they are or they are not vaccinated quite ridiculous. However, if I own a business and employ a number of employees and by virtue of a staff member saying he/she won't have A vaccination, and by doing so, and that decision could end up being financially detrimental to my business as well as their colleagues' jobs, then I'm NOT sorry to say I'd easily terminate their employment. If you're an anti-vaxxer, that is your decision and you have that right to do so...but then don't bleat and moan if circumstances and things in the future end up to your detriment for having that mind think. | |||
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"The last big thread on this, I read some legal commentary (law firms on their websites) which suggested it *might* be possible for healthcare and associated professions but would be more difficult, under current UK and EHCR law (as applied in the UK) more broadly. It is possible that the position has changed or the law might change." The wife is a nurse and she cant work with out Jabs if she has not had Hepitius B jab she cant work ans ever so ofetern has to have a test for antibdies. | |||
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"Not sure how enforcable it would be though, what if you can't have the jab for medical reasons? , it would become a discrimination case .... I've never had a job that doesn't require evidence of a set of specific vaccinations. Both private and public sector. " I have. Though a lot of jabs were given to me after I started. | |||
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"Not sure how enforcable it would be though, what if you can't have the jab for medical reasons? , it would become a discrimination case .... I've never had a job that doesn't require evidence of a set of specific vaccinations. Both private and public sector. I have. Though a lot of jabs were given to me after I started." Yer if you work in the water industry you have to have up to date jabs | |||
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"Are you all wearing brown shirts in here? Everyone should have the jab or not work? So do you all think those not jabbed should walk around with a badge on to let all the perfectly jabbed people see how unclean they are by being unjabbed? Really in this day of age people are being so discriminatory against people refusing a mere jab talk about equality? Please just re-read what you have all just wrote I have never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life? We seem to be discussing if something might happen. The only one jumping to brown shirt stuff is you." I'm sorry but I have to disagree, the tone of most that posted here dose comes across as such | |||
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"Are you all wearing brown shirts in here? Everyone should have the jab or not work? So do you all think those not jabbed should walk around with a badge on to let all the perfectly jabbed people see how unclean they are by being unjabbed? Really in this day of age people are being so discriminatory against people refusing a mere jab talk about equality? Please just re-read what you have all just wrote I have never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life? We seem to be discussing if something might happen. The only one jumping to brown shirt stuff is you. I'm sorry but I have to disagree, the tone of most that posted here dose comes across as such" ... Protection of individuals versus protection of society is a balancing act. It was ever thus. The position might change. Jumping to "tyranny!" is an unhelpful response. Why is this a bad thing? What factors have to be considered if such a thing should be done? Where do you think the balance should be between autonomy and public protection, and why? Discuss, don't throw accusations around. | |||
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"Are you all wearing brown shirts in here? Everyone should have the jab or not work? So do you all think those not jabbed should walk around with a badge on to let all the perfectly jabbed people see how unclean they are by being unjabbed? Really in this day of age people are being so discriminatory against people refusing a mere jab talk about equality? Please just re-read what you have all just wrote I have never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life?" So let me get this straight: You, nobody else on this thread, floated the idea that people should walk around with badge, saying they haven't been vaccinated, and that you've never heard of anything so ridiculous in all your life? It was your idea  | |||
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"Are you all wearing brown shirts in here? Everyone should have the jab or not work? So do you all think those not jabbed should walk around with a badge on to let all the perfectly jabbed people see how unclean they are by being unjabbed? Really in this day of age people are being so discriminatory against people refusing a mere jab talk about equality? Please just re-read what you have all just wrote I have never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life?" Your point about 'ridiculous' might well be more understandable had you not gone off in some weird different reality initially by mentioning brown shirts.. Context, equivalence etc.. | |||
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"Are you all wearing brown shirts in here? Everyone should have the jab or not work? So do you all think those not jabbed should walk around with a badge on to let all the perfectly jabbed people see how unclean they are by being unjabbed? Really in this day of age people are being so discriminatory against people refusing a mere jab talk about equality? Please just re-read what you have all just wrote I have never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life?" Do we not all have the right to be safe from selfish people who won't have the vaccination and keep spreading it to people who cannot take it. Or risk spreading a new strain, and us all being back to square one  | |||
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"My friend can't take asprin or paracetamol (along with a long list of other stuff) as it will kill him (kill him dead) he can't have the vax for fear of death so why should he loose his job when all around him are vaccinated so should be fine (if he were to catch it) there is no way he could ever have the jab so how can he be discriminated against for this and loose his job over it? Or is it that covid is just a smoke screen for what is really going on as I know of a nurse who has had both jabs and still made to self isolate when surely she should be fine with both jabs or is this the beginning of the jab a month for the next 8years? Biggest human social experiment we have ever known and voluntary aswell you couldn't write this in a book?" The proposal seems to be "those who CHOOSE not to have the vaccine", not "those who CANNOT have the vaccine". Your friend would be fine, and would be protected by those who've been vaccinated around him. | |||
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"My friend can't take asprin or paracetamol (along with a long list of other stuff) as it will kill him (kill him dead) he can't have the vax for fear of death so why should he loose his job when all around him are vaccinated so should be fine (if he were to catch it) there is no way he could ever have the jab so how can he be discriminated against for this and loose his job over it? Or is it that covid is just a smoke screen for what is really going on as I know of a nurse who has had both jabs and still made to self isolate when surely she should be fine with both jabs or is this the beginning of the jab a month for the next 8years? Biggest human social experiment we have ever known and voluntary aswell you couldn't write this in a book?" If you can’t have the vaccine because an actual issue, especially if it’s covered by the equality, then you won’t. But it’s because of people like that, the rest of us need to get it. 80% is the magic number. And the rest of what you said,. I’ll get to tin foil for your hat. | |||
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"My friend can't take asprin or paracetamol (along with a long list of other stuff) as it will kill him (kill him dead) he can't have the vax for fear of death so why should he loose his job when all around him are vaccinated so should be fine (if he were to catch it) there is no way he could ever have the jab so how can he be discriminated against for this and loose his job over it? Or is it that covid is just a smoke screen for what is really going on as I know of a nurse who has had both jabs and still made to self isolate when surely she should be fine with both jabs or is this the beginning of the jab a month for the next 8years? Biggest human social experiment we have ever known and voluntary aswell you couldn't write this in a book? If you can’t have the vaccine because an actual issue, especially if it’s covered by the equality, then you won’t. But it’s because of people like that, the rest of us need to get it. 80% is the magic number. And the rest of what you said,. I’ll get to tin foil for your hat. " So in that case the friend’s medical history becomes public knowledge? Is that ok? | |||
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"My friend can't take asprin or paracetamol (along with a long list of other stuff) as it will kill him (kill him dead) he can't have the vax for fear of death so why should he loose his job when all around him are vaccinated so should be fine (if he were to catch it) there is no way he could ever have the jab so how can he be discriminated against for this and loose his job over it? Or is it that covid is just a smoke screen for what is really going on as I know of a nurse who has had both jabs and still made to self isolate when surely she should be fine with both jabs or is this the beginning of the jab a month for the next 8years? Biggest human social experiment we have ever known and voluntary aswell you couldn't write this in a book?" Would you not want everyone who can take the vaccination to take it, to help protect your frind and others like him (even if it did need to be every month) not that it's ever been suggested by anyone | |||
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"My friend can't take asprin or paracetamol (along with a long list of other stuff) as it will kill him (kill him dead) he can't have the vax for fear of death so why should he loose his job when all around him are vaccinated so should be fine (if he were to catch it) there is no way he could ever have the jab so how can he be discriminated against for this and loose his job over it? Or is it that covid is just a smoke screen for what is really going on as I know of a nurse who has had both jabs and still made to self isolate when surely she should be fine with both jabs or is this the beginning of the jab a month for the next 8years? Biggest human social experiment we have ever known and voluntary aswell you couldn't write this in a book?" The nurse had to self isolate because she is still infectious to others. People need to understand this... The vaccines stop the recipient from getting seriously ill as a result of contracting Covid. You can still contract it and you can still spread it infecting others. Some evidence emerging (early days) that vaccines might also lower transmission rates. | |||
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"My friend can't take asprin or paracetamol (along with a long list of other stuff) as it will kill him (kill him dead) he can't have the vax for fear of death so why should he loose his job when all around him are vaccinated so should be fine (if he were to catch it) there is no way he could ever have the jab so how can he be discriminated against for this and loose his job over it? Or is it that covid is just a smoke screen for what is really going on as I know of a nurse who has had both jabs and still made to self isolate when surely she should be fine with both jabs or is this the beginning of the jab a month for the next 8years? Biggest human social experiment we have ever known and voluntary aswell you couldn't write this in a book? If you can’t have the vaccine because an actual issue, especially if it’s covered by the equality, then you won’t. But it’s because of people like that, the rest of us need to get it. 80% is the magic number. And the rest of what you said,. I’ll get to tin foil for your hat. So in that case the friend’s medical history becomes public knowledge? Is that ok?" Or "Dr X attests that Joe Bloggs is medically exempt from receiving the vaccine". Further information not necessary. | |||
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" Or is it that covid is just a smoke screen for what is really going on " Aaaand there it is | |||
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"Not remotely comfortable with the idea that any medicine (using that term collectively) should be mandated either explicitly or by stealth. However, I suspect this will become a reality and we may have little choice. If (currently we do not have a good volume of sufficiently robust peer reviewed evidence) it does turn out that the vaccine(s) ALSO reduces transmission as opposed to “only” protecting the recipient from getting seriously ill (they don’t stop you contracting) then I can sympathise and support the “greater good” argument. However, if that evidence is not forthcoming, then where is the moral justification of forcing people to have the vaccine when c.98% will not develop a serious illness anyway? Surely in that case the important thing is that the vulnerable are vaccinated as it is they who are most at risk AND most likely to put pressure in NHS! Even so it raises lots of questions or food for thought inc: 1. Currently the law protects individuals from having to reveal their medical history to an employer. 2. If because of some medical condition someone cannot have the vaccine then that means the employer will now know about a medical condition! 3. Why should anyone who is not customer facing or in a medical/caring profession need to be vaccinated? 4. What if your role is working from home (as per other thread this will be more common)? While it could be seen as inflammatory to say this, it is not many steps removed from wearing a yellow star if you need a Covid Vaccine Passport to get a job or travel abroad. Clearly some people think that is acceptable but to me this smacks of regressing from a century of hard fought civil rights." .. Tbh I share a lot of what you suggest might happen but would disagree it's evenly remotely in the same equivalence as what we know the wearing of the yellow star meant, say that as someone who strongly believes in the individuals right to live as free a life as possible within the societal norms of the time.. Having also visited one of the death camps I think it's pretty safe to say in future we won't be saying there were piles of teeth, spectacles etc as a marker of this time.. There will be no doubt many individuals as stated for whom the systems will need to adapt but I think it's entirely fingers crossed within our grasp, again I am not unaware nor ignorant of how far we still need to progress in relation to disability rights.. | |||
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"My friend can't take asprin or paracetamol (along with a long list of other stuff) as it will kill him (kill him dead) he can't have the vax for fear of death so why should he loose his job when all around him are vaccinated so should be fine (if he were to catch it) there is no way he could ever have the jab so how can he be discriminated against for this and loose his job over it? Or is it that covid is just a smoke screen for what is really going on as I know of a nurse who has had both jabs and still made to self isolate when surely she should be fine with both jabs or is this the beginning of the jab a month for the next 8years? Biggest human social experiment we have ever known and voluntary aswell you couldn't write this in a book? If you can’t have the vaccine because an actual issue, especially if it’s covered by the equality, then you won’t. But it’s because of people like that, the rest of us need to get it. 80% is the magic number. And the rest of what you said,. I’ll get to tin foil for your hat. So in that case the friend’s medical history becomes public knowledge? Is that ok? Or "Dr X attests that Joe Bloggs is medically exempt from receiving the vaccine". Further information not necessary." And even "Dr X attests that Joe Bloggs is medically exempt from receiving the vaccine" is only known to the HR department. Along with all the other private stuff about you that your HR department gets to know but isn't any business of your co-workers. | |||
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" And even "Dr X attests that Joe Bloggs is medically exempt from receiving the vaccine" is only known to the HR department. Along with all the other private stuff about you that your HR department gets to know but isn't any business of your co-workers." Same way I have a letter saying I’m shielding. Doesn’t say why. | |||
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" And even "Dr X attests that Joe Bloggs is medically exempt from receiving the vaccine" is only known to the HR department. Along with all the other private stuff about you that your HR department gets to know but isn't any business of your co-workers. Same way I have a letter saying I’m shielding. Doesn’t say why. " It's almost as if we already have a system for dealing with this stuff and it's not some special new persecution... | |||
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" And even "Dr X attests that Joe Bloggs is medically exempt from receiving the vaccine" is only known to the HR department. Along with all the other private stuff about you that your HR department gets to know but isn't any business of your co-workers. Same way I have a letter saying I’m shielding. Doesn’t say why. It's almost as if we already have a system for dealing with this stuff and it's not some special new persecution..." Is it.. erm.. the equality act 2010? :p | |||
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" And even "Dr X attests that Joe Bloggs is medically exempt from receiving the vaccine" is only known to the HR department. Along with all the other private stuff about you that your HR department gets to know but isn't any business of your co-workers. Same way I have a letter saying I’m shielding. Doesn’t say why. It's almost as if we already have a system for dealing with this stuff and it's not some special new persecution... Is it.. erm.. the equality act 2010? :p" | |||
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" And even "Dr X attests that Joe Bloggs is medically exempt from receiving the vaccine" is only known to the HR department. Along with all the other private stuff about you that your HR department gets to know but isn't any business of your co-workers. Same way I have a letter saying I’m shielding. Doesn’t say why. It's almost as if we already have a system for dealing with this stuff and it's not some special new persecution... Is it.. erm.. the equality act 2010? :p" I don't know about the actual date and words of the current legislation, but the principle of the matter has been around for at least as long as I've ever been working. Every job I've had that is a more than "one man and a dog" outfit, there's been stuff that HR has in their records that is on a need-to-know basis, with most people in the business (usually including at least my immediate superior, and always including my co-workers) not needing to know. | |||
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"To anyone that does genuinely believe there’s a cover up and conspiracy, etc. I have one point to make. You’ve seen our government right? Do you honestly think they’re competent enough to do something like that? " Yeah, but that is all the stage show for the benefit of the general public. The alien controllers use the 5G towers to send signals to the chip in BJ's brain to make him act like a pillock. Behind the scenes though everything is run by the Illuminati from their base inside the Hollow Earth... | |||
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"To anyone that does genuinely believe there’s a cover up and conspiracy, etc. I have one point to make. You’ve seen our government right? Do you honestly think they’re competent enough to do something like that? " It's a question that is never answered. | |||
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"To anyone that does genuinely believe there’s a cover up and conspiracy, etc. I have one point to make. You’ve seen our government right? Do you honestly think they’re competent enough to do something like that? Yeah, but that is all the stage show for the benefit of the general public. The alien controllers use the 5G towers to send signals to the chip in BJ's brain to make him act like a pillock. Behind the scenes though everything is run by the Illuminati from their base inside the Hollow Earth..." How could I have been so wrong *dramatic pose* | |||
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"To anyone that does genuinely believe there’s a cover up and conspiracy, etc. I have one point to make. You’ve seen our government right? Do you honestly think they’re competent enough to do something like that? " The idea that anyone thinks that the British government is competent enough to pull off a conspiracy is terrifying | |||
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"To anyone that does genuinely believe there’s a cover up and conspiracy, etc. I have one point to make. You’ve seen our government right? Do you honestly think they’re competent enough to do something like that? The idea that anyone thinks that the British government is competent enough to pull off a conspiracy is terrifying " I’ve been waiting for a PIP assessment since November | |||
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"The idea that anyone thinks that the British government is competent enough to pull off a conspiracy is terrifying " It's not just the UK government, but every Government in the world (bar Tanzania) and every single medical professional in the world. Bonkers | |||
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"The idea that anyone thinks that the British government is competent enough to pull off a conspiracy is terrifying It's not just the UK government, but every Government in the world (bar Tanzania) and every single medical professional in the world. Bonkers "Yup | |||
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"Are you all wearing brown shirts in here? Everyone should have the jab or not work? So do you all think those not jabbed should walk around with a badge on to let all the perfectly jabbed people see how unclean they are by being unjabbed? Really in this day of age people are being so discriminatory against people refusing a mere jab talk about equality? Please just re-read what you have all just wrote I have never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life?" Neither have I! Really wish people like you would stop with the slightly veiled ' nazi' arguments.. It's childish and very naive frankly .. I have no issue making it very clear where I stand on the vaccine. You, me( anyone) get vaccinated as soon as you / health allows or you stay out of my way after lockdown ends! ..and everyone should feel the same about this situation .. It's not about the old arguments anymore or the poor me I won't have ' one little jab'as it's my right to refuse etc it's about the freedom for everyone to keep each other safe so we can begin to enjoy life again..frankly if anyone refuses they need to be kept away from all the people who grasped the nettle and took the risk.. Seems fair to me! Can't see what is soo hard to understand about this..:/ | |||
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"Not sure how enforcable it would be though, what if you can't have the jab for medical reasons? , it would become a discrimination case ...." I don't accept this as a valid argument anymore... It would be more appropriate to change it to include a condition ' until a vaccine has been developed that someone can take with their current medical condition' That's the next thing to happen and it should stop all the arguments about ' for health reasons' shouldn't it? | |||
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"Not sure how enforcable it would be though, what if you can't have the jab for medical reasons? , it would become a discrimination case .... I don't accept this as a valid argument anymore... It would be more appropriate to change it to include a condition ' until a vaccine has been developed that someone can take with their current medical condition' That's the next thing to happen and it should stop all the arguments about ' for health reasons' shouldn't it? " The. You don’t know how vaccines work. You don’t need to vaccinate 100% https://youtu.be/RfdZTZQvuCo | |||
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"Not remotely comfortable with the idea that any medicine (using that term collectively) should be mandated either explicitly or by stealth. However, I suspect this will become a reality and we may have little choice. If (currently we do not have a good volume of sufficiently robust peer reviewed evidence) it does turn out that the vaccine(s) ALSO reduces transmission as opposed to “only” protecting the recipient from getting seriously ill (they don’t stop you contracting) then I can sympathise and support the “greater good” argument. However, if that evidence is not forthcoming, then where is the moral justification of forcing people to have the vaccine when c.98% will not develop a serious illness anyway? Surely in that case the important thing is that the vulnerable are vaccinated as it is they who are most at risk AND most likely to put pressure in NHS! Even so it raises lots of questions or food for thought inc: 1. Currently the law protects individuals from having to reveal their medical history to an employer. 2. If because of some medical condition someone cannot have the vaccine then that means the employer will now know about a medical condition! 3. Why should anyone who is not customer facing or in a medical/caring profession need to be vaccinated? 4. What if your role is working from home (as per other thread this will be more common)? While it could be seen as inflammatory to say this, it is not many steps removed from wearing a yellow star if you need a Covid Vaccine Passport to get a job or travel abroad. Clearly some people think that is acceptable but to me this smacks of regressing from a century of hard fought civil rights... Tbh I share a lot of what you suggest might happen but would disagree it's evenly remotely in the same equivalence as what we know the wearing of the yellow star meant, say that as someone who strongly believes in the individuals right to live as free a life as possible within the societal norms of the time.. Having also visited one of the death camps I think it's pretty safe to say in future we won't be saying there were piles of teeth, spectacles etc as a marker of this time.. There will be no doubt many individuals as stated for whom the systems will need to adapt but I think it's entirely fingers crossed within our grasp, again I am not unaware nor ignorant of how far we still need to progress in relation to disability rights.. " Which is exactly why I said... “it is not many steps removed from wearing a yellow star” I didn’t say it was the same but it is a step towards. I think the removal of the rights of the individual, which starts with small steps, is a dangerous and slippery slope. | |||
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" “it is not many steps removed from wearing a yellow star” " Perspective. Dead and Free or Alive and working for the common good. Every Law we have is a restriction on one or another so-called perceived Freedom. But we accept them because it leads to the notion of the common good. A Yellow Star and the wearing of one is about as far removed from the Pandemic and Nazi Germany as to be meaningless to both. | |||
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"To anyone that does genuinely believe there’s a cover up and conspiracy, etc. I have one point to make. You’ve seen our government right? Do you honestly think they’re competent enough to do something like that? Yeah, but that is all the stage show for the benefit of the general public. The alien controllers use the 5G towers to send signals to the chip in BJ's brain to make him act like a pillock. Behind the scenes though everything is run by the Illuminati from their base inside the Hollow Earth... How could I have been so wrong *dramatic pose*" It's his hair, easy to hide the antenna.. | |||
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"Are you all wearing brown shirts in here? Everyone should have the jab or not work? So do you all think those not jabbed should walk around with a badge on to let all the perfectly jabbed people see how unclean they are by being unjabbed? Really in this day of age people are being so discriminatory against people refusing a mere jab talk about equality? Please just re-read what you have all just wrote I have never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life?" Love this!! Amen!!!! Sure it should be our OWN decision if to have or not!! | |||
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"Are you all wearing brown shirts in here? Everyone should have the jab or not work? So do you all think those not jabbed should walk around with a badge on to let all the perfectly jabbed people see how unclean they are by being unjabbed? Really in this day of age people are being so discriminatory against people refusing a mere jab talk about equality? Please just re-read what you have all just wrote I have never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life? Love this!! Amen!!!! Sure it should be our OWN decision if to have or not!!" It will remain your decision to have it or not. | |||
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"Which is exactly why I said... “it is not many steps removed from wearing a yellow star” I didn’t say it was the same but it is a step towards. I think the removal of the rights of the individual, which starts with small steps, is a dangerous and slippery slope." Don't be a drama queen. Equating not being allowed into a premises if you're not vaccinated against a virus that has killed millions and destroyed the world's economy, to what the Jews went through under nazi Germany is unbelievably offensive. We need a certain % of the population vaccinated so we can shield the vulnerable and those unable to get the vaccine themselves. If healthy people are choosing to not get the jab because they read or watched some pseudo-science on facebook, authored by some crank with zero medical qualifications, then though titties, don't complain when you're not allowed to mix with people indoors. It's not persecution, it's consequences for being a helmet  | |||
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"Which is exactly why I said... “it is not many steps removed from wearing a yellow star” I didn’t say it was the same but it is a step towards. I think the removal of the rights of the individual, which starts with small steps, is a dangerous and slippery slope. Don't be a drama queen. Equating not being allowed into a premises if you're not vaccinated against a virus that has killed millions and destroyed the world's economy, to what the Jews went through under nazi Germany is unbelievably offensive. We need a certain % of the population vaccinated so we can shield the vulnerable and those unable to get the vaccine themselves. If healthy people are choosing to not get the jab because they read or watched some pseudo-science on facebook, authored by some crank with zero medical qualifications, then though titties, don't complain when you're not allowed to mix with people indoors. It's not persecution, it's consequences for being a helmet "Again I didn’t say it was the same. I said it was a step towards. I said that clear as day. Happy to debate but perhaps avoid personal insults or insinuations as it is against forum rules. Personal liberties are not removed over night in a big bang. They are removed piece by piece. You responded to one element of what I said but removed from the context of the rest. Context matters. | |||
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" “it is not many steps removed from wearing a yellow star” Perspective. Dead and Free or Alive and working for the common good. Every Law we have is a restriction on one or another so-called perceived Freedom. But we accept them because it leads to the notion of the common good. A Yellow Star and the wearing of one is about as far removed from the Pandemic and Nazi Germany as to be meaningless to both. " Except you are commenting on something I didn’t actually say. Not many steps is not the same as actually wearing one is it! The point was clear (when considered in context) that this could be the start of an erosion of civil liberties. That needs careful consideration. | |||
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"If people weren’t idiots, they wouldn’t need to do it. They gave them a chance.. November and December and you know.. people fucked it up. " Agreed | |||
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"Let’s face it anyone that is not smart enough to get vaccinated probably is not smart enough to have a decent job anyway " Wow sweeping statement and quite offensive. | |||
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"Let’s face it anyone that is not smart enough to get vaccinated probably is not smart enough to have a decent job anyway Wow sweeping statement and quite offensive. " Aaron Banks slipped through the net there then. | |||
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" “it is not many steps removed from wearing a yellow star” Perspective. Dead and Free or Alive and working for the common good. Every Law we have is a restriction on one or another so-called perceived Freedom. But we accept them because it leads to the notion of the common good. A Yellow Star and the wearing of one is about as far removed from the Pandemic and Nazi Germany as to be meaningless to both. Except you are commenting on something I didn’t actually say. Not many steps is not the same as actually wearing one is it! The point was clear (when considered in context) that this could be the start of an erosion of civil liberties. That needs careful consideration." Except there very rarily is a context to compare what happened under the Nazis and anything in modern day life. | |||
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"Let’s face it anyone that is not smart enough to get vaccinated probably is not smart enough to have a decent job anyway " Wow what a statement, I cringed when I read this.  | |||
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"and as someone who had family who lived under that rule. And fought. Nah.. not ding on. Online forums and bringing up nazis. It’s a proven mathematical formula. You’ve just lost the Argument. I’m off. Can’t debate or have a conversation with idiots. " I had family who were rounded up and exterminated and fully agree. It's demeaning to the people who died in horrific ways to make such chalk/cheese comparisons. Does my head in | |||
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"Are you all wearing brown shirts in here? Everyone should have the jab or not work? So do you all think those not jabbed should walk around with a badge on to let all the perfectly jabbed people see how unclean they are by being unjabbed? Really in this day of age people are being so discriminatory against people refusing a mere jab talk about equality? Please just re-read what you have all just wrote I have never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life? Love this!! Amen!!!! Sure it should be our OWN decision if to have or not!!" Okay.. But then I would strongly argue it's also OUR decision to decide whether you are safe to be able to mix with other people again!so given most of the population have agreed to put any worries or principles to one side just for this situation.. It's going to be very hard for anyone to accept someone point blank refused to join in. However, now feels they have a right to return to society as normal Frankly.. They don't and shouldn't Works both ways.. | |||
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"Are you all wearing brown shirts in here? Everyone should have the jab or not work? So do you all think those not jabbed should walk around with a badge on to let all the perfectly jabbed people see how unclean they are by being unjabbed? Really in this day of age people are being so discriminatory against people refusing a mere jab talk about equality? Please just re-read what you have all just wrote I have never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life? Love this!! Amen!!!! Sure it should be our OWN decision if to have or not!! Okay.. But then I would strongly argue it's also OUR decision to decide whether you are safe to be able to mix with other people again!so given most of the population have agreed to put any worries or principles to one side just for this situation.. It's going to be very hard for anyone to accept someone point blank refused to join in. However, now feels they have a right to return to society as normal Frankly.. They don't and shouldn't Works both ways.. " No, it’s not your choice, because you would do exactly that. | |||
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"This brings a whole new world of laws and infringements on peoples rights. Mandatory vaccine or lose your job, but ok to kill people by through smoking, driving cars to pollute the air. or the uk selling bombs to Saudi to blow up civilians in Yemen. " But that isn't what is being suggested at all. | |||
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"This brings a whole new world of laws and infringements on peoples rights. Mandatory vaccine or lose your job, but ok to kill people by through smoking, driving cars to pollute the air. or the uk selling bombs to Saudi to blow up civilians in Yemen. " A company can tell you to stop smoking or lose your job. | |||
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"Not sure how enforcable it would be though, what if you can't have the jab for medical reasons? , it would become a discrimination case ...." Its totally enforceable. There are currently roles that you have to have had the hepatitis vaccine and that's been the case for years. If someone is medically exempt they have show proof in the same way someone will have to show proof of vaccination. | |||
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"Not sure how enforcable it would be though, what if you can't have the jab for medical reasons? , it would become a discrimination case .... Its totally enforceable. There are currently roles that you have to have had the hepatitis vaccine and that's been the case for years. If someone is medically exempt they have show proof in the same way someone will have to show proof of vaccination. " It’s not covered by the equality act or the right to religion and belief in the human rights act. A choice or opinion doesn’t count. | |||
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"Are you all wearing brown shirts in here? Everyone should have the jab or not work? So do you all think those not jabbed should walk around with a badge on to let all the perfectly jabbed people see how unclean they are by being unjabbed? Really in this day of age people are being so discriminatory against people refusing a mere jab talk about equality? Please just re-read what you have all just wrote I have never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life? Love this!! Amen!!!! Sure it should be our OWN decision if to have or not!! It will remain your decision to have it or not. " But I'm sure that's not really giving you the rights to make a decision as its either have it or lose your job.. don't think that's very fair. I'm not against it or trying to say anything about anyone who wants to have it,but I don't wish to have it the same way I don't wish to have the flu jab,yet I can lose my job if I choose not to have the vaccine. I just think its taking away our basic human rights. | |||
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"My friend can't take asprin or paracetamol (along with a long list of other stuff) as it will kill him (kill him dead) he can't have the vax for fear of death so why should he loose his job when all around him are vaccinated so should be fine (if he were to catch it) there is no way he could ever have the jab so how can he be discriminated against for this and loose his job over it? Or is it that covid is just a smoke screen for what is really going on as I know of a nurse who has had both jabs and still made to self isolate when surely she should be fine with both jabs or is this the beginning of the jab a month for the next 8years? Biggest human social experiment we have ever known and voluntary aswell you couldn't write this in a book? If you can’t have the vaccine because an actual issue, especially if it’s covered by the equality, then you won’t. But it’s because of people like that, the rest of us need to get it. 80% is the magic number. And the rest of what you said,. I’ll get to tin foil for your hat. So in that case the friend’s medical history becomes public knowledge? Is that ok?" No it doesn't. Only the HR department would know same as any disclosure of medical information to an employer. There are many medical conditions that you have a requirement to disclose to an employer. | |||
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"Are you all wearing brown shirts in here? Everyone should have the jab or not work? So do you all think those not jabbed should walk around with a badge on to let all the perfectly jabbed people see how unclean they are by being unjabbed? Really in this day of age people are being so discriminatory against people refusing a mere jab talk about equality? Please just re-read what you have all just wrote I have never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life? Love this!! Amen!!!! Sure it should be our OWN decision if to have or not!! It will remain your decision to have it or not. But I'm sure that's not really giving you the rights to make a decision as its either have it or lose your job.. don't think that's very fair. I'm not against it or trying to say anything about anyone who wants to have it,but I don't wish to have it the same way I don't wish to have the flu jab,yet I can lose my job if I choose not to have the vaccine. I just think its taking away our basic human rights." And if you have a legitimate reason to not have it fine. Otherwise, yeah, lose your job. If that’s the pressure they have to put on people who just don’t want it for no valid reason. | |||
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" No it doesn't. Only the HR department would know same as any disclosure of medical information to an employer. There are many medical conditions that you have a requirement to disclose to an employer. " Or in my case, my occupational health know all the details but my HR and management don’t know anything. | |||
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"Are you all wearing brown shirts in here? Everyone should have the jab or not work? So do you all think those not jabbed should walk around with a badge on to let all the perfectly jabbed people see how unclean they are by being unjabbed? Really in this day of age people are being so discriminatory against people refusing a mere jab talk about equality? Please just re-read what you have all just wrote I have never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life? Love this!! Amen!!!! Sure it should be our OWN decision if to have or not!! Okay.. But then I would strongly argue it's also OUR decision to decide whether you are safe to be able to mix with other people again!so given most of the population have agreed to put any worries or principles to one side just for this situation.. It's going to be very hard for anyone to accept someone point blank refused to join in. However, now feels they have a right to return to society as normal Frankly.. They don't and shouldn't Works both ways.. " So basically we are not fit to remain in society because we don't have the same opinion? | |||
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"This brings a whole new world of laws and infringements on peoples rights. Mandatory vaccine or lose your job, but ok to kill people by through smoking, driving cars to pollute the air. or the uk selling bombs to Saudi to blow up civilians in Yemen. A company can tell you to stop smoking or lose your job. " Surely this isn't true?? They can tell you not to smoke in the workplace but surely they cannot tell you to stop smoking full stop or you lose your job? Thats just daft? Its like saying you cannot drink or eat certain foods because your work says so!! | |||
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"and as someone who had family who lived under that rule. And fought. Nah.. not ding on. Online forums and bringing up nazis. It’s a proven mathematical formula. You’ve just lost the Argument. I’m off. Can’t debate or have a conversation with idiots. I had family who were rounded up and exterminated and fully agree. It's demeaning to the people who died in horrific ways to make such chalk/cheese comparisons. Does my head in "Ok I wasn’t originally going to say this as it will come across as defensive but... 1. If I you and anyone else was genuinely offended then I apologise. It was not my intent. 2. As someone whose maternal grandparents were jewish and had extended family 3 generations back who died at the hands of the Nazis I feel it is absolutely right to raise a warning about how extreme persecution starts from much smaller and seemingly innocuous things. 3. At no point did I make a direct comparison regardless of what subsequent posters tried to imply. The clue being in the use of the word “step”. Most importantly though I am a big boy and happy to apologise if I did unintentionally cause offence. | |||
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"Are you all wearing brown shirts in here? Everyone should have the jab or not work? So do you all think those not jabbed should walk around with a badge on to let all the perfectly jabbed people see how unclean they are by being unjabbed? Really in this day of age people are being so discriminatory against people refusing a mere jab talk about equality? Please just re-read what you have all just wrote I have never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life? Love this!! Amen!!!! Sure it should be our OWN decision if to have or not!! It will remain your decision to have it or not. But I'm sure that's not really giving you the rights to make a decision as its either have it or lose your job.. don't think that's very fair. I'm not against it or trying to say anything about anyone who wants to have it,but I don't wish to have it the same way I don't wish to have the flu jab,yet I can lose my job if I choose not to have the vaccine. I just think its taking away our basic human rights. And if you have a legitimate reason to not have it fine. Otherwise, yeah, lose your job. If that’s the pressure they have to put on people who just don’t want it for no valid reason. " But thats forcing people to have it. That could do some damage to people. And in my opinion it is taking away our freedom of choice!! What next? | |||
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"This brings a whole new world of laws and infringements on peoples rights. Mandatory vaccine or lose your job, but ok to kill people by through smoking, driving cars to pollute the air. or the uk selling bombs to Saudi to blow up civilians in Yemen. A company can tell you to stop smoking or lose your job. Surely this isn't true?? They can tell you not to smoke in the workplace but surely they cannot tell you to stop smoking full stop or you lose your job? Thats just daft? Its like saying you cannot drink or eat certain foods because your work says so!! " You are right. They can tell you not to smoke in working hours even on breaks but most don't. Infact iv only ever heard of one company that did this. | |||
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"Are you all wearing brown shirts in here? Everyone should have the jab or not work? So do you all think those not jabbed should walk around with a badge on to let all the perfectly jabbed people see how unclean they are by being unjabbed? Really in this day of age people are being so discriminatory against people refusing a mere jab talk about equality? Please just re-read what you have all just wrote I have never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life? Love this!! Amen!!!! Sure it should be our OWN decision if to have or not!! Okay.. But then I would strongly argue it's also OUR decision to decide whether you are safe to be able to mix with other people again!so given most of the population have agreed to put any worries or principles to one side just for this situation.. It's going to be very hard for anyone to accept someone point blank refused to join in. However, now feels they have a right to return to society as normal Frankly.. They don't and shouldn't Works both ways.. So basically we are not fit to remain in society because we don't have the same opinion? " No. You may not be able to do all things in society if you don't do your bit to mitigate your risk to others. That's not saying you don't belong in society. Your choices have consequences. | |||
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" “it is not many steps removed from wearing a yellow star” Perspective. Dead and Free or Alive and working for the common good. Every Law we have is a restriction on one or another so-called perceived Freedom. But we accept them because it leads to the notion of the common good. A Yellow Star and the wearing of one is about as far removed from the Pandemic and Nazi Germany as to be meaningless to both. Except you are commenting on something I didn’t actually say. Not many steps is not the same as actually wearing one is it! The point was clear (when considered in context) that this could be the start of an erosion of civil liberties. That needs careful consideration. Except there very rarily is a context to compare what happened under the Nazis and anything in modern day life. " See my previous post. No direct comparison was made. Clue being word “step”. | |||
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"If company policy is no smoking. And you’re a smoker. Yep. Smoking is not covered " No they can't. A case went to court about this several years ago and the judge ruled it was unlawful to tell employees what they can do in their private lives as long as it was within the law and not affecting their work in anyway. | |||
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"If company policy is no smoking. And you’re a smoker. Yep. Smoking is not covered " So not to smoke in or near the workplace, not at home or anywhere else. They can't test to see if your smoking or not.. | |||
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"Are you all wearing brown shirts in here? Everyone should have the jab or not work? So do you all think those not jabbed should walk around with a badge on to let all the perfectly jabbed people see how unclean they are by being unjabbed? Really in this day of age people are being so discriminatory against people refusing a mere jab talk about equality? Please just re-read what you have all just wrote I have never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life? Love this!! Amen!!!! Sure it should be our OWN decision if to have or not!! Okay.. But then I would strongly argue it's also OUR decision to decide whether you are safe to be able to mix with other people again!so given most of the population have agreed to put any worries or principles to one side just for this situation.. It's going to be very hard for anyone to accept someone point blank refused to join in. However, now feels they have a right to return to society as normal Frankly.. They don't and shouldn't Works both ways.. So basically we are not fit to remain in society because we don't have the same opinion? No. You may not be able to do all things in society if you don't do your bit to mitigate your risk to others. That's not saying you don't belong in society. Your choices have consequences." So its "comply or go away" wow...judgement much.. I don't want the vaccine and won't be having it... but I don't and won't judge others if they do have it and tell them that they don't deserve to be a member of society because they chose to have the vaccine!! Thats just silly!! Wow!!! No freedom of speech! No freedom of choice! Wow just wow!! | |||
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"And in my opinion it is taking away our freedom of choice!! What next? " And why is your choice not to? Because I don’t want to is not a valid answer. That’s like a kid not being bought a kinder egg in tesco and having a body’s fit on the floor. I mean.. you had the magma carta and the civil war and dozens of wars for that choice. To give you that freedom. Because I’m clinically high risk. Shielding until end of March, then someone like you might get me sick? So.. one good reason.. And if it’s medical.. fine, we stop this now.. but you’re arguing the wrong point if so. | |||
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"Are you all wearing brown shirts in here? Everyone should have the jab or not work? So do you all think those not jabbed should walk around with a badge on to let all the perfectly jabbed people see how unclean they are by being unjabbed? Really in this day of age people are being so discriminatory against people refusing a mere jab talk about equality? Please just re-read what you have all just wrote I have never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life? Love this!! Amen!!!! Sure it should be our OWN decision if to have or not!! Okay.. But then I would strongly argue it's also OUR decision to decide whether you are safe to be able to mix with other people again!so given most of the population have agreed to put any worries or principles to one side just for this situation.. It's going to be very hard for anyone to accept someone point blank refused to join in. However, now feels they have a right to return to society as normal Frankly.. They don't and shouldn't Works both ways.. So basically we are not fit to remain in society because we don't have the same opinion? No. You may not be able to do all things in society if you don't do your bit to mitigate your risk to others. That's not saying you don't belong in society. Your choices have consequences. So its "comply or go away" wow...judgement much.. I don't want the vaccine and won't be having it... but I don't and won't judge others if they do have it and tell them that they don't deserve to be a member of society because they chose to have the vaccine!! Thats just silly!! Wow!!! No freedom of speech! No freedom of choice! Wow just wow!!" If you read it again you will see nobody said you don't deserve a place in society and I think you will find there are consequences to our choices. There is a difference between somebody not being able to do something and choosing not to and if you choose not to comply with what employer is asking you regardless of what they are asking they are not going to want to there. If a country says you cannot come in if you have chosen not to have the vaccine then of course you have a choice and that is have the vaccine or don't go. | |||
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"and as someone who had family who lived under that rule. And fought. Nah.. not ding on. Online forums and bringing up nazis. It’s a proven mathematical formula. You’ve just lost the Argument. I’m off. Can’t debate or have a conversation with idiots. I had family who were rounded up and exterminated and fully agree. It's demeaning to the people who died in horrific ways to make such chalk/cheese comparisons. Does my head in
Ok I wasn’t originally going to say this as it will come across as defensive but...
1. If I you and anyone else was genuinely offended then I apologise. It was not my intent.
2. As someone whose maternal grandparents were jewish and had extended family 3 generations back who died at the hands of the Nazis I feel it is absolutely right to raise a warning about how extreme persecution starts from much smaller and seemingly innocuous things.
3. At no point did I make a direct comparison regardless of what subsequent posters tried to imply. The clue being in the use of the word “step”.
Most importantly though I am a big boy and happy to apologise if I did unintentionally cause offence."Thank you. I am not personally offended but I do find the quick comparisons to the Shoah/Holocaust/treatment of Jews in the Nazi era to be highly distasteful, yes. | |||
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"This brings a whole new world of laws and infringements on peoples rights. Mandatory vaccine or lose your job, but ok to kill people by through smoking, driving cars to pollute the air. or the uk selling bombs to Saudi to blow up civilians in Yemen. A company can tell you to stop smoking or lose your job. Surely this isn't true?? They can tell you not to smoke in the workplace but surely they cannot tell you to stop smoking full stop or you lose your job? Thats just daft? Its like saying you cannot drink or eat certain foods because your work says so!! You are right. They can tell you not to smoke in working hours even on breaks but most don't. Infact iv only ever heard of one company that did this. " Thought so.. they could tell you not to smoke in or around workplace,but your private life is just that!! | |||
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"These are becoming my favourite threads. I particularly like it when the kind, caring posters start advocating for forced injections for anyone who refuses to have theirs. " Who is advocating for forced Injections because I can't see anyone. People are pointing out that employers which is what this thread is about are well within their rights to say they will not employ someone who refuses the vaccine Of course people have a choice and all choices have consequences so how is that being unkind? | |||
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"These are becoming my favourite threads. I particularly like it when the kind, caring posters start advocating for forced injections for anyone who refuses to have theirs. " Can you show where forced injections have been advocated, please? | |||
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"Are you all wearing brown shirts in here? Everyone should have the jab or not work? So do you all think those not jabbed should walk around with a badge on to let all the perfectly jabbed people see how unclean they are by being unjabbed? Really in this day of age people are being so discriminatory against people refusing a mere jab talk about equality? Please just re-read what you have all just wrote I have never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life? Love this!! Amen!!!! Sure it should be our OWN decision if to have or not!! Okay.. But then I would strongly argue it's also OUR decision to decide whether you are safe to be able to mix with other people again!so given most of the population have agreed to put any worries or principles to one side just for this situation.. It's going to be very hard for anyone to accept someone point blank refused to join in. However, now feels they have a right to return to society as normal Frankly.. They don't and shouldn't Works both ways.. So basically we are not fit to remain in society because we don't have the same opinion? No. You may not be able to do all things in society if you don't do your bit to mitigate your risk to others. That's not saying you don't belong in society. Your choices have consequences. So its "comply or go away" wow...judgement much.. I don't want the vaccine and won't be having it... but I don't and won't judge others if they do have it and tell them that they don't deserve to be a member of society because they chose to have the vaccine!! Thats just silly!! Wow!!! No freedom of speech! No freedom of choice! Wow just wow!!" The only person saying that is you. It is your choice whether you have the vaccine, and no one is stopping you from expressing your view. However, it may be possible for employers or establishments to prioritise public health and those who can't be vaccinated over individual choice. If that is so, then you will have to weigh that up. And your choice will still be yours, and you may still talk about it. | |||
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"This brings a whole new world of laws and infringements on peoples rights. Mandatory vaccine or lose your job, but ok to kill people by through smoking, driving cars to pollute the air. or the uk selling bombs to Saudi to blow up civilians in Yemen. A company can tell you to stop smoking or lose your job. Surely this isn't true?? They can tell you not to smoke in the workplace but surely they cannot tell you to stop smoking full stop or you lose your job? Thats just daft? Its like saying you cannot drink or eat certain foods because your work says so!! You are right. They can tell you not to smoke in working hours even on breaks but most don't. Infact iv only ever heard of one company that did this. Thought so.. they could tell you not to smoke in or around workplace,but your private life is just that!! " Some contracts do have morality clauses however they would struggle to prove that somebody having a cigarette at gome is bringing the company into disrepute unless you work for anti smoking charity. | |||
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"These are becoming my favourite threads. I particularly like it when the kind, caring posters start advocating for forced injections for anyone who refuses to have theirs. Who is advocating for forced Injections because I can't see anyone. People are pointing out that employers which is what this thread is about are well within their rights to say they will not employ someone who refuses the vaccine Of course people have a choice and all choices have consequences so how is that being unkind?" Heck, all I'm saying is that it's within the realms of possibility that the norm might shift, and if it does people will have to contend with that. | |||
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"These are becoming my favourite threads. I particularly like it when the kind, caring posters start advocating for forced injections for anyone who refuses to have theirs. Can you show where forced injections have been advocated, please?" Hasn’t happened on this thread...yet. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Are you all wearing brown shirts in here? Everyone should have the jab or not work? So do you all think those not jabbed should walk around with a badge on to let all the perfectly jabbed people see how unclean they are by being unjabbed? Really in this day of age people are being so discriminatory against people refusing a mere jab talk about equality? Please just re-read what you have all just wrote I have never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life? Love this!! Amen!!!! Sure it should be our OWN decision if to have or not!! Okay.. But then I would strongly argue it's also OUR decision to decide whether you are safe to be able to mix with other people again!so given most of the population have agreed to put any worries or principles to one side just for this situation.. It's going to be very hard for anyone to accept someone point blank refused to join in. However, now feels they have a right to return to society as normal Frankly.. They don't and shouldn't Works both ways.. So basically we are not fit to remain in society because we don't have the same opinion? No. You may not be able to do all things in society if you don't do your bit to mitigate your risk to others. That's not saying you don't belong in society. Your choices have consequences. So its "comply or go away" wow...judgement much.. I don't want the vaccine and won't be having it... but I don't and won't judge others if they do have it and tell them that they don't deserve to be a member of society because they chose to have the vaccine!! Thats just silly!! Wow!!! No freedom of speech! No freedom of choice! Wow just wow!! If you read it again you will see nobody said you don't deserve a place in society and I think you will find there are consequences to our choices. There is a difference between somebody not being able to do something and choosing not to and if you choose not to comply with what employer is asking you regardless of what they are asking they are not going to want to there. If a country says you cannot come in if you have chosen not to have the vaccine then of course you have a choice and that is have the vaccine or don't go." And if I'm already in the country? Where do I go?? Do I get kicked out of the country because I should be allowed to "mix" with society over a difference in opinion? I have been and employer and would ASK my staff to do something,I would NOT FORCE them to do it or get sacked? Thats just not right (in my personal opinion) but I wouldn't sack them if they decided to get the vaccine against my judgement!!! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"These are becoming my favourite threads. I particularly like it when the kind, caring posters start advocating for forced injections for anyone who refuses to have theirs. Can you show where forced injections have been advocated, please? Hasn’t happened on this thread...yet." Oh I said it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Are you all wearing brown shirts in here? Everyone should have the jab or not work? So do you all think those not jabbed should walk around with a badge on to let all the perfectly jabbed people see how unclean they are by being unjabbed? Really in this day of age people are being so discriminatory against people refusing a mere jab talk about equality? Please just re-read what you have all just wrote I have never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life? Love this!! Amen!!!! Sure it should be our OWN decision if to have or not!! Okay.. But then I would strongly argue it's also OUR decision to decide whether you are safe to be able to mix with other people again!so given most of the population have agreed to put any worries or principles to one side just for this situation.. It's going to be very hard for anyone to accept someone point blank refused to join in. However, now feels they have a right to return to society as normal Frankly.. They don't and shouldn't Works both ways.. So basically we are not fit to remain in society because we don't have the same opinion? No. You may not be able to do all things in society if you don't do your bit to mitigate your risk to others. That's not saying you don't belong in society. Your choices have consequences. So its "comply or go away" wow...judgement much.. I don't want the vaccine and won't be having it... but I don't and won't judge others if they do have it and tell them that they don't deserve to be a member of society because they chose to have the vaccine!! Thats just silly!! Wow!!! No freedom of speech! No freedom of choice! Wow just wow!! If you read it again you will see nobody said you don't deserve a place in society and I think you will find there are consequences to our choices. There is a difference between somebody not being able to do something and choosing not to and if you choose not to comply with what employer is asking you regardless of what they are asking they are not going to want to there. If a country says you cannot come in if you have chosen not to have the vaccine then of course you have a choice and that is have the vaccine or don't go. And if I'm already in the country? Where do I go?? Do I get kicked out of the country because I should be allowed to "mix" with society over a difference in opinion? I have been and employer and would ASK my staff to do something,I would NOT FORCE them to do it or get sacked? Thats just not right (in my personal opinion) but I wouldn't sack them if they decided to get the vaccine against my judgement!!! " No one is going to kick you out with the country but Greece for example have already said that you will have to provide proof a vaccine or isolate for 14 days when arriving in the country. Yes you can choose not to have the vaccine but a country can refuse to allow you in or an employer can refuse to employ you it works both ways. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"These are becoming my favourite threads. I particularly like it when the kind, caring posters start advocating for forced injections for anyone who refuses to have theirs. Can you show where forced injections have been advocated, please? Hasn’t happened on this thread...yet." It's good to know that my eyes aren't deceiving me... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Are you all wearing brown shirts in here? Everyone should have the jab or not work? So do you all think those not jabbed should walk around with a badge on to let all the perfectly jabbed people see how unclean they are by being unjabbed? Really in this day of age people are being so discriminatory against people refusing a mere jab talk about equality? Please just re-read what you have all just wrote I have never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life?" I wholeheartedly agree with you | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" And if I'm already in the country? Where do I go?? Do I get kicked out of the country because I should be allowed to "mix" with society over a difference in opinion? I have been and employer and would ASK my staff to do something,I would NOT FORCE them to do it or get sacked? Thats just not right (in my personal opinion) but I wouldn't sack them if they decided to get the vaccine against my judgement!!! " Vaccine mandates certainly exist. As in government mandates, not just private establishments may require them. If I read the headline correctly a couple of months ago, Brazil has said that local authorities could mandate vaccines but not hold someone down to force them. If they didn't they'd be fined, I presume, I didn't look into it in detail. | |||
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" It will remain your decision to have it or not. But I'm sure that's not really giving you the rights to make a decision as its either have it or lose your job.. don't think that's very fair. " But it doesn't say that or even suggest that - it says that employers may choose to contract NEW employees under a vax agreement to be employed in some roles such as face-to-face. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" It will remain your decision to have it or not. But I'm sure that's not really giving you the rights to make a decision as its either have it or lose your job.. don't think that's very fair. But it doesn't say that or even suggest that - it says that employers may choose to contract NEW employees under a vax agreement to be employed in some roles such as face-to-face. " You would be unable to perform your job, as your contract requires you to. Boom. | |||
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"and as someone who had family who lived under that rule. And fought. Nah.. not ding on. Online forums and bringing up nazis. It’s a proven mathematical formula. You’ve just lost the Argument. I’m off. Can’t debate or have a conversation with idiots. I had family who were rounded up and exterminated and fully agree. It's demeaning to the people who died in horrific ways to make such chalk/cheese comparisons. Does my head in
Ok I wasn’t originally going to say this as it will come across as defensive but...
1. If I you and anyone else was genuinely offended then I apologise. It was not my intent.
2. As someone whose maternal grandparents were jewish and had extended family 3 generations back who died at the hands of the Nazis I feel it is absolutely right to raise a warning about how extreme persecution starts from much smaller and seemingly innocuous things.
3. At no point did I make a direct comparison regardless of what subsequent posters tried to imply. The clue being in the use of the word “step”.
Most importantly though I am a big boy and happy to apologise if I did unintentionally cause offence.
Thank you. I am not personally offended but I do find the quick comparisons to the Shoah/Holocaust/treatment of Jews in the Nazi era to be highly distasteful, yes."And I agree direct comparisons are indeed distasteful but in my case no such direct comparison was made. My point stands that the erosion of civil liberties starts with small and seemingly innocuous things. The ultimate destination is unthinkable but should not be forgotten. And before anyone jumps on me again, nobody is saying things would ever reach the extreme end of the spectrum but there are steps along that journey and it would be interesting where people draw that line? | |||
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" Can you show where forced injections have been advocated, please?" Force can be indirect, team A has so team B can't/should. | |||
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" It will remain your decision to have it or not. But I'm sure that's not really giving you the rights to make a decision as its either have it or lose your job.. don't think that's very fair. But it doesn't say that or even suggest that - it says that employers may choose to contract NEW employees under a vax agreement to be employed in some roles such as face-to-face. You would be unable to perform your job, as your contract requires you to. Boom. " It cannot be enforced under current contracts (that do not already contain a vax agreement) - it as been said clearly that employers would have to test that in a court - current legal opinion is that it would fail. New contracts ONLY. | |||
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" Can you show where forced injections have been advocated, please? Force can be indirect, team A has so team B can't/should." No.. I literally said if I was allowed to I would force them and do it myself. My post disappeared though. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" It will remain your decision to have it or not. But I'm sure that's not really giving you the rights to make a decision as its either have it or lose your job.. don't think that's very fair. But it doesn't say that or even suggest that - it says that employers may choose to contract NEW employees under a vax agreement to be employed in some roles such as face-to-face. You would be unable to perform your job, as your contract requires you to. Boom. It cannot be enforced under current contracts (that do not already contain a vax agreement) - it as been said clearly that employers would have to test that in a court - current legal opinion is that it would fail. New contracts ONLY. " So they just update your contract. either accept or they’ll terminate. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"and as someone who had family who lived under that rule. And fought. Nah.. not ding on. Online forums and bringing up nazis. It’s a proven mathematical formula. You’ve just lost the Argument. I’m off. Can’t debate or have a conversation with idiots. I had family who were rounded up and exterminated and fully agree. It's demeaning to the people who died in horrific ways to make such chalk/cheese comparisons. Does my head in
Ok I wasn’t originally going to say this as it will come across as defensive but...
1. If I you and anyone else was genuinely offended then I apologise. It was not my intent.
2. As someone whose maternal grandparents were jewish and had extended family 3 generations back who died at the hands of the Nazis I feel it is absolutely right to raise a warning about how extreme persecution starts from much smaller and seemingly innocuous things.
3. At no point did I make a direct comparison regardless of what subsequent posters tried to imply. The clue being in the use of the word “step”.
Most importantly though I am a big boy and happy to apologise if I did unintentionally cause offence.
Thank you. I am not personally offended but I do find the quick comparisons to the Shoah/Holocaust/treatment of Jews in the Nazi era to be highly distasteful, yes.
And I agree direct comparisons are indeed distasteful but in my case no such direct comparison was made.
My point stands that the erosion of civil liberties starts with small and seemingly innocuous things. The ultimate destination is unthinkable but should not be forgotten. And before anyone jumps on me again, nobody is saying things would ever reach the extreme end of the spectrum but there are steps along that journey and it would be interesting where people draw that line?"Vaccine mandates exist in many other countries. In the USA, vaccines are required to attend public school. In the Middle East, the same. I believe it to be similar in many other countries. Mandate doesn't mean you'll be pinned down and forcibly injected, but that choosing not to be vaccinated per national schedules will mean you/your children struggle to access certain services. There remain exemptions in all vaccine mandate countries for those who genuinely cannot be vaccinated and it would be unlawful due to the Equality Act to refuse employment of a person medically unable to be vaccinated. The suggestion is employers will require all those eligible to be vaccinated to access employment. | |||
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"wait for 5 years and there will be an apology to those who took the jab. A jab developed over how many month period." I won't hold my breath. The jabs have passed the vast majority of usual requirements and we're well past the point where any expert worries about safety. | |||
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"Are you all wearing brown shirts in here? Everyone should have the jab or not work? So do you all think those not jabbed should walk around with a badge on to let all the perfectly jabbed people see how unclean they are by being unjabbed? Really in this day of age people are being so discriminatory against people refusing a mere jab talk about equality? Please just re-read what you have all just wrote I have never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life? Love this!! Amen!!!! Sure it should be our OWN decision if to have or not!! Okay.. But then I would strongly argue it's also OUR decision to decide whether you are safe to be able to mix with other people again!so given most of the population have agreed to put any worries or principles to one side just for this situation.. It's going to be very hard for anyone to accept someone point blank refused to join in. However, now feels they have a right to return to society as normal Frankly.. They don't and shouldn't Works both ways.. So basically we are not fit to remain in society because we don't have the same opinion? No. You may not be able to do all things in society if you don't do your bit to mitigate your risk to others. That's not saying you don't belong in society. Your choices have consequences. So its "comply or go away" wow...judgement much.. I don't want the vaccine and won't be having it... but I don't and won't judge others if they do have it and tell them that they don't deserve to be a member of society because they chose to have the vaccine!! Thats just silly!! Wow!!! No freedom of speech! No freedom of choice! Wow just wow!! If you read it again you will see nobody said you don't deserve a place in society and I think you will find there are consequences to our choices. There is a difference between somebody not being able to do something and choosing not to and if you choose not to comply with what employer is asking you regardless of what they are asking they are not going to want to there. If a country says you cannot come in if you have chosen not to have the vaccine then of course you have a choice and that is have the vaccine or don't go. And if I'm already in the country? Where do I go?? Do I get kicked out of the country because I should be allowed to "mix" with society over a difference in opinion? I have been and employer and would ASK my staff to do something,I would NOT FORCE them to do it or get sacked? Thats just not right (in my personal opinion) but I wouldn't sack them if they decided to get the vaccine against my judgement!!! No one is going to kick you out with the country but Greece for example have already said that you will have to provide proof a vaccine or isolate for 14 days when arriving in the country. Yes you can choose not to have the vaccine but a country can refuse to allow you in or an employer can refuse to employ you it works both ways." Yes I get that with the country and employers,but just because my opinion is different to others does not mean I should be judged and told I shouldn't be allowed to mix with society.. Its my opinion and thats all.. And I'm not anti-vaccines as all my children have had all their vaccines but I just don't want the vaccine the same way as I don't want the flu jab.. and not because of any medical reasons. Single parents get a lot of heat if they don't work for a living and get called "benefit scroungers and such" Yet when them single parents WANT to work but personally don't want the vaccine,then they can get the sack? I think its just not on. Even though I understand what everyone's saying,I'm just not judging as some are! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"and as someone who had family who lived under that rule. And fought. Nah.. not ding on. Online forums and bringing up nazis. It’s a proven mathematical formula. You’ve just lost the Argument. I’m off. Can’t debate or have a conversation with idiots. I had family who were rounded up and exterminated and fully agree. It's demeaning to the people who died in horrific ways to make such chalk/cheese comparisons. Does my head in
Ok I wasn’t originally going to say this as it will come across as defensive but...
1. If I you and anyone else was genuinely offended then I apologise. It was not my intent.
2. As someone whose maternal grandparents were jewish and had extended family 3 generations back who died at the hands of the Nazis I feel it is absolutely right to raise a warning about how extreme persecution starts from much smaller and seemingly innocuous things.
3. At no point did I make a direct comparison regardless of what subsequent posters tried to imply. The clue being in the use of the word “step”.
Most importantly though I am a big boy and happy to apologise if I did unintentionally cause offence.
Thank you. I am not personally offended but I do find the quick comparisons to the Shoah/Holocaust/treatment of Jews in the Nazi era to be highly distasteful, yes.
And I agree direct comparisons are indeed distasteful but in my case no such direct comparison was made.
My point stands that the erosion of civil liberties starts with small and seemingly innocuous things. The ultimate destination is unthinkable but should not be forgotten. And before anyone jumps on me again, nobody is saying things would ever reach the extreme end of the spectrum but there are steps along that journey and it would be interesting where people draw that line?
Vaccine mandates exist in many other countries. In the USA, vaccines are required to attend public school. In the Middle East, the same. I believe it to be similar in many other countries. Mandate doesn't mean you'll be pinned down and forcibly injected, but that choosing not to be vaccinated per national schedules will mean you/your children struggle to access certain services.
There remain exemptions in all vaccine mandate countries for those who genuinely cannot be vaccinated and it would be unlawful due to the Equality Act to refuse employment of a person medically unable to be vaccinated. The suggestion is employers will require all those eligible to be vaccinated to access employment.
"My parents certainly had to get me fully vaccinated before I could attend school (Australia). | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" It will remain your decision to have it or not. But I'm sure that's not really giving you the rights to make a decision as its either have it or lose your job.. don't think that's very fair. But it doesn't say that or even suggest that - it says that employers may choose to contract NEW employees under a vax agreement to be employed in some roles such as face-to-face. You would be unable to perform your job, as your contract requires you to. Boom. It cannot be enforced under current contracts (that do not already contain a vax agreement) - it as been said clearly that employers would have to test that in a court - current legal opinion is that it would fail. New contracts ONLY. So they just update your contract. either accept or they’ll terminate. " And a court case would most likely follow. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Are you all wearing brown shirts in here? Everyone should have the jab or not work? So do you all think those not jabbed should walk around with a badge on to let all the perfectly jabbed people see how unclean they are by being unjabbed? Really in this day of age people are being so discriminatory against people refusing a mere jab talk about equality? Please just re-read what you have all just wrote I have never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life? Love this!! Amen!!!! Sure it should be our OWN decision if to have or not!! Okay.. But then I would strongly argue it's also OUR decision to decide whether you are safe to be able to mix with other people again!so given most of the population have agreed to put any worries or principles to one side just for this situation.. It's going to be very hard for anyone to accept someone point blank refused to join in. However, now feels they have a right to return to society as normal Frankly.. They don't and shouldn't Works both ways.. So basically we are not fit to remain in society because we don't have the same opinion? No. You may not be able to do all things in society if you don't do your bit to mitigate your risk to others. That's not saying you don't belong in society. Your choices have consequences. So its "comply or go away" wow...judgement much.. I don't want the vaccine and won't be having it... but I don't and won't judge others if they do have it and tell them that they don't deserve to be a member of society because they chose to have the vaccine!! Thats just silly!! Wow!!! No freedom of speech! No freedom of choice! Wow just wow!! If you read it again you will see nobody said you don't deserve a place in society and I think you will find there are consequences to our choices. There is a difference between somebody not being able to do something and choosing not to and if you choose not to comply with what employer is asking you regardless of what they are asking they are not going to want to there. If a country says you cannot come in if you have chosen not to have the vaccine then of course you have a choice and that is have the vaccine or don't go. And if I'm already in the country? Where do I go?? Do I get kicked out of the country because I should be allowed to "mix" with society over a difference in opinion? I have been and employer and would ASK my staff to do something,I would NOT FORCE them to do it or get sacked? Thats just not right (in my personal opinion) but I wouldn't sack them if they decided to get the vaccine against my judgement!!! No one is going to kick you out with the country but Greece for example have already said that you will have to provide proof a vaccine or isolate for 14 days when arriving in the country. Yes you can choose not to have the vaccine but a country can refuse to allow you in or an employer can refuse to employ you it works both ways. Yes I get that with the country and employers,but just because my opinion is different to others does not mean I should be judged and told I shouldn't be allowed to mix with society.. Its my opinion and thats all.. And I'm not anti-vaccines as all my children have had all their vaccines but I just don't want the vaccine the same way as I don't want the flu jab.. and not because of any medical reasons. Single parents get a lot of heat if they don't work for a living and get called "benefit scroungers and such" Yet when them single parents WANT to work but personally don't want the vaccine,then they can get the sack? I think its just not on. Even though I understand what everyone's saying,I'm just not judging as some are! " People always judge. It's human nature. I'm sure plenty on this thread think I'm a tyrannical sheeple. Shit happens. You can mix with society. It may be the case that some establishments choose who they allow to enter or work there. That may be on the basis of your choice. You'll have to evaluate that if it comes to it. Actions and choices have consequences, that's just life. Everything is a balance between individual choice and communal responsibility and protection. That's just life. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"and as someone who had family who lived under that rule. And fought. Nah.. not ding on. Online forums and bringing up nazis. It’s a proven mathematical formula. You’ve just lost the Argument. I’m off. Can’t debate or have a conversation with idiots. I had family who were rounded up and exterminated and fully agree. It's demeaning to the people who died in horrific ways to make such chalk/cheese comparisons. Does my head in
Ok I wasn’t originally going to say this as it will come across as defensive but...
1. If I you and anyone else was genuinely offended then I apologise. It was not my intent.
2. As someone whose maternal grandparents were jewish and had extended family 3 generations back who died at the hands of the Nazis I feel it is absolutely right to raise a warning about how extreme persecution starts from much smaller and seemingly innocuous things.
3. At no point did I make a direct comparison regardless of what subsequent posters tried to imply. The clue being in the use of the word “step”.
Most importantly though I am a big boy and happy to apologise if I did unintentionally cause offence.
Thank you. I am not personally offended but I do find the quick comparisons to the Shoah/Holocaust/treatment of Jews in the Nazi era to be highly distasteful, yes.
And I agree direct comparisons are indeed distasteful but in my case no such direct comparison was made.
My point stands that the erosion of civil liberties starts with small and seemingly innocuous things. The ultimate destination is unthinkable but should not be forgotten. And before anyone jumps on me again, nobody is saying things would ever reach the extreme end of the spectrum but there are steps along that journey and it would be interesting where people draw that line?
Vaccine mandates exist in many other countries. In the USA, vaccines are required to attend public school. In the Middle East, the same. I believe it to be similar in many other countries. Mandate doesn't mean you'll be pinned down and forcibly injected, but that choosing not to be vaccinated per national schedules will mean you/your children struggle to access certain services.
There remain exemptions in all vaccine mandate countries for those who genuinely cannot be vaccinated and it would be unlawful due to the Equality Act to refuse employment of a person medically unable to be vaccinated. The suggestion is employers will require all those eligible to be vaccinated to access employment.
My parents certainly had to get me fully vaccinated before I could attend school (Australia)."Indeed but I suspect all the vaccines were well established with a substantial body of research over a prolonged period that provided confidence to parents/citizens about their safety. In a few years from now that too should (hopefully) apply to the Covid vaccines. As per another thread, vaccine hesitancy is not the same as anti vaxxer and it just appears some people are very quick to decide what others should or shouldn’t do. As per an earlier post I made on this thread (I think) we currently have insufficient evidence about whether these vaccines reduce transmission. Currently all we know is they hugely reduce the chance of the recipient developing a serious illness but do not protect others from you. So on the basis that 98% of ppl do not develop serious conditions, why should they be forced (by stealth) to have the vaccine? If you want it have it! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This brings a whole new world of laws and infringements on peoples rights. Mandatory vaccine or lose your job, but ok to kill people by through smoking, driving cars to pollute the air. or the uk selling bombs to Saudi to blow up civilians in Yemen. A company can tell you to stop smoking or lose your job. Surely this isn't true?? They can tell you not to smoke in the workplace but surely they cannot tell you to stop smoking full stop or you lose your job? Thats just daft? Its like saying you cannot drink or eat certain foods because your work says so!! You are right. They can tell you not to smoke in working hours even on breaks but most don't. Infact iv only ever heard of one company that did this. " Please send me name of the company so I can avoid if I have to find a new job.. haha | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"and as someone who had family who lived under that rule. And fought. Nah.. not ding on. Online forums and bringing up nazis. It’s a proven mathematical formula. You’ve just lost the Argument. I’m off. Can’t debate or have a conversation with idiots. I had family who were rounded up and exterminated and fully agree. It's demeaning to the people who died in horrific ways to make such chalk/cheese comparisons. Does my head in
Ok I wasn’t originally going to say this as it will come across as defensive but...
1. If I you and anyone else was genuinely offended then I apologise. It was not my intent.
2. As someone whose maternal grandparents were jewish and had extended family 3 generations back who died at the hands of the Nazis I feel it is absolutely right to raise a warning about how extreme persecution starts from much smaller and seemingly innocuous things.
3. At no point did I make a direct comparison regardless of what subsequent posters tried to imply. The clue being in the use of the word “step”.
Most importantly though I am a big boy and happy to apologise if I did unintentionally cause offence.
Thank you. I am not personally offended but I do find the quick comparisons to the Shoah/Holocaust/treatment of Jews in the Nazi era to be highly distasteful, yes.
And I agree direct comparisons are indeed distasteful but in my case no such direct comparison was made.
My point stands that the erosion of civil liberties starts with small and seemingly innocuous things. The ultimate destination is unthinkable but should not be forgotten. And before anyone jumps on me again, nobody is saying things would ever reach the extreme end of the spectrum but there are steps along that journey and it would be interesting where people draw that line?
Vaccine mandates exist in many other countries. In the USA, vaccines are required to attend public school. In the Middle East, the same. I believe it to be similar in many other countries. Mandate doesn't mean you'll be pinned down and forcibly injected, but that choosing not to be vaccinated per national schedules will mean you/your children struggle to access certain services.
There remain exemptions in all vaccine mandate countries for those who genuinely cannot be vaccinated and it would be unlawful due to the Equality Act to refuse employment of a person medically unable to be vaccinated. The suggestion is employers will require all those eligible to be vaccinated to access employment.
My parents certainly had to get me fully vaccinated before I could attend school (Australia).
Indeed but I suspect all the vaccines were well established with a substantial body of research over a prolonged period that provided confidence to parents/citizens about their safety.
In a few years from now that too should (hopefully) apply to the Covid vaccines.
As per another thread, vaccine hesitancy is not the same as anti vaxxer and it just appears some people are very quick to decide what others should or shouldn’t do.
As per an earlier post I made on this thread (I think) we currently have insufficient evidence about whether these vaccines reduce transmission. Currently all we know is they hugely reduce the chance of the recipient developing a serious illness but do not protect others from you. So on the basis that 98% of ppl do not develop serious conditions, why should they be forced (by stealth) to have the vaccine? If you want it have it!"Literally all I said was that I grew up subject to a vaccine mandate. They exist in free countries. I'm not aware of any reputable expert who's worried about long term effects from the Covid vaccine. And even if that were so, all I'm saying is that it's possible that mandates might exist, and that people will have to choose on the basis of the social and legal situation in which they find themselves. | |||
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"Are you all wearing brown shirts in here? Everyone should have the jab or not work? So do you all think those not jabbed should walk around with a badge on to let all the perfectly jabbed people see how unclean they are by being unjabbed? Really in this day of age people are being so discriminatory against people refusing a mere jab talk about equality? Please just re-read what you have all just wrote I have never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life? Love this!! Amen!!!! Sure it should be our OWN decision if to have or not!! Okay.. But then I would strongly argue it's also OUR decision to decide whether you are safe to be able to mix with other people again!so given most of the population have agreed to put any worries or principles to one side just for this situation.. It's going to be very hard for anyone to accept someone point blank refused to join in. However, now feels they have a right to return to society as normal Frankly.. They don't and shouldn't Works both ways.. So basically we are not fit to remain in society because we don't have the same opinion? No. You may not be able to do all things in society if you don't do your bit to mitigate your risk to others. That's not saying you don't belong in society. Your choices have consequences. So its "comply or go away" wow...judgement much.. I don't want the vaccine and won't be having it... but I don't and won't judge others if they do have it and tell them that they don't deserve to be a member of society because they chose to have the vaccine!! Thats just silly!! Wow!!! No freedom of speech! No freedom of choice! Wow just wow!! If you read it again you will see nobody said you don't deserve a place in society and I think you will find there are consequences to our choices. There is a difference between somebody not being able to do something and choosing not to and if you choose not to comply with what employer is asking you regardless of what they are asking they are not going to want to there. If a country says you cannot come in if you have chosen not to have the vaccine then of course you have a choice and that is have the vaccine or don't go. And if I'm already in the country? Where do I go?? Do I get kicked out of the country because I should be allowed to "mix" with society over a difference in opinion? I have been and employer and would ASK my staff to do something,I would NOT FORCE them to do it or get sacked? Thats just not right (in my personal opinion) but I wouldn't sack them if they decided to get the vaccine against my judgement!!! No one is going to kick you out with the country but Greece for example have already said that you will have to provide proof a vaccine or isolate for 14 days when arriving in the country. Yes you can choose not to have the vaccine but a country can refuse to allow you in or an employer can refuse to employ you it works both ways. Yes I get that with the country and employers,but just because my opinion is different to others does not mean I should be judged and told I shouldn't be allowed to mix with society.. Its my opinion and thats all.. And I'm not anti-vaccines as all my children have had all their vaccines but I just don't want the vaccine the same way as I don't want the flu jab.. and not because of any medical reasons. Single parents get a lot of heat if they don't work for a living and get called "benefit scroungers and such" Yet when them single parents WANT to work but personally don't want the vaccine,then they can get the sack? I think its just not on. Even though I understand what everyone's saying,I'm just not judging as some are! People always judge. It's human nature. I'm sure plenty on this thread think I'm a tyrannical sheeple. Shit happens. You can mix with society. It may be the case that some establishments choose who they allow to enter or work there. That may be on the basis of your choice. You'll have to evaluate that if it comes to it. Actions and choices have consequences, that's just life. Everything is a balance between individual choice and communal responsibility and protection. That's just life." Oh yes I certainly get all that,and how life choice have consequences. Just people don't need to be so judgemental because somebody disagrees with them. I'm sure last year it was "be kind to everyone" Now its "don't have the vaccine,basically bugger off" haha. Thats just my opinion,have a nice night,wish you ALL well.  | |||
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"This brings a whole new world of laws and infringements on peoples rights. Mandatory vaccine or lose your job, but ok to kill people by through smoking, driving cars to pollute the air. or the uk selling bombs to Saudi to blow up civilians in Yemen. A company can tell you to stop smoking or lose your job. Surely this isn't true?? They can tell you not to smoke in the workplace but surely they cannot tell you to stop smoking full stop or you lose your job? Thats just daft? Its like saying you cannot drink or eat certain foods because your work says so!! You are right. They can tell you not to smoke in working hours even on breaks but most don't. Infact iv only ever heard of one company that did this. Please send me name of the company so I can avoid if I have to find a new job.. haha " http://www.worketiquette.co.uk/uk-smoking-rules-out-office.html You can’t smoke at home if you’re working from home lols https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.lbc.co.uk/news/uk/council-bans-staff-from-smoking-at-their-desks-at-home/ | |||
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"and as someone who had family who lived under that rule. And fought. Nah.. not ding on. Online forums and bringing up nazis. It’s a proven mathematical formula. You’ve just lost the Argument. I’m off. Can’t debate or have a conversation with idiots. I had family who were rounded up and exterminated and fully agree. It's demeaning to the people who died in horrific ways to make such chalk/cheese comparisons. Does my head in
Ok I wasn’t originally going to say this as it will come across as defensive but...
1. If I you and anyone else was genuinely offended then I apologise. It was not my intent.
2. As someone whose maternal grandparents were jewish and had extended family 3 generations back who died at the hands of the Nazis I feel it is absolutely right to raise a warning about how extreme persecution starts from much smaller and seemingly innocuous things.
3. At no point did I make a direct comparison regardless of what subsequent posters tried to imply. The clue being in the use of the word “step”.
Most importantly though I am a big boy and happy to apologise if I did unintentionally cause offence.
Thank you. I am not personally offended but I do find the quick comparisons to the Shoah/Holocaust/treatment of Jews in the Nazi era to be highly distasteful, yes.
And I agree direct comparisons are indeed distasteful but in my case no such direct comparison was made.
My point stands that the erosion of civil liberties starts with small and seemingly innocuous things. The ultimate destination is unthinkable but should not be forgotten. And before anyone jumps on me again, nobody is saying things would ever reach the extreme end of the spectrum but there are steps along that journey and it would be interesting where people draw that line?
Vaccine mandates exist in many other countries. In the USA, vaccines are required to attend public school. In the Middle East, the same. I believe it to be similar in many other countries. Mandate doesn't mean you'll be pinned down and forcibly injected, but that choosing not to be vaccinated per national schedules will mean you/your children struggle to access certain services.
There remain exemptions in all vaccine mandate countries for those who genuinely cannot be vaccinated and it would be unlawful due to the Equality Act to refuse employment of a person medically unable to be vaccinated. The suggestion is employers will require all those eligible to be vaccinated to access employment.
My parents certainly had to get me fully vaccinated before I could attend school (Australia).
Indeed but I suspect all the vaccines were well established with a substantial body of research over a prolonged period that provided confidence to parents/citizens about their safety.
In a few years from now that too should (hopefully) apply to the Covid vaccines.
As per another thread, vaccine hesitancy is not the same as anti vaxxer and it just appears some people are very quick to decide what others should or shouldn’t do.
As per an earlier post I made on this thread (I think) we currently have insufficient evidence about whether these vaccines reduce transmission. Currently all we know is they hugely reduce the chance of the recipient developing a serious illness but do not protect others from you. So on the basis that 98% of ppl do not develop serious conditions, why should they be forced (by stealth) to have the vaccine? If you want it have it!
Literally all I said was that I grew up subject to a vaccine mandate. They exist in free countries.
I'm not aware of any reputable expert who's worried about long term effects from the Covid vaccine. And even if that were so, all I'm saying is that it's possible that mandates might exist, and that people will have to choose on the basis of the social and legal situation in which they find themselves."Assuming M gets back to his old job he'll most likely have to get the Covid vaccine, no choice in the matter. However, he doesn't mind, doesn't see it as an infringement of his rights or a loss of freedoms. (What freedoms?) He's just happy to get it, happy to have the level of protection it affords him and those around him, at work and socially. As well as having a job. For him, it's a no brainer. E | |||
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"It is a choice quite simple. If it is your right to refuse a jab. It is also the right of someone not to employ you. If you can't get a job, you can claim a benefit. It is my right not to want to financially support you, and bitch about you." This. | |||
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"This brings a whole new world of laws and infringements on peoples rights. Mandatory vaccine or lose your job, but ok to kill people by through smoking, driving cars to pollute the air. or the uk selling bombs to Saudi to blow up civilians in Yemen. A company can tell you to stop smoking or lose your job. Surely this isn't true?? They can tell you not to smoke in the workplace but surely they cannot tell you to stop smoking full stop or you lose your job? Thats just daft? Its like saying you cannot drink or eat certain foods because your work says so!! " If you are a train driver or a pilot, you must not drink alcohol or take drugs (even certain legal medicines) for (depending upon exact role) anything from 24 hours up to a full week before your shift starts. Which means that in many cases you actually can never drink, or you will lose your job. I'm sure that there must be many other occupations where similar apply. Athletes for example can get banned for life just for drinking cough medicine... | |||
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"This brings a whole new world of laws and infringements on peoples rights. Mandatory vaccine or lose your job, but ok to kill people by through smoking, driving cars to pollute the air. or the uk selling bombs to Saudi to blow up civilians in Yemen. A company can tell you to stop smoking or lose your job. Surely this isn't true?? They can tell you not to smoke in the workplace but surely they cannot tell you to stop smoking full stop or you lose your job? Thats just daft? Its like saying you cannot drink or eat certain foods because your work says so!! If you are a train driver or a pilot, you must not drink alcohol or take drugs (even certain legal medicines) for (depending upon exact role) anything from 24 hours up to a full week before your shift starts. Which means that in many cases you actually can never drink, or you will lose your job. I'm sure that there must be many other occupations where similar apply. Athletes for example can get banned for life just for drinking cough medicine..." Yup. Mr KC once almost got in hot water for taking a co-codamol because his offshore employer sent him for a medical and the opiate test came up positive...... No alcohol, drugs (including the herbal stuff), certain legit meds either to be declared/signed off or banned. Standard offshore. | |||
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"This brings a whole new world of laws and infringements on peoples rights. Mandatory vaccine or lose your job, but ok to kill people by through smoking, driving cars to pollute the air. or the uk selling bombs to Saudi to blow up civilians in Yemen. A company can tell you to stop smoking or lose your job. Surely this isn't true?? They can tell you not to smoke in the workplace but surely they cannot tell you to stop smoking full stop or you lose your job? Thats just daft? Its like saying you cannot drink or eat certain foods because your work says so!! If you are a train driver or a pilot, you must not drink alcohol or take drugs (even certain legal medicines) for (depending upon exact role) anything from 24 hours up to a full week before your shift starts. Which means that in many cases you actually can never drink, or you will lose your job. I'm sure that there must be many other occupations where similar apply. Athletes for example can get banned for life just for drinking cough medicine... Yup. Mr KC once almost got in hot water for taking a co-codamol because his offshore employer sent him for a medical and the opiate test came up positive...... No alcohol, drugs (including the herbal stuff), certain legit meds either to be declared/signed off or banned. Standard offshore." Yes they they are mind or body altering substances and make sense with the examples you and pollute have given. Having a fag in your lunch break isn't the same thing. | |||
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"Vanessa Feltz discussing this on radio 2 today " Can’t stand listening to her. She irritates me. | |||
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"This brings a whole new world of laws and infringements on peoples rights. Mandatory vaccine or lose your job, but ok to kill people by through smoking, driving cars to pollute the air. or the uk selling bombs to Saudi to blow up civilians in Yemen. A company can tell you to stop smoking or lose your job. Surely this isn't true?? They can tell you not to smoke in the workplace but surely they cannot tell you to stop smoking full stop or you lose your job? Thats just daft? Its like saying you cannot drink or eat certain foods because your work says so!! If you are a train driver or a pilot, you must not drink alcohol or take drugs (even certain legal medicines) for (depending upon exact role) anything from 24 hours up to a full week before your shift starts. Which means that in many cases you actually can never drink, or you will lose your job. I'm sure that there must be many other occupations where similar apply. Athletes for example can get banned for life just for drinking cough medicine... Yup. Mr KC once almost got in hot water for taking a co-codamol because his offshore employer sent him for a medical and the opiate test came up positive...... No alcohol, drugs (including the herbal stuff), certain legit meds either to be declared/signed off or banned. Standard offshore. Yes they they are mind or body altering substances and make sense with the examples you and pollute have given. Having a fag in your lunch break isn't the same thing. " My point wasn't to equate it to smoking, but to highlight employers can (and do) make rules about what you do whilst at home. Mr KC took one co-codamol on his rest week but that was enough to almost cause a huge problem. He wasn't due offshore for a couple of weeks after the medical... Basically - you couldn't use opiate medication at all whilst at home for fear of it lingering... | |||
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"This brings a whole new world of laws and infringements on peoples rights. Mandatory vaccine or lose your job, but ok to kill people by through smoking, driving cars to pollute the air. or the uk selling bombs to Saudi to blow up civilians in Yemen. A company can tell you to stop smoking or lose your job. Surely this isn't true?? They can tell you not to smoke in the workplace but surely they cannot tell you to stop smoking full stop or you lose your job? Thats just daft? Its like saying you cannot drink or eat certain foods because your work says so!! If you are a train driver or a pilot, you must not drink alcohol or take drugs (even certain legal medicines) for (depending upon exact role) anything from 24 hours up to a full week before your shift starts. Which means that in many cases you actually can never drink, or you will lose your job. I'm sure that there must be many other occupations where similar apply. Athletes for example can get banned for life just for drinking cough medicine... Yup. Mr KC once almost got in hot water for taking a co-codamol because his offshore employer sent him for a medical and the opiate test came up positive...... No alcohol, drugs (including the herbal stuff), certain legit meds either to be declared/signed off or banned. Standard offshore. Yes they they are mind or body altering substances and make sense with the examples you and pollute have given. Having a fag in your lunch break isn't the same thing. My point wasn't to equate it to smoking, but to highlight employers can (and do) make rules about what you do whilst at home. Mr KC took one co-codamol on his rest week but that was enough to almost cause a huge problem. He wasn't due offshore for a couple of weeks after the medical... Basically - you couldn't use opiate medication at all whilst at home for fear of it lingering..." I completely agree. I have worked in places where I would only have been offered the job if I had the hep C vaccines or was willing to have it. There is a fine balance between telling an employee what they can do in their private time but also there are certain things that we have to do or have if we want to work in certain places. I don't understand why people are saying you shouldn't be allowed to say somebody can't work you if they won't have a vaccine that could potentially protect others, Nobody has a problem with DBS checks being mandatory for many workplaces to protect others. If you don't want a DBS check or wouldn't pass one then you just don't work there and you work somewhere else so it would be the same with the vaccine surely. | |||
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"It is a choice quite simple. If it is your right to refuse a jab. It is also the right of someone not to employ you. If you can't get a job, you can claim a benefit. It is my right not to want to financially support you, and bitch about you." Logical | |||
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"This brings a whole new world of laws and infringements on peoples rights. Mandatory vaccine or lose your job, but ok to kill people by through smoking, driving cars to pollute the air. or the uk selling bombs to Saudi to blow up civilians in Yemen. A company can tell you to stop smoking or lose your job. Surely this isn't true?? They can tell you not to smoke in the workplace but surely they cannot tell you to stop smoking full stop or you lose your job? Thats just daft? Its like saying you cannot drink or eat certain foods because your work says so!! If you are a train driver or a pilot, you must not drink alcohol or take drugs (even certain legal medicines) for (depending upon exact role) anything from 24 hours up to a full week before your shift starts. Which means that in many cases you actually can never drink, or you will lose your job. I'm sure that there must be many other occupations where similar apply. Athletes for example can get banned for life just for drinking cough medicine... Yup. Mr KC once almost got in hot water for taking a co-codamol because his offshore employer sent him for a medical and the opiate test came up positive...... No alcohol, drugs (including the herbal stuff), certain legit meds either to be declared/signed off or banned. Standard offshore. Yes they they are mind or body altering substances and make sense with the examples you and pollute have given. Having a fag in your lunch break isn't the same thing. My point wasn't to equate it to smoking, but to highlight employers can (and do) make rules about what you do whilst at home. Mr KC took one co-codamol on his rest week but that was enough to almost cause a huge problem. He wasn't due offshore for a couple of weeks after the medical... Basically - you couldn't use opiate medication at all whilst at home for fear of it lingering..." Company I used to work for , due to insurance . Started random drug / alcohol tests. If you did not agree then job lost. If selected when testers arrived. You were given a list of substances etc. Asked if taken any. Plus any medication taken in past days. There were several at factory I worked tested positive over period of a couple of years and after extra test , lost jobs. With alcohol , you could drive to work. Stopped by police and pass test. Yet if positive test at work same day . Sacked. Also if declared that taking drug . Tested positive. Had to see company doctor / get own doctor to produce letter that you were prescribed said drug. Company paid for letter etc. But were under suspension until letter etc proved in own favour. | |||
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"It will be loads of red tape human rights discrimination equal opportunity and so on are they going to change the law too or would it come under health and safety " The law doesn't stop employers requiring people to have certain vaccines. Nor does it stop people from being refused a job if they had certain disabilities as long as the employer can prove its reasonable. For example someone with epilepsy can't drive a train. Just has to be reasonable and relevant to the job and some professions could definitely argue this with the Covid vaccination. A company would struggle if somebody was working from home for example and they refused to offer them a job because they haven't had the vaccine in the same way somebody with epilepsy it would not be whose reasonable for them to be refused a job as a secretary ect.. | |||
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"This brings a whole new world of laws and infringements on peoples rights. Mandatory vaccine or lose your job, but ok to kill people by through smoking, driving cars to pollute the air. or the uk selling bombs to Saudi to blow up civilians in Yemen. A company can tell you to stop smoking or lose your job. Surely this isn't true?? They can tell you not to smoke in the workplace but surely they cannot tell you to stop smoking full stop or you lose your job? Thats just daft? Its like saying you cannot drink or eat certain foods because your work says so!! If you are a train driver or a pilot, you must not drink alcohol or take drugs (even certain legal medicines) for (depending upon exact role) anything from 24 hours up to a full week before your shift starts. Which means that in many cases you actually can never drink, or you will lose your job. I'm sure that there must be many other occupations where similar apply. Athletes for example can get banned for life just for drinking cough medicine..." M takes heavy duty prescription pain killers, he has significant back problems. He has declared them and carries a doctor's letter confirming what he takes and why. If he is selected for random D and A testing and he's taking his meds he, and his employer know what to expect. If he takes anything that's not prescribed, or alcohol whilst at work his contract will be terminated. No questions, no excuses, no appeal. It makes me chuckle when people say employers cannot do this. Thousands of people all over the UK already have contracts exactly like this with zero problem. E | |||
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"It will be loads of red tape human rights discrimination equal opportunity and so on are they going to change the law too or would it come under health and safety " Incorrect. The legislation already exists. E | |||
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"It will be loads of red tape human rights discrimination equal opportunity and so on are they going to change the law too or would it come under health and safety " My understanding of the ECHR position is that vaccine mandates are broadly permissible, but the UK doesn't do that. It might change. We don't know yet. Vaccine mandates are already permissible in some roles. | |||
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"This brings a whole new world of laws and infringements on peoples rights. Mandatory vaccine or lose your job, but ok to kill people by through smoking, driving cars to pollute the air. or the uk selling bombs to Saudi to blow up civilians in Yemen. A company can tell you to stop smoking or lose your job. Surely this isn't true?? They can tell you not to smoke in the workplace but surely they cannot tell you to stop smoking full stop or you lose your job? Thats just daft? Its like saying you cannot drink or eat certain foods because your work says so!! If you are a train driver or a pilot, you must not drink alcohol or take drugs (even certain legal medicines) for (depending upon exact role) anything from 24 hours up to a full week before your shift starts. Which means that in many cases you actually can never drink, or you will lose your job. I'm sure that there must be many other occupations where similar apply. Athletes for example can get banned for life just for drinking cough medicine... Yup. Mr KC once almost got in hot water for taking a co-codamol because his offshore employer sent him for a medical and the opiate test came up positive...... No alcohol, drugs (including the herbal stuff), certain legit meds either to be declared/signed off or banned. Standard offshore. Yes they they are mind or body altering substances and make sense with the examples you and pollute have given. Having a fag in your lunch break isn't the same thing. My point wasn't to equate it to smoking, but to highlight employers can (and do) make rules about what you do whilst at home. Mr KC took one co-codamol on his rest week but that was enough to almost cause a huge problem. He wasn't due offshore for a couple of weeks after the medical... Basically - you couldn't use opiate medication at all whilst at home for fear of it lingering... I completely agree. I have worked in places where I would only have been offered the job if I had the hep C vaccines or was willing to have it. There is a fine balance between telling an employee what they can do in their private time but also there are certain things that we have to do or have if we want to work in certain places. I don't understand why people are saying you shouldn't be allowed to say somebody can't work you if they won't have a vaccine that could potentially protect others, Nobody has a problem with DBS checks being mandatory for many workplaces to protect others. If you don't want a DBS check or wouldn't pass one then you just don't work there and you work somewhere else so it would be the same with the vaccine surely." Far to much common sense Laura. KJ | |||
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"And in my opinion it is taking away our freedom of choice!! What next? And why is your choice not to? Because I don’t want to is not a valid answer. That’s like a kid not being bought a kinder egg in tesco and having a body’s fit on the floor. I mean.. you had the magma carta and the civil war and dozens of wars for that choice. To give you that freedom. Because I’m clinically high risk. Shielding until end of March, then someone like you might get me sick? So.. one good reason.. And if it’s medical.. fine, we stop this now.. but you’re arguing the wrong point if so. " I'm arguing the point of it is MY CHOICE not to have the vaccine!! I am not alienating you because you NEED to shield... I could have any amount of disease (which i didn't know about) and make the person stood next to me without my knowledge sick.. That doesn't mean to say that I SHOULD get the vaccine because I "MIGHT" make somebody sick!! If I got covid I still would NOT have the vaccine and that is MY CHOICE and only MY CHOICE | |||
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"And in my opinion it is taking away our freedom of choice!! What next? And why is your choice not to? Because I don’t want to is not a valid answer. That’s like a kid not being bought a kinder egg in tesco and having a body’s fit on the floor. I mean.. you had the magma carta and the civil war and dozens of wars for that choice. To give you that freedom. Because I’m clinically high risk. Shielding until end of March, then someone like you might get me sick? So.. one good reason.. And if it’s medical.. fine, we stop this now.. but you’re arguing the wrong point if so. I'm arguing the point of it is MY CHOICE not to have the vaccine!! I am not alienating you because you NEED to shield... I could have any amount of disease (which i didn't know about) and make the person stood next to me without my knowledge sick.. That doesn't mean to say that I SHOULD get the vaccine because I "MIGHT" make somebody sick!! If I got covid I still would NOT have the vaccine and that is MY CHOICE and only MY CHOICE " | |||
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"Personally, I think that Covid will soon become irrelevant after the bulk of the population has been vaccinated. When the infection rate (and consequent death rate) are too low to bother reporting then things will return to a pre-covid normal. Most sensible thing I've read Cal" | |||
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"And in my opinion it is taking away our freedom of choice!! What next? And why is your choice not to? Because I don’t want to is not a valid answer. That’s like a kid not being bought a kinder egg in tesco and having a body’s fit on the floor. I mean.. you had the magma carta and the civil war and dozens of wars for that choice. To give you that freedom. Because I’m clinically high risk. Shielding until end of March, then someone like you might get me sick? So.. one good reason.. And if it’s medical.. fine, we stop this now.. but you’re arguing the wrong point if so. I'm arguing the point of it is MY CHOICE not to have the vaccine!! I am not alienating you because you NEED to shield... I could have any amount of disease (which i didn't know about) and make the person stood next to me without my knowledge sick.. That doesn't mean to say that I SHOULD get the vaccine because I "MIGHT" make somebody sick!! If I got covid I still would NOT have the vaccine and that is MY CHOICE and only MY CHOICE " Yes and its my choice to choose if I employ you. Its my choice to not think you are being responsible. You do have a choice but so do those who do choose to be vaccinated to not like or agree with your choice! | |||
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"And in my opinion it is taking away our freedom of choice!! What next? And why is your choice not to? Because I don’t want to is not a valid answer. That’s like a kid not being bought a kinder egg in tesco and having a body’s fit on the floor. I mean.. you had the magma carta and the civil war and dozens of wars for that choice. To give you that freedom. Because I’m clinically high risk. Shielding until end of March, then someone like you might get me sick? So.. one good reason.. And if it’s medical.. fine, we stop this now.. but you’re arguing the wrong point if so. I'm arguing the point of it is MY CHOICE not to have the vaccine!! I am not alienating you because you NEED to shield... I could have any amount of disease (which i didn't know about) and make the person stood next to me without my knowledge sick.. That doesn't mean to say that I SHOULD get the vaccine because I "MIGHT" make somebody sick!! If I got covid I still would NOT have the vaccine and that is MY CHOICE and only MY CHOICE " And this thread is not about your right to choose. It is about whether employers can require vaccines. You can choose, so can they. | |||
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"And in my opinion it is taking away our freedom of choice!! What next? And why is your choice not to? Because I don’t want to is not a valid answer. That’s like a kid not being bought a kinder egg in tesco and having a body’s fit on the floor. I mean.. you had the magma carta and the civil war and dozens of wars for that choice. To give you that freedom. Because I’m clinically high risk. Shielding until end of March, then someone like you might get me sick? So.. one good reason.. And if it’s medical.. fine, we stop this now.. but you’re arguing the wrong point if so. I'm arguing the point of it is MY CHOICE not to have the vaccine!! I am not alienating you because you NEED to shield... I could have any amount of disease (which i didn't know about) and make the person stood next to me without my knowledge sick.. That doesn't mean to say that I SHOULD get the vaccine because I "MIGHT" make somebody sick!! If I got covid I still would NOT have the vaccine and that is MY CHOICE and only MY CHOICE And this thread is not about your right to choose. It is about whether employers can require vaccines. You can choose, so can they. " Exactly that and it's alright banging on about your choice not to have a vaccine but at the same time saying but somebody shouldn't have a choice to employ me because of my choice | |||
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"And in my opinion it is taking away our freedom of choice!! What next? And why is your choice not to? Because I don’t want to is not a valid answer. That’s like a kid not being bought a kinder egg in tesco and having a body’s fit on the floor. I mean.. you had the magma carta and the civil war and dozens of wars for that choice. To give you that freedom. Because I’m clinically high risk. Shielding until end of March, then someone like you might get me sick? So.. one good reason.. And if it’s medical.. fine, we stop this now.. but you’re arguing the wrong point if so. I'm arguing the point of it is MY CHOICE not to have the vaccine!! I am not alienating you because you NEED to shield... I could have any amount of disease (which i didn't know about) and make the person stood next to me without my knowledge sick.. That doesn't mean to say that I SHOULD get the vaccine because I "MIGHT" make somebody sick!! If I got covid I still would NOT have the vaccine and that is MY CHOICE and only MY CHOICE " Absolutely it is your choice, however it may become a necessity to have the vaccine to have a job. Employers may insist upon it and before anyone says it would be discriminatory it wont, not having a vaccine is not a 'protected characteristic' which are, age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage and civil partnership, race, religion or belief, sex, pregnancy and maternity, and sexual orientation. Therefore an employer may choose to appoint only people who have been vaccinated (unless protected reasons as to why not) and could vary the contract of existing employees, ultimately dismissing and re-hiring if refused. They cant force you to have the vaccine it is your choice, but they can refuse to employ you or dismiss if you dont. NOt much of a choice really if employers go down that route. And when it comes to booking that holiday in the Sun, its highly likley you will only get in the country if you have a vaccination certificate. So yeah ... its your choice ... but that choice could mean no job and no trips abroad. | |||
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